On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Orlando Bloom: 3 Reasons Why You Need to Allow Yourself to Make Mistakes & Shift Your Perspective on Fear

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

Do you stop yourself from making mistakes?  Do you want to shift your perspective on fear?  Today, let’s welcome the one and only Orlando Bloom. Orlando gained widespread fame for his roles in some of the most popular films including The Lord of the Rings trilogy and Pirates of the Caribbean series. He will be seen starring in Peacock's limited adventure docuseries, To The Edge, which he also produced. Off-screen, Orlando is known for his humanitarian efforts, including his work as a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador. Orlando shares insights from his life as an actor, adventurer, and someone deeply involved in spirituality. He talks about how meditation and mindfulness help him stay balanced despite the hectic nature of being a celebrity, his views on masculinity, the importance of embracing both masculine and feminine qualities, and striving for balance and introspection in life. We also get to hear stories about facing and overcoming fears, embracing vulnerability, and the lessons he's learned from these challenges. This episode isn't just about getting to know a renowned actor but diving into the personal journey of a man who is constantly looking for deeper meaning and connections in life. In this interview, you’ll learn:How to overcome fearHow to maintain balance in a hectic lifeHow to incorporate mindfulness into everyday activitiesHow to explore and embrace different aspects of your personalityHow to use life's challenges as growth opportunities Tune in now for a discussion full of insights on overcoming fears, embracing spirituality, and pursuing personal growth.   With Love and Gratitude,Jay Shetty What We Discuss:02:28 Working in an Unscripted Space06:09 What’s Your Earliest Childhood Fear?08:35 Practicing Buddhism13:49 The Lotus Sutra20:16 The 8 Wins26:28 Trusting Your Life and Becoming Capable36:33 Being Present While on the Edge44:48 Any Moment Could Be Your Last45:43 The Deepest Mirror You’ll Ever Have48:58 What Did You Learn from Your Past Relationships?51:22 Introducing Buddhism Practice to My Kids55:33 Whatever You’re Saying, You Become01:02:22 Loving the Parenting Journey01:07:16 The Impacts of Your Decisions01:09:13 Opportunities Through Obstacles01:17:40 Buddhism Is My Anchor01:18:59 The Fear You’re Currently Overcoming01:26:04 Orlando Bloom on Final Five Episode Resources: Orlando Bloom | Instagram Orlando Bloom | Facebook See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Some of the deepest fears I have are related to a historical pattern of behavioral thinking, which I don't know that I was even conscious of. Please welcome Orlando Bloom. Orlando Bloom! I think that our deepest fears, they often lie in areas unknown to us. Because anything that I try to hold on to doesn't serve me. And that's really hard. that if you want to create a habit, make it easy to access. By hitting the subscribe button, you're creating a habit

of learning how to be happier, healthier and more healed. This would also mean the absolute world to me and help us make better, bigger, brighter content for you in the world. Subscribe right now. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier

and more healed. Today's conversation is long overdue. I've been excited for this guest to be in the studio for many, many years now, and I can't wait to have what he just called a heart-centric conversation, my favorite types of exchanges and interactions. Today's guest and on purpose is the one and only Orlando Bloom, well known for starring in some of the biggest movies of all time,

whether it's The Lord of the Rings or Pirates of the Caribbean and so many more. And Orlando will next be seen starring in Peacock's limited adventure docu-series, To The Edge, which Orlando also produced and premieres on April 18th. This is something I've already had a snapshot of, already a sneak peek. I can't wait for you to see it.

I think it's going to challenge you internally and externally. And I think it's going to help you get out of your comfort zone this year, so make sure you don't miss To The Edge. Welcome to On Purpose, Orlando Bloom. Orlando, thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me, Jay. It's really an honor to have you here because I feel like we don't know each other. We've never met or spoken.

Feels like it though. Yeah, it feels like it. And even today when we were just talking when you came in, I was like, why is this so easy? Mystical. What is it about, you know, you were saying you're new to the world of podcasting, but it seems to be something you're opening yourself up to. Where's that coming from? Well, first of all, I love what you do.

Thank you for having me. It's so beautiful to see the messaging you put out in the world. To the Edge is the first time I've worked in a unscripted space. And I'm very proud of it. And I thought I'd try, you know, like I haven't intentionally not done podcasts. I just haven't. And I, and I've been wanting, as you said, to work with you for ages. So I was like, to at least sit down and have a conversation with you.

And I, I tried to get to one of your, your, your, your speaking engagements, which I wasn't able to. But it's like, I just thought this is an opportunity to like have a heart-centric conversation. And I love the message that you're putting out. And actually, you know, Edge is a show that came up, it was the birth child, the brain child of a period of time that I think was really challenging in the world

for everyone, you know, through COVID, where I think fear was sort of around all of us. We were all like, wait, well, you know, what are we living through? This is so unique. And it was sort of palpable in my environment. And I'm not comfortable with fear. I'm like, I'm always like, I run into it. I like, I want to transform it. I want to like, I want to, you know, it's people say, what are you afraid of? Right. You know, I'm a bit of sharks. I'm like, I'm afraid of fear, you know, because it's like, I want to confront anything in my life that feels challenging on those levels. So actually, initially, I would love to have spoken to you on

my show. I had this idea where I would speak to people, and also people like in blue zones and spaces in the world where people have just got it figured, they've got it dialed, whether it's through diet, lifestyle choices, and all of the things that you speak about. It's like, I was like, I want to go and explore the people in the world that do that. And I've had this amazing opportunity with UNICEF for many years, 20 years now almost. And so I've sort of been in communities where I've seen how an impact, what a great impact positivity can have, right? Which I think is the message of UNICEF, also the funding that they support for communities. So I was like, I want to go and talk to people,

but we didn't really get, we got no hits. Nobody was really interested in me doing that. I think there's also a Blue Zone show that is apparently epic as well. So, but how about we just throw you out of a plane and see if you can swim to the bottom of the ocean and we'll throw you up a mountain. I was like, I can do that. You know, it also feeds into my sort of adrenaline, sort of fueled sort of aspects of my life. I think, you know, as a kid, you know, I think I just was so active and physical and sort of approached life with that fearlessness. And in some ways, you know,

that was a blessing, but I came definitely came out banged up and bruised. I think I had, I was diagnosed with dyslexia when I was like maybe nine, 10. So I had some extra schooling in that space. And that really helped me because I had, I had a kind of unusually high IQ, but I just was really challenged at focus and concentration. I think I was probably undiagnosed early on with like, probably ADHD, which I've subsequently kind of come to realize that was definitely something that I've been navigating and now I've kind of found my way through to the sort of magic

of what that can be for me. Do you remember your earliest fear as a kid? It's funny because I'm an actor, but I used to just be terrified of getting on stage. No way. I had real stage fright as a kid. I was actually, my mother enrolled me into a ballet class as a kid. So until like, I think from probably a toddler,

a tiny toddler until I was maybe four or five. And I think at around four, we did this performance in Canterbury at the Marlowe theater, which is the biggest theater in town, pretty big theater actually. And we did a little ballet show, which was just me as there was probably a whole lot going on and I'm forced. I don't entirely remember, but I do know that I was dressed in a monkey suit. I remember having a really hot itchy monkey suit on and having an itch on my bottom. And I was a little embarrassed, so I turned around to scratch my bottom so nobody would see me.

But the whole audience just ripped because kind of cute, right? So I think my first fear was like being on stage. So I kind of, you know, I did all the National Youth Theatre stuff in London. I did youth theatre. Everything I could do, you know, I did, I did all the National Youth Theatre stuff in London, I did youth theatre, everything I could do at school was my sort of star. And I was just constantly every time I did it, like I used to remember walking on stage, and I'd be like, my mom used to do this, you know, you can, you know, my mom had this one thing, she'd

shake her fist at me. Says a lot about my mom. But she'd shake her fist and say, you can do it, you know. And so I had this thing and I'd sort of go, and then I was quite, you know, I was confirmed in the Cathedral of Canterbury by the Archbishop of Canterbury because it was like where I'm from and stuff, which kind of a big deal.

So religious practice was always kind of a part of my life. So I'd always sort of say a prayer as well and think and then kind of go out and do it. And it'd like, and it was like never more focused than when I was on stage. And that was a great feeling because otherwise I think I was struggling in school to, to, to articulate my thoughts or follow or continue my thought thread. So yeah, I think fear for me was that which is ironic because of course now I'm, you know, then I went on to being an actor. But, but, uh, and also I have a, you know, I think at 16 I moved to London, which was quite young and I was on my own to do my A levels.

