On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Kate Bosworth: ON How to Bounce Back From Hitting Exhaustion Spiritually & Mentally

Episode Date: November 25, 2019

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Kate Bosworth. Kate is an actress, activist, and producer. Kate now stars in and produced the Netflix Sci-fi series The I-Land. She shares her current experience of hitting exhaustion spiritually & mentally, and tuning into vulnerability. Kate reminds us to approach life through an observational point of view, instead of a controlling one. She urges us to ask: what fortifies our spirits & connects with our hearts. Text Jay Shetty 310-997-4177 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nunehm. I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bon vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about.

And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, try to get invited to a local's house for dinner where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You know, for me, I was able to really look in a broader sense of how I was feeling with two kind of pillars Which was fear and love the fearful things in my case was fear of the unknown Which is a big one fear of losing what you have and fear of not getting what you want and then you look at love It's completely the opposite of that Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose. Thank you so much for making us the number one health podcast in the world. I'm so grateful that we dive in every week to topics around wellness or on mental health around vulnerability, empathy, finding our true authentic and sincerest selves. And I'm so grateful that you get involved in the conversation.

I love seeing your posts on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook and I love seeing what you're taking away. And I truly believe already because I've just been speaking to today's guest outside the room before we dove in here and just now. And I think you're going to get so much from this conversation. So get your notepads out right now. If you are walking your dog, if you're cooking and you can't take notes, take mental notes, and if you can't take mental notes, then come back to this episode. I'm so excited for this conversation.

Today's guest is Kate Bosworth. She's an actress, activist, and producer, and she's transitioned from being a young Hollywood star to one of today's leading people on screen and behind the lens. And by the way, she made her on screen debut at 14 years old with zero prior experience. And we'll get to that in a moment. Her film credits include everything from still Alice, Heist, 90 minutes in heaven, home front, blue crush, and so many more.

And Kate and her husband, Michael Polish, have co-produced the feature film, No Na. I highly recommend checking it out. And most recently, Kate now stars in and produced the Netflix sci-fi series, The Island streaming on Netflix now. And we'll talk about that today, Kate. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, I'm so excited to have you. And we started talking. I think it was maybe a couple of months ago on Instagram through DMs. And this is why I love Instagram because it introduces me to incredible people like you.

And we started sharing these messages back and forth. And I was so drawn to your openness, your vulnerability, your expression of the journey you're on. And I wanted to share that with my audience. And you've been so kind to trust me with that too. So I just want to say thank you so much for doing that. Thank you so much for having me. I felt the same way.

Like, actually, my husband is the one who introduced me to you. Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah, he was, he, he sent me a post that you, that you had put up and he was like, you're really going to like, Jay Shetty. And I, and I started really stalking you. And I was like, you're right.

But yeah, I mean, that's why I love Instagram social media too, is that you can kind of create bonds, you know, through likeness, which is really great. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. Oh, no, thank you. I'm so touched, genuinely, honestly, and the short conversation we just had outside and the conversation we were having yesterday, I just think that you being confident, courageous, wonderful, enough to share this revelatory moment in your life where you're going through deep reflection. For you to share it this time, I think you're so brave and courageous. And I think it's so beautiful. And I think it's going to help so many people because we were just talking about it outside that I think we're used to hearing things in hindsight.

We're used to hearing about something once it's done and someone's had time to reflect, but you're actually going to be sharing what's happening with you right now while you're reflecting and learning. Yeah, I mean, it was very, you know, it was perfect timing really when you reached out to me. And I said to you, I said, you know, it's funny that you're asking me to come on now, because about a month ago, I literally just hit a moment of just such complete exhaustion and I don't mean exhaustion like I'm tired and I need to sleep for a week. It was exhaustion just like spiritually and mentally, you know, with kind of how I was approaching

my career, how I was approaching family, love, sort of everything. And I just thought to myself, if I don't really consider this, and kind of unplug from all of it, and unplug really just from the way I haven't been approaching things thus far in my life, I'm gonna find myself in some trouble. And it's kind of like, when you can almost like see the road signs to an accident and you're like, it's coming, I can see it's coming. And I'm like, I don't want to be in such a wreck that,

you know, I have to be putting like body parts back together at that point, you know. And so I literally just, I used this kind of metaphor. I feel like I was sort of standing on the edge of a cliff and I just decided to kind of jump off and free fall without a parachute. I sort of did a bit of a clearing with people in my life that I felt weren't contributing in a way that I was contributing back. And so there was that kind of feeling of,

I'm in love, by the way, like not like in any kind of anger or any kind of, you know, bad feelings for them. It was just, it's time to let that go and make space for other things. And really the big thing for me was to get in touch with the vulnerability. And that's scary. It's a crazy thing.

And I have to live in so much vulnerability on a day-to-day basis with what I do for a living and kind of losing yourself in characters who are in a lot of pain or expressing certain things about themselves. You have to find a commonality of pain with characters. But the real deep, kind of soul searching vulnerability of self, like going way back to how you were cooked by 36 years old, which is how old I am. And feeling for me, the big thing was, as I am I was telling you I'm definitely a type you know in

school and I school I was like very nerdy very academic you know I'm an only child so I I have two wonderful parents and and in raising me they they did raise me with high expectations they did raise me with we expect you to work hard and do the best you possibly can and look in the mirror and say did you do the best today which has so much benefit to it. On the other hand, you know, it's a tall order, you know, to have for yourself every single day. There's a lot of pressure that comes along with that. And so with that said, I've never been the kind of person that's phenomenally comfortable with the unknown. Like, I like to control, I like to control things. Yeah, so in that sense, it works really well. To be a producer, those are the sides to me that work very well for that.

But as a human being and for someone who really felt like that was hindering me more than it was helping me, you know, in my heart and in my soul. I just thought I have to kind of jump off this cliff and be comfortable with the discomfort. Absolutely. And that was crazy. Like, I literally had a month of not doing much and, you know, making certain decisions in my life that were big decisions that really did did kind of reveal a big unknown. And there was like two days where I felt like paralytic fear, truly, like where I was just sitting in one spot just being like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to get through

this day. It was so, it was really that kind of overwhelming feeling. And then what was so great was that I sort of survived and thought, well, now the free falls actually going from so much fear to excitement. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, what I'm doing?

So I'm doing, like, whoa, this is actually really cool. I like the unknown, you know? I feel somewhat more comfortable in the unknown. And starting to approach life with a more, sort of like observational point of view rather than a controlling you know sort of forceful point of view. Okay I've got so many questions now. Okay. This is amazing. This is amazing and I think anyone is listening right now. I want you to put yourself back into a place when you felt how Kate's

beautifully describing how she's felt or I'm thinking for a lot of you listening right now you might even be a lot of you listening right now You might even be in one of those situations right now So I really wanted to bring your whole body and your mind and your soul into this conversation because I think just the way You articulate that was beautiful by the way and I'm hoping that that's gonna help people navigate there So one of my first questions is around How were you approaching you said a type tell me about how you were approaching life and you spoke a bit about it There are your parents expectations

When did that mindset of looking in the mirror every day and asking yourself if you've done the best when was that useful And when did you start to notice it wasn't useful because I'm guessing there are times when it's Amazing like you mentioned and there's times when you're like, oh, okay now. I'm noticing this is not serving me anymore And there's times when you're like, oh, okay, now I'm known to sing, this is not serving me anymore. Totally. And honestly, I'm still in it. And I love how you said that we're having this discussion while I'm going through this moment of self-reflection.

So I will sort of admittedly say I don't have actually all the answers. However, I will say that it serves me in being very diligent and determined and strong well with my work. I definitely and someone who will leave no stone unturned in terms of how can I make something happen. You know, if my relationship, my marriage is struggling, how do I, how do we, how do we look at that? How do we come together or do we need some space? Like what is it that will help us be closer?

