On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Alli Webb ON: How to Embrace Imposter Syndrome & Ways to Take Small Steps Towards Big Success

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

For some, success is elusive while for others, it’s years of hard work and dedication. But how can one truly and effectively achieve success? How can we be as successful as the leaders we look up to? Today, in the On Purpose podcast, Jay sits down with New York Times Bestselling Author, Alli Webb. After spending 15 years as a professional hairstylist, in 2010, she pioneered the Drybar concept, a chain of hair salons known for blowout services that quickly expanded nationwide. Jay and Alli go in depth about what the journey was behind creating a business to eventually selling the company for $225 million! Alli’s remarkable journey has landed her on the cover of Inc. Magazine, Fast Company's "100 Most Creative People in Business" list, Fortune magazine's "40 Under 40," and more.  Alli and Jay explored the messy truth about starting something new– whether it’s a business or a relationship. They also talked about the importance of intuition and paying attention to red flags in entrepreneurship and the role of passion and love for what you do.  You will also learn about how Alli balances her personal and professional life and the difficulty of navigating and ending a marriage. Remember that sometimes, we won’t always have the ‘perfect ending’ in our stories, and that’s okay.  In this interview, you'll learn: The messy truths of entrepreneurship The importance of acknowledging imposter syndrome and using it as a source of motivation and growth The challenges and risks associated with starting and running a business How to take feedback as a gift How to cope with life changes and challenges Remember that the most beautiful masterpieces are often created from the messiest of beginnings. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro  02:50 Success Is Messy  03:55 The Truth About Starting A Business  05:55 Anyone Can Be An Entrepreneur  07:40 ‘I never thought I would be successful’  10:30 From Hobby To Business  13:20 DON’T Think About The Money  14:26 The 2 Secrets To Success  15:56 Being Right Or Being Delusional?  20:05 How To Find Your Passion 22:04 Finding The Right Business Partners  25:31 Making Your Idea Work  27:21 Dealing With Potential Failure  29:22 Feeling Like An Imposter  33:00 The One Piece Of Advice For Success  37:00 How To Accept Criticism  40:50 Can You Be Successful AND Happy?  45:10 Finding Love During Chaos  48:25 Navigating Challenges In A Relationship  51:15 How To Balance Your Life  54:01 Finding Closure Within Yourself  57:30 How To Cope With Uncertainty  1:00:29 Hardest Part Of Divorce  1:04:58 What Do You Need To Change About Yourself?  1:07:33 Dealing With Trauma  1:11:41 Alli’s Best Advice  1:19:00 Alli On Final Five Episode Resources: Alli Webb | Website Alli Webb | Instagram Alli Webb | TikTok  Alli Webb | Book Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The street stoic podcast is back. We are combining hip hop lyrics and quotes from some of the greatest to ever grace a microphone. It's a line from Lauren Hill and she says, don't be a hard rock when you really are again. Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time. Seneca, right? And he says,

your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought. For the human spirit is colored by such impression. Listen to season two of the Street Stoke podcast. I'm the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the Hit Podcast Family Secrets. What happens when the person you idolize turns out to be someone else entirely? And what if you were kidnapped by your own grandparents and left with an endless well of mysteries about yourself and those around you? These are just a few

extraordinary puzzles will be exploring in our ninth season of Family Secrets. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'll get your podcasts. I think Delusion is maybe ignoring red flags. It's like, no, no, it's gonna be fine. What are you doing? Why are you not listening? Those mistakes and those red flags

actually are really great gifts afterwards. You're like, oh, I need to learn this. Entrepreneur Ali Webb. It's a co-founder of Dry Baw, like $100 million empire. Can I be in love with a person and myself and what I'm doing? I haven't been able to figure that out yet. Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear

more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button, I love your support, it's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you, thank you so much for subscribing, it means the world to me. The best selling author in the post. The number one health and wellness podcast.

The purpose of Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that our communities all about becoming happier, healthier and more healed. And whether it's your career, whether it's your relationships, whether it's your personal life, we try and focus on all aspects on purpose. Today's guest is someone who is excited to share with us. What I believe is the truth. And it's called the messy truth, Ali Webb, who I'm going to tell you about in a second. This book is all about

how she sold her business for millions, but almost lost herself. The Messy Truth is available right now. We're going to put the link in the caption so you can order it while you're listening to this conversation. And for those of you that don't know, Alih Webb is the founder of Drybar, New York Times bestselling author, Cannopy President, co-founder of Squeeze, Brightside, and Beckett & Quill. In 2010, Drybar exploded into a nationally recognized and highly sought-after brand, growing to over 150 locations and highly successful product line, which sold for $255 million in 2020. Staying true to Ali's signature approach to beauty

and self-care, Squeeze follows suit as an innovative massage concept. Ali joined forces with LA-based jewelry designer Meredith Quill to build yet another new company now known as Beckett and Quill. Most recently, Ali joined the canopy team as president. And I'm excited to talk to Ali because we bumped into each other recently at a soccer game, football game, for Angel City FC, please welcome to the show, Ali Webb. Ali, thank you for being here. Thank you.

Thanks for that introduction. Of course, you had to live it all as I always tell my guests. And I love this, you know, the title of your book just immediately captured my attention because I couldn't agree more that every success story is underpinned by the messy truth and we often don't hear about the messy truth we often don't see the messy truth. Sometimes we don't even want to know about the messy truth. We'd rather believe in the facade or the beauty or the perfection or the perfect image that we see and I'm really glad that you're sharing this. So I have lots of things I want to ask you from the book today.

I highly recommend everyone goes and buys the book, especially if you're on your entrepreneurial journey. Maybe you want to be an entrepreneur, you're thinking about it and you're thinking about how do I figure out all of this stuff. So, so let's start with this idea, Ali, that a lot of our audience, a lot of our community wants to be entrepreneurs. Yeah. They may already be entrepreneurs.

Some of them are struggling, some of them are winning, some of them are still figuring out what they're even going to do. What is the messy truth about starting that no one tells you about starting specifically? Well, you know, I think that we live in a generation now where we are finally at the point, which wasn't the case when I was starting out, where it is accessible to get to hear what's really going on. There's so many panels and so many conferences where entrepreneurs are talking about

more of the real stuff, which I'm super grateful for. Like I said, 13 years ago, we started a dry bar. That didn't exist. Nobody was talking about anything. You didn't have access to founders or CEOs, the way you do now. And it's such a beautiful thing that there's podcasts like this and there's places

where people who are thinking about starting a business can go. I have a mastermind that's launching next week where it's like for entrepreneurs. There's so much access out there now. But I think there is still understandably so. It's like, I mean, everybody wants to look good and everybody wants to show their best side.

And for me, it's like, I've always just been drawn to the realness. And maybe it's because I've always been a bit of an underdog. Starting from the time I was a kid, my older brother, Michael, who's my business partner in dry bar, he was the overachiever in our family. Very more book smart and just was either always in trouble or always doing something really

amazing. There wasn't really a lot of image. And I was kind of a bit of a wall flower, which if you know me now, that is not my personality at all, but back then, I was just kind of observing my brother in trouble or doing something great. I grew up in this with this like I was just in the background and I think that as as I've got an older I have felt like more wanting to you know talk about you know my story and like how I was like a like a bit of a I think I have a chapter in the book called like the unlikely entrepreneur something like that I was like a bit of a, I think I have a chapter in the book called Like the Unlikely Entrepreneur,

something like that I should probably know all the chapters in my book. But I've always considered myself like kind of this underdog and like not who you'd expect to succeed. And I think I've guess I've felt called to shine light on that because there are a lot of us out there, you know, and I don't have a traditional path. And I think that at one point, it was like,

there was this societal, like, you have to go to college, you have to have a business degree if you want to start a business. And now, you know, so many, I've spoken at so many colleges that have entrepreneurial programs, which I'm like, I always get a chuckled up because I'm like, I didn't even go to college, like, do you want me to not mention that?

You know? But I think it's just good to show that, like, you can find success and have success no matter who you are, whether you went to college, didn't go to college, just graduated high school, didn't graduate, whatever. So I've just felt really drawn to that kind of like underdog, like the person that you just wouldn't expect to be successful. And so I try to highlight that. And there's good there too, and there's a lot of things that I am, you know, I am really good at, but showing like a peak behind the curtain to people that it's not, I mean, I think any entrepreneur who's listening to this knows it's not easy, of course it's

not easy. I feel like I just want to talk about and highlight more of the hard stuff than just the good stuff, you know, because it's completely a mix bag. It's not one or the other. It's usually like one minute to one minute. Like you're like, oh, this was amazing. And then you're like, the whole thing's falling apart, you know, I mean, it's literally like that crazy. So my mission with the book was like to highlight both, like it's really amazing. And it's the greatest journey. And it's also incredibly hard and taxing. And like you don't realize how much is going to change your life. And it's also incredibly hard and taxing and like you don't realize how much is going to change your life. And I don't, I think that's good that you don't know

that. You know, I'm a little bit of like the ignorance is bliss mentality because I feel like the less you know about what you're getting yourself into. And I think just that whole mindset of like if you can accept you don't know what you don't know, you go into things a little like not as freaked out. Yeah. You know, well in the, you go into in detail. Give us a snapshot for everyone who's listening of what your life looked like when you even thought

about starting this, because that will give us a picture of this underdog, unlikely entrepreneur. Yeah, I mean, I got married to my first husband when I was 26, I moved to New York City when I was 18, because I didn't want to go to college. And I was like, I'm gonna move to New York City. I feel like that will be good college. And that's what I did.

