On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Emma Grede ON: The Formula to Building a Billion Dollar Empire & How Identifying Your Fears Will Help You Achieve Your Dreams

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Do you want to know the formula to building a billion- dollar empire?  Do you want to identify your fears in order to reach your dreams?  Is work-life balance actually a myth?  If you're in search of building a career of your own and be as successful as your potential allows you to become, the insights in this conversation will help you achieve your goals.  Our guest today, Emma Grede, has founded and is at the helm of multiple global businesses including Good American, Safely and SKIMS. Emma candidly opens up about the secrets of finding motivation in the most unlikely places and we get to learn that the job we're struggling in today might just be the stepping stone to a remarkable career shift tomorrow. Fear is not the enemy – it's our gateway to personal growth and altering the trajectory of our careers.  In this interview, you'll learn: How to find the motivation to change your life How to turn struggle into an opportunity How to be overcome societal expectations of women How to find success in your passion How to restart your career Tips on effective decision-making Experiences are more than just wisdom; it's an invitation to embrace your potential, overcome obstacles, and live life authentically. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 06:10 The Ambition Mindset  08:58 Overnight Success Is An ILLUSION  15:08 Every Job Will Teach You An Important Lesson  17:44 How Fear Can Help You Grow  22:21 Every Relationship Has Chapters  26:36 The Tradeoffs Mothers Make Daily  30:24 CHALLENGE The Expectations Set For Women  32:03 Take Time To Reflect On What Matters To You  36:23 What Makes A Successful Relationship?  41:09 Practice Who You Want To Become Everyday  43:31 Misconceptions About Working Women  49:48 What’s Your Intention When Going to Work? 51:35 Don’t Be Afraid To Take Chances  01:01:08 How To Come Up With A Good Business Idea 01:04:41 How A Successful Businesswoman Thinks  01:12:24 The Most Stressful Part Of Building A Business  01:15:03 Responsibilities That Come With Success  01:22:37 Emma Grede On Final Five Episode Resources: Emma Grede | Instagram Emma Grede | Facebook Good American Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, Jennifer Lopez here with the new season of My Overcomefer Podcast. What's overcomefer all about? It's about inspiring confidence in all of us and choosing calling over comfort. Every Tuesday I'll be having real and honest conversations. You'll hear it from me first before any cheeseman hits your social media feed. Join me as I create a space where opening up is not only okay, it's encouraged. Listen to Overcomefer Podcast with Jennifer Lopez on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

The therapy for Black Girls Podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the therapy for Black

Girls podcast on the iHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. This episode is brought to you by Masterclass. And I've got some exciting news. This month, my Masterclass on Navigating Change is live on the Masterclass platform. Go to masterclass.com forward slash Navigate Change to tune in now. When you are chasing a dream, you're going to be happy about a third of the time. I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded. We don't talk about that. I felt like it was the end of like my company and my career, but it wasn't. It was just a failure.

One of America's richest self-made women. Fashion and business powerhouse. Emma Greene. I spent such a huge part of my life being so crippled by fear for so long that held me back. It was rough. Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support.

It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me. The best selling author in the post. The number one health and wellness podcast. The purpose of Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose. The number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier and more healed. You know that my goal is to introduce you to incredible thinkers, thought leaders, people who are making an impact and a difference in the world, rule-breakers, people who are changing the way we think, lead and live. And today's guest is someone I've wanted on for a long, long time. So I'm very excited that I finally have her sitting opposite me.

I'm talking about the one and only Emma Greed CEO and co-founder of Good American, the first fully inclusive fashion brand that celebrates all dimensions of female power. In October 2016, Emma launched Good American alongside Chloe Kardashian. What started as the largest denim launch in history, Good American is now an iconic, inclusive fashion line of denim, ready to wear swim, shoes, and active wear. Emma is also a founding partner and chief product officer of Schims, as solutions are

in to brand creating the next generation of underwear, loungewear, and shapewear. You already knew that. And co-founder of Safely, an accessible premium home care brand, dedicated to creating high quality plant-based, cleaning products. Emma has now recognized as one of America's richest self-made women by Forbes,

and serves as chairwoman of the 15% pledge, and also as a board member of Baby to Baby. And for me, beyond all of this, I'm just happy to be sitting with a fellow Brit in LA. And just so grateful Emma, because I've been watching you, I've been following you, your energy, whether it's a picture or a video is so magnetic and so real. And now I meet you in person. I'm like, it's amazing. So thank you, thank you for being here. Honestly, I could not be more happy to be here. A, definitely because you're a fellow Brit, but I have been listening and watching and reading you

for so long, this is like the thing that I've been most excited about for the longest time. So thank you for having me today. Oh, you're the sweetest. Very happy. It's a big like tick for me. I'm like, yes, let's do it. Oh, you're the sweetest.

And I want you to know literally my whole team was so excited you were coming today. Everyone has such major fans there. I can't even imagine that. Even when you say, I'm like, really? It's true. I don't know. I want to go back to, I remember that you and Chloe were doing a live years ago.

Yes. And I literally just came on because I saw you both live and I'd came on and I was just saying, hey guys, you know, like just being friendly. And we were like, you both shifted the entire, I just want everyone to understand this. They're on a live talking about their incredible brand that is like crushing it and little me comes on. We're like, Jay, we love it.

And it was the sweetest thing like and I was like, how did I felt terrible? So I logged off because I felt like, no, no, we went out way to see God. It was so sweet, and I was just like, how conscious and kind and thoughtful. Anyway, I want to dive straight into your incredible journey. That's why we're here today to understand you, the human behind this incredible journey and incredible story. And I want to start off with, what is your earliest childhood

memory that you think is indicative and defines who you are today? That is such a brilliant question. This is what you do, right? You ask the best questions. I'm so glad you're in this zone. Why did you start a good American? You know, it's so interesting.

I come from East London. And you know, East London is like, you know, it's like coming from like long beach Inglewood or Brooklyn. You know what I mean? It's like, it's the street. It's the part of London that when, you know, if you go back 30 years ago when I was a kid, it's just not the place where you would happily hang out.

I had a fantastic upbringing there, you know, and I think it's very defining. East London has been very defining of me, my personality. You were really raised to, you know, and I think it's very defining. East London has been very defining of me, my personality. You were really raised to, you know, in a community to have huge respect for the people around you, huge trust, actually, for the people around you, but it was pretty devoid of any aspiration and certainly any glamour. And I was one of those kids that just kind of grew up like always kind of looking at what could be next and what was in my future. And I was one of those kids that just kind of grew up, like always kind of looking at what could be next and what was in my future.

And I just fell into this like fashion magazine land, you know, it's like I would do my paper out. I'd get the money from that. I'd spend it on an issue of like, boge or L or Mary Claire. And it was that great moment, sort of late 80s, early 90s in England where we had, you know, so many incredible movements, you know, Brit-Prot, Brit-R, but all of those supermodels, you know, it's like Naomi and Kate Mass, and I've saw that as a means of escapism. I never thought about it as a potential for a job,

but I was like, let me just lift out of where I am and aspire to something that was beautiful, an aspirational, because I couldn't see that anywhere around me. And so, when I think about my childhood, I think partially about this piece of East London, where there's an honesty and an authenticity, and a level of just being the person that you say you are, like living by a certain set of values. And then this other part that was like,

get me out of there. Do you know what I mean? And that's the honesty of it, really. Yeah. And how do, where do you think that comes from? I think some people are like, you know, we've become products of our environment. And so if some people are inner-grouper people or in an area that is unambitious or not striving, it's easy to fold into that. Yes. Where did that come for you personally? Like, was it someone in your life? Was it something you read? Was it the magazines?

Like, where did that belief come that? There could be more. There may be more. There is another place to go to. You know, I think that it must have come from my mom in some ways because I honestly, I don't know anyone that owned their own business. Everywhere I come from,

everyone worked a job and you work for somebody else. And jobs were seen as exactly that. There was no career, there was no vocation, there was no purposeful doing of what you do. It's like you went to work, you probably found it miserable and you try to get out of there as quickly as you could. And for me, I really thought that there has to be a better way to live. I was like, shouldn't there be some excitement and enjoyment, but I don't know where I got it from. The sense of value and the sense of ambition has always been in me.

And people always say to me, you know, like, how did you get to where you are? And I go, well, it's much more simple than people think, you know, it's like, I really value myself and I really value my goals. And I don't think it's like I really value myself and I really value my goals. And I don't think it's much more complicated than that. But I was taught that by my mom who was very, very much like, listen Emma, you're not

better than anybody else, but nor is anyone better than you. And so when people talk about imposter syndrome, like I look around, I'm like, that's just made up. Like, we all feel exactly the same, like deep, deep down. And that sense of me feeling like I could achieve was just built in. Like, I've never felt a lack of confidence. I've never felt less than. I always felt like if I worked hard enough and I really put everything into it that I could achieve, I still feel like that today.

I don't expect things to be easy, but I've never had a sense of I couldn't. Yeah, what a great way for your mom to set you up. Like what an amazing recipe. Yeah, I guess so. But it's beautiful to hear that because I love that perspective of no one's better than you and you're not better than anyone.

