Parks and Recollection - Jason Mantzoukas: Citizen Knope (S4E10)

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

Jason Mantzoukas joins Jim O’Heir (Jerry Gergich himself!) and writer Greg Levine to discuss “Citizen Knope” and his role as the Fragrance King of Pawnee: Dennis Feinstein! They discuss Jason’s various roles in the Schur-verse (Parks and Rec, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, The Good Place), a major change in Leslie’s political campaign, Jerry’s perfect Christmas gift, Barney Varmn's accounting firm, and much more. Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail] and we might answer it on the show!

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pits we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on little podcast Spread your wings and fly Hello everybody, welcome back to Parks and Recollection I am one of your hosts, Jim O'Hare Better known as Gary, Larry, Jerry, Terry and Barry

From Johnny Karate And sitting next to me, I always forget your name. Thank you. Thank you. It's a joy to be here with you every time. What is the name? The name is Greg. Greg.

We've worked on this before. Yes, we have done this. I think contractually you're supposed to know that. You know, I was on one episode of Parks and Rec, and my character's name is Jewish Greg. There we go. So I remember being named in the room. I was covering for China Joe, and they had me in it, and they're pitching in the room,

what should your character's name be? What should their name be? And I think Dan Gore shouts from across the room, Jewish Greg. It immediately gets written into the script. It's never pitched on. It's anything else but that. And so, you know, in my very limited

IMDb credits of acting, very crazily, I've played three things. Once was I was mistaken as a blues brother on Hollywood Boulevard for Arrested Development. But I'm actually an Orthodox Jew. Another time

I was in the movie I Love You Man, and my character was supposed to be J-Date guy, and now I'm Jewish Greg. So, Jim, after all of that, let me tell you, I think there's some kind of thing that works. Yeah, I think it works. But think about it. You've only had three credits. They're all pretty big credits. It was development. I Love You Man in parks. Offer only. I never auditioned, which is really amazing. Yeah, you think it works. But think about it. You've only had three credits. They're all pretty big credits. It was a development. I love you, man, and Parks.

Offer only. I never auditioned, which is really amazing. Yeah, you are offer only. I have heard that. Well, what's, you know, didn't plan this, but what a great way to, I think, bring in and talk about who's joining us today. Yeah, this is pretty huge, you guys, for the Parks fans. Tana, talk about cartoonishly Jewish names.

We have Dennis Feinstein himself. Jason Matsoukas is here with us. Yay! He's here to talk about his character in this episode we're going to be doing. Jason, thank you for joining us. Gentlemen, I'm absolutely thrilled to be here. What a delight, too, to watch an episode of Parks in the middle of the day. I just had a great time.

You caught up on the episode. Good for you. I like that. I'm so a great time. You caught up on the episode. Good for you. I like that. I'm so excited. I was so excited to dig back in. And I really was like, oh man, I got to go. Because this episode is in such a flux period of the show in terms of what's going on.

And I was like, oh, right. Oh, I want to watch. I want to watch the disgrace, how Ben gets fired in disgrace and all that. I was like, oh, right, right, right. It fired in disgrace and all that. I was like, oh, right, right, right. It was great. It was great.

I'm excited to chat. Well, the episode that Jason is referring to, the episode that he was forced to watch in the daytime with himself in it, which is also a great little detail. Also weird. Always weird to be watching a show you enjoy and then you appear on screen. You're like, I'm pretty funny. Oh, God. This guy's here? Yeah.

Also, I just, before we get into the episode, which obviously we're going to do that, your resume overall is just pretty amazing. I mean, literally, just even the other day, I'm listening to Howard Stern and your name comes up. I mean, you're just like, you're everywhere. You're a UCB guy. You're obviously an improv guy. You prove that every day with the different things you do. But you also do something that I am super jealous of. You do the podcast with Paul Scheer and June Diane Raphael. Yeah.

How did this get made, it's called? I think June. Well, first of all, Paul, too, who also did an episode of Parks and Rec. That's right. That poor guy had to do a, what is that dance? Oh, the worm, right? He had to do the worm, and I remember watching that like, that sucks. Oh, does that suck?

And Pert Happley, Jay Jackson had to do that also. Same season. Very awful. Awful for many reasons. But anyway, I think June, who also was on Parks and Rec, everything comes back to Parks and Rec, she played April's, what do you call it? Oh, her counterpart.

Her counterpart. Yeah, in Eagleton. That's right. So I'm very jealous that you do that with them because I love those guys. It's great fun. It's a, you know, and shockingly, we've been now doing it for 12 years.

Wow. Which in podcast terms is like forever. Very fun. Very fun. I love that we get to do it. And there is like, there is something quite lovely about all of us having been on parks, which is now also so long ago in a, in a way that blows my mind. Oh God. Blows my mind every day. I bet. And you're the king of Mike Schur shows because you've done Brooklyn nine-Nine, Parks, The Good Place. The Good Place. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. I mean, I was not on The Office. And that's, I mean, Mike worked on The Office. It wasn't his show, but I did not, I wasn't on The Office. So that's the hole in my Mike Schur bingo card. Yeah, because I auditioned for The Office once and I didn't get it. So did I.

And of course I was very, you know, like, oh, that's a shame. I love that show. I wonder, had I guessed it on The Office, would that have knocked me out of the running? I don't know, because sometimes they don't want those. Now, we know Rashida, obviously. There was a big crossover. Yeah, would that have made you not attractive to them

when it came around to Parks? Oh, that's interesting. There are other reasons he's unattractive. Well, yes, yes. But let's don't, you Oh, that's interesting. There are other reasons he's unattractive. Well, yes, yes. But let's don't, you know, that's between my surgeon and I. No, but seriously, I've always wondered, like, I wonder if that would have screwed

the whole thing up. Well, Jim, was the part you auditioned for on The Office, like, very large? Because if it was a big part, maybe so. But if it was a small, memorable part, that might have only made them be like, oh, we've got to get Jim for this next time i am jim o'hara so yes it was quite a huge part and uh no i actually i don't remember what kind of part it was but it was michael scott it was yeah it was about the

guy who ran the place something like that yeah um but no so i i mean at the time you know when you you don't get a gig you audition audition for you. Oh, that sucks. Especially a show you love. No, I agree. No, we don't care. You know, and I also think like because I auditioned for The Office multiple times for multiple roles. Oh, wow. You know, and because I oftentimes will talk to people, too.