And it was when I was 16 that I met a Buddhist practice. So early. Yeah. So I was very young to meet a Buddhist practice and it was a philosophy and a, and a, and it is a religious practice, but it's way more of a sort of philosophy and almost like a guide to life, if you like, for me. What was it about it at 16 that resonated with you? I think that having left the sort of institutionalized schooling that you and I both recognized from

London and England, rather. Not London, I was in Canterbury, but I went to a private school. I had a pretty solid middle-class education. So it was like there was sort of a chapel every morning, a simpson. And so I had that sort of in me, and I think I really enjoyed that. But when I moved to London, I didn't find a church or find a community. And it was when I was studying for my A-levels that I realized that I needed extra art for my sculpture exam, which I hadn't thought through. I'd given up art at quite a young age. I just didn't have a teacher. It was unfortunate. So I met through

my best friend. I met an artist, he introduced me and I did extra classes. I'd sort of go back to Kent. He was actually from Kent. So I go down on the weekends and I'd, he'd set me up in a room and he'd say with an easel and he'd say, here, just do this. And I'd hear him in the other room and he'd be going Nam-myo-ren-gyo-go-nam-myo-ren-gyo-go. And I'd be like, and one day I just, I said, I walked down and said, what are you doing? He goes, I'm just, I'm just chanting that you're going to be really successful in your exams. You have a really successful life. I was like, cool. Well, will it help? He goes, yeah. I

was like, great. So I just got down on my knees. I was like, and so David, who is, who I've known since some like, yes, maybe 17, 16 or 17, but he, he was, he, he is, he, he shack a book of me, which is what we call in my practice where someone introduces you to the practice. So he is, and he was wonderful because he, he sort of at 16, I was living in London and I was a real terror when I was like a club kid, I was like having a really good time. Everything was like, you know, I mean, I was, I wasn't, I don't want to mischaracterize myself because in some ways I always knew what I wanted.

So I kind of had a sort of self discipline regulator almost, I didn't go too far, but I always pushed the boundaries of what was I could do. And I was having a really good time. And, and I was like, and I said, well, you know, he explained it in a very sort of simple way to me, but it was like, I was like, well, can I chant for these things that I kind of, you know, like, but it could have been anything. And he was like, yeah, sure. And sometimes it was like, well, I'm going to have a really good night and this, that and the other. And he was like, see what happens.

And I would, and sometimes I'd wake up with a really sore head and I'd be like, oh, okay. So words like integrity, wisdom, courage, compassion, things that were started to come filtered at a young age into my thinking through also the writings of Daisaku Okada, who's my mentor. And so it was like, it was this perfect moment for me because I think, I always wanted a roadmap. I think there's an art to living. And for me, this philosophy is, for me, it's a way for me to understand the art of living. And I think it's really like the law of cause and effect. And I think all religions kind of mix and match and meet. The central core of all practices, I think, is one of good will, I believe. But there's

almost like science, like cause and effect, what goes up must come down. It just sort of worked for me as an idea. But it took me four years. I shackle Buka, my sister, my best friend. And one day my best friend goes, well, I'm going to go and get Gohanzen. Gohanzen is this scroll that we chant to. And I was like, wait, you what? He said, I'm getting Gohanzen. I was like, uh, I, uh, and he'd been chanting for like maybe, I don't know, six, eight months. And I was like, uh, I was like, okay, I'll, I'll join you. I'll do it. I was like, I've been doing this for four years and I hadn't, or, you know, years and I hadn't. So yeah, I became a member of the SCI, which is the organization. And that was, yeah, when I was nine, a bit later, because I'd started chanting, but I just used to, just I chanted and it was like, it kept me in rhythm and, and it, and it was, and that's really,

for me, it kept me in a flow. It's like the rhythm of life. And it, in a way, way, when I was doing my, my sculpture exam, I remember I was painting like a whale bone and a lemon or a pineapple. Like it was a whale bone and like some kind of piece of fruit. And I was like, I'd look at it, I'd be painting and it was a 15 hour still life oil painting exam, had a still life drawing exam, as well as the sculpture. I'd go to the toilet, like, come back and we look and finish the sculpture. I'd go to the toilet, I'd be like, come back and we'd go. And finish the painting. And I think, like, yeah, I got the highest grade and then they called and said, we'd like to keep this work as the highest grade for the country,

kind of thing. It's like, this is the bench. And I was like, I hadn't been doing art. So I really tested it and it was, you know, I think the I think the power, as you, you know, you know, when you set an intention and, and at such a young age, you know, for young people, for young people today, I think having something like something that you can trust. And I think, you know, I really admire, I think it's hard to have faith. I think it's hard to have faith. With the chanting and with the practice or the habit of that, what were some of the more philosophical lessons or principles that kind of became anchors or a compass in your life at that time? Were there certain teachings or lessons that stood out and you were like, oh, these are going to form the principles that I'm going to live by. Yeah. So many Daisaku Okada, fortunately, has written extensively and it's very accessible.

For those who don't know, please tell us who. So Daisaku Okada is my mentor. He brought this practice from Japan around the world. It was in the 60s, I think, is when he left Japan and traveled first to Hawaii. The founding members of this practice, many of whom are wonderful Japanese women who have been living around the world, He brought this practice to 193 countries, I think, now. His mentor, Jose Toda, and before that, Machiguki, Jose Toda's mentor, Machiguki, in the 60s in Japan, brought this practice forward. Daisaku Ikeda really made it accessible. He wrote extensively. His book about his life is written from another perspective. It's like it's him, but it's written as another person isn't that person?

Well, if it's not the same, but if it's, it's him, but it's not it's he's got a pseudo name for who it is. Yeah. Right. So he, but it's just, it's, I think there are so many ideas within the practice, but at its core, it's like I just find that through chanting, you say, Nam, I devote myself, Myoho Rengekyo, to the mystic law of cause and effect through the vibration of sound. And the sound is Nam Myoho Rengekyo. Myoho Rengekyo is the title of the Lotus Sutra. And as you may or may not know, but yes, you know, Shakyamuni, our Buddha, the Buddha, said our father, he wrote sutras, meaning teachings. And in the last eight years of his life, it was the Lotus Sutra before he passed that he sort of proclaimed as the teaching that would lead all living beings to enlightenment

in this lifetime. And so that's why we chant nam myo rengekyo, myo rengekyo being also the title of the Lotus Sutra. And then I recite two chapters from the expedient means of the Lifespan chapter from the Lotus Sutra, which is part of this practice, which is beautifully Japanese because it traveled from India through the Silk Paths and landed in Japan. It was Nishun Daisonin who was in 1270, around then. So you call that the 13th century. He propagated the teaching and he brought this teaching to the world at that time. So he enshrined in Sumi Ink, the Gohansam, which is, as I sort of said, that scroll that I chant to. He enshrined it with

Sumi Ink and he gave, because he recognized that sort of humans needed something, a mandala, something to look at. And really it's like polishing my mirror. So I, excuse my ADD brain, but it's like polishing my mirror. So I think about when I chant, I think about, in India it was like a bronze mirror and you polish it and then you see your reflection, right? So the more I chant, the more I see my reflection and I see the things or like a tea leaf, a glass of tea and I'm like staring away and it comes to the surface

and you're do chanting. I think as you get older and I have two beautiful children and you realize that like it's sort of, I think death is a big part of life and it's something that we, some people can be very uncomfortable with or challenged by and we're mystically here for such a short period of time relative to everything. here for such a short period of time relative to everything. And this practice is like constantly preparing you. And it's sort of the obstacles that you see in life because essentially the way that I've learned through my practice is that we're born, we grow old, we'll get sick and we'll die. And so will everyone around us. And hopefully nobody we love too soon, but the truth is you will lose. And I think that when you can see the obstacles in your life, and it may

be just waking up in the morning and getting a bill that you can't afford to pay for somebody, or when you take the obstacles in your life as the opportunities for your growth, when you reframe it as, oh wow, because the truth is, at least my truth through my practice is that we're never not gonna have opportunity, obstacles, right? And it's just how we see those obstacles and whether they become our benefit. So it's like painting a canvas, right?

Like when I broke my back or when I had, near-death experiences or experiences, I say about a few kind of interesting things in my life or a heartbreak or a heart reveal or something that happened in school or things, like those are the deep colors in your canvas. Otherwise everything's a sort of like plain, nice, and you want those rich textures, right?

Or at least I do. So I found that the practice has given me the sort of the pathway. And by the way, I intentionally sabotage myself, you know what I mean? I mean, literally I'm like, I'm not chanting. I haven't, I've jotted because I'm like, I get in my own way, you know, I'm far from like, I'm like literally, you know, and I'll get picked up on it by, by friends. I keep, I have a very, you know, I have David and my best friend, Mark and Chris and Chris who's in the show actually, give, give a, we all practice.

And so we kind of keep each other kind of accountable a little bit as well. But, but as you get older, you know, I think you probably experience it in your own way, but it becomes so much harder, you know, just to keep that kind of, that faith in everything because, but it's been for me that it's been, I think I was such a young age to get it. Yeah. You know, I know people who are born into it because, you know, their parents, you know, I know people who are born into it because their parents were... And that's like this fortune baby I call it. And that's such a blessing.

But The Eight Winds is something that Nishan Deshonen wrote this book. I didn't intend this to be a whole lot more than... I love it. It's beautiful. I'm just like riffing. It's beautiful. I love it. He wrote the Go show and it's like letters to his disciples. And it's crazy letters to his disciples. And it's crazy because they're like, they're written in 1270s something, they're in the

13th century, but they're so weirdly current. Like it's a bit, because it's like, there's a samurai, Shingo Kinyo, who I kind of like see myself as like, maybe I was, you know, like I have this like nice idea of who he was, but like, he had shared the practice with his master, and his master was, like, giving him all these lands, and then all these other samurai were jealous, and so they, like, they tore his character down, and he was banished. And then he managed to, kind of, come back because of his practice and communicate to his lord, and it kind of worked. But it's like, we know that story.