I'm excited to talk to you about this too. Because we've been married for six years together for eight. And it's a really beautiful journey. And I think that's something that I had to really understand that it really is that. There are peaks and valleys. There are really difficult moments, especially for us, for two artists. So it's a little crazy sometimes. But the determination and the strongwill and the, you know, the sort of a type part of myself serves in that way. What I started to realize wasn't serving me

was this kind of unrelenting self-criticism, ultimately, which then for me led to feelings of sort of shame, self-pity. And these are the things that I've been observing myself, right? And shame is an interesting one because shame takes a lot of vulnerability to admit that you have shame or humiliation over something. It's a lot easier to be angry, right? Yes, so true. Wow, really good point.

And that's what I started finding myself that I get really angry or frustrated with situations. And in this kind of real moment of saying enough of the things that aren't working for you, let's really strip this back. Let's see how do you truly feel? And when I really got to the core of myself, I thought, well, the self-criticism brings a lot of shame

for certain things, shame that I am not succeeding in a certain way are things that I feel like I'm failing or that I'm not good enough, I'm not this or I'm not that. And I thought, well, you know, that is something that, you know, you want to, you want to look at with vulnerability in a way that can then lead to more confidence. You know, like, you're giving yourself the permission to look at it with vulnerability without the judgment, without the criticism. Exactly.

And, you know, anger is interesting because it can feel a lot more comfortable at times. Oh, totally. You know, it's a more comfortable, you know, sort of thing to put on to assume, then, wow, I actually feel like really like really you know I'm struggling right now. You know and and that's sort of the place that I'm trying to get to which is feel confident enough to feel vulnerable and to be able to feel calm with that vulnerability

rather than sort of very erratic and chaotic which you know it's that thing where I would feel vulnerable and I'd be like well I don't want to feel this way. Yeah. And it's like that, like that nerve of your heart, right? Where you're like, God, I'm hitting it. And it's like that almost like electric drill. And so this kind of time has been to say, okay, wow. Yeah, that's the core.

Yes. That's the core. So let's, you know, let's lean into that, like, let's embrace that. Like, even if it feels a little uncomfortable, that's okay. It's okay to feel uncomfortable. Like,'s that's gonna lead you somewhere else. I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved by the Tinder Swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me,

but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissists in your life. Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing,

and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save your retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet, roughly 4 and 5 New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or 2. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals, our podcast How to Money can help. That's right, we're two best buds who've been at it for more than 5 years now, and we want to see you achieve your money goals, and it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show

fresh by answering list of listener questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about

building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, how do monies got your back? Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am.

I needed her to help me. Something was gnawing at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season eight of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, wow, so true. I love what you just said that about being confident enough to be vulnerable, because

usually we see it the other way around, right? Usually we see it as, oh, if I'm not vulnerable, then I'm confident. Right. Exactly. I think there, you know, there is this kind of misconception that, you know, vulnerability can feel like a weakness. Weakness. Yes. And yet, I really feel like, for the first time in my life, I've been able to say to people, I actually don't have the answer for that. And feel okay with that rather than say, I don't have the answer, but I'll find it. And I'll get it right back to the kind of how I used to be. Definitely.

And I have the impulse to kind of go back there because it's so much of, you know, how I made up. But when I'm trying to really feel more comfortable in is saying, I'm actually in a place of the unknown. And that's just where I'm at. Yeah, you know. Okay, with that. It's, it's, and it's, it's, I think, you know, and what's exciting to me about the free fall rather than the fear, is it to me, that's really where so much growth comes in. Yes, yes. And sometimes it takes a bit of time to get there. I was saying to someone the other day that, you know, taking the analogy of sometimes

like if your house is burning down right now, you don't have time to reflect and get intimate with them, figure out, you need to just run away, right? Like, sometimes you're just like, forget that cliff. Yeah. I just need to cry and hide for a moment. Yes. Totally. Or I just need to run away from the situation. But then after the dust is settled, you come back and you go, well what started that fire? Where did it come from? Right. Why did I have to run away from it? Why did it? Why did it happen in the first place? Right. So like then you can come back to it. Yeah. And I think part of the process with that is to be like sort of lovingly discerning

with who you speak to and who you invite into that process. So I totally understand that feeling. Like the first week was like the fire and the flames and just being, you know, just being like, I don't know what's happening. You know, it's crazy. And then as the dust settled, it was about reaching out to people and saying, hey, I'm

going through something that's really difficult and I'm struggling and can you come over? And I feel like I've always prided myself on being the strong one and that people kind of come to me for answers for. And I found that I was using was using the metaphor to you outside, which was, Kate's got it. I've got it, I've got it, I've got it, I've got it, I've got it. And then all of a sudden, I'm dropping,

I don't have it, I don't have it. Who else can, and that was sort of how I felt where it's like just a lot of everything fall was kind of brilliant. Because I was like, well, I'm actually a lot clearer now because I see everything sort of like just, you know, in a heap, and it's actually okay. And so then you kind of start to put things back

in a way that is healthier, and we'll have a, a more formidable longevity, I think, itself, you know. Absolutely, yeah, I think I love that metaphor, because I think sometimes we're carrying things for so long and for so longevity, I think, with self. Absolutely, yeah, I love that metaphor because I think sometimes we're carrying things for so long and for so close, that it's so close we don't even know what we're carrying anymore. But you're carrying it and you feel the weight, but then when you actually drop it all,

you can then go, well, yeah, I actually want to keep that, and that's not relevant. I'm getting that from, like that's the process of it. Yeah. One thing you said, which I thought was amazing, is you talked about how, and twice now, you've sidelined anger in the sense of you've just been like, I'm doing this without anger. And you talked about letting go of people with love. And I thought that was really beautiful because I think, and sometimes I post about things like this and

people struggle and they're just like, Jay, how can I, how can I, like, if I stop talking to someone then, then they're going to not like me or that can't be loving. Like, how did you let go of people with love? Like, how does that process work? I think, you know, for me, I was able to really look, you know, in a, in a broader sense of how I was feeling with two kind of pillars, which was fear and love. And so, you know, to me, they were so, to me, the fearful things were, in my case, was fear of the unknown, which is the big one, fear of losing what you have and fear of not getting what you want. And then you look at love, and it's completely the opposite of that. And so I thought, if I can really analytically understand fear, right? And to think, can I identify this relationship

or this feeling or this experience with one of these three things? Then I can kind of understand it and not feel so free-floating with the feeling, because fear is so material. You know, I mean, it can literally, when I say paralytic, it really did. It sort of became like this kind of crazy, like, straight jacket for me, you know, for a couple of days.

And then when I was able to say, well, why do you feel that way? Well, I'm really, really afraid of losing what I have. In the 1680s, a feisty opera singer burned down a nunnery and stole away with her secret lover. In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her crew's way to total freedom, with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans. What are these stories having common? They're all about real women who were left out of your history books.

If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of, but definitely should know about. I'm your host, Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leave feeling amazed, inspired, and sometimes shocked. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade.

Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Spagg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships, and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences. Incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life.

Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about. From the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our twenties. The psychology of your twenties hosted by me, Gemma Speg, now streaming on the iHotRadio app, Apple podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there.

There's just this sexy vibe in Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What was seen as a very snotty city, people call it Bosedangeless. New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pay. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Friends' newdom and not lost is my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sights, and try to finagle our way into a dinner party. We're kinda trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out.

I would love that, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love you dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling. But I get to travel with someone I love. Oh, see, I love you too.

And also, we get to eat as much... I'm very sincere. I love you too. My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white, I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. So, let's look at that. So if you, why are you afraid of that?

Well, because then I won't have this and that's really important to me, okay. Why do you need to change that? And so I really started to have this dialogue with myself. Yes, yes. And I would say, well, because I don't like where it's at because it's not serving me in this way and I feel like I've not participated in the best way.

Okay, so then you need to communicate. Communication, you know, I know we hear this a lot, but really what I found was that, and long winded answer to your question, it's great. It's great. The, um, really the way of letting go with love, to me is through communication in a way that is loving. And it's to be able to say through vulnerability, you know, hey, I just I have to be really honest with you. And this is difficult for me to say. And it actually, to be honest, it actually creates a lot of vulnerability with me with With that said, da da da da da. And like to me, that was, it just created such incredible change. So it's easy to be honest, right?

