Parks and Recollection - Chelsea Peretti: Smallest Park (S4E8)

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

The hilarious Chelsea Peretti (Netflix, Brooklyn Nine-Nine) joins Jim O’Heir (Jerry Gergich himself!) and writer Greg Levine to discuss the best writer’s room snacks, an important moment in Ben and Leslie’s relationship, working with the brilliant Harris Wittels, and much more. It’s Season 4, Episode 8 (directed by the brilliant Nicole Holofcener): “Smallest Park!”Chelsea also discusses her upcoming feature directorial debut, “First Time Female Director" - co-starring and produced by Amy Poehler!It’s another great episode of Parks & Recollection - give it a listen and treat yo' self! Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail] and we might answer it on the show!

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pits we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on little podcast, spread your wings and fly Hey, welcome to Parks and Recollection I'm one of your co-hosts, Jim O'Hare, Gary Larry Jerry, Terry Berry from Parks and Rec And this guy I'm just Greg

Just Greg I'm just Greg. Just Greg. I'm Greg Levine. And, you know, we're here to talk about a really fun episode, a really great episode. And we thought we should have the writer of that great fun episode here with us, Chelsea Peretti. Thank you for joining us today. The one, the only Chelsea Peretti. Hi, Chelsea. Great to see you. Whoa, I'm just seeing your setup. It looks like CNN. Oh, it's the only Chelsea Peretti. Hi, Chelsea. Great to see you.

Whoa, I'm just seeing your setup. It looks like CNN. Oh, it's the real deal. Yeah, we're going to break to some breaking news. Yeah, there you go. Wolf Blitzer is just about to walk in with someone. Yeah, yeah. Chelsea, I was going to tell you this earlier.

I remember the last time I got to see you in person. I was guesting on Brooklyn Nine-Nineine and you guys had just done a table read. And what I hated, and I did two episodes, I had such a great time. Oh my God. But we didn't have any scenes together. I know.

Was that intentional, Chelsea? My question was, did you purposely do that? Was that intentional on your part, Chelsea, just to avoid him? I asked them to respect the restraining order. Yeah, no, it just, it was a big cast, you know. You know, Parks and Rec was the same thing.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I experienced the whole big cast thing as a writer, and then I experienced it as an actor. There's a deep bench in the whole Parks and Rec Brooklyn Nine-Nine universes. Oh, hell yeah. But what I love when I saw you is, you know, I, before Parks, I'd done, you know, a lot of different things and all that stuff. Okay. But Parks, no, no, no.

I'm just saying Parks. All right. No, no. Anyway, you might want to see my Emmy that I have in my house. Anyway, which I do. But it's a daytime. That's a different topic. No, but seriously, whenever I see any Parks-related people, it just warms my heart.

Because it was such a special seven years. And some people came and went. And it just, I don't know. So it was like, there's Chelsea. And it just meant a lot to me to see. It's so weird how intense these entertainment experiences are. And then they feel like they'll never fucking end. And then all of a sudden, it's like you're these entertainment experiences are. And then they feel like they'll never fucking end. And then all of a sudden it's like, you're looking back at it.

Like that happened. I mean, you know, in the writer's room, Greg, I mean, you remember we had three meals a day together. We had breakfast, lunch and dinner. And I was literally like, this is insane. I didn't do this with my family. Yeah. There were about four years of my life where I just didn't buy groceries because I was, yeah, I had 15 meals a week with the same people. I didn't need to have food in my house because on the weekend I wanted to get the hell out and see other people. And then my grocery bill shot up the moment the parks ended, the moment you leave a writer's room. But also, I was looking at some old files to jog my memory and get ready for our conversation. And we did this thing, the season that you were there, the seasons you were there called the Season 4 Awards.

And we talked and we just voted on different topics. Do you have this? I have it up here and we'll call it out a few times. I'll warn you now, he has everything. Because you mentioned it and we should obviously talk about the episode you're here. But we talked about our favorite restaurant that we'd ordered from, the worst. Oh my God, I do want to hear all of this

because honestly, like the thing I miss the most about parks was all the crazy debates and tangents. And, you know, it was such a room full of smart people, you know? No, I would say you were talking about foods and things. We had to vote on the best individual snack you would have, which dried mango, seaweed, and Ayesha Muharra's peanut butter toast were the top three.

Interesting. And who would make the most appealing food. They come back from the kitchen, and Ayesha was there there again and Dan Gore. Wow, this is offensive. But one of the great ones was loudest open mouth chewing was a thing. This is when we were just like, what are we talking about?

We did the fun stuff and now we're going to get some of the darker things. I know we have to get to this episode because it's so great. Who won loudest open mouth chewing? Obviously you have to talk about this. You can't tee that up. I mean, they're great. Who won loudest open mouth chewing? Obviously, you have to talk about this. You can't tee that up. I mean, they're great. I love them all.

I love every person I'm about to say, but Dan Gore eating apples and Alan Yang eating dry granola. Not good, huh? Yeah, that's vile. Yeah. But Jim, back to you, boss. Now that is the nitty-gritty

you want behind the scenes people you're getting behind the scenes yeah yeah and i know we'll get into this episode but chelsea how did you come to parks how did that happen i want to just say one thing back to the food we're not going to talk about anything other than this food. Yes. Dried mango winning is the saddest thing I've ever heard. Dried mango as a top three snack. Yeah. I mean, that's a travesty right there. Yeah, it's a problem. Dried seaweed became a thing.

Everybody was eating those packets of seaweed. I'm like, that's vile. I mean, all three of those snacks are actually, it feels like, you know, it would be like the favorite snacks. Oh my God, that's vile. I mean, all three of those snacks are actually it feels like it would be like the favorite snacks. Oh my God, now I can't remember. What was the competing town that everyone hated?

