On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Reneé Rapp ON: How to Break the Patterns of Negative Self Talk & Ways to Stop Using External Judgement to Measure Your Achievement

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

Anxiety is an ongoing battle that happens right inside your mind. Your mind becomes this never-ending movie reel of worst-case scenarios, and it just keeps on playing.  When we're stuck with anxious thoughts, we want to find an escape. Today, singer and songwriter Reneé Rapp, known for her role of Regina George in the Tony-nominated Mean Girls musical on Broadway, sits down with me to share her incredible journey.  Reneé and I offer insights on how to prepare oneself mentally and emotionally for the inevitable disappointments that life may bring, the insidious nature of self-criticism and its far-reaching effects, and the art of expressing vulnerability without fearing miscommunication. Self-doubt can be a formidable obstacle to pursuing one's passions. We will also explore the strategies to confront and overcome self-doubt and overcome the role of being one's own harshest critic. In this interview, you will learn: How to understand perception and well-being How to prepare for future disappointment How to be less self-critical How to manage your inner voice How to express insecurities effectively How to stay resilient in challenging situations Together, let us transform uncertainties into positivity and look forward to reshaping our mindset.   With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Reneé Rapp’s debut album “Snow Angel” is out now http://reneerapp.lnk.to/snowangel  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:46 Understanding how others perceive you and its impact on your well-being 05:05 What happens with you come face-to-face with a stalker 06:57 Ways to not prepare yourself for future disappointment   09:03 Why excessive self-criticism can hurt your self-confidence 11:20 How do you interpret your inner voices?  14:32 How to find a mindset to help yourself improve  17:45 Cultivating a passion for acting, even when it presents occasional challenges 20:41 How do you express your insecurities effectively without fearing miscommunication 23:08 Do you let self-doubt keep you from pursuing your passions? 26:55 How resilient are you in the most unfavorable situations? 35:19 Placing trust in the wrong people can have adverse consequences on your life 40:44 How to find a strong inner group filled with trust 41:39 Reneé recounts a traumatic experience  45:16 Stay focused on the love for your family and the special people in your life 48:03 How can you escape the self-imposed role of being your own harshest critic? 50:46 What would you tell yourself now? 52:48 If you could unlearn something from your past, what new knowledge or skill would you want to acquire now? 55:16 How can you transform the uncertainties in your life into more positive, joyful experiences? 01:17 Renee on Final Five  Episode Resources: Reneé Rapp | YouTube Reneé Rapp | Instagram Reneé Rapp | TikTok Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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like getting angry so fast. I just am so afraid to celebrate myself and then be like clapped in the face. I don't want that. I value like being very true to how you feel, whether that's a good feeling or not. That's powerful. Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button, I love your support, it's incredible

to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you, thank you so much for subscribing, it means the world to me. The best selling author in the host. The number one health and wellness podcast. I'm on purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose. The number one health podcast in the world,

thanks to each and every single one of you that keep coming back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now you know that the conversations we want to have on this platform are conversations of the heart and soul, conversations of the mind, conversations that help us become better, live better, evolve, understand our authentic selves

and share that journey with our friends. And today's guest is someone who I believe has been on a rollercoaster of a journey and trying to navigate that and manage that with grace and with contentment in a way that I'm excited to explore today and get curious about. Today's guest is Renee Rap and she knew she was born to perform ever since she was a kid. Renee's career took off when she landed the coveted role of Regina George in the Tony nominated Mean Girls musical on Broadway. Shortly after, Renee found widespread

recognition and praise from the likes of Harper's Bazaar and the Hollywood Reporter for her performance as late in on the HBO Max series The Sex Lives of College Girls. Big fan over here. Renee then turned her attention back to music, sharing her threadbare insecurities on her debut single Tatus, and the multi-hyphen and tired debut headline tour sold out in a matter of minutes. Her inspiring single too well has impacted the top 40 and Renee's discography has amassed

over 200 million streams and counting. And today we're talking about her new work which I can't wait to dive into Renee. Welcome to the show. Thanks, thanks for having me. Honestly, I feel like you've been through so much change, so many, you know, career paths. And then I was like, you're so young as well. And I was like, wow, like, it's so much that you've been through. And I guess my first question is,

how do you feel about where you've landed now? Like, who is the Renee today? What version of this is you? How are you feeling? My manager and I were just talking about this in the car. Every couple of months, I get into this new wave of like, where like something really settles in, where I'm like at a new level,

or I feel like personally I'm at a new level, or I'm at like a different level of visibility, typically in the past, it's felt really good. Right now, to be honest, it feels very scary in a lot of ways. Just like in a, I'm really aware of myself all of a sudden. So I love the changes. I feel very grateful right now for everything I've done and hopefully knock on wood or whatever continue to do.

But the new, the new, the newness and the new levels when they come, they'd knocks me, it knocks me. What's scary? I am becoming much more aware of how people perceive me. And whether that's good or bad or in between, I feel some kind of way about it. And I'm trying to let that go really bad. I'm trying to really, really hard.

It's not been working. I'm like, we had a bunch of stuff come out this morning about the album and granted this is all fairly good news. But I immediately just started having such an anxiety attack because I was like, oh, I just don't want anybody to ever speak about me again, which is exactly why I'm here today. And exactly why I keep doing this.

Yeah, it's a weird thing. I don't know. I don't know. It's interesting. It's never really sat with me before in that way. Like this really hit me about a week ago where I was like, oh, I've actually chosen to like have a very visible life.

Just really hit me to be honest. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Yeah, in my own small way, I can relate to that as well. Oh, it's the same thing though. What's really interesting is I think from the outside in, a level up looks quite, at least from the way I perceive it. My opinion.

I think from the outside in, most people's careers level up look very orchestrated and manufactured. When in reality, they're a lot more organic. Yeah. And they're a lot more natural. I think so. I think so, especially like, especially of course, I'm such like an internet rat.

Like I really have to get better about like, not reading everything. I'm so bad at that. I commend people who are good at being like, I'm gonna turn my phone off and not take this to heart. I cannot do that. I care so much and I gotta let that go. But I definitely feel that way,

because I read things sometimes, like I'm an I shouldn't be reading, but that are so interesting to me. Like somebody the other day called me an industry plant, and I was like, oh, I wish I was an industry plant. I was like, that would be amazing. I was like, that would be iconic. I was like, if like, my father was like some like industry

mogul, that would be lovely. He went into like medical sales. Like, he didn't help me out like that, you know, so. Yeah, it's always, it's always interesting. And I find it really silly and funny, but yeah. Yeah, and then it must be hard. I mean, obviously I think everyone's seen it. The video where you sadly have a stalker coming up

to you and Drew on set on stage. Yeah. And then it's almost like looks like you've been notified and you kind of see it coming and then you're protecting Drew. Like I mean, like when you have moments like that happen, does that almost make you feel more vulnerable and susceptible? I feel like even to say it out loud, it sounds so silly and so like what was me?

But I really was so weirded out by that whole thing. And I, that's not to say that it shouldn't be. I just like, I don't know. She's such a G and she's such a pro and sadly has probably had that happen her entire life. I've never been in situations where that has happened to myself, luckily, or anybody around me. That was so scary.

