Parks and Recollection - Summer Catalog (S2E20)

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Today in Pawnee we're flipping through another episode as Rob and Alan take on the 20th episode of season 2. In "Summer Catalog" Leslie decides to take Ron and the past directors of the Parks Department out for a picnic lunch, while Tom enlists the help of Ann and Mark to pose for the catalog cover photo. On this pod you'll hear about Rob's first visit to the set, how Mark's story initiated its close, and the unique call back to our previous episode "The Stakeout." Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email: [e-mail] Or leave a 30-Second voicemail at: [phone] While working on the Pawnee summer catalog, Leslie excitedly organizes a reunion between Ron and his three predecessors. She anticipates a joyous occasion and plans to write a letter about it for the catalog. However, none of the four men get along with each other, and all of them are difficult to get along with. One of them (Dakin Matthews) litters repeatedly, treats everybody disrespectfully, and cheerfully says he never gave a damn about the Parks department and only took the job because it had an easy path to job security and a lucrative pension. Another one (Jack Wallace) exhibits a sexist attitude, and tells Leslie she should not be working there due to menstruation issues. The third (Michael Gross) constantly talks about his affinity for marijuana, going so far as to say "I've planted marijuana in community gardens across this city," and particularly clashes with Ron (who forced him out of the position years ago) who cheerfully confirms he screwed his predecessor over and otherwise is his usual detached self. Later, a frustrated Leslie decides she cannot write the catalog letter; she stops treating the former directors with any respect by telling the sexist to shut up and calling them "turds" when she briefly takes a throwaway picture and then walks away from without another word.  Ron takes her out to dinner to apologize, and the two process their mutual respect for each other, and vow they will never grow to hate each other the way the four former directors do. Ron even tells Leslie that he wants her to take over his Parks Director position if he becomes Pawnee's City Manager. However, Ron cheerfully says in an interview that one of his first acts as City Manager would be to eliminate the Parks department, while Leslie gives an equally upbeat interview where she says one of her first acts as City Manager, were she to leapfrog Ron for the job, would be to double the department's size.Tom is tasked with taking the cover photo of the summer catalog, and convinces Ann and Mark to pose for photos at a community park. Tom is repeatedly frustrated with Ann, who has a difficult time appearing happy. When the photos are finished, Ann agrees that she looks miserable and asks that the pictures not be used. Mark appears concerned that Ann's unhappiness is a reflection of their relationship. She insists everything is fine, but he is unconvinced. Meanwhile, April and Andy appear to be growing closer. After helping Leslie set up her picnic, Andy asks whether April wants to get drinks after work, and she agrees. However, when they arrive at a bar, the bouncer easily notices April is underage, and her identification confirms she is 20. April tells Andy they can go to another bar, but Andy decides to go home instead, seemingly uncomfortable about their age difference. April is visibly disappointed, but does not convey it to Andy. Later, the summer catalogs arrive, with a photo on the cover of April and Andy appearing happy together at the picnic.

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's The pits we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast Then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Welcome, everybody. It's Parks and Recollection. I feel so good every time I hear that mouse rat song.

It just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. I hope it does to you too. How you doing, Alan? How you feeling today, Alan? Yang is with us, as always. I'm doing good. Doing good, Rolo. How about yourself?

I'm good. The Rolo is good. The Rolo is rolling. Well, no. That means that I'd be on ecstasy if I said that. If I said Rolo is rolling. It's either that you're on ecstasy or you're leaving the pod, both of which might be possible, but yeah.

Yeah, I'm rolling. Let's bounce. Let's roll, right? Something like that. We got a good one today. This is episode 20, boy, season two. We're getting close to Traeger time. We're getting close to Rob and Adam joining the show.

How fun is that, man? Countdown. This is exciting. I think it's time to start the countdown. I mean, it's like imminent. Yeah. It's a couple weeks away. So, I mean, you could feel the audience excitement in March of 2010 when this aired was palpable

because they knew two handsome men were about to join the show. So, there's a tangible heat in this episode. It's hot. Shall we get into what this one's about? And by the way, what's more hot than summer? And this is Summer Catalog at See the Way. We're professional podcasters. We know how to weave storylines together. This is episode 20 of season two, and it aired on March 25th, 2010, written by Katie Dippold and directed by Ken Whittingham.

