On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Why Your Self Worth is Keeping You Stuck & How to Stop Sabotaging Your Personal Growth With Jamie Kern Lima

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

How does low self-worth stop you from moving forward? How can you stop self-sabotage and grow personally? Today, let’s welcome Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie is a New York Times bestselling author, founder of IT Cosmetics, a company she started in her living room and sold to L'Oreal in a billion-dollar deal, becoming the first female CEO of a brand in its 100+ year history. She's also an active philanthropist who has funded leadership training in more than 100 prisons and shelters across the US, and has donated over $40 million in product and funds to help women face the effects of cancer with confidence.  Jamie and Jay ponder on the meaning of self-worth, distinguishing it from mere confidence and challenging the misguided belief that our value is tied to our physical appearance. We get to hear the detrimental effects of self-doubt and present empowering strategies to transform your relationship with rejection, offering a new perspective that fosters resilience and self-compassion.  And then the conversation dives deep into personal beliefs, urging us to identify and discard unhelpful misconceptions, while giving emphasis on why authenticity is crucial and its role in conjunction with other factors in achieving success.  In this interview, you'll learn: How to build self-worth How to distinguish confidence from self-worth How to handle rejection How to overcome self-doubt How to remain authentic Together, let's learn how to distinguish your worth from external validation, turn rejection into a stepping stone, and live authentically. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:17 Do You Feel Worthy Today? 10:04 Confusing Confidence with Self Worth 17:37 Your Weight Impacts Your Worth is a Lie  24:03 What Has Self Doubt Cost You? 31:25 How to Change Your Relationship with Rejection 37:02 The 4-Part R to Reframe Rejection 44:00 You Need This Today 48:13 Which Lie Are You Trying to Unlearn?  56:32 Authenticity Alone Doesn’t Guarantee Success Episode Resources: Jamie Kern Lima | TikTok Jamie Kern Lima | Instagram Jamie Kern Lima | YouTube Jamie Kern Lima | Website Jamie Kern Lima | Twitter Jamie Kern Lima | Facebook Jamie Kern Lima | LinkedIn Worthy: How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come back to, to listen, learn and grow. I am so excited because today's guest is a guest who's on for her second time. But thankfully this time in person, last time we recorded, I believe it's during the pandemic, we were doing virtual interviews. I'm so glad we're not doing those anymore.

I'm talking about my dear friend, Jamie Cairn Lemur, a New York Times bestselling author, founder of It Cosmetics, a company she started in her living room and sold to L'Oreal in a billion dollar deal, becoming the first female CEO of a brand in its 100 year history. Jamie is also an active philanthropist who has funded leadership training in more than 100 prisons and shelters across the United States and has donated over 40 million dollars in product and funds to help women face the effects of cancer with confidence. Jamie is donating 100% of her author proceeds of her new book Worthy to Charity as well, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life. Simple steps, life-changing results.

This is the book that I want you to go and grab. Order it right now. The book is available as we speak. Please welcome to the show the author of Where the Jamie Can Leave My. Jamie, thank you for being here. Jamie, thank you so much for having me. I am excited. This is going to be an amazing episode. I know. I just want to tell people, just so you know, Jamie arrived an hour ago

and we've spent an hour just chatting and hanging out. And I love it because I always love spending time with you. We became friends through a mutual friend, Brennan Bashard a few years ago. And I've always loved connecting with you, learning from you, hearing about how you have these divine downloads, as you call them, and how you channel in your work.

And I remember when you actually told me when you were divinely downloading this book. Yes. And I wanted to start off by, there's so many things I want to talk about in the book, but the thing that's calling me to start with is, do you feel worthy today? Our self-worth is our ceiling in every area of life.

And Jay, I have to tell you, for the longest time in my life, I believe this lie that if I achieve enough, I will finally feel enough. And right now I can tell you, I feel more worthy than I ever have, but it is a daily. It is a daily practice. it's a daily intention.

And for anyone who is with us right now, listening, watching, who's ever had a goal, like a big goal or a dream, and they thought, once I finally get that thing, then I'm gonna feel enough and happy and fulfilled. And then you get that thing, and maybe you worked for like a week or a month or several years. And then you get it and you're like happy for a while,

but you're like, why do I still feel like something's missing or like I'm not enough? And that was me most of my entire life. And usually when that happens, we think, oh, I've just got to work harder. I've just got to level up and hustle more and get the next thing and the next thing. And so I spent, oh my gosh, decades of my life, kind of as an achiever, but deep down inside not feeling like I was enough, yet I thought I would solve that by doing all these things on the outside

that the world told me makes you enough. And what's wild is even after, not to like jump way ahead, but even after achieving some of these things that the days I was a Denny's waitress, I could not have imagined selling my company for $1.2 billion cash, right? Or becoming the first CEO of, you know, a brand in L'Oreal's history, any of those things. I couldn't have imagined those happening, and yet I found myself in a moment in my life

where I was achieving all of these things and still feeling like I wasn't enough. And here's the thing, what I learned the hard way is when we achieve all these things, we build a lot of self-confidence, which is really important, but none of them build self-worth, which is different. And when we have a lot of self-confidence, which is really important, but none of them build self-worth, which is different. And when we have a lot of confidence,

when we're crushing it on the outside, but deep down inside, we don't feel like we're enough, it will show up in our lives and it may not show up in our career, it might show up in our relationships, it might not show up in different areas. And I found myself in this moment in time where I was so confident and all these things were going right.

And I had put decades of hard work, and I still didn't feel like I was enough. And I was still sabotaging things in my life. And it was really only three years ago where there was a big moment that happened in my life with Oprah, actually, where I realized, oh my gosh, I am so confident, but I actually have a lot of self-confidence, but I actually don't have a lot of self-worth. And they're very different. And, you know, our self-worth is our ceiling.