It happens in every office or in every city, or at least, you know, we've heard it time and time again. So they're so sort of current and relative, but... Absolutely. The Eight Winds is a really great, is one that I grew up with. A wise man is not swayed by the Eight Winds. A praise censure, honor disgrace, pleasure suffering, prosperity decline. And you know... Wow, that is really powerful.

You know, and that was one that just like, for me it was like, you know, just... I don't think I've... I think I've been swayed many, many a time. How does one not get swayed by praise and what was the second word? Praise and censure, so the opposite. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. So how does one not get swayed? Yeah, I think as a younger man and I don't like,

I feel I'm young at heart. So I kind of like, some years ago, you know, when I was like, when it was, when I was what I feel like really in the eye of the storm and just like my whole life was just like tabloid fodder in some ways, it felt like, um, constantly and anything I did, I think that was really challenging for me. It was like, and I don't think I handled, I don't think I didn't have any kind of major meltdowns, but like I was really upset about how my character

felt like it was being dragged. Actually, it's why I started an Instagram account, which I did some, I started very late in the game, but I only did it because actually my partner, Katie, had said, it's a really good way to gather the reins and create a narrative. And like now I know it's like, I don't know how many people even really use, there's so many different new things, media platforms, you know, but in a way it kind of was able, it sort of helped me to kind of create my own narrative, at least and to put messaging out that I felt was, you know, reflected my whole, my ideas

and views, you know, which obviously are mostly very centric, centered around my practice. And Daisaku Okada really, his writings. I love seeing you post about Daisaku Okada. Yeah, he says someone, he has, he has... Phenomenal. Well, beautiful things. And so, yeah, you know, so I think, I just, I just kind of, my practice definitely helped me with that. It was definitely anchoring. I think, I think I kind of, I got very good at hiding, which I would never encourage.

And if, you know, but in a way I kind of like, I got very good at putting a hat on and going, moving through the world without, and you know, if I could go back, I would probably say to that kid, like, you know what? Shine it bro. Just be, you're here to make mistakes. And if they're public or private, you know, they're the mistakes that you will, that's that deep purple in your canvas. Yeah. Just it's, it's not really how you go down. It's how you get up. Right. So, and you trust your heart, you know, trust that you're in the, in, in the flow. And that's, that's something that I don't think I had a lot of, you know, as a kid. So as you, as you, as you move on, you just go, well,

the noise just eventually subsides. And now I'm like, have a perspective on it just from years. And I'm like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's helped to know, you know, I'm like, I think it's, but that was, it was definitely through chanting that I, I think in my practice and friends and the community that I had around me at the time, and, and also being on the road and working so much, I think I just didn't, most of it was just like, uh, hardly didn't really look at it. Didn't really pay attention, but. Hearing you say that, I mean, what's beautiful is that it often feels like so

many of these lessons can only be lived and understood when they're lived, but it's helpful to know the lesson you're learning and how it fits in. It's almost like you had to go through that. You couldn't have asked yourself to deal with it better or do better at the time. No, no. But the fact that you had this lesson, philosophy, practice to guide you. Yeah, fall back on or to like kind of understand, give me perspective. Yeah.

For sure. That was a massive perspective. Yeah. For sure. That was a massive blessing. Yeah. When you're talking about fears and your first fear all the way through to this, obviously when you watch the show, there's this feeling of the external fear, right?

Like the idea of jumping out of a plane, the idea of rock climbing, all of these things are naturally inherently scary. Right, right. What's the internal fear when you're doing it? Like what is the dialogue that's going on? Because obviously you're quite a reflective, thoughtful individual. What's really the fear? Because it obviously isn't jumping out of the plane for you. Yeah. I think it comes back to trust and faith, right? And self-worth, right? There are protocols that you follow.

All of these adrenaline junkie athletes that you see maybe posting a 15-second clip on a social media page have spent their lives and potentially weeks, days, years, hours to perfect whatever it's you're seeing for a 15 second moment. And like Luke Aitken's jumped from the stratosphere without a parachute stratosphere without a parachute landing in a net. Camila J. Barr, who was my free diving coach, along with Will Trubich, who runs this vertical blue competition in the Bahamas where I was diving, supreme athletes who Camila has swum to, she's the Mexican world record holder of like 80 plus meters now. That's a, you know, I think I got to 37 meters in about the four days, which was like a hundred and a few hundred. And I was really struggling because of my mask. I had, I think I, I wish I'd not worn a mask. I wish I'd just like had goggles, like the other, I wish I'd not worn a mask. I wish I'd just had goggles. I wish I'd thought that through,

because I had some issues with equalizing. Mo Beck, who's this adaptive climber, who was born with one hand and started climbing as a child and just, you know, is the woman in her field doing what she does. And it's like a glass heart, you know, it's just overflowing. These people are just overflowing. But what it is, is that they are experts and it is a life choice almost, right? So in a way, like people have said to me, have you gone back to doing the free, the wing suiting or the, and I'm like, I really can't wait to do that. But it's like, it's not something you just dip in and out of, you know, it's a real lifestyle choice and it's a commitment and it's, it's something that gives you excellence. And I think the, so, so

trusting in that moment that everything you trusting myself, for me, it was about becoming capable, right? In a way, like, like learning to follow the protocols, learning to be present enough to take on board everything that's being told to me so that I can apply it to the moment that I'm in. So when I'm in the plane, I'm about to jump and I'm really, and I, you know, I think the, to be fair, I think the climbing, I got such potty mouth on the climate because I was so frustrated and terrified by the, by the gear, by the knobs, by whether I tied it right or whether the rope was going to hold me or whether I was going to, and mostly because actually I had Moe's life in my hands, right? Like so, but it was, I think, becoming capable and having that education and then

being accountable for myself. So in the moment where the fear is really kicking in, it's just trusting. Like kind of coming back to everything I've learned from my practice, it's trusting your life, having faith in your life. I think faith is so important, and I think misguided faith is sometimes so challenging for us as a species, because it's led to so much heartbreak and conflict. But actually, I really admire people of faith, because most people of faith, if it's not misguided, are really doing everything they can. And because it's my Buddhist practice,'re trying to be respectful of all faith. You know, I kind of feel like I know my path is the right one. I wish everyone would join me on this, but I, but I totally respect that

everybody has their path. And I think that's what it comes down to, right respect. So it's like a bit of it. The whole show was a bit of a human experiment for me. And I think the experiment and the lessons that I continually learn was a bit of a human experiment for me. And I think the experiment and the lessons that I continually learned was a bit of like self-respect, becoming capable, trusting my life, and trusting that this was part of an important and necessary part of my life. And I, after all, I'd chosen to do it, you know, and I could find myself at times in these super challenging, physically challenging moments, mentally, physically, and emotionally. They were all

totally different. So, like wing-suiting just was super unnatural to jump out of a plane. And then I think what Luke said to me was that I'm probably the first person to have jumped at 26 jumps. So 25 jumps, I got my, my, my, my A license for skydiving and my 26th jump was in a wingsuit. But he had me on this trajectory, but he knew from what he was watching and you know, we were working every day for a few, not even that long, but he knew that I was capable to do. So the free diving, I just didn't know if I was going to come back up. I was like, wait, what, what if I, because I had, and I think I was emotionally really

challenged by this idea, like respecting my life, you know, treasuring my life, because I think in some ways in my youth, treasuring my life, valuing my life, understanding the value of life, and being grateful for it in a very profound way. I think I have a stadium of angels or Buddhas or however, whoever you want to call them. But, and we're climbing, it was like, I'd find myself in these moments, as I said, I'd be like, I'm really having a hard time here. And I would with, I'd have, I had this, one of my assistants who became a producing partner was working with for so long, who knew me so well, but I would just be like freaking out. She could see I was freaking out, but I was freaking out.

But about something like, why am I wearing this T-shirt? What does this T-shirt mean? You know what I mean? It was so interesting how the mind, right, it's like, you become, you know what I mean? Instead of just getting in, you know, I became very, I was like trying to control, control the, control the environment, control the things because I felt so out of control. Like this t-shirt is not the right t-shirt or whatever it might be. You know, it was like for me, it didn't, it could have been anything, but it was like, because I needed to control whatever I had

possibly, you know, on me because I felt so kind of out of control in some ways. So it was a human, I felt like it was a human experiment, honestly. I was like, how much does it take for me to crack? You know, how much pressure before I, and what does that look like in some ways? So, but in a way, like, you know, that was the, you know, I kept coming back to Nami Oringekyo, you know, you, you, what is meant for you is not gonna go away, right? It's not, and this is, but it's also, it was my first time in an unscripted world, right?

Yeah. You know, I think because of the nature of my upbringing, dyslexia and education that was such a challenge, although I got it all, did it all, this is trusting. Yeah. My heart, all. This is trusting my heart, right? You're trusting your experience, right? I mean, that's what you've done so well. You've like, you're able to communicate from the heart,

listen, be present, and you know what I mean? And come in with the points that like, oh wow, you're actually absorbing and taking that on. And I think, and sharing and putting a message out, but it's sometimes hard for people, you know, especially I think, you know, when you're younger. The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is an NAACP and Webby award-winning podcast

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drove off into the sunset and was never heard from again, the First Nations activist whose kidnapping and murder ignited decades of discourse about indigenous women's disappearances. And the young daughter of a Russian czar whose legendary escape led to even more intrigue and speculation. These stories make us consider what it means to disappear and why a woman might even want to make herself scarce. Listen to a manica on the iHeartRad radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I mean, I think when I'm listening to you right now, these adaptogens are great. My mind is firing. I'm like, let's have more of this. Good. I'm glad we'll get you another.

