Office Ladies - The Negotiation w/ David Denman
Episode Date: October 7, 2020This week we're breaking down The Negotiation, and we couldn't do this episode without an interview with the amazing David Denman. David shares his memories from this episode, saying goodbye to the sh...ow, and we get his take on a potential Roy and Angela relationship. Then, the ladies deep dive on the art of negotiation, chat about Daryl's negotiation strategy and Micheal's "ladies clothes". Finally, we get another Heartbreak In the Breakroom moment with a song brought to us by Josh Compton, we take a fun movie tangent, and we discuss that emotional scene between Pam and Roy. Follow us on instagram @officeladiespod If you have questions for an upcoming episode, visit https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion to file your question there, or email us at officeladies@earwolf.com
Transcript
Discussion (0)
I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together. And we're
best friends. And now we're doing the Ultimate Office rewatch podcast just for you. Each
week we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes
stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're The Office, ladies.
Hello, Angela. Hey, lady. It's very good to see your face today. Same. I feel the same
way. Oh, I said lady right out of the gate. Jenna, some people love the lady and some
people don't love the lady. I want to get a t-shirt that just says lady. Lady. All right.
What are we talking about today? Today we are talking about season three, episode 18,
the negotiation. It was written by Mike Sher and directed by Jeff Blitz. Those are two powerhouses
of comedy. Yes, this is a good team. Here is a summary. Angered by Pam's confession
that she and Jim shared a kiss, Roy tries to attack Jim in The Office. I mean, right out
of the gate. That's the first scene, everybody. Yeah. Jim is spared by Dwight's quick thinking,
aka pepper spray. Roy is fired and Darryl tries to leverage it into a raise. But upon hearing
how little Michael makes at his job, Darryl, Toby and Michael drive to corporate so Michael
can ask for his own raise. Roy takes Pam out for coffee to apologize and they break it
off for good. This is it. No more Pam and Roy guys. And then at the end of the show,
Jim catches Dwight and Angela kissing in The Office. It's a lot. It's a lot. Fast fact
number one, this episode was a super sized episode of The Office. And as a result, Angela,
I think, am I right? There are no deleted scenes for this episode. There are none on
the DVDs. Now, I don't know if there's some secret NBC archive somewhere, but there aren't
any that we know of. I think we used it all. It's all in there, guys. Now, here's a little
bit of a fact. This is a fact within a fact. I was going to say a little bit of a fact.
What's happening? This episode, like I said, was written by Mike Shor, who was nominated
for an Emmy Award for writing this episode. Oh, he should have won. Did he win? He did
not. Oh, boo. He lost to Greg Daniels, who won for Gay Witch Hunt. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
You're all right with that. You're like, all right. The Office won. Keep it in the family.
That's right. Yay. All right. Well, that was fun. All right. Well, now I'm going to give
you fast fact number two. In this episode, you remember Michael says that he got tips
on how to negotiate from Wikipedia. Yes. And some of the stuff that he says that he found
on Wikipedia is stuff like, you have to suddenly change the location or refuse to talk first.
Yes. Well, we had a fan question from Brianna Kernan, Zhu Yuang, Charlie Altman, Shay Quiz,
and Jeremy Sharp. They all asked, were the interview tips that Michael was using actually
from Wikipedia, or did the writers make them up? Okay. None of that stuff was on Wikipedia
for real. The writers just made that up. Yeah. I, you know, Jen, I did a mini deep dive on
the art of negotiation for this episode. And I can confirm because I went to the actual
Wikipedia page for negotiating. And those are not on there. Well, you know, after this
episode aired, there was a major stir. Really? Fans started going on to the negotiation page
of Wikipedia, and they started changing it to reflect Michael's advice. That's awesome.
I mean, not, I mean, don't, don't be hackers guys, but that's funny. And the administrators
at Wikipedia had to put the page in, I guess, what is called semi protection mode. And that
limits who's allowed to edit a page. So any user that had an account that was less than
four days old, or anyone who's trying to put a post up as anonymous, were forbidden. And
then they had other administrators who would go in and delete all of the fake negotiation
advice. That was just Michael Scott. Oh my goodness, you guys. But it was a whole thing.
They were like articles written about it in USA Today. Oh, wow. Yeah, it caused a stir.
Stirring it up office fans. I'm going through these quickly, Angela, because we have some
exciting news, which is part of fast fact number three. Yes. This episode marks the return
of Ed Helms as Andy Bernard. But it also marks the last regular appearance of Roy played
by David Denman. Now Roy will continue to come back now and then, but this really officially
ends the Pam Roy relationship. And we felt like we had to mark this occasion by talking
to Roy himself, David Denman. And we had so much fun talking to him. Sam, can you play
that interview? David Denman. Hello. Welcome to office, ladies. Hello, ladies. Hey, David,
it's so good to see you. Been a long time. It's been a long time. It has. Well, David,
we always like to start by asking our guests how they came to be on the show. My buddy,
who is an actor, a friend of mine in New York, he watched the British office and he called
me and said, dude, you've got to watch the show. It's amazing. You're going to love
it. There's nothing like it on TV. And I hear they're doing an American version. You've
got to try to get in on that. So I watched it and I was like, Oh my God, this is genius.
And there was, you know, a couple of guys, my age on the show, and I called my agent
and I was like, Hey, I hear they're doing an American version of the office. And he
goes, Yeah, yeah. And I go, I'd love to get in on that. And he goes, You really? You want
to do that? I go, Yeah, what do you mean? Because I don't know, they're looking for
improv comedians. And I'm like, Yeah, you know, I went to Juilliard. I did study improv
along with Shakespeare and many other things. It's not just because I didn't go to, you
know, improv Olympic or whatever. It doesn't mean I don't have an interest in that and
don't have that. My toolboxing is, Oh, okay. So he called over and all the parts were
cast except for Roy. And so I said, Yeah, I'd love to go in for that part. That little
thing changed my career.
Well, David, I remember that you were one of the very, very first people cast. You were
at our first original table read that Angela was not even at. They hadn't even filled out
the rest of the office. It was just Steve, John, Rain, BJ, me, Phyllis and you. That's
who was at the first table read. And I remember Alison Jones brought her Polaroid camera.
And she took a Polaroid picture for each of us because she said that's a tradition of
hers at table reads for actors at their for their first series. Do you still have yours?
I remember it slightly different. I know she brought the Polaroid camera. And she took
a picture for herself that she did on every table read of her first show. And you said,
Oh, I want one of those. This is another one and gave it to you. I don't think anyone else
has any of those photos besides those two.
Okay, that sounds like me. Thank you, David, because Jenna has talked about this. And thank
you for setting that straight.
Well, that explains why no one else has one but me. Yeah, maybe you should stop asking
that question, Jenna, to the original table read people.
Oh, my gosh. Well, David, I just remember meeting you and being so excited. And we had
that theater connection because I also got a theater degree. I just liked you immediately.
I immediately liked you. No, we definitely hit it off. It was what was fun about that
show in the beginning was you guys were all stuck in the office for hours and hours and
hours. And usually when you film a series, it's like, Oh, we'll shoot that scene. And
then we'll go shoot that scene. But because the way they filmed this with, you know, a
documentary style where they whipped the camera across the whole office, they needed everyone
to sit in the background all day long. So you guys would always be losing your mind
by the time I showed up on set. You were like, Oh, there's a new person. Hi. And you were
very enthusiastic every time I got there. And I was very grateful for it. You know, so yeah,
we definitely hit it off.
I do remember Jenna coming to set, though, and being like, guess what I did this weekend?
I was like, what? And she was like, I played poker with David. And I was like, what is
happening? Where are you guys? You guys are like hanging out. You're playing poker in
someone's garage. Like, what's this whole other life I need to get in on?
I know you never learned poker, Angela. You missed out on a lot. Well, you wouldn't want
me at your poker table. I mean, I, I mean, one time I played with, and I had like a pair
of threes and I thought I could win the whole thing. But I guess that's not, you know, I
don't know. I'm not good at it guys. Well, if we're playing for real money, we would
want you at our poker table.
