Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 181: Cariad Lloyd

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

Cariad Lloyd – improviser extraordinaire, Greifcast host and author of ‘You Are Not Alone’ – gets very specific in the Dream Restaurant this week. Trigger warning: this episode contains talk about grief and death.Cariad’s book ‘You Are Not Along’ is out now, published by Bloomsbury. Buy it here. Listen to Cariad’s podcast ‘Griefcast’ wherever you listen to podcasts. Follow Cariad on Twitter @ladycariad and Instagram @cariadlloyd Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy now. Please? Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking the pizza base of the Internet, pouring on the tomato sauce of good times, adding the mozzarella of humour and sprinkling on liberally the pepperoni of friendship. That's what I call a pizza, baby. That is Ed Gamble. My name is James Steadcaster. We own a dream restaurant, and we invite a guest in every week and ask him his favourite ever, start a main course dessert, side dish, and drink. And this week, our guest is...

Kariad Lloyd. Kariad Lloyd, a wonderful comedian, writer, podcaster, improviser, extraordinaire. Absolutely fantastic. We love Kariad Lloyd for a long time. We've wanted to get on this podcast. We're excited that we've got her on this week. She's got a new book out as well. You Are Not Alone. You Are Not Alone. If you're familiar with Kariad's work with the grief cast, so it talks a lot about grief, and there's a lot of stories in there, a lot of maybe helpful tips.

Yes, I think so. She speaks very openly about that sort of stuff. Yes. So I can't even say what she talks about. That's how repressed I am. Yeah, yeah. Ed's not going to die though. Yes, fans of the podcast will know that James thinks I'm not going to die. Yes, I do know that. Right. Well, maybe that'll come up with Kariad. Maybe you can explain that to Kariad, and she'll bring you back down to earth gently.

Gladly, and I'll bring her back down to earth gently. Do go and buy Kariad's new book, You Are Not Alone. It's fantastic. You will love it. Out now. But if Kariad has a secret ingredient that we have decided upon in advance, we will kick her out the restaurant, and she will be grieving her experience. Oh, very good. Bless you. And this week, the secret ingredient is Andouillette.

Andouillette, of course, came up in the Stanley Tucci episode of the podcast, a big ol' stinky French innards sausage. Loads of intestines. On the outside, it might look like a sausage, but inside, it's loads of folded up intestines. Apparently, it smells revolting. It is inedible, is what Tucci said. Yeah, the Tucci ate it with the streep and said it was absolutely disgusting. Oh, I should get the streepster on one day. We'd love to get the streepster on. Ask her about her experience with the stinky poo sausage.

Yeah. I mean, unlike they all come up on anyone's menu ever, but just after that story from the Tucci, I would say that we would be remiss of us. It would be remiss of us. As a secret ingredient. So hopefully it doesn't come up, but this is the off-menu menu of Kariad Lloyd. Welcome, Kariad, to the Dream Restaurant. It's so beautiful. Welcome, Kariad Lloyd, to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time.

It's still quite scary, even though I expected it. Yeah, that's my whole life, I think. That was a big explosion there for Kariad. Yeah, I knew Kariad was expecting it, so I have to up the ante. Yeah. Bit of glitter. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thank you.

Oh, you deserve it. You deserve a bit more glitter, right? I think so, yeah. There's not enough glitter with most genies, I'd say. What? They're full of glitter? That's their thing. Is it? Yeah, genies always glittering. I would just imagine smoke. I wouldn't imagine glitter coming out of there. Oh, you don't have...

Yeah, if you have small children and you're involved in that kind of magical cartoon world, there's a lot of sparkly glitter genies. You're on the genie scene. Yeah, yeah, I'm on the genie scene. Yeah, it's widely discussed in the genie community, is how much smoke versus glitter they talk about. It's controversial, of course, the carbon footprint of the smoke had to be dealt with, but the glitter equally if you're not using sustainable glitter.

Yeah, yeah. Some genies use sustainable glitter. Some genies don't. Yeah, and it is... I'm a sustainable guy. Yeah. And a lot of it has been appropriated from the drag scene. So it's about time genies gave their due to where they got it from. Genies appropriate from drag or did drag appropriate from genies?

Because... This is chicken and egg, this. Yeah. Yeah, well, genies are around since Aladdin times. Ancient Aladdin times, just before Mesopotamia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know, when did drag start? Well, drag's always been there.

Yeah. So there you go. So really, we took it from the drag scene. Okay, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Well, Joe, what may I be the first genie to say that I acknowledge that? And I personally will try and do better. Thank you, genie.

Thank you. You need to say that to the drag community, I think. Yes, that's to the drag community. We had Bimini Bombou lash on once. I should have said it then. Yeah, you should have done. Yeah. That's what I should have said it.

Bimini, if you're listening, I'm sorry. You said the dream restaurant was beautiful. It is beautiful. Before the genie appeared. What are you seeing in the dream restaurant? It's just light, it's airy, lots of lovely fresh air. It's unusual for a podcast restaurant to be so light and airy and friendly and welcoming and not damp.

There's normally a patch of damp in the podcast restaurant dream situation. Is there? Yeah. What's the dampest podcast restaurant dream situation you've been in? I think where I originally started recording grief cast, which was above a pub, where someone had thought, yeah, yeah, there's a room.

We could do this. And they just like stapled random bits of foam. Like not even like, oh, you know, this is soundproof foam. Just random. And yeah, I was interviewing Buckles and Buckson. And he was like, this is just like horrible, six-form craft coffin that we are sitting in. Perfect.

Yeah. Yeah. And you could hear the police sirens as well, even with the crap phone. Yeah, that phone's doing nothing. It did absolutely nothing, but sometimes you could touch it. And that felt quite nice, you know, just to be like, yeah. With a sponge.

Damp sponge. Damp sponge. Lovely. How long have you been in grief cast for now as well? It's a long time. Yeah, a long time in the podcast game since 2016. So it's nearly six years old. Yeah, about to be six years old, actually, nearly its birthday.

Wow. Yeah. And have you ever thought about, you know, incorporating a genie into that? Do you know what? I am, some of the guests might like that if the genie was also using his medium skills. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like if you remember the dead back to talk, that would be good. I get a lot of mediums getting in touch, wanting to come on the show. And I'm like. Have you ever gone out? We're not really the vibe, but not really the vibe, guys.

No, I, well, without getting like too grief serious, like obviously, you know, grieving people are quite vulnerable. And if mediums work for you, that's fine. Although I do believe some of them prey on vulnerable people and offer them hope that doesn't exist. So I'm a bit wary of getting it. I'm going to get shit from the medium community now. Well, I mean, I'm not sure how many mediums listen to this.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we've never had them contact. We've ever had a medium contact the podcast. And they don't tend to contact the living. No. So maybe they'll get in contact when we die. They'll get in contact to go, love the podcast man. With your podcast, it's whenever people say to me,

I want to start a podcast. What should it be about? I say, you've got to go with something that you can keep talking about that's never going to stop. Grief or food. We've both done well. Yeah, I think so. And I don't know about you.

Mine wasn't conscious. I wasn't like, oh, this will last for six years. I was just like, oh, I could definitely talk about that forever because that's my like, especially subject. And then when it did become a job, I was like, oh, that's lucky that I chose this and not like episodes of Red Dwarf that I like. That would have run out pretty quick season five. So yeah, it was unintentional.

Good luck. Question I've always wanted to ask is, so, you know, with our pod, if we think, oh, that person would be a good guest. We contact them. We ask them to come on. I think what people always think about Griefcast is, at what point does Carrie decide enough time has passed that she can contact them and ask, will you come on my podcast?

Yes. Once the Chortle article is out. Hi, you're distant. How are you? So sorry to hear about. So I was like, would you like to? It's such a difficult show to book. Like I think every other podcast, like, you know, like obviously agents are involved

or people like you like or you think, oh, they'd be fun. With Griefcast, it's like, oh, I like that person. Oh, they're really eloquent, like speaking about things. Do they have a story that they want to share? So either that's yes or no. Sometimes people are like, no, just one of those people don't know anyone who's really died. And I think, fuck you, fuck you.

But great for you. Congratulations. And then if they do have a story, then they might not want to talk about it. So then I get a lot of tweets, people like, oh, you should talk to at so and so. And I'm like, they might not. Don't at them. Yeah, don't at them. Don't at them.

Because like they might not want to think about it today or they might not want to share their story. So, yeah, it's quite difficult. Often people approach me to be honest. That's what happens. People approach me and say, this has happened. I'd like to talk about it. Yeah, I think you asked me maybe to do a live one or something a while ago.

Yeah, the live one's different. And I sort of, you know, I don't have that much to talk about in terms of that. Fuck you. But I felt like it's good. That's a good tactic. You got in early with a request. Yeah. So now you're just holding out waiting for a big one to happen.

Yeah. And then you've been like, I asked you before. I asked you before. So it's not like I've just been waiting for that. Yeah, that has happened. Yeah. I asked, so Greek Cross Live is me and three comedians. And it's not talking about like a person.

It's just like we plan a few, their funerals. So it's very silly, but we're just talking about death in a light way. And yeah, I asked someone to do Greek Cross Live. And then a couple of years later, they were like, so I can now come and talk to you. About someone. And I was like, oh, sorry. But also, great. When can you do April?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's really difficult. I don't want to be an ambulance chaser as well. So, you know, I don't think anyone thinks you are. No, you do. It's like, it's difficult. And sometimes people don't want to talk about it,

which you have to be respectful of, because obviously it's very much a show. Like I'm, people have cancelled on me like an hour before because I've just gone, I walked to the studio and I'm in tears and I can't do it. And I've had to go. That's absolutely fine. Don't worry about it. Like you can, it's just like, it's amazing.

Episode happens. I'm always like, well, you chose to come and talk about something so personal and so difficult. Thank you. Like, that's, that's not. Do you have a rivalry with Josh and Rob? Because they do the opposite of your podcast. Yeah. Good point.

I do get jealous of the comedy ones. I get jealous. Like you go, like you can just, it's just, you know, that's going to be. I know. Sometimes people cancel an hour before. They're like, I'm too full. I walk to the studio. I'm farting so much.

Oh, God. Oh, I feel sick. I can't talk about it. Yeah. Parenting hell is very, but they cover grief. Actually, this was interesting since I've started doing grief cast. Oh, everybody wants to talk about grief. Yeah.

Which is good. It's a good thing. But it's funny that I then hear another podcast being talked about. Like just freely. And I'm like, wow, that wouldn't have happened. It was like such a thing of like, oh, you don't, you don't talk about it. There has to be a special room for it.

So it's quite nice now. Although obviously I get jealous when they talk about it. I think, why didn't you talk to me? You're grieving the loss of your original form. Yes, exactly. Every time we see a podcast that is dream something. We're like, oh, hello. Hello there.

As if we're claiming the format of having a conversation. And dreams. Yeah. I am. Well, I do, I do a lot of improv and I do show called ostentatious. And there are the same thing happens when we're not bothered, but sometimes other improv formats come out and people aren't annoyed. And like, we didn't have been making stuff up.

