Parks and Recollection - Rob Lowe: The Trial of Leslie Knope (S4E9)

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

Our friend and (former host of this very podcast!) Rob Lowe joins Jim O’Heir and writer Greg Levine once again to discuss the wonderful world of Pawnee! This week, we’re talking S4E9: The Trial of Leslie Knope. They discuss Rob's viral 9-1-1: Lone Star moment, the evolution of Chris Traeger’s character, the amazing Helen Slayton-Hughes (better known to Parks fans as court stenographer Ethel Beavers), the power of specificity in comedy, and a very important revelation about Jerry Gergich's birth name! Give it a listen - and treat yo’ self!Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail] and we might answer it on the show!

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pits we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on little podcast, spread your wings and fly Welcome back everybody to Parks and Recollection. I am one of your hosts, Jim O'Hare, though most people, you know, call me Dammit Jerry or Gary or Larry or Terry, even Barry from Johnny Karate. And sitting next to me is the people, you know, call me dammit, Jerry or Gary or Larry or Terry, even Barry from Johnny Karate.

Uh, and sitting next to me is the man, the myth, the Greg Levine. Today is like a super exciting day for a couple of reasons. Number one, we have a, it's so weird to call him a special guest because technically we're guests in his presence. I know. So this is a weird feeling. I will say, cause well, that's fair. It's Rob Lowe. It's. I know. This is a weird feeling, I will say. It's Rob Lowe, people.

It's Rob Lowe. It's me. It's Rob Lowe. It's Chris Traeger in his house. He's in the house. And also, we are in person together. This is exciting. This is super exciting. In all of the Parks and Rec elections we've done. Well, we've been doing them in person. This is our first one with you.

In person. Yeah. So, wait a minute doing them in person. This is our first one with you in person. Yeah, yeah. So wait a minute, you're telling me that when you guys got the reins, you were like, let's get in the room. We didn't want to do that with Lo around. I kind of, that was in my contract. We didn't want to say there was something about,

but we welcome you here. Now we're thrilled. You know, we've set up some borderline, you know, we've talked to your people. You can't touch me anymore. I mean, there's certain things that we've figured out. Anymore. Anymore.

That's a very important extra word from Jim is the anymore. I think that is. You know, people, you know, think of, you know, you're basically my doppelganger. And so there's a lot of confusion when Chris Traeger and Jerry are on screen together. Yes, there is. Who's who? See, my problem, Jim, is that every time we've been in studio together,

I keep thinking it's Rob. And when I find out it's you, I'm incredibly disappointed. Yes. I will be honest, when I found out it's me, I'm very disappointed. Every morning.

I will look in the mirror every day and go, oh, this is just sad. Every morning you wake up, is it me? Is it Rob? And it's just you, Jim O'Hare. Yes, it is just Jim O'Hare. Well, this is so exciting to be together today.

It really is. Especially because we have perhaps, I don't know about you, Jim, one of my favorite Chris Traeger, Rob Lowe episodes in the run with Rob. Today, we're talking about The Trial of Leslie Knope, written by Dan Gore and Mike Schur they did one together and directed by

25 episode Parks and Rec director Dean Holland it's it is just it is top top tier stuff here

this is this is the A this was the A team okay now Rob you're gonna now hear what I'm about to say is why they hate me around here oh boy

I'm about to switch everything up. Okay, do it. Because I have to say something first. Everybody out there, our boy Greg had a baby boy named Otis, and I just want to say congratulations. Oh, thank you. And I think that's super important to mention. Oh, thank you. Because when he sounds terrible today, it's because he's tired.

That's why today. That's your excuse today I'm very very very in love and very very very tired and it's wonderful well I've seen pictures and he's beautiful and congrats congrats and the other thing I have to bring up because

I was what is the term disturbed so on an episode Rob as you know busiest man in showbiz, does so many shows, and he's got a show with his son, and he's got Lone Star. So, on Lone Star,

there's a scene where you are running into a man who's been in some sort of cryogenic machine. Yes. Okay. And this isn't giving anything away. Can I say what this is? No, no, no.

Frozen self-solid. Yeah. Frozen self-solid. So whatever. So I'm watching and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they get him on the ground and you guys are coming in and you're going to try to save the man's life. You do a chest compression and your body falls through his.

He crumbles. Yeah. My hands go right into his frozen cavity, his frozen solid. Dude, I'm never shocked by stuff. That got me. Just because I didn't see it coming. I didn't, if I had, I'd be like, oh, maybe that's good. Never saw that coming.

And it really. And they did it to a real person. So each time, each take, someone died. How many takes did you do? Did they have a bunch of. Ironically, we only did it once. I was so down with, I knew what we were doing. It's funny how viral that moment became. You never ever... We've done so many rescues and the point of our show is that it's a can you believe

that type of procedural. And so the bar is high and this one went way over the bar. It went way... But in a cool... Yeah, yeah. When I'm shocked at television, like I've sat in movies and been like, wow, wow, wow. Television doesn't normally shock me. I enjoy it. I love it. Yeah. It shocked me. Yay.