No, you wouldn't because I'm the person that's like all in and everyone's like, wait, what's
happening?
I remember that like in rain's garage, like, and here we are in a little poker table. But
I remember I took down a big pot opposite you, Jenna, once and you lost your mind. You could
not believe that I, that I had beat you in that hand. I don't think I ever won another
hand against you, but that one just set the time you were just so limited that I'd beat
you. And do you remember that?
That's my fond memory. I feel like I would often get dramatic when I lost and wasn't
expecting it.
So, David, Jenna and I have talked a little bit how we give our characters backstories
like I would give Angela Martin reasons why she would react one way and Jenna has shared
her Pam backstory. And what was your take on Roy and Pam? Did you invent a backstory
for their relationship and for Roy?
Yeah, I did definitely have backstory. But I just, you know, I assume that these guys
met in high school, they started dating and, you know, they just kind of fell into this,
you know, this dynamic where neither one of them, well, definitely, I don't even think
Roy wanted to, you know, get married. Initially, I think it was just like, Oh, this is what
we're supposed to do next. And this was supposed to do next. And it wasn't until years later
that like, you know, when he was going to lose Pam that like he was like, Oh, I actually
care about this person and I have to put some work into this. And, you know, with any relationship,
you have to put some effort into it. And I don't think I don't think Roy was had ever
thought about that until it was too late. And I went to school with a bunch with some
like, a couple of meatheads that I sort of fashioned this guy after. I mean, I'm not
going to say who they were, but that's kind of where I saw Roy. And so I thought at the
time I was like, Oh, this will be a great way to make fun of those guys. And then the
next thing I know I'm playing these parts for the rest of my life. That's not all that's
entirely true.
Well, it's so funny because you, I mean, like knowing you, you're such like more of like
an intellectual creative.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
You're an outdoorsman though, like that part of Roy fits you. I think like, I mean, Roy
is jet skiing, but you know, you like the outdoors and stuff.
I do. I do like the outdoors. I mean, I go, I go out backpacking stuff like that. I don't
know if Roy is necessarily that he's more of like a, let's get my RV and my jet ski
and like hang out and drink some beers. Yeah. And, uh, and that's his, that's his outdoorsman.
Right. He's going to load up a four wheeler with a bunch of beer, probably make some bad
choices in the woods.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, David, I totally relate to how you can kind of fall into a casting rut because
I just did an interview yesterday and the person interviewing me said, so Angela, you
often play the heel. You're kind of a heel in everything. And I was like, um, yes, I
have sort of made a way of playing the bitch or the weirdo. It's kind of become my thing.
It's hard for people to see you outside of that box once you're in it. And, and then
like the success of the show has just continued on and on and on and on, which is fantastic.
It's more popular now than it ever was. And, uh, you know, if you're lucky enough to be
part of something that like people enjoy and get into and that's exciting. But when you,
to be part of something that gets into the culture of that is so rare and so impossible
to, to be a part of that, I'm constantly grateful every day that I got to be in a little part
part of this show. Cause that's, you know, very, very, very rare.
Yeah.
So David, at the beginning of season three, you came back to work and you were like super
fit. We all noticed, was this because you had done a movie roll over the summer and
they wrote it into the plot or did Greg get you aside and tell you this idea that Roy
should come back and be all like excited to win Pam back. And you sort of transformed
for the show.
It was all for the show, but it was, and it was a conversation with Greg. I wouldn't
say Greg said, Hey, go get in shape. But he did say, um, he did take me aside and said,
Hey, uh, I want, I got the, I'd like to make you more of a rival of Jim's next season.
And I said, really? And he goes, yeah. I said, how are we going to do that? I mean, we've
really made this guy such a knucklehead. I don't know how anyone's going to root for
Roy. And he goes, well, I think, I think, I think you can do something and make it work
when we can also, you know, write it. So, so we give them that opportunity. And I said,
okay, I said, well, I probably should get in a shape then. He goes, okay, if you want
to. And one of our camera operators who became a director, you know, our buddy Matt Sohn,
he was like, you should do the, this triathlon. And I was like, are you out of your mind?
I'm not doing a triathlon. I don't even, I barely run. I mean, he was like, you can
do it. I'm telling you, you can do it. And I'm like, no, no, man, that's never going
to happen. I mean, I, I, I played water polo in high school for like my freshman year.
So I was a pretty good swimmer. I wasn't worried about that, but I hadn't ever been on a bike.
And he was like, I know guys, I can get you a bike and like we should, you should just
do it. And, you know, it was like that conversation with Greg's idea of trying to make, you know,
Roy more of a rival, just kind of put it all into motion. And so I started training for
the Malibu Triathlon, which I ended up doing like 10, I did that for like 10 years, I think,
every year. And so many other people from the office got joined in on that. I don't know
if you, if either of you guys ever did it, but I never did it, but I remember this, David.
I remember a bunch of the guys on the crew and some of the women as well. Terri Weinberg,
right? Terri Weinberg is like so fit. She really went all out. I see her out there every
year. She still does it. You guys would come back with photos and it was incredible. Yeah.
And it was always the same weekend as the Emmys, which was like, go do the, go do the
triathlon in the morning and then go change and go to any party that night, which was
hilarious to me. I'm like, well, I would have loved to have done that, David, but Angela
doesn't think I have the athleticism. Now that's not true at all. Thank you. Say it
loud and clear for the office ladies audience, please. Yeah, I need to hear your support
for this argument. Okay. First of all, do you, you, Angela, you have to remember this
and I hate to put you on one point, but remember the year that Jenna decided to get into shape
and was like, and she was like, I'm doing it. I am doing it. And I'm like, good for
you. And she was on the cover of like shape magazine and a bikini and she looked phenomenal.
She looked phenomenal. David, here is what I'm saying to you. My argument is not that
Jenna cannot get into shape when she wants to get into shape. The woman is hardcore.
You know, she also made a mix tape called sounds of Scranton. She wrote a three page
document about the background of Pam. When she wants to get into shape by God, she gets
in shape. But could she do a cartwheel and a backflip and throw a grenade in the air
and then jump on a rope and swing across a parking lot? I've seen her carry a guitar
through an airport. David, I saw her try to get a guitar on a plane.
Okay. Look, I stand corrected in regards to, to getting a guitar on a plane or doing a
backflip to a parking lot, swing on a rope and I don't know, like, is she going to be
the next Laura Croft? Probably not. But this is my point. David, she could do a triathlon.
That's all I'm saying. I, listen, I didn't say she couldn't do a triathlon. Jenna jumped
in to give me shade and try to get you on her side. I think she could do a triathlon.
Whatever. I think she would be the team leader. She'd have everyone on a schedule. No doubt
she could do a triathlon. Whatever. Oh, Lord. Sass. We got some sass happening.
All right. Well, I have a question for this interview. I'm moving us along. David, in
general, do you have any favorite scenes from your time on the show? Anything you just loved
for any reason? I do have a moment that I remember specifically,
but it wasn't anything that was on camera. It was, we were shooting the booze cruise
episode. It was a long night. And the next morning, like we, as we were wrapping, they
had a pontoon boat and Steve and I jumped in the pontoon boat and we blazed through
Long Beach Harbor as the sun was coming up. And it was like, it was awesome. And I just,
for some reason, remember that moment of my time on that show more than anything else.
I love that. Well, David, I just want to get your take on the whole Angela and Roy thing
because there's a lot of people online. There's like a Reddit thread that Angela and Roy were
having some secret love affair. We talked to Greg about it. Greg was like, I'm, I'm
maybe he had stayed on the show longer, but nah, I don't think so. But, but we could see
where Roy would appeal to Angela, sort of this big gallant fella.
I remember that, like, who would you do? I think, I think Roy was like, yeah, she's
hot. I don't, I don't, I like, like Greg said, I think if he'd been on the show, if I'd
been on the show longer, that would have been a fun, you know, twist to throw in there to
just create conflict.