Yeah. In which case ban all children in every playground in the country for pretending. Like we didn't invent that. So you go make things up. The Tories probably will try and bloody ban that. They probably will. They probably will try and ban that at some point.

Children having imaginations and dreams. They already have. Yeah, they already did it. Yeah, Fatty already did that. Yeah, milk. Milk. Yeah, she's dead. Are you a fan of food?

I am a fan of food. Certain foods, I am a fan of food. Not a foodie. My husband is a massive foodie. Oh yeah. So I'm like a bad student who's had to like learn. I grew up in like Fingers Crispy Pancakes. He grew up in a world of like homegrown organic food.

So he has like helped me understand what I was eating was shit. But have you also had a chance to introduce him to the wonderful world of Fingers Crispy Pancakes? No, he won't accept that world. Because there's always to be said for high low though, right? You've got to enjoy, you can enjoy a broad spectrum of things. If you've been brought up in the way that he was brought up with like proper homegrown healthy cooking, you have no nostalgia for the plastic.

I guess so. So I still get nostalgia for like that plastic cheese occasionally or like barbecue sauce on things that's just like meat mixed with barbecue. That kind of like, it's not right, but oh yeah, yeah. And he bought this like pulled pork the other day, which had like homemade but because he was like, I know you're like this. So it's a no cheese. I know you're like this.

Yeah. Discussing. And he was right. And I was like, but he will cook like amazing things. But the thing I've gone on about most is like, oh that pulled pork. That sauce is so good. But I am not a foodie. I am and this might become obvious.

I am a sugar addict, a major, major sugar addict. So like food, fine, sugar, essential. James just breathes a sigh of relief. Yeah, I know. The whole episode and we'll be happy as Larry. Yeah, you are. So I introduced sugar. He wasn't really a sugar fiend until, yeah, we got to get now.

Did you get him addicted? Yeah, I've got him completely addicted, completely. To the point where now he's like, why isn't there any chocolate? What, what do you mean? And I'm like, well, I was just trying to have a day where we didn't eat another bar of Tony's. Why would you do that? Why would you have a day where we haven't?

Yeah. Would you put it? Would you hide it? Yes, I've made that quite bad, which is annoying. Because now I have to share the pudding. I didn't used to have to do that. Yeah. I didn't think that fruit.

No, I didn't. Early days. Yeah, yeah. Focused on bonding and stuff. Yeah, I should have just said it's not what, don't eat it. It's not very nice. Yeah. It's my duty to my kids.

I go, it's very dark chocolate. You won't like it. Ingebar, Derell. It's spicy. It's very spicy. And sugar. It just looks like chocolate cake. No, very spicy.

It's got chilies in it. It's grown up. It's for grown-ups, really. It's for grown-up. Yeah. So I think still my dad's greatest achievement of his life was just hiding that he was a sugar addict during our childhood when we were all absolutely fell for it.

I wanted to ask him and he was like that. I didn't very much like, you should be able to control yourselves and only have it every now and again. Well, and then he was just like, as soon as our backs were turned, he was his head in the freezer, just snaffling a whole tub of ice cream. That's what I do. That's what I do.

Yeah. I had a bag of like Christmas Tony bites, you know, like they do the mini. Love them. And I'd given her one. My daughter won as a like, just to deal with a very bad mood. And then she was like, well, can I have another one? I was like, no, no, you've already had one.

And this is when she wasn't looking. I had snaffled four into my mouth with back turned. Different flavors, hazelnut milk and the white one. And maybe I had another milk one. And I was like, you can't one a day. Come on. Come on. You've had a lot today. And then she was like, okay.

And I was like, all the more for me. I think I've mentioned this in the podcast before, but I distinctly remember when I was a little kid, I got given some chocolates by someone. And my mum ate all of them one night. And then so a couple of days later, I was like, I'd love some more chocolate. And then my mum was like, they're right.

They're right. They left. Very sorry. And the next day she'd brought, she brought me to replace it. Brought me a chocolate monkey. Like a hollow chocolate monkey. And I went down the next day and she'd eaten the whole body. Oh dear.

Good on her. It was just the head. It was just the head in the box. It was like seven. Yeah, but parenting is awful. So she deserved that more than you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough. 100% that was fair.

Didn't feel like that at the time. No, no, it was not, it was not. Well, I guess parenting is awful. It's hard to feel like you're still yourself. Why not just buy two monkeys? I want to share the monkey with you if you don't. She intended it to be for you, but then life made her make another choice.

Yeah, but there's something sad about a fully grown woman eating a chocolate monkey's body by herself. That's not sad. That's motherhood. That is just every mother listening will be like, yes, that's what happens after a day of awful children. You think, you know, I'm going to fucking eat your chocolate monkey. She would have eaten like a, she's gone, I just have the foot. Yeah, exactly.

That's how it would have started. He won't even notice if I just have the foot. Progressively, each part of the monkey. Yeah. Before she gets to the heading on, I can't eat the head. Yeah, I eat the party sweets that come back. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And then she'll go, once she was like, I never, yeah, there's lollies we get at parties. I never eat them. They're always gone. I was like, uh-huh. Yeah, they disappear. They disappear. Actually, I chucked the lollies because they're gross.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, not that. What kind of lollies are they? Oh, they're like the chubba-chub or that like chalky one. Hate the chalky one. Hate the chalky one. Fuck is the chalky one. I'm going to have to spell on this.

Yeah, yeah. Especially when it comes to chalky lollies. Is that the sort of thing that's still, still coming back in party bags? Is it still the same as when we were kids? Yeah, you get like- Swizzle Matthews or whatever it's called. What the swizzle dip?

Yeah, like all of that stuff. No, not that, but they do chuck a lollie in. Yeah, because I- That's too much sugar for a child. I did a gig in Guilford once. Comedy Club for Kids in Guilford. And there was a birthday party in Comedy Club for Kids. They all had party bags.

And I was like, give me that. I want to have a look. It was Hotel Chocolat. Were you in Guilford? Yeah. And they did a party at Comedy Club for Kids. Hotel Chocolat and a bath bomb. Yeah, that's Guilford.

And went on a big rant about- I went on a big rant, which you shouldn't do at Comedy Club for Kids. Going, what are you relaxing from? Why do you need to get home after a long day of being a kid and have a bath bomb? Get off! You're a poop-o-head. If we may return to grief for a second.

Please always do with me. Let's talk about You Are Not Alone. Yes. Your book. My book. A new way to grieve. Comedy, comedy. Good luck.

There's a comedy here. This is very exciting. Thank you. Did you write a during lockdown? Yeah, I had a very odd experience. I got the book deal in 2019, then I found out I was pregnant with my second child. So I was like, well, that's a bit stressful,

but it's all right. You know, my daughter will be a nursery and I can get some help. And then my son was born five days before the lockdown. Wow. So I had two small children, the global pandemic, and I was writing a book about my own dead father. So it was fun times at my house.

It was like- There's not enough chocolate monkeys in the world to deal with that situation. The chocolate addiction during that time was unreal. Every day I was like, I mean, I deserve more. I deserve more chocolate. I just, yeah, it was hardcore. Once I just, it sounds like I'm sponsored by Tony's.

I'm not, but it is my absolute. When I found out on the pandemic, you could all do it online and they would, oh, just. It was a good day when five bars turned up. I was like, that's the next week's writing done. The little library of bars where they send all the- I don't like the library because there's some flavors in there that are not okay.

So I would make my own library. Interesting. Is it the dark one that you're not- No, I'm fine with the dark one. It's the white because it contains no cocoa. It's not chocolate. What are you doing there? And it's got popping candy.

It's got popping. Get out. Get out. I saw Jimmy Fallon feeding the rock popping candy. Did you? Yeah, because the rock doesn't eat sweets. So he has a cheat day once a week where he goes absolutely ballistic

and has like mountains of pancakes and chocolate. There's a sushi. Everything. Sushi apparently, which I didn't know. That was bad for you, great. Well, it is in the volumes that he's eating. Yeah, he's eating like entire whales. But like-

A whale on a paddy field. And you said he hadn't had candy since, like, he was a little kid. Wow. Can't remember what it tastes like. And Jimmy Fallon was like throwing some popping candy and emptied it into the rock's mouth. Wow.

And the rock had to say it was nice, but I thought there's no way you think that's- No, there's no way. Popping candy. Like, we're sugar addicts and we don't even like it. No, no, no, exactly. Yeah, it's not- It's the experience.

It's not sugar. You're not getting a sugar hit from that. You're just like, oh, my mouth is on fire and it's exploding. Where's my sugar? Yeah, mostly actual. Yeah. Anyway, grief. It's a book, the book.

You- Yeah, the book. Yeah, I wrote it during the pandemic, which was fairly depressing. But like The Griefcast, it is uplifting a read, I hope. And it's a book that you can read in your grief and not feel completely like, oh, God, this is awful. Which is always my intention to talk about grief

in a way that's how I deal with grief, which is occasionally making some jokes about other things. Yeah, it's supposed to be a helpful guide for anyone who is like, oh, shit, I just joined the club. Or even like me, 20-plus years into this experience. It's cheery than it sounds, so I'm trying to convey to a comedy audience. Also, talking about the pandemic,

I think a lot of people, during the pandemic and now in this weird, I don't know, I can't even call it a post-pandemic, because it's still going on, but where we are now, I think there's been increased levels of people thinking about death, mortality, just even the future of the entire human race. Yeah, it's big times.

So I think this is a subject for, even if people aren't currently grieving, a lot of people are thinking about this stuff at the minute and it's good to talk about, read about, you know. Yeah, and that's what I intended it to be, that it's not like, oh, you have to be in the throes of the worst grief of your life, then pick this up. It's, we're all, sorry, spoiler alert, we're all going to die.

It's, yep, it's going to happen, and someone you know is going to die, and so maybe a very close friend that you love, maybe experiencing a grief, so there's lots of advice for how to help people who've joined the club, how to support them, why we grieve like we do, like what's the history of all these expectations that we have.

So yeah, it's like a quick, not quick, it's not quick, it's a normal size length book about grief that I promise you is not as depressing as you think that might be. Just be clear though, Ed's not going to die. This is James's theory that I'm not going to die. Oh, okay, so that sounds like you need to know that James's not going to die.

Give that a little read, buddy. You might be in here, Ed, as the only person not going to die. That's the end. That's a footnote. You're all going to die. It's going to be okay. Grief is something that never leaves you, but you grow your life around it.

Subnote, Ed Gamble will never die. Yeah, Ed Gamble will never die. But what do we mean by death? There you go. What do we mean by death? Oh, man. He will always live in these podcasts. That's true.

That's true, actually. Immortal. In your heart and your memories, memories are a really important way to keep someone present. Yes, which is why global warming and the end of the entire human race scares me, because I think then people aren't around to listen to our podcast anymore.