And I jumped around from job to job. And I would eventually go to beauty school in South Florida, and then I moved back to New York. And then I got married and moved to LA and had two babies. And was like, thought I'd hit the jackpot. I loved being able to be a stay at home mom. I really felt so blessed and lucky that I got to be home with my boys and I was home for like, you know,

about five years before I started dry bar and that was such an amazing time. But I did get that itch to get back out there and start doing for something for myself, which was really just like a feeling that I had. I mean, I really wanted to have kids and I really wanted to be a stayed home mom and part of me thought I'd get really involved

in the school and stuff like that. And as I kind of approached that, I was like, no, I don't think I want to do that. And not, I was going to write it wrong, right? It just wasn't for me. And I've always really trusted my gut and my feeling. And I stay very close into what feels right. And I, and after saying home with my kids, it was about, they were about two and four when I started a drive-bar

and about a year before we started a drive-bar, I got that kind of itch to do something and I started a mobile blow-up business, which was again, just like a way to get out of the house for a few hours, get away from my kids who I loved, loved, loved the whole thing, but just wanted to do something for myself and I knew having done hair for so many years

that I could do that pretty easily. I also had this intuition on that that if I were to only charge $40, which was like, oh, 220, super easy. I'll come over while your baby's sleeping. That was it. That maybe that would be fulfilling for me to get out of the house, talk to adults.

I mean, that's the other thing. It's like, when you have two little kids and you go to the park all day and you're in like kidville all day, I just, I wanted a little bit of a break from that and not just from my husband. So I started this and it was so perfect at the time and I remember telling people that.

Like I remember it was, I mean, it was 15 years ago but it feels like yesterday because I was like, oh, it's great, I love this. Like I'm getting out into the world. It was a great way for me to meet other women. And I would, it also informed a lot of the things that we would eventually instill in dry bar, like not doing someone's hair in front of a mirror

because I was doing their hair in their living room. And so, it was just perfect at the time. I wasn't really making any money, but I've never been driven by money. So, I was like, I'm just happy to do this. I make a little extra cash. I go and do this thing that I really love doing. I get to talk to these amazing women

and it was kind of like wildfire. I, you know, women would tell their friends and then their friend group and so it would grow and grow, which is eventually why dry bar came to be because I was getting so busy operating this mobile business by myself that I was like, I think I need to start having them come to me instead of me come to them.

And that's really how dry bar was born. But I was just this like one woman show driving my new Sonic Sierra around LA with like a duffel bag full of tools and hairspray. And you know, it's funny because it's like, I remember it so well, like, could have never guessed it would turn into the life that I have now.

I mean, not in a million years. I was just happy to be out of the house for a couple hours, you know. Thank you for sharing that. I know you probably had to share that so many times. No, I love it. I wanted you to because I just, I mean, to me, I'm hoping that so many people

are listening and watching going, that's me, Ali, right? Like I'm someone who like, I love my family, but I wanna do something, I have this instinct that I have something inside of me, I don't know what it quite is yet, or by the way, I'm doing something on the side and my friends will tell each other that I'm good at it.

And I think I could build something, but I'm not sure. Like, what was it that made you feel this is real and it could be bigger versus actually, this is great and it fulfills my needs of getting out the house and giving me a little bit of extra cash. Because you could argue that already felt like success and it can be success for a lot of people. What was it for you that said, no, this should be bigger. I can be bigger and I want it to be bigger, yeah.

Yeah, well, it's funny how, and I'm sure you've experienced this too, when you're doing something and it feels really right, and then there's like these rumblings and this like inner knowing of your like, wait a second, it might be on to something here, and that's really how I started to feel because I realized I was saying no more than I was saying yes,

and I was like, you know, scratching my head, going like, I'm getting so many calls, and I was pretty yes. And I was like, you know, scratching my head, going like, I'm getting so many calls. And I was pretty good at what I was doing. And so I was like, there's gotta be something else here. And at the time, my kids were really little. And my mom, who passed away eight years ago now, but she was, we used to move her everywhere, we moved like an apartment down the street

and she loved being near my kids. And so that was really helpful. And she was, you she was in our lives. And I remember being like, I wonder what would happen if we had a location, one location. I'm like, my mom could help. I could get my kids after preschool, like around three or four.

I think I could still make this work. And again, still thinking pretty small, that like let me just go from like the next step from going to these homes to like opening a store. And it was so exciting. And it was just like, I tell people this all the time that if you're chasing the money, I mean, maybe that works sometimes.

In my experience, most businesses that I know of, it's like you're chasing something that you love. And I never, I never thought about selling the business, I never thought about making a ton of money. I was like, I never even thought about money. I mean, for years I didn't take much money as a salary from dry bar. I just loved it.

And when you, you know this, when you love your passion, like the thing that you, and you get to do it every day, you know, it was like, I just felt like this is the coolest thing ever and I couldn't believe like, we first opened dry barn, so many people were coming and again, it just felt so meant to be because this mobile business that I had built

and these women that I had come to know in LA and some of them were like, I mean, it's LA. It's like producers and actors and celebrities and like, I was a little thrust into that world. And beyond the celebrity, just, there was just so many women who were really connected. And when I started talking to my clients, which by the way were the first people I talked to

about, driver, I was like, what do you think of this idea? And they're like, oh my God, it's the best idea ever. But how do you make it work? And there was like certainly naysayers. But it was such a cool, exciting opportunity and to have women like being like, you should totally do this. And then we opened that for a store and it was so busy and crazy and I just loved every second of it.

You know, I couldn't get enough of it. That's such a, I love that. And I want to pull from it for our listeners. So something Ali said that stands out to me is this idea of she was taking baby steps It was just about the next step. It wasn't like I've come across a million dollar idea 100 million It wasn't like this crazy thought process. It was like I do something. It makes me happy clients are happy Let's get a store and I think sometimes we kind of go from well. I have a really good idea It should be a million dollar business a billion billion dollar business, or whatever it may be.

And we don't get that next step right. So that's one thing I want to share. The second thing that really stood out in what you said is you asked the people you were serving, your clients, for what they thought of the idea. A lot of us ask our friends, we ask our family, we ask people around us who don't actually know how skilled we are at this thing.

Right. And we're not asking the people who are actually going to be our potential clients. Yeah. And so the fact that you were asking them and they were saying, Oh, I'd turn up there. Oh, I'd recommend all my friends. Right. We're in. That's a much better person to talk to when you're sharing a new idea.

What's the difference, Ali, because you've talked about now and in the book, you talk about this idea that you've always been pretty and in the book, you talk about this idea that you've always been pretty decisive, but more deeply when you go into it. And I know you have a deeper side to you. And when you're thinking about things like intention and intuition and instinct, and you said, I always knew, like, I was always listening for that inner voice. What is the difference between intuition and delusion? If you had to think about how you noticed the difference, what would that be for you?

I think intuition is like versus delusion because I feel like I'm well-equated with them. I mean, that's good. Yeah, because delusion is something to me, at least how it lands for me, is something that me, at least how it lands for me, is something that's a delusional view back then of dry bar would have been, we're gonna grow this thing to 150 locations

and we're gonna sell it for $255 million, although I did say early on that I thought we would have, but not early, in a year and I was like, I think we're gonna sell the business for $250 million, isn't that crazy? I mean, I feel like I manifested that. And I think it kind of goes back to what you're saying about baby steps. It's like, we're doing ourselves a disservice of, you know, moving in this like, you know, in a delusional path, I think I would say, you know, versus like,

saying close in. And, you know, and I have gotten very into spirituality in the last few years. And one of my very best friends, and I talk about her in the book her name is Pat Paige and I always say I'm writing her spiritual co-tails because she's always in talismans and some retreat and you know I'm just kind of like trying to pick it up of what she's doing and she always says to me stay close in you know and you have to really think about that and like what that means and it's like oh for me anyways it means like pay really close attention. And I've really started to think about that more and more, especially having had a, you know, rough couple months recently.

It's like, how does this make me feel in the moment? And I don't think I ever could have articulated that the way I can now. And I think we get older, we're riser, we go through more things, we read more books, we do all the things, I meditate a lot more now, I do all that stuff now. And I pay really close attention.

I don't think I did the way I do a lot more now. I do all that stuff now and I pay really close attention. I don't think I did the way I do now back then, but I think I had it instinctually in me. I just didn't know how to pick up on it. You know where it's like now, I can almost like, I can read something or have a thought and like immediately get a ping in my body of like, no, this doesn't feel good. Or get a like, oh yeah, this feels really good. It's fascinating. And the thing is, and I'm sure you,

I'm being who you are, would agree with this. It's like if you get really quiet and you pay attention to that stuff, it's pretty clear. You know, I have definitely been known to purposely ignore red flags in situations, which have gotten me into some bad situations. And it's really funny, the awareness that we get as we get older,

and wiser, and we make some mistakes, and we learn from them. And so I guess, you know, delusion is like, I think delusion is maybe ignoring red flags. You know, it's like, no, no, it's gonna be fine. Besides the fact that like you know it's not, but you're gonna, it's like, what are you doing?

Why are you not listening? I heard something, Renee Brown said, I'm sure she's been on the show. She has not. Oh, you have to have her on. She's amazing. And she was really there for me in my first divorce, which is crazy. But she, um, I just saw something recently where she was like, every, every once in a while, the universe taps you, or, but we not, everyone's around. When you get to mid-age, the universe taps you on the shoulder and is like, you can't run anymore. And I was like, is she talking to me? You know, but it's a fascinating thing

because I think at some point in our lives, and it seems to me like it's more mid-life, you get that tap and you're like, yeah, I gotta be really like, I gotta pay attention to what's happening. Like you can't get away with it anymore. You know, I think as when we're younger, we can, I don't know why that is.

And I think maybe we're just ignoring the red flags and thinking it can just all work out. And I'm such a like, it all works out kind of gal anyways, which I think is true. And now I've come to realize that those mistakes and those red flags and the things that we don't pay attention to when we should Actually are really great gifts not in the moment in the moment. You're like why is this happening to me?

But then afterwards you're like, oh, I need to learn this, you know Again, my friend page always says it's the medicine, you know, she's like this is the medicine that you need I'm like it's always about the medicine, you know, but it's really true. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you But thank you for doing that thought experiment with me. Yeah. It intuition, delusion. Yeah, I really love you. It's good.

