Parks and Recollection - Adam Scott: Win, Lose, or Draw (S4E22)

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Adam Scott (Ben Wyatt himself!) joins Jim O’Heir and Greg Levine to discuss his character’s surprising plot twist in Parks & Recreation’s season four finale: “Win, Lose, or Draw”. Plus, the instant connection he felt to Amy in their first scene together, the ballroom dance lessons he took with Jim, and the cryptic note Aubrey Plaza passed him during his first table read.  Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail]!

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pits we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on, little podcast Spread your wings and fly Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Parks and Recollection. I am one of your hosts, Jim O'Hare,

the guy who played Gary, Larry, Jerry, Terry, even Barry from Johnny Karate. And who's the other guy? Well, I'm your other host. It's Greg. Greg Levine. Oh, Greg, that's it. Yeah.

Jim, we got to cut to the chase. We have a very special guest here with us. I feel like perhaps the most special actor, comedian, producer, most recently starred in Apple TV's Severance. He's also a fellow podcaster, co-host of the podcast You Talkin' You Too To Me with Scott Aukerman. Nominated twice for the Critics' Choice Award for Best Actor in a Comedy Series

for his work on, hey, this show, Parks and Recreation. This show! And most importantly for us here today on our episode, we have the Calzone-loving Conesones of Dunshire-creating, accounting pun-making, Leslie Knope-loving Ben Wyatt. We have Adam Scott. Adam Scott, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, you guys. So good to see you, Jim. So good to see you, Greg. Hello, sir. I'm doing great. I'm so glad I'm able to be on the show. I know we've been trying to do it for a while, and I'm so excited. You are a busy man. It's all good. We're just glad to have you. Yes. You know what? We're going to get into the episode because people love to hear about individual episodes, and we're doing season four finale. But before that, just because I know I would want to know what happened, you came to the show later. You came at the end of season two. So we had already done, what did we say, 28 episodes? 28 episodes, yep.

20 episodes. What is it like? Like, how did it happen? How did you end up with us? And what's it like coming into a show that's already doing, you know, it's doing its thing? Yeah. Well, I was a big fan of the show. I was an avid watcher of it.

So getting the call was super weird and incredibly exciting. I was doing Party Down at the time, and we had just finished shooting season two and were waiting to find out if we were picked up for season three, and it wasn't looking good. It seemed like it probably wasn't going to happen. And Mike had sort of heard about that out in the ether that Party Down was in trouble as far as being renewed goes. And so he, being a fan of Party Down, just called me in for a meeting and I went in and met all the writers and sat down with Mike and just chatted for a little while. And we got along. I mean, Mike's an incredibly easy person to get along with.

And then it was a matter of deciding whether or not to do it, which was the easiest decision in the world. The only thing was Party Down wasn't officially canceled yet. canceled yet. So I was in this tough place where we all knew it was going to be canceled, but it not being official, taking another job was really hard. So I remember talking to a contact I had fairly high up at stars saying like, if I say Party Down is going to be canceled, if you just don't say anything, that means yes. It was one of those things. Right, right, right. Because he couldn't say anything. He didn't want to compromise himself, but he was very nice and helped me out and let me know that it was indeed going to be canceled so I could take this job. Wow. But did you initially audition for Parks when the auditions were first happening?

Did I hear that? Yeah, back in the day, I auditioned. I think it was before there were really roles. Yeah. They were just auditioning people with like, I don't even know what the size were. I actually just pulled up our list of all the people we brought in for the roles, and you came in for Mark officially. Oh, okay.

Then that's what it was. But it was all just sides that were written because I don't think the show had been written yet. The pilot hadn't been written yet. I remember one of my auditions was with Rashida, I believe. Yes. And Nick was there. But obviously you did something in that audition that,

between that and then Party Down, which I was also still a huge, huge Party Down fan. Oh, thanks, Jim. So I remember when you and Rob first came to the first table read, it was, you know, exciting because, you know, first there's Rob Lowe and he's Rob Lowe. Okay. We all know, you know, been around forever, uh, movies, TV, blah, blah. So that was exciting, but I was super excited for you because of party down. So it was, yeah, that was a big day. But when you, when you first show up for the first table, were you nervous about it? Or were you, you know, what you learned quickly, I'm sure we were pretty relaxed

crowd. There was no craziness. It was just an amazing place. I was very nervous. And I remember driving in and parking. And right when I was parking in that parking garage that's sort of adjacent to our stage there, I remember thinking, oh, I don't have very much time. And I need to walk all the way over to that building get in an elevator and go all the way up and I I had timed it so I got I would get there like five minutes early and I guess I did but in the process of parking and everything it meant I was going to walk into that room exactly at whatever time the thing started which was a big mistake because I walk in, everyone is already seated and the room is packed with people

like our table reads were. And so that was, I was already, that just kind of compounded my nervousness. But as the table reads were, it was an incredibly warm room. And I remember at the end of the table read, I kind of breathed a sigh of relief and Aubrey walked up to me and passed me a note.

And it was like folded up really, really small. And I opened it up. Do you remember the movie, the Scorsese movie, Shutter Island? Sure, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember in that movie leonardo dicaprio and mark ruffalo go to the mental hospital and i think someone passes them a note yeah at the time it was

like this famous moment that just happened in like a big movie and i'm just trying to remember what the note said i think it said hell oh i i think the note just says run, right? Oh, that's what it was. That's what it was. Run. That's what the note said. Yes. So, anyway. Actually, that's the perfect welcome. The perfect welcome from Aubrey. Everyone was just lovely.