Are you finished now? Do you want another one? When I'm listening to you right now, and I really appreciate you going there because of course the external is hard, but I love how you boiled it down to that idea of trying to control the little you think you can control in the midst of the fact that you can't control any of this. And it's interesting how that is such a great metaphor for life. Somehow, yeah. Because we're all trying to control everything we can control and what we can't control. Not recognizing that so much is outside of our control and that makes us in life feel helpless and it can often make us retreat and hide and disappear. But when you're climbing a mountain you can't disappear like you

can't retreat from that. It's almost like you have to sit in that discomfort and you have to sit in that discomfort and you have to sit with that emotion, which is actually what real life is demanding of us. But we find a way to kind of hide it, push it away, deal with it. And so it's the most physical, real way. I remember when, and this is what I think you're, hopefully the show will, you know, encourage people to do.

We all have something that's uncomfortable for us, whether it's internal or external. And I think everyone needs a friend who encourages them to do some extreme sports now and again. My wife needs less encouragement than I do. I, as life has gone on, I've become a bit more reserved. And I had a friend a couple of years ago who made me do skydiving,

who made me do crazy things with him. And I was really grateful for that because it made me realize how many blocks I had up here that I was unaware of. I thought I'd conquered so many blocks, but there was still so much lack of trust and so much lack of that feeling of, oh, actually I can sit in discomfort. I was almost trying to get away from discomfort because at one point in my life, I'd put myself through so much of it. I now just wanted to be in a comfortable space, which is fair.

But one thing you say in the docuseries, kind of in the beginning was this idea of you say being on the edge makes me feel most alive. But then at the same time, I see you as someone who really values the little things day to day and obviously with your Buddhist practice is mindful and present, how do you reconcile the two? Because, you know, if you're feeling all this adrenaline and this extreme sport and that makes you feel alive, but then how do you also feel alive in the tiny moments of maybe being with your kids or being with Blue as we just, your beautiful dog that we just with that.

Thank you. Yeah. I think, you know a beautiful dog that we just with that. Thank you. Yeah. I think, you know, it's such good questions. I think to let two things, and I want to come back to that question, but I think in a way, like what are the parts of the show is like, what did it take for me to be remarkably present? Look, I'm one of the most privileged people I consider myself. The experiences that I've had in the world, uh, in life, I feel just so grateful

all the time. I wake up feeling grateful and you know, I feel, you know, that partly that's my practice to give them any opportunity. But for some people it's like, look, just getting up from the couch and going to the kitchen. What does it take for them to do that? I know through COVID, which was the idea was that what does it take for that person just to go to the park, just step outside, take your shoes off, socks off, stand in the grass and look at the trees and just that may be all it takes, but it may be so challenging for one person, for that person.

So like, yes, for me, you know, when I was kind of raw docking it with my, my kind of ADD and just things happening, I was just like in it. I say that because I've, when I say raw docking, I mean, I was just like, I've subsequently found like a really amazing like peptide, which is fantastic. This helped me really kind of connect my thoughts at times, because sometimes it's really disjointed. But in a way, I love that about my thinking because it kind of is sporadic. But for some people, as I said, the hope for the show for me was like, it took me, okay, for me, who, you know, arguably throughout my life has really, you know, loved the thrill. Like if I'm going really fast, either on a motorcycle or in a car or whatever it may be, I feel like I'm more focused. Like I'm more likely

to have an accident at 30 miles an hour than I am at 60 miles an hour, you know, because I'm just, there's a, I switch into some other mode and it's kind of true for everything I've done in my life. Like if it's really up against me, then I'm gonna step up in a whole other way. Like for example, Lord of the Rings, where I was like my first movie really. And I'm with Ian McKellen and Ian Holman,

Christopher Lee and Vigo Mortensen and even Elijah who I'd seen in movies. And you know, like these amazing actors, all of whom had so much experience and it was an amazing gift. But it was also like, okay, step up, you know, and the blessing of that. So I think you kind of take that high of these insane things that you're doing, but it's all really like relevant to like, sometimes I can wake up in the morning and I just can't figure out even which way to go. You know, I'm like, I can feel like I'm like, wait, well, I'm so grateful, but wait, what am I,

my brain is like, it's like trying to bring it online. And it can, and it can be really overwhelming in terms of, you know. So it's like back to chance, back to breath, back to presence, back to stillness, back to like, I had this, I think I had this kind of really remarkable plant journey, medicine journey. And, you know, I set an intention around the feminine, because we touched on my mother briefly and I was like, you know, my mother gave me this, which is wonderful and loved me wholeheartedly and was in boarding school at the age of four. So it was like she didn't really have a full, you know, sense of what nurture and things was, but she was so loved and remains so loving and a great opportunity for me to continue to grow and evolve. But I set an intention before I was like, because I'd wanted to ask Katie to marry me. And I was

like, I just need to kind of check in. And I'd never done this particular medicine. And I was like, I want to just, so I flew somewhere to meet this. And I'd set this intention around the feminine, right? And basically the three points that came out, I was like, am I clean? Am I good here? Can I do move forward with this? Because it's important to me to know that I'm clear, right? And so it was with Aya, right? So you get this feeling of, and somebody had explained to me that you have this amazing feminine energy coming at you. And I think you're supposed to do three cups and I took five. Well, I wanted to have this, I was just waiting, I

was there and I didn't, I was just on a couch with this amazing room of musicians and this wonderful guide. And he just looked at me at six in the morning and he had been journeying with me and he was like, you want more? And I was like, one more. And then I had this sensation of lightness and this, I think basically is like our minds, right? You're like, you're exploring aspects of your mind that the neuro pathways that you just haven't like looked at, right? You understand that it's the map of your mind, right? That's kind of, and you've disconnected your ego enough to be humble enough to take on. And I, and this message was, well, first of all, just be grateful. Look at your life, right? Second of all, you don't have an issue with women. Look at your life, wonderful women in your life. And even if

there are aspects of women in your life that you have, it's all been part of your evolution. Um, but maybe the feminine in you, it was like, she was, you know, there was, there was this, it was like, so maybe you could nurture a bit more of the feminine in you and I was like, okay, but it was like, nurture, I get the creative artistic side, the just like pondering and. Poetical and things that I hadn't. And then, but the last one that I remember that was so, it was like, whenever you're with somebody, it may be the last time you see them again. You just don't know.

So make it great. What have you got to lose? You may never see this person again. We don't know. Life is like, you don't know. So just make it great. Because I had a young age, I'd had a real challenge. I'd had people come at me consistently, right?

And I'd be like, and I'd be in whatever mental state or moment that I was in. And sometimes I was like, you know, I mean, you know, and all they want is this moment. And it's so easy for me to just go, hey, yeah, photo, sure, yeah, hit that, no problem. And then carry on. Sometimes it was just like, you know, I could, it felt like almost acid because I was just, it didn't, what it represented at a different time in my life was, was a restriction, right. And I wanted to feel free.

But I think that moment of that thing for me was like, you may never see this person again, you don't know life is not built like that. So just make it great. It's not hard, right? Or at least leave it with that, you know? So I think that was the... Did I answer the question? Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean, so much... You gave me so much more to unpack there. I love it. I mean, on that point, I do think if we lived in a world where you genuinely believed that any moment with anyone could be your last. Yeah. The way you'd speak to them, the way you'd look at them, the way you'd listen to them would just transform. And I'm sure you have friends, I have friends who've lost parents, partners, people, and they all regret their last conversation with them because it was conflict or it

was an argument or it was a debate that they didn't need to have. They've been in conflict, who knows, yeah. Yeah. And they, and they didn't know that that was going to be the last time. And I've spoken to friends who've held that for so much longer because it becomes such a hard release to know that you could have, should have, would have said something differently. Might have done it differently. Might have done it differently. But going back to what was revealed to you and even that, I mean, I look at relationships as such an area where so many of our fears are brought to the surface.

I found this with my own wife. Like we've been together for 11 years and married for eight. What's the secret? And it's this, it's, it's being comfortable with the idea that she is also the deepest mirror I'll ever have. Because no one in the world sees all of my flaws, all of my mistakes, all the moments when I'm not perfect. You know, I always joke about how like my wife knows whether I meditate this morning

or not. Like no one else does. My wife knows and my wife knows whether it was quality or whether it was distracted. My wife knows whether I left my socks on the floor, you know, whatever, just whether it's silly or deep, it's, it's, she is in a position. And when your partner doesn't abuse that authority and doesn't use it as a form of control, but actually reflects back some care and compassion, it can be a really, it's, it's almost like you can't grow without it.