Because I don't know. Like, he had like a bag on him and I was like, okay, I I don't know. Like, you never, he had like a bag on him and I was like, okay, I just don't know where this could go. Also, I live in fight or flight just by the nature of having so much anxiety. So like, when you see me like twitch in that video and like go, it's like half of like, A, I'm like a pretty like transparent person.

Like if somebody like scares me, you're gonna know. And also be like, that was so darned for me. But yeah, I don't know. I just never been through anything like that before. To me, I'm like, I know it sounds very woe as me and silly, but it did scare the hell out of me. Yeah, not as... It was very weird.

Fully understandable. I'm glad that, you know, it didn't go any further than it did. Same. And yeah, it's always worrying. Again, I think it's the unpredictability of it. I was reading a study that was saying that humans would rather know 100% that a bad thing's going to happen, as opposed to have a 50-50 chance of it happening or not happening. Oh, my God. Yeah, probably.

Right. Like, we'd rather know that something bad's going to happen rather than living this world of like, it could or it couldn't. Yeah. Like that uncertainty, you've been doing this for a long time. What parts of your anxiety of, you got better at dealing with them, but what parts of anxiety are like, still just flaring out? Well, it's funny because I think that I, I get what you're saying, because 100% of my decision-making happens before I do something like this morning, right?

Like when like chart data or things are coming out about like the album, but for anything was even posted, published out there, whatever. I had already made the assumption and was already like, okay, people are going to be upset about this. This is going to be not real. I've already decided that it's bad before it happens so that I can prepare myself to at least not be so disappointed. So I definitely do that.

Does that help? I actually don't know. I don't know because for everyone around me, like all they say is like, we really want you to enjoy things and like, we want you to be having fun and we want you to be able to celebrate yourself. I just am so afraid to celebrate myself and then be like slapped in the face. I don't want that. I don't know.

And I don't know if it's not great to say I would rather live in a state of like just like chillin and like hope that nothing horrific happens but be prepared if it does. I don't know what's better or worse. I'm not sure. I don't think there is. I just wanted to know what I do feel, yeah. No, yeah, I don't know. I mean, don't get me wrong. I would love to

enjoy things a little bit more. I'm not really there right now. I still I still I think have like the same anxieties as when I started. It's just more that I'm much more aware of how I'm perceived now. And you feel before you just went aware and so yeah, I just kind of was like, oh like oh this is me I'm so out here and don't care and whatever I was always just so hungry to do this and to be doing music that it was just like run for it and now I kind of feel like that I'm embarking on whatever music looks like in my life I'm much more nervous about it maybe just because I'm much more nervous about it.

Maybe just because I'm in it and experiencing it, but it's definitely weird. It's definitely weird. Do you have to turn down the outside noise when you're creating and when you're making and are you able to do that? Or is it just so hard and? It's not something that I really think of when I'm creating. It's something I think of when I'm acting.

I'm more so thinking about like for me, like do I feel like I'm creating something I think of when I'm acting. I'm more so thinking about like for me like do I feel like I'm doing the best I possibly can. I'm so hyper critical of myself when I'm writing that I'm not even worried about another person because I don't even have the space in my brain to think about someone else's opinion if that makes sense. Which I guess is nice. Yeah, it sounds great. It sounds good to me. It's a little nicer. Yeah, it's bad when I write like a really bad song though. Because when I write a bad song, like my like worst critic is myself and it's like,

oof. What's the thought you think you repeat the most at those times? I will never write another good song again. It goes to that extreme. Oh my God, it's two seconds. And that everybody around me is lying to me and that everybody who is kind enough to work with me and put their time and energy toward things that I really want for my career and how sweet that is, that they're all making ginormous mistakes.

And this is all a leap of faith that they've taken that they're going to regret. Immediately jump into that, totally. And then how long would you sit in that for? Long time. Long time. Like this morning, again, good things were happening. And I was just like, in my head, I'm just like, they're all lying to me. I'm like, there's no way. Mind you, these are people who I trust and love and who are giving up time out of their

lives to work toward a goal that I really want. So deeply, like these are lovely people. It has nothing to do with them and everything to do with me. But yeah, I sit in that all the time. And then what gets you out of it? I just keep going like resilience and also just I want it so bad. And I also like, I want to succeed for myself,

but I also really want to like, prove to everybody who is working with me, or who believes in me, or even like, consume as my music from two seconds of a song to like, listen to everything I put out. Like, I want to do well for those people. So I don't know, maybe like, drive things like that. Fear of failure really motivates me. Love her.

Do all of these characters in your head have names and voices and hers and hers and theirs. My God. They're all, they're all me. They're just all different versions of me. Like the like fear of failure is like me as like a kid. Yeah. I think because I like, I used to set like such obnoxious goals for myself as a child.

Like, and it would keep changing. I would be like, if I'm not Beyonce by the time I'm 18, I have failed. Wow. Insane. It used to be things like that. And when I was really, really little, I'd be like, if I'm not on Disney Channel by the time I am 13, I might as well just end it all.

Like they were just such a extreme, extreme thing. So they're just all different versions of myself that just kind of coexist or lack thereof. They don't have that. And do you find yourself still repeating those audacious goals even now? Oh my God, every day. Yeah. every day.

Yeah. Every day. And let's be clear, there are things that I'm not necessarily proud of. Like, no, I get that, yeah. It's coming across, yeah. I'm gonna be like, okay, fabulous. Because sometimes I'll say something,

and I'll be like, no, no, no, there's not how I feel. That is what I think though. Like this morning, like these are great things that are happening, okay? And like we had like a top 10 like debut album and everybody's like, this is amazing. And in my brain, I was like, I could have done better.

Like all I could think of in my head was like, I could have done better. And I cried and I like beat myself up. And then I like kind of came to and was like, oh no, it was actually like very exciting. And then I would like go back down again. You know that, this is actually very exciting. And then I would go back down again. You know that movie, Taladeg and Knights? Yeah, of course.

That was where he's like, what a great reference. I was thinking, if you ain't first your last, that's all I think of in my brain, which is so silly and so stupid, and I wish I didn't feel that way, but I really do.

I really do. No, hearing you explain it, and I wanna clarify what I was reaffirming with you was hearing you explain it is a I want to clarify what I was reaffirming with you was hearing you explain it is a really good breakdown of how I think so many of us think. Totally. So, hearing you articulate it with so much clarity, I'm listening to going, I know there are times when I think exactly the same way as that, and I know everyone who's listening

is going in their own way, I'm thinking the same. Yes. We all know how de-abilitying that is, because now, number two is the same as 99. Yes. And it makes no difference. And by the way, 99 is great, but 99 is not, you know, we're looking. Exactly. So it just keeps going and it's a perpetual cycle

which can be so paralyzing. Insane. I also would never hold someone else to the standard that I hold myself. And I'm very aware of that. It doesn't change how I feel sadly, but I never in my life would say to somebody if they were like, my debut album, debuted at 5,600, whatever, I'd be like, that is amazing. What an incredible amount of work, blood, sweat, and tears you and so many other people

around you have put into this. And this is an accomplishment that you should celebrate for years and years on end. And believe every single word of that for myself, I'm like, could have done better. I should have done more. I'm just immediately like, what should I have done better? Which is silly. Yeah. But it is a kind of like a human thing, I guess.

