On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Rob Dial: How to Break the Cycle of Procrastination & 3 Ways to Change Your Repeated Thoughts

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Why do we always put things off until the last minute? How can we stop the habit of procrastinating? Today, let's welcome Rob Dial, host of the Mindset Mentor Podcast and author of "Level Up." Jay and Rob reminisce about their seven-year friendship, sharing how their mutual interests in mindset and Eastern spirituality brought them together.  The conversation delves into the role of fear in holding people back, with Rob distinguishing between primal fears (like pain and death) and intellectual fears (like failure and rejection). He offers strategies to overcome these fears by focusing on positive outcomes instead of negative possibilities. They also explore the topic of procrastination, with Rob emphasizing the importance of having a strong "why" to drive motivation and action.  Rob reflects on his spiritual journey and how silence and introspection have helped him find peace and purpose. He also shares the key lesson he has learned: what we seek externally is often something we need to find within ourselves. In this interview, you'll learn: How to overcome fear How to connect with your 'WHY' How to overcome procrastination How to change negative thought patterns How to accept and love all part of yourself Let's continue to seek deeper understanding and connection with themselves, emphasizing the value of inner peace and presence. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:53 Starting a Podcast 04:04 Why Do We Struggle to Focus? 09:17 Dealing with Intellectual Fear 14:44 What’s Your Most Repeated Thought? 18:20 What is Your WHY? 24:49 Overcoming the Fear of the Unknown 30:32 Going for the Things You Aspire 35:39 There Are Different Forms of Addiction 41:53 Our Truth is Always within Us 46:50 Take a Pause to Reconnect with Yourself 50:22 The Duality of What We Value 55:44 How Do You Pick Yourself Up? 59:40 What Life Lesson That Changed You? 01:04:41 Lesson Learned the Hard Way 01:07:48 Rob on Final Five Episode Resources: Rob Dial | Website Rob Dial | Instagram Rob Dial | Facebook Rob Dial | TikTok Rob Dial | LinkedIn The Mindset Mentor Podcast See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so glad that you decided to tune in to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest is a long time friend. When we tell you about how we met and how long ago it was, you'll get to hear this story in a few moments. But I'm really excited because this is his first time on the show. We're finally making it happen.

His name is Rob Dial, the host of the hugely popular podcast, The Mindset Mentor podcast. Rob simplifies neurology, psychology, and cognitive behavioral therapy to help people grasp how their brains and bodies function together. Rob's podcast is one of his biggest projects. If you're not subscribed yet, check it out.

And Rob's also the author of Level Up. The book is out right now and it guides people to take action, overcome procrastination and form lasting habits. Rob believes that when you master your mindset, you master your life. If you don't have this book already, go and order it now. Level Up by Rob Dahl. Welcome to the show, Rob. Dude, I'm so excited to be here. Dude, I can't believe it's taken us this long.

I know. But we're doing it. Hey, I love it. And I don't come to Austin enough, so we haven't done that yet. But I was saying to everyone, yeah, we've we met seven years ago. We were just talking about it in New York. And I think we were both just starting out trying to figure it out, making content, figuring it out. And we'd connected because I think we had a similar set of like values and beliefs around the kind of mindset.

And you were always really curious about Eastern spirituality. And I felt like we just had great conversations. We went on a couple of walks, hung out, and we were just saying this offline. It was you who actually said to me back in 2017, you were like, dude, you should start a podcast. And I was like, I don't know if I have time. I don't know if I'm able to do it.

I don't know what it would be. And you were like, I remember you literally saying that, you should just record yourself walking around, like just whatever you realize. You just have so much wisdom, there's just, people need to hear it. No, but I'm grateful, man, for all those conversations and all the conversations in between and,

I remember when we were talking about this as well, it's beautiful. Yeah, that book actually, you helped me with that, whereas like I felt like, in 2020, I never wanted to write a book, and then in 2020, I was like, I, I, that book actually, you helped me with that. Whereas like, I felt like in 2020, I never wanted to write a book. And then in 2020, I was like, man, I'm kind of thinking about it. And I talked with, with one of my friends

who was, had written a book. And then I was like, I'm gonna hit up Jay and see what he thinks. And so I called you up and I was like, hey man, like, should I go traditional? Should I go like self-publish? And you're like, well, traditional is good. You told me the reasons why.

And it was like, I always say like in life, you never see the entire path, but you can look like in the headlights where it's like, if you drive at night, don't see the entire path to where you're going. But you can see the next hundred feet in front of you. And like the first hundred feet was calling my friend and I was like, hey, you have a successful book.

What should I do? And then the next hundred feet was calling you up and you're like, yeah, you should do this. And so then I talked to an agent, went a little bit further on and took three years, but it eventually came out, but you were a part of it as well, man. I love it. It took you 30 seconds to start dropping hacks, habits and tools.

I love it. And that's, I know the audience is going to love this conversation because I know you all love mindset. I know you all love habits. I know you love tools. This book is packed with them. And today we're going to extract it all out of Rob. So Rob, I want to dive straight in because I think there's so many things we can talk

about. And I love that this book has so much to do with focus. And we, I feel like that's a topic that's really important. We haven't had many guests that have shed a lot of light on it. So this is, this is perfect. Talk to me about why, because I know you love the neuroscience. Why is it that we all want something? We have goals.

We have things that we believe are important, but we struggle to focus on them. Yeah. Well, there's, there's a couple of different things. I think the first thing is that we hold ourselves back from his, we have a lot of fears and fears when you really start to dive into them, like you mentioned in the beginning of this, like I started talking with you about like the East and you started, I remember you told me in 2017 like you should read the Bhagavad Gita. So I literally wrote it, I got it like the next week and read it while we were traveling. And so there was that and

as I was writing the book I was like what's the thing, because the original title of the book was The Psychology of Taking Action. Because I was looking at the Mindset Mentor podcast, I have 1,400 episodes and I was, it's just me speaking for almost every single one of them. And I was like, what do I teach? Like, what do people want from me? And I was like, it's almost all like tips and tricks to understand yourself to take action. Because everybody who's listening to a podcast

has the awareness of, I wanna improve, I wanna get better. I want something different, but how do I do it? And so I started saying, okay, if taking action is what the book's gonna be about, like why don't people take action in the first place? And one of the things that pops up for people is fear. Like there's some sort of fear that pops up for them. And I had a conversation with one of my friends

who went and lived with a tribe, a native Brazilian tribe in the middle of Brazil. And so he had to fly into a town, he had to hop on a boat and go for two days on a boat in the middle of nowhere. And he started talking to me about these things that he called primal fears and intellectual fears. So like a primal fear is pain or death is attached to it.

And we don't really come up with too many primal fears in our life nowadays. Intellectual fear is like what we deal with all day long, which is, you know, the fear of rejection, the fear of failure, the fear of not being accepted, the fear of success. We have all these fears and all of these fears are made up in our minds. And so I was listening to, I'm pretty sure it was Sadguru I was listening to. And I was like, I put on,

and I was driving around in Sedona as I was writing the book. I was there just to try to get my whole mind together by myself writing it. And I was like looking at fears and trying to figure them out. And one thing that he said that like really hit me more than anything else is. Okay. I've identified my fears and the next thing is, well, how do I overcome these fears? And if it's an intellectual fear, the fears that exist in our minds is you can't

overcome something that doesn't exist. And so we create, we basically wake up in the boogie. We wake up in the morning, we create the bogeyman, which is like the fear of success, the fear of failure, whatever it is. And instead of actually taking the action that we need to and focusing on what it is that we want, we take all of our focus and put it towards trying to overcome this fear.

When in reality, the fear doesn't even exist in the first place. And so I think the biggest thing for most people is like, the fear is keeping you from focusing. But there's also like the identity of who you think you are. And one of my favorite things is challenging who I think I am all the time. Like I love the story and I put in the book of Jim Carrey

when he decided to be in Man on the Moon. And the Man on the Moon was a movie where he ended up playing Andy Kaufman. And there was a whole documentary that was done on this, and they curbed it for like 20 years because it was so off the rails of how crazy he went. And what he did was he, it's a documentary called Jim and Andy

that's on him playing the role on Man on the Moon. So Andy Kaufman was a guy who was once alive. And the crazy part about Andy Kaufman is he also played other characters. So it was Jim Carrey playing Andy Kaufman who played like Tony Clifton and other characters. So it was Jim Carrey playing Andy Kaufman who played like Tony Clifton and other characters. But the thing that happened with him

was that he would never break character. So he was a method actor. So for four months, he played as this real life person. And even to the point where his driver that would pick him up in Hollywood and drive him to his house, said that whoever he was playing, at the time that they stopped recording, whether it was Andy Kaufman, Tony Clifton, he would play that person the entire

day when he was driving him home, that night, and he'd pick him up and he was still the same person, not Jim Carrey anymore. And so what happened was he ended up like, and it gets kind of crazy where he ends up doing therapy sessions with Andy Kaufman's real daughter and his family to like help them overcome his sudden death. And so what happens is they stopped recording four months later and he's like, I don't know who I am. And he lost who he was.

