Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 53: Richard Herring (Bonus Episode)

Episode Date: April 4, 2020

We live-streamed a very special lockdown episode of Off Menu with guest Richard Herring for the Cosmic Shambles Network’s Stay at Home Festival, which is raising money for artists who have had their entire livelihoods taken away by the pandemic.You can watch the full live-stream on YouTube here. And, if you have the means to, please donate to the Stay at Home Festival fund here.Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Live-stream produced by Trent Burton for the Cosmic Shambles Network.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Listen to Richard Herring’s Leicester Square Theatre Podcast.Follow Richard Herring on Twitter: @herring1967Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy, now. Please? Well, hello there, and welcome to the Off Menu podcast with me, Ed Gamble, and who's that over there? It's James A. Castor, as per. You say as per, James, but we're in our separate houses, aren't we, because we be on lockdown. Yes, yes, I miss you very much, Ed. I know, I miss you too, man. Every day I wake up and I look at my poster I've got of you

on my wall, and I think about you and I think about chatting with you. And then I cry. I've made a replacement you out of cushions and vegetables. Yes, because if you've never touched me before, one thing you need to know about me is I'm very fluffy, and I also feel like a carrot. But not where you'd expect. Now, this episode of the Off Menu podcast is a live-streamed episode that we did because of that bloody virus, all of us, all in our separate houses. And you know what the Off Menu podcast is, we're going to do a proper intro for it when we play out the live-streamed

episode. And who's our special guest for this bonus episode, James? It was a man named Richard Herron. I had to Google him. Yes, we both had to Google him. He is a comedian apparently, but he's on this episode because he won a fan competition to be a guest, which is very exciting. We had thousands of entries. Everyone had to do their best drawing or painting of us. And Richard won. Yes, you looked so much like a pillowy carrot. It was unbelievable in that drawing. He absolutely nailed me. Bang to rights with that pillow carrot. So it's a really fun

episode. Obviously, it's live-streamed. There might be a couple of bits of internet interference or a little bit of lag here now and again, but the magician, the great Benito, will have done a top job on it. We did this for the Cosmic Shambles Stay At Home Festival, which is raising money for artists, comedians, people of that sort who have been hit hardest during this time. We've lost all their money. You can donate if you enjoyed this episode or indeed if you enjoyed any of our episodes. Go on to CosmicShambles.com forward slash Stay At Home. Well done, James. He's remembered the website. We'll give you that one. That was a victory.

Thank you. Also, you'll know that we have a secret ingredient, James, every week. And this week, we'll tell you the secret ingredient now because during the record, we held it up as a sheet of paper so Richard Herring couldn't see. James, what is the secret ingredient? Yogurt. It's yogurt. We're really trying to catch Richard out because he did a show called Someone Likes Yogurt. We know he likes it, so he might say it and if he does say it, wouldn't it be funny in

a live stream to just cut him off and chuck him out the restaurant? That would be great. It would be absolutely hilarious. So donate. Hope you enjoy. This is the first ever live streamed episode of Off Menu. Tuck your napkins in and let your lips. Welcome to the Off Menu Lockdown Special. This is Ed Gamble. You should know me from my voice, but we are missing someone. You can see the magical lamp there that houses the genie, James A. Caster, the genie waiter. How are we going to bring him into the lockdown live stream podcast? Well, how about everyone rubs their screen? Rub, rub the lamp there, everyone. Rub the, I can't believe some of you are actually doing it. You fucking losers.

Rub the lamp, rub, and, oh, oh. There he is. He's knocked his own computer. Hello, James. So many years of slumber. Thank you, viewers, for rubbing my lamp and releasing me. Hello, Ed. Yeah. You're not a traditional genie, are you, in that you don't live in the lamp. You live just behind the lamp. Yeah, people don't know this about me. I live just behind and a little bit down from the lamp. But I can't say how long unless someone rubs the lamp first. Rules of rules.

So you're not imprisoned by the lamp, are you? You just sort of sleep near it. I'm not imprisoned by it. If anything, I just keep an eye on it. It's imprisoned by me, if anything else. I keep a close eye on that lamp. It's just your lamp, isn't it? Yeah. The only reason I popped out, it wasn't magic. I was just like, stop rubbing the lamp. Leave it alone. James, I've written an intro because I always forget to do an intro, so I've just had to scribble this down very quickly.

Oh, nice one, man. I'm proud of you. Let's hear it. Okay. Here we go. Welcome to the Off Menu podcast. When the humour and chat is mixed together perfectly, it rises like an audio souffle. Very nice. But never collapses like a souffle, right? No, never does. Unless we introduce a spoon to it, which pops it, which is our special guest this week. We're hoping he's not the spoon that pops the audio souffle. Before we introduce him, James, would you like to tell everyone what the podcast is and what it's about?

Welcome to the Off Menu Lockdown podcast, where we ask a special guest their favourite ever, starter, main course, dessert, side dish, and drink in the Dream Restaurant. This is Off Menu. Lovely. I loved that, mate. So, we can introduce our special guest. He's in the top 30 podcasters in the UK. Yeah, it's pretty good, man. He's been going for a while. He was top 15 for a bit, but unfortunately, he's been knocked down the ranks by some young upstarts. Yeah. Also, very exciting. This is our very first guest ever who asked to be on it.

Multiple times. Yes. It means a lot. Multiple times on his own podcast has invited us both separately on his own podcast, specifically to ask to be on this podcast. And what's great about this is because it's a special live streamed episode, this doesn't even count. No, it doesn't count. I think it's only us watching it. So, please welcome our special guest to the Dream Restaurant. It's Richard Herring.

Richard Herring! Hello, Richard. I've done so little preparation as well, given that I've wanted to be on it. I've done nothing. I'm going to make some of them up as I go along. Perfect. So, you really want to be on the podcast, but you've never thought about what you would say on it. I just assumed I wouldn't ever get on. So, you know, I didn't know that.

I'm thinking about it. And now I've got to look after my kids all day. So, you know, it's hard to do any work. Do you cook for your kids, Richard? Yeah, now I cook a little bit. Yeah. I mean, the kids are easier because it's sort of generally fish fingers. That's quite easy. Is that your signature kid's dish? That's my signature kid's dish. So, they're quite fussy. My son is surprisingly will have a crack at anything. So, anything I'm eating, he will eat. He's eaten licorice, which is

a two-year-old. He's had to go to some non-alcoholic beer I was drinking. I haven't given him alcoholic beer yet. So, he has a crack at most things. It's quite adventurous. But yeah, the kids are quite, you know, fussy, aren't they? But I cook a bit. I cook quite good vegetarian chili or a meat chili now. I used to be vegetarian. We started roasting a lot of vegetables and fish, me and my wife. Tonight, I'd do a very good steak and my wife said if she was on your show, she would choose the steak I cooked the night before she was just about to turn vegan. And then she never liked steak until I cooked her a steak and then she now eats steak.

So, it didn't do well for her veganism. It's good to know that your wife was prepared for this. He's just downstairs if you want to swap. So, that's the beauty. You could just tag team. This is working for us, Rich. I'm upset you're not really dressed as a genie. I suppose that's quite offensive to genies though, right? So, in the modern day, you would dress in modern-day clothes as I was expecting curly shoes and stuff. Yeah, those were old genies. I wear curly shoes sometimes, but only on Sunday when I go to a genie church. I didn't know you once a genie church.

