Parks and Recollection - Norm Hiscock: Sweet Sixteen (S4E16)

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Parks writer Norm Hiscock (whose illustrious writing credits include King of the Hill, Saturday Night Live, and Brooklyn Nine-Nine) joins Jim O’Heir and Greg Levine to discuss “S4E16: Sweet Sixteen” (written by… Norm Hiscock!). They discuss Jerry’s leap year birthday, R&B star Ginuwine, the joys of a simple plot, Wheels for Meals on Wheels, and Jim’s emotional backstory for this episode. Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail]! This episode was recorded on June 27, 2023.

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pits we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on little podcast Spread your wings and fly Hello everybody and welcome back to Parks and Recollection. This is one of your hosts, Jim O'Hare, Gary, Larry, Jerry, Terry, Barry from the show sitting next to me and a little too close for my comfort is.

Okay. It's me, Greg. Just Greg. I go by Greg. I like Greg. I haven't been given a Jerry, Terry, Barry, Larry, Gary. You haven't earned it. I haven't earned it.

I haven't earned it. But some say I've earned the right to hang out with you. Well, I don't believe that either. Okay. Moving on. You guys, we have like super exciting. Give us the details, Greg. This is super exciting.

Yeah, we could just chit chat you and I about what's going on in life. Who needs to hear about that? Because we have an amazing guest with us today. We are joined by the brilliant Norm Hiscock. He's worked on King of the Hill, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, The Kids in the Hall, Saturday Night Live, Space Force, and much more. But he's here today because he was a writer and producer on Parks and Recreation. Hello, Norm.

Hello, guys. Hey, Norm. It is so great to see you. Hello, guys. Norm is in Canada, where he lives. I'm in Canada. So we're doing this. A very foreign country.

A very foreign country. He hasn't been sent there in some kind of like Belarusian kind of way. That's right. No, no. I'm free to walk around. Yeah, thank you. But it's so great to see you. I had lunch a couple weeks ago with Greg Daniels.

Oh, you did? Yes, and your name came up, of course. It was all terrible things we said, but it felt comforting. It felt very comforting. All good. Yeah, no, no, no. It was just great. And because obviously King of the hill for

him too uh yes and are you going to be involved in because i know there's talk of a you know i am involved we were working on it and then you know the strike the strike that'll resolve hopefully much sooner than later and then you guys can go back because i have always been a huge king of the Hill fan. And when I first started doing parks one day and whenever Greg would be around, I'd be very nervous because it was Greg Daniels and why wouldn't I be nervous? And, but I had to one day just kind of put it all out there.

I am just a big fan of King of the Hill and blah, blah, blah. And he kind of looks at me and he goes, which this makes no sense. He goes, oh, I could see you playing Hank Hill in a live version, which makes zero sense. But he was just being so kind to me because Greg is so kind. Well, he thought you were a fan.

He thought, who is this person who's come up to me? Exactly. Why is he on stage? He says that to everybody. Exactly. He could play Hank Hill. He said to Amy. Amy was excited about Joe. She could play Hank Hill. Yes, he did not know who I was, I believe. Exactly. She can play Hank Hill. He said Amy. Amy was excited about Joe.

She can play Hank Hill. Yes, he did not know who I was, I believe. No. And he just thought I had somehow gotten on set. Yeah. I'm very excited to have Norm. I mean, we're both very excited to have Norm out today. I am too, thank you.

Jim is also excited. But Norm and I started at the same time at the very beginning of Parks and Rec. In the first season of Writer's Room. It was a small collection of people. And, you know, you spend a lot of time in the trenches with, you know, your colleagues in the Writer's Room and you get a great bond. And so just having you here is very special. Well, I was, you know, you saw it all too. It's like how characters evolved, changed, morphed into something, you know, and just being on set and then coming back with stories about the set and how actors were dealing with dialogue or not dealing with dialogue. It's just

like changed and morphed. Right. So it's a, I think it's a valuable thing to be on a show from the get-go. Yeah, absolutely. And that cast was amazing. I could say, I said that we could be lazy on set sometimes because they were so great they would they could come up with stuff on the spot and i love that feel too of just you know uh it was always chill it never felt uh hurried to me and it was always very relaxed i thought yeah that's rare you know yes absolutely incredibly rare absolutely yeah yeah and you guys also gave us a lot of freedom which was great and you know the powers Yeah. And you guys also gave us a lot of freedom, which was great. And, you know, the powers that be, because you guys would deliver these unbelievable scripts week after week.

I mean, truly, I said it before, I'll say it again. I would leave a table read and Red and I would be walking back to our trailer and I'd go, they did it again. Like, they did it again. Another unbelievable script. And then it would even get better by the time we came time to shoot the script, because you guys would make whatever changes after a table read. And then we'd be on set and we had such strong material,

but at the end of most scenes, depending on time, we did a fun run and it allowed us to play and be together and laugh together. And some great stuff came out of it. But again, mostly the scripts were so damn strong. There was no need,

but, um, it's so funny. You said they did it again. Cause we leave the table, read them and go, well, how do we fix this?

It is true. Yeah. Yeah. That is not how it was looked at on the actor. We always worried, always worried that we wouldn't be enough good material. So, but that's Mike and that's Greg

and that's the whole writing staff, you know, just bring that, make sure when we're on set that we have at least the best version of the story

moving forward, you know. And, you know, my first episode of the TV as a writer was on Parks and Rec and, you know,

when you're a young, early baby writer, generally you have another writer with you if you can who can kind of help guide you and mentor and teach you. And Norm was the writer on set for my episodes. And I remember very vividly my first day, there was a scene and there were issues in it. And the, you know, the actor trying to figure out whatever it was. And they were kind of like calling for a writer. I kind of looked to you, Norm. I think you were like, go ahead.

It's like, this is you. And it actually was wonderful because I thought, oh, Norm's going to shadow me and be there the whole time. But actually his job is to help kind of be like the bumper rails for me. But my job is now to be the writer, and I would confer with you, and we would figure stuff out. But that was my job to go forth. So it was very it was

very impactful well like you feel like you have the script done and you're on set but then uh it's it's kind of crazy you never get used to the idea that that someone will say i think there could be something better here and you go oh yeah yeah you're right doing tons of work on your own script and you tons of rewriting then you go yeah it yeah, it could be better. So let's just, that's why I think the fun run and just having conversations and the writer being on the set and talking to the actors was so great. That's so much freedom. And then you learn, like you were saying, like you learn so much just talking to the actors so they get to hear what

they're worried about or what they're not worried about or, you know, it's all, it's all just conversation, which I love to hear what they're worried about or what they're not worried about or, you know. Yeah. It's all just conversation, which I love to hear. Greg said something a couple episodes ago or many episodes ago. I generally don't listen when Greg speaks, but this one actually caught my ear. And it was because really, it's kind of profound. And I'm sure you guys all know this, but it really caught me. He said, there's always something funnier.