It's good. I love you, take it. I want to pick out some moments from your book because I love some of the quotes in your book and things that stuck with me. And so I'm going to start with this because it really, you know, enhances the conversation we're having right now about your work. And you says, this is page eight. Though entrepreneurs today face different challenges, more noise, more competition, et cetera, it still always starts with you. Your idea, your skill set,

your purpose, and your gut instinct. And you say, what is the thing that you just can't stop thinking about, which I love that. I love that language to it. But you talk a lot about this finding your skill set as an entrepreneur. And I think there could be nothing more true about than that. Like I'm so aligned with you. And I think often we're doing things we're passionate about that we're not skilled at. Or if we are passionate, we haven't thought that we need to be skilled at it.

And obviously you could be doing the opposite way. You're doing some skill data, you're not passionate about sure. And that's what a job is pretty much. But how do people discover what they're skilled at? Because what I've found is that most of us, when we're skilled at something, we devalue it as a skill because it's so easy to us. And we see someone else with another skill and you talk about this a lot in the book about,

don't become someone else's story, don't chase another entrepreneur, don't try and imitate. But we look at someone, so for example, people will look at me and be like, oh, Jay, you're really good at XYZ, but then if I'm not aware of that skill set, I'll be like, no, no, no, but you're really good at ABC. And then we play this kind of tag of like,

no, I don't have your skills, but we rarely sit and go, no, I'm actually really good at that. Because we devalue what we find easy. Yeah, and so true. Right? I think it was really highlighted in my business with my brother and my first husband, Cam, who Cam was the creative genius behind Dry Bar, and my brother was like more

of the behind the scene business side of it. And I was like, you know, the hairstylist and like the experience. And everybody always asks us like, is it really hard to work with your brother and now ex-husband? And that's not why we got divorced and whatever. But I was like, no, it was great because we were all very clear on what we did and what we did well

and what our highest and best use was. I had that conversation so many times. I still go back to that. What's my highest and best use always in life? Because I think it's like, really like think about it. And we had really almost no conflict. And if we ever, I mean, we all talked about all things together, but if there was ever like a questionable thing,

whoever would decide was like, who's laying that was? And that was, we were all very okay with that. And I think when you do run into problems with business partners, it's often because you guys think you have the same skill set. And then that's such, it's like five-year-olds playing soccer, everybody's kicking the ball. It doesn't work, you know? So I feel like it's like the old cliche. It doesn't feel like work if you're doing something you love,

which I know has been said 8 million times, but it is so true. And I think it's almost feels too easy to your point, so people are like, well, I've got to challenge myself. And of course, you do, and you want to keep challenging yourself, but what a gift in life to be able to do what you love to do. And I think there's this misconception that you shouldn't do that. You know, it's like, you know, for me, like when I told my parents I wanted to go to beauty school,

they were like, really? Are you sure? And like very like, look their nose down on it. Like, you want to be a hairstylist. And they also had a group in South Florida. And my parents had were entrepreneurs, which definitely informed a lot of my, or who I became. But they had this like, old lady clothing store. And it was but they had this like old lady clothing store and it was right next to this like old lady hair salon and they were, and they think in their mind, they're like, you wanna work there? And I was like, no, I'm gonna move to New York City.

I'm gonna do editorial and like fashion shows. And I had these like grand ideas. I didn't have dry bar at the time. You know, but it was like, that's what I loved. Like I grew up in South Florida. I have naturally girl hair. And my hair was just massive and frizzy all the time. And I was just fascinated by hair. I loved. Like I grew up in South Florida. I have naturally grew up here. My hair was just massive and frizzy all the time. And I was just fascinated by hair.

I loved hair. It's just what I loved. You know? And so it took me a lot. It would take me many years to finally like get the courage to say like when my friends were going to college and they were studying whatever. And I was always like, how do you guys know what you want to do?

Very confused by that whole notion of college and majors and all that. And I just loved hair. And that was the thing that I really loved. And I talked about it in the book that it took me a while to figure out, again, comes back to being close in. Like I always loved hair. I would spend hours in the bathroom in high school.

And I worked in a hair salon as a receptionist when I was in high school because I wanted to get free blowouts. And because I loved being around hairstylist and I was like, this is the thing that I love and I ignored it for so many years. You know, and it's like to be able to tap into that thing and you can't find a person.

There's nobody you can meet and say, what do you really love to do? And they may not tell you because they're embarrassed or they don't do it as a job because my parents want to prove, my husband want to prove, whoever won't think it's a good idea. My parents did not think it was a good idea

to go to beauty school, but I had enough hoodspot to be like, I hear you, but it's what I want to do. And I had no idea I was going to turn into this beautiful life that it did for me, but I was just like, stay really focused. And I talk about that a lot to entrepreneurs that I'm mentoring.

It's like, don't shut all that out. Listen to what really feels like is good for you, not what everybody else around you wants. It's almost like that question that's come from what you're saying is what's that voice you're ignoring on the inside or what's that idea that you keep kind of putting away because you're like, that's ridiculous. Oh, that's stupid.

And you've heard that voice before where someone looked at you weird because you actually shared your intention, your excitement and everyone looked at you like that's not real, get over it. And by the way, people did that in dry bar because I mean, like I said, it was in the middle of a recession and people were like, how do you make this concept work?

It's like, we were starting at $35, a blowout. And it was like, you have to do a lot of blowouts to make that business work. And I was like, yeah, you know, but I think we can do it. And I literally, not great at math, but I was like, I think if we can do like, you know, 10 blowouts an hour and we're open, you know, 10 hours, I think it'll work. And I remember my brother started like, I think if we can do like, 10 blowouts an hour and we're open, 10 hours, I think it'll work.

I remember my brother started pretty an actual spreadsheet together and running the numbers. It was like, yeah, if we do 30 or 40 blowouts today, we'll have a nice business. And of course, we never did that little. We always did like 70, 80, 100 blowouts, which was just bananas. But it was like, people were the ones who put it in my hat

that maybe this idea doesn't work I mean so many people and then we started raising money and you know That's a whole other conversation of like raising money with like walking into these rooms with men in suits who like did not Understand the concept of dry bar and we're like what you know like how does this work and just didn't believe in it So many people didn't believe in it and it did seem like a tough like how does this work and just didn't believe in it. So many people didn't believe in it. And it did seem like a tough, you know, how do you make this work?

Like on a large scale, is there enough women who want to do this as the price, the price points really low? Like margins are really thin, how does it work? And, you know, and I just, I'm like, I'm just telling you, I really, you know, from a gut level know that this is gonna work. And then you're like, oh shit, this better work, you know,

but it did. And I always felt like there was money on the line for sure. And that's not a small thing. But, you know, I remember when I started cutting hair. And I mean, when you're starting to cut hair and you have really sharp scissors in your hand, it is very scary. And like, and you know, it's so funny. It's like the very first hair. I would never trust myself. Oh my God. This is a man with my own hair. Or anyone else's hair. No, it's the worst. And even in my wife's hair,

I'm like, nope. Nope. I'm not going anywhere near that. Well, the first hair cut I ever did in beauty school, I cut someone's ear. And I thought I was going to die. And the ears bleed so much. And I thought, when you say cut someone's ear, how am I?

Just a little knit on it. I mean, it was so traumatized, ain't sure for them, but for me, and also in beauty school, you're doing like two dollar haircuts and it's where you're learning, you know? I still have like nightmares about that because it was like the worst thing that can happen.

Besides that weird story, which I don't think I've ever talked to anybody about, it was very traumatizing for me. But I always felt like at the end of the day when I was on the floor cutting and when I was doing traumatizing for me. But I always felt like at the end of the day, when I was on the floor cutting and when I was doing all that, and then when we were starting drive, I was like, no, it's gonna die of this business

doesn't work, which is the worst possible outcome. It's like, we're not doing surgery, we're not, and I always found comfort in that, because there's always a chance that we're gonna lose money. In my case, it was gonna really be my brother's money. And my husband at the time and I put in our life savings, which wasn't really that much, but a lot to us at the time.

And, you know, it's going to really suck and we're going to lose money, but we're like, we're really smart, capable people. And if this idea doesn't work, we'll figure something else out. And I think that that mindset of like, you got to just like put it on the line is like, it is really why I think I've been successful is like not holding anything too tightly of like, yeah, I really hope this works and I really think this is going to work. But if it doesn't, like we're all going to be okay, you know, and I think that's like, you know, I think a lot of entrepreneurs I talk to are like, I have to have this much money saved and I have to do this and I have to do this.

And I was like, yeah, prepare for sure. But like at some point, you're going to have to just jump and hope for the best. Yeah, there is a moment for that leap. I want to dive into a couple of things here that you've mentioned that I think really stood out. And you talk about this and we were talking about this bit offline. It was this idea of page 13, you say, if you feel like an imposter embrace it. Yeah. And I feel like imposter syndrome has been something that a lot of people are talking about.

Yeah. I think it's something that there are even more people that are feeling than are talking about it. And it seems to be a recurring feeling whenever you're in a new room or a new league or a new zone, when you say embrace it. What does that mean? Yes, yes, the street stoic pie the past is back one of the quotes that came to mind here is from great the lyrics that came up for me was from Beyonce I pulled a quote from just one of my favorite artists in general kid cutting we are combining hip hop lyrics and quotes

Some of the greatest to ever grace a microphone in it He says because it's just waves Got to just float float and have faith. It's just waves. It's the line that we've all heard before for Lauren Hill And she says don't be a hard rock when you really are Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time. Seneca, right? And he says, your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought. For the human spirit is colored by such impression. A stone quote from Epicetus where he says, don't seek for everything to happen as you

wish it would, but rather wish that everything happens as it actually will. Then your life will flow well. And let's say I know we all could use a daily shot of inspiration. So this is the podcast for you. Listen to season two of the Street Stoke podcast as part of the Mike Bouta Podcast Network on the IHAR radio app, Apple Podcast or the Avigate Your Podcast. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the Hit Podcast Family Secrets. What happens when the person you idolize, the person you think you know best,

turns out to be someone else entirely. And in a world where everyone is trying to fix themselves, fix their minds, fix their bodies, what does it look like when we settle into the reality of what it might mean to be unfixed? And what if you were kidnapped by your own grandparents and left with an endless well of mysteries about yourself and those around you? These are just a few extraordinary puzzles will be exploring in our ninth season of Family Secrets. With over 32 million downloads and nearly 100 unique stories in our feed, we continue to be in awe of our guests, whose stories of courage and tenacity about breaking through the walls of secrecy never fail to amaze. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of Family Secrets. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'll get your podcasts.