Yes, yes, I'm a latched genie Christian. Who do you, who do genies worship at genie church? Is it like normal Christ? Robin Williams. I mean, genies are from Islam though, aren't they? So, that's where it originates. So, we must be ostracised for becoming a Christian. That must have been tough for you. Yes, it was very difficult. We used to be genie Muslims and then someone made a wish and changed us into genie Christians. We didn't want to do it, but it was some real mean person who had done a lot of study into genie law

and then found a lamp and then changed our entire lifestyle. So, yeah, we're all Christians now. It's pretty tough, but I'm praying for you. Richard's trying to get us in trouble with religious people straight away. Oh, yes, he likes that. I'm just giving you some facts, but you know more about it than I do. You are a genie. So, I'm sorry for genie explaining for you there. That was rude of me. Yes, a bit offensive, but fair enough. I know how my life is, Richard.

I know, I'm sorry. What are you wearing there, James? This is a jumper. Genies have just got into these. For a while, we didn't really wear jumpers and lately, it's all the craze. All the genies are wearing them. We go around showing them off to each other. I'm hoping some other genies are watching this are going to be absolutely jelly at my jersey. Some jelly genies.

Some jelly jelly genies. Maybe Richard will order a jelly today for his pudding. Who's to say? No spoilers, Richard. I know you've mentioned it. That's quite a good idea. Yeah, I forgot. You're completely making it up. Right. So, Richard, you've got to close your eyes now because what you'll know if you're a podcast listener out there is that every week on the podcast, we have a secret ingredient. Yes. If our guest says the secret ingredient, then they get kicked out of the restaurant and I've got to say for any episode that we've ever done so far, I really hope this is the week we have to kick someone out of the restaurant. It will be very funny.

So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to hold up the secret ingredient to my camera. Don't you peek, Richard, you little shit. I've got my eyes on you. Can we see that? Yes. You can see that. Okay. Everyone could see that. Right. If Richard says this secret ingredient, he is out on his ear. We're kicking him out of the Skype chat.

There we go. Okay. And we're going to sub you in for Katie. Yes, that's what's going to happen. Still all sparked in water, Richard. I don't like people to choose tap water because you've got a genie who can bring you water from literally anywhere in the world. So, tap water. Why just tap water? So, I was starting to try and think of unusual spring water, which then made me think what I would like is the water from the Fountain of Youth in the 1970s television show Big John, Little John. You are both too young to understand.

No, that's Big Cook, Little Cook. I know it. There's a Big Cook and there's a Little Cook. I know it. I know it. It's like there's a Big Howard and a Little Howard. It's all explained in the theme tune, which goes, Big John has a problem that you can plainly see, one minute he's 40, the next he's 33 and then he goes on to explain that Big John found a fountain of youth he drank a little drink and then that magic potion was the thing that made him shrink. He changes into an eight-year-old boy every week when he's not wanting to.

So, I'm hoping if I drink that water, which I never do at the restaurant anyway, that I will turn into an eight-year-old. Hold on. So, he turns into a little boy. How does he then turn back for next week's episode? He turns back again. It's not permanent. So, that is the danger. We're finding the fountain of youth. You think, oh, this is going to be great. I'm going to be young forever. But what Big John discovered was that he just turns into a little kid and has some adventures and then turns back again comedically in appropriate times.

And I would like that to happen to me. You don't need to, if you drink the fountain of youth water, then have to have some very old water. No. That would be good if he had to go and find the fountain of being 40 again. Yeah. It's just a very stagnant puzzle. It was my favourite show and during the change, it looked like one of the guys in the middle was Andy Kaufman, but I don't think it was. Right. But you'd see him change.

It's like big. It was very much like big, but before it's time, it was a great show. He would change and there would be loads of different versions of him until he gets to be an eight-year-old. Well, you'd just see the change and then he would become this eight-year-old kid. He didn't really look like the old man. The ones in the middle looked a bit like him. I'm trying to think what the guy was in, but I can't think what he was in. He was an actor you would recognise from sitcoms. It was poor, but seeing your magic, I would like to drink that as my water. That's a good choice.

That's fine. So, Richard, are you now eight for the rest of the meal? I will change to be eight years old and I wish I'd brought an eight-year-old kid with me tonight. So don't just drag out and do the middle bit, but at some point I will change. If you see me doing this, I'm about to change into an eight-year-old. If I drink the water, but I might not drink it. I don't really drink water in restaurants, so I don't care what water I have. If you suddenly pulled out an eight-year-old from your attic, I think we'd have other concerns.

Yes. He's in here. It comes out, swigging a non-alcoholic beer or whatever it is you've been feeding them all. So, you're going to have the fountain of water that Big John had, and you're not going to drink it until you want to turn into an eight-year-old during the meal. Well, it doesn't happen immediately anyway, so even if I did drink it, it wouldn't necessarily happen. You've got to know the show. It's pathetic that you two guys aren't old enough to understand. I wish I could give you a fountain of understanding 1970s children's television references, but I can't. But I'll drink a beer instead of...

How long does it take, Richard, for the water to start to work? I think it very well. He drank it when he was in the jungle somewhere, and I think he did. I mean, I don't know the show quite well enough to answer your in-depth questions, but I'm feeling nothing happened immediately, and then just the inappropriate moments he changed. I can't see there'll be an inappropriate moment in this. So maybe it'll kick in in the side dish. Yeah, I have another question. Did he live near the jungle, and so he can just go and get it whenever he wants?

What is this? No, he drank from it. I've said this, so he goes, Big John found the fountain of youth. He drank... I remember this from the 1970s. This is what I remember about the show. He drank a little drink, and that magic water is the thing that makes him shrink. Yeah, Big John, little John. So he just drank it once, and then what it did, rather than making him young, be careful what you wish for. You as a genie should know this, because the wish will act against you.

He didn't become immediately young. He found the fountain of youth, I think, by accident, and it didn't make him young. It just made him, at inappropriate moments, become a child, which no one wants. So his whole life is this yo-yo in between being 8 and 40, and he's got no... Like Big, except in Big, he stayed, didn't he? Yeah, he has no control over it. No, it's embarrassing for him. It's a great sitcom staple, I'm sure you... I'm amazed it hasn't come up more often.

Yeah, I like it. It's pretty good. Pop-a-doms or bread? Pop-a-doms or bread? Pop-a-doms or bread? Bread, please. Can I have... I would have pop-a-doms if it was an Indian meal, but I'm not having an Indian meal, but having pop-a-doms in any other meal would be slightly weird. Although the bread I want is a very specific kind of bread, and my memory of this bread is different than what actually happened.

I read my blog about it. I went to Tanzania to meet my friend who lived out there. He was in the foreign office, and he took me for a meal on the first night when I was jet-lagged in an Ethiopian restaurant in Tanzania. I've only been to Africa once. And my memory is that the whole table was covered... That your meal arrived, and there were no plates, and the whole table was bread. It was this flatbread, an Ethiopian flatbread. But having read my blog, it was like a bowl.

You had a bowl that was made of bread. But what I would like for the rest of the meal is Ethiopian flatbread. It's made out of a grain called... Now I'm going to put my glasses on to read this teff. I looked it up because I couldn't believe it was real. It was lovely. And it's a great way just to eat your meal. You can just scoop up the rest of your food. I'd like the rest of my meal on this table that is made of flat, unleavened bread from Ethiopia, please.