It's like there is something about getting in front of people, even for jobs you don't get. Right. Getting in front of people doing your thing so that maybe they don't picture you for this role here and now, but that later on down the line, they're like, oh, I know. I like that guy, Jim. He would be good for this. Or I liked Jason when he came in for this. Maybe he would be good for that. I say this all the time. And I tell young people who are up and coming, every audition, it's about doing your best because you don't know what these people are doing down the road. So when I auditioned for

Parks, I auditioned for Ron Swanson. Well, you know, can you imagine anyone other than Nick Offerman? But my point was, I'm going to be going in for these people who created the office. I just want them to remember me. So if there's a guest spot down the road, for whatever reason, I want to impress these guys. It was never that I think they're going to give Jim O'Hare Ron Swanson. And then whatever happened in that room, they liked enough to bring me back for Jerry. And then, you know, the rest is kind of history or whatever. But you're so you're so right. It's just you just want to get in the room with these people and show them what you can do and hopefully it sticks in their brain you don't you don't know when they're going to decide like oh we need we need uh this or that and so it it kind of makes sense

i think my what i think when i auditioned when they were starting parks i auditioned for um the part that ultimately was Paul Schneider. Paul Schneider, thank you so much. Exactly. That's the part I believe I auditioned for first. So did Adam Scott. Yeah, that's right. Oh, interesting.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I can see that. Yeah, totally. Great part. Great. And I was disappointed to not, I mean, I didn't get close, I don't think, even remotely,

but I was so delighted to just even be like up for or being seen by all these folks because I was just a massive fan. Couldn't have been more excited. That's how I felt, yeah. This is the power of a great casting director. And we should talk about the episode, obviously. But Allison Jones, who cast The Office,

who did the pilot in the first season of Parks and Rec, randomly, my old boss, actually how I got started on The Office was Allison. I wound up working for her during the writer's strike as an assistant and I wanted to be a writer and called Greg Daniels and Mike Schur once a week. 2007 writer's strike? Yeah. Wow.

She called Greg and Mike once a week and said, you're going to do a new show. You need to meet my assistant. He wants to be a writer and they brought me on to be a writer's assistant. That's amazing. But that's the power of a great casting director who's like, this person is great. And I'm going to keep bringing them in until the right showrunners, the right producers realize this is the right role for them and cast them. Which I think is a nice little way in to talk about this episode, which is here you are playing a role I can't picture anybody else playing.

No, nobody. After one episode when you're Dennis Feinstein, it's impossible to picture any other person being Dennis Feinstein. I'll tell you, a lot of fun was in the room had about what should your character's name be. Oh, yeah. See, this is what I want to know, Greg.

This is great. This is very helpful because I don't know any of this, the stories of the behind the scenes of how, because once I get a screw once i'm given a script it's you've been living with it for so much longer than i right right well yeah the fun of this kind of character whose real name is dante fierdi right um fiero fiero dante fiero fiero but he chose he chose dennis feinstein in because it would be more in Pawnee, a more exciting name. Yes, yes.

It's an exotic name in the world of Pawnee. Exotic, even better. Dennis Feinstein. And when there are moments that are pitched like that, when everybody cracks up and you know you hit a home run, you know you have stepped on something super funny that also is not just a joke, but actually speaks to the lore of Pawnee, right? It's a joke about your character. It's also a joke about Pawnee. That's one of those great moments. So it's so funny that you, of course, are the one and only Dennis Feinstein in today's episode that we're talking

about, which is season four, episode 10. It's Citizen Nope. It was written by Dave King and directed by Randall Einhorn. Love Randall. Throwing that out. Love Dave. Love Randall. Great. Good peeps. Good peeps. You know what? Speaking of love, I love the air date.

It was December 8th, 2011. And if I remember correctly. Your blurb skills are incredible. My blurb skills. See how I just like you wouldn't even know I was going to read something. This is so natural. Leslie tries to keep herself busy during her suspension from the department, but her city council campaign suffers because of the Ben relationship scandal.

Meanwhile, Ben searches for a job in the private sector, and the park department tries to come up with the perfect Christmas gift for Leslie, which is almost impossible, and yet they did it. Jim's superb blurb work. Thanks. Superb blurb. it's become my thing um there's a lot of talk about a series spin-off with just blurbs anyway whatever that's that's just a podcast that's other that's other projects we don't need to get involved

but we have um um we have our notes notes just a few call-outs we want to just uh you know address right away before we get into the the synopsis our synopsis we're heavy on nopes puns here apparently yes you know in both of ben don't hate us jason don't hate us it's just yeah there's just reverse Kool-Aid guy. Oh, no. Oh, no. In both of Ben's job interviews this episode, he winds up meeting with characters who we've previously seen. First, Barney, the accountant, who first appeared in Leslie's house and then Telethon as he was a rec center instructor. One of my favorite characters, Barney.

Played by John Balma. Just a little info. Thank you. Yes. And Jason's character, Dennis Feinstein, is the man Tom tried to sell his scent to in Indianapolis, of course. The Parks Committee of Pawnee meeting, the PCP meeting, which Leslie runs as a citizen, is clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose from the series. Friday Night Lights, which I know Mike Schur was a big fan of. And for what it's worth, I went through the script and I was curious, where did that come from?

That line is not in the script. So it was a moment on set. Oh, nice. So she just. She just. Oh, I like that. I love the comparison between script and production. That's a great. Oh, nice. So she just... Oh, I like that. I love the comparison between script and production. That's a great...

I'm curious. I would like to know how my scene measures up in that regard. We'll run it through the computer, through the database

and see what percentage it is. Well, Jason, did you audition or was this an offer? Like at this point, were you... I was offered Dennis Feinstein.

Yeah. I was offered Dennis Feinstein yeah um i was offered dennis feinstein as uh as that um with no understanding that it would ever come back it was just as that initial uh episode that you mentioned greg uh where uh aziz comes to pitch me um tommy fresh is that what it's called tommy fresh i think i think it was to Fresh. Yeah. His cologne. And we have a back and forth in the bar. That was that was the only that was the only thing I did. It was just that scene. It was great. And then just in in the way that I love and Greg, maybe you can

shed some light on this, that that every once in a while I would get a call that's like, oh, we need another Dennis Feinstein scene. Are you available? And I would be thrilled to do it. Those are the best actor calls. Yes. They really are. You're just hanging out, watching an episode of TV at 2 p.m. of yourself. And you're like, you want me for more of me? All I'm doing is watching me.