Yeah, that's true. What do you think? Do you ever think about when, you know, like people are like, oh, it's hard to listen to vinyl now. Like, isn't I have a record, but it's a bit for fat. Will there be a time when you can't listen to a podcast? I'd be like, oh, I've got to get the podcast player. Yeah, I hope not.

And like grandkids would be like, oh, don't bother. Just press the button in your brain. Yeah, it will be that way. But I feel like if, you know, all these podcasts are on MP3 or whatever, it feels like whatever the button in the brain is, that we'd probably be able to transfer that into the brain button. You'd hope so, wouldn't you?

Hopefully. Won't be the same. Quite easily. It's like not like mashing a record into the brain, is it? Hopefully not. I feel like I'll be all right on people's brain buttons. Do you reckon? Yeah.

When society is just brains in freezers, with entertainment being played on a loop. With an app, a podcast app still going, still like not quite working. Is it bad that when you said everyone's brain's in freezers and they're having entertainment played on a loop, I thought, oh, that sounds fucking great. Of course, you can't wait. Oh, absolutely.

You love to be a brain in a freezer. Well, you're not going to die. So you're going to be there with the freezers. I'm going to be the guy putting the brains in the freezers. Yeah, you'll be OK. You'll be OK. Mind the chips and the peas. There's James's brain.

Welcome to Off Menu. It's still happening. James is still with us. I'd be good. Yeah, I'd be good. Yeah, I'd love that brain in a freezer. That sounds like girlfriend in a coma. We always start with still a sparkling water carrier.

Do you have a preference? I do. And it's still because I don't understand why you would add more gas to any situation of a body. It doesn't need more gas. I don't need more gas. Very burpy, been quite good so far. Really?

And the sparkling. Have you ever had a meeting when they only order sparkling? And it's like everyone's like, yeah, sparkling, sparkling. Why would you have still? And then you have to sip sparkling water, being like, excuse me. But surely in that scenario, you should be going like still to make sure they remember you. Yeah, I guess I'm just so terrified of the meeting in itself

that I'm afraid to be my true self-ed. Which is still water. Which is still water. Yeah, I'm a bit bad sometimes at those meetings of being like, I don't want that. I don't drink caffeine. And so often that gets upset to everybody. They're like, oh, do you want a coffee?

And you're like, oh, can I have a hot chocolate? That's what I go for, because I'm like, I need some sugar. That'll make them remember you. They do, and they think, what is this strange child who wants to make comedy about death? And you're like, I just needed some sugar. I just needed a sugar here. You needed a coffee here.

I needed a sugar. Why am I judged? Sure. Sorry. Yeah, you shouldn't be judged. How many marshmallows do you have in those situations? It depends. Is it homemade marshmallow or is it those cheap fuckers?

Homemade marshmallows. You know, you go to a posh place, and they go like, homemade marshmallow. Yeah. So you're into that? I mean, I don't like those cheap pink and white ones. That's just adding colouring. See, for me, that's my Finder's Krispy Kreme pancakes.

Right, OK. Are those little marshmallows? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the A. Casterhouse. Yeah, OK. I just love the idea of you being in a meeting and going, would you like a coffee? No, I have a hot chocolate, please.

And some of those marshmallows have you got them. Yeah, yeah. Homemade. It's taken me a long time to realise that some of my behaviour is odd. And that's the sort of thing I would have done. And then go, why did that meeting go bad? I was fine.

And now I'm getting to the age. I'm like, oh, I see that. Isn't what they expected you to do. And that's what I'm learning. That's not always. I don't see you as a gassy person. Oh, that is such a compliment. I was surprised into me as well.

Well, people who know me closely will laugh because I'm extremely gassy. My family is gassy. Write about this in the book. My dad absolutely infamous for his gas levels. Awful. The family stories are unbelievable. Clear to lift.

Clear to lift. The whole lift off. Great, nice. The whole lift off. Like a packed, you know, businessmen lift, secretaries in the 80s, 25 people. And they all got off and they all just stared at him as the job was closed.

And he went, sorry. So in that situation, if that was me dropping the egg on the lift, I would get off with everyone. So they don't know who it is, right? Yeah. My dad again. Your dad just stood there like... I would trip someone as I was going off

so that they remain in the lift. Well, my dad a bit like me, you know, odd, an odd man. And so he was very like, well, yeah, that's who it was. It was me. Because he was a gassy guy. But yeah, anyway, still water. Still tap water. Absolutely fine.

There's nothing wrong with it. Delicious. I drink loads of water all the time. I'm someone who, because I've listened to your show. I don't know why people go, it doesn't taste it. It tastes of water. It's nice. It refreshes you.

Your body needs it. Why is everyone so weird about it? I don't understand. Ice in a slice. I wouldn't mind. I get quite cold. So, you know, and sometimes there's too much ice. Very fussy.

You're picking that up. They give you too much ice. And then as you touch it, you're cold. And you think, I'm so cold now. So just a little bit of ice, a little bit of lemon. All your farts and burps coming out like icicles. I can't bear it when it's like, oh, and now I'm freezing. Just drinking this water is like,

you know, like a hot chocolate warms you up. And someone gives you something ice, ice cold. And they're like, God, I'm so cold now. Look, we've come back to hot chocolate again. If you don't want still or sparkling water, you can choose hot chocolate. Yeah, we won't stop you from having water. No, because you need, because if you're a sugar fiend,

I don't know about you, you need that constant supply of water to deal with how much sugar you're taking. Splashing at you sometimes, yeah. The other day is probably about two days ago or whatever. But I had a glass of water in the evening and I hadn't realised that all day I had not had any water. And when I had it in the evening, I literally said out loud, oh, God, water's so delicious.

I actually love this. And I said to whoever I was with, I said, I love this. Yeah, I love it. And they were like, what? I said, I love this water. Every time you start a story about your life, me and Vinny, they'll always look at each other. Yeah, yeah, always.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always, like, here he goes. Here he goes. We're going to get some other insight into this weird guy's life. I once had a really bad day with my daughter and I honestly thought, I'm a bad mum. This is like, this is I'm a bad mother. And then I downed a pint of water and I was like, no, dehydrated.

Yeah. And that's what I can say to parents. You don't get a chance to drink the water because you're so busy and running after someone else. And you do that pint and you're like, fuck, I'm a good mum. I'm a good person doing my best. I'm thirsty.

It's a big difference. Yeah. Right now at Disney, Disney World, Florida, they're doing cold hot chocolates. Yes, I've heard of this. Uh, like, in like a... Are you guys getting the same magazines? That's a shop in London that's doing this.

In like a martini glass. Oh, OK, yeah. Like, it's like a Sunday, but like a hot chocolate. A bit boozy, I think as well. Oh, OK. Chocolate milk. No, no, no. Frozen hot chocolates, they call it in them.

It's slightly different. Frozen hot chocolates and they've got some booze in them. OK. And apparently they're out of this world, out of sight, out of sight. There's a place in London that does like hot chocolate milkshake. It makes it like properly with the melted chocolate. The key is you can't be having the powdered chocolate.

Yeah. It's like you need the melted chocolate mixed with the milk and then they spin it with ice. It's really good. Great. Yeah, I had that in the summer and I was like, that has absolutely ticked that hot chocolate box in a cold fashion.

Thank you. That's what they... I don't... This is going to make you probably a little bit... I think we need a show just called hot chocolate. James and Garrett. Yeah. This is...

We can do a spin-off. I'll be honest, I feel pretty left out of this conversation. Yeah, well, I'd look like a mortal boy. You can console yourself if you ever laughed in life. Had a day at the Hotel Chocolat Kitchens. Oh, God, I really want to do that so badly. Well... Yeah, it was good.

Surely that will happen for you now. OK. You've said hot chocolate and that. And they showed... We did hot... Made hot chocolate there. With their velveteiser. With the velveteiser.

But then put it in a cocktail shake. With both of ice cubes. Oh, yes. So, there's immediately chilling it. And that was... Yes, yes, yes. That was great. Still got the little sachets you bought me, actually.

Oh, yeah, I made Ed some hot chocolate. But I guess you haven't drunk it yet. Because you don't care about what chocolate it seems. Waste? I know who I'll be giving it to next time. Yes, thank you, please. Pop noms or bread! Pop noms or bread, Carrie Adloy! Pop noms or bread!

I've got a request. Yeah? Can I have a pan of chocolate? Yes. Oh, my God. Who saw that coming? Oh, right. I'm strapped into this episode.

Ed, would you do your impression of a pan of chocolate? No, you can come see me live if you want to see the closing of my show. It's disgusting. Feel what? Is it anti-pan of chocolate? He gives it little chocolate nipples. It does have little chocolate nipples. What? On the front, the little chocolate bits at the front.

The sloth's eyes. Oh, don't tell me the material doesn't work. Oh, that way. I see when you've sliced it in half. Sorry. I was thinking of it that way, and I was like, what eyes do you look like a lizard? At the front, it's got... Yes, yes, yes.

I've been in this audience, Carrie, I don't even fucking know either. Are you laughing at pan of chocolate, or are you...? It's the first time anyone's picked a pan of chocolate for the bread course. Yeah, look, I do like bread. And I do respect it. And I... What's the word? I'm Danard. What's the better word than that?

I ruminated about this. I like I'm Danard. Thanks. I think that's more fitting to the situation. Thank you. I'm Danard because I've had some amazing bread in some very good restaurants, but then thought of not having a pan of chocolate in my...

Because I... Almost every day, pan of chocolate or cinnamon bun. But to me, I thought the cinnamon bun is... I could have had it, just felt like the pan of chocolate almost sneaks into the bread category easier than the cinnamon bun. Yeah, I agree with that. So I was like, okay, cinnamon bun, it's hedging towards puddings, isn't it? So the pan of chocolate, from a specific place, meal.

I don't know if that's how you say it. M-I-E-L, it's the French word for honey, so I might not be saying it right. Meal. Meal. Meal. Meal. It's just near Warren Street.

And it's one of the best bakery patisseries in London. Everything from that shop is incredible, but they do a very good pan of shock. And they do a gan... Gandoogio, however you say that one. Nutella type pan of shock, a special one with like chocolate lines all over it. That is very good, but it's almost too much for the bread course.

Yeah, not like a normal pan of shock. No, that's like a normal, just easy pan of shock. So I'm like a pan of shock for my bread course. That's too much for the bread course. What I'm obviously going to pick up on, that I'm surprised it hasn't picked up on yet, is pan of shock. Pan of shock?

Because if you're saying, that is how much you're saying pan of shock a lot in your life, then you have to shorten it to pan of shock. Pan of shock. I've never met anyone before who's called it pan of shock, because they normally... What? Who calls it pan of chocolate? Why you?

Oh, people who have only one a year. Yeah. Pan of chocolate, it's so long. Can you shorten it? Can you shorten it even more than that? Some people call it a pack, P-A-C. Who calls it that? Oh, like really?

Actual bakers. No, like bad station bakeries, because I've been looking before and I've gone, what's a P-A-C? I want a pan of shock. Oh, they've shortened it. Yeah, pan of shock. That might be...