Yeah. And I think it's that almost, it's interesting, isn't it? It's like, that's the same mindset that will make you improve and get better, but it's the same mindset that can slow you down and drain you. It is also the life that I have been like praised for by like adult figures in my life since I was very young. That's where it comes from. Oh my God, absolutely, absolutely. Like, I don't blame anyone or think this was a negative thing that somebody put in my brain, but I do always think of it. Like I used to finish basketball games

or any sort of competitive thing that I would do whether it was sports or some showcase for singing. And my first comment from my parents, who I love and who are so supportive. But my first comment from my parents would be like, okay, what could you have done better? Even if I would have like crushed. And so like that is honestly my thought every single time, which in a way is really great. Because I'm always like trying to make myself better and also like hold myself accountable for places that I um slipped up, could have done more, didn't do enough.

But then also it becomes this thing where you just like, beat yourself up for every little like tiny place you could have had a little celebratory moment and congratulations internally that you then don't have. Yeah. It's very weird. It's almost like taking that question. If all of us were first asked,

what did you do great? What could you have done better? Oh, I got to be great. Like it just positions it so differently. Like if someone said to you, what did you do great and you as a kid were like, I think I did this right and I think I got this right and I think I did this right. Now you celebrate. You've got a moment, well, you were just saying earlier, you've had a moment to the moment, well, you were just saying earlier, you've had a moment to celebrate and know yourself and know that you've won and that you're powerful and great. And then it's like, okay, well, what could you have done better?

And now it's like, okay, now I have the tools. The tools to balance. Exactly. Whereas if you don't have the what you did great, you only have the critical judgmental questioning. Oh my God. When I first started doing therapy, I was 20. So this is like maybe three years ago now, three and a half years ago. And I will never forget like they would,

therapists would like ask me, they'd be like, okay, what is something you like like about yourself, or what is something you're proud of that you do? And I could not for years like answer that question. At all. I would just start sobbing every single time. Every single time. I was just like, I cannot compliment myself in any sort of the way. Which sucks. So...

How about now? I can. I can. I do a better job of it now. I do better job. I love the people in my life really, really hard. Very glad. Yeah. That's beautiful.

Yeah. You found it. Yes. Woohoo. Yeah. No, and you've attracted them. Yeah. And they've attracted you.

Yeah. It's a two way thing. It's like they're around you because they love you and believe in you and you're around them because you love them and believe in them. That's that special. And you know, I'm'm gonna definitely miss you on sexualized-of-college girls. Like, are your characters awesome? Me and my wife

watched the show all the time and absolutely loved it. Thank you. What you were just talking about earlier, like, acting was actually a space that made you feel a lot more like anxious and everything. Was that the reason to switch over? Or what was it for you that made you go? You know what? I need to step away. No, I mean, to be honest, like, I inevitably, like, one day I'm like very excited to talk about it. I can't say a ton about it being with the Stagstrike. That being said, acting to me was always just so scary. It was just so scary. It was just something I had no confidence in and thought I was just so, so, so terrible at. It was so scary. It was just so scary. It was just something I had no confidence in and thought I was just so, so, so terrible at.

It was something that came later on in my life, at least to this point. Later on in my life, I was like 18, 19, that I just didn't think I could do. And it became like a really amazing opportunity to like get people's attention, to pay attention to me, to do music, which I didn't feel like I was getting when I was younger, or at least it was harder for me to, but I just really, really wanted attention musically. And I wanted to like get signed and do like the whole thing.

And when acting became a conduit for that, I just was like, OK, I guess I got to do this. Like I would be silly not to do this. Yeah. I still felt so, so incredibly insecure around it. I just was like, I cannot do this. I was like, I'm going to get fired for many jobs

that I have when it comes to acting. So it's something I've developed a love for now later on. Actors are so, so, so thoughtful, so thoughtful, and so, like, careful and articulate, and, like, you really have to, like, read yourself of, like, the judgment, and I struggle so, so hard with that. So, it's just something that I was so insecure about.

That's actually a really powerful lesson, though, and I'm glad you shared that detail, which is something that I was always so insecure about. That's actually a really powerful lesson though. Yeah. And I'm glad you shared that detail because most of us have one goal and we think there's one path to it. Yeah. And we're just walking in that direction. And often that door doesn't open at a certain age, at a certain time, at a certain point in life.

Yeah. But we don't realize that a pivot at that point, doing something that you're even massively uncomfortable with. Oh my God, so uncomfortable. But that's actually helped and been a productive and proactive use of time as an investment in doing what you really want to do, which I love that as a life lesson. That's incredible. That's you. Yeah, no, it's been the best. I've like not only like in a career sense, have I grown so much and learned so much and been able to work with really incredible people I've also like met like my best friends in the whole wide world like my best friend in the planet

I met on TV show Alia and you know, so it's like it's it's given me a Lot and it's been like a really, really big catalyst for my music career. And that is not at all lost on me. That's fantastic. What's been your most difficult insecurity to channel in music? Like what's been the hardest thing to actually communicate and express? And why do you think that is? It's interesting.

I feel like I express most of my insecurities and things that I think pretty well and it's pretty open like. Absolutely, no, I think you do. That's what I do. Totally, totally. But even though I do, I still constantly feel like I'm so not communicating anything well, anything at all, even though I know I do that, you know? Like that is the entire basis of like my like songwriting is like exactly how I feel and like letting that go.

Again, whether it be something I'm like proud of this thought and opinion I have or whether it's something that I'm not proud of. But at the end of the day, that is how I feel and that is my art and that is the reason where I put it out there, whatever. I still judge every inch of it so harshly. I cannot let it go.

I wrote a bunch of songs on my album and I'm really proud of the things that I said and proud of the place that it comes from. Then I'll panic about having written it and be like, oh my god, I shouldn't have said that. That was so stupid. Like, yeah, is this like sending the wrong message or something or am I, you know, going against everything? I believe in. And then I'm like, no, that is actually just like how I felt

in that moment. And like, not everything I say is like Bible and like how you should live your life. Please God don't. But like, I don't know. I communicate it all. And I'm proud if I do, but I don't let. I communicate at all, and I'm proud if I do, but I don't let that just be.

Like, that just never exists. So I can over communicate as much as humanly possible, and still be incredibly insecure about what I'm saying, or like how it is received. Absolutely. I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there. And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas

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what anxiety feels like. Yeah. A lot of the time when people talk about anxiety, it sounds like here, or it sounds like here, like they trust this type, or they feel uncomfortable. Sure. But when you're here, you speak about it from here, which really helps because it's kind of like making sense.

Yeah. There was one lyric that stood out that I wanted to share with you. Yeah. I'll make it through the winter if it kills me, I can make it faster if I hurry. Alangel in the snow until I'm worthy, but if it kills me, I tried if it kills me. And when I was, there was a couple of lines in there that I wanted to kind of break

down with you if that's okay. Yeah, no, please. So one was I'll make it through the winter if it kills me. And I was like, when do you feel like you're most in winter? Like when does it feel the coldest? In the moments of me getting so riled up and so panicked and freaked out about my career, my family, being a good friend. Like when I'm just like really, really, really, really, really, I don't know, just coming for myself to be honest, I never feel like I'm gonna like stop. Like I just always feel resilient. In a stick way, honestly, in a way that has really, really, really helped me, but it's crazy.