Is it the spongy bread? It's slightly spongy, but it's very flat. It's got little bubbles in it. It's like a pancake, really. But it was very big. And genuinely, I really feel I remember everyone just eating like a lady in the tramp kind of eating their way to the middle of the table and then it running out. But that didn't happen.

In your memory, the whole table was made of bread? The whole table was like a tablecloth of bread, which isn't what happened, but that's what I would like to happen. I would like a tablecloth on my table that goes down to the floor made of bread and then I can just mop up anything I'm eating for the rest of the meal with this bread. How many of you were at that meal? I would say there were six of us at the... No, four of us at the meal.

There were four. There might have been six of us. But honestly, I was so jet-lagged, I can't remember very much about it. It might not have happened. In your memory, at the end of the meal, all of you ate your way to the middle and all six of you kissed each other in a big kiss. Yeah. Accidentally, like Layton Trump was just sucking up the last bit. Oh, and then we kissed. I kissed Tony Brennan on the lips.

A six-way kiss, yeah. And that's what I would like to happen. But I'm eating alone, presumably. Am I eating with you, Ed? Is that the idea that we're... You're eating alone, so what would have to happen is you'd have to eat your way into the middle of the table and then just have a wank. Well, I'd definitely do that.

But I could use the overhanging bread. It's very absorbent, so it would be a useful way to clear up any mess. I'm not encouraging any wanking during this. This is a man who could change to a child at any moment. I don't want any of that happening, please. It's only a problem if you start wanking as you're changing and you start off on the way back up, isn't it? Please. It's fine.

No, it's not fine. It's not fine, Richard. It's still you. It's still you, isn't it? The bread is called injera bread. There we go. Oh, is it? OK. It's been chosen before. It's been at least mentioned before on the podcast. Marcus Samuelson, I believe, mentioned it

and how much he loves it. I love that bread as well, which is a place in Brixton Village called Habisha Village. And they do amazing injera bread. It is so good. It's kind of got a vinegary kind of quality to it as well. It's quite sour, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was good.

It was an amazing meal from what I recall, but all I recall is the bread tablecloth that wasn't there. Yeah. So that was the jet lag kicking in. We're quite happy to make the whole table out of that bread. I think that's fair. It's bubbly. It's sort of like the arrow of breads. Yes, that is fair. That is fair.

I reckon it'd be quite easy to make. I think it's going to be... You know, I haven't looked into the recipe, but it's got to be pancake-like. I can make pancakes, so it can't be too... I can make a rudimentary loaf of bread now. I've started to try and cook bread. If I was going to have, like, the bread you get in a UK restaurant,

I like those kind of... When you get a warm bun and butter with lots of salt on top of it. That's what I like. You're not having that, though. You're having Ethiopian bread. I'm having Ethiopian bread made out of whatever it is. Tiff Stevenson. What? What?

What?! Swat, it's James. Oh, no. Now you've ordered bread made out of UK comedian Tiff Stevenson. Oh, no. And that has to stick, right? No, that wasn't my first wish. You can only take my first wish. Yes, that's true. Yeah, first wish. Done. Well, let's move on to your starter in that case,

before you start eating our comics. Yeah, well, I struggle with the starter. I really, really like starters, so I like lots of starters, but I sort of feel with this show... Yes! Another starter boy! Yeah, I mean, I would like three starters, but I can't pick one very easily. And I feel with this show, you've got...

You know, you've got a genie to conjure up anything you want from any time in history. I'm not going to choose, like, Wagamama, the calamari, which is very nice, because I can go and get that anytime I want. No, no, you can't. Well, not as your rights. You have my complacency as they hit me in the face. What I would like, as an unusual starter,

is a pack of kettle crisps, salt and vinegar flavour from the 1990s, and a packet of kettle crisps, and I know people call them chips, but I call them kettle crisps, from now, so that I could compare the two and find out if they've changed or I've changed, because I used to think they were the best crisps in the world. And I'm convinced they've changed.

But maybe I've changed. Richard, it's how little preparation you've done for this podcast that you're now just doing material from your own one. But I've got the chance to answer that question. So, I would like to have salt and vinegar kettle crisps from the 1990s, and then, for comparison, and I'm going to do this later again, because I'm going to use time travel a lot in this... I would like a packet now, and I would like to find out if I'm right or wrong.

I think they used to be a lot more crinkly and a lot more... ...uniform, a lot more baked. I think they're flat now, they're not as tasty as they used to be, I'm sure. But have I changed or have they... Which is it? I was going to say, is it your favourite crisp? Or the 1990s one, is it your favourite crisp? Well, in the 1990s, I thought it was amazing. I love crisps, and they're not really a starter of a proper restaurant.

I agree with this, but I've loved all kinds of monster munchies, all the way through frazzles, everything. Salt and vinegar crisps, Golden Wonder was my choice as a youngster. When I first came across kettle crisps, whenever that was, it felt like a kettle crisps and its trivial pursuits. When they came across that, it was like something I'd never experienced in my life before, and it was life-changing. And I can't believe I've changed so much that that crisp is today the same one that blew my mind.

As what, I don't know when they came out, but I'm saying probably, I ate one in probably 1992 or something like that, and it blew my crisp mind. I feel like that whole monologue that you just did there is going to be the last thing you say when you're in your deathbed and your brain starts misfiring and just throwing out random stuff. You're going to start saying monster munchies. I like salt and vinegar crisps. I listen to what crisps you like.

And then I think I like kettle crisps. They're called kettle crisps. I'm like, that's going to be the last thing you ever say. It might be happening now. This might be just what's happening in my brain right now, is I've been about to die and I think I'm talking to two men whilst the country is cut down by a virus. But in fact, I'm just dying and vaguely remembering something I've talked about.

Here's why I'm angry, Richard. You drew me in and said you were a starter boy. Of all the starters in the world, you picked two bags of crisps. The same crisps from different times does not start. It's a snack. I couldn't choose. I couldn't choose. I like a Thai sharing factor.

What do you mean you couldn't choose? I couldn't choose a starter. I love all the starters equally. So you picked none? I did. You could start with some crisps. It depends what meal you're having. If you're in a pub, you could have a few crisps.

If you're in someone's house, you could have someone's house to go, hey, have some crisps. We haven't got official starters. Have a kettle crisps. I've kept it back from 1919. I've got a kettle crisps from now. Test them both and see what you think. That has never happened that anyone has been at a dinner party at someone's house

and anyone has ever used the phrase, we don't have any official starters. Please have a bag of crisps. Look, it's a nibble with a drink before the meal. No one said we don't have official starters. Not in this case. It seems like a pretty good starter to me. I think it'd be nice.

Just a few crisps. You're definitely Papadoms or bread. Papadoms is just a big crisp. Yeah, not as a starter, though. You could have picked the crisps instead of Papadoms or bread. I was going to have Papadoms as my starter. I was going to have bread as the bread of Papadoms, and then Papadoms as my starter.

That was my other choice. Because I like Papadoms. But I prefer to choose bread between the two. So I can have both. Have Papadoms changed since the 90s, Richard? Papadoms, yeah, they've got better since the 90s. So that's what they're more. The Papadoms scientists and chefs have worked hard and perfected it.

That's why it's unusual for something to get worse, isn't it? Yes. And I don't look back. And they've started putting little spicy bits in some of them and little seeds in some of them. They never did that when I was a youngster in Cheddar, with all the Indian restaurants we had. So, you know, yeah, most things improve.

