Pardon My Take - Verne Lundquist, Kirk Goldsberry In Studio, Nuggets In Trouble And A Good Old Fashioned NBA/NFL Hypothetical

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

The Nuggets are in deep deep waters with an awesome Wolves team (00:00:00-00:08:27). The Thunder are back to playing basketball and look awesome (00:08:27-00:12:12). Cocky Hank is in rare form and we talk Celtics bloodbath and the Knicks/Pacers end of game debacle (00:12:12-00:22:19). Igor Shesterkin saves 54 shots and we dive into our favorite dumb Hypothetical how many guys in the NFL could play in the NBA and vica versa (00:22:19-00:44:15). Hot Seat/Cool Throne including Josh Hart's injury potentially making him incredible at threes and Scottie Scheffler's still pregnant wife (00:44:15-01:04:37). Verne Lundquist joins the show to talk about his Hall of Fame career, his favorite calls, the Kick 6, and being Mr Steal Your Girl (01:04:37-01:48:21). Kirk Goldsberry joins the show on the day his new book launches (go buy it on amazon) to talk NBA playoffs, Wolves Defense, the super young Thunder and how the Celtics should cake walk to the Finals (01:48:21-02:24:05). We finish the show with listener submitted Pardon Your Takes (02:24:05-02:39:58).You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/PardonMyTake

Hey, pardon my take listeners, you can find every episode on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. On today's part of my take, we have a twofer for the people we have the legend Vern Lundquist. Great interview with Vern talking about his entire career. And then we have Kirk Goldsberry in studio breaking down the NBA playoffs. We're going to talk about the NBA playoffs. The Nuggets are in deep shit. Knicks, Pacers game one. The Thunder have finally played a basketball game again and Hank, cocky Hank is on his way. We're going to do some hot seat cool thrown. We're going to do Pardon Your Take. Great. We're going to do partner your take. Great show and it's all brought to you by our friends at DraftKings. Did you ever play the over under game with your friends?

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slash PIC 6 states. Voidware prohibited. See terms at pick six dot draft kings dot com slash promos. Okay, let's go. Boy! Boy! Now in the street there is violence and then a lot of solid work to be done. No place to hang out or wash in It's part of my take. Presenting by Marshall Sports. Welcome to part of my take presented by DraftKings.

Play Pick 6 from DraftKings, a new fantasy app that packs more fun into less time. Download the new DraftKings Pick 6 app. Now use code TAKE. New customers play five bucks and get 50 and pick six credits. That's code take only on DraftKings pick six. The crown is yours. Today is Wednesday, May 8th and the Denver Nuggets are in some deep, deep shit. Pft. Yeah, they looked really bad. They look terrible offensively. They look bad defensively. The Minnesota Timberwolves looked awesome defensively, which had a lot to do. That's not all in the nuggets, but they, they looked out of sorts.

I had, I had a thought, uh, and I'm not exactly like a film breakdown guy when it comes to basketball. I don't know if you know that about me or not, but it seems like every time teams play the nuggets, they play the nuggets game and they try to match up against Jokic in a way that the Timberwolves didn't even attempt to do last night because they had their hand forced with Rudy Gobert being out for having sex nine months ago. So by stretching him out and by Jokic didn't, I don't know what he was doing. He looked like he was just in no man's land defensively for most of the game like caught halfway between where he's used to being and where he should be and they just ate his lunch.

Yeah, no. I mean the nuggets or the nuggets are in trouble. I mean, you're right. Jokic like he gets stuck in these pick and rolls. He's been swiping at stuff. He's looked for all the things that people criticize Jokic for before his championship run. It feels like they're coming back right now. I still think he's an incredible player, one of the best players in the NBA. I'm not ready to bury him right now, but the Wolves feel like they have the Nuggets number and its intensity, defensive intensity, and Anthony Edwards just being a superstar in the making,

and like you said, no Rudy Gobert, and they're defensive, like they just have, the Wolves just have so many dudes that are so big, and they're just so, their arms are everywhere, they're defending the entire court, they're picking up Jokic, like like it's Jokic, you know, brings a ball up a bunch. They're picking him up at half court bothering him there and it does. It's an interesting subplot because the guy who helped build the nuggets, Tim Connolly is the GM for the Wolves and it feels like the Wolves are created to beat the nuggets and that's what they're doing and then you also have the factor of

Jamal Murray Just having an absolute meltdown throwing a heat pack on the floor People were very upset. I personally Can't get that upset about it because I and this is a flaw of mine And it's probably a flaw of how I parent as well If no one gets hurt, I don't really do any punishments. If there's not an injury, I'm like, all right, keep playing. It's fine. I get it. He should have done that.

It's a crazy move. But some people being like, someone could have died out there from that heat pack. It felt like a lot. The heat culture gone wrong. And when he threw it out there, it looked like he was throwing it at the ref. Did you see the zoomed in camera angle? They have like a Zapruder style film of it that zooms in on him. He's like behind the basket. He looks like he's trying to hit the ref. I'm willing to give this a pass because that's hilarious. If it had hit the ref, that would have been very funny. He probably, he probably would have been suspended for maybe two games if that had happened. Instead, they give him a hundred thousand dollar fine. Same

that Rudy Gobert got for doing the money sign to the refs. But it looked like, I don't think he was trying to throw it on the court. He was trying to hit the ref because he's pissed at the ref and it just slid out onto the court. And then everyone was like, oh weird, there's a heat pack on the court. And then you had a subset of people being like, this is the most dangerous thing that I've ever seen a player do in my entire Right. Exactly. It felt a little aggressive. Jamal Murray did the money sign as well. Oh, he did? Yeah.

He did the money sign about the refs as well. So he was having an all time meltdown performance where it's like, this is the interesting part because it is all credit to the Wolves. Like the way they're put, they're six and oh in the playoffs, they are playing like incredible team basketball. They as Kat told us, they're a big 15 and it feels that way when they're playing. But the interesting like subplot of all this is I think I use subplot twice. Sorry, I apologize. It's late. The interesting moment I'm waiting for for Friday night is this is the first time the

nuggets feel like they're really, really tested because if you remember last year, they beat the Wolves in five, they beat the Suns in six, they swept the Lakers, they beat the Heat in five. They have controlled the playoffs for the last year and a half, you know, obviously beating the Lakers and five now. Like what do you got? What are you? Are you guys do you have the championship medal because now the pressure is on you just lost two games at home. You had a total meltdown. Yokush does not look good and the Wolves are just better right now. Like

that's just what it is. They are the better team all around. Yes, all it's not. It's not really close. They've got two coaches to their coaches is sitting down with his torn knee and they have another coach managing like the in game shit going on for him. They're just they're getting out done in every facet of basketball right now. The games aren't close. I disagree that they haven't been tested though. They were tested in this playoffs. They were just tested

in the first half of every game. Yeah. And also Lakers almost beat them. Well, no, this is, this is now a great change to the narrative. Like how shitty are the Los Angeles Lakers? So shitty if they were getting beat by these nuggets, they shouldn't have even been in the playoffs. So so shitty.

And it was, uh, I'm happy we did that entire week of being like well The Lakers just had a really bad matchup with Nuggets No the West and we can go we can stay in the West the West is just Young and deep because the Thunder who hadn't played a game in forever came out like giddy likes it Yeah, they they came out giddy Yeah, I always feel so bad Jake didn't like that one. No, I didn't like that one. I always feel so bad for guys when they just, uh, like sag off them so much that there's like, go ahead, shoot. No problem. Yeah. We'll let you shoot. Like that's such an embarrassing

thing. If I were Josh giddy, I would just, I would try to just never be at the three point line because you know, they're just going to let you shoot and you're going to miss and it's going to suck. Uh. But the thunder there, I mean, I want to see wolves thunder at this point. Like it's two young teams that are so exciting. Hank's shaking his head because he thinks the cells can be both those teams very easily. Hank, you should listen to the Kirk Goldsberry interview because I might've said something that you'd be interested in. Uh, you

should, you should actually start rooting for the Nuggets. That's what I would do if I were you. He doesn't think the Wolves are a tough matchup for the Celtics. They're a tough matchup, but I'd rather face the Wolves or the Thunder or the Mavericks and the Nuggets still. Okay. Max disagrees. Yeah.

But anyway, the Thunder. I mean, Max doesn't know anything. I'm just talking about the Kurt Goldsberry interview. Yeah. Yeah. Wait till you get to Hank. The Thunder are so young and so much fun and it feels like like SGA was incredible in the first half and then you get to the fourth quarter. It's like, oh, we got another really young dude in Jalen Williams who's just gonna torch you and Lou Dortz everywhere. It's just like we

said this a couple weeks ago but if you're a Thunder fan, I it's it's under or wolves fan It has to be the like coolest funnest experience right now to watch your organic homegrown team Be super young and just dominating everyone. Well, yeah and just dominating everyone. Well, yeah. And why don't you shake your head? Because he's like, you're so because he's talking about the West tank.

We're talking about the West. Your team's not that young, Hank. You're kind of young. But this is like a new age. Jason's 19 years old age of thunder. And you've had it every single year. Hank, this is this is you. You had your moment like four years ago with the Celtics team

where you had fun and they're fun. Yeah. Let them let other people have fun. It's not always about you. It's it's say anything for the run. You shook your head. You know what you did. You shook your head. I know we'll get to cocky Hank. We'll get to cocky Hank. You have what you had a great game one. But listen, we invited cocky Hank back. So we have to embrace the fact that we're just complimenting the thunder and he's shaking his head like, yeah, take him. Listen, if you can't handle him at subdued, like game by game, Hank, then you don't deserve him a cocky. I want to call it.

We got a cocky Hank. I fucking love how much I fucking hate Hank right now. It's awesome. This is what we wanted. It really is. So I'm glad that you're back. You piece of shit. Yeah, I'm not mad. But yeah, the Thunder, the Mavs will, this will be a series, but the fact that the Thunder came out on, you know, all this off all this rest and played that well. I mean, they're just, they're fun. Chet Holmgren's fun to watch. They got just guys that are fun to watch, they're just they're fun. Chet Holmgren's fun to watch. They got just guys that are fun to

watch and they're all young. They scream after every play too. A lot of emotion. A lot of and the the t-shirts. My god, the t-shirts tonight in Oklahoma City. It looked like a college stadium. It looked like when uh when like Tennessee does the checkerboard in the stands. Some people wear one color like they were it was a perfect row of blue t-shirts and then a perfect row. Was t-shirts and then a perfect row was it was it uh orange or was it white tonight i forget but it was it was perfectly

done i didn't see a single t-shirt out of place they're they're the best at it um okay hank cocky hank time he was correct in he's on pace for his triple digits prediction. Bloodbath. For point differential in this series. The Celtics won by 25. You probably kind of wish they had maybe gone by like 35, so you get a little ahead of the pace. Yeah, I mean, they got up so much.

They took out the starters with a lot of time left. But 25 is good. We're on pace. We're on pace. This is a joke for you. Yeah, I mean, I said going in, they might drop one game, you know, Cavs will have a historic shooting night, beat him at home or something. But this should be a 4-1, if not 4-0. When did you know this one was over?

They didn't. They came out slow, honestly. They didn't shoot great in the first quarter. I was a little bit worried. I told you I loved I love the Celtics spread I love the Celtics first half and in the first quarter I think was tied late in the first quarter but you know they turned it on second half second quarter Derek White couldn't miss Jalen Brown couldn't miss probably like halfway through the second quarter that's that's the scary part is like Jalen Brown and Derek White were incredible Jason Tatum was not that great tonight, at least shooting. And they still.

Was 18. Yeah, right. I know. I mean, I don't think he hit a three. And he wasn't being super aggressive. But I'm not saying he played bad. I'm saying that they 25-pieced him when Jason Tatum wasn't on his A game, which is that a fair assessment? Luke, yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, he was he was facilitating.

This is also this is also part of the game. Yeah. Yeah. This is part of Cocky Hank. A great superstar player, you know, does what it takes to win. He sees that his other guys are having a good night and he just helps facilitate. It did feel like the most casual blood bath of all time. Yeah, and PFT, this is the part I forgot about cocky Hank. If you say that Jason Tatum, he didn't hit a three. He was 0 for 5 from 3. If you just state that, Hank will be like, well, fuck you. Yeah, he'll be like, what are you trying to say? And we're saying what Big Cat said was Jason Tatum didn't have his best night. I think we can all agree. That's a fact, right? No, not Derek, but Derek White was really good.

And Derek went in a plus 18 point differential. Like, yeah, that's a great night for Jason Tatum. Think about it this way, Hank. Like a couple of years ago, Derek White, he's improved so much in the last, like two years, three years of his game. Right. And he's very good. It's undeniable that Derrick White is a good player right now.

Sorry. He's a, he's a great player. He's a, he's, is he a great player? Is he a very good player? Finals MVP plus 4,000. If you want to get a long shot in early, that's kind of disrespectful to Jason Tatum that you're not betting on Jason. Well, he was over five from three PFT.

That's a good point big cat. Yeah. But I guess Hank's not a real fan, but the thing is like, they're, they're all playing well. So I, without Horford in for, for Christoph's Przingus didn't seem like it mattered that much. Plus you've got an extra dub that we'll get to in a little bit where you not only defeated the heat you may have just exploded heat culture

Because a j-butt and Pat Riley going back and forth. So you're just you're you're vanquishing all your foes right now You must be feeling really good. You're like Thanos. I think that that movie ends really well for Thanos. Mm-hmm I think the first one There's like part two was two parts right the first one. There's like part two is two parts, right? The first one. He he yeah, Hank does. He he did. Hank and I were driving up to Wrigley last night and I was like, who's going to who's going to play with Chris stops out

and he's like Horford, but it's going to really Lou Cornett's going to be an X Factor Hank knows ball. Look where he was. He was a beast on the boards. Yeah, he was. He was the X factor. It was very, very easy for you. And I look forward to many more easy games like this.

Last NBA game we got to talk about the Knicks Pacers game won. I feel bad for Pacers fans. Now, the Knicks are, I mean, Josh Hart had a billion rebounds. Dante DiVincenzo hit all the big shots. Jalen Brunson still is just playing out of his mind. So it's not taking away from the Knicks. The last two minutes did suck, though,

because it was just too much refs. And even if you're like, hey, I'm not saying the Knicks shouldn't have won. I'm just saying there was too much refs. The screen call that they called the legal screen, which I guess technically was wrong, but it happens every game. Like that, if you take that screen out of the NBA, Bam has to retire tomorrow because that's literally all he does is do that screen. He's got very long legs and they get in your way. Yeah.

Yeah. And so it sucked at the end and it sucked at the Pacers like they were I think it was what they had a chance They were down what one and then next thing, you know without even a possession happening They were because it was like Jalen Brunson foul before the inbound free throw then another Jalen Brunson So like it was game over it sucked and my biggest problem with this game is like it was game over. It sucked. And my biggest problem with this game is if you're going to have reviews that take these games so long and we review everything and it's like mind numbing, how the fuck can't you review a kickball? Because that was actually the thing the Pacers should be most upset about was that wasn't a kickball on knee Smith. He hit it with his hand and you just can't review it. And that was,

that led to Dante DiVincenzo's three. That was the moment that like, I can live with the screen because technically it was an illegal screen. The fucking kick ball that wasn't a kick ball, you should be able to review it. Well, it wasn't just that they, they can't review the kick ball. It was that the, the kick ball call took away a fast break probably would have been two points. At that point, it was a tie game. So not only was it the three that resulted right afterwards, but it denied the pace of the opportunity to take what seemed like it probably would have been a pretty easy lead for them to take at the time. So the fact that it was

called in the first place and then not being able to I don't know how they come up with these rules. I'm sure that's probably one that they'll look at in the offseason be like, Yeah, you should be able to review if it hit off his foot or not. I'm sure that's probably one that they'll look at in the offseason be like, yeah, you should be able to review if it hit off his foot or not. I don't know. But that it did stink. The moving screen call gave us all PTSD flashbacks of the the Yukon and Iowa semi final game in women's college basketball. Although that was a more egregious screen than the one in

the game last night, the Nick Spacers one. And I think that there should be a rule in basketball. If there's if there's an illegal screen, and you flop while you're going into the illegal screen, you should be able to get away with the illegal screen. Yeah, I agree. Sure. But if it take it like a man and deal with your inconvenience, and then they'll call it. But if you flop and you act like a fish out there, then they're like, you know what? You cheated too. Yeah. It's all I do it fight through all screens. Yeah. I just, when it comes to like instant

replay, I'm an all or nothing guy. I'm cool. If they said tomorrow, there's no instant replay and we're just going to go with whatever the refs say and the games will move faster and it will be smoother, I'm all for that. The minute that you start reviewing it, you got to review everything and get it right. Like you just do because that was such a stupid thing that they couldn't review. Oh, I'm not in favor of reviewing everything because I think that it's a slippery slope to like getting refs out of the game entirely And I like have refs Can you imagine if there was one night where they just said absolutely no instant replay? How how mad people would get at refs it would be like these refs think I'm just

Like don't do reviews for the majority of the game do reviews for the last three minutes I don't care do every review for the last three minutes. I don't care. Do every review for the last three minutes. Get it right. If you're gonna have reviews, just get it right. And then just have a play that you can't review that was clearly wrong. It makes no sense to me.