Sometimes I think about it and I'm very confused. Like I genuinely don't know where it comes from or like what it is, but like I could be having the worst day of my life. And I would still be like, yeah, this sucks. And like this is the worst day of my life. And I would still be like, yeah, this sucks. And like, this is the worst day of my life. And I feel like a terrible person. And I feel like I've done something really, really horrible. And I'm still not going to stop what I'm doing. Not that behavior, I guess. I'm still not going to stop like making music or doing the thing that I love. And

it's silly now in retrospect, because I get like your kids, you say dumb things. But like I would like post-e singing videos online when I was in high school. And like all these girls would like go on Twitter and like say how terrible of a singer I was and how I was just so silly and I looked stupid. And I remember that so, so well. And I remember really hurting my feelings.

But at the same time, I still kept posting videos. It wasn't like it didn't hurt my feelings, but I was like, you're not going to stop me from doing the thing that I love to do. And then I want to do. So winter is always, but winter is resilient. And so I was as a whole full of resilience. Absolutely. What makes you feel worthy now? I feel I feel worthy when the people around me are happy, which I guess is something inherently that's like, oh, that sucks. Like I should feel worthy when I feel good about myself. But I really do at this point in my life, I feel I feel

worthy when people around me are happy and proud of me. If I feel like the people around me are happy and proud of me and they're okay, then I feel I feel worthy when people around me are happy and proud of me. If I feel like the people around me are happy and proud of me and they're okay, then I feel okay. And that goes for like, are like kind of like community and like fandom too. Like if they like things and they feel good, then I feel good. And if they don't, then I don't feel good, which sucks. I know that's something I have to inevitably work on and find some sort of equilibrium to like be balanced and stuff, but right now it's really just like, it sucks, but it's when other people are proud of me, then I am proud of myself. I don't do well finding that internally, which is not ideal. Yeah. But it is like what it is right now.

Yeah, yeah. And starting from where you are is the only thing you can do. Yeah. Being honest about that and knowing where it's at. Absolutely. And it's interesting both times, even earlier when we were like, you know, what are you proud that you have around you? You were like, yeah, the people.

And even now it's like the people. It's like, yeah, it's like, yeah. That way it really does go like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And there's something beautiful in that. It's the idea that what makes you worthy is that those people choose to be in your life. Because they see you as worthy.

Absolutely. And it's like, if you can just connect that job, like it's like that, but it takes a while. It takes a while for all of us. We've all been conditioned whether it's everyone around me matters, everyone around me doesn't matter. Like whichever way we are, we're all at some end of that spectrum. Yes.

One of the experiences in your life that you think have made you become resilient. Like when did you start to look at your life, though? I've been through a lot of tough stuff. Yeah. And that's built of resilience. What were some of those events or what was a moment that you felt made you resilient. Yeah. And that's about resilience. What were some of those events or what was a moment that you felt made you resilient? Yeah. I said, whenever I started to like again like compliment or like

like pat myself on the back in any sense of the word, I get so like my immediate like response to be frank was to be like, well, I've had it very easy and I'm good and don't be wrong. I haven't many, many ways, but I think that I feel like my resilience comes from like two different things. I like things that I actually go through, be things that like how I speak to myself. I'm very resilient when it comes to how I speak to myself. Like if I had the inner monologue that I have that was from another human being, oh my gosh, like that would suck. That would suck, but for whatever reason,

I keep pushing through and keep going, and that doesn't really change that much, right, keep going. Well, like situations like for instance, like so snow angel, which was like the single of this album, and it's not like the album title and everything, is something that I've like talked about for months, really just being like, okay, this is a situation that happened to me, and this is something that I'll eventually talk about, but like I want you to like have the song,

sit with the song, interpret it in the way that you need and feel like it can like sit on you so that you have it. Because like the situation of that song, hey, it's something that I pray and doesn't, not something legit that everybody can like relate to in the sense that I went through it, which I'm very glad about. But like, that was a huge moment of resilience for me. And even writing the song, I feel like was resilience. And then in a way holding back from then talking about it for a couple months was

resilience. So it shows up in my life in a lot of different ways. But for that specifically, it was January, maybe late January, early February of 2022. And I had just gone through like a breakup. And it was really tough. And it was like the first time I had ever been really in love with someone and then experienced like a breakup. And I had always, I had been in relationship, back to back for like five years. So my like later teen years were all that.

And so at this point, I'm 22. And I started like having like freedom in my life, kind of for the first time. And I was living here in LA and I was like hanging out in a new group of people. And they were like, they were partiers and they like really sent it, really sent it. I like had heard from like my family

and like my friends around me that like, this isn't really like a good group. We don't think for you. And that's not to say that these are bad people because I don't believe that. I think that people can do bad things and still be good people sometimes. A couple of them. But I was in this group of friends and we were just like sending it. And it was the first time I live where I wasn't working. I was fresh out of this relationship.

I was just going there. And I think that I had always had to like really like nail myself to the ground. And I had always been just so incredibly nervous. And for the first time, I just like didn't. And I like really let my judgment go when it came to the people that were around me. And we were all out. And it was just situation after situation where they were just not trustworthy. And then like the next thing you knew, I was face up, laying down on a bathroom stall in a hotel bar, just waking up, like five in the morning,

completely alone. And I woke up and I was like, I was just so confused. And I had blood on my pants and I was really just so caught off guard. And I had my phone and my purse, and I looked down and I was completely alone so caught off guard. And I had my phone and my purse, and I looked down and I was completely alone in a bathroom stall. And I looked at my phone and it was like five in the morning,

I was like, what happened? I was like, I was like a party with my friends. And I had missed two texts from two people that I was with at like 10.30 the night before, which was like seven hours had gone by. That was like, hey, I guess you laughed. Like, well, you know, see you when we see you. And mind you, I was dating somebody in the group

at that time. And so I didn't go to this place alone. And I had like a boyfriend or a situation or whatever. Somebody that I was at least with, that just was nowhere to be found. And so I still have no idea what happened, no clue what happened, but I was drugged and just like missing for like seven hours.

And I stopped being friends with those people and stopped doing as much partying as I was and told my parents, told some of my friends and just kind of explained it in a really matter of fact way. They were all very concerned and I didn't really even understand what was happening because again, I didn't recall anything that had happened. Then a couple of months later,

we really delve into it. I kind of started to like have to like deal with everything that happened. And we're just crying and so upset and very confused. And then resentful as I was friends that I was with. But all that to say, then like a year later, we wrote Snowy and Joel, and I had been saying to Alexander who I did this whole album with,

like I really wanna write a song about this. I'd recount the situation so many times. And after the tense time of telling a group of people that you know through maybe just music sessions that you were drugged, and you have no idea what happened, and you were kind of into drugs at one point, but you don't really want to talk about it, but you do want to want to talk about it.

You do want to write a song about it. And then just being like, then you kind of stop wanting to write that song. So I was like, okay, I guess I just won't write anything about this. And then eventually Alexander came back to me and was like, I really want to write that song that you were talking about. And I think you and I should just do it together. And I was like, okay. And then we started writing it.

