On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Nick Kyrgios ON: How to Deal with Being Misunderstood & Stop Trying to Live Up to People's Expectations

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Tired of being misunderstood all the time? Are you looking for ways to stop living up to other people's expectations? Then this podcast is for you.  Today, Jay Shetty welcomes world-ranking professional tennis player Nick Kyrgios. Nick burst onto the pro tennis scene in 2012 after a prolific junior tennis career. Since his start he has captivated fans with a larger than life personality, passion for the game, and unpredictability. Kyrgios has won 7 singles titles and 4 doubles titles in his career, but 2022 marked the first time Kyrgios displayed his dominance making it to his first Grand Slam Final, winning 3 singles titles, and 3 doubles titles. He also reached the Quarter Finals of the 2022 US Open beating then-ranked No. 1 Daniil Medvedev and is one of the few players on Tour who have beaten the Big Three (Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal) at least once.  In this conversation, Nick opens up about how his strong personality online has sparked hate and negativity - how misunderstood his persona is and how different he is with friends and family. Nick also briefly talks about going through self-harm, dealing with depression and addiction and turning the most difficult phase of his life into a pivotal moment to have the best year of his life when he reached the Wimbledon final. He also talks about looking at life beyond tennis and what awaits him in the future. In this episode, you will learn: How to accept your flaws How to overcome fear and anger How to turn your life around How to deal with negativity How to become your best self A truly inspiring story begins with a challenge and ends with a triumph, and Nick has just proven to us that success isn't elusive when you dream big and work hard for it.  With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:43 Enjoying Some Time Off 03:53 Nick Used to Hate Playing Tennis 05:31 Misbranded by the Media 07:26 The Effects of Promoting Negative Content 10:17 Dealing with Mental Health in Silence 12:42 Getting Out of the Darkest Moments 17:09 How Hard Work Led to Wimbledon 19:05 People Only See the Anger 21:24 People Will Always Have Something to Say 24:57 Being Okay with Leaving the Game Behind 26:53 Nick Talks About His Injury 27:43 Would You Spend Time with Your Haters? 30:26 Playing the Character of a Villain  32:43 The Best Crowd to Play For 35:28 Who is the Nice Guy Nick? 36:56 The Scrutiny a Celebrity Athlete Goes Through 40:32 How Media Can Negatively Affect Your Mental Health 46:27 How Strong Boundaries Make Relationships Work 51:04 An Old Conversation with Drake   53:46 Happiness is Spending Time with Family 56:41 The Many Breakdowns that People Do Not Know 01:01:12 What’s Keeping You Busy These Days? 01:02:27 The Best Places to Visit 01:03:48 Regrets of Losing a Loved One 01:07:32 At Peace with a Disheartening Loss 01:08:40 Learning How to Bounce Back Right Away 01:09:55 The Hardest Lesson You Had to Learn 01:14:02 How Stress Can Affect How You React to People 01:18:22 Why Would You Break a Racket? 01:21:12 Routine Consistency is Hard Work 01:23:12 The Struggle of Letting People Down 01:26:09 Nick on Final Five  Episode Resources: Nick Kyrgios | Website Nick Kyrgios | X Nick Kyrgios | Instagram Nick Kyrgios | Facebook Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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for 40% off. Calm your mind, change your life. My whole life now revolves around what I've achieved on the court, but then if I could do it again, I wouldn't ever want to pick up a racket. It's one of the greatest players in the world. Winner of Seven Tour singles channel. It carries us. I literally wanted to end my life.

And now I'm just here and enjoying it. So everything is just... it's all a bonus. Everything's just, it's all about us. subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me. The best selling author in post. The number one health and wellness podcast. The purpose of Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose, the place where we have culturally impacting conversations. I am so grateful to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.

And you know that ever since I was a teenager, I've been captivated by people's stories and journeys. I'm fascinated by decisions people make, their personalities, their psychology. And today's guest is someone that I've been admiring from afar for such a long time. And so to have him in the studio today is a true honor and true joy.

I love diving into the minds of people that define culture, divide culture, direct us in different ways, surprise us and give us the unexpected. And today's guest has been doing that ever since his career began. I'm talking about the one and only Nick Curios, who burst onto the pro tennis scene in 2012 after a prolific junior tennis career. Since Nick's star, he has captivated fans with a larger than life personality, passion for the game, and unpredictability. Nick electrifies the tour with his near unstoppable serve and powerful forehand.

Nick is one seven singles titles and four doubles titles in his career. But 2022 marked the first time Nick displayed his dominance making it to his first Grand Slam final, winning three singles titles and three doubles titles. Welcome to the show, Nick Kirias, Nick. What an intro. You have to live it, man. I like that. That's probably the best intro I've ever had. Really? That means the world to me. I like that. I appreciate that. I'm really glad to be here. I was excited.

I appreciate that, man. When we were messaging back and forth for the past couple of weeks, I was really looking forward to this because as I was saying to you earlier, I don't love rules myself. And people don't often see me as that. I think people see me as someone who follows the rules and is thoughtful and mindful. And I actually feel that my entire career I've had to go against the trend and a great to grain. And watching you do it has been really exciting and fascinating.

And at sometimes it can be uncomfortable to watch that as well. But today we get to pull back. Unravel it all. Yeah, we get to dive in. So I wanted to start off. There's so many things I want to talk about. What I'll start off with is externally you've had what looks like a love hate relationship with tennis. And at this point you're injured. You've been away from the game. I'm intrigued to understand how is your relationship with the game changed when you haven't been able to play it? This is a tough one for me because when I step away from the sport for so long,

I actually don't miss it. So that's scary for me. Most athletes, when they get pulled away from their sport injury or take time off, they're really hungry to get back with me. It's like, I've always kind of known that life has so many, so many cool things about it. Whether you know, and tennis, you know,

we're traveling seven, eight months a year. I barely see my family, my friends. And during this time, it's like I get to see, it spends time on my partner more, my family, do all these things that I've been missing out on. It's like, wow, my life's amazing now. But, you know, I do miss to playing tennis a bit. You know, it's all I've ever known since I was seven years old.

You know, my family loves it. You know, all my friends, you know, know me as to playing tennis a bit. You know, it's all I've ever known since I was seven years old. You know, my family loves it. You know, all my friends, you know, know me as Nick Curios tennis player. So I do miss it a little bit, but the same time I've really enjoyed the time off. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. It's good for the honesty that, you know, like people, people forget that we're human. Yeah. We need to break sometimes. What's your earliest childhood memory that you think has defined who you are today?

Well, I hated tennis when I was young. So, you know, I was very chubby overweight as a kid and my mum kind of, she was like, okay, we've got to get you doing some sport or be active. So she dragged me down to the local tennis courts and I remember I was crying all day, hated it, didn't want to be there. Anyway, I gave it a chance for like, you know, a couple of weeks, couple of months and the coach was like, oh,, I gave it a chance for like, you know, a couple of weeks, a couple of months, and the coach was like, oh, he's picking it up pretty quickly. And then that was, I guess, that was a defining moment. Because ever since that coach said that, it's like my father and my mom put everything

into tennis, you know, a sacrifice. You know, my dad and my mom had nothing growing up. And I guess they kind of saw me as the person in the family to eventually, you know, try and make it and help and help them out and help the family out. So, look, tennis was such an interesting journey. I never thought, I was 17, 18, still in school and people were telling me you could really do something.

I never took myself seriously enough to one day be on the tour beating people like Jock of itch and Adolfoet it was just never in my mind and all of a sudden it just happened and my life changed. It's like, I have big imposter syndrome. Like I'm sitting here, I watch you, my bed in my house in camera. I'm watching you, and then now all of a sudden I'm here having a conversation. Like that's just for me, it's crazy. Well dude, I feel the same with you.

I'm watching you play all the major tournaments. I'm watching you on breakpoint, and I still have to pinch myself that I get to do this. So the feeling is very mutual, and I want you to know that too. And you know, a big part of that for me watching you is I think, and I chose not to introduce you this way, but I think a lot of people would introduce you as the bad boy of tennis. How does that title make you feel today? Yeah, it's been hard.

That's one thing the media has done. They've branded me as, you know, I don't know. Like, I'm crazy, I'm a bad boy, but my family and my closest people know that. I'm quite generous, I'm quite caring. I'm intellectually switched on. I like having deep conversations. And I try my best to make other people feel comfortable.

Like, I know what it's like to be overweight, insecure. Like, I love, when I see kids that are a bit like, I guess myself at a younger age, I love that. I go up to them, I make them feel, look, if I can do it, you can do it. So that's been one of the hardest things in my career is like, everyone I meet thinks that I'm just a bad person. I've got crazy tempo, but then off the court,

it's like a complete opposite person. And it's been really, really hard to shake that. And it's taken years. Like only now I feel like people kind of understand how I am on the court and how I am off the court. But it's been hard. How early did that title set in, like that idea of Nick Kirios melt down again, Nick Kirios break, breaks a racket, like, whatever, like, how early did that set in and how

did that impact it? Probably the first couple of years I was on tour. And that was almost 11 years ago, and it's been an uphill battle ever since. You know, everyone thinks that I'm that type of person, but it's like, I've gone through my whole life trying to prove to people that that's not me. And it's been really hard, like all the media backlash

and negativity, all the negativity on my family, my partner, like it's not, it hasn't been so easy to navigate, but I think getting older and growing through it and getting thick skin, I've kind of given up trying to, you know, make everyone understand who I am, because it's exhausting, and it's, I don't think it's possible, everyone's going to have their opinions, but it's taken a toll, like I'm definitely a bit tired of being branded that. And it's sad in a way,

because people only really wanna get to meet me, to meet that side of me, which is not how I actually am as a person. How much of it early on was self-inflicted versus, was that just you trying to deal with the pressure and the stress? Like, why did that? I've met you just now.

You're smiling, you're easy to be around, you're chill, you're cool. When we were messaging, I was telling my team, I was like, this guy seems like one of the nicest guys. Yeah, everything you just said. But then when someone watches you on the core or watches you in a press interview, you could be intimidating.

How much of that became a persona you felt, you ended up playing versus where did it actually start? Was it that you were stressed and there was pressure or? Well, I guess, yeah, when I'm on court, I turn into a different person. I love competing and it's like a hate losing. And I guess when I was a younger kid on the court, I always carried my emotions, I would cry on court,

I would scream, I would just, I'd love to compete and hate to lose. And I guess I never changed, whether it's, I mean, I don't cry on court, I would scream, I would just, I'd love to compete and hate to lose. And I guess I never changed, like whether it's, I mean, yeah, I don't cry on court now, but I still am very emotional, and I just, it just shows how much I care. I feel like it was a way for me to outlet the pressure, you know, get angry or smash a racket, but the thing is tennis can go for four, five hours.

I'm actually going for four, five hours. And then for that small snippet of time, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, I'm losing my mind. And that's all they're showing. Like if you just show 30 minutes of a four hour match that everyone's gonna show, that's how he's carrying on for four hours. Like the majority of the time

I'm well behaved, great competitive, respecting my opponent, then I look, I turn on, you know, say the TV, it's just me, smash the rack and I'm like, I can't control that. And it's been hard. Like most of the time I am, how I am now, but it's been a tough one.