Like that's such a great equalizer. Absolutely, and the two things are really important, right? Because I grew up with such a respect for everybody else around me, regardless of like where they come from or, you know, what they were doing. And I think that, you know, as a kid, I was surrounded by a lot of people that were doing what they had to do to get through the day. And I never looked down on anyone. I always thought, well, you know what, as long as you are doing something, you find an interest in something. And for me, that came at a very early age in fashion. But it was much more a means of escapism than me sitting there, and like really appreciating the clothing or

the craft. It was like, it was a means to dream. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And tell me about you touched on it there, but I want to talk about your first job. And I like doing this with people because what's really interesting to me is people forget, especially when someone's at the peaks of their careers and achieving incredible things. Like when people ask you the question of like, how did you get to where you are? It almost takes away from the fact that there was a first job that wasn't this. But especially now, right? Because we have this idea through social media that everything happens overnight.

And I think, you know, it's like, I've been grafting away since I was 12 years old and like, boom, I get some success at 40 and people think you're an overnight success. I have worked every job imaginable. I had a paper round when I was 12 until I was 15. I worked in a delicatessen. I worked in clothes shops. I served in restaurants. It's like, I've done every job in fashion that you could do at the lowest possible level imaginable while not being paid, right?

It's like I've done all of it, but actually for me, you know, when you talk about people and your point of view on life, like I am a naturally positive distribution, a disposition, I always am a person that thinks about the glass being half full. And so even when I worked in that deli and I was making a sandwich, I was gonna make you the best turkey sandwich you've ever had in your life. And I would wait and look at you and be like, how good is that sandwich? Is that an amazing sandwich?

I chose the best light amount of turkey with the right amount of the pickle and I'd make it look nice and I'd cut it beautifully on the plate. And do you know what I mean? So for me, I can take pride in anything and I also take a huge amount of learnings from everything. So for me, it's like, I used to think,

well, one day, this will be useful to me. Like, one day, learning how to make a perfect cappuccino or making a customer happy or discussing how things work in a shop or a delicacy will be useful to me. And I actually think about all of those experiences as being very formative. And I enjoyed all of them.

You know, it's like I've just, I've really worked. And I think everybody talks so much about hard work, but they don't really talk about like, unenjoyable work. I had a lot of unenjoyable jobs that I just had to get through, but I never ever let it put me off. I always saw them as a means to the end, you know? And so I think when we talk about that now, like, what is hard work actually means? It means getting up and thinking about the end goal when you're nowhere even close

to it, right? But you can see a pathway. And for me, it was always about that. I could always see very clearly that I'm gonna do that, to get to that, to get to that. And I've been quite planned, I feel in so many ways in my life. Yeah, and I'm so glad you raised that point because I feel the same way that you don't have to love a job to learn from it.

No. And I think we all are thinking, well, I hate my job. I dislike it. It's the worst. It's are thinking, well, I hate my job. I dislike it. It's the worst. It's a waste of time. I'm in the wrong place. But actually, if you just shift that to be like, what can I learn? What experience do I not have? How can I interact? How do I not want to behave? Like this boss drives me crazy. I'll never be this boss. I remember I had a boss like that. And I used to literally write down them back of my book, like, you should never ever speak to people like that.

Or call someone out in that way. And I think that's been so formative of what type of leader I want to be. But the two things for me haven't been mutually exclusive, right? I think that you can, two things can be true at the one time. You can be unashamedly ambitious and focused on what it is that you need, while also being an inspiring and empathic leader who lifts other people up. And so I've been thinking about those type of things since I've been a boss, you know, for the last 15 years, as a direct reflection of what I didn't

experience when I was an employee. And so I actually think, God, all of those experiences were really good for me, because now I know what I don't want to do. Yeah, absolutely. I did a paper entry by the way. Did it do? Yeah, that was my first ever job. That was heavy work. It was, it was heavy work.

But that's where I feel like I got my appreciation for the mornings. I'm such an early bird. And I remember doing those paper hands in the dark in England. And it was kind of amazing, because you'd like, most houses were quiet, quiet. And then you'd see this one house

where there's a little glimmer happening. And and I thought I learned the power of the mornings from that particular job. Like getting out, getting a head start, I'd go home, I'd put on my school uniform before any of my sisters, I'd be sitting there with a cup of tea, while they were all like scrambling around and I was like, this early morning stuff, there's something to it, you know. That's interesting, so I used to do mine in the evening. Oh did you? Because I didn't have to do it in the morning. So I do it after school. Wow. What about your people getting the papers? What happened to them? I don't know. That's just what happened. That's why I was joined. That's what I was going to do.

I don't be anyone read the paper. That's amazing. But I would like, I'd walk around with my headphones on. I'd be listening to the Eminem. And I'd have like, I know that. I know that paper out. Yeah, I have this like really weird looking like trolley that I've come around and they're like, take the papers into a bag, that bag stunts my growth. You are bringing me back, I believe that too. I'm like a lopsided shoulder because of that bag. It was so bad, but yeah, I learned the same thing

like for me, so all the kids in my area, what they used to do, the other kids who did the paper out, they used to throw the papers off the edge of the train track or like in a bush or whatever it was. So then the guy who ran whatever company was that did the paper routes, he said to me, go, J, you're the only reliable person I have. So I'm going to give you all their streets.

I love it. You're like that, Quentin. Yeah, exactly. You're hired, making money. Yeah, it was amazing. And it's, I love that you said that you learned. And I love the passion. I wish you were at my local Delhi, like. And I loved that you said that, that you learned. And I loved the passion. I wish you were at my local deli.

Like, and you know that stuff still happens today. I interviewed last year, I was doing a show for YouTube, and I interviewed this tick tocker called Markelle Washington. Oh, right. And if anyone doesn't know who he is, he's awesome, like great energy, super talented, young guy. And he was, I think he worked in a subway. And he used to dance and sing while he served.

And not only did he used to upload that to TikTok, he got found that way. And now he's got this incredible career. So amazing. And I love that energy of like back then when you were doing it, and it took you maybe a lot longer to find that success. He was doing it more recently. He found it, but it's interesting to see that it's the same sort of,

what was the hardest job that you did, the most unenjoyable, the most uncomfortable where you actually looked at him when, maybe this not worth it, like what was the one that pushed you to the edge? Well, you know, it's so interesting. It was probably the job that I did before starting my first company, because

such a part of that, I worked in a fashion show production company, which if you imagine that, I want to be in fashion, you think, yes, the reality of that is that you're building stages, you're working on this like concept of like, you know, whatever you're producing for three months, the show goes up and down in 10 minutes, everybody goes off to the after party and you're doing D-Rig and you're like, oh, this is the worst job ever. And so I transitioned into this role of like sponsorship, which was so formative for my, for the first business that I ever started, because it was all about brand partnerships and marketing and collaboration. But my role at that point when you know nobody was just cold calling, right? So I would just have to like

hit the phones and the rejection and you know, you can't help but take that person. You're like, I haven't made one connection today and that I found so disheartening. But you know, I even knew then I was like, this will be worth something because for every like little knockback you got, you know, every kind of three days, you'd get one glimmer of hope

and you'd take one meeting and out of those ten meetings, maybe you'd start one deal. And actually it was very, it was just like very telling about yourself, like, what are you good at? And now I think, you know, as I think about entrepreneurship and because I meet so many founders, that skill of sales and storytelling, if you haven't got that, like, you can't do this job, right? You can't, you can't do this job. You can't sell to investors, you can't craft a story to customers, and you certainly can't get into the heart of what makes a brand successful, unless you can sell on story-tail. Again, it's just one of those things that I had to go through, but it was miserable. I didn't realise how many different similarities we have

in our background. Oh, really? So I worked at the business design center for a bit and I did internships then. Yeah. I worked there over the summer and stuff. And all I had to do was sit there and call to sell the stands. Oh my God. Because you know that have all the different stands for like the bike show or the, they'd

be facelift. It's formative. Yeah. It really is. And I remember the cold coolant and I look back at then. I remember before then I was so, I was quite introvert, I was quite shy. And and then all of a sudden when you're doing like 300 cold cold cold cold days a day. It's gone. It goes away. It's gone. It's amazing how so much can be like removed from not your personality,

but this kind of fear and insecurities that we often have as a kid. A hundred percent. And I feel like even now, you know, when I think about fear and what that's meant in my career so much, because it's actually been helpful in so many ways. Like, I always think about myself now and I'm like, you know, it's like, if I am not a little bit scared about what I'm doing, like even coming here today, right? It's like, then I'm not growing, like I'm not moving forward.

I'm not going in the right direction. And so now I find myself looking for the fear. I'm like, what can I do that's gonna scare me? Because I know how to make jeans. I can make you fantastic knickers all day long. But actually like branching out and trying to do something else is the stuff that keeps us as humans growing. And I think about that all the time

because I spent such a huge part of my life being so crippled by fear and failing. And I was a school, I dropped out of school when I was 15 or 16, I can't actually remember. And it must have been 15. But that always left me with this kind of inferiority complex that I wasn't educated in. I'd work in London around all of these like very ho, toity-oneful people that were fresh out of Cambridge and Oxford

and had these wonderful educations. And I always felt a bit inferior for that. I was like, I'm going to get, cool, they're going to find out that I don't have that educational background. I don't speak in the right way. And I feel like for so long that held me back. Until I realized, no, no, no, that's my fuel. That's what makes me me. And if I'm not a little bit scared, now I find myself just actually looking for it. Because I know I need that fire in my belly like the whole time. Did you ever feel that anyone ever made you feel inferior because of a lack of the formal education? I'm sure they did, but it was much stronger than internal voice, right?