And it was just the two of us. And frankly, the whole time we were writing it, I felt nothing, nothing. Like I was explaining all this stuff. And I was like, yeah. And you can like reference like the snow as whatever you want to reference it as and things like that. And I felt nothing at all. Until we like had recorded the song,

the whole thing was done. And I played it for a bunch of my friends and my manager. And everybody was like, this is insane. But for me, that whole year of my life was inherent resilience. Because not only was I like fighting through an experience, I have no idea what happened to me. Not only was I like fighting through an experience, I have no idea what happened to me. Lost friends, felt like I couldn't go out with anybody and trust anybody. And then was like trying to explain the situation in a way that I understood it,

but I didn't really understand it. And then wanted to write a song about it and wanted to write an album about it, but was also afraid to be judged for having something like that happen to me. But it's also like, what did happen? So it was a whole thing. Up until we decided to like name the album Snow Angel and have that beat the song, that

to me was all resilience, because I was just like kind of cold face, like fighting through everything. And I still don't really know how I feel about it. I just know that I feel weird and very resilient. Hmm. I got to stay in an Airbnb on one of my recent travels and it definitely added a whole new layer to my travel experience. I got to explore the neighborhood and I tried the amazing restaurants.

It really made me live like a local during my trip. Maybe you've stayed in an Airbnb before and thought to yourself, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe you've stayed in an Airbnb before and thought to yourself, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb. It could be as simple as starting with a spare room, or your whole place when you're away. You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even knowing.

Maybe you have an extra bedroom or in-law unit where friends and family come to stay with you. You could Airbnb and make some extra cash while it sits empty. Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca forward slash host. Hi, I'm Ellie Kemper. And I'm Scott Eckert. And we're here to talk to you about the things we love on our new podcast, Born to Love.

Each week we'll have a guest join us to talk about something, anything in the world that they love. And of course you and I also we get to talk about the things that we love, so it's a love fest of sorts. Total love fest and to give you guys some background. We met in our college improv troupe, we were hilarious. And here's a fun little fact Ellie, when you you were filming the movie, Bridesmaids, you were an actual Bridesmaid in my wedding.

I was at the same time. I can tell you about something I loved this week's copy. Oh, lay it on me. FOME ROLERS! For my own mind, you're not talking pool noodle. Oh my gosh! No, thank you for clarifying. Listen to Born to Love with Ellie Kemper in Scott Eckert, a new podcast from Will Ferrell's

Big Money Players Network on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Leverand Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of the Leverand Cox Show. You may remember my work winning first season? I've been pretty busy, but there's always time to talk to incredible guests about important things.

People like me have been screaming for years, we gotta watch the Supreme Court, what they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil, they will take things away, and I can only hope that dobs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, you and I both know what it took

to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always measurable,

is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the LeBernCock Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. For sure. For sure. Have you ever been able to piece anything together from the night or not at all, just nothing? That must be so... That's almost like so disconnecting from yourself. Very weird.

Very weird. Yeah, I know I have no idea. And I just stopped talking to the group people. I was like, I don't want to know what you know or don't or what you claim to know or don't know. I just wanted to let it go. Yeah. What made you trust them in the first place that you now look back as a red flag and go,

I should have been aware? I really wanted to have fun. I really wanted to have fun. I had just gone through this breakup and I had just changed a lot of my life and I had just become visible in like a different way in the career thing. And I just wanted to like party and have a good time. I didn't go to college and I didn't have that experience

to like let loose and just like kill. And these were people that I saw were really partying too much. Do a point. And I just, I wanted to have fun. And I wanted people who knew none of my friends, who knew nothing about my life, who didn't know my ex, who didn't know two exes ago, who knew nothing about me. And I was just like fresh new into the group.

I don't know, it was just like, it was exciting to have a group of people that just did not care about anything else other than partying. Because I cared so much about everything else. I wanted that level of just like escape and not dealing with it. And then I just escaped too far. Yeah.

How did they react when you kind of started to disconnect? To be honest, it wasn't a big deal. It was nothing to them to lose a friendship like that. It wasn't a big deal to them. And that's, you know, whatever, I guess, the only time that I ever heard, like, anything was like when I started to like really release music and started getting more attention for it, somebody was like, hey, you know, I would love to talk to you about like the time, da da da da da da da, and I'm just like, no, you don't.

No, you don't. No, you don't. And I feel like that person obviously, I mean, you don't just disappear. Like randomly, you just don't. As far as I'm concerned, I could be way wrong in silly for thinking that but Yeah, it wasn't a big deal to them

Hmm. It was just nothing and I've I've made peace with it to just be like okay If that is how you react to something like that happening to me then you don't value my life friendship and safety, in the way that I would value yours. So it's best we just part ways and then we just never really talked again. That's hard as well to like, yeah. Yeah, how does that feel to you now?

I trust people really fast. And then when I don't trust someone, I don't trust them. And I think it's very jarring for people around me sometimes, but I'm good at letting go. Very good at letting go. And I don't know if that's something that I'm really good at because I've been burned one too many times. I mean, I would rather be like with my group of friends now

and like, not be at risk to like be left alone and hurt and have whatever happened happen, then like be with those people. Yeah. I think I'm doing like pretty good in my life where I don't really feel like I need that. And also the idea of like wanting to party and have fun is not a bad thing.

Yeah. But it's like, you know, it's like, it's almost like wanting to have a great time and you're intention is like, hey, I've got through this breakup, I want to party, I want to have fun. That doesn't seem like a terrible thing. No. And I was worried about how my friends and people who were immediate in my life would view me for then having all this have happened

to be like, yeah, okay, so I was out with the script of people, X, Y, and Z happened, whatever. I was very scared about how that would go. How did they respond? They were, at the time they were much more worried than I was aware of what was happening because I really just brushed it off. And honestly, I think I was just in like kind of like a fight or flight thing.

Yeah. Just like, okay, well this happens, it's got to move on. To be honest, the next weekend I went to Coachella. Like, I was just like, okay, whatever. My friends were very concerned and were really weirded out and where I guess talking like amongst each other more so than to me, but we're really protective. Did you feel like you had to move on fast in order so that people didn't take it too seriously because you wanted them to be okay with it and you didn't allow yourself to feel it?

Yeah, I also really didn't want to know what happened. I didn't want to find out what happened. And still, yeah. And in a way, I kind of do because I also am like And in a way, I kind of do because I also am like Ventral to be honest and I like in a way one and no like who let what I you know But also I was just like okay move on like I don't want anybody to see me sweat in that way Because then that would be admitting that something bad actually did happen to me. And I've never had anything specifically like that happen to me before. And I thought it was a very, like a long shot of an idea. Like that's something you hear about happening to like girls and people out who like get drugged and things like that.

And that's not ever something that would happen to me. So I just, I wanted to move past it quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. something that would happen to me. So I just I wanted to move past it quickly. Yeah, I said denial as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. I was that changed your way of now having fun and being able to go out and being able to trust. Like how is that impacted? I have better friends now. Talk about that group.