And it's why, you know, even if we arrive at that goal, whether it's like a career thing or getting married and having kids or finally getting a six pack abs or you know, whatever the things that we, you still take you with you, which is why you still arrive there and you're like, why do I still feel like I'm not enough? And as you and I are talking, 80% of women don't believe they're enough. 73% of men feel inadequate and not enough, right? And then you look at other areas of life, 75% of women deal with imposter syndrome, more than 50% of men deal with it. When we believe we are not enough as we are, A, it is a lie, it is a lie, but it impacts almost every area of our life. So a big reason why I wrote Worthy is because I realized,

oh my goodness, like in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. And that is the thing. Our self-worth is our ceiling. And so it's really a book about, you know, Believe It, my first book was my story of learning to believe in myself. And Worthy is really like a playbook.

Like how do you believe in you? It's packed with over 20 tools on it, on building self-worth and it's just the one thing because it's the identity level. Like our self-confidence is really important, but it's an internal trait, but it's based so much on the external. On like our willingness to try and go for it,

how we feel we stack up and compare to others, and how much of the world's definition of success we have, if we're winning or losing. And studies show the boxer who wins the fight is automatically 30% more confident. Our confidence is really important. It's an important part of our life, but it's fragile. It fluctuates.

Our self-worth is really important. It's an important part of our life, but it's fragile. It fluctuates. Our self-worth is different. It's that deep internal knowing and belief that we are worthy of love and belonging exactly as we are. Not as our past mistakes or failures or regrets. Not as our future successes, but innately and exactly as we are. And a lot of people worry,

well, if I believed I was enough as I am, will I lose my ambition? Will I lose my edge? And it's like, oh no, you don't, you actually become more ambitious. Cause when you learn to believe you are enough exactly as you are, you become fearless about going for things

because you know, even if you fail or fall flat on your face or you're embarrassed or it doesn't go well, like that might shake your confidence, but it cannot touch your self-worth because your self-worth is your identity. It's your foundation. It's almost like our self-confidence is the house with all the rooms and the art that we're building in our life, which is so important.

But our self-worth is the foundation under it. And our house is only ever as stable and secure as that foundation. So, yeah, I have been obsessed with self-worth, with building it. It is just the one thing that changes everything. And for most of us, like, we can go into this if you want, but there's like three main areas that shows up in our life when we're struggling with it. So, but I'm really passionate about it.

Yeah, I love it. I love the distinction you just made between confidence and self-worth. Yeah. Because I think we often get those two confused so often. And we feel if I'm confident, then nothing else matters. And we're chasing confidence. And you shared some of these just now,

but when I read this, it really hit me. And it's on the first page of the book, so you can't miss it. But I'm just going to share this if you don't mind, because I looked at these stats and it just was like a punch in the gut when I read it, because I was like, this really hit me. So listen to this. This is reading from worthy by Jamie Ken Lima page one. It says for the 80% of women who don't believe they're

enough, the 75% of female executives who deal with imposter syndrome, and the 91% of girls and women who don't love their bodies, for the 73% of men who feel inadequate, and the 100% of men who come from a woman and likely have at least one girl or woman in their lives whom they care about. When you believe you're fundamentally not enough and unworthy as a person, it's a lie. The time to unlearn that lie has come. Together, let's leave no girl, no woman, no person left behind in knowing they are worthy. Oh, wow. Like when I read that, I was like,

those stats just put it into perspective because I think we often think of feeling worthy or self-worth is kind of like this soft thing. Right. And all of a sudden you read the statistics on it and you think, but wait a minute, we're all dealing with this. Yes.

Like in some way, in some area of our life. And exactly what you said, we, and me, most of my life, I thought self-confidence and self-worth were the same thing. So when we're struggling with not feeling enough, and maybe so many people listening to us right now have all of this stuff on the outside that everyone tells you should make you feel enough, and it's because we're all confusing.

We think we just need more self-confidence, but what we really need is more self-worth. And they're so different, but we try to solve our feelings of not enoughness with things that just build self-confidence, but none of them build self-worth. And they're so different. Like so many people think they need more self-confidence,

which is important, but it's so, so, so different. And for self-worth, if someone's listening to us right now, they're like, oh, wait a minute, is this why I don't feel fulfilled? Or is this why I feel like it's never, I'm never enough? For self-worth, I'm just getting so fired up, I wanna jump out of your chair. But it shows up for so many of us,

like you look at those numbers, it's like, oh my gosh, three ways it shows up. So if we have low self-worth, right? And again, you can be crushing it on the outside and you can be hiding this really well. But if you have low self-worth, for a lot of us it looks like we're stuck and we don't know why.

We're stuck and we don't know why. We're stuck and we don't know why. And we tell ourselves, like, for example, maybe we know we wanna write a book or we wanna share our ideas at work, or we wanna put our art out into the world, or we wanna find a life partner, and, but we're not putting ourselves on the dating app, or we're not like going out and socializing,

or we're not raising our hand and sharing our idea on the Zoom caller. We haven't written the first word of our book and we tell ourselves stories like, oh, I just need more experience or I need to get more skillsets or all these reasons why we're stuck. And they may be true,

but what a lot of us don't realize is the reason we're stuck is because deep down inside, we actually don't believe we're worthy of the thing. And that will keep you stuck all day long and not knowing why. Because again, your self-worth is your ceiling, right? And we don't soar to the level of our goals and dreams. We stay stuck at the level of our self-worth every time. And that's really how low self-worth often shows up.

And then when you have a low to medium self-worth, what that looks like, maybe a lot of people listening can identify with this. It looks like you'll go for the thing, like you'll put yourself out there, but then you'll either hit a ceiling, a plateau, and you're trying for a breakthrough and you don't know why. Like maybe you want to grow your follower count, you want to grow your business to six figures, but you're hitting a ceiling at five figures and you don't know why you can't break past it.