So I don't know. And then the Knicks lost Mitchell Robinson for I think the rest of the playoffs. They have no one, like they don't play a bench and they're just, it's all Tibbs like just we're going to fucking grind this and you guys are get ready to learn 48 buddy because that's every guy now. So they said eight weeks eight weeks. They said they're going to re-evaluate in six to eight

weeks. I looked at a calendar that appears to be the entire NBA playoffs. It's also really mean to do that because then everyone gets just replied. They're not going to, there isn't going to be eight weeks from now. Like he doesn't deserve that. Mitchell Robinson is fun to watch, but yeah, I mean, they're, they don't, they don't play the Mitchell Robinson played 12 minutes last night off the bench, Deuce McBride played 11. That's kind of it.

And now you lose one of them. So I don't know what the fuck they're going to do. Yeah. I mean that that could be a knock against Tibbs that like he doesn't play a lot of guys even during the regular season. So he doesn't have anybody that's ready to step up in case somebody gets hurt. These guys are ready to go though. In fact, the the fact that they're like I think that Tibbs is the one coach he just walks in and he's like you guys are all

playing 48 tonight like yeah, we've been waiting for this. Max are there any Villanova players that do not currently play in the NBA that could be picked up by the Knicks? Where's Chris Jenkins? Chris Jenkins is on the Villanova staff. Love Chris Jenkins probably not in NBA game shape right now. Scotty Reynolds. Scottie Reynolds. Scottie Reynolds could easily lace him up and put him out there. Easily. Haven't seen him in years, but there's always something about that guy.

He's a gamer. Yeah. Ryan Archidiakino was on the team earlier this year. I like that you're taking this experiment very seriously. I appreciate that. Connor Gillespie, him and TJ McCollum. Connor Gillespie's on the nuggets. Connor Gillespie's on the nuggets.

He's gonna be a good player in the NBA. That's a promise. That's an absolute promise. I'm done with this experiment. It's a promise. Hockey, real quick. 54 saves is a **** **** load of saves. She's stuck in on the Rangers tonight. Double overtime.

54 saves. We have our our standing on our head guy. It's just he's a he's a beast. Don't shut the **** up, Hank. You stop it. Yeah, you stop it, Hank. Listen. Alright, congratulations. I tweeted this out. I saw Hank liked it. It was not meant to be liked by you. Congratulations to both your Boston Celtics and your Boston Bruins on winning championships this year. What a magical spring this is for you. I'm very happy. I would just like to say, PFT, that I did place a pretty big future on the Bruins and the Celtics to win both Eastern conferences, parlayed. And when that hits, I will buy you a pair

of headphones that you can lean back in your chair. So nice of you. I promise you. Yeah. The story behind these headphones is I went to a real hot streak of buying headphones in airports before flights that didn't fit my phone. And so I've got these and I'm like, fuck it, I'm going to use them somewhere. So I've got these and I'm like **** it. I'm going to use them somewhere. So now I just have them dangling

off the side. I appreciate that Hank. You're such a generous guy. That's huge Hank. That's huge of you but yeah um are we allowed to say Sturken played well? Yeah. I mean he's also got I think that's like maybe the best hockey name going like

I I do that the fans chanting Igor, Igor. It's just a it's just a great Igor is just a great hockey name. Yeah and we commenting Igor. It's just a it's just a great. Igor is just a great Smash and there's a game going on right now. Oh, here's a fun game that we can do. Memes, memes didn't show up to this but he mushed Mr. Pear so hard.

Oh, so hard. Can tell you guys something that I'm I'm currently worried about and it's a it's kind of a personal thing but it's hockey related. I've gotten uh two random DMs from people in the last uh 24 hours. They've told me that today, Wednesday, a

veteran is going to retire. Oh man. And I'm worried about that and I'm sad I'm worried about I die before a Vetchkin retires. How about that? All right. I got you. I'm going to try to make you feel better. The Blackhawks got the number two pick tonight in the lottery. The Sharks got number one, so they're going to get Celebrini. I'm pretty sure, and this is all based off of our colleague Chiefs Tweets, who is a Blackhawks expert. I'm pretty sure that there's a Russian guy they're going to draft with the second pick. Maybe he's just the next O Vetchkin. Did that make you feel better? That you would get?

Yeah. How does he feel about Putin? I don't know. Is he a big Putin guy? That not help? NHL needs a big Putin guy. I don't know. It's going to be, that's going to be a big time like end of an era because I think unquestionably he's the best athlete in the history of DC sports. It's like him, Daryl Green. Probably that's probably Gilbert Arenas. Gilbert Arenas legend.

But anyways, that's just a personal thing I'm dealing with. We can talk about teams that are actually good now and still in the playoffs. But yeah, Hank's Bruins are awesome. Congratulations, Hank, on making the Eastern Conference Finals and winning the Eastern Conference Finals in both sports. Yeah. He's muted. Good, I like this. That was a great point Hank. You can take some money and buy a microphone that works to save you from cheap fuck. It's fun, you know, when you have these sessions, when it's every night playoffs, it's fun to kind of switch from underdog to favorite.

from underdog to favorite. Like hockey, hockey, hockey is going to be tough. Listen, it's tough to get an inch in the playoffs. As annoying as you are. I so much, so much love this more than, than what you were last week. This is great. This is podcasting boys. This feels like old school PMT. Just keep winning. I just imagine Hank like waking up on every alternate day. It's like it's us against the world and then the next day he wakes up. He's like fuck all these little pipsqueaks. We're dominant. Yeah. Bloodbath. Um right. Last two things I had. One, uh

football is back because we had the official first first sign of football being back when Schefter tweeted out the announcement of when the schedules are being announced. Best feeling ever. That's the sign. That's like the first leaf turning in the fall. Schefter has told us that there will be an announcement coming up. Yeah, but they haven't. They haven't even said when it's going to be right. No, I said next Wednesday.

It's next Wednesday. So we haven't we haven't exact because usually usually there's like a pre announcement where they say the NFL is getting ready to announce when the schedule will be released. So it's like an announcement for the announcement for the announcement. But yeah, I'm very, very excited because then you get to print it out. You get to look at it and you get to count every team is going to win 11 games next year. It's the best day. Yeah.

And then the last thing, well, should we do real quick? We probably have to. Austin Rivers went on a McPhee show and started the debate that I think we have probably every two years. He said there's 30 guys in the NBA right now that could play on an NFL roster and none that could play from the NFL on an NBA roster. I love these debates. They're my favorite.

I think we can all agree before we even dive into this that really we should be focusing on the fact that everyone on an NBA roster, NFL roster could play for the US men's national team and win us a World Cup. But these debates rock because we can't really ever figure it out, but everyone's going to spend an entire afternoon debating it. I'm very clear on my take, but I want to hear your guys take first and where it goes. All right. So my big problem with this debate is that he didn't bring this up in July. Yeah. This is the exact content that we need in July. You're way too early. The NBA playoffs are going on right now. But my take is, well, of course, Austin Rivers would think that guys in the NFL can't play

in the NBA because Austin Rivers can't even play in the NBA. And that's his sport. So I understand where he's coming from on that. I think that NFL players, there's probably no NFL players that could play in the NBA. There's been one guy, was Charlie Ward won the Heisman Trophy, and then he went on to have a very long career playing in the NBA. That was the one guy that's ever done it, and he was a very unique case. Do I need to remind people that people forget that Antonio Gates played college basketball, that Jimmy Graham played college basketball. These guys played college basketball. It was a skill set that translates to the NFL from football.

Most of them probably wouldn't want to get hit. Anthony Davis would probably break his neck putting on a helmet. But for the most part, you could find some of the bigger guys, more athletic guys, and they could play at least receiver or tight end. I don't know if there's 30 of them. I actually, I shouldn't be, I shouldn't be saying my, I want to hear what Jim Harbaugh has to say about this. Yeah. I'm sure he's got an awesome answer ready to go. Yeah. What were you going to say, Hank? There would be way more NFL players that could play NBA than reverse. You're insane. You're absolutely crazy.

So if we did this, so the parameters, because the argument changes and people. How many six-day guys are in the NFL? Hold on. Shift it around. But if you do, if the argument is simply, you have to play in, you have to make a roster tomorrow. So not like, oh, I get a year to get prepped.

There's no way 30 guys from the NBA could make a roster in the NFL tomorrow. I think maybe one or two could make a roster. And I'm talking like special teams, whatever. I'm not saying they're like a super impactful guy. There's zero guys on the NFL roster right now who could play on an NBA roster. That's a semantical argument because it's way easier to get a short term contract for

an NFL team when NBA like there's only 12 spots. That's the whole premise of the conversation. Big 15, big 15. No, but Hank, when we're talking about, by the way, if we're going to include special teams, I mean, Wimby, blocking kicks, just line up in the middle. Wimby and Chet, right down the middle. Hank, you think that, all right, so what do you want to do? What do you want to do to the time frame?

You want to do three months? Max. Jordan Milata got drafted without ever playing a down of football. Thank you. Antonio Gates played college basketball, not college football. Yeah. It's green, green, play college football. Okay. What's that supposed to prove? But have you ever heard of someone in the

NBA getting drafted without ever playing, like picking up a basketball before it happens in football? Like, like every other year you hear about someone from- Ben Simmons can't shoot. Okay, Ben Simmons is a great point, Hank. Ben Simmons can't shoot- But NBA won't have to shoot when you got a league. Radio Arundel can't shoot. Ben Simmons can't shoot in an NBA game. We've watched Ben Simmons every single summer in an empty gym not miss.

That's how good NBA players are. They're on a different level in terms of like they, they, you could get every guy on an NBA roster, put them in an open gym. They will not miss. They go to a game. They're shooting 40%, 30% Ben Simmons, whatever worse you put an NFL guy in an open gym. You think he's missing. He's missing. He doesn't have the same skill. There's skills. Athleticism is a, like a wash. NFL guys are getting upset because they're like, well, you don't think NFL guys are some of the best athletes in the world. I think NFL guys could probably play more sports than NBA guys in terms of just like, I've seen NBA guys try

to throw a baseball, NFL guys, it feels like a lot of NFL guys have played a lot of different sports. NBA, the height, the skill level with dribbling and shooting is on a completely different level that you can't just be like, oh yeah, this guy's tall. Oh, Devontae Adams is really awesome. He could play. I feel like it's not even close. Let's think about the difference though between the NFL and NBA players, right? Maybe the best NFL basketball player that I know of right now, big dude, Miles Garrett. You know how tall he is? He's 6'4". Correct. Okay, he's 6'4". He would be like a smaller guard in the NBA.

Steph Curry's 6'4". Miles Garrett would also foul out in five minutes if he played in an NBA game. And that's not because Miles Garrett isn't an insane freak of an athlete, he is. It's because these guys, like their movement, their steps, the way they, the pump fakes, like all those things that come into an NBA game, Myles Garrett would just like,

someone's like, oh, he would be able to lock down Chet Holmgren. Chet Holmgren would put 30 on him and he would be fouled out in a second. Now, a better question is, are there any NBA players that you think could play defense in the NFL, like be able to tackle and do all that? Marcus Smart maybe. I could see, I could see Westbrook.

I could see Westbrook as like a safety, maybe as a safety. And he's like the water boy where he, he just imagines the quarterback saying West Brick to him before every play and then he goes fucking nuts. I mean, Tyrese Maxey has NFL speed. He does like I, I think that the argument gets lost because people think that it's like a knock on NFL players is not NFL players are insane. And I again, I think the Austin Rivers comment makes no sense because I do not think 30 guys could go and want to take those hits and like have to deal with the toughness that takes to be in the NFL. It's just

the NBA. I feel like I don't know if you guys like watching an NBA player just play basketball with no one around. You just see you're like this is just so different than everything else. It's just so we got a guy in our, in our office, Mark Titus, who is like, he doesn't miss shooting and he's, you know what I mean? Like, and he didn't play at Ohio State. He played, I shouldn't say that, but he, there's so many levels to this. Hank, I can't believe you, you think that the NBA players, like I, I can't, I'm actually shocked by your take

I mean I was trying to do some some just Statistical analysis with mine based off of the numbers game But the numbers game aren't even in your favor. It's harder to make the NBA than it is the NFL But there's way more it's what again. I want to get I don't get roster shamed here 52 on the active roster But that's the reverse your arguments reverse that you could make an NBA player. Yeah. There's more chances to make a couple spots. Yeah. I guess I didn't really think about the reversal. I think, I think you were just, I think you were just trying to argue. I like that. That's what I think. Yeah. I'm gonna have to think about it a little more, but I do.

I just also feel like there's so many guys in the NBA are like, you point out the size thing. There's too many, like, there's too many tall people in the NBA that agreed to not be able to play NFL. Yeah, there's a ton of people in the NBA that would be able to play. That's what we're saying. Unless they're a receiver, what are you gonna do? We're saying it's very hard to do either one but if you had to

say which one could have a better chance, it's definitely the NBA translating to the NFL without a doubt. Hey, name one player in the NFL that you think could play in the NBA. I saw some Drake May high school highlights. Oh,

Cooper DeGene. Cooper DeGene could do it. Everyone says the high school highlights. Oh, Cooper. The gene could do it. Yes. The high school highlights. You know how far being a really good high school basketball player, someone who like Deandre Hopkins played basketball at Clemson. There was someone else who some key on Coleman. You retweeted. He on Coleman was like, yeah, he was not. He couldn't. I don't know if he wanted to like pursue basketball in Michigan State, but like being a good basketball player at Michigan State doesn't mean you're an NBA he was not he he couldn't I know if he wanted to like pursue basketball in Michigan State but like being a good

basketball player at Michigan State doesn't mean you're an NBA roster guy. There's still like a level to that. Hank. Yeah. That's the face Hank makes when he knows that he's wrong but he won't say I'm wrong. No, I mean you you you

made some good arguments. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna admit defeat but I'm gonna I'm gonna do some more research and then come back to you on Thursday. Okay. Okay II. I want more research. I just want one player. I wanna know one player that you think you do it. It's also it's like uh it's one of those yeah like like Stephen Shea uh tweeted uh uh Mike Evans Dunk. I would have to see

Lamar Jackson's jumper, but like. He's like 6'2". Mike, there was a... Yeah, but he's athletic as fuck. He's fast. Mike Evans dunking. He's got handles and a shot. I'll say this, Hank. Mike Evans said that he loved basketball and like was considering and he says that he thought he could play in the NBA. Mike Evans wasn't a top 100 recruit in high school like that's he's already the odds are completely stacked against him. I think James could do it he can do anything. And again I want it very clear Austin Rivers is an idiot. I do not think there's 30 guys in the NBA who could play in the NFL tomorrow. I think there's like one or two. There's zero in the

NFL who could play in the NBA tomorrow. That's the whole point. Also, you, the, uh, do you know who, you know who I thought of right away? Because remember the avalanche just won. Congrats. The Avs getting game one. Remember Joseph Fourier, the Lions tight end, who was 6'7, 250 and he played like two years for the Lions and all he did was goal line package and he would just stand there and he would catch a touchdown. Like I think his rookie year he had 18 catches and seven of them were touchdowns. If Giannis was in goal line package and you just split him out wide and you just threw him a jump ball. How does he not? How is that not a touchdown every time?