Well, what I loved about your character is that each time we see him he does get crazier and you start crazy oh you're already crazy I mean there's an episode in a few seasons that we're going to get to and we've got to talk again with you but now you're going to have I think you're going to have Ben

and Tom and Andy in the scene and it's just who are the other people who needs to be in a scene. And Chris. Right? And it's just, who are the other people? Who needs to be in a scene with Dennis Feinstein at this point? Who has not experienced him? I was always wanting

a Dennis Feinstein, Ron Swanson standoff. Oh, yeah. Oh. That would be amazing. That would be amazing. What could be more of the opposite energy

to Dennis Feinstein's manic, chaotic craziness than the absolute terrifyingly still and measured Ron Swanson? Yes. Oh, that would have been great. That would have been really, really great. Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about the episode because we're going to get to Jason very soon, his scene, but we're going to talk to him the whole time, obviously. The whole time. You have to talk to Jason The whole time! He ain't going anywhere.

If you don't mind me saying just to respond a little bit to what you just said, Greg, though, just like when you're outlining all these people and all this stuff, and re-watching it too, what I love about the show is, and forgive me, perhaps you've said this in the past,

but just for me, I was reminded myself, Ben Schwartz, John Ralphio's in this episode. Like you said, the accountant, all these people are from the past. Like, I love that Pawnee, as the show goes on, Pawnee just becomes this populated by characters, almost Springfield on the Simpsons-esque kind of world in which when you need supporting players, instead of just creating new people out of whole cloth, you're just pulling and reusing and reconfiguring all of these players that already exist. And I love that. I love the sprawl of Parks and Rec. I love that by the end of this show, you really have a sense of Pawnee, not just these characters,

but Pawnee. And I always, in that regard, figured that Dennis Feinstein was a Montgomery Burns. Oh, I love that. Yes, oh, that is a good reference. Yeah. I love it.

Even when, along those lines, even the people, the background extras, they tried to keep them the same in the town, in the city, you know city, in our building because they wanted it to feel like these are the same people. This town is this big, which is crazy that there is a Dennis Feinstein in a town that is this big. Some sort of evil industrialist, some sort of malevolent businessman is still somehow controlling Pawnee. I love that.

Pawnee has this mythic status that one day people, when they're entrepreneurs, are like, obviously I'm going to move to Pawnee and strike a race. Yes, Pawnee is my destination. You work with the best and the best bring it because i'm guessing uh you know we recently spoke with uh mo collins and you know mo is she played joan calamezzo and she's fantastic what a

great character one of the just the best and she knew they let her go they just let her go and they knew what she could bring and they let her go and that just let her go. And they knew what she could bring, and they let her go. I will say, like, I felt very similarly set up. You know, like, it was very clear, like, there was a lot of room to define Dennis Feinstein as we went. You know, like, I'm almost positive it's not in the script that Dennis Feinstein hunts people. I think you're right. I'm 90% sure that is an improvised line. And then only comes to be more significant

in the next episode that we were talking about in the cigar bar, when it seems as though Dennis Feinstein would like to hunt Tom Haverford. Yes, yes, yes. Damn amazing. Well, let's talk about this episode. Okay. Our synopsis.

It's Christmas time in Pawnee, and Leslie is serving her two-week suspension from her job. Which is literally the worst thing that could happen to Leslie. Right. I cannot work. To be suspended from her job. She can't work. Leslie insists on sneaking back into her office to grab work to do at home, which Chris prohibits. She decides to use her free time to focus on her campaign for city council,

but her advisors suggest she relax until the post-scandal poll numbers are released. We've talked about a lot, but Pawnee's think tank has the ability to do snap polls at any point on city council races. Like every Christmas, everyone in the parks department receives extremely thoughtful

gifts from Leslie. So Ron and Ann suggest they all work together to give her something special. I just want to call it right away. In the cold open, we learned that Chris Traeger is wearing an experimental workout shirt called Bumbleflex made out of beeswings. And it's so silly. It's so silly. It's so silly. It's so stupid. It's so great. One of the things that I love about this show is the specificity that is brought to bear on things. It's not just that Chris Traeger is up and exercising.

It's that he's doing it to a degree that he has experimental gear. That he's on the cutting edge. In Pawnee that he's on the cutting edge. In Pawnee, he's on the cutting edge of new running gear that's made with artificial B-wings. Yeah. Great.

Like, drilling down into the incredible specificity of these characters because that helps you so understand Chris Traeger, you know, is that line. Not just that he's there, that he's exercising and that he's being himself,

that he, that he's testing out B based, artificial B wing based gear. I love it. I love that. He's a workhorse. He's a runner. He's,

he's gross. You know, some of the gifts from Leslie that she gives to the parks team. I just, speaking of specificity, this is the kind of moment that she gives to the Parks team, speaking of specificity, this is the kind of moment that's fun in the room, right? We know there's going to be a comedy game. The comedy game of the scene is Leslie's going to give gifts, right? And we know that Leslie's an amazing gift giver. They're hyper-specific.

They're very personalized. What would each of these people actually want that they'd be actually happy about? And so what happens? Donna receives a zebra print jacket with the words, you can get it embroidered on the back in hot pink. Leslie got Tom a pocket watch,

but she took out the clock part and put a little thing that reads, baller time. Leslie painted, maybe commissioned, maybe painted herself a picture of April slaughtering the black-eyed peas. I loved that specific.

That's my favorite one, actually, out of all of them. Great. I loved it. Well, and Ron, when Ron was out of the office, Leslie installed an automatic door button that would close the doors around him with the push of a button. And I'm pretty sure that both Mike Shore and line producer Morgan Sackett had one installed on their office doors as well. Also, Jerry's gift, socks.

Jerry's gift, socks. You know why? Because she gets me. She just gets me. Just like, probably the line of the episode. She gets it. With such pride, with such happiness. You won the Oscar for that, right, Jim?

You won the Oscar for that? Yeah, Peabody, whatever. There's a couple awards. A lot of talk about a future spinoff with that. But, no, and I just love that everyone, I mean, to the extent that she won for everybody else, like, amazing, amazing. But Jerry is just as happy with those socks as April is with her black eyed peas dead. And that amazing, you know, she somehow got a gold record for Andy. I mean, amazing.