And he's like, I don't know my beliefs. I don't know what makes me happy, what makes me sad, what pisses me off anymore. He's like, I've kind of just lost who Jim Carrey is. And that's kind of like his spiritual awakening that you've seen him go through over the past 20 years. And he realized, if I can lose Jim Carrey, then who the hell is Jim Carrey? And he realized that Jim Carrey is just basically a character that he's playing all the time

that is completely somebody else. And he could just wake up another morning and act like he's somebody else. And so I think that two of the things that really keep us from focusing on stuff is we get really afraid and fearful of making change or judgment or failure and all that. And the other thing is like who we actually truly think we are will hold us back from taking either the action that we

need to or you know staying in the exact same position that we're in. I love that. I want to go down both of those routes because I find them both fascinating for different reasons and I want to go down that more spiritual, ethereal journey as well. Let's do it. Because yeah. But before we do that, I want to make sure that, so if we talk about the fears that people are experiencing, as you said, a lot of the time it's an intellectual fear.

It's not real, but it feels so real. Feels real, yeah. Right, like when someone says like, oh, I'm really scared about what if I get rejected from the job, or I'm really scared that my partner is going to leave me, or I'm really scared about what if I get rejected from the job, or I'm really scared that my partner's gonna leave me, or I'm really scared that I don't feel good enough or smart enough to make it in whatever field it is. Those feel extremely real.

How do you process a feeling that feels real, even though it may be intellectual? Yeah, well, so that's the beautiful thing about being a human. And I think it's, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's actually in the Bhagavad Gita, it gives an example of a lion attacking you, or a tiger attacking you at night.

And one of the examples I give in the book is similar to that where it's like, if you think about it, if you, we've all had this, we have a really intense dream. Like you're walking in a forest, whatever it is, and you see a lion, it starts running after you. You know, you run from it, you turn, you look over your shoulders, getting closer,

you're still running from it, you turn and look over your shoulder, just as teeth are about to dig into you. And you wake up in the middle of the night, and your body didn't move at all. But you're sweating, you're out of breath, your heart rate is intensely going. And the amazing thing about being a human,

they usually say, in any case, is what your biggest strength is is also can be your biggest fault. The thing about humans is that we can project our minds into a future that doesn't exist yet. And so what we can do right now is we can sit here, we're in the studio, everything is amazing. We have food, water, shelter, clothing, everything.

But if I'm like, as a lot of people do, like if I'm starting a business, right. I can sit here and I can think, well, I really want to start this business. But then I start playing out all of the things that could go wrong, which is what we tend to do. Not what goes right, but what could go wrong. When I project my mind into that future, the crazy part is that my mind and my body are constantly connected. So my, my brain is sending neurope part is that my mind and my body are constantly connected.

So my brain is sending neuropeptides to my body and creating hormones as if that moment is actually happening right now. And so what happens is we tend to, as humans as a protection mechanism, we tend to project ourselves into a future that is fearful, that is scary, and that fearful, scary feeling usually keeps us

in the exact same place. And so what I always say is like, if I'm going to imagine the worst that could happen, why don't I at least try to see the best that could happen? And so if I'm going to notice myself the awareness of like, I'm really in a lot of fear right now with starting this business. And I'm going, man, what's the worst that could happen?

Well, then I might as well close my eyes and say like, what's the best that could happen? And what would it feel like to start this business and to be able to crack a million dollars in a business? And how proud of myself would I be to break a million dollars in sales and to be able to build this and travel with my family and provide what I've always wanted to provide it?

And if I'm gonna feel the feelings of fear, why don't I also just try on feeling the feelings of success and getting there? And so if we notice it's an intellectual fear, the first piece that I always say is there's three pieces. There's the awareness of it. Okay, I'm aware that I'm in a state of fear. I need a practice to get myself out of that. Okay, if I notice myself in a state of fear, what's my practice to get myself out of it? Well, I'm gonna to go ahead and I'm going to calm down and take six deep breaths. And I'm going to connect back to my heart.

And I'm going to ask myself like, what's the best thing that could happen? That's the practice to get myself out of it. And then the last piece is repetition. So it's awareness, it's practice, it's repetition. If I do it over and over and over again, eventually I start to rewire myself. So like one of the things that, that I found in myself years ago that I didn't like was that I judge people. And I'm like, man, I love people.

I try to be of service as much as I can, but an immediate thought that will come in my head sometimes is like judgment of somebody that I don't know. And I just judge them. And I was like, I don't like that pattern. I want to change this pattern within myself. It's awareness. I've become aware of what I wanna change. And the first time I really did it,

I was at a grocery store and this guy had this Bluetooth, you know, like the long Bluetooth. Like as if he was making cold calls at an office, but he was at the grocery store. And immediately the first thought in my head was judgment. And I always say, you can't change your first thought, but you could change your second thought. So I noticed the judgment as a first thought, awareness.

My practice that I decided for myself was, I'm gonna force myself in my head to say three things that I like about this guy. I paused myself in the moment. I found myself in a pattern that I don't wanna be in anymore. What are three things that I like about this guy? And I said it, and then I went on about my day. And I started doing this over and over

and over and over again. And one thing that I noticed is that my first thought Started changing to less judgment and more acceptance because ultimately that's what I really want to work on is more acceptance and loving of people And of myself and so I think it's it's becoming aware of it Once you're aware of the the things that you're trying the pattern you're trying to change What's the practice that you're going to take yourself down? And then noticing that you're just gonna need to do it over and over and over again. But one of the biggest keys is to give yourself grace as you're doing it.

Because a lot of times we make, we become aware, and then we judge ourselves and we beat ourselves up for it. So I think it's giving yourself a lot of love and grace and going, hey, I've noticed this pattern, don't worry, we're gonna change it. Let's go on this practice and just continuing to do that. Yeah, so well said. Hey, everyone, it's Jay here.

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now on shelves at Target. So head to our store locator at drinkjuni.com and find Juni at a Target near you. I think so often we get scared even of having the thought of what could be possible because we're scared that it can't be possible. And we just find another thing to be fearful of. And I love this idea of what you're saying around transforming your thoughts because I've definitely,

the more and more I've studied books, the more and more I've read and I've thought, I've discovered that all of our failure and success in life is based on our most repeated thought. And one of my biggest questions to most people I meet now is what is your most repeated thought? And most people don't know the answer because they're not aware in your

words. And a lot of people who do know will say it's something like, I'm not good enough. I don't like the way I look. I am ugly. Whatever else it may be for them. Right? And so we're either aware and it's negative or we're unaware because it's so subconscious. And I've started to recognize that most of the thoughts we have are not that different. They're the same thought that comes in a different voice, a different tone, a different vocabulary, a different language, but it's the same repetition. And so I've started to really think about what's my most repeated thought and

how can I be more, as you are saying, how can I be more selective about it? And how can I choose it more effectively rather than just let it be something that's kind of just coming up? Yeah. And it's, and it's like, don't identify with your thoughts, you know, like one of the things that I don't remember where I heard it before, but the way I like to think about it. And, and I've heard you say before, even like a lot of people say like, oh, I struggle with

meditating and I've heard you say before where it's not about mastering people say like, oh, I struggle with meditating. And I've heard you say before where it's not about mastering your thoughts. It's not about making your thoughts go away. It's just becoming aware of your thoughts a little bit more because when we close our eyes, about 60% of our brain is visual. For visual things to see. So when we close our eyes,

it kind of turns off a lot of parts. And so thoughts usually come up and we become aware of those. Like one of the things that I've been doing a lot recently is like trying to be in as much silence as possible. Like I'm just trying to be as much silence as I possibly can, because I feel like that's where a lot of my awarenesses

and a lot of my answers come from. And so when you sit there and the analogy that I love, when you start thinking of your thoughts is it's like sitting on the edge of a mountain and down below there's just a road going that you're looking at. And sitting on the edge of the mountain is like meditating or just sitting in silence and just, you know, looking at your thoughts and you can watch the cars go by, the thoughts that go by and not have to be attached to them. You don't find yourself getting sucked into the red car that just went by. You just watch

the cars go by. And that's the way that I try to see my thoughts, which is, okay, I'm gonna watch them go by. I'm not gonna connect to them. But I can look at them and be like, is this thought, which about 90% of our thoughts are the same as yesterday, is this thought helping me in trying to get to where I wanna be in life? Or is this thought holding me back from trying to get

to where I wanna be in life? And if it's helping me, then I want to strengthen it. If it's not helping me, well then, hey, as that guy on the podcast said, I can't control my first thought, but I control my second. So what would I prefer my second thought to be? Yeah, I think you just hit the nail on the head. Like that's what it is for me.

