On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Hannah Berner: Why Getting Fired Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Have you ever been fired from a job? Did it end up leading you to something better? Today, Jay sits down with comedian, podcaster, and former reality TV star Hannah Berner to explore her unconventional journey—from competitive tennis to stand-up comedy. Hannah shares how she’s mastered the art of pivoting, embracing change, and knowing when to walk away from something that no longer serves her. Hannah opens up about her struggles with performance anxiety during her tennis career and the surprising sense of calm she found on stage. Through humor and self-reflection, Hannah shares how life’s setbacks—like getting fired from reality TV—turned out to be unexpected blessings that helped her find her true purpose.  Jay and Hannah also discuss the importance of trusting your instincts, quitting with confidence, and listening to your body when it tells you something isn’t right. Things get personal as Hannah opens up about love, marriage, and self-worth, sharing the importance of relationships should feel effortless and not draining.  In this interview, you'll learn: How to Overcome Performance Anxiety How to Trust Your Instincts in Big Decisions How to Create a Career That Aligns with Your Personality How to Navigate the Challenges of Marriage and Long-Term Commitment How to Let Go of External Validation and Focus on Self-Worth How to Handle Criticism and Keep Moving Forward Whether you’re questioning your career, your relationships, or your purpose, trust that walking away from what doesn’t serve you is just as powerful as chasing what does. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Join Jay for his first ever, On Purpose Live Tour! Tickets are on sale now. Hope to see you there! What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:38 The Right Athletic Attitude 03:02 Becoming an Expert Quitter 06:40 Coach Yourself Out of Negative Self-Talk 12:18 Performance Anxiety 15:06 Moving Towards Your Calm 16:32 Finding Your Own Comfort Zone 20:06 Letting Go of Ego 24:37 People-Pleasing Tendencies 29:09 Fired by Bravo 30:46 Self Confidence or Self Worth? 31:30 A Different Kind of Revenge Mindset 34:31 Loving Your Own Story 38:44 Get Good at Planning Personal Breaks 41:07 Dealing with the Craziest Rumors  42:22 Mom Intuition is Real 46:34 Emotional Unavailability in Relationships 49:59 Modern Dating Struggles  53:36 Surprising Challenges in Marriage 56:50 What’s Your Love Language? 01:00:20 Find Your Superpower 01:05:43 A Message to Your Younger Self 01:07:54 How Do You Chase Your Dreams? 01:12:08 Hannah on Final Five Episode Resources: Hannah Berner | Website Hannah Berner | Snapchat Hannah Berner | Instagram  Hannah Berner | TikTok  Hannah Berner | X How to GiggleSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, what's up? This is Questlove and every year we do special programming in February for Black History Month. Now it's especially important this year as we gear up for some new conversations, so the team and I compiled some clips from the show that are worth revisiting. In part one of the celebration of Black History Month, we're listening Back to Moments with Chris Rock, Solange, Prodigy, Ben Varine, Jennifer Lewis, Angela Rye, and Gina Yashere. Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Emi Olaya, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story. And what I heard wasn't good. You really f***ed last night. It felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction.

You had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to Krumz on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhita Vleukya, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there on this. I mean, they'll never get this good. People that I admire.

When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on. Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhidhav Luchia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty and I'm thrilled to announce my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can experience on purpose in person. Join me in a city near you for

meaningful insightful conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth, spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to meet you. There are a limited number of VIP experiences for a private Q&A, intimate meditation, and a meet and greet with photos. Tickets are on sale now. Head to jsheddy.me forward slash tour and get yours today. and get yours today. I wasn't happy, and I was burnt. And I just felt like a punching bag.

And I also was getting really bad performance anxiety. Right before I did my first ever stand-up set, I thought, oh no, I'm going to start getting those feelings I would get before a match of just like dread and shame. And stand-up, I went on stage and I felt a calmness I hadn't felt before. It's kind of like why try to fit into something that isn't right? So I urge people to find their calm. The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so excited for today's guest. I was a guest on her show probably just over a year ago. We had the best time. And if you haven't listened to it, I hope you will after this episode.

Today's guest is someone that is known for being hilariously funny, extremely witty, someone who's got the ability to make you think, laugh, and all of the same at the same time. Her name is Hannah Berner, one of the most influential rising comedians of this generation. She has two hit podcasts, as if one wasn't good enough,

Giggly Squad and Burn-a-Phone, which have garnered over 100 million combined downloads. Hannah's video series, Hannah on the Street, has earned over 350 million views, and Hannah was named one of Variety's top 10 comics to watch in 2023. She also just finished touring her solo stand-up routine to sold out theaters across North America and Europe and will embark on a club giggly national tour with co-host Paige DiSorbo.

The duo will release their book, How to Giggle, a guide to taking life less seriously, via Simon & Schuster on April 15th, 2025. So lots to look forward to. And most recently, Hannah debuted her first Netflix comedy special, We Ride at Dawn, which premiered at number two on the platform and is streaming now. Welcome to the show, Hannah Berner. I think people got everything.

I've nothing left to say. That's it, that's it. That was me. You've lived, you've lived. That's it. No, thank you for that. I's it, that's it. You're like, you've lived. You've lived. That's it. No, thank you for that. I appreciate it. It's amazing. It's so fun. Like when we met last year, I was learning...

All of my team are huge fans, like huge fans. And I was learning so much about you through them. And they were just like, this is amazing, you know. And just to see the incredible journey you've been on over the last 18 months is amazing. Thank you. And I was going to start by asking you, have you always been this confident? Oh my god.

I think I always was delusional. Like I always was like bored without having like a dream. Like at like seven years old, I wanted to be a professional tennis player and someone told my parents like she's too late to start. My parents told me like you can't be a professional tennis player. I wanted to be different and great in some capacity, which could be very ego, now that I'm looking back, but I just wanted to challenge myself and chase something. Had you ever played tennis before? I still haven't played tennis to this day, no.

I was an athletic kid and I think I was the Serena generation. Seeing Serena, I was like, why can't that be me? It was always kind of like, yeah, why can't I do that? I don't know if it was intrinsically like, my dad definitely instilled a lot of belief in me. And I just always was like, why can't me? Especially in like spaces that I felt like I didn't belong, whether it was like male dominated spaces

or just like places that I didn't think easily I could get into. whether it was male-dominated spaces or just places that I didn't think easily I could get into. My dad has a story that we were ice skating once when I was six, and all the girls were in the middle doing the jumps, and then everyone else is scared holding the rink on the outside. I've never ice skated before and I'm like, put me in the middle coach. So I just always had that attitude and it's hard to always be chasing like lofty goals. But I think that's like the high that I like. Yeah, that's dope. I mean, that's such a great mindset. I mean, you reminded me of me ice skating when I was young.

I was like, I could skate then and I couldn't stop. Like I didn't know how to slow down. So I would just fall when I had to stop. And now it's like I'm the guy holding the side going. As you get older, you're like, this is an insane hobby to have. Yeah. Like there's so many things that can go wrong. Totally.

I've seen people like break their teeth and chip them. And I've seen... Fingers flying. Fingers flying. I'm like, I don't need that to happen at this age. But it seems like you've channeled that into your career, right? Like that energy, it's not like it got lost somewhere. Yeah.

But before we get to that, I wanted to ask you a few more things because when I was looking into parts of your journey and what you've talked about and what you haven't... There's a lot of lives and like a cat. Yeah, you've lived so many lives, but I feel you've been amazing at pivoting and you've been like what I like to think of like an expert in quitting. Like you've been good at knowing.

You could say firing. You don't have to sugarcoat it. No, it's funny. I recently was like DMing an astrologer as you do. And she was like, you're really about like rebirth. And you're all about like things falling apart and then coming up like a phoenix. And I was like, why couldn't I have something easier? Be my purpose. But I've, yeah, I, when I outgrow something or don't feel right, like I get out of it. And sometimes people get out of it for me when I don't have the balls to be like,

this isn't my space anymore. But yeah, I've been, I had to quit, I quit tennis so I felt like a loser, even though I spent my whole life pursuing it and I played number one for the University of Wisconsin, full scholarship, like externally people were like, she's successful. Where in my head I'm like, I'm a loser failure

because I didn't win Wimbledon. And then I'm like, why did I do all that? And then I got into, eventually got into video production lose or failure because I didn't win Wimbledon. And then I'm like, why did I do all that? And then I got into eventually got into video production and I got fired from that job. And then I did reality TV and I got fired from that. And now I have a Netflix special, but And the more you are connected to yourself, the more an honest you are with yourself and in tune with yourself,

the more spaces might not be right for you. I've never been good at just like blindly following. I don't like being fake. I can't pretend to be happy. Like my body will reject situations. Same with like relationships. Like I can't, the be happy. Like my body will reject situations. Same with like relationships. Like I can't, the second I'm like, this is not right for me, I like blurt it out.

Like, like it needs to come out. How will your body tell you that? Like what's the? Anxiety. And it's funny, at first I was like, oh no, do I have bad anxiety? And I've talked to people and they're like, no, your intuition is actually really good.

