On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Tom Holland ON: How to Overcome Social Anxiety & Beneficial Life Lessons You Can Learn From Family

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Are you ready to embark on a transformative journey filled with inspiring stories and profound insights?  Join me in this enlightening episode where my guest and I tap into a wide range of topics that will leave you with a deeper understanding of life, personal growth, and finding true happiness. Today, I am joined by Tom Holland, widely known for his portrayal of the Marvel superhero Spider-Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Beyond acting, Tom Holland is known for his friendly and charismatic personality, often delighting fans with his playful interactions and energetic interviews.  Have you ever wondered about the value of opinions from the people you truly care about? Discover the profound lessons we can learn from those who have impacted our lives and how their guidance can shape our journey. In a world where many of us struggle with living a false version of ourselves, let us explore the strategies to break free from societal pressures and embrace your authentic self, finding the peace and fulfillment you truly deserve. We challenge stereotypes as we uncover the beauty of embracing diverse interests, exploring the connection between physical activity and mental well-being, walking away from certain situations that no longer serve you, and learn the valuable lessons on self-acceptance and mindfulness, and discover the transformative power of connecting with nature.  This episode was recorded at Soho House Dean Street In this episode with Tom Holland, you'll learn: - How a solid family foundation shapes our childhood - How to be resilient when facing numerous challenges - The importance of taking care of our mental health - How to embrace our own uniqueness - How to channel our emotions in constructive ways - Find alternatives to avoid making bad decisions - Walk away from situations that don't serve our purpose - How to cheer for someone to never give up  Learn to break free from stereotypes by embracing your authenticity. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:46 Growing up in a family with a solid foundation and living the best childhood 06:18 Finding value in the opinions of people you care about and the lessons we can learn from them 08:19 When you see someone who never gives up and continues to work hard, what would you do? 09:32 How to stop living a false version of your life and take care of your mental health 14:24 Diagnosed with dyslexia at an early age and finding a way to overcome the challenges that comes with it 16:17 Acting started as a hobby turned into a beloved creative work 18:34 Being that kid who plays rugby but also attends a dancing class 25:05 Have you thought about releasing anger through sports training like boxing? 30:46 Recognizing that drinking can become a problem and finding the strength to control the urge to drink 41:44 The beauty of being alcohol-free and still have fun with the people around you 45:20 What would you do when you meet a person who is truly at peace with who they are? 49:20 Reconnecting with nature and finding yourself in these nature trips 52:39 Would you love to attend a class about life and how to live on a daily basis? 57:45 Separating your personal emotions and your work emotions to keep yourself mentally healthy 01:02:57 The challenges of relocating in a new place and the intention behind the move 01:09:27 Would you rely on your inner instinct in making a decision? 01:15:35 Sometimes walking out of certain situations can be beneficial for you  01:19:56 If you’re having a bad day, do you play golf? 01:23:45 Have you heard of living a no proof life? Tom tells us how to be more present in these moments 01:36:35 How humility plays a role in how one handles loses and distractions 01:40:31 Let’s talk about sports 01:44:52 Tom on Final Five Episode Resources: Tom Holland | Instagram Tom Holland | Twitter Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, this is Leverand Cox. I'm an actress, producer and host of the Leverand Cox show. Do you like your tea with lemon or honey? History making Broadway performer Alex Newell. When I sing the Holy Ghost shows up, that's my ministry and I know that well about me. That's the tea honey. Whoever it is, you can bet we get into it. My guest and I, we go there every single time. I can't help it. Listen to the LeVehrn COG show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Does your brain keep you up at bedtime? I'm Catherine Nicolai and my podcast Nothing Much Happens, Bedtime Stories to Help You Sleep has helped millions of people to get consistent deep sleep. My stories are family-friendly, they celebrate everyday pleasures and train you over time

to fall asleep faster with less waking in the night. Start sleeping better tonight. Listen to nothing much happens, bedtime stories to help you sleep with Katherine Nicholai on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over. And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that. They were saying, oh look, he's not the perfect happy go lucky kid you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York.

If I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They took the story in the wrong direction and they kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong life. The best selling art in the post. The number one health and wellness podcast. On purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow.

Now, I'm so grateful and so excited because I get to sit down with people that I find fascinating, incredible, thoughtful, insightful. And people who allow me into their lives and into their minds, and today's someone who I've wanted to sit down with for a long, long time. And I'm so grateful that in his busy schedule, he's been able to carve out some time to sit down with me today. I'm talking about the one, the only Tom Holland Tom. It is so great to be with you, mate.

Thank you, mate. Thanks for having me. I'm genuinely grateful the one, the only Tom Holland Tom. It is so great to be with you mate. Thank you mate. Thanks for having me. Genuinely grateful that you're here. I know we've just been casually catching up before this and it's already been so fun. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Yeah, no, I'm excited. I'm excited to listen to you and learn from you

and speak about mindfulness. And I love your programs about health. I'm going through a little bit of like a health journey right now, which I'm loving. So I can't wait to dive into that. And thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely, man. Well, I've always really appreciated how much you've opened up about that

journey in your own way. And I think what's really interesting for me is a lot of people open up after it's solved. Sure. Whereas you've kind of been telling us as things are going on. And I think that's actually quite rare because usually when you're going through something it's kind of harder to articulate it and explain it and have people understand it. And the fact that you're doing that, I think takes a lot of courage.

So I just wanted to point that out straight off the bat. That's really tough and people don't do that. People kind of wait till they're out of it. And again, I'm not judging either approach because it's up to the individual, but I do think it takes a lot of strength to do what you're doing. So thank you for that. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. Yeah, but let's dive in. I wanted to talk about, I know that your family is very close to you.

You're very close to family. Very close. We're just talking about your living in Kingston, which is, I believe, where you grew up. Yeah, right down the road, yeah. Amazing. And what's really interesting is that a lot of studies show that how we were loved or unloved between the ages of zero to five impact the next 15, 25, 50 years of our life and how we give love to ourselves and how we give love to others. And so I was thinking,

do you have a core memory or an experience with your family from childhood. They're kind of in bodies, the feeling you have about them now, or that keeps you tied close to them. I'd say sort of more than a memory is just a feeling that we, I could say, all of my brothers and I had was that because our dad's a comedian, his job only ever existed once we had gone to bed, and our mum worked from home, she was a photographer. So to us as kids, our parents didn't really work.

They just were always home. So we had this amazing foundation where no matter any time of the day, the mum or dad would be at the house. And we felt so kind of solid as a family, which is why I kind of have this dream of one day having kids and putting my work to bed and just kind of being there as a dad, because I really admire how my dad was around, you know, being a comedian is a very, very volatile job. The highs and

lows are so extreme, and as kids, we never saw that. The only version of my dad I ever saw was the happy dad. Let's go to the park. We used to play this game called golf goals where we would go down to the park. There's like this big blue metal goal and we would just fire golf balls into that goal every day and he would give us 10 p every time a ball went in the goal and that was kind of the foundation of our golf and all that sort of stuff.

So for me, broader than a core memory was the idea of always feeling connected and safe within my family unit. And I think a large portion of that is that my mom and dad have always been such a solid team and they've always been there for us. Yeah, wow. Have they, as you've grown older,

have they kind of opened up about some of the challenges that they were going through, that they obviously didn't show you in your family when you were kids, because I can imagine we always talk about this, right? Like being a comedian is extremely difficult because you're making everyone else laugh. At the same time, it's a career path that like you said,

is completely volatile. Sure. Have they opened up as time's gone on and how has that felt when you've gone from seeing your parents always been happy to be like, oh wait, there was all this other stuff going on? Absolutely they have. And it's not even sometimes thing that they've told us.

It's just things that we've grown up to recognize. As a young kid, you know, you're not looking to how's my mum feeling, how's my dad feeling. And now as an older person, you know, those are things I care about. I want to call my mum, because I know it will brighten her day. So that's all part of growing up, I guess.

So seeing the way in which my dad's job affects him or my dad's job affects my mum is something we've all sort of come to terms with and he's amazing at it. I mean, to be honest, I say effect, it doesn't really affect anyone. He's so good at handling it. And which is a lot of why I feel like I am the way I am.

For example, the crowded rooms come out, the critics absolutely hated it. They thought it was the worst thing they've ever seen. And it doesn't really upset me. And I think a large part of my feeling towards that has come from my dad being able to do a gig, the gig not going well, him brushing it off his shoulder

and just right onto the next one. Yeah, well, and first of all, I want to point out as well. So I've been watching the crowd at Droom, and me and my wife have been watching it together, and we're actually really enjoying it. Thank you. We're actually loving it, because I love a show that has mysteries.

That's trying to like get me to figure it out and get me to think about, I'm kind of confused, and I love stuff like that. Like I'm a massive Christopher Nolan fan. Yeah absolutely. So all my favorite movies are Nolan movies, and the reason why I love them is because I have no idea what's going on. Sure. And that's, and you've got to figure it out.

And you've got to figure it out. And I love puzzles and I love escape rooms. And I love anything that I've got to escape. Yeah. I love anything that's got me thinking what is going on here? And why can't I figure it out? Mate, do you know what you should watch? I, I admittedly watch it to go to sleep. If I'm ever feeling stressed or like overstimulated, I watch this guy called Chris Ramsey. He's like a YouTube guy, he's a magician, but I just watch him solve puzzles. He like buys these Japanese like handcrafted puzzle boxes and he just solves them and I've started buying them and they come to the house and you sit down for four hours, put it down,

pick it up and try and solve this puzzle and it's amazing. Are you gonna get it then? No, I'm terrible at that, man. Absolutely terrible. I've had an unsold Rubik's Cube since I was 11. But yeah, so I watch his videos because there's just something about like the sound

of the word, I'm a carpenter, so I love like craftsmanship and that sort of stuff. So I love the way that these pieces are put together. So watching him solve the puzzles, I find so relaxing. I think for so many of us, you know, getting bad reviews, perceptions, people talking about us, whatever that may be, whatever scale we live at

can actually affect us. Sure. And you saying that actually seeing your dad letting him, seeing him shrug it off and seeing him move on actually really helped him, do you think that you've been able to create a bit more of a skill around that now, or is it something that happens naturally for you?

Because I'm guessing that there's a lot of people who are listening and watching going, Tom, that's pretty amazing that you can do that at your scale and your level. But, you know, I'm still affected by that or I really struggle when my mates are something, like I know, the number one thing I hear is like, most people don't chase their dreams

because they're scared of what their mates will say. Let alone what the world will say. Yeah, I was flying back last night as I was telling you, so I was on a plane from DC to London last night, and the air hostess, she was wonderful, and Emma's generic. She said to me, she was like, do you really want to start a YouTube channel, but you just got to block out what your friends are going to say, right? And she was wonderful, and Emma's genetic. She said to me, she was like, do you have really want to start a YouTube channel, but you know, you just got to block out

what your friends are going to say, right? And she was just worried about it, so that it's a very real thing. So I guess have you kind of figured out a little formula for it, or is it just natural because you saw your dad and it's become easier that way? I think it's a little bit of both, really.

You know, I think it's something you definitely get better, right? I'm really lucky that I have an incredibly strong group of friends. Like, one of my best mates just called me up earlier to say he'd seen the fifth episode. And it's like, I know what happens in the show, and I'm still loving it. The people I'm watching it with have no idea what's going on, but they can't wait for the next one. So, you know, I really, really hold high the opinions of people that I really care about.

I'm also really lucky to have an amazing group of fans who are so supportive. They are die hard. They are there day one. And that makes me feel really good. But I do think a lot of my lessons in life have come from my dad and the ways that he can deal with things, things that he hasn't done very well in the past that he's passed on to me. And I sort of, I live by this really, I don't actually know if Christian Bale did say this, but about, I think he did.

I love Christian Bale. We'll say he said it. Yeah, we'll say he said it. We'll say he said it, yeah. But I think the quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me, and if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

That is so good. And I think that that is such a great piece of advice because as a celebrity you live on this stage, you live out there, you kind of give out a version of yourself that you want people to see and that can be the version of yourself that they can have a problem with or they can love. And there is a, you know, I feel like I'm quite authentic in my public persona, but I just try to really care about what my family thinks, what my friends think, what the people in my local community think. I live in Kingston, I know everyone that lives there. I can't walk five feet without bumping into one of my mum's friends. So yeah, so it's something I've been working on. I try my best to not let that stuff affect me. It does. Yeah, of course.

I'm not cold-hearted or anything like that. It does affect me, but I just try to move on and focus on the positives. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What was, did you ever see your dad deal with everything and you thought, wow, that was incredible. That was anything specific that you remember, they're like seeing him like tackle something

and you thought, wow, that really impressed me. Even if it was something really small in hindsight. I think the thing I admire most about my dad is his resilience. You know, he's someone who has had an incredibly successful career in his earlier life. And then later in life, his career sort of plateaued and he struggled. And he's never stopped. He's never given up.

He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books. He has a patron. He has never stopped. He's never given up. He's still gigging to this day. He's still writing books He has a patron. He has a podcast. He's constantly grafting to get to where he wants to be and I think Being a young kid and seeing your dad Continually working as hard as he can to kind of put his best foot forward for me has been a huge drive for my work ethic I'll give it a hundred percent or I give it nothing. And I think a lot of that has come from my dad and seeing him deal with that. The funny thing about my dad, as you talk about doing a bad gig, I must have seen him 20 times, I've never seen him do a bad gig.

He always seems to absolutely rip it. But maybe that's just because we're in the audience. But he, but no, I owe a lot to my dad and a lot of the teachings, I think, he's told me and things I've just witnessed him do. And was there ever a piece of feedback or a rumor or something you saw that did affect you where you actually thought, well, it at least made you stop and go, God, I'm trying to see the positives,

but this one's tough. Like this actually made me have to pause and figure it out. Something that did really upset me, I was in New York, I was shooting the crowd at room, and I was having a really hard time with the job, just because of how taxing it was, the emotional capacity that I was having to get to every day. And I decided to delete my Instagram

because I just felt like I was so addicted to this kind of false version of my life that it was just taking over. I would be on set working, I'd come and sit in my chair and just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And it was becoming a problem. I was just obsessed with it and I was obsessed to find out what people were saying and how people, what they thought about me. So I decided to make an announcement, which unfortunately we have to do, and say that I'm taking a break from social media. And I try to position myself and say, I'm taking a break from social media because I feel like my mental health will benefit from it.

And the thing that really upset me is the press ran with that. And they tried to make out that I was having this mental breakdown. And what upset me was, if I was having a mental breakdown, that's not for you to report on. They took the story in the wrong direction and they tried, they painted again this negative light on mental health, rather than saying, oh, he's doing it. It's okay that he's doing it. So we should all feel okay to do it too. They were saying, oh, look, he's not the perfect happy go, go lucky, kid, you think he is. He's having a nervous breakdown in New York. And I think that that was a really unfair line of journalism, let's say, because I just think it, again,

kind of painted people looking for help in the wrong light, if you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It almost sounds like you were actually preemptively going, I'm doing this so that I don't go in that direction. Totally. At least I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it's almost like I'm proactively seeing that I could end up in a position where,

sure, I might have a breakdown, I don't want to be in that position and so I'm responsibly saying, guys I'm taking a break, in order to protect myself. 100%. Yeah, which makes a lot of sense and actually is quite admirable again. Totally.

And that's kind of what the message of the show is about. Like, the message of our show is that asking for help should be something that we celebrate. Yeah. If you're struggling, if you need help, if you feel bad and you wake up and you go to a friend, a therapist, a teacher, an employee or a colleague and say, I'm really struggling, I need some help. That should be something that we give you a pat on the back. I would love to help you. I'm delighted that you asked me. That, for me, that announcement was kind of my olive branch and the press ran with it, how they ran with it. But to be fair,

it kind of gave me a great drive to finish the crowded room in the way that we did, to like, if you're not gonna listen to my personal message, then you have to listen to the message of my show. So it kind of went hand in hand. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You've reminded me actually when you said that, because I think we naturally today think of therapists or doctors, but you mentioned teacher there,

and I was thinking when I was going to have a really rough time at school once, I remember my walk to school from the bus stop. I'd see a teacher every day that I was really close with at school, but you never talked to your teachers. Walk into school, right? Not crazy person. Yeah, but I was so lonely at the time

that I remember almost thinking like, well, he's the only person I can talk to because of other stuff that I was going through at school. And I remember I started talking to him on the way to school. He his name is Mr. Buckridge. He knows I go on about him everywhere. And he avoids it because everyone's always like,

oh, I changed, we're talking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're talking about it. But it was that exact feeling where I was like, he was someone that I felt I could open to it, that open up to it, that point in my life, without feeling judged, without feeling like he was gonna see me through another lens.

And just having that space to be seen for as a human who is going through stuff by a teacher was a huge, huge win. And so, you know, you are right that that help can come in all different forms. And it doesn't, it doesn't have to come in the ways that we expected to come in. Yeah, it doesn't have to be a professional. Yeah. I go to my friends a lot. And, you know, some friends are better

than others in certain situations. I've got some friends that are very much like pull your socks up and get on with it and then other friends who are like, come here and have a cry on my shoulder. But it varies. I just really hope that that's what the show can do. It's sort of paint this positive picture of asking for help is something to be proud of. Well, that's a great message and I think we all need to hear it. I want to go back a little bit because there's a lot of interviews that you've done, and I've watched a lot of stuff over the time, but like we're talking about, a lot of it's sound bites because it's quick and short and like these entertainment, you know, interviews. And that's why I was really grateful that you took out the time to do this, but you were

diagnosed as far as I read with dyslexia 8.7. Yes. And I was wondering how, you know, a lot of our community and our audience is diagnosed as well, or some of them are not, but they're finding out later on in life. How did that affect you? Or how were you set up for success with that from?

Because as an actor, you've got to learn lines, you've got to read lines. There's a lot of activities that people would assume are quite challenging. Sure. But you found a way and walk us through that a little bit. I don't know. My mom has always been really hands on with our education.

She really wanted us to just do our best. I dad always said, look, I don't care what grades you get. As long as you try your best, you try your best. And that's all that we can ask for. But yeah, my dyslexia, it's really just my spelling. I mean, honestly. It's just that. You know, like, those sort of games that you play at

Christmas, have you ever played, um, the one we have to write down the answers that it's I such a good game. It's a bolder dash. I don't know, bolder dash. Is it, uh, it's basically a game where someone will read out a scenario or, um, right, ask a question and then you have to answer the question to the best of your ability, but you can also bluff and lie. I've never played this game. Okay. And if you write somewhat a believing answer and people vote for your answer, you win. Oh, cool. I've never played it. Which is great.

But when I play it, everyone's like, what does that say? That is definitely not spelled right. Good. But yeah, so my spelling was really the biggest hurdle. Yeah. I worked really hard at school. I didn't do particularly well, but again, my parents said, as long as you try your best, then that's what we can ask for. And acting you started early too, age nine, right? That was something you started pursuing

really early on in life. And I feel, was that something that you were always sure about? There's that famous viral TikTok that always goes around of you. I don't know how old you were being asked, what superhero would you play when you're older? And you say, oh, maybe Spider-Man? And it's like, and I wonder like how much of your acting career do you feel like you've manifested or there was a vision or a focus or is it more just like, this was naturally what you were into and it ended up.

And it grew, where did that come from? I do believe in manifesting actually. I really do. I think what's interesting about my career is this was never something I wanted. I just was a young kid. I loved dancing. My mum would take me to a dance class every Saturday.

And I got spotted through that dance class to audition for a show on the West End. I ended up doing the show. I loved it, Billy Elliot. It was a time of my life. It was such a cool experience. I'm just. Billy Elliot was the top of my life. You know, it was such a cool experience. I'm just by complete fluke. An agent came to see the show the night that I was on. She signed me. She sent me to an audition for a film. I was lucky enough to get the part. All of a sudden,

I was on set with you and McGregor and Naomi Watts and we made the impossible. And to be perfectly honest with you, it was, it was just a hobby. It was something that my mum would let me do on the summer holidays. She was very keen that I kept my schooling up. And there sort of came that time in England where you're in between GCSEs and A levels and you're trying to figure out when I was going through that, you could still drop out at A levels. Obviously now you have to do A levels. And I had that moment where I was like, what do I wanna do?

I could try and stay at school and figure out what I wanna do or this thing that's been a hobby for my summer holiday activity, which is acting. I could try and do that for a living. And I've been so lucky that I've been offered jobs and all that sort of stuff. I decided to go with it. I joined the Brit school because my mum was keen that I didn't go for school for an education,

but went to school to expand my social skills and meet kids my own age. All my friends, when I was 15, were like 30-year-old people, because they're all adults from the business. So I think my mum was keen that I had some friends at my age who are now my best friends today. So I never really wanted this. I just sort of never stopped doing it. And I love it, I absolutely love it.

I love the creativity, I love the building blocks that are required to put a film together. I love the collaboration on set between people from all different walks of life. A film set is a melting pot of all sorts of different people. So I love it, I absolutely love it. And I read something that you said you were bullied for doing ballet, which obviously got you into playing the role of Billy Elliot because it's ballet and tap, right?

Sure. So it's both. So was that tough at the time? Well, were you trying to hide it and then you end up on the West End and you're on the main stage and everyone's seeing it or was it kind of easy to navigate and how did that go down? Because I feel like as a kid doing ballet and tap must have been a little challenging. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't easy, but it also wasn't tough.

I went to a rugby school, so you can imagine like the one kid in the school that does ballet. There's going to be comments here and there. It wasn't the easiest thing in the school that does ballet. There's gonna be comments here and there. It wasn't the easiest thing in the world. There were kids that didn't understand why I was doing it or what I was doing it for. No matter how many times I explained, like I'm the only guy in a class of 30 girls in tights, I was like, guys, this is what you want to be doing.

Like rugby is not it. But I, no, it was tough. But again, it goes back to what we were saying about resilience and keeping your head down and crowded room was the hardest job I've ever had for all sorts of different reasons. And there was a point in time where we were talking about, do we shut this down and walk away from it?

Because of how challenging it was. And I dug my heels in, I put my head down, I was like, no, I'm gonna finish this. I'm gonna see it through. And I think, you learn from past experiences like that. So I really am proud of the way where everyone handled the crowded room. And I think that stems from my childhood, my dad's experiences and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Well, so I've got a confession as well, Tom.

Go on. So I went to rugby school as well. Okay. And I played, yeah, I played for my A team and I was, I was pretty, I was pretty good. I was pretty good. What did you play? Blindside Flanker. OK. Well, now. So I was really into rugby because I went to rugby school

and I love football, but my school didn't play football. And so I was like, no, I've got to be on the school's main team. Sure, sure. So it worked really hard to get on the team. But after we played rugby on a Saturday, my mum forced me to go to dance class and part of it was ballet and tap as well. Although I did not end up at the West End

and playing Billy Elliot, because I don't think Billy Elliot was brown. So, that wasn't gonna happen. So, it wasn't the same path as you. But I also had that experience. That's why I had to ask you, man. Did you enjoy it? I really enjoyed it for the community aspect for it.

Like, I love all the lads that I was there with. They were just a great laugh. And it was really interesting because we'd go from, I literally go from playing rugby straight to class on a Saturday and I'm going there with all my bruises exhausted on the rest of it. But everyone's just so much fun. And it's almost like the rugby pitch was more stressful

because everyone was like, you know, trying to be intense and trying to be this and that. Whereas everyone just happened to laugh at the dark class and we do everything from hip-hop to street to whatever, but yeah, I remember never telling, I think this the first time I've ever spoken of it. It's out there.

It's been a safe space with you. But it's interesting, because rugby is regimented, isn't it? Yeah, I love rugby, by the way. You play a position that is as specific as saying the blind side flanker, you know, when you're a dancer, you're just a dancer. You know, you can fit in however you want to fit in. You know, when you're a dancer, you're just a dancer. You can fit in

however you want to fit in. The teacher can ask you, how are you feeling about that rather than like, you need to get your head down to the left to make a proper tackle. I did love playing rugby when I was smaller. When all the kids were smaller and then there was that time where I came back to school after Balealia and everyone had just become a man. And I was still very much a child. I remember we played this school called Trinity College. And it was my first game back. And I was playing Scrum Half. I came on the second half.

And it was a violent game. It was not a gentleman's game of rugby. And I was standing there kicking to us, we were receiving. And I remember thinking, as long as the ball doesn't come to me, off of the kick, I'll be fine. I need the game to get going and then I'll be fine. I'm scrum half, relatively safe position, a good playmaker. As soon as he kicked the ball, it's coming straight towards me.

I'm trying to catch it. I can hear the boots running towards me. I fumble it, knock on. The game goes on. I start playing well. I assisted a try. And then I don't remember what happened or how it happened. But there was a really tough kid on our team who will remain nameless. I haven't spoken to him since, I don't know what he's doing.

But he went into a fight with some kid on the opposing team, and it was really quite ugly. And then the kid's dad came on the pitch to tell off this boy that was on my team and the kid on my team knocked out his dad. No. Like proper. It's the first time I've ever seen someone hit someone and I couldn't believe that a kid who was, how old are you? He must have been 16 at the time.

He's one of those 16 year olds that would look older than I do now when he was 16 and I just remember hearing the noise. He cracked this dad on the jaw, hearing the noise, he like cracked this down on the jaw, hit the floor, then his whole big fight broke out. I'll not fight or I'll step to way. I'm just off like what's going on. Yeah, it was wild. That was the last game rugby I ever played. It was against Trinity College. Oh my God. Yeah, it was really intense. Wow. That was intense. Yeah, that's how intense it got. My last game was similar, but not watching a fight.

So someone ran, it was a big game, and I was playing really well that season, and everything was going really well. And someone ran into a rock, but with their elbow, which is obviously illegal. They ran in, and they elbowed me right there. Like, right, Bill, it's on this side, and right below there.

And the next thing I know, I get up and I'm like kind of feeling a bit aggressive. Are you cut as well? Well, I didn't notice and then blood starts to drip and I was like, that's when you freak out because you're like, oh God, I'm like, and there's a lot of blood just dripping. So I get subbed off and the nurse on the side

just puts a bit of glue there, like just stick it together. And at that time, you don't really notice it and you're thinking, you're all right. And then literally an hour later, it's just getting thicker and thicker and thicker. And I'm ending up with this, run to the hospital on the way home because my coach was just like, suck it up. It's fine. You'll be fine. They're like, if you were any later, you would have had nerve damage.

And like, personally, potentially lost your eyes, so whatever it was, and they had to like glue it and a little bit of stitches or whatever it was. And I, for the rest of the month, I walked around with my, like, you know, I literally hanging over and I looked like I'd gotten to like the worst fight. I walked into a store and everyone would kind of back off and stuff. And it was just really uncomfortable. That was my last game, Marugui. That's why I just remembered that. But yeah, it was, it was, it was intense, but it was great. Like you said, it was great regimented

discipline training. I love training with my mates. I love playing. I love, as a young man as well, like having an outlet to release the energy that I had. Totally. So it was good in obviously in a way that wasn't trying to hurt others.

But that's not so great about boxing. Yeah. It's like boxing is such a great release. You know, you see these young kids, like young kids who are angry, who need to let something go, like I'm punch a bag for an hour like that will make you that will calm you down I love how boxing is such a great thing for young for young people to to release that sort of anything Are you boxing do you box? I love boxing. It's been a few years since I've I've done any sort of training

I used to go to this great gym in in New York with church street boxing Mm-hmm. I love it there to this great gym in New York with church street boxing. I used to love it there. I had a great pro. You could sort of spar with him because you know that he wouldn't batter you because he could control himself. I went to one sparring session, just a general session. And I got absolutely back there. Yeah, it was tough, but I love it.

I love the sport. I'm a little bit sad as to like how the sport is being run right now. Right. But I do love the sport and I admire the sport. I'm a little bit sad as to how the sport is being run right now. But I do love the sport and I admire the athletes. I think they're amazing. What's your take on YouTube is boxing and all that kind of stuff. Because it's obviously bringing a lot of attention to the sport. To be fairly honest with you, I don't really mind it. I think it's quite fun.

I think if you're doing it for the right reasons, there's a great opportunity to raise some money for amazing charities. And I think a few of them have done a lot for charity. I think it's really great. I think, yeah, you know, my brother, Paddy, would never have been watching boxing. And now he loves it because of his favorite YouTubers of boxing. So if it's good for the sport, it's good for the sport. I sort of don't really mind.

I think it's funny, to be honest, because you sit at home watching it, you're like, I could do that. You're getting there and do that. You're like, well, I don't really want to do honest. Yeah, because you sit at home watching it, you're like, I could do that, I could get in there and do that. You're like, well, why don't you? And you're like, well, I don't really want to do that. So we might see you in Creed 4 then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll do that. We'll do the acting boxing. I'd love to do a boxing movie. Yeah. I think it would be cool to do a boxing movie, but where the fighting is real, like we've ruined that. I wouldn't necessarily be in that film, right? But I do think that you could

make a really interesting film where the outcome of the film is determined on the outcome of the real fight. Has anything like that ever been done, like racing or any... Can you... I'm just trying to... Not what I know of. No, no, no, that's what I'm trying to think. It could be really cool. Yeah, wow. But yeah, I love boxing movies. I'm a sucker for it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which ones... Which ones are movies. I'm a sucker for it. Yeah, we're trying to, we're trying to your favorite. I think Rocky 2 is probably my favorite. I remember when we were in Billy Elliot, we had this room called the Billy Room and there was always a Billy backstage while the show was going on because the show was so labor intensive, it was very dangerous, there's lots of moving parts, there's lots of acrobatics. It wasn't too uncommon for a Billy to get injured and then there would be someone upstairs who would replace that Billy and we would just hang out upstairs and there was an Xbox and a television and all that sort of stuff and one of the DVDs that we had the two DVDs we had was step up to the streets my favorite film of all time and Rocky 2 and I've must have seen that film 40 times how many times did you practice the dance in the mirror? Oh man, I've got the whole dance down, right?

Can we see it? No. Yeah, no, I love that film. Yeah, absolutely love that film. Yeah, I'd say my favourite, so Rocky was my favourite because I'd watched it with my dad. And Rocky... I struggled between Rocky 3 and Rocky 4 because I loved Mr. T.

And it's 4, right? That's 3. And I loved Ivan Drago as well, which was 4. And they were both just such great movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just, yeah, it's such great entertainment. Even though there was nothing like real boxing. Yeah, nothing at all.

Nothing at all. Nothing at all real boxing. But then I remember watching real boxing. When I was growing up, it was Prince Nassim. Oh, man. Yeah, my dad was a big fan of his. So I remember watching him a lot. I love his style.

There's a video of him working with the, I guess he's just, it's like a swinging bag and he is so effortless. Cause Canelo's got a great head movement, but he looks like he's thinking about it. Whereas Nazim is just living the dream, just he's so fluid and I love the way he used to move. Yeah.

And I love how we would enter the ring. Me, I would over rotate and slam on my face or something, yeah, he was brilliant. He was wrestling meets boxing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He must have been a nightmare to fight. He must have been like, he's beating me and he's embarrassing me.

This is really tough. Terrible. What do you think of Lemme Chenko? Did you see his last fight? I haven't, no, I didn't see it. That's an interesting one. Go on, tell me, I didn't see it at all. Well, I think the general consensus is that he won,

but it was given the other way. Right, right. He is my favourite boxer. Right. Because of his history, his background in dance, he was like a really talented boxer and then I get, I don't know if this is true, but his dad sent him to go and study dance

for sort of five years or something like that. For his boxing. For his boxing, which is why his footwork is like on another planet. There's loads of examples of where he's fighting people and they look up and he's just gone. He's behind them. So I really admire him, but his most recent fight he lost.

How did it go against him? Was it a vote? It was a vote, yeah, yeah, yeah. They went against him. So I wonder whether they'll fight again. Yeah, I guess that'll have to. If it seems like this isn't a conspiracy theory for you. But that's the problem with boxing though. Like will'll fight again. Yeah, I guess that'll have to if there's it seems like this isn't a conspiracy theory for you That's the problem with boxing though like will they fight again? Yeah, you know because it's a tricky

It's a tricky business unlike the UFC where you know if they want to fight they'll fight That's what I love about it. I took my brother and my cousin to the UFC the other night and That is such a savage sport. It is that is Yeah, it's terrifying only don't want that to be a movie in a real one That is such a savage sport. It is. That is, yeah, is terrifying. We don't want that to be a movie in a real one. I've seen the warrior. I was just talking about fame. That movie's so good.

The warrior is one of the most underrated movies. That movie's so good. It's a little ridiculous. The idea that they have like six fights a night getting ready for one final, but I do love that film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really good movie.

It's a really good movie. Oh, well, okay. All right. So we know there's a boxing movie coming somewhere. Yeah, there's gotta be It's a really good movie. It's a really good movie. Oh, well, okay, all right. So we know there's a boxing movie coming somewhere down the line. Yeah, there's got to be one down the line. Absolutely. Yeah, and we want to see you work your way up. And I mean, we might see you like, you know,

actually go do it for real. Sounds good. Yeah, imagine. For charity, maybe. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Did you know that temperature is one of the most important factors in improving your sleep quality? When you wake up in the middle of the night or feel extra groggy in the morning, temperature

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the EU and Australia. One of the things that you mentioned recently was that you gave up drinking about a year and a half ago. Yes. And you said it was the hardest thing you ever did. Yes. And I wanted to know what was so hard about it for you. Why was it so hard? It's interesting. I didn't one day wake up and say, I'm giving up drinking.

I just, like many Brits, had had a very, very boozy December. Christmas time, I was on vacation, I was drinking a lot. And I've always been able to drink a lot. I think I get my jeans from my mum's side in that thing, I can drink. And I decided to just give up for January. I just wanted to do Dry January

and all I could think about was having a drink. It's all I could think about. I was waking up thinking about it, I was checking the clock, when's it 12? And it just really scared me. I just was like, wow, maybe I have a little bit of an alcohol thing. So I sort of decided to punish myself

and say, I'll do February as well. I'll do two months off. If I can do two months off, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. Two months go by and I was still really struggling. I felt like I couldn't be social. I felt like I couldn't go to the pub and have a lime soda. I couldn't go out for dinner. I was really, really struggling and I started to really worry that maybe I had an alcohol problem.

So I decided that I would wait until my birthday, which is June 1st. I said to myself, if I can do six months without alcohol, then I can prove to myself that I don't have a problem. And by the time I had got to June 1st, I was the happiest I've ever been in my life. I could sleep better, I could handle problems better, things that would go wrong on set, that would normally set me off, I could take in my stride, I had so much such better mental clarity,

I felt healthier, I felt fitter, and I just sort of said to myself, why am I enslaved to this drink? Why am I obsessed by the idea of having this drink? And I would look back and recognize that I would go to events for work, and I can't enjoy myself until I've had a few beers. And I just felt so much pressure. And this is one of the things why I've sort of distanced myself from the rugby community, because so much of it is about

how much can you drink. Let's get you as drunk as possible. And it's honestly been the best thing I've ever done. A year and a half into it now, it doesn't even cross my mind. I've found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic. One of those are also really healthy. I found amazing replacements that I think are fantastic. One of them are also really healthy.

I found this one beer that is full of electrolytes and it's, you know, the carbohydrates in it are long lasting energy. So like having a beer is now actually like a really healthy thing. I'm really lucky that all my friends are super supportive about it. I've never run into that scenario where my friends are like,

I'll go on, just have a beer like you'll find. They've always sort of really supported me and I don't want to be that person that my friends are like, I'll go on, just have a beer, like you'll find. They've always sort of really supported me and I don't wanna be that person that's saying to people, you should get sober, you should get sober. If I could encourage someone to drink less, then that's great, but I don't wanna start getting into the world of, you need to stop drinking because it's not for me to say,

I went on my own little journey, I'm really enjoying it. I'm delighted that my mum's also has also given up, she's loving it, and it's been amazing. I can't believe the difference that I feel from not drinking. I feel amazing. That's amazing, man. I love hearing that.

And I love hearing that it's been great for you, right? I think that's the point, not everything has to be like, look what I did, you can do it too. It's kind of like, no, this is just what's been great for me. Do you think it was partly that attitude for you at least in the beginning where it's like, well, I can drink, I drink a lot. It comes from my mum jeans and it doesn't affect me. And then all of a sudden you realize, well, wait a minute, it's more than that. Because I think there is that. Like, I was like that as a young man as well. Like, for me,

it was, it was easy to drink. I didn't drink daily. For me, I drank a lot more socially. Sure. And I love playing drinking games with my mates. Yeah. That was really what I enjoyed the most probably. And for me, when I quit, I could just quickly see how it just got me into doing things I would never do if I wasn't drunk. So for me, for me, it was more that. But yeah, I wonder for you, did you find that, there's a really fine line between like,

I know I can drink a lot and then all of a sudden, you're kind of a d- not addicted beyond that. No, I'm addicted, man. I'm happy to say a lot. I was definitely addicted to alcohol, not shying away from that at all. I think anyone that wakes up and has it not wakes up. Anyone that has a beer every day

is probably got a little bit of a problem. But yeah, you're right. I would drink and drink and drink and drink and then you would just reach that moment where you're like, well, I shouldn't have had that last beer. And you wake up the next day and you have a terrible headache and you're suffering. I bought one of those rings that will tell you about your sleep.

Yeah, or a ring. Yeah, and it was amazing because I couldn't sleep. I was like, why can't I sleep? I'm working 14 hours a day, I'm doing two hours in the gym, I'm eating really healthily and I can't sleep. What's wrong with me? I bought this ring and it was booze. It was completely affecting my sleep.

And since I've given it up, I can sleep anywhere. You know? It's also interesting as well going on nights out and having a great time as the sober person. And then getting to that point in the night where people start spitting in your ear and everyone's like, I love you, man. I love you so much.

And you're like, yeah, brilliant. I love you too. I'll see you tomorrow. I'm going to bed. I love being that person now. I love seeing my friends on the golf course at 8 AM in the morning, feeling fresh and ready to go.

And they're sort of crawling out there carrying. So yeah, so I'm over the moon, so I'm sober, I love it. Yeah. For anyone who is listening right now and is going, Tom, I love that for you, I want to do it too. Like they're listening going, I'm having too much every day, I can notice some of those things, but I'm just stuck and it's hard because we know that addictions that way, we know that this is heavy, it's not easy.

But if someone is watching going, Tom, tell me, like, what did you do to even get started? How did you have that courage to say, I'm going to do January, I'm going to stick it here, were there any moments where you actually fell back and then had to get back on the horse again? Like, just walk us through that a little bit more for anyone who is watching going, Tom, mate, I wanna be in your position in like six months. I didn't fall back on it. I have done in the past,

like I've had periods of my life where I'd given up drinking and then gone back to drinking, but this time, I don't know, it was just different. I really worked to sort of change my mindset. I really asked myself, like, why do you drink? Why are you drinking? And a lot of the time my answer would be to feel more comfortable in the social environment. And I just put myself in those environments and just would force myself to be there. I'd force myself to hang out and go to a club,

or go to a bar, go to a dinner. And we weren't avoiding those places. I wasn't the beginning because I didn't feel like I could go and not have a drink because of the stress of it. But then after a while, I sort of was like, mate, you've got to pull your socks up here and you can't just live in your house all the time. You've got to go out and enjoy yourself. And if you're only enjoying yourself because you're drinking, then you really do have a problem. But I just changed my mindset.

I found really good replacements, things that I could sort of attribute to having a beer. I often found with me, most of it is just the ritual of cracking something open and sharing it with friends and drinking it. Whether it's sparkling water or a beer, I now can't, I don't associate like, I don't see a difference. Yeah. I don't think it's different for everyone.

I had a great support system. Jack is one of my best mates and we travel all over the world. He doesn't drink and doing it with him was a really helpful experience for me. My brother is always on the road with me. He was very supportive. And yeah, I just really set my mind to it. I was like, I really want to do this. I want to prove to myself I can do it.

And then once I'd felt the health benefits and started really feeling like my full self. So I'm like, oh my God, this is the best. But do you not drink? I haven't drank for 17 years. No way. Congratulations. That's amazing. Yeah, it's incredible.

Wow. So one of the best feelings in the world and it's my biggest worry when I was about to quit was like, how am I going to hang out with my mates? That was one of my biggest worries. Yeah. My mates knew me as the guy who was like, first to the game, lost to get out. That was me, the clown when I got drunk, like life at the party, that kind of guy.

And then all of a sudden I decided I wasn't gonna drink anymore. I was like, crap, I'm gonna fit in. And then I remember I went into the corporate world for a bit. And I didn't drink and I was like, God, am I gonna miss out on opportunities and networking? Like, you know, all the guys afterwards are like, gonna get drinks and I'm like, I'll come, but I'll have a water, I'll have a soda, whatever it is.

Sure. And what was really interesting for me is not relying on drinking, made me rely on qualities and skills I had. Sure. That were actually better. Yeah. So now that I couldn't drink as an excuse to hang with the lads, I was bringing out parts of my personality that I probably would have just hidden away

or had no idea what to press. And all of a sudden you were actually getting respected and liked for who you were, rather than the person who you were when you were drunk. Sure. And actually that worked in the workplace and there was no one at the workplace going, RJ doesn't drink, so he's not getting promoted. Right. It wasn't like that. People were like, oh yeah, really like hanging out with J.O.

He's a really good guy or whatever it may be and I was still gettin' the same opportunities and I was still gettin' promoted at work and whatever it was. And I think that's what I'd like to remind people that don't feel like your career or your work is gonna suffer. Even for you, I'm sure as a, you know,

with your career path, you have to be a part, is you have to be at events. Of course. And the fact that you're able to do that now without having alcohol and it doesn't sound like it's negatively impacting your career path you have to be a part is you have to be an events of cool and the fact that you're able to do that now without having alcohol and you don't it doesn't sound like it's negatively impacting your career if anything is the opposite. I honestly cannot believe like the amount of times I've sat down with an actor that I really admired or sat down with the producer or director and be like oh you know well I don't drink anymore and I don't drink ten years you like oh my god and I've had so many insightful conversations with people like yourself where you've heard their story, their reason for giving up, and there is a wonderful

community of people, and I love it. I love being a part of that community. I'm really proud to be a part of it. I hope that I can meet other people and chat to them about it, because it's really nice. It's lovely to be like, let's go get a lime soda together. Yeah, let's get a juice. Yeah, let's get a smoothie. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is true. It's true. And it's really interesting because they, I can't remember, I'm trying to remember, there was this blog that came out

years ago. I can't even remember it now. And there was this girl on Instagram who was getting a lot of likes and a lot of comments and a lot of attention. And one day she just disappeared, like she stopped posting. And everyone was just like, all the comments were like, where are you, what happened? Are you okay? What happened to you?

You know, everyone was frantic trying to figure out what happened to her because they loved her, they were following her and all the rest of it. And what they didn't know is that it was built by a team that was trying to show that what people didn't notice is that in every picture she posted, she was drinking. And it was a made up. It was almost like original AI that was made up to prove the point that you can love someone and you can think it really close to them and you can think their lifestyle looks amazing, but actually they've got to drink in every picture they post. And you didn't realize that and alcohol problem. So there was

no real person who died. But the point was that this, your friends could be struggling even when they're posting these beautiful lifestyle pictures, but are you aware? Wow. And are you conscious of how much it affects you? And I can't, I can't remember who built that picture. Well, that, that, I think that's one of the problems with alcohol is that if you came out with alcohol right now, if alcohol wasn't a thing and you like, I've invented this drink that is going to make you like, either really happy or really aggressive or really stupid and we're going to just sell it to the masses. People will be like, now make your funky juice like we don't want that, that sounds terrible. And it's one of those things because it is socially acceptable. The addiction side of it, the bad sides of it really do fly under the radar. And that's really interesting. I tell you

something, I do love about being a non-drinker. I love being the designated driver. I love being that person that makes sure that everyone gets home. I don't know, I just, I like being a dependable person. I think I'm quite dependable. And I really like that thing. And I saw this crazy YouTube video once. This was years ago of a guy that went to a bar, he got drunk

and he drove home and he crashed his car. And I don't know if this is real, it could have been fake, but it's really impactful. Basically, what his friend had done was set up the room as if he had been in a coma for like 10 years. And his friend wakes up hours after the crash and his friend is there and he had all like old makeup on to make him look older. And now I'm thinking about it, there's no way this could have been real because how would they have been able to pull that off? But he basically is saying to him like,

you've been asleep for 10 years, everyone's missed you, like we can't believe you're awake, this is amazing. And it shows like how a stupid decision like driving drunk can affect the future of your life So I do love being the designated driver. That is something I enjoy seeing my friends have a good time I'm like don't worry Tom will take you home. Yeah I

Used to love being the designated driver and until I realized that next girlfriend just had me do that because I was the one who didn't do that Right. That wasn't a fun doesn't make a driver But I've always been that guy since Because so I lived as a monk for three years. Yeah, amazing. And when I came back after that, obviously I never went back to drinking alcohol and everything. And so, but I went back into the workplace.

And I remember everyone would always open up to me and give me advice, but it's what you're saying. When someone was drunk, they tell me their whole life story. Next day they'd wake up and go, Jay, you actually remember what I said, drum, I remember everything. They're like, please don't tell anyone. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I love that part where I was like, I was able to be there for people. Totally. Just hear their stories. 100%. And someone that had context the next day, because if they told someone else who's drunk, you'd both not remember, then it'd be gone.

No, I think the benefits that you've just pointed out of good sleep, good health, great mental clarity. So silly. But there's a couple of things I want to point out for everyone who's listening, just as takeaways, because Tom makes it so seamless when you're talking about, it's really beautiful as well, but one of the things you mentioned was finding alternatives, and during my monk life, we always talked about how there was, there was something that we called the higher taste, and he was saying, you can never give up a lower taste unless you add a higher taste. Sure. And so there has to be a switch, there has to be a replacement.

There has to be a replacement. There has to be a replacement. And the fact that you found alternatives, I think that's half the battle. Sure. Because most of us are trying to take something out of our lives. And then you're just trying to fill it. Yeah.

And then you have to go back to what you had before because you're not finding a replacement. So that was beautiful. And the second thing you said which I loved, which was having this conversation and dialogue with other people, someone who's one year ahead of you, someone who's 10 years ahead, someone who's one year ahead of you, someone who's 10 years ahead, someone who's 20 years ahead, who's gone through that process,

and they're open and honest and vulnerable about, you know, I did have a weak moment, or you know, what this was really tough for me. And I think having those communities where you can talk about these things makes a massive difference. So if anyone's struggling, I hope that those two things can kind of

give you the support you need. And again, it goes back to the message of the show, is that you should ask for help and you should feel empowered to do so. Yeah. But tell me about your monk life. Like, that must have been amazing. It was fantastic. I've always been so tempted to go away and do one of those retreats where,

you know, you go to somewhere like India and you go to those places where you don't speak for a month or something like that. Like, that must have just been the most enlightening experience. Now that you've said that, when you want to go, I'm going to take you. Please, because I would love to go. I met a guy, I was on holiday earlier this year, and he had just got back from a retreat. He did two weeks where he didn't make a sound

and was just explaining to me how eye-opening it was. Yeah, no, I mean, to me it was one of the best experiences in my life because even the stuff that I did then, I was 22 years old when I did it. Even the stuff that I did then, I don't even know if I'd be able to do it anymore now, but there was such a energy you had as a 22-year-old. Sure.

You just opened to any experience and wanting to try it all out. Amazing. And I think for me it was because, and it comes back to the people that have done things, when I was 18, was when I first met a monk. I never really knew what monks did or any of their practices.

But I met a monk who I write about in my book who just blew my mind because he was the first person I met that I felt was at ease with himself. And when I was 18, I'd met people who were rich, and famous, and beautiful, and powerful, and all this type of stuff, but I don't think I'd met anyone who was truly happy, and content, with themselves, not happy like,

oh, I'm so happy, life's amazing. I mean, more like happy with who they are. At peace, with who they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And for some reason, at 18, that kind of like was an arrow straight to my heart where I was like, that's real, like I want that. And it's just, it's so hard to explain

because everyone's like, well, how did you know that at 18? And I was like, I don't know, it must have been how powerful he was. It's kind of like, it's kind of like you wake up when the sun's out and the lights out and you just wake up because you feel that energy. And I felt it through him and then I went to university and I'd talked to him and I'd meet him in the summers and Christmases. But I just decided, I was like,

I want to do this because I'd met someone who I felt had emotional and mental mastery in a way that I'd never seen before. And so when I went out there and whether it was the meditation training or whether it was the simplicity training of the lifestyle or whether it was the teachings and the values that you had to live by, I just got so, I got so much from it that I honestly believe that anything that I'm good at doing today is because of what I learned during that time. Yeah. And so anything I'm good at today is because of that. Do you think that you found what he had? Yeah, I believe so and I would say that. Well, has. Yeah, I believe so, and I would say that. Well, has, yeah. He's right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I still see him every year.

Imagine. And he still has it. Yeah, yeah, it's like swag, like it doesn't go. Yeah. He still has it. And yeah, definitely, definitely, I got a glimpse into it. Obviously, he's been doing it for nearly 30 years

and I only did it for three, but you still get to a glimpse of it. And you get an experience of it, so you know that it exists. And I think that's half the battle too, like even with your sobriety, it's like, you just need to know it exists. Totally.

And then you're like, wow, there's this other side. 100%. And even though it's a challenge, and even though I'm still trying to be more mindful every day, and I'm still working on myself, because it's, of course, it's a nice, yeah, it's an ongoing thing. Yeah, I know it.

And I take a lot of friends and, I know this. It's an ongoing thing. Yeah, I know. And I take a lot of friends and people I know and retreats there because just a couple of years ago, I took someone that I love to one of the caves in Rishikesh. So one of the things I love about caves is that they're equally dark and silent. Yeah. So it's almost like the first time,

like we could be silent in this room, but it would be silent, but the silence of a cave. It's just different level Yeah, and so when you go in there, you can't see anything either So you can't even see yourself. So you're so deep into the cave that there's no light from the mouth of the cave There's no life from the mouth of the cave. Oh, I don't know about that No, you hold hands, man. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no those experiences that you actually get to experience real stillness and real silence and real, real disconnection from everything around you. And then you can actually listen to yourself.

Yeah, it's interesting. I would love to do something like that. Something that I find myself doing a lot is, if I see a beautiful landscape or something, I will try and see if I can find an angle of it where there's nothing man-made in the view. Because you know what it's like, like you see a beautiful hill or something and there's a telephone pole in the middle of it or a lamp post or something. So doing something like that where there is nothing but just

Mother Nature and the silence and being with yourself, I'm obsessed with nature. It's like one of my biggest passions. I'm absolutely like this new R-planet show has just come out. One sitting, I've done the whole thing. So I would love to do something like that. So the next time you go in, I'll figure it out. No, where's the place I love nature too?

I just took my, me and my wife just went to Bali. Oh, I love Bali. And yeah, and it was unbelievable. We went white water rafting and it almost felt like Jurassic Park. I was just waiting for a dinosaur head to pop out. And it was just beautiful. It was so lush. It was so natural.

The water falls everywhere. And another place that I've loved nature wise, India, of course, we mentioned. But Iceland. I've got to go towise, India, of course, we mentioned, but Iceland. I've got to go to Iceland a few years ago, and my friend was filming a documentary out there. And so I got to experience it with the documentary travelism.

We went to a real glacier and we went to... Amazing. And it was incredible to just... It was the first time I felt like I'd landed on another planet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I literally, I was like, this looks like nothing I've ever seen before in my life. I, I'm on another, like I could have gone into outer space and landed on another one.

There's a reason why every single space film, Iceland, is the first on the list for locations. Oh, is that the... I don't know that. I think Interstellar probably shot in Iceland. I'm sure all of those films, you know, because you could do, you could do Mars, you could do Venus all in, you know, in Iceland. I would love to go. I don't know, we were thinking about doing some climbing and I'm not sure about how I feel about glaciers

and walking across them and just falling and never being found. Yeah, we walked across them and obviously there were teams there. Sure. And then they had an expert and they went down into the glacier, like they went into one. And it was really scary because while we were walking on the glacier, we've got those little boots

are called the ones with the kind of like, the little prongs. Yeah, yeah. I forgot what they're called, but anyway, we had those on and... Crapons. Crapons. Crapons.

Crapons, okay, Crapons. Thank you, Jack. And so we were wearing these crampons and literally it was like three steps further and you would have fallen and you don't see it. And you would never be found. I never, you would never be found. You would never know and it would be like that movie, was it 126 hours? Yeah.

The guy had to soar for his own arms. 126 hours, mate, in 10 minutes, the ice would just, yeah, no, that's a bit too far for me. Well, if you went's a bit too far for me. Well, if you went with a group of experts and all the rest of it, they were... Yeah, but you've seen the documentary. Sometimes the experts go out and it's one way story. They don't ever come back, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you got to be careful. I'll show you some videos later, though, because it was pretty... I love to. Yeah, please. It was pretty spectacular. It was really amazing. No, I loved that with your journey with Sibri.

And again, the other thing we were talking about this earlier, going back to it was you decided to take a break from acting because you were doing this role is really tough and challenging. And you're like, you need some time. And again, you were saying that that was missed can strew down. Just before we dive into why you needed to take a break and what was challenging about it, I just wanted to just, if you wanted to give

context to that and you don't have to, but if you wanted to clarify what you meant and what was going on there. It's only a break from acting because I'm an actor. It's not like the acting itself. I just have been so lucky that in my life, I've been working so much. I just wanted to take a break. I just wanted to be in one place for a while. I wanted to be with my friends, be with my family, move into my house. So it wasn't necessarily, oh my God, I need to have a break from acting because it's too much. I just needed to have a break from traveling and working and also I've done so much

of my growing up on the road. I needed to do a lot of growing up at home, paying my water bill, paying my council tax and sorting out my bins and all that sort of stuff that they don't teach you at school, which I think there should be a lesson. I think there should be a lesson at school that's called life, which is like laundry,

basic cooking, like I didn't realize you had to pay for your water. I just thought that was a luxury of living in England. Yeah. The water comes out the sky and then it comes out your tap. I was so behind on my water bill, I didn't realize. I'm up to date now, don't worry. So, yeah, I just wanted to take this break. And it's a shame, again, talking about the press and how they can spin things.

It's a shame that this year off has come after this incredibly hard job and that they kind of ran with this idea that, yes, the show did break me and yes, it was difficult, but I could have gone back to work. I was always planning on taking this break after this job. So thank you for giving me the time to sort clarify that. I am loving having time off and going back to work is something that isn't really on my radar yet. I'm just loving being with my family and my friends and enjoying the fruits of my labor a little bit and traveling and seeing the world. Because we get to see the world for work, but it's different. Going off of your own accord and seeing these places and meeting people is what I love. I'm very social, which is one

of the things I found so difficult about giving up alcohol is because I was like, that's my key to my social life. And then I realized I was like, no, you're just actually, naturally, a really social person. The alcohol is just an additive to that. So get rid of it. So yeah, so my year off has been amazing. I'm loving it. I'm six months, seven months into it now. I have a job to go to, but you know, obviously we're going through this writer's strike right now. We're unsure as to where we are. I'm hoping that, you know, the writers can make a deal and we'll be looked after as they should be, because it'd be great to get back to work, but I'm in no rush. I'm really loving some time at home.

Yeah, because how old are you now? 27. Yeah, and so if you've been working since you were nine, or at least, you know, later on into your teens, I think, yeah, yeah, I think people forget there. And I coach personally coach personally, a lot of musicians who go on tour a lot. Sure. And I just finished a 40-city world tour for my second book. And we did like 40 cities, maybe, in like 75, 80 days, maybe.

Like, it was intense. And we went all over the world. So we did like 15, I've never done anything like that. Yeah, so it's 10. So it's 10 cities. Yeah, so it's 10 cities. Yeah, so it's 10 cities.

So it's 10 cities. Yeah, so it's 10 cities. Yeah, so it's 10 cities. So it's 10 cities. Yeah, so it's 10 cities. did 15 cities in the US and then 25 cities around the world. And so we did everyone from Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Melbourne. We did three shows at the Sydney Opera House, Brisbane. Did Singapore did five shows in India, did Dubai. And it was amazing. I had one of the best experiences in my life. At the same time, I was reflecting on my music clients

who have to do 150 shows. A lot of them, pull out of doing their tours, a lot of them announce kind of like you're saying I took a break. A lot of them will announce and say, you know what guys, I can't, I can't do it anymore. And it's really interesting because I messaged some of them straight away saying,

I always could understand why you needed that. Now I actually have actual empathy for you. 100%. Because now I'm on the road and I can see how displacing it is. And I'm older and I have a certain set of skills that helped me with that based on my monk life and all the rest of it. But I can imagine if you've been touring since you were 15 years old, which is what a lot of these artists have done. Like you just said, you grow up on the road. Sure. And then all of a sudden, you're like,

well, who am I in? Who are my friends? And what is my life? And now everyone that I pay is my friend. And that's the only friends I have. Totally. And so it's really interesting how when you get a little glimpse into someone's life.

And then on my last show I had was in Barcelona. I had that last show. Yeah, it was amazing. And the night before my last show, live nation who was doing my show there, they also do a cold place tour. And they were like, do you wanna come to cold place? What's cold place?

I'd love to watch cold place. So in the night before, to watch cold place, unbelievable. They did four sold out shows of 65,000 people each night in Barcelona. And I went towards the fourth night and Chris Martin and the crew were just unbelievable. And then I found out as the 89th show,

and I was thinking, gosh, it is so hard. It's just so hard and all their families are with them and traveling with them and all the rest of it. And so I want to touch on that with you as well that walk us through because I've talked about this with actors offline, and I don't think I've fully done it online, and so if you're willing to go there, I'd really appreciate it.

Sure. When you're playing a role, I think as a viewer, we massively underestimate how hard acting is, especially when the role is the kind of role that you're playing in the crowded room. Yeah. I think we just underestimate as a viewer, and I'm fortunate enough to know, enough actors offline,

where I've had these conversations before, whether it's people who do method acting or whether it's people who, you know, really try and get into character, like you always hear about the stories of like how Jared Leto, when he was becoming the Joker, was sending people rats and human feces in their male, like literally lie. If you send me human feces in my male, there'd be trouble. I wouldn't be putting up with that. You and Jared Leto in a boxing match, sir.

Yeah, there'd be a boxing movie then. But you know, that idea of like, I think as viewers, we don't, it's what I'm saying, it's like, when I went on tour, I was like, I get it. I get it now. As viewers, we don't get it because we don't really hear about the deep process

that actors go through of getting into a role, playing someone with multiple personalities. Like, you know, that, I don't know, is that, is that tough don't know, is that, is that tough or is it, is that not, am I getting it wrong? And that's not actually the tough part. You're definitely not getting it wrong.

I think it's just different. It's case by case, you know. There are people like Jared who dive into their roles and they do things like sending people dead rats and stuff like that. And they think that that's what they need to do. I've always been really good at separating my onset emotions from my personal life emotions.

As a young kid, I used to really heavily rely on my personal emotions to get them to come across on screen. And I just found it really unhealthy. I just found that like the line between my life and my character's life would be blurred. And ultimately, at the end of the experience of making the film, I would be a very different person, but not because of my experiences as Tom, it would be because of my experiences as my character. So I decided very early on to find certain techniques and certain ways to get into those emotions from a sort of technical point of view. I never sit on set and think about my my mum getting sick or might or never speaking to my brothers again or something like that. I never blur the lines with my personal

life and my work life. I always leave work at work. There are jobs like the crowded room that are particularly taxing. Getting to those emotions on a daily basis is really difficult and really tiring. But you know know, it's probably somewhat like cold play on that 89th show. You just dig your heels in, you realise you've got a job to do, we're all wonderfully well paid. There are people that work far harder for far less. I recognise how lucky I am. So I'm like, if I need to cry today and tomorrow and the next 50 days in a row, I'll do so. Yes, it's difficult, but I think your question, I'm probably the worst person to ask that because I think I have like a really healthy outlook on how I achieve my emotions on set.

But I have work with people that shut their bedroom door and just dive into the character and are pouring through the script every night and are in character all the time. And I admire them. I don't necessarily think it's the healthiest way to go about it, but I've always been really strict on myself to leave my work at work. Obviously I come home and read the script and do all of my prep work, but I'm not. I'm leaving the character at work because it's too,

it's too much, especially when you're playing a character like Danny from the crowded room, like you can't bring that into your personal life. It's tough. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah. Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters.

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or wherever you get your podcast. Yeah, yeah, I mean that but I'm actually glad I asked it to you either way because what I'm actually hearing is you did it early on and you saw it wasn't healthy. Sure. And so you actually found another way. Yeah. And it's really interesting because a lot of people may not have found another way or that is their way and that is their method. And so it actually is interesting hearing it from your perspective because you're actually saying, yeah, I could have gone down that road. Sure. I could see the dangers with it.

Right. And obviously it depends on the roles too. Sorry, you're going to say that. No, it's just, it's my acting coach. Ben Perkins was my acting coach on my first film. And that film is really, really emotionally intense. And we started off by doing things like, can you imagine, you know, your mum passing or can you imagine things like that? And I would

cry instantly. And he was the one that actually recognized at a point, this is too much for this young kid to kind of take. So he devised these exercises where him and I could kind of have these fake arguments where I was as a 12-year-old, oh, maybe I was older than that, 13-year-old could recognize that they were exercises and I would allow the emotion to kind of come from these kind of acting techniques, let's call it. So it was actually Ben that was the one that switched my mindset. I can't take credit for that. Yeah. So you live in LA? Yeah, so I moved to LA five years ago, and I moved to the state seven years ago,

so I was in New York for the first two. What about the New York way? I was on 23rd Street near Flatiron. Okay, nice. So yeah, it was good in Manhattan and moved with my wife. We've been married for seven years together for 10. Fantastic.

And yeah, it's just been really interesting, mate. It's like, did you ever end up moving? Did you ever live in LA or a tour, or in the US or a tour, or have you always been in London? So, what we were talking about earlier, I've kind of lived all over the place. I've lived in LA, I've lived in New York, I've lived in Atlanta, you know, I've lived in Cleveland, which was amazing. Yeah.

So, I really like spending time in the States. Yeah. We just obviously crowded room with you in New York New York. We moved to Tribeca. We started off in Midtown. Midtown for me was a bit of a nightmare. It's all the schools are. So I come home from work and I come outside and it's like all the biggest Spider-Man fans you've ever seen. It's like the worst. We moved down to Tribeett to this amazing apartment, which was really lovely. We were very lucky to be down there.

But how do you find L.A.? So you know what, it's really interesting, is when I moved to New York first, and I found New York to be just a bigger, crazier London, a bit more intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I loved London. I'm a London boy through and through.

I went to university here, my family's still here. My wife's family's here Everyone amazing and so but I enjoyed New York my wife didn't love New York and Also at the same time I I started spending more time in LA for work and my wife and I just like fell more in love with each other when we were there And so that's what it was that drew us there It wasn't really everyone's always like like, oh, was it career? I was like, to be honest, we went there for a month for work and we rented an apartment because we're gonna be there for a month.

And we're living together there and we just loved living with each other there. Home is where the heart is, really. And so we were like, all right, we love it here. Why don't we pack our bags and move across. And so we went back to New York two months later, we moved over to LA. So it wasn't even, you know, and now we've been there for five years. And the truth

is that I was really intentional when I moved somewhere. So while I'm building my purpose and my work and my career, which I absolutely love what I get to do every day, and I could never have dreamed of doing what I do to them. Super grateful. But at the same time, I was really intentional about building community and family. And it was like an actual thought process where I was like, as well as you're always building the people you know at work, you're always building relationships,

you're hiring employees and team members and everything. At the same time, I've got to think about actually making friendships because in London, I got all my mates, I got my best man at my wedding, I've been mates with Rods for like 17 years. Like, I've got people around me, but in LA, I don't have that. I don't have any family, any friends.

I don't know anyone. And so I've really made an effort. And now after five years, I can honestly say, you know, obviously not in a wonderful way, but the pandemic did help deepen some of those friendships because I was stuck with those people. So I only could go deeper. Made some really good friends.

Nice. And so I feel happy there. And I feel really connected to my purpose there, and at the same time I love coming back to London, and hanging out with my mates. And so I've, and me and my wife made a decision when we moved, that we would never say we lived anywhere, we would just be allowed to go wherever we wanted to go. So whenever my wife misses London, she's back on a flight to London, she'll come live here for two months and come back whenever she wants. Amazing.

And it's the same for me. And that kind of like not having a rule around, you know, obviously we're lucky to have that choice. That's an amazing luxury to have. Yeah, of course. And yeah, I share the same kind of outlook on it, you know. I couldn't really say I live anywhere. I sort of live where the work is

and when I'm not working, I'm either here or in LA. And I'm so lucky to be able to sort of call the world my home. I just go wherever the win takes me. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But that's glorious, man. Yeah, man.

Yeah. It's been good for me. Yeah. It's been good to me. And I think because of the work I do, it very clearly lets people know whether I'd connect to them or not. I feel like my work is so obviously one way. Sure.

That it's very easy because not everyone wants this in their life. So it's kind of easy for people to be like, no, I'm not going to make any effort with you. I'm going to make lots of effort with you. And so it kind of makes it very easy because my work is me. Do you find because of what you do and your skill set and your experiences and your life as a monk that people unload on you a lot?

Yes. Like you might meet a new person and they're sort of saying, well, I'm feeling this way and I would love to try and get to a place of enlightenment. That must happen to you a lot. Yes, yeah, a lot. You can have the train station

going on a plane. It can happen anywhere in the world, yeah. And do you welcome those conversations? Do you like having those sorts of conversations? So I think it depends where we are. Sure. And it depends who it is. And I always say to people as a disclaimer

that I don't want to give you the belief that I can solve your life in 30 seconds. Yeah, right. All that I could ever solve your life for you. Totally. Just to be really clear, and I always say that to people because people are like, Jay, tell me what I need to do. And I'll be like, look, I just want you to be fully aware

that I'm happy to share some insights with you. But I don't have the power or gift or magic or ability to transform your life. And nothing I can say in 30 seconds, I don't even want to take that responsibility on because we should really think about this, like you should reflect on your life. Like, especially when people are making big decisions where it's like,

should I break up, should I move country, should I do this? And I'm like, we're not solving this in 30 seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a bigger conversation. And I like people, that takes the pressure off me, but it also takes the pressure off them. Yeah. Because it's not even about me.

This is about the fact that that person needs to make a really important decision. And they're putting all the pressure of their life on that moment. And actually, I'm saying, well, let's just take it off. And here's a few things I want you to reflect and think about. And I know that will help you and you'll figure it out.

And so yeah, I welcome them because I appreciate that I don't feel that I'm the one holding space. And I don't believe that I'm the one who has the power to hold space. I believe that the universe holds space. I believe that energetically that space is held for others. And I don't feel I'm this powerful human being who's the one that everything rests on.

And it has the answer to everything. And I think that's what allows me to be liberated from it. Yeah, and I'm not like, I also don't put the pressure on myself going, God, I better say the most perfect thing to this. I better change this person's life. And I can't. And I think once upon a time, I better say the most perfect thing to this. I better change his personal life. And I can't. And I think once upon a time, I probably did feel that way.

When you're immature and you're in amateur in your work, you almost feel like you have to have all the answers. And I'm like, you know what, I don't. And it's fine. And actually, people really appreciate it. You just chat to them. And so, yeah. And again, I'm always happy to listen to someone when I can.

Obviously, they're sometimes, and I'm like, rushing late for a blame or... Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to get through a car or a lamp, and I can't do it. Sure. But I always stop and say, hello, give someone a hug and all that stuff. Yeah, of course. So I don't have the answers to the question, but... No, absolutely, it does. I guess what you're saying about making decisions, something that I am constantly battling with myself is the inner battle between my gut and my brain. And that sounds really weird. No, it's real.

I go with my gut a lot. I'm very, very, I think a lot of the decisions I make in life are very sort of instinctual. I don't like to be bombarded with evidence and facts and all that sort of stuff. I just like to feel a certain way about how I would like something to sort of transpire, can be taking a film, accepting a script, doing a business deal, buying a house,

like it's all sorts of different things. Through your monthly life, did you feel like you would rely on your kind of inner instincts rather than like getting the evidence of this is going to make you this much money, or if you do that, these are the risks. How do you, where do you stand with that sort of thing? Yeah, most poorly worded questions. No, you know why, making me think. No, no, no, no, mate, mate, I think both, I think this has been such a conversation that is what a question sounds like in a conversation.

And I think I've asked you fairly poorly worded questions today as well, but I think that's what real, come here. Oh, I'm going to shut. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wrong. But then like me, I've got a question one. Right. But no, I think I get what you're saying. And if I go on the wrong track, let me know. But living as a monk, you're trained to understand that everything exists in a certain mode.

And so I'll explain what that means. And so in the monk philosophy, there are three modes. And the modes are the mode of ignorance, the mode of passion, and the mode of goodness. And it's said that every decision, every thought, every action, every intention, every relationship can be in the mode of ignorance, mode of passion, or mode of goodness. And the mode of ignorance is where your relationships or any act is based on insecurity or fear. And when you're doing something out of fear or you're doing out of insecurity or you're doing out of pressure,

that's considered the mode of ignorance. And energetically, we all feel that, right? You know whether you, I would know whether you were being forced to do this interview today. Sure. Out of some sort of fear or some sort of whatever, maybe. The mode of passion is where you're doing something because you want a certain result.

You're doing it just for the reward. You're doing it just because it's gonna get you what you want, it's gonna get you to the goal. Okay. And so that's considered the mode of passion. And again, energetically, you can tell that when someone has an agenda or someone on something out of you.

I've come here to get my point across on something or totally. And then finally, the mode of goodness is the energy of like, I feel really at peace, I feel really ease. This feels aligned with my values. And therefore, it feels like the right decision. And so we were trained to sense energetically, whether things felt like the motor ignorance, motor passion, motor goodness, which was a really helpful framework. Because sometimes things were really hard to just sense without knowing where it sat in terms of a characteristic. That's so interesting. And so that was really, really helpful at the time. And so I find that I'm the same as you where

I make decisions energetically. Yeah. But I think having moved into the real world again, I felt that I had to start getting used to understanding other elements. Kind of what you'd mentioned earlier, which I loved, which was like, I wish they had a class on life at school, because it's like, you haven't paid your bill, and you know, there's football players not being their taxes or whatever, maybe, and like, that may be for different reasons. But anyway, you get the point there.

There's some things that you just don't know. And so, what I've started to do, and I've said this a few times, and that's what's a little formula that I use, when I sit down with someone, whether it's business, whether it's relationships, whether it's work, even whether it's this, the first thing is always energy. That's my first gate that I want to get through.

And if I don't feel energetically aligned with someone, then already there's no future here. Like it's not going really well. And then the next thing I look at is strategically, if it's business, so if it's personal, it's only energy, but if it's business, I look at, well, I like this person energetically, do I think they're strategically aligned with where this has to go? Like do I think they can actually implement this? Do I believe?

Because a lot of people have great energy, but then they don't have to implement anything. And then finally, look at, well, does the money align? Does the monetary value align with the energy and strategy? That's been my business version of what I love to learn as a monk. So what you're saying then, that is a combination of both. Correct. Allowing your gut, your kind of allow yourself to pursue further the opportunity. Yeah. And then you take a sort of mental look at it to be like, I'm accepting the opportunity from an emotional point of view. Now I need to see if it makes sort of logical sense. Correct. And if it doesn't, then we're going to stop there again. Right, right, right, right. Exactly. So I've found that more useful for me because I found that energetically,

I can get excited about a lot of stuff. Yeah. And the same. Yeah. And I'm that more useful for me because I found that energetically I can get excited about a lot of stuff. Yeah. And the same. And I'm that kind of person. And again, I never want to block that. At the same time, I think we have to become more selective with our opportunities and know when to say no and know how to manage stuff. And that's at least helped me.

Sure. So again, I'm not saying anyone has to live like that. No, that's what I'm saying. It's interesting. It's really interesting. I am very much like, go off my guard. Yeah. I'll tell you what,'s really interesting. It's really interesting. I am very much like, go off my gut. I tell you what, my mum is an unbelievable judge of character.

Wow. And I think she might have without knowing what you're talking about, where she can pick up on people's energies. Because we can meet a new person as a family. We've met this new person. Three of us could love this new person and another three could not like this new person and my mom Will be like no No, don't like that person and then within six months all of us like

Remember that person that we have really good friends with for a little bit She's really got a keen eye for people that we would get along with Mums are like that now that you say that all my mates who let me down when I was a teenager like that. Now that you say that, all my mates who let me down when I was a teenager, my mom could have pulled it out. Yeah, absolutely. Every time. And I was like, Mom, no, they're my best friend. I'm never going to leave them. They're like a brother to me. And they're like seven months later, the person stab you in the back. And then you're like, oh, mom, like, you know, but the good thing about moms is they wouldn't judge you for it. Yeah, they're like, look, I told you, but yeah, to make you understand.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it's interesting that you've been able to hold on to that. And I love that. Do you feel like you were asking me about moving to LA? And I think what have you felt? And there's a part of you that's obviously wanting to be back in Kingston, be back to who you are. Have you felt that there's been parts of yourself that have been challenged?

I don't feel sitting with you today that, you know, I don't know you before. I don't know. You after I've only met you today. So I can't judge who you are or what you enjoy. All I can say is that when I'm sitting with you today, I feel like I'm sitting with an authentic individual and your energy comes across very easily. Thank you.

Do you feel like you've had to hold on to that at times with opportunities, challenges, the industry, or is that all stuff that we kind of make up in our heads and it's actually just be yourself and you're fine. I really don't know the answer to that question. I've definitely walked away from a lot and I think had I not walked away from certain situations, let's just put it at that, I would be a very different person today. I've been really good at keeping in touch with my friends, keeping my family close, listening to the lessons, not getting caught up in the

Hollywood hype. Like, I really am a massive fan of making movies, but I really do not like Hollywood. It is not for me that the business really scares me. I understand that I'm a part of that business, and I enjoy my kind of interactions with it, but that said, I am always looking for ways to kind of remove myself from it, to kind of just live as normal a life as possible. Today doing this is a very rare thing for me to do, like in London, to come in and speak to someone about my life is something I would not typically do, but because I'm a fan of yours and I was keen to kind of hear what you had to say and chat to you today. I felt like this would be a safe space for me to do that. But yeah, I definitely think it has been an ongoing thought which is don't lose yourself.

I've seen so many people come before me and lose themselves and I've had friends that I've grown up with that aren't friends of mine anymore because they've lost themselves to this business. And I just am really, really keen to focus on what makes me happy, which is my family, it's my friends, it's my carpentry, my golf, the charity that my mum runs, like that is the stuff that makes me really happy

and that's the stuff that I should protect. My relationship is the thing that I keep most sacred. I don't talk about it. I try my best to keep it as private as possible. We both feel very strongly that that is the healthiest way for us to move on as a couple. So I do try to keep as removed from it as possible. You'll never see me at an award show, but I don't have to be at. I'm never going to a red carpet event that I'm not in the film of, you know, I don't want the attention when I don't need it. I love the spotlight, I love the pressure that comes with it.

Just watch that tennis documentary breaking point. I would see in the highlights. You got to see it, it's amazing. I never realized how brutal tennis was. I've always been a huge tennis lover. I am now absolutely in awe of what those athletes go through. But there's a quote from Billie Jean King that's on the stand at her stadium in New York

that says pressure is a privilege. And that is so true. Like, oh my God, feeling pressure on a daily basis in the capacity that we feel is such a privilege. I love feeling pressure. I feel like I thrive under pressure. The best golf I've ever played in my life is when there are cameras around and people are watching.

I just think that that is a real amazing thing to be able to experience. So I enjoy it while I can, and then when it becomes a bit much, I kind of become a bit of a recluse, and I disappear, I come back to Kingston, I play golf, I play tennis, I hang out with my friends,

and my family, do the pub quiz, and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So yeah, so it is something I actively try to do as I get older, it only gets easier. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I can relate to that in my small way or in my world where a lot of my friends think like I'm in LA, like always at events, always at pies. I'm not, I'm like in bed by 9.30 p.m. And I only live there because it works for me in the world that I do and what I do.

And I enjoy living in LA, but I don't live there for Hollywood. And I think that's often the perception as well, when I'm like, oh, you're all Hollywood now. And I'm like, well, no, not really. Like, I don't really go to all the events and gatherings and stuff, unless I need to be there, or I'm connected to a project.

So I relate to that. What you mentioned a few things there, but if I had to ask you as Tom, when do you feel most yourself, like when do you feel most connected or and what are you trying to reconnect to if you're like, well, I know what it is, but I'm still figuring it out again. I think when I feel most myself is to do my relationships, I'm going to leave that and not talk about that. Absolutely. But I think the other thing, and this is such a stupid thing, but it's when I'm playing

good golf, like there's something about how golf is the most humbling sport in the world. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter how much money you've got, how successful you are, golf will batter you no matter who you are. And I love, that's what I love about it. You know, it's such a leveling sport. I love going to a golf course and meeting new people

that I've never played with before. Playing around a golf, I struggle when I don't play badly. Like I've got a bit of a temper and like, you're supposed to have 14 clubs in your bag. I currently have nine and you could probably guess why. But I just love being outside. I've always been an outdoorsy person. I love being on the golf course. I love my mates. They all love being outside. I've always been an outdoorsy person. I love being on the golf course.

I love my mates. They all love playing golf. There's just something about the challenge of shooting lower than your lowest score that really kind of takes my mind off of the work. The interesting thing about golf is that you could be having a terrible day. You could be really upset about something. And if you play really well, you completely forget about it. If you play really badly, you then are about it. If you play really badly, you then are playing badly because of what's happening outside of golf. It's like a really weird kind of catch 22, I guess.

But I love it. I think when I'm playing good golf is when I feel most like myself. Yeah, wow, that's it. Yeah, that's a unique answer, but I get it. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, I've only ever played golf like twice in my life. Right.

And I totally get the point of how humbling it is, is horrendous. No matter how quickly you pick up other things and life, golf is not one of those things that you pick up that easily. Oh, mate, you can sign the biggest deal of your life and go out to play golf to celebrate, and it will ruin your day.

Like absolutely ruined. Don't go out to play golf to celebrate. No, ruin your day. Like absolutely ruined. Don't go out to play golf to celebrate. No, never go out to celebrate. No. Crazy. Do you still play any sport? I love playing football when I'm back here. Okay.

So that's one of the things. My mates know that when I'm back in London, we're going to play a game football. Where do you play? Well, we'll just, we, we'll just play on like a seven-side pitch, we're a five-side pitch like close to Northwest London, which is where most of my mates are. So like, stand more, eduware, Watford. That's like where all my mates are. And so we'll just go rent a pitch, kick a ball about.

I'm not any good anymore. But I still got the full kit in the side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You love it. I always look dressed in fresh, bro. I've actually got Neymar's kit, like from him. Oh, wow. So you best believe I'll show up to five aside in his full kit.

I love it. I love it. Is this side by him, too? No, that's not so good. No, that's just, to five aside in his full kit. I love it. I love it. Is this I'm too? No, that's not so. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no us and there was a bunch of brits that were working at the resort. So they kind of joined our team and we literally did England versus Portugal. It's a full-size pitch. We did 60 minutes, 30 minutes each way. I'm fit. I train every day. I actually love my fitness. I really, really like I'm into it. By the end, I could not make five paces without my legs cramping up. They are so fit. These football players. It's unbelievable. And we won, and it's so funny how the first 10 minutes of the game was really friendly, like soft fouls, sorry mate, like your free kick, and by the end it was savage. It was really intense.

Well, at least you won, though. We won. I got an assist. It's actually a glorious assist as well, actually. I just pinged the ball over the top. My brother made a run and it bounced and he managed to get his foot to it and he chipped the keeper and scored. But there's no footage. There's no footage. No proof. Yeah, no proof.

Yeah, no proof. I sometimes think when the whole no proof thing, like we had the craziest experience of my life the other day, I'll tell you about it. Because our lives are so crazy, like there's no, why would I lie? But the other day, we went swimming with killer whales in Mexico. I said the other day was last year And it was one of the most humbling experiences of my life. There's no proof of it

There's no evidence because it was so off the cuff. We weren't planning on doing it So most people I tell her like you definitely didn't do that but we were in we were in Mexico and we were on a boat and We just so happened to see this pot of Orca. Jack, my security guard thought it would be a good idea to jump in. He jumped straight in, flippers on, goggles on, and we were driving to keep up with the whales because they were kind of following our boat.

So by the time Jack had jumped in, he was like this. He was like 100 meters away and you could see him and the whales were like swimming around him So I'm just trying to freak out because he's a good friend of mine and he's a security guy So I said to the guy like excuse me sir Can you turn around and go and get my friend because we now can't see him anymore like he's gone We found him we got him back in the boat and he sort of said like, lads, you have to get in. There is, it's unlike anything you've ever seen before. My brother Harry's like googling whether or not

it's safe to swim with them. And it's sort of, the general consensus online is don't go swimming with killer whales. You can, there's never been a recorded tack in the wild, but they are wild animals. No one's going to report. There's a big as a bus. And also, Jack's giving it like,

don't worry, time I'll be there. I'll look after him. Jack, what are you going to do, Ray? Like, what's this whale the size that eat me? So anyway, we put the flippers on, put the goggles on. We find the whales. They're sort of interacting with the back of the boat. They're clearly curious.

And I just thought like, I guess it goes back to what you're saying, the mode of ignorance. I just was like, I'm it goes back to what you're saying, the mode of ignorance. I just was like, I'm going to try it. See what happens. I jumped in, my brother jumped in, Jack jumped in, we kind of came together with 30 miles out of the coast. So it's literally like dark blue water, nothing below us. And to my relief, the whales had gone.

We couldn't see them. So I'm sort of thinking, well, that's actually a bit of a touch. At least I can say I jumped in and they have gone. But then Jack said, look down and we look down and it came from beneath us. And what has been such an interesting experience for me was as soon as I saw the whale, I wasn't scared anymore, because I could just tell that it wasn't going to eat me. I don't know how to explain it, but you could just see from its body language. I remember it so vividly, it swam up to us. It was maybe 10 meters below us, and it was

kind of motionlessly just looking at us, and then it kind of rolled on its back. It did this weird thing where it kind of put its head like this and you could see it's eye like we were having this crazy like moment and then it just swam off and it was gone and Then for three hours afterwards, I couldn't speak. I had the biggest adrenaline dump I just basically was a Sleep, but it was such an amazing experience to sort of meet the apex predator of the world and it kind of look at you and just

swim away. Most people don't believe me because there's no evidence, but it was, I think about it now, and then it's not so funny as well. I see these, I slide our planet, there's more footage of all his hunting and another way in which they hunt, there is no way I would do that again. No way I'd get married again. But yeah, it was amazing. My name is Leverene Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of the Leverene Cox show. You may remember my work-winning first season? I've been pretty busy, but there's always time to touch incredible guests about important things.

People like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court what they're doing is wrong. What they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And I can only hope that dobs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, you and I both know what it took

to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always measurable, is because

people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the LeBern cox show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi, I'm Ellie Kemper. And I'm Scott Eckert. And we're here to talk to you about the things we love on our new podcast, Born to Love. Each week we'll have a guest join us to talk about something, anything in the world that

they love. And of course you and I also we get to talk about the things that we love. So it's a love fest of sorts. Total love fest and to give you guys some background. We met in our college improv troupe. We were hilarious. And here's a fun little fact, Ellie. When you were filming the movie bridesmaids,

you were an actual bridesmaid in my wedding. I was at the same time. I can tell you about something I loved this week's got late on me. Full of rollers. For my own mind, you're not talking pool noodle. Oh my gosh, no, thank you for clarifying. Listen to Born to Love with Ellie Kemper in Scott Eckerd, a new podcast from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hearing you explain it is like, you're so present.

Yeah. Like you can tell that you're just, you were so present in that moment. Like you stop thinking about like, well, you know, if I tell this after that no one's gonna believe me or whatever it is, you're just like, wait a minute. Yeah.

You know, nature makes you present like that. And that's what I love about nature, is it's completely unbiased as well. Like if that whale wanted to have a snack, then you know, it's not looking at you going, I'll know, but that's a famous person. I've got to leave him alone. Or it just, you are at one with mother nature. We're in the middle of the ocean. There's nothing we could do.

And we just were able to enjoy it. Somewhat maybe like being in the cave, like you were saying. It was just about us and this whale, my brother and I were holding hands, but then as soon as it presented itself to us, any stress just dissipated, and it was just this unbelievable experience, and it was so leveling, it was so humbling,

that it makes me feel like I can take on certain things. So it was honestly, even thinking about the experience down my heart is racing. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it was it was honestly, even thinking about the experience down my heart is racing. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, it was wild. Yeah, it was a cool experience. That's unbelievable. That's an incredible experience.

And it is different from the cave though, because I do think it's different when you're with another living being. Sure. And so that's what I found. Like my closest experience to what you're talking about is I went trekking with, well, looking for mountain gorilla in Rwanda last year.

Oh, that's hot. Have you been top of my list? I would love to. Okay. Yeah, we should do it. I would do that again any day because it was unbelievable. So you're not again, these gorillas are not like in a park or something. No, no, no.

They're mountain gorilla. They're in their world. And you go and look for them. And there's no tagging devices or any tech. There's people who've watched the gorilla for so many years that they know where their droppings are, they know where families hang out, they know what their routines are. So depending on what time you're going out, there's someone who's just around them who's calling their friend, calling your guide saying, walk this way, you've got to go. Exactly, just to make

it very, very clear that the guriders being treated very well. So you're literally looking around and you could be on the lookout for them for like two to six hours. Wow. You may not find them. You're just hiking. So you're love that.

You might not find them. You might not find them. So we found them in two hours. One group that we heard about, because you go in smaller groups of like 10, the other group that we are friends with, they took eight hours to find gorillas, but they saw them too.

And when I went, I was kind of like, oh, we're going to see one gorilla, whatever, they're going to be far away. Like, I was a bit skeptical because I didn't know how it was going to be. And it was incredible because we looked around for two hours, and I'll show you the video afterwards, but we got, and we just saw them like, hanging out, kind of like, how I'm looking at everyone here, just hanging out still. And then all of of a sudden they all started walking together and there's a family of 20 gorillas You got two silver backs that are like you know they're like their fists are like you know just you know you got exactly and it was really interesting because the guides who are there with us They said to us that when you go close to them kind of this is why I remember it and why I'm telling you,

it's because when you were talking about the way the whale looked at you, and it was kind of like, you knew it wasn't gonna eat you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so they were saying that when you get close to these gorillas, the only thing you can't do is you can't touch their kids and you can't touch them. And so you can't drop something near their kids

and then try get it back because they'll think you're trying to harm their kids. But what they recommended was they said, you had to make this sound when you see them and this sound means we come in peace. And so the sound was, so that's you have to make that sound. I was all right, there's some Disney last stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds like not. I was all right, I'm not believing this stuff. Like whatever, later I was all right, I'm gonna play around with it. And so I'm walking around, so we go to the gorilla and we get close to them and I made that sound

because we were told they were like, make that sound. And then the gorilla did it back and it was just unbelievable. And then there was this one moment where we were walking and we were literally surrounded by gorilla. Now I was getting it, and that's when I was like a bit scared because they were like all around us

and literally if they were around at you, like I'm done, right? Yes, nothing you can do. Nothing you can do. And, nothing you can do. And so we're walking, they're walking around us. And this massive silver back came up. So my business manager was with me as well. And so he's there.

He's like my godfather in LA. He really takes care of me. So very close to him. And so this big gorilla that walks behind him, and I'm looking at him going, oh man, like he stopped, and we're all looking at him because he's got the massive silver back behind him. And we're all like, how do we tell him to move?

And the guys are like, just be still, like just be really present, like you can't freak out. And the gorilla just went behind him, and he moved out the way and just walked fast. And it was just, it was that same presence that you're feeling that I felt with them. And that's what I mean, the living, being with another living being is spectacular.

So. Do you think that level of ease comes from the helpless nature of being in the presence of an animal that could do to you whatever they want to? Like I think part of the reason why I felt so calm when the whale had come up was because there was nothing we could do, should it go sideways. And I think being almost finding that kind of inner piece of like, I've made my mind, this is the choices I've made, I'm here now,

there's nothing I can do. It's almost like you should make peace with your choices, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. No, no, no, I think that's, I think you. It's almost like you should make peace with your choices, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. No, no, no, I think that's, I think you've actually taken it somewhere really beautiful, mate. I think for me as well, it's humility. Yeah, that's right. And like when you meet someone new, rarely are we humble. Sure.

We often feel the pressure to be like, or look at who I am, or, right, right. You know, or we're trying to create, even if it's not have ego, there's a certain sense of like wanting to gain people's like and respect. Where as you're right. Where as you're right.

No matter what I do, this whale or gorillas not gonna like or respect me. Sure. So I better just be humble about it. Yeah. And it pieces you said. And it levels you. And it levels you.

And it allows that being also, of course, it's not, of course, we're not recommending that you just go into these places. But the idea being that I do think there's something magical about nature where humility is kind of nature's way. And it is that what you're saying, that when you're at peace with your choices and you're at peace with, here we are, here I am, I can't do anything and guess what? It's okay.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's somewhat sort of like, I've made a decision, if the decision is a mistake, you got to live with it, she made it. Yes, I want to talk about sports, because I was thinking, so I play a lot of tennis, play a lot of football. I play a lot of pickleball now.

You play a lot of pickle, because that's become a thing. I'm a thing, yeah. But I'm massively more into paddle, I don't think I love paddle tennis. I love paddle. I want that to blow up in the US, but it's not going to.

So when I went to Dubai and I went to Miami and I went to Madrid because of big in Spain, mate. Are they playing it here? Yeah. My local tennis club has got two courts. No way. You can't book them. They're so sold out.

All right. Honestly, paddle tennis. I love tennis. Yeah. I think tennis is one of the best sports in the world. Yeah. And I think that, you know, they tennis is one of the best sports in the world. And I think that they are the highest performing athletes some of in the world. But it's really hard tennis.

Like, I find, unless I'm playing with someone who's much better than me, I don't play well. Like, I really, I need to be chasing someone. Paddle tennis is so social. It's easy to have great rallies. You still get the satisfaction of really smacking a ball. Because pickle is all about placement and trying to kind of one up your opponent.

Where is it playing at the kitchen and just doing the deal? Yeah, exactly. Why is it called a kitchen? I have no idea. So I play pickle like paddle. Right. Because I'm like, no. It's not a question. Yeah. Why? I do like pickle no, I'm in a position. It's not a sense. Why? I do like Pickle, but Paddle tennis play. Paddle is amazing.

Next time, yeah, yeah, yeah. Paddle is one of my favorite, favorite. I was in Dubai with a client for work for months, a couple of years back. I played it every day for three months. That's great. It's just, yes, the best workout, the most fun, like time just flew is amazing, but I was bringing it back to sports because I was saying, you know, you personally tried to recruit a Mbappe for Tottenham.

I did, yeah. And I just thought that was amazing because I was like, I've never seen this ever happen before where, you know, someone's using their cloud in the right way. Listen, I saw him. I'm a mad Tottenham fan and I just thought, now's my chance. And he said no. The deal didn't go through, no signing bonus for myself. That was a crazy trip that went to the ballon door.

We were there for Spider-Man, Spider-Man was coming out. I'm not really sure how that was promo for Spider-Man, but it was part of our trip, so reason. But it was amazing meeting these players, and I admire them so much. It's incredible when you can notice other athletes and other greatness. And I see that at the top. We've talked a lot today about, and you're really good at this.

Like, you really, I feel like you're quite tuned into, like, admiring and observing greatness and, like, the 1% and trying to figure out what they're doing differently. And I think that's one of the things I've definitely seen of the 1% is that there's a humility in that they have the ability to appreciate other people's greatness and skills and values and purpose. Like they're not looking at it going, I'm the best of all time.

Sure. There's a part of that, they may have to say that for the cameras or they may have to say that before they go on the pitch but actually if you talk to them and you ask them about someone else, they'll be like, yeah, best player I've ever seen. They're incredible.

And so, who did you admire growing up in acting? Who do you admire today? Like, who have been the people that, and maybe on a mindset level or maybe on a, or a performance level as well? There are definitely performances of people that I look up to. There are, there are the types of careers of certain actors that I really admire. They're also like the types of lives that certain people lead that I really admire. They're also like the types of lives that certain people lead that I really admire

and that I really aspire to sort of be like. I tend to let all of my admiration go towards athletes. I've just so blown away by what they can do under the pressure that they're under. Me as an actor, I realize that my job is a high pressure job because it reaches millions of people. But that said, there are so many people that help me get to where I need to be.

I get picked up, someone makes me breakfast, someone writes the words that I'm supposed to say, someone chooses my costume, someone does my hair and makeup, someone sets the camera up, ultimately I walk on to set and I do my bit, but I'm a small part in a massive machine, but when you look at someone like Jockovich or Federer

or this new Algaraz or the golfers or Lewis, Lewis is slightly different because Formula One is so much about the team and the car and all that sort of stuff. They have to do it themselves at a certain point. There's only so much help they can get, but then when they walk onto that court for the first time, when they walk into the ring or into the octagon, it's them by themselves. They're under that amount of pressure. It's up to them whether they deliver or not. And I just have always been

admiring of seeing some of the greats lose their win streak and come back even stronger. I've always really been an admirer of people that are able to do that. I think it's a folly when you see these win streaks of 50 and O and all that sort of stuff. And you're like, well, that to me isn't what a champion is. A champion is someone who had it all, lost it all, and got it right back again. Tyson Fury's story is a crazy one. I'd love to see AJ come back and be on top again because I'd love to be alive to witness

that legacy that he would leave behind. I feel sorry for him what happens to him when he sort of seemed to really lose it a little bit in the ring when he took the microphone and I'd love to see him back on top and to have some clarity and to be a champion again because I admire him as an athlete. So I save most of my admiration for athletes.

And musicians, I love musicians. I see someone like Ed Sheeran, 80,000 people in the palm of his hand. I think comedians are equally as talented, the ability that they can just go on stage and make people laugh. That is terrifying. Actors for me, because it's what I do. Yeah, it's like, you know.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. And at the end of the day, it's just, it's taking what you can from what you aspire for. You can take something from all these people. Right. And what I love about it, some of these people, you know, some of these people you don't,

but I always say to people who are listening and watching that you can be mentored by people you've never met. Right. And I think that's a really important skill to gain because I think we live in a world right now where somewhat access has come easier and we always think we need access to people directly in order to learn from them, but you don't know everyone you've just mentioned even though you may know a couple of them closely. And saying with me, like I was really fortunate, you really fortunate growing up as a teenager, I got introduced to Martin

Luther King's work and Malcolm X's work. I was reading crazy stuff at that age, but it had a massive impact on my mindset. I never met all those people and obviously we never have got the opportunity to do that, but I feel mentored by them without having sat in the same room as them because you study how they made decisions and you study what they said and what they wrote. What they stood for. And they stood for and how,

and the parts that you don't hear through history, the parts that were actually more difficult. Of course. The parts where they weren't the perfect hero. Right. And so all of that kind of stuff. But Tom, before we go to the final five, you've been so gracious with your time today.

I have to ask you if you wanna clarify the Harry Kane situation. Because, now tell you what, the reason why I say this is I had the dream. So I'm a Manchester United support. Everyone on my community knows that very well. Right. I have always had the dream that Harry Kane

when when Rooney retired. Harry Kane was going to come to Manchester United. Okay. And he was going to follow in the footsteps of all the great England forwards that have played. Okay. Manchester United. That didn't happen. Right. I'm still holding on to that dream. But you want him to go somewhere else. Well, listen, listen, let me just clarify, right? I love Harry Kane. I love Humanson. Humanson is my favorite football player. He is a hero. I love Tottenham. I'm a big Tottenham

fan, but I just, I know that those players could thrive and have the best careers ever. I just want to see Harry lift in a trophy and I want to see Son there by him and I just don't think so. You're rooting for the individual. Yeah, I'll always be a Tottenham fan. I love being a spurs fan. My brother Harry and I, we've really pondered over it. But I just, Harry Kane's one of the best strikers in the world. And he would fit into almost any team. And I'd love to see him on top.

And an interesting question. Do you think he would have had a similar season to Holland had he gone to see? Ooh, that's a... I personally think... Because I think Holland's amazing. I think Holland with his age, his strength, and his mentality, you know what's crazy about how Holland is? I saw this interview, and you know, obviously,

it hurts me to say it, but city and all. But when Holland did this interview, he'd just scored like, I can't remember which game it was. He's unbelievable. He scored like five goals that game, and just scored like, I can't remember which game it was. He's unbelievable. He scored like five goals that game, and he was like, I should have had seven. And the interview was like, come on, though, take some credit like you scored five goals.

And he was like, yeah, I'm happy with that, but he goes, you know, there were a couple of assists that should have gone in and I thought, that mentality. And when his mindset... Yes, or when his mindset? I was like, he knew exactly which opportunity he missed. And I was like, so I think it's an AIDS thing. Yeah.

I feel like Harlan's kind of like, I've always compared Harlan to Ivan Drago, like he was made in the lab. Right, right, right. He was made, like he was manufactured to be this incredible talent and incredible. And I think City's good with like, he had, like he scores a lot of tapins.

And I think that's his game. Yeah, but man, it's not in a good, score card, you know. No, in a good way, I'm saying. I'm saying like, he's been built in that way and city play that way. I don't know if Kane's a tapping guy. Sure, he's scored his goals

have generally been a bit more diverse than that. Magic. Yeah. Magic is the way I've described Kane. Yeah. No, I love him. And obviously it's a typical thing of like the press are out saying,

our Tom Holland's begging Kane to leave. I'm not begging him to leave. I love that he's out of our club because I'd be terrified to see where we'd be without him. But I just love to see him have the career I know he could have. What do you think of Jude Bellingham to Madrid? I think that's a great move. I love that.

He's got everything to do with that. And what's he thought to say? The interesting thing is that all of my friends in Spain are from Barcelona. I have one friend from Madrid. I've always been a big bar for support because I used to go to Barcelona all the time as a kid. I had a few weekends where I'd say to my mum and dad, I'm going to my friends house and I would go to Barcelona. LAUGHTER

How did you pull that off, man? She's sneaky, bro. If I told my Indian parents that, I was like, they know the dial tone straight away. I got caught. My mum called me up and was like, where are he? I was trying to say, I was on my friends house. She said, no, you're not, because I trying to tell, I was on my friends' house.

She said, no, you're not, because I'm here. And I was in La Rambla, in Barcelona. But I just love players, I think Jubileeums amazing. And I just love to see what he could do there. I think it's the thing for me is I love legacy. I love seeing what players can do, unless about the teams. So I love about tennis or golf, it's not about the team.

It's about the player. So I would just love to see what he could do there. And you know, I'm sure one day we'll see England raise a trophy and we've got such a great young team and and I admire them all, but yeah, I think it's a great move for him. He's only 19 or something like that. That's insane. Yeah, he's 19. That's wild. Incredible. It's a year older than my brother, Paddy. That's mental. Mate, you've been amazing today, honestly. This has been some of the most fun I've had in a long time. Yeah, I think so.

Thank you. I appreciate it. We ask everyone the final five. So these are the fast five questions, which means answers have to be one word to one sentence maximum. No more than that. Done. Okay.

And you don't have to write or spell them out. So no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, ever received? Move to LA, get a marijuana license, and buy a hot tub. Who told you that? Mark will work. That's brilliant. Now, he told me that on a chat show, so I don't know if that was legit advice, but I didn't take his advice. Okay, good.

Who would you have been if you took that advice? Who knows, who knows? All right, question number three. What's the first thing you do every morning and the last thing you do every night? Make number three. What's the first thing you do every morning and the last thing you do every night? Make my bed, it's the first thing I do. And the last thing I do before I go to bed, admittedly it's I check my emails, which I shouldn't do.

But that is what I do, yeah, it's bad. We ask that just to make you aware of what you need to change. I do need to change that. Making my bed is a good start. I used to never do that. And now like my first thing I do is I make my bed, that's my first challenge of the day.

It's a good, it's an easy one to get done. Question four, what's something you're trying to learn at the moment? I'm currently taking golf lessons. And... We see a trend, yeah. It's not going very well. Where are you at at the moment?

The thing is, with golf, is that the golf swing is a very, very particular thing. So in order to get better, you do have to take quite a few steps backwards. I've taken maybe 25 steps backwards, but I will benefit from it eventually. You do it every day. Not less than every day, but I practice every day. I've always said that to my wife. I was like, I want to go away for a month and I want to get a trade out.

I'm going to play golf every single day. I know a great tea way. Yeah, that's the only way. I had a really, so one of my clients picked me to PXG in Arizona, which is like this beautiful place, Bob Parsons Place. And I had a coach there for two days.

And I was like half decent after two days because the coach was so good. Yeah, man. And when I got back to LA, I tried to get a coach and I couldn't find a good one. And then I had a coach that literally, he came highly recommended, but he didn't work out for me.

He didn't let me take like 0.7 of a swing before he gave me a feedback. And I was like, I just need to hit a few. Like I need to kind of just, and it was like every time I was about to hit the board, but I'm like, no, sure, sure. I was like, I just need to kind of like get a feel for it. And so, the guy I go to is a guy called James Heath.

And he does most of his teachings off of feel. So it's not about numbers, it's not about results, it's more about how do you feel? He calls it the feels. So I'm working on twisting my hips more in my back swing, and he will say to me, how does that make you feel? Physically, where do you feel the stretch, where do you feel the pain, where do you feel the pinch?

Great question. That's what I need you to feel. And I, coming from a dancers background, that's a really great way for me to learn because everything in dancing is about feel. So if you need a great teacher in London, James Heath is. Thank you. Shout out James Heath.

Yeah, shout out James Heath. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone else in the world had to follow, what would it be? I don't know, I don't know what one law would solve the most amount of problems. What would you say, curious? I'd probably go to something you said earlier,

if I'm giving a genuine answer, like a real answer, is I really wish there was a life school? Oh, man. That would be it because I'm not saying that would solve all the problems in the world. No, but it would set people up. And when I say life school, I mean emotional mastery. I mean, 100% ego master.

I mean, the ability to be kind and empathetic and vulnerable and compassionate, create safe spaces. I think a life school that taught you how to be nonjudgmental and non-critical of others without understanding them. I think that's what I mean by life school. So not just their like paying taxes and bills and stuff, but the life school of like, well, what if we didn't have to live in a world

where we just said everything we wanted to and did everything we wanted to and got away with it? And you know, but I think life, the life lesson for me should be basic health and CPR and basic first aid training. It should be like you said creating an environment at school where Young people feel more comfortable talking about themselves what they're going through You know things that might be happening at home or things that are happening at school like I think that that would be an amazing way for us

To be more expressive and more comfortable expressing. And again, I know I keep going back to it, but it's about what my show is about, which is you should feel empowered when asking for help. It should be something that you're proud of. You're recognizing that you have an issue. It might be an internal issue. It might be an external issue, but you are seeking help, which I think is very admirable. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. I do encourage and recommend everyone go, what's the crowd is very admirable. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do encourage and recommend everyone go, what's the crowded room? I personally love it with my wife, honestly. Like I barely watch TV shows if I'm completely honest and it's because I like something that makes me think and reflect and entertain me at the same time.

Sure. And I think it does a brilliant job of doing all three. Like it's gripping, I'm like, trying to figure out what's going same time. Sure. And I think it does a brilliant job of doing all three. Like, it's gripping. I'm like, trying to figure out what's going on next. Nice. At the same time, I'm like, it's amazing watching you being able to be this very different character to what we know you as.

Sure. And that's really impressive. So even on a performance level, I'm like, I'm forgetting that you are Spider-Man. Nice. Right? Like, that's the goal. That's how I watch movies where I'm like,

can I forget who this person is? And, or are they playing a caricature of themselves, obviously? Sure, sure, sure. And with you, I'm like, I don't even think to think it's you. Right, right, right. Right now I'm talking to you, and I've been watching the show, I'm like, oh, it's not even the same person.

Sure. And that is really impressive on a performance standpoint. So, thank you so much. We're best. I really appreciate it. Thank you, mate. Thank you. If you love this episode, you will love my interview

with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose. Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve. Imparence and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave, versus teaching them how to behave. Hi, I'm Ellie Kemper and I'm Scott Eckerd and we're here to talk to you about the things we love on our new podcast born to love.

I can tell you about something I love this week's got foam rollers for my own mind. You're not talking pool noodle. Oh my gosh. No! Thank you for clarifying! A new podcast from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.