On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Hasan Minhaj: ON How To Strategically Express Yourself & Take Criticism Positively

Episode Date: November 18, 2019

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Hasan Minhaj. Hasan is a first generation American, and is a comedian, actor, and the host and creator of the weekly comedy series Patriot Act. Hasan shares that he was fired from every previous job he’s ever had, and the value of relentlessly trying new things until you find work worth doing. He reminds us of the challenges that come with making great art and to always be specific with the message you want to share. Text Jay Shetty 310-997-4177 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Well, dude, I got fired pretty much every time that I had. So, you know, Safeway, Office Max, wherever I was working. And generally when I got fired, the manager would call me in and they'd be like, Hey, look, you're a nice enough guy, but we got to let you go. Like it just seems like you don't wanna be here. Yeah. And I remember like every time they would fire me, they'd be like, is there somewhere else you would rather be? Because you seem very disinterested here at Delta. And what would be your honest, and I would be like,

I'll tell you exactly where I wanna be. What's crazy is every time they would fire me, I actually did have the answer exactly what I'd wanna be doing and where I'd wanna be. Yeah, I wanted to be performing. I wanted to be doing stand up. Welcome back to on purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thank you so much for coming back every single week to listen, to learn, and to grow from

some of the most amazing minds in the world. And today's guest is definitely not gonna disappoint. He's absolutely awesome. His name is Hassan Minhaj, and he is a comedian and actor, the host and creator of the Amazing Netflix series, Patriot Act. And in 2019, he received and was named in the time 100s most influential people in the world.

And this is the audio introduction going in as well. His one hour Netflix comedy special homecoming king earned him a 2018 Peabody award. Husson joined the daily show with John Stewart as a correspondent and continued on after Trevor Nova tour. It took over as host and remained on the show through August 2018. He also spoke at the 2017 White House correspondence dinner. Husson, it is so awesome to have you here, man. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah. I had to do it with you here. All right. That was very flattering and touching because it's all true.

And I have to be honest with you, the first time I saw you live was when you came to LA last year at the eighth theater. And we didn't know each other then, but you're you're amazing. I thought you were absolutely brilliant. And that comes from someone who only moved to the US three years ago. So just catching up on politics. Oh wow. And and then I met you through our mutual friends, family, Lily, which was awesome, which was a much more intimate setting. Yeah. And I have to say, man, like you just have this captivating always on energy. Uh-huh. And I was just like fixated on everything you were saying. Yeah. I was like, I need

to have this guy on the podcast. I got very deep, very fast. I was asking like fixated on everything you were saying. Yeah. I was like, I need to have this guy on the podcast. I got very deep, very fast. I was asking a lot of philosophical questions and deep political geopolitical questions. And you got very intense. Absolutely, man. Yeah. But today I want to dive into your journey.

Sure. You finding your purpose. I want to go back to, you know, you're up bringing here as a first generation American. Yeah. And I want to talk a lot about, you know, what drives and motivates you? Because when I see you, I see you as an activist disguised as a comedian.

Oh, all right. That's how I see you. That's just my way. That's how I see you. But what drives and motivates Hassan? Um, I would say right now, the things that drive me the most are saying and doing the things that I did not believe was possible five, 10 or even 15 years ago.

That's what really gets me excited. Like when I choose an episode for Patriot Act, I just try to think about, can I be as real and as raw and as honest as I am with the homies on WhatsApp? Like that's what you're really trying to do as an artist to be like, can I be that raw? You always think about that, right? Like, there's like the persona that we have when we're meeting people and then there's eye message persona. Yeah.

That's a good one. Dude, if this gets leaked, I'm getting canceled. Yeah. But how do you be that just raw? And the point is it got to those points where it's like super difficult. Are you trying to, are you starting to find that really that's the, no, that's not it. Yeah, that's the challenge. That's the challenge to making great art.

So the topics that we've picked on the show were things that I, dude, I got threads on threads about, you know, US relationship with Saudi Arabia, the Indian elections. Like, there's just everything you've seen on the show is pretty much something that I've talked about with friends, you know, policing in America. These are like third rail issues that are very, very difficult to dive into and can be divisive, but to me, I find them to be the most rewarding. So, yeah, that's amazing. And where do you go on that spectrum of like, is this too risky?

Is this not how you pushing yourself? What is that process of pushing yourself in that direction? Because I think like you're saying so many people just shy away from stuff. Sure. You're hitting it head on. But tell us that process in your head of like, how far do I go? How do I push myself? How do I not settle for? Yeah. Yeah. Look, like the overtoned windows only so wide, right? And obviously, given everything that's happening in the world right now, certain political figures have stretched that over-ten window

to places where it's sometimes insane or crazy. To me, it's really about seeing how far can I stretch it constructively, and am I being argumentatively accurate? And this is where I lean on the news team and the writing team of bunches are our facts straight. And then after that, I kinda, you know, I throw up a prayer and I hope the man upstairs, you know, protects me and I think I certainly hope