It's whether you've understood that you're not your thoughts or not, that can be quite hard for people because I think we're so close to them. But even if you can practice distance through meditation or mindfulness, the real win is being able to look at a thought and say, is it good for me? Or is it not helpful?

Like you just said, like I think that is the wisdom of it, that can I evaluate everything that's repetitive in my mind and ask myself, is this useful? Is it helpful? Is it allowing me to move in the direction I want? Because chances are, a lot of what we're saying is actually doing the complete opposite. And then you go, oh, wait a minute, even though it's interesting, and even though I could get lost in it, I don't want to waste time. And therefore I'll move in the other direction.

You talk about procrastination in this book, and that again, going back to your earlier title, is a block against the psychology of action. And we all have a friend, or maybe we we are that friend that constantly puts things off. We postpone, we procrastinate. We say, I'll do it another year. I want to launch a podcast. Someone's been saying that for two years.

There's someone listening right now who wants to start an Instagram page. They put it off for six months. There's someone listening who's like, Oh, I missed out on the clubhouse thing. And then I missed out on the clubhouse thing, and then I missed out on the TikTok thing, and now I'm missing out on whatever the next thing is. And we procrastinate, hoping that one day will come. What have you learned about procrastination

through your research when you were writing the book that has helped people break that cycle because it seems to apply to so many of our lives? I mean, the thing about it is this, if I've always, I always like to be like very extreme in examples because we can go extreme that it makes a lot of sense. But I always tell people like, and I always say it like,

hey, I've given this one, I used to give a lot of speeches. I would be in front of people and say, hey, what's the chance of you making a million dollars this year? Give me, give me numbers. And everyone's like 0%, 0%, 0%. 1%, there's always 1%, it's like five, and that's like the most it'll get to. And I said, okay, I'm gonna give you

the most extreme example, but I just wanna see what happens, okay? What's the percentage chance of you making a million dollars this year, legally, and if you don't, everyone that you love dies? And everyone's like 100%, 100%, 1,000, 1,000%. I said, what changed?

The goal didn't change, the timeframe didn't change, why you're doing it changed. Would you wake up in the morning if everyone that you love's life depended on it and be like, yeah, well maybe I should scroll on TikTok for a little while. No, you'd be like, I'm gonna take action immediately. And so it doesn't need to be like a fear

of losing everybody, but what's really behind that is like why, like why they're doing it. Like if I have a reflection of anyone who doesn't know Jay, like you're one of the hardest working people I've ever met, but you have a really strong why, right? And that's like one of the best parts about it where it's like, when I see Jay, I'm like, this guy has, he has this internal feeling of like,

I want to change the world. And you work so hard trying to do it. And that's one of the most beautiful things about you is like you're wanting to change the world and you have a really strong to do it. And that's one of the most beautiful things about you is like you're wanting to change the world and you have a really strong why to it. And I think that if most people could figure out like, oh yeah, well, I wanna do this thing. Why do you wanna do it?

And my very first one on one coach used to say to me, he would say, what's your why? What's your why? Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? He was like hammer it home in my head. And I was like, why do you ask this so much? And he would always say,

because if your why is strong enough, your how will reveal itself. If you know why you want to do something, how it's gonna be done, you'll figure out. It doesn't matter. Things are gonna get in your way. There's gonna be obstacles. There's always gonna be obstacles.

There's always gonna be challenges. There's always gonna be moments of like, I don't know if I can do this. But if your why is so strong, it's like, I don't care what comes up in front of me, I'm gonna get it done. Like most people, they want to be motivated. And I have come to hate the word motivation

because motivation is so fleeting. Like we can wake up and we can listen to a podcast where we can get, you know, read something and be motivated. And then something can happen to us and it's gone, which just disappears. What I wanna be is I wanna be driven. happen to us and it's gone, which just disappears. What I wanna be is I wanna be driven. Like when you see a driven person, like you see it in their eyes like, yeah,

they're not stopping. And the difference between a motivated person and a driven person is that the driven person has this why that they want to see have happened in the world or in their life or for their family. And so I think if people are like, I want to accomplish this goal, the very next question is why,

and then go why, why, why, why, why, and go deeper into it. An example I give in the book is I had a coaching client years ago, like eight, nine years ago, and he was like, Rob, I wanna make $100,000 this year, I've never made it. And I was like, why?

And I took him through what's called seven levels of why, just keep asking why, why, why, why, why. And it went from, I wanna make $100,000 a year because I've never done it before, to the eventual thing was he had just got into a divorce a couple years ago, both of his young children lived in a bad part of town with his ex-wife. He wanted to regain custody because he was afraid

that both of his children would be killed in a drive-by. And he was so terrified of it that that was his actual true why. And so it wasn't, the motivation, I didn't have to talk to him and say, hey, how close you'd make $100,000 this year? I said, hey, how close you'd be providing more safety for your children this year?

Because he wanted them to move in with him. He wanted to be able to provide for them and to make sure that they were safe. And so I think that if we just ask ourself, why do I truly want to accomplish this goal? It kind of reveals itself and it makes it a lot easier to take the action. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, you know, and I appreciate all the kind words, but I can definitely say the only thing that's kept me going is my why. Because I think there are so many things that either make you want to give up or slow down

or become lazy or complacent. And when I look at it and someone asked me this, I was sitting with another creator end of last year and he was just like to me, Jay, why do you even do anything anymore? Like, what's the point? Like, it seems like you're good. Like, why do you need to do anything?

And I was like, we've just got to the start of everything. Like, I just got to the beginning of where I need to be. I was like, we've just got to a point where we can connect with lots of people, but we need to give people the step-by-step process to transform their life. And now we can take them on the journey because people are listening, they're engaged,

we have a community, we have a connection with people. But when I started out, we didn't have any of that. So I see it as we just got to the start of where I wanna be because, it as we just got to the start of where I want to be because, and it was just interesting to me that so many people struggle to find their why. And I think it's because we don't, no one's, and you just said, your coach helped you do it. It was same with me, my art teacher at, from age 11 to age 18, he was my art teacher at school. And every time I'd paint something or draw something or do a collage or graphic design.

And whatever I'd do, the first question he'd ask me is, why did you do it? And I'd be like, because my initial response was, because it looks good. Like that, you know, I was a kid, what do I know? And he'd be like, every year he'd be like, why did you do it? And I'd be like, oh, because this color matches with this color. And then be like, why do you do it? And I'm like, oh, because it reveals the metaphor that I think this is about. And then he'd be like, why did you do it? And I'm like, oh, because it reveals the metaphor that I think this is about. And then he'd be like, why did you do it?

And I'm like, because that's how I'm feeling right now. I'm trying to, and every year he would ask me, he would reveal more and more layers of my psyche in a similar way. And again, I've owed it to someone in my life who pushed me to ask the question why it's same as you. And so I think what we're both saying is please ask that question to yourself. But what if someone asks that question and they feel stuck and they kind of go, I've asked it,

but it's kind of just like, just want a nice house, like I just want a nice car, I just kind of want to, you know, like it's not that deep. And I think you're right, like you said, we don't have a lot of primal fears. Like some people are listening right now will have fears of survival and that is driving them. And they are working hard and they are pushing.

And at the same time, we'll have people who are like driven, but they're like, I'm not driven enough because I haven't got anything to be that scared about or that worried about. How did that person discover their work? Yeah, I think for me, it's like, my life was never terrible. Or, you know, like when I started the podcast,

the mindset mentor, like I was at a point in my life where I was making a whole bunch of money and I was 27 years old and I was making 250 grand a year and I was working from home and everything was great. But I felt like I was slowly withering away and I could see what the future was going to be while I was there. And I said, okay, if I do this for another five years,

and I'm 32 years old, and I'm still doing this, or I have my manager's job, is that going to fulfill me? And it actually gave me more anxiety to think about having my manager's job. And then I sat there and I thought, OK, well, I really want to do this podcasting thing. It seems to be going pretty well. I want to coach people.

I want to help people. And I also, at the same time, was starting an Amazon business and trying to make money online and do that. people, I wanna help people. And I also at the same time was like starting an Amazon business and trying to make money online and do that. And so I thought about it and I asked myself, okay, if I fast forward five years from today, do I wanna be the person that's in sales management

like I'm doing now and consulting? Do I wanna be the guy that's selling stuff on Amazon and you know, incredible Amazon business person? Or do I wanna be the guy that's coaching people and helping people change their lives? And the immediate answer was very clear, coaching people and changing their lives. And I was like, okay, well that feels like it's the path.