It's like, I don't think anybody, you know what it's like. When you're in London, there is such a class system, right? And people know immediately, in this country, they think you and I sound like the queen, and we know in reality, we know, babe. And in London, any English people listening to that us absolutely know that. And so there is always that you open your mouth

and immediately you're judging, you know exactly where I'm from, and you can attribute a set of absolutely know that. And so there is always that you open your mouth and immediately you're judging, you know exactly where I'm from and you can attribute a set of circumstances to that. But I think it was much more about the voice in my own head. And I think about that an awful lot now in the way that I've set up my life and my businesses and, you know, I believe very much in this idea like this rule of thirds, right? I think about it constantly, you know, when you are doing something very difficult or you are chasing a dream, you're going to be happy about a third at the time, you're going to feel okay about a third at the time.

And the other third at the time, you're going to feel pretty crappy. You are going to feel bad. And if the ratios get out of whack and things are not actually you're too happy You're probably not pushing yourself hard in it enough and if you know you're actually spending too much time You're probably not you know you're not thinking about it right But I do think that that lean in that I've had my whole life like the idea that I shouldn't be comfortable and happy All of the time actually really helps me so much and I think about that idea of the third and happy all of the time. Actually really helps me so much. And I think about that idea of the third and the third and the third,

and it doesn't scare me anymore. I'm like, oh, I'm just having one of the days that is my crappy date, that's okay. Because what I'm doing isn't straightforward, it isn't what everybody's doing, and it's supposed to be difficult, it's supposed to be heavy, it's supposed to not be comfortable all the time.

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Yeah, that's such a unique way of thinking about it. So you said the thirds are okay. Yeah. Happy and then terrible. And then terrible. Yeah, and I thought it's so spawn and I've never heard someone break it down like that simply. Yeah. Well, I am a very simple girl. You know, that's it. I have to break it down like that simply. Yeah, well I am a very simple girl, you know, that's it.

I have to break it down like that for myself. But you know, it's really helpful because I think in any part of your life, like there is, especially now because I work with so many people, there is this idea. And also, you know, I'm a mum of four, right? So there is this part of me that's like, I just want my kids to be all right and to be happy all the time. I'm like, actually, no, because it's in those moments and you know this more than anyone

of challenge or difficulty. That's when you grow the most, but we shouldn't rather than like trying to remove that from my children or take those times away from my employees, or think that's not okay. It's like, no, no, no, guys, like, that's what it's about. And if you're coasting through life and doing something not really simplistic fine, you might just feel all right all the time. But I am so happy when the good is good that I'll take the okay and the bad, you know, it's worth it because it actually all comes out even in the end.

Sure. When you were chasing the dreams back in the day or like trying to build it up, were you dating? Did you care about that? Was that like, because now I'm just a beautiful family. Now you have some beautiful family. You have a wonderful partner. You have four kids, as you said.

But I wondered then, I feel like a lot of us spend a lot of our teens and our 20s thinking about love. Totally. Was that how you were too? 100%. I don't think I've ever been without a boyfriend. I'm a person that needs a someone. And I went around a little bit.

And I was very happy to settle down at 25, 26. And I feel like I missed out. Because we started so early. I feel like I was out in the clubs when I was 13, 14. And then I had this stint in a beach cell when I was asked to leave school. So it's like, I've had a lot of living before I got there. And I think that I've always a lot of living before I got there. And I think

that I've always been someone that has chased love. Like, I love that feeling, but as you get older, you realize, you know, what that really means. Like today, it's like, I want to be loved back, but it's not all about that rush. You know, it's like, I've been with my husband now for 15 years married for 11 and The things that I value have completely shifted right it's like and we've been on a journey together and I think that in life you need chapters and just as the same, you know like in career and you need You know needing transitions and to transform relationships need chapters like that too. The first five years, we traveled the world, we partied, we got drunk, we did all the things that you do,

and then we went through a period of having children, and that's extremely challenging on any relationship, especially while the two of you are enormously ambitious. And I think that what I have with my husband is this extremely unique partnership where he always understood that I was ambitious and I needed to do things and he's completely supported that. And I think that the love that I have for him has grown exponentially because I've still

been able to chase all of my dreams outside of the relationship and the family structure while having someone really support me do that. We won't go down the astint and the beef. No, it's really fun. We're going to a calling part. Go ahead and tell me. No, I just feel lucky. You know, it's like you have, there's a part of my life where I think there was a need to escape, you know? And I found that I was a real club kid. That's what I enjoyed. I wanted to go out. For me, it was actually never about getting smashed, but it was like the music and those super late nights and the whole community of it. Like I was friends with the DJs and the MCs and you know, like I was on the list.

And like I did that whole thing. I think that was a huge formative part of my childhood. Like I would not or not my childhood, my kind of late teens early 20s, like I needed to go and get like remove myself from from what my kind of everyday life and my upbringing was and it kind of introduced me to a lot of alternative things and people and ways of being and you know it's like you go to IB for you you learn yoga for the first time I was like well what's this nobody I knew in plaster was doing yoga I didn't know anyone in IB for was doing yoga no for the island but you know it was like there's just these things that I think that part of my life really opened me up to and I felt like in

some ways even though I saw a lot as a kid and I was experienced to some pretty kind of gruesome things, there was a whole part of life and sort of a way of living and as kind of level of peace and understanding of people that was not ever explained to me and was not part of my childhood and my upbringing and I learned that much later. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. It's so interesting again, we often feel like the next chapter will be better. And you just broke it down and said, well, no, actually, there's going to be every chapter

and every chapter has its reason in it. Absolutely. Has its story. And you just said, I loved that I lived life that way. And then when I met my partner, I knew it was going to work. And even that's had so many chapters inside of it. Absolutely. What would you, how would your mum describe what she saw as a little girl

to who she sees now? I think she'd say same, same. I was always a pain for everyone around me. You know, I literally, I was that kid. I actually didn me, you know. I literally, I was that kid. I actually didn't, you know, I didn't have many, I wasn't that the popular kid, you know. My sisters were all massive athletes, hugely popular. I was a bit more of a loner. I had like, you know, two or three really solid friends. Sounds exactly like today, actually. But, you know, it was like, I was that kid. I was like in my own head. I've always been a dreamer. But But you know, it was like I was that kid I was like in my own head.

I've always been a dreamer, but you know, my mum would always say she was like you're a dreamer but you're a doer. And I always had those two things. I don't think I've changed that much. You know, I think about myself, I've been absolutely same since I was seven years old. This is how I've always felt. That's how I've always been. That's epic. That's so cool. I wonder how you see that with now being a mum too. Like now when you're looking at your kids, you know, it's wild because I think like so many moms, especially mothers that work in the same way that I do, right? You're kind of plagued by this idea of what you're supposed to be and do as a mother.

And because I grew up with a mum that left the house every day that went to work, I have maybe a different idea of what I'm supposed to be providing for those kids. I think it's really important that my children see me living out my dreams and hopefully they'll do the same for themselves. But you know, everybody, the question always kind of boils down to like, how do you do it all? And I really think it's important to dispel that myth of doing it all,

because women have been really sold a crock of crap. Like it's like, you can't have it all all the time. And my life is a series of trade-offs, right? That's just a fact. I'm not the mom who is at the school gate. I'm not there for pickup and drop off. I'm not at the school gala. Hopefully my kids get something else from me,

which is a sense of actually living out your dreams and what you're supposed to do. And I think that they will see that and really appreciate having that from me. I think it's very important that we stop talking about this idea of balance, because there is no balance in my life. Like it's rubbish, you know, it's like, I have to go wherever the energy is that morning and my children have to fit around that.

Nothing's changed. Like I said, I'm still the same person and four children. Yes, it changes the kind of routine of your day, but it doesn't change who you are fundamentally. And I am one of those people that think, my children have to fit around me. And that's just a fact. It is what it is.

Yeah, and I'll say as a kid who grew up with a mum who is working that hard and like had her. So my mum trained to be a financial advisor so that she could be self-employed as we called it. She was an entrepreneur, but the language was there. She could manage her own time. Yeah, so she could manage her own time. So she could be there for us.

So my mum would make us breakfast, drop us to school, pack lunch. So amazing. And then she'd go to work, pick us up, feed us, and then go back out to work. And sometimes I'd join her, I'd go out with her in the car, I'd sit with her. My son's in my office tonight.

When she was a client, and then, she'd be like, I know, I know, I should have. I should have. And it's just, I saw my mom be so active. My mom was never, she wasn't around, like, just hanging around the house. She wasn't available in that way.

Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying, my mom wasn't. And there's someone who grew up with a mom like that, like, not only do I love and respect my mom insanely. Insane. I also just saw that you could still feel loved without having loads of time. 100%.