Yes. I was thinking about how Mike has a story that he had to post it on his computer that said Nick Offerman or something like that. When he knew of Nick and they had met, he's like, Nick would be great for something. And I just want him in the ether in my brain to me. And my perspective from the writing side of things is that you were just one of the names that was talked about, right? So were you there when I came and auditioned for it?

I was, yeah. He fought against you, Adam. He was like, I don't want him, whatever. But thankfully he had no power. So here we are. I said, there's no, don't even bother reading him. It's like, let's just go get lunch. But no, the truth is that,

and I learned it a lot from working on this show specifically, is that sometimes you bring somebody in who's amazing and you're like, this person needs to be in our world, but perhaps this role is not the way they need to be in our world. And so they just stick around. And so this is one of those amazing moments of, I think you came in at both the right time on the series and for the exact role you're supposed to be there for. Yeah, 100%. I mean, completely. And I remember really, really, really wanting the job then when I originally auditioned for it, which is probably part of the reason I'm sure my audition was off because of that. It's part of the trick of auditioning is audition was off because of that. It's part of

the trick of auditioning is, you know, Jim, it's the worst. And if you want it really badly, you're usually leaning in a little too hard in the audition. And it's this weird middle ground that you have to hit that I was never very good at hitting. But I remember back in, I think it was 2007, I was shooting an indie in Connecticut, like out in the middle of a snowy tundra in this cabin with Naomi and Graham when he was six months old and reading online that there was going to be an office spinoff that made sure, and Greg Daniels were going to do something. And that's all it was. And I remember I was on this HBO show, Tell Me You Love Me, which was a super serious drama.

And we had shot a season of it. We're waiting like literally a year till we started another season. And it was just really, really trying. Like when you're on a show, but it shoots once every three years, it's really hard to like scrape together car payments or whatever. So I remember calling my agent and saying, can you get me off of this show and get me an audition for the office spinoff? So this thing was always in my mind as something that I really wanted to do. And then it was like a year later that I actually went and auditioned for it for you guys. So there was all this build

up in my mind of this being something that I really felt like I needed to do. And so I'm sure that did not help in the room. But you're right that Ben Wyatt was a much better fit for me and at a much better time to kind of come into the show. It just all felt right. It's so weird. And this is no slight. Paul Schneider began the show. He did the first two seasons. When I think of the show, and I'm not just saying this because we're talking,

I don't think of it without you. To me, you were there from day one. Oh, that's nice, Jim. But it's just the fact. And yet, Paul was great and all that stuff. But when I think of Parks, I think of all of us, and you are in there in my head from day one.

So I think that says something about how easily you fit in. It was like so seamless that there you were. That's very nice. And yeah, Paul Schneider is an incredible actor. Oh, yeah. I'm so happy I didn't have to fill his shoes that it was a completely different circumstance and character and everything because I wouldn't have been able to. And Jim, also, you were so kind from day one. Like at that first table, we came up and chit-chatted and, you know, like you're just such a nice, welcoming person, more than I can say for

Aubrey Plaza. Well, that's hurtful, Adam, but okay, we'll move on. Yeah, other than Aubrey. No, as I have said, people are so sick of me saying it. For me, it was seven years of that. It was seven years of people getting along and laughing and having a good time. And we've all been on shows where that's not the case, where there's weirdness and jealousies. And, you know, I don't know everything that went on,

but from my perspective, I didn't see any of that. And so, yeah, to me, it was just a gift. Seven years of a gift. Totally. You know, we should soon jump into the episode we're here to talk about. Yeah, we should talk about this episode. I have one more question for you, Adam, specifically about this when you first joined the show. As Jim was saying, you guys came in, you came in with Rob.

As Jim was saying, you guys came in, you came in with Rob. The two of you came in in the same episode, which I think is also unique to introduce two new series regulars. I think at the time there was like, let's see how it works out. Let's bring these people in and let's try the storyline. Totally. Something I've been thinking about now rewatching it is there was this intense focus because it's Rob Lowe on Rob Lowe joining the show. And he had this very quick romantic storyline with Rashida's character. And I think it allowed your

character to kind of, in a way, it was like disarming. It was like the secret, like, actually, this character is going to have perhaps the greatest arc. He could be the most pivotal character for our main character, Leslie. And I think it allowed, from the writing perspective, for Ben to slowly just become. Yeah. If that makes sense. Just become who he became at the end of the series. And I'm just curious, for you joining, if there was this sense of that same thing, the pressure's off, I just get to have fun with these people. in politics and in public service and is gifted in politics and public service, but had this really tough beginning for entering into politics and this embarrassing backstory that he is

ashamed of. Um, and, and I guess humiliated by, um, and that's just so great for an actor to have that kind of backstory. And so Mike and, and all you guys really gave me a real gift with that. And yeah, I, I think also, you know, I did watch, um, I think the master plan for some reason. I think it was on TV or something. And, you know, that first scene that Amy and I have where we really sit down and talk at the bar, it's really terrific. then too that there was just sort of immediately this ease and this connection between amy and i where um it just felt right and these characters needed each other and they had no idea how much and that they kind of fit together like puzzle pieces. And kind of immediately, though they don't actually face up to it for a while, but in that conversation at the bar, they just immediately are able to connect. Ben's able to see right into her

and see her ambition, exactly who she is. She's taken aback by that. And Benji, you know, Ben White being this like child mayor was clearly something she kind of connected to as a little girl. So it's really beautifully constructed and written. And on the day it really felt right and really kind of immediately sort of locked into place.

At least for me i you know and i was quite nervous the first few episodes just sort of getting on my feet but as jim will attest you know working with amy you can you're immediately put at ease and there's just sort of this uh immediate uh connection to uh to her and to the material. It was all really, really fun and really lovely. And the crew as well. The crew is the best. Yeah, really locked in and sweet and hardworking and happy. I was really grateful that I had landed there. And it's such a relief as an actor when you get that feeling of,

wow, I have found this. I have found who this character is. I know who it is. And then the writers learn how to write for you because now they're getting to know you. And that's so important when they can write for us as individuals. And it just seemed pretty seamless for Ben Wyatt, you and Ben. Yes. It seemed easy. And the other episode, I know we got to get into this episode, but just that I am always, people throw at me, they love the anniversary episode

where you and I, you know, Ben and Jerry become buddies because Leslie is not available to do the things you have planned for the anniversary. So we dance together. We cook together. We take a carriage ride.

A carriage ride out in front of City Hall. Out in front of City Hall. Yeah. That was a fun episode. So fun. Listeners who have not seen that episode yet, it's kind of like now it's like we're talking about a fever dream, which is like, oh, you joined the show.

And like you had this scene at a bar and like, we're going to have to have a carriage ride around City Hall with Ben and Jerry. Was that season five? I think it's six. I think it's six. Yeah. And we're jumping. I'm just saying I hear about that episode all the time.

And I don't know if you remember that. That was really fun. Adam, but remember they sent us to, we had to learn how to do some ballroom dancing. We had dance lessons. We had dance lessons, yes. That's right. Yes, we had dance lessons. And then, I don't know if you remember this,

but when we were, you know, because we were dancing together and then during one of the takes, I heard a pop. That's right, Jim. Yes. Oh my God. Something snapped in my calf.

That's right. Damn. Yeah, I ended up on crutches for like a week. Thankfully, Jim. Yeah. Oh, my God. Something snapped in my calf. That's right. Damn. Yeah, I ended up on crutches for like a week and a half. Thankfully, it was nothing. What? But I remember, and you looked at me like, I heard that. Yeah. I completely forgot about that.

Yeah, that was so gross. It just popped. That's right. Yeah. That was a fun episode. I remember it being more serious than a week and a half, but I'm glad to hear that it was only that. But I do remember seeing you the next day at work and you were on crutches. I was like, holy shit, dude.

That was crazy. So then when we actually shot the dance, you were probably uncomfortable or in pain. Oh, it was tough. Yeah, in pain. But you know, I'm basically a hero, Adam, in many ways. And so, of course, I got through it.

People throw that word around. They do. But I think finally, you see who it is. Yeah, they amputated my leg and by the next week, they had put another one on and I continued with the show

because I'm not a crybaby. Seamless transition. Yes. Well, let's get into our episode because we have so much to talk about. And it's a big episode. It's Win, Lose, or Draw. It's the season four finale written and directed by Mike Schor. and originally aired on May

10th, 2012. And Jim, if you can read a little blurb for us. I will give you the blurb. It's election day and Leslie is neck and neck with Bobby Newport in the polls. Ben contemplates a major life change when he's offered a new job that would take him away from Pawnee. And April panics after a potential career-ending mishap at the Parks Department. We have one notes notes for this which is that when adult film star Brandy Max, which I don't know if everybody knows has four X's in her name, gets an early lead in the election, Leslie comments, what is this, Italy? And this is a reference to a Hungarian-Italian porn star who was elected to the Italian parliament in 1987.

Well, who wouldn't know that? Yeah, exactly. You didn't need to say that. No, they didn't have to tell us that. Oh, sorry. We were all right there. No, sorry, that's a nope's no. I guess you already know it.

Yeah. And let's jump into our episode with our synopsis. Election day is finally upon the good people of Pawnee, and the NOPE campaign once again finds itself having to break through roadblocks. With a razor-thin margin between candidates, the Newport campaign is trying to place rigged voting machines around the city, dispensing free candy bar vouchers for Bobby Newport votes, and the sound of a crying baby for votes for Leslie Knope. Meanwhile, at JJ's diner, Tom briefs the team

on the results party he's planning for later that night, and the dream he had about getting back together with Anne. Later at a polling place, Ben gets a surprising job offer from Newport's campaign manager, Jennifer Barkley, to work on a congressional campaign in Washington, D.C. So a lot is happening in this episode. I mean, you know, watching this episode and any of the episodes, like, I think from like season, maybe season three on, I don't totally remember, but there is so much happening and it's 21 minutes. The amount of story that is packed into the episode, but it doesn't feel rushed. It's just like firing on all cylinders. It's all working. And if you watch early episodes, you, I don't know, you guys probably talk about this all the time, but how much less story is packed in there. And for good reason, you're still getting to know the characters and stuff. But now we know everybody. We know exactly what's, what circumstances. There's just so much in here. It's really great. I've said many times when we've been doing these podcasts that every week I would leave the table read and think, holy crap, they did it again. Because I just kept

thinking they're not going to be able to keep up with this pace and these solid storylines and these legit storylines. Because a lot of shows, they hit a wall here and there or a season here and there that just feels a little wonky. In my opinion, I'm a bit biased, but I don't feel we ever did that. I just think episode after, I was just like, how the hell do they do this? Yeah. I was always amazed by the pack and so much,

and it's all legit. It's not, you know what I mean? It's all good stuff. Yeah. Yeah, there's almost a sweetness to the simplicity of the early episodes, right? Which is like a gift basket was $35 and Leslie accepted it. I'm like, oh my God, that's like a scene in an episode.

Yeah, totally. So there's this little joke which made me laugh. I love rewatching the episodes and being reminded of moments, scenes, bits that I completely forgot. And that is that the election commissioner talks about the tie vote protocol, which is that he says, I will certify the results after all the precincts have reported. A final tally with 1% will trigger an automatic recount. In the event of an exact tie, the seat is awarded to the male candidate and the female candidate is put in jail. Goes to jail. Yeah.

That is nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. And I think that joke actually does double duty, right? It's just a funny joke, but it also just reminds you of like the headwinds that Leslie's up against in a way. Absolutely.

But also it has history to it because we all know Pawnee's really like dirty history, like both with its relationship to the Native Americans that were there. Oh, yeah. These like archaic, weird laws that are on the books. Yes. Magicians, we didn't like magicians.

They were demons. Yes. There's a lot of things we didn the books. Yes. Magicians. We didn't like magicians. They were demons. Yes. There's a lot of things we didn't like. Yes. And also later in the episode, when Leslie actually mentioned something about if she loses, she'll have to fight from jail as if that was going to be what would happen. She would end up in jail.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So crazy. I also was laughing about in Tom's dream, he's talking about that it was him and Drake and the T-Mobile girl

were playing Baccarat on a private jet and I was thinking who was the T-Mobile girl at this time but such a specific reference from the early 2010s yeah I don't remember who that was either oh we're getting a note

that the T-Mobile girl was Carly Fulks, if I'm pronouncing that right. Apologize if I'm not. The spokeswoman for T-Mobile from 2010 to 2013 and known for her iconic pink and black leather motorcycle gear. All right, Carly. Shout out to Carly. Yeah, thank you, Carly. All right, Carly. Shout out to Carly.

Yeah, thank you, Carly. Another big thing we like to talk about on this show, and we joked about in the writer's room, is gifts, parties, and jobs. Adam, I don't know if you know this, but there was this observation made by a writer once that it seems like every episode has at least a gift given, a party thrown, or someone gets a new job. That's really funny.

I think it's a nice way to talk about the inherent sweetness of the show. And Ben is incredulous when Jen offers him a coordinating spot on the Ohio re-election bid. Adam, did you see this kind of twist coming?

Did you know going into this that there was going to be a storyline set in D.C.? I think I did. I'm sure Mike would have told this that there was going to be a storyline set in DC? I think I did. I think, I'm sure Mike would have told me that we were going to like open season five with Aubrey and I in DC. I think that's what it was. That it was like planned out. Yeah, I think I did know. Yeah.

And we thought it was really exciting and be super fun, which it was. Yeah, because we'll wind up going. Like we shot in D.C., right? Oh, totally. Oh, my God, which we'll have to talk about then. We had so many politicians in D.C. I know. John McCain was on the show.

Yes. McCain, Biden. Yeah. Biden, totally. Michelle Obama. Like, I mean, that's crazy when you think about it. Yeah. But also to jump back a little, when you are offered that job by Jen Barkley, of course, you think she's about to scam you in some way because this is Jen Barkley.

Right. Who played by Katherine Hahn, who is, of course, so brilliant and so sweet and lovely and funny and so perfect in this role. And poor thing hasn't worked since Parks, but you know, she'll have me. You never know. Maybe something will happen. Maybe something will happen. You never know. Yeah, all pulling for her.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely pulling for her. No, Catherine is so funny. Like when the gift certificate for the candy bar comes out, she's like, I don't see the problem. for the candy bar comes out, she's like, I don't see the problem. She's the dirtiest, most sort of conniving political operator.

And so I think that, but I think her offering the job, yes, it's suspicious, but underneath it is also like, oh, so for the audience, at least, it's like, oh, so Ben is good at this. Like, this is someone like her who, when all is said and done, is a professional,

is offering him a job. Like, so there is something, some real kind of talent here as far as his political acumen goes. Right. It's not just Pawnee good, right? It's not just a town that has a Pert Hapley that Ben can do this.

That's right. And it's interesting. It makes me think of when we first meet Catherine's character, we meet Jen Barkley, and she's complimentary of Leslie and Ben and what they're doing and the work they've done on the campaign. And then she, at the same time, just beats them on TV

and is like, I'm cutthroat. And so there's something quite disarming about her just in the same minutes of trying to rig an election. Yeah, she did respect them though. She respects their capabilities, but yet she's got a job to do and she's being paid

by the Newport campaign. Yeah, absolutely. I also want to call out, we have Paul Rudd in this episode too, who is just unbelievable and such a silly clown of a character. And I just laughed so hard watching that when Rudd giggles and goofs off with the boom mic at the end of their press conference. so she's like an annoyed mom when she says like don't touch it like kind of yeah yeah like she's she's witnessed versions of his stupidity forever and i just don't have the patience anymore but i just have to say don't touch it yeah it's so funny because she's he is her opponent but he's so dumb he doesn't even really realize this and likes Leslie. But even through like the debate episode too,

I remember him after the debate, doesn't he come up and just be like, hey, what are you guys doing? Like he wants to hang out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, yes.

He's so dumb. Well, Andy mentions he can't vote for himself. He's pretty sure that's illegal. Yeah, right, right, right. So he's going to vote for Leslie. Yeah. And you're buddies with Paul, right?

You guys knew each other way before this? Yeah. Paul and I go way back. And so this whole, this kind of era of the show was particularly fun and has particularly great memories because we were all like,

that episode, we're on the bus. It was so much fun driving around and it's Han and Paul and Rashida, Amy. You got like, it was so much fun. That whole bus, all that bus stuff was super fun, right? That was the episode just before this, yeah. Yeah, okay, so it was the one right before.

Yeah, yeah, we just talked about that. Yeah, it was so great. I remember totally off topic, but having lunch, and I did not know Catherine until I met her on the show, and we were all having lunch. Remember we shot at that mansion? The bus pulled up to some big mansion. I don't know where the hell we were.

And we were just sitting in the backyard, and this happens to me many, many, many times, and I actually love it, where I'll be sitting with a group of people and think, how is this happening? And because I was such a big fan of Catherine's, that was one of those moments. Like, how am I having lunch and just sitting and chatting with Catherine Hahn? And then, you know, and then Amy and you.

And anyway, I actually love those moments because it means I'm not jaded. I haven't lost the excitement of the biz. Totally. Yeah, you're like observing your life. You're like both there and you're like watching it. Like, yeah. Yeah.

It's almost like there's a ghost of you in the corner of the room. Yes. Yeah. But I love it. And she couldn't have been, oh my God, what a sweetheart. What a sweetheart.

Well, let's continue on with the episode. On that note, on that note, wrapping things up at campaign headquarters, Chris Traeger seems to be back to his old self as he describes. I couldn't believe it watching it that this scene made it. His wild one-night stand with Jen Barkley telling Anne about it.

Meanwhile, at City Hall, April has gone into a full-fledged panic attack after accidentally erasing every file from every computer in the Parks Department. And back at the voting precinct, Ben tells Leslie about his big job offer, sending Leslie reeling and upstaging what she thought would be the happiest moment of her life, casting a ballot for herself in the city council election.

I love that moment where she gets to vote for herself. It's really lovely. I totally agree. The thing about Amy, yes, we all know her as a comedic actress, but oh, she can bring the emotion. She can bring the whole thing. And I just, first of all, I love,

because I'm labeled comedy guy. It's so nice when you get the opportunity to do more than just what people expect. And boy, did she nail that. Like, if you didn't get chills watching her do that and see her emotion, then you're dead. You're just dead. This might jump too much into the minutia of the show, but maybe that's interesting. Which is that, you know, The Office was this great mockumentary that appreciated

I think the documentary idea that someone was making this and so the idea of spy shots or catching a character when they didn't know they were being filmed

and they forgot they're being filmed in this fake documentary was very important so you'll see some of the people in their most real moments in spy shots

we always loved the spy shots like through the blind the spy shots, like, through the blinds of the office. Like, I think our first kiss is through there. But we always liked spy shots because it makes your acting seem better. Yeah, there's, you guys, there's probably no camera in the room with you at that

point, right? Right. Just, like, a visual obstruction just makes acting look, seem better. Like, it increases your acting ability by like three. Yeah. And this is embarrassing to say,

but sometimes I would have to say, where the hell is the camera? Like, I didn't even know where it was. And the good actors should probably always know that, but,

well, you're not a good actor. I am not a good actor. So, there we go. But I bring up the spy shots because I think something about this scene

is really interesting, which is the camera's there. Yeah, yeah. The camera's in there with her. And so we rarely get to see it. It's a very close camera and a tight voting booth of Leslie in perhaps the most significant moment of her entire life, this longtime dream. moment of her entire life, this long-time dream. I think that's really interesting that normally in this show, we wouldn't be seeing that person so vulnerable and so close up. So that just struck me. Yeah. Yeah. So we should hit on Chris's... Oh, please. Wow. What would you call it? His... His romp.

Stamina? Stamina? How many times? Several times, and then more times, and then a couple more times, and then one more time. That would put him at 10. That's right. That would put him at 10 rounds in one evening. Yeah. I can see Chris Traeger.

I mean, it's not surprising for Chris Traeger that he's able to do this. I could see Jennifer just being like, yeah, sure. Let's just keep doing this and then leave. Yeah. I'm in the zone. Let's go.

Sure. Yeah. With anyone else, you'd go, oh, that's just so stupid and ridiculous. But this is Chris Traeger. It could have happened. He is the perfect physical specimen. It could have happened. He was probably wearing Bumbleflex at the time.

Oh, 100%. Exactly. happened it's probably wearing bumbleflex at the time oh yeah 100 exactly um you know i i also love this little beat this little story with um andy and april there's something very simple it was one of those things where we just you know they're serious regulars they're important but there are big stories happening for other characters right now and at the culmination of 22 episodes of an election storyline, which is going to take a lot of the weight of the app. And so we just put them back in the office together in a way, kind of where their romance began. And it's an episode that we'll talk about very easily gets summed up with Donna's help, but it just puts these two people at a crossroads pretty much to help set up some

storyline for the next season. And I love how when Andy comes in and he sees April in this state after her big gaffe, he's like, first of all, you did the right thing by hiding under this table. And

then he stumbles under, he clums under it, and he's like, he's like, he matches her energy, scurrying under there. And I just think that was something very sweet. Greg, what storyline were we setting up for next season? Andy pursuing being a police officer? Yeah. But then what ends up happening? He doesn't end up doing that, right?

He does. He goes through, I think, the process, but doesn't actually decide to become one. Was the original idea that Andy would end up being like a cop? I don't think there was ever a conversation at the time, at least when we were writing this, that we will build to that happening for sure.

It was just like, let's... Yeah, I mean, in this season, Andy had gone to school for a little bit and there is this idea of perhaps an evolution in his character going beyond just you're a shoeshine guy to you're a stand-in assistant to you, you know. So I think the idea was to have a storyline

that would be fun to pursue for him, but would offer a great pursue for him. Yeah. But would offer a great opportunity for just other comedy. Also, when you have cops, it was fun because we know that Ben has this deep stress around cops. So it just becomes a comedy game. Nothing better than Ben around a cop. Yeah. Nothing better than that.

Ben didn't like cops. Terrified. And which is so funny because Ben is, I can't imagine he ever says anything wrong, or at least, you know. I know. To get in jail. Pretty law-abiding, generally.

He seems like a pretty law-abiding guy, and yet just terrified. Yeah, and putting Andy in any situation, any structured situation, is kind of instant comedy anyway. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Listeners and gymnos, I'm a major West Wing fan.

Oh God, me too. And, you know, the series is just laden with little either direct call outs like the live ammo episode being a direct quote from a west wing up to ethel beavers original we've you know first found out found her on an episode of the west wing all of this to say is that leslie's two speeches, it reminds me of the West Wing election storyline, and Sam is shocked that Toby wrote two speeches for Bartlett's reelection.

And then Toby is just in utter shock that he wouldn't have, and they have him go outside and spit, turn around and spit several times. Yeah, turn around and spit. Yes, yes. So this will come back, but I wanted to reference it

because I think it's just another little moment of like, oh, this was, I think, the kind of the spiritual cousin to West Wing in many ways. Yeah, 100%. What's the, when Brad Whitford was on the show, we had the napkin behind him. Yes. And it said his character for Pawnee, right?

Pilner for Pawnee, yeah. Pilner for Pawnee, right. Yes, yes. So cool for Pawnee, right. Yes, yes. So cool. As a West Wing fanatic myself, being in that scene was a very big deal. Oh, that's cool. Yes.

Because Mike Schur was also a huge fan, right? Mike Schur is just a super fan. Mike and I actually were guests on the West Wing Weekly together a few years ago. Yeah, nice. Well, let's go back into our series then with more storyline, which is that with the election results beginning to roll in, Jerry returns to the results party and panics,

realizing that after spending so much time handing out nope campaign leaflets, he has run out of time to vote and concoct the election. He was so proud. I've never handed out this money before. Damn, I did it. And then Ron.

We'll get back to the synopsis, but it reminds me of when Jerry was stuffing the mailers. It's just pride in the work of business. Yeah. Government work. Gotta do it.

Meanwhile, Ben's new job offer hangs heavy on Ben and Leslie's minds and takes Leslie to a boxing gym to burn off some election night jitters and convinces Leslie to tell Ben to stay, while Ben seeks guidance from Ron, who also advises Ben to stay.

Back at the Newport campaign offices, Chris tracks down Jennifer to try and form a deeper connection, but instead the two end up hooking up again, this time in the supply closet. I want to talk about Ron's scene with Ben, because one, you know it's a busy episode if Ron's first scene, I think his first line of dialogue, is the second scene of Act 2. Is that right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, you're right.

You're right. It's not till later. But I think there's just this lovely dynamic between these two characters. And I actually don't think we see a lot of yeah this um version of ron with ben yeah nick and i were talking about it recently actually that we didn't get a ton of just ron and ben and maybe that's good because the few times we do kind of get paired off and have scenes together, Special has a real kind of unique flavor to it just because those two characters are so defined and so different.

But yeah, I love this scene, and I love the episode that Nick directed, I believe, where we go to the winery and get drunk and then end up like on a walkabout with Sam Elliott. Yeah. I think that's season six, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, anytime there's a scene with Offerman,

it's just a treat. And I love in that scene, when you guys do the shot of Lagavulin, your reaction as an actor is just brilliant. I mean, it's just so funny. Such a great response. Some comes out, right? Yeah. And re-watching West Wing recently, I wonder if I nipped that from Brad Whitford from when he takes a sip of old coffee and it just dribbles out of his mouth. Rather than spitting it out, you just open your mouth and let it fall out. Yes. Which is what I did. I wonder if that's where I got it. So great though. It's so great.

But one of the scenes when we're at JJ's and I noticed this in the rewatch, you actually take a bite of the pancakes. Yeah, I noticed that too. That is such a risky thing to do. I know. As an actor. I know, it really is. And it really stood out to me because you don't know how many takes you're going to do.

You could walk in there super hungry and by take 10, you're miserable. I know, it's a dumb thing to do, but I always appreciate it when I see people actually eating on camera. I know. It's a dumb thing to do, but I always appreciate it when I see people actually eating on camera. I do too. Because I catch fake eating all the time. I'm like, oh, come on. They're messing with their knife and fork. Yeah. No, I totally agree. Or you see them working with the food for a while and then they take the bite and it's like a piece of lettuce.

Exactly. Yes. I hate that. It takes me out. It takes me out. it takes me out it does me too and by and large people probably don't know this but um i i would like to think i was aware of where the camera was so took a big bite because i figured it would be on camera but i have no idea maybe i was starving but the good thing about parks is we were never shooting i, it's not like we did traditional coverage. So I may have only needed to take that bite like eight times or so. I don't know. I don't know. Right, who knows?

But it's risky. It really is risky. It wasn't a nibble. It was a bite. It was a big bite. Yeah. It's funny to think of like a succession episode where like the entire 60 minutes

is like around a dinner table. I know. And how many fake bites must like around a dinner table. I know. And how many fake bites must have happened in that moment. I know. And I think also about how Chris Pratt, our friend before Star-Lord version of Chris Pratt began, would just happily eat. Oh, yeah.

I was going to say that Pratt would just eat full on and just push it all down and have no problem with it. Yes. When we were eating ribs at the dinosaur restaurant, the... Jurassic Fork. Jurassic Fork. So we're eating the ribs during the scene and everyone's being careful because, you know, you don't know what you're going to end up eating.

And then we break for lunch. He eats a full lunch and he comes back and he goes right back at those ribs. He was so impressive. Of course. So impressive. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So, in our synopsis, with the polls closed, Leslie trails Bobby Newport by 21 points, leading

to the NOPE campaign demanding a recount. While the team waits for the recount numbers to come back, Leslie slips away to think and Ron finds her sitting alone in the city council chambers where the two have a heart-to-heart. Back at the Parks Department, April and Andy

brainstorm new career paths in the wake of April's misdeed until Donna shows up saving the day by revealing she's been backing up all of the Parks files for the past 10 years due to Jerry deleting all the files. all the time. I also want to call out, there's this great moment when the deal that Jen offers Leslie and Ben to stop the recount, where she's like, I'll give you Joe Biden's home phone number.

And it goes from Amy doing this so well, like, there's nothing you could give us. I'll give you Joe Biden's whole point. Now, hang on. That's interesting. Yeah. She loves her Joe Biden. Yeah.

It's so funny. And it's the very, what is it, the next episode, technically, the season premiere of next season that Biden is in.

Am I wrong about that or is that later? That's later. It's later. It's later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Ben going to D.C. is going to trigger. It's later. But Ben going to DC is going to trigger. It's like the catalyst for what will

eventually get us that. But I just love that in front of her soulmate, she's still willing to be like Joe Biden. It doesn't even mention her sexual attraction to him, but Joe Biden cuts through all of the, even her biggest trade. Oh, 100%.

And also his home phone number. What are you going to do with that? But Joe Biden cuts through all of the, even her biggest trade. Oh, 100%. Yeah. And also his home phone number. What are you going to do with that? Like, call his home. Like, it's ridiculous. Of course she will. Yeah, of course she would. Of course she would. Give everything up just to call him at home.

Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. So when Bobby wins at the end of the second act, I think, I don't know if you guys felt this way watching it, but I think you know deep down that things are going to turn around for Leslie, right? Things tend to work out for her. You want things to work out for her.

You want her to win, right? And I, at the end of the day, Leslie is more upset about letting her friends down than she is about not making it onto the city council. I mean, Ron's second scene in the episode is talking to Leslie. He's offering her advice this time. He's the guru of tonight's episode. And Leslie says, for the past six months, my friends have worked so hard. If I lose, I'll never forgive myself. You deserve to win. Don't you love that?

That's so Leslie. You know, she has her ego and all this other stuff, but ultimately, it's about her friends. And she knows what everybody did for her, how hard they worked. Yeah. And letting them down is worse than not winning this election. And that is just so Leslie. I mean, those are the moments that, you know, people are always like, there's so much love in this show. Well, that's the

perfect example of why people love the show. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And we get our episode title in this scene too, right? Where Ron says, that's what you do when you care about someone, you support them. Win, lose, or draw. Yeah, there you go. I didn't even realize that. I love hearing an episode

title. I love hearing it. One other little bit of my new show, when Andy and April are brainstorming jobs, they're also brainstorming places to live. You know, Mike Shore was doing an interview with Vulture back in 2012, around when this episode

aired, and he's talking about how he went to Chris Pratt and said, hey, we have to write some real responses. People are going to care about where April and Andy would want to live. And he said Winterfell was his idea because he was a huge Game of Thrones fan.

But that Pratt came up with the listing of all the places in the song Kokomo. And I guarantee so, so, so many people froze it and read each and every one of them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I would have done that in a heartbeat. Absolutely. Yeah. All so, so, so many people froze it and read each and every one of them. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Because I would have done that in a heartbeat. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. All right, guys, we got to jump back into our synopsis because we're coming to the conclusion of this episode. The recount results are almost in. And when Ben finds Leslie to bring her back to the party, she presents him with a miniature

Washington monument. She tells him he has to take the job in Washington, acknowledging the sacrifices he's made for her and explaining it's time for her to return the favor. And then interrupts them with the actual recount results. And it's still 21 votes, but now they're in Leslie's favor, meaning she's won the election. As the balloons drop and mousetrap plays in the background, Bobby Newport gladly concedes. Really gladly concedes. He is thrilled. Ben gives

Leslie her acceptance speech, admitting he never actually wrote a consistent speech for her. Leslie presents an impassioned acceptance speech imploring the people of Pawnee to embark on a new journey together and proudly

adds her photo to the wall of all male city council members. Meanwhile, because if that wasn't enough, Jerry is relieved his lack of voting didn't cause Leslie to lose the election, but formally accepts Jennifer's job offer

and Ron turns down the assistant city manager position. By the way, we shot all the big speech and us backstage getting all the results with Amy and Rashida and stuff. That was all shot at this hotel over on Vineland. It's just this innocuous... Every time I drive by it, I think of these scenes. every time I drive by it I think of these scenes anyway I drive by it all the time the Beverly Garland

I think it is yeah I think you're right I shouldn't say this but I went to a magic convention there when I was in middle school not the gathering magic I thought you were going to say like two weeks ago no but if they would, I would.