So at some point, you have to stop. Right, I was talking about this, about also the difference between, I've worked as a PA and assistant in drama rooms. And the difference I noticed between a drama writer's room and a comedy writer's room is generally in a drama room,

and if you're a drama writer, you kind of sometimes know when you got it. You know when you got the right line, it delivers the right amount of subtext, it forwards your plot in the right way. And you kind of know we can move on. I'm happy with this. In a comedy room, when you're working on jokes, there really is, it feels like there's always a funnier joke. And so you're never truly satisfied. And that feeling you get as a writer in a comedy room and you pitch something, it'll show up on screen in the script

and you're like, look, I made it kind of thing. And then maybe, you know, not even three seconds later, someone from across the room casually pitches something else. People laugh a little more and your thing is deleted and something else goes in. But that feeling there is something always funnier. And so you wonder, is this the right version?

Are we done? Are we done with the script? And that's also why our hours are so late. But that's made a change on me because even from the actor point of view, I can, you know, whether it's an audition or on set doing something, we make choices with what we're going to do

with that character. I can make 20 different choices. Okay, at some point I have to choose and this is as good as it's going to get for right now right and hopefully if there's a better choice a director or somebody can come in and nudge me in a certain direction then i'll scream at them you're not worthy you don't have an me i do and i'll throw it in their face because that's the kind of thing i do norm that's how i treat but i that's what i loved about the show is like the the never i never sometimes you felt rushed

but rarely did you feel really rushed that you could say well let's try it like you know and and if we don't use it we don't use it but we didn't think of it when we were writing it right so and we're that's the other thing about being on a set too it's like you now see the set and you now get a different view of because when you're writing it you don't know what the you think what the location is but you really don't know and then when you're there you go oh well this is great we can use this or we can do this and we can move over here or why did i think it had to be staged there so there's so much freedom i love that was a great thing about working in Parks and Rec. I felt always that

there was freedom to move things around or to have time to talk about it instead of just constantly going. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the show then, because this is a very special episode for many reasons. One, we're talking today about Sweet 16, which is season four, episode 16. I know. Written by our guest, Norm Hiscock. Yay! Directed by series creator, co-creator, and showrunner, Michael Schur. This is a gold episode.

Originally airing February 23rd, 2012. And when Jim gives us a blurb, you'll see why it's even more special that Jim and Norm are here. Jim, give us a blurb. Well, after realizing everyone forgot Jerry's birthday, February 29th, Leslie decides to throw him a party. Tom is shocked to learn that Ann doesn't share his taste. Yes, it's Jerry's birthday. And it's his sweet 16 because his birthday is on a leap year.

Yeah, it's crazy. So let me just give you a quick little background. I hesitated about whether to bring this up or not because this podcast is all fun. And this is not a sad thing, but I mentioned to these guys yesterday, should I even bring this up? But there was a lot going on in my life when we shot this episode. So first of all, this episode comes up and it's Sweet 16 and I'm in the A story. Every actor loves being in the A story. There's nothing better than an A story because, you know, you're in the A story. And how sweet is that? And this is pretty much all an A story, wouldn't you say? Like, there's really... Right. There's like little B and C tendrils. Yeah, there's runners. There's

little runners. But I, you know, basically it was about my birthday. So it was all good. But what a lot of people didn't know, some did, my mother was dying at the time. And so I knew we were shooting this episode right before the holiday break. And we were on some, I feel it was Lake Malibu. Does that make sense where that house was? Yeah, that sounds, yeah. trying to delve into this episode because it was taking me away from what I knew I was heading home to because I was catching a flight when we wrapped to go back to Chicago because it was all going to come to an end and I knew that right so it was such uh so but anyway so in many ways the episode was a savior for me because it kept my brain totally somewhere else, which I needed. And yet on the other hand, poor Amy, there's a scene in here, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but she falls asleep on my shoulder. And, you know, when there's, you know, there's takes, there's downtime,

there's resetting of lights, there's all the stuff that goes on. So that was a moment where we had a lot of chat time. And, of course course she was checking in with me about everything and she dealt with uh i could even get worked up now thinking about it but um she was great yeah yeah she was great but anyway thank you for this episode because it really kept me uh it kept me focused yeah well uh yeah I didn't even know that's amazing because I just you showed up

and you were delivering comedy because that's how you gotta do number one and I because I'm an emotional dude I didn't want it to be

yeah this big thing but Amy knew just because we had chatted so right and here's your colleague and good friend Amy

who you spend a lot of time with and and in the week prior to a hard time of your life. And so, you know, universe works in mysterious ways. Yeah, it was great. Did I just bring the show down to an absolute crawl? No, no, no, no. You did that a few weeks ago. Yes. You're like, Jim, you bring it to a crawl every week. This is a different type of crawl. So, Norm, something that we've done on our show over time is that we've added the word nope into as many puns as possible.

We have nope's notes, which is our version of kind of like episode fast facts. And we're even going to get to a synopsis, which was a listener-submitted idea. But some nope's notes for this episode. Chris Traeger has taught Champion the dog commands in German and tries to teach Andy how to speak them to the dog. Andy attempts but just speaks gibberish. Now, in real life, Chris apparently can speak German. I remember shooting that scene and just being in tears laughing

because it's total gibberish. Total gibberish. And every take was just like a different version of that gibberish. It was amazing. Speaking of Chris, Chris Traeger does an impression of John F. Kennedy when talking about Champion. And Rob Lowe played JFK in Killing Kennedy. So that's cool. I didn't know that. Yeah, he did right after he left Park.

Mike Schur knew that because Mike Schur I think was the one who wrote that joke. And so I think that's something that he probably had in the back. That's interesting. That's funny. And someone on IMDb pointed out in a comment for this episode that the season and episode numbers 4 and 16 coincide with Jerry's leap year.

Because his birthday lands on a leap day every four years. And this episode celebrates his 16th birthday. And okie dokie. Somebody with a lot of time. A lot of time and maybe a lot of weed or something in the body to create that observation. And Jim, you played Jerry, and you were neither 16 nor 64 when this episode aired. Not only was I not 64, I was still 49. And I couldn't say that enough to everybody around me.

And there's nothing wrong with being 64, believe me. I'm knocking on that door in a few years. But the point was, at the time, I was 49, and they were saying I was 64. But you know what? Well, you played a great 64. I believe you. Thank you. Yes, yes.

That's the goal. Norm, I'm having memories of that there were talks in the room, perhaps, about that very fact that Jim was nowhere near the retirement age. Yeah, we knew that he wasn't anywhere close. But we just love the joke so much. I love the joke, too. And to be honest, when someone's got gray hair, you can kind of fudge with their age.