Katie, a great, great writer, hasold and directed by Ken Whittingham. Katie, a great, great writer, has been a guest of us before many times. And I'm sitting back and I'm ready for my favorite part of the show, the Alan Yang synopsis. Synopsis. Here we go. Synopsisters and brothers. Here we go. While working on the Pawnee Summer Catalog, Leslie excitedly organizes a reunion between ron and his three predecessors she anticipates a joyce occasion and plans to write a letter about it for the catalog none of the four men however get along with each other and they all have difficult personalities later a frustrated leslie decides she can't write the catalog letter she stops treating the former directors with any respect calls them turds when she briefly takes a throwaway picture then walks away ron takes takes Leslie out to dinner to apologize and vows they'll never grow to hate each other the

way the four former directors do. Tom is tasked with taking the cover photo of the summer catalog and convinces Anne and Mark to pose for photos at a community park. Tom is repeatedly frustrated with Anne who has a difficult time appearing happy. When the photos are finished, Anne agrees she looks miserable and asks that the pictures not be used. Mark appears concerned that Anne's unhappiness is a reflection of their relationship. Meanwhile, after helping Leslie set up her picnic, Andy asks whether April wants to get drinks after work and she agrees. However, when they arrive at a bar, the bouncer easily notices April's 20 years old. Andy decides to go home, seemingly uncomfortable about their age difference. Later,

the summer catalogs arrive with a photo on the cover of April and Andy appearing happy together at their picnic. Lovely episode. Lovely episode. Very heartfelt

by the end there, Rob. Very. Very much so. I feel like this might have been the episode where I first visited Parks and Recreation on location.

Oh, wow. Where'd you go? The snake hole. Okay, right, right, right. And we were preparing for new guys to arrive, and you can kind of tell because Ann and Mark are about to break up, I think is one of the hints, right? It's like they're taking these photos together,

and it feels like, spoiler alert, they might not make it. Yeah, you definitely feel the Brandanowicz era coming to a close. Yeah, he's just in fewer scenes, and it's like he's doing talking heads. I think everything's going good in the relationship, and then Anne is like, I'm unhappy. So I feel like he's gone pretty soon. And then, you know, a couple episodes from now, not to spoil it, but I think you kiss Anne. So I think we know what's going to happen pretty soon. Yeah.

I'm coming in and I'm kissing my way through Pawnee. Immediately. I like the way Leslie compares the summer catalog in Pawnee to Vogue. Yeah, the September issue. This was before that documentary came out. I think there's a great doc called The September Issue, and that's what this is, right? Yeah, and the September issue is the one, because that's where all the Christmas ads come in. That's why September's a thing.

When's the last time you flipped through a Vogue? Because it's been a bit for me, I'll confess. Yeah, and Vogue isn't what it used to be. Like all magazines, they're not what they used to be. They just aren't. They don't occupy the same place in the consciousness whatsoever. And Vogue is just hanging on for dear life. But there was a time when it was like a really, really super big deal. This is a super tangent, but do you think models, again, not to, you know, do you think models ever get upset that these covers are just all celebrities now it's like not it's usually not models like that's something i noticed about perfume ads too

it's like it's always like it's portman or it's like you know yeah um it's famous actors or it's venus williams or something and they're never um they're rarely men like even gq if they can find their way clear would rather have a woman women sell way better on the stands than men do. Rob, always looking out for the handsome men, though. Always. I feel bad for us handsome men. You feel their pain, man. I love that.

But no, it's true because it used to be models. Vogue cover used to always be models, and now it's often just famous people. But you know what? People love famous people, too. Rob, you'll always be a famous person. So you got that going for you. By the way. People love celebrities.

But I'll tell you what. Let me ask you. Okay. How many times do you think I've been on the cover of GQ? I don't know, man. That just feels like a trap for me as your friend. It's a trap. I'm going to say a hundred.