Yeah, I'm very, I'm very lucky. I have good people in my life. I also am really, I think I'm a more honest version of myself. Like if I don't trust someone, they will know. And odds are they won't really be around me. But also like I used to want everybody to be my friend so badly and don't get me wrong, I still kind of do. But I like, I wanted everyone's approval in the worst way when it came to a friend group. I don't necessarily feel like that anymore. I feel like I got taken advantage of obviously a lot

in many ways, but now I don't really feel like that happens to me as much. Yeah, it's almost like how far are we willing to go away from ourselves to get someone else's approval? Oh my God, I would have ran to the ends of the earth. Yeah. Once you made that song, as you were saying, you were trying to put it in and you were trying to get your team finally, Alexander, you said, yeah, finally, like, you know, understood and was listening. How did it then feel to put that out there in the world? Then obviously, you've talked about

your family, your friends, and now for everyone to hear it, how did that feel? It was honestly weird for the first couple of months because I was like, I... what I wanted was for the song to live on its own and have its own kind of existence without my experience attached to it, so that people could take it in in a way that they weren't listening to the song and feel like pity for me in a way. I wanted everybody to have their own experience with it.

Because again, this is a very specific song. I also, however, would find myself like getting so frustrated, like wanting to talk about it and just like, blurred it out before I was fully like, not ready to, but before I was ready to actually make this, like, okay, this is a thing, now the album is out. It was like a weird back and forth,

because also I'm still very angry from the situation. As much as I wanna move past it and push past, it would, it would just float between like, I really like nobody knowing what this is about. And also like, I want revenge. Like, you know what I mean? And revenge for me is just like talking about it, I guess. But yeah, it went, it went both ways. I am, however, really, really, really glad that people got to sit with it and take their kind of experiences with it. But it was really interesting seeing people's interpretations of the song.

Because somebody was like, oh my god, yeah, when it's cold outside, it's brutal. And I was like, yeah, girl. Like, that is amazing. You feel that way. I'm like, aren't really a subjective. Yeah, it was weird for a minute. It was so weird. Have you ever had people reach out to you

and tell you about their experiences of similar things happening or? Nobody has, and not that I've seen anything, because I don't even feel like it's really suggested in credit in the song, but unless you like no, you don't know. Yeah, you won't know. But I have, however, had a couple people

talk to me about their own experience with, because these are people who have been through some sort of drug or alcohol related thing, or what have you. And been like, hey, look, I really, really like this song for my own reason. And I've been in and out of XYZ situation, and this has been really helpful for me. And there have been a couple of times

where like obviously I haven't like said anything, but like you know when you're talking to somebody and you're like not saying exactly what it is, but like you can kind of both tell in each other's eyes that there's like something much deeper happening than what you're both saying. It's that kind of like camaraderie. And like, I see you without like saying it.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, that's, which has been really comforting. It's sad that you can connect on our understanding each other. Absolutely. But at least you feel understood and held in that moment. Totally. Thank you for sharing that with us. I mean, it's like, it's just, oh yeah.

It's just, I mean, I think that whenever we go through things, go through things where we don't have control and we don't have consciousness even, and what to speak of control, it's so disconnecting from the self because you were disconnected from a firm, a period of time from yourself. What have been the things today that you feel connect you to yourself? What are the things that you love to do that make you kind of, you know, smile and love and, you know, bring joy to you? I am, I love talking to people. I love to, I'm such a like extroverted introvert. I really like, I relating is my favorite thing in the whole world. And whether it's like actually relating or having someone else or myself feel understood,

even if it's not necessarily relating, I love that. I love writing songs. Writing songs is my greatest weapon in this life. It's my favorite thing in the whole wide world. And I also, honestly, the thing I love most in my life right now is like, I love washing my little brother grow up. That's kind of like a complete segue, but he's like, he's only a couple of years younger than me, but he's like totally my baby. And so I'm like really trying to like cherish watching him like grow up.

So yeah, again, it's like all the like people connections. I'm like, I love the people in my life very much. Yeah. Yeah. My, my young the people in my life very much. Yeah. My young sister's like five years younger than me. And so I remember like when she was born, I remember holding her. And she's getting married in like a month. And she's 30 years old, 31.

And it's just like such a, you know, I feel the same way like she's like my baby and my baby is getting married. Like it's a crazy feeling. It's insane. Were you like an emotionally, that's kind of an invasive question, I guess, but were you like an emotionally available older sibling?

So older sibling. I have a really good relationship with my sister and like she sees me that way as well. Okay, great. So yeah, definitely I would say I was. Good. And I would say that as she got older though, I kind of intentionally, I wouldn't say distance myself,

but I intentionally gave her space to build up those skills herself. And so I started, I'm not doing that with my brother. Well, you still have time. I'm not doing it. I like Charles, how do you feel about everything? Yeah. And that's actually very smart.

Yeah, I just realized over time where it was like, I didn't want her to wake up one day if I wasn't around or whatever it was, or even right now I live across the world. The idea that she didn't have the tools and skills herself. And I was really trying to help her build those tools and skills herself. That's cool. And I'm really proud that she's been able to do that. And it's taken years of doing that. Sure. But it's almost like I wish. It's almost like when you first start writing a bike, you have the stabilizers and your parent push the bike.

And then your parents stop holding on to the bike and you just have to stabilize and maybe fall off. And then you put the stabilizer and then they get taken off. But it isn't like, your parent pushed in you on a bike like when you're 21 years old. And so I feel like with mentorship, with coaching, with anyone that I work with, like the goals always,

like how do they develop the tools themselves? How does it's cool? Well, what kind of tools do you think you're wanting to pass on? Or what are the lessons that, oh my God. Because there's only a two-year gap. So, you're like accelerating your learning.

Oh my God, I know. I like, I really want, my brother is so much like me in my like worst and best ways. I just want him to like not beat himself up so much like me in my worst and best ways. I just want him to not beat himself up so much. I went through so, granted, I'm telling you that, I still absolutely do. I don't, however, to the extent that I used to. I used to beat myself up into bad, bad places.

It was tough. Like, again, I couldn't sit with myself. I couldn't say something that I was proud of because every thought I had would be met with something else I didn't do. And I really wanted that for him, really, really badly because I don't want anybody to beat themselves up the way that I beat myself off. Jesus Christ. It was exhausting. I can tell you firsthand. It's very exhausting. Nobody else really had to go through that. I don't think. What age was that? Do you think you were like the harshest credit? Oh my God. I mean, I feel like it honestly just started. To be honest, when I started doing music and when I got signed, like in June

of 2022, my life changed a ton, a ton. Because also I was working in an environment with a bunch of people who were choosing to be there and choosing to show up for me and choosing to help support and foster the thing that I wanted so badly. And I felt like I had big support. Like I felt like I had big support. Like I felt like I had big guns behind me,

which was a huge, huge boost of confidence. And also made me want to work really hard to prove to everybody that believed in me and was investing time and money. Let's be clear into me that I was worth it. And I don't know. I just felt really like uplifted. And I hadn't really felt that in a lot of like

working situations before. I felt like everybody actually really cared what I had to say for the first time and I had never felt that, specifically in work, never. So it was really nice to have that. Well, yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? It's like we're constantly looking again

for that external just kind of always. Oh my God. Always. Just make me feel yeah, it's always. It's hard and it's always. It's so programmed that way. I write music for a living. Like I make songs for a living for people to listen to. Yeah.