Have you, what have you, what scared you about relationships and what, like you said, you had no problem with women. That wasn't a thing, but what was revealed to you in your relationship? Yeah. Um, what's been revealed to you in your relationship is a better question. I think, I think, um, I'm constantly learning to let go. Because anything that I try to hold on to, whether it's good or bad, doesn't serve me. Not in the relationship. And it doesn't really serve either of us. And that's really hard to keep letting go and to keep letting her go. Because

I think when you're in a deeply loving, committed relationship, you want to control or own or have, and even just letting go of ideas of how things should be, or the idea of what intimacy or intimate moments are to you versus them, or how, you know, whatever it may be, because everybody, because you've chosen that person, you're on a journey with that person, you know, you're going to learn this lesson. And if you've chosen that person, then that's the person you're going to learn that lesson with. You know, I mean, that's the opportunity, right? That's real.

Yeah, that really resonates. I feel like that's why we'd rather let go of the person and have a new six month period with someone new, because you don't have to let go in that six months. Like that six months is almost full of holding on and every idea and every hope and possibility remains intact. Like you don't have to dismantle it or question it or break it down, but you are so right that the amount of misconceptions I've had to let go of as we spend more time together.

And I think it's going to change every day. Right? Absolutely. It's like every day you choose, I choose you. Yeah. You know, because also, you know, your wife is changing, right? Seven years from now, she's going to be a completely different human.

Yeah. You have no idea, right? You know, you can, I mean, you, you, you clearly have been around each other and you do probably know, know, have a sense, but we don't know. Oh, you don't know. It's the same thing as like, I may never see that person again. Every day it may, you may never see that version of that person again, or whatever, you know, whatever it may be, but like, yeah, we're just, you know, we have, we,

Yeah, we're just, you know, we have, we, I'm forced. I, I, I seize the opportunity every day to grow. And as you see from the show, I'll never choose the, uh, the easy path. You know, like it's just not who I am. And, you know, in some ways, my relationship is the greatest opportunity for my continual growth. And, you know, and I know we both see it that way. So that's how we grow. And we do. And she will not, you know, she'll hold me accountable and I'll do the same. And sometimes, you know, you'll be confronted by your own self, you know? And I think, you know, trust, right? Trusting your path, your journey, your faith, that this is what's meant for you. And then, you know, the universe will take care of the rest and making mistakes and going, okay, I did that was, yeah, did that. Sorry.

I, I, I sort of am like, there's no, yeah, I think, I think I've, you know, seen how learning more like the mistake. I think, like, I think very early on in life, actually, weirdly, I didn't. Enjoy making mistakes. Does anybody, I don't know. Maybe some people really do, but I didn't, I wasn't comfortable with messing up. It would be hard to find someone who enjoyed making mistakes. And yet anyone, any sage or worthy will tell you it's not,

it's only through mistakes that you grow, right? So it's like going, okay, you know, like, that's where the rich stuff is, that's where you're going to... So I just try to keep growing and, you know, like that's where the rich stuff is. That's where you're gonna... So I just try to keep growing and, you know, accepting and, you know. Yeah. How does it feel to introduce your Buddhist practices and teachings to the kids? Like, how does that work? I'm fascinated by... Well, yeah.

I really, I just, I say, Namimyo-renge-kyo to Daisy. And she'll say, she'll say, sometimes I'm the other side of the world on a movie, she'll be like, I say, Nam-myo-renge-kyo, and she'll be, Nam-myo-renge-kyo. Um, I think, and Flynn chanted, you know, from, I did the same with him. And I don't like, so Flynn's mother has a beautiful faith

in life, I think, And I really respect it. And I don't challenge any of the things, his views that he's obviously imbued through his mother. And you know, I, I, we, we, we love to go on walks. I love to go on walks with my son and, and we talk a lot. I try to, you know, and at different stages, look, he's 13 now, so it's almost like dad is getting pushed aside. And I kind of know what that feels like. I was the same, you know, so I'm not, I try not to take it personally. I miss him and I'm like, I just text him. I love him and I miss him, but, but we have these wonderful walks and talks and I kind of just throughout whatever we're saying, I try to keep reinforcing just the undercurrent philosophy

and thinking of my practice and which is just, are you respecting? If there is that kid in class who's not, are you supporting that kid that's not getting the support? Because that's where you'll find the richness, right? Because I kind of like, I know that's in his heart as well. I see it. And funny, he said to me, dad, you know, I'm really good at just. Bluffing. And I think like, but this is him at 13, you know, flexing a bit in this way of trying to like, trying to kick.

I'm like, yeah, but dad, I just knew that would, that would be the thing that people would have pretty good. We'll just keep working that then. Yeah. Cause even if you're thinking, we'll try and make you say you're going to do, just just knew that would be the thing that people would approve. I'm like, good, well, just keep working that then. Yeah. Because even if you're thinking, we'll try and make you say you're going to do, just keep working that. Even if it's, even if you think it's like you're putting on a show, fake it till you make it.

You know what I mean? Just keep doing the, just keep trying to do the right thing. And eventually you'll start to realize what the right thing is, right? But I love to walk and talk with him and I just don't overwhelm him with it. Because in my faith, I believe by saying, NAM MIOHO RENGE KYO. Say it to me. NAM MIOHO RENGE KYO.

NAM MIOHO RENGE KYO. So by saying this once, you never have to say it again. You protected seven generations in your past, seven generations in your future. Thank you for that gift. That's beautiful. So I believe that, deeply believe that. And I believe that too. So sometimes I will just walk up to somebody and say, just say nam-myo-renge-kyo, just once.

And I'll tell them that and then I'll walk away, whatever. And it'd be like, I believe that. It's like finding a needle in the haystack. And if you, so you never have to do it again. You've done it seven generations. I'll see every time I see you now. And if you ever, good. And if you ever, and if it was something that resonated with you at the time or

in my mind, then great. I, you know, I encourage people to do that. It's not, you know, I'm like, well, this is how you do it. You just, it's not, it's not a meditational process, right? Like a meditation I do as well. I have a meditation TM practice, but for me, it's like yoga for the mind. You know, it was like when I'm really stressed out, I feel like it, you know, that too much coffee.

You seem so, yeah. I'm no, I'm sitting here opposite Jay Shetty. Do you want me to show you the other side of me? No, I mean, like you can see it. You'll see the climbing episode. You'll see the party. Yeah, I haven't got there yet. You'll see the party mouth and the, I'm like, no, I'm like a red line.

I'm like, I really like mostly I'm like, I can really, you know, I can be in the red, like, um, and that's something that, that I just try to navigate, but I like that. I embrace it. I accept it. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? of navigate, but I like that. I embrace it. I accept it. Absolutely. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I can be on in that space. It's like, it's like the difference between driving at 30 or 60.

It's like, obviously I would, you know, God forbid you want to observe the speed limit because there are children and things, but like, I know what, you know, so sometimes I can be really intense. How have you, how have you accepted the parts of yourself that most of us judge, criticize or feel uncomfortable? Granted that they're not affecting other people. Aside from chanting Nami Orengekyo? I think because of that practice, I'm constantly looking at that, but I think it's time, honestly. And I think it's experience because the experiences have taught me like that.

You know, shame is not my friend guilt shame. If you spend any, if you, if you overly, if you spend too much time in that negative thought pattern, you know, we're light energy, we're like little planets, right? But if you broke our bodies down, I was having this conversation with somebody who was giving me a massage the other night, she's this amazing woman, and she was like, but we're like little galaxies. If you actually dissolved us, the trillions and billions of, you know, cells and everything. It's like a little galaxy. So we're all little galaxies going around the planet, right? In a way. So all of that energy, which as you know and talked about many times, it's like, it's whatever you're saying you become,

right? As we all know, all these old adages are so true. So it's not like, but so yeah, I think for me, it's like I, the shame game doesn't work. I don't want to, I don't want to receive it from anyone. I mean, I did this, I had this amazing experience and I went six years ago, maybe seven years ago now, seven years ago, more than seven years ago, nearly eight years ago, I went to the Hoffman Institute, which is wonderful. Yes.

Yeah. And it was, um, I'd had a really, I'd been seeing Kay for a year and I'd broken up and then we'd sort of, no, we hadn't actually, we'd broken up, yeah. I'd been seeing her for a little while and then we had broken up and we got back together. You know, the young love weirdness of trying to find things. But I'd been triggered into this really unique pattern of behavior that I felt I'd inherited from my mom, right? This thing of like, see me, I'm here, you know, with my mom. I'm over here, you know, I think, you know what I mean? And trying to get the attention, right? And I was like, oh, one of the worst years internally I can never remember because I felt like I was playing a part instead of

being a part. Because I had so many feelings and I was in water that it was uncharted. So a dear friend of mine, Buddhist, an actor friend from New York had suggested that I do this two years ago and I hadn't picked up on it. James Listene, this amazing actor, human, just wonderful person. And I was like, I sort of remembered when we'd had this breakup and I'd remembered I'd taken my passport, left everything else and walked into New York because we'd been in New York. And then I was like, got on in New York. And then I got on a plane home. But before I got on a plane home, I went to his house because it was like five in the morning when we'd had this rip-roaring order again. And I took my passport and walked out the

door and he'd talked about it. And so I did this course. And I left with these three thinking. And it was a wonderful week where you don't have your phone. You don't have the email. You have to say you have no connection to the outside world really. And you don't and people, you know, obviously I was me, but I had this nobody's there for that. So it's really people are on their own. They're all in their own form of net need. So I was wearing like a name tag. It was my childhood name or whatever. And then I did seven days of like, I guess, kind of like a group therapy and it felt like three years of therapy in seven days in a way.