It's so much easier. And I think, you know, it's interesting, because we talked about this a little bit. We, you know, I didn't grow up with Instagram or Facebook or any kind of global perception of what other people think or what I think of other people or what other people think or what I think of other people or what other people think of other people, you know, this, like, what you said so wonderfully in your post.

But you know, it's, it's definitely, to me, like, a part of that, I think, was really feeling like I needed to unplug from that and get very, very genuine with myself. And the moment that I was able to say, this is truly how I feel. It allowed me to go over the fear because it was just me. And that's kind of, you know, there's nothing really left to hide behind. There was not unknown now. Once've given it a name, you've verbalized it, you've vocalized it. It's not unknown. No, exactly. And I think when we live in a world of perception,

it is difficult to, I think for a certain people, I think for a lot of people to feel honest and authentic and vulnerable. And it's an interesting observation and reality of where we are right now as a society, which is everything's fine, everything's great, white picket fences, Labrador's, you know, like everything, you know, and I'm guilty of it. I totally, you know, I mean, which is why I was so excited to come here and speak with you in a way that I feel safe because I think we will really thrive more as a society and

in our relationships and in our friendships with more vulnerability and honesty and authenticity. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. This is great, by the way, and anyone who's listening right now, something Kate said is really a powerful method. So, she first talked about diagnosing, like getting really close to what it is you're scared of and finding out which of those three Can you share those three areas again? Oh, yes

Well, I mean I looked at fear. Yes, which is fear of the unknown. Yes fear of losing what you have and fear of not getting what you want I love that so I would write that down right now And that's a great way of diagnosing which one it is because it has to kind of fit into one of those three and it will be clear I mean, that's the great thing and And sometimes it's two of the three, sometimes it's three of the three. Sometimes it's one of the three. But once you understand what it is, you're right. You're able to then move forward.

Totally. 100%. Yeah, no, that's a great take away. See, this is what's amazing about this conversation. And when we were talking about it earlier, it's just, you know, you go from being in your first movie at 14. Right? What was your view of confidence then versus now? Because I'm like, at 14, no experience. I mean, that sounds like it takes a lot of confidence and courage. And then like, Are you really good at sort of faking it?

I wanna know where confidence is involved for you because I mean, you know, we're not gonna judge you or 14 year old self about confidence, but. Well, it's, you know, it's okay. So it's interesting. So I've always been very true to myself. And I haven't ever had a ton of friends.

Like I really love one-on-one. I love digging deep with people. You know? Me too. So it's like if I look at the continuity throughout my life, you know, I was more of an introvert in high school. I was very academic. I was really, I felt very shy.

I don't know if I came off like that, but inside I felt very shy. And don't know if I came off like that, but inside I felt very shy. And self-conscious. I mean, I think most high schoolers feel self-conscious. I think so. Yeah. And yet, I also felt like I was always very, very true to myself in terms of, I was always very, very true to myself in terms of, I wouldn't do anything that didn't feel right. I was very, very rarely gave into peer pressure because it was like, I've always had this inter-core

where I've just known that is not gonna be right for you. And in a fundamental kind of way. And that's something that I've had throughout my life. So in terms of like feeling like I've known myself in a confident way, I think I've, I feel like I was born that way in a certain way. Now taking that away and looking at, you know, being in my first movie at 14, that happened because I was a horse rider. And I was a show jumper

and I absolutely love being around horses and riding horses. And, you know, that gave me a lot of confidence. It was just something that felt like, it was just inherent, you know, I didn't really, I mean, I was obviously a skill I had to learn, but it was something that just was like an affinity for me. And then the movie, The Horse Whisperer, was directed by Robert Redford, and he really wanted real horse girls to be involved in the movie. And so I just went on a whim to an open casting call in New York. I was living in Connecticut at the time.

And the first time I had ever even read lines, you know, and sort of participated in a scene. And I had no idea what I was doing. And I remember just finishing that experience of auditioning with the casting director and thinking, oh my god, thank God, that's over. And then I started getting called back and called back. And I remember thinking to myself, like, they don't know that I don't know what I'm doing you know and so I had this kind of weird imposter syndrome for a long time I feel like sometimes I still have it you know when I when I feel like people when people say like oh I went to julia I'm thinking oh god they're the real deal they're

gonna find out really soon that I don't um but I suppose you know with time you you feel more comfortable and with more experience, more comfortable. How did you do with anything to do? How did you do with anything to do? How did you do with anything to do? How did you do with anything to do? Or did you do with it because did you even have a name for it at that time? Or was it just this constant anxiety of like, I'm going to be found out?

Yeah. Actually, there's nothing to find out because someone liked your work and they thought you were right. And they put you on. But we all do that to ourselves. Yeah, we do. And that's probably where a lot of the self-criticism started. You know, where like literally cut to, you know, 20, 20 years later, when I just said, look, like,

I have to really connect to myself, like almost even before that 14 year old girl, you know, I mean, that's kind of how deep this last moment was. I, I know what's funny is that I felt more anxiety about kids making fun of me at school because I came from a really small town. Like I'm like, literally normal kid, you know, suburbia, you know, girl. And I was, I remember thinking it like, you know, in middle school, you know, kids are gonna make fun of me that I'm doing something weird, you know.

And you know, it's, middle school is funny because jealousy is so rampant there, there anyway, you know, and, and so I was, I was aware I had like my antenna out that like, kids are going to sort of start praying on the fact that I'm doing something interesting, and then you have to squash that immediately. You know what I mean? No, no, no, that's way too cool. And for example, I was very aware of wanting normal experiences. That was one of the things I was like when I was saying I was very self-aware as a younger person. I remember there was a movie I really wanted to do, and I had to audition numerous times for it.

It was this small movie, but it was a great character, and they couldn't give me the dates off for my prom or for my graduation. And I turned it down because I thought to myself, and wow, you know, I was 18, 17 years old, and I thought to myself, am I going to regret not doing this movie as a memory? Or am I gonna regret saying, you know, I never went to prom or like actually I didn't

go to graduation. And it was the latter that I thought I want that memory actually. How do you feel about that now? I feel good. I love that. Yeah, I feel good. And it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like this movie version of prom. It was, you know, a normal version, but it was something that, you know, one day I'll

be able to, you know, God willing tell my my children, like, Oh, yeah, I remember when I did that. Here's my photo, but I went with my date, you know, and it was just, I've always been aware of, um, while the industry that I work in is, you know, it's magical and amazing in so many ways. It, you know, it's made believe too. And so for me, the idea of connectivity and love and groundedness has been really important to me. Like the moment that I start to sway from that or I feel unruited from that, I really suffer. Well, that's an incredible example of that. Exactly. I can imagine that that's quite a hot choice. Yeah. But you seem to have really found your values quite early. And that must give you

so much confidence now, though, because when I hear you do that at how old were you then? I was like 17. Yeah. You're like 17, 18 years old. If you were able to do that then, that must give you so much more confidence and courage in your decision making now, because I feel like if you're being able to pull back then when the temptations and maybe the magic felt more magical, but now you've had so much more experience, is it easier to tap into those values or? That's like, it feels like an organ to me. Right, yeah. Like, really, I mean, it's like, if I start to sway from something that I feel, you know,

if there's a crossroads and it's like, well, you have this way or this way, if it's swaying from like the organ of my morals or my family or love or, you know, the things that are the most important things for me. Then I'll always choose that. There was two other things in my life that were that were You know quite critical when it came to decision-making one was when I ended up graduating from high school You know, I ended up getting to Princeton and my my parents were incredibly proud, you know, and you know, I was I think If not the first the second person in my family to get into an Ivy League school. And they were thrilled, of course. But I knew at that moment that if I didn't follow my dreams and move out to Los Angeles

and really trying to give acting a go that I might not do it. And the toughest thing through high school really was this balancing act of finding a few bit parts here and there and also keeping up with academia because remember back in the late 90s kids, you know, it wasn't like I could do my school work online and people weren't as lenient. I mean, I had teachers that like flat outout said if she goes and does this movie like I won't I will fail here

You know, so it was like an enormous amount of pressure. Yeah, to say Well, I you know, I want to have this experience and then I had teachers who are amazing that said you guys are crazy This person's having an extraordinary experience. How dare you take that from her, you know? And luckily I had a mom who went in there and said, do we have to figure this out? Because I'm not gonna, you know, strip her of this experience, but I'm also going to continue her education.

So we have to figure this out. So when I graduated high school, I was aware of the fact that I was going to be impossible for me to balance at Princeton somehow acting and also keeping up with that kind of academia. So when I was accepted, I went to orientation and sort of imagining my life there. And it's beautiful campus. And I'm sure an extraordinary experience.

And I met some amazing people there. But it was again, that thing, that inner core where I thought, I just, I need to experience the other side. And so I ended up deferring and moving on to Los Angeles and going on like six auditions a day. I didn't know anyone. I used to go to coffee shops literally just to be around people because I was like 18 years old, so I couldn't go to bars or anything. And so I was so lonely so much of the time. That was, that was the stage of my life that I really understood like the depths of loneliness for sure because I didn't really know anyone and I was chasing a dream and I didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah, to talk about the unknown I mean it was like I was like everywhere. I was living in the tornado of unknown and yet I had a determination

in the tornado of unknown. And yet I had a determination that served me really well. And I was sort of seeing all these roles for girls, blonde girls that were sort of vapid and not very interesting, and I thought this is kind of depressing. Like that this is like my, the version of me is sort of this like uninteresting sort of bitchy or dumb stereotype.

Yeah, I grew up on movies like that. Yeah, yeah. I grew up on movies like that. So you know, it's so it was it was it was lonely and depressing until I read a screenplay called Blue Crush. And that was the moment where I thought, okay, I've never served in my life. I've never touched a surfboard. However, I know this girl better than anybody. Like I have an affinity to this person that is I know what it feels to chase a however, I know this girl better than anybody. Like, I have an affinity to this person that is, I know what it feels to chase a dream, I know what it feels like to have an enormous amount of fear and doubt. I just, I can do this.

I can, you know, and it took a lot to get that role. And how quickly did you learn to serve? Well, so, I mean, they obviously wanted to hire a real surf girl. And so I auditioned for it numerous times. And while they thought I gave a great reading, they were like, look, we really need someone with the skillset, understandably.

And so I asked them what their plan was. And they said they were going to audition real surf girls and try and get them to act. And so over the next three weeks. And so I like literally went into the yellow pages found a surf instructor in Malibu. And it's told him I have three weeks to learn how to surf. And so I, and he said, you have to come here like eight hours a day every day.

And I did for three weeks. Yeah. So when you asked me in the beginning, you know, what part of your personality has served you well in that way? Yeah, there we go. This is a great example of that. And I always tell people, my husband and I started a film school in Montana called Montana Institute for the Arts. And I always tell this story because the determination and dedication and discipline that it takes to find some kind of success in this industry,

there is no magic wand. You know, there is no secret sauce. There is no like, how do you make it? Tell me give me the secret. But I truly believe that the determination and dedication and discipline will will really take you a long way. And yes, talent, but those three things I think are critical. Yeah, I mean, that's huge. And the reason why I love that is because it's almost like there's certain qualities like determination, dedication, discipline, desire, that kind of take you outwards and upwards. And then I think there's a different set of skills that take you deeper in inwards. Yes. And it's almost like,

you know, you've got one of all these things that you just mentioned, those are the ones that we know that success in any industry are going to take those things, but then happiness in any industry. Right. I'm going to take everything else you mentioned like vulnerability and compassion, non-judgment and not being critical of it, right?

That's, I just got chills because I was like, that's the phase I'm in now. So I lived, I think, certainly through my teens and into my 20s with that kind of, I call it like be the best D student you can be Yeah, you know and yet I was Finding more and more distance

from that sort of vulnerability and real Kind of connectivity to your heart and also, you know, I was getting older and evolving and And and I, you know, I was getting older and evolving and, and I think, you know, it's so important to me to be connected to the heart and the soul that that was really what triggered this kind of moment of saying, I'm letting it all go for a minute because I just knew I was like, I can't, I can't survive truly as a person in the world if I don't have that Very very firmly in place, you know and that

It takes it takes a lot of courage actually to kind of kind of totally reset You know, you're you're you're soul in your heart that way. No, and that's what I started with that I was like that in my opinion that takes the most. Like the discipline and dedication takes to go out with an upwards, the courage it takes to go inwards is not saying it's harder, it's just a different type of challenge. It is. And so you can't apply the same skills inwards. You can't go, I tried.

I really tried, it doesn't work. Yeah, I didn't, right? Tell me about that because yeah, I don't think you were here. Yeah, no, I mean, I just, I tried to, I don't think what yeah, no, I mean I just I tried to I Was I was you know, I had found so much success in the urgency and the forcefulness in the determination I mean my name Catherine means strong-willed and determined. Yes Yes, so I really do feel and I'm a Capricorn so I'm like a goat, you know, I just get it done It doesn't matter how long it takes you'll get it done So I've always sort of applied that to my life.

And so when I tried to say, you know, and I tried to sort of apply that inward, it was just like a bounce back. It was like that's, yeah, there's no entry way there, you know. Oh, well, thank you. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. Because I think, yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot. And I'll tell you about something else later that I'm preparing for. But that's so much of my thought process right now that the skills that required to go outward and the skills required to go inward are totally different.

And we can and do and hopefully try not everyone does, but most people try to develop the ones to go outward. Some people succeed insanely like you have. And then you're now going, okay, we're now we need to do the other journey. Yeah. And just, I'm completely hearing you, and I'm just letting you take so much courage, it takes so much effort. But how have you found it with, I'm always intrigued in relationships, like with your husband, like,

has he been doing his own, or is he kind of already, and I don't know him, so this is not coming from any place of any insight. This is coming from a totally intriguing point of view, because I found like in couples and in relationships and in marriage or dating, whatever it may be, everyone's always evolving.

Yes. So how have you found it? Have you been evolving at the same time? Did he evolve first? Did you have, you know, how's that? How does that work if you don't mind? No, I don't mind. Yeah.

You know, it was, I feel like, you know, he and I were kind of on a similar trajectory of this real... We didn't notice that it was somewhat unhealthy at the time, but I think because we work together, and we're both so dedicated to our work, and we love our work. I mean, it's an obsession, you know, and it'll always be, I love creating, and as does he, you know, I mean, it's like, it's like DNA. But I think it really, it was, it was me who, who recognized and kind of pulled the rip cord to say, we have to find balance. You know what I mean?

Like we have to find balance and there's so much love there. That was not the question. It was, if everything is about work and then if something's not working and it becomes about, well, I feel like I'm failing. I feel like I'm not good enough. I feel like very shameful.

I feel like I'm not good enough for you. Are you good enough for me? I don't know. Am I good enough for you? Then all of a sudden you'd come into this whirlpool, all of a sudden you're just kind of a bit lost. And it was really this moment where I realized, no actually, I can't look to him to fix me. And I can't fix you. And that was a big one for me because it was, it really kind of played in on that failure thing for me where I thought, oh, that's, that's something that is interesting to observe that it's actually not my responsibility to fix someone else. And it's not their responsibility to fix me. He's 12 years older than me. And when I met him at 28, he was not only someone I fell in love with,

but he was also became my mentor. He also became my best friend. And we have like such an amazing relationship that way. But as I started to evolve in myself and learn and grow, I started to realize that perhaps that leaning on him so much and then him sort of probably pushing back a little bit of that or feeling some kind of resentment or you know, just things naturally that happened with that dynamic. It was something that I had to really, really observe carefully and understand like why I was feeling so out of control with myself. And I thought, well, it's because because you don't feel firmly planted. So the moment that you don't look to someone and say, help, but you look to yourself and say, okay, this

is crazy. This is a wild, free fall, but like you're gonna survive it. Then you can look to the person across from you and say, okay, I've just kinda gone through something crazy. And I'm now seeing things very clearly. I think the thing in relationships that's interesting that happens over time is that you form patterns that are healthy and then you form patterns that aren't, but it takes a lot of time. So if you're not careful and you don't have the communication up front, which is something that,

you know, I really have tapped into a lot in the vulnerability part of things, which is, you know, if you're doing a movie for three months and you're like, oh, I really want to talk about this, but now is not the time. And then another movie comes along and it's another four months and you're like, oh, I really need to talk about that, but I can't really do it on Skype. You know, it's it kind of ultimately create something that can be challenging. And then all of a sudden, there's distance, and then you're not quite sure what you're even talking

about anymore, but you know that there's something that's not quite right. And so for me to kind of just take a minute with myself and really recognize what those things are that I was participating in that wasn't making me happy and wasn't making him happy, literally, we became two people standing there saying, oh, okay, I see you now, I see you clearly. And that was also part of the courage. Yes. You know, the fear of losing what you have, you know, if we stand together and this new

evolved place with each other, is it, what does that mean? You know? And I think that's something that I would really encourage people to talk about in relationships, especially now with you know social media and things where everything's all, you know, weight-pick offenses and lever doors. To say like it does take communication and it's okay to have setbacks because that can indicate progress. But to be able to say, wow, I'm really feeling vulnerable. And I don't need you to fix it, but I just, I'm just going to communicate this. Sometimes it just starts with that. Yes. Yeah. And let the ego go. When one of you says,

hey, I think we need to work on this. Yes. For the other person to respond with no ego and say, oh, let me take a moment. Like, you might be right, but I'm not sure yet. Let me think and then come back and say, yeah, actually, let's work on it together. Because I think it takes that so often when someone in your partner says something to you, like, I think we really need to work on our communication

or something like that, your ego goes, well, maybe you do. I don't, right? You instinctually go, well, I don't think so. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah. And, but I think it's so important that we just put our ego aside and go, yes, like, okay, don't have to say yes straight away, but to really reflect on what someone's trying

to tell you. Exactly. Yeah. And also, you know, to understand that, you know, it's okay to not have an answer. It's okay. And this was part of our dynamic that was difficult, which is, you know, for someone 12 years older who probably felt like, and I want to speak for him, but probably felt like, well, I should probably always have the answer,

because when I met Kate at 28, I had all the answers, and now all of a sudden I don't. And for me to say, well, I don't have the answers either. It's super vulnerable to be able to say that to someone else. However, it really enriches and creates so much depth in a relationship and trust ultimately. Like my three things that I've sort of, I thought like you can see the sort of a type come out with, like what I love it. But the things that I've really thought about a lot

in my relationship is this idea of, and I mean this with my relationship to myself and ultimately my relationship and my marriage, which is the idea of trusting yourself to be vulnerable enough, trusting the other person to be vulnerable with you, the idea of respect to do so and accountability. And those three things. Trash respect accountability, yeah. Yeah, those three things ultimately are, it's kind of like the tripod to strong love to me,

like where I say, for example, to use your example of, hey, I think we need to work on this. Like what's the accountability of that? Yes. Like rather than have a reaction, which I am so guilty of, you know, this is why I had to take my moment, you know,

to say, well, that doesn't make me feel good because it makes me feel critic-critiqued and sort of humiliated. And I don't like the way that that came out to sort of say, yeah, let me take a minute and say, well, what is my accountability in this moment? And like, what's the respect that I'm going to put forth? And what is the trust factor here with what that person's saying? And so it really, I mean, honestly, it is

the journey inward that I'm looking at right now. But you know, I'll tell you, it's really it's created roots that I'm so excited for the next few chapters of my life. I think I'll be to be more comfortable and embrace vulnerability to be a better mom, to be a better partner, to be a better friend, to be better in my career. I mean, it's only going to enrich things. 100% yeah, no 100% and it's just like you said, it's I think that's the best view to have of it and that is the right view to have of it. It's like you recognize that actually the more work I do internally, it can only be a good thing and it's just going to take me through roads and parts that I don't

wouldn't love to be on. Right. But that's just part of it. That's part of it. And I think that's the same you would have had to do when you first moved to LA. Right. When you first moved to LA, you had to probably go to auditions you don't want to go to and you had to hand up places that you didn't want to and you had to do it for that reason.

Right. And it's almost like on the inside, just because you can't physically see those places. But it's the same experience in that sense. Yeah, and it's, you know, I think when I had to assume so much armor as a young person moving to LA. I mean, I really did. I feel like I just immediately suited up and said,

you know, okay, I had to get so comfortable with rejection that it became divorced from me. Like it no longer belonged to me because I had so much rejection at the rate, like the way to survive it and to not give into it are go crazier to like turn inside out. How did you do that? Tell us about it because I think that's such a big thing for people right now. For sure. And of course, I feel like in creative industries, especially acting, rejections like the numb,

you experience rejection probably more than any other emotion. Yeah. I, again, this goes back to just really having a strong sense of self. I realized early on that if I didn't put rejection in its place, like it doesn't belong to me, truly, like that rejection doesn't belong to me because there's so many factors that go into place with with in my particular instance, you know, getting a role. It's the look, it's the feel, it's, you know, that, you know, 300 people that are making the decision. You know, it's there's so many factors that go along with it that that actually weirdly doesn't have much to do with me.

that actually weirdly doesn't have much to do with me. And also, I've always been the type of person that really loves other people's success. That's amazing. I really have. You know, I remember very early on, like 14, 15, 16 when another actress got a role. And I recognized the pain because I wanted it so bad. It was like a heartbreak, you know?

But I was genuinely so happy for someone else because I felt like that was meant for that person. And the moment that I think, well, that was meant for me, but I didn't get it and that person got it. Like I just knew at a young age that that was going to become very insidious. Wow. You actually realize that really early on. Yeah. It's amazing. I think I just didn't like the way it made me feel. It's like I've never been a jealous person, you know, in love or in that sense of career. I can recognize feelings of

sense of career, I can recognize feelings of, you know, my own desire or my own yearning, you know, but I don't like the way jealousy makes me feel. And I've never liked it, you know. Yeah. What, and it's so beautiful. Yeah, it's kind of like, it's kind of like recognizing something in yourself that you're like, you know, that doesn't, I don't like me feeling like that. And so I would rather remove that, than not like myself in that way, you know?

Exactly. Oh, that's so beautiful. I love that. That's such a powerful point. And I love that because, yeah, I think that's what it is with me. It's like you just don't want, I don't like the way jealousy makes me behave. I don't like what I say when I feel jealous.

I don't like what I think when I feel jealous and I don't like how it can be such a consuming feeling. Totally. It just kind of like, you know, not embraces you. It suffocates you. And I think jealousy, you know, jealousy almost is, you know, can come off of that like fear, you know, that fear title of, you know, not getting what you want or losing, but you know, those almost can come off of that fear title of not getting what you want

or losing, but you know, those things play into jealousy, which is really if you look at fear carefully, it is the thing that can infect you in a way that's very negative. And I think jealousy comes off of that. Yeah, absolutely. And I agree. You were talking about some of the roles that you felt at the beginning were like shallow or not letting you play who you truly were and reflecting, you know, like you mentioned, like someone who's just dumb and, you know, silly.

What roles do you think actually helped you explore deeper parts of yourself? Like were there any roles that you played where you actually were like, oh, this is interesting or you learned something about yourself? Yeah. Can we buy some of those? There's a movie that I don't you actually were like, oh, this is interesting or you learn something about yourself? Yeah. Can we wear some of those? There's a movie that I don't think a lot of people saw, but it was during a time in my life, in my early 20s, which you'd ask me, is this the first time that you had this like real kind of cracked open, self-reflective moment?