And I- It's about quality, right? I always think about that. My kids need me, like, in a 100% capacity, like not half looking at my phone, not half doing work, not surrounded by lots of people in the house. And I really try to think about them as individuals because I have a boy and a girl and then boy girl twins. And I like to do things with my kids individually

so that I can really understand who they are and what their needs are, not like this sort of, like pack, you know, because it's a very big thing. Just one big thing. It comes that I'm like, ah, like all of you in the car. But I think that, you know, again, when you grow up in a big family, you have ideas and experiences of how it wasn't so great, and what you'd want to do differently. And so I try to apply that. But I think for most women, it's really important to just level, like lower the expectations a little bit

and be honest with ourselves about what we're capable of because it's really something that I think there's so much being thrown at women all the time about what you should do and how you should advocate for yourself and you know and and it quite frankly is just too much. It is not feasible, it is not something that we can all cope with and I think that you do what you do to get through the day and we should all just like lower the expectation levels a little bit. That isn't to say lower your ambition level but but that's just to say, don't feel bad about what you're doing. At the end of it, it's like we all do as much as we can,

and our kids will all be all right. They don't need us to usher them through every experience in the day. And they'll be who they are. They'll be who they are. How did you make peace with that? Because I feel like I love that perspective, and I'm sure it's going to help so many people, but I think people struggle with this. We love being the controller, that because I feel like I love that perspective and I'm sure it's going to help so many people,

but I think people struggle with this. We love being the controller, we love making sure everything's right. We also so hard on ourselves as we were just saying because people were hard on us, and now we think we need to be super mom and maybe our mom did it or maybe our auntie did it, whatever. I think there's a lot of people who are just like, I get that, but I don't know how to make peace with that. 100%. You know, it's a great of people who are just like, I get that, but I don't know how to make peace with that. 100%. You know, it's a great question. And I always think about, I'm somebody that's absolutely like fixated and fascinated by memories.

I always like go back and I think about like the big important things in my life. What did I really enjoy from last year? What were the moments that like, a year in my memory? And when you do that, it very rarely has anything to do with any level of perfection. The best moments are the sporadic moments that were unplanned. When you're sitting there, the kids are a mess.

You're in the garden. Something happened that just made it so. And it's never the moments that you kind of forced. It's never the things that you planned. It's never the ones that you spent all your energy on. And so I think that it just becomes about like this great, like you've got to weigh it up, right? You've got to weigh up like what is worth it? And what where do you derive enjoyment from? And I think anyone who looks at their life will actually find that it's in the small stuff. It's in those moments that you just let it all go. And so I think it's really,

it's such a good exercise, especially for women and moms to just kind of backtrack and say, in the last 12 months, what were the single best moments that you had? And then you will absolutely not stress about whatever it is that is weighing you down today, because it's never what you think. It never has been for me. Yeah, and don't judge the moment, right? Like we can, we're so quick to be like, oh, I just, I said the wrong thing. Totally. And all of a sudden I said the wrong thing becomes, I messed up today. I shouldn't be here. I don't belong. I'm not supposed to be part of it. And it's so interesting. I remember like, there's this brilliant story about when Oprah was going through this like crazy, crazy time in her life. And she turns up at Quincy Jones's house for business at for dinner. And she said to him,

oh my god, like it's so terrible. It's so awful. Have you seen the press and did I done? And he's like, what are you talking about? He hasn't seen anything, right? Because at the end of the day, no one's watching you. No one's watching you like you're watching you. Most of your mistakes is in private. And so I often think about that because it's like everybody's so bothered about their own stuff and what's going on in their head, they're not thinking about you. And so sometimes you just have to release a little bit. And I always try to think about like what is real and what is ego, you know, and so much of it is ego. So, especially around the mum part, funnily enough, right, because we're all trying to do and be better than what

we had and change things for our children and be this impossible, wonderful, perfect mother. And that's nothing to do with your kids, because what your kids want is just a bit of you in the most simple way. They don't care about any of that stuff. And so, again, it really is that challenge of really sitting down and speaking to your children and thinking to yourself like what actually matters. And I think it's like those small moments. Yeah, that's well said. And as I said, as someone who received a lot of that from my mum, I felt like I never doubted whether my mum loved me or not, whether she could come to my rugby game or not, or whether she could come and watch me at the class rehearsals or dramas, or whatever we were doing.

If she was there or she wasn't there, that wasn't how I felt. Love to me. You knew she loved you, absolutely. Yeah, because it was such a core part of my life. I feel today I have like so much love to give because of how much my mom loved me. 100%.

And it's not that she was there every moment. 100%. So yeah, and the flip side, I'm sure there's people who would think, my parents were around all the time and I didn't necessarily feel connected. And you didn't necessarily connect? Exactly. That is so right. Yeah, you've talked about this before and I really like it.

This whole idea of like, you can't have it all and everyone's always talking about balance and I agree with you. I don't think balance exists either, even in my life because I often get that, oh, J, mindfulness and meditation. I'm like, but that's not balanced. You're actually constantly using these tools and techniques to be back at a point of... Zero. ...economity.

Exactly. ...to be back at a point of equity, but there isn't this idealized balance. No. ...when it comes to you and your partner, you both have great careers, you do some things together, lots of things individually. Absolutely. How does that, like, I guess my question there is, what is the one thing you both need from each other

that allows you to stay connected whilst having collective empires, individual empires, and then a beautiful family as well on top of all of that? I honestly think that just comes down to love because it's different things in different moments and if you really, really love someone, then you do what they need in that moment, whether or not it's good for you right there

and on what you might have discussed, right, that comes down to, do I really love this person and want the best for them in this thing, this moment, this decision? And more than anything, you know, I have such an admiration for my husband in so many different ways, in how he thinks and how he approaches things and what type of father he is. And, you know,

love does lots of different things, but, you know, usually it grows or it dwindles, right? It's like in relationships. And I think that mine is still growing, but it just comes down to the fact that I love him. It isn't any more complicated than that. We have lots of things that we do together, and I do think there is a huge thing of this idea of chapters and having projects together. To some extent, children at that,

because you go through this trying to get pregnant and then being pregnant and then having the baby in those early days and then those stories about those early days and then buying houses together and doing those houses up and so there is this element and with us we've also had the businesses that to some degree and in some businesses we've done those things together and so they have been these chapters and these projects that have been extremely, I'd say pivotal in our life. And you often see that when, you know, couples have kids that fly the nest, it's like suddenly they don't have a project anymore. It's like everything's

done. And they're like, okay, we don't have anything. So we have that together. But I feel like in my life, I'm extremely ritualistic. You know, that's just how I am. And there's parts of our relationship that have taken on some of those rituals in terms of, you know, how we think about time just us and not with the children, how we think about setting up our mornings. And those things become sort of bedrocks and foundations that for what I think is like a healthy relationship. Yeah, well, I really gained from what you're saying right now, and I hope everyone's listening and taking notes too, because there's so many great, great insights that are like,

you're just sprinkling them everywhere. And they're everywhere. Trying to catch you. And there's, I love the idea that if you value a relationship in your life, your relationship's only as good as the stories you've lived together and the memories you've made, and if you stop making stories and memories with people, then you're constantly living in the past.

Exactly. Which is so unhealthy. Yeah. And you've seen that in so many friendships, right? When you're no longer creating together, you have nothing but your old memories. And after a while, that just dwindles. So you need to consistently create. And that can be big things, all small things.

It can be building a shed in your back garden, but something that you live out together and you see to fruition and you create and you make. And I think that that's a really important part of relationships. Yeah, and to keep doing that and keep getting something together about something. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, rather than just like, how's your day and then you took your own world and then their world? And all of that separation, you know, and that's how so many couples I think where it goes wrong, you're kind of living out the most exciting parts of your life entirely separately. And I feel with us, you know, it's like we just bought a cold plunge. And like the cold plunge has become the thing, right? We're literally just like, how many minutes are you going to do?

How many minutes are you going to do? Oh my God, are you going to put your head under? Like, you know, but it becomes this thing that you're living out together and now will be like Colplunch bullies to all of our friends. Yeah. Even something so small like that can be so like magical for a relationship because you're learning and pushing and doing something together. Yeah, we do the same. But my wife, so Elijah, but she's so good in the car. No, we do. Yeah, we do. But my wife. So L.A.J. My wife or wife, she's so good in the car. No, she's not.

She's so good. I'm so jealous. And so I can't even try to be her good. Well, I married a Swedish man. Oh, good. So I do like I'm at a distant vantage, like from the outside. Yeah. Like you were basically born in the ice.

Like, come on. Like of course you're better at this than I am. That's amazing. And then we've been playing pickleball as well. That's our other thing. Oh, pickleball. Have you played that? I have a pickleball call, but I don't think I'm gonna.

I'm gonna be on it any time soon. Well, it's so fun. You got to come over and you can show us how it's done. It's so much fun. And again, it's just taking on a new project. Totally. Whatever it may be. I love that you were saying that you love memories

and that you kind of almost have a memory bank. I was gonna ask you, do you think there's a memory in your life that you've kind of locked away or hidden away that you kind of like, it's almost like, have you seen that movie Inception? And it's that he locks it away in the basement and he never goes there because it kind of, it has, sometimes it can be good, bad,

it can be anything, but do you have a memory of locked away? I think I probably have a lot of memories that I've locked away. And it's really interesting. We should have maybe done this podcast like in a month. I'm going to go to the Hoffman Institute. I think I have an enormous amount of that in my life.

And I said to you earlier, I think about my life in terms of practice. I'm practicing every day, like who I want want to be. I think that that's a great way to teach my children because they do what they see. I never beat myself up about my past, who I've been, my background, where I came from, because I know that I'm constantly moving and evolving. I feel like if you're not working on yourself, then you're not really living. Do you know what I mean?