But I do think the black eyed peas, that is my favorite of gifts that everybody got. And not for nothing, I just recently turned 40 and I have to tell you, if someone gave me socks, I'd be like, you know what? That's really great. A friend of mine gave me socks last year for Christmas and I was like, thank you so much. You guys, I'm 60 years old and my family still buys me underwear and I'm not joking. Amazing. Can I ask you a question, Greg, just on a process level? Sure. When you guys are in the room and you're breaking this part of the story where Leslie's gifts to everybody, you know that's going to be a part of it. Do you guys stop and just for a period of time, just pitch on what are these gifts for each

person? And do you remember any of the unused gifts that were pitched? To answer the first part of your question, yes. I mean, generally when you have a moment like this, you'll, in the prep of an episode, the writers will pitch on everything, and it'll just keep getting pitched on. We talked about this when Mo Collins was here, that when it comes to writing comedy, there's always a funnier joke, right?

Yeah. There's always something funnier. So a moment like this, a scene like this could have easily been four hours in the room one day. Because there's always a funnier thing.

And then our props people, our set deck people are like, wait, you already told us what these characters are getting as a gift. We already bought Jerry's socks. Yeah, because somebody

has to go out and somebody has to go out and somebody has to go out and then produce a painting of April killing the black guy. Yeah. Killing the black guy because that's not an insignificant prop. That is both important

and has to be gorgeous, you know? And it is. But if you came back and were like, oh, instead we want her to kill Coldplay. Right. You know, then you're like, oh, fuck, okay, wait a minute. We got to get Coldplay. Right. You know, then you're like, oh, fuck. Okay, wait a minute.

We got to get Coldplay on. We have to clear Coldplay now. Yeah, exactly. Well, back in our synopsis. So we got to get to Jason too. You know, Ben begins looking for a new down after realizing it isn't what he really wants to do. At Ben's suggestion, Leslie forms a Citizens Action Committee to keep busy and continue her involvement with the local government. She names the group the Parks Committee upon E, or PCP.

Because why not? the Parks Committee upon E, or PCP. Because why not? And I love that even when faced with the truth that that is PCP, that is the drug, she doubles down and is like, no, no, no, because like the drug, she's comparing them to PCP. I love that she's, and that's something that I love about the show is that the show does the joke

that's called PCP and then yes-ands themselves into a further heightening of the joke. Not just this joke, but the next joke. It's not, oh no, we can't do that. It's yes and more. We talk about that sometimes in the room.

This was a very... We call it a written joke. It is perhaps funniest with the fewest words if you read it, right? You can see PCP very quickly. In this sense, you need to spend the real estate now in another character saying a line, you mean PCP.

And then another joke is necessary on top of that, so it comes back to our main character making a joke on that joke, right? Boy, you guys have a lot to think about. Damn it. I'm glad I'm just good looking and repeat what you say. You just get the lines and you're like, what do I have to say? The PTP!

I love socks. You're just the hunk, Jim. You're just the hunk. It's all the looks. Let's face it, I'm the eye candy. The accounting firm scene and Adam Scott's performance in this episode in general, we need to talk about. I love first that Ben is so vulnerable and self-hating, yet he's cheerful in his breakfast scene with Leslie. He's even smiling when he says he's resigned in disgrace.

This gamut of emotions that this character is going through in this episode is great, especially we won't talk about it now. But he's going to go through quite a gauntlet in the next episode too. Like, we're putting his character through the ringer, but I love, I love Barney's character and I love the fact that Ben can't help but make

jokes about accounting jokes. And bad jokes, really dumb jokes. That kill, that are killing it. When he says, Ted, come in here. It's one of my favorite parts. And then he goes, do it for Ted. It's really, it's so funny. And I love Adam's performance because Adam is delivering these terrible accounting jokes in a way that they're crushing and he's disappointed. Disappointed.

Yes. How much he's crushing is like, oh, no, maybe I don't want this job. Right. And I also, he's so kind of pathetic from the beginning of the episode. And by pathetic, I just mean it's heartbreaking. He has, there's a quick back and forth with him and Leslie. Leslie goes, you know, in a way, my suspension from work was kind of a blessing. He's like, yeah, I feel the same way about resigning in disgrace.

And she goes, totally. Like, just like this is how – yes, you have to resign in disgrace, which we all know from his days of mayor of – what was he, the mayor of the Ice Town? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he – A partridge. Resigned in disgrace. God bless this man. And this he did for Leslie.

This time he did it for Leslie. Well, there's a great thing here. There's a joke being made of how often he says, I resigned in disgrace. And she says, maybe stop. Don't lead with that. But there's something quite funny about- Actually, I'm going to own that I resigned in disgrace, i'm gonna find we're finding later yeah later is it john ralphio who says

that he resigned in disgrace like i feel like one of the other characters give puts that on him yes he's not even brought it up there so that's how it's being discussed in the in pond in larger yes right yes yes and he's also so he's telling her he's going he has a um how was he auditioned he has a interview uh for an accounting firm to be their accountant i mean think about how awful that is the accountant of an accounting firm no shade on any accountant of accounting firms out there jim you are fucked you're gonna hear but it's just so heartbreaking and yet i don't know because you know adam is just so good at that role and yeah but you're there's something yeah there's something really great about how

defeated he is and the fact that he keeps using the phrase resigned in disgrace, resigned in disgrace. But then that that John Ralphio uses it only confirms that he's correct. Yes. Oh, that's a great point. Yes. Yeah, that is a good point. Adam or Ben or, you know, Adam Scott's performance. But Ben Wyatt's point of view is he's right.

Everybody knows he resigned in disgrace. He should feel that acutely. And he does. And that's what's right. Everybody knows he resigned in disgrace. He should feel that acutely, and he does. And that's what's great. You know, little did we know that this was going to start or continue this long run of Barney cameos, always cracking up at Ben's bad jokes. There's going to be a wonderful scene in the season or two where Ben winds up back at the accounting firm,

and they throw a huge party for him, and he kills it with jokes, and he's so smug. He gives a smug, like, wink to camera or two where Ben winds up back at the accounting firm and they throw a huge party for him and he kills it with jokes and he's so smug. He gives a smug like wink to camera. That's one of my favorite Ben Wyatt moments in this series. It's funny to think about and we talked about this Jason with Dennis Feinstein. It's funny to think about how a character or joke starts and you don't know in the course of the series

how often it's going to get mined and how crazy it's going to get. Same thing with calzones. There's a moment in this episode coming up when Ben and Leslie are having a meal, and he says just under his breath, man, I love me a calzone. I know.