Oh, in Eagleton. Eagleton. Yeah, it feels like that would be an Eagleton top three snacks. Right. Healthy, slightly healthy, slightly interesting and international, like these types of foods. And now we're like, here we'd be like, no, it's obviously waffles and sugar and all these things. Yeah. Just anything. Anyway, Jim, how did it come about? Honestly, I cannot remember.

And this is the thing. I mean, I looked at when I wrote this script, it was 2011, right? So, I mean, that's so long ago now. It's kind of crazy. I also was rereading. I reread my draft and then I reread the shooting draft and I watched the episode because I can't even remember like which jokes I was super into. You know, it's all kind of flown the coop. I know Aziz encouraged me to, I want to say apply. Do you apply for a writing job? Submit. Submit. Yeah. You'd have your reps or you'd yeah. Submit. And I remember coming in and meeting with Mike, I believe, or maybe both Mike and Dan, I can't remember now and meeting the writers, but I can't remember exactly, you know,

the exact logistics of how it came about. I remember Aziz was doing a show at the Orpheum and you opened for him. Do you remember doing that? Killed. You killed. And then Aziz comes on and I don't know half the shit he's talking about because he, I'm not his demographic.

He's Jay-Z this and Beyonce this but I remember the people around me. You know, those very obscure people. No, but I mean, I'm an old SOB. You know, I know who they are, but he's referencing being at this party and this rapper.

And it's just, you know, he didn't mention Barry Manilow. He didn't mention Air Supply. I mean, what am I supposed to do with that? But Chelsea opened for him and I just was blown away because I didn't know your stand-up, and it was amazing. And I do all Barry Manilow jokes, so I thought like that.

You have a 45 on Manilow. She ends with, everybody, we made it through the rain. And then the place goes wild, and that's how she, yeah, it was amazing. Well, listen, as people can tell, we could talk to Chelsea about anything forever. We should also talk to, why are we here? Let's talk about the episode we're here for, which is Chelsea's episode. It's season four, episode eight. It's called Smallest Park, written by our guest, our friend, Chelsea Peretti, and directed by, can you believe it, Nicole Holofcener.

by, can you believe it, Nicole Holofcener. Honestly, I was just like, wow. I was young and dumb because I'm like, I should have been asking her 5,000 questions. I guess it's probably good that I didn't. I was probably so stressed about the script and the shooting process and stuff.

But I'm like, that's so cool that I got paired with her. She'd come back to do about four to six episodes of Parks, so it may be good that you didn't found her. That I didn't alienate her. And she'd come back to do about four to six episodes of Parks, so it may be good that you didn't found her. That I didn't alienate her. You know, it aired in 2011, as Chelsea talked about,

November 17th, 2011. And Jim, can you tell us all, read a blurb, tell us a blurb. Well, in this, Leslie tries to manipulate a new park project, strictly to extend her working relationship with Ben, and then of course we have Tom and Jerry who work together, which is a new park project strictly to extend her working relationship with Ben. And then, of course, we have Tom and Jerry who work together, which is a new thing, to create a new department logo. And then Ron and April help Andy find the right college course to sign up for.

So, Chelsea, this is your episode. And, you know, I was looking at your time on the show, and I was reminded about you also wind up playing a role on the show. And I was reminded about, you also wind up playing a role on the show. A character named Zelda, a woman at a city council meeting. I think every writer at some point wound up in the show. With always with like a degrading name. That's right. Mike Scully was a person named Pearl.

I think a character. I was going to be a woman. I still have this now. If anyone has a strange name like that, I'm like, this sounds like a name we would have made up on parks. You know? Yeah, yeah.

Like, and the whole reason is because you have to clear the names, you know, for the listener. You have to clear the names to make sure they're not like someone else's name that they have, I guess, some legal right to. Right.

So we have to look to make sure that that name is either since it took place in a fictional town in Indiana, the idea was you can't you have to have at least three or more people have that name in the country or in Indiana, a certain amount. And if zero people have that name,

perfect. But if one or two have that name, they may think you're actually writing it about them. So. Dear God, that's a lot to deal with. So then it's like Snorf the names become like Snorf McFear yeah you have no choice yeah that should be one of them but like the last name Lurpus wound up being

this really weird name we've talked about and that became there were maybe 10 or 12 people in the show wound up being part of the sprawling Lurpus family but yeah Zelda shows up the other one other thing, we have a thing called the notes notes, or kind of call out a few fun moments of the episode that kind of don't maybe fit in or want to talk about right away in the real location of the smallest park in the

episode, smallest park, it's in studio city, so studio city parking lot. And as Leslie describes it, the park is 0.00003 square miles, which is roughly just nine feet by nine feet. It's like I'm six feet tall. So I was thinking like, oh, so it's one and a half me's as a square. That's not a huge park. There's a reason it's the smallest park. That is so silly. It's pretty silly.

To not say nine feet by nine feet is just so silly. You have to stick to miles. Yeah. So in our synopsis, we like putting the word nope in a lot of things. In our synopsis, Chris asks Tom and Jerry to create a new logo for the parks department, which is basically just choosing a new font. But Tom wants to do much more. Andy plans to go back to college, starting with just one class. April suggests Andy take an easy class in order to get a high grade,

so Andy chooses the beginner's guitar course but quickly becomes bored. Leslie and Ben collaborate on a project to establish the smallest park in Indiana, and Ben later tells Leslie he plans to focus on other departments after the park opens because he's continually reminded of their failed romantic relationship when he's around her. Wow, a lot to launch. A lot to launch. Three separate storylines.