And it is definitely the deepest, but in my early 20s, I felt so overwhelmed by you know the the feelings of being judged or the sides to this career like fame or perception that I you know I didn't get into it for those things I mean I kind of accidentally fell into it as you know. So it was sort of so surprising and I am a sensitive person that I just, I didn't know how to, I didn't know how to kind of defend myself, like emotionally or spiritually from all that coming at me. And so in my early 20s, I really feel like I had, you know, I don't know if

it would be like clinically described as a breakdown, but I felt I feel like it was a breakdown of spirit in a way. And that I just felt like I didn't know how to exist really as a person and what I did because I loved being creative, but I just couldn't really handle the other side of things. And so that moves into what you're asking me about like red carpet or pepperots here. I had to figure out how to build that in a way that wasn't overwhelming and paralytic. But it answered your question at that moment of my life. There was a movie called The Girl in the Park and it was a movie that was a two-hander between myself and Sigourney Weaver.

And, you know, I think the best roles and I think all actors will say this is when a character comes into your life, a piece comes into your life, when it is kind of, it is connecting with you in a moment that is like lightning in a bottle. You know, where it's like, it's almost like you have to have this kind of revelation with yourself while the character is also having it. Yes. And it's very rare because it's sort of like a shooting star. It's like a, it's a moment. The timing, yeah. The timing is so specific and it's so specific with the character and the director and the piece and the,

duh, but that was one of those moments that I, I really loved exploring that side. And it was cathartic to me in many ways because of what I was going to. And I was able to really connect to a certain pain with myself and express it through my art. And I loved Sigourney so much. And so it was kind of one of those moments where I felt like, you know, I could speak to someone who had life experience and who was incredibly stable and smart and funny funny and she's very like, she's like charmingly kind of little girl like sometimes, you know?

Childlike in like the most beautiful way. I think my favorite creatives are like that, you know, and they, you just don't lose that spirit at all regardless of where you are in life. It's hard like this. Yeah, absolutely. And you've said somewhere that you were, that you, you know, you consider yourself very like goofy

and silly and funny and like, but people don't see that side of me. I know. And I saw that straight, when you, you know, you can see to yourself very like goofy and silly and funny and like, but people don't see that side of me. I know. And I saw that straight, when you walked in today, you're just like walked in like this beaming light and then we were like laughing outside. And I was just like, oh wow, you have this really playful energy about you.

How have you kept that? Like what is it that, like I hope my wife's back today, I really want to introduce it to you. My wife is like extremely playful and silly. I don't know if you follow her on Instagram, but I'll show you. I'm going to. She's just, I love your to introduce it. My wife is like extremely playful and silly. I don't if you follow her on Instagram But I'll show you she's just I love your relationship so much. Oh, yeah It's it's very interesting. We can talk about that But how do you keep that playful like you have that even in your smile and just the being that you have when I'm around you I'm like where does that come from and how do you keep that? I?

I think I it's not something I work at. Okay. To be totally honest, it's really, I think it comes out. How do you protect it? Or do you don't? I think there was a moment in my 20s where I tried to be like a cool version of myself.

And I realized that I just felt like an imposter to myself. And I thought, well, you're just dorky. And I actually really love that about myself, you know? And actually, that really is me. And it's something, it's a quality that I find also disarms people in a way, because I'm often in rooms where everyone's very put to you. And I love seeing people I know and, you know,

I'm phrasing them. They're like, this is weird. I mean, I'm just kind of calling it out. I'm just really, really. And I really, I really, I, I, I like that part of myself, you know, that it's just, it's just who I am, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's the unarmored self. Yes. And so that makes me feel like my best self really, you know.

Yeah, I love that. Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, I love that about you. I've only experienced it today, but, but I really love it. And I hope I get to see more of it too, because I'm super clumsy. I'm very clumsy. I have a friend called Chase who always spots me doing clumsy things, and he always makes a list of them. We had this really serious, a couple of months ago, we had one of my spiritual teachers come and do an event at our home and he's giving the like, it's really like peaceful meaningful message. And I'm like leaning against the wall and they're like, switch all the lights off and on

like, like a light show while he's making those really meaningful points and everyone's like, he's looking at me and cracking up and just like, Jay, like, how could you not help yourself? Like, fine. And it's just like that, you know, and I know there was a big part of my teens where I tried to, you know, come across very smooth, especially to the opposite sex for me. And it was like, you know, with girls I was dating and I was always trying to prove to myself

to be smooth. And then, and that's when you get stuck in the feeling of like, oh, well, I get found out. Well, then when you do something stupid, it's more embarrassing because you haven't shown that side of yourself. And now the other person's wondering, oh, well, you know, this is who you really are. Whereas if you are just who you are, then people kind of laugh at it maybe the first time

and then they start to love it. Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, I feel like, you know, just being very honest with who you are and there's like a cliche kind of like sound to that, but it is true. Like, you know, the word authenticity is interesting because I feel like it's kind of one of those words that's so important and yet kind of weirdly overused. But I mean

it in the truest sense of the word, which is to really tap into that authentic part of yourself where you think this is really me. This is me at the end of the day. This is me with my closest friends, or this is me in a hunger school. And I was like, what am I doing? You know, I'm actually gonna go back and speak to some kids at my high school soon. And I'm so excited to do it because, you know, I graduated with a class of 70, you know, so tiny, and I feel like, you know,

they probably look to me now and think, oh, it's this, you know, inaccessible and obtainable life and world she lives in. And yet, I'm so excited to say to them, like, no, no, I'm still, I'm like you, you know, you're like me, like it's still, you know, keep that. That's really important, you know, and I think that, again, it goes back

to the word vulnerability, I think, you know, I feel like when I armor myself, I try and be a version of myself. And I choose when I do that at very particular moments, for example, a red carpet moment. I don't love them. I feel very, ah, standing on a rolled out red carpet. It's weird, you know. When you explain it like that, it sounds really weird.

It's strange. I mean, it's super strange. And again, you know, it's like. Lots of people telling you to pose in different ways and looking different. Yeah. And yet, I thought to myself, you know what, Kate, if you're just like kind of falling apart and like, not just assuming some kind of an alter ego for like five minutes, it's going to look a little crazy.

Yeah. So like you have to just, just you know pull the Oprah. Yeah. But she found her red carpet self. But yeah it's finding those discerning moments of saying, look, okay, this is the this is the moment where you just you suit up the you know, a really really good friend of mine. Do you know Dr. Nigma? I don't know. You love her. She said to me once, we were going to something, a red carpet event, and she said to me,

we were in the car, and I said, oh, this is always like so weird. You know, when I sort of expressed that sort of vulnerability to her, and she said, you know, whenever I go into overwhelmingly energetic sort of experiences like this, I always just wrap myself in gold. I just imagine myself wrapping myself in gold. And I thought that's actually a really great

way of thinking of it because I always saw it as like, suiting up armor, which is a little impenetrable and sort of off-putting, but to wrap yourself in gold is a much better visual. Yeah, I love that. You know, um, that's doing the same thing. Yeah, I love that. It's sort of, you know, doing the same thing. Is that what? Yeah. It was one you shine and the other one you're feeling like you have to keep the whole world.

Your clothes off. Yeah, it goes off, exactly. And so then when I started to, so what, me too. And when I, so when I started to do that, and that was kind of in my, it's sort of my late 20s. My, my 20s was, I told you the version where I was like, I'm gonna try a cool version of myself

and that kind of didn't work, definitely didn't work. But when I started to wrap myself in gold, I realized that I laughed a lot more. Yeah. You know, there's a lot more smiles rather than cool posing. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure.

And I preferred it. I would see photos here and there and I'd be like, oh, see, you know what? That's a beaming, you know, happy person rather than, you know, okay. It's a beaming happy person rather than, okay, it's kind of cool, smoldering thing, which I get. I do, I get it.

And you do go through those phases in life, but I feel best when I'm not assuming that. Yeah, and I think one thing you've said and it reminds me of it, and I noticed in myself, I was reflecting while I was hearing you speak that you were saying you're going back to speak to your high school and you're excited about it. And I was thinking, yeah, you know,

going back to do the things that make you feel at ease are actually where you find more of you. Like we were talking about earlier, like when you're going on a late night show or you're going, you know, when you're going on something that's very high pressure, time situated. You've got to talk about your TV show, your movie, and as well as this, and you know, there's all this stuff and it's like four minutes. But then when you go to your high pressure, time situated. You've got to talk about your TV show, your movie, and as well as this, there's all this stuff

and it's like four minutes. But then when you go to your high school, it's like they're gonna let you probably talk for as long as you want. And there's just this freedom of expression. And you've just made me feel like, it's giving yourself more opportunities to do that. It's one of the reasons why I love this.