I feel like the purpose of my life is to explore how I can be the best version of me. And I don't just mean that in business. I mean in every single facet of my life, how can I be the best mom and the best wife and the best boss, like all of those things that mean a lot to me. But it takes work and it takes practice.

And I don't get it right every single day. And when I think to answer your question about memories and things I've locked away, it's when I've not been proud of my behaviour. But those are always things that I am willing to kind of hold my hands up to and work on. And I feel like I've done, especially now, I live here. You come and you do the work, right? It's like it's just the grown up thing to do. And I feel like that's been one of the reasons I've enjoyed being in LA so much is because I've had this whole,

obviously, all the success with the businesses. But on this other side, I've had this huge awakening in terms of who I am and who I'm supposed to be and how I'm evolving as a person. And so I really feel like those are things I'm still exploring and I will be until the day I die, you know. I'm always in learning mode. I love that. And you're invited back afterwards as well. So you don't have to worry about it. The cry, man. No, no, what I mean is, I hope this is not going to be the last time you come, but what's the memory that you'd love to relive

or you've re-visit often mentally and you close your eyes and you're like, yeah, I'm there, like I'd love to live that again because it was so. You know, it's so crazy. I think it's probably, I mean, feel so bad on my kids, but the birth of my first child. Like that was so insane and amazing. And it's really funny because women like often say

like, everything changed then, you know, it's like, and for me, everything changed in that moment. I remember having just had gray, and Yens was holding him on the side of the bed, and I thought, I have got to get out of this bed and go to the office. And that's all I could think of my head, because it was like all of a sudden I had the reason I was doing all of this stuff for,

and it never become more clear to me than in that moment. I was like, okay, like now real life starts. Wow. Yeah, that's really how I felt. I was like, oh, get me back into the office immediately. Oh my gosh. Forget the baby. Nothing about going home and snuggling with my child. I was like, I have a reason to do what I'm doing now.

And that can coexist with loving your kids to death, right? Because again, you can be so many different things. It's like, I am a super nurturing hands-on mom and I really enjoy motherhood. I just have other stuff that I like too. You know, why didn't we struggle to have those two ideas? Like we almost... Because society is setting up that you're one or the other, right?

You're even putting on your heels and like banging out the door and like don't see your kids and put them to bed. Or you're like, it's really sweet mom. It's like, no, I'm both. I'm actually everything. I am every woman. Like, it's just, like tough. It, do you know, it's like, I think they're actually what it is actually what it is that they're all of these misconceptions about what you are allowed to be.

And I don't think we put those same things on men, because men can be totally in the office and killing the deal, and they'll just be this incredible dad throwing a football on the weekend. It's like you're fully allowed, and it's fine, but for women it's not so fine. And so, you know, so much of what I do in my work and my businesses and actually just sort of trying to be honest about me and how I operate is to dispel a lot of those myths because I do think that we are not one dimensional and you can be so many different things and also so many different things to different people.

You know, I'm one person to my husband and one to my kids and if you were to come in my office, I think they give you a whole different version of me. I get all over it. Yeah. It's true that we all have to, there's all different facets to each part of ourselves and I want to. What is about the level of acceptance, right? Like, are you allowed to be that and is it accepted? And that's why, you know, Jate, so interesting, I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast

where a man has been asked about imposter syndrome, not once. It is a question that is the special reserves for women. As is the question of balance. No one says, hey, Yens, how you balancing it all, the brands and the business and the kids. No one says that to my husband. I'm grabbing an ass burger question, I'm just kidding. I'm saying it to me every day, every single day. Or is it like to be a black woman in business?

I'm like, what kind of question is that? You know, but there are things that for women just, we're still not able to get over this idea that we have in our heads, that we can't be many things to many people. And I just don't believe in that at all. Yeah, no, I'm with you, I'm with you. And I really feel that naturally,

all those questions are coming because that's what people are scared about and insecure about and worried about. And it's, as you said, it's come because it's been created in society. I read a, there was this research paper a long time ago and I won't get it absolutely accurate. But the point was that when men and women look

at a job application, if men can do some of it, they'll apply. And even if women can't do one part of it, they won't apply. I see that every single day in my own office, right? A guy will work for me for six months and come and ask me for a pay rise. And then I will say to a woman,

I don't think you've had a pay rise for like a year and a half, like you know. Do you know what I mean? It's like, or somebody that will come in and say like, I speak absolutely fluent Spanish and a woman who's pretty nice, you've sent there, won't even mention it. So there are those obvious things,

and that's just about, you know, so many times for women, there is this natural nurturers. We naturally play down our skills. And I think that that is just something that society has taught us. And so I think about it all the time, I'm quite the opposite, you know, I'll go in and pretend I can do anything in a pitch meeting or it's like, I'll say what needs to say to get it done.

Do you know what I mean? But I do think that for so many women there is this like sort of magical golden moment in your life where you're free of a lot of constraints. You know, maybe you don't have a mortgage, you don't have children yet, you're not in a really serious relationship where there is this moment to be incredibly selfish. And for most women, when all of the responsibilities pile on, they stop doing that. And I think that actually just as women, we would do better to be selfish for longer in our lives. And that's the type of thing. And so many people will be like, oh, I just don't like the word. I can't find another way to dress it up. Absolutely no, because I mean what I say.

You do have to think about yourself because nobody else is thinking about that for you. Everybody else is too busy thinking about this themselves. And so this idea of being selfish shouldn't feel like such a foreign thing for women or a dirty word for women. It's like you have to be. There is no other way to get ahead

and to do what you wanna do. You have to put your needs and your wants and your ambition first, because no one is gonna do that for you. Welcome to the Overcomfort Podcast with Jenna Calopes. Yup, that's me. You may know my late mom, Jenny Rivera, my queen. She's been my guiding light

as I bring you a new season of Over-Comfort podcast. This season, I'll continue to discover and encourage you and me to get out of our comfort zones and choose our calling. Join me as I dive into conversations that will inspire you, challenge you, and bring you healing. We're on this journey together.

I'm opening up about my life and telling my story in my own words. Yes, you'll hear it from me first before the Cheezman lands on your social media food. If you thought you knew everything, guess again. So I took another test with ancestry and it told me a lot about who I am and it led me to my biological father. And everyone here, my friends, laugh, but I'm Puerto Rican. Listen to the Overcome for Podcasts with Jenna Calopes as part of my Cuduran Podcast Network available on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast

or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident?

Or, can we create new senses for humans? Or, what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagelman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet.

Oprah, everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change.

Luminous Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys, and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours.

Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Yeah, and it's hard, isn't it? When, like you were saying, you've tried to be the boss that you didn't have. I can identify with that. I try and be to be the boss that you didn't have. I can identify with that. I try and be the boss that bosses that I didn't have. And I think it is really wonderful

when you see a great relationship building with people you work with where they recognize you're being the boss that they never had as well. And you are too. And you're also realizing they're being a great person of your team that hasn't been like other people have been. How have you learned to like sense that and know that when you're like, okay, well, me

and this person can go and build together and create together or this is the right person to recruit onto my team or like, what are the things that you're looking at and trying to decipher? Because I think right now we do live in a world where also people are thinking about a job as a paycheck and they don't care. Whereas you're very passionate, you're very driven. You always have been since the Delhi. So it's like, if you've cared that much about the Delhi and the sandwich, obviously you

care so much about what you do today. Totally. How do you do that? Well, you know, I think I'm really realistic because you all have those people in your business that come to work with you literally because, you know, a good American, we are B-Corp registered, right? And people feel that they want to work in a company because, you know, a good American, we are be court-registered, right? And people feel that they want to work in a company that cares about the environment,

that cares about what they're putting out, and you'll get people that care about the mission and the vision and the values. But I don't expect that everybody will care. I know that there are some people that just come, and they just want their paycheck. And so for me, I try to separate who I am and what I might need from what

somebody else might need. My expectation is that not everybody's bouncing in there trying to kill it for me, right? I'm really sure that a lot of these people come in and they do their job and they're working on their side hustle halfway through the day. And that's okay, you know, it's like that's not for everyone. And I think that as I've got older, I've learned not to put my type of ambition on not to try to reflect that onto everybody that's around me. And those people, of course, they'll rise to the top, they'll make themselves known,

but it isn't for everybody. It's just a fact. And also, you need that when you're building a team. If everybody was an ambitious, they'll want to. It'll be a disaster. You need people that when you're building a team if everybody was an ambitious little monster It'll be a disaster, you know You need people happy to come in grinds do their job and leave it for the car. Yeah, yeah, absolutely How did you make that leap like you just said earlier? I'm just connecting the dots You were like I was never around anyone who's an entrepreneur had their own business everyone worked a job

Yeah, how did you? Accident Jay-Sheddy Okay gone gone it wasn't total accident because you know had their own business, everyone worked a job. Yeah, how did you? Accident, Jay Shetty. Accident. Go on. It wasn't total accident because, you know, I never set out to start my own company. I was frustrated that I wasn't being paid enough where I worked.

And then was like, all right, well, if you don't like that, then you're going to have to do something else. But I was also acutely aware that no one was going to come and hand me a company on a plate. Like, here's this company to run. You, you've had some with no experience and you know, you kind of jumped up 24-year-old.