the audience can, even if they disagree with me, can acknowledge just, he's trying. This is a good faith. You know what I do? Yeah, I get that. And look, like you're talking about the medium that we're in, we're looking at cameras is going to be on YouTube. There is a lot of media manipulation. So, you know, leaning it, leaning in for controversy over dialogue or leaning into just super hyperbole instead of being like really accurate. I think I've tried to be a good faith actor even when I'm doing a tough topic that people I know were going to disagree with me. Yeah, I feel that. I feel that. How do you prepare yourself for that potential backlash, or that potential criticism that naturally comes? And I know you've talked about

it before, but how are you like mentally prepared for it? Like pretty good. I love that because what you're saying is, hey, I'm gonna prepare and put my best foot forward. I'm gonna show you that I've done the research. Yeah, we've done the fact-taking. I'm not just trying to say something because it sounds good.

Yeah. So you've done all that. So that's kind of where your confidence comes from, but how do you prepare for the backlash? Or is that it? Look, I think I've just gotten better and better about it over time. Being at the daily show, I saw John deal with it head on. Then when Trevor became the host, I saw Trevor deal with it head on. Um, so, you know, I had court side seats to see really great people

being the eye of the storm. And so over time, things, I've just gotten better and better at it. And I've been able to take criticism, I think a little bit better now, because we've now established a body of work. So at some point, people might be upset that I'm attacking something that is sacred to them. But if you look at the 30 other topics that we've done,

people are totally cool with it. And the longer we do the show, you can clearly see that I don't have a specific agenda. I'm an equal opportunity person who's gonna go at whether it's a big politician, a political leader, or a corporate institution. there's a big politician, a political leader, or a corporate institution. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life.

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I think you do it really, really well. Honestly speaking, I think it's rare to find someone who can do it so effectively and articulately. So thank you for doing that, man. I appreciate it. I mean, that genuinely, I think it's awesome. Tell me about, I wanna go a bit into like, your father wanted you to go to law school.

Yes, right? Yes. Tell us about what would have happened in I wanna go a bit into like, your father wanted you to go to law school. Yes, right? Yes. Tell us about what would have happened in Hudson's life if he followed through on his father and parents' path and what they thought of what you ended up doing. Well dude, I got fired from every other job I had.

So like, you know, I worked at Safeway, I got fired. I worked at Safeway here too. The grocery store? Yeah. Not here on the East Coast. It's a far-fetched. I worked at Safeway too. You worked at Safeway, you went London? In England, yeah. In London. The grocery store. Yeah, not here on the East Coast. It's it's I wasn't safe way to you work that safe What London in England? Yeah in London. They have safe way that safe way

That's right when you said I was like what no I bag groceries at yeah, yeah, okay, crazy Yeah, yeah, there's there's a grocery store called safe way and they also used to have this thing called plastic bags And baggers would put groceries and plastic bags Yeah, I used to do that too. But yeah, sorry, Karen, you got five from every Joe. I got five from pretty much every job that I had. Yeah. So, you know, Safeway, Office Max, wherever I was working.

And generally, when I got fired, like the manager would call me in. And they would, they liked me. They'd be like, hey, look, us, and you're a nice enough guy. But we got to let you go. Like, it just seems like you don't want to be here. Yeah. And I remember like every time they would fire me, they'd be like, is there somewhere else

you would rather be? Because you seem very disinterested here at Delta. And what would be your honest? And I would be like, I could tell you exactly where I want to be. What's crazy is every time they would fire me, I actually did have the answer of exactly what I'd want to be doing and where I'd want to be. Yeah, I wanted to be performing. I wanted to be doing stand up, but I had to shift that night, you know.

So I'm very lucky, man. I'm lucky. Like, I'm extremely lucky that I knew what I wanted to do. Like I found something that I was passionate about. And was that the same intention that when you decided to study political science, were you that clear that you're like, I want to study this so that I can be factual and have history? And like, what was that intention like when you were setting yourself up? I mean, it's just like I was too dumb for pre-med.

And I just had a natural inclination for like, it's kind of politics, rhetoric, speech and debate. Like, those were my things that I was really into. And so where did that come from? speech and debate like those were my things that I was really into and so where did that come from? Well in high school I was a big sort of public speech and debate kid, right? I did public speaking and all that stuff and then um In terms of just politics my dad was actually pretty political and stuff like that

Yeah, yes, it was had a lot of opinions. There was a lot of sort of shouting at the TV. And he was one of the first people that I could kind of see, like looking at an issue, having a take or perspective, like cracking jokes. And I just kind of, you know, sometimes I try to think I'm trying to live out Najmi's legacy. I feel like I want to take that living room raw and do it on, you know on the biggest stage I possibly can.

That's beautiful, man. I love hearing that because I mean, it's so different. Yeah, I always jerk that I grew up and my parents' three options were the doctor, a lawyer, or a failure. Those are my three options growing up. And you think about that as well. Why do we get fascinated with certain things? And for me, it wasn't politics, but for me, it was like spirituality and philosophy.