It's just giving yourself an opportunity to find and get lost and find yourself again. You keep that essence. Yeah, and I think, you know, I was thinking, as you were talking and talking about, you know, I just had this press tour for the island and I'm so proud of the show. And I'm proud that, you know, I produced it with the network. And I think you actually comments it on this photo. So this is the kind of balance that I'm looking for.

Oh gosh, okay. This is the kind of balance that I'm looking for. And it was truly within this moment of self realization which is, I'm committed to the work of promoting the show. And I'm really proud of the show. However, at the end of the night. Don't tell me what picture it is.

I think I picked it already. Is it this one? Yes, it is. Yeah, that's also. And that was kind of, that was such a great example of, it was a real, it was a great example of self-care and letting go, honestly, of, of everything else that is the perception, right? You know, rather than showing up to something, you know,

the cool fashion crowd, which I love, it's fun. And I love fashion. My father was in fashion, so I really do love it. But for me to eat a bunch of room service with a spear on the floor was heaven, you know? Yeah, it looked amazing. That picture's so great. And I love this too.

It's like, and I love you sharing that. Yeah. Because I think it's, you know, it's so easy. Obviously you're this too. And I love you sharing that. Yeah. Because I think it's so easy obviously you're on a tour and you're promoting and I know you did a bunch of other late night shows and all the rest of it. It's fun to show that, but it's so great to show this. And yeah, I'm glad that you're doing that. That's a good stuff. I mean, it's all good.

It's all important. It is all good, yeah. But really, when it comes back to what fortifies the spirit, what connects to the heart, if that inward motion isn't connected, then all the other stuff isn't going to be as strong anyway. And without trying to give too much away, you play a very confrontational character in the outlet, right? No, she's so...

It's like in your own life, you're kind of going in and in here this one, you're like, I don't give too much weight, but... Yeah, it was a really great experience for me because I don't often get the opportunity of playing a character, you know? And this was, I'm so grateful to Netflix. There's so much fun to work with and they're so collaborative because I said to them You know, I was able to really form this character with them and I said I I want to Exercise the power of restraint with this character. Wow, which means

You know with the show, you know, you have a bunch of people waking up on a deserted island and their memories are wiped And so the opportunity in that... Love that concept. The opportunity in that for an actor is all the characters up front, but the plot is not there. And that's a rare opportunity. Normally, when you're watching a show or movie, you're understanding the character and processing the characters you're going along because you're saying, oh yes, because that happened to them and that's their experience.

And of course, that's why they are. Yes, yes, yes. So with this opportunity, you have these kind of weird reactions from this character or a way that she says something that's really strange or off putting, and you're wondering why. And so I said to the network, I want you to take this leap with me because I think there's going to be a lot of intrigue with her, with less set up front. She'll be a question mark that people really kind of lean in and say, what is going on with this person?

So it was amazing that they allowed me to do that because as you watch the season unfold in episode five in particular, like her world just totally cracks open and you just have the aha moment. Yeah, that's exciting. That's exciting. I love that. And I love hearing you explain the creative process behind it.

Does that make so much sense that you wouldn't see that? And I wanted to touch on Nona because it was self-finance, which is amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. Which is incredible. And it's sort of human trafficking. And when someone self-finance is something, I'm like, wow, like this is deeper and even more meaningful than any work that you could do, I guess, because you believe that much. And tell me the story about what brought that together and why

that was so powerful for you. It was really, it's been such an extraordinary experience. You know, my husband's really a brilliant guy and he is so courageous with his work and I am just amazed by him with what he does. You know, he not only writes his screenplays but he directs them and now he's shooting a lot of his work. So he on this movie, you know, wrote the screenplay, directed it and shot the movie as well. So it's pretty extraordinary. It's not a lot of people who can do that. So it's pretty extraordinary. It's not all people who can do that. And he came home from work one day, and he said, I just heard this story on NPR

about a sex house that was busted not so far from her own home. And he said, at the moment at the time, it was a few years ago, he said there was 44 known sex houses, you know, in the Los Angeles area, which really means a lot more. And he said, I just feel kind of shocked in a little embarrassed that I didn't know more about this and that it's prevalent in our backyard,

but all over America, it's not someone else's problem. It is something that's happening here. And Mike's a real artist. He said, I want to use my voice in my art to shine a light on this issue and to bring it to the surface. And so he asked for my blessing to go off and write the screenplay. Because it takes so much, I think writing

is the most unsung hero of the artistic process because it takes so much discipline and time and processing and thinking that's arduous and yet you don't see it. You know what I mean? It's so mental and so he spent some time writing the screenplay, which is about a girl named Nona who is from Honduras, from Zampage, Rousseau, and a young boy meets her there. And says, oh, you know, you shouldn't be here. You should have a better life in America. I have an aunt. I'll bring you across the border.

And you'll have a totally different life. You'll soar. And she takes the offer because her life is so poor and so lonely and so tragic where she is. Michael chose San Pedro Sula because it was known as the murder capital of the world. And so to understand the why and the how, people take opportunities like this, it's because life is so much more dangerous and sad and difficult than the potential you know, downfall of what could happen to them. It's less risky to take that chance than to stay where they are. And you know, for us, we thought if we can create more empathy

and humanity, ironically, it's called human trafficking, and I think we're losing the humanity of the issue. It's faceless, it's very highly statistical, and so we thought if we can put a face to it, though it's fictional, and he drew on a lot of his research to put into this character. But if we can create connectivity and empathy and humanity in this issue just through the story, then it's important. And so Michael was adamant about the known of being an unknown because he wanted to bring a,

he wanted her to be faceless and nameless. It's the point of the movie. It's all in Spanish. Michael, he's half Mexican. His mom is from Mexico So he has a whole side of him in that culture that he really treasures And so he wanted the movie to be in Spanish and And he shot in the most dangerous parts of the world which was San Pedro Sula Guatemalan all through Mexico

And so those three things were very difficult to get the right kind of financing. And so, you know, we really, we sat, we had a finance year and like, it was about six days before everything was in place, you know, like tickets were bought, you know, we had everything set. And I think it was about six days before where he was meant to leave. They pulled out and I remember he got we got the email we're driving and he's like, let's go get a drink. And we sat at a bar downtown and we both got a whiskey and we just sat there quietly and I just looked at him and I said I'll do it, you know, I'll finance it because And I just looked at him and I said, I'll do it. I'll finance it because for me to have the position of executive producer financier and

be on the ground in LA and with a fellow producer, be looking at all the sort of logistics of how to do it, let him go and tell the story. And he was carrying a whole different type of torch. You know, it was the way that we could find balance and making the movie, but it was really, it's our, we always sort of jokingly say it's like our first child. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But it was something we really felt was important. And you know, it's, I work with an organization called Cast,

which is the Coalition to abolish labor and trafficking. From this process, we realized early on that we need to have relationships with people who are really on the front line of this issue and understand it better and more deeply in terms of how we can help. And I've since learned that it's obviously not just an issue in which it's an international issue coming into the United States. The foster care system is really overrun by these predators looking for kids to human

traffic. And it's a really hard thing to even say or hear, but it's important to know. Absolutely. Yeah. No, thank you so much for using your platform and your production and all your skills to tell such powerful and meaningful stories Both of them both that I learned in this because I think they're gonna spark thoughts and people's minds in different ways and different themes and yeah Thank you. It's amazing. Thank you. So awesome. So we we end every episode of the final five Okay, which are like a final five rapid-fire quick fire

Okay, but they're never rapid or quick, because I get to, no, I get too interested. Everyone's very talented and does it. They're like, okay, tell me a bit. So you're allowed to do the same. So the first question is, if you could only, and I know you're a big reader, so that's a very, oh gosh, if you could only read one book

for the rest of your life, what would it be? That's so hard. That is such a hard question. Or I can give you an easier version. I mean, I guess now that you're being vulnerable. And the question I would say is... I can tell you the last book I read that I really loved. Tell me that. And also tell me what's the book you've gifted the most? You know that's a good question too.