And they take you on this beautiful journey through these seven days where you have like a Thanksgiving dinner, a Christmas dinner, a birthday, and a whole thing from, it's like, it's beautiful the way it's constructed. And I came out with this thinking, and I talked to James at that time about this as well of feeling safe, seen and celebrated. I want to feel safe. So in terms of my relationship, so with self first, right? So if I look in the mirror, I feel safe.

Do I feel safe with you today? Do I feel seen by you? Am I kind of observing myself? And do I feel celebrated, right? But really kind of observing myself and do I feel celebrated? But really it's for the people in my life. Like, do I feel safe with this person? Do I feel seen by this person? And am I feeling celebrated? And can I do that for them? Obviously, right? It's a mirror. So if I'm feeling that way, then you're good. It's a green light. And if I'm not, then I'm going to just step back, take pause until I can feel that way. And if I can't feel that way, then maybe life and the universe will take us on

different trajectories, but whilst I feel that way, so safe scene and celebrated was something that really made me kind of go, I came back into my life and into my relationship after this. And then I said, we separated. It was interesting. And I was like, okay, this is what's meant. This is some years ago now. Yeah.

But this stickiness that we had, this connection, and she was never really not a part of my thoughts. And she would reach out in weird ways, like Instagram or whatever, and I'd be like, processing, and I was like... So I'm, and then I made a decision because I had this safe scene celebrated thing, not to see her unless she would, and then she actually did this at this Hoffman as well. Wow. And had an amazing experience herself.

Wow. And so we just kind of, I think it was like the, it created a foundation. So we're constantly sort of bouncing off this thing. And sometimes the foundation is really rocky. Of course. Um, and sometimes I don't know, you know, sometimes I'm like, are we, is the universe, are we still going? I gave her this picture of a tree, you know, and I was like, and it was, it was

this beautiful, I bought it in India, I think, but it was this, this, these two trees growing as one, I was like, this is, this is what it should be, right? So long as we can, the branches can go all over the place, but the roots and the base of the tree is the trunk is growing together. You know, it's the pillars of the temple, right? You need them to stand strong together so that you can hold the scent, you know, hold that. But I, yeah, it's been a, yeah. Tune into the new podcast, Stories from the Village of Nothing Much. Like easy listening, but for fiction. If you've overdosed on bad news,

we invite you into a world where the glimmers of goodness in everyday life are all around you. I'm Catherine Nicholai, and you might know me from the Bedtime Story podcast, Nothing Much Happens. I'm an architect of Cozy, and I invite you to come spend some time where everyone is welcome and kindness is the default. When you tune in, you'll hear stories about bakeries and walks in the woods, a favorite booth at the diner on a blustery autumn day,

cats and dogs and rescued goats and donkeys, old houses, booksh shops, beaches where kites fly and pretty stones are found. I have so many stories to tell you and they are all designed to help you feel good and feel connected to what is good in the world. Listen, relax, enjoy. Listen to stories from the Village of Nothing Much on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For all the parents out there, picture that it's bedtime. You and the kids have been busy all day. You know they're tired, but with all that anxious energy, they just won't go to sleep. This was my kids every night. But I did find that stories calmed their mind and gave them something

to focus on. So six years ago, I created the kids podcast Bedtime History to help solve that problem. Bedtime History is a series of relaxing history stories that end with an inspirational message. We have episodes about Jackie Robinson, Neil Armstrong, Maya Angelou, and Sokka Jowaya. Episodes also include topics like space exploration, engineering, the rise and fall of civilizations, and major events like the civil rights movement and the transcontinental railroad. With over 2,000 positive parent reviews, Bedtime History is one of the top education podcasts. This week join me and listen to Bedtime History every Monday and Thursday on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of a mega hit sitcom, Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's gonna catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor. It's part of

what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Old rock icon, Liz Fair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. That's great criteria that I like that safe scene and celebrate. Yeah.

It's like a beautiful way of checking and connecting wavelength. Yes. The visual you just painted right now of the two trees feels perfect. Like that visual just resonated so strongly. Sometimes people are not up for that as well though. No. Sometimes they're not ready for that. She, like I, it can be really overwhelming.

It can be really overwhelming. All of your good intention, right? All of your desire for the greatest outcome can be super intimidating and overwhelming depending on whether your wife is ready. Yes. In that day, in that moment. And as we know from, you know, the remarkable, you know, I had this, I thought I was like,

when I had Daisy, my daughter, I was like, I mean, I feel like every man should have a daughter before they get married, in a way, because it's like, you see every emotion under the sun in the split second and it's like, and you have nothing but love because you're there. There's no judgment. There's just like, I'm just like marveling

at her explosion of emotion. And she'd be like, no daddy, no dad, mommy, I want that. And I'm gonna be like, if I'd been in, you know, a partner, a reflection of a partner doing that could have really messed me up at different times. I'm like, what? See me, look at me, look at me, look at me.

I'm over here, mommy, I'm over here. You know, whatever it may be, you know, our patterns from, from childhood, whatever that may be. And I like, and I'm like, oh, it's, it's in a way it's like, you know, so I can have those, you know, with a powerful human, you know, that, that, that I've chosen in some ways every day. It's like, you've got to keep leveling up and trying and making mistakes and going, okay, no, that didn't work. Or I'm going to do this and that's no, no, don't do that.

You might, you know, but, you know, sometimes it's very interesting, isn't it? I think the masculine in, in, in, in relation to the feminine, you know, like my mind map again, you know, like I'd set an intention around the thing and it was like, oh no, it's not women. It's like the feminine within you. It's like, but in this world that we live in, it's like trying to find the right level because it's not like obvious, you know, it's not, there's no, it's, you know, I think people are always,

you know, how do you, how do you have the right balance? It's like, it's like, it's like sometimes you're just really, you know, overly overly, you know, edgy. And sometimes you just like, you can be that you can hold that big space cause you, cause in your mind you're capable. But you know, I think it's just choosing, right? You just keep choosing, you choose life and you choose to go on a journey and you choose to keep it real and you choose to, for me at least.

Yeah, I feel what you said about, like for me, my sister's like four and a half years younger than me or something and I feel like I remember holding her when she was born. My last year I got to walk her down the aisle at her wedding. Like, and it was, I've always, my nickname for my sister is Kid, because I've treated her like my daughter since she was born. And she's always felt that way to me. And you're so right. Like my wife will always say to me,

gosh, when you're around your sister, you're just, you know, completely different. And it's that fatherly, brotherly. Does she like that? My sister? No, your wife, does she? She finds it adorable. Oh, she likes it. She finds it adorable. Does she like that? Or my sister? No, your wife. Does she?

She finds it adorable. Oh, she likes it. She finds it adorable. She's like, lean into that more. Is that not really? Not so much? It's just like, no. She finds that adorable, but she sees what capacity I have for tolerance and for what

you're saying, that being that bigger, holding space. When you have your own daughter. Yeah, when you have it for that love. And you're so right that when you've been able to experience that, it's so much easier to understand. I always feel like I was raised by my mom and tried to raise my sister the best as I could. And it was almost like that's made me a better husband than I would have been. Because I had a different experience with women that I wouldn't have had if I didn't have a younger sister

and had a younger brother or whatever it may have been. Right, right, right. And so that resonates very strongly. But also this idea of, I've seen myself act with my wife, with the people I love in a way that I don't like at all. And I've seen myself act in the best way possible. And I'll oscillate between the two, depending on where I'm at on any given day.

And it's what you said earlier, that it takes two people to be able to let go. It takes two people to be able to forgive. It takes two people to be able to not over amplify or underreact or overreact. And you're constantly playing in that space. If you want a loyal, committed long-term relationship, which has very different positives than a short, easy, quick moment. Quick fix, yeah. Yeah.

And it's almost like, it's what you said, it's choosing what you want. Once you decide, we have that idea in my practice, once it's like, and Sensei discusses, you know, once you decide, your whole world will move in that direction. Once you decide, you know what I mean? Everything is set up for the universe to support that decision, but you must decide whatever it may be. And then if the wheels fall off along the way, you know, you realize that you've decided and there are mistakes, but then you set about fixing. And I, you know, I wrote this, um, like a mission statement when I first met her because I wanted to

try to articulate all these crazy feelings I was having at the time, which was like a reveal that I hadn't had in a long time in some way. And one of the things I said in this letter I wrote her was, you know, I want us to, we're going to bring our little kids out, you know, our inner child, we're going to bring out and I'll duke it out with you as much as you like. So long as you just promise to keep getting up, you know, because it's like, if we don't get up, I need to know that like you'll duke it out, I'll duke it out, but that we'll get up, I need to know that like you'll do get out, I'll do get out, but that we'll get up, you know, and keep, you know, because that's, cause it doesn't matter about

you got, you're going to go down. People are going to make mistakes. Things are going to happen. Life is, is, is set for that. You know, there it's not, you know, it's not meant to be the opportunities. As we said at the beginning for growth, don't come through an easy path. They come and they're not when everything's going great. It's when the shit's hit the fan, right?

And that's when, you know, so I kind of feel like I'm constantly like, when's the next one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next lesson, when's the next one coming up? You know, how much, how much, you know, how much humility do I need to learn today? You know, what do I need to do? And what choices have I made that have led to this? And, and how am I going to own that?