He just can't help it. But the calzone barrel is quite deep when it comes to Ben. I wrote that down. Was that the first Calzone reference? No. I mean, we learned about his love of Calzones in season three. Okay.

So he's already loving them. Right. We already know that he has a thing for Calzones and no one understands logically. Though I do love a good Calzone. I'm not going to. Who doesn't love a Calzone? But it is. That's what I think Parks really kind of a little bit of what you guys were talking about earlier is there is an element to parks, which is familial.

You know, as even though it is a workplace set show in many regards, it is a family show for all intents and purposes. You know what I mean? As opposed to the office. I love that reference. It is a family show. I love that. You know, it's a family show for all intents and purposes. You know what I mean? As opposed to the office. I love that reference. It is a family show. I love that. You know, it's a family show. It's a found family. You know, it's a found family of people who work together in a way that, yes, the office was people that work together, but they do just work together, even though they have their fondnesses and their relationships and all the rest. Parks is really a family show in terms of it's,

it's kind of outlook or point of view in a lot of ways. And that's kind of what it's about. Oftentimes is the, the, the vicissitudes of, of family life, you know, and that's what I love about it.

And that's, what's kind of great is you're getting to see, you're getting to see these people grapple with elements and events that challenge them in their interpersonal relationships, not just their work life, not just like, oh, no, I'm suspended from work. That is, I'm suspended from work. How does that impact me giving my co-workers gifts? You know, my these love, how do I show my love this way? You know, and that is family. Yeah, that's such a great lead.

And I think to the next part of synopsis, and it'll make sense in a second, but we're about to start talking about the team now is going to start doing something for Leslie, that idea of the family giving back, taking care of of their own. Right. So in the next section of our synopsis, Anne has the great idea to make Leslie a miniaturized version of The Office out of gingerbread. Ben goes on another job interview this time meeting with cologne maker

Dennis Feinstein. But Ben is disgusted with Feinstein's business practices and walks out on the interview. The PCP, we know what we're talking about here. I don't have to clarify. The PCP becomes a loud presence at town meetings.

That could just be true in general about PCP, by the way. And at Chris's job, thanks to Leslie's intense leadership. So we're almost there with Dennis, but this scene where they decide to make this miniaturized version of the office at a gingerbread one. I love Nick in the scene when he has the idea to make it out of wood. And very quickly, Anne,

whose comedy game in this one is taking such pride in how much Leslie loves her that she's the favorite, clearly, in that room of people. She has this other idea that everyone loves, and he just can't help saying Under His Breath or Wood. He can't help.

He's going to have to get out of his comfort zone in the storyline. I think it's so funny. Totally took the wind out of his sails. Yes. He had come up with this great idea. Here's what we're going to do. It's going to involve wood, of course, because that's what Ron's going to do. But Anne, in her excitement and her love of Leslie, as much as I don't know if anyone could love someone as much as Leslie loves Anne, but Anne loves her back.

And she just comes up with this idea that is just steamrolled over whatever Ron is thinking. Well, Jason. Greg. Hi. Have you met?

Yeah. This scene with you and Adam, this Dennis Feinstein scene, a few things I want to call out just to set the stage to talk about this. You know, we should talk about it like it's the Zapruder film. Yes, let's go frame by frame. First, one of the beats is that Dennis berates his current CFO and notable father of two, which we learned, Dennis Berates, his current CFO and notable father of two, which we learned,

Eddie in front of Ben yelling, don't talk to Eddie and saying, treat him like you would treat a person in another country that you paid $25,000 to hunt. That's one thing just to set the, and we're going to get to that. I also love the fact that in the set deck, there's your signature, right? Is above your head. Also, and it's enormous. Enormous. Advertisements for other colognes, Blackout and Allergic

are in the background. This is a guy who takes himself and this persona quite seriously. Tell us, can you bring us into the actor space?

Can you bring us into the first... Let me get into the head space. If you need a moment, if you need a tissue, anything we can do to help you out, this might get deep. I just need to cross over into the artist's mind. Yeah, go ahead. How do you remember when you were like,

I get Dennis, I get this character, and I know where the comedy mind is? You know, it's interesting. I think that one of the things that really helped me with the, I mean, obviously in the first episode that I did, like we talked about earlier, where Aziz is pitching me the cologne, it's in a nightclub. The setting is we're all in a nightclub and there's a lot of hubbub and stuff. And our exchange is brief, you know? And I understood him to be kind of a dick, a larger than life kind of this guy that Tom is reverential of and he's rich and he's got all this power and blah, blah, blah. But there was something about that office set with the giant name,

Dennis Feinstein, that I was like, oh, this is the guy. The guy is, he's not, that's where it clicked in more that he's like the Monty Burns. He's the Mr. Burns of Pawnee that he is, it's all about him. His name is enormous behind him. All of his colognes are, because by that point, they'd also put a bunch of his colognes in other ways, in other, there's a lot of Easter eggs

of like advertisements for Dennis Feinstein colognes and they show up places. So it also helped to understand exactly, he is big. He's like, in this world, he's a big deal. And so that helped too, to be like, oh no, I need to have even more gravitas or even more of a, I need to be even more of a threat in some ways, you know,

is how I started to perceive it. Because in my mind, he is absolutely malicious. Yes, yes. And this is where that starts. This is the scene where I feel like this is the scene and specifically how Dennis Feinstein treats Ben and then, of course, Eddie. His currency is so reprehensible that I was like,

oh, this is how to build off of this guy. And what's so interesting is that first scene that you're talking about, the first time we meet Dennis in this story with Tom is Tom is trying to impress Dennis, right? Tom wants Dennis to buy into this. He's got his own cologne that he wants to. He has a sycophant.

He has a guy who's like, you're my guy. You're like, I worship you. I want to be like you. In this case, you're meeting with someone who very quickly is like, who the hell are you, man? Who doesn't immediately buy into the hype of Dennis, in fact, is worried about how you're treating your CFO. And that must have also, I think, as my guess is, as we talked about, I've only done a few acting moments. You have very few.