That's why the Kettle Crisp Mystery, I think, is worth forgoing any starter. There's no starter I care enough about in the world. But also, you've got the fountain of youth water on the table. So you're comparing these two crisps from different eras, and at any point, you could change into a little boy. And then you could find out if your palate was different then. It's kind of the ultimate test, to be fair.

Well, I suppose the danger is I change just as I'm eating the crisp, and then I'm impressed by the crisp because I'm young again. Yeah. And then I don't know whether it actually is better or not because the stupid young me is going, this is the best crisp I've ever had. Yeah. The eight-year-old me would fucking...

He would love that. He would love that. That's true. Kettle Crisp. He would love it. Are you going to dip them in anything? They're all right with a bit of hummus, but if you do that, I won't know what the taste is.

If I put hummus in, you go, oh, that taste of hummus, that's nice. Excellent point. But no, I just would like... Oh, yeah. I thought this was my dream restaurant. We wouldn't want this to taste nice, Richard. It's an experiment.

It's my dream restaurant. Yes. If I went to Heston Blumenthalts, they'd squirt some air into my mouth that changed into liquid, hit the back of your throat or something, and you'd go, oh, that's not starter. I'm having a solid bit of critters, a solid thing made out of potato.

Yeah. Beautiful sort of vinegar. Is that what happened to you when you went to Heston Blumenthalts' restaurant? It is something. You said, shut your eyes. Shut your eyes. And I'm going to shoot something into your mouth.

It's a gasp. It'll become liquid on the back of your throat. Bain course. Yes. Well, I'm not sure if this is allowed, but again, this isn't a meal I've ever had. Yeah. But why hate is when people go on desert island disks

and choose their eight favorite records. That's not what desert island disks is about. You should choose your eight records that would best help you survive on a desert island. OK, that is what I believe. So probably the first one should be a record of someone just saying how to survive on a desert island, a record of someone saying how you build a raft

when they set it to music or felt. It's not about choosing your eight. It would be called what are your eight favorite records, wouldn't it, if that's what it was about? Yeah. So why do people go on and go, oh, my favorite record is the Beatles? No, mate.

What would record would you take to a desert island with you? So I'm not choosing anything I've ever eaten. My main course, I would like to... I thought I'd like to go back to medieval times and eat what, like King Henry VIII. Yeah. Like, eat a proper medieval meal because I've got a genie who can go through time

and bring me what I want. But then what I thought is what I want for my main course is four and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie. Oh, my God. But vegans is OK. The blackbirds survive the experience and when you open the pie, they begin to sing. Richard, just before everyone starts logging off,

we should probably quickly say why we're doing this. Yeah. We're doing this for the Stay At Home Festival. Yeah. And this is to raise money for performers and people in the arts who've had their livelihoods destroyed by what's going on at the moment.

Yes. There should be a link on the video of how to chuck in a tip, how to donate. You should. It's not going to us because, look, we're doing great. We're sat in our rooms listening to Richard Herring give one of the worst menus I've ever heard enough of.

So donate now. We're occasionally chipping and saying donate. But if you're enjoying it, why not throw some money in? And now back to Richard's main course, which was... Four and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie, alive. Baked in a pie, you open the pie, the birds aren't dead and they begin to sing. I want that.

I want the blackbirds trained to survive being in an oven and then not be upset by the experience so they're happy with it. OK. They've chosen this life and then when they're cut open, they avoid the knife and they are so happy that they sing. So, OK, I've got so many questions.

When you cut the pie open, do they fly out? Well, I mean, they don't in the nursery room, do they? But in the thing it's based on, I looked this one up and there is a medieval recipe to make a pie that the birds may be alive in and then fly out. So I would... They could fly out and you do that by creating a false bottom in the pie

which is full of flour and then you cut the bottom out and then there's room for the birds to go inside. I don't think you then cook it and then you open it and it's a nice surprise for your guests. It's not exactly what I want because I want them to sing, not fly.

What will they sing? Well, they're just... I mean, they're not going to... I mean... They'll probably just sing a blackbird song. I'm not going to go to the extent of training the blackbirds to sing a popular song. A blackbird song?

Well, they could sing... They could sing Blackbird by the Beatles if you want. But no, I think they should just cheer up as a blackbird would. I can't believe you're annoyed by the question what would the blackbirds sing as if that's insane. They would sing. They would just sing. Blackbirds can just...

They're not mimics. They can't sing popular hits. Richard. We're in the real world here. The whole dish is impossible. You've asked me for my genie powers to make it possible and I can. So I could also sing whatever you like.

Okay. I'd like them to sing... Dick de Lieber by Schubert. Or Schuben, I forget which one it is. The entire German song cycle of Dick de Lieber. Dick de Lieber? Are you happy now? Yeah.

Yeah? Yeah? Because I used to sing that when I was a young man. It would remind me of that. I'd choose that for Dead's Island disc because it's a really long record. It's quite boring. So...

If you're not eating the blackbirds because they're surviving and singing to you, is your main course essentially a pie crust? Yeah, with some bird shit in it. I'm guessing the birds are going to shit. I don't think I'd eat it, which is why my side dish is quite important. So you're not going to eat your main course?

No, I just want... That's what I want to be... I told you what I wanted in my podcast, which was the lobster I had when I had a terrible experience in the Barbados and my testicles swelled up. I'm not going to go through that story again. I went on holiday with a woman who got engaged to someone else the day before we went on holiday.

We're not going to do that story again. That's what I would have if I was going to eat it. But I want a spectacle to go with my side dish, which is a quite hefty side dish. Yeah. Oh, I imagine your side dish is bananas in pajamas or some shit. Why would I not have a genie

and not do something amazing? Why get Nando's... You know, get Nando's second hottest sauce with half a chicken? I can go and get that when the war's over. I'll get it. I think it's nice to have some fictitious answers for once. Here's what I want to know, though.

You open the pie and they all begin to sing. Because this is visual, and normally we don't have a visual one, would you be able to show us how you would react to it while they're singing to you? I would. I'd be eating my side dish. I'd be like this.

I'd just go... I'd be mildly impressed by it. I've heard the nursery. Yeah, I'm not going to be that impressed. Those poor blackbirds, they get baked in a pie and basically you have to sit in a sauna for an hour and a half or whatever it is. And they finally fly out to do their song

and all they get is 90s comedian Rich Herring going... Reflected. Just reflected in his mind on the experiment he did a minute ago with kettle crisps. I think it was. Because the whole point of the big revelation when they used to do that was it was to surprise the guests. You've made this and then it's not going to surprise you at all, is it?

No. I'm just going to look at it. I'm going to look at it and I'm going to say the blackbirds to be honest, that wasn't as good as I expected. How about this, though? What if, by then, you've turned into an eight-year-old, you've forgotten that you've ordered that and when that happens, your eight-year-old self doesn't remember it.

Can you show us what that would look like? Yeah, it's going to be... How did the blackbirds survive the oven? That's good. How would you feel about this, Richard? What if the blackbirds sing, fly out, they have some of the youth water and then they turn into little hatchlings

and eggs in front of you? That would be amazing. It would be good if they become eggs. They're flying and they become an egg and then it would be then splat on the ground and die, be spectacular. I want that to happen. And then what face would you make then?

LAUGHTER With that. I can't wait to release this as an audio episode. It's four and 20, not 24. I want four and 20, not 24. OK. That's very important. Is there anything else in the pie that you could maybe use to give the crust some flavour?

