Oh What A Time... - #59 Dinner Parties (Part 2)

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed from yesterday! This week on the show, it’s a veritable feast as we discuss some of the most infamous dinner parties from history. We’ve got the super-sweet suppers that the teenage Emperor Elagabulus loved to throw, the horrendous story of the Black Dinner at Edinburgh Castle in 1440 and finally, we’ll hear what spectators saw when they gathered round to watch Louis XIV eat his massive daily dinner. Lots of chat this week about stocks, pillories and the nature of Rod Stewart’s massive train set. If you’ve got anything to add on that or anything else, please do get in touch with the show: [e-mail] You can also follow us on:  X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). And also, thank you so much for subscribing; we couldn’t make the show without you! Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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No prescription required. This product may not be right for you. Always read and follow the label. Sisto Plus and Logo are registered trademarks owned by Norwell Consumer Health Care Inc. And this is part about entertainment in the past. I'm going to take you back to the 1600s and the 1700s, where famously I don't think there's a lot to do. There's not a lot to entertain yourself with. But what if I told you? You could go and watch the king eat a massive amount of food. You go in, you sit there, you watch as a spectator, the king. What?

Just a spectator? So what date is this? Sorry? 16th, 1700s, the reign of Louis 14th. Do you know what? The son king of France. I was about to say no and then I remembered Manvis's food, which is I used to watch it on tele. I've even seen it live. That's a really good point. Just a bloke in a restaurant in Alabama eating spicy wings. It's quite a failure. With that show,

there is an element of competitive eating. I mean, is it's just, I don't know. I shouldn't assume. You tell me. You th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tel th th th th. You th th th th th. You th. You th. You th. You tel th. You th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the thi. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I to th. I'm to. I'm tell. I'm. I'm. I'm. I to. I to. I'm. I to. I to. I to. I to. I th. I th. I th. of competitive eating. I mean, it's, I don't know, I shouldn't assume. You tell me whether what I'm about to describe to you could be classed as competitive eating. Okay. The thing about Man Vosus' food is it's quite stayed, isn't it? He goes to a restaurant like any other patron, he will sit down and he will eat a disgusting amount of food. But what you've got with Louis 14th is is is is the outfits, you've got the hair, you've got, you know, the Palace of Versailles.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing is excess in every direction. I also never remember him failing on Man v. Food. So if the target was, it was some ridiculously sized burger that only six people in history of finished and it's also covered in the kind of spicy sauce that would give you know normal people a heart attack he would struggle but he in my memory would complete the challenge pretty much every time yeah yeah do you think if you were just going out for like a meal with the guy from

man versus food is there an element where... As a rich is, isn't that his name? Yeah. Yes, that's right. Is there an element in that meal where you're like, go on, mate, come catch your legs. Why do you get too, get too dessert? You're getting a stop watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thah. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. th. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that's. that's. that's a karaoke you're like yeah yeah this is this is your thing yeah yeah yeah come on me I want to see can we can do go on disgust me we just won't come

back here are you bringing along a t-shirt that you've knocked up skull ahead of the meal out which says you know Adam Rich has finished his second course in less than a minute or whatever you can say you can win this Adam. Yeah if you get that burger and chips down you in less than 60 seconds go. If you sit down for the meal when he just goes I'm not hungry I'll have a soup you just like alpha come on yeah yeah come on I'm in training actually no yeah didn't he quit didn't he mad versus food he did he did he did come on the pressure the pressure the the the the the the the the he he he he to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the te. te. the the the the the try. the try. te. try. try. I te. try. I to te. I te. He's. He's man versus food? He did. Come on, Adam. The pressure of the rest of his life. He became known as the guy. He just needed to get away from it. And also, I think doctors took him to one side and said,

not at me. You can't. I know it's a living, but you're not going to live. This is not OK, Adam. tablets in less than 30 seconds. Well this is kind of what's astounding about Louis 14th. The thing that I keep coming back to with everything I'm about to tell you is he lived to the age of 76 and this is in like he was born in 1638 died 1715 and that's a really old age at the tie. It is yeah and also when you consider what I'm about to tell you about his eating habits. It's astonishing and I know he had a little health but 76 is mad. So during the reign of Louis 14, the son king of France, food was like, it's an