You just have to listen to it. But when you question it, that's when you, like I've been in places where I'm like, I'm myself sabotaging, but my body's just like, this isn't for you. That's so powerful. I love that you said that, because I think we don't connect those two things.

We see it as, oh, I'm having anxious feelings. I feel nervous. Your body's protecting you. Yeah, totally. But it is signaling something. It's telling you something. Yeah, because I feel like we can'm overwhelmed. Your body's protecting you. Yeah, totally. But it is signaling something. It's telling you something. Yeah, because I feel like we can lie to ourselves a lot, especially when you're mentally strong. And in tennis, you have to really suppress your mind.

You have to be like, I'm not nervous. I'm not tired. I'm so ready for this match. And you have to numb your inner thoughts. And as I got older, I realized, wait, I have to start listening to my inner thoughts because they're actually right. And with tennis, I realized looking back, all the success I have now is because of the tennis training I had. It really was part of who I am now. Like, just because you lost a dream doesn't mean that's not going to make you better at something else.

It's not like, oh, that was a waste, which I love to tell people. But also, I love divorce. I love firing. I love leaving places that aren't right for you. And I feel like so many times you think you have to stay. I think the coolest part about life is tomorrow, I could wake up and say, I don't want to do this anymore. And there's such a beauty in that.

Yeah, why do you think we project that expectation onto a dream? Like if you think about it, when you think you're going to become a tennis player, today you're a comedian, you've lived a million lives in between, I'm sure you'll live a million more and you'll keep evolving. But a lot of us, like you said, we just stayed glued to I could have been, I should have been, if only I would have been, and that way we never shift our lens. What allows you to be so positive about going, let me trust that that isn't for me and I don't fit in here?

If people are listening and watching and they're thinking their first dream hasn't come true or or they failed at their first dream. How do you start believing in a second dream? It's so funny because everything is perspective. Like even me joking like I did that, that was a waste, and I didn't win Wimbledon and you laughed. Like it's funny but then it's also like, cut me up at night.

Sorry. But I was like, when I was little, I was like, the fact you didn't win Wimbledon, you're a piece of shit. Because that was 20 years of putting your heart and soul into this dream. But when I started doing comedy, my career ascended abnormally fast. And I tell people, I'm like, it's because I had a career before this to prepare me. And I approach comedy the way I approach tennis, but like healthier. Tennis, I was very hard on myself.

And I had the work ethic, but I didn't always practice smart. I was very, like, negative, self-talk. And with comedy, I'm now like re-coaching myself in a new way. So I'm like, when you go on stage, you're going to be positive. You're not a loser when you mess up. And I get to speak to myself the way I wish I was spoken to in my past career. And I see so many people who are like sad because they're ending something. And I'm like, you're going to be so good at the next thing. And also, there's a lot of shame that comes with like when you didn't accomplish something you wanted to.

But these are all just your own games you're playing in your head of what you should be. Because if I look back, I actually, my first love was like acting and being goofy. Like I love drama class. I love painting. I loved creating. But I happened to be super athletic and that was where I was kind of pushed towards. And looking back I'm like, wait, I didn't think you could make money doing what you love. I thought you had to be like a tortured athlete who was just like on the grind. And for anyone who's feeling kind of not having a purpose right now, think back to what you loved when you were a kid. And I know it sounds crazy, but like, you can still be that kid

and have that joy before society told you all these things that you should do to be successful. And I kind of realized tennis, there were too many rules, and I like don't enjoy playing by the rules. Like, I don't like staying in the box, and tennis was all about like hitting in the lines. And stand-up, I think I love, because like, I go on stage and no one can tell me what to do. in the box and tennis was all about like hitting in the lines and stand up. I think I love cause like I go on stage and no one can tell me what to do.

And it turns out that's where I can be my most myself. I love that. You would have been that player smashing the racket. I've broken rackets. I've definitely, you know, had like coaches that wanted me to change stuff about my game that I would try, but I didn't really believe it. It was a lot of like, just trust your coach and don't listen to yourself.

And it really, it made me who I am. And I actually couldn't watch tennis for years after. I was very like, it was like an ex-boyfriend. Like, cause it was the longest relationship I ever had. So, but now I like love tennis. Like I have it on all the time. I played a lot this summer to get fit. And I was like, wait, it's a part of me and it makes me who I am. And me calling myself a loser is just...

That's a perspective you can take. Or you can be like, by the way, I actually was really good at tennis back in the day. Isn't that cool? I can relate to you in so many ways. Like my life is so different, but as you're speaking, I feel exactly the same way. Like I think even when we sat on your show, I was talking about how leaving being a monk felt like a divorce at the time.

Yes. And because I felt like I was getting married, it was a commitment, it was something I was really excited about. And then now it's been 11 years since I've left the monastery and I am so happy I left. And I couldn't agree with you more that I too have lived so many lives in between that and this. I went back into the corporate world. I worked in a massive corporation with 500,000 employees and all of what that looked like.

And then I worked at a media company. I was at Huff Post for briefly. And so I've lived so many lives and I couldn't agree with you more that I've just constantly tried to move closer to who I really am and align with how I want to express myself, who I want to be. And you can't just know it. You can't know it. You have to go through those trials and tribulations. Like I tried entertainment in so many different ways.

Like I worked at a company, I did reality TV. Like I did a lot of things that I didn't and I was like, those don't really feel right, but I do like parts of it. So then you grow and you just take what you learn. That's why anyone who's having a tough time in their 20s, I did a lot of things that I didn't and I was like, those don't really feel right, but I do like parts of it. So then you grow and you just take what you learn. That's why anyone who's having a tough time in their 20s, you're supposed to have a tough time. Like the 20s, everyone's flailing and you take that time.

So by the time you get to 30, you're like, oh, first of all, I'm tired. I'm too tired to be like upset about things. And two, I kind of know what I like and what I don't like. Yeah. Is it true that I heard somewhere very briefly that you were hit by a car? Oh yeah. Is that like... Because I couldn't really... I was trying to... I don't like say it that much because I don't want people to think I stopped tennis because I got hit by a car. Right, right.

But my last year at University of Wisconsin, I was playing number one for the team, and I kind of had this idea that if I had a great season, I would then go pro. And this season, it was going pretty well, and then right before the Big Ten tournament, I got hit by a car going to practice, and it was like 7 a.m. University of Wisconsin, it was like zero degrees,m. University of Wisconsin.

It was like zero degrees. I had a big parka on and a guy hit me in the car. And I'm lying on the ground and the first thing I thought about was like tell my coach I'm going to be late because I'm going to be in trouble because he's going to be like why is she not here? Like I was so, it's almost cultish. You're just so obsessed with this team and doing your best and winning. And I recovered after a couple of months, but I wasn't like my sharpest. And I lost, this is very sports talk, but I lost five matches in third set tie breakers. So it basically means like I, like one or two points were the difference in five matches. And if I had won those five matches, I would have like won all these awards. I would have probably gone pro. And if I had won those five matches, I would have won all these awards,

I would have probably gone pro. And for whatever reason, these are really just these minuscule moments. I didn't win those matches. And I remember being like, I think the universe, like a person can only take so much. And I, but the thing is,

I could have kept playing tennis and I would have been fine, but I knew there was more happiness in life that I just wasn't living. And I wasn't happy and I was burnt. And I just felt like a punching bag. And I also was getting really bad performance anxiety. And what's cool about the performance anxiety is that

I thought I would have it in comedy too, and I didn't. Like right before I did my first ever standup set, I thought, oh no, I'm gonna start getting those feelings I would get before a match of just like dread and shame and like judgment day, like whatever happens is gonna, there's a lot weighing on it. And stand up, I went on stage and I felt a calmness I hadn't felt before.

So I urge people to find their calm. It's kind of like why try to fit into something that isn't right. And I do think I was playing for other people besides myself. I wanted my parents to be proud of me. I wanted my peers to think I was cool. And that's all you know when you're younger.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that idea of moving towards your calm. I mean, it's the same in relationships. Yes. Like I had one of my friends, she's going to hate me for putting it out. But I'm going to do it anyway. One of my friends messaged me the other day and she was just like, just went out with this guy, he was perfect, we had the same values, he'd be an amazing dad, but I just didn't feel it.

And I was like, dude, did you feel peace? Did you feel calm? And she was like, felt so peaceful, felt so calm. I was like, you should at least give it a second date or a third date. Like, you don't just write it off. And it was so interesting to me how we're so averse to things feeling aligned. Like we have this kind of allergic reaction when something feels aligned and something actually feels like we connect. You almost feel guilty when something comes easy.

You're like, that's not how it's supposed to be. The dating stuff is so funny because I have a friend who like loves dating like drummers who were in jail. Like that's her thing. And she's gorgeous and like such a catch, but she loves these like projects to take on. And she recently met this guy and she was like, I love him, but like, I feel like he needs like a neck tattoo or something.

And I was like, let's just take a breather, keep seeing him because yeah, there was this addiction to tennis that almost wasn't that healthy. Like I was addicted to the drama and just like the anxiety it was provoking in the highs. And I was actually still able to find those highs in comedy that was just like less torturous to me. Yeah, I really like that comparison between the two

because obviously you were brilliant at both and it's hard to decipher. Like I meet a lot of people who are like, Jay, I could do this or I could do this. Which one should I do? Yeah. It's like a very common question that I get. Like I'm passionate about this and I'm passionate about this.