You guys are going through all the episodes, right? Yeah. So isn't every episode just so jam-packed? Yeah, especially as we get into these later seasons. We're in season four now. They're dense. There's really not just an A story.

Also, Jim and Reda joining the cast as series regulars. When the show became a real deal. Yeah, when people started... All of a sudden, we had a real show, people. Oh, hair's on? I'm going to pay attention. Exactly. Let's turn on NBC now. Chris and Ben with Adam and Rob showing up. There are four new series regulars in the short order. So it stopped being just an A and B story.

They're A, B, and C stories. Rarely, sometimes we'd collect them all, let's say, at a Halloween party or whatever. But now it's three different things spaced out. What I love about these is it's always fun to have certain characters paired, right? is it's always fun to have certain characters paired, right? So I always love when Ron does a story with Andy and April because he is this like pseudo father figure to them. And so he gets great stuff out of them. And are you guys in the room saying,

like, you know, that perfect example, the three of them, but also at the top, we say, you know, Chris asked Tom and Jerry to create a new logo. Are you guys at some point going, well, we haven't seen Tom and Jerry together. Is that how it comes together? Or how do you guys? I mean, I don't know.

I just remember so many stories like being like, wait, we have so-and-so and so-and-so, you know, like, I don't know if it was, I don't remember if it was super conscientious choice to put you two together or if it was like, oh shit, we have these two characters. I mean, there was so many characters and I feel like it was always like such a scramble to figure out how to keep everyone doing something funny and meaningful.

And also, you also, with so many characters, but you also, you have to, I mean, Leslie is the star of this show, so you also have to make sure there's plenty, which I never understood why did Amy get so many more lines than I did what was that about I think the number on the call sheet

my lawyers are looking into that it was definitely like you know I think I'm sure I think this was true at Brooklyn and I'm pretty sure also at Parks is that scripts were just overwritten and then a lot was cut and so even looking at like the table draft to the shooting draft, it's like, I could see things that got cut and you're like, oh yeah,

it's like just not necessary. You would just cut to this next shot and it all makes sense. You don't need to over explain it. I just made a movie that I wrote and I also wound up doing that. Oh, wait, I can cut. Like, especially when you get closer to shooting, you're like, I don't need these five lines. And then when you're actually shooting and you have people in front of you, I don't need that other line, you know? And then when you're editing, you're like, I don't need that. You know? So it's like, it's definitely, but even in the writing process, having been in the Parks and Rec room, like I was definitely like, do I need this line? And also, do you remember like so much, forgive me if you've talked about this already. But not with you. You know, where we always were trying to cut just even a word, if there's like one word hanging

over to make another line. So like making it, I was doing that. Like, it's so ingrained in me now of like, if I can lose one word and I don't have a dangling word, making one more line. Who cares if that happens, but we spend half an hour sometimes on just bringing something up. Chelsea, I was looking at notes from the episode and early drafts, as you said you were doing. I was reminded that many early pitches of the episode were about the hijinks around building the park, right? That was going to be most of the episode. Would Leslie have to handcuff herself again to something like she did once before 94 meetings? And does the park get stolen somehow? There was a version where there was a maintenance

and sanitation strike and the smallest part quickly filled with trash. Or at one point, it started with Ron filling in a pothole that the city had neglected to fix himself. And then Leslie decides to turn that into a park. Do you remember when the story, when it finally clicked to become this version of Smallest Park that was about less about the building of the park and more about Leslie and Ben? Did that help with your writing? the park and more about Leslie and Ben? Did that help with your writing? Well, I mean, looking at the table to the shooting, I think in even my table draft, maybe this was the Goldilocks, but I think it was the table draft where I was really fixated on miniature things in the park. And like eventually I think most of that was gone. It really was about just a bench and then they later

sit on that bench and it's so romantic, you know, which obviously is much better way to approach the emotional story than a kumquat tree for mice, which was in some version of what I wrote. So, you know, it all comes together how it needs to is what you kind of learn, I think, over the process. Yeah, I mean, the fact that this wound up being Leslie and Ben's romantic story and that the park and the building of it became almost like a representation of this last moment between the two of them before he's saying, I think we need to split, was a really great, I think, choice because it also helped it be really about Leslie and not just like the machinations of what it takes to build a park, which we had done before for two, three seasons. It was honestly so romantic. That lantern, like that lamp and the and the bench and her red jacket. I mean, I remember like taking pictures of it and crying while we were shooting it because it was just so like, it was such a sweet scene and like, it wasn't too saccharine, but you know,

it was like her being like, I am a bulldozer and I'm trying not to be for you, you know, which I think is so much of the work of love is like, here's my shortcomings. I'm aware of it. I'm trying to improve it, you know? Yeah. And also just, you know, being vulnerable, but seeing them together, you know, in that moment, it was just so beautiful. And I just remember sitting there crying. And I have to say, just because I love this, he went in for the two hand kiss. You know what that means? On each side of the face. I find that to be like, so romantic. That's the real deal. I know.

I always wonder if male actors like study old movies to be like, how to be debonair, you know, a lot of pressure. Rob Lowe taught me how to kiss on screen. He truly did. Really? He really did. I might have mentioned this. Where's the comma?