And then immediately comes up is all kinds of fear. Because I don't know what I'm doing. Like back in the day, 2015, nobody made any money in podcasts. I didn't have any idea of how to grow a business, any of that type of stuff. But what was important to me was number one, when I fast forwarded into the future,

the futures that I didn't want seemed way more painful than trying the unknown and what could be if I did take the path. And so that became more of a fear, like the fear of judgment, the fear of putting myself out there, other people's opinions, it was there, it's still there. And I don't know if you ever get past it,

but you just kind of get more used to it. But the fear of being in the exact same position, working the same job, maybe making a little bit more money doing this for every day until the day I die, was terrifying to me. That was a fear. And I was like, well then this path of the unknown isn't as scary.

And so I might as well take this path of the unknown. And I'll be fully transparent. There was, um, I shared this on, uh, like one other time, I think there was a moment in 2015, where, uh, I started the podcast in August of 2015, November of 2015, I was feeling like a whole lot of fear. And I was like, I might have to go back and work for someone else again. And it was just, fear was so in my head. And I was like, I gotta go back to making money. I got a new house, I got a mortgage.

I don't know how I'm gonna do this. I'm not making any money doing this. My sister came out to me and I believe, you know, if you're silent, the messages are always there. If you're looking, the message are always there. My sister, I was at her house and she goes, hey, have you ever seen this box of dad's stuff? And I was like, no.

And she brought it, my father was an alcoholic. He passed away when I was 15 from his alcoholism and she brought out this box and it was like his glasses. It was a t-shirt of his. Um, it was his watch. And the other things were a bunch of letters. My dad was in jail for a little while, uh, for multiple DUIs and they put them in jail and he would write letters to us. And, um, and he wrote a letter to my sister on her 19th birthday. And I was reading this, you know, 2015. So he had to wrote it to her in 1999. And the very last line was, I hope

you live your life with courage, love, and laughter. And I read it and it was like the universe warped. And I was like, oh, he wrote this for me. Like there was a moment where I was like, he wrote this to my sister, but the universe is giving this message through my dad because I need to hear this right now. Because I'm in so much fear, and the very first line is courage.

Live your life with courage, love and laughter. And I was like, I gotta commit. Like this has to be the thing. I've got to make a decision. And when you look at the root word of decision, it's decadere, which means to cut off. I'm going to cut off all other options. I'd heard like Will Smith say,

there's no reason to have plan B because it distracts from plan A. Like it's gotta be the thing. And I was like, oh my God, I gotta commit to this thing. I can't have any more feelings of like, I'm gonna go back to working for someone else. Like this is my life path. I'm either gonna succeed at it or I'm gonna die trying.

And I was like, I don't know what to do. I was like, I'm going to get this tattoo to my arm. So I literally have, you live your life with courage, love and laughter tattooed in my arm, my very first tattoo I ever got. But it was like, for me, people always think like, when you make a decision, the fear disappears. Like I wish that I could do these things, but it's like, it's always there, but you've got to learn that like the fear is always going to be there.

But my bigger fear is getting to end my life and having not done this, having not tried to help people. Being in the room with my father after he passed away when I was 15 years old and realizing because he was the first person I ever met that passed away, I'm going to be there one day and I saw it. I was like, oh yeah, he was a dreamer and he was an amazing person, but he didn't do what he wanted to do. I am not going to live that life. I'm going to create what I want to create. And now I have all of the other fears that everyone else has, but my biggest fear is getting to the end of my life and not having tried or not having at least gone for it.

Yeah, that's, I love hearing that. And you've reminded me of a great speech that Jim Carrey gave, funnily enough, and he talked about how his dad, I believe his dad, and I could be getting this wrong, but he said that his dad was an accountant and he did that to be safe. And he said that when he was young, his dad got made redundant from his safe job. Right. Jim Carrey said that in life, you are probably going to fail at something you don't love. So you might as well try something you do love.

Right. Like this idea that I'm choosing the safe option or I'm choosing something that my parents thought my family wanted, or I'm choosing something I think is secure. Even that's unstable and uncertain. And so the uncertainty that you pursue actually is less fearful because you're on top of it. You're aware. And I think that's one of the biggest habits

that I think has changed my life is that I stopped believing and accepting that I would get to a place where I no longer had to use my brain. Right? Like I think we all believe subconsciously somewhere that there's a paycheck, there's a bank balance, there's a home, there's a fashion, there's a partner. That means from that point on, I don't have to think about anything. It's all good. It's all good.

And I'd say my best habit in life is recognizing that that is the biggest myth that we've been sold. And I just don't accept it. And I'm okay that my life requires constant work ethic and effort and awareness and being astute and being conscious because that is what's actually being demanded by this world. An uncertain world forces you to be conscious. But if you're unconscious in an uncertain world, that's leading to a really dangerous place. But I think we're waiting for that moment where we can just not be conscious

because it's so much hard work. But to your point, it's way harder work being unconscious because the amount of unconscious issues that arise are numerous. I think there's like a lot of wisdom in what you said, because a lot of people would rather just be like, well, let me get to this destination once I'm there, everything becomes better. Hey, I want that too. I do too.

Right? And I thought that for a long time, and it's interesting, the journey that I've had is, you know, I always wanted to make money, because I thought money was going to give me what I needed. It would give me that safety and security that I never had is, you know, I always wanted to make money because I thought money was gonna give me what I needed. It would give me that safety and security that I never felt as a child. And then I got to a goal that I wanted to get to and I realized I feel exactly the same as I've always felt.

I don't feel any different, I don't feel any more secure, I don't feel any happier, I don't feel any more loved. And what I realized was I thought that the achievement, the recognition from other people, the money in my bank account, the buying cool stuff would fill what I actually thought was in consciously now know is I thought that all of those things would fill a void that was inside of me. And what I realized is what I was searching for from the external world is

actually what I was searching for for myself. And so the reason why I spend so much time in silence nowadays, I'll just go out of my porch and I'll just sit there for a couple hours, is because I'm trying to fill the void that I have created through life and through patterns and through heartbreaks and through all of the things that happened in my childhood. And I'm trying to be there as the 38 year old man for the nine year old boy that's still healing. And what I've realized is that none of the material things, anything externally will ever give me what I was ever searching for.

Everything I've always searched for in the external was what I've been searching for for myself. And so I don't, I a hundred percent agree with you. I don't think there's any destination we ever get to. I think I'm constantly going to overcome more things every single day. And you know, if I lived to to 100, I would be so lucky and another 62 more years, I don't expect that I'm gonna get to the end of my life

and be like, I figured it out. I think the beautiful part about it is I think that I was given this need for achievement to realize that it doesn't change anything because the path of wanting to achieve and doing it through business and doing it through growing and all that stuff has actually lit up inside of me a spiritual journey that wouldn't have been there had I not wanted to go for those things. Something that makes me crazy is when people say, well, I had this career before, but it

was a waste. And that's where the perspective shift comes, that it's not a waste that everything you've done has built you to where you are now. This is She Pivots, the podcast where we explore the inspiring pivots women have made and dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them. Join me, Emily Tish Sussman, every Wednesday on She Pivots women have made and dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them. Join me, Emily Tish Sussman, every Wednesday on She Pivots as I sit down with inspiring

women like Misty Copeland, Brooke Shields, Vanessa Hudgens, and so many more. We dive into how these women made their pivot and their mindset shifts that happened as a result. It's a podcast about women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. Listen to She Pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhita Vlukya,

in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're gonna talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there, aren't we?

People that I admire. When we say, listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on. Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life. I already believe in myself. I already see myself. And so when people give me an opportunity, I'm just like, oh great, you see me too. We'll laugh together, we'll cry together and find a way through all of our emotions.

Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to A Really Good Cry with Rali Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't understand what the big fat ones are. You don't put those inside of you, do you? I mean, you do?

This is a show about women. Okay, so I just reapplied my lip gloss after eating a delicious lunch. We are headed back now to the European Political Systems class at Baruch College. Woo! Finally, a show about women that isn't just a thinly veiled aspirational nightmare. That's it, that's actually the name of the show. It's not hosted, not narrated,

we're just dropping into a woman's world. It's like reality TV, on the radio. I found out when my dad was gay when I was 10, we were in a convertible on the 405 freeway, listening to the B-52s. Looking back, I should have said, this is gay. This is already all gay. Listen to Finally A Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, absolutely. I heard this. You reminded me of this story that's told about Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Franklin

had 13 virtues and these were all qualities that he aspired to develop in his life. Simplicity, authenticity, patience, things like that. And when he was on his deathbed, they asked him which one he didn't accomplish. And he said it was the 13th one. And they said, what was that? And he said, humility. And I love that because I think what you're saying is,

humility doesn't mean you're meek or weak. It means I'm able to accept there's always more to learn. I don't know everything. And it's okay. I'm going to give myself grace for it too. It isn't a feeling of I'm useless because I don't know. It's actually I'll become more useful if I recognize there are things that I still have to learn. And when I'm listening to you about your spiritual journey and that silence, I'm intrigued by that. Walk us through how you fill that void,

almost practice-wise, because I identify with that fully. And it's funny because we always talked about how our lives were kind of opposite. Because when I met you, I'd kind of gone down this deep spiritual path, but had no money. And you were in the other boat where you had, you had sustained yourself financially and create a really good stable place for yourself, but you were seeking spiritually.