And what I hear what you're saying to kind of decipher and divide the two is, well, maybe you're addicted to this and maybe you have a lot of affection for this over here and go with the thing that feels less overtly stressful, less dramatic, less like the high is really high and the low is really low. Right? Yes. I mean, I'm kind of obsessed with, and by obsessed with, I mean, I heard about it once and I like it. Stoicism, because that was not my life. It's like, especially as an athlete, as a tennis player, you're like losing all the time. You're, or you're like,

I'm the greatest that ever did this. Or you're like, oh, so good, I need to quit. And I think what I realized with tennis, and it was hard to admit, but I actually did not like the competition. But I thought that was just a problem that I had to overcome. I was like, you're just not doing it right.

But all the girls around me would be like, I actually hate practice, but I love the competition. And the competition is literally what it means to be a professional athlete. When it came to comedy, some people will be like, I hate going on stage. I live for the stage. Like I'm more uncomfortable at like a group dinner, but if you give me, because I'm like, when do I talk? Do I do less? Do I do more?

But when I have a mic on stage, I know exactly what to do. And it's corny to say, but like go towards your purpose and go to, and the calmness is where it's like, oh, this is where you're supposed to be. It's almost like with friend groups, like, oh, this is where you're supposed to be. It's almost like with friend groups. Like, you know when you're with people and you just feel like I'm saying everything wrong,

I'm awkward, oh my God, I hate myself, I'm so embarrassed. You could say those same things with the right people and you would feel like comfortable. So I feel like that with careers. So going back to your question of which one should I do, I literally did not like competing, but I liked, I was so that with careers. So going back to your question of which one should I do, I literally did not like competing, but I liked, I was so comfortable with the idea of being a tennis player and overcoming this performance anxiety and getting to the next level.

And it's like, if you're going to do something for a long time and be good at it and want to be successful, you have to like it. I know that sounds so simple. People come to me, they're like, I want to start a podcast, what should I do? And I'm like, do something that you would do for free and talk about for years. You can't just do it because you're like,

oh, I want to see my face on a chart. You won't make it. There's no longevity in that. They are also my people. I was going through a hard time with reality TV actually. And I started doing standup and I would tell people. I was going through a hard time with reality TV actually. And I started doing standup and I would tell people what I'm going through and the standups were just like making fun of me.

And seeing it through their lens, I suddenly felt safe, I felt calm and I started to relate to them. I'm like, wait, I think like these people. Finding community is a huge part of my happiness where tennis is very lonely. Everyone was my competition. And comedy is lonely too, but I was able to find a community within it.

It's interesting, I'm like figuring this out right now as I'm speaking because people will say like, it's not about money, it's not about fame, it's about community. But I'm a pretty like, I don't love partying, socializing, but comedy I almost accidentally found people who accepted me, which I think has overall helped my day-to-day happiness. You've reminded me of this great book

that I read a long time ago called Flow State. It's all about flow, and it talks about this idea that comedians, speakers, musicians, athletes experience flow state. Flow state is defined as when your skills meet the challenge. So when your skills and challenge are perfectly aligned, you experience flow. But what most of us experience are the opposite.

So we experience our skills being above our challenge. So we feel bored and frustrated and kind of lethargic. Or you experience where your challenge is way above your skills, and then you feel depressed and you feel annoyed and you feel angry. Out of control. Out of control. And so, we've got to constantly find a space or find the thing where your challenges and your skills meet. And I've always liked that idea.

And how does competition look like as a comedian? To me, it was like arts and crafts. I was like, we're all just painting, and like, I like your painting, you like mine. And I think some comics get really into the comparison game because it's easy to be like, why did they get picked for that or they get picked for that? And I think I don't have an ego with comedy because I'll be honest, I have an ego with tennis. Tennis was my everything. So comedy to me was something I, no one even anticipated me to be in.

So I have a lot of gratitude. And it's almost like, because of my failure with tennis, I'm able to have such a nice outlook in the comedy space. Every now and then, you know, I do have that like tennis voice that comes in. I remember before I shot my Netflix special, it started to hit me the result voice that I had with tennis, which was like, oh, your whole career is riding on this.

And comedy, I consider myself in a flow state because I'm not trying to be perfect on stage. It's about my energy, it's vibes. I always say, people don't remember the joke you said, they remember how you made them feel. But then for the Netflix special, I felt like, oh my God, this is like a final, like I have to get every word right.

And the perfectionist tennis player started coming back. I called my therapist, I was getting a beta blocker. I started to get this crazy anxiety. And I feel like it was almost like, if you want to get to the next level, you have to face those demons that you thought you could just like leave by going to another career. I'm still the same person who was having trouble with tennis.

So I was able to kind of battle some demons. I remember a quote that I loved that was like, what if you let your dreams come true? And I remember being like, I think you're not the same girl actually, you've grown, you've matured, you're safer mentally. And right before I went on, I was very nervous, right before I went on, I was like, you're in control and your skills are ready for the moment.

And I felt the same with Fallon, where I was like, you could go up and fumble all your words and blank out, because that was what I would do on the court. I would, anything I was scared of, I would do like, oh no, I hope I don't double fall. I double fall. Like it was so frustrating. And comedy has been a way for me to like, just like a new avenue for me to express myself in a much more like safer, positive place.

But I have the same like drive and work ethic I think I had with tennis. I really love the way you've analyzed both. And I think anyone who's listening right now would gain so much from it because I think so many people are doing this mental exercise in their head. Yeah. Like the pros and cons of like, if I stay in this job, what's it going to feel like? If I quit my job, what's it going to feel like? Or if I start a podcast as the example you gave, or if I do this, what's it going to feel like? And the truth is, this is what you've got to move towards.

And I also think we're told a lot, like, keep chasing your dreams, push through, don't quit. So I'm not telling everyone to quit, but I actually think that you know when you're supposed to get out of something. And I think I knew it with tennis when the wins, I was feeling nothing. It was like a drug where if I lost, I'd feel horrible.

And then the wins, I wasn't even getting the highs anymore. So in my head, it's like, why am I doing this if I'm not even getting a high anymore? And I think that's when I knew like, we're not even chasing anything anymore. We're just at, we're just trying to stay afloat. And that's when you know, like, oh, the love is gone. And I also tell people, like, when they're confused about jobs, relationships, I'm like, and if you made the wrong decision, go back. Then no one's like, there's no police that are policing your decisions of being like, oops, I messed up.

And sometimes when you give people the freedom to be like, you can go back, they leave. You are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Olin, former golf professional and the host of Welcome to the Party, your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour

like LPGA superstar Angel Yin. I really just sat myself down at the end of 2022 and I was like, look, either we make it or we quit. Expert tips to help improve your swing and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. The drinks were flowing. OK. They were like, torquing all over the place, vaping, they're shotgunning, they're pissing in the middle of the course. Women's golf is a wild ride, full of big personalities, remarkable athleticism, fierce

competition, and a generation of women hell-bent on shanking that glass ceiling. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Welcome to the Party, that's P-A-R-T-E-E on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III,

and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends, Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Each week, we'll sit down with inspiring figures like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter. And they're plus one, they'll ride or die, as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey. Listen to My Legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is My Legacy. Mi gente hermosa, Wilmer Valderrama. Yo soy Freddy Rodriguez, host of the new podcast Dos Amigos. In this series, we candidly reflect on our careers life art and everything in between each episode emanates from our very own speak easy And it features us talking about pivotal moments hilarious agnathotes, and then I said the word yes That's when I knew that's when I knew this might just work And invaluable collaborations that helped us become who we are today. That was one of the rare movies that I saw in the movie theater when I was a kid.

And then I got to work with them and tell them how much I loved it. Plus, the door stays open for perhaps a third amigo. Listen to Dos Amigos Thursdays on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, what's really great is that it sounds like you evaluate things as how you feel about them. And so I wonder what's your relationship like with wanting to be liked? I'm a people pleaser.

I mean, I think to be a comedian, like you want everyone to have like the best time ever and that brings me joy. I think I have to thank Reality TV. Because my Reality TV, my biggest fear was to be perceived Not who I was but when you're 26, you don't know you Like I remember I'd go into social situations and I put a lot of pressure on myself to be like I want everyone to think I'm really funny and I'm really nice and I'm and I care about them and I'm smart and it's like putting so much I'm gonna pressure on myself every time I'd interact, I wanted to be control of everything.

I was like a type A student and achiever. And reality TV, you give up control. My first two seasons were good. My third season, I experienced what people tell you could happen, which is like you lose the narrative and they're not showing your perspective anymore. They're showing it through like other lenses. And it was my biggest fear to be misunderstood.