Like that's what I got fascinated by. But how, who gets, like as a kid who gets into philosophy? I feel the same way about politics. Oh, come on. Don't, don't, don't, don't. When you're 10, your dad isn't being like, oh, this is meditations by Marcus Aurelias. You see, this is letters to Seneca.

You're not doing, you're playing Sega. No, you're not, you're not caring about that. No, my dad started to read a load of that when I was young Yeah, but as a 10 year old I refused to believe that you know, I wasn't as a 10 year old So you have it right. Yeah, you like football. Yeah proper football. Yeah, probably Real football. Thank you. Thank you so much real football. Yeah, it's real football Anyway, but spirituality became more and more relevant just because I started asking more and more questions And when I was looking for the answers that I was asking, like, you know, like, what about

things happen to really good people? Why am I losing people? Why do people die early? All of these kind of questions, I was finding it there. So for me, for me, that's kind of where it went. Now you grew up, or did you grow up as a Buddhist Christian? I grew up as a Hindu. So I grew up in a Hindu family.

And my practices now were like very universe where you'd find them in Hinduism and in Buddhism. So you'd up in a Hindu family. And my practices now were like very universe where you'd find them in Hinduism and in Buddhism. So you'd see them in multiple places. But I've really looked for, and my personal journey's been about looking for the universal aspects that everyone can connect with. Because for me, that's kind of what excites me about philosophy and spirituality. So I'm always looking for where we agree. There we go. There we go. But yeah, back to you. Back to you. you. One of the things I look at in your life, which I think you're so great at doing is, is introspecting. I see you do a lot on the show, you're always introspecting, you're always reflecting. How have you built that habit to be able to do that

regularly with your own beliefs? Because you don't sound like someone who's like, this is my belief and this is just the way it is. You sound like you think through your belief often and regularly. I feel that way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah belief and this is just the way it is. You sound like you think through your belief often and regularly, I feel that way. Yeah, yeah, and trying to question it. You know, there's this great documentary with the late comedian Gary Shanling and he talks about in this doc and, you know,

Judd Apatow directed and produced a new, it's really excellent, but he talked about the art form of comedy really being not a way to become more famous or to stand on stage and have people clap and applaud you and sort of give you validation, but it's an art form of self-exploration and to like figure things out.

Why do I believe what I believe? Why do I feel this way? And I think much like music, if you treat comedy like an art form, which I believe it is, it really is much like music or writing or poetry. It's an exploration of who you are as a person and why you do what you do. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting

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I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're gonna get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop! But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole

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seen change the most, like something that you hold true and then it's kind of evolved and you're like, oh wow, like I never thought I'd think that way about that. Is there anything like that? And take a moment, I know. No, I can't think about it. The deep one. Like off the top of my head. But there'll always be something that I'm sort of like

I'll currently be processing and then just trying to figure it out through my work. And yeah. Yeah. What are parts of your journey that no one sees like that? You know, parts of your journey, we all see like, you know, we see the shows, we see this incredible homecoming king, we see, you know, parts of it, we all see, like, you know, we see the shows, we see this incredible homecoming king, we see, you know, Patriot Act, we see the 2019 time, you know,

most 100 influential people, and that's an amazing honor, man. And you deserve it. And it's like, you see all of that. What's the parts that we haven't seen that you'd like people to be aware of into what it's taken? Like, what are the sacrifices, the missed points that we don't see? And I'm not asking you to be egotistic because I know you're not. But I want to hear that because I feel like it's so important for people to hear that.

The stuff that people don't see, I don't think a lot of times people see that how much, especially in a collaborative creative effort, you're really relying on a core group of people. There's like Jedi that I work with. And I would say it's Prashant, Steve Boto, Jim Margolis, the people that around me, all the writers, the news team, upstairs. We're in our production office, but upstairs, upstairs, that's where we're having a lot of these heated discussions and battles a little bit. And I don't think people see, they think that I'm just doing this off the top of the dome and like, no, no, no, I'm very much a studio rapper. I'm not a freestyle rapper. Like I go in and we really

try to tweak and finesse and just like really focus on every little detail. And I think that's what people, I think I wish more people knew, because I think because of Twitter and Instagram and social media, we live in a very much a hot take society. And we got to beat everybody to the next hot take. And I wish, I don't know how both of these things happen where you have like a hyper reactive society. How do you get people to also see the beauty and like introspection and finessing and refining what you're working on? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Because don't you find it kind of like don't you ever feel guilty kind of doing what you're doing where you're trying to make spirituality

go viral, but like the whole thing with spirituality is a little bit of disconnecting from the likes and the subscribe button. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely the same thing I feel with Comerson art. No, I didn't of itself, you know, when you put commerce into it, it gets a little ugly. Yes. Yes. I agree I agree and it's the paradox that I find interesting to navigate Like I like that paradox like I find interesting to navigate. Like I like that paradox. Like I like the oxymoron of like, how does this? How do you balance these two things? Because I'm like, if I was just going to go and sit on a mountain top and be spiritual, I think overall I'd be like, but I need to give this to someone or I'd get bored or it wouldn't even, even the revelation wouldn't go as deep. Because I feel like there's so much in experimenting with it

And if I was just on the other side of like oh, yeah, let's just go get likes and let's go get followers Then it's like that's definitely we both know that doesn't satisfy you I'm just kind of like that paradox and I feel like that's what keeps me on my edge God it that I'm walking that fine Correct, and I'm always one step away from my foot falling into either side and I enjoy that because I think it keeps me in the middle. But that's just kind of like my personal process of enjoying things that don't quite fit. Yeah.