Is it like a pork pie, maybe? No, it's a blackbird pie, nothing in it, and I'll be using the bread tablecloth to scoop up the pastry and then eating a sort of sandwich with crust in the middle of it, like old-fashioned crust as well, which I imagine is really thick. You're going to have a dry Ethiopian bread pie crust sandwich.

Yeah, that's what I'm going to have. But I've got a side dish which will sort everything out. My side dish is a jacket potato, but it's a very specific one. It's the jacket potato that I used to... That I would love to get. I want to taste this again. I don't want to taste something that I can taste now. I want to taste something that is lost and I can't get back.

When I was in my last year at university, I was vegetarian, and we'd get drunk and everyone would have kebabs, and I couldn't have kebabs because I was vegetarian. The blackbird pie is vegetarian, the blackbirds are fine. And we'd walk down the high street, and there was one van there that sold baked potatoes, and what I would have is a jacket potato with coleslaw

and hot chilli sauce, and I'd get that and I'd take it home and eat it in my room on my own at two o'clock in the morning. And it was the most delicious thing I've ever eaten. I think there might have been something else in there as well, but I can't remember, but it was coleslaw and chilli sauce and maybe some garlic mayonnaise or something like that. There was another ingredient.

It sounds like the wettest food I could possibly imagine. That's okay. It was so delicious, I can't tell you. Everything else has been pretty dry so far, to be fair. He said, in German bread there's nothing, crisps, pie crust. So far, the meal is just dry bread, dry crisps and dry pie crust. And now finally, we have this sludgy jacket potato that has, how creamy is the coleslaw? Well, I can't remember.

All I remember is it tasted, it was the most amazing thing I've ever tasted and I would like to taste it again now to check whether I've changed or it has changed. I don't think it's there anymore. It came in a polystyrene thing. I don't want it on a plate. I want it in a polystyrene egg shell cut thing that opens up. And it would all melt.

Maybe there was some cheese in there. It would all just, on the journey home, it would all coagulate into an awful mush. And that mush was just the most delicious thing I've ever had. And it was one place, one time. I did have it a few times, but, you know, you can't get that back and only you, James A. Kester, can recreate that for me and let me know what was in it.

Yeah. Richard, here's how you can get that back. You can literally make what you just said. It is the easiest possible thing to make. It's a jacket potato with coleslaw chili sauce. And there's so many types of coleslaw. There's so many ways to make coleslaw. There's so many ways.

There's so many ways to make chili sauce. And I could try it and I would never recreate what that was. And it was the gestation period of the walk home. It was probably a 25-minute walk home. Fine, you know that, so do that. I don't know what was in it. I can't remember exactly what was in it. I want to find out what was in it.

Have you ever tried? No, because I don't know what was in it. I just want to taste again that amazing thing. What was the establishment called if I'm going to get you this? It was a van and there was a man in it. And he sold jacket potatoes. It was outside. I'd like to say it's near Teddy Hall.

It wasn't quite outside Teddy Hall in Oxford. It was just up the road from Teddy Hall. Is that Queens College? I don't even know what the names of colleges are. It was outside there. It was, you know, it was a happy and simple time where a jacket potato would make you delighted. Yeah.

And that would be it. That's how I would eat that as the best... Teddy Hall. Teddy Hall. Teddy Hall sounds like something you made up when you were eight. Is this because you're changing now? Is the change starting to kick in so you're saying things like Teddy Hall? Maybe.

There he is. Now, I'm going to say something controversial now. It might be controversial. I hate jacket potatoes. OK. They're so boring. Not when you put coleslaw and chilli sauce in them, they're not my friend. They're a vehicle for something else.

Just have some coleslaw and chilli sauce. It's going to be horrible. And then you get the potatoes really boring. It's like a big, boring rock. Not when it's well-cooked. And you need a very crispy. I love a crispy, slightly overcooked jacket potato where it's like eating a giant crisp.

Oh, fuck it out. Here we go. He's getting rid of all the inside. And then you've just got the crisp on the outside. Honestly, fuck you didn't pick poppadoms. Your mouth would have been shreds by now. I like jacket potato. I think it's nice.

I don't like this argument. A lot of people have for a lot of foods where they go. It's just a vehicle for other stuff. All food, really. It is. All food is like you have to... For most meals, you have to combine all the stuff. You don't eat everything as its own individual little ingredients.

They have to combine with stuff to enhance each other's flavours and bring stuff out. Yeah, but that's not what the jacket potato is doing. The jacket potato is not enhancing the flavour of anything. It's just like a big, hot, edible plate. But it's getting enhanced. You put the other stuff in there and the jacket potato starts to come to life.

Also, I like mashing up all the stuff in the jacket potato. Having the skin there and then putting a big load of butter in the skin and then just putting the skin and the butter in my mouth and eating that. I like that too. Yes. You've got to cook them.

They've got to be hot. They can't be greasy. Like thin papery on the outside. They've got to be burnt. Yeah. So it's hard crust. Like Brian Bless's foot, it's basically got to be. That's what you've got to be eating.

Like the skin on the bottom. Why don't you just put loads of coleslaw in a glove? Because you can't eat a glove. And the potato is delicious. If there's a right amount of salt, butter, all those things in there, you've got to have a little bit of that mixed up. Honestly, I've never had anything as good again.

My life is net. When I was 21, that was as good as my life got. I'm 52 now. Still waiting for that baked potato. I think the narrative of a lot of your shows I've seen has been, my life's never been as good as it was then. Yeah. Well, we all sit there going,

I don't know, this is pretty good, Richard. No, this is shit. Well, I think that's a nice side dish. And we haven't had jacket potato before. Thank you. Because you don't know the specific name of this place though, I think we should have to put all the ingredients you mentioned in the jacket potato.

So the coleslaw and the hot sauce, but also the garlic mayonnaise, and did you say cheese? Yeah. You said cheese at one point. There might be some cheese. There would have been butter in there, I'm sure. Yeah.

So all those things. I think it was like, it's difficult, isn't it? Because you're drunk when you get the order of this stuff, and also nearly everywhere you go, they squirt like garlicy mayonnaise and all those different things. But I think there was garlic mayonnaise and chili sauce in it. I think that was quite, those are the important ingredients.

Okay. I could do without the coleslaw, to be honest, if that was even in it. And do you want it in the box? Polystyrene, yellow, polystyrene. I don't even like polystyrene. Yeah. It's one of my fears is factored polystyrene,

but I want it in polystyrene, so I'm frightened of it. I don't like the sound that polystyrene makes it. Don't look surprised at me. No, I agree with you about the polystyrene, but then it's your dream meal. Why are you wrapping your main cork in a fear? That's when it came in.

And so you just got to open it carefully and then I'm used to knife and fork carefully on it if that's how you're choosing to eat it. Oh, yeah, I'd like a fillet steak, please, but I'd like a clown to spit it into my mouth. I like a little danger. I like a little jeopardy in my meals, Ed. What can I say?

My brother kept one of those boxes in his car for months because he loved the smell of it because it reminded him of a good burger he had called the Triple Burger. Fucking hell! He'd driven me to a gig that went really badly. I was at an open spot and he drove me to this gig in Mansfield and I went on it, went awfully, but in the interval

he went out and there was this burger van and he got a Triple Burger, which was literally one burger bun with three burgers in between. And that was it. That was all it was. And he loved it. And then he ate it in his car. And when we went home, the thing was still in the bag.