Like there's one thing for tennis or comedy, for people to be like, I don't like how she played, I don't like her jokes, but to be perceived based on like things that didn't actually happen was very painful for me. And I think I realized I also didn't have the heart for it. Like I was too sensitive to be in a show that was about kind of like, who's good, who's bad, who we're rooting for, like WWE type stuff. Where I was like, it really is like sports for women of being like, let's who we're gonna root for this

season, who actually sucks that we didn't know. And that energy was, I was not good with it. And I got fired. And at the time I was like, I got a talk show from it. And I was like, you just fucked up your chance. And also I was confused because I was like, I was engaging with everything. I was responding to everything. I did everything everyone wanted me to do.

So the math wasn't math thing. My like tennis mind of like, I worked hard'm doing well and I got fired if I didn't get fired. I wouldn't have a Netflix special I also would probably not be in a healthy marriage and I also would probably Not feel like myself So if I also want to got fired I laugh But um, ooh, I got a fire me. And I think it goes back to that rebirth thing. I realized the one thing I can control

that I'm so proud of myself is that I can handle adversity. The stuff I went through with tennis, I went through some bad stuff like yips, like Simone Biles type stuff, not to that level obviously, but I will bounce back and I don't care what people try to do to me or what happens to me, the cream will rise. I'm kind of annoying. We're like, I'm all about justice and I want everything to be in the right place and for

everyone to be treated right. That's not life. But you're not a victim. You have to, again, have the perspective of like, just because I failed, just because I got fired, that doesn't have to define you. So I kind of got this silly idea where I was like, okay, I got fired from a reality TV show and didn't feel like I was shown to be

who I was authentically. What if I became like the biggest comedian I could be? Which again, not a normal thought someone should have. But that's, I always think big. Like that's how I've always thought. I really like put the head down and was so motivated by the firing. Like I wouldn't be here if I wasn't fired.

And it wasn't like I'll f**k these people. It was like, I hear you, I see you, let's find a new outlet even I remember after tennis when I just discovered comedy I felt like a horse that was like walking around lost and then finally they put me in my lane and I was like I found my lane so I just wanted to find my lane and then I could go and finding your lane is very fun because you're just like self-exploratory. I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special

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Over Zoom. Really? Well, it was during COVID. I think it was kind of like, you're not coming back. And I think it's hard because with a lot of people, your whole thing is about your story, which is like the ebbs and flows of evolving. And Bravo's very like, we'll break you down,

we'll build you back up. So they kind of were like, and this is the end for you. So then it was like really in my court to be, no, pun intended, but to be like, where do I take this from here? And I learned a lot about like production, reality and unscripted stuff that definitely helped me like do fun stuff and will help me do fun stuff later in my career. Wow.

Yeah. And how many people on this Zoom? I think it was me and two people. Okay, okay. Yeah. So it's quite intimate. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was, and it's also, you're getting fired for like being you. So it was pretty hurtful. Did you cry? Yeah. Yeah, it was... And it's also... You're getting fired for like, being you. So it was pretty hurtful. Did you cry? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And also you felt like you lost all the friends who the show was about. It basically was like no one wants to be friends with you anymore. Looking back, it was such a blessing and people kept telling that to me.

They were like, you're so lucky. This is for a reason. And don't you hate that when you're going through it? It's the worst when you're in there. Yes, this is for a reason. And don't you hate that when you're going through it? It's the worst when you're in there. Yes, this is for a reason. And I'm like, I need to make money. Like I lost both my jobs. Like I was on a talk show too. And I was just like, I have nothing.

And I have a guy who I'm engaged to, who in my head was like, why would he want to be with me when I'm a failure? Because whenever I used to win and do well, people loved me more. So this was a really like pivotal moment of like I had to love myself and believe in myself because like no one was going to fix it. Yeah. What's the difference between self-confidence and self-worth? And how did you work on the latter?

I think I realized that my power is how I deal with adversity. It's not avoiding adversity. I think for people who deal with that in relationships, I realized like when you marry someone you're dating someone You're dealing with their life, which is full of ups and downs. So when someone's with you It's not about being perfect and an easygoing and cool girl like that's what I wanted to be but like realistically I just got fired and You're finding someone who's gonna be with you through the highs and lows and no one's life is perfect and no one's relationship is going to be perfect.

Who's going to be in the trenches with you? And like I found my person to be in the trenches with me. How did you stop yourself from letting any bitterness or revenge mindset creep in? I do want to say I fully do have a revenge mindset. But my revenge is never to hurt people. They're already hurt. They're hurting you. Obviously, they're hurt if they try to hurt you. It's like the classic quote, but like you being mad at them is just like you adding

venom to yourself. And they clearly don't give a fuck about you because they hurt you. I realized that people's hate towards me was because they saw something in me, and I almost took it as a compliment. Honestly, getting fired, there's some star power to it. Like, there's a, and I'm not telling everyone, you know, get fired because you'll find your purpose,

but it's like, I listened. I wasn't like trying to undo the past. I was like, I can't change what happened. I can only change going forward. And I think great athletes are like that. Like you make a mistake and instead of harping on the mistake, that's not gonna help you in this next point.

And I dealt with a lot of depression, a lot of, you know, questioning why, why, why me. I wasn't just like completely, you know, strong out of it. But I do think I have a lot of gratitude now. I even like, I went to some like hotel recently and someone was complaining about like how the hotel sucked or whatever or something happened. And I was like, I remember when no one would have even booked me to be able to stay at this hotel to perform.

Absolutely. So the lows actually have given me the mindset for success. But also the right seeds planted in those lows. Because in one sense, that's what I was getting at. That if you had planted it out of this bitterness, I'm going to show you, you know, you'll realize how great I am. When you do it from that perspective, which is natural by the way. I'm not even judging anyone who has that intention.

It's just that if that's the seed you plant, then even if you make it to that hotel, or make it to that podium, or make it to a Netflix special, you will never go sleep happy. Like it's just not possible. Yeah, that's why I meant by like they never liked you, they're not going to like you.

Totally, yeah. Like everyone's dealing with their shit. But I do have to say I don't forgive people. I'm not going to be friends. Like I learn from situations, but I also feel like my particular situation, like I was on a show about friends getting drunk and starting fights with each other,

and I wasn't fitting in and people kind of turned on me. And I was like, that's actually a compliment that like you weren't thriving in that environment. The friends that I've been able to make recently, I found the most smart, powerful, inspiring people. Ali Reisman, has she been on this pod? You have to have her on. She's an incredible gymnast,

who was the captain of the Olympic team. Was like, hey, I love your special, I'd love to get coffee. And I was sitting there talking to this girl, feeling so lucky that I can even like understand how her brain works and be connecting with her. Again, you go back and you're like, thank God I got kicked out of where I didn't belong. Yeah, you reminded me of a commencement speech that Federer just gave and he was talking about... Okay, I love him.

He was talking about how he's only won 80% of games in his career and he's only won just over 50% of points in those games. Yes. And so he was like, I have to get so used to losing a point. I always say as a tennis player, to win 6-4-6-4, you lose 40% of the points. Exactly. And I do think that tennis mentality helped me, like when something bad would happen, I'd be like, yeah, that's part of the ride. And I also do love storytelling.

That's why like this pod is so fun for me. I love when bad things happen, because I am that person that's like, I can't wait to go on a podcast one day and be like, I was fired and sad, and then I rose from the ashes. And I do think people connect with me because they see like,

okay, if she can do it, I can do it. And that's what I want people to feel. Because it's, it really is just your mentality. When you get up in the morning, you're just like, I'm not going to let that past pain define me. When you're putting it into comedy, where's all the content coming from? The storytelling?

Well, the funny thing about comedy is I definitely never wanted to be a stand-up comedian. And I think it was a blessing in a way that I very have my own distinct voice and way I am on stage. I wasn't ever trying to copy anyone else. I didn't even think I was going to get a Netflix special. So when I did, I was kind of just like, cool.

And then I've been joking. I was like, what do you do next? Do another Netflix special? How many Netflix specials does a person need? But it's been an interesting moment creatively, because with a stand up, after you do your hour, the material's burned, they call it. So unlike a singer who can like, you write a great hit

and you could do it forever. My my hit is like my great hit. I love my like gun joke or my queef joke. I can't do that anymore. So now I'm doing these new material shows where it's basically like watching your favorite athletes start as a beginner. So I'm literally on stage being like, cankles are cankles funny? Do we like cankles? And I've had some insecurities being like, this is difficult. I went from a tried and tested like hour that I know every single moment what will happen

and the laughs I'll get to being just like feeling naked on stage. And my husband has been inspiring because he's like, you don't even know like the special is going to be better than the last one. So I think with comedy, I like that it keeps me on my toes. It keeps me, I don't feel completely like I got this all the time. And I think with comedy, I like that it keeps me on my toes. It keeps me, I don't feel completely like I got this all the time. And I think it keeps me motivated because I feel so, I'm constantly learning about myself and challenging myself. Last week I even, I went on stage just with a bunch of papers, which I've never done before and just was like, let's see what happens. So look, maybe I'm sick in the head as we're talking it out and I'm saying it out loud,

but I like to put myself in uncomfortable positions and see how I can get out of it. I think that's what crowd work is, which is something that I've taken accustomed to. I actually think it's the only mindset. Like, if you know what you're going to do every month, you'll end up living the same year again and again and again. And part of me is jealous of those people. I do have to say, there are maybe some like neurotypical people that are like, I want to just like, I want to go to work,

I want to enjoy my friends, I want to go home, and I'm so thankful for this life. And I'm envious of those people. Like, I wish that could... Are you actually? Well, I think thatvious of those people. I think that they are fulfilled. And then there's people like me who need some crazy shit to feel alive all the time.

