Oh What A Time... - #1 Fashion

Episode Date: July 16, 2023

Welcome to the inaugural episode of Oh What A Time… A history podcast presented by comedians Elis James and Tom Craine along with podcaster Chris Scull. And welcome to our first subject: Fashion. This week we’ll be discussing how to look your best in Ancient Rome, how curly your shoes should be in medieval Britain and we’ll finally clear up why hardly anyone wears a Fez anymore. Our first series will contain 12 episodes that we’ll be releasing weekly; coming soon, you can look forward to topics such as humour, marriage, sport, a life at sea, parenting, partying, pets, and lots more. If you’d like to get in touch with the show you can email us at: [e-mail] We’re also on Twitter and Instagram @ohwhatatimepod And thank you to Dr Daryl Leeworthy for his help with this week’s research. And thank you for the artwork by Dan Evans (idrawforfood.co.uk). And thank you for listening!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders and 5% Uber cash back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students. With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month. Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms apply. Hello and welcome to Oh What a Time, the new history podcast that tries to decide if the past was as awful as it seems. I'm Ennis James. I'm Tom Crane. And I'm Chris Scull. And today, in our first ever episode, we're going to be looking at

fashion. From how to look mega snazzy in ancient Rome. To how curly your shoes should be in medieval Britain. And then finally, finally, the death of the Fez will be revealed. Dealing with all of the big topics. Brave? Yes. Yes, very brave. Foolhardy? Possibly. Possibly, we'll find out.

And that is just the start, though, because coming up this series, we've got so many great subjects. We've got humour, marriage, sport, a life at sea, parenting, partying, pets, and any subject that you guys might want to throw at us. Yes, that's right. Do feel free to suggest a subject. So, here's right. Do feel free to suggest a subject.

So, here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at owhattime.com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at owhattimepod. Leave a review in Latin if you like, then we'll translate the funniest ones next week.

If you're an academic or you just speak Latin because you went to grammar school in the 1940s, feel free to just knock one out. Not knock one out, that sounds awful. If you're really enjoying the podcast. But do keep that to yourself. And review-wise, we're looking at five-star reviews, ideally,

which in Latin would be a V-star review. See, I do know my stuff. Very, very nice. Cue oldie worldie title music. All right, this week we are talking about fashion. Tom, you own several items from the clothing brand Stone Island, which, as I frequently tell you, is off-brand. What do you think, Ellis? I would agree.

First time I saw it, I was like, what are you... No, no! Yeah, it'd be like if you turned up dressed as a Viking or something. Well, I would say that it's also an Italian fashion brand. It's not just people punching each other on the terraces. But that has been completely commandeered

by hard lads at football. Do you know what they should do? In the Stone Island shop, right by the checkout, they should have one of those machines you get on the seaside where you have to punch the thing. And there should be... You have to get above 800 in order to be able to follow through with your purchase. Yeah, and then if you don't get above 800, you've got to go back. You've got to put all of the stuff back on the shelves, on the racks.

And everyone knows what's happened. This can't just be about me. Let's find out if you guys. Are you guys fashionistas? Are you into fashion? I'm looking forward to today's episode because believe it or not, a bit embarrassing, This can't just be about me. Let's find out if you guys. Are you guys fashionistas? Are you into fashion? I'm looking forward to today's episode, because believe it or not, a bit embarrassing, I'm actually Wales' most fashionable man. What?

Yeah. I often walk down the street to applause. People are like, look at his trousers. Look at those bloody trousers. Two matching shoes. Two matching shoes. Socks on. He's got socks on. And I'm like, yes

What's your nicest piece of clothing then, Ellis? What's the best thing you own? You can choose one thing I tend to wear a lot of the same polo shirt Because I've discovered that this polo shirt brand really suits me And I've experimented with other polo shirt brands And they're all a little bit wrong for a variety of reasons. So, Fred Perry, for instance, too boxy.

Farrah, slightly too tight. Akko Skutum, slightly too tight and bunches up the shoulders. Jojo Mama, baby, just right. Gap Kids, on the other hand. Fashion, that's today's episode. Shall we see what we're going to be talking about today? I'm going to be talking about ancient Roman fashion. That's what I'm going to be looking at.

What about you guys? I am going to be talking about pointy shoes. The whole gamut of pointiness. Okay, great. And what about you, Chris? I'm talking about funny hats. Once again, I'm going to

take you into my time machine. So put on your seatbelts. Are they on? Take them off. Make the sound of seatbelts going on. Thank you very much. And you, Chris. Great.

And lock the door. Yep, fine. That's disgusting. The time machine has central locking. They've got child lock as well. I can't get out of my time machine. I'm in a booster seat. And now put on your time machine hat,

which is an interesting hat. It changes to whatever type of hat is applicable to whatever time you go to. It's a magic hat. So you don't look like an idiot. It's just whatever hat you require, it will be that hat when you get out of the time machine. It's okay. We're ready to go. If we're making a time machine, is it a TARDIS-like facility or are we going like DeLorean?