Well, let me ask you this. What year was the first year I was on the cover of gq i would say the 80s it's got to be right how about four years ago wow i mean that's actually incredible gq gq's been around for a long time right so it was around never ever ever ever ever in all the different iterations of my career have i was i ever on the cover of gq until about four or five years ago i mean and i love zach galifianakis but i remember that was the one that made me jump off of dude i love that idea of you picking up gq this is a scene in a movie you picking it up and zach is on the cover that is tremendous content just the look on your face just a single tear

man it's like man zach g made it before me. Zach G, coming out hot. That's pretty funny. I'm 40 years down the road ahead of him. I'm still not on the cover of GQ. I bet if he heard this story, he would laugh too. He would be like, I don't deserve it. Yeah, he's like, I don't deserve it. Listen, but you know, it's like Ty Cobb said,

it ain't bragging if you've done it. The man did it. Yeah, well, you guys are both in the club now. guys are both I finally made it but it made me like the whole obsession with magazines made me laugh because it feels very like of the other of another time that was incredible so it begins it very early in the episode Tom is doing a presentation about the catalog and he opens it by saying i love ads right he's like i he loves magazine ads and you're like wow this is now so dated because if that character existed now he'd be talking about tiktok videos he'd be talking about nfts he'd be talking

about you know promoting stuff on social media in this one he literally is like i love ads and i love my tivo he mentions tivo at some point. It's like, wow, TiVo. That's very specific at the time, right? Remember the noise that TiVo would make? It'd go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Such a pleasant noise. It was a great noise. It was that top six noise in my life.

I gotta tell you, I think noises are, I think the success of 24, and I love that show, but half of it was the noise when they went to the boxes before the commercials. It's of it was the the noise when they went to the boxes yeah before the commercials it's like it was so satisfying i mean you want to talk top tv noises what about law and order like oh my god like that's a that's a top noise top noise all of these were noises on the sound effects alan do. Do you remember in the room? That's right. Yeah.

Again, for those who are uninitiated, there was a soundboard in the writer's room that Greg Levine operated, and he would sometimes play the Law & Order sound or the 24 sound. I want a soundboard for this. Yeah. We got to get going. We got someone we had Ben Schwartz on, and he's got, which we- Oh, yeah. We'll get that.

We need to thread. There's no reason it shouldn't be in almost every episode. It's so funny. My favorite thing was when you started just making Ben Schwartz do Jean-Ralphio sounds so that we could use them. And he was happy to do it. But I was texting with Ben later and I was like, yeah, it's so funny. We have all those sounds from you banked now. We could just play them in the show.

Yeah. That was great. I like when april says can you photoshop your life with better decisions jerry that's a great line that scene yeah it's again sets up the jerry game that we used over and over and over again and also it's you know in many episodes tom is giving a presentation he has a glass of whiskey like he's don draper in mad men and so so like that, like that, we, we, I remember, I specifically remember like saying we should have him do that. Right. Someone in the room was pitching. I'm not saying I pitch it, but like he has that. And then that later on in that

presentation, he has that picture of him looking pensive with a tiny espresso mug in his hand. And we use that photo. I'm not joking. 20 more times in the show. I think it was made for this one. It was like a photo shoot we did. You don't have to do, you know, again, for those of you who don't know, we do like still photo shoots to get those images into the show. So you have to schedule that. So it's a pain kind of. But we had that photo. We just used that photo of Tom over and over and over again for everything.

So I laughed when I saw it because I remembered that photo. and over again for everything so i laughed when i saw it because i remembered that photo tell me about the there was apparently a grammar debate in the writer's room about the spelling of catalog oh my god i'm i'm obsessed with this because this sounds like yeah this this sounds like a dan gore thing or something like well it's the same thing as we talked about possum versus opossum. I mean, we could go off. As we should. We could go off. I think we're going to go off.

So catalog either just ends in log, like the word log, or ends in a catalog with, like, L-O-G-U-E. Where do you come down on this debate? I think I just go simpler. Me too. No U-E. How about you? I feel like, why are people using the ue

that feels british to me or something and i'm not british i yeah i don't need to doff my chapeau we declared our independence from from from the uk thank you yeah we don't need that no get out of here with that spelling greg do you remember what the debate was was it like we should spell with the ue because that seems insane why would we do that i i the debate was? Was it like, we should spell with a U-E? Because that seems insane. Why would we do that? I think it was pretty much just which looked better and which one people wouldn't be so jarred from seeing. Because this goes way back, but in season one for Alan, your episode, Boys Club, we spent like 30 minutes debating

whether or not the apostrophe should be before the Y, after the Y or after the S. It's gotta go after. It's gotta go after. We put them both on screen and stared at them and voted to see which one it should go to. And grammatically, it had to go after the

S, but everyone thought it looked weird. And I think by that point, we had a few grammar debates in the room i mean yes so yeah because because it isn't my mom isn't somewhere that my mom godbrester is so happy that we're having she was an english teacher having this debate because it's not a boys club that is his it's. It belongs to multiple boys. Hence, boys should be plural. And then it's a plural possessive

with an apostrophe after it. This is wheelhouse, man. Can I tell you something, though? Am I wrong? Is there a notion out there in the culture now that this kind of a discussion is not a discussion we should be having because it's so elitist that it's that it's whatever

because i think it's great i love this kind of stuff i think it's fun i will say this if we really want to talk about it i think there's a difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar wait i love i'm learning something now what does that even mean so again this is i'm trying to reach way back i took linguistics a long time ago, but I believe there's a kind of grammar, like a school of thought that people should obey the rules that exist, and I think that's more prescriptivism. Again, I could be wrong on all of this. A linguist is going to write down, write in an incorrectment, everything. But that being said, I believe there's a school of thought that is like, we have rules. This language has rules.

We impose these rules. This is how people speak the language and write and spell and all that stuff. And then the other version is a little more pliable. It's a little like, hey, people's usage changes and we need to flow with it. And that's how language evolves. Otherwise, we'd all be speaking a really primitive form of old English or even beyond that. We'd be speaking. So I kind of am like, look, things change and different things become acceptable like there's definitely changes

and obviously there's new words all the time so why not new grammar rules if that's what people use you know so anyway a great digression we and by the way this is what we do in the room to waste time and just never talk about the show because I would they would be great to just talk about anything other than the show we no one wanted to work and we'd always waste and you know when you're talking about grammar you really want to waste time yeah um i did notice a funny scene where apr and Andy are throwing bread at each other. And it was right next to where we parked. So I just remember that's where we parked our cars.

So if you watch that scene, go back and watch that scene. There's like a Prius in it. So they're by the parking structure. And that's on the CBS Radford lot. Literally, if you turned the camera to the left, you would see the stage where Parks and Rec was shot was shot and you would go in the doors that was where the writing offices were and whatever i remember walking down those stairs at that structure and we're like that's the kind of thing where morgan sag is like oh we could just shoot that right outside and we don't have to pay anything and we just shoot it there and save money it's like okay that that actually works there so yeah i love

that that shows when they really make full usage of not only the sound stage, but the lot, like I was, I had a friend who worked on Alias. Alias, clearly every episode took place in like moments in the Middle East. Then she had to go to Paris and she was underground in mainland China, whatever. It was all, literally all on the Disney lot. And there was one patch, like a triangle of grass, the size that honestly, like if you were an apartment complex you'd be happy to be able to walk your dog to go to the bathroom like we all know what that looks like and that triangle was afghanistan it was vietnam it was miami beach it was it was so funny the way it's amazing pinch a penny and make something work for a location it's like all right we put a mime on the grass it's paris we put a yurt on the grass it's mongolia we put

yeah we put we put anything right it's like yeah it's it just it just works man it's but uh you have to make but by the way this is the challenges of television production like we i had a conversation this morning we're doing a show right now it's like you have trade-offs you have trade-offs and efficiencies and all this stuff it's like okay you want to shoot this expensive location where can we save money elsewhere and shooting on the lot is a huge huge leg up for you because it saves your money for other if you can make it work if it looks at all anything like what you want and you're not sacrificing the look then it's have you ever walked on a lot and seen and been blown away and you go holy crap i'm in hollywood i mean i still

have times like i walk in a lot a lot of times go yeah that yeah whatever good for you trying that whatever and then and then you see somebody using the lot in a way that you just go yeah movie magic is real it's mad it's actual magic i actually feel that way all the time at the Universal lot. So I have an office there just to do writing. And if I'm just writing, thinking, or just taking a walk to clear my mind, you're on the back lot. And not only are they filming stuff, it's the Back to the Future lot. It's all these you know iconic city exactly psycho and and and and then there's also the trams going by so there's there's people

doing the universal studio tour and the thing that really makes me feel sort of really grateful and and you know a little bit emotional it's like i remember going on that tour as a kid because i grew up in southern california so like on birthday, I might get to go to Universal Studios. And there's a portion of the tour where they drive past the bungalows where, you know, the tour guide said, here are writers and producers who make the TV shows and films that you love. I'm like, that's my bungalow now. Like I have a bungalow there. And it's like, that's insane to me. Like that is like, that breaks my brain. And like that, that's when I feel really lucky. And you can't believe that you made it there you know you just can't believe it because i remember when i was seven years old you know i remember when i was doing the west wing walking

in my sam seaborn suit around the corner at warner brothers and all of a sudden i was in like feudal japan and there was tom cruise in the last samurai oh my god like rickshaw's and i thought this is as radical as it gets this yes yes you're like it's it's fantastic that the uh the uh more of the world set and universal is also like that have you been to that set that is like since it's there here it's insane yeah so they so steven spielberg built a down to 747 and it's still up there you can still see it and i think they maybe use it for other shows and movies now but it is enormous and they can light parts of it on fire still and they could it is spectacular if you get to walk through it or you i think the tour goes through it briefly but

um yes i i truly you and i didn't realize this when I was a little younger, I'd always fake location, location, location, location, which is still good, right? You can, whether it's a huge, you know, a magnificent mansion or like a tiny apartment, I was like, you can't fake a location. That was my theory. And this part of me is still like, yeah, that sort of dogma of theory of like, you got to be there. But but i will say having done enough stuff on set and on on stage and all that stuff man you don't know we did the third season of master of none and and we shot it almost entirely on a stage and everyone asked me where that house is everyone asked me where the house is and it's we built the entire thing amy williams our production editor built

the entire house and it's on a stage in london and we were pretending it was upstate new york and nobody knew nobody knew so movie magic all the people all the artisans and craft people and people who who build that stuff is incredible i like to i like to watch things and go soundstage or location and try to guess like yeah like you know i'm obsessed with vikings we've been talking about vikings and And by the way, because the lead is named Rolo. Yeah. I think he's the handsome Skarsgård, one of the bazillion. The Skarsgårds are the Baldwins of Scandinavia. Yes.

Clearly. Yeah, man. There's like a gazillion of them. And one of them, his character's name is Rolo. But I like to go, oh i think i think i think that's actually a fake rain outside that door and that door leads actually to a hallway it's not doesn't lead to the moors of scotland or whatever it's fun to try to try to out outguess the filmmakers yeah and we're getting to a really really wild point in time where if your money if your show

has enough money like the mandalorian or something you go inside an entire volume it's just a 360 green screen and tons of that show i believe i think all of it is is just shot on stage all of mandalorian is shot in a ring of it's not a green screen it's an led screen that they that they can program anything in the world into. And then within the ring, there might be some rocks or some trees or some dirt or whatever. But it's insane. All of Mandalorian, all of it is in a ring.

The entire show. I want to pitch a show where I shoot like that, but I use my ring to just look like a studio backlot. So it's like i'm gonna pay millions of dollars this show has a budget of 200 million dollars but it just photorealistic cbs radford or universal lot just like like okay we'll do it i mean we could just step outside but i'm shooting in the ring uh this season on uh 9-1-1 lone star we're gonna do um we're gonna do 9-11 oh wow i'm gonna I'm going to ask you about that.

My character is a survivor of 9-11. Fireman who survived 9-11. So we're going to do a flashback episode and to do World Trade Center, 9-11, it's so complicated. We're going to recreate the lobby, but it's all

going to be on the ring. I'm really excited to work that way way i've never worked that technology i am very curious about it i i was i was i was lucky enough to chat with john faber recently about how they did mandalorian i'd love to pick your brain after you do it but um speaking of rain by the way the beginning of this episode is they do rain in the courtyard it does not look as good as the mandalorian necessarily i thought it was not like super real I thought it was good though. It does not look super real. It was okay.

So again, that courtyard is inside for outside. You know why? Because the sunlight, they do sunlight super well. Yeah. The sunlight, which also makes the stage baking hot. And it might as well actually be an actual sun for how hot it makes it. The West Wing was the same way.

Whenever we lit the oval with midday sun, by the end of the day, you were just schvitzing. Yeah, and you've got makeup on, right? So it's melting. It's just all over your face. Did you find, because, you know, obviously Tommy Shalami lighting that show, like was it it were the

lighting setups longer than parks is is my guess were they longer there's no lighting in parks well but in fairness though tom del ruth who was the dp on on west wing um did they they lit the set because we just didn't have the time and then the act that the lighting the actors was was an afterthought parks was the same it was like we lit the set and the act it was an afterthought i remember one day when i was like could would it kill anybody to put a bounce underneath me there's no bad and oh we don't do that and i remember polar looked at me i'll never forget it polar looked at me like i love you oh yeah God bless you, Rob Lowe. And I think for the last couple seasons, I could be wrong, and we've got to get Tram or one of the DPs on the show.