I might have mentioned this in another episode when I guested ages ago. But we were talking one day because, you know, Rob is made out with everybody in Hollywood. And I don't get those roles. It shockingly doesn't happen. And he really, he walked me through how to do it. And so after Parks ended, I did a film called Middleman. And this poor actress, Annie Dudek, ended up being underneath me for three hours one night in the back of a car, you know, with cameras and blah, blah, blah. And the whole time I'm making

out with her, I'm just thinking, okay, then Rob says, let her open her mouth first. Did you actually whisper that in her ear? I would have given her something to be happy about. And she's like, actually, I took the same course from Rob. He told me the same thing. No, but I got to ask Rob if he remembers that. He totally gave me a tutorial because I don't, you know, I'm not getting, you're going to be shocked, Chelsea. I don't get the leading man role.

That's shocking to you, I'm sure. I am shocked. Everyone loves, right? But they don't want to make out. They don't want to make out with Jerry. They love you, George. Yeah, exactly. There is an amazing Rob moment in The Smallest Park where he turns his head and his luxuriant, like, long hair flips in the back.

Yeah, he knows how to show up. He knows the camera. He knows what he's doing. He totally knows what he's doing, yes. Especially if he's instructing you yeah you know speaking of your story uh jim the storyline with tom and jerry you were talking about you know i don't think we'd ever seen the two of them in a real solo no uh or a storyline where they were the bulk of it and so getting to see them work together was so fun and probably

i mean so fun to also pitch on to write write. I love that Jerry thinks, so they're redesigning the Parks and Rec logo. A little fun fact is that the logo that Chris shows Tom and Jerry to get worked on is the actual series logo. So I don't know if that's something saying that we need to change the series logo, NBC, but anyway. I know the new cool logo is kind of tricky because you're like, why isn't this the logo? It's cool. Yeah, really. We should have just changed it. Like, does it ever return?

Oh, no, it was limited edition. Yeah, that's right. So we didn't need to. But I love that Jerry thinks that Comic Sans always screams fun. Fun. Just fun. I mean, it definitely screams something. Also that the R's in Helvetica really pop for him.

Yeah, yeah. It's a big moment. I just imagine Jerry writing a report and it's just all in Comic Sans. Yeah, and just to jump back, because this is Chelsea, I bounce all over because I don't remember what the hell I'm doing here. But at the top, when Chris tells Tom that he's going to be working with Jerry, and he'll be your number two, and Tom's like, no! Okay, he's your number three.

But then Chris says to him, and Donna's also standing there, maybe you can learn something from him. And Tom starts laughing. And then Donna starts laughing hysterically. And then Chris joins in. This is the damn boss. This is Jerry's boss. And he starts laughing. I know, he has a really funny expression too

right before he laughs like he looks like he might be about to like admonish them or something and then he goes right it is like such a it's such a good lesson too in in writing because it's like on the page it doesn't like i'm not saying that it's a lesson of me i don't even know if i i i don't know whether i was responsible for this or not, but just that I was struck by when I was rereading it, like just that it's so simple. Like it's and that's what I think Mike and Dan and and their ensemble shows are so good at. It's once you create the characters well enough, just them all laughing. You're like, yeah, because of who they all are. It's funny, you know, but but on page, it's just like, they all laugh.

But the way that the actors carried that out was just, you know, pretty fun to watch. You know, before we jump to the next section of our story, April and Ron having differing views about what Andy should do in college, we should talk about, that April obviously thinks Andy should take the easy way through and Ron would like to see Andy challenge himself. And I like that Andy's caught in the middle, right? And also Ron admits he might actually like Andy by saying he's one of the people I don't actively root against.

And then there I go getting all sappy. Brilliant. I know, I love that line. It feels like my attitude towards Hollywood, but I also love his reveal that he has buried gold in his yard. That's how he's financing the scholarship is just offhandedly mentioning he has gold in his yard.

In our synopsis, Leslie tries to delay the opening of the park for as long as possible so that she and Ben can keep working together. Now that he's told her he's going to stop, he's going to stop working with the parks department. So she holds a public forum for the park in the hopes that the usually cantankerous Pawnee townspeople will try to slow it down, but they're supportive instead. So her schemes continue when she distributes flyers around town stating the park will hold loud events, which causes the locals to start a protest that she encourages. And meanwhile, in college, Andy is disappointed by another class about lasers. So he randomly chooses intro to women's

studies and loves it. It's so funny that Ron tells the guitar professor that she would make an incredible brunette because clearly it means he's attracted to her, but he won't break his brunettes only rule for her. He's got his rules. And that he seems to fall in love with all the female professors at Andy's college. He loves powerful women. He loves powerful women. is at Andy's college. He loves powerful women. He loves powerful women. He says to the women's studies professor, if that woman weren't so violently opposed to marriage, I think I would propose to her. Well, I read like Catherine McKinnon in high school and I just, you know, she was talking about this idea that's in the script of like, you know, marriage is like a

form of slavery. And so I think that was think that was a satisfying thing to have in there. Let's talk about this storyline more with Leslie and Ben, this idea of her, of him distancing himself from her. Obviously it goes poorly. And Leslie kind of turns into that Leslie that's the source of so much comedy and that she almost is her greatest adversary. If only she could figure,. If only she could figure out

the right solution to this problem. She is the stumbling block. But what's so fun is that she's doing it for a new reason. She's doing it for a reason that she wants to be with this guy she likes. And as I'm watching this, tell me if you remember

this stuff in the room too, that in the third season, when April and Andy get together, there's this idea that they just started dating and they're going to get married and it was weird and crazy and it worked, but the will they won't they in writer's rooms in store and TV shows is to be taken for, for seasons. And so. I honestly, like, it is not my jam. The will they won't they?