And so we're kind of at, right. Right. We had that conversation. Yeah. And let's talk about that too, but I'm intrigued as to how does that couple of hours or whatever that time on your porch, like, how do you do that for people? Because I think we, we like the sound of that that but then we get distracted by the next thing. What I've come to find and I can speak within myself and just what I've seen from other people,

but what I've seen within myself is that I've learned a lot of lessons from my dad. Most of them after his death and me processing things. My father was the way that he was and he became an alcoholic because he had things in his past that he hadn't worked through. And the thing that he hadn't worked through is when he was 12 years old, my father heard a gunshot, he walked into the room and his dad had just shot himself in the mouth with a shotgun. And so my dad grew up in rural Tennessee,

this is 1960s when this happened, yeah 1960s when this happened, there wasn't a whole lot for him to understand. There weren't podcasts, there weren't books to read like we have nowadays. And so I always consciously knew that what was happening was that he had not healed his pain. And Gabor Mate says, don't ask why the trauma, ask why the pain.

And when I first heard Gabor Mate, I was like, oh my God, someone's finally saying what I always thought with my father. And so, you know, I was like, oh my God, someone's finally saying what I always thought with my father. And so, you know, we can look at him and say, oh yeah, he's an alcoholic and he didn't overcome his trauma. The trauma, the way it came up in my life is I became a workaholic.

And so I didn't, you know, sometimes we could see someone and say, oh, they drink too much alcohol, they do too much drugs, they eat too much food. And we can say, oh yeah, that's their addiction. The problem and the hard thing in our society is that my addiction of workaholic is rewarded. And people look up to it and they're like, you're doing so great. You're making so much money. All of this is so good. And what I came to find is that my workaholism was just basically me trying to not feel my feelings and to not work through and process those things.

Scrolling on social media could be that way for somebody. It could be some people are addicted to working out. Some people are addicted to watching TV and there's so many, some people addicted to shopping. There's so many different addictions that we have. And what I found is that the hardest thing for me was to stop and to just not have to, I was always trying to fill every single moment of my day,

always try to be so busy. When I didn't have something to do, I'd find something to do in my business. Businesses, you can always work all day, every day. And so what I've tried to do and I've built in my business is a lot of systems and processes through, my VP of operations has really helped me with this a ton, to be able to take a lot of stuff off my plate

so that I have more time to just be. It's my personal belief that I think that God, the universe life, whatever it is, speaks in silence. And so if I want those messages, I need to be silent. What I found for myself is when I would be silent, a lot of anxiety would come up. And I'd be like, you gotta go to the next thing. You gotta go to the next thing. You gotta go to the next thing.

This is stupid, you should be doing something else. And then I just realized that what I was trying to do is achieve to fill a void. But I could sit here, and there's been moments where I'll sit on my porch and I'll literally just start crying. And I'm like, sometimes it's gratitude. Oh my God, I can't believe I've been given this life.

I can't believe I've had these challenges. I can't believe that I've had this come up I'm so grateful for every single aspect of it and sometimes I just sit there and tear up and I'm like I don't know what this is But this is something my body's releasing and I need to be okay with this releasing process You know, there's there's a really interesting thing that people could look at There's two videos that are really interesting on On YouTube one of them is called Polar Bear Trauma,

where they show a video of a polar bear and they shoot it with a tranquilizer gun from a helicopter. They chase it down the helicopter, really heightened experience. They shoot it with a tranquilizer gun, so it's still awake, but it's not completely out. And it starts having a convulsion, starts seizureing.

And eventually after it seizures, what it's doing is it's releasing all of the cortisol, all of the adrenaline from its body so that there's no trauma that comes with it. And so then it goes after it's shaken for a while, takes a really deep breath and it just kind of calms down. Almost identical video of a impala that gets attacked by a jaguar

and the jaguar gets scared off. It starts to convulse, takes a deep breath, and then it moves it. And we're taught in our lives at some point in time not to remove this and to work through these traumas and these feelings. I think children naturally do it through like temper tantrums.

They move it. And sometimes as adults, we either need to have like an adult temper tantrum in safety where you just take a pillow and you can be angry, you can be mad, you can just scream, you can cuss, you can just scream, you can cuss, you can smash it against the bed, whatever it is in safety, by yourself

without other people around so you don't scare them as well. And then sometimes it's also just like sitting there in silence and realizing that what is coming is going. It's like when you squeeze an orange, what's inside of it, orange juice, cause that's what's in it, right? When you sit there and you put pressure on yourself or you give yourself space, what's coming out is actually what's inside and it, orange juice, because that's what's in it, right? When you sit there and you put pressure on yourself or you give yourself space,

what's coming out is actually what's inside and your body's natural intelligence is trying to let go of it. And so for me, that's what I've found is that there's some moments where I'm just like, incredibly grateful. There's some moments where I'm, by doing nothing, Jay, I get so much anxiety.

And I'm like, what is this? Why? And instead of running from it, I get curious. And I think if we could just get more curious, like I've been reading a whole lot of Krishnamurti recently. I love Krishnamurti. And one thing he says is don't know yourself because knowing is based in the past

and past is based off of memories. Start learning yourself, which is in the present moment. So be present and be like, what comes up? How can I be curious about this anxious feeling or these tears or whatever it is? And just be in the space to just know yourself or get to know yourself a little bit better. Yeah, it's so great.

I mean, talking about that, that goes to me back to what we were talking about at the start of it. You were saying how this idea of, well, what if the worst thing happens? What if the best thing happens? And we're talking about this idea of Jim Carrey and you were saying that there's this experience of, well, what if the worst thing happens? What if the best thing happens? And we're talking about this idea of Jim Carrey and you were saying that there's this experience of,

well, I lost who Jim Carrey was. And what we've both talked about is we are so much of what our thoughts are. And therefore if you change the thoughts completely, you're almost a completely different human. So then who are we? Comes back to this know thyself versus learning of thyself. What has that spiritual journey taken you on to understanding identity?

I mean, God, Jay, that's like as deep as it could go. That I'm just, I am just a soul that chose this life. And one of the things that I like to do is I like to think that I chose this life. And that immediately takes me from being a victim in my life. Oh, what was me? My father was this way. He did this to me. My mom did this to me.

My teachers acted this way versus me going like, I think my soul chose this life because this is whatever is needed for this path that it's on for, you know, whether it's reincarnation or whether it's heaven or hell or whatever it is that comes after this, I don't know, but I do know like right now I do have this life as Rob Dial. And as I get older, the thing I realize is that my body changes.

I'm not as fast as I used to be. I'm a lot more sore than I used to be. Like my body's changing, but my soul is this thing that is just always there. And so the thing that I've come to realize is that I want to, I don't know if it's gonna sound weird, like I want to unattach myself from this body, from everything around me,

and I wanna try to connect back to what's internally inside of me. And the one thing that I find is that that never changes. Like there's like a truth that's behind that, and truth is the thing that never changes. If something changes there's like a truth that's behind that. And truth is the thing that never changes. If something changes, or if something could be questioned, it's not true. But there's this feeling that feels like truth

inside of me at least, and everybody has their own truth. But for me, my truth is there's something that's behind all of it. And the more that I connect to it, the more peace that I have. Like I listened to a lot of Ram Dass, and one of the things that he said, I was listening to him on the drive over here,

and I listened to his meditation every day, is the only work that you have to do is the connection to your own heart. And so I'm always constantly thinking, what's in the way of my own heart? What material possessions, what things that I want to get her in the way of that. And the reason why I think that it helps is number one,

I've had so much more peace from trying to connect to that. And my relationship with my wife has been so much better because of it, because I'm not blocking her from letting her in. She's experiencing me fully. She starts to be able to open up even more in different ways, I'd be able to experience her more fully. And so for me, it's just like connecting to the thing that's behind

it that feels like the only thing that's truth. Now, mind you, if Rob, 15 years ago had heard this, he would be like, what the hell is that guy talking about? It would make no sense. But on this journey, I've just kind of realized that there's something behind it all. And I want to try to connect that something behind it all and see what it is. And so for me, it's like, I, I like to use myself as a guinea pig. Everything I teach in the mindset mentor and the podcast is all stuff that I'm trying within myself. And I, I use it as almost my own therapy sessions where I'm talking to everybody, but I'm talking to myself. I'm reminding myself of all these things. And what I realized is I realized that after 15, 19 years of personal development,

it's like, you know, personal development is like this cup right here. And I feel like my cup and personal development was overflowing. And then I found spiritual development and I realized, oh my God, it's a lot bigger cup. And it's not even close to being full. Like it's a bucket and it needs,

it's my next thing that I'm working on. So for me, it's like the mindset, the working through, like I'm constantly working on this and trying to get better. But for me, it's like, I want to connect to myself and see what else is in there. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, you made me remember a C.S. Lewis statement

that says, you don't have a soul, you are the soul and you have a body. Yeah. And I remember I used to have that written on a little post-it note and I used to look at it every day, first thing in the morning, because I was thinking about this concept of identity that the first thing 99% of us do when we wake up first thing in the morning is we look in the mirror. Usually we say something like, Oh, I look tired or don't like that spot or God, I put on weight, God, whatever it is.