That's what I'm saying. Like like Wimby just in terms of putting him on an island and being like here, I'm going to throw the ball as high as I can. And no one's going to just put Wimby back there on Hail Mary's right to just to you would never get scored on, on a long pass like that. The size is a real issue because you have to be insanely skilled to play in the NBA if you're undersized, if you're like less than six, four, I would say you have to have just out of this world, next level skills compared to even the greatest basketball players that are currently in the NBA to, to make it happen with a career. So I, I don't think it's even like a remotely close conversation. There's probably, I would say there's maybe, maybe 10, I could see there being 10 guys

in the NBA that if you gave them a year to train and if they loved it, that other question is like, would they like playing football? No, they might just, they might just like this sucks. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Joe Burrow won a high school championship as a freshman, uh, division two, Southeast district player of the year, senior year, four year varsity letterman, great court vision. He would definitely have. Okay. That's the last time he played ball. Well, I mean, he focused on football, but it's like, if he focused all that energy on basketball, I'm sure he, but that's what we're saying. pro NBA players. If they focused on on football, there's probably like a handful of them that just by their size and athleticism could find a spot. So many positions you all you

have to do is run. Okay, here here. Here's here's Hank. Here's here's part of the argument. If you took the measurables of like NBA players and you had him like do all of the combine drills NFL there would be a lot of NFL scouts who'd be like kind of like what Max was saying like oh that guy's got the raw athleticism he's a project we take him if you take all the NFL players and put them in the NBA combine you'd have to eliminate almost 70% of them just based on height immediately.

Probably more than that. Probably more than 70% and then you'd watch them shoot and you'd probably get rid of another like 95% of them. And then you have Joe burrow and then Joe give you Joe burrow just because we love Joe burrow. But Hank, I would like you to do some more research and maybe look it up. I did like everyone just falling for the trap where they were like Antonio Gates. It's like, yeah, he played basketball

at Kent State. He was so far away from the NBA and he's a Hall of Fame tight end. That's the exact opposite argument that you should be making. Wait, they were doing the Antonio Gates as an example that proves the point of why NFL player could. Yeah. Okay. That's, that's, that's really bad logic even for the internet. I'm impressed. It was really bad logic. They're like, Oh, Antonio Gates could hoop. It's like, no dude, he was, he played basketball to his maximum ability and then was like, Oh shit, I'll be a tight end and be a hall of Famer. Yeah. Yeah. It's the best ever. I do. I you're right that we need this to happen. Probably not

the best ever. One of the best ever for that era. We needed this in July but uh this this would be the perfect like all start MLB All-Star Game Week conversation to have. Yeah. So, we'll we'll do it again but yeah. Sound off in the comments. Tell us why we're wrong. This is these are my favorite hypotheticals because we would never find it out um and also a hockey player, a hockey player could play in the comments. Tell us why we're wrong. This is these are my favorite hypotheticals because we would never find it out. Um, and also a hockey player, a hockey player could play in the NBA. I loved, I loved the

hockey players, hockey guys chiming in. It was like one out of every 20 tweets being like, try to put any of these guys on skates, wouldn't be able to do it. No shit. Yeah. Uh, also you you just everyone should know that Will Compton is the one who's pushing this hard and his brain doesn't really work. Wait, Will Compton saying that NFL players could play? Yeah, you said they could dominate. Well, he will Compton did a very smart thing. He changed the argument. He

changed the debate completely to who would do better an entire NBA team of NFL players or an entire NFL team of NBA players. So basically saying, imagine if we had all the NBA players try to block TJ Watt. And then it's just obvious, like, okay, that makes no sense. I think both teams would get smoked. If you had all players play against the best NBA team, they would get fucking 50 piste. I want Will to dive deeper into this wormhole and to do an NBA team of all the best white NFL players against an NBA team of all the best black NFL players and which one would win across the breakdown time. He'll get there. He'll get there. All right, we're gonna kick it to ourselves. We got two interviews. Uh Kirk Goldsbury, Vern Lundquist. We also have Hot Seat Cool Throne and Pardon Your Take on uh back in studio

before we kick it to ourselves though. Uh quick word. Uh everyone probably when we're PLL guys, uh the tragedy in Mexico, Callum Robinson, his brother and his friend. Uh really, really, really sad story. There is a GoFundMe uh for the families. Can we, I think we can probably pin it to the videos. Um so, if you, you know, if you're a lacrosse guy, really, really sad. Um and you know, we we love the PLL and so anything that you wanna give, we appreciate it and uh

Hank, you got anything with that? Yeah, we'll share all the links. Absolutely heartbreaking stuff. They were just on a surf trip. Carter, the other guy, the friend of the Robinson's, he was about to get married. So there's some GoFundMe for the brother, one for Carter. We'll share all the links. And I'm sure everything, everything is appreciated.

Just a very, very sad story. Yeah. Yeah. Donate if you can feel like it. It's, it's terrible. They were just, they were trying to have fun. And, uh, I don't, I think they're still investigating what happened, but it sounds like they caught the people that did it, which is, I guess that's good news. Um, cause they're off the streets there, but yeah, it's, it's, it's heartbreaking. And families over in Australia right now, obviously just in a, uh, can't be in a good place right now. So if you can help them out, that'd be appreciated. Yeah, we'll donate

to Yeah. Okay, let's kick it back to ourselves in studio. Okay, hot sea cool throne is brought to you by our friends at Coors Light. hot sea cool throne is presented by Coors Light. There are plenty of chances in life to make things better by choosing chill. Grab every opportunity to choose Chill, then reach for a refreshing Coors Light. When mountains turn blue, it's as cold as the Rockies. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, cold-packaged for a smoother finish. When you embrace a Chill mindset, it's a good time to choose Chill. Crack open a Coors Light. Coors Light's mountain cold refreshment, crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. We love Coors Light. It is the best beer out there.

So make the most out of times you choose to chill. Choose Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door with Instacart by going to CoorsLight.com slash take. Celebrate responsibly Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado. Henry, hot seat, cool throne. My hot seat is Jimmy Butler. Oh, we should talk

about Jimmy J. But old J. But old J. But he culture absolute shambles. Pat Riley did a press conference at the end of the season. Asked about Jimmy Butler trolling when he wasn't playing. And he said, if you're not in the court playing, you should keep your mouth shut. Kind of agree with that. I don't disagree with Pat Riley saying that because you're going up against the Celtics and for a guy that's not playing to be like, yeah, you know, we expect to beat him every time and to be like talking that shit and then not having to be the one that backs it up. I, I think Pat Riley is probably correct about this. I don't know. I mean, Jay, but is pretty hardheaded himself, but he might just be like,

yeah, you know what? Pat's right. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm way off on that. I'm going to disagree. I think Jay Butt will probably, cause there's also the contract thing going on right now where I think Jay Butt is got two years left, extension time. Is he bigger than he culture? I also, I saw a tweet from, it's, it's from one of those like NBA central, like not a hundred percent legitimate source. No, it's, but it's called remember when I thought dream on a ball sack jewelry, the dunk central is the, the at so it said that the 76ers are the favorites to land Jimmy Butler in a potential trade. Oh, that's interesting. So can you imagine how good the sixers would be if they had Jimmy Butler on them? And Embiid?

Man, that would be a great team. Actually, that's the one sliding doors moment. Tyree Smacks wasn't on that team. Yeah. It would be a different team. If Jay Butt had been on the six. Jay Butt, if he was on the Sixers the last, what, four years, I think they'd get a title. So yeah.

Yeah, probably. So Jay Butt has two years. The second year is a player option with the Heat, so he's definitely in that zone of, I'm ready for an extension. I'm about to be 35. I would like to get paid a lot more money. He gets paid a lot of money, but that's how it works the NBA. And then Pat Riley has to decide whether he is too big for heat culture. I just, it has to suck. I feel like Jimmy Butler is such a shit talker, which motivates him and makes him be a great player.

But there has to be a small part of you that's like when I shit talk and I'm not playing and then I watch my boys get their asses kicked, that's gotta suck. But it might, Jimmy Butler might be the one guy who's like, nah, I'll still shit talk and I'm not playing and then I watch my boys get their asses kicked, that's gotta suck. But it might, Jimmy Butler might be the one guy who's like, nah, I'll still shit talk. He'll shit talk his team for not having the balls to go out there and back up his words.

I also love Pat Riley just anytime he gets behind a microphone to roast people. Pat Riley is a cool guy. He's probably the coolest old guy in America right now. Well, he also... He's like a mob boss. He's a mob boss and whatever they decide to do with Jimmy Butler, like, the Heat somehow have just... other than a couple years since they drafted D Wade have never really been

bad, which is pretty remarkable. Yeah. They just always... they always find a way to get new guys that are really good and fit Heat culture, so maybe it's just the time has passed. Heat culture with Jimmy Butler no longer a good merit. I saw a clip from Shaq's podcast where he was on the Heat. I think Jason Williams was late for practice. Pat Riley told him to get the fuck out and then Shaq spoke up for him. He was like, no, no, it's cool. He's just a minute late. He told Shaq to get the fuck

out and then one of the guys in the locker room That's close to Pat Riley was like, yeah, you know, here's the u-haul address You're gonna be getting boxes soon enough And then he did they got a call later the afternoon like you were getting ready releasing you trading or whatever and he was so mad He tried to show back up to the facility in Pat Riley You had 35 cops there like and they're like, yeah, we're told you can't come in That's what I'm saying. Like he Pat Riley just he knows heat culture and he knows when it's expired. I think the yeah for the heat in the last it feels like 20 years their their floor has been

better than you expect them to be. Correct. That's as bad as it's four, five, three, seven trips. They beat the Celtics every year. Seven trips to the NBA title. Yeah, they did choke. They did choke. Well, they turned off the air conditioning in San Antonio. Yeah, but I mean, they've been very, they've been a very well-run organization

under Pat Riley, I would say. So I will side with, if the divorce happens, I'll probably side with Pat Riley just based on the fact that he's proven time and time again he can make the heat good. The worst decision they've made, the only bad decision that I can think of is that they retired Jordan's number.

Yeah, total cock move. Total cock move. Big time cock move. Total cock move. All right, your cool throw? Cool throw is the Met Gala. Yeah. Yeah, Met Gala. Do we know what goes on at the Met Gala? We've been trying to figure this every year seven years. I think yeah

No, they just talked about what happened outside the Met Gala. There's just rich people show up in There's some theme. What was the theme this year sleeping beauty sleeping beauty? Oh, no garden of time garden of time Oh that explains Ben Simmons briefcase that had the giant clock on it that look I thought he was carrying a bomb in there Yeah, cool clock Bring it. I thought he was carrying a bomb in there. Yeah. Cool clock. Want to bring it to school on that? Yeah, the Met Gal is weird.

I don't. Who are your guys' favorite looks? I like Dead Sheeran. He looked like he was in Dumb and Dumber a little bit. I like the guy who was wearing just an umbrella. That's something I would like to wear. You couldn you just you couldn't even see the person underneath it That's kind of a fat woman that wore sand. No, I did not see the woman that wore sand. How do you wear sand? I Don't know what she did. Should he get carried up the stairs cuz she like couldn't by the way

Oh and loved Lizzo live Lizzo was serving looks last night. Yeah, did you see her? She looked like a paper bag? Uh She did. She was in Star Wars. I wanted to tip her out. I made her out and she looked like a Star Wars character. If you tipped her out and poured her over, I would think that there would be some sort of cheap gas station liquor that would come out of her. Can I say an idea that people cannot steal because it's a great idea that someone tweeted

at me that we're going to do? Yes. So legally, no one's allowed to steal this. Who's listening right now? This is from Millie Goats. He tweeted me last night, I think, and I talked to Dave about it, I think we're gonna do a bet gala at some point this year.

Where we invite some famous people and we just bet every single game on the board and we dress up. That'd be pretty good, right? That's a good idea. We should come up with a theme. Yeah, we need a theme. I don't know.

I think just betting, gambling on sports. Yeah. Let's see, the fried food. That'd be good. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good theme. Everyone dresses up like the French fry. Blue.

Blue. Blue is a good theme. You'd be good at this. Yeah. I'll be a chair. I need to see the, is this the lady that dressed up as sand? That doesn't look like sand. That's not sand. That's the hottest sand I've ever seen

Yeah, I would yeah if that's sand then All the skin on my dick is gone. Mm-hmm. That's some good sand great sand. Yeah, okay good hot seat cool throne Hank Thanks. Yeah Yeah, Hank's really good at taking her hot seat cool thrones. I did have the Met gal as well I think Hank just sits down he thinks I don't think he thinks about what he should say for hot seat cool throne I think he sits down ponders What do you think big cat and PFT will say correct and then that's what he comes up with correct? So my hot seat is gonna be Giselle

Giselle was not happy with the roast. Yeah nor was Aaron Hernandez his Wife that was a wild quote by Aaron Hernandez his wife I like I feel bad for her in the fact that her life, you know is Aaron Hernandez's wife. That was a wild quote by Aaron Hernandez's wife. I feel bad for her in the fact that her life, the father of her children and her fiance turned out to be a serial killer and then killed himself in prison. Probably not the easiest last few years for her,

but her reasoning of my daughter someday has to watch these jokes and the hero that she thought her dad was is going to be pierced. I feel like the murder part would probably be the part where he wasn't a good guy. Yeah, just a quick Google search. I'll take care of it for her. The jokes really weren't the problem. I think it's the murder that probably, like, one day she's going to be like, oh, he wasn't a great guy. Yeah, she said, it's sad I'm trying to raise my children in such a cruel world. He murdered probably four people.

Yeah. That's pretty cruel. That is cruel. And also she's kind of making the implication that she's really the only one that's harmed by these jokes. Correct. Like in the entire world. Correct.

It's just her and she's like, that sucks for me. I'm sure it does suck for her to have to hear people. But also if you're her, why would you tune into the Tom Brady thing? Yeah. Also. That feels like you're opting in to specifically hearing jokes about your dead husband. In the people I feel bad about the most

would be the loved ones of the people who are murdered who have to hear the jokes. Yeah. That would probably be the front of the line of like murdered who have to hear the jokes. Yeah. That would probably be the front of the line of like, oh, that's gotta suck. Yeah. You know what sucked for OJ Simpson's children was Norm MacDonald. That was probably when they figured it out.

That was the worst time. That was the worst time. But yeah, Gisele's not, she's not happy either. Also, she should have been the last person to be there. Should have been there. Yeah, she should have been there. She should have roasted him. Also, who?

Gisele. If Gisele had roasted Tom Brady, it would have been there. Yeah, she should have roasted him. Also, who? Giselle. If Giselle had roasted Tom Brady, it would have been great. Obviously, it would have been awkward, but would have not been great. No. Yes, it would have. I don't think she would have gone, because she just would have just told the truth to him.

Yeah, tell the truth. And that would have been great. But she avoided a major shot when Bert and Tom did the whole breakdown of what a bad guy Tom Brady is. And they said, they started talking about her. They didn't address the fact that she's like a six foot two stunning German model whose family immigrated to South America in the middle of the century. They really, she avoided a major shot with that one. Imagine if she had just walked out and been out and been like Tommy never made me came or come

No, they would been better boom roasted if she said it that way. Yeah came Tommy never made me came You never made me came boom roasted. See ya that would have been great. Yeah, I can't make you come in myself come by the way From the fallout of the Tom Brady rose. I like that The it does feel like Tom Brady was being serious when he said no more craft jokes. Yes, yeah. People thought that was maybe fake, but the fact that there was never another craft joke

made it seem real. Which, even more respect to Tom, because he just let all the other jokes fly. Yeah, yeah, I think Nikki Glaser went on, Howard Stern said the only things that were off limits were craft and Tom's kids, which I'm fine with that. Well that's, well, maybe not the craft part, but the kids totally fine with that. The craft part, I feel like he should have, you can make fun of Robert Kraft. Yeah, you can. That's punching up. You can make fun of the hand job. She even said in her reason

why that she didn't make fun of him because he is so old and powerful. Yeah. It's like, those are really exactly who you got to make fun that you should be making fun of. Correct. Correct. I like the people that are saying Tom Brady like saved comedy. Will Compton by letting people by letting people do that. I saw some other people. Okay. Yeah. Oh, till. Yeah. Taylor Luan. Yeah. And Will Compton both agreed we can save comedy and say the word gay again. It's okay. Save comedy. Yeah. Yeah, that was a great roast. It was a great roast. It was very funny. And I'm happy that Belichick never

shook Robert Kraft's hand. Yeah. Yeah. My cool throne is Boeing. Boeing's on the cool throne because another whistleblower died. So this makes two. This makes two in the last six months.

This guy, he got some sort of a bacterial infection that it progressed within two weeks, and he died. And so it's like two out of the 60 or two out of the 50 that have come forward against Boeing are now dead. So one by one. Did he testify or did he not testify? I don't know what the schedule was like for his testifying, but he was in the process of being a whistleblower.

I think we just need to rebrand whistleblowing. Yeah. Because right now you hear whistleblowing you're like, ref. It feels yeah, it feels like Boeing there's something definitely something going on. Yeah, I would say so for the last like five years. I'm not suicidal. Neither am I. The planes have been crashing. I did see one guy say he just tweeted he's like, hey, Boeing, he added Boeing. He's like, my bookie's been talking a lot of shit about you guys. Yeah. Like that tweet.