I'm free. I would too, actually. That sounds great. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Let's talk about another sweet, great GIFs Partisan Jobs. Leslie gives Ben a mini Washington monument in a box. It's like this twin to the NOPE 2012 box that kicks off this campaign.

And, you know, a joke has to be made about, I don't know how you got a Washington Monument at midnight on Tuesday. And she's like, I have 50 of them in my office. But talk about that moment. I think it's a very special scene between the two of them. Yeah, I think it is. And it kind of goes to the depth of Mike and the writers of their work. It's sort of a twin moment, like you said, to the earlier moment at the beginning of the campaign, but it's also sort of an answer to him not writing the other speech. I remember when I read that moment,

when he says, I didn't write it, I just thought like, oh my God, like all I have to do is just say the line and it does everything. It's one of those, it's like with great writing, you just don't get in the way of it and it makes you look good. And it's just kind of beautifully rendered. But I think it's, it just adds a lot of depth and texture to to the relationship between these two and it's impossible not to not to root for them and and be on their side it's it's really lovely and it was so much fun uh doing all this stuff with amy we we really loved doing these scenes together or at least i did i'm just kidding we had a great time great time. Amy's been in therapy over it for years, but as long as you enjoyed it, that's all

that matters. It goes back to what you were saying, that you and Amy from the first scene at the bar, that first dual scene, that there was this chemistry. There's chemistry between people you can't fake. We felt it when we were watching Chris and Aubrey in

Hunting Trip when they're stuck in the office. And you're like, those two characters make sense together. Those two actors make sense together to execute that. And it just speaks more to what we're talking about. You were meant to be part of this world. And that proposal scene at the house

will go down as one of the all-time great scenes. Everything about that scene worked. Everybody was rooting for you guys. And your performances, of course, were perfection. Yeah, they're just the perfect couple. So fun. It was all so fun.

All right. We have one last bit of a synopsis. Synopsis, excuse me. In the tag, as the party winds down, a drunk Anne tells an even drunker Tom that she wants to get back together and the two agree to move in together. Because that's going to last long. Yeah, yeah.

Meanwhile, April, realizing that most of Andy's dream jobs were related to law enforcement, suggests he becomes a police officer. The long night draws to a close when Leslie rallies the troops for victory waffles at JJ's diner. Jim, here's Jerry getting sold out at the very end. Guys, it's so funny. Ron sells Jerry out. It's like, it's just, the episode's over. We don't need any more.

We've done all the jokes. Everything's good. Ron says Jerry forgot to vote. Proudly. He's very proud to say it. Leslie, damn it, Jerry. The very last line of the very last episode of the fourth season is, damn it, Jerry. Yeah.

And the fact is, like you said, there was no reason for Ron to do that. No. It meant nothing other than, well, I'm just going to stir it up and I'm going to say, Jerry forgot to vote. And of course, during the seasons, we hear a lot of damning Jerrys,

mostly from Leslie. But Jim, I'm looking at my clock and I see that we've spent so much time and more than an hour talking to Adam and that's because we could talk to Adam forever because... Days and days and days we could do that.

And a good portion of it talking about the West Wing. Yes, yes. Yes. Which just means you and I need to talk about the West Wing more. And magic, apparently.

But, you know, this is Park's family and it's so great to have you here as we recollect on our favorite little show. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thanks you guys. And, and I would love to come back if you're, if there are other episodes,

you would want to have me come and chat about the West wing. 100% please. You kidding? Yeah, no, but thank you. This is such a great show and I appreciate you having me. I really miss you guys and I miss everyone at the show and miss the show. Yeah, me too. It was really nice watching it again, too. It makes me sad, but it's also very, very happy. We loved having you, my friend.

Thank you so, so much. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Greg. Say hi to Naomi and the kids. I will, for sure. All that good stuff. Bye, Adam. Bye, buddy.

Take care. Well, Jim, we did it. A whole season of the show. Another season I will, for sure. All that good stuff. Bye, Adam. Bye, buddy. Take care. Well, Jim, we did it. A whole season of the show. Another season. Wow. The end of season four. Amazing. What a way to end with Adam. We're about to jump into season five. We now have Leslie as a city council person.

We have Ben Ben is off to Washington with Aubrey. Well, we don't even know about April. That's a big tease for things to come, right? Oh, that's true. I jumped it. Yeah. But hey, that's just going to tease you, listener, who's listened to this while watching the show for the first time.

And those who've watched it forever, that we have so much to talk about. And I can't wait to jump into season five with you, Jim. Me too. We have fun people. We have fun. And I'm not just paid to say that. No,

I am though. You are paid to say that. Yes, I am paid. By me. Well, everyone listening. Thank you.

Thank you for listening. Please text this episode to your group chat. Start more group chats with people and text them this too. That'd be awesome. You should talk to your friends and family and strangers. Just get their numbers and tell them about the show. Anybody you see. Group strangers together to form

a group chat with them to text them about this episode. Five-star reviews wherever you're listening. Again, a thank you to Adam Scott who was with us, and from all of us here at Parks and Recollection. Goodbye from Pawnee. Bye-bye now. Parks and Recollection is produced by me, Lisa Berm, and engineered by Joanna Samuel.

The podcast is executive produced by Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, and Nick Liao. Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn are our talent bookers, along with assistance from Maddie Ogden. Our theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers, with additional tracks composed by John Danek. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production.