Well, I think to your point of people talking about it a lot, they talk about it like it's a bad thing, and I think of it as a good thing. If you're embarking on a position in a new job or you're starting a company or whatever you're doing that's new to you, that's amazing. Like you're starting something new, you're taking that leap of faith, you're putting yourself in a. Like you're starting something new, you're taking that leap of faith,

you're putting yourself in a situation that you've not been in, and that's really scary, for sure, but it's also really exciting and exhilarating, and it means you're growing, and you're in this next new phase in your life. And so this negative association with imposter syndrome as if it's like a bad thing, it has definitely happened to me

I think maybe because I never had any real formal training and anything other than hair Where I would start a job and I was like I know I'm under qualifies for this job But I'm gonna like figure it out and I and I would you know and I guess that was part of it Like yes, I am an imposter technically. I don't know how to do this job But you better believe I'm gonna figure it out and do it well. And it's no different with entrepreneurship. I mean, when we started Dry Bar, I had never been in charge of that many people. I'd never managed a salon.

Like, my parents didn't I watch them, and I worked for owners of hair salons, and I've been a stylist for years. Like, I had a lot of the things that I think I needed to have, but I had never actually done it. And so I was learning it as I went, which was scary, but also amazing. And I also think when you come in,

again, nothing I could have articulated them, but I turn my think we're hearing more and more now is this like beginner's mindset. You know, and I had that when we were starting drive-bar because I was quite literally a beginner and running a business. And I made a lot of mistakes and I had to figure out a lot of things.

And that's also the beauty of this book is that I feel like I got an education in this. I got like a business degree while I was running a business because I was having to figure all these things out. And I made tons of wrong decisions and bad choices. You know, I also think I felt, it's not necessarily imposter syndrome, but I think I felt this like immense pressure because I was the boss. Like I had to know all the answers,

and I had to like, if you came to me and asked me a question about the business, I had to be like, well, here's what I think. Even though it wasn't always right, it was just like me having, and I used to think that that was like, oh, you're just the boss, and you just, you, the book stops with you,

and you have to. And now I feel like, and how I approach that question now is like, well, what do you think? Which is not something I would have said, and that's like, I think that was all you go, because I was like, oh, I feel this pressure, like I'm supposed to know the answer because I'm sitting where I'm sitting in this company.

And now I'm like, well, what do you think about that? And then people are like, what? You know? And I'm like, well, I don't, I actually don't know the answer, but I'd love to hear what you think. But? And then people are like, what? And I'm like, well, I actually don't know the answer, but I'd love to hear what you think. But I didn't have enough, I was too focused on feeling like I had to be, and maybe that does go back

to Imposter Syndrome. I felt like I needed to know all the answers because I was the boss, and this was my company, and blah, blah, blah, where now I'm like, there's so much freedom in saying, I don't know, like let's talk about it. And then the culture that you create in a company when you're like the kind of boss that's not a know it all

and people aren't afraid to be like, hey, Jay, I actually think that if we tried this, this and that, I'm sure people do that in your company. Like when someone comes up to you and they're like, I actually think if we try blah, blah, blah, and your response is like, no, they're never coming to you with something again. But if your response is like, oh, that's interesting, you know, and you may not always take it,

but that feeling to me like a beginner's mindset of like, I'm open to other ways. And I think that there's a part of, I know there's a part of me that gets a little like, you know, and it's also like, I feel like I know best and we go into our ego of like, no, but I know what I'm doing, but embracing what somebody else is bringing to you,

I think is really powerful and that's something that took me a long time to get comfortable with. Yeah, there's something that you've reminded me on your talk about this on page 52, you're saying, being open to feedback, personal or professional as a practice, a learned intention to stop taking the information, maybe going to walk, take some deep breaths and come back, open to hearing what someone else is feeling.

And I wanted to ask you, what's been the best or most memorable piece of feedback that you gained on your professional journey that's kind of stuck with you, where maybe even in the moment it was so painful to hear, but you now look back and go, I believe that. Well, I think thinking of feedback as a gift, which I learned pretty early on, and I remember somebody in our company who said it, I heard her say it once, and I was like, wow, that's so profound, because if you can be open to what someone is telling you, which is so hard and it is painful. And you know, I remember my brother saying to me once, like, people are scared of you.

And I was like, what? You know, just no awareness on my part. Like, I was like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? What do you mean before scared of me? Like, and he was like, well, because, you know, yeah, this joke. But in the moment, I really was taken aback by it.

And I was like, I'm so nice. What do you mean? And he was like, well, you walk in the stores, and you lose your mind. And I was like, I do that because I'm so passionate. And I was covering it up with, like, I'm so passionate. And know? And I was covering it up with like, I'm so passionate and I want things to be perfect and I did, but I would learn over time that that walking in and like, you know, I would,

I would, you could see it all over my face because I was like, why are the floorboards dirty? Why is the music not up? Why did this person not get greedy that way? Well, I mean, just for me, it was like, you know, it was like sensory overload of everything that was wrong, which I think is a blessing in a curse, because you're like, well, I am the person,

this is my baby, like I am the person who has to be the one that's like, this is not working and we need to fix this. But I also would learn that I, people were excited when I would come in the store and they wanted to tell me the good things and I did start to perpetuate this reputation of like, Ali's come and watch out. And you know, part of me was like, I think maybe that's a good thing.

But then I was like, no, it's not. And I would learn eventually to, you know, like I would take notes and I would then like, you know, not like ruin everybody's day when I would come in the store. You know, and I had to learn that the hard way, but it really did take my brother, probably one of the only few people in our company who felt comfortable enough to say to me

because he wasn't scared to me. You know, he'd be like, people are scared of you. And I, again, at first I was very defensive and I told him he was wrong and, you know, I was also my big brother. But it really like sunk in and I was like, man, I don't want that.

I don't want people to be scared of me. I want people to be able to talk to me. I don't want people to feel like they have to protect me either, which is also another thing that drove me crazy and still does to this day. Like, I don't, and I'm sure you agree with this, like, you don't want to be surrounded by yes people. Like, please, no.

Tell me, tell me the truth. Tell me what people are saying. I want to know people are thinking if I can't ascertain that on my own, you know? So, if you have people around you who are willing to give you like the feedback, it's like you're only gonna be better for it, you know, it stings in the moment and it's still does.

Like, you know, sometimes someone will tell me something and I'll be like, oh gosh, like I can't believe that. And then if you're open to it and then you, then now you have the awareness about it. And I'll tell you, I'm like, I don't think you have children, right? For me, I have a 16 and 18 year old two boys and talk about honesty.

I'm really, really close to my kids, but they will tell me things that are very hard here. And it is a real practice, a mental exercise for me to not, and my kids used to say to me, because during the dry bar era, when I was, I guess, a little scary, you know, my, my kids would even say to me like, we don't know what version you're gonna, of you were gonna get. Which is like, oh, yeah. And I was like, but I know that now. And now like the power is in my control. Like I can be like, okay, and it literally

just happened. I was with my son, okay, and it literally just happened. I was with my son, is that Dennison and university in Ohio, he's playing football, and I went out to see him. And this, you know, he, he, like came off the field, you know, and he was like, he didn't really wanna talk about some of the stuff that we wanna talk about. And my younger son said to me, like, just give him a minute, mom. And I was like, what?

He's like, just give him a minute. And I was like, oh right, you know, because as a mom and anybody listening to this, who's a mom, you was like, what? He's like, just give him a minute and I was like, oh right, you know, because as a mom and anybody listening to this who's a mom, you're like, when your kid isn't like perfect and happy, you're like, what's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? How can I fix it? Like, you know, we get, we go into that like mom of bear protective mode and my younger

son looked at me and he's like, mom, give him a minute. And I, I did get defensive with him for a second and I was like, what are you talking about? You know, and he's like, you know, and I was like, you're right, you know, and I was like, okay, and I thanked him, you know, and I backed up and I was like, when he's ready to talk to me about it, he'll talk to me about it. And sure enough, he did a couple hours later, he opened up and it was like such a great lesson and reminder of like, sometimes you know know you need to give people space and you can't just have what you want when you want it

And and that's been a really hard lesson for me and I think it's also like being At the at the helm of a company and and having this like mentality of like I can do and say whatever I want Because I'm the boss and blah blah you can just do whatever that bleeds over in so your real life Which I you know my kids are kind of a living example of that, of like, you know, and I used to say things to my kids, like, I've been around longer than you guys, and I just know, and they're like,

you don't always know, mom, you know? And it's like, you know, so your kids are like, talk about mirrors, you know? And they've, they've, all of that awareness, I think has been such a gift to me. And that you can get that anywhere in your life, from your best friend, from your spouse, from someone who works for you or with you. It's like, if you ask genuinely, they're going to tell you, and like, what a gift to like get that awareness, you know, and it does sting for a second. And then you're like,

oh, okay, I'm going to take that and be better. My best friend tells me stuff too, you know? It's like, oh, thank you, you know? Yeah, and it requires that beginner's mindset, that humility to accept and receive it. And my wife does it with me all the time. It's so much easier to defend yourself, to mask yourself, to shield yourself in a false sense. And what you don't realize is every time you pretend to shield yourself from good feedback,

you're just setting yourself up for more downfall to the heavens again and again. Yeah. And the ego is so well equipped to keep drawing the sword and cutting down everything in its way. And it's perfect at it because that's its job. Yeah. But it's not protection.