Every once in a while, not a lot, but every once in a while, they might give the actors just a smidge of help. Because figure, you're on the fifth day of consecutive 13-hour days. You know, a little bounce under the eyes wouldn't kill you give her a bounce give her a bounce it's also just a guy holding a card right it's that's right it's not hard we're not we're not getting you we're not we're not bringing in a condor to add additional lights right this is this is uh yeah not that yeah but but people were not really lighting on that show for vanity certainly it was it was more about let's let's hang a hang a hang a light

overhead and just shoot for speed but uh it allowed for fun stuff allowed for fun stuff um the uh another thing i wanted to point out was uh ron's running in this episode he is which was a very deliberate choice that i was on the fence about i remember when we shot it but it is very funny in retrospect he uh he says you he says, you know, he says he ate all the bacon. He found the bacon in Leslie's pack, uh, pack and says, now it's gone. And I hate everything.

And he runs away. Um, and then later on he, he runs again when he runs toward the food. Cause he's hungry. And he was like, he, he basically,

I think justified it by saying, uh, when Ron's hungry, he doesn't care what he looks like. And he wants to just run toward the food. Running is a reoccurring theme on the show. There's a lot of Pratt runs a lot, usually without clothes. Yeah.

Ron running is a big part of this. Obviously, Chris Traeger, you know, is completely built on running. He wants to run to the moon. He wants to run to the moon. He wants to run to the moon. He's going to run to the moon. He's going to log the hours. Yeah.

And I love also that your favorite thing about the show is the goofy jokes and that's like a goofy joke that's also character building so that's like uh yeah right so good the goofier the better um they're swanson well you know um nick is a like a extremely powerful guy he's like that body of his he's like how did you's like, he's not really chiseled out of granite. It's not so much that, but he's, he is like, he's solidly built, right?

It's like, it's, yes, he's a, he's a burly man. He's a barrel chest. He's barrel chested. And he's sort of,

he's like, yeah, he's built of oak. He's pretty solid. Yeah. And seeing him haul ass, it's very good. It's very funny,

man. It's, and the other, the other directors are there's one of the one of the one of the guys michael is played by michael gross from uh from family ties that's right and uh and so i remember we were when we were casting him and and uh when he goes off on his rant and we reveal that he's like quote unquote strange or something his rant actually very reasonable now he's just saying weed should be legal. So now he's in there. Now he's totally sane. Like in 2021,

2022, whatever, like his thing is like, he's totally sane. Like, yeah, he was smoking weed. It's like,

yeah, you can do that now. And people are like, oh my God, you cut to like Leslie and Ron. They're like, oh, they're so mad that this guy likes weed.

I was like, you know what? That guy was right. So that, apologies to that character, Michael, because he was right. It a nice tie-up of who planted the weed in the pit from yes he said yeah he's like i planted weed in community gardens all over the uh weird like there's not there's world building the show but there's not usually that many callbacks and like that's a callback for many episodes many many episodes ago, 18 episodes ago or something.

So that's the writers being like, Ooh, that's kind of fun for us. Um, and, and, and I think I remember we were pitching for a while about what made these guys sort of difficult personalities and what would work. And I think, I think we shot, we shot a lot more stuff with them just to see what was the best stuff. And I think the best stuff probably made it in this episode, but, uh, um, yeah, it was, that was a little bit tricky figuring out like how to make them awful without making them totally horrible people but uh yeah it was it was fun to do ultimately and and you know it's fun to have michael gross on the show

i know what a legend there's nothing better than when as an actor when you you show up and like you're acting with someone maybe it's early and you haven't really focused and you look over and you go holy wait a minute i remember this happened on was it parks rec no it was something i looked over and i said wait a minute you're michael o'keefe you're danny fucking noonan from caddyshack yeah he's like yeah and i was like oh my god you look over it's michael gross you're like you just can't michael says you were the dad on family ties. It's like, that's such a fun thing, man. And that happens when, you know, actors come in to read. It's like, we were reading an actor from a different world the other day.