Thank you. I had to, because I haven't seen you since. Thank you. I take that. For both of you, when you get a script and you open the pages and you say, what's happening this time? Yeah. and you open the pages and you say, what's happening this time?

You must have those moments like, oh, I get to do this, or I'm shocked by this stunt for you that's happening now. And did that happen for Parks too? And was there an episode that comes to mind that all of a sudden you're like, oh my God, look what I get to do today. Well, for me, it's super,

I'll never forget the day I was talking to Amy and I said, today, this is one day, and this is a future episode, but diehard fans will know what day this was. I begin the car with Amy in a limo, and then I get lifted by these centurions, I guess they're called, the guys that lift the royal whatever. And then I go in a hot air balloon. Like what job in this world is that a day? Like, that was a day in my life on Parks and Recreation.

Forever. You'll have this memory. Well, forever because the whole, oh, and a choir was singing to me. It's just absolutely, there's no other business like it. Now, and then, of course, sometimes you read something you have to do and you're like, oh, hell, that's going to suck. business like it. Now, and then, of course, sometimes you read something you have to do and you're like, oh, hell, that's going to suck. Especially

after, like, take five or six. Like, ugh. I always liked working with Champion, the three-legged dog, because I loved that dog so much. Loved him. And they, you know, inevitably, he had to lick Chris Traeger everywhere, and they

would put peanut butter behind my ears. There's something put peanut butter behind my ears. There's something about peanut butter behind your ears. Like I'm down with everything, and I love dogs. I've got a thousand of them, and they lick me all the time. So I'm not grossed out by that, but the peanut butter behind the ear thing is bleh. Yeah, especially because you get that scent.

You get the wafting of the peanut butter. It's not front and center, but you know exactly. It's coming from the wrong place. Yeah, you want it in front of you. And Jim is going to give us a little blurb. This is where I get to read. Things come to a head for Leslie and Ben when Chris brings Leslie up on ethics charges for her relationship

with Ben. Leslie vehemently defends her actions with the help of Ann, Ron, April, Andy, Donna, Tom, and Jerry, who appear as witnesses. With extra special support from the one and only Ethel Beavers. Yay, Ethel Beavers. You know she passed. I did know.

She was 90. How old was she? 90-something. Yes. 92. She used to send me emails. And this is after the show was over. Hi, Jim.

I just wanted to let you know what I was up to. And one of the last gigs she did was in Atlanta, and she said, they're treating me like a queen. And it just warmed my heart so much. And I feel like it was a Wayans film. I could be wrong about that. But she was so, so, so excited. And she started in this business late. And she—and then you have, you know, this is behind the scenes stuff. She also sent me an email because we had all together sent her flowers.

And Amy went and visited her on Christmas Eve once. I mean, this is who Amy Poehler is. Big shock. You know, just not a shock at all. That's who Amy is. Anyway, it's sad. But boy, does she nail it in this episode. I mean, she's in one C story in the season three episode.

The fourth works on the fourth floor. And then all of a sudden, she's in 11 episodes of Parks and Rec. And we've talked about this before. She came because of a scene stealing scene. Oh, my God. A scene stealing scene in a West Wing episode in Privateers in season four. And she plays Marion Coatsworth Hay. And I remember there was a part, and Mike Shore and I both are huge fans of the show.

And we were thinking, who could this be? And the conversation came up, what about Marion Coatsworth Hay? And she was so good that she stuck around for 11 episodes of parks and rec oh and it's a great lesson um that you're never too old to start your career in hollywood yes you never are yeah and in fact in some ways it's an advantage because a lot of people get tired give up do whatever and then you into that, an age group that there aren't that many actors. I mean, there are, you know what I mean? Who are, who have the fast ball and want to do it and are still doing it. So in, in, in many ways it can almost be an advantage to being older. And I think it's particularly tough for women to start younger because it's

just a, it's a tougher business for women. I just, it is what it is. Like I, as I got grayer, I got busier. There's just a fact. Cause I got gray at 30 and I started at first dyeing my hair and I just looked terrible. Anyway, they're like, oh, screw this. I don't care. Whatever.

Boom. All of a sudden I'm a doctor. I'm a lawyer. I'm a, you know, dentist. Super interesting. Shockingly interesting. Yeah. So yeah. So now I parents proud. Shockingly interesting. Yeah. So,

yeah. So, now I pump in the gray. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. No, it's worked.

Great. It's worked. I'll start now. Start now. I won't. You won't. Not doing it. I defy.

Not doing it. I defy time. Not going down that road. Nah, gone dot. Yes. If you ever want to meet a person who's defied time,

it's Rob Lowe. It is Rob Lowe. Yes. So, we talked about it. This episode is written by Mike Shore and Dan Gore, and it's also a rare episode, not just because of that, but it features only one main storyline. It is totally free of subplots.