important part of his daily ritual. I'd say it goes beyond that. I would say it's like almost his reason for existing. Right. So his first meal of the day as part of the grand leather, the big wake up, it kicks off at 8 a.m. This is what he the the their., he's going to really ramp up. He has a cup of broth, he has some bread dipped in wine, which I guess like I first I thought that's disgusting but then I guess it's a bit like, it's balsamic vinegar isn't it? It's like pro samos. Yeah, maybe a bit of hot chocolate. What's the continental breakfast? It's a continental breakfast. Yeah, he's on hold in Portugal. Although, I think in that situation, it's embarrassing when you're reaching for the wine and dipping your bread and tapin the continent.

If you're staying at Hilton, whatever. And there's other family around here. The nice, you met the thoomomomomom family family family family family family family family family family family family family family family family that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's thating the Riyokka. I wonder if that's nice. It's a bit of sourdome wine. Maybe it would be nice. Well for me, olive oil and balsamic with bread and a bit of salt is one of my favorite things in the world. I can imagine that is nice. Would you go white or red white to dip the bread in? Obviously it have to be red and you have to add a little bit of salt. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. to. to. to. to. to. to to to to to the to to the to to the to the to the to to to to the to to to to to to to to the the the to to to to add. to the the to add. the the the to add. the the to add. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho That'll be mine. All right, bloody Anthony Worrell Thompson over there. As I say Alice, as we've recovered already, I like to cook, I like to host dinner parties. So if you like salted red wine, he comes to the man of cuisine. Lunch or the petticover, the little cover, is an all to-cover, is it simpler again? So he has again, this is in private. So at this point, you can't, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the th. the the the thi. the the the thi. the the the. the the try. the the. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, so at this point you can't expect, you can't, there's no spectators for this, but he will, for lunch he's having eggs, salad, soup, and so on, light, sufficient to hold off the appetite until the evening. So he's at this point lunch and breakfast, I'd say he's preparing for what's to come at

dinner. Okay. In practice, although he's eating eggs, in practice he does he, he typically, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, to eat, toe, told, told, is too, is too, is too, is is too, is too, is is too, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is sui, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is to, is to, is to, is to, is toe. He, is toe. He, is toe. He's, is toe. He's, is toe.a, is toe.a, is toe.a, is.a, is. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. too, is more at lunch than at dinner, it's reported, which is amazing when you're about to hear what he has for dinner. But at dinner, his sister-in-law once remarked, he could eat four plates of soup, a whole pheasant, a partridge, a large plate of salad, two slices of ham, mutton, au jue, with garlic, a plate of pastry, all followed by fruit and hard-boiled eggs. The Grand Couver, the dinner followed. Is the main thing. Hard-boiled, yeah, hard-boiled eggs. The Grand Couverne. Bours of soup?

Yeah. Come on, mate. Well, I suppose it's a harvester, you know when you go to harvest it in the salad bowl. I think you're filling up on the wrong thing if you're having four balls of soup before your main course. But I guess it's a liquid isn't it? Yes, I don't know. Does it count towards the food portion? Yeah, but it's not liquidy enough. Like I've never thought of myself, God, I'm gonna piss all this soup out in a minute.

It's soup thirst quenching? That's an interesting question. I've never thought I'm thirsty, I fancy some soup. So it's obviously not, it's not filling that category, is it? Yeah. Like you read about those, um... Why isn't it? Why isn't it? He read about those people to do ultra-marathens in in the the the the the the the thins in thins in thins in the sa-stins in the sa-stins in thins in the sa-s in the desert. The marathon disarble in the Sahara desert. None of them have got big flasks soup to keep me going. But you think that'd be a good idea because it's a meal and drink. It is! Because if you're running for four hours, or five hours in the heat, maybe you'd want... Now that's insane. I've run a marathon. I didn't think I'm starving. I'm playing football. I'm playing football the'll take a big flasker soup with the instead of my customary bottle of water. Does that sound? Put it to the test. You remember the scenes of the Irish team at USA 94, Jack Chalton, passing flasks

of soup over to Steve's daunt in the heat. Go on have some cockiliki. Generally, if there are any scientists listening, why isn't soup thirst quenching? I'm genuinely intrigued. Why have I never had a sip of soup and gone, oh, that hits the spot? That's exactly what I need is. That's a boiling hot quench my first. Gaspacho would be a great contender, right?