How much fun would it have been to revenge date Angela in front of Pam?
Oh, oh yeah. Oh no, 100%. That would have been, that would have been, she would have
totally been into that. And Roy would have been into that too, I'm sure. Oh, that would
have been funny. Yeah.
Well, David, you got to have a lot of scenes with Craig Robinson. You sort of mentioned
that we spent a lot of time in the office, but you got to do all those warehouse scenes
and oftentimes the two of you were paired up. Do you have any stories from working with
Craig or what that was like?
I love that dude. Like, like you, I got along with him really well and we hung out outside
of work quite a bit at the beginning. And I was trying to get him to do the triathlon,
which he was not into, but we almost did, almost a muddy buddy, which is this like crazy
race where you like go on this obstacle course like, and you get, I mean, literally you like
you do it with a partner or multiple people and you help each other like climb across
these obstacle courses, you go through mud, you get electrocuted, like it's the most insane
like electrocuted.
Yeah.
What? Why?
Yeah.
This sounds like electrocuting you.
Yeah, this sounds like a bad frat hazing.
It is horrible and I did it once and I'll never, ever do it again. But anyone who's
ever participated, they know there's this one obstacle course where you have to crawl
on the ground on your, through the mud and they have these hanging like, like electric
like currents that like once they touch your body, they zap you. And like it's to keep
you down low, but when you're as big as I am, you just get zapped over and over and
over again. It was the worst thing ever. Craig and I, like we talked about it all the time
and we were going to, we were, we were so possibly going to do that. Um, maybe he just
was just being nice to me saying maybe I'll think about it.
100% he was. I think he was totally placating you. Yeah, man. That sounds like a great idea.
Buh-bye.
Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
Well, that's my fantasy that Craig and I would have done that one of those adventures
together. Now I'm too old. I don't want to do it. It's nuts.
I don't want to do it 20 years ago. Now on this episode, David, we have this scene at
the Hungry Fox diner and it's kind of Pam and Roy's last big scene together for a while
because you do come back and we have another kind of heart to heart it later, but this
ends it for a while. And I remember shooting this scene with you and feeling kind of emotional
because I knew that your regular time on the office was ending. Do you have any memories
from that? Did Greg talk to you about that?
I'll tell you, like when I, when I found out, we did a table read and right then Craig got
the phone call or right before that you guys had all got picked up for two more seasons
or maybe it was three seasons. I don't know how many seasons it was at that point, but
everyone was like, oh my God, yay. And I was sitting right next to Greg and I turned to
Greg and I go, I'm not coming back in my, and he goes, no, he goes, but it's not you.
I just got to get Romeo and Juliet together and I just don't feel like I can do that with
you here. And, but I don't want to kill you off because I want you to come back and I
said, I get it. And the coolest thing ever was that I said, would it be okay for me to
do like a, you know, a pilot or something? Because it was right at the beginning of pilot
season. He goes, yeah, I think that would be okay. And, you know, oftentimes because
they don't want people to know something's not going to happen, they won't let you do
that. Like you're under contract and so they're not going to allow you to do another show.
And so he was very gracious to let me do that. And I ended up getting this really great pilot
that ended up not going, but it was a, it was a big get for me and, and definitely changed
the trajectory of my career. Shortly after that, we did shoot this episode and I knew
that I was leaving the show and it was definitely, it was emotional for me too because we become
really good friends, you know? And I, and we, you know, you know, I just knew that like
it was, it was coming to an end. Like we did stay friends afterwards, but we didn't see
each other as often. You're working and I'm off doing other things. And, you know, you
just ended up becoming friends with the people you're working with. And, and, and that's just
the way life goes on these, on these shows. But yeah, it was definitely emotional because
I definitely felt like, you know, I, this cast, you know, you become a family. So yeah,
it was definitely emotional for me to shoot that last scene.
David, did you take anything from set when you wrapped? Do you have a memento? What would
you know, it's funny. I don't, but I have, I don't know if you guys remember this, but
like the jacket that all of the warehouse wears was my jacket that I auditioned with.
No.
Yeah. Yeah. There was a, I bought this jacket from Old Navy and I wore it to my audition
and Greg said, I want that jacket. Where does that jacket? And it's kind of looks like a
dicky jacket, but it wasn't. It was this like, you know, like warehouse jacket that Old Navy
made. And so poor costumes had to call Old Navy. They called me and they're like, where
did you get that jacket? I have to get it. Cause Greg says everyone has to wear that.
So then they bought every, every, you know, every thing they could get in stock of Old
Navy's jacket. So I have that original jacket. I don't wear it anymore. I have it somewhere.
Can you imagine if you put that jacket on and Jenna, the two of you met for lunch, just
you in that jacket, like Jenna with her hair half up, half down, people would be like,
well, David, thank you so much. Thank you guys. It was really, really good to see you
and reminisce. Well, David, what are you up to now that we can talk about here?
Well, I finished this a while ago. It got pushed because of COVID, but I did this movie
Greenland that's out with Jared Butler and Marina Bakkaran that I think will be in theaters
by the time this airs. It's like a disaster movie. It's really good. I play a really,
really fun character. I don't want to say anything about it. And I'm doing this series
called Mayor of East Town with Kate Winslet that we were in the middle of filming and
it's amazing. Holy moly, David. That's amazing. She's awesome. It's great. Well, I'm so excited
for you. Kate Winslet is one of my idols. So can we please go out for drinks when you
get back? I will be happy to do that. I'd love to get drinks to be fun. David, thank
you. Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to see you. And I can't wait to see all the
things that you're up to. They sound so wonderful. Thank you, guys. So good to see you.
Thanks, David.
Angela, that was so great getting to talk to David. I know. We are just having the best
time getting to see everyone from the show. But lady, are you ready to tackle this episode
because a lot happens. Oh, and it happens fast. Guys, this episode opens with Roy pacing
outside in the parking lot. It's kind of like he's waiting, I think, for Jim to come out
of the building, but Jim's not coming out of the building. Yeah, it's the end of the
day and Jim and Karen are kind of, they're flirting, kind of making their plans, what
they're going to do. And Roy gets tired of waiting in the parking lot and he comes on
up inside. Yeah, he just, he bursts in, he yells for Jim, and Pam is like, oh, no. Well,
did you notice Jim right away looks right to you? Like, oh, crap. Yeah. And then a lot
happens. So Roy lunges at Jim. Jim just shoves Karen out of the way. He's like, I got to
get Karen out of this line of danger. And right before Roy gets his hands on Jim, Dwight
pops up and just pepper sprays Roy in the face. I mean, Dwight doesn't just spray him,
he like douses him with the whole container. And it clearly starts to affect everyone in
the bullpen. Well, I remember Jeff Blitz talking to us about this. We had a whole conversation
where he was like, listen, it's not just the person who gets hit that suffers the consequences
of pepper spray going off. Like this, it's a, it's a miss that will affect people in
a general radius. And they did a bunch of research on it. And I remember us talking
about what happens when you get pepper sprayed. And so that's why I was like, okay, well,
I'm going to pick up a tissue and I'm going to hold it to my eyes. And we were all blinking
and kind of coughing. Yeah, I believe it. Well, Angela, we had a fan question about
this scene from Lila Dano, who is 11 years old. Hi, Lila. As well as from Catherine M.
Anna C. Stephanie T. Chloe J. And Hannah S. They all asked, what did Dwight actually
spray Roy with? Because I mean, obviously we didn't pepper spray David Denman.