It's actually your resilience is getting thinner and thinner and thinner and getting weaker and weaker and weaker. I wanted to ask you because you're shifting into that. You know, I love how honest you were about the kind of feedback you get from kids. I think people often talk about, oh, you know, my kids said, I'm not cool anymore. I get whatever that kind of stuff. And I'm like, that doesn't sting, but hearing this kind of stuff, do you think it's because you definitely have a take on this in your book? Like, do you think it's

possible to be really materially successful and have a happy marriage? Like, are those two things possible? My first marriage, which was like 16 years, didn't work, not because of the business. And I think that it's like I joke a lot that like people were like, you know, it must have been hard to work with your husband. I was like, yeah, we got divorced, you know, but that's not really, you know, it's a joke, which of course is like a deflection. But more true was that like we probably never should have gotten married in the first

place. Like we met and we were 26. And I'm pretty sure I put this in the book that he tried to call the wedding off a month before the wedding. And I was like, oh no, we are not doing that. Like and he had some real good reasons for that. Like You know the relationship was really hot and heavy in the beginning. It had faded quite a bit like the intimacy wasn't really there, but we were best friends and I would later learn that like my parents had that marriage, which they ended up getting divorced too. And I think I definitely emulated my parents marriage, which is just wild when you read all that about how we do that, because I didn't see it at all. But you know, we had kids very quickly,

which I really wanted. I was very like, I'm very driven. And I was like, I want children. And so we had kids a year after we got married. And then, you know, like I said, we started the business. Drybar, when my kids were three and five. So it was like boom, boom, boom. And Drybar felt like a third baby. And then, you know, Cam was doing all the creative. And I was doing all the other stuff.

And so, you know, we're on this path. And I knew all along. And so did he, even though we didn't want to admit it, that like this wasn't like, this can't be it. This can't be like what it's supposed to be. But, you know, we didn't want to like, disrupt our lives, and we, you know, it's just like, it's a lot to get divorced,

and I didn't want to be a divorced person. And I liked the facade that I had, at least two really cute boys, with great hair and this amazing husband. And he was like, you know like the brainchild of the creative of Dry Bar, which was amazing. I was like, I loved the way the package looked, but I knew it wasn't right.

The material success, I didn't want to shatter the whole image. And obviously, I've come to realize that you have to, and that's the message, truth of it all. And then I made the really hard decision to end the marriage. And then my son who's now 18 and doing really well at Denison, he went into rehab because he started doing drugs.

And there's a whole chapter about that. And just my life completely unraveled, you know? And and and to your question, it was like, on this hand, I had all this success. And I was like doing all this cool stuff. And like anybody who didn't know me, I was like, on this hand, I had all this success. And I was like, doing all this cool stuff. And like, anybody who didn't know me, I was like, I was a guess on Shark Tank. Like, the coolest thing ever.

I was like on Ink Magazine, the cover. I mean, all these really cool things were happening. And you look at my life, like, wow, what a cool life she's got. And then all this success, and I was being, you know, praise, and it was great. But then my life was falling apart, you know? And so no, I didn't have, I wasn't able to like hold both. And then I come out of grant after about two years, like it really worked all the treatment.

We put grant through and he really came out on top and he really did the work and he's such a, I mean, he ended up in a couple different programs. One of them was an outdoor wilderness program in Utah, which I actually think every human should probably have to go through. We went to visit him once and he was making fire out of two sticks. He was learned how to, I mean, the thing, it was amazing. I was like, this is really profound. He really came out such a better person on the other side.

It also brought me and my ex together because we had to like do group family, group therapy and family there and all the things and it was also one of those things that I actually thought might kill me because it was so painful. But it actually was a blessing in disguise. I mean the inside and the person that grant turned into and the other side of that is just remarkable. And it brought me and my ex back together as friends and we learned how to co-parent because of all that.

And even my younger son really, but I mean, it was all such an amazing blessing at the time. I wouldn't have ever asked for that. And so it was like the both-hand and the odds and the duality of what I was living. And then I came out of that situation and rushed back into another relationship

that was like, now I'm looking for real love because I didn't feel like I had it the way I wanted it in my first marriage and then I jump into that. And at that time, we were like, it was right before that I met him like five months before the pandemic and I was already kind of like transitioning out of dry bar in a lot of ways because the company was so big, we had so many people running it now and what I was doing on of like transitioning out of dry bar in a lot of ways because the company was so big

We had so many people running it now and what I was doing on a day-to-day basis wasn't really there anymore and and now I was like, you know, just looking for love and like and then I found it and I was like, oh I think this is what it's supposed to be and and I was you know madly in love with this man And I wasn't paying attention to anything else, you know, and to any of the red flags that were there, then I now really see you were there. And so I get to your question, which is such a good one, like I couldn't hold both, you know, it was like I,

now I was like stepping away from dry bar, and now I was stepping into just love, and I lost, completely lost myself on that side, you know, it was like I lost myself in the dry bar world and put my love life and even my kids a little bit on hold. And now I was in the other side of it where I'm madly in love and I lost the other side of my own personal purpose. And I kind of amashed into his world and I was like, my God.

And now, as you know, we're going through divorce and I could never have imagined that would happen, but on the other side of it, I'm like, oh, yeah. It's like, what I haven't learned yet, which I'm hoping I get now, is that I have to keep myself intact. Like, what do I love? And what do I want to be doing?

And can I love somebody else do I want to be doing and can I love somebody else While I'm in that place because I would throw everything else out the window It was like when I was building dry bar It was like only dry bar when I was like falling in love with this new man It was only him and I lost myself and like he was building a business and he was really busy And he had little kids and whatever and so I threw myself into his world and like kind of forgot about myself. And even now, and hasn't been that long, but I'm like coming back into my own

and I'm like this book and I have all these projects and I'm like, oh, I'm getting back to myself. And I would like to have love too, but also. And so it's such a good question. I love that you asked it because I haven't been able to find it yet. And I get it now. And now I'm anxious to try it out.

And be like, can I be in love, madly in love, have the right kind of love with a person and myself and what I'm doing. I haven't been able to figure that out yet. And I think a lot of us, it falls, one of those things inevitably fall by the way. I guess, I don't know. I don't know how other people's lives are like. I just, it's funny, I was, we were talking to a couple recently

and they were, the wife said something like, our marriage is good enough and I was like, oh, and she said it in front of her husband and the husband was like, and I was like, oh, there's definitely some stuff to go on back over there. But it is interesting and it's like, oh, there are definitely some stuff to go on back over there. But it is interesting and it's like, how do you do that?

I mean, I don't know if you guys have figured it out. Oh, I mean, the first thing is the challenging thing about any relationship, whether it's business or marriage, is that there's two minds. And as we know, our mind is always changing and growing and evolving. Now imagine that times too. Are they changing at the same time in the same way? No. Are they having the same thought at the same time every day? No. Do they have the same dreams and aspirations every day? No. And so we should be

more surprised when people get together and stay together than when people are separated and move apart. It's actually remarkable that anyone could spend their life with another person for a long amount of time than it is that people find it hard to stay with you. I mean, that statement in and of itself makes me feel so good because it's like, I've had this shame. I didn't want to be divorced once. And now I'm heading into divorce twice. And I really, I think a lot of my

Sadness and grief when this first happened was because I was like Embarrass and I was like I What like this second marriage I'm getting divorced again like holy shit You know and just all the like shame was wrong with me But it's such which is why I really love and I hope people who are listening to that like feel that too because and I I was telling you before like I get a lot of people who now reach out to me and are like I'm Really unhappy in my marriage. Should I leave my husband? I'm like, I don't know don't ask me But like it's a good thing to ask yourself, you know, and I do think you're right

It's like we grow and change and you know and in my case I don't think we were having the right conversations enough of like, and we ignored a lot of things. And granted, it was like a really weird time and our relationship got very fast-tracked because of COVID and like we moved in together after five months. I don't know that we would have done that,

had COVID not thrust this like very crazy change into all of our lives. And I think it all happened the way it was supposed to, but it is a like, yeah, we're always growing and changing. And how do you do that together? There's two kind of thought experiments that I think can help people with what we're talking about, not as solutions, but as, and it's what you just said.

If you're not having the right conversations with yourself, and if you're not having the right conversations with that person, everything's gonna to feel like a surprise. And everything's going to kind of be a random event. And all you can do, you can't make someone stay with you and you can't make something work. All you can actually do is track whether you're getting closer or moving further apart. That's actually all you can do is track and monitor, because like I said, so much is changing all the time. And so all you can do is track and monitor, because like I said, so much is changing all the time, and so all you can do is track change. You can't force a result

or a direction. You can only track change and try and move closer together and move apart. And it's what you said, like I think when we think about the word balance, if you think about it, we all have a finite number of hours. We have a finite number of resources, and we have a finite number of amount of energy. So if you had a hundred percent and you said you've got yourself, you've got your partner, you've got your work, you've got your kids, and then you've got your family, and you put 20% into each of those. Now you're going to get a 20% result on each of those. That's a balanced life if we look at it in that way. So if it doesn't work. It doesn't work, or it may work for someone,

but the idea of them being, okay, well now, you've got like a 80% return on your career, which means 80% of your energy was going into the work part, which means then 5% was going to all the others. She's got a huge A-pacense. Yeah, that was me in the driver error, yeah. Right, and so when we look at that, we just go, well, how can any human ever achieve perfection,

any human, including me, including everyone, we're so, everyone is so limited that our ability to make everything and everyone happy and successful is mathematically impossible. Yeah, it's true. So if it's mathematically impossible, let's stop pretending that we're able to nail every part of every life. And let's be honest and say, I'm focusing on this in this era or this phase or this month or this year. That naturally means I can't focus on these three areas. And I think people who stay together or adapt or whatever in a healthy way are people who found a way of saying,

I understand what you're focusing on, and I get that and I respect it. But guess what, when you're back and you have time, I may be focusing on something else. And so I think anyone who's navigating their relationship in a healthier way does know better or worse, but in a way that we would consider healthier is only because two people are Communicating as you said enough. Yeah, when they're just having conversations. Yeah, it doesn't mean there's a perfect standard

Or there's complete intimacy at all times or they're having the best you know sexual relationships at all times while everything else is going on Like it's not possibly mathematically impossible. Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting too because I think You don't want you're avoiding dealing with something that you know is there. It's like you said, you're not always gonna be on the same page, you're gonna grow differently and whatever, and it's like, in our case,

it was like we weren't, you have to, again, I don't mean to be like a broken record, but going back to like that inner voice of like, for me, I knew there were things that weren't right. And I think now, and I work with therapist and coach, and I want to be people, because I love getting, is I love getting as much, I mean, now I'm like, I love the feedback, give me all the feedback.