Yeah, Boeing is the new Hillary. Yeah. So this is just a heads up. All right. My hot seat is Scottie Scheffler because the PGA Championship is next week and he still doesn't have a baby. Interesting. I, we've discussed this many, the baby thing that was not Skysheffer's fault it was the media's fault for basically forcing him to say

he would leave even though his wife was not even close to being due but doesn't it apply for PGA Championship now? Like not playing in this week's Wells Fargo. Right. Which I'll be calling on the PGA Tour live. Okay. But the... That's a PGA Tour event. Right. So, but isn't that... aren't we getting close?

We're a week and a half away and there's no baby. It'd be funny if you said, yeah, you know what? The Masters is one thing, but if she goes into labor during the PGA Championship, I can't leave. That tournament's too important to me. It's way too important, especially after winning the Masters. He's got to... yeah, now he has to show up to that. Yeah.

Some eggplant parm. I heard Whitney say that. Some Thai food. That's what does it, eggplant parm? Yeah. Step off a curb. That could do it. Yeah, Mac said uneven surfaces.

Yeah. What if you just have sex again? Could just do that. Yeah. Then you might have twins. Yeah, that's how it works. All right. And my cool throne, a story that I don't know why it's not talked about more. Josh Hart and injuries because this is a tweet from April 7th from the reporter Fred Katz from

New York. He does athletic. He said, Josh Hart said when he took a half court heave to end the second quarter is early April He felt his wrist click and it almost clicked back into place said he went to Brunson at the half and told him I can Shoot threes now This is basically the plot is rookie rookie the year exactly and Josh Hart has been shooting a lot better from three and he's been scoring a lot more. Is Josh Hart just like, did one injury to his wrist make him a superstar? I think it's funny that Josh Hart was so bad at shooting threes that he got injured and it improved his shot actually. Yeah. Maybe Caitlin Clark could learn a lot from Josh Hart. Maybe fall off her bike at one point and fix her mechanics. So Josh Hart is a career 31% or 34% three point shooter. Or no, sorry, I'm reading that's

his field goal percentage. Either way, in these playoffs, he's a career, he's like in the thirties, in these playoffs, he's shooting 43% from three. Mm hmm. That's crazy. Yeah, it's not his wrist clicked and he's now can score. Maybe it's also Tibbs just playing him every single minute of every single game, which I love. He's finally gotten good enough at basketball where he can shoot a three. But it like why isn't this being talked about more?

He Josh Hart is now just a lethal three point shooter because his wrist clicked. Yeah, that's gotta make sure his wrist doesn't re click. Yeah, that would be bad But it's also making me just think about injuring myself until I get good at things, right? You never know every injury you have might be a blessing in disguise We should just start breaking our wrists Hank Maybe if you slit your Achilles tendon, you'll be able to dunk. You might as well try if you get desperate We'll do it for you. Yeah, we're like November and then I'll start doing the crack science shit crack science

I like it's just start injuring yourself with a scottie shuffler thing that reminded me of Charlotte the pregnant stingray. Yep, allegedly I just looked her up bitch still ain't giving birth She was never pregnant and now people are catching on now the youths are on finally now Tick-tock is all over this shit. Finally, you got all the kids out there question this bitch Remember we were questioning a long time ago Yeah, so credit to us Jake your hot seat cool throw my hot seats myself. I'm gonna take accountability here Oh, yeah Big time we talked about it earlier in the show we talked about the game

But there was a baby bump that I did not alert you guys on you know Brandon Carlo of the Boston Bruins had a baby, flew down to South Florida and scored a goal. Yeah. Against your hometown team. Yeah. And disappointed in my. Listen, Jake, don't beat yourself up. It's not like he had like crazy odds to score a goal. 13 to one. Jesus Christ. And it's not like everyone then tweeted us after being like, did you guys bet it? Did you guys bet it? Did you guys bet it? So, at least that didn't happen. It felt personal, Jake.

Well, now's a good time to get redemption and tell you that Rudy Gobert just had a baby. Okay, so should we score? Goal. Score a goal. Rudy, go score a goal. Score a goal. Yeah, no, that was a huge, huge miss. Could have really used that winner.

So, I'll pay you guys back. Thank you. How? I don't know. I used that winner. So I'll pay you guys back. Thank you. How? I don't know. Yeah, no, you can't. I need $13,000. You can't. You're never going to be able to pay back for that one.

That one was a butterfly effect. All losses for the next month are kind of on you. Great. My cool throne is moms. This is a PSA. Get your moms. Mother's Day. This is a PSA, get your moms Mother's Day this Sunday. Yes.

So just a reminder for literally all the AWLs. We got some stuff in the Barstool store. Just make sure you don't show up empty handed Sunday. It kind of sucks that Mother's Day is the same weekend that we changed the clocks. That's the only thing that sucks. Yeah, because. To get one less hour of Mother's Day.

Yeah, it's too bad. Sorry moms. One less hour of Mother's Day. Yeah, it's too bad. Sorry, moms. One less hour of sleep. Yep. So... Really, it should be the opposite. Yeah, it should. We should move the clocks back for Mother's Day instead of moving them forward. And Father's Day. Yeah. What do you think, Hank? This sucks.

Right. Yeah. I genuinely... Yep. That's why they did the Met Gala with the whole time thing. Just to remind everyone. That was actually... He was paid by big clocks. Yeah. How did he get the invite? That's a good question. I don't know. I think the A list of a listers. I think if he just, he had a lot of time. Yeah. He's a lot of time.

He's not like he's playing basketball. So he's got a lot of time. And he probably, that's probably something you have to agree to months ago. And he was like, oh Mid, you know may no problem. Yeah got no problem being there No prior commitments that I can foresee. Okay, so Mother's Day make sure you get your mother's something Get get him a free subscription to pardon my take. Well, we'll make it it will make a Graphic we'll put out a graphic We'll make it. We'll make a graphic. We'll put out a graphic maybe on Friday's show. One free subscription to all mothers.

Because we love moms so much on this show. I love moms. I love moms. Yeah. Okay. Good job. Hot Seat Cool Throne, everyone. Let's get to some interviews with Vern Lundquist and Kirk Goldsberry. PFT before we do to go to Vern Lundquist. Let's go. Vern Lundquist is brought to you by our great friends over at Part of My Cheese Steak. We had a bunch of Part of My Cheese Steak last week. It's so good. It's so good. I love everything on the menu there. The Buffalo Chicken Cheese Steak is one of my personal favorites. I like the

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Order yours now at partinmyicheesesteak.com. It's partinmicheesesteak.com and you can use promo code PMC20, PMC20 for 20% off your order at participating locations. And now here's Vern Lundquist. Okay, we now welcome on a very, very, very special guest and absolute legend of the game. It is Vern Lundquist. He is the voice of many of our favorite memories in sports. Uh, Vern, first of all, thank you so much for joining us. And the first question I had, maybe the

toughest question you just retired. Can we get you out of retirement because we don't want to lose Vern Lundquist and you calling some of the greatest moments of our lives? I think it's a little late to call Kings X, especially because CBS was so kind and all of my colleagues were at Augusta two weeks ago. It was a lavish goodbye, which was deeply appreciated by me. But I've told a couple of other folks, I'm 83 years old. I have a mild case of COPD. I have a mild case of type two diabetes. I have sleep apnea and I cannot remember what I had for breakfast.

So other than that, I have no issues whatsoever. We can get over those. Listen, if they just do, if they just have a verne lung quiz opt in broadcast, I would opt in every single time. It's like, Hey, he might, he might not, he might not call it perfectly, but it doesn't matter. We just want to hear your voice. Well, I appreciate that guys, but, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sidle off into retirement. Uh, my wife and I have been married 42 years. We celebrated our first anniversary in Augusta in 1983 and, uh, we celebrated our 42nd there, uh ago. So not only for me but also for my wife Nancy it's a very very very special place. Yeah yeah and I think you

made it more special for everybody else that's been watching it. I don't know if the chicken or the egg situation but maybe all those all those great moments happened on 16 because Vern was there in his little tree stand looking down and you cut you made all that happen. But did you ever think that the very last thing that we would see at Augusta is a picture of Tiger Woods shaking hand with a tree and people saying, Tiger bidding farewell to the goat, Vern Lundquist, and it's just a tree with a hand sticking out of it. Well, there's another view of that meeting.

And I understand that Tiger was on Jimmy Fallon's show last week. I'm not sure when it was. But I've seen video of it. And there was great sport made of the fact that he's seen me. I was behind a tree. And there is another shot of Tiger and me. I was behind a tree and there is another shot of Tiger and me. Guys, I had three goals going into what I knew was going to be my last one. I wanted

to meet Scotty Sheffer. I'd never met him. I did that. I wanted to say goodbye to Tiger. I was able to do that. And I also wanted to say, and then to thank Tiger and to say goodbye to Jack. And I was able to do all three. So, uh, mission accomplished as the old television show used to say. Yeah. I mean, so it's talking about the master specifically. Um, obviously the golfers hit the shots, but do you, I know you're a humble guy, but have you had a moment where you could step back and be like, my call of some of these iconic moments specifically the tiger chip in, like that's what elevates a sports moment to something

that I, your, your voice is just like bouncing in my brain when I think about that shot. And have you had a moment where you're like, that's pretty cool that I am so intertwined with some iconic, iconic sports moments? Yes, believe me. And I think as a broadcaster, first of all, I get it if you're a sports commentator or broadcaster or announcer or whatever term you want to use. Yes, down distance, fact who has the ball, what's the pitch count, that's all important. But essentially, we make our living as storytellers. And I think your purpose in doing this is to give the viewer or the listener a reason

to care about the outcome. And you do that by narratives. And you do that by telling stories, anecdotal information, both good and bad, positive and negative about the people involved, the teams involved, or the management involved. And that's what draws people into the broadcast. And I think if you can humanize the people

who are appearing in front, then you've accomplished your job. And more often than not, I've been blessed. First of all, you go to a sporting event and I've done it now for 61 years. I started here in Austin, which is my hometown. But you hope that something memorable breaks out and then you pray to the heavens that you're capable

of adding commentary that is purposeful and suitable for the topic. And I've been blessed in that sense because I've been lucky enough to have those moments break out and then to find the adequate words more often than not. Yeah. Yeah, you've done a great job with that.

I've also been impressed over the years when you know when to let a moment breathe, when to not talk over something important that's happening if you want to give the people a sense of the atmosphere and the stadium on the course, wherever you happen to be calling it. Is that something that you made a conscious effort to do where you could just understand and feel when, hey, maybe it's time for me to take a step back and let the moment speak for itself. I had three mentors. The oldest of whom I doubt you guys have been made aware of.

He was the voice of the Green Bay Packers. His name was Ray Scott and he passed away 25 years ago, I guess. I was lucky enough to get to know Ray. He was one of the announcers on the first one or two Super Bowls. But here, when Bart Starr and Boyd Dowler were the stars of the Packers back in the 60s, and here was the typical Ray Scott call. Starr, Dowler, touch it. Well, hell, they can see what's going on. You don't need a whole lot more than that for that moment. The other was the late Frank Gleiber, who's long forgotten, and that is a pitiable shame.

Frank was a friend and a mentor of mine. We lost him at the age of 51. He died of a heart attack while jogging,, but he he was a master of all trades and he said to me once Vern if they ever ask you to do anything They being that works for us and I've worked for ABC CBS and TNT for a short time if they ever ask you to do anything Say yes, and then watch videotape of other guys who've done it, whom you think do it well, and borrow liberally. And so I've done that. And then the third was Pat

Sumerall. I was lucky enough to work with Pat for 25 years. He was the best I've ever seen at Counterpunch. He, you know, he made magic with John Madden for so many years. And Pat's assurance in his own craft allowed John to wander all over the place. And the guy from the truck, Bob Stenner, producer, Sandy, having a senior moment here, Sandy Grossman, his director. John was the greatest one I've ever seen at Mastering Manu show. And he could make something out of nothing. But Pat always had the perfect counter punch

to bring, you know, it's third and eight. So I mean, John get back to the business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Pat was a minimalist too. So those three guys, I tried to emulate over the course of my career. Yeah. All right. I got a dumb question for you. You have an all time great big game voice and it might be a chicken and egg thing, but I do think your voice is phenomenal. And when you listen to a Vern Lundquist game, it feels like a big game. When did you know in your life that you had that voice? Was there a moment where like, Oh, I got something special here? Yeah, I'm a genetic product. My dad was a Lutheran minister and he died 25 years ago but my dad had a great voice and fortunately I was born in the Midwest, in Duluth, Minnesota. We lived there for two years. Then we moved

for he was a senior. I was born when he was a student pastor and then he enrolled in the Lutheran School of Theology in Rock Island, Illinois. And my first memories were there. But I'm the oldest of five. And his first church was in Everett, Washington. We then moved to Austin, Texas when I was 12. And then my dad and mom moved to Omaha and Nebraska

where they both passed away. But I'm the oldest of five and I'm the only one of the five who didn't get that dad gum Texas accent. I mean my brother, it takes him two minutes to say yes sir. I mean, God can be drawled out. And fortunately I've got a Midwest accent, which I think is desirable as sports commentary. You don't want to offend the middle of the country and you don't want to draw attention. You don't want to sound like you came from Boston or Brooklyn either, or be super cool and pretend like you came from LA. But I'm the genetic beneficiary. and the laugh is the same thing.

He had this huge laugh and I inherited that. Sometimes I laugh at inappropriate moments, but that's okay. It's who I am. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any moment because we broadcast for a living. We do this show and Sometimes five minutes after we're done. We're done. I might be getting in my car

I'm like, oh I should have said this and I remember it Is there is there any call that you've had where you're leaving the stadium and you think to yourself? I wish I had changed that just a little bit and said this instead of that Well, I've made mistakes and those are the ones you regret. I mean, I'll never forget. I was doing a Buffalo Bills broadcast, and they had a number 86 and a number 89. And when they were going from the television commentary

booth, they were going right to left so I could see the 8, but I couldn't see the six or the nine. And I had the wrong number. And it was like an 80 yard touchdown pass. And I felt like an absolute fool when they took a close up of the guy. And I had the wrong call. Jake Reed was one of them who was involved.

But when you, and when I was doing the SEC for all those years, so help me God, I'd make mistakes of identification. And that's when you feel dreadful. Yeah. And you're not doing the job for which you were hired. And we all make them. It's live. It's a live telecast. But you want to be prepared. God, you feel awful when that happens. Just awful. And it stays with you for a couple days. Well, I would say that you've had a lot more iconic moments, and one of them being in the SEC, the kick six. So after that happens, how long were you like buzzing off of that? Because it was such an incredible moment and your call was so perfect for it. I mean, you must have been on Cloud9 having a moment like that happen in front of you.

Yeah, I was. I was. Two weeks before that, we had done Auburn and Georgia. My partner was Gary Danielson. Auburn had the lead and no, Georgia had the lead and Auburn had a fourth down and 18 at their own 25 yard line and the quarterback guy named Nick Marshall threw the ultimate Hail Mary and the two Georgia guys went up and instead of going, it was fourth and 18 for crying out loud, knocked the ball down. But they both tried to intercept it. They tip, they bumped into each other, tipped

it. It went forward. A wide receiver named Ricardo Lewis reached behind him, grabbed it and for the touchdown. So we get on camera at the end of the game and Gary says, it's the greatest finishing college football you have ever seen. You will never, ever, ever see anything like that. Two weeks. Two weeks. Yeah, two weeks. We had Chris Davis with the miss kick.

And Gary, you know, the Auburn guys made a substitution during a long time now. And we all thought it was, first of all, Matt Austin was a referee. He's a good friend. We bonded over that game, as a matter of fact. And Matt is a guy, they took him seven minutes to determine if you remember this in 2013 so 11 years ago if TJ Yeldon's foot had come down with time out or time remaining and took him

Seven minutes and they were asking the truck to synchronize this main game coverage with the end zone And get them and it took seven minutes and then matt austin came on Please put one second back on the clock And they did Well, we all thought That uh nick nick was irritated to put it mildly with the senior place kicker Uh, we so they put this redshirt freshman

Kid on the field for 57 yard field goal. And he hit a pretty good kick. He really did. But Chris Davis grabbed it and got a block, got another block, and all of a sudden about the 50 yard line, I thought, holy cow, there's nobody in front of it. And then And then, uh, when he got to about it, when he got to the end zone, I look back and I said, there are no flags. And then that moment comes through your body and you think, dear God, don't let there be any flags. Right. Right. Right. Cause yeah, there were, yeah. Cause we're watching at home and we're thinking you always think of a big play like that. You're like, all right, give it a beat because

you never know. You're looking for that. Alabama fans are probably like, there has to be a flag here. You're just staring at the bottom line of their TV for 30 seconds after that plays over hoping that yellow icon. Yeah. But you added that, that line adds to the moment so much. Yeah. Well, and, and Gary, we only showed three replays. I was stunned. Our director was Steve Milton, who still does college football, and he does all of our golf.

And Steve's one of the most brilliant directors everywhere, ever. And then Gary and I laid out during the replay for a minute and 21 seconds, which is an attorney if you're, if you're a talking dog and the late Don Drysdale gave me that name, nickname. One quick end of the day, just face the fact you and me ain't nothing but talking dogs. That's great. I love that. So wait, so after it happened did you tell Gary

Danielson you're like hey remember two weeks ago when you said you'll never see anything like this? Yeah, oh yeah, but he had the great line. He had the great line because in the analysis of the replay he said, no wonder they couldn't tackle him. They had their field goal protection team on the field. Those are nothing but fat guys. It's a fact. Perfect summary. It really was. Yeah. What's the most fun name to say in sports? Oh, I've got one. And I don't mean to make fun of a guy, but inevitably that mentioning a played for LSU. And I collect names. I mean, I'm a big aficionado of why people are named what they are. Barquevious mingo. Yeah, that's a fun one to say. That's a great one. It's, it's, it just rolls off the, the Barkevious mingo.

And he was a, I think he was a linebacker 20 years ago at LSU, but that was, that was one of my favorites. Yeah. He was. So, so speaking of names, when did you, so your, your first name is Merton. When did you decide to make the switch? Thank you for bringing that up. Well, Vern is so poor. I mean, again, it might just be because we've known you for so long watching, but when, when was that switch made? It was a great switch by you. I want to say that right now. Fantastic. Uh, my full name is Merton Laverne Lundquist Jr. The junior is important. Yep. My siblings, David, Dan, Tom, Sharon.

What the hell? So your parents, your parents just took a shot. They're like, Hey, there's a first kid. Let's just take a shot here. My dad went by Merton. They tagged me with Laverne. So I went through high school, college, and as a man of unclear purpose, I had no idea what, I got a degree in sociology and a minor in history from Texas Lutheran University, graduated in 62.

I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I thought, well, I grew up in a minister's home and with a sociology degree, a liberal arts background, I think I'll try this. So I decided to enroll for one year at the Lutheran School of Theology in Rock Island. And six weeks in, I knew it was not for me. And I, you know, but I swore to myself, you're gonna make it through one year. So I do have 18 hours of credit at the Lutheran School of Theology in Rock Island, including six hours of Greek,

which has not been particularly beneficial in this career. But along the way, I got a radio job as a nighttime disc jockey across the Mississippi River in Davenport, Iowa at WOC radio, which stands by the way for world of chiropractic. And the guy who hired me was the program director, was a guy named Bob Gifford. And we did the interview and he said, I like your work. I want to put you on from nine to midnight, but there's no way in God's green earth you're going on my radio station as Laverne.

So the compromise was to drop the LMEA off. And I've been Vern since I was 23 years old. So 60 years now. But to this day, Nancy and I are blessed. We have a home, a condo here in Austin, but our full-time home is in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. And if someone calls and they ask for Laverne, Nancy will pick up the phone. She said, honey, someone either from Austin or higher Texas, because that's what they knew me. That's funny.

You brought up your wife. We have to ask you to tell the story of how you two met. Yeah. Mr. Steal your girl. So we've heard about it, but we'd like you to tell the story. We want to hear it from Vern. Well, okay.

Well, okay. We met in 1980 in Dallas. I was recently divorced. Nancy had been divorced about seven, eight years, I think, at that point. And I'll give you the full story because we got a little bit of time. So as a recently divorced, and I lived in what is called the mid-cities, I was working at the ABC affiliate in Dallas and doing the six and 10 and I also had the cowboy job at the time. And I lived 23 miles from downtown Dallas and I didn't want to go home. I was lonely. So I went to this upscale discotheque. That dates it. This would have been a week before Nancy and I met. So early March of 1980 and a young man, I walked in and had a scotch and water sitting at the bar and a young kid came over and said, Mr. Lundquist, I don't mean to be presumptuous but what are you doing in here and I said what are you talking about he said look out there on

the dance floor do you see anybody your age and I said good point by you where where would you suggest I go he said about a mile and a half down Greenville Avenue there's an upscale bar called Arthur's. It's attached to a steakhouse. I think you might find people your age. I was 40 at the time. And you might find people more of your generation. So the next week I got off the 10 o'clock news and I thought, well, I'll take that kid's advice. So I walked into this upscale, it was an upscale bar and I was coat and tie because I just come from work and Nancy who became my wife was sitting at the bar with her date, a blind date, I didn't know that at the time, who

was the Coors beer distributor in Dallas and Fort Worth, All this I found out later. So he recognized me for local television. It's a phenomenon. And he said, well, there's Vern. Let's invite him over for a drink. So he did, and I joined him. And I looked down and dancing, and she had the prettiest smile of anybody I've ever seen in my life.

She still does. And so this Raymond, he said, I know you recently divorced. I don't want to take proprietorship over your life, but I don't want you hanging around single sports. He said, I got a school teacher. This is a Tuesday night. Can you make time between the 6 and 10? And yeah, because all I do is update scores

and rewrite some copy. Okay, let's go to dinner. And I've got a date that the school teacher lined up. He looked at Nancy and he said, what are you doing Thursday night? She said nothing. He said, okay, we're gonna double date, four of us. And we paid, he picked out a restaurant. And so in the meantime, I kept looking at her thinking,

gosh, she's beautiful. And he finally had to take care of business. So he went to the men's room and I asked her to dance. And I had five minutes at most, I knew. So we're out on the dance floor and I said, how involved are you with Raymond? She said, first day, it's a blind date. And I said, well, good, then forget what he's talking about for Thursday night. What are you doing Saturday night. She is she said I think I'm doing whatever

you're doing. So good. Incredible. Mr. Steele. We had our first day in March 22nd 1980 and because we had been both married before we took our time we did we waited a couple years and got married in 82 and she's she's she's charming yeah she was impressed with her dancing yeah wait so did you go on the double date or no? Did you did you cancel the double date? No, I know I called and canceled, you know, I said I'm really we got late late breaking scores here, right? Oh That's I mean Listen if you're if you're the the course distributor and you lose out on your date to Vern Lundquist There's worse. There's worse fates out there lose out on your date to Vern Lundquist. There's worse, there's worse fates out there.

There's another part to that, honest to God. So, and there was a third guy there who is Raymond Willie Stockbroker, a fellow named Paul Bass. And so Nancy had given me her telephone number and I, you know, I had nothing to write it down with. So I can, I still remember it. And and I you know, I had nothing to write it down with so I can say I still remember it she said just imagine a dial tone three six one nine one eight nine and So I'm thinking three six one. Oh, so now I'm driving a company issued red Chevrolet and I was a heavy smoker back in those days. And there were cigarette burns all over the damn, no God. And Raymond pulls up in a silver Rolls Royce.

And I thought the competition has suddenly gotten stiffer than I thought it was going to be. But that was a Thursday night. And on Friday, I kept calling. She was she did radio television commercials in Dallas she was quite successful for a number of years and and She but she had a sideline job as a as a receptionist in between auditions at a place called the company and I kept calling I called her and Nancy's had another audition. I called it noon

I called it to I called it for and I said the five o'clock. I know she's there So they said okay. She just walked in they put me through Nancy got on the phone and said I Said well, why have you not taken my phone call? She said listen. I don't want to come between you and your friend I said who was my friend? She said, Raymond. I said, I just met him. I don't know Raymond Willie. Oh, okay. Well, in that case, we'll go out for a date. Oh, I love that. We have a friend, Paul Bissonnette, that could, he could take some tips from you

about how to handle a situation like that. Oh, that's such a great story. Yeah. That's such a great story. In terms of, so we talked about the Kick 6, obviously, Tiger's chip. But did you, in your life, was that something that you would say, like, generally, and you had that? Or was it a spur of the moment for that chip? It was absolutely spur of the moment. You've got to be reacting.

You've got to be reacting. You've got to be reacting. You've got two rules. You cannot predetermine what you're going to say. And there are guys who have done that. No names. But there are guys and you can tell they force it in. Oh my God. But you've just got to react to the moment. So I said what I did because In my life, I'd never seen anything like that And I assume people at home hadn't seen anything like that and that's what I said. Well, I said what I did There's a little bit of background about the way That shot would cover and I'd love to share it with you because I want this. Yeah

to get full credit. The front of a production truck has the producer to the far left, there are three seats. Producer, far left, he's editorial comment, he's the guy with whom we communicate. Director in the middle, in this case it was Steve Milton and Steve and then to his right is the technical director so and Steve's looking at a monitor back then there were 54 monitors in front of him and He's the guy who says and this is not hypothetical

This is actual the guy next to me the camera guy was a guy named Bob wish me from Philadelphia. He's retired now and He was camera 10. So when Tiger lined up for the chip shot, first of all, Lanny Watkins was in the tower and Tiger's fellow competitor at the time playing board and now was Chris DiMarco. And Chris was 20 feet below the hole. And so I asked Lanny what he thought and Lanny said, he's gonna be lucky

if he can keep his inside DeMarco's ball. It was that severe, the slope down. And so that was the background. Now, Steve Milton says, camera 10, ready 10, take 10, and Norm Patterson, the technical director, then pushes a button. That's camera 10. That's what you see in your living room.

So ready 10, take 10. He takes 10, that's Wishley. And Tiger hits the chip and Bob zooms in and has a perfect shot of the ball and stays in focus the whole way. Now it starts down. And when it gets near the lip of the cup, Steve said, ready six, take six.

Well, six is over here. He's got a flanker shot. He's got a shot of Tiger for reaction, here to here. Well, Norm Patterson followed his instincts and he intuitively did not take six. He stayed with Tim. And because he made that decision, And he intuitively did not take six. He stayed with 10. And because he made that decision, we all saw the wall drop.

Had he followed the director's command, really not an advice, had he followed it, you would have seen the reaction shot, Tiger. We'd have played it back But if you think about it, it changes everything. Yeah, right about I'll remember that shot. Yeah, and then now here's the sad part of it Norm that that was in April, of course in 05 the following January they were our first event of the year was the San, in La Jolla, in San Diego.

And Norm was out jogging and dropped into a heart attack at 41 years of age. And he was from Cincinnati. Steve Milton went back to Cincinnati to eulogize Norm. And he told that story so that norms family and friends Would know that it was his norms decision that created what we all remember about tiger ship shot. Yeah You know That was what? Five 19 years ago. Yeah, but I mean

It's it's a great story because it shows just how much goes into having these moments that for us as the viewers, they just go across seamlessly and they happen and you're like, Oh my God, this just happened. It's incredible. And every decision that comes in and all the pieces that go together for a puzzle to make a perfect moment. I mean, first of all, no one would manufacture something they're going to say it, but you just got to react to what's going on. It's a reactionary business, so to speak. And you've seen so much sports, like you said, I think I saw a clip of you covering the Texas Rangers in their first season back in spring training. Oh my God. You had some bell bottoms on, you had a nice flow going, looking good like a disco shirt.

It really wasn't there. There's no shame in the internet. No, no, it's forever. So you've seen that clip. Holy cow. And you've seen so much sports throughout the years. I'd like to hear from your perspective, what's changed so much? Like, what are the most important changes, either for the better or for the worse, in

terms of college, professional sports that you've seen since the 1970s to this day where there are multi-billion dollar industries, what's changed over the years? Well, the two biggest changes, both of which helped drive Nick Saban into retirement, are transfer to the portal and NIL. I mean, these kids now, how much are you going to pay me? Or if you don't pay me, if you don't guarantee I'm starting and pay me, I'm transferred.

I'm going to Central Michigan. And Nick, I don't know that, I think Nick has now said, oh yeah, that drove me nuts. I'm pretty good friends with him. You know, you do that many Alabama games over the years and we became, I would say we were friends. I know I know we are and Then then having said that then you worry about does that impede on Any prejudicial comments you might make I hope not I think I'm a better

Broadcaster than that. Yeah, but I worry about that. Yeah Because I admire him I and I know a better broadcaster than that. But I didn't worry about that. Because I admire him. And I know Nick is one of my favorites. And I used to jump up and down. He'd get on the local reporters at those press conferences and just belittle them. And I thought, Nick, you're better than that.

And unfortunately, in many cases, he wasn't. Yeah, he had a handler, assistant SID, who's now at Arkansas State, Athletic Directorate. But I asked the SID, I said, oh, to Nick, I said, Nick, you know, they're just trying to do a job. Yes, sometimes they have stupid questions, but they're young and the SID said, well, he belittles them because they deserve it. And I thought, oh, nah. You know, I haven't talked to Nick since he retired. By the way,

I thought he was a superstar during the draft. Yeah, he was. He was fantastic. He was. Oh, he was fantastic. All right. So Vern, I got a couple last questions. One is the, so you had these iconic calls.

So many, I mean, Christian Leighton's shot, like doesn't he, you know what I mean? Like that's, that's one of, that's probably a top three March madness moment. But what is the call that you maybe isn't the most, uh, memorable in terms of the significance in the sports, but you're like, that was the call I absolutely nailed. I would say two of them. Oh, I, I did a talk show after the Latentor shot once with a guy named Stake Shapiro in Atlanta. He said, are you really proud of that Latentor call? And I said, no, I'm not. I just channeled my inner Marv Albert, you know, and then I went in, I went, yes. Not exactly evocative and brilliant commentary, but again, it was a reaction. I get asked a lot about that because I've been so lucky over the years.

And I mean, how do you separate Jack in 86 and Tiger in O5. And how lucky am I to have those two guys associated with my resume? I mean, that's rarefied air and I know that. And as I said at Augusta two weeks ago, I got to say goodbye to Jack and Tiger and meet Scotty. So mission accomplished on all three counts. But Jack, Jack is six months older than I am, a fact of which I never let him forget.

Whenever I can bring it up. But we did have a moment, Jack and Barbara, Nancy and me on Tuesday at the week of Augusta, we bumped into the two of them on the sidewalk outside the trophy room at the clubhouse. And Jack said, let's have a little fun. It was his idea. And so someone had a cell phone camera. And Jack said, on the count of three, three, two, one, and then we simultaneously punched the air and yelled, yes, sir. That was going to the grave with me. I mean, that was so, you know, Tiger shaking hands with the tree and Jack yelling, yes, sir, simultaneously with me.

That all of that made that week, and the other part of it is I've had two really serious back surgeries, one in 17 and one in 19. I have degenerative scoliosis. So for the last three or four years, I had done the 16th and the sixth from the content center. We would call it a compound, but they want to call it the content center. So that's what it is. But I was in a room and calling it off the monitor. But I swore to my boss, Sean McManus, and to our producer, in this case, Seller Shy, I want to be on the course for the last Saturday and Sunday.

So they accommodated that. The main tower was 20 steps behind the green, too much, with a guy with a bad back. But there was a flanker tower, and that's where I was. It was only six steps up, and it was crowded up there. It was myself and Tracy Levine, a wonderful lady who is my status decision slash spotter and a camera guy. But I got up there and it was just like

such a relief, emotional relief for me to finish out 40 years in a tower at that the 16th hole. Yeah. Yeah. And then Jim was more than gracious, you know, in his saying goodbye. Yeah, we talked about those two iconic calls. I'll give you another one. Who the hell is Happy Gilmore? Love that one. The gift that keeps on giving. Yeah. Yes. Okay, so there's a background story there. That movie is now released in 1996. I shot all the scenes in which I was involved in one day in Vancouver, British Columbia. They had shot all the outdoor scenes, all the golf scenes, with at Whistler, north of Vancouver. But for the scenes where I was involved, they had rented a vacant hospital building and Adam Sandler was there and so the morning of

the shoot we're gathered at 7 a.m. and and there's this good-looking guy in the periphery of the circle the director of the movie is the guy Dennis Dugan who played the PGA Commission so it was an actor and a director and he said I got an idea let's do it let's have an inside joke and he looked at this tall good looking guy whose name was Jack Joraputo he said Jack go got an idea. Let's have an inside joke. And he looked at this tall, good-looking guy whose name was Jack Joraputo. He said, Jack, go over to the hair and makeup. Get a blue blazer and a red tie or whatever it was. And I want you to sit next to Vern for every scene.

And it's just a sight gag. You're not allowed to say a word because you do not belong to the Screen actors guild. So that's Jack sitting next to me just nodding and it's to him I say who the hell is happy Gilmore. And he was Adam Sandler's roommate at New York University's film school. And he's now, if you watch these Sandler movies, he's the executive producer of Sane. And I've got a picture back in Colorado of that whole group, Sandler and Jack and Dennis Dugan and the Shaggy Haired Caddy. I don't think Shooter McGavin is in it. I don't remember.

But it's clearly his damn movie ever made, but wildly popular. Yeah. Wildly. A great, great movie. Alright, so I have one last question. This has been so much fun. Last question, rollback question. R-H-O-B-A-C-K.com. Promo code take. 20% off your first purchase. Q-zips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Not to be fanboys for a second, but is there any way, my last

question is there any way you can say welcome to Pardon My Take? Yes, sir. That would be great for us. We just, I just, we'll play it for our personal files or maybe welcome to Pardon My Take. This is Vern Lundquist. Yes, sir. Welcome to pardon my take. I'm Vern Lundquist. Yes, sir. That's good. That's it. That's perfect. Can we get you to say who the hell is Henry Lockwood? That's our producer. He's, he's a golfer. He's terrible. I could get him a golf car with him. Then I was nothing good either. I could talk about it, but I couldn't do it. Yeah. Uh, who the hell is Henry Lawson? Hi, that's good. I like it. Vern, thank you so much. This has been so much. It's so great for us. We really are so appreciative of your

time and best of luck in retirement but also maybe come out of retirement. Yeah. Yeah. You never know. Yeah. You never know. Do you. Yeah. Let's let's let's leave it open. Okay guys. All right. All right. See you. Vern Lundquist was brought to you by our great friends over at Visible. Switch to Visible, the wireless company with nothing to hide. Get one line wireless with unlimited 5G data powered by Verizon. Just 25 bucks a month every month, taxes and fees included. One line wireless, just $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Visible is a wireless company with nothing to hide, no hidden fees, no gotchas, unlimited 5G data powered by Verizon.

Switch now at visible.com. Don't let hidden fees stop you from being a fan of wireless. Switch to Visible and save. Bench wireless with hidden fees and switch to Visible. Rate with service on the Visible plan. For additional terms and network management practices, see visible.com. Switch now at visible.com. And now, here's Kirk Goldsberry.

And now for something completely different. Okay, we now welcome on our very good friend. It is Kirk Goldsberry in studio. And it is also the day that his new book is out, Hoop Atlas, Mapping the Remarkable Transformation of the Modern MBA. You can buy it on Amazon today. It is also the day that his new book is out hoop Atlas mapping the remarkable transformation of the modern NBA. You can buy it on Amazon today. You can buy it on Amazon tomorrow.

Yeah. Buy it on Amazon for the rest of time. Probably probably. So 23% off today in honor of Michael Jordan. Okay. So if you like Michael Jordan or books there, we're ready to go. So it's also perfect that you're here in this specific moment in the NBA playoffs

because it feels like the pendulum has swung all the way back around and Jokic sucks again. I thought you were gonna say defense matters. Well, no, it's a combination of, yeah, he's carved. Your take on Jokic from a couple of years ago saying that he he lacks some Some traits defensively that you'd like to have I don't actually think he sucks No, everyone knows that's true, but you did you did have that piece

They got Michael Malone very upset and now we're watching the Nuggets struggle mightily On both offensively but defensively as well where yokich is just flailing around They're putting him and Jamal Murray and pick and roll and just I think I saw they had a pick and roll in game one Where they were averaging to two points per every pick and roll. Yeah, it's those two which is that's insane Yeah, they're shredding them and I think the Lakers scored 57 points per game in the paint alone in that series That was a little bit of a red flag and I went on with our friend Ryan Rosillo and was like, yeah, the reason Minnesota might do this is they're young and athletic and aggressive and ferocious. And you know, Nikola Jokic is the best offensive center in the world and it's not close, but compared to some of the other elite big men, he is not

a great rim protector and not as athletic as some of those other guys. And you know, we've seen that exposed last year. They pieced it together well enough to win hand up as you guys like to say, I was wrong. But if there's a weakness in this dude's bag, it's on that end of the floor and Minnesota's exposed it. But the biggest point of this, this game, game one is Denver scored 80 points. Yeah. I mean, Minnesota's defense has been out of this world's good and they just have it's a credit to their roster building

It feels like every single guy maybe outside of Mike Conley is just bigger than everyone else It reminds me and I you guys like when I put things in NFL terms, but this is the 2000 Ravens through these first six I like that like that. He was the murderer. I like that. Huh? Who's killed the guy? Stay tuned, stay tuned.

But they scored 80 points last night. And if you would have told me three weeks ago that the Denver Nuggets were gonna score 80 points in a playoff game, I would have said, oh, did Jokic and Murray both get hurt? Because that number is just something from the 1980s or 90s in the NBA. And the other crazy thing about that 80 point night, big cat is Rudy Gobert

didn't play. Right. Yeah. Right. And so they're, they're, they're not just a one man defensive juggernaut. The whole team is absolutely loving playing defense and they're shutting down this team that won it all last year. It's crazy.

Yeah, it is. The first half was, was especially atrocious last night, watching the Nuggets just struggle. It seems like, how many steals did they have? I think they had 11 steals in the game. Yeah, and they doubled them up, I think, in steals and blocks. Yeah. And they're just like, they're maniacal.

They're like grinning ear to ears. They're playing defense. And it's, especially in the context of this season, PFT, where offense offense offense what's happening right now is Minnesota is emerging as the favorite to win this tournament by being the best defense we've seen in years yeah awesome if you like hoops it's awesome to watch these guys just lock up some of the best players in the world so how much of that is coaching and how much is the individual defensive efforts?

Both. And one of the stats I got last night sort of reveals that is, you know, I think the average separation for Denver's three-pointers last night was five feet. And that sounds like a lot, but that's the smallest margin they've had all year in that metric. In other words, Minnesota's defenders were in the right places in contesting shots at a level that the Denver Nuggets shooters haven't sort of experienced all year.

They're in the right place, so credit to Chris Finch for schemes. And then the roster is just full of those dudes that are dogs, they got the dog in them. They're in the right place, but then they also want to fight and close out on those shots, and they're just athletic and long.

So it's a perfect storm. Yeah, and Anthony Edwards has been the story of these playoffs. His leap, because he was good before, but the leap he's taking right now, I mean, you statistically are looking at it, like it's clear that he has made that leap and he's playing differently and better more efficiently

than he was the last couple of years. He also just, I just love watching him play because you can tell he just wants to beat the fuck out of everyone he plays against. And that, you know, that's not a stats thing, but his leadership I think is his signature skill because he's like, everybody loves him on the team. You can tell the team has adopted his persona

more than Carl Anthony Towns or Rudy Gobert, who let's face it, don't have that reputation. And that sort of infectious kick-ass mentality and then smiling when he's doing that's jade McDaniels now it's Alexander Walker it's Kyle Anderson like the whole team has followed in his lead and what the most impressive about that is and here's a dumb stat the dudes 22 years old I know this is like people compared to Michael or Kobe or whatever 22 years old I know you had the stat where it was a list of four guys

who scored over 35 points at 22 or younger. Yeah so that was Lew Alcindor who that was his name back then before he became Kareem. It was a guy named Kobe Bryant and then it was a guy named LeBron James were the only other three guys that scored 35 plus And then the other thing, I think it was three times in a row, but the other thing Big Cat is his field goal percentage, his shooting efficiency numbers are incredible too. He's 60%, 50% every night.

That's the difference. Like last year he would, if you look at the stats or the year before, like he had the stats, but the efficiency is what has gone. And he even said it, he did a great interview where he was like, the hardest thing I had to do

was just work on my shot. And I would take 3000 shots a day in the summer. And like, now you're seeing what has happened to my game. And you go back to his draft year, right? And the intel was, does this guy like basketball? Is he competitive? It's crazy to think. It's like the exact opposite.

I know. It goes to show you what a pseudoscience, some of this NBA draft stuff is, but a lot of the intel around this guy was completely wrong. It couldn't have been more incorrect. Yeah. That one shot to the fade away he had where he was double teamed on Monday night, that was where I was like, okay, these MJ comparisons, they're starting to, I see what people are saying. He hit the shrug right after that. Well yeah and he also said he didn't want to be compared to him and then he hit the shrug. Yeah it was interesting. It's so much fun to watch. It was a good shrug though. He like nailed it. I get bummed out when it's a non Anthony Edwards night. Oh I'm like where's Anthony Edwards I want to watch Anthony Edwards. American basketball

he's the hero that American basketball needs I know you like this thing I had earlier in the season about like are these foreign guys stealing our jobs? Because the all NBA team is all foreign players and we haven't won an MVP in what like seven years Yeah, and I was saying that like you can really chart out with Jokic Donchich SGA is Canadian Yeah, now when Benyama and Jan, a path to 2030 where we go a full decade without an MVP. Now, Anthony Edwards this last two weeks has said something to say to that.

I like to build the wall, Anthony. Yeah, let's make this a USA argument. Yeah, make the Slovenians pay for that. Yeah, he's also, I can't wait for the Olympics because it it's always fun. We were going to we should win the the gold but one of the things about watching the Olympics is watching all these guys interact and having a moment where it's like it's Anthony Edwards kind of league now like Lebron's older Kevin Durant's older like will that show up where it's like no he's the dude

now. Yeah, team USA basketball which I got to work for in 2016 was one of my favorite experiences but the 2012 team had sort of this vibe too, big cat, where Kevin Durant was a baby coming out of the University of Texas, no big deal, but on the team. You won a lot of championships. Kobe and LeBron and Chris Paul, I forget everybody was on, but it was incredible and he was he was the 22 year old, 21 year old, you can look it up, but he was the leading scorer in that tournament. Right. And it was like, oh my God, like Kevin Durant.

And I think that's like what it's setting up for Anthony this summer is like, oh my God, this is the best player in American basketball right now. I mean, it's the dream team in 92. I know MJ had already won titles, but like the passing of like, oh, it's Magic and Bird on this team, they're older, they're about to retire. It's like these young guys are here.

And he already just destroyed Kevin and, you know, Devin Booker, who is competing for the starting spot on that team in the backcourt. That's obviously going to Ant-Man now. It's just one of the things that makes the NBA playoffs so good is this kind of thing. And to be honest, this is the best sort of emergence of a superstar in this postseason tournament

we've seen in a very long time. Him and Jalen Brunson, because we had the argument before the playoffs, like I'm very particular with the phrase superstar. I think it's a list of like five to seven guys and Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson weren't on that list yet because they hadn't done it for enough years,

but these playoffs are exactly where a superstar starts. they are now on the path to super stardom in the league Yeah, I didn't know you were such a Well, I just think it's you know, but we had a good with Stephen Che here I was he was like I he listed his superstars. It was literally just every all-star. So Jalen Brunson is not a superstar He's on his way. I think you have to do it. I think you have to do it for multiple years and you have to be like, this is one of the five to seven best basketball players in the world. Okay. That those are fair criteria. I think Jalen Brunson is dude, talk about a hand up moment for a lot of us. It's like, Oh, the next sign Jalen Brunson, they overpaid him.

Yeah. They got laughed at. Yeah. I laughed at them. It's just like the Anthony Edwards draft Intel. If you go back to that transaction, people are like, Oh, whatever. And who, who would have thought the Mavs now think about it from the Mavs perspective. Like, Oh my God, what did you just give up? You weren't willing to pay this guy. And now he's like running Madison square garden in the spring. And yeah, he's on the way to super startardom now. Like I fully, that's how quickly it can change. It's easier to get there when you're in New York City too, right? You're helping the Knicks to the conference finals potentially. But it's also the way that Jalen and Anthony Edwards are doing it where it's like 35, 40 points a game carrying their teams. That's super stardom. Yeah. And

the shots that he made in game one against Indiana down the stretch were definitely big boy shots. Yeah. Like, I love the way he plays. I mean, undersized guys, we just love it. The two feet and the paint, it almost looks like a college basketball player. And Jay Wright deserves a lot of credit.

I joke for making the Knicks so good with Dante DiVincenzo and Josh Hart, who's also just this phenomenal sort of emergent player this postseason. we were gonna ask you this we talked about it On our hot seat cool throne, but do you know the story about Josh Hart? Like hurting his wrist in early April and he his wrist clicked and he told Jalen Brunson He can shoot threes now and he actually can shoot threes now I don't know what your stats you got to find some stats on that maybe go back Yeah, find me the April 7th and he said that he could shoot threes now

He is shooting threes and a way better clip than he ever has in his career sounds like potential nerd nugget material Yeah, I don't know where he is crazy though 7th cuz yeah, they need a graphic Nick nurse and when I was on the show a couple weeks ago We're talking about how Nick nurse was leaving this dude open on purpose I was talking to one of the Bulls assistants last night and like yeah We just used to leave Josh hard. Oh anymore his wrist click wrist click. I was talking to one of the Bulls assistants last night and like, yeah, we just used to leave Josh Hart open. How many more? His wrist clicked. His wrist clicked. So it's like, that's the new money ball.

Yeah. Just damaging your player's wrists and then they're able to shoot the ball well. Yeah. Oh man. You gotta, we need a staff. Steve Ballmer needs a mallet. I'll send you to attack Russell Westbrook's wrist. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He needs to put, he needs to put Russell Westbrook's hand in a guillotine and then shut it and then sew it back on

Then he'll be good again. Yeah I'm gonna send you right now and you will get a new graphic that you can put together his shooting percentage since that happened Yeah, we'll do it. We'll do it for the for the for the social but I think you're right, you know They're saying like this Tommy John surgery in baseball these guys come back with their UCL And I know Blake is got a UCL injury going on. Two of them. Is he doing like the V-Load? Is he throwing away to baseballs? Yeah we had him throwing a curve ball way too early. Yeah. I called him Blake up to Grom. Yeah. Yeah. So 85. Yeah. Bark Pryor. There's all sorts of nicknames being thrown around about him. But so I want to

get back to the Nuggets real quick. Jamal Murray, he has had kind of an up and down playoff so far. We've been talking about him a lot because he's made some huge shots, especially in that series against the Lakers, that kind of glossed over some of the other stuff that he's been doing. I think he's injured. He seems to be not himself. Can we look at what he did last year compared directly to how he's played this year and see like a Mark drop off. Yeah in his production. Yeah in word jump shots I mean he was an absolute killer last year on the perimeter and making his jump shots And he is now one of the coldest jump shooters in these playoffs and with a few big exceptions in the Lakers series

But yeah, like he has been just not himself. He was just making all of those big shots last year, like he said, and I think he's obviously frustrated. And one of the things we don't do well enough in basketball, and I think football discourse as well, is like, you know what makes scoring hard is really good defense. And we already talked about Minnesota's defense.

And when you have Jaden McDaniels and Alexander Walker in your face, just it's it's harder to, you know, when Ed Reed is back there playing defense, suddenly your passing game isn't as good as it is normally. And I think Minnesota is the exact wrong team to try to sort of get warm up against right now. And so Jamal Murray is, he's definitely hurt. He's not himself, he's cold.

And the Lakers pretty good defense too. So it's just a perfect storm in my opinion. Yeah. And also out in the West, and we can just talk about this quickly. The Suns, we watched the Suns and we said, the Suns, they really suck. The Suns are shitty.

Can you tell us why they suck and why they're shitty? Like get nerdy with it because It's the eyeball test for us. We're like, oh this team just sucks Yeah, I'll give you two big indicators that I like to look at one They have the worst defense in the playoffs against you know a team that is really good But you can't be the worst defense in the playoffs in advance and and I think specifically I don't protect the rim and rebound very well Which are not very glamorous, but really important jobs on defense and then they don't threaten

the paint on offense they love to settle for two-point jump shots and even three-point jump shots but they're with Booker, Beal and KD obviously great jump shooters but they don't space the court in part because they don't threaten the rim And a lot of the best teams with even with like Rudy go bear Anthony Edwards these guys can get Dunks and layups and when you don't do that It's a lot easier to play defense against the team that you don't really have to worry about attacking the paint Jack shooting. All right In the West it feels like it feels like we haven't seen the Thunder and so he said you said pussy's pussies

They're pussies. What's that? The the sound went out on my okay. Yeah the Thunder we haven't seen him playing forever Thunder man fans are mad that we haven't talked about them They made quick work of the Pellic Pelicans and it was also weird scheduling because it was off nights for us I love watching the Thunder play because they have another like young nucleus. That is much fun. So we're taping this right before the Mavs Thunder. Tell us what you think is going to happen in this series and why the Thunder could potentially win it all. Like I mean, we just have, we haven't seen him playing forever. It's crazy. They're so young. The craziest stat from the first round might be this one.

They had one person over 25 years old score in their first round series, and it was Ken Rich Williams. He scored two points. Wow. So what I'm saying is beat them now because they might even go to the finals this year, but this team is built for the rest of this decade

and beyond, they are young. And I think they are deep and they are built for long-term success. But speaking of this year's opponent with the Dallas Mavericks, I think this series is pretty close to a coin flip for me. I'll give the edge to the Thunder just because they have home court. And that's a really tough place to play as somebody. When I was at the Spurs, we went up there and we get our butts kicked a lot. And that crowd is nuts. Lead the league in putting on the shirts. They have a huge t-shirt.

Yeah, they do. Huge t-shirt culture there. It's huge. But it feels like a college basketball gym. In all seriousness, it's like, wow, this is a really loud environment. And so that's a hard place to win. Obviously, Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving

can both win a playoff game on the road if they need to. But the Thunder, great defense, great depth, and it all starts with SGA, who is the most active rim attacking. He can score in all three levels, but he's a playmaking guard who's just perfect to start an offensive possession with. And he's the most drive-happy guard in the NBA.

And the Mavericks are really interesting because they were one of the worst defenses possession with and he's you know the most drive-happy guard in the NBA and the Mavericks are really interesting because they were one of the worst defenses in the first half of the NBA they made some major transactions at the deadline and then became one of the statistically best defenses so it's sort of this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde at the end of the season they look like they could win it all too but it's I'm still not sold that their defense is as legit as it looked like. Yeah and we talked a lot about the West though there's definitely there's an imbalance still in basketball when we talked to you a couple weeks ago I asked you to look into why the West has just

been dominant over the East for it feels like 30 years is there a reason? Anytime a league divides itself in half it is setting itself up for imbalance. Like this arbitrary division whether it's the American League and the National League, the AFC and the NFC and you separate your teams and you say our playoffs are gonna be divided in half based on this arbitrary division. But the small market teams I did look into this PFT have just been the best they they to compete with the Lakers They had to get smart in the moneyball era, right? So money ball comes out in 2003 the Spurs are winning with smarts the Nuggets the Thunder the jazz

The Timberwolves now if we're gonna beat the Lakers and the Warriors We have to be the smartest teams almost like the Rays and baseball, but they're smarter with international international players they're smarter with analytics they're smarter with sports science there's just a disproportionate amount of those genius teams in the small markets in the Western Conference. Interesting. Genius teams. Genius teams in the West. That's my new book. And so the the Lakers are not they're not a genius team they're just the Lakers. The Lakers can make a phone call to anybody in free agency any year they want and just, there's three ways to build a basketball team,

traditionally trade, draft and free agency. And the Lakers have sort of disproportionate access to that free agency lever. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you talk about San Antonio or Oklahoma City. But you guys just cheat in the draft. We cheat in the draft, which is sure, but we're not getting LeBron James to take his talents

to San Antonio in free agency. We're not getting Kawhron James to take his talents to San Antonio and free agency. We're not getting Kawhi Leonard to come to us in free agency. He might depart as he did, but so a lot of these small market teams have had to build from the ground up in a more sustainable way. And it turns out that might be a better way to build a basketball team. It's it's we we've talked about a theme of these playoffs is it feels like maybe the super team era is kind of fading away is it feels like maybe the super team era

is kind of fading away where it's like you see these teams, the thunder, the wolves, these homegrown teams. Now they've made trades, but those were trades with assets they already had or they were able to get even the Celtics. I know people were like, what are you talking about? Chris stops and Derek whites. Like, well, they were smart with who they traded for and how they maneuvered everything. It does feel like we're getting back to this, this like more organic team building and I love it.

I think it's better for the NBA. Yeah. I think the super team era sort of starts with maybe you cover the Celtics with KG and that, but I think it really starts with the decision, right? To 2010, where these guys, mostly American players, team up in big American cities like Los Angeles or Miami or whatever. But yeah, those teams are out and the old guys are kind of out. Stefan is out, Kevin Durant is out, LeBron James is out, and who's left? It's Anthony Edwards and this Minnesota team

that is very deep. It's the Thunder that are very deep, Luka Doncic and the Mavs. So I think that is a fair take, and I hope it's better basketball. Yeah, it is. It's cooler, and if the small markets are able to compete, it's better for the league, too. Do you have advanced analytics on Lou Dort and his defense?

Yeah, of course. I mean, he's an absolute maniac. He's just a pest. He's a pest. He's built like a brick house, and he is long and he the biggest thing is does he have that dog in him? And he's got that French Canadian dog. Yeah, I like that. Do you have, do you have any metrics that say whether or not a

player has a dog in them? You didn't prepare me for that. Yeah, you should. That's a formula you should come up with maybe for next year. Okay. It's like where you reach dog stack. We can help you. Yeah. Yeah, let's do that. It's not just, it's not just like scoring or technical fouls. That's one of them. There's a lot of, there's a lot goes into dog. Throw the ball into the stands. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's a lot of dog. Run to the locker room and tweet about your podcast right after the game. That's dog.

Yeah. But I think like steals and blocks are like the traditional ones, but yeah, do you show up on defense and going back to these timber wolves who are taking the NBA by storm, they all got that dog in them. So we'll start there and we'll do a deep dive, but let's introduce that dog in them stat. I think clapping in another player's face after a turnover. That's a big time dog move. That's a dog move. I would also add clapping in other players face when they miss a foul shot. Yeah. Dog. What about like Philipowski like tripping or kicking?

He was here today. We talked, I talked to him briefly. That dog stuff or no. He's got a bill. He calibrated model. Do guys don't have dog in them. They gotta, they gotta earn it. They usually do a weird haircut or some type of tattoo in the NBA and then they get it. Yeah. We don't speak ill of Philipkey because he was so close to death and it's a miracle that he came back. So I don't want to, it's like talking shit about Demar Hamlin. We're going to do that. I think about those guys all the time together. Yeah. Prayers for Kyle. The league could have changed forever. We could have probably ended basketball. It was scary. Yeah. Frightening moment. Yeah. Okay. So the one team we didn't mention or the series

we didn't mention is Celtics and Cavs. Cocky Hank is all the way back. We've we've coaxed it back out of him. He was scared of the heat The Celtics are far and away better than everyone in the East. Is that a fair statement? Yeah, I call it You know, there's the G League. I call the Eastern Conference the e-league So cocky Hank should be cocky in part because that the draws we would say in March Madness They have the easy bracket. Yeah, and no disrespect to the Pacers or the Knicks or certainly the Cavaliers, but you look at the four remaining teams in the West, Big Cat, come on.

They could all win the championship. And I just don't say, I don't think that about the Indianapolis Pacers, Indiana Pacers or the Cleveland Cavaliers. So the Celtics have been the best team all year. They deserve it. Part of that might be because they've had an easier schedule. But part of that is because they're a great freaking basketball team and they

are as deep as it gets. And yeah, they're going to get to the finals. In my opinion, I think the Cavs could steal one or two games. As we saw, even the Miami Heat could steal one with that three point shooting. But what, what about specifically Chris Stapps? Because he's out, uh, several, no minimum of several games. What does that change though for their team? You'd imagine Al Horford's going to play more. You might see some Luke Cornett, but does that affect their ceiling drastically when Chris Stapps is not playing?

Yeah, 100%. It's one piece they'd have to take off the chessboard out of the rotations. And what he's really good at is spacing the floor on offense. He can stand 28 feet out and shoot threes, bring that opposing big out. You know, if Jared Allen's able to play or Evan Mobley, essentially taking them out. Now Al Horford can do that a little bit too, but they don't know if Al Horford can play 40 minutes. So really losing that depth in the front court is a meaningful thing. And if they were playing a Western Conference opponent,

it might be a fatal flaw. So I think their easier draw plays in here and I expect them to win even without Kristofs. But I laugh because the minimum of several games as an analytical thinker is like, what does that even mean? No idea. More than one. Should they actually, should they lose some games

on purpose? Oh. Give him more time to get back? I like how you're thinking. Yeah. Well, they do have the set, the NBA does have a set start date for the NBA Finals. So they could just, like there's only- Even if there's all sweeps from the start, we're gonna have to take a break?

Yes. We hit the pause button? They have the NBA Finals dates set in stone. I don't like that. Yeah. Usually starts on a Thursday in early June, then game two is on a Sunday. Well, they've been doing this thing where they're trying out every day of the week now. Oh really? Yeah. We have, remember last year there was like a Friday game, a Wednesday game. They're doing that again. Yeah. I guess that never occurred to me. Yeah. They're trying. I hope,

I hope they find luck. I stand by my take. I still think they should intentionally lose some games to the Cavs. Oh really? I think so. How many are you thinking? I think two. That would just hurt their rest. No, they should lose two games. In all seriousness, Donovan Mitchell is one of those dudes who could just go out and win a game. Yeah, he'll steal a game. He could definitely steal a game. And you know, Boston, if it's tight, like one of their weaknesses is this like game

execution. And if Cleveland can get healthy, I think they can make this a series. But ultimately, I think the Celtics are just too much too deep even without Christops what about the analytics on on Cleveland like I I don't love when they play both their centers It feels weird and awkward and it feels like they're a better team when Jared Allen or Evan Mobley is out by themselves I don't know if you did the research, but I've seen that exact thing Yeah, when one one of them is out they seem to have a better net rating, better defensive efficiency. Last year when both of them were playing at a very high level, they had one of the best

defenses in the league. But this year you saw that actually and the numbers backed it up. Is this Jared Allen and Evan Mobley thing really good? Because it's two non-shooters. And one of the things that my first book, Sprawl Ball, was really about was like, can you even have two non-shooters on the court at any given time anymore? And Cleveland was trying to do that with both Jared Allen from Austin, Texas. No big deal.

But also, uh, Evan Mobley just doesn't stretch the floor very well at this point. Yeah. So if we fast forward to the finals, Cavs verse, or excuse me, excuse me, Celtics verse doesn't matter out of the West. Um, how do the Celtics match up against the Timberwolves, Oklahoma City, maybe the Nuggets if they can come back or you know, maybe we'll throw the Mavs in there too. Like is it, should they be the favorites to win? Yeah, and who should Hank be rooting for?

Because he's rooting hard for one, like he was nervous about the Nuggets. Now he's not, he should be rooting for the Nuggets now. But he's not nervous about the Wolves. He's like, I think we match up better. Yeah, I would be terrified of the Wolves based on what I've seen Yeah, six and oh and they just dispatched Kevin Durant and Devin Booker like it was nothing and now have made Nicole Yocic who many were saying is the best player in the world three weeks ago and two weeks ago And I was one of them. They've made him look very mortal

As cocky as Hank is that's the team that that should make him the least cocky in my opinion. I think they would do better against Dallas, which is a little uneven in some parts. Boston deserves credit because their roster is so deep. Derek White is having a great playoff, Drew Holliday, and obviously Jaylen and Jason, Al Horford. They're just so deep. They have shooting, Sam Hauser. They, I don't know, statistically speaking on the betting market right now, they have the easiest path to the final. So they have the best odds to win the championship.

But once we're there, whoever comes out of the West, assuming they're healthy, is going to be battle tested in a way that the Celtics simply won't be. And I will be very tempted to take them, particularly if it's Minnesota, the way they're playing. Yeah. I mean, knowing, knowing how the coach of the Celtics operates,

they should lose some games. He should intentionally go to a game seven, feel like he's getting choked out, see if they can respond to adversity. That way when they get to the finals, they're like, yeah, we've had our battles. Yeah, Minnesota's six and O. They've played Kevin Durant, Devin Booker,

Nicole Okich and Jamal Murray, and Boston is what, four and one? Yeah. And they played a heat team that was, you know, without Jimmy Butler and also banged up in other ways. So cocky Hank deserves to be back. And I think you guys have done a good job prefacing this until the finals. Yeah. Cocky Hank is not going to like to, I haven't told them this. I haven't said it out loud. Wolves fans are probably going to be upset at me, but I did take the wolves nine

to one before the nuggets series. Cause I was like, I, I feel like this is going to be upset at me, but I did take the Wolves 9-1 before the Nuggets series because I was like, I feel like this is going to be a tough matchup for the Nuggets. And now Hank's going to, I haven't told him that. He's not going to listen to this part. So we'll just save it and we won't even, I won't even tell him till we get there. But yeah, 9-1, they're already down to like 3-1. Dude, they show up, Jude, whatever it is that Thursday and they're 12-0. They've just swept the Western Conference playoffs. Cocky Hank is going to be. He's gonna be sweating. He's gonna be shitting his self. Sweaty Hank. I think he won't, yeah he won't even know, I'll wait. I think he's gonna start rooting for him. I'll wait and I'll say 9-1.

Yeah, I texted him last night, are you worried about the Wolves? He's like no I think we match up better. Do you think the legal should suspend Jamal Murray for throwing a challenge flag or a heat pack or whatever? Yeah, who is he throwing it at? Unraff maybe that's you know, his throws haven't been very accurate this post. Yeah, we don't know I might be trying to try to throw it to to the trainer. I was saying that like like college football He should have like the targeting rule. He should have just started his suspension in the second half He should have just sat out the second half and been like, see, time served.

I like that. Yeah. It's always interesting when a guy gets the targeting call right at the beginning of the second half. Right. That's the best time to get it, right? Right at the end of the first half. I would think at the end of the first half if you're winning.

Yeah. And that's fine. Yeah. But yeah, he should have just started serving it. So, all right, let's talk about your book real quick. It's Hoop Atlas, Mapping the Remarkable Transformation in the Modern NBA. Everyone buy it.

It is a great book. He gets you smarter about basketball. A lot of pictures. Great Father's Day book. Yeah, a lot of pictures. Great Mother's Day. Mother's Day, Father's Day. Will it ship in time for Mother's Day?

Yes, it will. I promise you, you have my guarantee. Love that. So what is in this book? This book, so it's about the evolution of the NBA since Jordan. So the first chapter is about how Michael really made jump shooting cool

and made perimeter play cool. And that set up the revolution that has sort of taken place in the NBA since the 1990s and really opened up the sport for players like Kobe and Stefan to take jump shooting even higher levels. But long story short, Big Cat, it's about the evolution of the modern NBA and the superstars that changed something or invented something that really you can see when we're watching these games today that what you wouldn't have seen when we're

watching Michael in the early 90s. I like these books. I like the maps that you put out. I like these books. They've got a lot of pictures, a lot of maps inside the books. Are you concerned that you're going to have to rewrite the entire book in two years when Wimby just destroys everything? You've, you've studied basketball and math your entire life. And then Wimby's now in the NBA and you have to throw all of it in the trash. You guys will appreciate that. One of the hard things about writing a sports book

in the 2020s is the discourse moves so fast. And in the summer of 2023, when I'm really writing a lot of this book, the Wemby hype is out of control. And the last chapter is about the evolution of the big man. And Joe Kicic is the centerpiece of that chapter. But I did get a little bit of Wemby in there and I hedged a little bit.

And if I have one regret, I was like, no, this guy's the future of the big man. If I had been able to write this last week, he is the perfect extension of that last chapter because one of the big things, BFD, is he represents the return of the big man, but they're bigger and badder than ever in terms of their skill set.

And I do think that's the next big thing in the NBA is seven-foot dudes that can dribble pass and shoot just like six foot dudes. Yeah, volume 2.0. You'll have to release like a collector's edition. Paperback will have an essay just on Wimby, I'm guessing he'll probably win an MBA. A love letter.