And I definitely am neurodivergent. I'm realizing now I do think could like know what crowd work I'm going to do next and I'm also going to do a call back to this joke. Like I have a bazillion tabs open in my head and I need constant dopamine hits. But it's made me a creative and a performer. So I think like both ways of life, like you know you see a kid and you're like, this kid is happy chilling. And you see a kid that's just running around being chaotic and you're like, they're just different vibes. Totally, totally, chilling. And you see a kid that's just running around being chaotic and you're like, they're just different vibes.

Totally, totally, yeah. And I feel like everyone's needing to balance out by doing the other. Yes. Someone who lives a crazy life like you can find more joy from relationships and the simple things. And someone who's living a more, as you called it,

a neurotypical life also needs to find new goals and things to grow towards. Because both end up feeling out of balance and out of sync. Are you good at vacationing? I really enjoy it. I wouldn't say I'm good at it in the sense of, I don't like, I could go years

and probably did in the beginning and then I got a bit better at it and then probably got bad at it again. I'm okay at it, I'd say. I've recently like this summer after the special, I was like, take some time. And like you wake up and you're like, what are we doing? Oh, I'm good at it, I'd say. I've recently, like this summer after the special, I was like, take some time. And like you wake up and you're like, what are we doing? Oh, I'm good at that.

Oh, I'm good at that. Once I'm there, I'm good. Once you're there, you're good. I have, I find with vacationing or like giving yourself breaks, especially as an entrepreneur, because it's always like when you're not working, you're just not like making money or whatever, you'll be like, okay, let's relax.

And then it takes you like four days to relax. Then you're finally relaxed and it's like, we got to go back home. And you're like, oh no. So yeah, I'm really lucky. I can like lock into any mode that I'm in immediately. Well, you meditate more than me. Correct, but finding the time to get away,

that's what I was thinking. I was like, you have to prioritize that. I'm not, I'm okay at that. Like sometimes I'm good at planning it out. Sometimes I'm not. I'm good at starting my year off, right? Like I always make sure that I start my year off in India, back at the monastery, taking time out. And I've done that every year religiously for the past seven years,

whatever it is, maybe even more now. And that to me is like, I'm good at doing that. I heard that Dua Lipa always takes July and August off. I also could have started a rumor there, but I heard that. And I was like, Dua Lipa is takes July and August off. I also could have started a rumor there, but I heard that. And I was like, Dua Lipa is always like crushing it. And part of me like loved that. Not that it's like European or something. But I'm realizing in this life that like no one's going to make you take a break.

And you actually have to have the self-love. Even if you think you don't need it, to be like, you do need to have balance. And I'm a workaholic and I love the highs of it, but I've also been working on like, also when you're relaxing, like, don't be mean to yourself. Don't spend the whole day relaxing being like, you should have gone to Pilates. So it's you, yeah, creating the right narrative in your head of like, that you're in the right space at the right time is kind of what I've been working on. Yeah. Now that you've started a crazy rumor about Dua Lipa.

Now you're interested. You're like, okay. No, I was going to ask you, what's the craziest rumor you've ever heard about yourself? I mean, honestly, the biggest rumors were like stuff that would happen on reality TV. Cause like there would be scenes where the back of my head would say something to someone. And I was like, that was not what the response was. So it was like living with like moments that just didn't happen, that you had to kind of just like own. I didn't really own it.

I would be like, no, it didn't happen. I was like, shut up, stupid. But I think my support system has been really great. And I only took it for granted or I just, I have very small support system has been really great. And I, I like took it for granted, or I just, I have very small support system, so I never thought that I was like special in any way, but now I'm realizing like it really is quality over quantity, like I always have that one best friend,

my mom and my dad, my brother, and my husband, maybe a couple other friends depending on the time. And I thought like, you're kind of a lonely bitch. But then these people are so special that I can call it anytime. And they get me so well that I'm realizing more like, oh, they got me through that. Like I could not have done it alone. My poor mom, the calls she has to take. That's so wonderful to hear though.

And it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think as things grow also, you realize the different values of your community as well. As you get older, you realize the value that they play in different... You go through more, you grow through more. And so you rely on them for more things. Like when you're a kid, maybe they helped you move to college or maybe they, you know, it's things like that.

Whereas when you grow up, you're like, no, I just called you and cried. And I remember for me, it was like my mom saying something. I was going through a tough time and I don't really call my mom for advice. I never have. She's always been loving and supportive. It's very guy of you. Like my brother will call my mom like once a month

and I call her, I'm like, I'm eating chicken nuggets. Yeah, exactly. That's my wife. Like my wife will call her mom like six times a day. And I never, I literally call my mom once a month. And I remember my mom just like once, like we were on a call and I didn't tell her things were hard, but obviously she's my mom, she can sense that things were hard.

This was like seven, eight years ago. And she just said like one of the most motivational things to me ever. And she never does that. So like I'm not used to that from her. And it was about me and about something in my past, I'll tell you off camera later. And it was just one of those things that I was like, no way, like I didn't even know we had that relationship.

Or you just gave me like a really big gift in my, I was just turning 30 maybe, like at that time. And I couldn't believe that she said that to me then. And so I would never have realized that if I wasn't going through that point in my life and she didn't sense it. So I didn't see the she said that to me then. And so, I would never have realized that if I wasn't going through that point in my life. Yes. And she didn't sense it. So I didn't see the value my mom could offer me.

It's so funny how heavy a mom's words could be. So heavy. Like I remember I was in like tennis craziness and I called my mom and I just was like just dark. And my mom was like, you're not being yourself. And I was like, what do you even mean? And she's like, you're a lighthearted, funny, silly, like, goofy girl. Like, that's who Hannah is.

Like, I don't know who this is right now, but I'm just, you know, trying to figure out who I am. It's an 18-year-old. And looking back, I'm like, she's so right that I was turning into someone I wasn't because I was just forcing things. I also think with friendships and relationships in your 30s you start being like, I don't have time to force things.

And also why would I force anything? Like me and you for example, like I feel like if I was like, I need Jay to like me, and like was obsessed with like connecting with you, who knows if that would have worked. But like we naturally hit it off and we have a friendship where like, I feel like sometimes people will be like,

if I ask them to get coffee and I do this, I live my life kind of like, put your energy out there and the right energies will come back. Three authentic relationships are better than thousands of people that you're like, they wouldn't be there for me when I need to bury a body. Yeah, I'm still trying to get you to like me. I was trying and I do message you. No, I do think it's just, there's vibes, there's good vibes.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. And I couldn't agree with you more. There isn't, I think tactics and hacks and things like that get you very, don that get you very... don't get you very far with humans. Like they work on things, they work on tools, they work on strategy and projects and things like that, but they don't really work well with people. I also find with dating, I used to be like,

if I construct the perfect text message, he's going to realize that I'm f***ing cool. I was so into... I'd get nervous and be like, if I say this or like, I wasn't funny enough. And looking back, you're like, the emoji or not emoji did not change. Like, it's funny because my husband, he met me when I was in the middle

of this like insane reality TV time, which arguably like, I was crying more than I've ever cried before. Like, that's not what it's like being with me. I have other issues, but crying was not a thing. So talk about someone loving you at your worst. It's almost like he saw me as an open wound, and he loved me through that.

So I joke now, I'm like, first date, get in a fight. Start crying, tell him all your trauma, and if he can't f*** with it, be on to the next one. Why are we pretending to be perfect for three years and then realizing you hate them? I really thought that like if I was perfect, perfect things would happen to me and that's just not the game. So we've talked so much about like your confidence in these spaces.

How did it apply to your love life? Like what was that like in relationship and dating? Were you as analytical, were you able to make sense of stuff? Or in that area were you like... Oh my god, it's so funny how everything's so similar. I was like tennis where like, even when I was like, could not hit a serve, I had this confidence that I could still win. And I did win a lot.

But like I always, I joke like, I always think everyone loves me. Like I'm, I'll have friends, I'll walk into a room, like I have reverse-bi dysmorphia, like I think everyone's attracted to me. And, but I just had this confidence that no matter what was going on, like that I'll fall in love and I'll have the most amazing relationship

and everyone's attracted to me and wants to be with me. And that was just what I put into the world. But I also had an ego with it where like, I realized that I would go after emotionally unavailable guys because I wasn't ready. I was like, no one's rejecting me. Like, no one's rejecting me. And I'd go after like really good-looking men

who I didn't respect emotionally so that if it didn't work out, I'd be like, he's f***ing stupid. Like, obviously I didn't like him. Or like, they wouldn't make me laugh. Or like, I liked having hot men around me. And it is kind of... I always like male dominate spaces.

I'm wearing a tie right now. But I kind of like... I thought it was powerful to be like a girl that like, could date a lot of hot guys. It's like, I didn't want to be fully seen either. And I finally, like, my husband is a guy who very good-looking, but I really respect emotionally and he sees me and he calls me out on stuff and is

Okay with all the things that come with me. And it was like scary and vulnerable, but it also felt really safe. Because I think it was with the right person. I have been in relationships where I felt confident like this guy on paper is like everything someone would want. Like girls probably look and go like, oh yeah, he's great. But I didn't feel like myself. And I'm proud of myself.

I got out of a relationship when I was younger that like other people were like, why would you leave that guy? But because when I was alone at night, I didn't feel like I was able to be myself with him. And I got out of it. And I realized your partner, if they're not an asset, I don't mean it like we have to make everything great

and life happy. No, if they're not enhancing and supporting you and who you are, there's no reason to be in a relationship. Yeah. Someone said something kind of powerful that the person you're with directly reflects how much you love yourself. Even though I was like dating and confident, I wasn't like really putting myself out there fully because I didn't know if someone really saw me. They would be scary if they didn't love me.

So I was like, well, I don't love them. I don't need them. But I honestly think having a bad relationship that hurts your mental health is so nice because bear with me. You start realizing I don't want to be in a relationship just to be in a relationship. It's too risky. If someone is bringing me down,

like I'd really, really rather be single 100% of the time. So once I got in that mentality, like in my late 20s, when the right guy finally came, I knew it because I wasn't just dating to date. Hey, y'all, it's your girl, Cheeky's, and I'm back with a brand new season of your favorite podcast, Cheeky's and Chill. I'll be sharing even more personal stories with you guys.

And I know a lot of people are gonna attack me. Why are you gonna go visit your dad? Your mom wouldn't be okay with it. I'm gonna tell you guys right now, I know my mother. And I know my mom had a very forgiving heart. That is my story on plastic surgery. This is my truth. I think the last time I cried like that was when I lost my mom.

Like that, like yelling. I was like, no. I was like, oh, and I thought, what did I do wrong? And as always, you'll get my exclusive take on topics like love, personal growth, health, family ties, and more. And don't forget, I'll also be dishing out my best advice to you on episodes of Dear Cheekies. So my fiance and I have been together for 10 years.

In the first two years of being together, I find out he is cheating on me not only with women, but also with men. What should I do? Okay, where do I start? That's not love. He doesn't love you enough because if he loved you, he'd be faithful. It's going to be an exciting year and I hope that you can join me. Listen to Cheekies and Chill, Season 4, as part of the My Kultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I started to live a double life when I was a teenager. Responsible and driven, and wild and out of control. My head is pounding. I'm confused. I don't know why I'm in jail. It's hard to understand what hope is when you're trapped in a cycle of addiction. Addiction took me to the darkest places. I had an AK-47 pointed at my head.

But one night, a new door opened, and I made it into the rooms of recovery. The path would have roadblocks and detours, stalls, and relapses. But when I was feeling the most lost, I found hope with community, and I made my way back. This season, join me on my journey through addiction and recovery. A story told in 12 steps. Listen to Krems as part of the Michael Lura Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dr. Joy here. You may know me from Therapy for Black Girls, where we're celebrating 400 episodes of the podcast. That's a whole lot of girl me too moments. For years, we've had deep, thoughtful and inspiring conversations about black women's mental health. And now we're celebrating this milestone in a big way. In this special episode, Peloton yogi Chelsea Jackson Roberts shares how yoga has taught her to stay grounded and present while balancing motherhood and self-care. I can't control my partner.

I can't control my child. I can't control anyone outside the way that I govern myself in this world. And the celebration doesn't stop there. We'll continue this milestone with Dr. Lauren Mims, who joins me to discuss the powerful yet sometimes challenging transition from girlhood to womanhood for Black fans. Together, we explore how we navigate this transformative journey with strength and grace. Black girlhood is giggling, it's sisterhood, but it is also, I think, focusing on learning how to cope with really difficult things that are happening.

With insights like these, this 400th episode celebration is one for the books. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I feel like so many of the people I know right now are just struggling with dating. Like, I'm sure you have loads of single friends too. Or, yeah, right, you're just like, Jay, can you introduce me to someone? Or, I don't know how to meet someone, I'm on all the apps, I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

And it feels like it's just the Wild Wild West for people. Like, it's so hard. At least that's how it seems. I know. My advice, I really do joke about it, that like, first date, if you go back to his apartment, like hide his remote and see what his true character is. Like, because I really feel, especially in LA, everyone's hot.

And I'm like, I could get along with a hot person for months before I like realize what's going on. And I think life is so short. It's like, you can convince yourself that so many people are great for you, but like stop lying to yourself and immediately just be like, do you feel like yourself with them? And is it someone that you want to sit on the couch with for hours? Let's stop with the Instagram bullshit. Let's stop with how it looks aesthetically and find someone that's good for your soul.

Because your relationship is like a mirror where like, it's a voice that you have to listen to for the rest of your life. Make sure that voice is someone you want to talk to and like they create the vibe of your life. I love quitting, I love getting out of stuff. If you're not with the right person, like there is a right person there. Get out. No, but I think you're so right that the halo effect is so strong. Like we can stay with someone off of like the tiniest thing.

Like people will stay in a relationship because someone's hot, because someone makes lots of money, because someone's really good at one thing. Yes. And it's so easy to do that because the halo effect is so powerful. You were saying in a very sincere way, like do you want to listen to their voice for the rest of your life? Yeah.

And I was just thinking of someone going to me, I really like the sound of his voice. And it's like you're just attracted to the sound of someone's voice, but not for the rest of your life. And I was just thinking of someone going to me, I really like the sound of his voice. And it's like, you're just attracted to the sound of someone's voice, but not really the content of what they're saying or who they are and what you're talking about, someone's soul. And it's so hard for our brains to detach from that,

which is pleasurable to that, which is actually meaningful. Oh my God, you're so right. I loved having a crush. I would make it up. He would just have to show like a little bit. And I was like, I love this. I want to wake up with that high.

Like, is he going to text me? And then you finally like meet him and you're like, oh my God, this is not it. It took me a while. I would really just be like, as long as he's tall, I could figure this out. And then I remember feeling like I was assigning my soul to the devil. I was like, you deserve better. And I do think like you love yourself. The person you're with is showing how much you love yourself.

You deserve the best. Also, as someone who's just got married, like, I do have to say, when you're growing up, you're like, who's my soulmate? Who's my soulmate? And not to be a Debbie Downer, I believe there are soulmates. I don't think at all that there's one person. I really think of marriage as, like, a best friend in that it's very similar to friendships. You know, when you meet someone, like, I'll think of marriage as like a best friend in that it's very similar to friendships. You know when you meet someone, like I'll meet a girl, and immediately I'm

like where the f*** has this bitch been all my life? She's amazing, I'm obsessed with her. And you'll have a couple of those kind of relationships in your life and that's how I feel with men as well, romantic relationships. So it's like the person I'm with right now, he's so right for me, he's amazing. I do think there's other people in the world that potentially I could have married and had that I haven't met. So it's like you create your own adventure and you find the person that's right for you in that moment. People will be mad like, why did I marry this guy? And I'm like, maybe he was right for you in 1997 or whatever happened. And he was perfect for you in that time.

So stop putting so much pressure on this like one insane thing. It's like no, it's vibes and it's like finding your best friend. And you'll have a lot of beautiful relationships in your life. What were some of the surprising challenges that came up in marriage that maybe you didn't expect? I do have to say, my husband has a joke. He's a comedian too. He actually has a really good bit about mindfulness that I feel like you would like.

Oh I love it. I'll send it to you. Yeah, please do. It's just about how mindfulness, he jokes about back then, it was just like watching precipitation go down. He's like, you can't even sit and take a shit without like scrolling. Like mindfulness used to just be existing. I butchered that bit, but it's about that.

You're now doing his bit. I'm doing his bit. But he has this joke about marriage, how he'll tell people, like, we don't spend a lot of time together, because I'm on the road a lot, he's on the road. And how people, like, 35 and under are like, oh, that must be really hard. But that people 35 and over are like, you guys are going to make it.

So, like, we never get into that like roommate situation where you start feeling like, oh this is just a roommate that I have that lives with me. It stays kind of exciting because we don't have that routine. Our careers are very kind of crazy and we're really good at communicating. I think the funny thing about marriage is that dating is a lot of chasing.

There's a lot of like, are we gonna get engaged? Are we gonna get married? What is this gonna be? And then you become it. It reminds me of life where like, if you don't love the journey, there's no point to it. And you realize like, oh, this isn't about getting the ring. Like this is just about finding someone I wanna be with.

With him, it's like, we're married. we're not, I'm not playing any more games. The games are over. And I liked kind of being like, what's going to happen? And there's no game playing. That's your person. Yeah. I remember reading a study that talked about how what we really get addicted to at the beginning of a relationship is stress and excitement.

So the excitement of, I just texted them, the stress of, will they text me back? The excitement of like, I just told all my friends about this guy, the stress of, I don't know if he's talking about me to his friends. And so that keeps you, it's what you're saying, the game keeps you going. And then all of a sudden, when you actually end up with someone, then it's just peaceful. And then everyone goes, wait a minute, there's no excitement anymore.

It's like, no, no, no, you were just addicted to stress. Yes. And I do have to say the peacefulness of marriage has been really nice for me in terms of like, dating actually was really time consuming and stressful. So I feel like I'm able to focus more on my career and being myself. I used to like not be able to enjoy friends sometimes because I'm sitting there thinking about a guy. We're at dinner and I'm just like, I don't really care about this

because like so and so hasn't texted me back. Where now I have this like comfort of like, I have my person who's my sidekick and there for me and I can actually be myself more, which has been really nice. When I was single, I was boy crazy and I was like putting it on a pedestal. So I've done that and been that.

And I think once you realize you just, you don't want to force it. My ultimate dating tip is that do the things you love and it'll attract people who will love you. Where it's, I tell people like, I know this is corny, but like, if you like volleyball, join a volleyball league. You can't just like sit around hoping like be you and they will come.

It's the baseball field as they say. If you build it, they will come. For men, I think it's similar. Like all the most successful men that I've spoken to have all said that their success came when they committed to one woman. And then they actually had time and energy to build everything else.

That is exhausting. Rather than the exhaustion of thinking that it was cool to date multiple women or have affairs or whatever they thought it was when they were growing up. The stress that again they're addicted to. Exactly. But I do have to say to be a little positive, my parents have a really beautiful relationship and like they still like they flirt, they love each other.

Of course. They make each other laugh. And in my relationship like I still, my friend makes fun of me, but I still get butterflies with him. I do have it, it's not, we're two years in, it's early, but I found someone who keeps me excited, so that's possible. It's not like, oh, you meet someone

and then you're just like, yay, we're bored. No, I found someone who he definitely is emotionally, we say our love language is laughter. So we're making fun of each other and it's like we're constantly playing the game of how can we make each other laugh. Absolutely, yeah. We banter all day, me and my wife. It's so important. When we're around... You guys have a really fun dynamic.

Laughter is our love language for sure too. It has to be. We always feel like when we're around new people or new couples, they're like, do you have issues with each other? I'm like, no, no, no, this is just who we are. Like, we're constantly bantering and that's our way of showing love to each other and it works for us. And I can also get really emotional, like when Radhie's traveling or whatever,

I literally be like, there's no light in the house. Like, I'm just like, I get fully like, I'm like, no, the house feels different. Like, it's not the same because I'm so used to just walking back there, seeing her, giving her a hug, whatever it is, even in the workday. And then when she's traveling, I'm like, no, where is she? But I love the idea of missing her. It works. Yes, I was going to say, it makes you not take for granted

them being there when you wake up. Yeah. And we also are very good at communicating, like, we'll be on the phone like all day, even if it's just like a two minute call to be like, this thing happened to me. It's just natural. And I joke like, be with some, your relationship is a conversation you have for the rest of your life. Like, do you want to have it? I saw like a random, probably a TikTok about how the person you marry is the person that's going to be with

you when like your parents pass away. Like who do you want to be with you in those hard times? It's not who do you want to be in the wedding photo with you. Mic drop. That's real. No, that's so real. That's the realest thing ever. It's, and then I wish, I wish more people would internalize that because that is exactly what it is.

And having, and I have a friend who was with his partner through the loss of her mom recently. And it was the hardest thing for her. And he was, he was the best partner that she could have had during that time. And she needed him. And I realized I needed my husband during my hard time. And I also think that trauma bonding is real.

Obviously trauma bonding can be bad, but like, I think we are so much powerful of a couple because early on we were dealing with so much adversity that now when something happens, like, we're so easily able to handle it. So when bad things happen to you when you're in a relationship, it's actually going to show you if you're in the right relationship, which is awesome. Yeah. I wanted to pivot slightly because I feel like

you pointed out your tie earlier, and I think this is a great outfit. Thank you. We have to talk about it, but you know, I feel like your whole career from day one, it's been operating in a male dominant, like even, I mean, this article headline was, so this one 15 years ago, New York Times,

she plays with boys and rivals don't like it. Yeah, it's crazy. And it's like, that's crazy, right? Yeah. And it's like 15 years ago, New York Times, she plays with boys and rivals don't like it. Yeah, it's crazy. That's crazy, right? And it's like 15 years ago, even now, like, comedy is definitely more male-dominated, has been. Yeah. And I think it's a really interesting thing, because I've been speaking to a lot of my male friends recently,

either married or have girlfriends, long-term relationships. And a lot of the women they're with feel really scared about pivoting careers, feel scared about changing their identity, about how they're perceived in their small community of friends. And these aren't people who are saying, I want to be really famous or I want to be really rich. It's just people thinking like, maybe I don't want to be a doctor. And maybe I do want to do this.

Or maybe I do want to be a yoga instructor or maybe I do want to do fitness or whatever it is. It's people making just genuine choices. And it's funny because when I talk to my guy friends about it, they've all done it. And it feels really easy for a guy to like somewhat change his perception and identity. Whereas for women, it feels a bit harder. If you had to say something to them, what would you say to women who are feeling like it's hard? Two things. One, I do think that women do have like they have the biological clock in their head where

they're like, okay, if I switch this and then I have kids at this time and then I'll be behind it. Like they're dealing with like that kind of stuff. I do have to do a shout out to my parents. I think I was raised a very, I don't know if it's unique, but I was raised very like genderless. Like I wore whatever clothes I wanted to wear. My dad really treated me, I wouldn't even say like a boy,

just like, I was never said I was pretty. It was about being hardworking. And I think growing up, as I got older and people started to be like, you're a girl, you're not allowed to do that. I was like, that's hilarious. And I'm going to show you that that's not true. And I think even like wearing the tie, I joked that like, it makes me feel,

people are like listening to me more, like I could say things I don't know about. And people are like, she sounds like she knows what she's talking about. And I love playing with the gender roles because I think they're socially constructed in a way. But I also do realize now that I'm 33 and some male comics, their careers are popping off like mine,

where I'm like, if I want to have a kid, I have to do it in the next couple years. How is that going to affect my trajectory? Where they cannot have, they don't give a fuck about that. And I'm used to being like, there's no difference between me and you. But then I realized like, oh shit, there is differences. But I like to be, in terms of like my feminism, people get confused thinking that feminists are like, men and women are equal. We're not.

We're very different. In so many beautiful ways. And like, we want equal opportunities, but we're going to go about it our own way. So it's finding like, what is your superpower as a woman. And I do think with women, this is good, women love to be over prepared and overqualified for things before we do it. I'm working on this new bit about like,

I say a lot of men are pilots because no woman would just wake up and be like, I could fly a plane. Like she would have to be like so good at flying planes to finally be like, I could fly a plane. Like she would have to be like so good at flying planes to finally be like, can I fly a plane? And then I joke like if women flew planes, we'd literally be lost all the time and like need snacks and stuff like that.

But anyway, it's multifaceted. So I think with women, stop waiting to be like overprepared to do something. Good advice. And I think so many men will just be like a little bit stop waiting to be over-prepared to do something. Good advice. And I think so many men will just be a little bit confident and be like, I'll figure it out, where women, like even at job interviews, I feel like men will be like,

I'll figure it out, where girls will have to be so over-prepared to even go into the interview. Like even when I was a sports reporter for a second, I had to show that I knew sports so fucking well to even get in the same room where like a dude, they just assume he knows it because it's like sports. So for girls, I'd say do things you're not qualified for. I was not qualified to get a Netflix special,

but I did it. If you looked at my resume, you'd say that girl should not have a Netflix special. But I did, and it was top five on Netflix. So I think for the girls, don't wait till you're overqualified, challenge yourself, and you gain confidence when you're able to do something

you didn't know you could do. That's great advice, I love that. And you're spot on, I remember looking at the studies a few years ago, and it literally said that if a guy looks at an application and he can do four out of 10 things, he'll apply. And if a girl looks at it and she can do eight out of 10 things, she won't apply.

I literally have chills. I have chills because that is so true. And women are so competent, but I guess they like, there's like a safety thing with it. I do have to say something about experience. They did a study somewhere. I swear this wasn't from TikTok, but a study about like doctors and how some new doctors were actually better

than doctors who had like 40 years of experience because they were actually like fresher, more open-minded, more up-to-date. And just how like, just because someone has more experience with you doesn't necessarily make them better than you at something. My advice for like job interviews is I would go in and be like, I don't have the years experience you want, but these are all the ideas I have of what I'm going to do. So don't wait till you're overqualified. Like do things you're underqualified for and see what you're capable of. So neat. That's great advice. I love that.

Thank you. I love that. Hannah, if your younger self was to look at you now, if you were to go meet her and she saw you having the Netflix special, doing what you're doing today, touring, what do you think she'd say? She wouldn't imagine it, but I feel like she'd be like, that's awesome.