Me neither. I'm like, let's get them together and see what the issues are there yeah, I agree what's the issue of like, oh my god so you guys biffed it again I don't know, I know people love it I'm out of step with what people love in some things I'm with you, it makes me crazy

season after season no, no, no, I love how we never did that at parks. But one of the things I love most about this episode is that for the longest time in it, you feel like it's going to be a major split between Leslie and Ben. Like, in fact, that they're going to go to opposite corners, right? That things aren't going to go well. Yeah. Like, even at the beginning of the scene in the park at the end, you know, it seems like they're agreeing like, OK, I'm not going to do this anymore.

It's over. And then she's like, or we could just say, screw it. You know, it's such a lovely moment. And I think my favorite relationship on the show, romantic relationship of the show is Leslie and Ben. There's something very pure about the two of them. They're like, we just like each other. And we tried this thing of not being're like, we just like each other. And we tried this thing of not being together, but we just like each other. His favorite relationship wasn't Rashida

and that Jersey Shore guy. Yeah, yeah. One of the most interesting casting moments in the room was deciding which is the right guy for Rashida to make out with. Very split room about who was the person. Was it Harvest Festival? It was Harvest Festival. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's number two, Chelsea. That's number two. That one, I mean, that was the most heated day, I think, of, that was up there with the pie debate.

Oh my God. That casting of that guy. Wow. There was a lot of wasted time in this room. I mean, that's what I'm learning. There was a lot of wasted time in that room. Can you imagine too, like that actor, he would never know how much debate went into him getting that role. The pie debate. We had a lot of time. I mean, one of the things that I try to tell people about writing is that for the longest time, you're like, am I going to write? Are we going to do this? And you kind of have to let your brain get to that space where you're like, all right, my brain is ready. It's kind of like that soft jello state, ready to write because you don't

know what connections you're going to make. And so there's time in the room that feels like if someone were to look at their studying humanity in a room together, they'd be like, these people are not working right now. But that's actually kind of the writer's room experience that you need to have that time to separate from your brain being on overdrive to think about how do I make this most creatively interesting thing?

And so some of the things were debating pie consistency. We had intense debates about tipping and the merits of American Idol. I'm just looking at the season four writers from awards. Remember also when Harris was saying if he went on stage at an Eric Clapton show or something and played guitar at a stadium, that he would be just as good or something. He had a lot of theories that he could do things with superpowers. Yeah, this is the great Harris Whittles

who had, in our category of the Writers' Room Awards that season of the Harris Whittles best brags, one of them being that he could act as well as any actor, hit a major league pitch, and hit a three-pointer in an NBA game, to which we then took him to the basketball court that was behind the Writers' Room, and we put him as far away as three

three point is and watch time after time not even getting close to the basket um wait you have to send me this entire list of course of course i need to see it well i mean act as good as any actor is just so crazy and so bold and And we just would talk about these things and get so heated. Like it should have just been an immediate dismissal. No, you can't. All right, next.

Right, but I think the fact that you knew it was going to be a fun conversation with him if you pushed it. Right, Mike and Dan Gore, I think the people could really get at him to really just dig in and say, no, this is not my opinion of this thing.

We've talked about this in a previous episode. We have Katie on, Katie Dippled on. But we also talked about making movies in the writer's room. The Date. Do you remember the Date series that you were the lead of? Yes, I recently revisited that with some of the actors in The Date. Dave King, Katie Diffield. Aisha Muhar, Alan Yang.

A lot of people showed up and what would happen is Harris, I think you had a hat on one day, I think that perhaps inspired Harris. And he went into his office and he came out not even a minute later, cracking himself up. He had written a two-page scene called The Date and shot it in one take.

It's you and Dave King and Katie Dippold. And you hear Harris cracking up and giggling throughout it. The camera is shaky. People are forgetting lines. It revolves a reveal at the end of you in an office. And this became one of the great time wasters in the Parks and Rec writers room. And we made four of them. Honestly, you hear that and you go, that's what it's really about.

You know, like, why is it making a TV show that simple? It's like just cracking yourself up with silly friends. Like, you know, that's the core of it all. And how was it? And you just directed a movie, right? I did. And was that same infectious fun of being together, no matter what the storyline is, no matter what the tone is, that's the fun of being together on set with people. Did that come into your set as well? It did. It did. I really wanted it to feel like summer camp, you know, and that's the fun too of a movie. It's like, you know, I think it was about a month of shooting

and you're all kind of in these intense days, but then it's over. Like TV just goes on and on and on, you know? So I think it's easier in some ways to sustain a super fun energy. They were long days and all that, but there was a lot of funny people. Now I was directing it. So there was a lot of times I was oblivious to things. So I was just like running around like a chicken with my head cut off. But, but yeah, it was, it was such a good group of people. And, and we laughed so much. I mean, good food is really important. It's really important. I got these incredible salads. Oh my God. Now I can't remember the name. important. I got these incredible salads. Oh my God. Now I can't remember the name. Sue's salads. No, that's ours. That's what I know. I know. Sue's salads, the hated salad.

I will rip this place apart. No, I'm sorry, Jim. Just to jump around a little, to get back to the story with Leslie and Ben, a big also part of that story that struck me was Leslie and Ann together. And Ann, for the first time, I guess the term would be putting Leslie in her place. Yeah, yeah. Because Leslie is a steamroller. That's who she is. And Ann, who is normally being steamrolled over, shut it down. And it was great. And I just, but not at first, because at first she was still steamrolling her. And I actually wrote this down because Leslie says, Ann, I beg of you, will you just shut your beautiful pie hole? Just sit there and let me stare at you while you silently support me on this game plan. Your quiet support means the world to me, as well as your tacit endorsement of all of my behaviors.