And so I was very acutely aware that I'd have to do it myself. And that's where it came from. Like, you know, I'd love to say that I had this like, great idea and this great ambition, but it came out of like frustration and not being paid enough and feeling like I wasn't getting the value back

that I put in. That's the honest answer. Yeah, no, no, I think that's very relatable. I think most people are in positions like that, but that doesn't lead to the courage to go to do it, because we feel like, well, what if it doesn't work? Well, my friends say, and all those kind of things that come up because we're scared.

Even for me, like, I remember I had a steady job and I was, this is after I left the monastery, I'd come back home, I'd finally found a steady job. I was dating my... It's such a good sentence after I left the monastery. Isn't it good? He's just saying why in that area? It's really real.

So after I left the monastery. I was just starting to give context. I mean, this is the British band for that. I'm sorry. Emma's like, fully, I love it. I don't have a sentence like that. And I want one, I might just take it. After I bang it out.

You've got a beef here, you've got plenty. But no, so I was in the study job and it was like, I was dating my now wife and I Remember going this is not working for me Like and I wasn't killing it and I wasn't doing badly. I was I was doing all right But I just knew it wasn't my place. Yes, and I remember I probably spend two years there feeling that way totally You kind of just one I just think it over reflecting on it.

You're like, what do I do? What if it doesn't work? And so walk us through that a little bit because I think a lot of our listeners may actually be feeling that way. A lot of our audience is actually listening going, you know what, I'd love to, I'd love to forget doing what Emma's done now.

I just love to gal, where I am now, because it's just, you know what I mean? I think the truth of it was that I've never been that scared of failing, right? And for me, at that time in my life, I was making a small amount of money. It's fair to say that I didn't have any, you know, no one was relying on me to pay rent.

I had a tiny, tiny little, I lived in like a high rise in East London with no front door and a gate on the door. No oven, just a microwave, no fridge, I put my milk on the balcony, just to paint the picture of like where I was at that time in my life. It was rough. And honestly, what I thought is that how could I lose? Like at this point, I could always go and get another, similarly, not inspiring job. And so that idea of fear of not failing was really key, but I also was really, I've always been very honest with myself.

Like, you know, everybody has a voice in their head and some people have a voice that like chaps them up, you know, it's like I do, but I also have that voice that's like, Emma, like, no, what you don't know. Don't be too silly in this situation. So I think that I really, in that instance where I decided like, let's get out of this job and try to go and do

something else. It was enough understanding of it. Wasn't that good where I was? If it really didn't work out, I could always get back into something like that. But also that thing that just says, what happens if you don't do it? Like for me, I was miserable,

and I really saw a better life for myself, and I was like, I will just regret this when I'm 35, for example. And so it was really about just going like, no one's gonna take a chance on me, I have to take the chance on me. And then maybe someone else will be inspired to take a chance on me, which is ultimately what happened.

I left that role. I got employed in another job. And then when I got into that job, my now husband and business partner at that time, they kind of saw me and they were like, well, this girl's like kind of good. She has something and they ended up being my first investors when I was 25 years old.

That's incredible isn't it? Which was crazy, which to me, even at the time, it felt crazy. And I remember questioning and I was like, why would anyone invest in me and then I thought, no, of course, I don't invest in me. Who else are you going to invest in? Like, you might as well. I'm as good as anybody else out there. And that's when that thing started ticking in.

So I think sometimes you've just got to not be too afraid to lose. And you know, the truth is, Jay, I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded. Right? We don't talk about that. That's not in the articles. I don't post that on Instagram. But that's just the fact. Like, I've made so many mistakes before I got here and had three very successful companies. I had a dog of an agency that I opened here in a very successful business that was thriving in London and thriving in New York and I opened an office in LA and I embarrassed myself. I completely let the company down and let the ball down and let the staff down. I under-infested. I did all of

the classic mistakes and at the time I felt like it was the end of my company and my career, but it wasn't. It was just a failure. I've had lots of things like that happen. Lots of public embarrassments and things that didn't work out. And it sounds like such an obvious thing, but it's like, well, how do you recover from that?

And so for me, it's always been this thing of like, all right, well, I'll dust myself off. I've survived worse. And I think a lot of that comes from my upbringing, you know, it's like you see a lot of stuff go down and you can get through things. I think I'm pretty good at getting through things. And this is that Quincy moment where I'm like, I didn't even know. It's like, yeah, it's amazing. It's just like, you know, you, it's so fascinating how quickly we are. It's so fascinating how quickly we point out people's faults and then forget about them.

100%. And it's that happens so far. Because it's not as fun a story, right? People want, at the end of the day, I believe in, you know, the goodness of humans. We default one good stuff for each other and we want to see each other win and people are very happy to

celebrate alongside you. You're much more concerned about your failures. You're much more concerned about your fears than anybody else out there. And I think every now and again, I kind of just have to tune myself back into that piece of it. Yeah. And it sounds like what I really like is that you've got this ability, and I've been watching the whole interview, and it's like you've got this ability to know what the different voices in your head are. They give you very clear about like, this is the one that's being real, this is the ego, this is giving me the hype that I need right now.

100%, but also, I know their voices, I know they're not me. And I always knew that, because I have an ability, like my whole superpower in life is about being able to turn it on and off. And so I am acutely aware that those are just things and that I have at my disposal and sometimes they work to my advantage

and sometimes they work to my disadvantage. But I don't think that it's me, does that make sense? Like it's like, I know who I am. I like, in it ain't all of that. It's not the chatter, none of it. It's just, I'm something else. Yeah, I mean, that's an incredible distinction to know and have and build.

Did that come from, did you read something? Did you learn something? Was it just you started listening to yourself? Did you spend a lot of time alone? I mean, Treg does to what you did to gain that skill because it's a skill and you're obviously aware of it. You know, I think I'm just that like, Oprah generation.

Do you know what I mean? I mean, there's, yeah, yeah. You come home every day from school, Oprah was on that like, outpriced generation. Do you know what I mean? I saw them on the screen. I mean, there's weirdness. Yeah, yeah. You come home every day from school, I was on the TV, telling you to be great. We think, what do I have to be grateful for? Have you seen my house? Have you seen my trainers?

I need new shoes. So, you know, and it's like, I didn't get it then. But I started to believe it, and I started to read, you know, I am an avid reader. I read so much, everything, and always have, since I was 13, and again, it am an avid reader. I read so much everything and always have since I was 13. And again, it was that means of escapism. And so I started reading things like, you know, the power of now or like, you know, like all of these things that like conversations with God, I remember, you know, it's like, you're done at once. And I was like, like, just

blew my mind because I didn't know anybody that thought like that. And so maybe I just absorbed it, a bit of a couple of books. And it went in, like I understood it. And it made sense to me. No, it's as simple as that. And the same generation, like I grew up in the same way. And it's so true how like these tiny little messages just start connecting dots. And that's kind of what kids are built on.

And young people are built on it. You could have heard the same thing at school every day, but because it wasn't simplified and easy and digestible, you don't remember it, but you remember the random TV show, you watch, you're parents at it on the background. Exactly. Right, that's amazing.

Yeah, no, I love witnessing it in an interview with someone where you're like, wow, this person saw a way. And I want to talk more about, hopefully, this is what you don't get to talk about as much or maybe like you're saying, like men get asked this stuff and maybe women don't. I mean, treat. But like we were talking earlier, you're a brand marketing genius. Like you're super attentive, aware, conscious, you have this ability to think about products and brand in a different way.

How do you select problems to solve? How do you choose which problems you want to work on and then make sure that you build something that actually solves that problem? I think about it in the sense of myself. I think it will be very difficult for me, and I'm not saying other people can't do it, but to do things that you can't relate to, right? So I always start with the idea that if it's a problem for me, likelihood is it's a problem for

other people like me, whether that be other young women or other women in the middle of America, but it's like the starting point, it's always, what do I find problematic? And then I think the lens and the kind of red thread that goes through all of my companies is this idea that, and again, I hate saying it because in the last kind of five years, it's almost become like this sort of buzzword, but when we think about inclusivity and business and what that actually means, including and thinking about the most amount of people possible. When I started Good American, it was actually a reaction to this idea that so many women, women of color, plus size women, it just completely left out the fashion conversation and why is their dollar any less valuable than anybody else's? And so I had worked in marketing for all of these years, for 15 years, I grew this incredible

agency and I'd done castings and put projects and collaborations together for the biggest and best brands in the whole world. And I'd been part of actually falsifying an image of inclusivity. You know, it's like you have a group cast, you need a black girl and an Asian girl and an this and then listen to it. And actually when you thought about the product and when you thought about the senior management of those companies, it looked nothing like that, right? It just, the product didn't work for anyone over a certain size

and the boardrooms were just all made up of typically like white men making the decisions usually for women. And I just sort of thought to myself, there must be a better way to start a company, but it came from problem solving for myself. And I go back to this idea of like, you know, when you think about businesses, it makes more sense that they would be geared towards serving more people. That's just good business, right?

Forget D-E-N-I, forget like, you know, this idea of diversity, equity, inclusion, doing something, being something that companies need to do now. It's just good business. And when I talk about this idea of inclusivity and diversity being a superpower in business, it's not something that I just say. It's something that I do.

That's where the process actually starts. I'm thinking about how can I best serve customers, the most amount of people, and then when there's an acknowledgement of someone who isn't usually acknowledged, of course it goes without saying that suddenly they feel seen, they feel heard, and they're like, I'm going with this girl.

