Parks and Recollection - Casting Directors Allison Jones & Ben Harris: Boys' Club (S1E4)

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Come one come all to another picnic in Pawnee! Today Rob Lowe and Alan Yang welcome casting directors Allison Jones and Ben Harris to talk about the fourth episode of Parks and Recreation. In “Boys' Club” Leslie faces an ethical dilemma after trying to bond with some of her male coworkers. Allison and Ben share what it was like to cast this iconic television show while also diving into what it takes to cast any successful sitcom. How many times did Adam Scott have to audition, who almost played Donna, and which cast member is always doing bits? All on today’s episode.Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email: [e-mail] Or leave a 30-Second voicemail at: [phone]

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastians, the pets we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky Then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on little podcast, spread your wings and fly Well, welcome everybody to Parks and Recollection! This is a great episode. I mean, well, first of all, Alan Yang's here, as he is every week. What's up, Rollolo? How you doing?

So I was watching Vikings last night. You know, I'm nothing if not current. Love that intro. Love coming in hot to the pod. I was watching Vikings. Let's go. What do you got, Rob? Well, here's what I got. The co-lead's name is Rolo. That's what I got. Oh, right, right, right. I mean, so I'm wondering did was amy poller the first person to recognize my viking lineage when she named me rollo what if what do we found out she was a secret vikings fan what if we found out she was an ep on vikings she's naming those characters i think somebody should be rollo so that was my uh anyway um but listen enough about the vikings

take us away what do we tell me what we have in store here we not only have a great episode to talk about we have a great guest two guests tonight i know i don't know i said tonight it's daytime and you might be listening to the pod at any time of day no they listen to it at night i i this is definitely sun goes down after dark dark podcast. Yes. We're joined by legendary casting director, Alison Jones. And of course, Ben Harris, who works very closely with her. The casting team behind some of the greatest shows you've ever seen. We'll talk to them about all their amazing shows, but mostly about this one. Because that's what the show's about.

Yay. We're a new podcast. Let's not forget, we're the new kids on the block. So reviews are good. They're very important to us. So please, if you're enjoying this, take a sec, give us a five-star review and tell all of your friends. And also, don't forget to call and ask us a question for a town hall. You could be in the town hall or you could leave your town hall in the review.

If you really want me to see it, put it in the review. Yeah. Episode four of season one, Boys Club, first aired April 30th, 2009. Written by me, Alan Yang, and directed by Michael McCullers. So, yeah, this was a very early episode, but it was fun to watch. Fun to watch. Michael McCullers has some sort of affiliation with wayne's world and mike myers if i'm not am i right about this he worked with

he worked with mike myers and he i think he wrote some of those movies and he he also he also directed baby mama with with amy puller that's right um let me get through this episode synopsis and we can talk to allison and ben how about Yeah, yeah, that's right I was so excited about Michael McCullers All right, so here's the synopsis Leslie and Ann try to integrate themselves Into the city planner's boys club By drinking in the courtyard In an effort to network

As the group runs out of beers Leslie grabs wine from an illegal gift basket And gets into trouble As she tries to accept responsibility For her supposed mistake By making a public apology Leslie draws attention to the park's social media site But she doesn't know and gets into trouble as she tries to accept responsibility for her supposed mistake. By making a public apology, Leslie draws attention to the park's social media site, but she doesn't know that April has posted a video of herself underage drinking.

A disciplinary hearing is called to see what should be done with Leslie. Leslie apologizes to the board and defends April accepting responsibility for the video herself. As the questions from the board continue, Ron angrily defends Leslie. The consequences end up being light, and Leslie is accepted into the boys' club. In a B story, Andy cleans Ann's house while she's at work. Later, Ann arrives home and is pleased with Andy's housework, with Andy telling the documentary crew he expects to get, quote, gently laid later.