I have a lot of bad verbal habits with my mum's from Essex, and that is what my mum calls them. Pan of shock. Do you want a pan of shock? Let's get two pan of shocks. I'll have a pan of shock. Oh, you've having another one. You eat so much sugar.

While ordering me sugary things. Pan of shock. So I think that might be a slightly Essex thing. I think like amazing croissants, an amazing croissant dough is as good as amazing bread. Yes, and that's what I mean. Like proper, proper, mew. It's French pastry, but the person who runs it is not French,

but they've trained there. And it is that kind of like... I used to live in Paris very briefly, and it is that, it is as good as the pan of shock. Loads of layers. Loads of layers and good chocolate. Those two eyes you're talking about. Nipples.

Yeah. Nipples. That's a bar. That's when the cheap bar, you know, they just put... This is like, you know, like, it's like they put chocolate inside it. You are getting chocolate. But that's what people think of

when they think pan of chocolate, which is why the material works. Yeah, yeah. To be fair, anyway, in context, he's talking about a breakfast buffet. The pan of chocolate, you get the breakfast buffet, and it's all there and no shock. And those little nipples make you think

that there's shock in there. Oh, that is the worst. And there's no shock in there. Because that's a machine putting the bars down, and the machine chopping off the end of a bar. And I worked that out by being upset by this happening to me. So I've gone, what the fuck?

That had two big nipples. I was going to get a big bit of chocolate, and this is all pastry. No, no, I didn't buy a croissant. I bought a pan of shock. Yeah, yeah. I need the shock to deal with it. Where's the shock?

Where's the shock? I'm in shock at this pan of chocolate. Oh, yes. I might go to this meal place because... It's so good. I don't get pan of shocks ever. Oh, wow. Because when I was younger,

my mum did homemade pan of shocks, and they are the best I've ever had anywhere. Full of chocolate. So much chocolate. Oh, man, what a caster. There's so much chocolate. It was nuts. Loads of butter.

Really like flake... It was like dirty. Yeah, that's what you know. It was a dirty pan of shock. If a patissier looked at your mum's pan of chocolate, people would probably be disgusted. Yeah, they would like, this is so greasy and dirty and gross.

And while you're doing this, you have a bite of it, mate, and then shut up because that is delicious. They should be greasy. This one annoys me when they're like, oh, it's greasy. It's butter. The bag should be going see-through.

It's not doing that. It's not good. When I was in Paris, the bags went see-through. That was prior to place. There wouldn't be any bags left after my mum's pan of shocks. Let me tell you. In your hand.

I really want one now. Like they were the best. Straight out the oven. Pan a raisin for starter. Yeah, but some a bit more savory. The pan a raisin, I mean, no, come on. It's not...

If you're desperate. So I have a recording of someone saying this. Should I play that? What? Yeah. Because... What do you mean? So it's a Japanese dish.

Oh, I see. And my sister-in-law is Japanese. And so I asked her to say it properly. Okonomiyaki. Yeah. An okonomiyaki pancake is what I want for starter. So yeah, not... I've gone, I've come to savory,

an okonomiyaki pancake, please, from Osaka. That's where they are from. Yeah. But you can get them here, but they're not as good as they were in Osaka. Okonomiyaki is so good. They're so good.

Yeah, so it's cabbage? It's all sorts. It can be... Yeah, it's like... It's kind of like an omelet to me, is what it seems like. But yeah, it's like cabbage, and sometimes it's fish,

sometimes it's shredded meat, and like cooked in this specific round way. And then it's served. This is for the Japanese mayonnaise, which is sweet. And then a kind of barbecue sauce. And then... I was going to say,

it's got your barbecue sauce in it. Yeah. And as you know, you top it with bonito flakes. Yeah. Yes. The great bonito flakes. Bonito flakes.

Oh, there is another word for them. Katsubushi. Katsubushi they're called, or bonito flakes, is what everyone calls them, which is like flaked tuna. And sometimes, because they put like other stuff

on there as well sometimes, you can have a lot, you can have almost anything. Yeah, but the dosage... Batter, like chunks of batter as well going there sometimes. Oh, I haven't seen the chunks of batter. Oh my God, they're crazy.

It's so good. It's so good. It's sort of almost like an omelet and bubble and squeak. And then sort of, because the cabbage is in there, like the shredded white cabbage. And I don't know why they call it pancake,

because it isn't really, but it's referred to as like Japanese pancake. But yeah, it's more of an omelet, bubble and squeak. But it's just like, like the way that bubble and squeak, I think is like, it's all right.

Yeah. You don't really want it. But it's there. Whereas this is like, they've gone, oh, we see your bubble and squeak and we're going to add better things to it

and make this really palatable. And in this nice little circle, so they cut up and they put the bonito flakes on and it just, and they all like melt. So it's like fish and barbecue and mayonnaise.

And I want one so badly now. So good. That cupimeo Oh, that cupimeo is the best thing in the world. It's so, but it's so wigs. It isn't mayonnaise,

like we would know. Yeah, yeah. It's very different, the cupimeo and the Japanese mayonnaise. Little baby on the bottle. Yeah. Is there a little baby on the bottle?

Yeah, with their logo, the cupi is like a little weird, sort of baby clown, weird thing. Baby, baby weird clown. Baby weird clown. Well. But my sister-in-law is from Osaka

and they got married out there. They had many weddings, but one of the weddings was out there. And that's when I first had it. She took us like the local and she was very like, oh, this is just, yeah, we'll just grab some

okonomiyaki before we go and do this wedding thing. And all of the English people like this is so good. Yeah. This is amazing. And we like lost our minds. And I didn't know the bonito flakes

were fish, phages. I just kept adding them because I thought they were just delicious pink flakes. Oh, yeah. And someone was like, that is like flaked tuna,

basically. Add it to your pork okonomiyaki. It's a bit weird. They're crazy. Those things. Works. Because when they go on a hot thing, they just melt.

They're like, just float down. Like, yeah, all bobbling around. Like those fish you put on your hand. Yeah, yeah. See if you're sexy. That's what the great bonito does. He moves around like that.

Yeah, floats around. If you look at him, he's never completely still. If you put bonito on your palm, the way he curls up tells you how sexy you are. I don't know what those lucky red fish didn't just tell you how sexy you are.

There was a bit of that, though. No, no, no. Some. I think they repackaged them for, they repackaged them for Valentine's Day. Oh, OK. As like love, as like.

When I was a kid. Yeah, it wasn't those ones. Yeah. Yeah, as far as I know, it's got nothing to do with it. I think it was just told you if you were fickle. Yeah.

You probably ate it because you thought it was a sweet. Yes. No regrets. No regrets. Well, apart from that, that it wasn't sweet. Yeah, it wasn't sweet.

That was annoying. But hey, Swedish fish, is that it then? Swedish fish. Are they sweet? You're going to love them. Are they sweet, sweet? Yeah, they're really delicious.

OK. But are they licorice? Is there any licorice? No, no, no. OK. Because Swedish, any Scandinavian normally I would never steer you towards licorice.

Thank you so much. It's disgusting. It's gross. Yeah. People love it. All the Swedish fish you'd love. OK. Although I feel like that about licorice.

It's disgusting. Yeah. But I went to Iceland recently. Oh, did you have good licorice? And they like, they love salted licorice and chocolate-covered salted licorice. And I brought some back

and I was like, I've brought it back because it's like a traditional thing or whatever. Next thing you know, I was up and down to the cupboard about eight times, whole pot gone. Well, it's the salt and the sugar

bringing you back. They just needed some heroin in there to really make it likely addictive. Absolutely off my face on it. Yeah. I grew up with a lot of licorice because my mum's best friend is Danish. So it was like all the time,

no, try some. No, you will like it. You're wrong. And then I would always eat it. And if you've got that sweet palate, it's like, it's the antithesis of that, isn't it? And I'd always be like,

it looks like it's sweet, but it's not awful. Like licorice all sorts. So upsetting of all they had is licorice all sorts. Just, I wouldn't then know. This has been discussed on the pink bit off the outside.

But it's not, it's not what you need. How would you go about beating up or keeping it in grief, killing Bertie Bassett? How would I kill Bertie Bassett? Yes. I like the way you think

that's keeping it in grief. Because that's like a true crime podcast and it's grief podcast and we don't really mix because like I don't want to hear about true crime because I'm dealing with it after Matthew Green.

Yeah. How would I comfort someone who had lost Bertie Bassett? Oh yeah, maybe that's more. I would ask them his name and I'd be not afraid to say it. I'd remember the anniversary of his death.

Try to remember the six-month anniversary of the year. University put a note on my diary so I could say, hey, I know it's about a year ago, wasn't it? Bertie died. Just wondering how you're feeling?

Are you okay today? Don't ask how are you. It's too big a question, but how are you today? Is it an easy question for someone grieving to answer? So that's how I would help. Would you be able to put

to one side your hatred for licorice though? Yeah, because grief, it doesn't matter. If someone is grieving, you can be there for them. Whether you hated that person or if you were strange, if you hadn't spoken to them for years,

if they made disgusting licorice, you can still do it for them. Also, I'd feel more weird talking about the death of Bertie Bassett if I'd spent a lot of my time eating licorice. Yes, true. Because Bertie Bassett is made of licorice. Sure.

So then it's like the last person they want to hear from. Just to be clear, I shouldn't contact you about your podcast if I've killed someone. No, there's different podcasts. True Crime. I would go for an American True Crime podcast

because they would like a 14-part series hunting you down. Even then, I wouldn't go straight to a True Crime podcast or if you have murdered someone. I don't know. Good deals, good tie-in deals.

Exclusive. Look at the end. If you're on the lam, I'd keep it quiet for now. If I'm on the lam, I can run a food podcast, am I right? I'm sticking on off menu. That's good.

We should do some spin-off specials with Prisoners on the Run called On the Lam. Oh, the lam. That is a delicious beginning. And I'm very glad that that's made an appearance. Every now and again, there's something that has not made an appearance

on the pod before that I'm delighted, gets a shout out on the pod. And that is something that for a long time, I think maybe we steered close to it. Maybe people have said something similar. And I've been like, that would be good.

And that makes me very happy that that's on there. So this is a great start. Good, I'm glad. And I can eat things that don't have sugar as long as there's some sugar in the condiments. Your dream main course. Yeah, my dream main course, look,

it's a bit, it's not exciting, but it's my dream main course. And that is because you do need to have something that doesn't have sugar in to appreciate the sugar. So I am someone that if I go to a restaurant, the first thing I do is scan puddings

and then work out what I need to have to make sure I've got room for the pudding. So thank you, James. I feel like I'm, at least I'm not alone. As the book says, you are not alone. Is that what it's about? Yeah, it's about, yeah.

You should read it. So my main course is a bit, is simple because my pudding is more complicated because obviously I was like, well, I need room. So it is just a really good Sunday roast. Chicken.

Like a roast chicken. I know that's a bit boring, but it is like... I was not expecting this. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because what you said was, you check the puddings to make sure you have room for the pudding.