Yeah, how many did we do over the years? Did we ever do another one-story episode? I don't think so. I think we've done, like, there's an episode later on with an Andy on cable access that kind of feels like this. But this one with an A story like this with Leslie, it's very rare,

very hard to do because you have to have pretty much one room and one story sustain everybody for this long. But I think it's because it involved the Venn diagram overlap of two big things, which is her run for office and what's going to happen to her if this trial doesn't go well and her job and this

emotional romantic storyline with Ben, right? So those two things are so pivotal that I found myself being involved in her journey because of it. I think it helps. I think it makes perfect sense. I enjoy a good episode that dispenses with B and C stories from time to time. Yeah, I like it too. It's rare, though, in the sitcom. Rare anywhere. Yeah.

Right. It's rare for comedy. It's hard to sustain comedy that way, right? Yeah. Well, let's talk about the comedy because I think we did sustain it, and I think it is incredible. Yep. And in our synopsis, we begin.

Leslie and Ben reveal their romantic relationship to Chris, who reluctantly launches a full investigation and prepares an ethics trial for the two of them, with Leslie's trial beginning first. Chris regrets having to prosecute Leslie and Ben and fights his depression and sadness by taking an obscenely large amount of herbal medicine and supplements. Leslie admits to the relationship to the ethics committee at the courthouse, but insists she never did anything unethical. It's almost a version of Chris Traeger that we started with and immediately pivoted away from.

Yes, I was saying the exact same thing. Right? It's that version of Chris who seems warm and cuddly. Mike shared a great thing about Chris early on, the early description that we pivoted away from, which is Chris can be so charming and upbeat that he can fire you and you come away from the meeting not realizing you've been fired. And we would dispense.

Well, they broke up with Ann and she had no idea. That's right. Perfect example. Yeah. So in this, it's kind of that thing of Chris going totally by the rules of like, I don't want to do this, but I kind of have to. And you can hear it in the script. Every so often, Chris has a line of like, I don't want to do this, but I kind of have to. And you can hear it in the script every so often. Chris has a line of like, these aren't my rules, Leslie. Like, this is what we have to hold ourselves to this higher standard.

And I was thinking about the show. Every time we tried to create a quote unquote bad guy in the main cast, in the office, bad guy in the main cast, in the office. It was very hard because of the wholesome, lovely attitude that began to permeate Parks and Rec, right? Ron, I think, was supposed to be that stumbling block for Leslie. And even in his stumbling block-ness, he is wonderful and sweet. And then we started pivoting and we'd have the townspeople be the bad guy.

Sweetums became the bad guy, right? The people who are going to tear down townspeople be the bad guy. Sweetums became the bad guy, right? The people who are going to tear down a gazebo become the bad guy. And then here comes Chris Traeger and Ben White, who are supposed to be the bad guys from the government. And they're wonderful and wholesome. You couldn't hate either one of them. But every so often, and it came down to Chris, Chris had to be the rule, right? Like, these are my rules. I'm the ultimate person in charge here.

And you had to play kind of the bad guy in this episode. This one more than any other episode, I think. For sure. As far as you being a hard ass. Yeah, for sure. But what's so great is, specifically, you know, we rewatch these to remind ourselves of all. But you, it's killing you. It's killing you. And you see, it's killing you that you have to be the hard ass. And when you

are shoving down every little thing in your mouth to try to make it all better with a smile on your face, it's really, it's lovely to watch. Very lovely. I loved the, I forgot about this joke, this smearing of the wax or whatever on the gums. On the gums. Right? Which is like, I'm injecting this as quickly as possible

into my body. Yeah. I need the pain to go away as quickly as I possibly can. I'm numb with happiness. Pretty much. And the smile never left your face.

I think it's also the beginning of exploring Chris' mental health. Is this the beginning of exploring Chris' mental health. Is this the beginning of that? Happy, sad, crying? Yeah, because we're going to very quickly in season five start to see Chris have pretty much a downfall. You're going to have a cry fits all of a sudden and start to see a therapist. And I think you start to see the fact that this person struggles.

Yes, this was the beginning of that, which for me as the actor, when we were talking earlier about when you get scripts and go, I get to do this, I get to do that. When I, I remember getting this script and going, ah, all right, I've got to carry the story of being the bad guy.

So, do you know what I mean? I'm like, really? But then on the other side of it, there was a new element to the character that you guys came up with, which is this internal issue that then we milked and milked and milked, and it eventually led to me seeing Dr. Richard Nygaard in Seasons to Come. It's one of my favorite things ever. I think we've talked about this on the pod, and we're going to get to it when we get to your, or Chris's

time with Dr. Richard Nygaard, but perhaps one of the pitches that made me laugh personally, and a few other writers especially in the room, was that when we would meet one day Dr. Richard Nygaard, there were all these pitches. Who could it be? What stunt casting could it be? The funniest idea, I thought, was that Chris Traeger was Dr. Richard Nygaard. There were all these pitches. Who could it be? What stunt casting could it be? The funniest idea

I thought was that Chris Traeger was Dr. Richard Nygaard. I knew that which makes me laugh too. I never heard that. It's so funny to think about almost like... I love that. It's like we had our own little Breaking Bad kind of reveal at the end of the day. Like, who is this person?