And that's the synopsis. So yeah, I like it. Hey, briefer synopsis today i like it um it's funny the ethics violation in this in this episode i mean it's always the comedy of the mundane with parkson rec and the small you know the comedy isn't how small it is but but then this ethics violation is very very almost quaint considering to where the the story stakes ended up going it's so small i mean and in the beginning we wanted it to be small, right? I think the overall directive from the showrunners from Mike and Greg was, yeah, it could be funny if she's

really excited and really worked up and really nervous and scared about smaller things. So the smaller, the better in some ways. So this one is like a gift basket of wine and cheese. And then meanwhile, cut to season three, she's like, we got like we gotta save the town right and then by the end it's like i'm president yes essentially but in season one it it but season one was like let's talk about this gift basket and and that was you know that's where the comedy kind of changed right she she is still a little bit delusional in this one it's kind of the first season version of leslie but but you start to see you do see the seeds of relationships building. You see Leslie and Ron. You see that building and Ron sticking his neck out for Leslie, even though

he denies it to camera. Then you see Andy developing. He's not just a leech in this one. He's not just a schlub. He's trying to clean himself up for Ann. You see the hints of the show developing. As we move into five and six, six, especially for the season, you'll see the seeds of season two. But I was happy with how this episode turned out. You know, I think when we looked back on this season and looked at the episodes, it was like, oh, you know, you see it sort of pace up a little bit. It's a little bit more energetic and a little happier. So I feel like we got there and it was a it was i was i was i was glad to get an episode this season for sure and i'll tell you what is interesting in this we've talked a lot about it and it's it's legendary in the comedy world and the tv

development world um the adjusting of leslie's character and this is really one where you see she she screws up and is sort of scrambling to rise above it and to succeed and you guys pivot off of that very quickly after these few episodes but this is a perfect episode to look at in terms of you didn't you don't know what you don't know and you didn't really realize that amy poehler is better when she's good at her job. Yeah. Yeah. She is a high status person who should play a high status character. She's always scoring in person. And so she's a score in the show. And I think we learned that pretty quickly. And I think that ended up helping the show. She's ambitious for the team and for the good of Pawnee and not for herself, which is also really, really helpful. But yeah, let's talk to Allison and Ben.

They're here. Let's not waste their precious time. They've got casting to do. They've got a million shows. They have Netflix shows, HBO shows, so much stuff to do. How are you guys? Welcome to the show. Thank you, Alan.

We're good. Thanks for having us. Well, so for people who don't understand the way the business works, casting directors are the keys to the kingdom. They really are. I don't know if you're going to like, I'm curious to know what you think about this, my assessment of what you guys do. But what you guys do is extraordinary because they are tasked with casting, finding the actors for any particular project. I mean, you guys will remember the great Janet Hershenson.

She's totally responsible for my career. And, you know, most actors who make it can look back at a casting director and say, but for them, I, however you want to look at it, some of the great actors of our time, not just in comedy, but it seems like for me, more in comedy than not. Is that fair? Yes, definitely more in comedy than not. Very quickly, just so people have some background in Allison so she doesn't have to brag. Besides Parks and Rec, also The Office, also Veep, also seemingly every Judd Apatow movie. We've got Four-Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up, Borat, Talladega Nights, every movie, Bridesmaids. Yeah, every movie, and the pilot for Brooklyn Nine-Nine, it just keeps going. So almost every comedy you enjoyed the last 20 years or whatever, Allison has a hand in it. Master of None, by the way, a show we worked on together.

It's just phenomenal to have you here. It's phenomenal to have you guys both. Thank you so much. What do you guys look for when you're just... Is it just a taste thing? Is it just who catches your eye? How do they... Is it all just intangible?

Is there any tricks to the trade? If I were to become a casting person, I'm trying to get in the business tomorrow. What do I do? What do I look for in people? I don't think you can teach it. I mean, I, I, um, started doing comedy. It was, you know, my first show was Benson and Family Ties, which were half hour comedy. And in those, you got pigeonholed like crazy. So actors did too, right, Rob? You could only do one thing. God forbid you could ever jump to a feature film.

That's right. So that's what I owe to Judd Apatow for hiring me as a 40-year-old virgin. But anyway, thank you, Judd. So I learned comedy actors, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I learned stand-ups. I would go to stand blah, blah, blah, blah. I think, and I learned standups. I would go to standup comedy store every single night. And for some reason I started plugging standups into all these roles and many

good ones I've had to fire. And I won't say who those are, but many now very famous standups who had fun, but, um, I don't know for me, that for me, it's who makes me laugh.

And so I guess it's the taste of the time. Yeah, I think it's knowing the market, right? Knowing who's out there and who's basically just who's the, because we work so specifically or most of the time in comedy, who's the funniest guy or gal out there, right? And being able to know that this person is maybe, maybe they aren't super polished in their auditioning. Right. Lots of times there's people that crack us up and we've seen them do a sketch here or catch a set somewhere.