But it's the same. Yeah. I can see why custard isn't. That's sort of, that's clearly a pudding. It's, but the... It's an argument for Gaspacho catching on as a drink, though. In the way that Custad is there, you know. You might have hit something here, Chris. It's a new isotonic drink. A chilled gispacho. The O'Brien's Side Food.

The O'Brien Coday's Coffee that big evening meal at the Palace of Versailles, the Queen's apartments. It's held in a specially designated room. It is the most ritualized of all the meals served at Louis XIV's Court. Service begins at 10 p.m. The doors open, the people are queuing outside, they come on in and they're there to watch the king and his guests eat a vast selection from a dinner service that was designed as much for spectacle as for consumption. This is a piece of regular entertainment that happens most days. So it opens up, you come in, you take a seat. What you see is 324 people forming the service de bouche, the service of the king's mouth, and this 324 person team are responsible for creating the King's meals. There's lots of... So I'm imagining like the biggest buffer you've

ever seen in your life are a really top-end hotel I imagine. Yes. You've got the pan of tree charged with taking care of the cutlery, tablecloth and the bread. The on chancenery bush. They're charged with looking after the wine and the water. See all these different departments looking after various different things. Interesting that soup isn't in that category once again showing that it's not seen as a thirst quenching liquid. It's not in the wine water category, it's separate. Well, there is the potage de la cuisine bush. There's a whole team. Theythey've only got soups. Oh, but wine and water, that's a separate department. You've got the Matricue de la cuisine bush. They've got meat and poultry. The hautea de la cuisine bush, preparing the roast meats.

The patissier de la cuisine bush de roe, they're looking after the pastries, the forrier looking after the fire and the fireplace, the guard mubel, the the the the the the their chalaa the the their chalaa, the the the the the the the theyantea, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theeeeae, the their theeaicier, their their their their their their their their their their de'e, their their their their their their their their their their their, their their.eouououououououououououeououe, theire, theire, theire, theire, theire, theire, theire, theire, tou.eou.eou.eou.eou.eou.eileteau, treee, treee, tou.e, treee, treee, tou.e, treee, treee, treee, tthe fireplace, the Guard Mubel charter replacing anything that was broken on the table. So there's like the AA. There's like the AA at this dinner service waiting for things to go wrong. The Hussia de la Sal, the ushers, basically of the dining room, the officers desudu de de la Mashon de Roy, their chartered were taken away unwanted food and offering bowls of water to guests to wipe their hands. Oh that's a nice touch. I'd quite like that. It's a thing in a restaurant, that could be quite useful. Yeah, like a Chinese restaurant.

Yeah, exactly. Someone just pops up with a bowl, little wash of the hand, disappears again. I went to a 40th couple of weeks ago, andtimes during that party. You need it. You need it. Was that because you couldn't get rid of cake residue from your one cake sitting or because you kept going back for cake? Keep going back. Okay, right, yeah, love your cake. He loves his cake. Little cake boy. So I've gone through some of the departments. That list is not exhaustive, but the King's drinks. But the king's drinks alone, you had 30 servants managing the king's drinks. And then also you had another 30 servants for managing the non-royal guests.

And there was also Chef de la Enchancery Common, who served the wine to the secondary tables. Everything is made fresh. I mean, you kind of see why the royalty gets overthrown. The excess of this. Everything's made fresh according to season. So fish is brought in from the coast of vegetables and rice grown in the vast gardens of Versailles and the thrown to peas and asparagus. Now that's going to become important. Ellis you're going to love this one about to tell