Well, that's a good question. And I was wondering it as well. I wonder if you had some kentipede
or Phil Shea info for us. I did ask kentipede about this and Kent said that it was an Evian
water bottle sprayer. Oh, well, that's some good acting then, you guys. Yeah. Yeah, you
just got misted, basically. You basically went to the spa, aggressive and aggressive
spa. Yes, exactly. Well, we had some other people write in, Nitya G. Aaron W. Gustavo
G. Breanna L. And Carly G. All asked how much choreography went into filming the opening
scene when Roy tries to punch Jim, how many takes were needed to get it done. And Kent
told me that we did and I remember this, Ange, about a dozen takes of Roy just rushing in
and we got everyone's reactions and we staged that all out before we ever even got out the
spray. And then we only did a couple of takes where we actually sprayed. And everything was
overseen by a stunt coordinator and our stunt coordinator's name was Bobby Porter. I remember
Bobby Porter. Yeah, he was so sweet. Well, you know, Kevin and Angela aren't there. They're
not there. Oh, that's right. So you would not have remembered that. No, we weren't there.
So but, you know, obviously Angela has many questions about this moment. We'll get to
that. Yes, she does. Jenna, now we're into the episode and this is just one of my favorite
scenes. Michael is talking to Jan on speakerphone. Toby is there. Jan is like, is Toby there?
Michael says no. And then Toby's like, I'm right here, Jan. And so Toby sort of updates
Jan that Jim isn't going to press charges. They're going to let Roy go. But because Roy
is leaving the warehouse, Daryl now wants a raise. He wants to renegotiate his job, right?
Yeah. And this is going to prove to be problematic. And Jan says to Michael, are you going to
settle this? And this couplet of dialogue is one of my favorites. Sam, can you play
it?
You care of this?
Yeppers.
What did I tell you about Yeppers?
I don't remember.
I told you not to say it. Do you remember that?
Yeesh.
Jenna, I love this so much. I had to rewatch it a few times because this is a window into
their relationship. And I love the Jan-Michael dynamic so much. How many times has he said
Yeppers to her at home in their condo? How many times has he said it in the car or whatever
they're doing? And she has had it with Yeppers. Yeppers is done.
And she really doesn't want to have to say it again. How many times have I told you not
to say Yeppers?
Yeesh.
Yeesh.
Okay. Do you have a word that triggers you like that? Have you had a relationship where
someone says something or a friendship?
Oh, that's a good question. Do you?
Well, I actually have had someone in my life, no names mentioned, that has said any who.
Interesting.
Any who. And let me tell you, any who repeated over and over, it can make you snap.
I don't love the phrase brain fart.
I don't. I don't love when people say, oh, I had a brain fart. Why? I don't know why.
I just don't love it.
Well, listen, after this, Angela, Pam has this talking head. There's this kind of a
series of talking heads. Pam says, you know, she doesn't want to be rude, but she would
prefer not to comment on what happened. But it sucked. And at the end of that talking head,
I feel like I smirk a little bit. Did you notice this? We had people write in about
it. They were like, why does she kind of smirk at the end? She says it sucked. But is she
smirking because she kind of liked it in some way? You guys, I'm Pam. And I was completely
thrown by this performance choice. I don't know what I was doing there.
I mean, I sort of thought you were like trying to shrug it off. Like it sucked. You know
how like when people are really uncomfortable, sometimes they smile.
Yeah, I think that's what I was doing. Yeah, I certainly was not intending to make you
think that Pam liked it.
No, she was really uncomfortable by it. I think so uncomfortable that she doesn't even
quite know how to relay it in the moment. It's like someone with a nervous laughter.
Yeah, she's she's embarrassed. And we're going to see later in the episode, like she is she's
truly embarrassed by this.
I love this episode so much. And I feel like Mike sure really, really delivered on some
dialogue. In particular, I loved when Jim was trying to think Dwight, he just wanted
to thank him. And rain has great dialogue is Dwight. He he says, thank you, not necessary
thus not accepted. Don't want it won't open it. Don't need it won't take it. He's got
this really fun runner of how he is responding to Jim just simply trying to say thank you.
Yeah. And Jim is going to keep trying to show his appreciation through this episode and
Dwight will not have it.
No.
Well, now Angela, we get to a scene that I love so much. And we got a lot of mail about
like, okay, this is when Oscar gives Angela Roy's check and says Roy will be coming to
pick this up later this afternoon.
Kevin is really bummed that he missed the fight. And Angela says to Oscar. Yeah, I missed
it too. Could you could you describe it?
And so Oscar explains the fight and Dwight's heroism. How can we describe it? It has a
real effect on Angela.
I mean, guys, let's just call it out. She's totally turned on by this moment of like gallant
behavior by Dwight. And Roy, I don't know what's happening. The whole interaction clearly
does it for her. You have to remember in season five, down the road, blood drive, we learn
that Angela has had two men duel over her.
Yeah.
So she she has a thing for these dueling fellas. Mike, sure. I feel like always like to put
my character in these really like, throws of emotion, whether she was incredibly upset
or aroused or pissed off. Like, I feel like he liked to see her journey through that.
Yes. Well, she's not a very emotionally showy person. And I think Mike liked to play with
that a little bit.
Well, we certainly had a lot of fun. I remember when we were doing this episode, having conversations
with Jeff Blitz and Mike about how much of her hand would she tip, right? Like how much
would she really show? And that was really fun to play around with. I did some takes
where I reacted a little bit bigger, some a little smaller and just finding those nuances
was so much fun for me as an actor.
Well, we had a fan catch Angela from Madeline Weber and Greg Rodriguez. They said around
four minutes 30 seconds, Angela appears to be rubbing a heart shaped necklace while Oscar
talks about Dwight's heroic actions. Do you think that this necklace was given to Angela
by Dwight? Any thoughts on that, Angela?
I have never thought about that. It was actually, if I remember, kind of like a tiny locket.
And I remember when I was talking to Jeff Blitz about doing this scene, we talked about ways
I might fidget a little to sort of show my emotion in this moment. And wardrobe had given
me this necklace and I just began to play with it. I love the idea that it's a necklace
that Dwight gave her though that adds a nice layer. I didn't think that through though.
So, so that's a great idea.
Well, we had more questions Angela, more mail, please excuse me, but people want to know
what Ellis Friedman said. Angela, you have all of these beautiful micro expressions on
your face. How are you able to do that without doing too much? You do it a lot in this series,
but you really get to shine in this episode.
Oh, thank you. That is so nice. I remember when I got the script and I read Oscars retelling
of it, you know, he's just telling it matter of factly what happened. But I did a little
bit of homework as an actor. I wrote next to Oscars lines, what emotion that line made
me think of. And then when I did the scene, I played through those emotions on my face.
And they were, you know, an example would be like surprise, nervousness, excited, embarrassed.
So I would go through all of that and just kind of very subtly just do emotion. So as
he said his lines, I was thinking of those emotions.
I love that. That's so actory, Angela.
I know.
Oh, the actor there in me loves it.
I love that.
Well, Jenna, I could talk about these scenes because they were so juicy for me, but let's
move along. I want to talk about Michael's tactics that he has learned on Wikipedia,
the best thing ever. And he's going to try them out on Jim, these negotiating tactics.
Yes.
Yes, he wants to roleplay.
I mean, his ideas are you lean back, you mumble your words, you change location, surprise them.
Guys, I looked up the art of negotiation online because of course I did.
And?
This is not how you do it. As we are learning, Michael's ways are not the way to do it. I
will tell you, Jenna, there is so much to learn about negotiation. And the more I read,
the more I realized what a horrible negotiator I have been in my career. It's a true art
form. There's a whole theory of negotiation. I found it fascinating. But one of the things
every sort of guide to negotiating has in common. And I, I read Forbes magazine, Business
Insider, I went to the Harvard Law School website. And one of the things is they all
say, do your homework, know your goals, listen, ask for what you want, right? And also one
of the things they talk about is that a negotiation is not the same as conflict. You have to be
willing to compromise or just say, no, if you don't like the offer. And I think I grew
up, Jenna, I don't know if it was just my family dynamic, but to negotiate something
seemed confrontational and it's not. It's just expressing your needs and seeing if that
other person or other company or whatever is willing to meet you halfway and you go
back and forth. I found it really, it felt like a mini therapy session for me.