And it is a little bit intangible and that you just go, this guy or gal makes me laugh. And but and then giving them a shot and bringing them in and half the time they are terrible at auditioning right terrible and it and and it takes bringing them back over and over and and hopefully you have a producer that you know maybe will catch a set or you know watch a demo link or something right where they get to and can see the bigger picture and give them a shot, like, to your credit, where you're going, send me your 12 funniest people. That's what matters. Right, many creators and showrunners,

lots of them aren't as open-minded, right, or don't have as much faith or don't want to write to someone's voice as much as you and Mike and all those guys do. Yeah. I also love that you guys put a priority on a couple of things. One is someone who's unique, someone who you haven't seen before. I mean, we talk about that with the writing and direction of a show, right?

Is we want to put something out there that's not out there, right? What's not in the marketplace? What's something they can't find on their million streaming services? What's something new and fresh and original? Even if like you're saying, this person might not be super polished or a super experienced actor, that can be exciting. And the second thing I think, I don't want to speak for you, but it feels like when you're making a show, you want the right balance, right? It's like making a stew. It's like building this recipe and you want this balance of energies and it really matters. Like, okay, if your lead's polar, then who do you want as a, as a Yang to hurry in, right? Oh, you have Offerman for, you know,

it's just like this balance of energies and then you build out the cast. That's so exciting, man. I really, and, and, and it's, and you're right. It ultimately is judgment and taste. Like when we call you guys, it's like, yeah, what do you think? It comes down to two, three people for a part. Man, you can agonize. I've agonized in the past. It's really tricky, man. It's really tricky. Mike is good about that, too.

He's extremely thoughtful on who he chooses to cast. Yes, I have to make a chart. Make a chart and figure out. No, nothing like Greg Daniels who will make a graph. He made a graph when we were casting him. Pilot of the office. A graph. What does a casting graph look like?

I'm fascinated. I love this. He had, like, qualities, like, chief qualities on one side. He probably had authenticity to the – Greg would have to probably contradict me, but he had qualities on one side and i think probably accuracy to the english cast on another side and somehow graphed it and we didn't want we were like you got to be kidding me nothing to do with the graph on casting that's but he had a casting graph yeah well it worked for that show it went 150 episodes so it worked for that show was remarkable casting on that show. But forget about that show. This is this show.

Yes, sir. So just speaking about this episode and the first season in general, I don't know if we've talked about this before, but we actually wrote seven episodes this first year. And as you guys know, there were only six episodes that aired. And so we wrote seven just to have the luxury of literally throwing one out. I mean, that that's, that's what a limited episode one did for us. So we all like a bunch of the writers got to write drafts. I felt very fortunate to get an episode that first year. Cause I was a staff

writer. I was a first year writer. Um, and the, the episode we ended up throwing out was one that Mike wrote himself, which was very wild. I mean, it wasn't due to the quality of the script. It was just how the pieces fit together, but he wrote an episode, I believe, called Spraying for Rats, which the premise was they spray the pit for vermin, essentially,

and they end up accidentally spraying an unhoused person who's living there. And there was a whole other storyline where they had to add someone else to the pit committee and and they met with an amazing stand-up comedian uh cat williams i believe to to play a part in the show and he was so funny but we just ended up not doing that episode so that storyline just kind of died on the vine where was the pit we always wanted to know the pit was in uh like studio city area right yeah greg do you remember the cross streets it was like hazeltine and collins i believe wow it was on collins yeah it was in sherman oaks oh sherman oaks okay yeah

and and uh a truly an eyesore really uh a life imitating art because you drove by like this is horrible this is like horrendous and we'd have to go there all the time but you uh chris not chris i almost called you chris trager rob rob was like hey Chris Traeger, did you ever go to the pit? You did, right? Yeah, all the time, right? The pit was filled in by the time I got there. It was the lot, and the first time I went there was Freddy's Spaghetti. That's your second episode.

That's your second episode. It's my second episode, and I remember it like it was yesterday. But yeah, it had grass. It was very pretty by the time I got there. It was still so hot, always there. Yeah, I remember writing this episode. It was obviously over 12 years ago, something like that now.

But I was kind of sweating bullets because this was my first episode for the show and first real scripted episodes for television I'd written for South Park, but they don't let you write episodes there. Trey Parker and Matt Stone write all the episodes. So I wrote this episode in a public library because I had nowhere to write it.