You know, it'd be different if I had, like, jet black hair and, God forbid, look like, I mean, I wish look like Rob Lowe. You couldn't get away with it. But, you know, a fat guy with gray hair, you can pretty much age him. Right. If like a 25 year old can play a high school student in TV shows, then someone with gray hair can play a retiree.

I think so too. Yeah. And Norm, let me just ask, because I don't know how this worked in the writer's room. How did you end up with this episode uh sometimes it just ends up being the that your turn is up okay i think i think i pitched out an area where uh you know because greg knows this that when we went we would always do a retreat and we talked about season four and season four was sort of like a big move in terms of like how we're going to do season four which was her running for office you know and so and

everybody had a big debate about it about no she shouldn't and yes she should and we both agreed and we came to this meeting place where we thought okay she's going to be using you guys to help her run, but she's not going to abandon Parks and Rec. And I think I wanted to just do a, at least address the issue, you know, have something where she sort of was in between two places and was trying to figure out that. And she was like, you know, the Leslie character would double down to say,

I could do it. Of course. And then having Nick Off would double down to say, I could do it. Of course. And then having Nick Offerman's character to say, I think you can't do it. Seemed like a good butting of heads for those two characters.

I can't remember how the Jerry thing about his birthday, I think it was a joke that people had talked about for a while in the room. I can't remember now. I believe, you know, we've talked about this on the podcast before, but Norma, I've discussed the fact that the beginning of every season is a lot of just like blue sky pitching. And you'd spend maybe even a week pitching thoughts and Mike and, you know, would say,

and everyone would talk about, don't worry about coming up with a fully formed story. Don't worry about pitching something that's A story worthy, like Leslie worthy or something that's Jerry worthy. L story worthy. Yeah. Just pitch ideas. And I believe that the card for Jerry's retirement had been on since a previous season. But I think, because I was looking through the notes, I think what happened was the idea came up for the idea of the leap year birthday happened in this season, in the room. And so the two kind of gelled together. Yeah. But also the Jerry retirement thing too.

I remember that like we thought, oh, that would make a very good episode and people do retire, but it's also that worry too. It's like now we're retiring Jerry. What does that mean exactly? Right. And we don't want to lose Jerry out of the office. So there's try,

it's like the biggest discussion about how to handle that too, as well. You know, I imagine my fear when I saw the title of that episode. Yeah. Right. Right. And so wait,

Jerry's retirement, Jerry's retirement will wind up being a different season. Right. But this, wait, Jerry's Retirement will wind up being a different season, right? Yes, yes. But this, what came from this, I think, was a birthday party for you. Yeah.

So let's jump into our synopsis. Let's jump in, baby. Ron asks Leslie to take a leave of absence from work as her campaign is taking too much of her time. Anne refuses to wear a Kangol. It's so funny. I'm reading these synopsis and you're like, okay, that's a cool sentence. And then Anne refuses to wear a Kangol cap that Tom gets her.

Of course, those two stories go together. Chris reveals that he taught Champion numerous tricks in German while dog-sitting for April and Andy. Leslie uncharacteristically forgets Jerry's birthday. And in an attempt to prove that she can stay on top of her campaign and the Parks Department,

Leslie plans a last-minute birthday party for Jerry. As Jerry was born on Leap Day, Leslie decides to throw 64-year-old Jerry a sweet 16 party. Yay. Yeah, you got it. You got a birthday party. It doesn't get better than that.

Okay, so I love the bit in the beginning of the episode where Leslie is standing in the doorway like the servant of two masters discussing the campaign matters with Ben, the office matters with April. The campaign matters with Ben. The office matters with April. I feel like in the first season or two, we paid a lot more attention to the real rules and nuances of government. The Boys Club episode of season one, right, where she accepted a gift that was over $25. But then that kind of falls away, maybe the specificity of that.

But then it's used for comedy mainly here, right? This idea of the Hatch Act, like you can't do your own personal campaigning on government property with government people. Yeah, and it just fit her character too. She doesn't want to break the rules, right? And she's a people pleaser so i i i just thought it was it's a fun thing to play you know to have her running around and everybody else having to just deal with her craziness right right and then you have the great it's a good way yeah it's a good way to get leslie crazy you know in a in a good way it's without it feeling forced in any way. Absolutely.

And it helps launch the story so we can see that she is dealing with a lot, and she's dealing with a lot in both worlds, and that's sustainable. She's so specific about it because Anne comes to her at the very beginning with a question. She literally needs a yes or no answer. That is it. No, no, no. We are going to run out. We are literally running out.

Yes, yes, yes. For a yes or no answer. Yeah, just a while. And then we get one of the beautiful lines where ann you beautiful rule-breaking moth i mean just anytime she would give ann those compliments yeah it just warms my heart uh when leslie is in ron's office talking about how he's saying it's time to take a leave of absence um and commenting on the fact that she's worn the same thing several days in a row.

And I love the way Amy plays it. That's what people do. I don't know. I own maybe several of the same thing or whatever. And then he says that she has an old lollipop stuck in her sweater,

clearly showing that and it's been there for a few days. And I love how she's like, that's the style now, Ron. It's called lollipopping. All the kids are doing it. Lollipopping. This is not a real trend.

This is not a real trend, Jim. I hope you know. Yeah, no, no, no. I do more of like... We try to make it a real trend. We really push for it. Well, with everything else, I mean, the show created a lot of crazy things

that have stuck in the world, so who knows? But along those same lines, when she was explaining how she volunteers for wheels for meals on wheels, because we repair vans for meals on wheels. Yeah, yeah. Who comes up with that? So specific.

Who comes up with that? Does anyone get credit for that line? Oh, I don't know. It's hard, right? It's a rude thing. Someone probably just said a straight thing. And then we said, well, it can't's a rude thing. Someone probably just said a straight thing, and then we said, well, it can't be a straight thing, so we just have fun with it.

That's so perfect, though, and smart and stupid, and I love it, yeah. And it's the kind of joke that the more you think about it, you're like, okay, so how many Meals on Wheels vans exist in Pawnee? And how often are they breaking down that they require its own other organization to fix it? Yeah. Yeah.

The good thing about the show, it moves so quickly, you don't have time to think about it. You're just moving on to the next. Right. Absolutely. Move on. Yeah. Right. One of the things that's cracked me up now watching this season, Jim and I talked about it, is that Leslie's campaign advisors for the first half of the season always had like snap polls based on like a thing that happened earlier.

So a city like Los Angeles barely has the ability to do a snap poll. Like, you know, you're pulling a 2% amongst likely voters. And how do you know that already, guys? You have a think tank in Pawnee, but that's great. That's great. The figure in the pulse is very close. All you have to do is put your finger on the very exposed pulse. And you know.

So Jim has shared his thoughts about Tom and, and, and dating. Okay. Norm, I'll give it to you real quick. I have, I cringed about it from very beginning to the very end of their relationship. Well, yeah. Well, you know, Greg knows this too. It's like, we had a huge discussion about whether they should date or not. And in the room, I remember it went on for a couple of days and then it's just one of those things I felt like we knew it wasn't going to last, but it was a transitional thing. And it gave comedy for a couple of episodes. And I think,

but for sure, I'm in your camp. I didn't, I didn't think they should date. I didn't believe they would. Uh, but you could just see that there was comedy to be had there and like I always say I love Anne character I love Tom character so it's nothing about these characters like it's just the thought of them together

just and then when I you know of course I think you're dating did Anne sleep with Tom and that just makes me crazy i can't go there don't go there and listener don't go there either don't go there don't go there yeah i like kind of like that we like that and could give it as good as tom could give it so it's like never it was like no one ever really won it was like back and forth it was this constant

thing and you're going even as they were doing it, they realized it was probably not a good idea. And Tom selling himself this idea that it was a good idea, you know? Right. We were talking about in the episode just before this, when they do the campaign ad, sorry, the campaign song. And it's fun to see the comedy that we, that, that Anne got to play of, of actually being the strong man in the relationship. She wasn't the one pining.

She wasn't the one after Chris, perhaps, or dealing with, you know, bad boyfriend and Andy. She was the one who had all the power. And it was so fun to see that version of comedy in relationship with her. So, yeah, it was played mainly for comedy. bad version of comedy in relationship with her. So yeah, it was played mainly for comedy. And I think the room eventually also, we all came together on the sense knowing that it wasn't going to last.

Sorry, everyone at home. It's not going to last. It's not. Spoiler alert. Also, it seemed like there was some comedy for the character of April to play. That's why I think we also embraced it a little bit too. She was stuck in the middle of this thing she created, you know, or helped create, that

kind of came back to bite her in the butt. Well, speaking of April, she has one of my favorite moments of the entire episode. It's in Talking Head early on when she says that she doesn't care what happens to Tom and Anne or anyone. And then she does this, Aubrey

does this smile looking directly into the camera. I don't know, this little bit of acting from Aubrey, it's so small, but it's so stellar. And there's so much behind it. You rarely see her character smile in a way that's pure.

And a pure smile from April is very scary. Yes. I just love it. It's true, right? Yeah, yeah. And from Aubrey I also like the moment where she goes

thank you alcohol that's the other time she smiles too is when she's drinking right Norm brings up a great point which is that this relationship put April in the middle and it's the last place she wants

to be probably with these two people in particular like she has a deep feeling about ann and i think that she thinks of tom and his dating as a bit of a joke and so here she is you know the matchmaker and then relationship mender and i don't think she likes that that much no but i i do think that the way i justify this relationship is ann has been, you know, kind of all over the place trying to find somebody. And Tom does make her laugh. Like she has, you know, he has made her laugh. So that's where I, that's how I can not just get too crazed about it.

I agree with you. I landed on that too, where I think she was in a place where she goes, oh, what the hell? What the hell what the hell right and you go it could be a laugh and then very quickly like probably an hour in thinking well and we talked about this in the previous episode they have one very simple date and the next day he's acting like yeah they're all in Yes. You know, they are all in. And we find out that he had actually texted everybody to say they were basically all in on their first date. Yeah. Yeah.

He was already buying the ring. It was happening. And think about it. If you're Tom Haverford and you think you have someone like Ann Perkins. I mean, she's stunning. She's smart. Like that is a score. That is.

Yeah. I get it it i get the excitement yeah um i want to talk about that because speaking of excitement jerry when he shows up in the office it's his birthday not only is jerry wearing that shirt but we get a jerry talking head which we don't get too often not a lot of jerry talking heads oh i love that talking head i love the way mike shot it and staged it with all the stuff in front of you. When I talk about what my birthday plan is. Yeah, it's a great talking hand.

It's just so, for you, it's like, it's heaven on earth. It's heaven on earth. He says, my wife, Gail, makes such a big deal out of it. We go, we split a huge piece of cotton candy cheesecake from Kiki J's cheesecake facility. We hold hands we split a huge piece of cotton candy cheesecake from Kiki J's Cheesecake Facility. We hold hands for a while, listen to

some Anita Baker. She meets up with some of her friends, and I turn in early. She meets up with some of her friends is part of what makes your birthday so wonderful. I know. But turning in early, it's all part of, it's like,

it's perfection and you do it just so casually like this is so great well let's talk about the next section of the episode of the synopsis so we can get to the big party Donna reluctantly agrees to host the sweet

16 party at her family's lake house saying at one point that the meagles are a cold people, bring your own towels. After discovering that Genuine is Donna's cousin, we'll talk about that, Tom realizes that Anne does not share his love for 90s hip hop music.

Leslie, overconfident in her ability to manage both a campaign and the parks department, realizes that she forgot to invite Jerry to his own surprise party. Damn. Okay. A lot to unpack. A lot to unpack.

There's a lot. We get Donna Lohr here with Genuine. I'll just start with the A story. In watching this, Norm, I was just struck by sometimes crafting an episode, you have a great idea for, let's say, a big third act set piece.

I always talk about Leslie being chained to the gate in 94 meetings. Like, you know that we want that. How do we work kind of backwards to get to this great moment? And sometimes you have a great way in, which is that they're going to do a campaign ad. And they're like, okay, I can see. We know there's going to be comedy that can unfold from that. And in this sense, I'm watching the episode in prep. And I was just so struck by the perfection of the act break of no one invited Leslie. No, sorry.

No one invited Jerry. Leslie forgot to invite Jerry. Yeah. And how simple that was. And it snuck up on me again. And I know the episode very well. I'm like, oh my God, yes, of course. How perfect and how simple.

This is Jerry's surprise party. No one invited Jerry. Which makes perfect sense. Yes. Yeah. I just, it played into that story of her taking on way too much, right? And then trying to correct it. And then doubling down on it.

We're going to give Jerry this great birthday party. I'm going to, I, yes, Ron, I can do it all. And I, I love that Ron just quietly just miles all the way through this, watches her learn from her own mistake. And then that it builds to that scene that I love, which is the two of them sitting on the dock talking, you know? Yeah, yeah. I'm jumping ahead.

Yeah. Yeah, so, but, yeah, that's like a fun act break for her to realize, oh, I am sort of, now I was head above water, now I'm starting to go. And Ron played her so beautifully this whole episode. He knows that she can't tell her. She has to see it for herself. It's very Woman of the Year, which is another Norm episode that you were the writer on. This idea of, you know, he's got her and he knows how to work her. And he kind of at this point, just instead of poking at her, he's just like, okay, Leslie.