I was like, oh, man, you were on a different world. Like, that's really cool. Like, I remember that show. That is literally a different world. That's amazing. Yeah, it's really good, man. You know, watching this episode also made me think about the challenge sometimes in a show like this of balancing episodic concerns with serialized concerns. And by that, I mean, Parks is very much, well, you know, look, Parks is a show that you can pick up almost any episode and just watch it. And it exists on its own.

And there's a self-contained story, which is nice, right? Which is nice because you don't have to watch the entire show. That being said, there were definitely serialized elements within that. Like if you compare it to shows now, like a lot of shows are like, it's like a 10 hour movie. It's like, well, I don't always want to watch a 10 hour movie, right? It's like that. And sometimes that's too long and you have to, you know, picks up exactly where the last episode left off. So in parks, it was more like, okay, it's lightly serialized. We have these ongoing arcs, but you know, you can enjoy the show without knowing the intricacies of each and every, like, it's lightly serialized we have these ongoing arcs but you know you can enjoy the show without knowing the intricacies of each and every like it's not like westworld or something

right it's like i gotta know every man i don't know what happened i'm totally lost but in this one it's like yeah andy and april are kind of getting together and ann and mark are kind of breaking up and that's kind of all you have to service right so you know you kind of work that into the overall story which is about this catalog and so i don't know it's it's a fun kind of game of let's make sure this episode's really satisfying on its own for for the viewer but also can you make it a richer show by having these long-term arcs that you know pay off in the end so that's my favorite type of television i mean is is is the best of both worlds you know i because i i find that it's a for me it's a barrier of entry to know

once like i can't just walk in on episode five i've got to start it from the beginning and a lot of people love it they super super super love it i like to be able to to have both where i can watch any episode and then the more i watch in order there's the added value of the the threads that are being woven like you're discussing but you don't have to see absolutely every episode yeah and and even when when it is a continuous story i mean there's something to an episode feeling like an episode. It's, it's,

there's an art to, yeah, okay, we're doing a mini series. It's seven hours, but you kind of, it's kind of helpful to the viewer to build in a beginning, middle,

and end for that piece, you know, for that episode. I think that's, we're, we're in a really interesting time in, in, in storytelling,

you know, visual storytelling, because there's obviously films, there's long running television shows ongoing. There's mini series, there's things that are in storytelling, visual storytelling, because there's obviously films, there's long running television shows, ongoing, there's miniseries, there's things that are in between, like all these Marvel shows, like we don't even know if they're miniseries.

Like two of them were miniseries and then Loki was an ongoing series. Like we don't even know. So it's like, you're kind of, as a viewer, you're just kind of like trying to grasp onto something. And it's nice when the episode works as an episode for shows. And I think there's something comforting to the viewer about that.

Yeah, totally. Do you remember how Greg Daniels in the room would call them vectors, right? That every character should be on some kind of a vector throughout the season. And every episode should at some point tie into that vector, hopefully. And they don't always have to be full bore about that specific storyline, but to help give you like a journey through the season. I still use that term in writer's rooms sometimes. And it's similar to an arc or something, but you might say like,

hey, the vector for April and Andy for the second half of season two was that they grow closer together. There's an obstacle along the way, but then they end up together at the end. Right. And it's very simple, but once you keep that in your mind, you can kind of track all of these things.

Right. And it's like Leslie's arc is she grows. She's, she's very book smart, but she learns a little bit more about dealing with other people along her way and like building her team along the way to her goal or whatever it is. And Ron is really hard nose. And then he becomes becomes a little softer so you can have individual vectors or you can have sort of vectors in between characters where a relationship builds is there any value

at all to having a character who never changes and i think of archie bunker yeah yeah so that's a different that's a different thing right i think there are shows that do that a lot more i think that was a lot more common in the past. Like, look at Seinfeld, right? It's like those characters don't grow and change. This is different. That's that show. But there's also like, yeah, some characters never change, right?

And usually, you know, man, it's really your philosophy of what that show is going to be, right? It really is like, you know, do you have a long-term arc for the entire series for your character or is it more like the world changes around them and they stay the same? You know, I think they're both valid. They're both valid. And comedy used to be more the latter, which the characters don't change, right? And it's like you're a stranger in a strange land or whatever, you know do you want to go to the town hall

i think you do shall we move to the town howl is it a howl today is today howl is it a town hall or a town howl today now i'm just going town howl? Is it a howl today? Is today a howl? Is it a town howl or a town howl today? Now I'm just going town howl every time, but is it a town howl? It is. Schulte says it's a town howl. So that means it's a voicemail. Where should we do this town howl?

Oh, boy. I mean, should we do it in this picnic area that is in the summer catalog that is in Harvey James Park? Yes. In this picnic area that is in the summer catalog that is in Harvey James Park. Yes. A picturesque place that April and Andy get their picture taken and where the previous park directors get in their fight. Let's do it at this picnic table. Yep.

Come on, everybody. Come to the picnic. It's time to howl. Let's do it, Shultz. Hi. I'm Michael from Washington, D.C. And I'm a big nerd, so obviously I loved the cones of Dunshire. I was wondering if Ron Swanson were to make his own board game, what would it be like? Thanks. Oh, what a great question. Wow. I love that. That is okay. So the meats of Pittsburgh, I know a lot of thoughts, right? So

just thinking about like, you know, baseline, you would think it would be simple, right? Because he's a simple man. He likes meat, he likes breakfast food, he likes pretty brunette women, he likes woodworking. However, he also loves puzzles. Let's not forget that. He loves scavenger hunts. So, I don't know i almost think here's a crazy pitch rob it's a two-sided board game on the top it's the simplest game you've ever seen i'm thinking literally like a tic-tac-toe level simple game yep because that's the surface that he presents to the world and on the back side it's a super complicated puzzle maybe there's a musical element with jazz what do you think i'm trying to think what else oh i i like that i mean what if it's a what's i can never pronounce

this word it's it's it's the big piece of wood ron likes wood we're working that has meat on it and cheese usually charcuterie. Oh, charcuterie. Charcuterie. A little saloomy plate. What if it's like we're using, because you got meat, different meats, you've got wood. Sometimes the board looks like a big paddle, the kind that they used to beat me with in elementary school back in Ohio. And other times it looks like a pizza thing. So you could have all kinds of artistic stuff there. You can move things, move meats, various meats around like Monopoly.

I love that. Instead of like the top hat, you're like the... It's bacon wrapped shrimp. The bacon wrapped shrimp. Yeah. You're bacon wrapped shrimp. And then there's a meat tornado and then there's the turf and turf. Those are the pieces, right? Yes. Glass of Lagavulin whiskey, a little glass of Lagavulin. So those are your game pieces. I love that it's carved out of wood. And I think, I think we, we do it, meats and cheeses are the pieces. Maybe Steffi Graf is one of the pieces. And then you turn it over,

and it's the most complicated puzzle you've ever seen. So, like, it's just something for the brain. But, man, this is the mark of a good character where there's no end to how you could make the game more complicated and rich. What should it be called? I'm trying to think of the name now. I mean, do we stay with the alliterative model of cones of Dunshire?

Like I said, it's the meats of Pittsburgh. It's, I don't know what it is. It's like whatever it is. Is there that, or does he have his own, his own way of,

it's gotta be, I mean, it's a game. Ron's game is, was, was, yes. Ron's game is really,

really high up there because let's Not forget he called it the Swanson Pyramid Of Greatness and he named his team The Swansons so he's not big on Naming things in a florid Manner so I love Ron's Game all caps Very simple font

I like that You sold me I think we've done it I think we need to Call Mattel I mean let's Do it this is we made Cones of Dunshar It's own thing I like that. You sold me. I think we've done it. I think we need to call Mattel. I mean, let's do it. This is, we made Cones of Dunshire. It was its own thing. I loved that episode. I can't wait to get to that one. But it's a real game.

And man, I loved writing stuff for that one too. That was really fun. Thank you for the question. Michael from Washington, D.C. Town How. Town How voicemail. Send in your voicemails and maybe we'll get to them. And we'll answer them

In our own town howls We'll say goodbye To the picnic area I think that's all we got Yeah Rolo Thank you everybody For listening Another fun one for me

A lot of great stuff In this one Alan You are You're the man I'm going to let you Sign us off Let's say goodbye

Thank you to Producer Schulte Thank you Producer Craig Goodbye from Pawnee Bye everybody Bye. Thank you to producer Schulte. Thank you, producer Craig. Goodbye from Pawnee. Bye, everybody. Parks and Recollection is produced by Greg Levine and me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Alan Yang for Alan Yang Productions,

Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn are our talent bookers. The theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers, with additional tracks composed by John Danek. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.