Right. Now, all of a sudden we're already in the bodily concept of life, this bodily consciousness. And now you live your whole day thinking about the body. What does the body need? The body needs food, et cetera. And so, and that's natural. Like that's not unnatural. That's normal.

Like I do that too. But then you're saying that at the same time, you've got to nurture and nourish and connect with this deeper sense. How do you balance the two in a real world where you have responsibilities, you have bills, you have things to do that are connected to the body, but then at the same time, we're like, but you're not this body. So how do you balance, how do you make sense of these two seemingly opposite pursuits? Yeah, I mean, I'm, the thing that I think I would have thought five or 10 years ago was that the more that I get into spiritual development,

the less motivated I'll become or the most, the less I will want to achieve. That hasn't gone away in any sort of way. But what I have found is that I achieve through a place of, of, it's more like, I'm not white knuckling my way through life anymore. I'm not, I can take action and not be so wrapped up in my fears and my limiting beliefs. And so it's not like, I'm in the world and of the world at the same time, where it's like the soul is here and I get, as I'm speaking to you, everything that I say is also something that I struggle with every single day. I have not mastered this process. There'll be times where I find myself just so in the world

and I'm just like stressed, there's things happening, there's this business where there's all of this, we've got employees, we're hiring people, there's stuff happening. And then I just take a step back and I'm like, it's just like a kind of like a game. Like take a second, like that's, it's all real. That's, I'm not saying that it's not true.

It's not reality. It's not in front of you. It's all there. But behind it all, if I can connect to like a deeper sense that's within me and the soul that I feel is in there, I'm like, hey man, chill out for a second. Like it's really not that big of a deal, right? Most things, you know, there are definitely some things

that are big deals in people's lives and there's deaths and there's things that people have to, you know, be in control of and be able to pay bills and all that stuff. All of those are real and they're definitely necessary, but behind it all, you're still there. And there's this thing that if I can take myself back and kind of like out of my own head and kind of into my heart, which has been a big journey for me, because I was, I'm so analytical and was never really taught like feelings and how to feel

and process emotions. But if I can take myself out of my head and into my heart, what I've always found is that my head is always projecting itself into the future, or sometimes projecting itself into the past. But most for me, like if I sit down to meditate sometimes, it's like all of my to-do list, all of the things that I have to do, and it's projecting itself into the future.

So my brain is always somewhere else. My body, it's always here. And so when I notice myself get stressed, I notice myself get anxious, I notice myself, whatever feelings I might be feeling, if I can take a couple deep breaths and kind of get back into my body, I'm like, it's not that bad.

Like you'll fit, you have overcome so many things in your life, you'll figure out a way to get through it. And so what I've found is that it's not that I don't take the action, it's not that I'm not wanting to achieve more and more things and be able to have more fun and do all of this stuff in the external world. But when I find myself kind of take a step back and kind of be in my heart, is it makes

it a lot easier. I'm not like white knuckling and forcing my way through life. It's almost like I'm allowing life to happen through me. And I don't know how it works and I don't pretend to be smart enough, but things start happening around me that helped me in the process of getting to wherever it is that I actually want to truly go. For all the parents out there, picture that it's bedtime. You and the kids have been busy all day. You know they're tired, but with all that anxious energy, they just won't go to sleep.

This was my kids every night. But I did find that stories calmed their mind and gave them something to focus on. So six years ago I created the kids podcast Bedtime History to help solve that problem. Bedtime History is a series of relaxing history stories that end with an inspirational message. We have episodes about Jackie Robinson, Neil Armstrong, Maya Angelou, and Sokka Jowaya. episodes about Jackie Robinson, Neil Armstrong, Maya Angelou, and Sokka Jowaya. Episodes also include topics like space exploration, engineering, the rise and fall of civilizations,

and major events like the Civil Rights Movement and the Transcontinental Railroad. With over 2,000 positive parent reviews, Bedtime History is one of the top education podcasts. This week, join me and listen to bedtime history every Monday and Thursday on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, welcome to Across Generations

where the voices of black women unite in powerful conversations. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross. I want you all to join me and be a part of sisterhood, friendship, wisdom, and laughter. In every episode, we gather a seasoned elder. But even with a child, there's no such thing

as the wrong thing if you love them. Myself, as the middle generation. I don't feel like I have to get married at this big age in life, but it is a desire I have and something that I've navigated in dating and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations. I'm very jealous of your generation that didn't have to deal with Instagram and Tinder. This is Across Generations where Black women's voices unite and together, you know how we

do, we create magic. Listen to Across Generations podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, from Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenni Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. This month, we're bringing you the stories of disappearing acts. There's the 17th century fraudster

who convinced men she was a German princess. The 1950s folk singer who literally drove off into the sunset and was never heard from again. The First Nations activist whose kidnapping and murder ignited decades of discourse about indigenous women's disappearances. And the young daughter of a Russian czar whose legendary escape led to even more intrigue and speculation.

These stories make us consider what it means to disappear and why a woman might even want to make herself scarce. Listen to Amanika on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, it's, there's this really interesting thing in Eastern traditions. There's obviously this idea of oneness, and that everything's one. And then there's this idea of duality, that there's this side and then there's this side. And one teaching that I've really connected with is this idea of simultaneously one and different.

And it sounds complex, but it's actually not. It's this idea that this feels real and it can be real and it is real. And at the same time, there is a greater reality. So rather than this feeling of everything's one, everything's the same, or it's disconnected, there's real and fake. It's actually this idea that a lot of things are real, everything's the same, or it's disconnected, there's real and fake, it's actually this idea that a lot of things are real, but they're not the full picture.

So the idea that today in LA, it's like saying the weather's rainy and cloudy, but that's not the weather everywhere. So it's my current reality, but it's not reality across the whole world. And when you start looking at life in that way of, there's this reality and then there's this bigger reality, I think that's that zoom out. That's that, let me take a breath. That's that. Let me look at the inner world as well. And I think what

it does is it gives you a certain grace and it gives you a certain detachment, disconnection, but also a recognition of the significance of what you do and the insignificance of it. And both are so needed. I believe what I do is significant, and at the same time, it's totally insignificant. We won't be remembered in a thousand years. And it's so okay.

But we take it so seriously, and if you only do one or the other, like if I only see my life as extremely significant, everything's too high pressure. Oh my gosh, I would, I would, it would hurt me and it would cause me pain if I thought everything I did was of utmost significance. And if I thought my life was insignificant, if I thought my life was irrelevant, that would be really bad for my self esteem.

I'd do anything. I won't be able to function. Right. And so I think it's really interesting because the more and more I'm learning, I'm like, I have to learn how to hold these two seemingly opposite things, but actually they're so connected in symbiotic and they're so synchronous because they both have value going back to which thought has value. The, the collective thought of my life is significant and insignificant is the

most helpful thought because thinking I'm significant or insignificant are both unhelpful thoughts. Oh my God. That's you actually just summarize perfectly what I feel like actually has been going through my head for years, which is what I do, I do believe is so important. And at the same time, I'm like, none of it matters, right? It's, it's this weird duality that we live in. But it's so freeing because it takes so much pressure off

where it just becomes like fun. Like it's, how can I bring more fun into life? Like when did we lose the joy of life and the fun of life that we had as children? When was it programmed out of us? And how can I connect to that child and bring that spirit back in and be like, yeah, I'm going to do some amazing things in the world,

but without it being stressful, just with it being fun and with it being something that I can do in it, and it effortlessly flows out of me. I believe that every single person is incredibly creative, and we are creators at the actual core of us, and a lot of us have lost it, and I lost it for years. And so what I think is how can I make the creativity flow out of me in some sort of way,

and just allow the space for it to happen. And one of the things that happens, and it's not necessarily my goal of it, but when I sit in silence, I get ideas that come through, and I'm like, oh man, I don't know how I didn't see this. And that's where they all are. So it's like a lot of times we're trying to force things to happen, we're trying to force creativity,

we're trying to force ideas. But sometimes when I get there, I'm like, oh man, yeah, this is the thing I've been searching for. And it's just, I think every person just needs to give themselves just a little bit more space to not be on their phone, to not be constantly, you know, and a lot of people have children, their children are up, can you wake up a little bit earlier,

not be on your phone, and just sit in silence and see what comes up. And I think that it's really important for people because what you'll notice is exactly what you're saying, which is what we do, like this life is so important, but it is very insignificant. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.