So I went to the library and just sat at this public area and remember writing it and trying to come up with the cold open and stuff. And yeah, pretty nerve wracking. But the great thing always on this show that that that mike and and greg were super super encouraging and also by the way by this time we had rewritten the first two episodes we rewrote the pilot in the second episode second episode uh we rewrote for like 13 weeks the third episode we wrote for like

eight weeks and then by the time it came to this episode which was the fourth episode uh we ran out of time and had to shoot in like three days or something so we're like oh let's look at it and like we're at it we gotta shoot it on monday so we'll table read it quickly and then see what happens so uh but but yeah i feel like you can see that the the seeds of of upcoming stuff like pratt is kind of fun and pratt by the way does more stuff in this episode more similar to his audition than he did as the initial conception of the character.

This is what his power steered us towards, right? Completely did, yeah. Were you guys aware of Pratt before? Had he read for you guys before? So he was in the world. He was a funny guy

that you guys knew, right? What you forget is he was kind of a teen idol in a weird way because he had been on Everwood. People loved him on everwood yeah people loved him on everwood yeah create a kooky character on the oc right he was definitely doing the thing and you know um i've said this on another podcast but um i remember when i came on to the show and

you know with this group of insane wonderfully talented really really different types of actors um i i told my agents and managers there's one though on this that i think might be if he ever gets a shot the biggest movie star in the world and my agents to this day say you called it and that was proud yeah because he had every club in the bag and i remember when he got, I think it was Moneyball. He was auditioning for Moneyball. I was like, yeah, if you need to make the decision whether you want to be fat funny guy, third guy through the door, or whether you want it all. Because you can have it. And the rest is history.

Yeah, he mostly didn't get comedy stuff we brought him in on right ben yeah we brought him in on paul he came in late to his paul audition yeah well we should we should talk about parks a little bit because this is a parks podcast but i wanted to ask you guys specifically this episode boys club first of all you know again very early in the run it originally was called ethicsics Violation. I remember it because I had to write the draft. So I remember the script. And there were a couple of fun things about it that you guys were involved in.

I mean, you know, one of them is that Aubrey Plaza's character, April Ludgate, is pretty prominent in this episode. This was one of her first kind of prominent episodes. And it was so early on in the run that her name in the script was just Aubrey. I remember writing it and she didn't have a character name yet. So she was just called Aubrey, and I think Donna was named Paris. Mark was named Josh at some point. Anyway, you guys were instrumental, I believe, in casting Aubrey Plaza. Is that right?

Yeah. What had you done? UCB stuff and some videos? UCB in New York. And Ben, who sent her to us? It must have been Three three arts or something it must have been Dave Becky or somebody one of these great comedy managers or somebody yeah yeah and that was at the time it took about 10 years for the comedy world to figure out that improv and

sketch people were actually the funniest people you could possibly hire and that they could improv and be funnier than with all due respect alan most things comedy people could write when i started it was verboten rob to say any word that wasn't written you couldn't come in for an audition if you went off that line you didn't know what you were doing so you could not improvise i recall the first person who improvised an audition was the great amy sedaris and it was like wow but it was funnier and chris thompson at the time said i like that girl she's funny she got the part um anyway so aubrey came in it was like no brainer we were casting scott pilgrim at the time and we had so we sent her first to mike

shore i believe to say this is somebody Mike, because Mike was willing to meet people and write them parts. So we sent her to Mike Shore first, and he instantly said, okay, we got to write a part for this woman because she's obviously so interesting. And then I think in the same week, she got Scott Pilgrim and Funny People because she was so special. So that's the story of Aubrey Plaza and she she's not different now than she was that first day it's always a bit it's that's true Aubrey texted me today and it was it's a bit right it's like it's always a bit right it's always like I'm gonna ruin your life all that kind of stuff like that kind of stuff but yeah but but you know Allison brings up a great point which is um you know just kind of implying and sort of truthfully that this is how

influential and impactful she can be. When you're creating a show and you're writing a show, yes, you have characters in mind and you want to build this world. But oftentimes, especially in comedy, you want to write towards the actor. And so you just want to meet interesting, funny people you haven't seen before. And so what we did on master none we just said allison send us your dozen favorite people like literally that general and and and we just want to sit down and meet with them and the very first person we met with was lena waithe and she was mostly a writer she had done a little performing and she came in wearing a chicago bulls jersey and septemberlands and we just me and aziz just chatted with her and after meeting all these

people and writing scripts and all the stuff we're like we just feel like there's something interesting about lena we're just gonna write a character for her and and and as this as the show you know progressed we just wrote more and more for her because there was something undeniable about her so that's how that's how cool allison's job and ben's job is when when they're able to send people to show runners and and kind of get their foot in the door, you know? And I had seen her just on a YouTube thing. So it was, um, that's phenomenal, which has also changed. The certainly has changed the casting business, at least in comedy. There's a little bit more to sort through.