That must have been very, very fun in developing the characters. Like, I'm now playing a wholly different comedy game. Yes. And the game that I was playing

that only gets built on, from, I would say, from the first scene, it's there. It really locks in here even though it's very brief. And then it just goes crazy,

which is, this is a villain. I think of Dennis Feinstein in Pawnee as truly one of the only villains. One of the only characters because it is such a... The relationships inside of Pawnee are oftentimes so loving and so wonderful and caring and kind and generous in a way that I'm like, oh, with some exceptions, I want to be one of the people that is none of those. There's a line later when Dennis Feinstein, you know, the crowd is is bullying him because he's he's he's just being at his most villainous. And he says, you know, I say something like, I am nourished by your hate.

Yes. That's who Dennis Feinstein is to me. He's the guy who he doesn't care if he's a villain. In fact, he wants it. He invites it. Give it to me. Give me your hatred. Yes. Well, yeah, that's a great point. I mean, John Glazer's

Jeremy Jam, who will come on the show soon enough. He's one of our, I would say, one of our mainstay villains. But even his character by the end has that thing that we can't help doing at Parks in a good way, which is like, can you find the good? Can you find the good in this bad but dennis remains never redeemed never followed the good and i would tell you as an actor i'm super jealous of that because you know we're also

cast based on our looks and everything else and you know this irish catholic punim of mine is it is what punim whatever the hell it is. It, I don't get those opportunities and it's gotta be so much fun to play a Dennis Feinstein. Oh my God. Oh, that's gotta be fun. It's so, it's so fun.

And also it was fun to be on set because, you know, because, and, you know, pulling back the curtain a bit because that's, I suspect, what we're here to do on a podcast like this. You know, there was quite a lot of opportunity in this scene, in other scenes to open it up and improvise or have people pitch alt lines. And it was very fun to be on set because Dennis Feinstein is able to say stuff that a lot of other characters on the show couldn't, a reprehensible character.

And so it was fun to both be able to improvise from that point of view, but also I got the sense that whoever was there, Morgan or the writers or whoever, they were excited to pitch on Dennis Feinstein runs. There's a great joke in the episode you were talking about before where Andy and Ben and Tom all come to Dennis and they want him to help them out financially and give to the charity and blah, blah, blah. And they all go out, they go to the cigar bar. Anyway, at the end of the episode,

Ben comes in and he basically tells Dennis Feinstein to fuck off and then runs away. tells Dennis Feinstein to fuck off and then runs away. And Dennis Feinstein is going to chase after him. And I think Dan Gore, the king of arriving and just lobbing a joke into the fray. Dan Gore from out of nowhere goes, because I said something to Eddie, the character who is the CFO in this scene. And Dan Gore goes, oh, it'd be funny if you just went, Eddie, get my crossbow. And I was like, done. Done. And it's like, it's in there. It's hilarious. It's like a great Dennis Feinstein line and it was just pitched out of,

oh, this is, he would say something like a this. And then we did a bunch of takes which were just different versions of evil intent declared. So good. I love watching Dan when he would pitch because he kind of looked off into the distance

and then something would hit him. And boom, he'd just throw it out there and it was usually gold. Yeah, it's such a great point. This character is so bizarre and mean and unlike so many other characters on pretty much every other character on the series.

So it is fun to work that that comedy joke engine like, oh, I don't have to worry about saving them. I don't have to worry about proving that I don't have to worry about anything like I could just make it.

This is one of the one of the only characters in this in this show that is by design unlikable. Never redeemed, unlikable through and through. Just rotten. Even more so than Glazer, I would say. Even more so than Councilman Jam.

I think Jon gets more. He gets some nice moments, sure. He does. Yes, exactly. He gets to have softer, nicer moments. He gets to have beats like that and i and i mean for dennis feinstein his arc is he starts mean becomes evil and then like at the end of his run he'd like he's like i gotta go kill my dad he's like he's just consistently malicious oh there's

so much fun i'm so jealous i wish we could talk about i wish we could talk about this one scene and this character forever we have to we should push on with the episode, but obviously Jason's going to stick around and keep talking. Please stick around. Clearly a big Parks fan here. Don't leave me with Greg here, Jason, please. I would never. Legally, you're not allowed to be in a room with me, just me.

This is true. So in our synopsis, Leslie learns her poll numbers have taken a staggering hit due to the scandal, and her advisors drop her campaign entirely. Ben runs into John Ralphio, a scene we've talked about, and advises Ben to use his free time to dive into one of his passions instead of rushing into another job. You know, when John Ralphio is the one giving you sage advice,

you know something's off in your life. Chris feels responsible for derailing Leslie's campaign and lifts her suspension as her Christmas present. You know, can I jump in here for a second briefly, Greg, if you don't mind?

And only because I think this is a great kind of illustration of how I feel like the show does a great job, not just servicing the storyline of the episode, but the characters that are going through it. It's not just that Ben sees John Ralphio and has this interaction, because we also get a bunch of very funny specifics from John Ralphio about that he's just gotten waxed, a bikini wax from a woman named Kim.

Like we get his, here he is just arriving for this brief moment to kind of help shine a light on something for Ben's character, Ben Wyatt. Not Ben Schwartz, Ben Wyatt. And John Ralphio, it both is there to service the Ben Wyatt storyline, but also gets a bunch of defining characteristics and bits for himself that are very funny. Right. You know, and that's why I think the show is so strong is like when Ben goes and has an experience with John Ralphio, that experience isn't just good for Ben. It's good for that scene is strong because of every specific that John Ralphio is giving.

John Ralphio does so many hit and runs. You know, he just comes in. That's how he makes his money. Yeah. That's how he makes his money as a character, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just so brilliant. And yeah, he got a bikini wax

and I believe he's a Brazilian. And can a man have a Brazilian? I don't know. Is that a thing? Do guys have Brazilian? John Ralphio does. For sure. And apparently the butthole.

Yeah. We did learn that too. Jim, I dare you. Jim, I dare you. Go get one. Really? Yeah. Final episode of the podcast.

We'll record the episode while it's happening. Wow. Maybe. There you go. Well, it is a great scene. John Ralphio's career coach. It's happening. Wow. Maybe. There you go. Maybe. Well, it is a great scene. John Ralphio's career coach. It's something, you know, really unexpected, but there's something also, like I said, to point out, that's how you know Ben's in a place, that John Ralphio's the one giving you something, some sage advice. And we had seen Ben with John Ralphio's character earlier in

the season with Entertainment 720, right? Fail spectacularly. And Ben was the voice of wisdom. So here's this other guy who he just saw be a cartoon with his own money, with his own career. And now he's the one being like, actually, let me tell you something. I think it's such a fun scene. Also, anytime you can get Ben Schwartz in a scene, in an episode, you do it. Ben has heard me say this, and he has told me I have to stop saying it, but I will not. I think he's a genius. And I really believe that. And I think he's a comic genius. I think he's an improv genius.

And some of the stuff we watched him do, some of the outtakes that you can watch online, him with Retta. Oh my God. Anyway, he's amazing. His stuff is so funny on the show. He's so funny when he's bouncing off of everybody because he can mold perfectly that insane character

to whoever he's with, whether it is, and especially when it's like, right? Jenny Slate comes in as his sister. Brilliant. Like they're insane together. But then when he's bouncing off of Aziz, he's great. When he's bouncing off of everybody, but especially I love the dynamic between him and Adam Scott.

I think that when he's with someone who's just playing like a straight man response, it's dynamite. And how Ron just negates him. He just negates him. Yeah, he can't stand. He will not put up with any of it. I have no time for this guy. I have no time for this, yeah.

Well, we should close out this episode because it's a really amazing end to the- My God, I feel like we just started. I know, I know. Well, in the end, in our synopsis, Jim, I'm sorry to do it for you. I know we just got going. Leslie returns to City Hall

and is pleasantly surprised by the gingerbread parks department that everyone made for her. The group presents her with another gift, revealing that they have all volunteered to become her new campaign staff. They remind Leslie of her tireless efforts to assist co-workers and friends over the years. Leslie is deeply touched and accepts their help. And in the tag, in perhaps one of our most famous best tags in the series, we see John Ralphio at the accounting firm Ben interviewed at where he begins and ends his temp job in record time.

Not just in record time. It was pitched as a one-take scene, as a walk and talk, that he gets hired and fired in the same scene. It's one of those pitches you hear. You're like, that is great. I don't know what it's going to look like. Obviously, it's going to look even different than we had in the script because you have someone like Ben Schwartz coming in

who's going to add all this other stuff. And it kills me. That scene kills me. Great. It's a great tag for this episode. Yeah. Well, you know, we have a running theme that we talk about on Parks and Rec,

gifts, parties, and jobs, that pretty much every episode of Parks and Rec, minus a few, has at least one of those either a gift

is given or received. I guess if a gift is received, it's been given. There's a party of some form or someone gets a new job.

That happens a lot in our episodes. And in this one, obviously, it's a Christmas of some form or someone gets a new job. That happens a lot in our episodes. And in this one, obviously it's a Christmas episode. There are gifts given at the beginning. There are gifts given now at the end to Leslie. But not just that, but the gifts that the park staff is giving to Leslie are new jobs for them. So that's kind of the first time we've seen that. In that April

is now going to be the youth outreach and director of new media for Leslie's campaign. Tom Haverford is going to be image consultant swagger coach

and is going to be office manager and volunteer coordinator. Andy, security, suites, body man, javelin,

if need be. Which makes me think, does he have one nearby ready to go at all times? Donna Meagle Transpo, a.k.a. Rides and Her Bends. Ron says, any other damn thing you might need. And we have two killer Jerry moments in this scene. First, when the banner, when Leslie's campaign banner is unfurled.

It's a psych gag. Psych gags kill me. The banner just unfurls right in front of your face just as you're walking. And behind the scenes, take one, it hit me. The first time it hit me. The banner literally hit me. We timed it wrong. What I loved about that was it wouldn't be as funny if you just were standing there and it fell obscuring you.

It was the fact that you were entering, that you were entering the moment. You were walking towards them to join and were immediately cut off. It's a great bit of physical comedy. Yeah, and then Jerry, after all these wonderful things that people have said, he goes, you didn't tell me we were doing this. I didn't come up with anything.

It's just like, wah, wah. And what I loved, I watched the scene a few times because what really cracked me up, wah, wah. And what I loved, I watched the scene a few times because what really cracked me up, Jim, is you keep playing that feeling. In the background, you see your face is just still kind of like befuddled. You're like, I wish I could have done it. Something come up with something. But I think, Greg, we can agree, and Jason, you'll probably jump in on this. I'm the greatest actor you've ever seen.

Right. Can we go with that? You're definitely the most humble. You know, I hesitated to say this earlier, but so much of Dennis Feinstein, you know, came out of just watching you work. I get it. I get it. Just really...

Dude, we're on the same page. I would see you staring at me. Behind the scenes, you're a villain. You are. I am a villain. Behind the scenes, you're a villain. You are. I am a villain. Behind the scenes, you are Dennis Feinstein. I heard they based the Dennis Feinstein character on you, Jim. There's talk of that, sure.

Yeah, anyway. Yeah, the Jerry at the end, such a great moment. Well, you know, we talk a lot about who our episode MVP is, our most valuable punny, and it feels wrong. For me, it feels wrong not to say Dennis Feinstein when you have the great... Oh, but I don't agree. Not in this episode. Well, I would...

He's up there. I would say two things. One, I would put you as a most valuable Pawnean in this case because you are one of our biggest Pawnee personalities that we get in this one. We get so much about you. But I want to give that scene, the scene you have with Adam,

the two of you together. I think Adam, in an episode where, this is a special and unique episode, where it's kind of like our series premiere where we're talking about with I'm Leslie Knope, in that Leslie's story is kind of waiting for a moment, right? She doesn't have a strong gay story. And so Ben's search for a job, the parks department making these gifts for her, even the PCP storyline, which doesn't even start to the act one break that tells you it's

not as vital to the storyline. She's waiting for the news to drop about her campaign being pretty much shuttered by the think tank. And then everyone coming in saying, we're going to help run your campaign, which launches us to the rest of the season. So it's not a very big Leslie A story, although Leslie is such a driving force for everyone else in this storyline. And that's why for me, Longwood and Way is saying, that scene that you have with Adam is so fun and so killer and creates this whole

dynamic to Dennis Feinstein that for me that's my MVP. Wow. That was a lot. That was a lot. It was a lot. I appreciate it. And I love that scene. And I love that scene. And I love because one of the things while watching it, I was like, oh right. This period where

everything kind of gets thrown into chaos. You know, like the show's kind of structure gets thrown into chaos. Suddenly they are out of their jobs and they're having to. And what's fun about the episode and my part in it, it is fun to watch Adam have to go like Goldilocks to all these different places, trying to find the being out of place, feeling like he's disgraced and trying to pick up the pieces. Very fun. It's not just like continuing to go to the office here. Same old same old storylines. It's like, no, we've broken it up now. Now we've broken the toy, but we still have to play with it. And that's great.

And I love that scene because you're getting Ben Wyatt at a low point. And so to be for Dennis Feinstein to be, I like when they have just met and Dennis Feinstein says, I like you, Ben. I've always liked you.

I know. It's like, we just saw the meat always liked you. It's like, we just saw the meat seven seconds ago. It's like, what's happening? Do you want to go to the temple? I think you do. Well, you know, we have Jason here. We have one of my favorite things that we do on the show, a town hall.

We had a question from one of our listeners. We always like to set it in a place in Pawnee. It feels like we've talked about it so much, setting it in Dennis Feinstein's office, the odorous office. Oh, imagine the stink in that office. Not talking about body. I'm talking about perfume.

Perfume, yes. Setting in Dennis Feinstein's office feels right. And this one comes to us from Amanda, who says, Hi, Parks team. I have a very deep and thoughtful question. If you had to name a Dennis Feinstein fragrance, what would you name it?

Wow. Oh, wow. Okay. I mean, there's some really good ones. There's some really good ones. And I will say, there's the episode that we were talking about earlier, and I'll come back and talk about it,

where Dennis Feinstein, when they're going to go to the cigar bar and he tells everybody to scent up, and then they just start going through all the different scent names and what they are. We did that run for a long time, just inventing more and more crazy Dennis Feinstein names. And I think at some point there was an outtake reel or a blooper of just those terrible bits, those terrible perfumes from that episode. I think it's on YouTube or something. Somebody found it. I feel like I'm going to pitch one that I believe.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying this because I think Dennis Feinstein would make this and it would be called like necrophilia. But it's feel-ia, so it's like it's kind of grabby and sexy, but the odor is definitely decaying human flesh. I was thinking of something like calling it NASA, and it would say something like, you know, it's a warning from NASA where, you know, you know you're working with powerful stuff. Like this has come with a scientific warning that you actually shouldn't use this for the sake of the planet.

I can't top any of those. It also makes me, there's a great Seinfeld storyline where Kramer comes up with the idea for a cologne where it smells like you just came from the ocean, right? And he has this great idea and he forces Jerry to smell his arm, right? And he says, what does it smell like? And it's the beach. He calls it the beach. And then there's a B side of that with another episode where that idea was pitched, I think, Calvin Klein, which steals the idea from him.

But I was thinking about that just now, like the smells that Dennis Feinstein would think are powerful. It's also the way that Dennis would sell it, right? So I was thinking, what if there was one called Sweat, which is like, you know, when you bring someone back to your house, you want it to smell like you've been at the gym all day. Well, it just smell like you've been at the gym all day. Well, ugh. Yeah.

Right? It just smells like a sweaty body. I feel like he would come up with one called jacked. And it's like, it's like, it's how you smell like when you're in like

really good shape. Like when you're really, yes, yes. Oh my God. Let's pretend I came up with that one. Can we say that? Okay, Jim, why don't you just say like jacked What about you guys

Like jacked So like you know it smells like You're jacked up Alright great Let's move on from that For our listeners If you feel like you can top that I know it's going to be tough to top Jim's But if you feel like you can top that, I know it's gonna be tough to top Jim's,

but if you feel like you can top that, leave your ideas in the comments. And you know what? Speaking of which, leave us some reviews. Give us some five-star reviews. Tell us what you think. Wherever you're finding us,

wherever you're listening, let us know what you're thinking. We always like to hear from you. And we incorporate those thoughts into our episodes. We want to deliver the podcast that you love about the show you love. And if you hate us, go to hell. We don't care.

Jim won't litigate. That's not his way. I am not litigious. And if you hate the show, leave a five-star review and then write a scathing hate-filled review in the body of the text. Just give it five stars. Give it the five stars.

That's a hot tip. That's a hot tip. And I think it's, and also subscribe and hate. Yes. We like all, all of the above. Well,

thank you, not just for those listening, but thank you, Jason, for joining us today talking about this episode. But just talking about Parks and Rec and your time on the show, it's been just, I can only speak for Jimmy, an absolute joy to chat with talking about this episode. But just talking about Parks and Rec and your time on the show, it's been just, I can only speak for Jim,

an absolute joy to chat with you about this. I have loved every second. I am a huge fan. I see you in all sorts of things. And again, I tell you, every time I turn, I'm hearing about Jason. Oh, that's very sweet. Thank you. I had a great time.

I was honored to be asked. I'm thrilled to talk about, you know, one of my favorite characters, one of my favorite characters on one of my favorite shows. You know, I'm so grateful to have been a part of a show that is, that I think is so terrific and so good and so funny and so sweet. Like we were talking about,

here's a show that is wall-to-wall funny this whole episode. And then at the very end, so heartfelt and tender and kind and loving in a way that doesn't rob any of the jokes, doesn't step on any of the humor, but is so sincere and heartwarming that you really are, you are invested in this world so much more so than most other half hour, you know, comedies. And that's what I loved just even getting today to watch this episode, having watched the show, of course, before and being a

part of the show. And then also, I can't tell you, I'm sure, Jim, you know this, you know, way more than I do. I can't tell you how many people want to talk to me about Dennis Feinstein and Parks and Rec. It is beloved in a way that I don't know if any of you know. It is, for me, an incredibly side, tertiary character. People still are obsessed with Dennis Feinstein and obsessed with Parks. obsessed with Dennis Feinstein and obsessed with Parks. Even now, this many years later, it makes me so delighted and so happy whenever people recognize me from this show. It's great.

That was lovely. How do we do it? We can't do anything more than that. You can't top this guy. Jason, thank you. And from all of us here, goodbye from Pawnee. Goodbye from Pawnee. Thank you, Jason.

Thank you. This has been a Team Coco production.