Like I've, I love watching videos on YouTube about how small the earth is compared to the rest of the universe. And it stresses my wife out. She's've, I love watching videos on YouTube about how small the earth is compared to the rest of the universe. And it stresses my wife out. She's like, I'm going to have a panic attack. Why do you watch this? Because I was like, I like to remind myself that even though it's all happening and I'm

in it, none of it actually truly matters. Yeah. And that's okay. Absolutely. And I think when I'm listening to you, there's this feeling that, you know, I feel like I agree with you. I think everyone is a creator. I do believe that creativity flows when we connect with that. But I think sometimes we feel so distracted from it.

And it's so much easier to pull out our phone. It's so much easier to put on a show in the background. It's so much easier to do all of these. It's so much easier to do all those things at the same time. Like now we're no longer ever with one person. We're with one person, we're both on our phones, and we're watching a show at the same time, and we've got our laptops doing work.

So you've literally got three screens in front of you, five screens in total, and there's so much distraction, right? We know that. How does a person possibly, and I say this out of like compassion and empathy, because it's like, it requires so much from us. Right. Because everything around us is built for distraction. The foods we're eating,

the things we drink and consume, the stuff that's created around us, it's all to distract. So you're fighting like almost what feels to a lot of people like a losing battle. What do you do to get, pick yourself back up? I mean, what's more, what's, what's more important than that? You know, like what's more important than connecting to your true self, to working on yourself. Like I, why do I, like, why am I so hardcore in mindset? Cause I know how many people are so wrapped up in their mindset and their

thoughts and their beliefs and their patterns that they're stuck in. And what ultimately we all want, I think, is freedom. And the way to get through to that freedom is to work on yourself, whatever that looks like for whatever stage someone is in. And I can have empathy for every person at every stage because I've been through so many stages of my process. And I think that it comes back to like, why are you doing it? What do you want? If you're trying to disconnect from your phone, why?

You know, like for me, like I recently deleted Instagram from my phone. I did it last year for a month, felt like it was amazing. The book came out and I was like, I gotta get back on. I gotta promote, I gotta make sure things are good. I recently just deleted it again. And now everything that I post, everything flows through my team.

So it's not like it's just gone, it's just now I just happen to flow, everything flows through my team. Why did I do that though? Was because I don't want to live my life on that phone. And one thing that I noticed is that Instagram was one of the things where I would pick it up and I would just somehow Get to it and I wasn't even thinking about getting to it

And I was like my life is not this little tiny thing my life is everything that's out here And so why do I want to get why did I delete it was because I actually want to be in everything I want to be present with my wife when we have children. I want to be in everything. I want to be present with my wife. When we have children, I want to be present with our children. I want to be the most present version of myself as I possibly can. And I can't imagine that I'll get to the end of my life, be a hundred years old and be like, I wish I would have spent more time on Instagram.

I wish I would have spent more time watching Netflix. You know, and I've been addicted to all of those things. I'm not, you know, above any of this stuff. But I started looking at myself and saying like, is this helping me get to where I wanna be in life? Is it creating more peace in my life? For me, it was creating way more stress. It was perpetuating these feelings

that I'm trying to let go of and trying to work with. And so for me, I think what's important to people is like, if you want to make a change, why do you wanna make the change? And for me, looking at a screen is not as important as actually physically being in front of my wife and giving her what she actually truly deserves, which is 100% of my attention.

Because there's been times where I've not given her 100% of my attention. And as we start to have kids and stuff, I don't want to be a distracted parent. I want to be with them. I'll never sit there and go, well, when my kids were children, I kids were children, like, I wish I would have spent more time on Instagram.

I wish I had spent more time watching Netflix. I just think for me, like the level of, the place I met in my life is I want to be as present as possible because I've worked for things. I've climbed ladders. I've gotten to different places. I've realized none of those things fulfilled me in any sort of way.

And this journey I've been on in the past, you know, 10 years, seven years ago, and we started talking about the Bhagavad Gita and I started meditating a whole lot more and getting into it. I realized, oh, these things are bringing me peace. And the more peaceful I feel, the more that it becomes easy to actually achieve and create the stuff that I want to in life. And so for me, the presence in the peace at this point in my life, things might change, I don't know what it's going to be in five years are actually the things that are the most important to me.

Yeah. It's so interesting. I think we feel like being anxious and being, you know, kind of like busy and stuff will actually create the most effectiveness, but well, you just said this idea of if you start from a place of peace and I think about that, I completely agree with that. If you walk into something with stillness, it gives you clarity, it gives you perspective, you can zoom out, you can zoom in.

If you're buzzing around and moving around, you lose all of that. It's all blurry and fuzzy. And I want to ask you, what's... What's a lesson you wish you learned earlier in life? I think it's that what you're searching for externally, you're actually searching for yourself. I think that's become very apparent to me in the past few years is I was always looking

for somebody to give me love, somebody to give me acceptance, to achieve so that I could be accepted. And what I actually truly think is what I was searching for from everyone else is what I was searching for for myself. So a lot of people that are, like a lot of people I know are people pleasers.

They kind of mean rob, I'm a people pleaser. And it's like they'll change themselves to try to get love and acceptance from somebody else. But that's just feeling, you know, it's like a hungry ghost. It just, the food just goes through the ghost. It doesn't go anywhere. And what we're actually searching for is what we're searching,

that love and acceptance for ourself. And one of the biggest things that I think I've learned in probably the past two years is I was always trying to grow and change myself because there were aspects of myself that I didn't like. And I resented. And what I've changed it to in the past couple of years is I'm going to love every aspect of myself.

So there's some parts of Rob that are beautiful, that are amazing, that love people that want to connect. There's some great parts of Rob. There's some parts of Rob also that are very selfish, that are very judgmental, that are a little bit short, not as present as he should be. Instead of trying to change those and hate those,

I've actually just tried to love them and realized that the selfish Rob that exists was some sort of thing that was a part of past conditioning that came up from needing to be selfish as a child for whatever it might've been, whatever reasons it might've been. And I can love that side of me. And what I realized is that if I try to change it,

it gets stronger. If I love it and I accept it, it kind of chills out. And it doesn't disappear. Like I'm not like, yeah, these parts of me don't exist. It's me looking, like internal family systems is a therapy where you look at all parts of you and who you are and you try to figure out a way to understand how the entire orchestra works together.

You know, when I was writing my book, I was sitting there and I was going so hardcore. Like you and I come from the world of creating viral videos. I would spend so much, like you and I come from the world of creating viral videos. I would spend so much time on every single line to make sure it was perfect, right? Because I wanted to make sure like, I've only got 30 seconds or a minute to get the message to be as clear and concise as possible. Let me try to make it as perfect as possible.

And I used to do a lot of poetry and used to do a lot of songwriting when I was younger. So I was used to making every line as potent as I could. As I was writing this book, I was like 16 rounds of edits in, editing every single piece of it. And there was a part of me that said, it said, why are you doing this? Like, why are you doing this?

And I was like, I wanna write a book that helps people and changes people's lives. I want someone to not know what the Mindset Mentor podcast is, but they walk into Barnes and Noble, they see this book and they're like, interesting, let me read it, let me pick it up. And they read it and it changes their life.

And then I played devil's advocate and I said, but you also want it to be successful, don't you? You also want it to be a New York Times bestseller. So you can have a little badge to put on yourself and say, New York Times bestseller. You want it to be this incredibly selling thing because you know if it takes off, you're gonna make great money for a very long time

if it's a perennial seller. And I thought to myself, okay, can I use that egoic side of me to actually help me create a better book? And I could, and so what I realized is instead of hating that aspect, it's like a tool in my tool belt. When I need to bring that side of me out, I can bring that side of me out and say, you know what, I'm gonna create the best freaking book that I can,

or the best podcast that I can, or the best podcast that I can or the best reel that I can to try to impact people. And so it's not about like trying to force change on myself. It's about loving every aspect of myself, the quote unquote good and bad, even though there is no good or bad, but every aspect of Rob. And if I need to use it, I can bring it up and say,

hey, Rob, I need this version of you right now, but I'm not going to fight it anymore. Yeah, yeah. In the monastery we'd always talk about how the word is anartha, which means unwanted thing that seems unwanted actually needs to be engaged. Like you need to engage it in the service of doing something higher for it to be purified.

That's awesome. Like you can't just cut it out. You can't just get rid of it. You can't just hate it to go away. You can't just cut it out. You can't just get rid of it. You can't just hate it to go away. You can't just shame it away. You can't just guilt it away. It has to be engaged in a higher service, i.e. impacting others, helping others,

improving your own life, improving the lives of others. Because when it's engaged, then it becomes purified. Because if you just ignore it, it will just stay there. And if you try and push it away, it's gonna push back and get stronger. But if you try and push it away, it's gonna push back But if you engage in go, yeah, you know what I do have that in me But I'm gonna use that tendency to try and help this people this person do this That's the only way that it starts to be purified. And so that resonates very strongly great answer

The other one I want to ask you was what's a lesson you have to learn the hard way? Yeah, I think the one that's been the most potent for a long time is you can't do it all on your own. For me, I don't think I was able to trust people for a very long time. You know, I went to a therapist one time and he had said, yeah, you've been you've been neglected. And I was like, no, I haven't been neglected. Like I had food, water, shelter, clothing, all these things. He's like, no, you were emotionally neglected from your father. And and I was like, Oh my god, I that really like rings true. But

what happened was, I had developed this feeling over my lifetime of I've got to do it alone. I can't trust anybody. No one else can do it for me. You know, like there were times when my dad would, even though he was an amazing person, I always tell people like, I'm so grateful that I had the father that I had. He was, he never beat me, he never yelled at me, he never touched me inappropriately,

he would just get drunk and fall asleep. And when he fell asleep, he'd forget about me in a lot of different ways, right? So there was that neglect of like, he would say, hey, I'm gonna come pick you up and we're gonna go fishing, because I lived in Florida. And I would sit on the front porch for an hour,

two hours of my fishing pole and he would just never show up. Right. And so there were, there were aspects of that. And I think somewhere along the line, I developed this feeling of like, no one's going to help me. I have to do it all on my own, which there's a piece of that, which there is some truth. Right. Like I do have to sometimes step forward and be the person to do it.

But for the longest time, I never understood the phrase no man is an island. Cause I was like, I have done everything by myself. And then I started looking around me and I was like, no, I haven't. The universe has always been there, giving me everything that I need and every person to help me in some sort of way and prove and get better.

And you know, as everything's grown, the podcast has grown, my company has grown, all this stuff, we have 30 people on the team. Like, I can't do it on my own. I can't help people on my own the way that I wish that I could. If I was, I'm not 30 people, I don't have 30 days. They can get done in, we can get done in one day

that I could get done in an entire month. And so what's been big for me is, is trusting people to be able to help me and to be able to ask for help, whether that be in a business, but also like going to my wife and be like, Hey, I'm really struggling right now. Like, can you just talk to me for a few minutes? And knowing that she doesn't think like, Oh, he's not man enough, which is a fear that I had like, Oh, if I go to her with my problems, she's gonna be like, he's not man enough. But for her to be like, yeah, let me hold space for you,

let's talk it out. And so I think the biggest thing for me is like, is learning that I can't do it all on my own. It's okay to, it's actually strength to ask for help. It's strong to ask for help. And that I need to be better at asking for help when I do need it. That's a great one. That's a great one. I can relate to it in so many ways.

And yeah, it strikes a chord for sure. And I think so many of us, you know, both of those questions, think about it. You know, what's taken, what's a lesson you learned the hard way? And what's a lesson you wished you learned earlier? And write them down because you might forget it. And you kind of fall back in that cycle often. Rob, we end every On Purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word

to one sentence maximum. Oh my God, okay. And so. I'm so wordy, I'll do my best. Rob, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? I'll give you the sentence, and if you want me to explain it I can but

everything is your fault. Yeah you can explain it. Everything is your fault comes back to like you are the CEO of your life. My very first mentor that I had I paid $500 a month to have my first coach when I was 19 about to turn 20 and we worked together for two years and we had some great calls. I don't remember any of them I I remember one. And what it was, was I had made so many excuses as to why I was late to calls, why I didn't hit my assignments,

why I didn't do what I needed to do. And he had this really tough conversation. I mean, he said, Rob, if a business succeeds, whose fault is it? And I was like, I mean, what do you mean? He's like, if a business succeeds, all 1,000 employees move into the direction they have a successful year, whose fault is it? That the person who orchestrated it, I's like, if a business succeeds, all 1000 employees move into the direction they have a successful

year whose fault is it that the person who orchestrated I was like the CEO, he said, if a business fails, whose fault is it? And I said, the CEO, he said, Rob, if you get to the end of your life, and it's not what you wanted it to be, and you didn't create the life that you wanted to make the money that you wanted to have the success, the love, the happiness travel to places that you wanted to, whose fault would it be? And I said, it'd be my fault. And he said, if you did create the life that you wanted to,

you had the love, the happiness, the abundance, everything that you wanted, whose fault would that be? And I said, it'd be my fault. And he said, the problem with you is you're treating this life as if you're the victim and what you need to realize that everything that happens to you is your fault and that your life won't change until you decide that you want to be the CEO of your life.

I don't know how that would have felt when you heard it at that point. It hurt. Yeah, exactly. With that mindset, like, and I think a lot of people today would find that offensive. They might get hurt by it.

They might, what, how did you transfer that energy to be like, no, this is actually helpful. It's not hurtful. Yeah. I mean, I was a little bit hurt, but there's, I felt truth. I a little bit hurt, but I felt truth. I felt like, yeah, he's right. Because when I look at the path

of where my life was going to go, had I continued to blame everybody else, it wasn't gonna be good. But when I looked at people who I knew who took full ownership of their life, one of my, probably my first mentor without even it being on purpose was my uncle Dan, who was an incredibly successful guy, um,

had a bunch of success, but also was incredibly giving, always so loving. And he never blamed anybody else for when his business failed and he brought it back from, from nothing and rebuilt it. He never blamed anybody else. He was always there for everyone else, but he always took everything as his responsibility. And it's like, not everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault, but whatever it is that you have,

it is your responsibility to work through. Will Smith also said this, right? Where it's like, it's not my fault that my father was an alcoholic, but it's my responsibility to do with it because it's a reality that I have, and I have to work through those things. And so for me, it was like, it rang really true where I was like, okay, it's right. And if my life is going to change, I have to be the person to change it. And that's when it clicked for me.

That conversation I could say is absolutely 100% the one conversation that changed my life completely. Powerful. Second question, what is the worst advice you ever had or received? Fit in with everybody else. Mm-hmm. Good. Question number three, what is your most repeated thought? As of recently is I'm proud of you. I try to tell myself that every single day. My mom told me that a lot as a kid. I'm trying to repeat it to myself. I love that. That's a great one.

Question number four, the number one habit that changed your life, like a daily habit, like something that you practice. Meditation and breath work. Finding space for myself. Love it. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Take your time. One law that everybody in the world has to follow to take five minutes every single day to practice self-awareness. every single day to practice self-awareness. I think that every problem in this world could be solved

if people were more self-aware. I think that all of our problems come from lack of self-awareness. And if people are more aware of our actions, you know, if politicians are more aware of their actions and how it's affecting the entire world, and if parents were aware of how their actions are affecting their children, and as a son,

if I'm aware of how my actions are affecting my mom, my sister, my wife, everybody around me, if we could take five minutes to practice being more self-aware, I think that the entire world would be better. I love that. Rob Dahl, everyone, the book is called Level Up, How to Get Focused, Stop Procrastinating

and Upgrade Your Life. If you don't have a copy, go and grab it already. You'll be able to see my testimonial right here on the back. You're on it. You're at the top on the back there. Make sure you go and grab a copy and tag me and Rob on Instagram, on X, on TikTok with what resonated with you, what connected with you. I love seeing and I want Rob to see as well what you're practicing, what you're trying to I love seeing, and I want Rob to see as well, what you're practicing, what you're trying to put into action in your life.

And I can't wait for you to level up. Rob, thank you again. Thank you, man. For coming on and opening your heart and being so vulnerable and at the same time, giving so many practical insights of how people can move from where they are to where they really want to be and even deeper.

So thank you so much. I appreciate it. Well, thank you, Jay. Like I've known you for seven years now and your inspiration for like doing good in the world. And I can see that the actions that you take are from your heart and from a place of purpose. And it's inspiring for me to always see that.

Thank you, man. I appreciate you. Of course. Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable so a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick does it? It grows where it's soft and green and vulnerable. Hey! It's me Blippi and this is my best friend Mika. Hi! I'm Mika and this is our brand new podcast. Blippi and Mika's Road Trip. The Blippi Mobile will take us to amazing places. And we'll meet new friends along the way. Listen to Blippi and Mika's Road Trip podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Black Effect presents Family Therapy and I'm your host, Elliott Connick. Jay is the woman in this dynamic who is currently co-parenting two young boys with her former partner, David. David, he is a leader. He just don't want to leave me. But how do you lead a woman? How do you lead in a relationship? Like, what's the blue part? David, you just asked the most important question. Listen to Family Therapy on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including Courtney Cox, Rob Delaney, Liz Fair and many, many more. Join me on season three of Minnie Questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your

favorite podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers.