Part Of The Problem - Mediocrity Over Excellence

Episode Date: December 28, 2024

Dave Smith brings you the latest in politics! On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave is joined by co-host Robbie "The Fire" Bernstein to discuss Vivek Ramaswamy's tweet about America's culture of mediocrity, the future of immigration, and more.Original air date: 12.27.24Support Our Sponsors:Sheath - https://sheathunderwear.com use promo code PROBLEM20Small Batch Cigar - https://www.smallbatchcigar.com/ Use code PROBLEM for 10% offPart Of The Problem is available for early pre-release at https://partoftheproblem.com as well as an exclusive episode on Thursday!Get your tickets to Porch Tour here:https://porchtour.comFind Run Your Mouth here:YouTube - http://youtube.com/@RunYourMouthiTunes - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/run-your-mouth-podcast/id1211469807Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4ka50RAKTxFTxbtyPP8AHmFollow the show on social media:X:http://x.com/ComicDaveSmithhttp://x.com/RobbieTheFireInstagram:http://instagram.com/theproblemdavesmithhttp://instagram.com/robbiethefire#libertarianSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What's up, what's up everybody welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem I am Dave Smith and he is Robbie the fire Bernstein. How are you sir? Doing well. How are you? Mr. Smith doing good doing good can't complain a few days away from the the new year here Counting down the end of 2024, which has been a wild one. Quite an incredible year, and I'm sure we'll do some type of, I was just thinking about today, the kind of part of the problem traditions. So we got to, we'll do an end of the year episode. And then, you know, what we've done is a before January 20th we got to do the legacy of Joe Biden episode, where we go over his presidency the highs and the lows. So we got some fun stuff

coming up. I did. Oh, and then of course we'll be on the road for all of 2025 comic Dave Smith calm to find all of me and Rob's road dates together and robbythefire.com for all of Rob's solo headlining shows. All right, so I wanted to talk about today, we're recording a late night episode, wanted to talk about our boy, the Vakram Swami, setting the internet on fire, as well as Elon Musk. The headlines across all types of corporate and independent outlets are about this kind of friction in the broader MAGA movement where people are fighting over H1B visas and American culture and so I thought we would come in and kind of talk about some of that stuff because there is a lot to talk about there. I sent you the vague Brahma Swami's tweet Rob. I know you're big saved by the bell fan You were very offended

deeply offended by that I did so I saw this tweet yesterday and I did I will say it I Thought it was interesting and it kind of made me think I did not entirely agree with it, but I did I was like Oh, this is kind of an interesting thought-provoking conversation that Vivek is starting here and then all day today on Twitter I've just seen people furious about it. So I was like good good. I think it did its job. It started a good conversation where we all yell at each other about who's a Really MAGA or something like that any I don't know Rob any any thoughts we could start with the the vague tweet or do you want to maybe start with just kind of the The h1b visas and the tension between the tech world and Trump. I'll let you pick where do you want to dig in first?

I have a lot on all of this, but we could start we could start with the visas I do think that there's something fascinating that if I'm sitting down and I'm watching a basketball game we can understand Hey I'd like to watch the best players in the world and it's so important for me to be Entertained and be able to watch the best players in the world that if you're the best in the world Well, we'd like to have you here We'd like for you to be a part of our infrastructure of the NBA. We want everyone to know that we've got the best league in the world.

So it seems like there's no problem getting a visa if you're a pro athlete or an entertainer and you're in the category of best in the world. It makes no sense why for every other profession, we wouldn't extend the exact same courtesy. Why would I want the best in the world to be somewhere else working for somebody else? If the best in the world want to come here and work for our companies and participate in our economy, who on earth is saying no to that? And if you're already going to accept that, it's kind of true of every single job.

Bill, there is there's no question that there is logic to that. And I think it's an important thing that there is. Look, I want to go through this because I actually I do see several different angles to this. I agree with what you're saying. And I think it's one of the things where there is a tendency to oftentimes on the populist right, there's a tendency to like downplay the importance of economics. And I think that that's a really dangerous game to go down.

I believe, like as Ludwig von Mises said, that economic laws exist whether you recognize them or not. The analogy in my mind is kind of like if you were saying, hey, I'm not interested in paying attention to gravity. It's like, okay, but if you're jumping out windows, you really better factor gravity into this because it's that force exists whether you like it or not. And it's a very important one. I think it's easy for people in the dissident right, particularly in today's environment in America with what America has been for like, let's just say the last 10 years, but probably the last 30 or last 50 but it's very easy if you're in the dissident right to feel like no there's something that's more important than economics there are things like like culture and tradition

and the nation and because these things have been so under attack it's easy to feel like well the economic stuff doesn't really matter as much. But my point is just don't fall into bad thinking. And I think that's the point you're kind of making too, Rob. It's like, look, if this applies here, as we can all say it does, then logically, let's just at least think about this. And I see this a lot when it comes to the arguments for protectionism. And there's kind of, I don't mean

to be offensive, but there is, from my perspective, a little bit of like a dumbing down of the rhetoric where it's almost given that American jobs equals good and foreign jobs equals bad. and there's never like any accounting for the fact that look it is true that if we outsource a steel plant the people who worked at that steel plant have lost American jobs and those jobs go overseas or something like that but if they are producing the steel for much cheaper and many more people are buying the steel in America then we're working at the steel plant much cheaper and many more people are buying the steel in America than were working at the steel plant, then a lot more people have benefited from this transaction. And you can downplay that all you want to. You can say I'd take American jobs over and live with the higher prices. But I would just

say consider what higher prices have done to people over the last few years. How many families have been destroyed over the price inflation? Stated differently. If I'm in the backyard at a barbecue at some guy who's in the, let's say the pavement construction, whatever union out of New Jersey, I'm like, man, that's awesome. You make 250 grand a year and you work nine to five, you rule. That's so cool that you have this job. And then guess what? Every time I'm on a road and it's got some pothole in it or it's got construction that's going on for three years and causing traffic, I'm like, why the hell can't government get me better roads? And so that's kind of the unintended consequence of the protected

union jobs is, yes, it's great for every single person that can have one of those, but for every single person that wants to use these goods and services and it's overwhelmingly expensive such as the subway, your education, everything, that sucks. And if you just start to understand economic growth of, well, if we can consume all these things for less, then we'd have, I mean, it's just economics of one lesson, so I'd have more money to spend elsewhere. Doesn't that just allow me to consume more? And I know everyone consume, consume, consume, but that's all jobs. That's all things that I want.

That's called economic growth. That's called putting money where I actually want to spend it, which then indicates to someone what they should be providing to me. This is all autistic talk for economic growth. But I just, part of the reason why I think it's, and by the way, even if people disagree with what we're saying here, just like hear us out and there's I have other thoughts on this matter as well. But it's also part of this is that that type of stuff. It's not economics. Economics is like the study of human action or human action toward, you know

improving the your your quality of existence or something like that this it's It's not separated from other issues that are very important So like even when you talk about like like let's say you're like a real right-wing dissident or something like that, or you're you're a very, very conservative. That when you're talking about that type of economic growth, when you're talking about making the average American richer, you're also talking about creating an environment where young men can afford to start a family. You know what I mean, where they can afford to maybe have their wife not need to go out and work and she can stay with the kids. There are other effects that like the idea of taking like cultural issues over

here and economic issues over here is always a flawed way to look at the world. So it's not just like for its own sake. We like prosperity and harmony and conservative culture kind of, I think all go hand in hand in my opinion. Um, I do think that there's maybe if there was more I want to get into on this end, because there is, okay, I'll say this, right. There is, maybe this has partially been kind of the evolution in my thinking over the years. And, and a lot of the stuff we're talking about, Rob, like up till partially been kind of the evolution in my thinking over the years and and a lot of the stuff

We're talking about rob like up till now is kind of there It is standard libertarian stuff, but I think it's important and I I still believe all of that I will say though in addition There the h1b visa thing has become at least in the way it's used, like a bit of a scam. And part of what that is, is that there's, it's kind of sold as, um, okay, these are the elite of the elite. And of course we want to get the best in the world of that.

And so they say, you think like, okay, well, look, most people will grant that we're kind of better off if we have, like you use the example okay, well, look, most people will grant that we're kind of better off if we have like you use the example of the NBA, but most people would probably grant like surgeons and engineers and like some very important jobs. Okay, yeah, if we can snag the absolute best guy in the world, you can see where yeah, that's that's better for our nation than not getting them. I think most people see that and then they kind of sell that but then they use it to fill up a lot of like 80, $90,000 a year jobs and companies get tax credits for hiring through the H1B program and so I can understand where like if you're an American citizen and you're like, I'm forced to fund this government organization and all of this stuff. Why is it unreasonable for me to say the priority should be me over foreigners?

Like in other words, like, why would you, why would the policy not be that we give tax credits for hiring Americans instead of tax credits for hiring H one B visa applicants? So I do think there is a point there. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense, Rob? I had not. It shows, showing my education on this one,

I didn't realize that there was a tax credit scam element to this. Yes, there is. And so, yeah, obviously that makes zero sense whatsoever that government should be incentivizing you to hire a foreign worker. But if a foreign worker is better skilled skilled and willing to do it you kind of have two separate problems here You got problem one, which is it is Gloriously stupid to want to keep the elites in other places like I don't know if I would you go hey Einstein

That guy's gonna compete with an American physicist. Let's leave him in Germany. I don't know was he originally in Germany I'm just coming up with an example here. Yeah, I him in Germany. I don't know, was he originally in Germany? I'm just coming up with an example here. I think so. Yeah, I think so too. Austria, Germany, I think so, yeah. But the point I'm trying to make is if you have absolutely elite, brilliant people

that manage to claw their way out of third world countries and show off their exceptional skills and knowledge, and they might be the key to your engineering team making breakthroughs, the idea that you wouldn't want to recruit those people makes zero sense. And then there's a separate conversation just about all foreign labor that you are,

like would you just rather the jobs go to other places because manufacturing's cheaper? And what that looks like of just basically having minimum wage laws, having union jobs, and outsourcing all labor to other areas because it's too expensive to do here. They're kind of, you see what I'm saying? Like they're almost, even though obviously we're going to go for freedom on both sides

because we know it works better, but they're kind of two separate categories. But the idea of government coming in with an incentive to specifically recruit foreign labor, I mean, that makes no sense. Right. And and there is something where I do think when you look at all of these things, all of these different areas, whether we're talking about, you know, factories going overseas, jobs going overseas, immigrants coming in and taking jobs, any of these topics, one of the things that just is always overlooked and I do think to some degree this is why Vivek's tweet,

which we'll get into in a second, drew such criticism from some people and why it really wasn't well received among a large group of people and I think part of that is that there's just, in all of these examples, the American worker is just constantly carrying the weight of our government on their back. It's just, oh, they have to carry the weight of the entire goddamn world empire.

All those 730 bases that we have all around the world, every proxy war we're fighting, every entitlement program, everything that the largest government in the history of the world demands is on the back of the American people. They're carrying this whole corrupt mess on their back. And then people come along and go, okay, and we're gonna subsidize someone else over you. And our concern is someone else over you. And you know what I mean? And like, there's just like a snapback reaction.

But you know, when you think about the jobs being outsourced, the government has made it so enormously expensive to produce and hire in America. You know, it's like the American worker doesn't even have a fair competition against any of these guys. And that's another factor in all of this. And, and, you know, I do understand where people look at a system and go like, why wouldn't the thought have been to have huge tax credits for hiring American workers? Why would the thought have been, you know, and by the way, I also think in

some of this stuff, a lot of the people are talking past each other because I actually, I'm not sure that Vivek Ramaswamy or Elon Musk would disagree with that. I know Vivek has said several times he thinks the H-1B program should be gutted and totally remodeled and stuff like that. And he is big on meritocracy. That's what he's been pushing. That, to me, there's a lot of, there's fair points all around there and there's competing interests, but we shouldn't pretend like any of them don't exist. I don't think we should pretend that like there is no, that it's so clearly self evident that it's better if there's like some freaking genius and they don't come to America like when we're talking about. Okay, that that's you know what I mean? Something worth now if you're talking about the fact that these companies are manipulating the way this thing is sold in order to like make it cheaper for them to hire someone foreign than hire an American. And that does seem to be the case quite often with these H-1B visas. That is a totally reasonable thing to be appalled by and to wish to abolish. One of the other interesting angles here, okay, there's a couple things.

Number one, there's also been a fair amount of investigative reporting and research that's been done on big tech companies discriminating against conservatives over the years and turning away people for different reasons. So in other words, like this, their line of like, well, we just need this work and we can't get it anywhere else So we have to import it is seems kind of like a dubious claim But there's also this weird dynamic in the tech world where the tech world was obviously as we all know in In many ways over the last few years Rob has not just been

mortal enemies of everybody who was critical of the regime, but also in many ways are our most devastating foe. You know, like the big concern for people in our world over the last few years has been like tech censorship and the fact that all these big tech companies that we kind of rely on in order to spread our, our, that we kind of rely on in order to spread our content, all of these companies were kind of against us. And then something dramatically new happened where Elon Musk came in, bought Twitter,

all of a sudden supporting Donald Trump became like the cool thing to do. And a lot of these tech guys now, even Zuckerberg's over there being like, no, I wanna be part of it. And so it's this weird dynamic where you now have a movement the broadly speaking the MAGA movement where there are kind of like okay they just allied with these tech guys Donald Trump for whatever reason and some people have

some wild conspiracy theories about this but Donald Trump his supporters were not really silenced in mass during this election. That's a huge part of what allowed him to win is that they didn't have anything like the Hunter Biden story where it was suppressed and people were shut down or any other stuff through COVID. And now you kind of have this group of people who they want their little pet thing and their pet thing is this H1B visa program and they like that they can hire a whole bunch of people that aren't American who who will do the job for cheaper and they they like this thing

that they've got it also involves you know it's kind of inherently in conflict with the MAGA movement because it's a kind of like oh we want people from other countries to have these jobs not America and that doesn't jive very well with the America first mindset and then you've also got a dynamic personally where a lot of these people in MAGA world know some of these people in the tech world and they're like oh you ruined my friend's life a few years ago over some bullshit so it's just interesting to see that whole dynamic,

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Most people click new first to shop their newest arrivals Make sure to use the discount code problem that will get you 10% off including those 5% reward points I mentioned earlier small batch cigar comm promo code problem. Alright, let's get back into the show All right, I don't know if there's anything else you want to add in there or we could maybe move on to Go ahead. I do have a I was just thinking this as you're talking and this is not libertarian But I just I'd be curious to know if I guess they were forced to hire more Americans if they could make that work Like is it really that Americans don't have the skill set or that there's no price point at which it's profitable

to be hiring these people? I'd love to hear a little bit more information about why exactly it is that foreign workers when it comes to these engineering jobs are such better fits or why they need them in order to be globally competitive or as to what, you know, because I've had jobs that I wasn't qualified for when I got there but there was actually good training and I learned and they

you know they needed to staff people and so I ended up with the job there. So it there is I guess there's also a slightly missing storyline here to me of what's wrong I mean kids are spending 50 grand a year to get college educations. I think there's wrong. I mean kids are spending 50 grand a year to get college educations. I think there's kids every single year that are leaving colleges without you know without jobs. I mean you're telling me that that the entire tech industry can't can't build a single college or post college two-year training system that gets these kids ready for the jobs that you're looking to staff. There also just seems to be something slightly missing in the storyline here of why are people

from abroad so much more competitive in these positions or Americans so unwilling to work. There seems just to be something missing in this storyline here, which could just be same as foreign labor when it comes to building a little tchotchke or whatever else. They're just willing to work for so much less than what we're willing to accept here. Yeah. Well, that's a good transition into Vivek's tweet because he kind of, I mean, he gives some ideas about what he thinks some issues in American culture are. And I don't agree with all of them, but I think it's an interesting conversation.

Then I think you just raised some of those kind of important questions. But so here, let me let's pull up the Vivek tweet. I'll read it. Hold on one second. Okay, the vague Ramaswami writes the reason top tech companies often hire foreign born and first generation engineers over native Americans isn't because of an innate American IQ deficit, a lazy and wrong explanation. A key part of it comes down to the C word, culture.

Tough questions demand tough answers and if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the truth. Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long, at least since the 90s and likely longer. That doesn't start in college, it starts young. A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math Olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian,

will not produce the best engineers. A culture that venerates Corey from Boy Meets World, or Zack and Slater over Scch and saved by the bell or Stefan over Steve Urkel in family matters will not produce the best engineers fact I know multiple sets of immigrant parents in the 90s who actively limited how much their kids could watch those TV shows Precisely because they promoted mediocrity and their kids went on to become wildly successful STEM graduates. Can we pause for a second?

Sure, sure, sure. Go ahead. There's just two interesting things about this. First is, and I think it's something we're all aware of, there used to be an old saying of like something about be careful bullying the nerds because they'll end up being your bosses and I think there's something that every American's somewhat aware of. And what he's describing only exists through high school,

because those kids that don't necessarily fit in your high school, because they're particularly bright, they'll go on to Harvard. They'll go on to MIT. And then once you're in college, they're kind of admits other people who want to be excellent. And so what he's describing is grade school and high school. And I think people are aware of it.

And the kids that do want to excel go on to those places. And then they exit from the stupidity of American high school culture, of which I was a participant. I spent most of my high school not showing up drinking and smoking. And it was a lot of fun at the time. And I somewhat regret it now because

You know I could have learned I could have learned a little bit more with that's with that said I can only speak for the That the Jewish culture I was raised in and I can tell you that I my peer group definitely outperforms culturally like if I if I were to list my 10 synagogue friends, I mean, of my 10 synagogue friends, I think there's four multi-millionaires, and the rest of them are high-performing CPAs. I can't tell you how much cultural pressure there was

to work hard, which is in part because we get married at age 24, 25. Once again, I got to be that age, and that wasn't in the cards for me, so I stopped keeping, I was like, I'm out of this. I'm done with this virgin shit, and I'm not getting myself a good job But if you wanted to exit like kids didn't fuck around in college in the same way It was a different culture that you were trying to have a job and get married that was the way that that worked and Our parents worked incredibly hard and the education was really important and there was kind of a hey

We're not fucking around type attitude that when I mingle With people from other demographics. They did not have the same pressure from their parents To work their asses off or a fear of money or a fear of being unsuccessful And what the consequences of that of what what that looks like? Yeah, I mean those things are, look they're enormously important and I don't exactly agree with Vivek here. In my opinion, I think he's missing the mark a little bit when he talks about these TV shows and I don't, and I mean that it's not like, I'm like I really am offended by the

Save By The Bell stuff, but I actually, I don't think there's anything wrong with like Kind of lionizing AC Slater or Kelly Kapowski or something like that It's like that they were like the beautiful and successful athletes and there that's also a meritocracy of its of its own and I think that one of the things that people kind of got to remember with this is that look obviously the vague is talking about these things from his perspective and The vague is and I mean this I really like the guy I consider him a friend so I just but the vague is like In Indian nerd brilliant guy. You know what I mean? Like that's his perspective who's like literally been like wildly successful and is like got a crate like just like a gifted Child who probably my guess is had like fairly strict

Parents who kind of you know, like I mean look we all what he's talking about in the 90s as he mentions there You know knowing people from these immigrant backgrounds. I mean, I know, I knew some, um, like Indian and other Asian, uh, cultures, Korean, um, couple Asian, uh, um, a couple other Asians, I think and, um, I knew a couple Indian kids who's yeah had, I mean, like they just, you know, they live in a different type of culture, even much different than what you're talking about, Rob. You know, it's like Tiger mom shit. Like it's, you know what I mean? Like they are like they are getting straight A's in school. Anything less than straight A's is unacceptable. They're doing every extracurricular activity. They're playing violin.

They're doing all of this and they're like for their for fun, maybe they're like allowed to read fiction or something like that, but they don't hang out with the other kids. They're not out at night. They're not do they come now personally, I would never push my kids like that. It's just not my values. It's not my culture. It's I don't agree with it. I don't think it actually it certainly produces very successful kids a lot of times. I think, I don't know that it produces like critical thinkers and genuinely at peace kind of joyful people. And personally, I very much believe in like really just loving your kid. I'm like a hippie when it comes to parenting, like a right wing hippie, a good right wing hippie, but

I'm like a hippie when it comes to this shit. I really, I believe in peaceful parenting. I believe in showering kids with love and just giving them like a childhood, a nice foundation. But okay, I do also believe in like really trying to stimulate them intellectually. I really do believe in, in like, you know, uh, reading and play based, like them intellectually. I really do believe in reading and play-based interactive education. So look, I'm not saying that anyway, long rant short, I guess.

I don't necessarily agree with Vivek's examples. And I don't think the answer is necessarily that we need to embrace Orthodox Jewish culture, or Asian Asian or Indian culture, any type of tiger mom shit. But I think almost anyone, if we're being honest, you'd at least have to admit that like, yeah, no, there are major problems in American culture. And if we at least, like maybe there's a happy medium between like not having saved by the bell and having kids who could read at grade proficiency

that might be a you know what i mean like that is a reasonable thing to expect and there's certainly at least truth to the fact that just in our own american culture you know like i feel like almost if the vague didn't say it this way and he just said something about participation trophies a lot of right wingers would have agreed with him because that's just like their buzzword and they'd have been like, yeah, that's the side we're on. But like, okay, that's just one example. But yeah, a nation of participation trophies. This is like totally like become the norm in this country. And that's not good. We're not at all encouraging the idea in young people that you should strive to be great. By the way, I have much less of a problem with the shows, you know, putting the head cheerleader and the star jock out there

than I do, you know, having, putting like the disabled, obese trans person out there or something like that. So I'm okay with some traditional standards of beauty. But I don't know, any other, anything else you want to add, Rob, or should I go back to read the end of the tweet? I also just kind of other anything else you want to add rubber should I go back to? To read the end of the tweet I also just kind of feel like you know not all the jobs are gonna go the way of the math nerds Maybe that's somewhat trendy right now, but like I don't know there's something there's something for everyone else to do Like there. I'm just saying there's a winning spirit to the people that aren't the fucking math nerds

They'll end up in sales jobs, they end up in management positions, they end up like, there's a lot of other jobs out there that the cooler kids can find. I don't think the fact that some people don't gravitate towards the math and sciences is necessarily indication that they'll permanently be without employment or that trying to gear, I just can only speak for myself. School was not a very rewarding environment for me. I certainly did not enjoy my time there,

and I didn't make good use of it because I felt like I was forced to be there and I wasn't able to control my day, my schedule, or follow what I find interesting. There wasn't a lot of opportunity to grow, you know grow what I'm good at and what I like to do. So the school was a very punishing environment that for 24 years I thought I was an idiot and I was pretty miserable.

So I also just don't really know that championing more math or making that cool and trying to make that the thing that we all compete in is necessarily in 20 years where all the jobs are going to be and what's going to help people. Yeah, I mean what I would say is that we need in many ways like a reimagination of education in general. This is something I've been saying for many years, but I really do. Um, you know, I, if you, if you're very conscious of this stuff and you make money and you have a bit of money, you can, you know, get your kids good educations in

this country. I don't mean to say you can't, but there is something where like we really do. And I think the whole school system was designed to do this. And you know, get into my whole, you know, the whole rant about how it's adopt the Prussian system that we adopted, but I'll skip that. But kids are naturally very curious and into learning and I do think that school in general ends up suppressing that much more often than it encourages it and and particularly for people who are not Conformists and there's something about the schooling system which again is what it was designed to do was to create conformists That you know if you're very good at memorizing and regurgitating and reading the thing that you didn't really want to read

But that was assigned to you and that's and and you know answering back what the teacher wants to hear from you you end up doing very well in school but if you're kind of like an outside the box person you tend not to not to mention just sitting still I'm an adult I'm 36 I sit down for the show I sit down when I'm on a plane I literally have a standing desk and I'm moving around constantly yeah the idea that when I was eight years old I had to sit in a seat or at 13 I had to sit in a seat. Oh no, that's a great point dude. Just that, just that bias alone that like you're biased against people who maybe just don't want to sit still. It's a great point. And the fact

that you'd be expected to do that when you were fucking seven is just insane. Um, yeah, an excellent, excellent point. All right. Let me read the rest of a Vicks. A Vicks post here. Um, okay. He says, wait, sorry. More movies like whiplash, fewer reruns of friends, more math tutoring, fewer sleepovers, more weekend science competitions, fewer Saturday morning

cartoons, more books, less TV, more creating, less chilling, more extracurriculars, less hanging out at the mall. Most normal American parents look skeptically at those kind of parents. More normal American kids view such those kinds of kids with scorn. If you grow up aspiring to normalcy, normalcy is what you will achieve. Now close your eyes and visualize which families you knew in the 90s or even now who raised their kids according to one model versus the other. Be brutally honest.

Normalcy doesn't cut it in a hyper competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we'll have our asses handed to us by China. This can be our Sputnik moment. We've awakened from slumber before before and we can do it again. Trump's election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up, a culture that once again prioritizes

achievement over normalcy, excellent over mediocrity, nerdiness over conformity, hard work over laziness. That's the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood and just wishing or legislating alternative hiring practices into existence. I'm confident we can do it. So look, there were a lot of people who objected to what Vivek was saying. To be clear, I do think that he kind of answered back with some people who were like, oh, well, we used to have that in America, why can't we have that now?

And he's like, yeah, I totally agree, that's my point. We should have that now. So I do think there were some people who were kind of, they were missing his point or kind of talking past him. But to his final point there, my whole thing with this is, and I would say when he does connect it there to hiring practices, although again, it's not as if he said that's why we shouldn't touch

H-1B visas or something like that, and he's gone on to clarify that that's not his position. So actually let me say this and then we get back to the system. This I will say that I think a lot of people also because Vivek is Indian, he's American, but he's Indian American, I think a lot of people did take this kind of like as an outsider criticizing our culture or something like that. I don't know if that's fair. I mean Vivek was born here, he grew up here, I think he's talking about the country he lives in,

he ran for president, he's a very influential, very successful American. He has a right to give his opinion. And I don't think it's fair to view him as an outsider. Look, I'm not saying I completely agree with him. It you have to admit, Rob, it's hard, at least from my perspective, it's hard to take too much offense to someone being like, Yeah, if kids were spending a little bit more time reading it a little less time hanging out at the mall, that's probably better. Okay. I can't really argue with that. Now that being said, I do think there's actually quite a bit of a balance to life. I do believe in kids enjoying their childhood, particularly early childhood.

But there's a point there for sure I think fear and humility forces people to level up and I I know my most successful friend was a was a stupid goofball same as I am and He realized at one point that his dad he didn't have a dad his dad is out of the picture and he realized he didn't have the same safety net as As the rest of us and so he outworked all of us and he's more successful because of it. And I know sometimes in my own life, it's like the old boxer thing.

It's hard to get up and train when you're in your fine linen sheets or whatever. I think in America we've got a lot of socialism here. There's a lot of protection. And there is a culture of, hey, I'm just supposed to have a bunch of things even if they're unearned. And I think having, you know what I mean? I feel like there's almost not enough realization for, hey, it might not be that easy to get a job. Hey, like, you know what I mean? I think if already by high school,

you're realizing how hard you're going to have to work in order to maybe have a house and maybe and start really working towards those goals as opposed to drinking through college or whatever else and thinking things are magically gonna work out. I do think the fear, I think fear is what kind of drives people to be more responsible. I know in my life, I was a really,

I was a dumb person for a really long time and I did a lot of drinking, not that I don't drink now, but I definitely did a lot, and I didn't think there was going to be any consequence. And then when he gets a consequence of, oh, I don't have a job and I have no employable skills, and I don't know where to go from here, I had to start living a more disciplined life, because I confronted the consequence of that. So I think where he's not wrong, and I know that this was true of at least the Jews I was around, there were people that survived the Holocaust and they came here and they realized they had the fear of the universe of

holy shit, I better be successful, life is scary. And I know of my grandfather, he survived the Great Depression and being poor was the scariest thing in the world and he got into hard I'm sorry He got into Brown and Yale against Jewish quotas at the time and he created a different life and he lived a very disciplined lifestyle because he was afraid and I so I think I think there is a lacking for the fear of oh there aren't just gonna be jobs for me unless I'm like Globalizations here we're competing against the rest of the world for jobs You got more and more people that are gonna and like there could be economic growth

You know what I mean? So like there's new opportunities down the line that don't exist now but I do think we probably are culturally too lackadaisical and I do think he's a Heat he's hitting on something here. All right, guys Let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is sheath underwear The most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you will ever wear in your entire life The only underwear that I ever wear you got to check out sheath underwear great guys who run this company They've been sponsoring us for many years now And I still have the first pairs that they ever sent me and they feel as good as new

and I still have the first pairs that they ever sent me and they feel as good as new Quality stuff over at sheath underwear and longtime sponsor of this podcast go to sheath underwear comm use the promo code problem 20 that will get you 20% off your entire order They ship anywhere in the world once more sheath underwear comm promo code problem 20 for 20% off your order Yeah, I mean look I think there's as probably most people know there's always a balancing act with a lot of these things right and so any whether you're you know a socialist and you kind of like blame things on capitalism or if you're even I've seen this with libertarians and you blame things on the government or if you blame even I've seen this with libertarians, and you blame

things on the government, or if you blame things on the Jews, or you blame things on whoever it is, there's always a risk when you're doing that, that you're going to fall into kind of like a victimhood mentality and start blaming your problems asking to borrow money from a friend there. I need 200 bucks or blah, blah, blah. I can't get to work tomorrow because this goddamn capitalist pig is going to fire me if I don't do blah, blah, blah. And you're, you know, and you're like, look, maybe it is like you could be kind of correct in some sense. Maybe your boss is really a jerk and maybe like you do have a legitimate

gripe with someone, but it's also hard to not sit there and be like, Hey, you're an adult. How do you not have $200 put aside? You know, like how you there's your your part of this equation. If you're an able bodied man who's in his 30s and you don't have $200 put aside your at least. And so you could see where it's just it's a dangerous thing to fall into that like victimhood mentality that also doesn't mean you might be not be right like your boss might be a dick or something like that So I would just say I think my advice is I think people should be um You want to find a way Where you're not too fragile to be able to hear something like this from vake and shut down This is a reasonable point that he's making

It's a reasonable topic and I think kind of an interesting topic to approach. And the people who are coming in pretty hard, like from my perspective, Vivek's earned the right to like give his opinion on some fucking things. And so I don't have anything against that. I would say that when it comes to his last point about the hiring practices,

I think it's reasonable for Americans to go, okay, we hear your point. There are certainly ways that our culture has been degraded, particularly over the last 2030 years. Also, let's take a look at this system and make sure it's not rigged against the American people. I don't think it's too much to ask that the American people who have to fund this entire system ask that it's not rigged against them. And it seems like in almost every single system that you could think of in the

United States of America today, it's like rigged against average Americans. And so I do also understand that. And I do also understand Americans having a little bit of a feeling of like, Hey, look, you know, like there's a fair counterpoint to like the tiger mom argument and the counterpoint might be something like yeah well the thing about our country is that our unifying principle here is liberty. That's been the idea of America from the beginning and when you have liberty it does produce a little bit of a different characteristic or you could

argue the characteristic produces the liberty or the culture produces the liberty or the people produce it or whatever. But maybe we don't, maybe even in America in the 1950s or 1960s, maybe we didn't push our kids quite as hard as like the tiger moms did, but it also did kind of create the society that you guys are immigrating to now. Like we're not the ones trying to go over to your society, you know what I'm saying? Like there is something to be said for like well maybe this culture of freedom and all of that is why you want to now come over and this culture of like economic development and growth is why you want to come over now and Push your kid to go be an engineer in America rather than stay in your country and for what I understand

We're not as lazy as the Europeans You always hear about their I've been told coffee in the afternoons and just shutting down their stores and all their stupid whore shit So we don't go to we don't go on no siesta We fill up a triple X tub of soda and take it to our cubicle Yeah, we're right through lunch. We still got some hard workers here and a winning and a winning spirit I always think it's funny sometimes in the Olympics where you see like I Don't know. It's like I almost call it like cowboy attitude where you see

You see more like in the winter sports with like the American like skiers and snowboarders And they just seem like a bunch of lazy uncaring goofballs And then they're against these and what seemed to be like highly Disciplined samurai Japanese people and then a lot of times we completely kicked their ass But then you see the way that these people train and you know they're putting their work in so I don't know I feel like we still got a winning spirit but like we're a little bit a little bit wilder with it which I think comes with risk-taking and that's also why we win. Yeah no I mean I agree and I think that there's I'd like to see a world where like, look, I should say it like this, okay.

The as as me and you have both been pretty clear for many years at this point. Now, the immigration policy in this country is just it's disgraceful and borderline suicidal. I mean, it's just been particularly during the Biden years, but for many years before that, it's just, it is, it is insane to have a country where the dominant cultural ideology is essentially one that condemns it, the their own nation as essentially what we are as a history of slavery and segregation and racism and patriarchy and bigotry and Stokes racial grievances.

Meanwhile, you're bringing in a million legal immigrants a year, the vast disproportionate majority of them being, you know, not white. So essentially changing very drastically the cultural and racial makeup of the country. While at the same time you have woke progressives constantly trying to stoke racial and tribal flames. Then on top of that you have a giant welfare state. This is totally like the people of the country have never gotten a say in this, never gotten a vote in this. The property owners of the country are completely disenfranchised. And then on top of that, you have just hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants coming in every single year. We really have no idea exactly how many. There's no accounting for them. We don't know how many are here.

There's an insane immigration system currently It's one and it's of course it policy wise the primary reason why Donald Trump has been elected twice But there is So I've said for a while that I think it's crazy that the American people have no way of exercising any type of influence or control over this immigration system. And, but this is something different. I mean, when you're talking about the H-1B visas, again, granting that it's a total scam and it's totally sold as one thing and then used in a different way, and it is, the system is pitted against the American people and that's totally unfair and it should be changed but you are talking about like 80,000 I think people a year come in from this it's it is kind of small

peanuts in the larger immigration conversation just saying like just the numbers of it and there's at least when we're talking about like skilled immigrant labor there's a much different debate that should be having that's that's a totally different thing than like just 100,000 migrants pouring into your country who are all going to be on welfare immediately. That is like a different conversation to have. insane, that this current immigration system is unsustainable and dangerous, and as I said, somewhat suicidal, that you can still understand where I would want, like I want in America, where there can be a sane immigration system, and we don't have anything like this. And I'm even open to arguments because I have heard some fairly persuasive ones that we should essentially have very very

limited even legal immigration at this point that it should be super super legal we've taken in so many people that we kind of have to close for a while and allow for like a bit of a melting pot and then you will see what can happen in terms of deportations and but that's that's very messy and going to be very difficult logistically to implement. At least on on large levels, but I've I can even get that argument. I can get all of that. But I would want to live in a world where we could have a sane immigration system, maybe even a very restrictive immigration system. But also, the American workers wouldn't be so insecure that they'd be real worried

about foreigners coming and taking their jobs that also we we would just be killing it so much that you'd be like I'd like to see one of these guys from this third world country even try to come take my job because I'm so skilled and I'm so competent and so at least part of this conversation like we could rail against the immigration stuff too but then part of this conversation. Like we could rail against the immigration stuff too, but then part of this conversation should be like, why have the American people also been so failed by this system that they're not in that position? That they're not like in that position where they are just so competent and so good at their job and we have such a like a positive and prosperous culture that we are just out competing the world at all of

this stuff. Because that should be, I think, what we strive for. Anyway. Probably comes down to the Fed and that the larger companies have more access to capital and so it's too hard to just get in there and compete. And so maybe that's why I guess the workers in the world are going, hey, you guys have rigged this and we're going to need those jobs. So you're not giving them to foreigners. Well, I will say, the other thing that I would just kinda caution people to be skeptical about is that, or caution them to be skeptical,

I would kind of ask people, think about all of this stuff, and think about everything that's going on here, and even if you're kinda on the other side of this issue this issue from the vaker from Elon Musk or something like that, there's look, there's been obviously a tremendous concerted effort over the last few weeks to try to get from and I mean from the corporate media from the powers that be to try to drive a wedge between Elon Musk and Donald Trump. This is it's been reported in all of the major newspapers that Elon Musk is the real president and they know what they're doing and they're this one was actually a little bit clever. I think

they got Trump to respond to it a few times like that is Rob what you do if you want to drive a wedge between Trump and somebody is you start publishing that you know he's got the biggest dick in the room not Donald Trump because you know, he's got the biggest dick in the room, not Donald Trump. Because you know, Donald Trump is going to have to come back and be like, it's actually pretty tiny. It's average at best, you know, and like, so it like, and then that is a way to because all these guys are kind of alpha guys in their own way.

And so then that causes the line must be like, oh, why is he up there saying I got a tiny dick when I just gave him $100 million? You know? Um, this is I've seen this movie before. I know how this goes in general. I've predicted this, uh, since well before Donald Trump won, I've said if he gets back in there, here's the issue is that you go in there, you end up getting a handful of decent people around you. Then you get a lot more just establishment guys. That's already been true in the Trump administration and his appointments and stuff like that. And then what happens is they start targeting the good people one by one by one and start kind of edging them out, getting them out of the way. And all I'm saying is that you got these two guys, the vague Rama

Swami and Elon Musk, these two very intelligent, um, very capable guys who have been put in charge of this brand new thing, which is like designed to kind of attack the power source of the entire corruption in this country. Like you want to, you want to really make some enemies in Washington, DC, start talking about cutting $2 trillion out of the budget. That's, that's how you make some enemies. And the, the biggest factor in the, the whole system being pitted against the American people is how giant the government is.

That's the whole thing is that against the American people is how giant the government is. That's the whole thing is that economically the American people have to carry the weight of the global empire and frankly Entitlement programs for boomers who wrecked this whole thing That's quite frankly. That's really the the most of it Is that the boomers set up a system where they just extracted all the wealth out of the most powerful country in the history of the world. They told us we had golden spoons in our mouths. Yeah, told the next generations that they were so privileged

that they got to live in their parents' house that went up by 800% or something like that. And left a system where they handed the next generation nothing but debt and war and chaos and yet somehow they've worked it out where their social security and Medicare will be covered by everybody else and they're just they're all retired on their pensions now and the American worker has to carry this whole day. So then you have Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy come around and they're talking about cutting massive amounts out of the budget. They've also

said things about how the Pentagon isn't off limits. You want to really make some enemies in DC. That's what you start talking about, cutting the Pentagon. And now all of a sudden there's a major campaign to like remove these guys screw these guys it's like that you know a lot i see a lot of MAGA people being like we don't need them they need us type attitude and it's like listen that is just not entirely fair to say about Elon Musk Elon Musk played a vital role in getting Donald Trump elected vital, uh financially in terms of uh, um Communication there's no one bigger than him buying twitter and a count in there the ripple effect that that had and also just um Culturally, it's like been a huge force

So I would you know, I'd be pretty hesitant to like throw these guys under the bus over this over them having look, there's there's obviously gonna be, I think in this world in this alliance with like the tech bros and Donald Trump, there's going to be some conflicts of interest. And this quite possibly is one. And so I don't think they should get a fair system in unfair system that rigs it against the Americans and lets them hire, gives them tax credits to hire cheaper foreign labor. I'm not saying I support that,

but at the same time, it's kind of like, yeah, that's the way it's gonna be anytime you align with some businessmen. There might be things that are in their interest that they're gonna be like, well, we do kind of like this one car about. I'm just saying, again, I think a lot of people are disagreeing with Vivek and Elon in good faith.

I'm just saying, like, I'm not ready to throw the two people who are, like, really making the issue of cutting government spending at the central focus again. I'm not ready to cut those guys loose. And I don't think the rest of MAGA should be either, if they're smart about this. That's my opinion. With all that said the optics aren't great I mean if you're Elon Musk you should have played it as I for the next two years I need more foreign workers but I'm opening up this university and I'm hoping to staff this many Americans by this point in time or

we're gonna do this to get the Americans prepared for the jobs I need a staff or if you give me this I'm gonna do this much amount of American labor. But I think American first and American jobs are kind of top of mind. So particularly before Trump even gets in having a conversation of, hey, I need for my industry foreign workers, which by the way, I think the reality of the situation is that every American corporation would probably prefer cheaper foreign labor, and if they could staff up the illegals that came over the border, and there's a conversation to be had there of the wealth that could be

generated if every corporation ends up with cheaper foreign labor, and that maybe we all win from it. But yeah, the optics of America first and then giving out a piece of the pie to foreign workers for just the guy who helped you get in is not great. It's not great. I think that there was a real problem with the optics of the Vakes tweet also. And I think that's part of the reason why

it wasn't well received with a lot of people. However, I do think that like, all of these issues are things we're going to have to grapple with. And I do think that much like you know, much like with the the fight over the woke right kind of this this fight, there's this is just like there's something about it that's human nature, where the you know, the the woke left just took such a shellacking, you know, like they just got beat so bad that they're kind of like demoralized and down and out. And then it's almost it's such a human nature thing that the next thing to happen is that this coalition that came together to beat them

starts finding things to argue about with themselves, and I don't think that's necessarily an unhealthy thing I don't like I I always think that and maybe this is like the old-school liberal in me talking But I always think that like it's a good sign if a lot of these like issues are being hotly debated and it's a bad sign when people are kind of Shrieking and talking past each other and just lobbing insults without grappling with people's arguments so it's I just think like these things should be debated and they should be talked about the the you know support for Israel should

be something that's like hotly contested on the right wing in America. And support for H-1B visas is something that should be hotly contested. Like all of these things are, you know, obviously my feelings are pretty known on most of these things, but like these are like important fights to be had. They're not meaningless things. And so I do think it's like, it's not the worst thing in the world that these topics are being brought up. And I do think, even while I don't completely agree with Vivek's tweet, I do think he certainly brought up something that's a very important topic for people to think about. All right. We're going to wrap up there.

Rob, any final thoughts? Anything you want to plug? Let the people know. Check out Run Your Mouth. Probably going to do a long New Year's episode. So next episode next week, Wednesday. I don't even remember what I did this past week, but check out Run Your Mouth. No live dates at the moment, but you know, porch tour season's come just around the corner.

There you go. Alright guys, and Comic Dave Smith of course for all of me and Rob's 2025 dates. All right. Catch you guys later. Peace.