And sits back and kind of waits for her to realize the thing that he knows she'll realize eventually. Yeah. Well, that's a good point, too, because we had him poke her in the Woman of the Year episode. He was like poking her a little bit. Right. And this, we didn't want to do the same thing of him poking her. He said, all right. So he sort of just was along for the ride, but you knew that he was right.

He's just waiting for her, for the other shoe to drop. This episode to me is a very simple story, right? It's the birthday. I love simple stories. I love them. Yeah. I had a feeling. There are some people I think who maybe also thrive on the constant turns, the plot, and

then you get to hang your jokes. You get to put your jokes with so much plot, right? You use your plot as a way to structure your script, structure your lines, and then the jokes are kind of born out of that. In this case, the plot is very simple and that it allows for the jokes to be a lot of fun discovery by the writer, by the writer's room, when it comes to this run about Tom's oh-no-no's list and right yeah you like that right I do I love it it's like you have the simple premise and then you have tell the story I don't mind twists twists are good but I don't like twists for twist sake you know but now you're

twisting and then you're going okay and like maybe there's one or two many twists in the story and I like I understand the value of a twist but I don't like too many twists in the story. And I like, I understand the value of a twist, but I don't like too many twists. But I feel like that's more like drama uses twists more. Because, you know, in terms of like a murder mystery or something, you need tons of twists. But I feel like you can relax into a comedy, a character comedy especially then you can find character comedy moments and i like spending time with the characters and this is like uh

sitting in a little bit not so worried about it absolutely because you know um another episode we've talked about a few times not just when we've done the episode specifically, is the practice date early on in season two where we have that great B story of everyone digging up dirt on one another. And you create this little idea and it allows for, you know, this episode is very similar in that sense where we're going to go to a lake house.

Okay, whose lake house is it? And what are they going to do there? And okay, it's Donna's. And that's cool in itself. You get to do fun jokes about her rules. But then when Tom sees Genuine's picture. You guys will be shocked to know that I also didn't know who Genuine was. I'm not. I got to say, we're not shocked.

I still don't know who Genuine is. And you've met the man. I've met the man. I don't know who he White is. And you've met the man. I've met the man. I don't know who he is. Okay. He was lovely. I remember Rashida coming up to me and saying, just so you know, I know who Jenny White is. Maybe Ann doesn't know.

But Rashida does. Before we jump there, what I also loved about this episode i love when we get donna meagle because donna's so secretive about so many things we know she's sexy and wants she's got her men we know she's got them kind of all over the place no one really knows what the hell's going on with donna but now we find out her family has a lake house and she's cousins with genuine i mean what yeah like our big reveals and it's not just the lake house. I've been to lake houses. That's a beautiful house.

And they're like, you know, little cabiny kind of things. This was a lake house. Right. This is a full-blown, this is a home on a lake. Yeah. It was my favorite location

in terms of all the episodes we did. Just because you know how fast we move around and we're always jumping around to different locations. It was nice to settle into a location, and we were there for a couple, two, three days. I can't remember now. Yeah, we were. Yeah, and it was nice just to be there

and just to explore that place. Like that lake house, I think Mike sure used every room in that house for just in terms of how pretty it looked and setting up shots and stuff it was really nice i got yelled at by the uh owner the owner showed up one day normally the owners you know they they take off when you know you're because these places are being rented someone's paying i would think a fair amount of money for these places and apparently the the one this one, nobody was supposed to sit in. But it wasn't marked.

And I sat in it. And this woman comes over. Sir, you are not supposed to be sitting in that chair. Now, on her behalf, she probably thought, OK, of all the people here, he's the last one I want sitting in this chair. OK, well. No, no, I'm just saying. That is a large man. I don't want him in this chair.

But boy, I was like, oh, yes, ma'am. And I got my fat ass out of the chair. I was a little humiliated and I walked away. Wow. Before we move on from Genuine, I just want to say as a personal, just fan of moments of the show, but Tom repeatedly saying Genuine. Yeah. The way he did it. It was very funny.

And I remember that also being just a big room bit. Like, I think the room loved that. When we watched the cut and when the episode was built, just the idea of him just saying the word genuine over and over again. It was great. Yeah, I love the way he moved towards the camera and he sort of had a little stompy walk that went with it. Yeah, yeah.

And did somebody know genuine? Is that how that happened? How did we get a genuine. Yeah, yeah. And did somebody know Genuine? Is that how that, how did we get a Genuine? Yeah, there was someone in the room. I, cause I'm like you, I didn't know who Genuine was and I felt like an idiot. And people were laughing as soon as Genuine was said. I went, ha, ha, ha. Right.

What the hell is Genuine? Yeah, but I'm going to introduce him in my episode. Yeah. So we talked about this a little bit with Andy and Chris Champion. I like this insecurity that Andy has. He's feeling insecure about Chris training him. And I don't know, even Andy is this happy-go-lucky guy. There's this little bit of insecurity to him.

Anyway, so all of that is to say, when he tries to show off with the German, you alluded to this earlier, Norm, and then I didn't realize that he just kept making stuff up, take after take, but when he had that little bit of this toxic and then Merkel and...

It's so funny. It's so stupid and funny. Yeah. Rob Lowe's delivery of that low line for it at the end, just telling him who's Merkel, and he told him. It's not a joke. It's just an answer. Just an answer to a question. It's an answer.

It made me laugh watching it this time around. It's just dryly given. But I tell you, I would love to see the outtakes of Pratt doing the different versions of his German. Oh, it's really dryly given. But I tell you, I would love to see the outtakes of Pratt doing the different versions of his German. Oh, it's really funny. They just let the camera roll. Right. That's what you do with Pratt.

Just let the camera roll and let the magic happen. Well, speaking of magic, let's pop back into our synopsis and keep going forward with our story. Leslie and Ron drive back to Pawnee to get Jerry to his own surprise party. Tom continues to investigate the differences between Ann and himself. And now Leslie and Ron find Jerry, but she is quickly distracted by a mistake in her recently distributed campaign signs.

And meanwhile, April reveals to Ann that Tom is thinking about breaking up with her. Okay, let's talk about the campaign sign first, if that's okay. Oh, so funny. I love that scene. I love that scene with the guy. The guy is awesome. I should have looked up his name.

He's so great. And when he's reading it, you know, letter like by every sign i'm like you just leslie's like uh-huh i know you just want to jump through the screen and go we know it but it's so funny it's so i know and that's what's great about amy is that she can let like another and she's just she knows the perfect timing of when to interrupt and not interrupt the flow it's so perfectly done and we've already seen the joke in a way. We saw the sign as they're driving by. We've seen it has the URL.

We know it's a site gag. It's a link. Right? But now at this point, this is in a 20 and a half minute episode of television at the end of the day. This is precious real estate. But this one joke of just reading the whole thing,

got it. It really makes you laugh. It's worth every second that they use. It really, and her pausing, trying to jump in and just realizing she's got to let him do it. She's got to let him do it because he's going to do it.

He's not stopping. And none of it makes sense. It's obviously a link. It's obvious. Yeah, yeah. It's so good. And it has like the really bad, low quality version of the sign. It's. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. And it has like the, the really bad low quality version of the sign. It's clearly terror.

This guy didn't give a, he didn't get. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. I feel like that's what's going on though. When you go into stores now,

no one likes to take saying, sorry, sir. And they'll, we'll make you right now. It's like your fault. It's not their fault. It's what you gave me.

I did what you gave me. Yeah. Okay. But before that, cause this involves me. So of course it's like your fault. It's not their fault. It's what you gave me. Right. I did what you gave me. Yeah. Okay. But before that, cause this involves me. So of course it's much more important. Uh, when they jump in on, on Jerry in the tub.

Yes. So they just basically break into his home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The door was open, but they push in and they go in and nobody is home apparently. But Leslie has got to find Jerry because she has planned a party, a surprise party.

And they open the door and I'm in the tub. So let me tell you what happened before all that even happened. I did not want to do that scene. Here's the reason. I am a large man and I'm as, I believe the technical word, if we were to look up in the dictionary is her suit,

H-I-R-S-U-T-E, which means fucking hairy. And I am a hairy SOB. I'm a hairy dude, too. Well, but, you know, so I have my insecurities. I'm fine. I have, and it's not just like, I'm not just a guy with chest hair. It goes shoulders. It goes back.

Oh, yeah. I'm a hairy SOB and a large man. So I was so i was like oh god i don't know if i want to do this i don't want to do this but of course and you know anything for the show if it's a funny bit it's a funny bit so i did it but i will tell you i cringe doing it because i was uncomfortable i'm the guy who has the t-shirt on at the pool you know what i mean i'm not the guy who's and some guys it's so great you see a big guy hairy or not whatever they take their shirts off they're doing their thing look at what chris farley did over the years god bless like to have that kind of self-confidence is really amazing that ain't jim o'hare and so it was tough and remember mcgill who was our uh you know tom mcill, our, I think he DP, was he DP by then?

I think so. I think he was. Anyway, camera guy. John was me. One of the greats. And he was just, because we would tease each other constantly all day long, every day for seven years. And anyway, so he was at my ass. The whole thing was like, oh, this is going to be awful.

So we do the scene. And of course, it's i i think it's a fun scene and i do love it but the repercussions of the scene were something i never would have thought to expect i became a bit of a um i don't know if the word is icon but a bit of a hero in the gay world for the bears oh in the bear world community i was like the poster bear and the different websites and everything so i was like wow someone likes it yeah what the hell yeah i was on board i was on board in the tub with the alone time i loved it was just like no i just and the And the brush, the scrubbing brush, too, also made me laugh. It wasn't just like I'm having a casual soak.

I'm relaxing. You're actually bathing. Yes. With food. You're washing yourself. Jerry is washing himself. He's going to read. All this stuff.

So now watching it years later, do you still have that feeling? Well, there's a lot of memes out there of me in that tub many many many uh so you know it's made fun of it's it's celebrated in some places so overall i absolutely love it first i never would have said no i just wouldn't have and but when i look back it's i love it i love everything about it i also love amy's you know leslie's reaction when she walks in and realizes jerry yes and if you go back and look at this episode um she can barely make eye contact she doesn't know what to do yeah and ron and nick offerman's loving every second of it hello j Hello, with a little smile on his face.

Oh, he's loving it because, again, he's proving to Amy, you have messed up. This is all too much. You can't handle this. So anyway, overall, I love it. I love the joke, too, where he's saying, he's saying, come on, Jerry, let's go. And you say, can I get dressed first?

She goes, we have no time. Offerments, you know, it's like saying, no, you have time to get dressed. Because Jerry might have just stood up and she would have seen what that doctor was talking about, if you know what I'm saying here. She would have got the whole full view. Yeah. So overall, I ended up, I love that scene. It was one of those things, too, where we go, in the room, we have to find Jerry in the bathtub.

That's, you know, I think Mike sure loved that. And then we were going, but how? It's like, they walk into the house and they go, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they walk into the house. Yeah, she's got to get him. Let's move on. After Andy ignores Chris's advice, Champion escapes.

After Tom and Anne argue about their differences, a drunk April announces that their argument is stupid and that they should break up. After a visit to the printer store, a lot of afters, Leslie replaces every misprinted campaign sign in town by herself. Just to pause, I love that she had to do it that day. She couldn't wait. She's like,

ah, Jerry's birthday, you're gonna wait. I gotta do it today. When she finally gets Jerry to his surprise party, nobody is there to surprise him except for a very sleepy Ben. And Adam Scott's half-awake surprise is so funny. It's so good.

It's perfect. It's perfect. You know, we get a little thing at the printer store. It's called Scientologist. I didn't catch that. I gotta tell you. I saw this in the notes. I did not catch that. Scientologist. I will check that out.

Okay, great. Be sure to check out Scientologist. Oh! Because I could end up very busy over the next few months. Just a suggestion there. I'm very easily swayed. Leslie is so desperate to prove

Ron wrong. I love that Ron clearly just wants what's best for her here. It's really beautiful. Their relationship is very special. We mentioned this on this podcast before, but in the way that maybe we've talked about the cringey or awkwardness

or do we believe them relationship of Tom and Anne. One of my favorite moments in the room was a time when Greg was there, Greg Daniels was there, and was pitching on stuff and mentioned, what if Ron and Leslie kissed? Ooh.

Right? And I think he never intended for it to be, let's make this a story. But sometimes you pitch something to see what comes up, to see if that just stimulates and catalyzes a story idea or whatever. But it's born out of the fact

that they clearly have a very profound, deep relationship and it's very special. And it is one of the two, which the backbone of the show, it's Leslie and Ron and Leslie and Anne. And my, excuse me,

as I drop my pen, is my very humble opinion. And I think of them as, like, when I would write the Leslie stuff, it always made me think that they had that sort of relationship. And

not to cross a line, but when you sort of start thinking about it, you're going, no, I don't want that. I don't want that. I do not want that. I can go with Ann and be uncomfortable with Anne and Tom, just because they're young and they're both searching and looking. Oh, that would not have set well with me. I can imagine a lot of shows that would have actually made that choice,

which is like, of course they should wind up getting together. And that they compliment each other. And we've been building to it the whole time. And of course, I love the fact that that's something we never did. No, I love it. Let's wrap up our episode, our synopsis. Oh, it sounds so fast. I know.