You think it's... No, it's... It makes you, like, in a usual suspect's way think back to the whole, like, who is this person? And you think it's going to... No, it meets you like in a usual suspect's way. Think back to the whole journey. My mind is kind of blown by that, you guys. We were very, very, very close to doing that. Oh, wow.

I think it was... I think it decided ultimately it might be one step too far. And does that, as Dan Gore recalled, an invisible weakener, does it make you then change your experience of that character's journey? Well,, an invisible weakener, does it make you then change your experience of that character's journey?

Well, like an invisible weakener. Right. That's a great one. It's a great, it's one of the great things I learned from Dan Gore, this idea that it sounds like a great idea. It is a good pitch. You laugh a lot, but if you bear it out, it actually might weaken all these other things that you don't see coming.

I love that. That is a lot to think about. But that's a great insight. I also would like to call out this little bit of hot goss, so to speak, that we get from Chris early on in this episode that Ben usually prefers tall brunettes.

I know. Hard to picture him with a tall brunette maybe because he loves Leslie so much, but... It's very, very hard to picture him like out,

you know, being a man about town. It's hard to picture him being romantic, right? Yes. Yeah, he's so nerdy. Yeah. Yeah, it does seem...

I can't see... I don't see him having game. No. I prefer hot, tall, brunette. And also the notion that Chris is paying attention to that is also super bizarre. Yeah, yeah.

I know him so well, I know exactly his type. Oh, I know his type. Chris is not like the guy who's like, you know, having a beer and watching football and talking about girls either. Yeah. Right. No, I know, his type. I mean, Chris is not like the guy who's like, you know, having a beer and watching football and talking about girls either. Yeah. Right.

No, no, no. Right. How do you talk about Cones of Dunshire and think that's going to get you laid? No. Like, that doesn't make sense. I kind of feel like Ben has been in cryo sleep just waiting for Leslie to come into his life and like, hello, I'm Ben. I'm ready for you.

That's right. So we talked about this, that Chris is in this unlikable position. But I just love the fact that ultimately, you could see that he just still cares about the people around him. He cares about his team. He cares about his job.

But he cares about these people. Which is why there's no, you know, normally if I'm not invested in the characters, I'd be like, well, he'd be in a bit of a dick. You can't ever say that about you because it's killing you inside. It's killing Chris Traeger that you're having to do this, but you also, this is the job. Someone's got to do this and you are the guy. You are the guy. Yep. That's what they pay me for. Get in there and be the guy. Be the guy. In our synopsis, the guy, Chris, intends to prove that Leslie received special treatment from Ben because of their relationship,

that it started earlier than she stated, and that Leslie may even be guilty of bribery. Chris lines up 14 witnesses to defend Leslie, but Chris says it's his job as city manager to prevent corruption. Leslie decides to fight with the help of Ann, Ron, April, Andy, Donna, Tom, and yes, even Jerry. Damn, even Jerry. Speaking of yay. Yes, yay.

What a segue. All right. Leslie's email to Ann after she hooked up with Ben, the ones that she sent, starts, Yay! And it has a fake movie trailer video about her and Ben becoming more than friends. She's elated to have learned iMovie. She cannot wait to talk to her best friend. I mean, that's really sweet.

It's very sweet. It's so sweet. By the way, the iMovie reference is great, too. Yeah. It's like it's very of its time. Yeah. And to be proud the iMovie reference is great, too. Yeah. It's like it's very of its time. Yeah. And to be proud of iMovie. I learned it.

I got it. It's made for idiots. You know, I wrote down a question about that. For that little bit, for the iMovie, do you guys, is that a separate writer's job? Like, did someone else create that separately? The actual iMovie? Yeah. Well, that's why the writers are striking.

They don't want to do fake iMovies anymore. That was the major stumbling block. I don't blame them. They want just movies, no eyes in front of their movies anymore. But I mean, you know, someone had to produce that little movie and... Sure, of course. Yeah. So is that just handed off to somebody or how does that work? I don't know about this one, but generally you'll have a writer of the episode or a writer is assigned to maybe come up with some ideas of what it could be. Or perhaps props and our department or post-production

puts together something and then gets input from Mike and whoever's the writer of the episode. But it takes time to get it. The good thing about

something like that is you don't have to show it in the episode when you record it, right? So you have time until post is done. Interesting. Little BTS, people.

Little BTS. But I was thinking about this little moment. It's sweet. I mean, you get excited about finding a person you like, and you just want to share it with people. There's something very genuine about that. You're like, I got this great news. Now it's Leslie who can't help but go to the extreme.

But I remember watching that and thinking, I've done that. I had that first kiss or that date that goes well and you're driving home and you call a person or whatever. You want to share it with your people. Well, that's the calling card of Parks and Recreation is the sweetness and the proud way in which this series never shied away from sweetness and niceness. And, you know, here, here we are, however many years later, and this is not the comedy that people, people aren't making this kind of comedy. Everything's edgy, boundary pushing, you know, provocative. And Parks and Recreation, as time goes by, feels quainter and quainter and quainter and quainter and quainter. It's almost feeling like the fucking Dick Van Dyke show.

It's because of what's, what currently is passing as comedy. So many people have told me it's their comfort show. Because a lot of new shows, really, you're not comforted by it. You're so like on edge and everything. Parks can be on in the background. You've seen every episode. You know these characters. You know the love they have for each other. And it's just comforting. And I love that because I love shows that I have in my head that are my comfort shows, which actually Dick Van Dyke is one of them. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And so I love that somehow I ended up on a show that has that effect for people. I saw an article not too long ago about the cringiness now of Parks and Rec that people

are like, it doesn't hold up because you can watch, not the awkwardness, but the awkwardness in perhaps the naivete of look how sweet and wonderful people are. There's a cringe factor in watching that. It doesn't hold up to the 2023 world we all live in. And I found myself thinking this writer, I think, has such a myopic view perhaps of what life should be. Actually, it should be heartwarming and it should be optimistic and tell you what can be possible. Our comedy doesn't have to be people at extreme odds.

And life doesn't have to be with people at extreme odds. We don't have to have polar energies when it comes to our debates. Life can be a little bit like Parks and Rec. Yeah, that writer, whoever wrote it, and I didn't see it, but with that take on it, I don't need to see it because I could write it. I know exactly what that take would be like. And it's like, and she brought a birthday cake to him in the office. How dare she, right?

Do you know what I'm saying? As opposed to a severed head. Right. Yeah. Which was really interesting. Right. Or daring. No, that's not what politics is like.

But I think what the show is saying is that things can be like this if we all try to make it like this. Yes. In this little bit we're talking about, we have our Parks Department team showing up for Leslie, testifying for her. And it's this great comedy run, this great, like Greg Danziger, this great Killing Field thing.

We're going to have this comedy game where Leslie's on trial and her best friends and co-workers are going to come to her defense and each one gets to both show up oddly in support of Leslie and doing what they do best. Right? April going to an extremes yelling at us. Beavers did it! It's Beavers!

Auntie is aloof and doesn't know what the hell is going on at all. Tom defends her when they're talking about pretending she was dating. They were actually never dating

and calls her his older sister's elderly aunt. I have to say, and we're watching, watching Leslie and Tom kiss, I was uncomfortable

just because, yuck. I think it's supposed to be. Oh, I was really uncomfortable. Now, that's a cringe factor that was intended. Oh, it worked. It was cringe. Yeah.

Just because Tom and... No, no, no, no. Like I said, this would be a question maybe for another episode. I still can't... Shudder. Tom dated Anne. We're going to get there very soon, buddy. I know, so I'm not going to say much, but I have my thoughts on that.

So we'll get there down the road. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Because I have my thoughts. Yeah, it's'll get there down the road. Yes, yes, yes. Because I have my thoughts. Yeah, it's like a reality show that at some point everybody was updating everybody, right? That's right. Well, I think it's great. I love Donna.

I love Donna knowing just by sight if a motel room has been ravaged sexually. She's such a sexual being. It's so great. She's like, mm-mm-mm. What a weird party trick she has. Like, oh, that one has, that one hasn't. Well, she has like a blue light. It's so great. She's like, mm-mm-mm. What a weird party trick she has. Like, oh, that one has, that one hasn't. Well, she has like a blue light in her mind. Yeah.

Oh, I think she's a freak. I know what's on that bedspread just by looking at it. This is Donna Meagle. Oh, God. And I think Donna has thought about everyone's sex life except for Jerry's. I think he has. How about I go the other way? I go the other way with that.

I think Jerry's the number one person she's thought of. Oh! I think that's a hot take. I could see that happening. They're so close. Really? Mm-hmm.

She wants to know what's going on in that bedroom? I'm telling you. I think she's like, you know, she's into uniqueness and she wants to go where nowhere else has gone before.

Oh, that is a hot take. She wants to be surprised. Wow. Wow. Okay. We're going to save you, dear listener, and not keep talking about that topic. Yeah, Jerry's sex life is a little. Yeah.

But we know what's going on. Yep. We know a doctor confirmed what's going on with Jerry, so it's all good. Our synopsis. Leslie successfully proves that she never received special treatment from Ben, and their relationship did not begin earlier than she stated. However, Chris has one final witness, George Williams, the maintenance worker that witnessed Ben and Leslie kissing at Little Sebastian's Memorial.

Since they gave him a spa gift certificate in exchange for his silence, Leslie and Ben technically bribed him. So I'm watching this, Rob, and I'm thinking back to episodes of our podcast past, talking about sometimes the very mundane, nuanced rules and how there is this like kind of gobbledygookness to it. Like, oh, what's the rule? And you can't have, you can't drink on the courtyard. But yeah, yeah.

You kind of needed it here, right? Yes. And there's something about, I know it's small. I know you did this thing. I know you did it because a million other things were happening

at Little Sebastian's Memorial. But you bribed a guy. Yeah. And that's not okay. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And there was no preplanned bribe.