Well, I remember I got some amazing advice from a very successful businessman right before
I was getting ready to negotiate a big deal. And he said something that I've noticed, especially
about women in negotiation, is they tend to negotiate with themselves first and they
go in with where they've already compromised. So he's like, if you want three weeks vacation,
I see women especially talk themselves out of that or they think that's too much to
ask for. So then they ask for two and then they get one. And he said, so my advice to
you is go in there and really ask for what you want. Like don't negotiate with yourself
first, just negotiate with the company. And I've never forgotten it.
And it's not conflict. Negotiating is not conflict. It's totally different. It's going
in there to be an advocate for yourself. Yes. I loved it. So anyway, there's tons of really
great things online. And then I won't even get into this somehow. I ended up on a website
that talked about the best and worst negotiations throughout history that involve countries
and policy. And it was fascinating. Well, I need to know about that. I know for later,
for later. This is a big episode. Well, now Angela, we go back to the annex. And Toby
is clearly taking statements on what happened. And he is taking Dwight's statement. In the
meantime, Ryan and Kelly are on the other side of the partition and they are eavesdropping
and they start getting in a fight because Ryan is like, I wonder what I would have done
if I'd been there. And Kelly's like, I know exactly what you would have done because when
that kid dropped their shake on me, when we were on the ferris wheel, you just laughed.
And you didn't stand up for me. And oh, this starts a whole thing.
Ryan and Kelly remind me of that SNL sketch, the Bickersons. Do you remember that? The
couple that gets really awkwardly fights at the dinner table and then makes out in the
hallway at a party. And they're doing all of this behind Toby. And he has a brilliant
line where he says, I don't think Michael intended to punish me by putting Ryan back
here with Kelly. But if he did intend that, wow, genius. Well, now at seven minutes, 40
seconds, guys, Daryl has arrived to negotiate with Michael. And Michael is already trying
out his tactics. He's going to change the location at the last minute, but then he's
changes it back. And then they sit in silence. Yes. And then he won't speak first. Oh, that
was so awkward. They sat there for so long. I love Craig Robinson in these scenes. He's
so still, right? He's just sitting there. And it's so confuses Michael, like Michael
does not understand. So finally he says, I'm declining to speak first. Yeah, he can't take
it anymore. And Daryl's like, All right, I'll start. Well, I think Daryl, if you guys read
about negotiation theory, he has come with a clear vision of what he wants. And there's
no BS. He's very upfront. And Michael is doing all this weird stuff and cannot understand
that Daryl is not thrown by it. And it's at this moment when Daryl says, Michael, are
you wearing a woman's suit? I think he says, Are you wearing lady clothes? That's right.
And Michael's like, What are you talking about? Michael goes on to tell this talking head
that I love. He said he found a suit in a bin. And there were a lot of people and they
were rifling through things like crazy. And I don't know, maybe the suit is bisexual. It's
it's made by mysterious. And there's buttons on the wrong side. Maybe that's the mystery.
It's European. Okay, it's a European cut. He just is like, rambling all this stuff.
And Jenna, I love the idea that Michael went to some crazy day after Thanksgiving, Black
Friday craziness at some like department store and was rifling through a bin. Yeah. And he
was really proud of it. I think he really did think he had bought like a European suit
on sale. Well, he comes out into the bullpen and he's like, Pam, Pam, will you please tell
everyone that this is not a woman's suit? And Pam is like, Oh my gosh, it doesn't have
any pockets. And then when Steve turns around and like shows how he can't put his hands
in his back pockets, it makes me laugh so hard. Yeah. And Phyllis is like, and it has
shoulder pads. Well, let me just say, Angela, this scene points out something that has been
a pet peeve of mine for a long time, more than a pet peeve. So if you'll excuse me, I need
to get my soap box and I'm going to be there for a second. I was I was going to say, are
you about to stand up on a soap box? I am. I want to discuss the lack of adequate pockets
on women's clothing. Okay, I know this about you already. Go. Well, first of all, I did
a deep dive on pockets because it has bothered me for a long time. You know, Angela, I've
had back problems. So it is not comfortable or practical for me to carry a purse. So I
had this idea. I'm going to just carry a wallet in my pocket. Men do it all the time. Why
can't I do that? But whenever I would try to put like my phone or a wallet in my pockets,
they pop out when I sit down. And here is why. Are you ready? I don't know if I'm ready.
Bring it. So in the beginning, all clothing was made without pockets and everyone, men
and women carried around a little pouch with their money and belongings. If you've ever
watched Little House on the Prairie, you've seen it. Both Ma and Pa, they both carry around
a little pouch. Yes. All right. And what was it was a pouch called? I don't know. It was
just a pocket pouch. Oh, that's so interesting. Because I know my mom will still sometimes
say, will you get me my pocket book? Yes, because your pocket was not a thing that was
sewn on you. It was a thing you carried. Oh, that makes very... I always wondered where
pocket book came from. Okay, go on. I'm interested. Let's do it. All right. So about 400 years
ago, they started sewing pockets into men's clothing, but not women's clothing. Why not?
Well, some historians think that it was a way to keep women sort of powerless. Like
you couldn't hide keys or money or do business. Like your pocket was on the outside of you.
You were more vulnerable. Okay. Okay. Less secure. Got it. But then in the late 1800s,
there was a movement called the Rational Dress Society. Jenna, are these your people? These
are your people, the Rational Dress Society. Well, listen to what these women did. What?
Their goal was to quote, dress for comfort and health. Yeah. These are definitely your
people. I know. These women are definitely in drawstring pants today. I'll tell you that.
Oh, they are. Well, back then, their main goal was to get women to abandon the corset
because it was literally unhealthy to wear a corset. And they also really pushed for
women to be able to wear trousers with pockets without stigma. Love it. All right. Eventually
in 1920, Coco Chanel started sewing pockets into women's jackets, but it was not until
the 1970s when women regularly started wearing jeans that we finally had pockets on a regular
basis, Angela. That is crazy to me because, I mean, the 70s are not that long ago. Someone
sitting right here might have been born in the 70s. I was born in the 70s. I know. And
that's when, like, ladies started having more pockets. That's crazy. Well, they started
having pockets, Angela, but they weren't great because pockets on women's clothing are either
sewn shut in the example of Michael's suit. What am I supposed to do with that? What am
I doing with a faux pocket? Yeah. Or they are proportionally smaller than men's pockets.
Oh, oh, that's so true. I cannot fit my cell phone in my pants pocket. It falls out of
the side. It doesn't fit. Well, Angela, I'll tell you what, I read a report that tested
80 pairs of pockets on both men's and women's blue jeans, all with a waist size of 32. So
wait, same size pants. Same size pants. So you can't say, oh, the pockets are smaller
because women's pants are smaller than men's pants. No. They are proportionally smaller.
On average, women's front pockets were 48% smaller and 6.5% more narrow. Why? I don't
know. I mean, I get it if, like, it's like a smaller, like, style. You know what I mean?
But on two pairs of jeans that are made the same. You know, Angela, here's my thing.
Okay. Am I getting out your soap box? My soap box is out. Okay, get on it. Here's what
I want to say, Angela. I think we all know that women do not get paid the same as men,
even if they're doing the same job. And we also know now that our pockets don't hold
as much. I just think we need bigger pockets and bigger paychecks. Chutching. Can I get
my chutching? Equal pay for equal pockets. Hashtag it, everyone. Hashtag, Jenna, I liked
the history of pockets. I found that fascinating. Yeah, thank you very much. You're welcome.
I'm passionate about pockets and Angela, I'm also passionate about high heel shoes and
why we shouldn't wear them, but I'll save that for another episode. Okay. Well, you
know, Michael is just so embarrassed and devastated. You know, he's not, he thought
he was on top of things with this negotiation and this has really thrown him. Yeah, he said
he made one mistake. You can't make any mistakes in negotiating, but he wore one. But he made
one mistake, wearing women's clothing. Yes. And now, Jenna, this scene takes us to the
kitchen and I have labeled this scene at 11 minutes, 15 seconds. Kevin, the shit stirrer.