What's the difference? What's the difference with that? Cause I, I resonate with that. I always say to people that when things are going bad, work hard, and when things are going good, work harder, right? You're always pushing yourself to learn, grow, evolve more when actually things are good. Because a lot of us, we do the opposite. When things are good, we get complacent, we get lost.

What is the difference for you between that mindset getting exhausting versus energizing? Because I think a lot of people would say, gosh, if I'm always having to figure out what to learn and what message and from the universe and my partner, that's exhausting. Yeah, yeah. But it seems like you're energized by that, which is what you see in the show. Like you're energized by the idea that there's more to learn. What's the difference? What have you found?

How are you able to sustain that level of wanting to evolve and grow? I think, I think that I just came in that way, bro. That's just how you're built. I think I came in that way. I think we all come in different, right? When I reflect on all of the opportunities for growth in my life,

they all reinforce this idea that this is what I need to learn at this time. Right? In retrospect, when you're younger and in that moment of crisis, whatever that may be. And listen, I didn't have a mobile phone till I was 20, right? But there is a window of time in my life, which is almost like a void because of the immense pressure and experience that life was throwing at me at such a rapid pace that I literally can like, there are blacks, almost feel like black spots, right? Like I can't even like my friend, best friends will go, remember when we went to Japan on that press and I was like, we went to Japan together? I'm like, yeah, I'm like, okay.

So you know, but yeah, I think that's it. I think that, I think saying at a young age with a practice like mine helped me as well to recognize because we're constantly reinforcing this idea of opportunities through obstacles or opportunities. And even when you're in it, it's nightmares, these exams, this thing, this, you know, or this boyfriend or this girlfriend or this situation, this like, I think it's always simplified as well. Steady. Like life, you know, is, you know, at least my experience is like, I love the high octane, right? And I've been at that depth. I love the depth as well. But when I'm steady, when I'm just, when I just like,

come back to the simple, right? Simplify. Because sometimes you just need a walk, you know what I mean? You just need to go outdoors. Sometimes you just need to look at the sky, take a deep breath. Sometimes it's just, and it's a few little touchstones that you can create for yourself, you know, so that you have tools, right? Create your own toolbox. And I think that's what I got from just so many different things, whether it's Hoffman or a plant journey.

Yeah, so many. Or an encounter with somebody important or my relationship to Daisaku Okada, my mentor or, and I think it's also we're wired, we're all wired differently. So like, you know, if you, but if you keep leaning into that area of, and not being afraid to lean into the discomfort of life, then that's what the show is giving you, you know, you're leaning into the discomfort, you get the benefit, right? Yeah. And, you know, again, that might just be getting up from your couch, turning off the TV or

not scrolling on your phone or putting, you know, just deleting that app for like 24 hours so that you're just not being ruled by something outside of yourself. I think in this new age, right, we've been in the age of the internet. I think in this new age of AI, which we're all there's so much anxiety and sort of, you know, nervousness around. And I saw, you know, Sam Altman speak about some of this stuff. And I thought it was so interesting. But I think my takeaway from what he had said and what I think is true for my life and what I can sense is discipline, self-discipline, because it's a choice to pick up your phone. It's a choice to get lost in your phone. It's a choice to keep scrolling, or you can choose to put it down

and step outside and simplify, do that meditation, do that yoga class. It's all choices, right? But I think that as and when we see this new chapter of life, it's going to be totally different. My son, your children, when you come into the world, they're not going to know a world without super intelligence. They're just not going to know that. Like my son doesn't know a world without the internet. How's that impacted his life? I do. But they're not going to know a world without super intelligence. And it's going to bring remarkable benefit to our lives. No doubt, I'm sure. Health, healing, access, life. But it's like those old adages, like devil's hands, you know, idle, idle hands of the devil's playground. So I keep thinking like, what's going to be my, what's the discipline I'm going to create the routines and disciplines to create and keep working out so that I don't slip off into that.

Cause I do it. I can find myself just going, and I kind of love my algorithm, by the way. Like, it'll send me all of your things and other people's, you know, and like messaging around, it's definitely listening to me, messaging around, oh, this relationship person is talking about fantastic things, you know?

And I'm like, oh, that would be great for the world to see or whatever, you know, whatever it may be. So like, don't, there's not, it's not all bad, but it is, I think the discipline, the self mastery of discipline, right? Self-discipline and self mastery to know. It's the one skill needed. The one is the one that will protect.

Because if you're like, what do they call them in games where it's like non-player NPC, is it? NPC, yeah. Right. We can all become those. call them in games where it's like non-player MPC, is it? Right? Yeah. We can all become those. We can all just switch off and turn on our autopilot and just be like, because you don't want to cause overwhelming. It's overwhelming.

You're overwhelmed by the consistent. I mean, you know, if you keep looking at the news, you're just going to be overwhelmed. It's wild. It's wild. You're just going to be overwhelmed. It's wild. It's wild. I have so many friends who were like on both sides of, you know, conflicts, you know, whether, you know, and just, it's just, you just go, you

can just be overwhelmed. Yeah. You can just get, that is where we're at. I think we're overwhelmed. We're over consuming where we're overexposed. Over. It's like we see and hear and understand we get and there's no discipline.

So much more information than, than, than we need. And then we continue to get more and then what's true. What's not true. It's a lot. And that's why it's a lot. And that's why if anyone's not feeling disciplined or struggling, there's a lot of compassion and empathy there because it's so hard. I, you show me a human. I'll show you to anyone, right? is struggling, there's a lot of compassion and empathy there because it's so hard.

You show me a human, I'll show you anyone, right? And that's true of relationships, right? I think one of the things, like, Leigh-Ed and Gabby Hamilton were a big part of my life at a period in my life a few years ago that were, where I was separated from my partner, Flynn's mum. And I was living kind of on my own in Malibu and they were such a really beautiful couple. The way they, I learned so much

from seeing how they interacted. And I always appreciate that. I took that away with me, but I think it's like, I kind of respect couples more than anything else almost now today, somehow as well. When we talk about relationship, because it's the people that have kind of gone, they're continuing to choose and not to upgrade or think they're

upgrading or that the grass is greener, you know, because we can all do that. Of course. And maybe we will, and there's no judgment there either too. By the way, no judgment on any of it. But personally, I kind of go, oh, wow. You know, I admire that because it doesn't, it's not easy, man. You know, because there's, as we age and change, it's like we're all being told that like,

you can get this new handbag that will go with this new car or you can get this new watch and this new thing and you're just going to keep going. And I love a shiny object. So do I, yeah. I love a shiny object, you know. How have you managed to maintain your Buddhist practice and philosophy in Hollywood?

Because I imagine that... Dude, that Buddhist philosophy and products has maintained, has been my anchor. I haven't maintained it. It's been my... It's maintained me, it's held me. I really feel like it's my super cape. You can tell that. It's my cape. It's obvious.

It's my superpower, you know, and it's available to anyone, but I got it at a young age and I'm like, it's my wings, it's my shield, it's my wisdom, it's my courage, it's my compassion, if I just use it. And sometimes I won't. There were days I won't chant and I'm like, I mean, look, I'm years and years into this. So it's just, I feel that it's never gone far from me, but I know when I'm not, I'm like, wait, what's going on? Often it's been when I've been in a relationship, by the way.

Often I've been in a relationship and I don't. I was like, wait, what? Why is that? Why am I not when I'm, because what's being so, yeah, but it's been, it was, that was, it was my, yeah, it was literally my. I can feel it. It's very obvious.

It's very evident from the show and today. It's very real in your, in your veins. What's something you feel you're being called right now? What's the fear you're being called to overcome right now? Or the lesson that you're being questioned. I sat with this question last year and it was really, really interesting for me in my own meditation. It was revealed to me that if I really want to serve and have the impact that

I want to have, that I'll have to be okay with dealing with more stress, pain, external kind of energy coming at you to overcome so that you can paint a bigger canvas. Correct. But it will require that. And that was a very interesting, almost request or question that I was hearing from the universe or from God or from my own spiritual practice of this is what's required of you. Are you ready for you? Are you okay? What have you heard that or felt that you're being, what fear are you being asked to overcome or what lesson are you being asked to learn right now? If anything comes up, because you've

conquered so many fears and the show and gone to the edge. What's, what's an edge that is many fears and the show and gone to the edge. What's an edge that is being requested of you? I think that our deepest fears are often, they often lie in areas unknown to us, subconscious, even in our subconscious. Some of the deepest fears I have are related to a historical pattern of behavioral thinking, which I don't know that I was even conscious of. I've inherited, and possibly in my mind because of my practice and faith, generationally lifetimes, previous lifetimes of thinking. Because that's how I kind of live my life like for the next life. I'm like, that's how I'm looking at it now. I'm like, I'm living for the next one. You know, it's like, like the Egyptians with the

temples, it's like they were doing that because it was like, and I kind of like, if I can live like that. But I think that when I allow myself, it feels connected to, I think, self-worth, which I think is something that like, we all kind of like, you know, like is Jay ready for that bigger canvas? Is he ready to put that message out into the world? Does he deserve that? Has he done enough for that? Am I worthy of that?