That literally happened at the moment. They were caught. She had a gift certificate and she used it. So it wasn't like, I mean, it was a bribe, I guess. It was a bribe in as much as anybody will ever bribe anybody on Parks and Rec. Yes, yeah. For Parks and Rec, I guess it was a bribe. And this may sound like, this may be a spoiler,

but it does feel like, with our knowledge of the coming episodes, this kind of feels like one of the last storylines we did where the rule-breaking hinged on such a, perhaps what feels like such a small crime. Right. Right. Things get a little more extreme. She winds up being on city council. We have big characters coming in who she's going to be on council with who have big things and big drama

and all this stuff. There are things with Eagleton to come and more and more. This feels still like kind of small ball and maybe at this time it feels like, oh, Parks has gone away from this. This was season one stuff. But Parks always had, as a calling card,

the comedy of the mundane, which I love that stuff. Like, you know, I think there's probably a whole genre about it where people take the tearing down of a gazebo, not a big building or a work of art. It's somebody's gazebo. You know, like that everybody over-invests in things that are outscale. Great point. Is always been a calling card. Yeah.

And the comedy of specificity, right? Yeah. Absolutely. And the more specific you are, the more you get to have fun with it, I think, because you get to just add joke and joke and joke that is specific to this world that you've created. Yep, exactly. You guys are so smart. Oh, no. So smart.

And every so often, we want to bring someone like you who isn't. Exactly. I'll just blurt something out and we move forward. Just make us feel a little smarter than we already are. You should appreciate me. Right. It'll just blurt something out and we move forward. Just make us feel a little smarter than we already are. You should appreciate me. Right. It's the humility about people. More than you do is a matter of fact. I want to talk about

Ron Swanson's time on the stand. Because it has two incredibly specific Ron things. He gets a double whammy. First is the outing of his address. Which we learned at the very top of the episode

is the scariest thing Ron can ever deal with. He had no idea what is going on out there. He's getting things on his computer that he doesn't know why he's getting them. And then April comes in and says, well, these cookies cause this and this. And then she says to him, Google your address. Yeah. And then the world ends.

The world ends for him. He throws his computer away like that. That solved my problem. It's really funny. It's particularly good Ron Swanson. So already, Leslie's getting him all riled up, saying his address to get it on the record. And he

keeps trying to bleep it out. Right? It's so, yeah, it's so stupidly funny. Yeah. And then he smells her. Amazing.

He smells Tammy too. The look. Yes. I think he talks about I can smell the sulfur coming off her cloven hooves. Amazing.

In the official record now of Bonnie City Council. It's one of my favorite Ron Swanson moments of the entire life of the series. It's wonderful. First of all, you know, Nick is just, he's brilliant as Ron Swanson. But he's in this meeting and it's whatever. And then it hits him. And do you remember him running off?

Oh, he ran off. He ran off. He ran off. He knows the demon is there. It was the same run that we remember him running off? That smell is there. Oh, he ran off. He ran off. He ran off. He knows the demon is there. It was the same run that we see from him in the beginning of the season when he grabs his go bag and he runs off. You're like, are we not going to see Ron again for 180 days? Tammy's here.

I got to get the hell out of here. So good. And that brings me to our conversation that started this. This is an A-story only episode. And how do you sustain it? You create opportunities like this. You get Tammy to come in who's just gonna

do a silly comedy game, right? She has no point. She doesn't alter the plot whatsoever. It allows Chris to say, you know, you're on the record, and I will, like, terminate your con. Pretty much I'll fire you if you lie and all that. You could be prosecuted and all this stuff.

She's like, no, I'm good. Good luck, Leslie. And that's a minute. Yeah. I remember that very specifically, Megan coming in and just crushing it. That's what she does. She's a killer. She's a murderer.

Absolutely. And she just was, it was so fun to just sit back and watch her do her thing. Yeah. And it's so, like you said, it's so quick. She sits, ba-ba-ba. She thinks she's going to just screw over Leslie. You set the tone. Well, here's what's going to happen.

Okay, bye-bye. All good. Out the door. Brilliant. Yeah. That's brilliant writing. Brilliant performance. No, it's so fun to have her.

And I'm sure everyone knows this. I don't have to say this, but that's Megan Mullally, who is Nick's wife. That's right. In real life. Yeah. I think everybody knows that. Well, let's keep going because this story has more twists to come. Because in our synopsis, we realize, realizing her job is at stake.

Leslie and the Parks Department scramble to find a loophole in the law. But Ron advises Leslie just to admit guilt. Leslie does admit she bribed the maintenance worker to commit to the committee, but her punishment is only a two-week paid suspension. Chris reveals that Ben called a private meeting, took full responsibility for the bribe, and resigned as assistant city manager. No.

I know it's sad, right? We don't want that. I know. Dear listener, it's great for you because we have an episode or two coming where Ben's going to hit rock bottom. Really rock bottom. And this moment in his journey is absolutely worth it for the comedy to come from him. Some of the best stuff

you'll ever see from Adam Scott on Person Wrecked. building up to, I don't know, man. I have a lot of favorite moments, but this, this ignites the flame.

Yes. For Ben. That becomes one of the greatest episodes of comedy I think has ever been made. Yeah, so, and,

and, yeah, so if you see this moment in concert with the stuff to come for Ben, it's totally worth it, but it's sad. It is sad. And yet in Parks fashion, what I love about Parks,

I mean, so many millions of things I love about Parks. We were, they were allowed to come together. We didn't, it wasn't, well, they won't,

they for five seasons, the love is declared. And what a beautiful, I mean, he gave up his career for Leslie. He gave it all up. I mean, not knowing, I'm sure he thought he'll get something else, but I'm just saying he gave up this job that he's been doing for Leslie. Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of couples, someone giving up their job.

I don't know. Yeah. That's a big deal. Right. Especially in their nascent stage or the early days. Yes. There have been no I love you's at this point, correct? Well.

I know, but. But no. He made this choice not having to clear this. They are not in that space together. Right. They're not, you know, they may be right on paper, but they're not a fish. Yeah. Yeah.

No, no, no. Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful. Well, I think since we're talking about it, let's just go right into it. Because after the trial, Chris apologizes to Leslie and explains he was just doing his job and tells her that Ben said something during the meeting that she would want to hear. Ethel Beavers reads Leslie the transcript, revealing that Ben has no regrets about losing his job because he loves Leslie.

There it is, Jim. There's the declaration given by Ethel Beavers. Leslie goes on record to say the same thing and has let Ethel read it to Ben out loud later that night. And in the episode's tag, we learn. I mean, this could be a whole hour of conversation. In the episode's tag, we learn that Jerry's real name is actually Gary Gergich.

Gary Gergich. It's an amazing move. Yeah. It's an amazing move. Brilliant. I mean, I wish I could say it was planned, right? From like the- From the beginning.

No, because the sound of the name Gary Gergich actually sounds better than Jerry Gergich. It does. Right? Yeah, yeah. That hard G repeat. Sure. Yeah, yeah. But no, and it just works. And this is the beginning of perhaps the downfall in that here's a comedy game of

a new name. Of a new name, yeah. And it's gonna keep going. And I ended up with five. Five names. Yeah. Over in one series. Five names. For one forgettable character. One forgettable character. And I love that. You son of a bitch. Yeah, I want to.

Shut this thing down. We're going at it. Baby or not, I don't care. New baby or not. That happened to a friend of mine. He was a young movie executive. And they put him finally on the Clint Eastwood account

at Warner Brothers. And it's a conference call in those days. And he's in his early 20s. This is the first time they were meeting Clint Eastwood, first time on the Clint account when Clint was Mr phil and and and my friend bill went yes yes and and from then on clint thought it was phil that's literally the it's gary that's it you don't correct him okay he's the boss yeah he's the boss yeah and that's how jerry jerry was not a he was not a rule breaker. He didn't shake up things. He did what he was told.

And if a man called him Jerry, then good enough. Yeah. Good enough. I mean, we talked about this. I was named Pierre for four years at Parks and Rec, right? Because Greg Daniels didn't want two Gregs in the writer's room. And he said there was a bit about my dad wanted to name me Pierre. I thought it was a joke.

And I was Pierre for four years. And it's something really strange that you think, I'll be okay with this. Yes, right? I'll be okay with occasionally someone calling me not my name. It really does get to you. I bet your Bill, it got to Bill. Yeah. He was Phil for a while.

It had to. Yeah. Is this Phil? People ask me all the time, what is your favorite name out of the four or five? It's Jerry. Just because it's how it began. It's how I auditioned. It was Jerry.

So for me, that is the thing. But your hardcore, hardcore fans insist on calling me Gary because that is his real name. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, yeah. Oh, they don't play around. There's no playing around with the, you know. That's amazing. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, yeah. Oh, they don't play around. There's no playing around with the, you know. That's amazing. I love that.

Yeah. It's Gary to a lot of people. You've earned your name. Yeah. And the look that Chris Traeger has and the shock that both Chris and Leslie have about this knowledge. I love this moment. Dude, I have it in my notes. You're like, yeah, this is a one.

We need a five minute break. It's a two second cut to Chris. notes. You're like, yeah, this is over. We need a five-minute break. It's a two-second cut to Chris. Yeah. And you are just, you're looking down. You're apoplectic. He couldn't be dumber. Like, you're just, whatever is going through your head, it's such a quick little clip of people.

Go back to the episode. Take a look at Chris Traeger when he realizes I have the wrong name. It's genius. It really is. I have it written down. You have the wrong name. It's genius. It really is. I have it written down. You have it written down. That's awesome. Do you know what cracks me up also?

This is the Chris who dated Jerry's daughter. Daughter. Yes. Right? Who's so shocked about it. And there's something about Chris's character

jumping on the bandwagon almost about Jerry because you don't see it too often. But for Chris to also be blown away by this, it's like, I can't handle this. Yeah.