Or you'll go for it, but you'll sabotage it, right? You'll go for it and you'll sabotage it along the way. You'll meet a potential partner and you'll be like, they're amazing. And then you somehow are attracted to them and you put them in the friend zone or You'll you'll write the book and then you won't send it out Like you'll go for the thing but you'll stop it because deep down inside

You don't believe you're worthy of it and the third most common way and this is for people who are ambitious or achievers This is very very common. This is me a lot of my life. You'll go for the thing and you'll actually make it happen. You'll actually achieve it. You'll actually, but you arrive at it still feeling like something's missing, still feeling like it's not enough, still feeling like you're not enough. And so you feel unfulfilled and then you think

I've just got to achieve more and more and more and more and more. And the most beautiful part about building self-worth is that you realize, okay, I am, which this is the truth, Jay, every single person listening to us right now, this is the most beautiful part. Every one of us, I do not care your past mistakes,

your past failures, what you think you got wrong, who you think you hurt that you wish you didn't, any of that. And I don't care how much success you have. None of that matters. Every person right now is fully, fully worthy, exactly as you are. And this journey isn't about learning some stuff

you gotta do to be worthy. This is about unlearning the lies that lead to self-doubt. And then igniting those truths that wake up worthiness in us. And that is the part I'm most excited about. I'm jumping out of my chair because when I think about everybody listening, when I think about everyone listening and watching you and I right now, the moment you learn to believe you are worthy, oh my gosh, like that is the moment where it feels like breakthrough. It feels like joy. It tastes like freedom. It's the

moment when unhealthy relationships end. It's the moment when you put your dreams and ideas out there, no matter how they are received. It's the moment you share your ideas. It's the moment businesses are launched. And I just, yeah, I'm so passionate about this because, and I talk about this in Worthy a lot that like, you know, we do in life, in life, in our relationships, in our friendships, in our hopes and dreams, that we don't rise to what we believe is possible, right? And it's hard to believe things are possible,

but even then we don't rise to what we believe is possible. We still fall to what we believe is possible. We still fall to what we believe we're worthy of. It is that one thing at an identity level that we will always return to and building it is everything. So have you ever had a guest jump out of your chair before? I'm like jumping out of the chair.

I'm so passionate about this. No, it comes across and I'm glad that you raised that because what I wanted to do with you, which I think would be really important, which was what resonated so strongly with me about your book, was these lies. Like as I sat here and I read through the lies, I was just like, I've told myself that one,

I've told myself that one, I've told myself that one, I've told myself that one. And I think our community who's listening to On Purpose right now or watching will definitely feel like these lies are relatable. So I'd love to dive into some of them that really stick out to me.

And I love that you've made it about unlearning lies rather than building self-worth. Because it almost feels so hard to be like, well, how do I build my self-worth? But when you recognize that actually we're trying to extract and excavate through all of these lies, it makes a lot of sense. So let's start with, I want to start, and we're not going to go through all of them because I want you guys to read the book, but I'm going to pick out a couple that

I, that really resonated with me. The first one that really resonated with me was of course, don't wait on your weight, the lie, my weight impacts my worth. Don't wait on your weight. The lie, my weight impacts my worth. Yes. This has been conditioned deeply into society and into culture that their weight impacts their worth. Yes.

Everyone, even if they don't say it, subconsciously feels it in somewhere or another. There's comparison. There's envy. There's images that are put in front of you about what you should be aiming for and what you should be. Walk us through that personally and in how we unlearn that. Yes, the lie, your weight determines your worth

has cost so many of us like so much in our life, believing that lie. And I talk a lot about this idea of don't wait on your weight to live your best life. And this is a whole chapter in where the like you said, I go into all these lies and how do you unlearn them? And this chapter is not about your weight. It's about that if you've been waiting on your weight

to live your best life, or by the way, the weight of expectations, other people's expectations or your own. What weight are you letting hold you down? So this idea that your weight determines your worth is a lie and it is a lie that is impacting so many of us. Right now, as we speak, 89%, 89% of girls and women will opt out of meaningful activities,

including interacting with friends or loved ones when they don't like how they look. And Jay, most of my life, I believe this lie. Even when I was crushing it by all other measures, I still, even when I built a company that was inspiring and does inspire millions and millions and millions of people to embrace who they are, I was still believing this lie that my weight determined my worth and I was still waiting on my weight for that. And the big way to overcome this lie,

because first of all, it is a lie. Second of all, for anyone who has hit fitness goals or hit weight goal, they know you still arrive at that goal and you still don't feel enough. It does not change who you are, right? Because it is an external thing that can fluctuate confidence, but it does not impact your worth.

That's the first thing. No matter what your weight is or isn't, it is irrelevant to your self-worth, and understanding that's really, really important. But then how to break free of this lie is to flip it on its head, which is what happened to me in my life. And as human beings, as you know,

we're wired to avoid pain at all costs. And we think, oh, if I, you know, we're waiting on our weight to live our best lives. And we think, oh, because I'm not what I think I need to look like, I'm gonna skip out on the event. I'm not gonna go to the party. We're gonna apply for the job. I'm not gonna apply for the job. I'm not going to put myself the party. I'm not going to apply for the job. I'm not going

to put myself out in the dating world until I'm this or that. I'm going to stand in the back of the photo, right? I'm not going to live my best life. And because I think I attach pain to that, I attach the pain of, oh, I might be judged if I go out in a swimsuit, oh, I might get disapproval. I might be all of these things. And so we hide. When you flip this around, and this is for everyone listening right now, and this impacts men in a huge way too, as well as women, but the numbers are just staggering.

But when you flip it around and go, well, wait a minute. What has waiting on my weight already cost me in my life? That, that pain of the regret. When we flip it around and think of it that way, that pain is far more painful than, well, what happens if I'm judged at a party? And in my life, I spent decades like telling myself, Oh, nothing fits. I I'm just not going gonna go. I'm just gonna miss out on this. And it was having my daughter and I remember this moment,

Jay, I was at a public hotel, lots of people there, people I knew were there, and my daughter was one years old and gonna go swimming for the first time. And I was literally on the side of the pool. I looked so cute but I was covered up, covered up the pool. I looked so cute, but I was covered up, covered up, in a, I had a swimsuit, but I was covered up, covered up, covered up, sunglasses, all the things. And I was like, I'm just gonna watch my husband take her and swim. And I had this moment where I'm like,

I know why I'm gonna sit here and watch. I'm about to miss out on the first moment my daughter's gonna swim, because I am still waiting on my weight to live my best life. And when I looked at like, what has this already cost me? The memories, the joy, all of it, right?

And I also realized me doing this is actually me telling her she is not worthy of her, of her body, right? And I'm like, the pain of that is far more. And that was the moment I literally took my cover up off. I walked over to the pool in front of everyone. I shook my cellulite with joy, like jiggled my cellulite with joy, Jay Shetty. And I got right in the pool. I swam with my daughter, Wonder, and I'm like, I'm done. I am done waiting on my weight.

And here's the thing, y'all. First of all, no one cares. You know what I mean about even people that are really high profile, at the end of the day, it cannot impact your worth. And to unlearn this lie, the most important thing, first of all, is to realize it has been a lie impacting you. And then to go, wow, okay, let me really understand

the difference between self-worth and self-confidence, and understanding the difference, and then understanding, okay, this lie is impacting my self-confidence. It doesn't touch my worth, but it is impacting my self-confidence. Now, how do I unlearn it there? How do I unlearn it? And this is how you learn it. And I go deep into how to do this in the book because when we can reframe a lie and believe and not only associate more pain with believing it than with just going for it,

that's when as human beings will go for it. On his new podcast, Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon, join Kevin for inspiring conversations with celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like musical artist, Jewel. What an equal opportunist misery is. It doesn't care if you're black or white or rich or poor or famous or homeless. If you were raised in misery systems, it's perpetual. Kevin is the founder of the non-profit organization, SixDegrees.org.

Now he's meeting with like-minded actors who share a passion for change, like Mark Ruffalo. You know, I found myself moving upstate in the middle of this fracking fight, and I'm trying to raise kids there, and my neighbor's, like, willing to poison my water. These conversations between Kevin and activist Matthew McConaughey

will have you ready to lean in, learn, and inspired to act. They're all on the wrong track, help get on the right track. If they're on the right track, let's help them double down on that and see the opportunity to stay on the right track for success in the future. Listen to Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tune into the new podcast, Stories from the Village of Nothing Much, like easy listening, but for fiction. If you've your podcasts. nothing much happens. I'm an architect of Cozy and I invite you to come spend some time where everyone is welcome and kindness is the default. When you tune in you'll hear stories about bakeries and walks in the woods, a favorite booth at

the diner on a blustery autumn day, cats and dogs and rescued goats and donkeys, old houses, bookshops, beaches where kites fly and pretty stones are found. I have so many stories to tell you and they are all designed to help you feel good and feel connected to what is good in the world. Listen, relax, enjoy. Listen to stories from the Village of Nothing Much on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yes, yes, the Street Stoic podcast is back. One of the quotes that came to mind here is from Drake. The lyrics that came up for me was from Beyonce.

I pulled a quote from just one of my favorite artists in general, Kid Cudi. We are combining hip hop lyrics and quotes from some of the greatest to ever grace a microphone. In it he says, cause it's just waves. Gotta just float, float and have faith. It's just waves. It's the line that we've all heard before from Lauryn Hill and she says, don't be a hard rock when you really are a gem. Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time.

Seneca, right? And he says, your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought, for the human spirit is colored by such impression. A quote from Epictetus where he says, don't seek for everything to happen as you wish it would, but rather wish that everything happens as it actually will. Then your life will flow well.

And listen, I know we all could use a daily shot of inspiration. So this is the podcast for you. Listen to season two of the Street Stalk Podcast as part of the My Kutura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. No, I think that question that you asked is huge. That question of what has it cost me.

Yes, yes. And to think that you could have never had that experience with your daughter who is adorable, but like to have that moment with her. Do you remember? Do you remember? I'm gonna share this moment with you. I know exactly what you're gonna say.

So we were at an airport together and my daughter, the first time she met Jay, she walks up to you and she Do you remember? I'm gonna share this moment with you. So we were at an airport together and my daughter, the first time she met Jay, she walks up to you and she calls you dad. She's adorable as well. So I was like, I'll take it. I'll take it. She's so cute. And she's really shy.

She just walks right up to you and calls you dad. I'm like, what's happening right now? I know, it's so funny. I love it. I remember my husband, Paolo comes in like, Paolo, I promise you don't worry. Like, it was so funny. She's so cute. And it's like to think, I love it. I remember my husband, Paulo, comes in like, Paulo, I promise you don't worry. Like, I was like, haha. She's so cute. And it's like to think, I love that question

because I think it's really practical for everyone listening and watching right now to ask yourself, what does it already cost you? And what is it going to cost you? That memory with your child. That potential job that fulfills your dream. That great memory with friends. That whatever it may be, like we're all missing out on something because of that.

And that is such a great, just that one question. Just that question. Is a great way to reframe. And I know we're going to dive into some of the lies. This whole book when, oh my gosh, Jay, this is the thing. When you ask yourself, what does self doubt already cost you in your life? Right? And then you look at it from that perspective.

And a lot of us, we spend so much time building skill sets and those are important. You know, you and I was talking about, it's important to put in the reps and get the experience and all the things. But also learning how to unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt, oh my gosh. Because again, our self-worth is our ceiling.

And so just, it's so powerful. Yeah. And we've had that doubting voice, whether it's come through teachers, family members, whether it's come through your friend at school, whatever it was, we've all adopted doubting voices over time. And now we replay them to ourselves in our own voice. And we think they're us, when in in fact they've just been conditioned and trained. Yes, and self-doubt will kill more dreams than almost anything else, like literally. And it is a lie, right? And self-doubt lives in our head, it's our thoughts, but it is not you.

It is not you. And it's like our knowing, our truth, our worthiness. I feel like it's in our soul. It's innate. I remember a moment, Jay, where my whole life, I, as a little girl, I would sit there home alone and I'd watch Oprah. And she was like my hero, right?

And I dreamed of meeting her one day. So for everyone listening, maybe you had a, maybe your hero was Superman, or we all have different. I dreamed of meeting her. I'd watch her, and I'm like, one day I'm gonna host a show and share other people's stories with the world. And she was just my hero my whole life. And I remember this moment as a little girl

where I'm like, I'm gonna meet her. I just had this knowing, I'm gonna meet her, which made no sense. I'm in the middle of a suburb of Washington state. Like, I'm gonna meet her. I just knew it. And I dared to believe it was gonna happen. I dared, I prayed it would happen.

Fast forward 39 years. And I had a chance to meet her at an event, which is the longest I went going to. It was amazing. And then after it went by so fast, I wrote her a letter after and sent it to her chief of staff, which is one in a billion that she would read,

that the chief of staff would read it. Amy was her name. is one in a billion that she would read, that the chief of staff would read it. Amy was her name. Then one in a billion, she would share it. Then one in a billion, Oprah would read it. All those things happened, and Oprah invited me to her house for lunch. And I'm sharing this because everyone listening, I think, is gonna have an aha in their own life

with how we handle and how we sabotage things we don't believe we're worthy of. And now this was my dream my whole life and I went to her house for lunch, which is like what in the world, right? And we had a three-hour lunch, just me and her. At the very end, this is my lifelong dream, at the very end of it she gave me her cell phone number and she said, call me anytime. You can call me anytime.

And Jay, in this moment in my life, and I just want everyone to put themselves in these shoes because we all do this. I was really confident. I did not know there was a big difference between self-confidence and self-worth. And everything was going right in my life, right? Like I just sold a cosmetic for all this money, like the Forbes list, all these things, and I was really confident.

And the day she gave me her number, I did not call her for four years. Literally didn't call her for four years. And in that four year stretch, I told myself stories that I thought were true, like, oh, I just need to have the perfect thing to say, then I'm gonna call her, or I bet everyone wants something from her, I'm gonna prove I don't need anything, I'm not, you know, I just need to have the perfect thing to say. Then I'm going to call her. Or I bet everyone wants something from her.

I'm going to prove I don't need anything. I'm not, you know, I tell myself. And literally four years later, it hit me like this light bulb that burst where I was like, the real reason I have not called her was because deep down inside, I didn't believe I was worthy of being her friend. And this is what self-worth, low self-worth will do to you. You can have a lot of confidence. You could be crushing it everywhere,

but you sabotage an opportunity. You sabotage your marriage. You sabotage your friendship. It shows up in different areas. And that was the day you reminded me of this story because you're talking about our thoughts and our self-doubt. That was the day when this happened and I realized it. I literally, I imagine myself turning down the dial, like almost like a volume dial and over radio of my thoughts

and my self doubt that says you are not worthy of being her friend. And I imagine like turning up the volume on my soul, like my knowing, because I am a kick-ass friend. I know I am worthy of being her or anyone. I am such a good friend. And I know that. And I remember turning the volume up on that knowing. And that was the moment I called her. When I learned to turn down the volume on the lies

that tell us we are not enough and unworthy and like tune into our soul and to our knowing. And that was the day I called her. At first I called her, she did not answer. I was like, oh my gosh, four years, she didn't answer. But then I called again and she did. And that was the day I became obsessed with studying self-worth because I realized,

oh my gosh, while self-confidence is so important, while I've worked so hard and I'm so proud and I believe we always need to be while self-confidence is so important, while I've worked so hard and I'm so proud and I believe we always need to be building self-confidence and growing and contributing something bigger than ourselves to feel fulfillment, all of those things are multiplied by our level of self-worth. And anything times zero is zero. So if we do not feel we are enough deep down,

it is why we will be perpetually unfulfilled, no matter how much we achieve. And what is the point of all of it if we are unfulfilled and don't enjoy it? And so became obsessed with studying self-worth. And I just think about how, you know, I taught a course with her this last year and now it's and it almost didn't happen. And when I think about what is self-doubt already cost you, like for everyone listening and watching us right now,

what hasn't happened? Like I almost so many times, I doubted myself out of my own destiny, right? And like this is why building self-worth is so important. I'm a little passionate about Worthy, the book. A little passionate, yeah, a little passionate. I love it. No, but you have a chapter in here called Change Your Relationship with Rejection.

Yes. And I think what's really interesting about that is that rejection is a reminder that we don't have self-worth, right? That's the root of why it hurts so much. Is because when someone rejects us, it reminds us of how we've been rejecting ourself time and time and time and time again.

We haven't showed up for ourself. We haven't lived our authentic self. We have rejected ourself. And so when someone rejects that part of us, it causes so much pain. So when you're telling us to change your relationship with rejection, how does one even start? Because I think whether someone's trying to become an actor, whether someone's trying to get a job,

whether someone's trying to find a partner, rejection is almost the path. But we don't always see it that way. Yes, and I love what you just said, which is so insightful. Every single time we show up inauthentically too, every time we're not who we are, every time we show up as our representative in a room or the people pleaser and we say yes when we mean no,

or any time we show up as someone who we think other people want us to be, but not as who we are, we are telling ourselves we are unworthy of being who we are. And we slowly ourselves we are unworthy of being who we are. And we slowly but surely chip away at our self worth. There's a whole chapter in here called, you're not crazy, you're dispersed.

And it's all about the power and the data behind it of, oh my gosh, about how so often the things that we think are wrong or odd or quirky or off or different or strange or wrong about us are actually the things that are most right about us. And literally I built a billion dollar business figuring this out. This tastes like freedom.

When you embrace this, this tastes like freedom. I'm so excited for everyone to read that chapter. And also the one you're talking about, when you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life and exactly what you said. So again, so a lot of us associate so much pain with getting rejected or failing, right, that will stay stuck.

And to your point, it can hit deeper. So here's the thing, whether we've been rejecting ourselves by not showing up authentically, or a lot of us are unaware of past rejections or failures. And when we build self-worth, what's beautiful is rejections and failures, they just shake our confidence for a bit, but they cannot touch our self-worth. But for a lot of us, we've had past rejections or failures that, yes, have hurt our confidence, but we've let them take root at an identity level and we've started to believe we're a failure or we're a reject. And that is when they crush your self-worth.

And so I go into a four-part framework called the four Rs in this chapter and it is, oh my gosh, this might be my favorite chapter because this was almost its own book. When you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life. I did not want to wait two and a half more years to put it out, which as you know, as an author, you have to wait. I'm like, no, people leave this now. So it's now chapter two in the book.

But here's the thing. When I was building IT Cosmetics, what a lot of people don't know, they just kind of read the press headline, oh, Denny's Waitress builds billion dollar company. But it was hundreds and hundreds of rejections along the way. It was so many people that I just love. And I used to save my Denny's tip money to buy a lipstick at Sephora.

And in the department, like I love shopping there. And all of a sudden, they're telling me no, that my idea is not going to work. The brand's not going to. And this was no after no after no after no. And from the point I launched this business in my living room, is not going to work, the brand's not going to. And this was no after no after no after no. And from the point I launched this business in my living room, it was three years before I could even afford to pay myself a penny.

But then hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of nos. And here's the thing. A lot of people, maybe they know it cosmetics today, and they see it at Sephora or at Ulta Beauty or in the department stores, on QVC. And they don't realize it was actually years of all of them saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And Jay, sometimes it wasn't just no,

it was like, no, come back later. It was like, no. Like some of the no's were so painful, I would cry myself to sleep under the covers. And most of us have so much pain attached to rejection that we give up after one no or five nos or we start to think that someone else's rejection or no or disbelief in us or whatever it might be is some indication of our potential or some indication of our idea or our dream or our talent. And it is not. It is not.

And so my intention behind this chapter was, I was like, OK, let me break down at a granular level, what are the tools on how to reframe rejection so that you actually embrace it in a way where you become fearless over it? And I break down the four Rs, which is how I went from going through hundreds of rejections and literally not letting them take root, literally deciding, like, oh, this

is no indication if my business is going to make it, if my idea is right. And there was one moment after this really painful rejection from QVC, and I knew in my knowing, we talk about our knowing, in my knowing, right? We talk about our knowing. In my knowing, Jay, I knew, like, I'm supposed to be doing this. And every time I'd pray or get still, I just felt this knowing like I'm supposed to be doing it.

But everyone around me was telling me no. Potential investors were telling me no. All these retailers were telling me no. And two things for anyone who needs this today. What I realized is, OK, I'm getting all these nos, but when I get still, and for some people, that's meditation, for some people, that's prayer. When I get still and I pray, I will hear a knowing.

And every one of us has a knowing, and your knowing is more powerful than anyone else's advice. And in this case, I had this journey of all these no's. And I had my knowing. And I believe which one you listen to, do you listen to the no's? And sometimes our thoughts, we're the ones telling ourselves the most painful no's. Or do you listen to your knowing, right?

And whether you listen to the no's or the knowing, I think your life, your business, your relationships can come down to which one you listen to. But when we're in the journey of understanding that, the nose can be really painful. So there was one particular moment I was crying under my covers from another rejection from QVC. And I started Googling every thought leader,

every person who has helped me with humanity forward, every person in business who's ever built incredible things. Every single one of them has faced countless rejections, countless failures, countless setbacks. They're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways. And what I realized in that moment was every time I had been getting a no up till then, the first thought I'd have is, yet there's proof I'm not enough. Right? And so, and why that's important is for everyone listening, if you imagine yourself getting rejected,

or imagine yourself putting yourself out there telling the person you wanna be more than just friends, or putting an idea on social media, or going for the business, or applying for the job, and you imagine yourself getting rejected or failing at it, think about the first thought you think. Like for me, most of my whole life, it was, yep, I'm not enough proof. I'm not for a lot of us. That first thought is so painful.

And by the way, that first thought is actually your current definition of rejection or failure. That is the meaning, whether you know it or not, that you're assigning to rejection or failure. And that meaning for so many of us is so painful that it will keep us stuck. We will quit, we will give up. Right?

And so for me, my whole life, it was, oh yeah, there's proof I'm not enough. And in this single moment, crying under the covers, then Googling all these people and realizing, wow, they've all had a million rejections. They're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways. And that day I wrote down, rejection does not mean I'm not enough.

Rejection means I'm one of the brave ones. Like it's a victory. I'm one of the brave ones willing to keep going for it. Anyway, I am not one of the ones sitting on the sidelines in regret, right? No, I'm one of the brave ones. And so I reframed it. And then every time I got another no,

I committed, right? Because right away I would think, oh yeah, proof I'm not enough. Like, no, no, no, no. I'd intercept that thought, replace it with this new definition. Like, this is a victory. It means I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it. And I believe that to be true. And so this four-part R framework is to reveal your current definition of rejection, which we all did, right, the first thought you have when you get rejected or failure, that's actually your current definition. And for a lot of us, it's real painful

when I ask groups of people this, it's like, I shouldn't have even tried, I'm a loser, I'm stupid, why'd I go for it? That's your current definition. I knew it wasn't meant to happen. Exactly. And so then when you redefine it, which is what I started to do in that moment where I wrote out,

oh, rejection doesn't mean I'm not enough. It means I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it. And then I started building a toolbox in my life. That's such a great tool. Of new definitions. So another one I love is rejection's God's protection. Rejection is the universe's protection. Rejection means I'm one step closer to that, yes.

Rejection is I'm putting in the reps. I'm getting strong enough to carry the weight of my success when it does happen. Rejection means like, okay, I'm excited for what's coming because this is not happening to me, it's happening for me and I cannot wait to, right? So I go through in the book how you do this and build this new set of definitions

that you're committed to. And then the third R is my favorite, and it is called revisit. And this is the one that will change everything. It's gonna be really emotional for everyone, likely who does it. But Jay, a lot of us have past rejections or failures. The person that broke our heart, the person that we wanted to work out so bad and it didn't,

or the job we wanted so bad and they didn't see our value and we don't know why, or the partner who betrayed us or the friend that pulled the rug out from underneath you, or the new friend that did not invite you to the party and you don't know why. And the third R is revisit. And this is where you go to rejections that have happened that you've let take root into your identity and convinced you you're somehow a rejecter,

you're somehow a failure. And then you apply these first two steps to them. You reveal what your meaning is you're giving to them. And then you redefine them. And this is like, oh my gosh, so many of us are letting past rejections and failures stick to us like labels that we think are permanent that are like lead balloons on our wings

when we're trying to fly and we're trying to soar, but we're holding ourselves down. And I have done this with so many things in my life, and it has been huge because, two quick things, I'm so excited. But you know, I was adopted, and I was raised by parents who, oh my gosh, I feel so blessed. But they worked a lot, and I was always home alone watching Oprah in my living room. But all growing up and later in life I found out I was adopted and I always had this told myself this story that or I always felt abandoned or unwanted and the way that that came out in my life oh my gosh like I would stay in toxic relationships because I didn't want to abandon

the person. Later on when I'm crushing it in business and have over a thousand employees in my company, I would not fire employees soon enough when like they really, really deserved it because I didn't want to abandon them. And I went through this process in the book and I'm, and I realized the meaning I was giving to being adopted, the meaning I was giving to growing up alone a lot. And I realized, okay, I can tell myself that story or I can actually redefine it in a way I know is true. And I just decided, okay, you know what?

My birth mom and dad were together one time ever. Like God chose me to be conceived. And then my birth mom's life would have been so much easier if she did not have me, but she chose to bring me in the world, and my parents chose to raise me. I'm like, I'm not unwanted. I'm chosen. And like, I believe that to be true. And it has shifted how I show up in friendships.

It has shifted how I believe I'm worthy of friendships. And my all-time favorite, just in case someone needs this today, because I think so many of us have been hurt by other people, have been hurt, have people have not loved us the way we need, or we're just hurt because we feel like we're not included or our friend doesn't see our value or we're trying so hard to put ourselves out there and it's not working. I will tell myself this definition, and this is for someone who needs this today, I feel it in my soul.

I will literally imagine God saying to me, oh, you weren't rejected. I hid your value from them because they're not assigned to your destiny, and I will believe it. And even to this day, it helps me let rejections roll right off me. If I'm not invited to a party, Jay, the old me wants to think I'm not enough. Like, and right away I'm like, oh, OK, God's blocking my value from that person because I don't know why, but they're not assigned to my destiny. And I'm going to trust it. I'm going to believe it. And it helps me not let these things take root in my identity. And it helps me just like break free from them.

And so I go through the whole four part framework of how to do this, but I can tell you, it's almost never an accident when someone has been able to create or build or succeed in something. And while I have made so many mistakes and I have a lot of issues in my life right now, fear of rejection and failure is not one of them. It is literally one of the tools on how I endured hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rejections.

And then, Jay, like what's so kind of cool, this is cool, is just because I know someone needs to hear this today, that someone else's doubt about you is no indication. It's no indication of your potential, of if your dream is going to work, of if your idea is going to work, if you're going to make it of if your business is gonna succeed. And I look back and every single person that told me no along the journey of building at Cosmetics, and sometimes it was years, even after we built the number one brand in QVC,

number one beauty brand in their history, after they said no for years, even after that, I think it was like, I don't know how many more years before Sephora finally said yes. It was no after no, I think it was like, I don't know how many more years before Sephora finally said yes. It was no after no forever. And every single one of those nos turned into a yes. Every single one of them. And it's just like, I don't know who needs to hear this.

But if you have a knowing, if you have a knowing that you are supposed to be doing what you're doing, whether it's putting your art or your talent out there in the world or going for that job or launching that business. Like other people's nos cannot compete with your knowing. And you've got to trust your knowing. The second you start trusting all those other nos or the nos that get in your head,

that will take you down all day long, right? It will, but that rejection, those nos are no indication of your potential. And so it was just really important for me to go through, it's really like a masterclass in that, in worthy on how do you reframe rejection and learn to believe it so it does not have power over you and it doesn't take root in your self-worth

and it doesn't hold you back. So I hope, I can't wait for it to hear how this blesses people and I want them to share this. First of all, anyone listening, share this episode with someone who's like, oh my gosh, if they knew how to reframe a no or reframe rejection, but then post in tag J and tell them how this is impacting your life.

Because this is, yeah, it just tastes like freedom. And it's all a lie. Someone else's rejection impacts our potential. That is a lie. That is a lie and when we learn not to believe it, it's just, it's freedom. You can see the freedom on your face. And I want everyone to know,

just so that you know some of the other lies that I think you'll love to read when you get the book. Lie, I don't have anything special to offer. You're gonna love that chapter. Another lie, I don't have anything special to offer. You're gonna love that chapter. Another lie, I need to please them to love me. That's gonna be another lie. That chapter's gonna blow your mind. And there are so many other phenomenal insights, tools.

Jamie has just shared a tip of the iceberg version of some of the amazing tools that are inside this book. And Jamie, I wanna ask you one last question that I'm sitting with as I'm looking at your beautiful cover. I'm witnessing you like a rocket ship flying off of this seat. And which lie are you still trying to unlearn? Whew, which lie am I still trying to unlearn?

I think every single day I work to unlearn them. The one I will say that I that feels the best to be unlearning right now. I mentioned it a little bit earlier, but didn't go into it. And maybe this is exactly for someone right now. It's so funny. I'm not even thinking about you and me. I'm thinking about the person listening who is just gonna break free with this. That's why I'm getting so excited. But my whole life, Jay, for anyone who has felt like they're a little odd or different, or maybe they don't quite fit in with their family,

or they're like the one that likes to read books when no one else does, or they're the one that, you know, I used to- Listen to podcasts. Yes, listen to podcasts or has big dreams. I always felt like I had to kind of change who I was to fit in and that who I was, if I was fully me, I would not belong. And I always kind of felt like that.

And I always felt a little bit different. And I remember growing up, I would have these big wild ideas about, you know, things that could impact the world. And again, I have blessed loving family, but I would often hear things like, things like that don't happen to people like us, or, you know, things like that, right? And I remember, and I'd always hear like,

you're crazy, you're crazy. And it was a term of endearment, but you're crazy. Who do you think you are? And I just got really good at dimming my own light to make everyone comfortable. I got really good at people pleasing. And in my 20s, I was the first person in my five families that I'm aware of to go to therapy.

No one had ever gone to therapy that I am aware of. And I remember flat out asking my therapist, I said, you know, am I crazy? Like my family's always said these words as terms of endearment, but like I feel like I'm very different and I don't fit in. And I asked her and she said, you're not crazy, but I'm really glad you're here.

And she explained to me that when you are the first in your family or your peer group or the people you were raised around or your colleagues when you're the first to actually be brave enough to be who you authentically are and be willing to think different or love different or vote different or create different right that will, it often comes with feeling othered or feeling like you don't quite fit in or you don't quite belong because you are the first ever you.

And I remember this moment that hit me like a light bulb, like so bright it burst when I realized I'm not crazy. I'm just first. Not crazy, I'm just first. I'm the first ever me. And every person listening to you and me right now, like you are the first ever you. And if you are one of the brave ones willing to show up

in this life as who you truly authentically are, you are first. There has never been another you before. There will never be another you again. Like no one in this world has your unique fingerprints or tongue print or iris of your eyes or we all have a unique heartbeat. But also, if you think about this, right, for everyone listening, no one else has the experiences you have and the emotions

that you feel or sees art or beauty in the world the way you do. And so when you show up authentically as who you are, do not be surprised if not everyone gets it. Like they've never seen another you before, right? There's no social proof that your idea is gonna work if you're doing it authentically because it's never been done before. And when we talk about that lie about,

oh, I have nothing special to offer. Okay, I walked into a beauty industry with tens of thousands of brands and I launched a concealer, then a foundation. That has been done a million times before, but guess what? I dared to do it authentic to me, right? And that has never been done before.

And so for every person listening who thinks someone's done my idea, someone's done it better than me, someone's done it smarter than me, someone's done it smarter than me. That is a lie because when you are willing to be the brave one and show up as who you authentically are, you cannot prove me wrong. It has never been done before. Your idea has never been done before the way you're going to do it.

And that is why it is your superpower to be fully authentically you because we think, oh, those things are wrong if they found out who I really am, oh, uh-uh. The second you are not you, there's an automatic barrier of disconnection between you and customers, you and a potential partner, you and friends. When you are who you fully are, even the quirks and all, that is your superpower.

You are not crazy, you are just first. And that has been, I think, of all the lies, that is the one that is the most freeing. It is the most liberating. It has brought me so much closer in my friendships, right? And walking into this room with you, Jay Shetty, a friend who I love and adore, if I am thinking about, oh, I need to be a great guest

and say the right things and idea, there's now a barrier of disconnection between me and you, between me and every single person listening and watching right now. And there's probably a billion things I've said that I could do such a better job at. But guess what? I said them fully me.

I was jumping out of my chair because that is fully me. But this is how people connect. And so every person listening who feels like they have to be something slightly other than who they are, uh-uh, uh-uh, you are not crazy or odd or different. You're first, right? And the last thing I'll say to that, Jay, when I finally got one shot on QVC

after years of them telling me no, and we sold out in 10 minutes, which is a wild story, and then I eventually did over a thousand live shows, right? We were selling over $200 million in product a year, just me to a camera on QVC. I mean, the whole thing was wild, but I sat in that green room for over eight years, over a thousand shows,

and I met tens of thousands of entrepreneurs, of brand founders, of celebrities, of people that came in to sell their product on air. One out of every, I don't know, thousand ever come back because it is so hard to hit the sales numbers. Because you're live on air and they know by the second if you're hitting sales numbers. And I remember watching this, and this is for everyone listening right now. I remember watching over an eight-year window going, what is that commonality with the very

few who make it? What is that? The very few who get, you know, who hit numbers, get invited back another time and eventually build something that lasts. What is that commonality? And I would just watch, watch tens of thousands of, from every, the biggest brands in the world, the most famous people in the world, the greatest founders.

And literally, it was not who had the best product. It was not who is the most famous. It was not who's given the best discount or deal of the day, none of that. And it was not who's the most seasoned salesperson or television professional. The only thing they had in common, the very few who made it,

was that they are the same on air when they are talking to customers and selling their products as they are off air in the green room. And it did not matter if they're extroverted or introverted, if they're quirky and out there and big personality or like really quiet and very like meticulous, it didn't matter. It's the ones that were the exact same because you cannot fake authenticity and and and and customers and people sense it and

feel it whether it's your online community or it's the people buying your product doesn't matter and when I watch that I'm like this is the most freeing thing ever because it takes all the pressure off of feeling like you gotta be something you're not. Or you gotta show up as your representative. And I saw proof before my eyes in the form of literally success, of conversion to sales, of people trusting that person.

Right before my eyes, year after year after year, that it does not matter how you show up, you just have to be authentic. Like that's it. And how few people are. And what I realized, the last thing I'll say, is that I realized this lesson that I try to live by every single day,

because I think this applies to every area of our lives, that while authenticity alone does not automatically guarantee success, inauthenticity guarantees failure. Every time, over time, in every area of our life. But when we embrace that, it's just all the pressure comes off and it just tastes like freedom. It feels like joy.

It's when we live in alignment with our assignment. Jamie, I want to thank you for revealing and releasing so many of the lies I have within me during this conversation too. I really felt that sitting here and consuming and deeply immersing myself in what you were saying. There were so many wonderful releases that happened, just in that process,

and I'm sure that I'm not the only one. And so if you've been listening or watching, I'd love for you to grab a copy of Jamie's book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life, Simple Steps, Life Changing Results. The book is available now. The link is available in the caption below.

Please go and grab a copy of this book. You're gonna love it. And I said earlier, Jamie is donating 100% of her author proceeds for Worthy as well. And so you'll also be supporting a good cause. Jamie, thank you for coming onto On Purpose today. So grateful to call your friends. So grateful to have you in the studio with us

and so grateful that you put this book together. So thank you for being here. Thank you, Jay. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic

and how to speak to yourself with more compassion. My fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that. Hi, I'm Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And I'm Sarah Hart Unger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families. On the Best of Both Worlds podcast each week, we share stories of how real

women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out child care to mapping out long-term career goals, we want you to get the most out of life. Listen to Best of Both Worlds every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tune into the new podcast, Stories from the Village of Nothing Much, like easy listening, but for fiction. If you've overdosed on bad news, we invite you into a world where the glimmers of goodness in everyday life are all around you. I'm Catherine Nicolai and I'm an architect of Cozy. Come spend some time where everyone is welcome and the default is kindness. Listen, relax, enjoy. Listen to stories from the village of nothing much on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, friends. I'm Danielle Robay. And I'm Simone Voice. And we're here to introduce you to The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast that's guaranteed to light up your day. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions,

big and small, we'll talk through it together. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.