I don't know how to describe it. Those tiny cars that people drove around 2004? They only had two seats. Smart cars. Smart cars. That's how I'm imagining it. It's like that, but with lots of lights on it. So in the smart car version of a time machine, and we're plugged in, belted up, and the child locks are on,

so we're safe. We're safe. And now we're pressing the button that says Ancient Rome on it. That's the only one. Each of these different time machines takes you to a different place. So there we are. We're in Ancient Rome. So I'm going to talk to you about fashion in Ancient Rome.

First question. What do you think was the most popular outfit of the day in Ancient Rome? What did people wear most of the time? Well, the way you've asked that I'm going to assume it's not this but let's get the conversation started. I'm going to say the toga. Yeah sandals. Yeah toga sandals. But pants I think? We will come to that we'll find out. Do you need to get so sleazy so quickly Chris? I'm just thinking if I had to get dressed for ancient Rome I would be I'd think a lot about pants. Well, I actually do know this.

The Romans, often they did go commando, but they also used cloth to create a rudimentary pant, basically. They would do that as well. But often they did choose to go, yeah, they'd go flapping around. Partly because of the heat, I imagine. Although I always find I feel quite vulnerable when I'm not wearing pants. I'm much happier when I have pants on. I feel vulnerable and stupid

yeah absolutely you're not even wearing pants on man come on yeah it's that attitude that attitude that saw you voted Wales is best dressed man the frequency with which you have pants on oh six times a week

market leader in ancient Rome if I was commando in a toga i would constantly be fearful i'm going to trap it the toga in a door and then you're naked in the street yeah yeah or you're getting caught on the wheel of a car and then dragged to your that must happen all the time that was happening five times a day in ancient rome well you say that chris but in fact not that many people were rocking the toga back in ancient rome this is a bit of a falsity now there's a reason behind this there's a reason we believe that people wore togas and that is because only really the wealthy wore them and because ancient statues and works of art only really depict the wealthy. That's what we see.

And that's why people believe that ancient Romans wore the toga all the time. And that's why it's ended up in the films and why it's become synonymous with that time. But in reality, they were only really worn for special occasions and only really owned by the mega wealthy. So what did normal people wear? Trackies? Well, yes. Trackies and sliders. Like footballers being interviewed after training.

I would have guessed the toga would be ubiquitous throughout society because it's basically a rag. It's one long cloth, isn't it? It's not that complicated. It's so close to nothing at all. No. Once again, Chris, a double whammy of wrong answers. God, you're sick.

This is humiliating. No, in fact, the toga was an unbelievably difficult thing to put on, incredibly long and really hard to wear, so much so that people that own togas employed a special slave or had a special slave called a vestibulicus that's how you pronounce it and it was their role to put your toga on it was such a complicated piece of clothing to put on you had a specific person in your household who would get you into it in the morning i could do that but also it's not the hours are going to be fairly flexible.

Well, not flexible, but they're going to be fairly easy, aren't they? The toga hours, you'd have to do it first thing in the morning. Yeah. And then the rest of the day is yours. How would you feel, on a basic level, about someone, as an adult, getting you dressed in the morning? I think the benefit of it would be you'd be dressed in the morning. I think the benefit of it would be you'd be faster in the mornings, I think.

If you knew there was a guy there waiting to get you dressed, you're not going to sit on your phone on The Guardian having a poo for unnecessarily long in the morning. I think it might speed your day up. Do you know what, though? Having acted in things, it is amazing how the costume department, when you're acting in a sitcom or something they will they won't they will try and do as much for you as poss so say when you're um when they're changing

the position of the cameras for instance when they're turning around and costume and makeup are looking at you they will they they will straighten your tie into all that kind of stuff stuff that you definitely could do yourself and occasionally you very loudly make that clear as well yeah i'm always doing it i know how to do a tie and then you try to show everyone that it turns out you don't you peanut yourself yeah it's it's incredible and they will straighten your cap and all that kind of stuff. And how does that make you feel when that's happening? I love it. And I always think, this is me. I'm actually quite pro this, I agree.

I think it could be quite a nice thing. You think, I'm not even going to have to think about that, I'll just stand there, someone will choose the outfit for me, pop it on, and I'm out about my day. I would prefer to put my own pants on. Yes. And socks. Maybe you could have a little bell when the pants are on you ring it and that's when they all come in. The team enter.

I'm ready for you. So let's get into the details of what this clothing all was. So the material of most things at that time including togas, unless you're very, very wealthy, most clothing in ancient Rome, and this panics me actually, was made of wool.