I do think there was a time when I was like 24 and I was like in sales or something. And when my cousins said like, he was going to move to LA to be an actor, and I remember getting like a guttural jealousy that I was like not expecting. And looking back, I was like, why are you jealous that your cousins

move in LA to do acting? That's insane, you don't even want to be an actress. But deep, deep down I did. And I like didn't admit it to myself because it's like a lot to admit that you want to be an actress. But deep, deep down, I did. And I like, didn't admit it to myself, because it's like a lot to admit that you want to be a performer or want your dreams. It's scary to say what dreams you want. For anyone who's feeling like a jealousy towards something,

that's the universe telling you, you want to do it. And it's crazy that years later now, like I'm getting into acting and I tried so hard to fight it. But the universe was like, you're not doing that, you're not doing that until I got in this lane. I like to say, even though I've never surfed, it's like surfing. Where like when you find the right wave, it's going to feel easier and you're going to love

it. It's going to be fun. So like find your wave. That jealousy point is so clear. I feel like we're living at a time where it's so scary to share your dreams with someone else. Because you're scared it might remind them that they're not chasing theirs. And you're scared that they may react and tell you not to chase it because they don't believe in you. And the truth is they never had the strength to even give themselves the worth to chase theirs.

And then at the same time, you're scared of hearing it because it might remind you of the doubt you already have in your own abilities and the fears you already have and the insecurities you have that it's not possible for you. And it creates a really messy situation in society, I feel, because you have less people wanting to chase their dreams, less people rooting for them, and less people admitting what their dreams are.

And that feels like a really bad place to live where dreams are becoming buried deeper and deeper and deeper inside someone's soul and, you know, never get seen. Yes. And so if someone's feeling that and they're feeling that jealousy, which you so beautifully said could be a sign or a signal that that's what you want to do, what would you say is the first three steps someone should take if they think they have a crazy dream?

They may never have done it before. They don't really get it, but they feel that deep inside of them, it's always been there. I was always obsessed with successful people. Like I'd look at like Rihanna and I'm like, what is different about her than other people? And when you strip it down, it always starts with, she tried. Like 80% of it is starts with, she tried.

Like 80% of it is being like, I want to be this and I'm going to do it. And then I like to literally sit down and say something crazy like, okay, I want to get a Netflix special. Then I literally go backwards of all the things you have to do to get there. Okay, to get a Netflix special, you'd have to perform in front of someone at Netflix. How do you do that? You'd have to be selling out theaters. How do you do that? You'd have to get JFL. How do you get JFL? You'd have to go in the clubs. How do you get in the clubs? You'd have to start writing. How do you start writing by doing it tomorrow? So then it's like you literally have the path and it starts so small. And I think so many people don't want to go through the whole path. And then when you think about

it, it's like you just have to go do it. It's actually a lot less overwhelming when you think, I just have to write tomorrow, then be like, I have to get a Netflix special in two years. But realistically, I got a Netflix special in like five years of comedy, plus COVID, which is crazy. But it's because that wasn't the plan. It was just I wanted to be myself and have fun doing comedy.

Yeah. It's so funny. Seven years ago, I had a production company reach out to me from LA. They'd seen my first ever video that had gone viral, and they loved it. And they'd reached out and said, we want to build a TV show around you. And so I was like, I couldn't believe it because I'd just started creating content and had a viral video, and I thought that was cool enough as it was. So anyway, I like flew to LA on my own dime.

I didn't have a lot of money then. Sat down, had meetings, went back and forth, worked on creative on top of my day job, came back to pitch it again on my own dime. Like I was trying to figure out how I was going to do it. We pitched it and no one wanted the show, but I built loads of great relationships. And so I built all these great relationships

with streamers, production companies, became really good friends with some of them, but no one liked the show idea that we had. And it's so funny because I always look at that and I go, I'm so glad that an idea that I didn't fully own, that wasn't fully mine, got rejected, because then I built this. Even though at the time you probably were like...

I didn't make it! Yeah, at the time it was just like it felt like everything was going... Not everything was going wrong, but that was the big moment and I fumbled it somehow. Yeah. And like, right? I felt like I fumbled. Yeah, you just felt like you just dropped the ball. Yeah, you were like, that was my moment and that's it.

When life has like so many moments... One of my favorite things to tell people is, especially like video creation, people will be like, what if I told you the 15th video you post is going to go viral? How quickly would you post the next video? I kind of am obsessed with the gritty work. It was this concept, I think, like with tennis, people would say like, when are you practicing when people aren't watching? Are you practicing in the rain?

Like that type of like sport stuff. So I feel like, yeah, people will go and do the flashy stuff, but I think I get ahead because I'm doing this boring stuff that people don't want to do. So when you realize like, oh, someone got a Netflix special because they did the little tedious things that actually anyone could do, it's just people don't want to do it.

So it's like, put your head down and like, you can accomplish anything. Well said. Hannah, it has been such a joy talking to you. Honestly, I had so much fun. This is actually like the shit I love talking about. I mean, I'm like, we have to do this again. I feel like a motivational speaker,

but just through like quiff jokes. But like, I actually feel connected to you because I love, through my jokes, like inspiring people to see the world differently. Even though it's not that serious at all. But I do love like motivating and I love coaching and I love making people inspired in some way. Yeah, well I think everything you shared today has been super powerful. Thank you. I know my community is going to love it.

You bring it out of me. Oh no, I love it. You bring it out of me. Oh no, I love it. You brought it. You brought it. We end every episode with a final five. Oh yes. A fast five that we ask to all guests. So Hannah Berner, these are your fast five. Okay.

Question number one. What is the best advice you ever heard or received? Oh, I like this quote that says, even when it's raining, the hoop is always there. Not to give like more sports quotes. But it's basically like you're not seeing it, but like you're actually okay. And the world is your oyster. You just are... There's a cloud right now.

Yeah, I love that. Second question, what is the worst advice you ever had or received? Probably people who just think they know better than you about your own life. And like telling you based on their own experiences when you're completely different. To be like, I wouldn't do that if I were you. Well, you're not me, so. Question number three,

what is something you think people don't know about you? People probably would not be surprised they heard, but I'm like really messy. Like I have trouble keeping the home. Like, okay. And I, but I lean into it and I'll be like, I'm a creative. But like, some of my friends are so organized

and I'm so jealous of them. But like, I will always go to edit a video before putting the dishes away and then I will never put the dishes away. So I'm kind of like, don't have my shit together in the home. I love it. Question number Wait, what star sign are you? Leo, Sun, Virgo Moon, but clearly just about work, and Scorpio rising.

Okay. Oh, wow. You know all of it. Wow. All right. Question number four. Apart from your astrologer, was it, that you DM'd? Who's the last person you DM'd? It's probably Paige, my co-host, because after the show, we see all these funny videos from the shows, and I'll send it to her and be like, that was funny, that was cute. So we're just enjoying when we get home, looking at all the stories.

I love that. And question number five, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I think children should have more mental health in schools. Like I think it should be a law that kids should start learning more about like happiness, mindfulness, meditation. Like I don't know why that wouldn't be in the curriculum

when that's like the most important thing to having a happy life. Mental health by Hannah Berner. Yeah, mental health. At school. I love it. Get the kids, start them young. I love it. Everyone go and, start them young. I love it. Everyone go and watch We Ride at Dawn right now.

And if you don't follow Hannah already, make sure you follow her across Instagram, TikTok, and all of social media. Hannah, I'm so excited for us to continue our friendship. Yes, thank you for having me. Honestly, you are so much fun to talk to. If you ever want to just... I might have to open for you on one of your live...

Oh, oh my gosh. I would love... Oh my God, I would love that. You're so much fun to talk to if you ever want to just... I might have to open for you on one of your live... Oh my gosh! I would love... Oh my god, I would love that! You're so kind! The people would be like, okay! You're so kind to... Oh my gosh! That's an honor!

I love that! That's such a kind offer! That's so sweet! I'm going to take you off on that! We'll see if your team allows it. Yeah! It was up to Elena. She'll definitely allow it.

Had a burner, everyone. As you can tell, not only hilariously funny, you got so many great insights, thoughts, wisdom. I mean, you can drop the mic today, Hannah. I'm retiring. Amazing. And I really hope we get to hear you do more tennis commentary, more sport commentary, like all of it. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, I'm excited to see it.

I think I work for ESPN. Yeah, I love it. Hannah Berner, thank you so much. Thank you. So grateful. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future

self because truly extending your compassion to your future self because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life. I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own podcast I could listen to. You rang? This is Lexi Brown and Mariah Rose and we've got a new podcast, Full Circle. Every Wednesday, we're catching you up on what's going on in women's basketball. We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea.

Full Circle is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Full Circle on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mi gente hermosa, Wilmer Valderrama. Yo soy Freddy Rodriguez, host of the new podcast Dos Amigos. In this series, we candidly reflect on our careers, life, art, and everything in between. And each episode emanates from our very own Speak Easy, and it features us talking about

pivotal moments, hilarious agnitodes, and invaluable collaborations that helped us become who we are today. Listen to Dos Amigos Thursdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We all have a moment that splits us wide open. On my new podcast, Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, I'll sit down with trailblazers from sports, music, fashion, entertainment, and politics to explore their toughest moments and the incredible comebacks that followed.

Listen to Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris, an iHeart women's sports production on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.