I know, man. I know. These episodes are chock full of stuff. Andy admits to Chris that he is insecure about being a bad dog owner. Chris makes him feel better by secretly blowing a dog whistle that signals Champion back. April is horrified to learn that her drunken words

encouraged Tom and Ann to stick together. And Leslie asks the party goers to offer individual toast to Jerry. Ron successfully convinces Leslie to cut back her hours at the parks department. And Andy decides to loan Champion

to Chris to make him feel less lonely. A lot of stuff at the parks department. And Andy decides to loan Champion to Chris to make him feel less lonely. A lot of stuff at the very end. A whole lot of stuff. It feels like a lot of the plot at the very end, which is like, we have these nice little moments and here's how it kind of sums up. It's like, we have a gift parties and jobs.

Remember that run at Parks and Rec where like there's an episode had maybe one of those. And here we have a great party and we have a discussion about Leslie's job. And in a way, a bit of a gift where Andy loans champion to Chris to make him feel less lonely. It's nice. Yeah. And I love seeing the whole cast in that one room together. Sitting down and doing the toast.

I thought that was great. My favorite scenes, I've said it a hundred times when we were all together. room together, just sitting down and doing the toast. I thought that was great. My favorite scenes, I've said it a hundred times when we were all together. It just, it was fun. I think great stuff came out of it. There was so much banter between takes. Those are my very, very favorite. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm with you on that. And one of my favorite scenes that we wrote for Leslie and Ron, and I rewrote it with Dan Gore, was the scene on the deck. And we came up with the whole last one thing. Yes. Which I love. I love that line. So that was a fun rewrite. Yeah.

Give us the actual line because it is. I think it's never half-assed two things, whole-ass one. Whole-ass one. That is so smart. Yeah. It's funny because it's a funny line to hear. It's really smart. But it's really smart.

And it's the wrong way of saying the thing. That's very. Yes, exactly. Right. It's really lovely. And plus in that speech, we learned what Ron had done as a child. Right. It just blows my mind.

He didn't learn this like a year ago. He learned it as an 11-year-old. Working in a sheet metal factory and a tannery. While in school. While in school. And thrilled about all of it. You know, trying to do too much. That's just too much at 11 years old.

In fact, this act has both this really beautiful, poignant lesson from Ron, and it also has Ron saying to Donna, Ron saying, is this all the eggs we have? She says, yes, what are you making? Eggs. Eggs. There are also some random moments in this performance-wise. A couple that jump out at me, that one right there when she's looking at him like, you are out of your effing mind.

And also, earlier in the episode, when Leslie reveals that Donna has the lake house, go back and look at her take when they cut to Donna and she realizes, what? Like, who the hell knows this? And Reda just nails it. And again, I love when there's big reveals about a character. And this was one of those. I like dropping little things like that, too. And you just do it in a way that you're not making a big deal about it.

No, no. The best. Well, you know, final thoughts on this episode, everyone? I mean, it's a good one. We've talked about it. It's lovely. How did it feel watching it back, Norm, after the time has passed? It was fun. I just remember thinking, oh, the location was so great.

Yeah. And you know, at the very beginning, because I saw it in the notes, where was Ron doing the canoeing? I think it was right in front of that house. Yes. Wasn't that, that was the house. Yeah. And he brought his canoe because, of course, Nick makes canoes. Right.

And every other damn thing that he does. Right, the real, actual Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman, yes, not just Ron Swanson. Nick Offerman does this. And it's, of course, what Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman, yes. Not just Ron Swanson. Nick Offerman does this. And it's, of course, what a beautiful shot. He's just sliding across the front in front of that beautiful home on that beautiful lake. I think we just sent a cameraman out with him

just to get shots of him. Yeah, why not? Send a B-team. Overall, my impression is I loved this episode. I loved so much about it. Again, it has other meanings to me because of what was going on in life. But I think everybody had their moments,

which I love when, you know, every main, I know it's tough for you writers. At this point, you have 10 of us. And so I don't know how you do it in 21 minutes where you kind of service everybody. But I think this was an episode where everybody had some great moments. And that is a treat, first of all, as an actor episode where everybody had some great moments and uh that is

a treat first of all as an actor when you get those great moments but i think as a fan when you get to watch those great moments so i'm a big fan of this episode i think you did great and writers are aware of the fact that it's like the fourth season in and everybody has characters they love so you want to give everybody a moment that's the real i think in the rewriting process where like you were saying at the table, oh, this is good. And everybody's going, but does everybody have something to do?

Because you don't want to, and you know that there's people watching and they're going, I want to see Jerry. I want to see Prada. I want to, you know, and this is four seasons in, right? Yeah, four. And this episode has one where, you know,

we wind up with pretty much like a runner, a sea runner, let's call it, with Chris and Andy andy that's one of those that's also one of those moments where you have an a story and it captures ron and leslie and jerry donna sets the scene by owning the place so she gets to you know touch every story if she needs to her list of things you can't do things you can't touch you hear that beautiful spa you're not gonna be to be in it. Right, right. And then you have April engulfed now in this Tom and Anne little, you know, several episode runner. And you're like, who's left? You're like, okay, so it's Chris and Jerry. And some of the most fun is pitching.

All right, what are Chris and Jerry? Chris and Andy. What are Chris and Andy going to do? Yeah. And sometimes that creates some of the most fun and loved storylines because they're unexpected people together and you just find a pure comedy little story. And also in that storyline, just to wrap, I don't know, maybe we already did kind of wrap that up, but the sweetness of Andy, he's willing to give up Champion so that Champion has a better life. And Chris going, no, dude, he has a life because of you in April. And I just, what a sweet, sweet, sweet scene.

I just, I mean, you have to love Andy at all times. Dude, yeah. So we have a recurring segment on our show that's Jim's crap we didn't get to because there's always stuff that tickles you. There's things that make me laugh. There's always so much time. And Jim, can you give us some of your crap?

I will. One of the things I loved was Ron's toast to Jerry. It was, Jerry's work is often adequate. Great toast, because it's awful. But the best is they cut to Jerry and he's like, oh, like a little, yeah, he's so pleased. Like, well, isn't that sweet? What a sweet thing to say. yeah he's so pleased like well isn't that sweet what a sweet thing to say um so you know when they show pictures of me like on a hammock and all that kind of stuff um that they're putting

up for the parties they're doing like a um what would you call it a wall of you do at funerals now where you just have the pictures a tribute yeah i got a call and i said would you take pictures at home because they didn't have anything ready to go. So that hammock is my hammock at home. Oh, cool. Yes. And some of the other pictures were things that I had. That's lovely.