And then weeks later, I got in the car, I was like, a Triple Burger box still there. He still smells like the Triple Burger. And he kept it in there. And it's a little memento. It's like a Mr. Ben memento. Sorry, another 70s TV children's reference, but you've got something there to remind you of what went by.

If you just have a plate, it gets washed up, doesn't it? If you have a polystyrene thing, you can leave that in the foot well of your car or just under your bed. You always remember the lovely meal you had. Sad end to the story, though. He had to, his car, it failed its MOT or something and he had to just leave it at the garage

and he forgot the Triple Burger box and he only realised when he got home and was like, oh, no, I left the Triple Burger box in there. Can we rewind quickly, Richard, because you talked up this jacket potato and then what sort of went under the radar just then is you went, I can take or leave the coleslaw. I don't even know if it was in it.

I can't remember what was in it. I just remember it was not. I was drunk. I just wanted to see, I want to just be 21 again. Just make me 21 again. No, you see this whole thing. I want to travel towards Big Eight, but stop it at 21 and be 21.

And relive everything that's happened since then. Can you do that with the fountain of youth water or do you have to sort of make yourself sick as you approach 21? I reckon you could. He never thought of that, that would be... Just spit a bit of it out. Yeah.

Keep something in your cheek and then as you're slowing down, it's like a time machine, the film where he's just trying to, the girls in the window, the shop dummy, he's just... Just precisely stopping where you want to stop. I want to stop outside that kebab van.

Your favourite drink. Your dream drink. Before you do that, I'm just quick, quick shout out again. Yeah. Chuck some donations into the State at Home Festival, Cosmic Shambles Network. There should be a link there.

I think you can give like a quid. You can give two quid. You can give upwards of that. Ten grand. Whatever you've got, if you can give ten grand, if you've got that and you want to give it, look, if you can afford to give something,

give something because it's a good cause and we're having a laugh. That's nice. Yeah. Give some money. Yeah. Come on, Richard. You're really good at getting people to give money.

I am usually better than us. Hey, come on, guys. Look, if you've got some... If you haven't got any money, let's enjoy this rubbish for free. If you have got some money, put some money in. If you're working,

if you've got some money saved up, help people out. Come on, guys. Yeah. We've got to get through this together. Sorry. Carry on with the meal now. My drink...

I think what I would like... The thing that... My favourite drink is the beer you have on holiday, the local beer that you have on whatever holiday you're on, that you drink when you're on holiday. But then when you come home and drink it, it's not as good. Yep.

I would like to have the local beer that I drink on holiday, but be able to drink it here and it is as good in this restaurant. Great. That's what I would like. I think we can all get on board with that, Ed. Yeah. Yeah, I'm totally on board with that.

That is a great observation and a great answer. Thank you very much. At last, we've got there. The first time this happened, I did drink this beer for a long time, which was the Czech Budweiser Budvar. I went to Czechoslovakia in about 1994, when it was like, you know, 50p for two pints of this stuff.

So I got heavily into it. It was never as good when you weren't on holiday with a girl that you were in love with as when you got home. But so, yeah. Every time you go to like... And Budvar's quite a good beer, so I would still drink that. But whenever you go to, like, a beach resort,

there's always some lovely, amazing beer, and then you track it down, and then it's just... It's not the same as... Yeah. It's a tough thing. It'd be nice if you could somehow hold on to the magic of that...

Of the holiday beer. Mmm. And that's a no beer that I think I've had not on holidays as good as a holiday beer. Why? Yeah. I would like to experience a beer like that that tastes as good as a holiday beer.

Like, I drink a Peroni on holiday. I'm drinking a Peroni now. Yeah. And it's not that night. It's pretty horrible. But in Italy, the Peroni is really nuts. Yes. So, it's just capturing that thing.

And it's weird, though, because you would think on holiday you don't need to drink alcohol, because you're relaxing anyway. But maybe it's something to do with that. Maybe it's to do with the level of relaxation. It means that you can enjoy it. Maybe it's just falsely thinking

that if you're drinking something and it's sourced locally, it's better. I don't know. Maybe they'd send the bad stuff out as export. Who knows? It's just guilt-free, right? On holiday?

You know, on my holiday, it's fine. And so, you can just enjoy whatever, you know, fatty foods, desserts, drinks. Just do whatever you like. It's fine. I'm not exercising. But it doesn't matter. I'm on my holiday.

Here, in the real world, everything you put in your mouth, you're like, oh, I hate myself. I really need to sort my life out. What am I doing? Drinking a beer in my goddamn living room. Oh, God, Jesus Christ. James, if you feel like that

when you put some fatty food or have a beer, you must feel like that almost 24 hours a day. Yep. Why else do you think I must start a comedian, my man? How much are you drinking during this lockdown, James? Are you drinking every night? No. For the first, until lockdown was announced,

I didn't have anything. So, I was like about a week and a half in a self-isolation and wasn't drinking. Lockdown was announced. I was like, cheers. I had one. I've probably had a drink a night since then. Last night, I didn't have anything.

Tonight, I wasn't going to have anything. But as soon as you said that holiday beer anecdote, I thought to myself, I'm definitely having something after this. Same here. Are you locked down on your own, James? No. So, you're in the...

No, I'm here with my pen pal. Jason McKenzie. You should explain what's happened with Jason McKenzie, James. Yes. I've had a pen pal called Jason McKenzie for some time now. And me and Jason McKenzie decided to meet up the day before all this kicked off. And he was here anyway.

He was a long journey home. And so, he has stayed here with me. And me and Jason McKenzie, who was 58 years old, are self-isolating together in lockdown together. How long have you been... How long were you pen pals for? When did the pen pal relationship begin? Been pen pals for about 20 years now.

So, like, I was 15. When he was 38 or something. Yeah. When he started. He didn't tell me that straight away. Yeah. He said he was 50. But eventually, it came out.

And he was on his way. But now we're... When you say... When you say he's traveled a long way, do you want to let Richard know where Jason McKenzie's from, your pen pal? London. Jason McKenzie is from the other side of London.

To me, I'm in South London. Jason McKenzie lives in North London. And I wanted to get a pen pal. That's a long way. Yeah, yeah. I didn't always live in London. But now I do. And my view of it has been

that me and Jason McKenzie just have all of London covered between us. We can let each other know what's going on in the north, what's going on in the south. Paid a little visit. And now, here we are. Good.

Well, I'm glad there's someone there for you. Jason, I was worried about you on your own. Yes. Don't worry, it's all good. Me and Jason McKenzie are together. Eddie, are you cohabiting? Yes, I'm cohabiting with my fiance. Our wedding got postponed, Richard.

Oh, that's terrible. Yes, Ed got cold feet. Ed got cold feet and cancelled. The virus has really helped me out here. It was a narrow escape. But we have rescheduled it, so I've got time to build the relationship. Good, yeah.

I mean, there's nothing like being trapped in a flat with someone to make you find out if you really love them. That's sort of what marriage is about. You should really get trapped in the flat before you get married, so you're doing it the right way around, because you'll discover if you've made a terrible, terrible mistake or not.

Congratulations, Ed. Thanks, guys. Always nice when my pals are on board. And now we arrive at the dessert. My favourite course, however, I'm a little bit scared going into this. I mean, the drink has made me a bit more optimistic.