Yeah, you were saying, I've watched how you talked about how it's impacted you, it's impacted how people communicate with your girlfriend, like the kind of backlash that you receive. What has been the darkest, hardest period of dealing with that, whether it may be a media narrative or fans reaching out, whatever it may be. Yeah, in 2019, I've opened up about some of the darkest periods of my life, and it was so accessible, all these negative comments.

You go on your phone now, you open up social media, Instagram, Twitter, all this, and I just say millions of messages that were negative, negative about my family, like just things that I feel like, I didn't really listen to, but they just went into the back of my mind and subconsciously, they're just there.

And then when things start happening, you're like, maybe they're right, you start doubting yourself. And I feel like that's what I fell into. It was like, maybe they are right. And then I started feeling really negatively about myself and I started all these bad habits happening. And it was impossible for me to deal with.

I was 19 at the time when this all started happening and I wasn't prepared for such a I guess such a hard time like I was just enjoying myself. I had normal friends And then I went from being in school to now being on the global stage in the spotlight And it was just impossible for me to deal with. I never really dealt with it in a healthy way at all. Yeah, you talked about in breakpoint about drugs, alcohol, isolating yourself. You talk about even considering attempting suicide. And then we hear that you locked into a psych ward, but we don't really, what you went through. They walk us through what it felt like to be Nick Irias in 2019. It's just the, I think, about those times and I don't necessarily feel sad about it.

I'm all happy about it. It's just that part of my life is over and it's just a mess. I think about that time I just was not thinking clearly. I was drinking every night, you know, just at the time I thought it was just fun, but it wasn't fun. It was just self-inflicted pain and I had friends around me telling me it wasn't healthy and I ignored them. And then I found myself going to a psychiatric ward in London and I had to play in a dollar next day. And these are the things like everyone would assume that I was doing fine, I was answering questions and they told me that I should stay in this psychiatric ward for two weeks and be reassessed. I was playing a dial the next day. I looked

to myself, I was like, I can't do this. I have to somehow change these habits. I had self-harm everywhere. I had to wear an arm sleeve on the center quarter of Wimbledon. No one knew any of these problems. It was hard. I look back and I just don't know how I knack like got out of it to be honest. I was such a mess and the worst thing was the media. I was having decent results during that time and the media was like okay is this a new Nick Curie? I said this is the Nick Curie and I was like this is the darkest period of my life. There was a tournament in Mexico, Acapulco where I was thinking about I was having suicidal thoughts and you know I was just on the balcony of my hotel and I was genuinely thinking about it

and my team was like, oh, we've got to play in 10 minutes and that I'm going out on court, played amazing, won the tournament and everyone globally was thinking, wow, is this the person that we've all been waiting for when I was really on the brink of everything? And that's so scary. Cause no one else knew what was going on.

It was really hard. I mean, that paradox of feeling that way and then having to play the biggest games and then even winning some of them, but then feeling that way when you're off court again, that sounds like one of the most difficult, like just listen to you right now, I'm listening to that going, I was just pricking myself in that position thing

and you're sitting there at the balcony, like I can't imagine what's going through your mind. How did you break through that? Like how was that not the end? Because I feel there's so many people listening right now who might be feeling like you were then, and I want you to talk to them. I want them to hear you right now,

because I want this to be the message that they say that got me through it. Um, just everyone, I felt like I was very selfish at that time. I was always giving into my feelings, which were, they were probably valid, but I felt like I was playing just based on how I felt. And then I looked back at millions of fans that I have and that I, you know, for instance, there was a maker wish kid that I met up with a week and a half ago. He's probably got six months to live. And then I realized that those types of people that look up to me and really want me to succeed, that's who I started playing for. So family, these like kids, the future generation, that's the reason why I probably would have retired and probably stopped playing, you know, a couple of years ago, if I just kept

playing on how I was feeling. But then I realized I've got a whole continued of fans on why they want to see me succeed. So that's why I love playing now, like I play for them, but that's what got me out of it. I started feeling like I've got a lot more to give, not for me, like I've already proved myself that I can play tennis, but for all those people out there, like if I can do it, like you look at Jockovic,

Federer and Adalak, these people are gods in my eyes, like they're super professional Jockvić takes care of me. They die at daily. I was not doing any of these things and still getting to that level. So I think if just the inspiration for other people got me out of that, but it was really, those times are, in there are definitely times now

where I think about those moments and I still get a bit emotional on it. Like break point obviously showed showed interviews with my sister and my father, my best friend, and they break down into tears and that just shows how emotional that time was because they could just see me spiraling out of control. And I hadn't, I didn't think it was okay to just step back

and not play. I kept thinking I had to force myself to get out there. Yeah, definitely was traumatizing. How much did it mean to you that they stood by you? Yeah, I mean, I probably owe them my life to be honest. You know, they were standing by me through reckless behavior. And that's what I'm... Everything, that's what I mean, like people now are going social media

and they're like, oh, you're a waste of talent or why you're not playing or why you're not doing this. And everything I'm doing now is just a bonus. Like being here speaking to Jay Shetty for me, it's just, that's like a, it's like all a bonus. Like every day, I just don't think about the past, I don't think about the future, I just live every day, day by day.

And I just, everything I'm doing now is just a bonus. Like, because I was so, so depressed and so sad and like, I literally wanted to end my life and now I just I'm just here and enjoying it so yeah everything's just it's all a bonus yeah that's a beautiful way to live yeah it is yeah it's a beautiful mindset to live in just I just stay on my feet I don't think about the past or I don't I'm a not a big planner anymore because I just don't know anything can be taken away just like that. Yeah, I mean, I think listening to you, it's so interesting, right?

When we have views on athletes, especially where we're like, oh, you could have been this and you could have been the next greatest and you could have been whatever it may be. And the challenges you have, no idea what that person's going through. You have no idea what's worrying that person. And I think everyone almost projects their own insecurities onto everyone else where we also feel like we have so much potential that never got seen, that never got untapped.

And to almost live it in the way you're living now, which is like, I'm already living in Bonusland. I mean, I feel like that in so many ways in my life where I am able to do things today I'm already living in bonus land. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that in so many ways in my life where I am able to do things today that I couldn't even have imagined as a kid. And we can actually, we have a lot in common growing up because I was, and I heard you say this and I felt the same way, I was just, I was a short, brown, fat kid growing up at school.

Yeah. And so when you talked about that in breakpoint, I felt exactly the same way where I was bullied for it, I was beaten up for it, I was criticized for it. And when I look at my life today, I'm like, I get to do things that I didn't ever think were possible. So I'm already living in bonus world. So grateful for it. So grateful for it. So grateful for it beyond. And whether I reach the potential, what people think I should do, or whether I don't, I'm already living in that gratitude. With you, when you're playing at the

top level, and there is that feeling, so when you find out you're going to make it, you've made it through to the final of Wimbledon. Walk me through what the feeling is when you know, like, I've made it through to the final of Wimbledon, like, which is the biggest stage, the biggest moment, you've made it through. What does that feel like? I was laughing inside. Like, I had no back jokovic behind me. The royal family watching me play,

and there's like, guards there, and I'm just like thinking to myself, I don't, this shouldn't be me. Like, the way that everything had panned out, it was like, I just thought it was all a joke. I was like, this is incredible. How am I here in this moment in time? And yeah, I was walking out to the court

and I just, yeah, like it's like every single thing that I'd gone through, training, family sacrifice, it all, that's the one time my life where everything made sense. Everything made sense. Every gym session, conditioning session, every good meal I decided to eat was all equal to that moment in time.

And it's like I didn't sleep the night before. And then as soon as I stepped on court, all those feelings went away. It was like, okay, I'm now home. And then I lost the match, but I played incredible. It was a great final, but I just remember seeing the doors open real slowly, and I saw every blade of grass the same length and I just walked out there and it was just like home.

And then that was it. I just, I'm not disappointed that I lost the match. Obviously I would love to have a win-win crown, but it was all bonus. Like the fact that I was just walking out and no Vax behind me, the royal family's there, like Nick Curios making it that far, ridiculous. When I hear you speak, you speak like every,

almost like real, it's almost like that childlike feeling of like you're still living in that childlike moment or childlike feeling of what that would have felt like, where sometimes we grow up too soon and we almost can't experience it that way. Like when you just said you saw every blade of grass being the same, like even that mindfulness, like watching the doors, the fact that you can visualize it,

it means you are so present, what goes through your mind during the game when it's not going your way. Like what happens when you start losing a point or when you know you could have made something you didn't like what's going through your mind at that time? Just competing, like just trying to get the best out of myself. Like, I guess people when they watch me play like,

why do you get so angry? It's like, there's millions of dollars on the line. So many hours of work put in, and I'm just trying to like do the best I can in that moment of time. People wouldn't, they say me, I guess, getting angry or doing whatever, they're like, he doesn't care. It's like, I don't think I care too much at times on the result. And coach is always telling me,

like, don't care about the result too much. But in my life, in my experience, if you don't win at the end of the day, I wouldn't be here. If I didn't win majority of tennis matches, I wouldn't be sitting here. So I know the importance of winning, but at the same time, I guess I just,

I'm just so involved in every little bit of efforts being, I know my family's effort, my support crew, I want everyone in my team to feel that I care the most. I want success for all of us. Not, I don't care about just me, my physio is there, my partner is there, my best friend, my agent, we're all contingent. And that's why I guess I love the team environment

a little bit more. By tennis, people just think, you're on your own out there, but it's like there's so much more than just me, everyone's put so much work in to get here. So you anger's actually your care? Exactly. I wanted to win women, so then like my whole team, like, can share that with me. I don't really care. Like, I actually don't really care. And I wanted to win women, so I could just shut everyone up, and so I could be just left alone. So if I'm at home, and I'm actually having a beer beer or I'm just chilling, people will just,

oh, what are you doing? I'm like, I want to win, but you can't tell me anything. You're in like your immortal in that tennis world, you know? Like I made the final and people still criticizing, I feel like if I'd won that, maybe it would start. So you feel like when you're playing, you're trying to win because you feel so many people have invested in you and so many people believe in you the people that you care about and that

You almost want to win for them. Yes, and to shot everyone else up That would be nice. I'm excited to see you go on and win a few like I think you have the potential and the ability and you know The mindset to go and do it, but When you go and win you know as well as I do that, that still won't shut people up. I know that. I know that. I just, it just false hope, I guess.

What is that false hope? Walk me through that because I think that's real. I think we all feel, right? This is, this is the hypothesis. We all feel that there's something we can do that will finally convince people of who we are. And we're all waiting in our own way to do that thing. For you, it may be a game of tennis. For someone else, it might be a promotion. For someone it will be graduating with a particular degree.