What's a book question. Yeah. What's a book that you love people to read? Well, interestingly, I really love Stellalis. And the way I got that role was because I ended up tweeting another great relationship through social media. I ended up tweeting to Lisa Genova, who's the author of Stellalis. And I just said, I have to tell you how much of an impact this book made on me. And I truly recommend, I mean even if you've seen the movie, really read the book because I had grandparents who suffered from dementia and Alzheimer's and it is a firsthand account of what it feels like

to go through that experience as that person and it made me a better granddaughter to not be afraid of how to handle that. It created so much empathy and understanding of what that might feel like. So I tweeted out to her and said, I just have to tell you how much I love and admire what you've done. And it's totally changed my relationship with my grandparents. And then we became friends. And I said, have you ever thought about making it into a movie? And she said, it's so weird they're actually doing that right now and you'd make a great Anna.

And that's how that all came together. That's amazing. That's a book I'd highly recommend. The book I read recently that really I found quite astonishing was a book called Three Women. Have you read it? No, I haven't. No. It's truly an astounding piece of work.

It is nonfiction, but it is written in an incredibly narrative way. She, the author, followed three women, living different experiences in their lives. And really, it's very carnal. It's very revealing and explores desire and sexuality and insecurity and what it means to desire and what it means to be undesired and how that affects you.

But it's so extraordinarily written. Like, that's a book I'm giving out. Thank you, yeah. Though I will say, I'll give it a little like, you know, asterisk that it is, you know, it's a book I'm giving out. Thank you, yeah. Though I will say, I'll give it a little like, you know, asterisk that it is, you know, it's, it's a. Provocative. Yeah, it's provocative.

Yeah. But I like things that are provocative and really kind of can be shocking. I really love Maricommy. You know, he's an author that I've read almost every single one of his books. Gosh, you know, and then I love, you know, I've read the little prints more days than I can count, you know. And that's the side of me that like I cry every time the Fox talks about taming the little

boy and the Rose and how she's more special than any other Rose because she's her, you know. So that's a book I give out quite a lot. And the Giving Tree. Thank you so many great words. The Giving Tree makes me cry. Yeah. You know, so it really runs the game.

I mean, that's a real run the gamut kind of. That's cool. I love it. Great answer. It's beautiful. Not quick fire or rapid fire, but I love it. You spoke about this a little earlier before we started properly, but it was, you know, I was going to ask you what your favorite self-care tip was and you were talking about how, you know, horse ride, like people meditate, you horse ride. So yeah,

but what's your favorite self-care tip or thing that you do for your self-care and relaxation and refueling? It doesn't have to be horse ride. Really, I find reading, for me, reading is very important. I'm most connected to myself when I'm either reading great literature or I'm very excited about your book, by the way. Thank you. Really, I mean it. Because it's the people who inspire me and give of themselves through writing that I find a lot of grounding in.

So, for example, I've been doing a lot of reading the last run. And underlining things and asking. But also one of the things that I find quite honestly difficult, and I think it's probably my first step into meditation is just being comfortable with Quiet and being on your own I find that quite confrontational which is when I know it's good for me. Yeah, you know um and I think For me being physical is important when important. When I'm not finding regular activity or exercise, I find that I have a lot more anxiety.

Whereas if, you know, I think that like honestly one of the great, you know, great pieces of advice I was given once was, you know, if you're really in a moment where you're, you're feeling an enormous amount of anxiety or fear go for a walk. Yeah. You know, get moving. Yeah, moving. I love that. Okay.

Awesome. Question number three. What's one thing you're learning right now? Something you're trying to learn? What's one of five? One of the five. Yeah. What's one thing I've learned right now?

Learning. Oh, learning in the process of. You know, for me, it's really about being comfortable and the unknown. That's the big one for me. And it's a daily practice. Yeah, definitely. To say, well, I just don't have the answer for that yet you know and to understand that it's a process and it's okay and there's actually a lot of a lot of there will be a lot you know a lot of strength that comes out of that

patience you know it's funny I said when I when I sort of you know when I when I pulled I say I pulled the rip gourd on on my life for a moment, my husband had said to me really early on in our relationship, honey, I love you, but you need to learn how to be a more patient gardener. And I literally said in my wedding v because we wrote our own bells. I vowed to try and be a more patient gardener. And interestingly throughout this month, and I took a lot of time, you really not talking to anyone and just being on my own, including him, which is for him, he was so brilliant because he said, I was afraid. I was afraid to say I need to take some time alone. I didn't know

how he would take it. I didn't know again going back to the fear of losing what you have. And he had so generously said, you take all the time you need. So I had literally said in my vows, I promised to try and be a more patient gardener. And so when he had said you take all the space you need, and I took over a month of truly self-reflection and understanding the power of saying, I don't know, or I am comfortable slash uncomfortable and the unknown, but that's what it is. When I wrote him a letter actually, when I surfaced again, and one of the things I said was, I'm starting to learn to be a more patient gardener. And that was a big thing, and he understood.

Like, that was where he said, okay, I understand now. That's the growth spirit she's going through. And it takes a lot. It's sort of like really coming out and sort of spreading things and evolving in a whole new way. I was just saying, yeah, I think you articulate confusion well, which I think is very useful to a lot of people because usually we articulate things well in hindsight or we articulate how we right feel

right now pretty badly because we can't find the words, but I think you've really probably helped so many people through this interview put into words what they're thinking and feeling. Oh, thank you. That means so much to me. Yeah, I mean that. No, I mean that. Okay, we've got two more questions. Okay.

Question number four. What's one book you'd love to turn into a movie? It's funny that I didn't know that story before. There might be a... I know. Yeah, I can imagine if you just hit like the easy ones. If I did like what's a good one? I don't know if I have to answer. Haha, that's cool. It could be the three women. Yeah, honestly, that was the one reason.

When you said that, I was like, while I would be able to move. It's the one that, oh, there's a book as well called the evidence of things in the scene that the female character's name is Opal. And I really, really love that character. And I love that world because it's a history in America I really love but that's a book I'd love to turn into a movie and I love the title. I think the idea of, I actually talk about this a lot, funny and off the importance of the evidence of things unseen and it actually kind of ties into the little prints because obviously one of the most famous quotes is,

you know what is essential is invisible to the eye. And I think that really is like again going back to the core of what we were talking about that's important to me is love. That is the most important thing to me. So the things that speak to me really are that. Yeah. Amazing. And question number five, what's a message that's in your heart right now? A fun, a vibrant message that's inside you right now that you want people to take away from listening to this episode. No fear only love

That was the only rapid fire on I love it. Yeah, thank you, Kate. Thank you so much. Oh my god. I love this conversation. is just so awesome. And I want everyone to make sure you go check out the island on Netflix. Check out Kate's Instagram profile where she shares very open on its candid pictures and a bunch of other great stuff as well. But thank you so much for sharing so openly, so vulnerable, so authentically, I'm not just throwing those words around because I think they all make sense. I'm saying them because I just just I've been feeling the energy here So whoever's not in the room right now. I just know that I've been sitting here face to face

I try with you and I've been feeling all everything you've been saying so thank you for opening up Thank you for trusting me and and thank you for doing this Oh, thank you for the test. Yeah, and I hope Yeah, and I hope this is the beginning of a new friendship and learning lots more about each of the things growing together. Well, I hope so because otherwise I'll be a stalker and not very good. No, really, I mean. I love that.

I'm a lifer. I'm one of those people that are all like that too. I find my people and then I go deep with them and that's what I look for in life. It's roots. Yeah, it means a lot. Thank you so much. Thank you. Amazing.

Thank you. Thank you. Oh my God, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. Oh my god. Thank you. Oh my god. It was so great. Yeah Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, host of the Deeply Well Podcast, where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your wellbeing journey. Deeply well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment,

to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to Before Breakfast on the iHeartRadio app,

or wherever you get your podcasts.