I'm going with this brand because it's the first time anyone's spoken directly to them. And I think that that's such an underthought about part of business. You know, people usually bolt it on at the end. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's right where you start. It's in the inception of those products. It's in making 32 sizes. It's in doing nine different shades. It's in the very, very beginnings of what you're creating. And then you can dress it up and make it look nice and put the right kind of branding on it, but actually it starts way earlier than that. And so I actually think about customers in a way that I think most people don't. Where did you not learn that, but where did you learn to look to understand that? Obviously it started with yourself.

But I'm like, why didn't people do that before? Because like you just said, it's better business, it's better financially, it makes more sense, it makes more people happy. What do you think blocks companies? It just comes from where decisions are being made, right? Because it's like, you don't know what you don't know. And I've sat in enough rooms trying to pitch enough businesses to a group of people that aren't my end audience.

And I have actually said in meetings before, maybe you should phone your wife or daughter. But literally, like phone them, because you don't understand this, because it's not for you. And so I think that decisions are made in such an abstract way in most companies. And you see this when companies make mistakes, right? There was seen a lot of big fashion you see this when companies make mistakes, right? There was seen a lot of like big fashion brands and big consumer brands make mistakes that have seemingly kind of come across as like insensitive races, completely misogynistic. That's just where a decision is made. A company isn't inherently racist, like the whole company. It's

just a decision-making process is flawed. I.e. there's not enough people in the room of a different background to say, hey, perhaps put the t-shirt on the other kid, like then it won't be an issue. So I think that this just comes from the idea of where are the decisions made in that company and who's making the decisions. And I know that the more people you bring around a table from different backgrounds, we're not just talking about race here. We're talking about age, education, the full gambit, like the better the company will be. Yeah, that is such great. I love what you just said about asking so many of you to call their partner or their door to whatever it is.

Totally. Whatever it may be because you're so right. Like I think so many people sit in meetings and they're looking around going, these people don't know what they're talking about or like they just don't understand. Totally. How have you maintained like, I guess the question is, how many of those meetings have I did you have to sit in

until you felt like, I'm just gonna do this or we're just gonna figure it out or did you look for someone who agreed with you and had your values and did the research or was it kind of like we're just gonna build it ourselves? Like give us a bit of that because I think a lot of people sit in the... You know, it's so interesting.

I'm at that point in my career now where I don't sit in a lot of meetings. Now they pitch me. Yeah, good. Which is lovely. I love that. I'm like, come over here and I'll let you know if you can come in.

But in the early days, I think that I sat in a lot of situations feeling like, you know, the great thing is I never doubted myself or any of those ideas. I just thought I hadn't found the right people yet. It's a little bit like, you know, I'm happy to kiss a lot of frogs. And I always have been, because again, I don't think it should be so easy when you're doing something that is new and without so much definition and unproven, like it's supposed to be hard. And again, it's like anything, I never let it get to me.

I just was like, oh, poor chick, and he doesn't get it yet. And he will do, and he'll kick himself, you know? And that's fine, you know, it's just, it's part of it. And I don't mean that in a smug way, but I never, I never doubted what I was doing. I was very, very clear, especially when we started Good

American. I was like, this thing people don't understand and we'll just get them to understand it. Yeah, definitely, yeah. No, and I think that's such a great mindset to have. And do not have the smugness or bitterness because that person just wasn't in the right space. You don't know what you don't know, right? And I think that's such a great mindset to have. And do not have the smugness or bitterness because that person just wasn't in the right space.

You don't know what you don't know. Totally, it's totally cool. I feel like that all the time. I'm like, I'm trying to find the people who want to be part of this story. And if they don't want to be a part of this story, that's totally cool. Something about Mary Poppins.

Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh, man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is Puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. That's good. We are living in the golden age of puzzles. And now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears for 10 minutes or less. Every day on the puzzler, short and sweet.

I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun! Let's try this one. Listen to the puzzler every day on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming! Listen to comeback stories. I'm Darren Waller. You may know me best as a titan for the New York Giants. You may also know me for my story of overcoming addiction and alcoholism. You may have heard a few of my tracks as an artist or

producer. You may have seen the work that I've done through my foundation. And you may know my friend and co-host Donnie Starkens as well. He's a mindfulness teacher, a yoga instructor, a life coach, a man fully invested in seeing people reach their fullest potential and we've come to form this platform of comeback stories to really highlight not only our own adversity but adversity in the lives of well-known guests with amazing stories. Catch us every week on Comeback Stories, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Of course, because they won't be great partners to you down the line, right?

Absolutely. It's like you even get it and you want to be part of it and you are happy to know that you don't know it all, right? Because it's about new space. It's like if we were all doing the same thing and trying to set up the same companies, we'd never find a skims. Exactly. You know, it's like you'd never land on it. You'd be like that's too complicated if that's not how we do things. And you'd skip over the great stuff. How have you managed to continue to stay hungry and also stay innovative when things are good? Like before you drew my, I didn't like my job, but I wanted to get out. You know, milk was outdoors.

I was, you know, like, there's a pain that pushes you in a better direction. I'm not saying you don't have pain anymore. Of course, there's stress is. I don't have that much pain. I have daily dramas, but the pain has gone. You know what it is? You are fueled every day by a piece of it is competition, right?

It's like I look at everything. There is no one who knows more about genes and nickers than I do. I look at every competitor. I go out in the market, I see it, I know the promotion and okay dance, I know everything everybody else is doing. And I think that that natural inquisitiveness is part of what keeps me good. But at the end of the day, it's like, I just want to win. You know, it's like, I don't feel satisfied. You know, it's like, I don't feel satisfied. And also, it's like, how could you?

It's just been a couple of years. There's a lot of people that have had successes for six and for three years. I don't think that's the end goal. The end goal is to build like, you know, generational or generationally defining businesses. And that doesn't happen quickly. And also, I'm not stupid enough to think like

or to let a few years success get to me. There's a lot of people that had a few years success. You know, that's not the end game and so I think about now it's about, you know, really taking the foundations of what we feel, not sacrificing any of your principles and still being able to grow and to thrive and to hire people. But that gets more and more difficult to bigger you get, right? There's one thing saying, oh, we're going to do business this way when there are 10 of you and you're doing a million dollars. It's very, very different all these years in because there's no model. There's nothing that you can go out and emulate. We are making it up as we're going along.

Yeah, how do you define winning now? Like, is that how you define winning or? You know, I define winning now by doing things that excite me. Like, you know, it's like, we just launched this insane push up bra at Schimms and everyone's talking about it. It's all over the place and, you know, like, that's exciting to me because like, one of my girls in England will call me and be like, my god I need to get up right you know I love that and I still get a thrill from you know it's like I love what I do like I genuinely really love it and I just

want to keep getting better at it and for me it comes in so many different ways it's like I love giving people opportunities I love the hiring part of it and get into work with all different people. And I think that those things for me feel really successful. But if you were to ask me just to like boil it down, it would be like to continue the growth and what we're doing without sacrificing the principles that we set the companies out with. Brr, right. Yeah. I don't want to dial it down because we're reaching some kind of like critical mass. Yeah, yeah. How do you, you know, we were talking about that. You have daily dramas. You said, not pains. Well, nobody talks to me when things are going well. My life is just a series of

problems. You know, from the minute I wake up to, you know, the minute I go to bed, like, that's just a fact. The stress level is unbelievable. And I do think that's important because you wouldn't know that looking at me or maybe just speaking to me, but my job is not all trying different fabrics out and hanging around with models. That's just not what I do.

Exactly. Yeah, what do you find to be the most stressful thing about building a business? And what do you do in order to deal with it? I think the most stressful thing is probably the expectations, right, that that comes from the outside. I honestly believe you're only as good as your last launch. I never, ever drink the Kool-Aid, ever.

It's fine. And I think that, you know, I happen to work in extremely high-profile businesses where everything that we do is scrutinized and with that comes a level of stress. It comes back to that thing of being very ritualistic. I, you know, am militant about the things that work for me, you know, I suffer with migraines, I get super, you know, I carry stress like in my body. And so it's like, I get up very early, I wake up, I work out, I meditate, I make sure I have to be up before my children are out,

because I need like, quiet time, I need time to like focus. I'm like religiously grateful, like I've trained myself to focus on the great stuff in my life because I feel like there is so much noise, you know, whether I like it or not. And so I could be overwhelmed every day in the things that are going on around me. And at the end of it, I'm like looking out, going, wow, the ceiling in my bedroom, like, how could you even have a seat? I could never imagine that. I'd have such a beautiful ceiling.

Yeah. Ever, you know, it's like, I am someone who truly stops to smell the roses, like quite literally. I can find good happiness joy in anything. And I really make it a point and a priority to do that every day. And even as I have my tea, you know, it's like, I have special tea from Japan,

and I have a special pop that I put it in. And I just like, taste it. And every day, it's like, I have special tea from Japan and I have a special pot that I put it in and I just like taste it and every day it's like I'm tasting it for the first time. But if I didn't do those things, I would lose my mind. You know, I would lose my mind. And so I think I've just trained myself to like enjoy the kind of the rituals and the small things and be hyper grateful because there is no difference between me and all of those kids that I went to school with in East London and I should be so lucky. It's like we're here in the sunshine, I have a look in the whole of LA, I'm chatting to you, I'm going to go into my office where I'm the boss and people are going to film me chatting about stuff like I don't have anything to complain about. But I bet and from what what I've learned today, you were like that even when the milk was

outside. 100% honest. I was like at least I have a balcony. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have a fridge for every balcony. Yeah, because if it wasn't there then it wouldn't be there now. 100% 100%. If you went on a walk with little Emma as a memory, memory you like held hands and you went on a little walk with that

What do you think she'd say to you? I think she'd say well done love You did it Keep going keep going. Yeah, I think so what would you say back? I? Am I'm doing I'm doing walking I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm

doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing, I do something, I feel a weight and an expectation of a group of people that have been historically left out and marginalized from a lot of these conversations and a lot of these opportunities. And there is this huge sense of responsibility that I have for women, especially sort of young black women and minority women and kids that just grew up poor anywhere, like I think about all that stuff every single day. And I think that real success for me will be when I am able to really poor what I've got and what it is that I kind of like strive for and continue to achieve and and have that

affect a lot more people. And I do that in ways, you know, like through my chairmanship of the 15% pledge that's been like a huge undertaking and an amazing amount of work that I have been able to do. But for me, it's like that is only kind of scratching the surface. And I think more and more of my work will be in, how can I help so many more people that are like me? You know, get out of their circumstances and be able to contribute more because it just is mesmerising to me that I've been able to go so far.

And it ain't because I'm something special. It's because there were a series of circumstances and then enough kind of grit and determination that I was able to do it. And so it's like, how do you put other people into the same circumstances so that if they have the will that they can do it to? And so that's where I'm fixated right now.

What's been one of your favorite success stories from that or like a memory story from that work? You know, it's so funny because it happens again in the smallest ways, right? It's like, I'll have a chat, I get hundreds of people reach out to me to say, listen, I'm starting a business. I, you know, I'm selling $10,000 a month for this COVID brand and it's like, I'll jump on the phone

and I'll give someone some advice. Like, you know, I had a girl a couple of years ago, she was like, I think I'm gonna get into self-rejez and I wanna know how to do that. How do I structure the contract? Anyway, fast forward two years later, I do my first ever like, ask me anything because my team pressured me into it.

I'm like, so sure it's just not my back. But anyway, so I do the first, ask me anything and all the girls are asking me the same questions. I had you start a business, how do you try? I did it. And this girl comes up and then says, I just wanna let you know that I now do however many tens of thousands of week at Selfridges. And it was all because you helped me walk through that contract.

And I took your advice and I, you know, I stuck to the distribution plan and did it. And I was like, Oh my God, you know, and so it's always those tiny things for me. And again, that's just about giving someone your time. So I'm really trying to think thoughtfully about how I can do more of that in a more systematic and a bigger way, because sadly, I can't answer every phone call or every DM. What comes to you?

Yeah. What are you talking about? That's so beautiful. And I think that component is such a big part of happiness and success. Of course it is. Because you're so right. Like no one who's got the top is any more special.

Just going back to what your mom said at the beginning. No, you won't, you won't. And as soon as you start thinking it, or people also start thinking it, that, oh yeah, that person's there because they're faster, smarter, better. Or when we do the opposite one, we go, they don't deserve to be there.

They can act like, no. Both of those just take it away and I look at your journey and I'm so, I like really admire the way you live and think. Like it's really, it's such a wonderful mindset and it's such a strong, you've been able to craft something that's so resilient and you can, yeah, it's so, what you've been able to craft something that's so resilient and you can Yeah, it's so what you've been able to build and I'm talking about almost like if we were to physically look at your mindset It's so resilient because I can hear as we've approached it from so many different points of view It's like you have such a clear philosophy on how you live who you are what matters what doesn't matter

Yeah, and I look at that clarity when I see you as like, that's the reason you are, who you are, and where you are. It's because you're just so clear. And I feel like no matter what would happen either way, it's like, that is what you're betting on. And that's what you've been building and focused on. I think so. Yeah.

I think so. Someone write that down. I really mean it. I really mean it. I really mean it. It's so kind. It's so kind. No. And I love that you say that.

It makes me so happy because you never think about yourself in such clear terms like that, right? It never...you are who you are in so many ways. You know, and I see that with my own kids. They're like four people that I think, well, you got exactly the same upbringing. We all live in the same house. I don't do one thing different.

And yet they are just these four tiny individuals. And it's six months. It's like, you know exactly what kind of kids you've got. Like, you know if this kid is like super anxious, this kid's super obnoxious, like, you know exactly who they are. I'm sure there's lots of things and changes coming in their lives, but so much of it is just in you, right? And then you lay a circumstances onto that. And you

know what you're capable of, what you can and can't affect, and what you should be doing. And so I always look at it. I was living like a very nice, very privileged life in England and I moved here specifically for work. And it's been wonderful for work, but in so many other facets of my life being in LA has been an eye-opener. And it's actually fueled me in a way that I had really never expected. And I always think, you know, if you elevate your health,

you elevate your life. It's like if you elevate your thinking, you elevate, you know, what your capabilities are. And so for me, it's just been wonderful and an amazing moment to be here because I've been able to elevate so many things that I do. And I think that that should only end up in like a bunch of other people being able to benefit from that. Absolutely. Well said, right, that now. Printed out. That was, yeah, no, they're absolutely like, I think it's think it's incredible how, you know, I think a lot of people label L.A. as Hollywood

and think of it as just that. Yeah. But it's like, I feel the same way as you, like moving here, like my eyes have opened up just so many more things. Totally. That are really valuable, important in sight for met people who are doing incredible things.

You know, what you just said now of like opening the door and trying to break down, we had, you know, just a few months ago, we had Louis Hamilton here talking about 44 and talking about how he's trying to help, you know, trying to help people of color get into the world of Formula One, which is a normal, which him and his father were able to do. Like, you start seeing that happen across fashion, sports, business. And that's so incredible because you start thinking about all those little embers and little luices and everyone else out there. Totally.

Who's just trying to figure out whether they have a shot. Yeah. 100%. And they do. Emma, we end every episode with a final five, which we sit down and do as a fast five, which means every answer has to be one word to one sentence maximum.

One word to one sentence, all right. Right, my self-heat. I always ruin it because I get intrigued. So, all right, okay. So, Emigried, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? I wish that I could make this sound as powerful

as it was for me. It's a first thing to say, but it's a good one. It was to make a decision and move on, because you can be so stifled by your decisions. And when you are just stuck, it just does so many other things to you. And so I think it served me really well in so many ways. I used to think about it just for business. And now I don't. I think it's make a decision and move on. Yeah, yeah. I always say to people, stop trying to make the right decision, just make a decision and then make it right. Totally. You know, you do it afterwards.

100% you can go back, you can go back afterwards. Yeah. I love that. That's great. We never had that. I'm sure. I love that. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Staying your lane. What was the lane? I don't know, but someone was trying to stifle me and lucky enough I listened to my little Emma inside and gave her a big ol' pimp. Never stay in your lane. I love it. But it's interesting because I think all the growth in my life has come when I have stepped

outside of whatever lane I was in at that time. And so it's useless advice. Absolutely. Question number three, how would someone who doesn't know you that well describe you in three words? I wish, if you're listening to this, you just missed out on the best facial expression. You need to go to YouTube right now. It's always such a worry.

I mean, goodness me, the things I've been called. How would someone describe me? I think they would describe me as like kind. I'm a kind person, ambitious, and like not to be messed around with. Got it, I like it. I like the third one, Not to be messed around. I could be the one with right.

I mean, that's what people think about me. They're like, tough. Yeah. Tough. Kind of, but tough. Yeah. And ambitious. Question number four, how would someone who knows you very deeply

describe you in three words? Sensitive. Very thoughtful. And tough. That's brilliant. We need to get your husband on the phone. Exactly. To verify.

To verify, for sure. You go tough, tough and tough. I love it. An Emma, your final question, fifth to final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? You know, very specifically for the time we're in right now, it would be to lead with kindness. Nothing else. Yeah, we need it in every little interaction. In everything, it's so powerful and it's what I teach my kids, you know, it's like, just be kind.

teach my kids, you know, it's like just be kind. Like it doesn't take much and it goes so unbelievably far, you know. And when I say that about myself being kind, it's like that is something that I think about every single day. Like how am I treating people? What do people get from me? And I'm talking about every one, you know, like everyone. It's just a fact, just be kind. Emma, great. Thank you for coming on. I'm proud of you. This is incredible. Everyone who's been listening and watching wherever you are, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're at the gym, whether you're driving tour from work,

whether you're listening with your friends, I want you to know that please go and tag me an Emma in the moment that stood out to you. Maybe there's a quote, maybe there's, there was so much wisdom sprinkled across this entire episode. I hope that you find the ones that resonate with you. I hope that this helps you make a shift in your career. I hope this helps you make a shift in your mindset about how you're trying to balance what's going on in your world.

I hope this helps you think differently about the choices and decisions you're trying to balance what's going on in your world. I hope this helps you think differently about the choices and decisions you're about to make. Please, please, please tag me in MI across social media to let us know what stood out to you. Please show our ton of love, Emma. Thank you for doing this, thank you for opening up, thank you for being so real and wonderful to spend this much time with.

Oh, it's been a pleasure. I've loved every second. I'm so grateful to you. Glad to hear you. Thank you, Jay. Thank you. Thank you. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview

with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child. You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, that is so unfair because that's not who I am. And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?

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I'm AJ Jacobs and my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun. You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon.