Oh What A Time... - #26 Blunders (Part 1)

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

This week on the show we're chatting: BLUNDERS! From the worst sponsorship deal ever to darken German ice hockey, an author's worst nightmare come true, the demise of Frederick Barbarossa; and this week's bonus bit is big balls ups in the Roman Army. A Police detective emailed this week to say he'd like to go back and solve a great mystery with his One Day Time Machine. And we have a host of GREAT FEATURES for you to get in touch about: THE ONE DAY TIME MACHINE, HOW WOULD YOU IMPRESS SOMEONE IN 500AD and of course DO YOU HAVE A RELATIVE OF NOTE? Want to contribute to any of our INCREDIBLE format points? Do let us know at: [e-mail] This is Part One (Part Two will be out tomorrow), but if you want both parts now, why not become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 to support the show, you'll get: - the 4th part of every episode and ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - a bonus episode every month - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). And thank you for listening! We’ll see you next week! BYE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Looking for a collaborator for your career? A strong ally to support your next level success? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time, a history podcast that tries to decide if the past was as impossibly rubbish as it seems. I'm Tom Crane. I'm Chris Scope.

And I'm Ellis James. Each week on this show, we'll be looking at a new historical subject. And today we're going to be discussing blunders. Blunders. Frederick Barbarossa's major error and the huge mistake made when writing the most important history book ever written. Dodgy sponsorship in the West German Ice Hockey League and a bonus bit, balls ups in the Roman army. We all agreed we love blunders. Can't get enough of them. Yeah. I've got a book, The Blunders of Government. Oh, have you?

Like, yeah, yeah, various blunders that the British government have committed over the past few hundred years. Give us one quick blunder, a favourite blunder from that book. Very, very quick. I'm trying to think of a... I think sort of Black Wednesday and Britain falling out of the ERM in 1992 was quite a good one. There's a great bit in Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain

where they don't know what's happening with the markets and it's pre-internet. Right. So they don't know what's going on. Yeah. It's like major unheard. All the main, and Lamont, all the main players are sitting there going, oh God, what should we do? What should we do? Until one of themard, and Lamont, all the main players are sitting there going,

oh, God, what should we do? What should we do? Until one of them says, why don't we turn on the radio? And they're like, yes, the radio! By God, he's got it. Of course, the radio. Turn on Radio 4. Do you not think in years to come, maybe even centuries to come,

Liz Truss will be a historic name as a classic blunder of a prime minister? Either forgotten, completely forgotten in a pub quiz question, or the ultimate blunder merchant. One thing that's really struck me is, because she is a former prime minister, she gets all of the benefits of being an ex-prime minister, despite only having done it for how many weeks it was. I think it was 44 days, wasn't it? Then you have to ask the question, was it really a blunder?

Or was she playing a fantastic long game? Good point. Because you get a lifetime salary, you get a security detail, you get invited to all the major affairs of state you get to do good corporates because even if you're a bad prime minister you've still been the prime minister so you get to do good corporates you get to be directors

for big companies and lots of money I mean she's a genius any job that you took if they were foolish enough to let you know that in the interview I would have quit within 12 hours who is actually sticking with the job let you know that in the interview i would have quit within 12 hours who is actually sticking with the job so i would actually say in the interview not to sort of give you a not a precursor of what's going to happen tomorrow i definitely will still be coming

in but just to double check will i still get paid you're saying you're saying i will continue to get paid the same wage for the rest of my life whether i I stick at this job or not. Okay, great. I'll still be coming in. Is that what you do when you're Prime Minister? Come in. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I've got to go into work, actually. All right, I'm the Prime Minister.