And but I think that's a really valuable point. And I love hearing you say that because I think what you're encouraging is also that I think we live in a world today where it's always about growing yourself. And what you're actually saying that you're getting more from collaborating, debating, discussing, breaking it down behind the scenes. And often, that's happening off camera for you,

but in most of our lives, we're not even doing that. Most of our lives are like, let me build my own platform. Really? Well, yeah, I just feel like for a lot of people who are trying to build their own platform, it's not necessarily like, let's all collaborate and grow. So I saw comedians do this really well.

I remember a lot of my friends who were comedians on Instagram and YouTube, they all got together and they collaborated and their brands just grew. But a lot of people just try to grow their lane and their brand without the collaboration and they didn't grow. And so it's nice to hear you give a shout out to everyone that you're working. Yeah, man, they're incredible. Yeah. And I certainly hope much the way John Stewart opened this door and we all bear his fingerprints. I hope maybe one day I can hopefully do that for other people too.

What was the best thing you learned from observing John Stewart? Like, what was that one moment where you're just like, this, always every day? He's not a note guy. Like, I always wanted Jewish Yoda to give me these notes. Like, tell me what to do. Like, I just want you to tell me how to be funny.

He kind of was like master Shifu. Like it was always within you this entire time. He kind of just wants you to, like, you know, why does this make you upset? Why do you find this so funny? And he just kind of tries to pull that out of you. But he really taught me, I think him and I would say, Colbert. And even now, like, I see with Oliver is really how to be like, to bring a level of decency and to be a good faith actor. Because there's a lot of clapping back in what we do. You're calling a lot of things out. But I think Stephen, Stewart, Oliver, even Trevor, there's a level of sophistication and, and again, just

like a good faith effort. Like, I'm not here. I'm not trying to just bury you in a viscer rate. You just for the sake of doing that. Like, I really want to do this in a, in a, in a really sort of spirit, not spiritual, but it's very compassionate. No empathetic sure Sure, but just like be a decent human being about it You know, and I've seen people enter the lion's den with both Trevor and Stephen and they'll both handle it really really well They won't like have the audience just gang up on them Jerry Springer style And so one of the best things that I sort of learned from them is To be you know, when

you're saying something or if you're going to poke at something, is to be like really specific in what you're saying instead of like punching every which way. Yeah. It's almost to just be like, it's like a sniper shot. And like, and this is the thing I'm trying to say or like, this is the thing that I, that we need to sort of assess and analyze. I love the humanity in there.

I feel like that's often missed, because I feel like when you're making people laugh, it's so easy for the audience member to just assume that you kind of just went for the easiest shot of what it is, right? Like, it's easy for the audience to see. Yeah, I'll sure, sure, sure. Yeah, it's not that you're doing that.

Sure. It's easy for the audience to just feel like, oh yeah, like, this is hilarious, and I'm laughing, but I feel like we don't hear the humanity. Yeah. And I think almost as an audience, we need to raise our game so that we recognize that actually, oh, let's look at the depth of this argument.

The word, yeah, the word I was looking for is be surgical. Yes. Wow. And like in the, when I saw John after the, do a monologue after the Sandy Hook shooting, he was surgical in his analysis of the way America is dealing with guns. You know, like he's not just like screaming out hyperbole for the sake of the hyperbole. He's on a progen. Totally. It's like that right there. And then he would build the act around that.

Just me watching that was like, wow. And I think that lasts the test of time. You're going to take less else when you're really specific about what are you critiquing here. And then you kind of become better about like, yeah, I know there's going to be blowback, but that's fine. I've like come to terms with this because I've closed all the other doors. Yes.

And I sort of picked the highest hanging fruit to take. I love that. That's just great advice for all of us in conflict. Like that's just a great, like that message and lesson you've just taught us there. Like that's perfect for like workplace issues, relationships, issues, like that's, that can be applied anywhere. Yeah. Like not just to your work.

It's, it's such a great principle of like if you are going to debate, discuss or argue on something. Yeah. Make sure it's done in this way. Sure. Like, yeah, I can make fun of the shoes, the clothes, the this, the that, the way you look, your hair. Like, not we're not going to do that. Yeah, it's too easy. I'm going to be surgical about this specific choice. Yeah. That I feel is hypocritical and speaks to a larger issue. Yes. Then you're kind of like, oh shit, all right, like this dude has come to play. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the other person also can't run away from it

and use all the other stuff. So no, I love them and that's awesome. What is being a father, how's that changed your view in life? How old you daughter now? My daughter's not 19 months. I have 90. Yeah, I'm crazy. You know, one of the cool things that a friend of mine life. How would you do it in a? My daughter is now 19 months. Yeah. How 19? Yeah. Amazing.

You know, one of the cool things that a friend of mine told me that I didn't really realize with Jihad Ali, he told me that like when you have kids and I, he's a little bit older than me, but he told me it's the first time you start praying for other people than yourself. Ooh. Like everything I pray for is for her. Yes. And I'm not even like, when I'm asking God, like I'm not even asking for me, it's kind of crazy.

I mean, I know you, with God, you get unlimited ass, but I'm just like, I know you don't got time. So let me just like, I know you got to like a quick sec. It's like, can you just throw a blessing her away? I love that man. You know what I mean? And I'm happy, that's like me getting Jordans. Yeah, I want her to get Jordans.

Yeah. Like, God, just please hook it up for her. Yeah. And I don't even care that, like, it went to even ask for myself. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Isn't that unbelievable feeling to believe

that's even possible? Yeah, but then the thing that messes with me is going. Also why, like, when I go take her to say Jim Breer, like, watch her play with other kids, I could give a fuck about any of the other kids. How messed up is that? Yeah. Like, oh, I'm so selfless.

I care about this, like, I care about this creature. No, no, I care about my creature. So that's also like, dude, you're not as well because you think you are, you're not as deep as you think you are. Like, I'm at Jim Breer, there's like 19 other, like kids with boogers. I'm like, yo, keep the deep as you think you are. Like, I'm at Jim Brey, there's like 19 other kids with boogers. I'm like, yo, keep the boogers away.

So it's cool. And it's also, you know, it also has made me like, check myself too in interesting weird ways. And that's an example of something that I'm trying to be introspective of. And like through comedy. Yes. Like that's a common take that I hear.

Now that you're a father, you must be so selfless. I'm like, parents were pretty selfish. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, I get that. See, mind's the other way around. So when I lived as a monk, so much of our focus was on building that love and service attitude towards everyone. That's great. So it was like, a monk becomes a monk because the whole world becomes your family, because now you don't have a biological family. That's true. And so this mindset is trained. But then when I came back, I realized that I started

treating my own family as less than, and all the same as everyone else. Oh, and then my family took offense to that too, because then they were just kind of like, oh, but we're a family. So then it was that way around. I was like, oh, this is a complicated one. I was like, no, safeway is my family.

Yeah. Yeah, safeway, like everyone that I've me and everyone I see and I've I've loved that attitude towards it but but I get you and and for me I think I do believe in us going above and beyond and stretching that definition of family because as soon as you start doing that you know this I mean I think and I think you are to some degree I think you are to some degree because I guess you're I some degree, because I guess, you're, I mean, would you describe that the work you're doing

is also to change the world that your daughter grows up in. Do you feel that way? Do you feel that responsibility? Or no, not really. That's not really where it goes. No, I'm just trying to do the best possible work that I can. I think that, like, if I put that assignment, it's too big. Yeah, I got, oh, I got to change the world vis-a-vis my show.

That's not, come on, man. It's just got, oh, I got to change the world visa via my show. That's not me. Come on, man. It's just like, this is, this is my journey while, you know, hopefully I'm on this earth that I do sort of significant meaningful work that I feel is challenging. And I empty the tank. That's really it. And so I'm just holding myself accountable. Is that the best show you could really do? Is that the best show you could put together? Yeah. Like, come on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and what's the metric of that question? Like, is that a self-imposed metric? Yeah, when I go to sleep on that, I know what it is. Yeah, right, okay.

You know what it is. Like, you know when you found it in, you know when you didn't. And like the way you go to sleep, you can really tell. How can people build that as a way of living? Because I love that. And I agree with you. I think that the most purposeful, meaningful for women driven people in the world measure things by how they feel when they go to sleep at night. But I think sometimes we get lost in measuring ourselves by how everyone

else sleeps at night almost. Oh, you know, like, I don't think that what you've just said is not very common. Like, I don't I don't hear many people say that. Like, there's such an intuition there, right? Your intuition's so strong, you're so aware of, I feel happy tonight. I feel that I've done enough tonight, I feel like I've done my best. How do you think, and I'm asking you to unpack it, as I'm not expecting you to be like,

this is my three-step method. Look, I just, I just, I don't know what put it inside of me to want to try. My dad tells me this all the time. He's like, you know, because I have me and my sister. He's like, you've just been different. You've always sort of tried at things and he was clowning me the other day. He was like, you've also publicly failed a lot, which I don't understand why you sort of put yourself through that. And I was like, what do you mean, Daddy's like, I remember I used to take you to soccer games. You were really bad at

soccer. People would make fun of you. You were slow. Like he was just roasting me. But he's like, you would try really hard. He's like, I kept taking you to basketball, tryouts, you would get cut every year, but you'd show up. Like, I don't understand why you would do that. But I remember like, even early on in comedy, still, you know what I'm trying to do stuff and show business, I'm just failing.

I think it's just like, you reach this moment where like, you interviewed for that job and you know that like You took that shower, you brushed, you flossed and you used mouthwash like you tied your shoes the right way You pulled up your socks the right way you were prepared You went through all the talking points that you know your manager's gonna ask you about and if it still doesn't go your way You're just kind of like what more can I do? I'm at that age now where it's like, I also can't debate, I can't wish

that I could be someone else. Like the verdict is out. I'll never be able to dunk, I'll never be able to rap, I'll never be able, like it's a rap. Husband Minhaj, God didn't give me that gift. And it was just by virtue of trying all those different things, failing.

And you can just kinda come be at peace with it. They're just like, I did it. I tried. I was not good at those things. I love the roast you got from your father about Shara Khan. That was good. That was really good. That was great. That was great. I love that. I love brilliant. But I really love him because of that. You don't have to take yourself that seriously. You know what I mean? And there's a lot of like,'t have to take yourself that seriously. Like, you know what I mean?

And there's a lot of, like, you got to take yourself very seriously. And I just think that we all have flaws and pimples and just kind of laugh at it. And I think that's more endearing than being like, I'm the fucking best. Yeah, of course. Yeah. No, but there's a lot of like, everybody's trying to be like an NFL wide receiver, where they're just like out of their mind. And like, do you know who I am?

You know how blue check verified I am? You're like, relax, man. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you. I'm with you, I agree with that. I'm with you. I think that from what I'm hearing you say, what gets me thinking is just like, you're not living in the previous of anyone.

And that's when things get really serious and thick, whether it's your parents, or whether it's society, or friends, or whether it's society or friends, or whatever it is. And that's when it kind of gets scary to fail, or it gets scary to mess up, because now you're constantly like, what will people say, how will people think, how they react? To me, it's always been about like the fuel. So when you got the chip on your shoulder, which is great, like it's like espresso in the morning, you got that chip on your shoulder where you want to prove someone wrong, like, oh man, this guy was hating on me.

This dude said something about me on Twitter. Oh, this producer wants to keep me out of this project. Yeah, like hatred and vengeance is a pretty good fuel. The problem is it doesn't burn very efficient. Correct. Yeah. Like, it's just kind of tapers off. It's just not a good energy source. You can get you ignited.

Correct. Correct. Correct. Whereas like when you're trying to prove it to yourself every day, the way that the sort of like that plays out over time, it just plays out a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it doesn't taper off after like three days.

Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about this is one thing that I've been wanting to ask you for a while. How do you go about, and we've talked a lot about, I think in this podcast already, we've talked a lot about conflict, debate, discussion, how to manage that. How do you go about connecting with someone who's already made their mind up about something and trying to take them to the other side or a deeper side? What's your vision with that?

When you're speaking to a group of people, if I put you right now in a room of people who completely disagreed with you, what would a husband and a wife do? Well, I've sort of kind of terms with two realities. Like, number one, just accepting and believing the truth is the truth. Even if like people don't wanna go there,

the truth is still objectively the truth, right? And then number two, my job really isn't to convince you because people ask me this all the time. They're like, man, you did that big episode on blah, blah, blah. But what if people on the other side of the aisle disagree with you? That's not the point of even creating the thing to begin with. It's just to present it. And if you

come along great, if you don't, again, the truth is still the truth. Like it doesn't negate. Yeah. I love that. See, the message I get when I'm listening to you today and I felt I knew this felt I knew this by observing you, but obviously getting to know you a bit better today, like is today, I felt I knew this by observing you, but obviously getting to know you a bit better today, like there's just so much satisfaction and contentment in doing the work. Like when I'm hearing speak, what I mean by that is you have so much satisfaction

and contentment in just doing what you believe is right, doing what you believe the best, trying to find the truth. I'm presenting that as it is. And that's where you get your satisfaction. Yeah. And that is such a great place to get your satisfaction. Sure. Because no one can ever take that away from you. Yeah. No that is such a great place to get your satisfaction. Sure.

Because no one can ever take that away from you. Yeah. No one can ever take that away from you. And that place to everyone who's listening and watching right now, it's like, when you get your satisfaction from the deep work, the creativity, the research, the reflection, the introspection, that's something you can do time

and time and time and time again. But when you're waiting for that one person to agree or people to shift their minds and be like, oh, because of you, how's tonight changed my mind? Yeah, they're not, yeah. Like, I have like people that I love, people I grew up with that, that still like completely disagree with me that some of them didn't think I was doing the right things in terms of like personal choices, I've made professional choices, I've made, that's okay.

And I think if anybody could see this from my work, I certainly hope, or I would just like to add this to the conversation. You can still disagree with people and love them very much. 100%. But that is not a that is not a common reality that's happening right now in discourse. Like if you're Democrat or if you're Republican or if you're this or if you're that, you have to be canceled. Like, we've had some tough episodes on the show. We do this whole thing about policing. I'm leaving the studio. All the people that do security for our show are former policemen.