I really want to hear as many perspectives as I can. And from people that I really trust and admire, and one of the things that I really want to hear as many perspectives as I can. And from people that I really trust and admire, and one of the things that I was talking to a mic hoax about recently was like, because I've been trying to put a bow on this to make myself feel better about it not working. And I've come to realize, if we had had the conversation that we weren't having,

you know, the right, I mean, you're shaking your head because you know what I'm gonna say. What if we had talked about the thing? Maybe it would have worked. Maybe it wouldn't have worked. Like obviously nobody knows, you know, and he and I had that conversation in the aftermath of all of this.

Like had we called out, you know, one of the big things that wasn't working for us early on that we both did not want to call out because it would have potentially probably meant the end of the relationship, and we didn't want that. You know, we were very like rocked up in like the excitement and the newness and the lust and the chemistry and the passion

and all the things that happened when you're brain, I mean, I'm sure I'm sure there's some science and I'm like, what happened to you right? It's only my book, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but, you know, and so we weren't, we didn't have this conversation, and perhaps had we had it Maybe it would have shifted and we could have figured something out that would have changed the trajectory of our relationship

And it may be it had worked and maybe it wouldn't have but we didn't even have the conversation You know and that and that's the thing it's like You have to have those honest conversations in work and business you know in business in your personal life And if you're avoiding them It's gonna come back around like you can be sure of business, you know, in business in your personal life. And if you're avoiding them, it's gonna come back around. Like you can be sure of that, you know? Yeah, I always say there are like, there are four check-ins that I do with my wife regularly. And so every day I try and ask a simple one,

what was your highlight of the day or what was exciting today? Which is- I love that, yeah. Which is- I love that, yeah. Anyone can ask that, very simple. Every week or month, I'll ask, you know, is there something coming up that I can help you with? Like, is there something you're struggling with

or something that's on your mind that I need to be aware of or conscious of? Every quarter I'll ask, is this relationship going in the direction you want or is it going in the direction, Iphone? If it isn't, what are we both willing to do to put it in the right direction? Are you willing to do something in a my? And then every year a simple one of like, well, what's your goal this year? What are you pursuing this year?

And those four questions or checkings don't save a relationship. They do what I was saying earlier is they help you track, whether you're on the same page or you're completely on another page. And if you're even aware and conscious and the reason you have to do that is, don't you before check in to do with yourself coming back to your point, like checking with every day and going, what's my highlight today? Checking with myself every week or every month and going, hey, what do I need help with this month? Have I asked for that? Every quarter is my life going in the direction that I wanted to go in and every year,

what am I pursuing? Like, if I'm not checking in that with myself and I'm not checking in that with my wife, then how can I know myself and how can I know this human? And I think the assumption that I know someone, like, you know, me and my wife have only been together for 10 years, but it's all I know is that she's And constantly evolving growing human

just because she's over 30 Doesn't mean that she's fully formed and done and neither am I and just like your children are growing up your sons are Changing and growing. I think we assume that kids grow and adults stay the same. Yeah, and it's like well, wait a minute That's so untrue. Yeah, and and I think that's what kids grow and adults stay the same. Yeah. And it's like, well, wait a minute, that's so untrue. Yeah. And I think that's what I'm always trying to stop my mind from normalizing that, oh, I know her now. Oh, I know how she's going to react.

Yeah, isn't it? It's such a like that fixed mindset. And I'm so guilty of that because I'm such a like, I want everything wrapped up in a pretty bow. I'm like, I like things like really neat and clean and tidy like physically. You know, that I'm like, I just things like really neat and clean and tidy, like physically. You know that I'm like, I just want to know what's happening. And like, you know, accepting uncertainty and like, life is completely uncertain.

And if you can surrender to that, like, but I, it's just, it's hard. It's hard. You know, it is really hard to be like, okay, I'm going to like, go with the flow. And I read that, who is it? I'm Bruce Lee's daughter wrote a book called Be Like Water. Oh, yes, this is it. You know, and I was like, I love when I remember it because I feel like I need like posters all over my house of like all the thing that you just had and all these things.

You're like, oh yeah, you can't fight the current. You can't fight it. And it's like if you can surrender to it and like, you know, and the fact that we are always changing and growing and I love that we said about tracking it. And I think there was a phase in our relationship when we were doing more of like check ins and we probably had listened to something like this and we're like, oh, we should be checking in more

and then eventually we stopped doing that. Yeah, and you're like, oh man, we lost, we lost our way. You know, and it's just so easy to do that. And you know, and it really does like straddle the fence on business and personal because I did it all the time in the dry bar Error when I would like, you know stop paying attention to what was going on people around me and stopped having You know those conversations like I really needed to be having and just like would get all like salty and you know Like why wasn't I having this conversation? I was causing my own suffering, you know, and it's like, we just as humans do that, which I, you know, which I think is like the self-awareness piece, it's like the things that we use to

nurture ourselves, like what we're listening to, what we're watching, what we're reading, you know, if you kind of, sometimes I'm like, especially in the last few months having gone through, going through my divorce and being so sad, and I'm like, especially in the last few months having gone through going through my divorce and being so sad and I'm like ingesting so many books and so many things. And I'm like, okay, I've read enough. I'm done. I'm good. But then I'm like, no, I'm not. I gotta keep re, I mean, I gotta do at least a couple of things a day that like keep

me on that spiritual path, you know, and it's like, which is the word I'm looking for. I don't wanna say it's like a job or responsibility habit, you know. Daily practice. Daily practice, yeah. It's like, it's like, which is the word I'm looking for. I don't wanna say it's like a job or a responsibility habit, you know? Daily practice. Daily practice, yeah. It's like, it's so important. It's so easy to lose track of that, especially when like something you get really excited or you meet somebody new and you're like,

which is exactly what I do. I'm like, oh, I'm so happy now. I'm like, I got it. I don't know, I'm good. I don't need to do it. Then you know, that's stuff anymore. Like, you know, remember, and we're all dead. I wanna thank you for being so honest about it

and so real and being so messy about it because I think that's all of us, right? That's what we're all looking for. And we're all looking to have a perfect start and a perfect end. And we're all looking to have the perfect person and the perfect relationship with ourselves. And none of that exists.

Talk me through this because I have so many friends who like you would feel shame and guilt for that exists. Talk me through this because I have so many friends who, like you, would feel shame and guilt for getting divorced, and so they never will. Or I have a couple of friends that have kind of had the courage to get to the other side, but they now experience the judgment or they feel the shame that comes from other people's projection of it.

What is the hardest thing about getting divorced? What's the toughest part about it? I've been on both sides of it now. The first of wars after 16 years, feeling like the love that I wanted, and intimacy that I wanted wasn't there. It was funny, because when I first left the marriage, I was like, you know, like, we're

rearing to go. And I was like, dating really quickly and all of that. And then very quickly, the thing happened with my son. And then I realized that like, dating wasn't so easy. And now I'm a single mom. And at the time, my ex didn't really want to be talking to me. And so it was like, my world spun out of control. And I fell into a bit of a depression.

And I remember people telling me that like, even though you're not in love with your ex-husband anymore, he still held like a space and energy that is no longer there. And it's like a death. And I for months and months and months, I refused to believe that. I was like, it's not a death. Nobody died.

I took it very literally. And I was like, he's alive. I would not allow my brain to like understand that, you know, until I finally did. And it's like, you know, when you, it's like when the students ready, the teacher appears mentality in office, like, I'm sure a lot of people said it to me, but it was like, I was on some show with this guy who wrote a book called Energy Speaks. I don't know if he've ever heard of it. And he was talking about energy and whatever.

And after the show, I pulled him aside and I like very quickly told him it was going on. And I was, and how like I was, you know, coping with my divorce. And I was in this depression. And he was like, listen, your husband, even though you don't love, like love him like that and want to be with him, he still held an energy that's gone. And that is a very big whole, like black hole for you to fill in your life. And it's just going to, you know, take some time, which isn't rocket science.

And I'm sure other people said it to me. But at that moment, I was like, oh my God. When it hits you. It hits, right. And so that change of life of like your whole life being one way and then it becoming another way. And in my case, like my son going through rehab and that like very hard time.

So it was all rolled into like just being hard and I was really sad and I was really struggling and you know and then the identity stuff started to kind of creep in too. And so that was that was hard. I think from like more of an identity like a personal identity standpoint was hard and like a rebuilding my life after so long. This divorce was was quite different. It felt just much more like heartbreak. Like I was heartbroken. Like just heartbroken. And I'd never experienced that kind of heartbreak. I I I recognize now truly that it's it's for the best. And and I think for for both of us for all of us is for the best. But it just hurts so bad that like, to experience heartbreak like that,

where you're like, oh, someone just put it really well that like trauma is the intersection of unexpected and overwhelmed. And I think that's such a simple way to understand trauma. It's like this thing you didn't see coming really, and then the overwhelmed event like the boom, you know, and that's kind of what it was for me. I was like, I may never recover from this.