And now you've gone with a Sunday roast, which has got to be top three most filling meals on the planet. Yeah, yeah. But I would, I'm careful with my Sunday roast. I'm not someone who piles it on. Like I make sure the plate is,

I don't like it when there's, when then it's like, there's no plate. Yeah. I'm like, come on. And there's specific, obviously very specific bits of the roast that I would have

and that I would like. Take us through. Okay, so a roast... Do you know what I think isn't, isn't going to make an appearance here? Prediction. I don't think you're going to have parsnips on this.

Bold, why? But you know what you can do with parsnips? Oh yeah. Roast them in honey. Oh yeah. But parsnips are sweet. Yeah.

That's why I was so shocked. I was like, parsnips are basically sugar. As soon as I said it, I thought I might be not. The sprout, no thank you. I'm already gassy and it has a very bitter flavour. I had sprouts for lunch.

Did you? Just for lunch? Yeah. I'm not sure I'm okay with all this new sprout stuff. Roast sprouts. I know my husband says this. I was like,

he like pan fries them with pancetta and walnuts. Ugh, I know. Your husband's an absolute G. He is. He's a really good cook. Yeah. Yesterday,

cooked by the person who won Bake Off. Oh. The person who won the latest series of Bake Off. Wow. She didn't cease. I don't know people's names, but she made this sprout. I thought you're very delicately

not giving a spoiler warning for people who might not have seen it. And then you just went, I don't remember her name. I don't know her name. Did you not even say thank you when she gave you the sprouts? Yes, I did say thank you.

Thank you, thingy. Thank you, Bake Off. Thank you, Bake Off lady. It was very tasty. Oh, so do you want sprouts from a Bake Off winner or do you want cake? Yeah, I was hoping for cake.

Yeah, like that. I'd be really disappointed. What? Yeah, I'd be like, I came to this for cake. If it was an event where they're like, the Bake Off person, I'd be like, oh my God, cake.

Don't diversify now. Just give me the cake. It seemed odd. Yeah, that is a big play for them. It was a TV show, and they were like, we're going to make you eat some disgusting food first

and then bring out two Bake Off contestants on to give you some nice food. So I was like, here comes the cake. Here comes cake, amazing. And they're like, we have made you Brussels sprouts and turkey. And I was like, oh, well, this is nice, but is it going to be like,

it looks like turkey and Brussels sprouts, but it's actually cake when I cut into it? No. Oh, that's really annoying. The lack of cake when you think there's going to be cake is one of my biggest, I can't. Where does that happen?

Oh, like in events or parties when like the cake, oh, wedding. Fucking cheese. No, when there's a cheese pile. We didn't want a cake. Fuck you. Because everybody here wanted a cake. Everybody here came for cake.

When they do like that, you know, like a tower of cheese. There you go, tower. Better name for it. It's a pile. Okay, I don't know. I'm not doing any marketing for the cheese people.

Okay, cheese pile. That's what it looks like to me. Doesn't need to be marketed. Disgusting cheese pile. Awful. Cake. You need cake. Or sometimes, you know,

when people are polite and no one's cut the cake. Yeah. I can't concentrate. Well, what happens often at weddings as well, which are really annoying you, is they'll cut the cake and then sort of whisk it away.

Yeah. Or it goes away to be cut. Not for people who hang around the cake. Yeah, but what if it gets taken in the back? Not for people. Are you then waiting by the door? Mate, you hang around and you loiter. They go, oh, do you want a bit?

Oh, yes, please. Thank you. Yeah. Sorry. Are you invited to this wedding? I need a business. I am such a loiter of cake. Like, I'll just make it all good until someone,

until people are like, kids parties. You hang around that cake. And then this is the best. You've got kids. Oh, I need two. Yeah, one for the kids. Sorry. And then straight one into your gob.

And then pass the child. But obviously eat some of the. Yeah. Are there loads of families you think you've got triplets? Yeah. Okay, three slices for the kids. The worst part is one time we didn't, I tried to not let my daughter have sugar at first

because I think I was worried about me. And it would happen. So for her like first couple of years, we tried to just easy, like not do it. Son, his second one, Ewi, like he's having Kit Kats for breakfast is fine. And she gave her this big slice of cake and it had chocolate icing on the top.

And she hadn't had icing. And I was like, oh, shit. If she finds out icing exists, we're fucked. Yeah. She can't know. We used to just do playing cook, playing chocolate cupcake. And she'd be like, wow.

And you're like, yeah, that's the sugar. That's it. And so they gave it to me and I just bit off the icing straight away because I was thinking that immediately I'm going to hand it to her. And so she can't even see icing exists. But it was in front of like four parents

who didn't know me very well. And they just really thought I had just taken it from my own child. Wish I had. They just looked. Yeah, I had, but the reasoning was I didn't know them well enough. And it was when you're first,

when you're like first round parenting, it's quite difficult. You have really awkward social situations all the time. And I tried to say, oh, we don't want her to have too much sugar. Obviously I was covered in chocolate buttercream. Yeah, you just ate in it.

It's not like you... Like putting it, spitting it back onto a poor patrol play and then being like, there you go, there you go. No, no, it's because it's for her. But it was quite a large amount of buttercream. So I'd eaten most of it. So it really looked like, like I was some evil mother

that was like, she can't have all the cake. I'll have half. Yeah. Anyway, roast chicken. Roast chicken. So roast chicken cooked by my husband. He was an amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing cook, incredible.

Like I am really spoiled. Over lockdown, it was insane. Like I actually said, can we just not have roast duck with pre lentils and a jus today? I'm fed up of it. Like that's the kind of thing, kind of bullshit I was coming out with.

And he was like, okay, what do you want? I was like, just want a ham sandwich. Something simple. He got so into it. And obviously it's so much time to cook that it was like eating at a restaurant every night. And I just couldn't cope. I got really stressed.

I got really stressed. That sounds tough, mate. Yeah, it was really, but I was writing a book about death. So that was tough. The death book was tough. So, and also I was a bit stressy about writing a book. And what was it like?

Especially with your gas. You can't be having lentils every night. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Sometimes he serves things. I think I say, well, you're going to have to deal with this. Not me.

I don't care. I don't have the embarrassment. But you have to sleep in the other room if you give me lentils. You thought you had your cabbage starter here. Oh, yeah. Oh, terrible. Oh, they go, if you go to a dinner party

and they give you onion soup or onion tart. Oh my God. Do you know what? I was gas for the whole, that's it. I'm in trouble. Yeah. Why can't you just go to a dinner party and they're like a normal place

and give you a pan of chocolate at the beginning? Yeah, pan of shock. Absolute dream. Absolute dream. Pan of shock, ready to rock. But they say it's started in the back. I wish I still did, Edinburgh. And that would be my title.

Yeah, that's good. Caroline, pan of shock, ready to rock. It's for the title. Roast chicken cooked by him and then roast potatoes, which he does in goose fat. Apologies, vegans, but they are so fucking good. Well, you've got a chicken on there already.

Yeah, true, but that seems fair enough. Carrots, honey roasted with, oh, what's he, does a nice herb with them? Any old herb, there's one. As long as the honey's there. Yeah, honey roasted with some fresh herbs. A Yorkshire pud, small one, not going crazy. Now, we'll come back to that.

Okay, parsnips, just plain fresh and roasted. But then my mum has to cook carrot and broccoli because my mum has a particular ability to not cook it that well. But I like it the way Ben, my husband would be like, this isn't, and I'm like, no, no, but it's like childhood. Bit crunchy, bit not quite cooked. Yeah, that's just like...

You like it more on the crunchy side than the soggy side? Oh, soggy broccoli, if you've got little bits of green going all over your plate, mixing with the gravy. No, the broccoli is a whole. It shouldn't disseminate, no. I really got into doing roast broccoli in the lockdowns and roasting it with loads of garlic and chilli and then when it comes out of the oven,

like mixing with loads of parmesan and lemon. That sounds amazing. It was great. That was like really nice. I got into my own style of broc. Yeah? Broc, panna broc. Panna broc.

I did it in a pan, so it's panna broc. Oh, panna broc. Panna broc, ready to rock. Here we go. Griddle pan. Matt Tebbitt told me how to do it. Who? Matt Tebbitt, host of Saturday Kitchen.

Yes. Griddle pan, really hot. Yeah. Long stem broccoli. Oh, yeah. That's fancy broccoli for me, but yeah. Down in the pan, listen to the recipe. Down in the pan.

Another heavy pan on top of the broc. Oh, yeah. Top of the broc. And then just hit that for like three minutes. Just have it like really charring. Flip them, do that for two more minutes. It's cooked through as much as you want it to be and it's like charred and like a bit smoky.

Oh, nice. That sounds really nice. You want your salt and pepper on there? I did it after. You do need a good griddle pan, don't you? That's the job of the cooking. That's what I've discovered from my husband, like you actually need.

You need good, some good stuff. Well, you need some basics, like. Yeah, you do. And it's expensive. It's expensive, guys. That's what I've discovered. But for roast, for me, I don't want long stem. Like when long stem turns up, I'm like, no, come on.

No, I want the short, stubby, trees, carrots and broc. Traditional broc. Yeah, traditional, just boiled. Bit of salt and water, not very much. Just boiled nicely, kept their shape. Good work. I don't know how my mum does it. She boils them together,

even though the carrots take longer. And they're all, well, that's why, because everything's not cooked. I don't know how she does it. She's boiled them together. It shouldn't work and she fucks it up completely. But it tastes lovely. And then I have to say gravy, proper gravy.

Proper, proper gravy. Because I grew up, I grew up Bisto world and it wasn't since I got married. I understood that you could actually make gravy. The worst time, the worst example of my upbringing versus his is that he said one time, why don't I just make a pasta sauce and I laugh? And said, who are you?

Lloyd Grossman. And he was like, what? I was like, you can't make pasta sauce. It's in a jar. What do you mean? I had no concept that's like he that we can make sauce because I grew up when you just put it in a jar. Yeah, yeah.

The perfect reference. Yeah. I was just like so confused. And he looked to me and he was like, you know, like I could make that jar and I could make it nice. And I was like, oh, big talk, big talk. So you make it and then you pour it in a jar and seal it up and then we take it out and pour it onto the, yeah.

And I've since learned, obviously I've learned you can make pasta sauce. But that for me is like the pinnacle example of what we both grew up with. I did not know. So now I know about real gravy. I'm on board a real gravy. See, I'm almost maybe the opposite.

I do love real gravy, but I was brought up with like real gravy. So to me, it seemed like a treat to have the bistro stuff, to have the really salty kind of like that kind of like, I remember having that around a friend's house and being like going insane for it as a kid. And like, this is amazing. I did make it, I still keep it in the cupboard because I'm like occasionally do you want a bit of bistro?