Yes. I mean, Kevin, listen to what he says to Karen in front of Stanley and Angela. Kevin
says, so Karen, how do you feel that Roy tried to kick your boyfriend's ass over another
woman? I mean, yeah, Kevin, sit down, Kevin, you need to sit down. But then Angela is like,
you know, I wasn't there. I mean, what happened? I wasn't there because she wants Karen to
tell her the story. She cannot get enough. I remember talking to Phil Shea about what
I should be eating in this scene. And we thought it would be kind of funny if she's eating
grapes. It's a very sort of like, like Renaissance moment for her. The lady eating grapes being
titillated by a story. So now we go back to Michael's office. He and Darrell are still
negotiating and Darrell makes a very compelling argument for why he deserves a raise. Yeah,
he said he's picking up Roy Slack. I mean, that that is so legitimate. But Jenna, I have
to tell you, there is a fantastic blooper moment. If you go to the bloopers on YouTube,
you know, Michael is doing that weird mumble tack that we're talking about. Yeah, yeah.
And there's some great bloopers of Steve and Craig just cracking up. I love that. Well,
I don't know if you noticed in the background over Darrell's shoulder, Pam is not at reception.
Do you know why? Oh, that's a good catch because she's in the break room. Yeah, she's in the
break room and she's experiencing major heartbreak in the break room. Lady, I titled this scene
despair in the break room. Well, despair. Well, I thought it was so heartbreaking. I
felt it warranted a little musical intro. Sam, could you play Heartbreak in the Break
Room by Josh Compton? There's a cold one that blows through the hallways in Cubic Coral.
Add a lonely old phantom of sorrow as Granton rolls in. And there's a sad secretary who's
mourning the loss of a friend. It's the oldest of stories, heartbreak in the break room again.
The white if you're near, the lender in ear, and a jacket to shoulder the pain. She's
not PMSing, it's something more pressing, heartbreak in the break room again.
Yeah, well, ain't that the truth? Heartbreak again. Now, Jenna, this scene when I watched
it, I did think of Dwight and Angela scenes just in the fact of the staging. Yeah. He
doesn't look at you. His back is towards you the whole time. Yes. Yeah. And Pam gets pretty
vulnerable here. She's really trying to connect. She says, I'm really sorry. It's over with
Roy. And Jim is doing that thing where he's like, Oh, yeah, no, I'm sure it's fine. I
mean, come on, you guys will get back together again. I'm sure. Yeah. Oh, he's being so cold.
So cold. And he doesn't believe her. That's the thing. I really believe that he doesn't
believe her. He's like, we'll see. You guys were good together. You'll probably figure
it out. And she's just like, Oh, yeah. Oh, she just feels so bad, so embarrassed. And
you know, Jim has just been down this road too many times with her. I think he's really,
really trying to move on. And that's why he's behaving this way in the scene. He's like,
I can't do this again. Yeah, well, I think he's probably frustrated with himself that
he, he let himself get to a place emotionally where he could see them together again. And
in Phyllis's wedding, that was just crushed. Yeah. And he's just not going to put himself
out there like that. It's too much drama. So much drama. You know, I get it. I get why
he's like, you know what? I'm not going there. Yeah. Well, then in the next scene, we find
out that Michael hasn't had a raise in 14 years. He's never been given a raise ever. Ever.
And, and, and he shows Daryl his pay stub. And Daryl was like, Oh my God, any wonder
they're not going to give me a raise? Look what they're paying you. You've got to ask
for a raise. Yeah. And he convinces Michael to call Jan and ask for a raise. But before
Michael hits up Jan, we find Jim and Karen in the kitchen. Yeah. Jim is eating his carrots.
15 minutes, 22 seconds. Bag of carrots. Bag of carrots. And you know, he wants Karen's
advice about how he can thank Dwight. And she was like, Well, are you feeling guilty
for all those pranks you pulled on him? Jim's like, Yeah, maybe that's it. And she says,
Okay, we'll go sell some paper so we can go on a trip. Yeah, focus on work. She's so
practical. I know. He's like, Dang it. I don't want practicality. I want to play pranks
with Pam, but I can't because she keeps breaking my heart. Yes. Well, finally, Michael does
pick up the phone, right? He's like, I'm going to call Jan and I'm going to ask for a raise.
And he's got Jan on speakerphone and Daryl is supervising. He's kind of like going to
be his support, right? His coach. Yeah. And Jan tells Michael the only way they can discuss
a possible raise is if he comes in person by five o'clock, and he has to bring Toby.
And he says, Toby is the worst human being I've ever known. Michael says, I'm bringing
Daryl. And she's like, Michael, we need someone from HR. So now the three of them are going
to be on this weird road trip. In the meantime, Angela still wants to hear this story, guys.
He's not done. And she asked Creed. Here's Creed's version. Ready? Yes. Big Fella comes
in about 1130 at night, screaming. Jim stole his car. Big Fella pulls out a sock full of
nickels. Shrewt grabs hairspray and a lighter. So insane. So insane. Angela's like, you're
useless. Then she goes to Kelly. And Kelly's like, you know, I think Toby wrote a whole
report about it. And Angela's like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And she goes and steals
the report. Yes. I mean, what is she up to? And I have to point out we haven't talked
about it. This is a very classic Angela Martin hairdo. Yes, I was going to ask you, it looks
like the Angela Martin braid, but also it's a ponytail. I think it's the headband braid
ponytail version. I will tell you, it's all my hair. That is not a hairpiece. Kim Ferry,
the master of hair, she was able to separate a little piece, do this braid over, pin it
into a ponytail. And, and that's all my hair, guys. I love it. Did it give you a headache?
It didn't. Those did not give me a headache. It was more like the severe buns. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, listen, we're about to hit the road with Michael and Daryl and Toby. But before
we do, let's take a break and we'll be right back.
All right. So now Toby and Daryl and Michael are in the car. This is hilarious pairing.
No one's comfortable. He's like, you're comfortable. No, you comfortable. No. And then Daryl's
like saying, maybe I'll crash in New York for the night. And, and Toby's like, how
will we get back? He's like, you could stay. And then, but Michael's not in fight. I know.
I love this odd grouping of people. This is one of my favorite things. This feels very
Mike sure to me as well. He loved to team up odd characters. Angela, I have to say
bring up the movie rush hour in the car, right? And this made me think of the movie speed.
Stay with me here. Do you remember a few podcasts back? You were like line for line quoting speed.
And I was like, when is the last time you watch speed? And you were like three days
ago pop quiz asshole. There it is. Well, I got that in my head. And I was like, huh,
maybe I should watch speed. Did you watch speed? Angela, it is so good. Everybody watch
speed. Okay. Cano Reeves, Sandra Bullock, Jeff Daniels. I mean, you guys, this movie
has everything. It's action, romance, friendship. I mean, and it's peak Keanu Reeves hotness.
It is peak Keanu Reeves hotness. Well, Angela, I'll tell you what, I enjoyed speed so much
that then I watched point break. Oh, oh, wait, surfs up bro. Yes, Johnny Utah. Are you kidding
me, Utah? Let me tell you this. You thought that speed was peak Keanu Reeves hotness.
But in point break, he starts in the rain, and he ends in the rain. Okay. He's, it's
a beautiful, Catherine Bigelow directed it. Yeah. Again, there is in the movie point break,
there is a five minute, at least five minute foot chase through people's backyards and
houses and jumping over fences. When do you see that anymore in movies? I absolutely love
both these movies. So I have decided that to get me through the rest of 2020, I will
become a Keanu Reeves film aficionado. And I think I'm going to start next on the John
Wick movies, which I've never seen. Well, Josh has seen the John Wick movies. He told
me they might be too violent for me. But I love Keanu Reeves. You know I love him. Yeah.
And I have seen pretty much all of his movies, but maybe I'll watch John Wick with you. Let's
watch John Wick and we'll get back to each other. We're going to have to go into some
Bill and Ted's, you know, the new one just came out and my friend Aaron Hayes got to
kiss Keanu Reeves. Well, you're going to need to get some information on that and bring
that to the podcast. Aaron was in Hot Wives of Vegas with me on Hulu. When did she kiss
Keanu Reeves? In Bill and Ted's second one. Oh. What about a Walk in the Clouds? What
about that one? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, we have a lot to do. Don't get
me started on The Matrix, one of my favorite movies ever. Well, I don't need to rewatch
those because I've seen them so many times, but I will because I want to. There is no
spoon. Yeah. Oh, I'm so excited. I had no idea you went down that. It's what I'm doing
now. Oh my God, they play football on the beach. Are you kidding me? All right. So the
guys eventually they get to New York, they get to Dunder Mifflin and we find Michael
sitting in the lobby and he looks over to the woman sitting next to him and she is wearing
the same suit. You know, Jenna, I looked up how many times does Michael Scott wear women's
clothing by accident? This is going to be a recurring thing. It is? Yes. Do I not remember
this? Okay. In launch party, he has on a shirt that's way too tight and the consensus is
that it was probably a woman's shirt. Okay. And then in nepotism, Aaron mentions that
the pants Michael had that she had to return to Talbott's or something. So clearly he's
bought some women's suits repeatedly and he says he won't make that mistake again. Well,
we got some mail. We had some questions from Maruna T, Breanna K, Megan S, Rachel Hayes
and Dan Salomon. They said, was Steve really wearing a woman's suit or was it custom made
for him? So, Ange, I reached out to Carrie Bennett, our wardrobe designer. Awesome. Here
is what she told me. She said it really was a lady's suit. She did not have time to sew
something from scratch because they would have had to also sew a matching suit for the
woman in the lobby. So here's what she did. She said the first thing she did was try to
find a woman's suit that would fit Steve and then hope that she could buy an identical
one to fit the woman. So she went to stores with a measuring tape looking for a jacket
and pants that would fit Steve's measurements. But also she said it had to look masculine
enough that it would be plausible that Michael would be confused enough to buy it from a
bargain bin. Right. She said that Steve was always so wonderful and generous with his
time in the fittings and that oftentimes he would learn about a plot point for a future
episode from her. And this was one of those times. She said he walked into a fitting and
she was like, so today I'm going to need you to try on all of these women's suits.
And Steve was like, for why? And she was like, well, let me tell you, there's going to be
an episode next week where this happens because, you know, they would give the crew these scripts
a couple of weeks in advance so they could prepare. But the actors, we would only get
them what five days before we started shooting. Sometimes the day of Jenna, sometimes we would
get them like an hour before the lunch table read. It depended on what kind of turnaround
and how long the script was taking. And I learned about storylines many times in wardrobe.
I totally relate to that. I remember learning about Dwight and Angela's wedding because
I was going to need to be fitted for a wedding dress. Yeah. Jenna, do you realize that this
is the first time we meet Hunter? Yes. Played by Nicholas DeGosto. And Michael's like, you
didn't tell me you hired James Vanderbeek. Well, you know, Angela, this guy has a very
extensive resume. I looked him up, but he was in the movie election with Reese Witherspoon
and Matthew Broderick. I love that movie. Yes. He has starred in Gotham and Trial and
Error. But I was very excited because he is the lead of Final Destination 5. And I'm
a huge fan of the Final Destination movies. I've never seen one of them. What? Well, you
hadn't seen Speed. Come on. I've seen Speed. I just hadn't seen Speed in a while. Had you
seen Point Break? Of course I've seen Point Break. It came out in 1991 when I was a senior
in high school. Of course I saw it. Every girl who was 17 years old saw Point Break.
Okay. I haven't seen Final Destination. Is it a scary movie? Do they have to get somewhere
and if they don't get there, they die or something? It's their Final Destination. Here's what
happens. Everyone starts the same but different. There's a major catastrophe. For example,
in Final Destination 5, they are supposed to take a bus over a bridge. Who's they? Like
a group of kids. It's always like a group of teenagers are traveling somewhere by plane
or bus or maybe on the highway. And a major accident happens and they're all killed. Asteroid.
Something like that? No. It's not science fiction, Angela. Oh, okay. There's no asteroid
that falls from the sky. Okay. It's always like a series of little things that lead to
a giant calamity. So someone's tire bursts and then the car spins and then that hits
a truck and then things fall off the truck and hit another truck and then something slams
into something and then the whole bridge ends up collapsing, right? And they're trapped
on the bus, hanging from the bridge or something? No, they're dead. They all die. Oh, oh. Then
how do you have a movie? Exactly. Every movie opens up with like a giant disaster moment
and then it rewinds and you realize that it's a person's premonition of what's about to
happen and that person freaks out and says, everybody get off the bus. We're all going
to die. We're all going to die. And he convinces everyone to get off the bus and they think
he's crazy and they get off the bus and then everything happens as they envisioned it.
But they live because of the person's weird premonition, right? Okay. But here's the
problem, Angela. Do they all die anyway? They were meant to die on that bus and they've
cheated death and so death is now going to come for them slowly one by one in the order
that they would have died in the accident. Okay. Yeah. It's the same plot every time,
but they're great. Sounds really stressful. I like movies. I like it. They relax me and
I shouldn't say they're relaxing. No, I think they do, Jenna. I think they do because I
think I love you, but you will play out the worst case scenario of every situation. Yeah.
Yeah. To sort of prepare yourself. Yeah. So I think movies like this are all horrible
worst case scenarios. Yes. And in your mind, you're like, oh, yeah, I would think about
that. I can relate to that. Yes, Angela. Thank you for saying this. I found uncut gems very,
I don't want to say soothing, but I just want to say that my brain operates on that level
of stress and anxiety all the time. Yes. So when I see it depicted, it's like it cancels
it out and I feel like, oh, finally someone's meeting me where I am. Yeah. You feel seen.
I think you feel seen. Yeah. So whereas I know like you or Lee watch a movie like that
and you're like, I can't handle this. I can't do this, right? Yeah. That's not recreation
for me. I don't want to feel like that in my free time. I want to watch Pride and Prejudice.
I want to watch Kiera Knightley say, Mr. Darcy. Mr. Darcy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, that
was a little bit of a tangent, but I just want you to know that's Hunter. So now Roy
is coming to collect his final paycheck. You know, Angela must be very excited. She's
so thrilled now. Roy and Dwight are in the same room. Oh, anything could happen. Yeah.
And there's a moment where Kevin runs out and he goes, Jim, Roy, look out. Like so delayed.
It's too late. He's pointing a Twizzler. Is that what it is? It's a Twizzler or a red
vine. We had a big, big container of them, remember? In the kitchen. Oh yeah, they were
red vines. I remember I got into a big debate on set about the red container. Yes. Because
I like red vines and then there's the Twizzler camp. And the two don't see eye to eye. You
know what? I can enjoy both a Twizzler and a red vine, but if I had to choose, I might
go red vine. I'm a red vine. Yeah. Yeah. So there's now sort of this awkward apology
moment where Roy apologizes to Jim and Jim's like, yeah, no worries. And then Dwight is
ready, you know, in case he's, Roy's going to lunge again, but he's not. He's just embarrassed
and he feels bad and he asks Pam if she'll have coffee with him one last time. Yeah.
He says he just has a few things he has to get off his chest and she agrees. So then
we go to this coffee place. And do you remember this place, Angela? It's a, we see a shot
of it and it says the Hungry Fox. It's a real place and it's still there. Yes. And I would
go there. They actually, they're, they're sort of one of these places guys where you
can get a little bit of everything. It's kind of like a diner and I've had their cheeseburger.
It's so good.
I used to eat there all the time too because it was very close to our offices and Greg told
me that he often in the mornings before he went into work, he would stop there and have
breakfast and kind of set his head for the day basically. And so it's kind of cool that
we got to shoot at this place that we all really would eat at. Yeah. I, I loved it.
It's a little mom and pop place. Well, I have a question for you, Jenna. When I was watching
the scene, it occurred to me. I mean, would Pam have wanted the camera crew to come to
this? It's such an intimate moment. It's a farewell. And I was so surprised that she
would agree to let the camera crew come along. It's interesting that you asked that question
because I actually had the same thought. I thought that it was interesting that this
was done on camera, but I had another thought which was maybe Pam doesn't want to be alone
with Roy.
Well, that's true. The camera crew would have been a buffer, especially, you know, we learned
that Pam had become friends with some of the crew, right?
Yeah. Later, we'll find that out. Yeah. So maybe it in some way was this buffer for this
moment. And she wasn't sure how that moment was going to play out. Yeah. So it might have
made her feel, I don't know, a little better to have them there. Yeah. Okay. I'll buy that.
Well, Roy really apologizes to Pam. And she apologizes as well. She says we, you know,
we both made bad decisions. But then Roy says, so are you going to date Jim now? And he says
it's sort of like, it would be okay with him.
Yeah. I don't know if it would be okay if he's just like curious and wanting to know
up front so he knows what he has to hear about, you know, through the grapevine. But Pam says
no.
And he's like, he has a girlfriend. But Roy is like, I mean, you called off our wedding
for the guy and now you're not going to date him. I just don't get you Pam.
Well, he calls you a Pami. And you also say, well, there were other reasons too, which I
think is Pam just being polite and not, not saying you did this, you didn't do this. She
doesn't want to run him, you know, through the ringer and just leaves it at that.
But I do think that Roy saying that is planting the seed for what Pam's going to do later.
Because it's true. It's true. She did call off her wedding to Roy in part because she
had feelings for Jim. If she did not have feelings for Jim, I'm not sure she would have
called off the wedding just because they were not a perfect match.
I agree. I think her, her feelings for Jim and the way Jim sort of held up a mirror to
her life changed her and he is the reason. He's a big, big part of the reason.
Yeah.
All right. Well, that was, we talked about this with David a little bit. That was a really
special scene for me. I love doing that scene with him. I just love doing scenes with David.
He was a great actor. He's a great acting partner and I was really sad knowing that
that was going to be the last scene we would do for a while.
I know. You guys had a really special thing and I loved being able to watch that scene.
He was kind of the first major regular character who had been with us from the beginning who
was leaving the show.
Yes.
Yes.
And that was, we'd been through a lot. You know, he was part of our origin story. He
was with us when the show was struggling and then he was with us when we started getting
awards and it was really weird to say goodbye.
Yeah. Well, lady, we should go back to corporate because we've got some unfinished business
there. Michael and Jan are in the throes of negotiation and he says, give me a raise or
no more sex. And Toby just starts taking notes and Michael's like, watch your right
and down, Pervball. And then I'm telling you, Paul Lieberstein as Toby crushes it in this
talking head.
It's so good.
He talks about what a groundbreaking case this is going to be when it inevitably goes
to trial.
It's so good. Well, Michael cannot help but make this personal.
Yes. Well, right out of the gate, he says we're lovers. I mean, right, right away.
Finally, Jan says to Michael, listen, I can give you a 12% raise, but you have to ask
me for 15%. Okay. So just ask for 15 and we'll settle at 12.
He doesn't get it.
He doesn't get it. He says, I want a 15% raise. She said, we can offer you 12. And he says,
you said 15. And she's like, oh, Michael. Yeah. Well, he does end up getting his raise.
He does. And so does Darryl. And Michael explains that negotiating is an art form. And ultimately,
it's more about salary. It's really about the perks, like having sex with Jan.
And I mean, moving forward, if Michael ever has another job, which we know he will, how's
he going to negotiate? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think he really learned anything.
I don't know. Well, now it's the end of the day. Dunder Mifflin. All is quiet.
People are leaving. Did you catch as Phyllis is leaving? She mentions it's very sort of
under under dialogue as they're leaving. She says that her and Bob are looking at historical
homes near the river. I did not catch that. What a great nugget. I'm like, what the heck?
I cannot get enough of Bob and Phyllis dance. I know I would have loved to see more of them.
Something we haven't talked about exactly are all the ways that Jim keeps trying to
pay Dwight back. So like, you know, he tries to give him a display case for his bobble
head. And he tries to give him this certificate of bravery from the Scranton Police Department.
But it's, you know, something they give to little kids. Well, it has a teddy bear on
it. And he just throws it away. And Jim just can't figure out how he can repay Dwight.
Well, then he finds a way. Yeah, he does. So yeah, everyone's left. Angela and Dwight
think they're alone. Angela tells Dwight she's heard tales of bravery. Yeah. A gallant hero.
And maybe they'll have to read the report. Toby's report together later. And Dwight just
scoops her up and gives her a big ol' smooch. And who walks out of the bathroom? Jim. He
sees it all. And he's like, oh my gosh, his face is so brilliant. Now there are two things
that the scene made me think of. So number one, I noticed that when Rain comes over to
you, he sits on your desk. Was that intentional so you guys would be kind of the same height
to start kissing? Always. Always. And almost every scene Dwight and Angela have together,
he is seated. Look it up, guys. I totally noticed it. He is what, six foot three. I
am five one. And here's the other thing that the scene made me think of, which is that
Jim has this talking head where he says, I will never say a word and now we're even.
So this means that Pam never told Jim what she knows about Dwight and Angela's relationship.
That's right. Pam completely kept that a secret. Yeah. Pam, I mean, I will say this. Pam does
right by Angela over and over. She does. I was like, I guess I had forgotten that Pam
never told Jim. Well, I have a little behind the scenes story about this scene. We did
probably like three, three or four takes just to get the timing right of Jim walking out
and reacting. In one take, Rain sort of does this huge grand gesture where he shoves everything
off Oscar's desk, you know, he like takes his hand and sweeps across the desk and everything
goes flying. And he, and I'm like, he picks me up and lays me down on the desk. And, and
we thought it was hilarious. And Jeff Blitz was like, it's probably too much. But that
kind of goes with your whole like grape eating, I know, whole like renaissance passion. I
know. Oh, look at my ankle. Oh, yeah. I know. But that cracked me up. But yeah, that is
not the take we went with. And then before the show ends, Andy returns guys, he is back
from anger management. He's not going to blow his second chance. He walks in the office
and immediately gets pepper sprayed by Dwight. Yes. This leads to Toby taking away all of
Dwight's weapons underneath his desk. He had a little Sharpie star thing. What do they
call it? You throw the star or Sharpie star. And he had nunchucks and pepper spray all
duct taped under his desk. Yeah. I think maybe Toby's next stop should be Creed's drawer.
Because remember when Creed was able to whittle the wooden stake, he opened his drawer and
he had like a lot of stuff in there. I feel like there's a world where Creed hits a button
and his desk flips up and there's stairs that go below the office into an underground bunker.
And he has everything you need for any doomsday scenario. Well, Dwight ends this with a talking
head saying he's not a hero, just a defender of the office. A real hero is hero from heroes,
which was an NBC show on at the time. Huge, huge show. Huge, huge show. Remember, why
was their big catchphrase protect the cheerleader? I don't remember. Yeah, that sounds right.
Save the cheerleader, Sam says. Save the cheerleader. Turns out cheerleader didn't
need saving. She had superpowers. Before we say goodbye to the negotiation, Jenna, there's
something really important we missed. We did not talk about. In the negotiation? Yeah.
What? We find out Ryan's middle name. Yes. Ryan Bailey Howard. Yeah, we also find out
that Kelly wants to name their child Usher Jennifer Hudson Kapoor. Well, that's it for
the negotiation, you guys. Thank you so much for sending in your questions and to David
Denman. Yes, David. Thank you so much. Guys, we are getting close to wrapping up season
three here. We're in the final stretch of episodes and they are all going to get good.
Real good. We'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office
Ladies is produced by Irwin, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey. Our producer is Cody Fisher.
Our sound engineer is Sam Kieffer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubakow. Our
theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. For ad-free versions of Office Ladies, go
to StitcherPremium.com. For a free one-month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.