For me, it will be interviewing someone, whatever. Like, we all have that thing where we think, when I do this, then people say I made it. Yeah. Why is that? I don't know. I feel like if people really understood my journey, then they wouldn't be so pushy, I think. And like if I just sat down with all my haters and we had like a nice meal together

and I gave them my size, sorry, I think they'd have a better understanding and they wouldn't be so like, they wouldn't criticize or be so aggressive towards me on social media or just in general. So I feel like maybe if I do win-win-win-win, and like, I was so close, and I don't even really love the sport. Like, I'm only doing this because I love taking care

of my family and my people, and I wanna do this so I can prove that, no matter how much more I have an unadogged UI, you can achieve something like winning win wouldn't it? Like that's, I never thought in my mind that I'd be capable of doing that. And I look, mate, you are right. I know that even if I did that, people are going to be like, all right, now do it again. And it's just like, that's the rat race of life.

You know, how much is enough? And I feel like I'm very content with my love now. I have more than enough to enjoy. And so if it was up to me, I probably wouldn't, I don't really want to play anymore, to be honest, but I have to almost, I've got so much more to give. But for me, I don't, I don't think I've played anymore. And that's not your way of taking the pressure. No, it's not like I'm exhausted. I'm tired. And, you know, I have had three surgeries now that I'm only 28 years old.

I always wanted to be able to have a family and not be in pain. And I'm gonna get up, I can't walk without pain. So it's a tough gig, it's tough. I appreciate the realness because it's that, you know, there's a couple of things that come to mind the first thing that comes to mind for me is always, I'm a Christiana Ronaldo fan,

through and through, like, if anyone asks me, CR7 or messy, I'm CR7 all the way. He's the example for me of, you can achieve everything. And there will still be 50% of people. Who do you think the someone else is better? Yeah, someone else is better.

And not even just better, they think you're not even in the conversation. Like there's a 50% of people who will be like, well, CR7 doesn't even make it into the top two conversation. And it's bizarre that you can even feel that way. And so that, I look at it through that perspective, where I'm like, this guy's one everything. He's inspired pretty much every next generation

of football players in the world, yet there are people who have an issue with him and blows my mind. And then at the same time, what you're talking about, the reality, I appreciate you saying I'm exhausted, it's hard. You know, I remember interviewed that Vanessa Bryant did, Kobe Bryant's wife, and she talked about how the only thing that got Kobe to play when he was injured or having an injury during a game was his love for the fans. And he would say that this fan paid to see me play.

And if I don't play today, then that fan may never be able to afford to play again and so I have to play. And so he was playing for beyond him. It wasn't, I've got to play because I've got to win another rim. It's really interesting to hear an athlete say I'm tired, it's a tough gig, it's hard. Because I think we almost want to believe that the best athletes don't feel that. But that's not true. No, it's not true. And I guess that appeared in 2019 kind of accelerated my exot like, if I had a bit of a normal career and I flew under the radar

I don't feel I feel this way but those couple years really I think put a lot on my age like I'm 28 But I feel like you know I've traveled to pretty much every country. I've seen cultures, you know I was traveling to countries and I was 13 and I saw what you know poverty was like it really opened my eyes And I guess those couple years accelerated my Almost pushed me to the end of my career a bit earlier because I was just, I felt that way and I was so eternally hurting that I had to play for more than myself. And that's why now I do, I'm exhausted when I train, I'm like, I just, I don't want people to watch it and say, okay, soft or whatever, but it's just like, it's just hard,

like I'm tired, I'm tired of playing tennis. Like it's more than going out last year, had the best year in my career. And I'm playing in front of millions of people, stadiums packed out, everyone's eyes on me. I don't know if an athlete loves that, but I'm a bit to that. I feel like a circus animal a little bit. I walk out there and like,

oh, we just want to see a curiosity, something crazy. Like I'm sick of kind of playing that role. I'm sick of playing. Like I go have to turn to a completely different person. I'm sick of kind of playing that role. I'm sick of playing. I go have to turn to complete different person, and I don't like that. It's exhausting. Do you think when you come back, how are you trying to figure out

how you'll approach it differently? Have you thought about that? Well, I think now I've kind of come to peace with only one to play for about another one to two years, and be at the top and guide out my own terms. I would hate to have another surgery or anything like that. So I think I've still got the ability to have a good one to two years,

and then that's it. I think I'll be at peace with everything I've achieved. And you're right, I'm gonna have to just say, look to everyone out there who wants me to play more, you're just gonna have to be okay with me not playing anymore. Yeah. Well, people are trying to figure out

whether you'll be playing in December. You're obviously, like you said, you're obviously like you said You're in pain even when you stand up like How do you deal with that anxiety of like people want me to play in December? I don't even know if I'll be better yet. Do I enter? How do you know? It's hard because it You know, I'm going to the gym. I'm doing my rehab You know, you might have something seriously wrong with your body and it takes time like we're only human I'd love to be like a no vac or someone that just is always healthy almost.

It seems that way, but it takes months and months of, you know, strength, consistency, dealing with you to get back to playing tennis at that higher level again. Like, I don't want to get back on tour and just place decent. I was competing for Grand Slam so I want to get back to that level. So it might take, you might take a bit more time. Yeah. I want to go back a few things when you were saying, like, if you could take all your haters out for dinner and hang with them.

So imagine we were at dinner, and all the haters are here right now. What do you want them to know about you to understand you deeply? If you could say three things to them, to understand you more deeply and intently, what would you genuinely at the heart want them to know if we had the floor with them right now? I guess I would want to listen to them more. I'd be like, why do you dislike me so much? Because I feel like when I'm reading all these comments, they really truly don't like me.

And I feel like I don't dislike anyone that I don't know like I just think it's ridiculous to Have an opinion or or that person's this one. I have no idea who they are or how they are So I would just ask them like why do you dislike me so much? And then I would make them open up and then I guess because I think For instance, I use my girlfriend as an example. So my reputation in Australia is like arrogant His crazy is volatile and as an example. So my reputation in Australia is like arrogant, he's crazy, he's volatile, and having those three things when you're meeting a person for the first time, they put three pretty rough things to like already assume of someone. So I had to prove,

every time I meet someone new, I have to kind of prove to them that's not me. And so I asked them, what was the first three things you came to mind? And then she told me those three things. And so that's how everyone in the world that hasn first three things you came to mind and then she told me those three things and So that's how everyone in the world that hasn't meant before assumes I am and that's that's pretty brutal like how those three things are they're terrible I know hanging around with one person is arrogant or volatile or crazy so I think and she just spent time like two times with me and then she's like, you're like completely different to how the media pains you out to be. So I guess every hate, I just think something like that, I'm assuming. So I would just try and prove that I'm not like that.

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and helps us grow. Connecting changes how we live our lives for the better. How did she give you the time of day to, like, make you believe that, because like you said, for a lot of people, they're just, and you've been together for a bit now. Yeah, two years now, I'm coming up, but, you know, I just bought a mirror off a small company.

It was just excuses. You know, just an excuse like, how am I gonna get her to just give me the chance? And I feel like these people that hate me or don't like how I go about things, they just, they won't even give me a chance, they won't even listen, because they think that I'm crazy.

And do you think you just started playing the character at one point, like that? Definitely. Well, that's, you know, at the end of the day, you know, money's important. So I knew that that Nick could, that's the one that everyone wanted. They didn't give, they didn't care about how I actually was.

They just wanted that one. Like, brands just wanted to work with that one. Wow. And that was hard. Like I was like, every time I do something brand-wise, early in my career, I was exhausted. I got home, I was like, thank God, that's over. So I could just be myself again,

and I'd meet people and they would just want that. And how did you know that? Were there people in your vicinity, telling you that, or like, because that's fascinating, like the construction of talent is something that I think the average person is so separated from. Like when I moved to LA five years ago and I coach him work with so many different people

in different parts of whether it's music, acting, athletes, and you start recognizing how their management and their teams want them to be a certain persona, whether it's like you've got to show that you're single because otherwise people won't be into you if you have a long-term relationship or you've got to be this way so that this brand won't want to work with you. How much of that was in your ear? Were you hearing things like that

or was it more in your own mind? It was more in my own mind. I think my team now have only ever wanted me to be happy and be myself. And I know that, that's why I keep them around. I have a really small circle, but I knew that brands myself. And I know that, and that's why I keep them around. I have a really small circle, but I knew that brands, just that, I knew that they wanted that Nick,

and that's, it's sad in a way, because they don't even want to get to know me. Like, as me as a person, like we wouldn't even sit down, have this conversation with, they just wanted me to be that, the one they see on the court, like be the entertaining one.

And it's like, I'm not like that after all. I'm very chilled out. And yeah, I just, I feel like most people just want to meet that the one they see on the court, like be the entertaining one. And it's like, I'm not like that after I'm very chilled out. And yeah, I just, I feel like most people just want to meet that one. Yeah, because it sells tickets, of course, gets attention, gets the headlines. That's right. It makes a moment out of it. When was, when was the day where you felt you played that character really well? Like, when would you say you're like, you know what? That was the best acting gig I ever did. Where last year at the US Open was good.

Like Arthur A. Stadiem in New York is the biggest stadium that we have. And it's crazy. You go to the back and you look up on the plane. It's just like a wall of people just like glaring down at you. And that's the coolest thing about tennis. There's no way to hide like if you're playing it. If you haven't a bad day, you can't sub out. There's no one to play here position.

So you're just there and I just feel like New York and the Americans, I feel extremely at home here. I feel like they really do enjoy when you put on a show and you do some crazy stuff out there. So every time I was stepping out on that court, it was like, like five minutes before I was in the locker room, I was like, okay, I got to, I got to be more of that nick tonight because I do appreciate the love that the American fans do give me. But yeah, every match was a bit of a show. Do you feel differently about different places around the world? You've traveled, of course, as a tennis player.

You travel everywhere. How do you feel like when you're in Australia versus when you're in the UK versus when you're in the US? Like walk me through the differences you experience as a player in the media and everything else? I hate playing in Australia. If you're going to air this, obviously, people think that most Australians love playing in Australia.

But there was one kind of moment that ruined it for me. I was playing second round of the Australian Open. I had some match points. It was like a four and a half hour match. I'd lost second round. I remember getting boot off the court in Melbourne and that was one of the worst feelings for me because I remember after that match I was, I locked myself in the physio room with my physio and there were just people knocking it on the door like I had to do media, I had to do this

and I was just, I turned the lights off and I was just so overwhelmed. Like I'd given my absolute all in front of my fans for four hours and I'd lost the match and I just got boot off the court. And for me, that really ruined, that put a sour taste when I'm out playing in Australia. And I know now, like, I've had some great results in Australia and they have been behind me, but I don't forget things like that. I feel like if I loved someone and I understood the effort

and the hours I put in, I would never do that. I'd never blew off one of my hometown heroes. So, and that's why I guess it's affected my relationship with Australia, you know, playing for the country. It's because I've been battered in the media there. Like they've said some horrible things. Like there are some Australian legends that have told me and my family

to go back to where we come from. And I just don't forget things like that. I've had Layton here who had called me on my phone and say, why don't you want to play for the country in the equal, everyone here wants you here. And it's like, yeah, but no other player in the country is dealt with the backlash or the negativity towards their family, their guilt, like me, like that hurt.

So I guess playing in Australia for me, I don't really like. Alondon, I just don't fit it there at all. Like Wimbledon, it's a crazy feeling. It's like the documentary said, it's like a snowman in the desert. It literally is. I walk around there, everyone's like, oh my god, he's wearing like a, I could be wearing like an anime shirt. They're like, oh, the quality is wearing.