Because I wasn't going to admit this. I wasn't going to let people know this, because obviously it's not great for Tom. But Tom only ever did one day on the last leg in Series 1. and he's continued to be paid a full last leg writer's salary this is 2012 when tv actually had money and that sort of thing was in all the contracts yeah yeah it's keeping me you've been completely idle for 12 years my week is i spend 98 of it in my lazy boy chair and then i get up to record this that's what my uh that's what my life is and i'm just living off my uh my last leg pension um a former former

prime minister i've just made just a double checked i was right on this former prime minister gets 115 000 pounds per year for life yeah fine yeah yeah there was talk there was talk wasn't it that she shouldn't accept it because she was Prime Minister for such a short period of time. Also, how many secrets did she get to know in that 44 days? They would have got round all the best secrets, wouldn't they? If Tom was appointed Prime Minister and he's like, can I just get all the secrets now?

I think that might be the important bit. Tom, you've got cabinet meetings. No, no, no, no. Just tell me everything quickly, quickly quickly can we do secrets into lunch books of quick secrets everyone everyone tells their secrets really really fast and i promise i won't record it on my phone i would say if you if you are still getting to grips with where stuff is in number 10 and where the cutlery is if you've been there short time, you've still got opening cupboards that you think contain the hot press, and it's like, oh, no, that's just a toilet or whatever. You haven't been there long enough to pick up any important secrets.

She's still in an Airbnb frame of mind. It's like, that's bowls. Sorry, I always think that's mugs, but it's bowls. In our house, bowls are there, and it's the other way around to my house. Sorry, sorry. She didn't get a deposit back on number 10. I have genuinely thought about that.

One of the annoying things would have been she'd have had to move all her stuff in to number 10 and then 44 days later move it all out again. What a annoying thing to have to deal with. Do you think it was the same removal men who put it in as took it out? Hello, Liz. Hello again. Some of the stuff's still in the boxes with front room written on the side.

She's meant to take it out. There's like a lamp that's still wrapped in plastic. Bathroom brackets, Liz. That's so true. Solid conditioner. No one has ever unpacked to a house move within yeah absolutely that is definitely would have five five boxes in the spare room and just have a question mark on it yeah and all the time my husband's saying and you definitely get paid this for life

um it's actually i've found i've stumbled upon a table so you can claim up to 115 000 pounds a year john major tony blair they claim the full amount every year lads gordon brown always claims about 400 pounds short of the full amount every every year for the last four years why david cameron goes about eight grand under he doesn't claim the full amount 400 quid from gordon brown is not enough of a drop to yeah what sort of point are you making there uh theresa may claimed about 60 60 000 in 2021 80 000 2022 and then last year right up to the right yeah yeah that's other words he's like why are you not claiming this Liz Trust last year only claimed £23,000 I don't know if that was because

it's going to creep up they always creep up she'll be claiming Gordon Brown's £400 as well trust me it's going to creep its way up anyway do you think within that £23,000 is the removal then

they are quite expensive. Shall we get on to some correspondence before we kick into this episode? Chris, what have we been sent this week? We've had so much to choose from, but I'm going to go with this one. This one from Lewis Young. He says, hiya fella, I'm a detective from Leicester and a big fan of the pod. My favourite... That's a great start. I'm a detective from Leicester and a big fan of the pod. My favourite... That's a great start.

I'm a detective from Leicester. And there's a detective lilt to this email. So he says his favourite segment and the Globe's favourite segment is, of course, One Day Time Machine. He was going to email about how the time machine could be used to discover places that we aren't sure ever existed, like Atlantis. But it doesn't take more than a quick Google search to realise such a place never existed. Yeah, that would have been... You'd jump in the One Day Time Machine, punch in Atlantis but it doesn't take more than a quick google search to realize such a place never existed yeah that would have been if you jump in the one day time machine punching in

Atlantis and then just as you just hear a pop and smoke start coming out the control system yeah yeah or you just end up at sea yeah this is rubbish or it's always just be like on a sat nav when you're trying a postcode and it just doesn't recognise it and you're just having to try different options. Atlantis Road, Atlantis Central. Trying postcodes that start with A. So he says that here's what he's going to do instead of his one day time machine. He's going to go

back to find out what happened to the complete collapse of society and humanity around the Bronze Age. Around 3,200 years ago, nearly all ancient civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean and Near East region were wiped out in a widespread collapse that was likely sudden and violent. And what followed was the Greek Dark Ages.