It used to be, we'd have to go to the comedy store every night to see everybody. But anyway, um, I think Lena has been working since then, Alan. I'm not sure. Yeah. I don't know what happened to her. I like I'm not sure. She's not busy enough. She's not busy enough. But yeah, it's really fun. And talk to us a little bit about, you know, some of the other actors in the show. I mean, I know some of them were known, I know. But but some of the other actors, you know, how'd they come about? I know Offerman, I think, sure, had his mind set on for some time. But was it just kind of auditions? A lot of them, you know.

Yeah. And Offerman wasn't. He wasn't set on Offerman. We read a lot of people. Oh, right, right. That's right, right. Sorry, I misremember because he had his name on a Post-it. But we did read a lot of people.

I remember that. Yeah, he read for Josh first and wasn't really right for that and then they came over the wrong character and that was obviously for nick but ben you remember the chris pratt situation that was i think still one of the best auditions i've ever seen very much so yeah it was like nothing we'd ever seen right he just improvised he was playing i think one of the grand theft autos i think was his entire audition and yeah as he's saying all sorts of inappropriate things that we probably shouldn't say on here but uh yeah still sticks out in my mind it's one of the best auditions i've ever seen yeah rashida was attached to the show she was the one who was pretty much uh slammed

on yeah and as he came in a bit early too aziz was a bit early in the process but but yeah but chris pratt and turning him from a guest star into a regular cast is i mean that's partly due the auditioning right i mean he'd been on everwood and the oc but man those tapes like i remember like we were fortunate enough as the writers to watch some of these tapes just to just to weigh in and and i still remember the pratt i mean he was he did it in in mike's office yeah it was in Mike's office. Yes, it was. That's when he did the improv, which was crazy funny.

Certainly, you guys definitely helped out with the Jerry and Donna stuff. Weren't there some interesting Donna and Jerry auditions that were not like were Different from the conceptions that ended up in the show Completely well and Mike was Also you guys were all open to let's just get Some interesting people because the first time That ever happened was in the office where people

In the background Phyllis you know our our wonderful Phyllis Yes turned out To be series regulars that was a whole new Thing for us so in park and rec then they said let's maybe have a couple people who might stick around every episode and you know actors were like i don't know if we want to do this it's only one line in the pilot and then we had to sell it like well you might stick around like in the office in the what you know so it was

um you know agents would fight back at it anyway, it was another thing where you guys just said, bring in some funny people who seem like they'd work at a parks and recreation department. And we did. And those two are almost my favorite in the whole show. I mean, Donna really comes into her own. In this episode, her hair is so different. I'm like, Donna, what are you doing? You look so different. Is it true that Ellie red what are you doing like you look so different

is it is it true that ellie kemper auditioned for donna at one point that would have been different she did in fact right ben yeah a slightly different character with ellie kemper in the role but uh slightly different yeah but man they ended up killing it the guys you and i remember jim auditioned for ron swanson right is that yeah jim o'hara yeah octavia spencer uh auditioned for for donna jesus what that's right and and i believe i believe she got really far because i remember watching octavia spencer's audition and we were like this is sensational like we we love both of them and we're like you know red is pretty comedy forward and really funny we're gonna cast red but again i didn't make that make that decision. And I believe Octavia Spencer was still doing some comedy stuff. She did a pilot for Dan Gore or something.

I think that's something the year after or something. But anyway. She was in the groundlings, yeah. Loaded stocked pool for the Donna auditions. That's a difficult decision to make. And I think like Ike Barinholtz for Andy. Oh, this is fascinating. Oh, Mark Duplass, I remember

read. Yeah, Duplass was in the mix. Nick Thune was in the mix for Andy, I think. Yeah, Bobby Lee. Bobby Lee read for Ron. Yeah. This is my favorite stuff. Joel McHale. Joel McHale. Didn't Adam Scott read

at some point? Yeah. We ended up guessingator in the show. Yeah. Rob Corddry, Will Sasso, all these guys. Fantastic. And then I have here Aubrey for Aubrey. Aubrey for Aubrey. Yeah, we named the character Aubrey.

It was actually Diana McGonigal. Her manager was an agent at CA at the time, and she was great. And she sent us Aub Audrey and quite a few other people and some of those guys were Ron some of them were for the Josh character that would end up being Mark and some of them for for Andy but yeah I mean and then and then we were also it was kind of a mixing and magic yeah so Alan how were you in seeing all these tapes as a as a baby staff writer I had some trust I had some trust No, they were actually open to some of this stuff. And also, I want to credit them for bringing some of us into the process, not just with casting, but with being on set, being in post, helping to edit, working with all of these different facets of production. So I felt like when I was 30 or whatever, getting on to my next step and doing our own show, Mina Z's, man, I felt way more equipped than someone who had just been in a writer's room.

Well, yeah. Do you remember the other thing that's changed so much is you would always get actors who were like not interested in television? Always. Always. And now you know what it is? It's not interested in network television. Yes, exactly. You notice that? TV ultimately became the new film

because I was at the bottom of the barrel casting sitcom. It was like NITV and definitely NI sitcom. And then now it's no network TV, but now it's the best stuff. I mean, I don't know what else to say. Yeah. Can you imagine like, I don't want to do Fleabag.

I don't want to do On Me Destroy You. Are you kidding? It's the best shit out there it's like incredible wonderful wonderful um transformation into the respect and you're not called a tv actor anymore or a film actor right rob you would call the tv actor film actor no we got we got meryl streep doing tv yeah yeah everyone everyone yeah the thing about when you meet somebody who's different and special you you really never forget them but with that said who do you think is the most unforgettable of that came across you guys early on oh gosh i've been doing it a lot longer than ben has um

so i would say in the very early for example family ties benson. I know. Wow. Family ties, golden girls. I love that. That's phenomenal. I mean, I was the casting assistant on golden girls and I would say. So you,

so room, a client, you said room, a client, a hand B B Arthur was probably like already involved. Cause she was a huge TV star, right? No,

it was B Arthur versus Elaine stretch. Get out. Wait, I'm already, I'm so in. This is blowing my mind. This is another podcast. There's an alternate universe. This is a multiverse where Elaine Stritch plays the Dorothy part.

She tested at the network in yellow, tip to toe. She was yellow, tip to toe. Bea Arthur didn't have to test, but Bea got the part because of Susan Harris's connection to Maude. But no, no, no, it was not, she was not involved from the get-go, and Rue and Betty both had to test as well. But Estelle Getty was pre-reading at the time, and she pre-read for a part, she pre-read for a part in Family Ties, and then like the next week, we pre-read her for Golden Girls. And my boss at the time, Judith Wiener,

called up Tony Thomas and said, I think we have the person. Can we bring her into the network? And we tested her and she got it right away. But no, Bea was not tied into it right away. Greg Levine has an interesting story too about how he got into Park and Rec. Right, Greg?

Allison put the cast together, but Allison is personally responsible for getting me my job into Park and Rec. Right, Greg? Allison put the cast together, but Allison is personally responsible for getting me my job on Parks and Rec. Because I was her and Ben's assistant at the time during the writer's strike. And then after a few months, she was going to do the office spinoff. And I'm like,

I need to be a writer's assistant on this thing. And unbeknownst to me, the office spinoff becomes Parks. But once a week, pretty much, she called Mike and Greg and says, you need to hire my assistant to be a writer's assistant. That's wonderful. It's Aubrey Plaza, Lena Waithe, Greg Levine, making the stars, making the stars. Allison, just out there, out there. Were you involved in the conversations about bringing Adam on to the show?

No, I was not. We had, he came in to read for the pilot and I was, I had left after seven episodes, six episodes, which is now seven, as you say, six episodes and no, I think they had always liked Adam. He almost got the role of Jim on The Office, but there were some dissenters. I was not one of them, but he almost got the role of Jim on The Office.

And everybody remembered him from how cool he was for Jim. And Adam Scott paid his dues too, man. I mean, Jesus. And he was so good. So good. So, you know, tenacity, rightacity right rob tenacity is number one eye of the tiger if you don't if you don't have the eye of the tiger you can forget about it yeah it's tenacity is so important and also people who keep believing in you and keep bringing you in even when a producer will say, I've seen that guy do this part a million times. And it's like, I don't care.