Like you know what I mean? Like in a way that's inherently that and that's not to say that I don't do it for myself at all. I absolutely do but like, you know, I go to a concert to perform not for people to not have fun and not enjoy it. I got to stay in an Airbnb on one of my recent travels and it definitely added a whole new layer to my travel experience. I got to explore the neighborhood and I tried the amazing restaurants. It really made me live like a local during my trip.

Maybe you've stayed in an Airbnb before and thought to yourself, this actually seems pretty doable. Maybe my place could be an Airbnb. It could be as simple as starting with a spare room, or your whole place when you're away. You could be sitting on an Airbnb and not even knowing. Maybe you have an extra bedroom or in-law unit where friends and family come to stay with you. You could Airbnb and make some extra cash while it sits empty. Whether you could use extra money to cover some bills or for something a little more fun, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca forward slash host.

Do you lay awake scrolling at bedtime or wake in the middle of the night and struggle to fall back to sleep? Start sleeping better tonight. I'm Catherine Nikolai, and my podcast, Nothing Much Happens, Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep, has helped millions of people to get consistent, deep sleep. I tell family-friendly bedtime stories that train you to drift off and return to sleep quickly. And I use a few sleep-inducing techniques along the way that have many users asleep within the first three minutes.

I hear from listeners every day who have suffered for years with insomnia, anxiety at night time, and just plain old busy brain, who are now getting a full night sleep every night. I call on my 20 years of experience as a yoga and meditation teacher to create a soft landing place where you can feel safe and relaxed and get excellent sleep. Listen to nothing much happens bedtime stories to help you sleep with Catherine Nikolai on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you think that when you were, obviously, you didn't, you didn't go to college because you were trying to, you know, get into the industry. You were just saying that we were young.

You wanted to, you know, figure out the Disney thing or figure out this thing or whatever it may be. Yes, absolutely. Like, imagine you were sitting with 10-year-old Renee right now. What does she need to hear? I, similar to have lived with a lot of years of beating myself up, I used to just live with this like inherently guilt

and regret, like a cloud over me, like just in a big way. And I used to think that like, oh, I would tell my younger self to do like this and this and this and this better, like this and this and this and this, or did it, I am now like really deciding to like not regret any of it.

That's not to say that I don't wanna hold myself accountable for things that I've done that aren't great or for things that I inevitably will do that are not good, or that, you know, don't serve myself or other people. That's a separate conversation. This is more about, I'm really so incredibly proud of, like, such a lively, spunky monstrous little like 10-year-old girl who is so fearless, so fearless. Like, I was a rambunctious kid. I was crazy. I was inviting everybody in the neighborhood to my concerts on the fireplace I was forcing people to come and listen to me saying I was Screaming for people to pay attention to me and I'm really really glad that I did that and I why would just say like do everything How you feel like you're going to and when you mess mess up, just listen to yourself that you've messed up.

I would honestly just say, like, everything she did was great. Happy to be here in, you know, failures and in wins. You've talked about being so self-aware and you can hear it when you're, you know, when I'm talking to you today, I'm like, there's, there's such an awareness of who you are. There's such an awareness of who you are, there's such an awareness of who you are, what you're feeling at this stage in your life. What are you hoping to unlearn for the future

and learn for the future? If there was one thing you had to unlearn that you've developed and if there was one thing you had to learn, what would you say they are? I would say something that I would like to learn is how to like, I'm so hyper aware of when I do this in situations and I try so hard not to, whenever someone is talking about something that they've experienced with somebody else,

like if somebody has hurt their feelings, right? Like if my best friend is talking to me about someone who has hurt them or harmed them or done them wrong in the smallest or biggest sense of the word, all I can think in my brain is like when have I done that in my life and just start like spiraling down this like I remember when I did that to someone so I'm like I need to call this person and be like I am so sorry for what I put you through when we're like four. Like you know what I mean? And I really would like to not center myself in what somebody else is talking about. And it's not, at least it's not consciously a selfish thing. Like I'm not actively trying to make my friends grievance

about myself. Totally, it's just not about you. But I do, and I hate it. Because then I'm also like, oh my god, now I'm not as present with like my friend who's being so sweet and vulnerable with me. And now I'm doing a disservice to her by not, you know, listening to her fully and being so hyperconscious of like how I've acted or how I could have possibly showed up that way.

I really want to unlearn that. I'm trying so hard not to do that. I hate when I do that. Granted, if I just keep beating myself up for it, then I'm going to do it for the rest of my life and then I'm never going to like give myself grace for it. Something that I want to, I guess that's kind of learning it and I'm learning. Another thing that I wanna learn and learn I need a little more internal patience. I need internal patience. I need internal patience and external judgment.

Really quick. I really need a lot of internal patience. I also need to not give people who have hurt me or done me wrong as much slack. Like it's okay to like say that like, no thank you. I'm good at like being done when I'm done, but it takes me a second. You know, like I think like with that group of friends, like I should have taken maybe two things that happened

before I ended up like face up before that. Yeah, it doesn't need to get to that extreme. Correct, correct. Those are great answers. Those are great answers. How have you kind of navigated the, you know, again, we're talking about change. You've talked about before, like,

I think you were struggling with the eating disorder when you were 10. You've talked to obviously about how you've had, you know, the gray area of your sexuality, like figuring that out. Like how have you got comfortable navigating like the gray? When it comes to like eating disorders, I think at least, and this is not necessarily

everyone else's opinion, but how I perceive it myself is eating disorders are something that you are always going to deal with and always going to have, right? And this is not to compare it to alcoholism because it is in nowhere the same or different or whatever. It's not a comparison, but it is to say that like with alcohol, you can decide to put yourself in situations where there is going to be alcohol there or not, or like you are going to decide whether to drink or not, you are never going

to decide whether you can eat or not. You have to. You have to. And again, that is not to like put down or make little of alcoholism or any sort of struggle like that. My dad has been sober my whole life, but is an alcoholic and this is something we talk about constantly and try to better understand each other. It's hard with a needing disorder. That is just constantly going to be around you. You have to eat

to survive. So that's a constant gray area for me. I feel like I talk about it every day. So it's always just like, how did I do with it today always just like how did I do with it today? Or how am I going to do with it tomorrow? It's like living in a gray area, which is really frustrating because I think to myself a lot like I would love for this to be gone. But it is just not something that I'm never going to deal with. If I want to continue to be alive, I'm going to be eating and I'm going gonna have food around me and that's gonna make me feel crazy some days and out of control and insecure and really proud of myself and in full control other days. So there's a gray area with that constantly

When it comes to like sexuality That's a whole other gray area that like at least for me I over the last like That's a whole other gray area that like at least for me, I over the last like six or seven months have become less gray at least right now, but I think this is gonna sound so silly, but I try too. And granted, this is also very easy for me to say because I am a queer person who is still at the end of the day,

a white woman and is cisgender, and I also am bisexual, so I'm going to be in heteronormative relationships, inevitably just based off of being bisexual, potentially. I think for me, it is easy to say, but I try to view the gray area or times when I'm struggling for a label, if I don't feel like, I'll go through conversations with my girlfriend constantly

if I'll be actually feel incredibly not bisexual right now. And it's silly, but there are things we talk about all the time, both of us with each other. And I'm just gonna try to view it as a little pink area. It's all good, it's all cool, it's pink, it's good. It's good, whatever it is. Like if I, one day feel like this label or whatever

or lack thereof does not suit me, then that's great and that does not suit me. And I'm very fortunate to be able to make that decision and have that not affect my life in an incredibly massive way. A lot of other people are not, but I view it as a little pink area. It's just good. I'm trying not to be so angry with myself about it. I struggled to like want a rhyme and a reason and a label and a season to make sense every single day. And I'm just not there.