A love letter. A love letter to Wimby. Can you tell us just how good is Wimby in terms of like breaking everything that you've ever studied? Defensively, it's like having, you's like having Will Chamberlain in the gym. He is so much bigger and longer than all these other guys. And some of the plays he's made this year,

I always start the Wembe conversation with defense. If you have, there were some crazy stats. The Spurs, and I love them, have been one of the worst defenses in the NBA over the last five years since they really started tank started tanking let's say and when Wemby was on the court in the second half of the year they were top five defense and it was just insane because they had no business being there he comes off the court they're essentially the worst defense in the league he is defensive efficiency in a can and he will be for the rest of his career if you have this guy on defense you're going to have a

top five defense in the league if you surround him with people like Minnesota has surrounded, uh, go bear with, you can have the best defense in the league. So, and then offensively he can obviously do things that nobody has size has ever been able to do. Yeah. It's crazy. He's, he's so much fun to watch. All right. I have one last question. Row back question. R H O B A C K.com promo code take 20% off your first purchase. Q-ips polos hoodies joggers shorts so in your book Do you have one guy that changed the NBA that we wouldn't assume did? Bruce Bowen, you know, you know the rise of the corner three chapter three is I think one of my favorite chapters and like it Or not the corner three is now one in ten shots in the NBA, the term corner three, big cat,

when you're at Wisconsin, we weren't even using that term. And now we say it like 30 times a night in an NBA broadcast. And Bruce Bowen in the 2003 Spurs really represents the birth of that movement when they beat the three Pete Lakers in the finals. Bruce Bowen's corner threes were a huge reason why? And so I think Popovich Tim Duncan that whole team deserves credit

But Bowen is the focal point and really inventing that 3andd archetype that Jayden McDaniels represents right now or Alexander Walker in Minnesota What about Bruce Bowen kicking someone in the face? In there he's got some all He's got that dog in him, I think. Yeah, he kicked Wally Zerbiak in the face, if you remember. It kind of looked like Antonio Brown returning the kick. He just was like, I can't get to the closeout. Let me just try kicking him in the face. Well, a lot of people don't know this.

Tyrese Halliburton actually put Bruce Bowen in a time machine to go back and do that after Wally Zerbiak had the worst Tyrese Halliburton take of all time earlier, calling him a fake all-star. But I think, yeah, Bruce Bowen was a pretty aggressive defender and pretty handsy and some people might even say dirty. Tripping a little bit, Steve Nash would probably agree with that. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair, but ultimately Bruce Bowen is one of the people.

And then his teammate, Manu Janobili with the Eurostep is another one. Oh yeah, and being able to catch bats. That's right. Which you should never do. No, he had to get rabies shots. Yeah he did. Don't touch a grounded bat. Yeah, he had to get rabies shots in I think the stomach, isn't that what happens?

Yeah you have to get the whole panel of them. Fauci's just creaming his jeans, he's like yeah give him him another shot Oh really? I'm doing my own research on that. It was a bad day. Give him another one. Alright, well everyone should go buy the book. Thank you. Kirk, you're the best. We love having you on. Good luck at the Sphere as well. Yeah, yeah. Good luck.

I'll stay on the lower level just to be safe. Yeah, you gotta let me know. You gotta give me the scouting report because I'm going like a month after you. You know I will be texting you. Yes, absolutely. But yeah know you got to give me the scouting report because I'm going to like a month after you. You know I will be texting you. Yes absolutely but yeah you're the best we love having you on. Thank you guys enjoy the rest of the playoffs. Thanks Kirk. Okay let's wrap up the show we got pardon your take Hank. Yeah. You got some for us. Sure. Also follow Mr. Perry's hot and hockey Mr. Pairs great he is a hockey turtle through and through.

It's my form. Yeah. Okay. Also Mr. Pair has memes stressed constantly means just what he it's it's very funny watching memes interact with Mr. Pair because it's like like having a new child. You'll just walk over and just be like, yep he's sleeping and he's still sleeping he's

constantly worried that he's being fed too much or too little yeah and needs his exercise and he's pooping in his own water is that good I guess turtles do it memes is a turtle expert now memes yeah apparently they do it all the time okay that's cool I found a thread on it They're like my little idiot does it too Is that on tortoise for him that one was on reddit good memes we got to get you like a little Backpack or something that you can take mr. Pair to like the bar like a see-through one like the cats have yeah like a Front like almost like a lanyard that has mr. Pair just hanging out. It's like a chain

We should get we should get him a leash. Yeah We're like a baby like the thing you put the baby in Bjorn really does think it's his baby. Yeah. Yeah, I just put on my chest Yeah Okay Hey PMT. Hey. Hey, this is take I've been sitting on for a couple years I'm convinced if James Bradbury was wearing white gloves in the Eagles last Super Bowl that call is never made in the Eagles Our Super Bowl champs. Hmm. Appreciate you guys. I mean Jules has told us this Many times. Mm-hmm that he would get yelled at for wearing gloves that were you know

You could see someone holding and when he would wear the red gloves and and Bill Belichick would get mad at him Or was it the white gloves? I think it was it depending on what the opponent was wearing Yeah, like if they if your opponent's wearing a white uniform white gloves I think are okay if they're wearing a dark uniform white gloves No, yeah, I want to match it as closely as possible to get away with cheating It does it does feel like a big advantage if you are a defensive back if you're an offensive lineman Why wouldn't you just wear the glove color of the other team's uniform?

Mm-hmm. It's like, Mark Schlereth used to love wearing the burgundy or the gold pants in D.C. because he could piss himself and nobody would ever see. Yeah. When he got to Denver, the white pants, the yellow shows up. So you think that basically everything could be different if James Ratberry had just picked different gloves that day. What a night that would have been.

Damn. Yeah. That's brutal. But guess what? The Eagles are lifting weights. So they're reloaded. Strong. Jalen's so strong. So strong.

So strong. Eagles are good. Are they? Is he the guy? Yeah. Jalen? I saw an interesting. That's a good question.

I think we should talk about it at some point. Yeah. Well, he was injured last year Yeah, our friend Nick Wright had a pretty good rant about Howie Roseman which Made me be like oh interesting That's all Nick Wright does is just try and do create like the opposite of what everyone else is thinking so everyone can have that Reaction, but what did he say it was so he basically was like Howie Roseman?

Does a really good job of drafting off of the experts mock drafts. So every time the Eagles have a draft, everyone's like, holy shit, A plus. They got a guy that we mocked for the first round and the second round. He was also doing it for like the last three years, which how are you supposed to know if those are good or bad picks yet? Honestly I was a GM that's probably yeah it's definitely what I would I would just fire my scouting department and say I'm gonna make a compilation of let everybody else do the I'm it all started when he when he drafted Rager over Justin Jefferson and then he never and

then he never didn't take the consensus guy again I'm not saying it's right or wrong I'm saying it's interesting you know what you're I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying it's interesting. You know what you're doing. I'm saying it's interesting. Can I not say something's interesting? Caleb Williams was the consensus picker from Mocs. That's interesting. Yeah. Big cat ditch in the bears. Just interesting. Caleb Williams because Stephen Che said that they should. Maybe. Albert Breer just put out an entire piece about Caleb Williams and the bears wooing him and it was just porn Just like checked all the boxes checked all the boxes great teammate great, dude It's called Steph Steph Curry like experience watching him throw the football. Oh what? Yeah, I don't know what that means

It means Steph Curry's awesome to watch basketball play basketball. So it's like that awesome to watch play football got it. Yeah trick shots We're doing trick shots this year Ben Sims used to do some pretty cool stuff, too Okay Not really though cuz he had some very cool passes. Yeah, but he couldn't really he was really Part of it. That's a really important part. What does a quarterback do? It is impressive how good he was without being able to shoot. Yeah, no, he is.

He is, we've said this on the show before, but he's the best basketball player of all time if there was no such thing as a rim. Yeah, it'd be like if I was really, really excited about a quarterback who could only run. I would never do that. Or could pass. Which Ben Simmons could also do.

No, no, no, you're missing. No, no, no Shooting is the most important part of basketball without a doubt shooting Putting the ball in the basket is the most important part of basketball. I think it's the dribbling If you can't put the ball in the basket you won't you won't win games rebounding to Sixers Yeah No, but if you if you make every shot then there's no such thing as rebound true shooting I would say is number one putting the ball inside the basket tip-offs

All right part of my take but if James Dolan wasn't the owner of the Knicks We would have been five times or more NBA champions by now. Do you agree and if so what? Shit what owner slash individual would be best to run a mega franchise like the New York Knicks Oh my god This is uh so Knicks fans win one series and they're already ready to give themselves five titles They mean like historically they would be five-time champions How many titles do the Knicks I think he's saying if they were actually had a good owner like like a mark Cuban that was actually Able to get players and cared about the team enough to like you know get the best put Mark Cuban that was actually able to get players and cared about the team enough to like, you

know, get the best players. Mark Cuban is one one. He doesn't. He's not like a dynasty guy. Yeah. Imagine if he was in New York. Um, the best owners. I think about all the thing about all the Stan Kronke the free agents that the Knicks just haven't got. I honestly think that if Donald Trump owned a sports team, it would rock. Yeah, I think it would be the best I mean, there's definitely better owners than than James There's a lot of better owners than James Owen, but I don't know if you put in the best owner They the Knicks automatically have five titles. Who is the best owner in sports? Stan Kronke. Yeah

Is it Mark Cuban a free agent owner? Yeah, he is. Probably some sort of non-compete. Oh, no, we got rid of non-competes. You could probably own him. Best owner. I don't know. Who's the best owner? Robert Kraft.

Yeah. Who's the best owner? I mean, the Steelers, I guess, their owners. The Rooney family. Been doing it for so long. Tony Khanned Tony Khan Yeah, definitely up the Balmers electric. That's a good owner Josh Harris, I mean the Warriors owners like I feel like the best owners are the owners that just by the team

They're like money's not a problem And we're just gonna hire the smartest people we can find and then not touch it and then not touch it Green Bay Packers best owners hands-off hands-off owners yeah okay five titles I feel like that's a lot if the entire city of New York had a collective ownership of the New York Knicks that would be awesome yeah that would be great they'd actually be I think they'd be worse than James Dolan yeah what it's crazier than the Knicks having five titles? Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah. Florida would have won the football national championship

in 2001 had 9-11 not happened and the Tennessee game got rescheduled. Interesting. Let's discuss. That's a take. That's a take. I mean, let's think about it. Let's look up the Florida schedule in 2001.

OK. Wasn't that the Miami team that was like the greatest football team of all time? Yeah, but is that the year they lost to Ohio State? No, the year after is when they lost to Ohio State. That was the Miami team that was one of the best teams of all time. So yeah, I feel like maybe not, but I like this take just because it's good to just sit there and just tell people that. Just be like, hey, we would have won it all. I'm looking at 2001 football schedule right now for Miami. The game that was delayed, September 22nd at Kentucky, they won 44 to 10.

Florida. Yeah, Florida beat Kentucky 44 to 10. When did they play Tennessee? December 1st. Much later in the season. It was supposed to be September 15th. Right. Oh, so that's the one that got moved. Yeah, okay, and let's okay They defeated him in week 13 34 32 all right now again Miami did not lose a game that year so that feels pretty important

The only loss Florida had no they lost that Auburn. Ah, that's tough. But they finished number three. So maybe the way that season broke, they could have snuck in at number two with one loss. OK, I'm looking at Tennessee's early season schedule that year. See how they were at the start of the year. They beat Arkansas 13 to 3 September 8. Not great.

Not that impressive of a win. It feels like Tennessee wasn't playing their best ball. And then after 9-11, Tennessee beat LSU number 14, 26 to 18. So the argument would be that they would have gotten in over Nebraska who had one loss in the BCS national title, still think Miami would have won that game. They might have, yeah. But they, I mean, can you imagine a Miami against Florida? Would have been great. It would have won that game. They might have yeah, but they I mean can you imagine a Miami against Florida would have been great It would have been awesome. What about either way?

I like this take because it's just it's something you can just sit down and just be like yeah We could have won it all if it wasn't for Osama bin Laden and Miami did did kind of pace Nebraska I hope this guy is old enough that he was mad about that in real time because that means he's like 50 Yeah, which is just very funny like it's better than if he was like, you know, just a Florida fan That's like looking up the stats and and you know if he actually remembers 2001 season and he was mad in real time. I respect that take Yeah, I respect that take as well Oregon also was very good that you're only had one loss Do you think there's Colorado in their bowl game, which Colorado was also good.

Yeah, I'm gonna say they could have been to the national title, they would have lost to Miami. Do you think that there's any Tennessee fans out there, or just fans of college football, that during the moment in 2001, when they announced that they were delaying all the games, they were like, this is bullshit. Clay Travis. College football. Yeah. We need college football

We need football will help us heal I feel like every fan has like one moment though that they go like way back in time and be like we would have won It all if this wasn't oh for sure that didn't happen They'll know what I won the national championship in 2005 if there wasn't the biggest Phantom Travel call of all time on Yeah, Justin Justice Winslow touched it in the national title game against Wisconsin. That's a fact. Fact.

Yeah, I like this take. I think Ninja wrote this one. Punters should be better. You're one of 32 people in the world that do this for a job. I don't understand how they don't drop it within five yard line every single time. Yeah, that's Ninja. One shank punch should lead to immediate termination.

Also, more fat punters is objectively better for the game. Agreed. I agree with that. I kind of agree with this take. Kickers in general should just be better, because that's their only job. Well, they are the best that they've ever been. Yeah, but they should even be better than that.

They will be better at some point. I agree with this take for punters. Especially what always weirds me out is when there's a good punter in college and then he goes to the NFL and he sucks. It's literally the same job. Different ball. Yeah, slightly, but still. I feel like if you're a great college punter, there's no excuse to not be a great NFL punter.

Punters should be better. I also think that golfers should be better at putting. Yeah, just put it in the hole. That's something, if you're a professional golfer, you should just never miss a putt. Anything 10 feet and in should never be missed, ever. But that's just me. I wouldn't miss it if I were a professional golfer.

You know who the best punter of all time is low key? Big Ben. He's a pretty good punter, yeah. The pooch punts were a lecker. He did have good pooch punts. What other sports should players be better? foul shots foul shots definitely open threes. Yeah, every open three should be made all the time to make those. Yeah, I Feel like can kicks penalty kicks tennis players should never double fault. I agree tennis players never do tennis players

Outfielders should never miss a ball Yeah, hockey players just shoot more you'll score more goals. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a fact. Also don't let any soft ones Can't let soft one and never left let a soft one in What do you think Hank? You mean baseball and hockey are tough free throws is definitely Everyone should every NBA player should be 80% better than free throws soccer players should also never understand Why tall people are bad at free throws that's never made sense to me? Yeah, you're shooting like down to soccer players should also be better at scoring goals

Yeah, just in general like I always when I'm watching a game like kick it from 30 feet out that should go in every time A football player should never miss a tackle. In fact, they should take pride in their tackling. Yeah, agreed. Wrap up. Agreed. Okay, is that it? Good part in your takes, like that.

All right, let's do numbers. Max, have you ever gotten this? Nope. Eight. 20. PFT, have you ever gotten this? 46. Not yet.

Three. 72. 18. Please tune in to the Wells Fargo Championship on PJ Tour Live this week. Max Hummel will be playing. 99 put. Max, what'd you say? You've never gotten this? Yeah, PFT also said that he's never gotten this. No, I said I haven't gotten it yet. Yep. Tell the whole story, Max.

Oh. 26. Oh my god. No, you weren't that close. From my angle, I'm far away. I thought I hit it. No, you didn't though. You weren't that close. So did Hank. Hank thought I hit it too. No, I thought I hit it with 46. No one thought I hit it. No, you didn't though. You weren't that so did Hank Hank thought he hit it I hit it too. No, I thought I hit it with 46. No one thought you hit it

No one thought you were well, no one thought I get it either fuck face 26 is way closer to 46 and 20 How explained cuz it's got this it's got the six and a two if you look, you know from the block Yeah, kind of looks like a four. Yeah,. Well there's a 0 inside of a 6. That's a good point. No there's not. Yes there is. A small little 0. Who was closer?

Uh Hank. Hank. Hank was way closer. Hank used to be the loser in this game. Yeah then I won. It's pretty simple. And I won again. All you gotta do is pick the right number Max.

It's not that hard. Yeah PFT it's not that hard. PFT's going to. He's just waiting. Yeah PFT it's not that hard. Yeah, PFT. It's not that hard if he's going to he's Yeah, we have t. It's not that hard. Why are you talking to me? I didn't think I won this one All right, I'm not so pressed about let's do another one that I'm imagining numbers coming up our first double in a while Max is so mad. He's a little counts this counts. We'll do another one numbers. I'm gonna stick with eight 46 3 20 72 Numbers I'm a stick with eight 46 three twenty

72 99 Pug The cats boxing out the machine no one can see the number. Oh, 79. I thought it was 72. I thought it was 99. I was so close. Pug is a dynasty. Oh no, 79, so close.

Love you guys. I don't know what I'm to say I've said anyway Today's an out day to find you shining away I've been coming for your love of gold I've been coming for your love of gold Take on me Take me on I'll be gone in a day or two Needless to say, I won't say yes

But I'll be stoned away Learning, learning that life is okay Say after me, it's for better to be safe than sorry It's for better to be safe than sorry Take on me, take me on I'll be gone in a day Thanks for watching!