There's nothing wrong with Michael Keaton. That's an amazing thing. If there's any takeaway from this, it's that. But people were cold on him for years, right? Yeah, the people who don't really get that epic talent in comedy is epic talent no matter what and so i don't care if i've seen it before i want to see it again um yeah i always like this business because you actors i think people do have second chances less so more now because they're so labeling everybody

into tier one tier two and tier three but via good writing people have a second chance and somebody who deserves an oscar molly shannon will finally get up there and get an oscar there's a lot of those great people that should never be passed over but they are it's so funny the tier one tier two tier three that's a new one i didn't know that oh oh rob that's really because you you get the european financiers involved oh oh yeah Oh, yeah, yeah. So it's that version of the European financer thing, which is the grossest thing ever. Oh, God. So forever, there was this great thing where if you were like, I'm just going to say it.

Fuck it. I don't care. Because this guy jumped up at the end of my Saturday Night Live and caused a ruckus when I hosted it. And I was like, what are you doing here? This is my show. I just did it. Brendan Fraser. So there were years where Brendan Fraser would get these movies that I wanted to do.

I was like, what the? He did this one great with Ian McKellen. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah. He was in the car with his dad. Yeah. Really, really great Oscar bait movie. And they was like, well, it's the European financing likes him still from The Mummy.

Yeah, exactly. He made The Mummy 15 years ago. Yeah. And still getting movies based on that old credit because of how much money it made in the Arab Emirates. Momentum means nothing to them. Gods and Monsters was the name of the movie. Gods and Monsters, yes. I remember that one scene there in the Cadillirates for whatever momentum means nothing to them and gods and monsters was the name of the movie gods and monsters yes i remember that great movie yeah great movie but um nobody understands momentum or or the value of word of mouth on opening weekend you know nobody understands that so it's really tough every time i have to try to sell uh you

know amy adams she's actually talented and she is really pretty by the way you know and elizabeth banks she is really pretty by the way time out time out so um once again i'm doing a series for less moonvis i don't know if less is involved in this story or not but i do now i'm for the first time putting the pieces together a little bit. But, and I think, I'd like to think I have a good eye for casting when I have the chance to. Some of the people I've cast before they were ever anybody were, you know, Kyle Chandler and David Krumholz and Elizabeth Mitchell and McKenna Grace and, you know, on and on and on. So, um, I cast Amy Adams as my love interest in a show called Dr. Vegas was horrible show. Um, and the, so it's me, Tom Sizemore, right? I gave up some of my salary to get, cause he was coming off that Michael Mann TV series. He had, he, he was crazy, quiet, crazy, but not public crazy yet. And he should have been Gene Hackman. He was crazy, quiet crazy, but not public crazy yet. And he should have been Gene Hackman. He was our Gene Hackman in the waiting.

And Joey Pants. Joey Pantliano, me, Amy Adams. I mean, I still. Fun cast. I plant my flag in that cast today. Yeah. We get picked up and they're like, but you got to fire Amy Adams. Jesus.

I remember that too when she got fired. She doesn't have it, man. She just doesn't have it. I'm telling you. And I had to make the call and I had to call Amy. And I was like, look, they want you. They're willing to offer you six episodes. I said, I'm going to talk to you as Rob Lowe, the actor, and i'm going to talk to you as roblo the actor

and i'm going to talk to roblo the executive producer of this piece roblo the actress tell them to fuck off and don't do it roblo the executive producer i'm begging you to do six episodes she did the six episodes but and then only because she didn't do the full order, she was available for Junebug. Wow. Oh, God. Yeah. And then the last one I'll tell you was I was doing a movie called Frank and Jesse. And it was about the James brothers. It was back in the day when HBO made movies that were smaller.

And I was friends with Liam Neeson had just come off of Broadway doing, I want to say Anna Karenina. And he had Schindler's List in the can. And I was trying to convince our quote unquote financers, Liam Neeson wants to do this movie. He wants to, he will go from Schindler's List with Steven Spielberg to this movie. And I could not. Liam who? Neeson what? And he was Schindler.

He was Schindler. He was Schindler. He's like, who is he in Schindler's List? He's Schindler. What list is this? He made the list, dude. He made the list. He made the list. He made the list.