And nobody really knows what happened. He says if it was sudden and violent, he'd probably quite like to go back and be a coffee table in this pit. Yes, good shout i don't think that's incredibly brave yes like it's always like the mary celeste and these things that are great mysteries but something dodgy really happened do you really want to go back also the reason the the films of societies entering total collapse are so popular is because it's so extreme and there's such jeopardy there.

I'm not sure I'm brave enough to, under my own volition, go to a society that's about to enter total collapse. If anyone is going to go back and work out why things are collapsing is a detective from leicester yeah this is the guy who's got the skills to investigate and come back with the answers whereas if we went back we just go it was mad it was all just i don't know what was happening but it was on fire it was bloody horrible people running around with axes he'd have his little pad and uh yeah he'd be doing his test and he'd come back with the answers i do know what you mean though that idea of descending to a point in history of utter mayhem is is a brave choice

if you're going to get on the one day time machine is that is a brave choice i i don't think i have that i don't have that no also i think the think The Monday Time Machine Would feel like an exciting thing To these people And if they're already In a sort of Looting Pillaging Mindset

This exciting Shiny Thing appears With lights and sounds They're gonna They're gonna want a bit of it They're gonna want in I do like this idea though

Of using the time machine To solve A great mystery Oh definitely Like You could go back And catch Jack the Ripper, potentially. Yes. You could hang her... I mean, that would be brave. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's a great idea.

I'm immediately chickening out of that idea. I don't know, you could have a modern gun or something. Yes. Or, again, these are our rules. you could be invisible for an hour yeah uh you just follow him back see where he goes back you could have some sort of superpower you could uh strangle him with uh i don't know web that's coming out of your wrists i mean there's you've got all of all of the options we're not we're not we're not curtailing anyone in this yeah absolutely well there you go if there's a mystery you want to solve and think of it is there one we're not we're not we're not curtailing anyone in this yeah absolutely well

there you go if there's a mystery you want to solve and think of it is there one we're missing you can go back and use the one day time machine and here's how you can get in touch with the show all right you horrible lot here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at owhattime.com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at owhattimepod.

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the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 or older. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca So, for this, an episode I've looked forward to an awful lot because

I am fascinated by blunders, cock-ups, mishaps. I will be discussing Frederick Barbarossa, the Holy Roman Emperor, and his fatal cock-up. What are you going to be discussing, Tom? I'm going to be talking about one of the greatest blunders

in the history of writing. So, it's during the writing of one of the most important books on history of all time, there was just a fun... What 2010 edinburgh show your 22 exactly which was a blunder from start to finish the second greatest blunder of all time behind ellis's it's a phenomenal story uh it just blew my mind and also heartbreaking and then at the end of the show, for the Oh What A Time full-timers, I'm going to be doing an additional bit on the history of Roman military blunders. And I will be telling you right now

about the worst sponsorship deal in the history of West German ice hockey. I don't know how many would be on that list, but this one really sticks out. 1987. A West German ice hockey team based in Eissalon in southeast Dortmund was facing imminent bankruptcy. A chairman had gone out and bought loads of expensive stars

and then faced the reckoning when the bills arrived. A classic tale from sport, of course. A kind of proto-West German Peter Ridsdale, if you will. The man in charge was club chairman Heinz Weifenbach. This is what he looked like. This is how he's described. A round-bellied, cigar-puffing, leather-jacketed, mustachioed man who had made his money in property development and construction in the 1970s.

He was known locally as, you can probably guess this, Big Heinz. Yes. Big Heinz. That's a great nickname. Do you know what, though? The Germans, I always think, are actually very similar to the English when it comes to nicknames and stuff. Like if he was Spanish or Italian, he'd be called, I don't know,

the horse with too many bellies. There'd be slightly more of a flourish to it. He wouldn't just be called Big Heinz, like Big Jeff. Would you not be tempted to use something, you know, the Heinz product as the basis for the nickname, call him Beanie Boy or something like that? Or Mr. Ketchup. Big Beans.

Big Beans. Mr. Ketchup. Beanie boy Either of those two Feel fun don't they I'd be delighted If I was called Beanie boy

I'd absolutely take that On Mr Ketchup That would be great Nick But you feel like a fun guy One of his players Later recalled That he looked like Something right out

Of a mafia movie Yeah And then one day In the locker room Just before a game He turned up Pulled a gun on the team And said come on Get warming up as if that would inspire them to a great performance yeah no thanks so it's 1987 boys your ice hockey team is skint they're about to go out of business

you've bought too many foreign players too many expensive players you can't pay the bills the the the foreclosing is upon you what do you do who do you call for help i imagine that the sports governing body are very very unsympathetic to my water hour plate yeah a huge loan out with the uh the central bank is that way is that where he's going no what about libyan dictator colonel gad Oh, yeah, that's the other option, yeah. Okay, right. Oh, you wanted the obvious option. Sorry, I didn't know.

Sorry. Wife and back, Big Heinz comes up with the idea of approaching Colonel Gaddafi. Oh, dear. They strike a deal where Gaddafi will give him the money on the condition that he gets the shirt sponsorship. Right. This is amazing. I knew Gaddafi was into sport.

He's got a rich history, specifically in football. He actually was a shareholder in Juventus for a period of time in 2002. I didn't know that. And in 2005, he nearly bought Manchester United. Wow. He was involved in a bid to buy Manchester United. The understandable grief that clubs get nowadays with having gambling companies on the front of their shirts,

the idea of having Gaddafi trying to squeeze that through with the FA. And also the FA saying, listen, you can have Gaddafi's name on the shirts, but not for the kids' shirts. Not for the kids' shirts. In the same way that kids aren't allowed to have beer sponsors on their shirts. Until they get to, I think it's 12.

Once you're 12, you can have Heineken on your shirt, but you can't if you're under the age. They can have Gaddafi as long as it's over the age. Yeah, 14. We'll set a different limit for Gaddafi 14 are the kids allowed sort of softer level dictators on their shirts out of interest is there some kind of hierarchy of some Victor Orban exactly yeah yeah so yeah Gaddafi yeah tried to buy Manchester United in the 1970s Gaddafi banned block boxing right he said with no sense of irony that it was too violent okay he actually wrote about this so gaddafi wrote this book called the green book

which was his personal political philosophy in the book talking about boxing he says the thousands who crowd stadiums to view applaud and laugh they are foolish people who have failed to carry out the activity themselves and line up lethargically in the stands to applaud so yeah at a moment people watching boxing like you don't deserve to watch boxing because you're just you're just lazy and just going there to watch it you need to be involved with it if you're gonna that's the same kind of thinking that um leads to people saying we need to bring back national service isn't it we've gone soft as a society isn't it we've gone soft as a society whenever anyone says we've gone soft as a society

I always say yeah it's great but is it true is that the way is that the reason you play five-a-side football as well as going to watch it because you can turn to the fans in the stand and go I do that as well so I have every right to comment I'm the same as them I kind of

get it because I play with a load of'm the same as them I kind of get it because I play with the Lord of Dads on a Thursday night, I kind of get this Should the ghost of Colonel Gaddafi descend on a football stadium he will look at you shouting at the players and say he's fully within his rights to do that. Yeah exactly he gets it. So the deal between

Gaddafi and Waffenbach was that the sponsor's logo, the sponsor logo that appeared on ECD Iserlohn's jerseys would belong to Gaddafi and Waffenbeck was that the sponsor's logo the sponsor logo that appeared on the ECD Isodlons jerseys would belong to Gaddafi and he could have what he wanted on it so Gaddafi having done the deal said right this is what's going to appear on the shirts an advert for Gaddafi's green book which again which is his personal political philosophy that had been published a few years previously and waffenbeck said sure so there's a picture i'll make sure this goes up on our instagram and i'll send it to you now yeah just so you can see it an advert for das grüne buch i'm not sure how my german's holding

up there but a green book and it says m gaddafi so it's like a little cartoon picture of the Green Book in German. Das Grünbuch with M. Gaddafi written at the top. This is what the players were forced to wear as part of a sponsorship deal to essentially save the club. Wow. I mean, that's mad, isn't it? It's like a little cartoon Green Book. There it is. So obviously, everyone went crazy about this the the the outcry from the west german

authorities not least because a year before 87 in 86 had been the berlin bombing which had been carried out by libyans at la belle disco and had killed several u.s marines these these memories were fresh in everybody's minds so nobody could quite believe that Waffenbach, Big Heinz, had done this insane deal with Gaddafi to offer up a sponsorship slot for this ice hockey team. So, yes, the West German authorities were stamping down at Lope. Newspapers as well were out to get him. The Ice Hockey Federation said that no club should associate itself with terrorism. But Waffenbach didn't see what the fuck was about.

He had $900,000 in his skyrocket. Classic beanie boy. Oh, Mr. Ketchup. Big Heinz thought, I've done a sweet deal here. Yeah. So, yeah, he didn't see any issue with it. And the first time the team went out with their new sweaters on, they won a thumping victory.

The new dictator bounce that you hear so much about. So the players, on the other hand, were like, can we really do this? The players in the locker room held a vote. Do we go with the new jerseys and face the prospect of every game going there with riot police at the door and continuing this outrage that has fallen upon us?

Or do we go back to our old jerseys and accept that the club was doomed to fail? Guys, what did the players vote? Did they go with the Gaddafi shirts? I think that I'm going to put my faith in player power and player revolt, and they said, we're not doing this. They said, Big Hinds, stick these shirts up your massive bottom. Fair play.

They turned their back on Gaddafi. They said, we're going back to the old jersey. And they played skins. And, of course... Tops off ice hockey. That's brave, isn't it? Imagine. And of course, they went under.

That was it. That was it. But Gaddafi said. Yeah, yeah. So they said, no, we're going back to the old jerseys. That was the end of the scene. They went bankrupt shortly afterwards. Wow.

Gaddafi, meanwhile, invited journalists uh off the back of this scandal to one of his famous Bedouin tents in Libya and told the tale of having watched an ice hockey game on television using a VHS recording and said this is non-violent this ice hockey I'm watching here has he watched ice hockey he tried to imply that he was basically a fan of ice hockey but when he got chatting to another journalist he made some sort of in in the course of the conversation it was clear that he didn't really know the difference between ice hockey and tennis right and so the journalist easy mistake to make came to the conclusion that Gaddafi had never heard of ice hockey he didn't know what he was on about but just saw this as a huge opportunity to basically create a bit of a fuss

and get his name in the papers. That's incredible. I have a question for both of you as football fans. Chris, obviously you're a West Ham fan. Ellis, you're a Swansea fan. You can choose for one book to be advertised on the front of your respective shirts. What book are you having on the front of a Swansea shirt and what book are you having on the front of a West Ham shirt?

The Gruffalo. The Gruffalo. The Gruffalo. Would absolutely buy that shirt. Because Julia Donaldson must be absolutely minted. And if we had Donaldson behind us, we'd be one of the richest clubs in the world, I reckon. Every one of her books flies in the world I reckon every one of her books flies off the

shelves yeah I'd change our name to Gruffalo FC and Ellis there's a shirt that kids can wear you say they can't have

exactly they can have the Gruffalo what about you Chris anything we lift up flaps So that's the end of part one Part two will be with you tomorrow If you want part one and part two

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We'll be back for part two tomorrow. Thank you.