Okay. Now, if you've ever been to Rome in the heat of summer, it is panic-inducingly hot. And the idea of wearing essentially a woolen blanket Yes, good shunt. makes me feel really stressed. In the pre-deodorant age. In the pre-deodorant age. In the pre-deodorant age.

Imagine what? I never really thought about the pre-deodorant age. Oh, that is not going to be nice. They'll have used something weird, though, won't they? Like a sheep's head or something. Something that you rub on your underarm. Yeah, the pre-redox, pre-deodorant age. They were pre-redoxians, weren't they, the Romans?

So, that's on the top half, occasionally, for special ceremonies and stuff. Chris, you mentioned sandals, and I'm afraid that is also wrong. Ancient Romans wore converse all-stars. No, they didn't. They wore... They only actually wore sandals in the house. That's what they were for. Out and about, they wore boots.

But in the house, they'd wear sandals, but house. That's what they were for. Out and about they wore boots, but in the house they'd wear sandals, but not out and about. And they even wore them with socks like a sort of embarrassing uncle. Like a dad in a garden. Like a dad in a garden. Normcore is what they used to call it. I always thought the ancient Romans were

quite a cool bunch. You're quite advanced, sexy, you know, living a real life of hedonism. I didn't imagine them sort of walking around the house in sandals and socks. Yeah, that's really changed my opinion of the Romans. Oh, wow. Sandals and socks. What a shame. You don't see, there's not that scene in Gladiator, is there, where he's sort of pulling on his

socks and then his sandals. How that changes the dynamic of how heroic and cool he is. Yeah. How that changes the dynamic of how heroic and cool he is. Yeah. Because also, yeah, boots and woolen clothes, very warm. Ancient Rome in the summer, oh my God. Absolutely.

So woolen top, socks and sandals underneath, and they go out and about. Now, you asked, Ellis, what is the more everyday clothing? Okay, so the equivalent to the jeans and T-shirt in ancient Rome is something called the tunica, which is basically a sleeveless garment which is cut off at the knee and then your head popped through the top kind of a bit like a poncho i suppose really without sides but what really mattered in ancient rome wasn't the style of that garment it was the color that you that you died that showed your standing and basically how much money you had to spend and they used little stone island badge on the side of the little stone island badger yeah exactly yeah

but they use various things they use wine salt shells mosses lentils mushrooms vinegar wild cucumbers nuts barley malt plants bark roots berries flowers and slightly less pleasant this is how they got the coloring they use sheep urine and insects as ways of changing the color uh and basically depending on what you could afford that would kind of affect the color that you would you would get the insect thing i think i'd rather not know and the sheep's urine i think i've identified if that was i'd rather just not be told about that i think again it would be the smell if if if it had stopped smelling it would be far more palatable to me um i think my favorite coat for instance if someone told me oh you know prior to you buying that in the shop we'd actually dipped it in in goat's piss i'd be like well you know i've had it for six

months now and i've worn it i've worn it on a couple of nights out, and people have remarked how nice it is. So I think I could... It would be getting it straight from the shop with it still smelling of fresh goat's piss would be what I would find problematic. If it wasn't insect or goat's piss that you were going for, there was one colour that was held in more value than any other

color and that was purple okay purple was made um using these shells of sea snails and um crushed up and it was known as tyrian purple and it was a color worn by the emperor in fact in later years laws were passed that only the emperor could wear purple but there was an initial period where it could be worn by people if they could afford it but it was so expensive this stuff i'm going to tell you how this is mind-blowing okay so to buy a cloth which was coloured purple in the market would cost you 150,000 denarii, which is the same price in the market as an adult lion. That's the equivalent.

That's the equivalent of... I'm imagining husbands coming back from the market and saying to their partners, yeah, you know I said I was going to buy that cloth? I've found something even better. I hear a large roar from the garden what have you done steve so sorry but yeah 150 000 denarii to put that into perspective okay the maximum daily wage for a farm laborer was 25 denarii so to afford one of those it would have been 16 and a half years of non-stop work 365 days a year 16 and a half years of non-stop work at the maximum wage for a farm hand to afford one piece of this purple cloth

that's crazy would it be worth it? Well, for another podcast that I do, the Socially Distant Sports Bar, we have pod colours, yellow and purple. So we sell Socially Distant Sports Bar football shirts. So in our gigs, they just look like very, very wealthy Romans. That's incredible. I know what would happen. I would work for 16 and a half years i get my purple cloth i put it on and i'd immediately spill something down it yeah yeah i'd ruin it

you're going down the market chris okay there's a lion on one side the same price as a piece of cloth what are you going for let's be realistic here what are you going for in a weird way the lion is more practical scare off your enemies you know you going for? In a weird way, the lion is more practical. Scare off your enemies. You know, you've worked 16 and a half years on the farm. Get a lion. Chase out the owner. It's your land now. What are they going to do?

More to the point, Chris. You get the lion. You go back to the market the next day. I guarantee they'll give you whatever cloth you ask for. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I will let him off the lead. Hello.

I love the colour purple. and I've got a lion, so there's only one way this is going to work out, isn't it? Yeah. Do you remember when they dug up the... I say, do you remember when they dug up... This happened in, like, Victorian era. They dug up the old moat at the Tower of London and found in it the bones of lions and zebras and all.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when they're selling... You know, you just when they're set you know you just mentioned they're selling lions the guys who get the lions to sell that brave brave slash foolhardy lads that's uh that is a tough gig well there's there's an idiotic youtuber and i can't remember his name but he bought a tiger cub the other day and he had the tweet went viral and it was him sitting in the front seat of his sports car with his tiger cub on the passenger seat as if they're just going to go down to the

shell carriage to buy some petrol and he said yeah i've bought a tiger cub i am different to you and um i think my reaction was you're an idiot yeah yeah i think mike tyson had a tiger it's i just do i i am very very happy with lions and tigers staying where they're happiest yeah in their natural habitat i'm fine with that if you want to say when i lived at claire's sister's house with claire before we both bought our first flat we're there for six months waiting for this place to complete i lived with a cat for six months and I found that a bit much. Yeah, yeah. It was like a normal cat.

It really did my head in and it stressed me out a lot of the time. It would come and paw on my chest. The idea of waking up at half six and there's a lion on my chest and it wants its milk. Or whatever a lion eats. I think it's more meat-based. Meat-based. It wants to eat my head. This 400-pound jungle lion going,

where's the whole milk? Yeah. I'm a lion. I'm going to need more than a little bowl, mate. Let me tell you a little story about this cat I live with. This is one of my favourite things ever. Kate's cat got quite overweight, and they had to take it to the vet,

and the vet said, you need to improve its diet. It needs to eat better. It needs to eat less food. It's dangerous to be overweight. The day after that, we were sat in the living room and it came through the cat flap

holding a pan of chocolate. It's insane I had no idea where it got it from Well he had his own independent source of income And a latte Remarkable There's a bakery down the road

It must have just nicked it from the bakery come on mate you've already got a rep got that from a train station before the commute copy the metro sugar and a cup of coffee so once you'd bought

this cloth all you were left with although you paid 150 000 denarii for it was it was just a big bit of cloth that's what it was and it was considered the role of roman women to then turn that into clothing for the household that's what happened and even aristocratic aristocratic women were expected to oversee this work basically so you bring the cloth home your wife or um one of the females in the household would then turn that into clothes for you um there's one final thing that happened had to happen of course which is you had to keep your your wife or one of the females in the household would then turn that into clothes for you.

There's one final thing that had to happen, of course, which is you had to keep your clothes clean. So you'd spent all this money, you bought your toga, you bought your sackcloth, you bought whatever it was, and you need to keep it clean. And there was one way they dealt with this, there's one word, which was urine. That's how they kept their clothes clean, to take us back to that wonderful stuff again, which of course's full of ammonia just like modern cleaning products that's the idea but the way they collected it was bizarre so there were huge pots that lined the streets in ancient rome and when people were just going about their day they would just stop and piss in the pot in front of everyone so just down the streets there were pots everywhere so you'd urinate in the pot

in front of everyone and then you just get on with your day. And then at the end of the day, these pots would be collected and then taken to the laundry, poured into the bath there, the clothes would be chucked in. Someone who worked at the laundrette would then stamp over your clothes and then give your clothes back to you. Right. Yeah.

Let's get to the pot thing, the feeling on that. What's your... Well, as men, we've all gone to busy rhinos at football matches or gigs, for instance. Yeah. Weeing together doesn't bother me. My own urine doesn't bother me. And the urine of my children doesn't bother me. It's the collective urine of strangers is what bothers me. So if I could provide enough of my own urine,

I would find that far more acceptable than the urine of, you know, people who live down the street who I don't know by name. For some reason, it's other people's urine is what... Like, my son weeded on me the other day, and I was very, very sanguine about it. But if a bloke called Mark my son weed on me the other day and i was very very sanguine about it but if if a bloke called mark had weed on me i'd be like mate what's what's happening here the collective urine of strangers yeah good name for like a book on ancient rome yeah right

if i was gonna you know if i had to go out and collect urine that i would use the last place i would be looking is street urine yeah you go royal opera house maybe yeah or you could pay someone to sort of eat and drink really well in a really clean way an asparagus bun obviously citywide asparagus yeah no sugar puffs for you I'm afraid So that's what happened They pick up the pots They take them back And then someone would stamp over your urine

So clothed I don't mind putting your toga on I don't mind being one of those people But yeah I do not I don't want my job to be Working with The collective urine

Urine of strangers Yeah No thanks There you go Well that is clothing in ancient rome looking for a path to accelerate your career clear direction for next level success in a place that is innovative and practical a path to stay current and connected to industry a place where you can be yourself you will find it at y University School of Continuing Studies,

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So each time there's been a 60s revival since the original, the Winklepicker boot has returned. They were very big during the indie sleaze era in the 2000s. Especially a lot of the English bands used to wear Winklepickers. But they're not a unique fashion invention of post-war youth culture. In fact, the Winklepicker deliberately evoked, I had no idea about this, the Winkle Picker deliberately evoked... I had no idea about this. The Winkle Picker deliberately evoked a late medieval fashion phenomenon one that so vexed the authorities

they issued fines and edicts all to bring toe points back to a normal size. In medieval Britain? Yeah. Not in the 60s, obviously. You could wear what you wanted in the 60s. You'd be fined if your shoe was too pointy? Yeah.

So the grandfather Winkle Picker was a Krakow or the Poulain shoe, examples of which can be seen throughout medieval art and in the archaeological records from the 1100s onwards. So the names imply a Polish origin, perhaps in the city of Krakow. The point also gave rise to the name Pike. Now, the first to turn extremely pointy shoes into a fashion statement were the members of the French nobility, and they quickly spread this habit to other aristocrats across the continent,

notably their counterparts in 14th century England, where more traditional observers thought krakows to be an imported vice. So although initially popular with men, the style was eventually unisex. And if you've ever seen pictures Of the French nobility In their pointy shoes They're so pointy Like hilariously pointy So the style also had an impact on military costume

And metal points added to armoured shoes Which has a very practical purpose, isn't it? Yes Kicking someone Kicking someone with a very, very pointed metal shoe. I mean, that's going to cause some damage, even if you just get them in the shins. So, can I ask a quick question?

Yeah. Which is, so I think we can assume the toes are ending quite early in the point, aren't they? Yeah. So I don't know if you've ever worn shoes that are too big. It's a nightmare to walk around in them. yeah like for instance for example i remember as a child wanting to get and get something out in the garden but i can't find my shoes and putting my dad's shoes on oh yeah yeah and then you get such an effort clumping like two steps to go one step

forward basically it's it's as hard as when she shoes it's far too small for you yeah absolutely however i said that that made sense when the pointed shoes were metal points were tested in battle such as during the crusades were found to be cumbersome and even counterproductive so the points and pikes were then made detachable away from the battlefield though points good extent get this as much as 24 inches imagine having a toy but is that just like having a dagger on the end of your shoe yeah but it would be so uncomfortable so imagine this you're walking around and you've got a 24 inch point yeah on the end of your shoe i mean you'd have people wouldn't know you're entering a room about like 30 seconds before you come in

skis it's almost like skis also a common yeah like a common way for a fight to start in my hometown when i was a teenager was to be accused of standing on someone's foot at the bar oh yeah i forgot that was a thing wasn't it standing on someone's foot or someone's shoe at the bar, and then suddenly it's like the Wild West, and there's punches being thrown and tables being kicked over. If you were wearing 24-inch points, you'd be like, you're standing on my toe, mate, but in fairness, I brought this on myself.

Apologising to someone down the other end of the bar. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Listen, it's a busy pub, it's New Year's Eve, we're all standing on each other's shoes. Okay? If someone kicks off it's going to be chaos in here, so it's fine. 24 inches, causing the wearer

all sorts of problems when walking. Rye commentators pointed to a plague of bunions, which I suffer from. Thank you. Lovely medieval foot disease I've got. To get around the impracticalities, the points were tied up. The undersides were sometimes decorated as a further

statement of a fashionista. So you could kind of roll up the point and unfurl it when you get to the party, basically. Maybe when you're sitting down and then you would tie it up again if you're going

to the bar, going to get some cans. Okay. Because I've seen them sort of tied to the leg, which again appears to me as something that must be very uncomfortable, but still. In the 15th century, the battle against the Krakow, or the Krakow, began, culminating in the Cemetery Law,

passed by Edward IV in 1463, a law which imposed restrictions on the length of the pike for the poorest in society. So that is anyone below the status of a lord, no more than two inches. Wow. Okay. That seems reasonable. I wouldn't be gutted by that.

I'd be waiting for that law to come in. Yeah. What an absolute relief. Yeah. Oh, gutted. That's for the best. I think that's for the best. I wonder if it made taking your shoe off easier or harder.

Whether pulling on the end of this long point would mean they just slip off really, really easily. Or whether it just makes it a nightmare. It'd be very easy for someone else to take your shoes off wouldn't it i have a pair of high tops i find so hard to get off i routinely break into a sweat when i'm doing it i find it really stressful and as soon as i'm trying to get them off i immediately feel claustrophobic i feel when i get to the point when i'm about to take them off and i'm like i need these off me i feel panic they're still on me but i start to sweat as anyone who's met you will attest, you will do anything for fashion, won't you, Tom?

Absolutely. There is no feeling uncomfortable enough to stop you from looking fashionable. They're thigh-high Converse All-Stars. Thigh-high. In Scotland, there was no obvious effort to ban Krakows or Krakows

as there was in England. In fact, there may even have been some distaste for the style because it was so popular south of the border. But given the associations between shoes and clothes, restrictive century laws passed by the Scottish Parliament in the 15th century no doubt had an impact anyway. For instance, in 1458, it was ruled that no labourers or husbands wear any colour except grey or white on work days. And on holy days, only light blue, green or red, and their wives likewise. Wow. Only grey or white.

But as someone who wears identical polo shirts throughout his week, is it not part of you quite like that? Different colours, Monday, Maroon Day. Tuesday is a dark blue wednesday turquoise so you had to wear gray or white when you're at work well why wear your finest pointy shoes when the only when the only color you're allowed to don is gray or white yeah i mean the shoes really are going to pull focus and they another concern with these pointy shoes i'm imagining that period to be quite a boggy time it's quite

heavy peat and mud it's not like tarmac roads you're kind of so you're going along with these shoes which are twice the length of your foot maybe they are doubling up as skis maybe that is the you know it's so boggy and muddy essentially if you're heading into town activate the ski function off you go i love it heading into town as if you as if you're going on the raz you got a packet of fags you got you got a wallet full of cash you're like let's let's go for a drink okay when the french introduced a subtly long 1470 also imposing restrictions on the length of the point shoes quickly became more regularly toed even before 1480 the craco style was no more of course though an usual decoration of a shoe's

toe has never been entirely restricted to points as the famous pom-pom of the Greek Soruchi illustrates. But it is in China, with the upturned toe popular in the Ming Dynasty, 1368 to 1644 AD, that we find an echo of the medieval European enthusiasm for oddly-toed footwear. As in Europe, too, the undersides of the upturn were often decorated for further effect now the thing is having seen fashions change

in my lifetime because I'm 42 and I remember some of the stuff I thought was very cool when I was 10 and when I was 20 and when I was 30 and eventually obviously you kind of get into a groove and your clothing style doesn't really change that much I don't think. But, for instance, when skinny jeans came in, you know, 20 years ago or longer now,

because I was very, very heavily invested in the boot cut, I thought, you'll never get me wearing those. They look stupid. You'll never get me wearing those. They look stupid. And then within two years, the boot cut just looks like a mad person's decision. And it's like the sort of stonewashed jeans that were very popular in the 1980s

that you see young people wearing now. Because when I was young, they were the least cool item of clothing imaginable. When I see like a really trendy 23-year-old woman wearing those trousers, I just think, love, you've lost your mind. Take a look in the mirror. You're going to regret this. About seven years ago, I owned a pair of blue stonewashed jeans,

and I wore them to the last leg, and Josh Widdicom come ripped the piss out of me okay i defended myself to the high heavens then in the green room afterwards i was still trying to defend myself at which point alex brooker's dad walked in wearing identical jeans and all arguments collapsed I would describe it as the one thing I didn't need to have I remember in the 90s watching do you remember Heaven 17?

yeah they were on Top of the Pops on Friday night I think it was and they were singing Temptation and they were all dressed of the pops on friday night i think it was and they were singing temptation and they were all dressed up in like leather s&m gear and i remember thinking to myself this will never not be cool look at what you're wearing right now ch Chris. We can see you in your full leather. I'm Tuesday morning. The listeners don't know what you're wearing.

We can only see his eyes. He looks like he's in Cameo. Big leather cod beast. I'm ever thinking, I know tastes have changed over time, but this is a timeless look. This is cool right now, and it will always be cool. It wasn't even cool then. In about 1990, my cool friend, he had big sort of highlighter pen,

luminous yellow and pink Bermuda shorts, 10 luminous yellow and pink Bermuda shorts, a T-shirt with a cartoon of a duck wearing those shorts and with shades on with a surfboard, like smoking a cigarette. And then he had luminous yellow highlighter sort of pen colour sock on his left foot. And then on his right foot, it was luminous yellow. It was luminous pink there's again and then he had shades and one arm of the shades was sort of luminous

pink it was luminous yellow it was very very luminous I thought he looked so great and like he'd come he'd come over to play or something and then when his parents picked him up, as soon as he left, my dad said, what was he wearing? And I said, Dad, that's fashion. It will always be like this. That will never not look good, Dad.

Your bragging claim to fame that you are Wales' most fashionable boy is coming. Yeah, it was him. It's impressive. We find out the context around it. A boy who was dressed like a Like a Stabilo Boss highlighter pen.

He was so luminous. Everything was luminous. Everything. His trainers so luminous everything was luminous everything his trainers were luminous and he had all these t-shirts of different animals surfing he didn't surf he'd never been surfing

in his life for Pembrokeshire Council apparently the only man made things you can see from space to the Great Wall of China in that boy's outfit that's it

the only two things you can see from but are the Great Wall of China and that boy's outfit. That's it. The only two things you can see from... But that's the thing. But I'm now old enough to accept that we're all going to look back on how we... Like, when I was a student, I thought I looked good. And when I look back at the pictures, I look just daft, just stupid and daft. Yeah, so there we have it.

Pointy shoes of the ages. Yeah, so there we have it. Pointy shoes for the ages. Do you know what I thought is a cool hat? The fez. If you turn up to a party in a fez, people know you're a laugh. Yeah.

Chris is here. Here he is. Fun's about to start. You're either a laugh or possibly racist. One of the two. But either way, you can't wait to find out. Right, yeah. Do you know how Tommy Cooper... You know Tommy Cooper's obviously probably most famous for wearing a fez?

Yeah. The rumour was in the Second World War when he was serving, he was performing his act and he stole it off a waiter in Cairo just before he went on stage. That is a rumour. There's no agreed upon line. But the Fez actually has a history way, way prior to Tommy Cooper. So I'm going to talk about the role of the Fez in the Ottoman Empire. In the early 19th century, the Ottoman preference was for a sarik, which looks like a turban. And it was

given as a kind of, it was seen as a badge of authority. But eventually, in the early 19th century, it gave way to the Fez, driven primarily by the process of modernisation embarked upon by Sultan Mahmud II, who ruled the Ottoman Empire from 1808 until his death in 1839. And it was really to mark a contrast to his predecessor, the illustrious Sleiman the magnificent who ruled in the 16th century and was always seen depicted he was depicted wearing a very large white turban so he really wanted to change people from the turban to the fez as a way of seeing of kind of modernizing society in the ottoman empire what do they call that? A flagpole policy. Yeah.

This is going to be big. People are going to remember me for this. Yeah. Just pitch the hill to die on. They remember Sure Start. They remember increased investment in the NHS and the switch from the turbine to the face. The minimum wage. It's quite a decision to lead with a hat-based policy

is your major thing. Let's say, as Starmer tries to come into government at the next election, if his main thing is trying to ban the flat cap. Yeah. Or whatever. I want Britain to be a modern baseball cap-orientated society. Sultan Mahmud II,

he banned the wearing of turban in 1829 at court. The fez was the instituted headdress in its place. And obviously people have pointed out that there was a visual similarity between the fez and the recently developed top hat, which was running riot through European fashion in the 1820s. It's so impractical. Yeah. It doesn't even appear comfortable, the topper.

No, when horse is the dominant form of transport, you're bobbing around. That top, you know, your centre of gravity is all over the place. It doesn't really keep the sun out of your eyes either, does it? No, it's completely... It doesn't do that. The peak is so small.

At best, if you're hiding a rabbit, it's useful. Yes. It's great for the magician community. Everything else. Actually, on that, I mean, the turban obviously has a use in terms of shielding you from the sun. It does that. What is the Fez actually offering, really, in a very hot Moroccan climate?

It only really covers a tiny part of your head, doesn't it? Yeah. It leaves a lot of your head exposed it's not it hasn't got a peak so it doesn't shade you from the sun it's it's like the it's the worst hat for that weather isn't it surely what's it doing keep a cushion to that well i think that's true yeah it seems like its primary purpose was as a symbol of modernity uh in the ottoman empire in the 19th century but But interestingly, it quickly became, when the Ottoman Empire encountered, with greater frequency, Europeans,

the fez became, rather than a symbol of modernity, became an Orientalist motif, a stereotype. And it quickly seemed among Europeans that the fez was kind of old-fashioned. So it instantly, although it was created as a sign of modernity quickly became yeah old-fashioned a stereotype that i think you can see that i mean even now when you think of morocco it's one of those sort of slightly lazy images that people will go to in advertising or there's kind of nightclubs that are themed like you know themed around that sort of stuff it's always the fez it's always the thing that with a little tassel

from the top of it yeah exactly yeah yeah that's really interesting so the fez became seen as old-fashioned when kamal ataturk embarked on his own program of modernization after the first world war he launched his own hat revolution banning the fez in 1925. So once again, another leader coming to the forefront, instituting a hat ban. 1925, you've got, you know, it's only seven years after the First World War ended, six years after the Treaty of Versailles,

Britain is in the middle of an economic downturn. There's so much going on. To think of... The Wall Street crash is on the horizon. It's not far away. No, not far away. So much hat legislation. Getting bogged down.

Why are they so hat to hat upset? Getting bogged down in hat legislation. This is what happens at a time when people didn't have netflix and things to entertain themselves they become obsessed with things like hats because there's nothing to do back then but one uh in terms of hat evolution an interesting culture exchange happened between the ottoman empire and other parts of europe in the 19th century and that was the creation of the smoking cap it It was a tasseled soft hat, which was intended to be worn indoors as part of loungewear alongside the ubiquitous smoking jacket.