That's a tough conversation, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? I've been in so many of the belly of those sort of beasts where, oh man, you were criticizing tech companies and you're doing it in front of tech executives. And then you got to have big tech, yeah, on a big tech platform. And then you have to go to the bottom, talk to each other. But I think just I think all I want to try to show

through my work is we can still disagree and I can still love you and see the humanity in you. And that's all I can control. Yeah, I love that man. Yeah, I'm with you. I think that's such a great place to just leave it all out on the table when you're discussing truth, to discuss truth. Yeah, but then not not take it. And I think that's the challenge, right? Like what you're saying, like right now the holidays are coming up. Yeah, and I know I usually get like the number one question I get of how do we talk about this? Yeah.

The number one question. Yeah. Thanks, giving, Christmas coming up. Like Jay, I'm gonna have to manage. Like I probably get very different questions to you about the same thing. Yeah. Like for me, it's not like how do I have a question

about this specific issue. For me, it's always like, oh Jay, like I know this person's gonna bring this up and it's gonna get real negative and toxic quick. Like how do I deal with that? Yeah, and what do you talk? Well, I think what you just said right now is a great answer.

What I'm saying is you've given the answer. Like, I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying you've given the answer. Like, I love that. I think you're making the point that, I think we have to separate people's humanity from their views. And we have to respect them on a humanitly level

and the fact that we all bleed the same blood and, you know, have that connection and, and, and that ideas and beliefs do form us to some degree, but not the whole of us. Yeah. And, and being able to make that make that distinction is so important. Yeah. How do you go about encouraging people to make that distinction further? I don't know.

Because you've achieved it. There's just been moments where I've seen it in their eyes like I'd be like, I completely disagree with what you have to say about this issue. Like I, I, I, a hundred thousand you've achieved it. There's just been moments where I've seen it in their eyes. Like, I'd be like, I completely disagree with what you have to say about that issue. Like, I, I, 100,000 percent disagree. However, I think you're a beautiful person and I love you. And they'll be like, oh, so you just don't want to kill me? You don't want to cancel me. You don't want to like ridicule me in front of everybody on the internet.

Like, no, I just, I just, I'm telling you you're, you're wrong. You're wrong about that. Like, your jeans are too tight, but I love you. Are you telling me that right now? Yeah, I think I'm saying that they're a little too tight. You think they're too tight? But I think, but despite that, I love you. So you could be like, I disagree with your position on,

you know, this prime minister, however, yeah, I think like you're still my grandmother and I love you. Yeah, you know, I don't like that with a good decision, but yes, I love you, Graham You know, I don't like it when you get a decision, but yes, I love you, Grandpa. Yeah, I don't take this one to believe for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you got what I'm saying?

Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, and there's this like, look, like, because I think the point being that there is always going to be someone disagreeing with you about something small or big. And so none of us are living lives where every decision we made was perfect. Yeah, so yeah, no, I love that.

I love that view point, man. That's awesome. I'm going to shift forward because we only got a few moments left. I want to shift forward to we end every interview with the final five. And I've still got a million questions for you, but we're going to have to do this again. Okay. We're going to have to do this. Yeah, we will definitely do a part two because there is so much that we've we've just

skinned over today and this is what we can go for. I hope this was a valuable and some capacity. Very valuable. I think, you know, for me, it's like, like I said to you before, when we did the Kobi interview, it's like, there are plenty of people who can have a great political discussion with you. That was not my intention today. Yeah. There's great people who will be able to talk about issues with you.

It's not me. It's not my strength. You know, but today, I, my goal, my intention was simply for people to see the humanity, the intention, the purpose that goes into your work. And I think we've done that. Like I think people will be able to listen to this and be like, oh, I understand how Hussin thinks about life, humanity, and how he constructs this work. It's not just, you know, so if we've been able to do that, then that's a win for me.

That's great. But yeah, man. Okay, we're going to do the final five. These are answered in one word to one sentence maximum. You will probably be a win for me. That's great. But yeah, man, okay, we're going to do the final five. These are answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. You will probably be too deep for me, so I'll have to let you share more. So I will let you go there. But the first question is, what's one thing you're currently learning right now? Patients. Oh, okay. Where's the way what's testing your patients and in what area of life? I think I think both went like at work. what's testing your patients and in what area of life? I think both went like at work,

trying to line up that interview or trying to line up that piece or why isn't the script where it needs to be. It's understanding that like, hey man, close your eyes, it'll be a week from now and it'll probably be better or the verdict will be out. Like, oh, that piece isn't gonna work. Oh, that interview just isn't going to happen.

So to, like, for better or for worse, the answer will be there. Yes. Like it will either live or die. 100%. And you will have come to terms with both realities. Yes. So just like, just be okay. You don't have to get turned about it today.

I love that so true. I would 100% agree with that. Okay, question number two. If you lost everything and had to start over, what's the first thing you'd do? If I lost everything and I had to start over, what's the first thing I do? If I lost everything and I had to start over what's the first thing I would do. Practically, I would probably learn the technical aspects of all this stuff now because like all

these sort of digital revolution realities are now very real now and I think this is the new way we communicate. So that's like from a very pragmatic perspective, like learn to program, learn, like learn the language of all this new technology as like the the medium and water and through which we communicate. But I think the thing I'll probably tell myself is that like it'll be all right, man. Yeah. Yeah. You did it before you'll be able to do it again. You'll be all right. Strong advice. Oh, so number three, the number one trait you love in your wife. The number one trait? Yeah.