And I don't think a lot of people are. So I think it's fine. Like straight people, at least as far as I'm concerned, don't wake up every day. And I'm like, oh my God, what level of straight am I today? And then if you are one of those people, you're likely queer. So, you know, we're so hard-wired to be like, you have to choose an answer.

Oh yeah. Whether it was school, whether it was parents, it was like, there was always one right answer, you had to figure it out, there were no other options. Absolutely. There was no gray. You either write or wrong. Yes. And so I think we still live in the right or wrong.

And so it's really hard to be like, well, if I don't have the right answer, I must have the wrong answer. But I know this isn't wrong because it's how I feel. So then how do I make it right? Absolutely. It's so confusing. And so I love the pink. I love the pink. I love the pink. wrong because it's how I feel. So then how do I make it right? Yes. It's so confusing. And so I love the pink. I love the pink.

Yeah, that's great. This is just a little pink area. Like I'm just chilling in the pink. Thanks. I love it. Renee, you've been so vulnerable, so gracious, so kind with your time today. Thank you.

I'm so grateful to get to know you today. And thank you for letting us into your mind. You know, I really feel when I was sitting with you today, I was like, you really just kind of opened up your mind and let us walk in. And I appreciate that because it's hard to do that. And I felt like you opened up some cupboards and some drawers.

But Renee, we end every on purpose episode with a fast five. These final five have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay. I may ask you to expand and I'll let you know. All right. So, Renee, these are your final five or fast five question one. What is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Integrity over everything. Hmm. Okay. Great. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? I'll just stop trying to care. Hmm.

My God. I just see how that all the time goes. My God. Yeah, you are gonna care. I like, are you kidding me? No, I care more because I care about not caring. It's ridiculous. Oh, God, that's a good one. We've never had that on the show before, I like that.

All right, question number three. What's the part of yourself that you're most deeply trying to love? This is very two things for me. First and foremost, my mistakes, things that I've done that I don't agree with, the things that I've done that I'm not proud of. I'm trying to like make peace with them, I guess, is a better word and do better from them.

And second, like honestly, is somebody like with incredible, incredible, you know, lengths of difficulty of eating disorders, like my like body and like the like skin that I like live in and like my like vessel that I just like operate in. Very, very hard for me. So hard for me. Thank you. Okay, question number four. What's something that you think people value, but you don't really value. Keeping it cool all the time. Oh, interesting.

I'm very pro and this is just who I am. I guess maybe how I was raised or how I work, I'm not sure. I love to just let your emotions get the best of themselves sometimes. I think that's really important, at least it is for me. I'm very, very anti-keep it in and deal with it and like try to regulate your emotions. I think that like if you need them to be big in a way, let them be big in a way that feels

like safe and careful for like yourself and the people you're around. Because if not, then that's just so stupid. I was I was shamed for so many years. This is not a short answer. I was shamed for so many years in my life for being so hyper-emotional and crying so much and like getting angry so fast. And that is something I just, I don't value the like,

being quiet and like the controlling your emotions and keeping things at bay. I value like being very true to how you feel, whether that's a good feeling or not. That's powerful. Yeah. And how have you found a way of doing that in a way that you said to someone you're like,

to be mindful of like, you didn't say mindful, but you said to be aware of how it affects yourself and people you love, like, how do you kind of get that? Because sometimes like you said, an emotion can be so big and so real and so visceral, but then how do you kind of get that? Because sometimes, like you said, an emotion can be so big and so real and so visceral. But then how do you kind of, how have you found a way to do that? Or at least how are you trying to find a way to do that?

I have in beating myself up less, I'm not like a physical danger to myself, which is great, because I used to like get really, really, really angry. And like, I would like, you know, so many people do, I don't know like what it is or what it isn't. My dad and I have talked about this at length, because he said he did the same thing as I did as a kid. But like, I would either like bang my head against the wall or like, like hit my arms or things like that, or like, tweak out or freak out. And the more I've stopped

like beating myself up for it and the more I've just been like, oh these are just things that I feel and I feel in a really big way and the more I'm around people who allow me to feel in a big way, the less I hurt myself, the less I like feel the need to like bang my hat against all, I feel like if I'm around somebody who's like, oh, this is upsetting you, that's okay, that's that upset you. I don't even get to that point. So for me, it's about the company I keep and the things that people are saying to me.

That being said, I also know that certain people in my life, my mom, for instance, is the greatest. My mom does not like to see me incredibly upset all the time. And that's not to say she can't deal with me upset. But that is to say that I'm an adult and I know that I don't want to put my mother through turmoil every day by calling her and telling her the 10 things that upset me because she lives 3,000 miles away from me and will panic. You know, so it's like it's about going to the right people. And I go to her of course, but like,

not in a way that is gonna upset her or hurt her day because I, you know, she's my mama. But yeah. Yeah, I think the company you keep is important. Fifth and final question. Okay. If you could create, we ask this to every single guest who's ever been on. If you could create one Lord that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? What's the Lord? A Lord.

What is that? A Lord. Oh, Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord. My accent, yeah, I was like, a Lord. What is the Lord? No, like, folklore, no, no, no, Lord, Lord. That is the right Lord. A Lord.

A lot. No, no, no, say Lord. I like it. A Lord. What is one law or lore? But I would like everybody to follow. I grew up in North Carolina. I grew up in the South. I would love a lot where everybody was just like not so hateful. Personally, I would love that. The town that I grew up in, like you drive right out of the neighborhood and that's like a dangerous place

for like friends of mine to be in. I would love if we just like maybe weren't like, incredibly hateful. That's a good little. Renee Rape, everyone, snow angel. I'm so grateful to have you time and energy and everyone's gonna be streaming more and more. And I can't wait to have you back on years from now and to learn more about what you've

unlearned, what you've learned, what you've gained, wisdom along the way. I'm dear, but your brother too. Oh my god, he's cute. Thanks. I love it, Renee. Thank you so much. And everyone's been listening or watching. Make sure that you tag Renee and I with the things that stood out to you, the words that

came from her that meant something to you. Maybe you've had similar experiences or things you've been through that. You wanna share backwards, please do tag both of us across TikTok, Instagram, and across any social media platform that you're using to make sure that we see it. Renee, thank you so much again. Thank you.

You're the sweetest. Oh my God, such a sweetheart. Such a pleasure, thank you. Appreciate it. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out. My therapist told me to stand in the mirror naked for five minutes. It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch

marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three when I did it, I was like, you know what what? I thought it was a cute. Does your brain keep you up at bedtime? I'm Catherine Nicholi, and my podcast Nothing Much Happens, Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep, has helped millions of people to get consistent, deep sleep. My stories are family-friendly, they celebrate everyday pleasures and train you over time to fall asleep faster with less waking in the night. Start sleeping better tonight. Listen to nothing much happens bedtime stories to help you sleep with Katherine Nicolai on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.