We need five. Well, yeah. Particularly at this stage in the episode, after everything that has gone on that is so insane, and it is insane, don't get me wrong,

but that that's, that's the breaking point for Chris Trader. I know, I know. That's the breaking point. Yeah, yeah. And know, I know. That's the breaking point. And Leslie's literally, Gary, Jerry, Gergen, they're both awful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thank you, Leslie. So let's end on this sweet note about Leslie and Ben have declared their love through the dulcet tones of Ethel Beaver. Yes. And I just wanted to call out that sometimes an idea is pitched in the writer's room that's so fun,

you make sure it happens in the script, right? That in effect, the story becomes anchored by an idea rather than maybe sometimes you have an episode that has to be a little more flexible. You see what works, what isn't working, and the story winds up coming out on its own natural evolution.

But every so often, there's like, we're going to do this. We're going to make sure someone goes off in a hot air balloon or we're going to make sure that Ethel Beavers is the one who says out loud, I love you to Ben and I love you to Leslie. And so kind of this episode was kind of built around and born around a trial and this declaration by Ethel. And it works. Yeah, totally works.

The ending when she goes to his house, Ethel's in the car. And the other thing I want to give a shout out to the art department. Did you see that set up with the snow and the grounds and the house? I mean, they really, because a lot of times, you know, we know most things are shot. If it's snow, it's fake. I thought it looked really great. And I thought the snow coming down, I really, I was... Yeah, and then that's probably September, the hottest time of the year in LA. Yes!

Yeah, crazy. I was really impressed with it. I think it looked great. Yep. We talked about gifts, parties, and jobs. We got a sad one. We talked about it. Ben loses his job in this one, but we talked also good things coming for him. Final thoughts on the episode. Guys, what do you think?

How are you feeling? I'm feeling good about it. I think it's a super satisfying episode and it sets up so much. I mean, this was like, every once in a while, you have to do a storytelling reset to get to new places.

And this is a very good example of one of those. That's a great point. Yeah. It's another great episode. You'll hear me say this all the time because I've said it. Every week I would leave a table read and go, how the hell did they do it again? I don't know how they've done this. And yet they've done it week after week.

Should I do my – I do this thing called crap I forgot to say. Yeah. It's really important. And should I do those moments now that I have written? Please, give us the crap. There's just some great moments. Marcus Everett Langley photo, the stone-faced man on the wall. It's just literally dynamite blew up his face.

But all of—I've said it before, but all of the murals are just the best things. I never, ever got tired of them. I would, every single day on that set, I would just take a little bit of time because you always saw something new you didn't see before. Yeah, 100%. And we have a fun fact about that, that the portrait on the wall is actually a retouched 1859 self-portrait of Jean-Auguste Dominique Ingres. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. So that's someone's face, really? A French painter. Another great moment, Pratt trying to comprehend what Amy is telling him to go do. Always great. Just his confusion and his earnest wanting to help, and he has no idea what she's

talking about. And people watch on YouTube the season four gag reel because there's even more of it, and you see Amy break because she's so blown away by how funny Chris Pratt is at that time. We talked about, I have Rob with the Jerry moment. It's just, wow. And I also like when, there was a moment when, where did I write it down here?

But basically, you're saying, I have some bad news, and Leslie's like, well, don't say it. Just don't say it. Anyway, oh my God. Leslie, when she realizes she's in trouble, I would like to request a 55-day recess. 55 days.

Just anyway. George, what do I have here? April... Again, we talked about April screaming. Ethel Beavers did it. That begins the Beavers' April love, I again, we talked about April screaming, Ethel Beavers did it, is, you just love. Yeah, that begins the Beavers, April love,

I think, if she wants her to be her grandmother, or whatever. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, anything with April losing her stuff. Anyway,

so that's some of the crap I forgot to say. that's Jim's crap. Yeah, that's Jim's crap. Well, guys, this is a special episode. We say about all of them, but it is a special episode. And knowing about Citizen Nope and Comeback Kid and all these great episodes still to come in season four, it's great to have an episode like this that kind of,

yeah, it's a pivot point, right? It does an important thing for our characters, but it also entertains you. It's funny. And it's not just pipe. It's not just exposition to get things going. And it's a starting point for major things for Ben. Yeah.

For Leslie. Yeah, it's a great, great episode. And we're going to be talking about those episodes and so many more with guests like Rob. I hope, please, I think he's going to be with us even more. I insist. I will be here. You never know when.

That's part of the fun is you just never know. You know, but you just don't know. I like it. I like it a lot. We have great guests coming up, too. And obviously with the peak of the Mount Rushmore with Rob Lowe with us. But guys, thank you. And thank you everyone at home for wherever you are in your car, in your plane.

Your treadmill. Your treadmill. Good for you. There's a lot of treadmill. I think there's a lot of treadmill listeners. Sure. I'm not one of them, but sure. Yeah.

I totally get that. Thank you for listening. Text this episode to your group chat. Give us I totally get that. Thank you for listening. Text this episode to your group chat. Give us your five-star reviews wherever you're listening. Thanks to Joanna. Thanks to Sean. Thanks to Rob. Thanks to Jim. Thanks to me. Thanks to Nick. Thanks to everybody.

And goodbye from funny. Thanks, everybody. See you next time. This has been a Team Coco production.