Oh, that's something we could all get on board. We could all love that. But so far, it has been a bit of a weird menu of stuff that doesn't exist. Dare you. It all exists. Everything exists.

I've just existed in the past. It's all in the past, as is this final one. I don't want to eat anything I can eat now. Yes. And this is something I would... This, again, this is something from my past that is genuinely my favourite. And you won't know what it is,

because it's called Bella's Pudding. And it's named after my grandma's friend, who's called Bella, not Pudding, Bella. She made this. She made... She's called Bella Pudding. She made a...

Now, I didn't like the top part of it. The top part was like meringue that you get on lemon meringue pie. I wasn't that bothered about that, right? But the bottom bit... You didn't like the top part of it. What are you doing, Richard? I didn't really eat the top part, but...

But in every course so far, there's been a bit that you don't want to eat of it. You sometimes have to put up with something you don't want to get to the thing that you really love. Not in your dream meal! You do! Well, I could say don't put the meringue on top. But it was this, like, set caramel dessert.

Like, not quite a mousse. I can't even describe what it is. My grandma could make it. Bella, presumably, could make it. I never met Bella. So my pudding comes in three parts, but all parts are Bella's pudding. I would like to have a Bella's pudding made by Bella,

which I never got to taste to see how my grandma did. I would like a Bella's pudding made by my grandma, which is the most delicious pudding I've ever eaten if you scooped up the meringue. And just like, really nice set caramel. Just, I love caramel, but it was just incredible. And I'd like the attempt that my mum and my sister did after my grandma was no longer making it,

which wasn't anywhere near as good. And I'd like to taste all three, blind-tasted, and work out and be able to identify which was which. It reminds me of my grandma, who's no longer with us. And it was a unique and amazing dessert. I like ice cream, especially. I love caramel stuff. And it was just amazing.

Like, cooked caramel, I think. Because it had meringue on the top, so it must have been cooked somehow. Was it like a creme caramel? Was it like a wobbly kind of, or was it like a toffee cinder block? What are you talking about? It was somewhere, it wasn't like, creme caramel is one of my least favourite desserts,

because I don't like the texture of it. That sort of weird texture that you get with creme caramel. It was more like a mousse, but it was not quite, it was sort of set, but you put a spoon in, you didn't have to dig, it would come, so it was mousse-like, but set like a C. It wasn't bubbles in it, I don't think. I think it was just this brown caramel.

Again, I don't really remember much about it, that's why I would like to have it again. So, through your courses so far, you've demanded different versions of the same thing to test, to see which is the best one. Look, I'm going to make the most of this opportunity. Do you not listen to the thing I said about desert island discs? I have the opportunity to travel in time,

to get meals that I've forgotten about, to get meals that I know I will never taste again. And people on here choosing bloody pizzas and McDonald's and Nando's? No! Bella's pudding, who else has chosen Bella's pudding? No one. It was the most delicious thing, and I'm not sure my grandma cooked all that much,

but I still remember her making this. It was Bella's pudding after Bella's pudding, and we loved it. When your grandma made it, would you scrape the top off and go straight to the bottom, or would you eat the top? I think I'd mainly eat the bottom. I would have a little bit at the top, but it's like... I like meringues. You know, it's that whippy kind of meringue,

rather than like the solid meringues. It wasn't like... My mum was very good at meringues. She's not very good at Bella's pudding. But, you know, you can't have everything. I can't have everything, any mother and a grandmother. It's a good metaphor for life, isn't it? Some of us are good at the meringue,

some of us are good at the caramel bottom. They are. And I would usually... The bottom bit was the bit I liked, but you had to have the top bit. Otherwise, it's not Bella's pudding. It's just some caramel. That's Richard's pudding, and no one wants that. I invented it.

You've got to nod to the inventor of the pudding. If it's called Bella's pudding, you can't go, Oh, sorry, Bella, I'm not eating half of that. You'd have to... I don't bother making it with that. But I would have... I'd have much preferred it if they didn't put the thing on the top. Do you know anything else about Bella, apart from her pudding? I don't know.

I don't know anything about... I googled Bella's pudding today, mainly. Wondering if anything would come up, but it didn't. A lot of some Italian restaurants came up. I don't know who Bella was. She's presumably dead now, because my grandma was 102 when she died. Wow.

And outlived all of her friends. And a little old lady didn't come up. I'd loved it if she'd just come up and gone rich. Just one last time. I've made you one last Bella's pudding before I go. Don't scrape the top off, you prick. Eat the top. Eat the horrible top. Maybe, like, Bella was a lady who had this amazing pudding

and wouldn't reveal the recipe, and then your grandmother killed her and stole the recipe off of her. That could be. It's like in that Inside Number 9 episode of The Magicians. It's like that. Yeah. It could be that.

Well, that could have happened. I hope so. My grandma was a very nice lady. Yeah. But it would be nice to think she had that sort of past that she was... It was worth it. It was that good. And I'll never eat it again.

But now I have a genie, so I can. Wow. No, I'm not going to have Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I can go to the fridge and get... I'm going to have this thing I can't possibly get except in a magic restaurant. Des Island discs. The fact you keep your ice cream in the fridge

is completely believable now. After talking to you about food for the last hour, it's very obvious that you keep your ice cream in the fridge. Thank you. My mother has just texted me saying... Yeah, how she did. I bet it was a caramel queen of puddings, is what my mum says.

Because a queen of puddings is like a dish that has meringue on the top. And then it's like... It's almost like a bit of everything, queen of puddings, from what I remember. And my mum thinks it's... I'm going to look it up and I'll let you know. It's a caramel.

Oh, yeah. I've looked it up, Richard. And the first recipe that comes up is Mary Berry's queen of puddings. Are you sure that Bella didn't change her name for showbiz reasons? Let's have a look. I will tell you if it's a queen of pud...

Oh, that doesn't look like it at all. No. Hold on. Um, no. I mean, that's got... Mary Berry's queen of puddings. That's not caramel inside there. That's some kind of fruit-compot thing in there.

Yeah. And it wasn't... It wasn't... Those are like proper meringues. This was like... When you have a lemon meringue pie, it's just that, like, slightly not set meringue. The meringue was horrible.

This is nothing like it. Okay. Nothing. Your mum. Your mum. I don't know if that's to your mum, but she can do one. I nearly said something rude of that.

If she thinks that the queen of puddings is Bella's pudding. Yes. I've looked how caramel queen pudding, and there's a lovely picture for a recipe of it there. I don't know if you can see that. Oh. Very delicious. Look at that.

I'm going to have a look at caramel. The meringue is somehow green. Yeah. That looks like the baked potato you have on your side. Caramel queen pudding. I've got the green ones come up. Yeah, that's not it. That's not it.

Just to let... Sorry. My future mother-in-law has just texted me saying that... I mean, and these are her words. She's told me it's called a gypsy pudding, which I don't think is acceptable. Josie Long mentioned that, and it's called something different now.

She mentioned that pudding. Yes. Look, I think you're being very rude to Bella. No, it's nothing like that. No. Yeah, that's... So Josie Long talked about the gypsy tart, which is from Kenny.

That's not a gypsy tart. No. There's no meringue on top of that. That's a pie. There's no crust in the Bella's pudding. It's like a set bit of gelatinous caramel, sort of lovely, delicious all, and a bit of horrible meringue on the top.

Richard, I've just got... None of these are close. I've just got a text from Jason McKenzie's mother, and they say it might be a banana split. Can you Google that? I'll Google it. I don't think it is that. I don't think it is that.