And we couldn't get him to bite because they hadn't heard of him yet. Oh, it just drives me crazy. Insane. Momentum means nothing. Yeah, it's really counterintuitive because it's A, intuitive. Yeah, it's really counterintuitive because it's A, intuitive. Nobody uses their intuition, and that's what everybody on this podcast has to go by is our intuition, for God's sakes. Yes.

Momentum means nothing. Trust your intuition. Great, great lessons from Allison and Ben. I mean, you guys have ridden it all the way to the top of the casting game. That's how you do it, Ben. That's how you do it, man. That's how you do it. Should we let these two fine folks go and let them go back to making stars? You've got careers to make and save.

Yeah, there's a lot at stake. Saving lives here, yeah. I just want to say to Rob Lowe, I remember I was a casting assistant, or I was still an associate, and I first saw that movie of the week that you were in. Did Vicki Rosenberg cast you? Yes, she sure did. Shit!

Yes. You were sitting in a Volkswagen or something talking to whoever played your mom. And I just remember thinking, who the hell is that guy? He looks like a god. And he's talented. Really, truly.

Because that must have been one of your first things. It was the first thing I was cast in that they held for me. I didn't realize what a big deal it was. They held for me to go do The Outsiders. Ah, okay.

So they could follow up The Outsiders with it. It was Thursday's Child with Jenna Rollins. Wow. Well, you are amazing. Thank you. Phenomenal. Thank you. And you too.

I remember that. That's amazing. Oh, thanks, you guys. You guys were awesome. Cool. Good luck. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Bye, Allison. Oh, thanks, you guys. You guys were awesome. Good luck. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

Bye, Allison. Bye, Ben. Bye. Bye. Should we do a town hall really quick? Let's do a quick town hall. Thank you to Allison and Ben, but let's wrap it up with a town hall. Where do you want to do this one, Rob?

You know what? We haven't done one. It's kind of obvious. We haven't done one from the pit itself. Wow. Inside the bottom of the pit. Dangerous times down there. It's dusty. It's gross.

It's hot. It's full of trash. In this one, they're throwing a ton of trash. You might fall in. You might break your legs. You might break your neck. That's right. But yeah, let's do it in the pit.

It's a welcoming atmosphere. Hopefully not too many people are attracted so we don't get too many questions. Who would like to rise to the microphone and ask us a question the person at the mic now is steffi from brooklyn and she asks if rob could have portrayed another character on the show who would he have liked to be oh wow here's what why this is hard because if you if you to ask me this about any other show I've been on, it would be really easy. Really easy. I'd like to be President Bartlett on the West Wing. What's amazing about this show is the characters and the voices are so tailored to those actors that you literally, as Chris Chagr would say, can't imagine another actor playing those parts.

They would not exist someone else playing leslie nope does not it's not leslie nope anymore so weird no somebody else playing ron swanson it's not ron swanson tom haverford on and on um i i just i i i think it's a a physical impossibility on this. That said, I wouldn't mind spending some time in animal control because I like animals. There you go. You can join them, man. You can join Harrison Colton, the animal control guys, and that sounds fun. I mean, man, how weird would it be for you to take on those other roles?

You're right. Can you imagine anyone other than Nick playing Ron Swansonanson like he is him man he is him it's like the other thing is like when i when i came on the show there was a notion like oh well then i'm gonna be leslie's love interest and they're like no no that's gonna be adam scott and it was great it wasn't what was expected yeah that must have been fun for you, right? Because it's like, man, I'm not going to do the expected thing. Like, this is actually kind of interesting. I get to do something different and play this comedic role and play an energy you hadn't specifically played before, I thought.

You know, I thought certainly that character was different from anything I'd seen you do. It was. And I loved being, like, super, super nerd. Super nerd, super geek, super enthusiastic. All right. That's a very good answer. Animal control is the answer. I think that's what we got, man.

We want to wrap this one up, Rob? This is it. Thank you all for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe. Hit that subscribe button. I always like to say, tell two of your friends today. Absolutely. But that's

all we got today. So thanks to Producer Greg and Producer Schulte. Goodbye from Pawnee. This episode of Parks and Recollection is produced by Greg Levine and me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Alan Yang for Alan Yang Productions,

Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn are our talent bookers. The theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers, with additional tracks composed by John Danek. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.