That's how devastating it was. I mean, I think you know, because I think I talked to you right around the time it was happening. And I was so sad. I was like, I'm never gonna be okay. And I'm okay. And when the fog starts to clear,

because it's real muddy when you're in it. And you know, I mean, quite literally, when you're in fog, you can't see. And it's the perfect analogy to me. It's like I was in so much fog around it. And like my ego was all bent out of shape. And I was worried. My kids were gonna be mad at me

and I was worried what the world was gonna think and all this stuff and then I was like now as the clouds and the fog started to clear I'm like oh no this was not ultimately the right thing you know and maybe in some universe like had we had these conversations we'd done this thing and maybe it would have been right but it just wasn't and this was the way it all went down. And I realized that like, oh, there's a lot of lessons here. And there's a lot of medicine, and I've learned so much. And I'm so grateful for it now. You know, like I'm still coming out of the anger

of it a little bit, but I am ultimately just really grateful for all the lessons that I've learned. And I think I said this earlier, I like who I am on almost every level now, more than I did then. I had, it was a lot of tough lessons I had to learn. And I was looking at myself in this lens that I had not looked at myself through of like,

why he made that decision and why he didn't want the marriage anymore, which is just, I mean, you can imagine, you put yourself in those in that for a second. If your wife was like, I want to divorce right now, you would just be like, it's devastating if you're, you know, in love with somebody. But then went into, I was like, try, I've tried to now put myself in the very painful place of like, why? Why didn't he want to be with me? And sure, like not to go down the rabbit hole of like I'm a terrible person and I'm not worthy, it's not that, it's more of like,

let me see what the things were that I don't like about myself that I can now see through his eyes. And this is not a conversation with him. This is a conversation with me and how I perceived a lot of things and the way I acted and the way I showed up a lot that I don't like, you know, that I'm like, oh, I don't ever wanna show up like that again.

And what a gift and what a lesson to like be this better version of myself now. So to answer your question, those were like the hardest things of it, but it is, I'm literally living proof that you can, you will get through it. And everybody kept saying that to me. And I would grasp onto that. Like when people would say, you're going to be okay.

It's going, I promise you're going to be okay. And I would like hold onto that. Like, thank you. I needed other people to say it to me, because I couldn't find it in myself. I couldn't, I didn't believe it. But if enough people said it to me, like, I believe it. But if enough people said it to me, like I promise you, and so many people said that to me, I promise you you're gonna be okay.

It's a beautiful thing to have like a community of people around you that will tell you that and I'm like, are you sure? Like, do you know? And they're like, I know, you know? And it's lofty, but it's true, you know? So. You know what I find so, hope giving about your choices is that you turn

towards people, things, ideas that would help and support you. And I think that that's the hard part. Like it's so easy and it's natural and should not be judged at all, but it's so easy for you to go off the rails and go in different directions. Yeah. And the fact that you had the inner wisdom and the intuition to talk, but it's so easy for you to go off the rails and go in different directions.

And the fact that you had the inner wisdom and the intuition to say, actually, I'm going to turn towards advice and therapy and coaching and insight and learning and reading and hearing this message from a supportive community. Like, that's what I want people to take away. It's the one you to hear that that's the choice we have to try and make. And something you said, this concept you were talking about, the intersection, something sparked for me as you said that. And I was going to complete your sentence, but I didn't want to because you knew what I, you know, I didn't know what you were going to say. And that's why I waited because I didn't

know what you'd read or heard. But I was thinking about it that when I heard the word, when you think about trauma or even like a trigger that eventually leads to trauma, it's actually the intersection between an unexpected event But a familiar feeling And so there's what you were talking about earlier as well like how you repeat your parents marriage Like the idea that it's an unexpected because you didn't think you would ever do that Right, then it's a really familiar feeling and And you're like, oh, I feel that. Or like, I'm going through a divorce. Someone's asking for a divorce.

It's an unexpected event. But it's a familiar feeling of, I don't like myself already. And this is a reminder of something I know deep down. Yeah. And it's that familiarity with that unexpectedness that completely converges to create such disharmony and misalignment internally.

Yeah, it really does. It's so painful. Because you're like, and it's amazing when you have like a great support system around you telling you that, no, you're a good person. It's like, you know, my best friend, and she would tell me, like we would, yes,

you have culpability here, you know? And we would, she knew it, my relationship very well because she's my best friend. But no, you're not a bad person. There are things that you've had to learn about yourself and there are things that you want to change, but there doesn't mean you're a bad person. And it's hard to live in that duality

of beating yourself up in the shame that we can put on ourselves because this marriage failed. And I'm like, in the beginning, I was like this marriage failed, I'm a terrible person. No one's ever going to love me again. Any man I'm going to date is going to be like, oh, you were married twice. Sorry. See, you know, which isn't true. But it is the things that we do, which I have spent a lot of time, a lot of the stuff that I read is on mindset and the brain and how powerful the brain is and how we can change our thoughts and that stuff's also fascinating to me, you know, like that you can, we have control. I didn't believe that until now, like until very recently,

I was like, it is what it is, you know, but now I'm like, oh, we can change our thoughts and we can decide. And it's like, to me, there's like, well, you still got to grieve the thing. But I can also, because I was like, I started listening to Joe D'Spenza. Of course, yeah, he's been on the show four times. I love it. I think I might have discovered it through your show, actually. I love that guy. And I love what he says. But I had and I, but I, I had the people be like, yeah, his stuff is great, but like you still have to grieve the stuff.

Because I was like, I'm just gonna believe this, you know, and it's like, but there's still the grief over there. And I think that's another challenging part of like anything, like dying is like the grief your body physically needs to go through. If you change your mindset too fast and like, you know, it's kind of an interesting, I think it's a little abode, I'm really fascinated by the whole thing

the brain can do. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. When you look at grief and loss, it's like there's the grief and loss of that person. Right. And then there's the grief and loss of the person you were with that person. Yes.

And there are two different things because you were a particular type of yourself. There was a part of yourself that was connected to that individual. And now not only has that person gone, that part that you'd created with them has also gone. Yeah. And it's no longer existing. And so there's some identity is such a fascinating subject in and of itself and it's like you weren't complete in the first place either.

And so there's just so many layers to it that are so challenging and all of these things that you're talking about, whether it's your work, your marriage, your kids, they put a spotlight onto all of this and all the gaps. What would you say was the most important lesson you took away from your first relationship and then your second relationship because you've just you were talking so much about It was all about lessons out there. And what would you say was the first one that you took away from the first and then from the second

What have you taken away? What's been the big Lesson that stayed with you. You know, I think for me and it's pretty vulnerable to say but like it was like Oh, I think I rushed into both of my marriages because I didn't want to be alone, and I wanted to be in a relationship, and I just wanted to be in a relationship. They were right enough. They don't think anything's ever perfect, of course. But, you know, I realized there were things in both of my

marriages that weren't like exactly what I wanted them to be. And again, it's a hard thing to say because it's like nothing's ever exactly what you want it to be. With some of the things that were happening with us, I think I actually was pretty open and honest about them, but what we weren't open and honest about was like what I actually needed it to be. And if it wasn't gonna be that,

then it probably wasn't gonna work. And we both needed to come to terms with that. So I think the lesson is really level setting, what you need and what that other person needs, not just what you need. Like sometimes you have to be the one that's willing to say, I don't think this is gonna work because blah, blah, but to me,

I don't think I've ever been strong enough to be like, I'm completely in love with you, but I don't think this relationship is gonna work. Like, who can do that? That's so hard, I'm sure in love with you, but I don't think this relationship is gonna work. Like, who can do that? That's so hard. I'm sure people do. You know, it's like, I think about it like, so silly. I think just because I've watched so many movies in my life,

like Legend of the Fall, did you ever see Legend of the Fall? You know what I mean? It's like, it just, I came to me recently. I was like, you know, you watch one of those movies and like you want the like the love story to work and then it doesn't. And you're like, and you walk out of that movie. It's like so sad and you're like I just wanted them to be together. You know and that's how I feel in the second

marriage like I really wanted it to work and as the viewer watching the movie you're like I know I wasn't right. I wasn't supposed to be and it's like you know and that's how I feel like legends of the fall like I feel like I'm Lola land. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We're together at the end, you know, you're and you watch that movie and I've watched it a couple times such a great movie and you're like, you know, she marries another guy and you're sorry for anybody who hasn't watched Lola land. It's been a while. Yeah. And it's that is how really how it's like landed for me in

this like sometimes like what we want to work just doesn't, you know, and you have to just learn to accept it. And I think that's that's been the big lesson for me is like, you know, a lot of people and people close to me know and have said to me in the aftermath of this like you've had things work out for you pretty well most of your life, you know, and I have and I'm really blessed and lucky in that way. And this has been like one of the first things that like didn't work out the way I wanted to and I couldn't control it. No matter what I did, I couldn't change the outcome. And like, that's rough. And I know a lot of people have dealt with that on a much bigger and the harder scale than

me. And so that was a real lesson. I'm like, surrender. Like you just don't get control. You know? I look at my first marriage and think that like, we were married for so long and for so long. I didn't have that like electric chemistry love that I wanted. But yet I had these two amazing kids

and I built this great business. And so like that was enough for me. You know, in this stage of my life, I feel like I actually want more of it all now, you know, where I was always like, well, I have this. I don't have that, but I have this. And now I'm like, I want to do something that I really love and feel passionate about for myself. And I want to have a great love too. And now I'm trying to find both. Yeah, absolutely. And, and you know, Ali, like, whatever you really appreciate about you

honestly, this conversation, the book, is like, you're the real deal. Like a lot of people will say, they wanna share their messy truth and they want to tell what's really going on. And I think it's almost like, we're still trying to do it because it sounds and looks vulnerable, but it isn't.

And that's not, you know, and I think that hearing from you today, all I've heard is the messy truth and it's not being, I can't think of anyone who's listening to this that isn't gonna feel comforted, supported, held, and feel connected to your journey in some way. I don't think it's mathematically, spiritually, emotionally possible for someone to master every area of their life perfectly at all times.

I just want to throw that out there because we still keep putting it up when we say things like power couple, when we say things like, oh my god, the perfect match. When we say things like, you know, we don't realize how many ideas we've put into the world. Yeah. That, oh my God, did you know they have both billionaires now and they're both, and it's like, you have no idea just how many ideas you're, we plant seeds in people's minds that these headlines exist in reality. Yeah.

And if you're someone who knows anyone, you know that the headline is so untrue about everyone. And that doesn't mean people kind of healthy relationships. It doesn't mean people kind of happy relationships, but do people have perfect relationships? No, and do people have perfect businesses? No, and do people have perfect anything? No. And so it's a mindset that we've all been so conditioned to believe. It's why we feel sad when Ryan Gosling doesn't end up with Emma Stone. Like it's because we've been taught that that is the perfect ending.

That is the perfect ending. And there's so much wiring that we have to uncross. And that's the work you're doing. And I think that that's what I'm so appreciative of watching and observing you on this journey is you're so courageously and bravely doing the hard unlearning. Yeah, there's a, reminds me of, you know, I'm sure you're familiar with Michael Singer and, you know, I'm telling you. Of course, I'm telling you. Yeah, there have been a few books that I'm like, I've listened to on repeat, you're just like, I just got to keep listening to this to get like through the day.

It didn't sink into me until I started thinking about the whole repeat. You're just like, I just got to keep listening to this to get through the day. It didn't sink into me until I started thinking about the whole movie thing, which was like, he was like, you know, if you're in heartbreak or you're in sadness, he's like, he equated it to, again, it only connected for me recently, not when he said it, but this idea of, when you watch a movie and you get sad about something,

it's like, you, and, but then you tell all your friends about it and you talk about it, it's like you almost like the sadness and the emotion that it brings in, but it's just like, when it happens to you, you don't like it quite as much, but if you can put yourself in that, like it's just your movie, you know, and you're just watching it

and you're not gonna feel sad forever, you know, it's such a good perspective of it. It's funny how it's like, come full circle for me. I'm like, oh, this is my sad movie. And it's sad, but it's also okay, you know. Yeah, and it's almost like just like a movie when you walk in and watch one part of a movie,

you don't get the full picture. Yeah, yeah. So you walked in on a sad scene, or you walked in on a scene where one guy's chasing another guy and you think the guy being chased is the bad guy, but actually it's the good guy. Like there's just so much, we look at people's lives in snapshots.

Like that, yeah, fascinating. You can't tell who's what and who's who and who's the villain and who's the hero. And yeah, becoming an observer in our own life is so hard to do, but. Ali, we end every episode of On purpose with a final five. Okay. And so these are your final five. They have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

Oh, I will ask you to go off if I feel like it. So question number one, what is the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received? Progress over perfection. I think that as entrepreneurs, we get stuck in this and I see it all the time of like, oh, I can't start this because I don't have this and I don't know this and I don't have enough money on this, but just start and it's never going to, I mean, we just, we just talked about this. It's never going to be perfect, but just go, you'll get it, you'll figure it out as you go. And I think that's what people don't realize,

that I have fully agree with you, and that's where the mistakes are made, but the problem is there's no other path. So if you just waited, waited, waited. You never get anywhere. You never make any mistakes, but you never get anywhere. And if you start and you stumble,

you will make loads of mistakes, and that's what kind of exposes you, and there's all these flaws and everything, but you've got somewhere, and it's that awkward messiness. Yeah, and it's like, it's hard in the moment. Like anything that's like worth anything is hard in the moment.

You know, it's like the mistakes are hard, it sucks, but you learn from them and it's very cliche, but it is so true. You know, in your right, if you don't get into a relationship, like, you know, I have a friend who like, is like, hasn't gotten into a relationship because she kind of scared. I'm like, you just go.

And even if it's not a good one, just go and learn from it. Go ahead and that date. Absolutely. Second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received? It's interesting that earlier you pointed out how I took the advice from the women

that I was serving in my mobile business. What I didn't do was take the advice from like a bunch of men who didn't understand this business, you know? And I'm not a big fan of like decision by committee. Yeah, yeah. Not to say that I don't want like trusted people around me to help me. No, no, I'm just saying.

Yeah, it's like I don't believe in this like, let me just ask a million people and then figure it out. Like I love using, you know, Steve Jobs, I don't believe in this. Let me just ask a million people and then figure it out. I love using Steve Jobs, obviously a brilliant, brilliant man. It's like nobody knew that we didn't know we needed iPhones, and maybe we don't need iPhones, but we sure love them, but we didn't know we needed them. No, I know what you're saying.

Yeah, even I feel like I saw a preview of the new movie coming out about the founders of Blackberries. Oh, I wonder what's that? I didn't know that. Oh, I know I saw it. I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it. And because the story is really fascinating, it's like, I think the premise of it

is that the founder of Blackberry, this is so aproposive what we're talking about, it's like the people in his company came to him and said like, I think there's something coming out. We need to change from what we're doing and like go into this smartphone world. And he was like, no, there's something coming out. We need to change from what we're doing and like go into this smartphone world. And he was like, no, that's not gonna work. That's not gonna happen.

Everybody in the company was like, and Rodolia is gonna happen. And obviously we know it happened in Blackberry went away, which by the way, my brother had the last Blackberry standing as he loved the little buttons. A lot of people did. And in Blackberry was like revolutionized. Of course, they were amazing.

They were the first thing, you know? But this story, as I believe it's set up in the preview is like, that company could have taken the similar path as I phoned it, but they didn't. And again, I'm loosely remembering the story, but I just think it's really fascinating that you got something you gotta just like try something and see if it's gonna work and see if people are gonna want it

And I'm I've always been a massive fan of see jobs and I'm like so many others and the iPhone and you know It's like it's just so cool like this, you know Like he invented this thing that became this thing, you know, and so you know I feel like don't ever get to caught up in what people think of your idea. Yeah, yeah There's you reminded me of famous quote from Henry Ford. He said, if I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. Yeah.

And like, I'm gonna steal that. I mean, that's great. Yeah, because that is what it is. Yeah, if you do that committee and that focus group, it's, you can't necessarily think beyond what you see. Yeah. And so many ideas don't make into me, it just fail and lots of them don't work,

but somebody's got to try. We wouldn't get anywhere. Absolutely. All right, question number three, what is one habit mindset or practice that you believe every entrepreneur should try to develop? Some sort of awareness practice, whether it's through entrepreneurship,

I listen to your meditations all the time. Yeah, and I've gotten into this place of every morning before I, not always, but most of the time. I get on my phone and check all my stuff and do all the things. Like I keep my phone on sleep mode and get into a meditation while I'm still in bed. And I think that quiet time in the morning

and then I'll usually write for a little while, not even like a page, just something to get the cobwebs out almost. And I think it's just important as a human, but as an entrepreneur, just like level set yourself. And I really try to do it before I go to bed at night too. I always go to sleep now,

whether I'm really tired or not to some sort of sleep meditation, I think I only catch the first five or two minutes of it. That's good. That means it's good. But I really love that. And I never had to practice like that. Before I'll tell you, I never had to practice like that until my separation happened.

And I was like, you know, I'm by myself. We used to watch TV and then fall asleep and like, that's like one of those things and I'm like, I'm so glad. I almost never turned my TV on in my bedroom anymore. And I know that probably a lot of people don't believe in and that. And I'm actually about to move and I'm like,

don't put a TV in my bedroom. Because I feel like I almost never watch TV in my room anymore because by the time I get in bed, I usually want to read, I want to do my meditation, I want to write because by the time I get in bed, I usually wanna read, I wanna do my meditation, I wanna write, and by the time I do all that, I'm so tired, and I also, I don't know, I pick up so much random information, but I heard somewhere, somebody said it.

Maybe it was you, who knows? Could I watch so much of your stuff? But like by 10.30, you should be off screens. I think it was maybe Hubert Men who said it, and because from 10.30 to four, your brain starts starts to go into depression again. I don't remember the science But I was like whether this churn out I like this like I want to be off my devices by 10 30 And so that's really my goal now Which I used to stay up and watch TV to like midnight, you know

I'm so glad I don't do that anymore. I feel so much better. I mean, I was also on a mission to like I Got to feel better here like I got gotta get out of this depression and the sadness, so I better do everything I can do. And now I'm like, oh, I'm not really that sad anymore. I'm not sad anymore, but I think I should still keep doing these things, you know? And so that I think is important to have that kind of practice.

And I really have come to love it. That's beautiful. I love it. All right, question four and five. Question number four, how would you define your current purpose? That's very clear to me right now is like giving back being of service. Like I feel really called to like help others in lots of ways. Like I'm I'm starting this volunteer program at CHLA, which I feel really

called to I'm looking at doing some stuff with animals, and I do a lot of mentoring for other entrepreneurs. You know, in some things, there's like, you know, money involved, and I'm speaking at things, and I think that that's okay and good. And then there's some things I'm just donating my time, but it's all in like in the name of service. It's beautiful for sure right now.

I love that. All right, fifth and final question, which we ask to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Oh, to be kind. We're just so divided because of, you know, it's like, I mean, I think it's deeper than that, but it's like this notion of like, you know, even I said I read some of the other day that was like anger is just grief.

We had to, like, it was just like innate in us to be kind to other people like you imagine. Totally. What kind of world it would be so much better? Well said. Everyone the book is called The Messy Truth. How I sold my business for millions, but almost lost myself by New York Times best selling with the alley web. You can grab the book right now. It's our right now. I sold my business for millions, but almost lost myself by New York Times best selling author, Ali Webb. You can grab the book right now.

It's our right now. Share it, make it your next book club pick, discuss it, dissect it. I mean, if you want to have a real entrepreneurial story and journey in your hand, this is the one to have. Ali, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This is amazing. Genuinely being so open and honest and courageous in your own life and here and I look forward to continuing our new relationship. May be. Very grateful for it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

If you love this episode you will also love my interview with Charles DuHig on how to hack your brain, change any habit effortlessly and the secret to making better decisions. Look, am I hesitating on this because I'm scared of making the choice because I'm scared of doing the work? Or am I sitting with this because it just doesn't feel right yet? The street still a podcast is back. We are combining hip-hop lyrics and quotes from some of the greatest to ever-grace a microphone. It's a line for Lauren Hill and she says,

don't be a hard rock when you really are a gem. Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time. Seneca, right? And he says, your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought. For the human spirit is colored by such impression. Listen to season two of the Street Stoke podcast on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast

or wherever you get your podcasts.