And then she brings her into her chest, like her head into her chest. What a brilliant, oh my God. Just so brilliant, so brilliant. But yeah, and put her right. And that's how that led to her and Ben, her realization of I can't do what I've been doing. If this relationship is going to work, I can't continue what I've been doing if this relationship is going to work. I can't continue to do this.

Jim is alluding to this moment we should talk about in our synopsis, but it's this, as the episode continues, that Tom goes overboard with Chris's project-making plans to remodel existing parks and pitch a reality show. For what it's worth, I'd totally

watch a ranger reality show. I think it sounds pretty awesome I'd totally watch a Ranger reality show. I think it sounds pretty awesome. Yeah, me too. Jerry warns Tom that his outlandish thinking is what doomed his former company, which is just lovely, Jerry. Thank you. Ben disperses the smallest park protesters by refuting all of Leslie's claims and tells Chris that he no longer wants to work with Leslie because she always demands things be done her way. And as Jim mentioned, Anne tells Leslie that Ben is right about her overbearing nature, her steamrolling. And Andy can't afford the registration fee for his class,

so Ron decides to pay for it via a Ron Swanson scholarship. My God, so many things. So much. And we haven't even gotten to the end. But my God, so many things. And we haven't even gotten to the end. Yeah. So that's a great scene with Rashida and Amy where Rashida gets to give it to her for a change.

I love when she goes, Shan. She's like, Shan. But it sounds like Shan. I don't know why that tickled me. Just Shan and hugs her. I mean, hugging someone while you silence them is so funny. Yeah. But yeah, there's also just Adam Scott. I mean, I feel like he's so impressed upon me as a writer.

Just like any line, sometimes a line you're like, oh, shit, that line isn't that good. And it's in the script and it's going. And he makes a line you're like oh shit that line isn't that good and it's in the script and it's going and he makes a line like that work you know it's like he he really has um that gift with that you know just turning any line into something that feels you know good even if it's bad so that's that's always something i aspire to um well i think what's interesting about TV writing is that it is this collaborative nature thing, right? Everybody's writing a thing that has to ultimately sound the same from episode to episode. It's the importance of the showrunner, the head writer, to make sure that every episode really does have that one singular voice. But every episode also has a bit of that writer in them, too.

And so these moments you're calling out, Chelsea, the Shan, the way Ben is. To me, those are some, for me, knowing you, as I do from our time in the writer's room, those are the moments I'm like, oh, that's the voice of Chelsea breaking through, right?

Those are the specific to the writer moments. So I love that when I watch a show, once you get to be, oh, that writer, that's their voice in there. I love that too.

I think also the way Adam, the scene where he basically says to Chris, we are not the dream team. We've got to shut this down. That was so unlike Ben up until this point, I thought. I think they were both crushed, and they knew what had to happen. He knew what had to happen. And just his performance in there, I kept going back and redoing it. It's like a minute scene where he's explaining why we're not good to be together.

He's putting tape around the thing. And then he even snips it. Okay, we're done. He goes, yay! Yeah, he's hurt. He's hurt. Yeah. He's had enough and he's really kind of hit his breaking point where he draws a line in the sand.

And I feel like that's scary. If someone's been tolerating your shit for a long time, all of a sudden they're like, done, snip. And I think it hurt him to do that, but he knew what had to happen. Yeah. Well, love gone wrong. I think it does something to a person. Right. And like, I think about.

Okay, Greg. Okay. I'll save it for the Okay, Greg. Okay. Yeah, wow. I'll save it for the After Dark episode. Here we go, wow. No, but I think about that sometimes with the relationships where the things that used to endear you about the person,

their idiosyncrasies, if things don't go well, if you break up, if you're in a bad place, all of a sudden you look at those things as maybe some of their most annoying things. That's just, that also shows you the power of love. and I'm going to have you know,

that all these little things are changed in your mind when you love that person. And so, yeah, Jim, they clearly are hurt here. They can't be together. They want to be together. I want to highlight Amy's performance

too. I mean, I feel like she's just so... I think some comedic actors aren't able to like to highlight Amy's performance too. I mean, I feel like she's just so, so I think some comedic actors aren't able to be vulnerable exactly. And the way that she kind of speaks to him in that scene was just so she really didn't overdo it and be like trying to be dramatic. It was just really like heartfelt and bare in a way that I thought was. I agree. like heartfelt and bare in a way that I thought was. I agree. At the very end when he says,

yay, and he walks her face. It's just, wow. It's just a gut wrenching moment. And you're right. Amy, of course is brilliant.

So. Well, we, we should get to the end of this episode since we keep talking about the scene that really is so special to us. And the last one to the end. Well, the last of the synopsis is that Tom sees Jerry's first ID card from 1977 and becomes inspired by its font, pitching it as the new logo along with a line of limited edition merchandise

based on it that I realized he had made that day. Everything is well-received by Chris. Anne, meanwhile, privately asked Ben to talk to Leslie to work things out. And Ben meets Leslie in the smallest park that night. The two reluctantly agree to keep their distance from each other. But when Ben prepares to leave, Leslie says she wants him back and doesn't care if it will jeopardize her campaign or her job. The two kiss, that two-handed kiss, ready to face the consequences of their relationship. So I think maybe one or two very important things to call out of this ending is,

one, Jerry's ID shows Gary Gergich. And two R's. And so Jerry, Gary, Larry, Terry, et cetera. I mean, that was the beginning of the end for me. Yeah. Because since then, literally, as Chrisris would say traeger would say literally i hear it every effing day i hear gary who are you and you go do you go by jay it's it was the beginning of the end yeah and all good but it was the beginning of the end and do you guys um was that

in the writer's room was that planned like this is what's going to happen with his name now? Or that just ended up turning into some craziness? I can't remember if that was like something that happened, you know, when they were just creating the card or if that's something that was decided in the room. I think there's certain moments I think that you know is going to be the start of something, right? You don't know where it's going to go, but, you know, we've like, we found a mine here. We found something. It makes sense. His name would be spelled weird. Right, right? You don't know where it's going to go, but you know, we've like, we found a mine here. We found something. It makes sense his name would be spelled weird. And wrong.