Everything I do there is like under a microscope. And that's a, that's a cool feeling. I guess Novak would kind of understand what that feels like too. It's like the villain, you know? It's like no one wants to see you win. No one's to see it. And you made the finals. Yeah, people like Peerers Morgan just throwing absolute venom at you. And that's why I feel I love playing the US Open because I feel wow, this is at home, like the energy's amazing. And they bring that energy that I have and I love playing there. So Australia and England are a bit, I don't like playing there, but US I love it. Yeah, good to, yeah. I love Asia as well. Asia's amazing.

Asia too. Yeah. They just they just think Asia just love entertainment They love something different and they're respectful, you know That I think they get the thing that people are different there, but yeah, I love I love playing in Asia as well What would have changed if you were allowed to be nice guy Nick From the beginning like and and people Perceived you as you actually are like how do you think that would have impacted? Your game your career, the work? Well, the first five years of my career, I was almost impossible to get any sort of deal

with anyone because they just thought I was volatile, crazy. They didn't want me representing their brand where I feel like if they knew how I was and actually like a nice guy, that would have helped, I worry it would have made a lot more money. I probably would have been more at peace with people actually knowing that I was a good guy. Because for a minute there, I thought the whole world thought that I was just a terrible person.

I feel like it would have helped me. I definitely don't think I would have fell into that dark period in my life as well, but co-versely, I don't want to change that because that makes me who I am today. Obviously, I know everyone kind of says that, but when I opened up on social media about it, there are a lot of people that now open up to me daily. I've got people around of says that, but when I opened up on social media about it, the amount of people that now open up to me daily, you know,

I got people around the world that, you know, I give them my number and I've had phone calls with people and tried to articulate in a way that it's okay. You're like, that's completely normal what you're going through. But like, please keep reaching out to me, stay in touch to me if you need any help. So that's been the most powerful thing in my career at the end of days, helping others getting through rough patches of their life. All the accomplishments, I don't actually care about them. I don't, all my people know, I don't ever sit there and talk about what I've achieved.

Like, I don't really care about it. I think that's all a bit superficial, but the platform that I have now is amazing what I can do with it. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? As a professional, we assume that complete control is a demonstration of brilliance. When the reality is that when you're playing something

you love, it's natural to be passionate. And like, I think, I mean, I'm not an athlete, but as in, even if I'm playing football with my mates, if I miss a shot, I'll miss a penalty. I could take it very seriously. And I don't see, that's a sign of passion and caring and enthusiasm and energy. It's not a sign of, I'm not caring.

They're not caring, or being angry at someone, or being mad at my mate, it's my mate. He's always gonna be my mate. But in that moment, it's like, dude, you should have put that penalty away, right? And, but we've tried to make, especially in tennis. Yeah. It's almost like there's no space for passion and personality, especially in tennis.

Yeah, it's a very, look, it's a white privilege sport. So I was, I was behind the April from the get go. You know, I was, Khaled had some, you know, big personality, wall of the emotion on my sleeve. So I was always trying to play against so many more people than just so he was down beating the best players in the world is already hard enough.

You know, the training every day, the diet, the discipline, that was already hard. But me, it was like I was playing against millions more people every time I went out in the court. And I think that's why I'm a bit more exhausted than the average tennis player now. When someone goes out there, they're not, they're just playing against who's down the other end,

but I was playing against the media. I was playing against, because I knew that every little thing I did was such a microscope. And even if I had a flawless match, I was like, oh, that's how it should be anyway. But then the minute I did something bad, it was like, oh, here it is.

See, that's these true colors. I was like, I couldn't win. I actually couldn't win. And then if I was well behaved and disciplined, it was like, oh, no, it's boring. So it's like, okay, which one do you want? And that's how I've always felt like on the tennis world that they haven't embraced me.

And that's why I've got such a big chip on my shoulder now with the tennis world. It's like, I don't know anyone, anything anymore. So that's been the biggest. It's just been a whole country, like a walking contradiction in my entire career. It sounds like a lot to carry. Yeah, it's just been a whole country, like a walking contradiction my entire career. It sounds like a lot to carry. Yeah, it is.

It is. And I think that's why I fell into that dark space because I knew that I couldn't win no matter what I did. How did this, I wanted to show you this. Yeah. This one. Take a look at that. It's from the boss open stupor June 2023 I believe

Don't look happy Yeah, I was just This was when me come off my knee injury and I had a pretty pretty serious operation and I just knew that Physically I will probably wasn't ready to go and It's hard because even when I don't play or even during COVID, the tennis world used me as a kind of one of the key marketing points to keep, I guess, the sport afloat whilst you're in that period. And that's been one of the hardest things as well.

It's like from a sport that's given me so much negativity and kind of treated me like an outcast, they still use me as someone that they you know put on the front cover for You know tickets or getting people to be there So it's like I know that I just get treated so poorly in the tennis world It's like it just honestly. I look at that photo. I just look that I'm just spent like I just so must there's just no energy there And it's sad because I'm just in front of a camera doing another interview because the tournament needs it. Yet, I know that if I, which I did, go on to lose that match, got hate for it. So, yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

It really is. Are you trying to heal your relationship with tennis and the industry, like, for yourself? In the sense of, it almost feels like you have, you carry, there's validity to this, of course, like you carry like a sense of like pain and stress and victimhood to the industry because there's been so much pain caused to you. Is there any part of you that's trying to heal that so that you're not carrying that bitterness towards

the industry? I think so much damage is being done from, I guess, because when people ask me, like, if you had your time again, would you ever pick up a racket? And I genuinely have thought about it, and I don't think I'd ever play this sport. Like, I don't think I'd ever pick up a tennis rack.

And that's such a scary thing because it's like, my whole life has been built off tennis. And if I had this again, like to go again, I wouldn't play tennis. And I think that's, that's so hard and it's so dark. Like my whole life now revolves around what I've achieved on the court, but then if I could do it again,

I wouldn't ever want to pick up a racket. And that is like, and I'm genuinely being honest. Like I've had conversations with myself about it, but I don't think I can repair the damage that I guess the sports brought up on me and just anyone. Like, the amount of stress that is put on my family has, you can't heal that. Like, you know, about six months ago, someone came to my house with a gun and pointed at my

mum to steal my car. And I never thought that I'd bring that up. Like I live in Australia in a nice neighborhood like where things like that just don't happen. And it's just been hard. Like I never thought I'd deal with things like that. A trauma that my mum has now gone through. I don't think I can repair my relationship with tennis at all. That's amazing that you've been able to take care of yourself and your family and figure it out because a few years going into your Dennis Rodman.

care of yourself and your family and figure it out because a few years going to be Dennis Rodman. And it was one of the toughest interviews I've ever done because he was in a really bad place at the time. I don't know him personally, so I don't know if he's better now or, you know, where he's at. But all I remember was that in that interview, he was, I could ask him what his purpose in life was and he said to survive another day. That's where he was at. And a lot of it was because of how he'd felt treated by the media, because he was like, you know, Dennis Rodman was everywhere when, you know,

not only was he successful on the court, but off the court, his whole life was documented in some of the ways. And he was the wild card too, like in his persona. And it's just fascinating to me, like it's almost like until someone crashes or until someone burns, we don't realize

how heavy media, and like I don't think our brains are wired for millions of opinions to write about us and our performance and our families and our life and I think the amount of people that are now dealing with that today who are in the spotlight constantly has only increased. There are more people in the spotlight and there are more people criticizing people in the spotlight. And I don't think we've ever stopped to think about. And when someone is as honest as you, you can only empathize to think,

yeah, we don't realize the damage we're doing to people because I don't think it's tennis that you're mad at as a sport. The activity, it's what comes with it, is what it sounds like to me. Yeah, definitely. It's not playing tennis. No, because I enjoy it. I think tennis is a great sport

and everyone who plays it, I can see how it's enjoyable and it's great for you. Yeah, it's more so. I think Kari Irving, I love some of his stuff because he says like, I don't think people want to say

words can actually hurt someone a lot. And I've told, I've said the exact same thing like fame and social media, it's all man made, like it's someone's not supposed to deal like supposed to wake up and then see such negativity feed into their brain constantly every day. And like how do you expect someone to just perform or just survive with that much negativity? And I have conversations, obviously you wouldn't understand, but I have conversations with some of my friends

about it, no one can understand that because it's not normal, like you're not supposed to see all that negativity, you're not supposed to deal with it. And I don't know, I guess I've kind of run out of answers or solutions as to how do you deal with that? Like yeah, you can speak to people about it But it's so overwhelming and how do you stop it? And you're right until someone really crashes and burns then you're like, I think we push it too far

But that's human nature. We all take things for granted and we all don't understand our actions until you know, there's a reaction but Yeah, I mean, I don't like to word it in this sense that I'm just surviving, every day I'm just surviving, but it does feel like that for me. That's why everything's a bonus. If I'm here tomorrow and I'm enjoying it, I'm eating Chipotle and I'm going to see watching Lakers game or Eclipse game, that's amazing. That's awesome.

I never thought that I'd still be here doing those things, but obviously Dennis just couldn't, obviously articulate any other way. Like that's how it is. That's how it feels like at times and just a bit dark to say it like that, but... Yeah, he was in a dark place, but I guess that's just what it feels like for me half the time as well. Why I was saying is the amazing that you've been able to be more upbeat and kind of positive. And I hope you keep finding that because just from the few moments we spent it I could tell you like you like having a good time You like smiling you like laughing you like you know like

There's a positive energy that surrounds you from the moment you walked into my home today Yeah, and I hope you always hold on to that because You have that natural ability to make people feel good and and have a positive energy and I hope you never lose that because it is seems to be who naturally who you are. It's so easy to go down the other track. How have you managed though with your relationship too? Like, obviously, you're quite public about your relationship. Like, how have you managed to maintain that in a positive way as well? Because that seems to be a positive part of your life, a part of your life.

You're like sharing a lot of your life that you took my earlier, like, but having a relationship in the spotlight is very challenging. So how have you managed to keep that in the spotlight, but then also keep it positive? My name's Leverene Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of the Leverene Cox Show.

You may remember my work-winning first season. I've been pretty busy, but there's always time to talk to incredible guests about important things. People like me have been screaming for years, we've got to watch the Supreme Court, what they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil, they will take things away, and I can only hope that dobs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece.

And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always measurable, is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the LeBern cox show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. The person you think you know best, turns out to be someone else entirely. And in a world where everyone is trying to fix themselves, fix their minds, fix their bodies, what does it look like when we settle into the reality of what it might mean to be unfixed?

And what if you were kidnapped by your own grandparents and left with an endless well of mysteries about yourself and those around you? These are just a few extraordinary puzzles will be exploring in our ninth season of Family Secrets. With over 32 million downloads and nearly 100 unique stories in our feed, we continue to be in awe of our guests, whose stories of courage and tenacity about breaking through the walls of secrecy never fail to amaze. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of Family Secrets.