It might be that. I'll have a look. There was definitely no banana. No, that's not it, because that's a banana with chocolate and cream. I think people are commenting on the YouTube Live. I don't know if anyone else has a guess, and maybe our producer can let us know

if there's any guesses popping up. This is a great one. It's Bella's pudding. They would know it's never been made by anyone. It's another dessert that existed. I'd say, oh, can I have Queen of Puddings? Can I have an offensive, racist-named pudding named after Romani people, please?

It isn't. It's Bella invented it. She went to her grave without revealing the recipe. My mum and sister had to try and recreate it after my grandma got Alzheimer's and couldn't remember how to make it. And they died with Doris Hannan. Don't bring the mood down, Richard.

Caramel Queen of Puddings has a set breadcrumb base in caramel sauce and meringue on top. No! As in a lemon meringue pie. No! Didn't you hear a bit about the set bread base? Did you hear that? Did you hear me talk about bread base?

When I was going through what was in it? No. Is the caramel like treacle tart? Richard. No, it's like delicious. It was like, I can't quite remember. I wanted to see it again so I could get it again, but it was like a set caramel thing, not gloopy.

It was more like a mousse. Right. I think it was a cold dessert. I think it was a cold dessert. Like a lemon meringue but caramel? No, because lemon meringue has lemon in it and a biscuit-y base, doesn't it? It has a little pastry base.

There was no pastry, there was no biscuits. It was just pure, lovely, some kind of caramel, mousse-y thing with horrible meringue on the top. Richard, we've had some suggestions through from the YouTube Live. Let's see if any of these are right. Is it a roulade? Let me have a look.

Is it a roulade? I don't think it's a roulade. Is it a caramel meringue pie? Is it a pingu ice cream? Is it a cherry popsicle? Is it angel delight? It's more like angel delight than anything that anyone else has said.

So, except it's not as bubbly as angel delight and it isn't angel delight. Though angel, I used to like make, I used to make like a whole chocolate butterscotch and eat it all myself when I was 14. It was great. Do you ever do that? No. Okay.

We're going to have some common ground there. A whole big bowl of it. Lovely. No, it's none of those things. It's Bella's pudding and there's no-one has ever, if anyone could create that in recipe now, there would be a billionaire. Okay, even though the top bit's shit.

Just keep the top bit off. Just keep me off. Just keep me off. But eat the bottom bit. What's your problem? Is that too much work for you? Bella's pudding. I'm not going to go back to Bella and go,

no, sorry, Bella. The bottom bit's great but fuck, what have you done with the top bit? You've ruined it. She's made her pudding. It's named after her. It's her one achievement. A middle-aged old lady probably died in 1975.

We're still talking about her though, aren't we? We're still, we're not talking about your grandma's friend, are we, James A. Kester? Yeah, absolutely right. We're not talking about any of my grandpa's friends. But this day, we're still talking about her. Yeah. So, your water.

You wanted the water from Big John Little John. Yeah. Pop it on your bread. You picked injera bread and you'd like the whole table to be made of it. Yes, please. Another whole table, like a tablecloth, weren't I?

Starter. Sort of in the kettle crisps from the 1990s and sort of in the kettle crisps from today so you can eat and compare them. That's the starter. Main course, four and 20 black birds baked in a pie. The birds survive and start singing. Side dish, jacket potato from your last year of university

with pole slaw, chili sauce, garlic mayo and cheese from a van in Oxford. You can't remember exactly where it was from. It may or may not have had any of those ingredients in it. Your drink, you would like the holiday beer, but it tastes like holiday beer when you're at home. And drink, you would like three of Bella's puddings, one made by Bella, one by your grandmother

and one by your mum or your sister. You can taste them and compare them yet again. And one of every suggestion that everyone's made so I can discount them as being the real thing. Yes. So like about 10,000 desserts. Yeah, you'll also have a caramel queen of puddings, a gypsy pudding, a roulard, a caramel meringue pie,

a pinguise cream, a cherry popsicle, an angel delight. And I think it was a banana split. Yeah, I'll have all of that. A banana split's nice. Excellent. Yeah, you can have all those things. That'll take the taste of meringue out my mouth. A banana split.

We have crashed the donations website. I don't know if it was us personally or the donations website has just crashed. So if it's not working at the moment, do set an alarm for tomorrow and give a donation for what you've just watched. And also keep watching stuff. Keep donating if you can.

We'd love to get a bit more money in. And thank you very much for watching. Thank you very much, Richard, for coming into the Dream Restaurant. Thank you, Richard. I loved it. Thank you for having me. And thank you, everyone, for watching out there. Bye-bye! Goodbye!

Well, there we have it. I think that went pretty well for our first-ever live streamer, James. Oh! I really got the adrenaline pumping. Being live, man. Ah, the rush of the crowd, the frill of the room.

Ah, man, live performance. Woo! It was really odd because I've never really live-streamed anything like that before. And it feels very lonely when you're just sat in a room by yourself saying things, but then also very odd to think that... I think we had about 5,000 people watching the live stream

as it went out. Thank you if you're one of those people. But a very weird feeling. Ah, a lot of them. They were outside my flat. I looked out the window. They were all there. Yeah, that's actually the opposite

of what we were trying to do, yeah. Stay at home, you guys! Please! Because it was part of the Stay At Home Festival. It was to raise money. It was to raise money for artists who'd been hit hardest in this time. And if you want to donate,

we'd love you to donate if you can. James, you know the website, let's hear it. Oh, yes, I do. CosmicShambles.com forward slash Stay At Home. That's the one. Well done, Richard, as well, for not saying yoghurt. Yeah, well done, Richard, for not saying yoghurt. And actually, Ed, while we're promoting websites,

a friend of mine would like me to promote MackenzieArtsAndCrafts.co.uk.org. OK, so go and check out that. What sort of things can you find on there, James? Oh, just some arts and crafts that a colleague of mine likes to make at home and is trying to sell to make a little money during this time. It's a big, big old crisis.

A lot of people have been hit hard. Before this, he wasn't into arts and crafts, but he's really found a knack for it lately. I really recommend going on and buying some trinkets. It's really, really great stuff, really top quality stuff. So there you go. For all your trinkets and needs, you can go onto the MackenzieArtsAndCrafts website.

Thank you very much for listening. Oh, Richard nearly said yoghurt, by the way. I messaged him off to tell him it was yoghurt, and he said he nearly went there. So we were very, very close. Off menu will be coming out as normal on Wednesdays. This is just a little bonus episode. Perhaps we might do some more bonuses in the future.

So get donating if it's successful enough. We might do some more. Yeah, why not? I tell you what, definitely not going to do anything if this one isn't successful. I'm not following up a flop. No way. But for now, that was the off menu menu of Richard Herring.

Thank you very much for listening. Goodbye. Goodbye. Hello, it's me, Amy Glentill. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu, where I spoke to my mum and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato, and our relationship's never been the same since.

And I am joined by... Me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread. I'm not going to spoil it in case... Get him on, James and Ed. But we're here sneaking in to your podcast experience to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News.

It's about all the new stories that we've missed out from the north because, look, we're two Northerners. Sure, but we've been living in London for a long time. The new stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes. It's all kicking off. And that's a new podcast called Northern News we'd love you to listen to.

Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glentill's mum on every episode. That's Northern News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy! Is it? Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog.

You've left it so late.