And then we learn in the next episode exactly what happened, you know, the whole situation, but crazy, crazy. Well, I think this episode is just super crafty. It's smart in the way that Leslie and Ben decide to come together at the end. You think they're about to break up

perhaps for the whole season. And we're like, actually, we're going to say, screw it. We're together. Just, you know, Andy having this moment in college and Ron showing this soft side again to Andy. It's just a really lovely episode. And it makes

sense built around a little small park, which is just this lovely altruistic thing. I'm going to build a small park that we get to have the number of the smallest park in Pawnee. Well, just the whole font story too. I mean, it's like you guys were a great pair because you're such a great foil to him. Even just personally talking about, you know, going to a standup show and not getting JC references or something. It's like, you know, it is such a funny pairing. And the fact that, you know, basically just by sticking around long enough that your card had a vintage font, that was cool to him. You solved his problem. And I also did love like his talking head where he's like, Oh great. I guess I'm him now now like i have three beautiful kids and he's like miserable you know for most people the perfect scenario

which is you know it's like kind of cool that you as characters call each other into each other's existence into question you know who is who is the lucky one in that duo? It's hard to even really know. Yeah. Oh, well, Jim, that's a great point. And I just have because I do this because I write stuff down and then I just want to get it out. So just to go back to a couple of the storyline at the college, Andy is very confused about how this all works. So he reads something called a crash course. April.

Yeah, but it's not what you think. Laser. He thinks he's going to be zapping lasers and like slamming people. So he reads something called a crash course. April, yeah, but it's not what you think. Lasers. He thinks he's going to be zapping lasers and slamming people. I just, I don't know. So those are moments. And then when he's playing guitar, they realize he's not a beginning guitar player. And he leaves the room and he goes, I was secretly an undercover rock star this whole time. Genius.

With the guitar riff. With the guitar riff. With the guitar riff. It is funny, like college courses, so many of them have like really fun, cool names. But no matter what, like it's not going to be that fun. Right. You know, the college course. There's textbooks and homework. But I saw in my draft that I had, he used a wooden pointer, which I don't think made it in.

But I do think that is so funny. If it's a lasers class and he's using a wooden pointer, which I don't think made it in. But I do think that is so funny. If it's a lasers class and he's using a wooden pointer. Yes, yes. Which Andy says. Yes, it's such a missed opportunity. It is still in, yeah. Yeah. It's such a missed opportunity as a laser performer.

And Andy's so mad. He's like, I'm using a laser pointer. He's teaching lasers. And then just one more final moment I wanted to put in there. When they're trying to raise money so Andy can go to school, and he's doing Kyle's – he's working on Kyle's shoes, which I don't know why Kyle kept going back there. He was always abused at the shoeshine station. He likes it. Yeah, and he's not going to give the money.

And April goes, laugh all you want, Kyle. I already took the money out of your wallet. And then she hands him his wallet. Like, just so great. Yeah, yeah. I already took the money out of your wallet. And then she hands him his wallet. Like, just so great. Yeah, yeah. Oh, what a great moment. Well, then I also want to call out this very special thing, too, where when Leslie, when Anne is showing

her cell phone, her Samsung cell phone, I think Samsung helped us that season, this unbridled texting that Leslie sent him, it typed out, we found this online, it says, lonely, lonely Leslie. That's what you should call me from now on. I'm lonely Leslie. Lonely Leslie loses life love. Me, not you, loser. I mean, you're not a loser. Ben is, but I still miss him. Dang it. Why, Anne? Why, why, why, why? Answer me. When you're

ready. Are you busy? I'm sorry. I'll let you go. Call me when you're free. Whenever that may be like five, like maybe six, I'm free. Just let me know when you're free. God, it's so manic. It's so manic. It's so crazy how many things like you put all that effort in and all you see is just scrolling of Leslie, her name. But someone sat there and wrote that whole thing and was like, mom, I wrote something. It's going to be on TV. And mom paused it, screenshot it and said, look what my kid has done.

Well, final thoughts on the episode, Chelsea, how do you looking back watching it again? You know, I think like with standup, I always, you know,

I've used the word, I've probably already overused it. Cause I hate when people use the same word over and over, but vulnerability, like for me, even in standup, I always, you know, I've used the word, I've probably already overused it because I hate when people use the same word over and over, but vulnerability, like for me, even in standup, there was a point where I was like, I don't want to do this unless there's some silliness and some vulnerability. And I do just love that this episode has this super, you know, emotionally connected moment at the end. That's, that's, that's moving to watch, but also has, you know, lots of great jokes in it. And that's my kind of comedy. I like that combination. That is a great take on the episode. Yeah. And I also, I love on the episode that

pairs new pairings, Tom and Jerry, I love that pairing, you know, sending Ron off to the school with those two crazos. Yeah. It's weird how like Ron and Andy and a woman studies class just makes so much sense. Like, you know, it's not something you, it's not a first thought thing at all,

but then it's like, they both just like really into it. And all, all of Chris's ad libs at the end of that. Oh yeah. Yeah. Funny. Yeah.