Right. Have I, have I done the work? Am I doing that? Am I in the flow enough? Am I, and also like, because it's not, it's cyclical, right? It's sometimes you're just not in the flow enough. Am I? And also like, cause it's not, it's cyclical, right? Sometimes you're just not in the flow. I had seven years of just being what felt like some of that like swimming up river just, and I, cause I was just, I'm going to throw up this river now for some reason, you know, and that was probably that time when I was separated and

living in Melbourne, like training with led and stuff. And I really kind of put my body and my mind through a lot of different, before I did the shot even, before I did to the edge. So I think, I think it really, for me, it's like that we're enough, right? I think somebody said it on your wall there, that you're enough. But it's like, I think we all struggle sometimes to really deeply believe that we are enough, that we're valued, that we're valuable. You know, we're imprinted by our parents from the age of zero to seven, right? But that's not even taking into account the time that you're in your mother's. So there's a whole heap of information that is just like, is it yours or is it somebody else's?

I'm constantly trying to go like, how do I detach from this idea of what is is that, is that my, is that, is that my baggage? I don't look like my baggage. I mean, I know, okay, that's mine. All right. I'll take that. Let's unpack that. All that other stuff, you know, and I've, I've, I think Hoffman taught me a lot in that space, but I think I've, interestingly, like, it's a fear of like being alone. Are you good to be alone?

I think that was the biggest for me in a long time. Am I good to just be on my own? Am I, and I'm, I'm constantly working on that. Am I good enough on my own? Because am I good in my own company? Do I feel good with me just to be with just me today or for this next hour? Because I spent a lot of time in my youth with people who I really love and admire and adore and continue to, but in a way it wasn't serving

me. I was like, it was, you know, we talk about energy and drains and things, you know, there were, there were relationships in my life that I didn't even really realize that the impact that they were having. And then when I did, I was like, Oh, wait a second, this needs reframing. And until I'm ready to reframe, I'm going to just take pause to feel safe, seen, and celebrated. But I think that, I think my, so in amongst all of that, I think it was probably being alone and being good with being alone and recognizing, because we're going to be born and we're going to die alone.

So it's like, how, how, how good are you with being alone? Right? That's beautiful. I think that you're enough, right? You don't need all the other things. Because I love a shiny object. I, you know, whatever. Although this isn't shiny, but it's the one from New Zealand. I don't, yeah.

But you know, I do. I've got a fast car. Couple. Do I need them? I like the way it feels. But you know, do we need to keep consuming all this stuff? When the planet is got a ticking clock? It's interesting.

It's really interesting. I find that we're all paradoxes and we're almost giving ourselves permission to be a paradox until all of it's purified. And it's almost the permission is what allows you the ability to purify. Whereas if you're living in the conflict of I'm only one thing, you don't get the opportunity to dissolve the part that you may not be comfortable with because you haven't accepted it. Yeah. But no, that answer was beautiful. Being alone and being comfortable in your own skin and being enough and that is the lifelong journey.

I feel like that's, you know, that is it. And, well, I feel like I could talk to you for hours. We have. And I hope we do. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we will, we should. I wanna end with what we end every episode on, which is called the final five of On Purpose.

These are pretty much the same five questions that everyone gets answered, and every question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. Gosh, I hate that kind of pressure. These are your final five, and you can take your time. They're thoughtful questions. Orlando, these are your final five.

The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? My mother used to say, have respect from the doorman to the director. And I think respect, all life, anyone you meet, because we're all on that journey. I think respect, all life, anyone you meet, because we're all on that journey. And the person that's opening the door for you could be running the country.

You just don't know. That's a great answer. Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever had or received? The worst. I mean, the worst advice. That's a really tricky one. You can skip it if your mind's blocked out.

That's pretty cool. I, yeah, it's hard for me to, that's good. Hard for me to, the worst advice. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, dude. No, that's good. Don't be sorry.

That's totally great. I mean, if you blocked all out, that's awesome because I, I like to make a log of bad advice everyone's received because I feel like there's so much bad advice that goes around. I mean, I like, yeah, I'm not. No, you blocked out. That's cool. Yeah. I'm like, if it doesn't, if I mean, I like, yeah, I'm not. No, you blocked out, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, if it doesn't, if it's not a aha for me, I'm like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, leave it, leave it, that's what I'm saying. I don't mind, I'll skip the question. Don't need to apologize. Question number three, what's the first thought you have in the morning and the last one you have at night? So we wake up in a family bed and Katie usually says, thank you God for today, I'm grateful in every way especially for and Daisy will go and we'll go daddy mommy you know we'll all do that that's beautiful and that's an old and say yeah, I think graduate. Yeah.

And at night, yeah, it's the same. It's the same because it's like we woke up, you know, and I think, yeah. Question number four. Um, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? Uh, whoo. Um, dude, that's so annoying. Other people's opinions of me. Great answer. Uh, fifth and final question we asked this to every guest who's ever been on

the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I think it comes back to my first answer that my mother kind of instilled in me, which is just respect. Yeah. You know, a law of respecting life, all life. law of respecting life, all life. Daisaku Ikeda wrote this amazing letter. He came to the UK, I think it was in the 80s, to visit the youth members. And he was there, but he chose not to stand before them to have a communication. I think because he could feel the anticipation and the complete. So he wrote this letter, or he may have been busy, but he was there,

but it was a choice, is from my answer. And within it, he said, there's a piece about, I'm going to not maybe land this, but you'll get the point. This lifetime is about, you know, from the material, from the external to the internal and making all mothers happy. Because I'd love to actually find the quote. Yeah, do it. Yeah, do it. Okay, so here we go. I'd love to actually find the quote. Yeah, do it, do it. Yeah, do it. Okay, so here we go. I'm a member of a Buddhist organization since I'm 16 and my mentor is a Japanese man in

Japan, a man named Daisaku Okada. And in 1994, he wrote a message of encouragement to the youth of the UK. He wouldn't see them, but he sent this message. This is an excerpt from the message that he sent to these children for them to listen to. He reserved himself from being there. But I wanted to read it because I feel it's so important and I had it written for you as well to read along but it says the times are changing from an age where justice, from an age where power is justice to an age in which justice is power. In this new age, the supreme guiding principle will be the benefit of all humanity rather

than the interests of one particular nation or ethnic group. We will see the transformation of history from the revolution of the external environment to that of the inner self the inner Human revolution it will be an age in which the actions of leaders will naturally Be based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy The actions of leaders will be naturally based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy. Respect, right? Because we can't, us mortal men, really fathom the power of what it means to be a mother in the world. But if we can have a little bit of, because,

you know, so interesting, isn't it? So interesting to see the times how they've been changing and how this masculine that's been living in with us and we've been living with and under and around and for and is sort of transformed and how we're learning, particularly as men, to respect and understand the power of the mother. Mother Earth, mother mother, the mothers. And he goes on to say about respecting your father and mother. And I really think he means all fathers, all mothers. I was talking about this with David who introduced me to my practice just earlier. And we were saying, he was saying, it's, I've really come to understand that it's all mothers, respect all mothers, respect all fathers, particularly because they hopefully have some sense, you know, of the value of life. And there was some people that don't, of course there are some people that that's not, But yeah, so I think that's that's that was beautiful idea. I've never heard it been put

that way. It's a wonderful, you know, and that idea as well, which actually, interestingly, I wrote a note of what Sam said about Altman and he was like, the journey is now because I think it's way more, it's not the external, it's the internal. If we are those little galaxies, right? If we really start to understand each of us and have like respect and take responsibility, right? Imagine if, you know, I think what I kind of understood about my practice was if I'm good enough and capable enough to just take care of my side of the street, right? Then if I get so good at it, I can start to take care of other people's side of the street. Because there are some people that just don't have the skill set. They may not have had the education, they may not have had the upbringing, whatever it may be, the circumstances. They were born into a life that just didn't provide anything like the tools necessary

to be able to cope with what life is. Like those obstacles I was talking about, that for some people it's just, it's just there the whole time, right? It's like if we're all becoming capable humans and able of taking care, then we can start taking care of your neighbor, right? You know what I mean? Start taking care of the person next to you because they can't, right?

Because that's what it's gonna take, right? In my mind for this next chapter with where, you know, jobs are not what they used to be and people need, you know, that boundary, right? They need that frame of reference. They need that kind of security through boundaries, right? So yeah, the discipline, but the respect and the, all mothers happy. Let's make all mothers happy.

It's funny. Sometimes I don't do that though, by the way. I try, we try. You've said it here now. Everyone who's been listening and watching, thank you so much Orlando. Thank you for being, what I was saying to you a second ago, thank you for being so vulnerable,

thanks for being so open, thanks for being in a space of discovery to, you know, this conversation was us discovering what was in your heart, what was in your mind, it was us kind of unraveling and opening, and those to me are my favorite conversations when you don't know where you're going, but you know you're going there together.

And I think that's so true for so much of what we discussed and everyone's been listening and watching back at home or at work or wherever you are in the world, make sure you tune into the edge, which is premiering on April 18th, if you haven't already. And also, please, please, please let me and Orlando know on Instagram, TikTok, you guys cut up the best clips and everything. Let me know what resonated, what connected tag us both so we can see what you're practicing, what you're staying with you and what you're putting in and implementing and applying in your life. But a big thank you to Orlando for showing up so deeply and wonderfully. And I'm excited for more of these conversations with you for sure.

Me too, bro. Me too. Absolutely. Love it. Thanks so much, family. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you. Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say,

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