Occasionally just want that bistro hit. And he is so pained because he would like roast, you know, then cook the pan over the hob and like get all the fat juices and then add it and add the flour. And it takes him like, oh my God. He'll like, he, when he makes the roast potatoes, he peels the potatoes and keeps the potato skins

and then boils that to get this kind of potatoy water that you add to the gravy because it's really starchy. And gives gravy this. This guy sounds absolutely incredible. I know he should be here. He's really upset. I genuinely, when he found out he was like, outrageous that you are going to talk about food.

I feel like you've given him enough of a shout out. And I said, yeah, he was like, you pedophile. You better tell him about the potato skin water. Well, that obviously I was like, why are you fucking boiling potatoes against waterways? Oh, I've never heard that. And he was like, no, can't you taste that real, like rich potatoy background in the gravy?

And I was like, it's no bistro. But I do now appreciate. So just a simple like roast chicken with all the good stuff. Because I think if ever you're sad, obviously not of your vegetarian, but for me, if I'm sad or things are rubbish, like just that home comfort, a proper roast, roast chicken. And my mum is a vegetarian.

So that's all we ever grew up. She would, that's the only thing she would cook is chicken. She would like anything else. So again, me and my brother didn't eat steak until we went to other people's home. We're like, what's this? This is amazing. So yeah, roast chicken just done really well.

And I have the leg. Thank you. Yeah, you're not the leg. I like that always since a child. Now still, still. Me too. That was always, it felt more grown up. I don't know why I've been like, I'll have the leg please.

Ben's argument, my husband's argument is that you should have the chicken breast because the leg will be nicer cold. So he's like, you get your chicken breast when that, because actually that will be quite dry. So you have it warm inside the oven and then have that with your lovely chicken roast. And then the leg will be all lovely and cold.

And you can have that with like cold meat and chutney and cheese. But I'm still like, no, give me the leg. I've got no time for that chicken. Yes, I know in the sandwich. Yes. Time to go for the chicken. Fine, but shredded up with loads of mayo, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think when you're a kid, the chicken leg appeals to you because that's how, that's what cartoon characters are in here. Yeah, true. Same here now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I was roasting chickens during lockdown against another lockdown thing I started doing, roasting chickens, eating the chicken.

I bet it's just me and my girlfriend. So we would kind of like, we'd eat most of it, but all the carcass left was some meat on it. There's a lot of foxes around where we live. So I'd always want to make sure I put it out for the foxes. Got bag it up, double bag. No, I wanted them to have it. Oh, you wanted them?

Oh, okay, okay. I was like, I don't want to just chuck away this meat. You should be making a stock meat. So you were attracting foxes the way you used to live with chicken cocks. Well, we were told explicitly not to by the people who want to build it. You're a weird, weird, that, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, they would say don't leave any food out. I wonder why you moved out in a hurry. They would say don't leave any food out for the animals. So I was like, all right, go find a way around this. So there was a very good blind spot you could find behind one of the buildings where you could have, but you had to like climb up this bank and then you'd leave it in a head.

You are sounding like a murderer now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You knew where the blind spot was. So I'd like walk up there and I'll put the carcass in the hedge and then that'd be great. But then that'd be great. That'd be great because everyone wins. I'm not with him on this.

I want you to know sugar, yes, but on this, no. Foxes eat it and I feel like a good guy. You know you don't win. Well, because you've just described the saddest thing I've ever heard. Well, it gets sadder. I really didn't win the last time I did it because it was raining, but I was still like,

I've just got to put it out there. I was walking up the bank and I had this tray of like all chicken and grease and then I just slipped and I fell down the bank and all the grease went all over me and the chicken carcass and I was just laying there at the bottom of the bank just covered in grease and oil and chicken. How have you never told me this?

It hasn't come up before. And I know you wouldn't approve of me. It hasn't come up before you text me if that happens. I know you wouldn't approve of me leaving the chicken out for the foxes. I know because foxes are fucking awful. Yeah, so I didn't tell you about that. But this had just come up and I thought,

we've had roast chicken on the podcast before. We talked about, I've used up all my other roast chicken facts and anecdotes. It's time for the bank grease adventure. Let me tell you, James, none of your other chicken facts were any good. You come out with that first. You lead with the falling down the slope

with the covered in a chicken grease and carcass. That isn't a story. That is an ancient Greek myth of the man who carried the chicken carcass. One day he slipped down and it covered himself in grease and the gods laughed at him. Yeah, it's only missing some grain. And a bushel.

Wow. I hate foxes, man. Can I just say that I don't do this, but I have someone who likes cooking, that I've now discovered chicken stock, that you boil the carcass and make a stock with it. And that is incredible. You can add that to anything.

It proves all things, including homemade pasta sauce, which I now can make. I should have done that. Yeah, make chicken stock. Yeah, I'm not a good guy, that story. Why did you want the foxes, too? Like the foxes, I like them. I think they're nice.

I like foxes. I don't mind them. I don't hate them. During the lockdown, they went mad on our street. The foxes were just out and about, ripping the bins up of our neighbours because they leave the bin hanging out at the top, ripping that open.

Probably some idiot left a chicken carcass in the hedge. It'd be remiss me not to bring this up. The listeners will be annoyed if we don't address it. Ed hates Yorkshire puddings. Yes, I know that. But you know what you said? A small Yorkshire puddings. Yeah, a small one.

I'm not one of these, like, make-it-a-bulb. It's moderation. The roast, I'm not, like, you want... It's going to be filling, yes. But you don't want to be... I don't want to be stuffed. I don't want to be like, oh, God, if you're sick. That's not enjoyable.

So a small one that's, like, good crunchy, bit soft in the middle, a little bit gravy. Just one. I don't see... I mind that less, because what's my main issue with the Yorkshire puddings, James? Tastes up too much real estate on the plate. Yes, yes.

I heard you said that. And I remember thinking at the time, not necessarily. For me, your plate's full of your roast, and then the Yorkshire's just a little... A cherry on the cake. It's just plopping over there. It's not taking up any real estate. Just plop it on.

It's just over... Probably between the potatoes and the carrots, it's getting a little bit of gravy. Not too much, so it's soggy. But nothing is displaced. It's not displacing people. I'm happy with that. I'm happy to roll with that.

A little one. I think, because my mum used to make them in, like, the cupcake-cooked thing. So then you're not making a massive one. That's why mum couldn't make a massive one. Sheave did make the ready-made ones. You know, came in the package. Aunt Bessie's?

Yeah, they were like, they're so good. Not the pre-made, the powder. The powder. So you get a bit more feeling like you're cooking. I'd have met an Aunt Bessie. Yeah, true. I'd never met an Aunt Bessie in real life. I guess it's died out since the company.

Right. No one names their babies Bessie now, in case they become aunties. Also, the tray flipped up and bumped me in the head. What? When I fell down the bunk. Mate, I mean... Of course it did.

Yeah. Big metal chain. It wasn't the story, it was a message. Yeah, it's quite heavy. No, other people. I was so shocked by that story that I couldn't laugh at it as much as obviously I should be laughing. Yeah, I felt like you had to take it in at the same time.

The next time he tells that story on the podcast, because he will, I'm going to scream laughing. Yeah, I'll tell that again. Yeah, that's going to be an old classic. In case it doesn't get in. Well, the... No, no, no. Oh, no, you don't care.

You're just like, they just lap up these James stories. Hearing them on repeat. Like an old-fashioned stand-up. Just keeps doing the same. They're like, yeah, do that one, do your bit. Trying to bring that back. Yeah, do a bit about the fence and your wife. We should remake that film, The Aristocrats,

but it's just James telling the chicken carcass story over and over again. Yeah, those are different people telling it. Yeah. And then the tray flips up and bumps him in the head. I'm covered in grease. The foxes were laughing. Dream side dish.

Oh, do you know what? Can I have some miso soup? Yeah. But again, probably made by my sister-in-law. He makes, obviously. What she considers very basic Japanese cooking, but to all of us, is like, this is so nice. But just like really nice miso soup.

And she does it with a paste, makes it herself, but she adds in seaweed and carrots. Really, really finely sliced. And then whatever she has lying, like other bits lying around. But it's just like that really good when you drink it. Again, it's comfort. You drink it, you think, I feel better.

Yeah. That's how I feel about really good miso soup. This all feels like, definitely feel... If you hadn't told us you were building up to dessert, this is now very obvious, because you've got the miso soup almost. It feels like you're cleansing. Cleansing, yes, always.

Everything that's happened before. And then you're just sort of ready for this dessert to hit. Yeah. Also, miso soup is one of those things that I always like, I'm thinking about deliver a row here, or even going into a place and ordering sushi and whatever. And then like, it's an afterthought for me. I never think of it straight away. And then when I think about miso soup,

I get quite excited that, oh, I could have a miso soup. And it comes all double cling filmed. Yeah. And it's still good. And then it's all cloudy at the bottom, you stir it, and you're like, this is good miso soup. I didn't used to until I met my sister-in-law. She married into our family.

And then when I saw how good, again, I was like, oh, I see. Because I'd always had that kind of slightly... I don't know what we used to get here in like 90s takeaway stuff. Or you were like, it's like this brown, warm liquid. Don't really know what it is. You could get powder. I remember having powder stuff. You could get powder.

But now I feel like it's improved so much. So now I always order it. And it's a good test of a restaurant doing that sort of food. If their miso is good, then you're like, well, okay, everything's going to be good. But if it's like crappy miso soup, I'm like, oh, prepare yourself, guys. Big trend for miso and desserts at the moment as well. Sure.

No. Oh, you don't like it. I love it. I love it. I like it. It depends. It depends. You've got to be have...

If it's like miso panna cotta, is there a raspberry coulis or something to like make me come back for the sweetness? If it's just savoury puddings. Yeah. I don't think miso is that savoury in the pudding. It's quite nice like... It adds a little savoury edge, maybe. It's like a salty edge.

But you need to have sweet... You've got to have something. Have you had the white chocolate and miso cookies from creme? Oh. I would... If I was going to creme, I just wouldn't waste it on that. Like it... Because I'm only going to get one cookie.

There's a thing. I wouldn't waste that flavour. I'd be getting the chocolate. Next time. Get ready for this. Okay. You might be about to switch agents. Okay.

When I had Covid, my agent sent me a box of creme cookies. Oh. Well, kind. Kind tool. Shit tons. Yeah. Kind, but also cruel, because I'd lost my sense of taste. You didn't stop me eating them.

Yeah, yeah, sure. You know, every day. You still get the texture. Still, yeah, going for it. Still, I'm having... But those miso white chocolate ones were the best. Well, okay. Well, then I will try them.

I will try them. No, James has said it. I will try them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, fair enough. I think he's a guy. Like, a sugar bean just recommended them. Because for me, if I saw it, I'd be sad, you know,

when you don't get the chocolatey thing in a pudding. And then you see someone, I think, oh, I should have just gone for a fucking brownie. What am I thinking? Yeah. What am I thinking that I wanted a crumble? I wanted a brownie. I went mad on creme in lockdown.

And I saw they were doing delivery. They put on their Instagram. We do delivery now. I was like, great. So I pre-ordered them for delivery. And what I didn't realise is the delivery was just someone biking them over. Right.