On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'll get your podcasts. All on my hand, there, this is Womorva Durama, executive producer of the new podcast, Day My Abuelita First. Part of I Heart Radio's Michael Tudor Podcast Network. Each week, host V. Cortes and Abuelita Lilliana Montenegro will play matchmaker for a group of hopeful romantics

who are putting their trust in Abuelita to find the mandate. Your job right now is to get an Abuelita's really good site. Our Abuelita definitely knows best. On date, my Abuelita first, three single contestants will buy for a date with one lucky main date or except to get their heart. They have to win over Awe Lita Lilliana first! Yes, we are ready for love! Through speed dating rounds, hilarious games, and Lilliana's intuition, one contestant will

either be a step closer to getting that bandulsa, or a step closer to getting that chankleta! Let's see if cheesepuzz will fly or if these singles will be sent back to the dating apps. Listen to Dave Mayawali, the first on the IHAR Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I was very... that just comes from experience as well. I've had relationships prior that, you know, we're toxic and they didn't end up going well. And I think the thing I love about my relationship now, we have such strong boundaries and respect for each other. Like we don't, and with social media and relationships in general,

like boundaries can be a bit soft. And I think, you know, I come from a back home where my parents have been together for nearly 40 years. And they're still, they argue and they joke with each other, they get in each other's nerves. And you know, I spoke to my mom about it. She goes, patience is the biggest thing in a relationship where communication and patience,

and I think like my girlfriend's a bit more younger than I am, but we've sat down, we've set our boundaries and respect for each other, and I think that's why it works, because we understand it. If being in a spotlight's brutal, like for relationships, it's always when people try to tear you down,

send a message here or there, like even liking a, like these type of things and I've now realized that I have to be diligent with these things because it's a respect thing. Like on social media, I guess that's like who you are and today's N80s, who you are, who are you on Instagram, who are you on Twitter. So you have to make sure that you're ticking every box on those sort of platforms. But yeah, like, and my girlfriend gets it and she listens to me. If I hadn't, I have all these experiences, she wouldn't listen. So she knows that I've been through a lot and she trusts me as well. So she's very, she does listen and we have a great relationship. Yeah. Yeah, the boundaries part is so important. It's so important. Yeah. You know, like, if I

always have this example, like, you know, like, if, if she was like pregnant with my kid and my phone just popped up, we've like, you know, girls just like liking my photo and stuff, like that plays a path and that builds up, you know, tension and then it just explodes. So, you know, I try and tick every box and make her feel comfortable and respected. And especially, it's heightened because we're in the spotlight so much.

So I try and do everything I can to make it feel comfortable. Yeah, no, it's, you know, I think it was, I remember my wife and I had been together for like three years before, no, we'd been together for, we'd been married for three years, and together for six years before we did something together publicly on social media. And I felt that that was so important for us because we'd been together for a while, but then when social media started to

take off for me and the content that I was making, we were just still like finding our foundations and like figuring it out. And I can't imagine if we would have been active on social media together in any way earlier than that for us. Because I think I was just figuring out what it meant for me then she was figuring out what it meant for her. And I feel like a lot of people, it doesn't matter whether you have a platform or not, we're not having those conversations

and figuring that out with another human being. And even now, even till this day, my wife has different priorities on social media and what she wants to share than I do. And it comes with so many interesting question marks. We had someone ask us a question of like, oh, well, you post about your relationship but she doesn't like, does that mean there's an issue? And I was like, no, it's just we have different ways.

Like, I love sharing about our relationship. Yeah, me too. She likes keeping it a bit more private. Like, that doesn't mean that there's an issue. But it's so fascinating how everything gets taken out of context. Yeah, I think most relationships, the problems stem from social media. And, you know, I've got friends that have very healthy relationships with different standards on social media, And you know, I've got friends that have very healthy relationships with different

standards on social media, like you said, but I feel like to give the relationship the best chance of working. You need to see eye to eye on those things because in my previous relationships, the standards on social media weren't the same. And they weren't as respected for both sides and it didn't go well. But here we have, we see eye to eye and I think it's a crucial part of it because again, social media, what is it? Like, I didn't grow up with social, I had a flip phone and I remember the first time when Instagram became a thing and it was like, used to share a picture of a flower and stuff.

Now it's like a whole business. It's like it's just evolving and it's changing. So I think you need to have, it's so important to have these conversations because they, unfortunately, it plays a huge to have these conversations because they, unfortunately, it plays a huge part in relationships it does. Yeah. Another thing that came up on social media was your interaction with Drake.

Oh, I see. Okay, you posted, did you ever get together? Well, the thing is, we didn't, our beef was so, so ridiculous. Like, I was 19 and I just said, I came out slow, so I'm not going to listen to Drake. I said it jokingly and then he came out and said, oh, who is this guy? I'll chop him down. And I was like, all right, you're five, you're like five, nine.

I'm six foot four. And then he reached out after win-win and then I went back and I would love to. I mean, I would love to get him on my stuff. But I mean, I also respect these guys have so much going on in their life. And if they speak to me or send me a message, that's a bonus. Yeah, it comes back to all that being a bonus.

So I do love his music. I'm just going to say that. Yeah, so do I. Yeah, it's good. And, but no, it's funny. But that was an old conversation. Yeah, old conversation. Yeah, that was funny.

That's funny. No, I mean, I think, I mean, I think you guys did a podcast there. We don't. That would be cool. I think we're really good. Well, let's put it out there. I think That would be cool. I think we're really good. Let's put it out there. I think that would be cool.

That would be awesome to watch. No, it's, I love what you keep going back to, man. I think it's, you know, I've met so many people who have achieved incredible things, but they've lost that childlike view of it. They've lost that, not that they've lost gratitude, but they've lost that feeling of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. Like that feeling of magic and it feels like you've held onto that.

I think that's the only thing I, like even just driving to your house today, like I was like, this is insane. Like I just, I love, yeah, I just love, like I have utmost respect for everything you've created. Like you must just look back at your journey and be like, well, like this is sick. And I love reminding people of like, not that they need it, but like it feels good when someone comes into you and actually is like, dude, well done, like good stuff because I can only imagine how hard you've worked

for everything here. And like I feel like the normal person doesn't really realize how hard someone has to work to achieve all this. You didn't just put your hand into a raffle and pull it out. And be like, okay, I'm Jay Shady, and how with all this. And I just love making people feel that way. And it's because it's, you know, we all started from something so small. And I think that's so cool.

And how you find a way to still let yourself feel that way. Yeah, sometimes I like making myself feel good. And it's not in an arrogant way. It's like, I just think I've done some pretty cool things, like, you know, whether it be on the tennis court or collaborations with people, like it's a, it's cool. And I think for the viewers that are gonna watch this, like, it's not like you just,

we just started in this position, like we were just normal people. And we didn't really ask for everything that came with it. We were all trying to figure it all out. What's been your proudest moment off the course? I guess any time I'm with my family and you know where having a good dinner together, we might be eating at a restaurant and just all together, just any moment like that for me now is the best.

I just feel like we were, because during that period when I was really unwell, I didn't talk to my family at all. I didn't, you know, speak to them. I gave them, I put so much stress on my family. And now when we meet up and we have a gathering and we're all there and we're just having some good laughs. Like, those are the my favorite moments now. Like, the simplest of things are so, make me so happy now. Yeah, do you do a lot together during the holidays coming up? Yeah, we're gonna, there's so many, you know,

we have the annual Curious Christmas party. Like things like this. Tell me about that. Tell me about the annual Curious Christmas party. So every year, there's like in camera, like three to 400 people come through our house during the night. Three to 400 people.

And then they're coming and going. There's always a theme. Like this year it's Gatsby. So everyone's gonna be in suits, cigars and stuff. So it's good. Last year was like superhero supervillains. Like those types of things now are amazing. Like I can't wait to just see all my loved ones family and friends. And that's what I look forward to now. And yeah, I guess everything that I achieve is, and then people like ask me that they're like, no, you're just being humble. It's like, no, I genuinely just

love simple moments like that. So good. Yeah. Yeah. What you were, no, you're just being humble. It's like, no, I genuinely just love simple moments like that, so good. Yeah, yeah. What you were talking about, you've been inspired by the next generation. Walk me through a moment you've had with like a young fan or one of those moments that you feel like that stays with you and that keeps you motivated and keep going.

Well, I guess my game style is, you know, unorthodox and, you know, I'm playing crazy shots in crazy moments. And when people send me videos of, like, their young kids playing, they're trying to hit a tween or they're trying to serve like me, that's cool. I think someone that I kind of look up to is, like, Alan Iverson, you look at his basketball game and you look at the culture he left, you know, the way he dressed. And some of his press conferences are hilarious. And I think he had his own style and people wanted to be him.

And I think when I, when it's all said and done, there's gonna be so many people around the world trying to play like me and play the shot that they're not supposed to play. And because it gives them that thrill. So I think if that carries on at the end of my career, that's something pretty special. Yeah, it's very cool.

I remember, I still remember the Alan Iverson Rebok, I am why I'm at Vets. Even if you had Rebok back in Australia back then, but in the UK we had these ads. It used to just say, I am why I'm an Alan Iverson kicked it off. And it stayed with me ever since that day, even though I maybe didn't even follow the brand and the sport that much, but still it stayed with me.

Yeah, he's like the definition of that. Like I will just love his press conference, so good. Because he was just like a definition of that. Like, I will just love his press conference so good. Cause he was just like a human. He said like, I cry just like you guys, you know, I'm not the best every day. I don't feel like working. I don't feel like showing up. But, and you expect me to do all these things.

And I think, yeah, we're just normal people towards athletes or people that, you know, have a lot of things going on. Like, they just lose, they're bit of compassion towards those people, I think. Yeah, you've mentioned crying a few times, I was wondering when was the last time that you like really cried or something that really made you cry? I probably could have broken down a couple times during some of this conversation, but I try not to, I try to control it a little bit more these days. I just feel like I used to cry a lot.

You know, I've had conversations with my, you know, my mom, heaps of people. I feel like I can break down so often. Just because things are just so raw and they just have, it's like if you pull the wrong string, I feel like at any moment in time, I probably could get really emotional. But I think we do need to be a bit stronger than that at times. But yeah, my dad, I draw a lot of strength from my dad. You know, he's, he never cries and he was always, he's like the strong person in our family. So I try and look, I look up to him a lot with that type of stuff. So yeah, I mean, I used to cry a lot, yeah.

But do you see, do you still see crying as a weakness or you've seen it as a good outlet as well? I mean, you're obviously feeling that way for some reason. I think it's not good to let it in. It's not good to bottle it up. During this conversation, I felt like crying. And because you've touched on things that are so emotional. And I think that if I don't try and be stronger, then I'm always going to, you know, someone's going to watch this.

I don't want them to think it's like the only way is to open up and cry about it. You can be strong about things and I still feel like crying, of course I do, but I feel like I need to be a bit stronger than that. Yeah, that's an interesting, I like that kind of nuance because of course I believe it's healthy to cry. I think it's necessary to cry sometimes when you feel a certain way,

but at the same time I agree with you that the ability to know you feel like crying, but keeping it together not for performance or not for the sake of how other people feel, but you're almost strengthening your ability to deal with an emotion. It's an interesting nuance, because I feel like the world used to tell men,

like you can't cry. And then it became like, you should cry. You't cry. And then it became like you should cry. Yeah. And then there's like this in between, which is the reality of like, I can relate to what you just said. Where I'm like, I like crying sometimes, I think is important.