What a treat for the people to know that I own a hammock. Yeah. If I had a hammock. If I had a hammock. I love Tom's list of oh, no, no's, even though, you know, I know we did talk about that. And then also earlier, Tom says, let's start a pool. It's about Jerry. Who wants retired and who wants dead?

And without missing a beat, April, dead. Just without. And also when Leslie says we're going to throw Jerry a party and there's all this clapping, they cut to Aubrey and she's just dead staring right down the lens of the camera. Like, oh, just so perfect. I mean, her looks literally can kill. Her looks can kill. Yeah, yeah.

So then we talked about that. I'm trying to look at my things here. I do love when Jerry's in the back of the car, and Leslie's like, we have to do this. And I got it all done, Ron. Everything is good. And Jerry goes, well, we didn't get the drugstore for my liver medication. Leslie, well, you should have thought about that

before we dragged you out of the bath, Jerry. And Jerry goes, yeah. Yeah, even on your birthday, even on Jerry's birthday. I had done nothing wrong. On a day where she fucked up. She fucked up. Actually, Jerry, that is on you.

This is on you. And those are some of the crap that we didn't get to. Well, can I tell you something? That's great crap. And I actually have some crap. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because this episode had so many little moments that I wish we had the time to get into because I love this bit early on when they're talking about the party where April's asking questions about it. And she says, the usual, cake and pop. Oh, yes. The unusual, fish and pop. right? Oh, cake and fish. And like, no fish. It's so stupidly amazing. I love it.

I love it. She lives to dig. She lives to poke. Yeah. She lives to poke. The Oh No No's list is another great comedy engine because you can imagine that being just like a hundred... You can see the room going crazy over that, right? Yeah. And what makes it in is that as we've talked about, stuff like her opinion on bed sheet thread counts

and hasn't seen a single Paul Walker movie, doesn't care about Blu-ray. He owns more pairs of Uggs than she does. You know the red flags that most people are looking for. He begins at a thousand for the thread count and he gets down to six hundred

and he's like, when are you going to stop me? Please, stop me. For the record, Jim O'Hare, I don't know what my thread... Is that a thing? It is a thing. Thread count is as important also as the thread itself. I don't know what my thread... Is that a thing? It is a thing. It is a thing, but thread count is as important also as like the thread itself. Oh, I don't know any of that.

It's a myriad of things. No, I don't. And one other thing, just to call out, is that in the scene where Andy and Chris are together and Andy talks about he ate one of Chris's soy bones.

It was delicious. But that you can see Chris came on this luxurious lake house surprise birthday trip with a headlamp. You never know. You never know. And Bumbleflex. The Bumbleflex, the beeswings gear. He has like a Bumbleflex jog or run or whatever it is. And I just love that.

I think Chris is ready to go on a run at any second. At any moment, a run could occur. Let's cap off today's episode with declaring our episode MVP. It's our most valuable Pawnean. It's which character moment in this episode sticks out the most to you and why?

Gentlemen, do you... Well, Norm, where do you go? This was your episode. Do you have an MVP? Do I have an MVP? A champion. Champion. Yes, who at one point Andy thought maybe his leg grew back. Yes.

He said it himself. Did his leg grow back? And he's very genuine about looking about it. Yes, he thinks that's a possibility. Yes. That's a safe bet. Champion, that's nice. And what about it. Yes, he thinks that's a possibility. Yes. Well, that's a safe bet. That's nice. And what about you?

Because I'm hedging here. Well, I'm going to be a softie and I'm going to say Jerry. But I'm not just going to say Jerry. I'm going to say Jim. Because, Jim, I have to tell you, I appreciate you sharing what you shared earlier about your. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what was going on.

And I think, you know, there's something that is going to add this other layer to the show now, knowing that it's not just this comedy, great comedy episode, but it provided some grace for you in your life at a time. It's very special. It's like when you go to a concert and you hear a song that you didn't really pay attention to before in an album, and all of a sudden you loved it live and then you listen to it and every time you listen to it, it's like you're back at that concert. It has that

added significance. And that for me is knowing this about you. So for me, it's Jim O'Hare. That's very sweet. I'll never do that again. I'm going to go random because of course I thought everybody nailed this episode. I love the dude at the sign shop. I just love that boy. I'm going to throw him.

I feel terrible. I wish I had looked up his name ahead of time. And I really feel bad because he nailed that scene and deserves. Wait, Sean is looking. So I'm going to stall here. I got furiously typing on his phone. Furiously typing because he deserves credit. We talked about him several times.

We did. And I've given him my MVP of the episode. I think his character's name was Walter, if I remember correctly. That'd be amazing if I was right. Yeah, if you were right. It's like a weird, like a beautiful mind moment where all of a sudden all the little pieces. Sam Carson. Sam Carson.

Like Walter Fungerson. Yes. Walter Fungerson, obviously. Oh, dear God. Of course, that's a harsh name. Oh, of the Pawnee Fungerson. Okay, great. Well, he was awesome.

I'm so glad. Thank you, Sean. Thank you, Sean. Because he deserves that shot. Yeah, that's amazing. Big time. Well, thank you, Sean. He deserves that shot. Big time. Well, thank you, Sean. But thank you, Norm, for being with us today.

Thanks for inviting me, guys. It was fun to watch this episode again and get to talk about it. This was so great. I said to Greg, because I told you about the, we had lunch and then we were talking about King of the Hill. And I said, dude, I love that show so much. I would do a voice for free.

And he goes, really? I go, oh, maybe I spoke too so much. I would do a voice for free. And he goes, really? I go, oh, maybe I spoke too soon. But I would. I truly would. Just give me the minimum. Yeah, just whatever. Whatever I have to do. Anyway, so good luck with all that.

Norm is all over the place. He's a busy, busy man. You're incredibly talented. Thank you so much for coming here. Means the world to us. Yes. Thanks for having me, guys. One of the great guys I've ever had a chance to work with.

Yay. So thank you, Norm. Thank you, everyone, for listening. If you've got a question for us on future town halls, I know we didn't get to one today, but we always love doing town halls. Send them to us.

You can email at parksandrecollectiontownhallatgmail.com. Text this episode to your group chat. Give us five-star reviews wherever you're listening. Give us 10-star reviews if that place will allow it. Petition them to give 10-star reviews and give us the first. And if you hate us, you know, listen just out of hate. Whatever works.

Whatever works. Yes. Thanks to, as always, our amazing team of Sean and Joe. Thank you again, Norm. Thank you, Jim. Yay. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Greg. And from all of us here at Parks and Rec Collection, goodbye from Pawnee. Bye.

This has been a Team Coco production.