I love quality. Yeah, the quality. Selflessness. Wow. Yeah. Okay. When did you start seeing that, you know, the moment I'm known her since college.

Yeah. I know. I really told your proposal story. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I was, yeah, I saw it since college. Okay. Yeah.

Wow. What was it in college that she showed that? Like, how did she show you that in college? She would make all the people in our dorm floor, KCDS. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's impressive. And even people that were like assholes, I'm like, don't give them a KCDS. Like, I was like, let them starve.

That's awesome. And she's like, no, I can't. People love her. Like, people genuinely love her. Yeah. For all the work. And she does it like with or without props. There's, it's not being like,

it's not an Instagram stories or anything like that. It's like, yeah, I remember that day because I was late on my flight and I came in late and you guys had saved like the code left of us but then she ordered me fresh food and I got that. And I was just like, what? And I was the first time I met her. And she didn't even know who Jay Shetty was.

It was the first time I met him. I was like, wait know who Jay Shetty was. As the first time I met her. I was like, wait, and I go, you don't know, he's making spirituality viral. She's like, I don't care. He deserves hot food. No, she was beautiful. She was really beautiful. No, I really appreciate it.

I remember that. Yeah, I can't remember that. I was like, wow, like she really, yeah. And I was like, did you do that? Cause he's friends with Alan and she's like, no, there's nothing to do with that. Yeah. That, that's, in me is what I love most about it. Like that's really dope.

I love that question number four. What's non-negotiable for you in life? Like what's something you don't negotiate or? For your son? Negotiable. Yeah, for yourself. I gotta do and pursue what I love. I just have to.

I can't, if I do anything else, I'm gonna die. I just can't. Do you think you'd I do anything else, I'm gonna die. I just can't. Do you think you'd be a bad person if you weren't able to? I would have been a very angry person. Yeah, me too. Yeah, and I just don't want to do that. Yeah, I can.

I gotta say what I gotta say. I gotta express myself. I always say that. Yeah, I feel the same way. I always tell people I'm like, if I wasn't doing what I loved every day, it wouldn't have been great. Like, yeah, the part of you that would come out wouldn't be the best.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Okay. And fifth and final question, what's one moment in your life you wish could have lost it forever? One moment in my life. Yeah. Probably my daughter's really into balloons. But the first time I sort of, like this is like even just a couple of weeks ago, I blew up a balloon in front of her and she was laughing really, really hard. That's it.

I was like, there was this big blue balloon. I blew. Yeah, and I was, I just blew it up and then like tapped it against her head and she thought it was the funniest thing in the world. I love that. Yeah, and I was like, tap, tap, she was dying. Tap, tap, she's like exploding with laughter. Yeah. If I could just boomerang that. Yeah. She's like exploding with laughter. Yeah.

If I could just boomerang that. Yeah. For the rest of the room. Yeah. I'm actually, I've never done this before, but I'm going to ask you, because I think if you could give everyone something that they had to do daily, what would you ask people to do?

If you could give everyone in the world a practice that they had to do daily for the next 30 days, what would you want them to do? OK. What is the hardest thing that you can do today? Just write it down and try to do it. Okay. What's the hardest task that you can do today?

It can't be like one of those things where it's just like, I'm going to start the company. It's not that. It's like, what's the hardest task that you can do today? It can only be accomplished 24 hours and do that. I love that. That's great. So if it's like, I have to sit down and write three pages,

free, right? After write, free, write three pages, that's gonna be really hard for me. Or like, I gotta run one mile on incline five on the treadmill. That's gonna be really hard for, but you can do it in one day. So it has to be the hardest task of that day.

I'm gonna take a cold shower. Whatever that thing is, it has to be the hardest task that you can do in one calendar day. I love that. That is gonna stick with you for a long time. I love that, a cold shower. Whatever that thing is, it has to be the hardest task that you can do in one calendar day. I love that. That is gonna stick with you for a long time. I love that, man. Awesome, man.

I wish you so much. Thank you, bro. You're amazing. Please, please, please, let's do a part two. Because there are so many things to get told about. Yes, you really want to do a part two? I 100% want to do a part two. Okay.

I'm gonna wear loose sitras. I'm just... I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna... Look at my mind. I'm gonna. No, no, let's do it. All right. Thank you, man.

Thank you so much. Thank you, man. That was amazing. Honestly, that was so, so great. Thanks, Papa, it was good for you. It was good. back with season two of my podcast Navigating Narcissism. This season we dive deeper into highlighting red flags and spotting a narcissist before they spot you. Each week you'll hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and their process of healing. Listen to Navigating Narcissism on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Eva Lungoria and I'm Maite Gomes-Rajon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast Hungry for History! On every episode we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry for History on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books.

You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.