But then there's sometimes where I'm like, no, actually, I wanna be able to hold myself. Like I just gave a, it was my sister's wedding like two months ago. Yeah. And I didn't anticipate how emotionally it was my sister's wedding like two months ago. And I didn't anticipate how emotionally it was gonna be. So my sister's like five years younger than me. She's been my baby ever since you grew up.

She's a little kid for me. She's short as well. She's short of the me, so it's like, she's literally like a child. And I knew her wedding was coming up and all the rest of it. You put yourself for it. I kind of prep myself, but I didn't realize how emotion was going to be.

And Indian weddings are like... Huge. I got a guy. He's going to be watching this for sure. He told me about, he sent me all the videos, nuts. You guys are crazy. It's crazy. So it was five events over seven days. And every event has like 300 people at it.

And so we're out there and I was more emotionally drained after that week than I am for my whole year of like giving and helping and everything that I do, that was the most emotionally moving week of my entire life. And I walked my sister down the aisle and if you watch the video, I'm literally trying and I'm doing what you just said you had to do, I just had to hold back. Because I knew if I cry and she sees me cry then she's gonna cry then her makeup's gonna go back

Then she's gonna be mad at me later that I made her cry on her wedding day Yeah, and so I'm holding it back and then my wife thought about it. She told us you guys don't look at him During the wedding ceremony because he's gonna be crying Yeah, and so my sister avoided eye contact with me that holds her really, because the whole time I was crying. And it was just fascinating to me because I've probably not cried that much ever in my life. But there were times when I had to hold back for her sake

and there were times when I let it out. And I like that you brought that up because I do think that we've gone from one extreme to the other extreme of men never cried to, men should cry to men should cry all the time to figure out that healthy balance. Yeah, I think it's with anything like you get injured, you break a bone, it heals, you get stronger. So it's not to say that you shouldn't acknowledge the pain or acknowledge crying,

but trying to stay strong through those moments I think is just as important of realizing you're hurt and those are touchy topics. But how are you gonna, every time someone brings it up, you're just gonna cry, or are you gonna be able to talk about and educate other people that are going through the same thing. You know, I think you gotta be a beacon. And just, yeah, hold it together a little bit.

What's your days looking like right now? Like now that you're in your element, you're having a good time, things are opening up, you're doing new creative endeavors. What, what does your day look like right now and what you're loving about it? Yeah, well, my team comes with me for these opportunities and obviously like, you know, I kinda,

it's all insane, the fact that I have these options now and so obviously training is a big part of my day still. You know, obviously re-having through, you know, surgeries and just maintaining that strength while you're not playing is a big thing. You can get pretty relaxed with it and you can lose years of work in a couple of months. So I'm trying to stay on top of that. And then with doing all these things, I've got a new passion because I love communicating

with people. I love learning about people and I love helping. I just love entertaining, giving the audience something different than what they've seen for me the last 10 years. So just all these types of things, training, seeing the world with my girlfriend is, I know that we're extremely blessed. 95% of relationships, you don't get to travel,

you don't get to do the world like we get to do it. So I know that I'm extremely blessed in that department and a little 1% of NBA games, I love basketball. So yeah. You've been watching? Yeah, yeah, I'm watching. We might be going tonight to the game too. So yeah. You've been watching? Yeah, yeah. I'm watching. We might be going tonight to the game too.

Oh, nice. Who's your team? I'm a Boston Celtic fan. Okay. So being in LA is tough. Yeah. What's been the best country you've visited or favorite place that you visited? Maybe with your girlfriend, even on your own that that's kind of like left and mark.

Well, Australia is the best place in the world. I'm just going to say that. It is. Every person that goes there. I love going to us. I had the best place in the world. I was gonna say that it is. Every person that goes... I love going to us. I had the best time. My whole tour, I had so much fun in Australia. It was amazing. Australia is the best place in the world. I love the states personally just because of the sport. You guys are the sport here, like nothing else. But my mom is half Malaysian. I'm half Malaysian, my mom is Malaysian so every time I go to Malaysia or any Asian country,

I love the food. Like, my mom cooks. I'm not just saying this, my mom is honestly going to be one of the best cooks in the world. And I've grown up with such a good food background. So I could live in Asia, hands down. But the States, probably someone there.

I mean, I'm half Greek, Europe's nice, but Australia is the best place in the world. It's the best place in the world. We're in Australia. If someone had to visit, where should they go? I mean, I come from Canberra and everyone from Australia thinks Canberra is not a very good place,

but I love the simplicity of Canberra. Like, it's a very... I love coffee, like, I love the cafe scene. I love just chilling, but Sydney Melbourne, or even Gold Coast, some of that beautiful places, just such a good lifestyle there, so safe. And you can just do whatever you need to do in Sydney. I mean, Australia in general, so.

Yeah, yeah. I need to go back. I went for work. Yeah. And I always feel like when you go for work, it's different. Definitely, of course. And so I was like, I was telling my wife, I was like, we have to go back and just experience it. I have to come to you for a hundred percent foundation. Yeah, we've got a couple good spots.

A couple good spots. What would you say now if there's anything keeps you up at night still? Yeah, so I lost my grandma when I was about 19 after I first broke onto the scene and she was like my best friend through my childhood. Like my mum was always working, I didn't get to see much of my mum. Like my grandma picked me up from school, dropped me into trainings, we slept in the same room together, we had bunk beds, like we were like best friends. And she kind of passed away when things started to get a bit crazy for me in my career,

like media and, you know, probably didn't spend as enough time with her that I would have liked. And I think back to when, you know, she was in a nursing home towards the end of her life. And I feel like that kind of really bothers me. I feel like tennis took time away, not tennis itself, like you said, the sport, just everything that came with it took special time away that I should have had with her. And I was so young and naive to say to these people, no, I don't want to do it.

It was like the time where money was coming in for my family. I was changing my entire family's life. So I felt like that, that sits with me and that's painful because she was my best friend and she I guess she maybe understood it Maybe she didn't so I feel like if I could spend some more time with her instead of doing media or an interview or business or something like that I guess I wish I could have more time with her, but hopefully she's up there watching and and proud of everything that I'm doing now and Yeah, I guess that I think about that, you know all the time

That's that's that's a tough one when you can't do anything about it now. I can't change it. Yeah, you can't change it. Those are the ones that are like, you know, it's tough thinking you could have done one. And you're so young too, and like your career's taken off. Like, it's so forgivable in that sense. Like, you know, it's, how would you know at 19, what to prioritize and what to focus on

and you live in the dream in one sense. And like you said, you're changing your family's life, it's hard to deal with that. And I guess, would you say, it doesn't sound like that's a regret though. It sounds like it's something that's kind of, yeah, I think I used to think it was was... I used to really be upset about it. And I was regretful of doing everything that came with it.

I was like, I hated tennis, I hated everything that came around it. Because I was like, I just kind of... I didn't leave her, but I kind of just didn't spend as much time as I used to spend with her. So now I've come to understand it. Like, I was young, I didn't... I wasn't educated on these things that I had to be doing. So I guess I've been a bit nicer to myself

on that topic, but I still think about it. Like I unfairly think about it at night time. Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's amazing how the mind works, right? Like you can literally avoid something the whole day and somehow at night, it comes back. And it just like almost like on clockwork like on time. It's so fascinating. Have you found a way of switching those thoughts off? I guess I just realized now that that's just more love and more time that I wanted with her.

So I'll try and look at it as a positive. Why am I always thinking about this moment? Why is it always coming up? It's just because she meant a lot to me and that's you know, I have so much more stuff that I wish I could just sit down with her now and speak about everything that's been going on, and, you know, she would love it. She was the ultimate jokes to her now family. She had, she was just a free spirit, and I feel like that's where I get some of my personally

from on the court. So if I could just sit down with her now and just chat about things would be amazing. And I guess that's what I just try and turn into a positive. I just got so much stuff that I want to talk to her about. And I feel like, yeah, if she was here during that dark time, I think I would have got through it a lot easier.

But yeah, I guess I just turn into a positive. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh, man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is Puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dresser. Exactly. Ah, that's good.

That's good. We are living in the golden age of puzzles. And now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears for 10 minutes or less. Every day on the puzzler, short and sweet. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird.

This is fun. Let's try this one. Listen to the puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming. Yes, yes, the Street stoic pie the past is back. One of the quotes that came to mind here is from great. The lyrics that came up for me was from Beyoncé.

I pulled a quote from just one of my favorite artists in general Kid Cuddy. We are combining hip-hop lyrics and quotes from some of the greatest, to ever grace a microphone. In it, he says, because it's just waves. Gotta just float, float, and have faith. It's just waves. It's the line that we've all heard before for Lauren Hill. And she says, don't be a hard rock when you really are a gem. Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time. Seneca, right? And he says, your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought.

For the human spirit is colored by such impression. A stone quote from Epiquitous, where he says, don't seek for everything to happen as you wish it would, but rather wish that everything happens as it actually will. Then your life will flow well. And let's say I know we all could use a daily shot of inspiration. So this is the podcast for you. Listen to season two of the Street Stoke podcast as part of the Mike Bukboda podcast network on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or the ever you get your podcasts. Yeah, there's also you've said that, you know, after the

Wimu Dun game with Joe, Joe Jokimic, you felt like you could have won it. And there was a feeling like you could have done that, that could have been it. How much does that play on your mind? A lot that I was two sets away from winning Wimwarden. And if I played anyone else on planet that day, I felt like I would have won. So yeah, I mean, now I'm at peace with it, but for the three to four months after, that was like in every day. It was like not just a nighttime thing, it was like, what could

I've done differently? Every time I was in the gym, every time I was on court, like, why didn't I, you know, that was my opportunity, why didn't I just grab it? But now I understand like the more he achieves now, the more I'm nice, I'm like, okay, no, everyone's trying to still figure this out. But yeah, I mean, look, more than 99% of the world hasn't figured out how to beat him on a consistent basis. So I can't be too angry about it. Yeah, I like that perspective. That's a good mindset to have.

And but it's so interesting, right? Like, I can totally empathize with that idea of how you can be so harsh and heavy on yourself, like three to four months, because you can over analyze how have you mastered the art of limiting over analysis, or what have you learned about stopping over analysis to the point that it becomes a weakness? Well, tennis is a sport where you have to be a good loser because every week you're losing,

unless you're one of these top guys who is winning consecutive tournaments, you're experiencing a loss every week and you just have to pick yourself up and go again in a different country, different surface, different times I'm saying. So you just have to just be really good at understanding what you've done wrong, moving on and just going again. Because one week, one to two weeks in tennis can change your life. You can have 30 bad weeks in a row. The minute you have one really good result,

things change for you. So you have to, that's what I love about tennis. You have to learn to bounce back quickly. And I think that's a life lesson. Like you're going to experience ups and downs. Things are going to be horrific for a couple of months. They might be great. So it's like riding the wave and being kind of equal

through everything and just backing up and going again. Consistency is you learn that from tennis so early on, which is cool, I liked that. Yeah. Well, other sports you have in off season, so you have like a period of time to say, well, what on earth are you better at?