you. Unfortunately for Louis and his many guests, not to say all the spectators watching the Grand Couvet, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the king, the the the the the the the, thi, thi, thi, toe, toe, and toe, too, too, too, to say, to say, to say, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to too, and to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, and toe, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the the the thee, the thee, isusususususususususususususususususususususususususus, the, toe, toe, toe, Grand Couve, the King had serious digestive problems, partly because he had lost all his teeth. This meant that he could not chew his food properly, if at all. And this consequently is leading to, as many people say, really noxious farts. Oh my god. So are you saying that he's just basically putting it his mouth, Louis, and then just... I guess he's gumming it a bit... Swa it down with liquid, yeah. He's surely, it is is is is surely, it is surely, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's th. It's, it's, it's th. It's th. th. Oh, it's th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. Oh, tho- Oh, tho- Oh, tho- thi. Oh, thi. Oh, th. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, th. Oh, thi. Oh, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that he's just basically putting it in his mouth, Louis, and then just having to try and swallow it down with liquid, yeah. He's gumming it a bit, but then also... This is why he's so pro-soup. He's putting a lot of pressure on your gums. the 14th, just bear in mind, he's eating loads of asparagus. the 14th, he's eating the thousaaa's, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th,this, Louis 14th famously never washed. In his entire lifetime he is known to have taken just three

baths. That is horrific. Instead of bathing, he would just douse himself in perfume. So can you imagine the site of the Palace of First Site, the excess all around you, the ridiculous wigs, the site of the Palace of First Sight, the excess all around you, the ridiculous wigs, the outfits, all that stuff. He's got no teeth, he's farting, his urine absolutely stinks, and he's just hiling all this food into his mouth while you watch. Yeah, I'm beginning to see my spectators really much. God save our gracious king. I'm going once. Is that weird? Save our gracious King.

I'm going once. Is that weird? I would. There'll be a point where we'll be to know I have to see this. Also very briefly he's had three bars his whole life. I want to know what is the point where you go, it's time for a ball. If you've only had three. What is the point you go?

What is he like, he's playing tennis. He does a serve and he catches a whiff of his armpit when it's up in the air and he's like, yeah, the time is cut. Yeah. Or when he was in the bath, did he not think to himself, it's quite nice actually? It's actually quite relaxing. I'm gonna have another one of these and there's nothing to stop me because I'm king Louis Louis I'm not the th thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thing thin thin thin the thin the thin thin the thin the the thin the thin' the the the the the the the their thin' the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their the time the time the time the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the time the time the time the time the time their their their the time their their their tie time. time. Yeah time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I's time. Yeah. I's time. I's time. Yeah. Yeah. I's time. Yeah. Yeah. I's their's the goes completely mud-brown the moment you touch it. It actually isn't that pleasant. You're just surrounded by seven years of filth. Oh. It would be more than that. If you had three, if he lived to 76, if he had three baths, if he had three baths, that's one every 25 years.

One was his christening as well. So it's really... My last bath would have been in 1999. Are we sure he wasn't just more of a shower guy? I've been putting on links in 1999. You won't be surprised to learn that after Louis 14th's death in 1715, the Grand Couveur went out of fashion. Louis 15th who succeeded in was like, I'm eating in private, mate, away from the gaze of the general public. Much less success, I would say, his treat was nipping down to the kitchens and making hot chocolate. And actually the recipe he stumbled upon to make hot chocolate still survives in a book that was published

in 1755. Louis XVI, and Marietta Annette briefly revived the Grand Couveve, it was a bit of a burden, they eventually just limited it to Sundays. And then the French Revolution revolution revolution culture to an abrupt end. And I have to say, I'm not surprised. People are starving. People in Paris starving. You could like go to Versaill, and then see them, like just gobbling down pheasant and stinking and not with a complete hangarote, and not not washing. I mean, blim it. Yeah. There is a really interesting footnote to this, which is that Louis 14th died, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to to to to to to to to to th, th, th, to th, thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th, and people, and people, and people, and people, and people, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, their, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, the the thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thi, thi. people thi, thi, ime it. Yeah. There is a really interesting footnote to this, which is that Louis XIV died of gangrene in September 1715. His body was laid to rest in San Deney Basilica outside Paris. It was there, understood for 80 years, after the French Revolution, they exhumed and destroyed all the remains found in the Basilica. But in 1848 at Noonam House, a piece of Louis' mummified heart

taken from his tomb and kept in a silver locket by the Archbishop of York, was shown to the Dean of Westminster, William Buckland, who saw it, was like, wow, amazing, a bit of his heart, and ate it. What? People were so weird. People... I just can't get over how weird people were in the past. The Dean of Westminster, William Buckland in 1848 at Noonam House, ate the last remaining bit of Louis XIV, a little chunk of his heart. It wouldn't occur to me to pop that in my mouth. It wouldn't occur

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This will be the day. So today I'm going to talk to you about an incredibly bloody dinner party from Scottish history that directly inspired one of the most famous scenes from Game of Thrones. Now, I must admit I haven't actually watched Game of Thrones. No, neither am I. Well, actually, there's an interesting thing for listeners of this podcast and for you two, because it's David Bradley, who brilliant Shakespearean actor, friend of the show, who voices the, here's how you can get in touch with the show.

And he plays Walde Frey, who is the guy who kind of ring leads the to to told, plays, Walde Frey, who is the guy who kind of ring leads the red wedding with the scene that is inspired by the tale that you're about to tell the crew. So there's a loop there, a historic loop. Do you want my third great fact of this week? I'll go on there. Which is that in the red wedding, the scene, the famous scene in Game of Thrones, there's a band at the top of the wedding who start playing the rival families a big song as a clue that they're about to get massacred, and the guy who's playing drums on the band is the drummer from Coleplay.

No. So in fact, this bloody dinner party is up there with some of the most infamous moments from Scottish history alongside, here's some the murders that surrounded the fall of Mary's Queen of Scots, the Glencoe Massacre of 1692 and of course Gaza humiliating Colin Hendry at year 96. So those are the key moments of Scottish horror they're still having to endure today. And it all began with the assassination of James the First of Scotland in 1437 which plunged Scotland into chaos. So largely because his heir, King James II was only six years old, which we talked about earlier, does sound like one of those sort of comedy films from the 80s, is it? King Baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, President Baby.

I used to think being a child king would be great fun. But actually when you read a lot of history, you realize, no, it's incredibly dangerous to be a child king. Horrific. Of course, yeah. In the sort of 80s movie vibe it would be obviously, the child would put it, like, everyone has to have sweets for breakfast. Yeah, yeah. There would be mandatory playtime for adults and then actually everyone be annoyed, but at the end of it would thi thi thi thi. thi. thi, it, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be thi, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, annoyed but at the end of it would improve the country. You're nationalizing Lego, all of that kind of stuff, yeah.

Exactly, and then that baby would be replaced by an adult king at a point, but that adult will have learnt from that baby. Yes, okay, Tom, you've written a good film. And you've done it about 10 seconds. I'm watching that film. In reality though, because this little child, King James II, was so young, what happened was the Stuart family faced a long period of regency. Now for those you might not know what regency is, regency essentially is when someone is appointed to administer the role of monarch if a monarch is too young or if the monarch is incapacitated.

So in this case, Scotland couldn't really have a six-year-old king in reality. Is the king young, young, I was big lunch in front of a lot of spectators. Exactly. Does he need his nappy changing during the period while the nappy is being changed? Someone else will be in charge. And so because of this situation, because there was a six-year-old king,

and the king people who would step in and assume power until he was old enough, and they all had their eyes on this incredible power, which is, I think you'll agree, classic middle ages stuff, this basically isn't it? Yeah. Lots of plotting people wanting to kind of have the ear of the king or control the kingdom because the king is too young is classic middle ages stuff. And this is happening in countries and kingdoms all over Europe. They all knew about it. They all knew about it. Nobody think there must be a better system than this. Yeah, because we're at it, the Portuguese are at it, the Spanish are at it, the English are at it, the the Irish are at it, the Welsh are at it. The English, we, we, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th all all all all all all all all all all all all all all, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, all all all all all all all all all all all all all all all all, th, all all all all all, all, all, all all all, all all all, all, all all, all, their, all all all all, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, all their, all their, their, their, all their, their, their, all all all all all all all all all, the Welshshire. We need to mix it up.

And it's not working anywhere. Like when Spain, they changed their tactics to Tick-Tacker and it all went, it's really improved for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're sticking with long ball. Come on. So, the first of these regents, okay, was a guy called Archibald, who was the fifth Earl of Douglas.

And he actually managed to hold on to power until 1439. But then suddenly he unexpectedly died, which threw his house and the kingdom along with it into this sort of fresh turmoil, as his replacement was someone called William who was just 16 years old. But it's not old enough. It's not once again, but it is an improvement on six. It's prime whoopie because you need. But the big question was, had Archibald died of natural causes?

And this is where things start to get interesting because many pointed to the sort of cunning and sinister motives of a man called William Crichton, who is a keeper of Ed Castle and self-proclaimed Lord Chancellor of Scotland. Now, there was a lot of self-proclaiming back then, I've noticed. You go through history books, not something you can get away with now. I wanted to self-proclaim that I had been on life of the Apollo when I was still on the circuit, but unfortunately there were too many checks and balances in place. Self-proclaimed Emmy winner Ellis James. But back then people were constantly self-proclaiming and laming them, you know, just over

huge parts of the land, the part of the kingdom. But the reason for this suspicion was because soon after Archibald's death, William Crichton organized a power sharing deal with a guy called Alexander Livingston, who is the keeper of Sterling Castle, and crucially, and this is the big one, Archibald's younger brother, James Douglas, a man who stood to inherit the whole Douglas Earldom, so he'd become an incredibly powerful Earl if his nephews were dispensed with, and this is where things start to get done. I love my nephews.

I really love my nephews. I really love my nephews. Could you ever see a job opportunity? Good enough, Ellis, that you'd want your nephew's dispensed. No, they're 10 and 6. What have they got that I want, realistically? Yeah. Even the football kids they like, they've got are too small for me. The wrong side. Exactly. So the situation is that this conspiring group who essentially

want to take power while the king is too young and their plan is to get away with these two nephews that are standing in the way of James Douglas archaward's younger brother becoming Earl. So they hatched a plot to lure the 16-year-old William who's one of the nephews and his younger brother and his heir, David, who is only 12 to to to to the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the thi. thi. thi. their thi. their thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. Who is thi. thi. thi. thi. Who. thi. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. Who. That. That. That. That. That. That. That. That. That. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's th. That's th. That's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thee. the. the the the. the the. the the thea. the. the thi. the. thi.-old William, who's one of the nephews, and his younger brother and his heir, David, who was only 12, to Crichton Castle, which is southeast of Edinburgh, and then on to Edinburgh Castle itself. And along the way, these Douglas boys, they were wine and dined and convinced that the conspirators were actually on their side. Classic, sort of Maccavellian, kind of treachery, oh here we are, we're drinking wine, we're having fun, I'm on your side. No I'm not, I'm not really on your side.

It's, you know, it's the hallmark of this era. And they also promised them that the whole affair would culminate with a huge dinner party. This is where the 24th of November 1440 with the King himself in attendance. I have been thinking about this. I know it's probably ridiculous to say, but I pretty sure if the meal was good enough, I could be convinced into going anywhere. Basically, so I could see how this hooked them, even if they thought they were threat

of death. If you really describe the buffet to me in perfect detail, I think I'd charge. Especially that age. I can have cake and chips. Yes. It's a pile of what sits the size of a house. Okay, I'm done. I'm doing it. An infinite kind of bono's. So off they go on this journey, but of course what actually happened was the boys were murdered. Oh, yeah.

Now, what exactly happened at this black dinner, this bloody, bloody dinner party in Scottish history is the subject of much speculation. As you said earlier, Chris, that speculation impacted the writing of modern writers. For example, George R. R. Martin, used it as the basis of the red wedding, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, th writing of modern writers. For example, George R.R. Martin used it as the basis of the red wedding, which is a very, very famous scene in Game of Thrones, where people are massacred and it's a really bloody horror show. Well, in fact, some writers have actually said there may not have been a meal at all,

that the promise of a dinner party was just a ruse and the Douglas brothers were simply arrested when they arrived at Edinburgh Castle and tried and executed in short order. However, the best version of the story, and this is a version that a lot of writers do agree with, so there's a good chance this is what happened. It does talk of a feast occurring and a hearty banquet fit for a king as described, and in the middle of this a centerpiece, and the centerpiece was a bull's head which was placed before the nephews as a signal that this gathering would have deadly consequences. So in medieval Scotland if a severed bullshead was placed on a platter in front of you it borrowed from the biblical image of John the Baptist and it was a sign that that guest was doomed to die and had be condemned as a traitor. That's like in James Bond where just

before they kill him or before try to kill him they tell him exactly what their plan is. Yes, just kill him. Why you let him know because if he gets it, well we've all seen the films. Why bring in the symbol? Because then you shit yourself and run away. Is it a final humiliation maybe? You're gonna to die now. Yeah I touch on this this this this this this this this this the the the start the start the start the start the start the start the start the start the start the start the start the start. the start. the start. the start. the start. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. I. I. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. I. I. You. I. I. I'm. I'm. I'm. You're. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. try. they're. they're. they it. You're gonna die now. Yeah. I toucest on this at the start. In Game of Thrones, you've got the Starks and the Lannisters, these rival families, and it's a stark wedding, and the clue that they give them that they're all about to masquered is. In this Stark wedding, they start playing the song, the band and everyone kind of looks at each other and that's when they know oh it's all about to go down. So maybe that's what they maybe George R. R. Martin is nicked that off the big hogs head. What do you think what excuse you're going for once the ballhead comes out? Are you faking a

phone call? Are you claiming you suddenly something from the meal is disagree with your stomach and you just need to rush to the bathroom the bathroom to rush to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to rush. to to the the to the to to the the to the the to the to the to the the to the to to to their. to. to. their. to. to. their. to. their. What is, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. to. the the the today. to. today. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the what are you thinking? What's your? You go, oh I've got to get this. I've got to get this. Sorry, sorry I'll be five minutes, sorry, got to get this. I think there's a package being delivered at the front gate at Amazon. They're going to go, I can't have them leave it with the neighbors. Yeah, I'm not looking at the together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the elder nephew, didn't have a chance to come with any of the excuses because as he was a teenager he didn't recognize what had been put in front of him. He didn't realize that this was a sign he wasn't at that age aware that the bull's head represented this despite the fact famously in that area that is what it represented and only when he was seized by Krypton's men did it dawn on him that something that that that that that that that th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the the the the the the th. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. the the the. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. te. teaneaneaneaneaneaneaneaneanneean. tean. teauu. teau. teau. tea. tea. te. that is what it represented. And only when he was seized by Crichton's men did it dawn on him that something was going badly wrong.

And are you ready for the most middle-aged bit of it all? This really captures this time. According to tradition, William and David were beheaded there and then in the banquet in front of everyone. Yeah. Also, no matter your allegiance, whether you're pro that, it's going to put you off your meal. You're not going to wonder what's the pudding after that, surely. It's said that King James II, who was sat at the banquet, did try to intervene, this is

what some writers believe, and save his cousins. But as he was only 10 himself, he was powerless to stop the conspiracy from running his course. An early 20th century- that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th th th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, thoomorrow, tho, is tho, is tho, is tho, is tho, is tho, is going is going is going is going is going is going is going is th is th is th is th is th is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, th, th, th, th, th, th. Wee is th. Wee is the is theeeeeeeeeeeea.oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. It is going is going is going toe, he was powerless to stop the conspiracy from running his course. An early 20th century account, full of the romantic conventions that flourished in the 19th century, has this to say of the scene. To the little king, sitting there on the seat of honour, the whole scene is one of horror. He appeals first to Crichton and then to have mercy, but he might as well speak to a stone. Either you or they must die, Krypton roughly tells him, for the Kingdom of Scotland cannot hold

both a Stuart and a Douglas. And a final point, which does kind of make me laugh, despite the horror of it. One of the final reasons this awful event has gained notoriety. It's quite really upset those people for ages afterwards, is because it upset the rules of hospitality.

So, to quote one- Yeah, I was just thinking I've never seen that having a little chef. To quote one Edwardian author, it was not the done thing to kill your guests at dinner. So it just, the killing wasn't the problem. It was the fact they chose to do it at dinner is what really nice people. Do you know what I would say, right? Every single time, Izzy and I have gone to a dinner party or hosted people and our people around, every single time, as we're leaving or still in the house doing the wash it up, depending on which And you're like, but it was a good, it was nice to do something social, you know? And you can't fault the profiterals. Even though

the head rolls for this week. If you want even more O-Water Time, you can become an O-Watertime full-timer and get your letters and US Sports and loads of bonus episodes. They're all there to be enjoyed. To sign up, you can go to O-Watertime. to Com. Get your episodes a week early, all in one complete bit. For all your options, go to O-Watertime.com. That's it for this week. We'll see you next week. Goodbye.

Bye. I'm a little bit. the