This is, and I, I'm like, that is incorrect. He's that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Funny. Yeah. This is an eye. I'm like, that is incorrect. That is. He's like, yes, you're right. You're right. OK, I'll be working. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's so happy to where he's like, you know, he's like, I'm not going to take

money from you. There's no decency in that or like something like that. And he's like, no, I'll beg on the street like a drug addict. The way he delivered that line was really good. I think things are going to happen for him. You do? I do. What's his name again?

He seems to have some promise. I think so. Yeah, you never know, but I'm hopeful. Yeah. Do you want to go to the town hall? I think you do. We have Chelsea here. We have one of our favorite segments at Town Hall where we get a question from a listener

or someone's reviewing. And this one comes to us from Courtney in California, who says the lead up to Leslie and Ben finally deciding to be together was so perfectly done. Thanks. We thought the same thing. Was there ever another pitch on the way they would decide to be together? And was it ever discussed to have Chris look the other way because he loved

them both so much? Thanks. I love the podcast. Wow. them both so much. Thanks. I love the podcast. Wow, that's so specific. Yeah. Look the other way. Prolonged looking the other way. Well, to set it, I mean, the episode after this is going to be the trial of Leslie Knope, right? So we're going to be focusing specifically on this scandal.

Do you remember in the room, the conversations about what should we do here? What made sense? I mean, the thing I remember pitching on the most was Leslie's dad being this rolling stone. You remember all the pitches on that? Oh, yeah. But I don't, yeah, I mean, I don't remember what, how we were wrapping our heads around it. I mean, it's been so long. I don't remember stuff from two years ago. I mean, this was 2011. What jogs in my mind is kind of the same conversation we've been having today, which is that so many shows do a will they won't they for a long time, right? Something I think, you know, The Office did it for just the right amount of time

where people were going to be like, come on, get these two together. And when you keep them apart for too long or you bring them together and then five or six episodes later, I remember watching Dawson's Creek and season two, Joey and Dawson get together. And like six episodes later, they break up.

And I was like, no, they're supposed to be together. And this will they, won't they lasted forever. And I felt, I don't know, they break up, and I was like, no, they're supposed to be together. And this will-they-won't-they lasted forever. And I felt, I don't know, there's something you want the best for your characters. You want the best for yourself with your relationships. So getting them together at some point, if we didn't, I think there was a feeling was, will people want them to be together? Will people buy it? Will people lose interest? interest. And so I think that I think the choice to bring them together here was done so that the rest of the season could really be about Leslie's run for office and not about the scandal.

So I think that's the best answer for you, Courtney. Yeah. And in the future, we also never do like I just kept thinking at some point they're probably going to break up Andy and April. And I would hate I would have just hated that. You know, they were a couple. They were a good couple and they stayed together forever. Yeah. And I just, I love that. I don't know.

Parks handled relationships really well. I think. The writers, you guys were amazing. And by that, people listening, I wrote all of these episodes. I like to help others, so I give them credit. Okay. I put Chelsea's name on this episode. I wrote every word.

Okay. Just wanted to get that out there. We're all in agreement. I think it was a good time to get that out there. It feels like a huge weight is lifted, just to be honest about that. I'm sick of the lies. That's the problem. I'm sick of the lies. Well, I don't know about you, Jim, but for me, I mean, obviously I know about you. It's been wonderful to have Chelsea with us. For me, personally, it's been great to just relive these silly, crazy moments in the writer's room. This thing that I, you know, you spend more time with the people in the writer's room than you do your family during this time. I know.

Like, how come we've never had any kind of reunion? Shouldn't there be like a writer's reunion dinner? She doesn't know. She doesn't know about the reunion. Oh, yeah. No, there hasn't been, Chelsea. No, there absolutely has not been. No, but there haven't been those things.

But when those, it's like for me, when I see my friends from camp. There's been actor ones, right? Yes. But not writer. Yeah. Well, thanks a lot, Jen. Bastard. Well, I still see camera crew.

I still see camera crew. Just when you're sleeping, they flash around in your eyes. No, my Tom and it's just that was, for me, again, we spent a lot of time on the floor with them. So you guys are in your writer's room. We're on the floor with the cameras and the sound and the hair and the makeup. I still hang with catering. I still hang with catering. There you go. Now we're trying to show how down to earth we are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was having drinks with the transpo people. That's nice. My best boy is actually the best boy grip, which is really weird. That's crazy and beautiful symmetry. I adopted Lozo. Lorenzo is my kid now. Yeah, I adopted him.

You really went the extra mile. I did. Chelsea, thank you so much for being with us today, talking about your episode. I can't believe how much time we spent together. It's really insane. And it's great to see you. I miss your theme songs. I miss your expressions as you write things and stare at us all.

Thank you. You know? Thank you. It's fun seeing you again. You too. She said all that about you. Imagine what she's about to say about all. Thank you. You know? Thank you. It's fun seeing you again. You too. She said all that about you. Imagine what she's about to say about me. Go on.

Hey, Chelsea. You're great. And then we'll end the episode with Dennis. And you're of course great. And it's been a pleasure to meet you, Jim. Yes, it was nice to meet you. This was awesome, Chelsea. Thank you so, so, so much.

Thanks to both of you. Thank you, Chelsea. Thank you all for listening. Oh, that's right. Thank the people. Yes, yes, Chelsea. Thank you so, so, so much. Thanks to both of you. Thank you, Chelsea. Thank you all for listening. Oh, that's right. Thank the people. Yes, yes, yes. You know, text this episode to your group chat. Let your people know about it.

Give five-star reviews wherever you're listening. And now I do like a Bud Dwyer finale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, from all of us, from Jim, Chelsea, me, goodbye from Punny. Take care. This has been a Team Coco production.