I can get stronger. With tennis, there's no off-settings like every week, there's a new tournament. So you can't be too down when you lose, and then when you win, it's like, but you're playing tomorrow, so you gotta just start again. Yeah.

What's something in life that you've had to learn the hard way? Um, hmm. That's hard. Yeah, take it hard. I don't know. Let me ask you that question. Well, it's something I've had to learn the hard way. Here's a hard question. So let me take a second, too. Let me take a second, too. That no one's coming to save me.

That no one, no one magic person is gonna discover my abilities, my qualities and help me become the best version of myself that there's not gonna be one person who just activates it all. Activates it all and makes it easier and shows me the path and clears all the obstacles and says, Jay, just walk this way. Like when you put something in an iPhone map

and it tells you which direction to go. Exactly. Someone who's gonna come and show you the map of life. And no matter how much someone cares or doesn't care, it's that's not there. And I think I think I just had this inbuilt belief since I was young that someone else was going to discover me and help me. And it was only when I realized that that person was me, that life became easier, but it took me a long time to learn that. And you know, they talk about it in dating, especially for the way

women were raised, but it's called the Disney Princess Syndrome. This idea of like how Disney made young women believe that one day your night in shining armor will come and save you. And there'll be this perfect guy who has everything figured out and you'll kiss a frog and he'll become a prince and all these ideas. And I think we all carry that in some way. So I think that's been really hard for me.

And I think the other one was what we were talking about earlier. Like I think something I've had to learn the hard way I think something I've had to learn the hard way is I deeply believed that when I achieve a certain level of success that everyone will like me, or that when I make it to this level that everyone will recognize my struggle and my pain, and everyone will acknowledge how hard I've worked. Yeah, I guess that's probably been my biggest one. Like I wish people, like when I meet new people, that they're just, like how I am with people

that have achieved things, I'm so grateful, I'm so like proud of them in a way. And I don't even know these people, but I'm like, well, you must have worked really hard. Like in that for me is like, I wish people would give me more, I just made me a little bit more credit from time to time, you know, just of some of the things that it's been hard. It hasn't been like an easy journey at all for me

and for I'm sure anyone in a position of achieving things. It's been so hard. Yeah, and that can be anything, right? Like I think we're talking about everyone. Everyone, just anyone. If you're someone who's just figuring out how to pay the bills for your family or you're taking care of your kids.

You deserve a little part on the back. You deserve to sit down and maybe make it feel good a little bit about things, you know? Yeah. And it's almost weird, because we think of that as cheesy. Yeah. Now, we think of that as like,

I'll get over it, you know, just, but I feel like we all need, me and my friend talk about my best man at my wedding, like my best mate, we talk about this a lot about how we all need a sense of acknowledgement and recognition for what we're doing. And a lot of the time that scene is like soft or it's seen as like, oh, you shouldn't need that,

like get over it. I think it's motivating. Like I think it makes you want to achieve more when people recognize, okay, you're doing really well, you're on the right track, keep going. It's not like, it's not arrogant, I think, to just sit down and recognize that I've come a long way. I'm on the right track and what I'm doing

is very special. I think that could be motivating in a way rather than seeing as like soft or why do you need credit for that? It's like you're not doing things that every single person is doing. Like that you're doing obviously something about you is special. Your you know your details are you're ticking everything off the box like that's you shouldn't need acknowledgement for that What's a is there is there a moment that You wish you'd act differently in a press conference or in a game a

Moment where you look back and think you know what actually I'm better than that. And I'm such a, I'm a nice guy. That's not me. That was so far from who I am, that I actually don't feel good about. Yeah, I've had so many moments like that. I mean, I could go on YouTube now. And I guess the thing about tennis is, when you finish a match, you only have to do media

like so soon to when finishing. So you haven't had time to digest any sort of emotion. So you go in there, and the thing about it now with me, I walk into a room with about 50 people already to attack me. They're not actually going to ask me about, how did the match play out? They're going to just nitpick and come at me in an aggressive way. And I haven't had time to digest.

I haven't even eaten after four hours sometimes. And then when I did that time on Peers Morgan, he's like, this guy's so rude, he's such a disrespectful. I played for four and a half hours, I needed to eat some food because for my nutrition and my preparation, so it's like I walk in there and I have had no time to digest,

I haven't, and then these people are just going at me and then I retaliate and for me, oh, that's fine, you should be able to retaliate, but then I look back at all the people that are watching this, kids and they see, I could be disrespectful to someone that I don fine. You should be able to tell you but then I look back at all the people that are watching this Kids and they see I could be disrespectful to someone that I don't even want to be that but in that moment I Just haven't had any time to just reflect on what's just happened and I feel like yeah

I do I do regret sometimes on how I've acted on the tennis court or in a press conference Because it's it's not that version of Nick Kirios that I want people to, like millions of people to watch and say, oh, that's how he is, what a prick. You know what I mean, but that's not me. And Australians in general, we have a bit of that like where if you come at us, we'll retaliate in a way of, you know, we'll make you feel it too. And I guess that my upbringing where, you know,

the bullying and stuff, I've always had that chipmash order where I'm in a position to give it, I'll give it a little bit, you know? So I don't feel proud of making other people feel bad. And I think that's just more of a retaliation of, I know how much it hurts, so now I'm gonna give it back to you a little bit. And that's not a good thing to do, especially after,

you know, in a press conference where millions of people are gonna see it. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely have some regrets with that, yeah. Especially when it's not you. It's not me, yeah. I think that's the hardest part right like when something's you There's a certain understanding that you have with it, but when you feel like that's not me

Yeah Like I can empathize with that like if in any conversation or anything that I've done More offline where I'm not acted like myself. It's almost the hardest thing in the world because I'm like yeah God now I've shown someone aside of me, that's not me. Exactly, and then they run with it. They're like, look at how he is. Yeah.

And I'm like, that was like a 10 minute press conference, you know, it's not even at all of what I actually, what's kind of a person I am at all. So yeah, that's been hard. And it's interesting, by the way, it is interesting to understand the context of you're playing for four and a half hours, you haven't eaten. Like And it's interesting, by the way, it is interesting to understand the context of you're playing for four and a half hours, you haven't eaten.

Like it's good to know, well, you know, like the human side of like, if you're watching a press conference, you're not thinking it through that deeply. No, you're not. You just like, oh, this guy just come off the court, like whatever it is, you know, it's what we do. And it's interesting, because I'm like, yeah,

if I was hungry for four and a half hours, and I'm just played and I get asked a question that annoys me, I can was hungry for four and a half hours, and I'm just played, and I get asked a question that annoys me, I can imagine retaliating too, being defensive. Like, exactly, if the player had, you know, if you came back into the tennis court and you stay and had a whole night to reflect on the match, moments where you were great, moments where you weren't,

you could just speak calmer about the situation. Just like when couples have a fight, sometimes having, figuring out then and there is not the best thing. You know, you need some time away, you need to reflect, you need to have a fight, sometimes having figuring out then and there is not the best thing. You need some time away, you need to reflect, you need to have a conversation and come back and when you're both calmer, like rather than when the emotions are high

you just turns into an absolute explosion. So yeah, I mean, that's the same thing. And you're not walking into a room where they're empathetic that I lost. They're like, oh, why'd you lose for? Why Jack like this is like, okay, you attacking me. Now I'm gonna go back at you. And then, yeah, so.

Yeah, and it's the trap. It's the game they wanna play. That's the articles and the headlines they want. It's the game they wanna play. Yeah, who is the basketball player? Who had a really good response? Was it Yannis? Oh, yeah, and he's like, do you, you know,

if you don't get a promotion, do you say that it's a bad year? Yeah, exactly. Everything's building to, you know, losing is not always seen as a failure. Why is that so? Yeah, no, it was what is the joy tell me tell me how it feels yeah to break a rack. How does that feel? It does feel good. It does feel good. It does feel good. Sometimes it feels good. Yeah, when does it when does it feel good? And when does it not feel good? I guess it doesn't feel good when I know it's detrimental to what's going on.

If, look, when I know when I get to that level of anger, I know that it's not helping me. But sometimes, if I've lost the match and the match is over and I go to my bag and I see it there and I know that I've got all this anger built up and I let loose, it does feel good. The timing of doing those things can help your performance or because sometimes I've seen in my in my experience, but other athletes like Jackević and Serena Williams all these legends of broken Rackets But the response after that's the key component and sometimes you need to let off the steam Because you're expecting more from yourself and I feel like the response if you're gonna come back with energy and

You know say alright. I did that now it's time to reset that it can actually help you in a way Walk us through the balance of when anger is helpful versus when it becomes destructive. That's the way you found it. Because I've been angry where I've broken rackets and then I become smart, I swear, the umpire. And then I'm actually not concentrating on what I need to do to win the match.

It's like I'm more pissed off of myself, I'm more pissed off of the umpire. Where I've had times where if I break a racket and I walk back to my bag and I'm like, here we go, you've done that now, or pissed off of myself or more pissed off of the umpire. Where I've had times where if I break a racket and I walk back to my bag and I'm like, all right, here we go, you've done that now. It's time to reset. We're not playing well,

but now how are we gonna change that? So I feel like the discipline of doing, and these great players have shown it, and they start playing better and they end up winning the match. So it's hard because you don't wanna make it seem like a violent act, because then kids are gonna be like, it's okay to throw rackets as it's okay

to, but that's why I think the response after that's more important. It's like, hey, he did that, but then he started playing unbelievable. So something must have clicked in. He said after he did that. So I guess it can be positive, but you don't. I'm not going to sit here and say, yeah, smash all the rackets in the world. No, no, not at all. Yeah, no, no, that's a, that. I can appreciate that. I can definitely see how getting that kind of competitive spirit out in a physical act can be helpful. I can recognize that. And unless it hurts someone else, which isn't exactly. And so it's interesting how, like you're saying,

like the greats do it often, but the response is, like how did that help you process things versus how did it lead you down to alcohol? It's like a complete reset, almost. So yeah, and I've seen it all the time, like I've seen Jacović Alka asena do these things, and it's like, okay, they realize they're not playing up to their standard,

and they go back and you see them breathing, and then they're like, they've done that. It's like they've reached a limit of playing really bad, and now it's time to switch that. So it's good. I mean, it can be used as a reset. Yeah, how much is meditation and breathing or mindfulness been a part of your world,

or is that something you're discovering or you've been practicing for a while? Oh, I'm just, I'm a complete working progress. Like people think that I've got my stuff figured out and I have a nice routine. Like people don't realize that having a routine is harder than doing something different and having stimulation every day.

That's easy. Like having waking up and doing something different is so easy every day, but can you get up week in, week out, monthly, yearly doing the same routine, having the discipline like that's having a routine for me is probably the hardest thing ever, and that's been my weakness in my career is consistency. Okay, play great that week, but Kenny Chopin and I haven't proven, I guess that's what I haven't proven, is I've been, because this is enough to make it this far, but am I consistent enough to be a champion?

Probably not, and I know that. So I think I'm just a working progress whether it's meditation, whether it's breathing. Like I started Pilates like two months ago. I never thought that I'd ever stop Pilates. Like my girlfriend went to Pilates, I'm like, I was like laughing, I started doing it, I'm like, oh my God, this is hard.