It's like 25 quid delivery. Oh, that's what happened with meal. They were doing the same. They were like, delivery. And I literally put everything in. I was like, yeah, bread and the chocolate tart was sold in and the apple chasson and then found a shot. And then they were like, 20 pound delivery.

And I had to delete it all because I was like, I can't justify this. And that's where we part ways. Yeah. Yeah. Ed's already in. Yeah. Oh, 50 quid boxes of cookies.

Yeah, it's too much. And then you can't enjoy it because you're thinking, that's one pound, 50. That's five pounds. I think Ed enjoys it even more in that situation. I think, you guys, I spent this money and that means fully enjoy that. It's good.

I spent my name. Just sit in the bathroom, eat them. And if I don't enjoy it, then it's ruined. But you got this miso soup. Miso soup. It's not going to go anywhere near. I'm very, very wary and protective of the puddings and when people fuck around with them.

And it has to be worth it. And it has to be okay. Like, don't just come in there and start digging around for the sake of, oh, I'm doing this to be new. Yeah. And a lot of restaurants do that. And then it's like,

it's so funny to go out for like romantic meal and like, oh, this food is amazing. They get to pudding and I'm so grumpy because I'm like, they don't care about puddings. And I just feel affronted. And then he's like, it was really expensive and it's Michelin Star. And I'm like, well, so what?

They need to up the game. I need to go and get a pan of shock now. Yeah. Even from prep. I need to go and get a prep pan of shock just to get the sugar in that I didn't get. Yeah. During the lockdown,

James would leave his miso soup remains out for the crows. I'd go to the top of a hill to put them on there. Some of the highest hills to put them on the bird table. Then you fell over, didn't you? Yeah, it's all the way down, broke my crown. Your dream drink. Oh, dream drink. Well, this is a bit, again, I don't really,

I do drink alcohol, but not very much. I genuinely, genuinely, I'm absolutely wasted after half a glass of white wine. Absolutely. No one believes it until they see it. And then they go, oh my God, it's true. They would think I'm being like, oh no, me, I can't drink. And then I've had half a glass

and I'm like trying to get on a table and start dancing and swearing. And people go, actually, it's not funny. They think it's going to be funny. So I would like a non-algorithic drink. And I am big into elderflower. Elderflower spritz. And if it comes with some shaved cucumber,

you know when they do the big, they like peel a cucumber. Oh, I'm so happy. I'm so happy. But a fresh mint. Spritz not a bit dangerous with your gas. Yeah, you're right. But it tends to be not so gassy when it's elderflower. Good question.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't seem to be quite, maybe it's to mix it with elderflower cordial. Yeah. And then they mix it with like a tonic or something. I don't know, it doesn't seem too gassy. I can cope.

Coke? Too fizzy. Way too fizzy. Yeah. Oh my God, no way. That's just bad. No way. No way.

No way. No way, no way. And caffeine. Well, yeah, I don't drink caffeine because it makes me hyper. So I don't need any more. The sugar is enough. What would happen if you had half a glass of white wine

topped up with Coke? Fuck. Ask Sarah Pascoe because she's seen it. It's still dancing at two in the morning. Yeah. It's, yeah. I just don't need that much. Yeah.

Just don't, some people need it. Some people don't. And I learned that really quickly. Social situations taught me. And it was just too bad because then everyone would have a glass of wine and you're wasted. So by the time you think,

oh, I need to start drinking, I'm so drunk. And then everyone else has like five glasses and they're drunk and you're sober. Because you're like, I had to stop because it was so bad. And now you're really drunk. And I'm like, I need to go home. You can catch up pretty quickly.

Surely. No, you've gone back round. You've gone back round. Yeah, yeah. I used to have, when we were in Pascoe University, I used to have one smell of ice all night and that would see me through the entire night. Yeah.

Would you drink it quickly or would you be nursing that all night? Wouldn't be nursing it all night, but I wouldn't down it. Yeah. Just too gassy. And I was like obsessed with dancing so I'd be up on a podium dancing

and then you're like, you can't be sloshing that around. It's too much. So I would go, we'd get into the club and she would buy like two blue WKDs and I'd get my one smell of ice. And then we'd go, yes, I went to uni with Pascoe. That's why I'm doing it. And then she'd be like, I'm going to get another one.

I'd be like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. So that's me put about half an hour. That's great. I wasn't nursing. And then I wouldn't need another one. Yeah. I was wasted.

Yeah. Cheap date. Pascoe fighting everyone in the room. With a blue tongue. With a blue tongue, yeah. Yeah. I'm going to fuck around with her. Fuck off.

Come here. I'll be back up. Well, no, no. She wouldn't have got any backup from me. Too busy dancing. We were too busy dancing. We were not fighters. Yeah.

Yeah. You were dancers, not fighters. You wouldn't mess with her, actually. That's what I think, to be fair. That does sound good. I think that's... And again, for me, the old flower, it's very good at taking away all the sugar,

even though it's made of cordial. Sure. Like, because it's like, it's refreshing. And so because I'm eating so much sugar, I sometimes need something to cut through all that. If I had a Coke, it's just more sugar. I mean, I think, I think out of flower cordial is really, really sweet.

It's not sweet as a Coke. Well, it depends how... I'm not drinking it in me. I'm not doing shots of cordial. What levels are you putting in? Oh, light levels. Yeah, yeah. I want it to be like a hint of old flower.

I don't want that like, oh, this is pure cordial. Yeah, you don't want to feel it sort of more syrupy. Yeah. Or like when they do homemade lemonade in old flower. Oh, that's... I'm so excited when they do that. Have you had an elderflower course and press? Yes, obviously.

Brilliant. Great. Great. Absolutely one of the best. One of the best. It's been a while since you brought course and press up. Well, I love course and press. Really, that's one of my things.

We've not really brought it up, but similar things for a while. And the elderflower one is the, you know, that's an unsung hero. Yeah. I haven't taught... Oh, rhubarb's my favourite course and press. Everyone knows that.

Oh, I don't mind it, but I'd always go for elderflower. Fair enough. It was because it's sweeter. Elderflower one's sweeter to be fair. I find rhubarb sometimes gives you a bit of a... Yeah, that's what I like. ...tang, or you like the tang.

A bit sour, a fact like tangfastics thing going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. You like it. I love a tangfastic drink. Yeah, yeah.

No, that's too tang. Yeah, I like the tartness of the rhubarb course and press, but the sweetness of the elderflower is, you know... Yeah, it's lovely. The full range of course and press is an exception. I love course and press. Huh? You've run out.

Yes, yeah. I want to just move on to this dessert because I'm excited about it. Pumped. Okay. Pressure's on. I'm trying to guess what it's going to be. This is from a connoisseur,

from someone who values dessert above all else. Judges' restaurants on whether their dessert is good or not. Doesn't like salty things in the dessert, doesn't like licorice. So we're talking a classic sweet dessert here. Requested some rhubarb coulis on something earlier. Maybe it's going to be fruity, but then said I wish I just had a brownie earlier

as an example of things that she gets food envy over. So maybe it's going to be chocolatey. I'll make a small prediction. I think this might be an invented dessert, which we have now and again. Like a frankness. That it might just be like every chocolate bar in the world crushed up into a bowl of custard.

Yeah. Yeah. It could be like a frank and food. You said it was going to be complicated. Is it? And I'm worried you're not going to let me do what I need to do. Interesting. Let's see.

Okay. I require... This is already like you're doing some sort of spell. I require a pudding trolley because I have one, two, three, four puddings. Wow. Now I'm happy to talk through them. And I'm happy for you to understand why all four are quiet. Okay.

Yes. Because it's a dream restaurant. Yes. And so it was it was impossible for me to choose one pudding because as a pudding connoisseur depends on your mood. Am I feeling chocolatey? Am I feeling fruity? Am I feeling like custody creamy?

So what that's an interesting point. So you're saying it's a dream restaurant. Yeah. And one pudding is not your dream in many ways. That's your nightmare. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

You know, I'll go with that logic. Yeah. One pudding would be, I'd be like, oh, well, whose dream is this? It's not mine. Yeah. Sure. This is Ed's dream. Let's hear him.

Okay. I'm going to start with the most recent one I had. Uh-huh. Okay. Because it's fresh in my memory. So it's a good place to start. So we recently went to Copenhagen and we went to a restaurant called Amass. Which is, I think, I was a Muslim style.

So anyway, it's very, very posh. I've not been there, but I've heard of Amass. You might have heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. We only went because my husband researches these things and was like, we've got to go to Amass. But you check the, you check the website to see if they had puddings.

They didn't even have information. Yeah. It's that kind of restaurant. It was like, you're just going to get 10 courses of things. But I trusted him. And we had to drive very far out of Copenhagen to an industrial estate. Yeah. And go somewhere which I felt immediately a bit unsafe.

I was like, not quite sure where we are. Left my children in a hotel with my mum, bit worried. And then it was all like concrete blocks. That's the vibe they're doing at the moment. Anyway, it was incredible, incredible. The food was incredible. But the pudding, they gave two puddings. The one of the first puddings was, I'll describe it to you,

a marigold custard with wild Swedish blueberries, bee pollen and lavender honey. It was very small, small pot. When it's my small pot with this custard, then the blueberries on top. Fucking hell, I can't tell you. I can't tell you. I can't tell you.

The pollen, the honey, you dipped into it. First of all, I'm a bit disappointed to see. I think it was quite small. Yeah. There's no chocolate. Okay. Fuck, fuck, fuck. How's this going to go?

And then I bit into it. It was like, and I know this sounds awful. I sound like Jilly Gordon on the food show many years ago. It was like summer. Like someone had made summer into a pudding and put it in your mouth. Like the blueberries, the most blueberry, blueberry I've ever tasted.

The lavender honey was so subtle. The pollen is a little bit crunch. And then the marigold custard, and the marigolds grown outside this industrious, like they grow all the food there. So it's like light and custody and creamy, but also the blueberry, but also that sweet. Like really good honey.

Like this is not, yes, essential. I chose sugar syrup. And it was incredible. And it was very small. This is my justification with this pudding. So they're all not huge. So that would be my first pitch. That sounds great.

Sounds amazing. Also, if you're ever in Copenhagen again, I have to recommend this place to you because it is the best cheesecake I've ever had ever. Oh, I wish I'd known. I went with Henry Whitticombe, who you will know. And he said to me, he wasn't bothered because cheesecake, he said,

I had a really... My mum used to make this really good one when we were kids. The strawberry one, nothing's ever been as good. He got the strawberry one at this place and he looked at me really serious and he went, this is what I've been chasing my whole life. That's my kind of person.

Yes, chasing that pudding here. He was very, very happy about it. It's called Bertels Salon. Oh, okay. Just incredible. Are you ready for the next pudding? Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm sorry.

I feel like I'm being such a geek about puddings. We went to basically the Sportsman, which is like a gastropub. It's Kent, is it Kent? Yeah, but it... And they did, again, quite small, a brambly apple souffle with salted caramel ice cream. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it was green and it came out and they put the ice cream on top so it melted. And when you dug it in, it tasted of bonfires and autumn. So I've got summer and autumn there. Oh, I like this. I like where this is going. And there's four of these.