The idea was to avoid carrying the smells of tobacco smoke and offending the noses of women. So well-to-do men would don a completely different costume when smoking. So you had the jacket, which we're all familiar with, Hugh Hefner, but also a special smoking cap oh wow yeah uh one of the most famous i wish you saw that outside like pubs nowadays when people go out for a fag everyone's they're changing into a new outfit to do it i would be you know you know the smokers because they're all wearing sort of purple smoking jackets and

their hats they put on as they go out and take off again as they come back into the pub. One of the most famous proponents of the smoking cap was Italian revolutionary Giuseppe Garibaldi, who sported his smoking cap in public, you might remember. I'm sure I've seen pictures of him wearing a smoking cap. Often smoking caps are made and gifted like

mixtapes between partners and so had elaborate patterns sewn onto the fabric. Samuel Beaton, husband of the rather more famous Mrs. Beaton of cookery books and household manuals, included patterns in her Young Englishwoman magazine. Patterns for making your own smoking hat. Making your own smoking hat.

They were in vogue from the 1840s until the end of the century, long enough to feature in Sherlock Holmes stories, although by then they appeared on the heads of slightly doddery individuals. Yeah, the smoking cap. The death knell for the smoking cap in America came in the wake of the Civil War when the renegade Confederate president, Jefferson Davis, was a very well-known smoking cap wearer.

By the end of the century, it was surprise that americans thought of the smoking cap as an old-fashioned apparel and similar similarly also fell away the nightcap yeah i i i've i've never known anyone to wear a nightcap not even the very elderly i associate it with a ladybird copy of Wee Willy Winky that I had when I was a little kid. Scrooge. Scrooge, when you see he wears a nightcap. I suppose, yeah, central heating would have killed off the nightcap to a certain extent. I'm a side sleeper, in which case, where is the nightcap going? Is it going over my ear on the side of my head? Yeah.

Like, genuine question, because I lie on the side. So am I wearing the hat on the side of my head? Where nightcap going? Is it going over my ear on the side of my head? Yeah. Like, genuine question, because I lie on the side. So am I wearing the hat on the side of my head? Where am I going? Of course it's not going to go on top, because I'm sleeping on my side. How does it work? It was like a long... Or did it go over the top like a sock? Is that what it was like?

Yeah, yeah, it was like a big head sock. We're okay then. We're okay. Head sock. It's not a sexy look it's not a look that's leading to much sort of passionate lovemaking with your partner

you would know that if your partner was up for it because after you've brushed your teeth you'd go into the bedroom and they wouldn't have their nightcap on just yet the nightcap would be dangling over the end of the bed. Cockatish.

Yeah, exactly. And you think, I get it. I know what's going on here. That nightcap is full of Johnnies. Wow, so that was then people stopped wearing them. And once again, who knows, that might come back. Heating bills are rising. Yeah, of course.

You've got to keep yourself warm and also fashion especially over the last 60 years or so has proved to be so cyclical I just can't deny that anything is never

going to come back in yeah absolutely so yeah we might I'll meet you for a pint in about a year's time and you'll be wearing shoes with a 16 inch point yeah yeah

and a nightcap and S&M gear straight and a face borrowed directly from heaven. Heaven 17. I'll be in a purple toga claiming I'm the emperor. It'll be great.

Sounds quite fun, actually, to be honest. It does sound quite fun. So that is fashion. What a world we've lived in. What a strange and never-ending. Anyway, I'm going to put my luminous duck holding a surfboard T-shirt on now to go to the shops. Yep.

Need to buy some milk and butter and eggs. Looking pretty cool. So that's it. That's fashion. Thank you so much for listening to our first ever episode. Tom, if people want to get in touch with the show, how can they do it? They can email us on hello at oh what a time.com or they

can follow us on insta or twitter on oh what a time pod and if you have any subjects that you would like us to talk about any historical subjects do send them in and also any crazy historical facts that you think we've missed send those across as well yes great shout and don't forget uh to leave us a five-star review. Other podcasters usually say this point because it helps people who might not have heard the podcast to find it.

That's true in a way, but really, let's face it, I need the validation. There's some sort of, I don't know what, some damage occurred in childhood. I don't know why. I don't know what. My parents were very good to me. I need the validation of complete strangers, people I'll never meet.

I'm a confidence player. I always have been. I need an arm around the shoulder. And to just see five to six hundred five-star reviews, it helps me sleep at night. It improves my relationship. It improves my parenting. Also, if this podcast becomes very successful,

it would really help Tom out because he's overstretched himself on the mortgage. Also, our producer said something about algorithms, which we don't understand, but clearly it matters. So please do leave us a review and also join us next week where we'll be back for yet more historical fun.

Thank you so much for joining us on episode one we'll see you guys soon bye