This is hard, I'm still trying to figure out, like breathing for me is a big one when I'm on court. I really am mindful of my breathing, but I don't even think I'm at that point of discipline or consistency yet to meditate. I can't even, I hate being alone with my thoughts still. I still have extremely dark thoughts. So I think I just try with easy, you know, consistent habits, you know, go for a walk to get a cough in the morning, my girlfriend, or, you know, just these lighter things, having a routine for me is incredibly hard still.

And people with routine, they're boring, you know, they're just, they're really disciplined and consistent with their work. And that's, that's really healthy. Routines and disciplines are, I mean, yeah, they're so hard to build. So hard to build, easy to break. Yep. So easy to fall off, so hard to build. So hard. So hard to build, easy to break. Yep. So easy to fall off, so hard to get back on. Yeah.

And so powerful when you get them right. Yeah. And yeah, anyone who can keep a discipline together every day is, it's a serious achievement. It is. What's the most difficult emotional thought that you deal with regularly still, or an emotional thought you struggled to deal with still?

That I'm not enough. I think that was the biggest one I think I struggled with was I'm letting people down and I'm not enough. And that's from millions and millions of opinions that have just built up over time. And I can see when I lose a tennis match or when I don't achieve things, I can see, you know, when I lose a tennis match or when I don't achieve things, I can see sometimes my even my family get disappointed.

And that's just, it just ate me up for so long. Like, going on social media saying, because I was supposed to be the next, after the big three, it was like, okay, Curiel's gonna take over the mantle. He's gonna be the one for 15 years, you know, being professional, winning Grand Slam's. And I think I look back on my career and I didn't even get close,

not even a quarter of what people thought that I should have achieved with the talent that I have. And I still deal with it. It's like, I'm never going to achieve what all these people thought I was going to achieve. But I've had tough conversations with myself in the mirror saying, like, am I okay with not maybe winning a Grand Slam, am I okay with not maybe winning a grand slam? Am I okay with not achieving? You know, I am okay with that, but it's still hard

because it's like, I know that my family would love that. Like, maybe they would prefer me being that type of champion or this person, and I really did struggle with that early on. Like, it's hard. Everyone wants you to be something that you're not. But the one thing that they kind of understand more is that I'm happier being this way. I'm happier just being myself and having some fun and just doing it my way. And that's, I'm so thankful that the most important people are, they can just understand. I'm not saying that that's what they want,

but at least they can understand it now. But yeah, that's been that was with the hardest thing, I think, for me. That makes sense.'s paying that was with the hardest thing, I think for me. That makes sense. Nick, you've been incredible, man. This is where I really appreciate about you is the genuine, authentic, raw, real answers. Like I can tell what I'm seeing with you. I'm listening to someone who's not.

It's interesting in a press conference, it seems like you don't filter the combativeness. And today I'm like, you're not filtering to make yourself look a different way or a period different way. You're just being who you are. And I really appreciate that because I think we all need to make sense of it. And I think a lot of us who are struggling

with that feeling of not being enough or not living up to the expectations of our family or not having achieved the goals that everyone else thought we'd set out to, I think that's more of us in life than the people who go on to achieve everything. And the interesting thing is even the people that go on to achieve everything

that everyone wanted them to, they're not happy either either because they often find that they're winning one at things that they didn't care about. They lost themselves. They lost themselves. And so I know that this is going to resonate with a lot of people, but as you know, we end every on purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. And so Nick curious, these are your final five.

The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? It's never as good as it seems and it's never as bad as it seems. Mm. Who said that? Where did you learn that? So, it was one of my tennis coaches

and I feel like, that was very tennis specific because when I was on court, I had the talent to like, amaze millions of people, but I always went on court and tried to do that where he was like, you don't have to do that. These people paid to come what you played just because of how you just are.

So I always was like, okay, maybe I don't have to try as hard. And then when I was playing bad, he, I used to think I was playing horrific, but then he was like, your bad for most people is still amazing. So it's not that bad. And then I started carrying that to everyday life, like when I was having some really bad

moments. And everyone thinks when they're going through a struggle, they're like, this is the worst part of my life. And I'm like, this is not the worst part of your life. It's just going through a bad phase. So that's why I'm never too high anymore with some amazing achievements. Like when I was a whimper and to most people was an amazing achievement and it is,

but I wasn't like, it's like I carry my trophy everywhere with me and I'm like, I may find it like, I just, you know, it's an amazing achievement and it's in the past now. So I think just being able to ride the highs and the lows the same, I think when you're able to do that, it's, you can just navigate through life a little easier. That's actually the quote above the Wimbledon

Court is when you can look at a victory in a loss the same way. That's when you've conquered life a little bit. So I think that's like the final thing you see above the court as it's opening up. I'm not sure that's the exact quote, but it's along those lines. So that quote there is very similar to that. It's never as bad as it seems, never as good as it seems. Nice. I love that. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever had or received? It's not that simple. I don't like, I think about when I've had my success, you know, I've eaten healthy, I've been active, and I've just worked hard. it really is simple. For everyone, I think if you just break it down into nice simple categories,

you're going to get the best out of yourself. And you're going to have success whatever that is. Success is different for everyone. But it's not that simple. The amount of times I heard that in school, from tennis coaches, from everything, it really, if they tell me it's simple, like do these things and you'll probably get the best out of yourself. So yeah, it's not that simple, though. I hate it hearing it. Because it

really was. To get in my position, it is quite simple. It's hard, but the steps to getting it, it's actually very simple. Yeah, it's not easy, but it's simple. Yeah, I agree. I would agree. Question number three, what's something that you've been trying to unlearn? Well, that's a hard one because I've had to unlearn nearly everything that I thought, like, because I meet so many people. I'm not really following your rules of keeping it short. That's cool, man. It's good. They're good answers.

But I've met so many people and I thought that I'd meet a lot of cool people and good genuine people on the way, but I've been really disappointed. I feel like I feel being in our position, it's hard every time you meet someone, you don't know if anyone genuinely wants to be your friend or hang out with you or go to dinner with you because we're good people. Do you want to just be around us?

And that's just a common struggle. I deal with every day. I really do struggle with that because I'm a genuine person. I only want to hang out with you if I think you're cool and you're, you've got a good heart. So I think I, I thought that a lot of people, I'm trying to unlearn that everyone has good intentions. I felt like everyone should have that and everyone doesn't. That's, yeah, and that's a hard one.

That's a really hard one. And I can resonate with that too. I think sometimes it's really interesting, right? Like when you're, I feel like sometimes if I get along with someone or I feel like a natural sense of chemistry with someone, I can come on quite strong, but I'm just being who I am. And I'm okay with that. Like I'll be like to someone, hey, we should hang out or whatever. I'm exactly like that.

And I like living that way because to me, that's how I've made some of my best friends. If I wasn't like that, you're like sheltered. How are you gonna experience like the good times? Totally. And I've opened myself up to them. Sometimes people are like,

oh, maybe he has something that he wants. And I'm like, no, not really. Yeah. That's just to why I am. That's how I was raised. I'm just fine. I just feel good. Yeah, exactly. And so I can relate to that.

All right, question number four, a rule everyone should break and a rule everyone should follow. I prefer the follow one, I think. God. Oh, I don't know. I'm going to give that to you. I'm going to go to you. I can't answer.

A rule everyone should break. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, I can't answer it. I've never asked it before. I just go inspired to ask it to you. A rule everyone answered break. Yeah, yeah. I actually, I can't answer it. I've never asked it before. I just go inspired to ask it to you. The rule everyone should break. I'm just trying to think of rules that the world sets that we think everyone should break.

And so let me think of a rule. The way I would think about it is what are rules that we were all told, like even unwritten rules that we all heard since we were young, that now I look at it and I go, nah, we should break that rule. And you expected me to answer the question. In you, you, you, you, no, no, no, no. I want to give a genuine answer because I know, but you're so the way you have answers to pretty much everything. But I like, I like to be thoughtful because it literally, I came up with

that question right now just for you. Like it was a moment thing, it wasn't a, the, I would say that like an unwritten rule or like a rule that I think everyone was told to follow was like, I feel like when you were growing up, you were told to fit in. Yes. And then when you get older, you're told to stand out.

Yeah. Right? So if you want to be successful when you're a kid, fit in. Where the uniform stand in line, do well in school. It's like everyone you want to be successful when you're a kid, fit in, where the uniform, standing lion, do well in school, it's like everyone's told to fit in. And then as you get older, if you want to win it, whatever career part, you got to be different, you got to be authentic. It's like, wait a minute. And so instead of fitting in or trying to stand out, the rule to break is to say, well, I'm not going to fit in or I'm not going to stand out. I am just going to learn to discover myself.

And I think it's not even about being you. I think that's the cheesy answer of like, just be yourself. I don't think it's about being yourself. I think it's about discovering yourself and getting to know yourself. And so the rule we need to break is stop trying to fit in or stand out. Just get to know yourself. I think that's figure it out. Yeah, just figure it out is what comes to mind anyway.

I like it. Yeah, we'll go with that. You just keep flipping it back on. I like it. It's smart. It's a good topic. It is. It's good PR training.

This is a masterclass in PR training. It is. From my dick. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law, we ask this to every guest of all time. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Before you criticize someone, you have to do what they do for one day. So like if someone criticizes my tennis game, they need to get on the court and try and play.

Or like if I was criticizing someone that I had to go, I think that should be a law. Before you, if you're willing to criticize, then you're gonna be that person for one day and deal with everything that they have that person deals with. That is a brilliant answer. I love that. We never had that on the show and I love that. It would be amazing if you actually became that person for a day,

you had to swap lives, anyone you judge, do a criticize, you had to swap lives with them for one day. That would be phenomenal. And it's not like a holiday. It's like a business day. It's not like a party like a Saturday night. I go and I know it's like the working day.

Yeah. Because then I would think I would think to us. Yeah. Like I've criticized basketball players. Anyone I'd be like, oh, you all right. And then it's like, all right. You want to do the day thing? I actually know.

Because I think a lot of people in my position would, like they would freak out. I think if I had to go out and play a match in front of the stadiums, then do the press conference, and then deal with the criticism. And that to feel the realness of it all, they wouldn't wanna criticize again.

Yeah, I like that law man. Yeah, that's a good law. It is a good law. It's a good law. Nick Kira, this has been such a joy and pleasure man. Appreciate it. You totally over delivered and for what it's worth from the moment we started messaging to meeting you today to having this conversation, you're a genuinely nice guy man.

I appreciate that. Thank you. And I've enjoyed every minute we've spent together and I look forward to many more. Thank you. Genuinely. It'll be fun. Yes, it's been fun.

Thank you, man. Of course. If you love this episode, you will love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose. Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve. Imparencing coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how the

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Here it is. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm here to help. Listen to Comeback Stories. I'm Darren Waller. You might know me at the Titan for the New York Giants or some of you might know me from my story of struggling with and beating addiction to become a pro-walt Titan. With me I have my friend and co-host Donnie Starkens who is a yoga instructor and a personal

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