Yeah, you know, she's absolutely bullshitted away into getting four puddings. This is not... This is working. This is the four seasons of puddings. What are you talking about? Pick those two puddings and then went, I know the way I can get around this.

Now, this is great. Winter and spring. How am I going to fucking crowbar that? One of them's going to be cold. This is fucking great. They say, grief, you have to go through all the seasons to really feel it. And this is what's happening.

Yes. I actually haven't done it that well for the rest of them. That's delicious. Sorry, I realised. It was so delicious. Sufley, dessert souffle is absolutely incredible. And that brambly apple, I'd never had apple souffle.

So when that came up, I was like, oh my God. I still have a problem with the souffle, and all I can really taste is the background of egg. Yes, it's bad souffle. I agree with you, but I have to say, this was the best souffle I've ever had. I had an amazing souffle at the hand and flowers, a blackberry souffle that was not eggy.

So I'm well on board with this. I think if you've done well and it's got a good fruit, and it's normally not apple, because apple's quite hard to capture. Like, it's quite, you know, it doesn't... We don't have apple jam. Like, you do, but you know what I mean? Like, it's not something you really get that sense of.

And it was this green, light green souffle. I don't see it. With this brown salty caramelising, like melty in the middle. And you know, when you just stopped talking, we just didn't speak. And afterwards, we still didn't speak. We were just silent, like, for ages.

Like, my God, what was that? I haven't managed to make the seasons. I would have been sensible. I'll help you. Well, that's got ice cream in, so maybe that's all to man winter. Okay, next is my pavlova, because I make fucking amazing pavlova.

What season were you born in? Summer. I make a really good pavlova, because I love pavlova, so I perfected the recipe of pavlova. And I was like, good pavlova, cream, bit of icing sugar in that cream, so make chantilly cream,

then raspberries, a little bit, maybe if you feel adding some passion fruit, tiny bit passion fruit, mint leaves, that's all you need. It's very simple. Very simple. Why, isn't it? Looks like snow.

Yeah, so we can save the snow man if you feel like it. Yeah, I haven't thought... That would have been really clever. I've just thought about printings I liked. I'm sorry. Yeah. Oh, I know. That's coming across.

But you have to make... If you mix... You have to mix... Do you know this about pavlova? You have to mix corn flour and vinegar. No, I didn't know. Really? You know, right.

So, you know, you get dry pavlova, like the meringue, which is really dry, and they sometimes sell them like, oh, it's lengthy, but you bite them and you're like, this is so dry and powdery. That's just meringue. But to make pavlova, to get the squidgy bit,

you add... No, I'm sure someone correct me, but this is how I make it. Corn flour and vinegar, you make a paste, and then you very carefully add that to your egg whites, and that's how you get that chewy bit in the middle. Right. Oh, God, genuine vinegar.

I love your chewing meringue. I'm making chewy. I'm making this big, it's crusty here, and then that is all chewy, all soft. Absolutely. You can't see it, but it's a big chunk. Yeah, it's a big chunk, as it should be. Yeah.

No powdery meringues, please. No, I hate those. And people go, oh, just buy ready-made meringue. What? Yeah, what are you talking about? It's so... It's easy. It's easy to make a pavlova.

It's simple, it's quick, and it impresses everyone. It's a good one to turn up with. Everyone's like, wow, you made a pavlova. There's a restaurant. I don't know if it's still there, a cafe in Paris, called Mamigato, which was run by, I think, a Japanese woman who'd perfected French patisserie, and they used to make a raspberry and pistachio frangipane,

which was just a kaya. They did a pear and chocolate one and a raspberry and pistachio, and they cooked them fresh every day, and we lived opposite it, and I went there a lot. I went there every day, and... Every day? Almost every day, yeah. There to get a hot choc.

I can get my pan of choc from around the corner. Pan of choc and a hot choc. Oh, yeah. But for choice in Paris, for pasta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that is just frangipane. I just think it's underrated. It's really delicious.

That with a bit vanilla ice cream, there, winter. And I also want... There's ice cream on about three of these things. I also want a really good hot chocolate, from an Italian hot chocolate. Like one you stand your spoon up in. Yeah. One that is basically melted chocolate.

Melted chocolate, yeah. Because then when I went to Italy for the first time, after I left school, I went into railing, and I went to Italy and I discovered, and I was like, having drunk Cadbury's water hot chocolate all my life, I was like, what is going on? And now I'm just searching for the hot chocolate. It's all I keep going for.

I've got a good one at the moment, from a brand called like Pump Street or something like that. Yeah, Pump Street Chocolate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a brand for a gassy person. One ticket to Pump Street, please. Yeah.

Can't have I told you, I guess I am. I tried, I've kept it hidden. Then I also have a request for like, Petty Fours after this, but I know it might not be accepted. Absolutely, I'm with you. You're on hand service here, I think. I love it, whenever I've been at a fancy restaurant,

and I'm having the desserts, and in the back of my head, I'm like, if they don't bring out Petty Fours, they can go fuck themselves. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing, because you think, I can take more sugar. Yeah, they're good at bringing them out. Well, then I'd like the homemade Rolos from Hawksmore,

if you had them. Oh, well, no. They are fantastic. They're so good. They're like big, flat Rolos, and they put a little bit of salt on top, and normally, if you eat them, you feel sick, but this is a dream restaurant,

so I'm not going to feel sick after all those puddings, and I can then have a Rolo, because every time I eat one, I think, damn it, this is too much after the steak. I feel sick. But dream restaurant, to have four of those by myself, they're like, I don't know how they do it. It's like, it's like what you want a Rolo to be,

but a Rolo isn't. We talk about this moment a lot on the podcast, and I think I might have mentioned that it was with this, but that first moment when you're in a restaurant and you realise you're an adult and you're paying for it, so you can just order something again, and I was with some friends, and I was like, it was more of those Rolos, please.

Brilliant. That's how I feel about all puddings, because obviously my whole life was like, no, you can't have another one. No, that's enough. No, Carrie had to stop. Stop adding ice cream to the ice cream factory. Oh, man.

Ice cream factory. Dangerous stuff. So dangerous. I won an ice cream factory in competition once, but at what cost? It wasn't an official competition, as such. Well, I was just meeting my friends, Sean. Yeah.

Like, Kevin Pizza Hut. So I homemade Rolos from Hawksmore, and then some Pierre Hermey macarons. Oh, I think that was going to be it, and then. They're good macarons. They're the best macarons. Passion fruit and chocolate, particularly. Lovely.

They've got a branch here now, and they bring them over in the morning on the Eresta. Yeah, that's what I heard. That's what they told me in the shop. Wow. My wife lived in Paris for a bit as well, so whenever I'd go and visit, it would just like Pierre Hermey just straight down the hall.

Oh, yeah, I'm saying it wrong. I know Pierre Hermey. Sorry, I'm saying Pierre Hermey. I don't even remember. My mom's from Essex. Pan a choc on a Pierre Hermey, please. Yeah, two macarons. Right, on a region menu batch, you know?

See how you feel about it. OK. Water. Still water from a tap. Popped on some bread. You want pan a choc la for meal. Starter. Pan a choc.

Economy Aggie from Osaka. Main course. Roast chicken cut by your husband. Roast potatoes, honey roast carrots, Yorkshire Pud, gravy, mum's boiled carrots and broccoli. Side dish, miso soup made by your sister-in-law. Drink, elderflower spritz with peeled cucumber and mint. Dessert.

Mabagol custard, blueberries, pollen and honey from Amass in Copenhagen. Brambley apple souffle, salted caramel and ice cream from the sportsman. Your own homemade Pavlova. Raspberry and pistachio fangipane from Mamigato in Paris. You would like an Italian hot chocolate as well. And petty fours of the homemade Rollos from Haltzmore and the Pierre Hermey macarons. I'm so ashamed. I have never been proud of a guest.

I don't think you need to be ashamed. I'm extremely proud of you. That dessert course sounds like a description on a script of a French Regency party. Perfect, that's my dream, yes please. Your dessert course is, with all due respect, the length of most people's full menus. Yeah, correct. And you see what I was like, that's how I feel about it. It's like you've just got to get through some other stuff to get to the dessert.

But you said that and that was bullshit because the rest of it is massive as well. Well, yeah. Because the roast chicken, you've got all the roast chicken on the sides, plus another side. But it's a dream restaurant. I would have thought, I did think, should I just do a sandwich? So you don't need to just... Okay, okay, okay. What is carrying Kamiad through that roast dinner is the pan of chocolate I shared earlier.

So don't worry. Thank you very much for going to the dream restaurant, Kamiad. Thank you so much, Kamiad. Thank you, Kamiad. You're my hero. What a wonderful episode. Yes, very, very nice episode. Good for you, an Acaster special, I'd say.

Oh, I feel very happy at the end of that. I would have happily just skipped from pan of chocolate all the way to dessert and had a lovely time listening to it. I mean, so many shout outs for that. Even when we were talking about some of the savouries, we ended up on tangents into dessert. Yes, we did. And look, sometimes that's not my sort of thing.

But the desserts that Kamiad picked all sounded so delicious that you can't really argue with it. It's not a Magliano situation. Sure, sure. Or a Rosie Jones situation where it's just loads of bad stuff. Yeah, and almost there was some trolling going on in those episodes. I would say that's aimed towards you. I don't think Kamiad was trying to do that at all.

No, the place she went to, just emotionally, when she was talking about those desserts, especially that first one, I thought she was going to take off. Yeah, yeah, it was very emotional. I nearly shed a tear for the taste of summer. You should get Kamiad's new book, You Are Not Alone. Not Alone. It's available now.

Also listened to the Griefcast, of course. Also listened to the Griefcast, a wonderful podcast, talking to special guests about grief and their experiences with grief. An important podcast. An important podcast. This one. This is very important. Oh, yes.

I apologize. Don't do yourself down, James. And she did not say Andouillette, of course. Thank you for not saying Andouillette. Shariad, I mean, look, unless they make a dessert version of that. Yeah. Kamiad's going nowhere near it. Yeah, maybe they will one day.

Maybe one day they will feed whatever animal it is, I'm guessing a pig. Loads of loads of chocolate. Then get its chocolatey intestines and put it into a sausage. And would you eat that? Yes. Thank you very much for listening. We will see you sometime soon.

Bye-bye. Goodbye. Hello, it's me, Amy Gladhill. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu, where I spoke to my mum and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato. And our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread.

I'm not going to spoil it in case. Get him on, James and Ed. But we're here sneaking in to your podcast experience to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News. It's about all the new stories that we've missed out from the North because, look, we're two Northerners, sure. But we've been living in London for a long time.

The new stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes. It's all kicking off. And that's a new podcast called Northern News. We'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glittle's mum on every episode. That's Northern News.

When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy! Is it? Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog. You've left it so late.