Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Honoring Emile Bruneau: Using Empathy as a Path to Peace w/John R. Miles EP 504

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on Passion Struck. Emile Bruno once said, the biggest challenge to conflict is not to understand the other side, it's to see them as fully human. And Brene Brown said, empathy is the ultimate form of human connection. Without it, we build walls.

Starting point is 00:00:17 With it, we build bridges. In episode 504, I delve into the groundbreaking work of Emile Bruno, who dedicated his life to understanding and transforming the psychological roots to conflict. Discover how his revolutionary approach to empathy can bridge even the deepest of divides, offering a path to peace in our most divided world. Welcome to Passion Struck.

Starting point is 00:00:39 Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors,

Starting point is 00:01:11 CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become Passion Struck. Hey Passion Struck Tribe, welcome back to episode 504. And let me just start by saying a massive thank you to each and every one of you Passion Struck. and to create lasting impact. If you're new here, welcome to the movement. Or if you've been thinking about introducing it to a friend or a family member, and we so appreciate it when you do that, all it takes is introducing it to one person. We've got you so covered.

Starting point is 00:01:54 With over 500 episodes now in the catalog, I can't even believe we've reached that point, it can be tough, I understand, to know where to start. That's why we've created episode starter packs, curated playlists to help you dive right in. We've organized them by theme, like top behavioral science episodes, or shows focused on physical and mental health.

Starting point is 00:02:13 Astronauts, military leaders, or women at the top of their game. Head over to Spotify or passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started. In case you missed the earlier episodes this week, it has been packed with just fascinating conversations, including the eye-opening one that I had with Stanford psychologist Dr. Jamil Zaki, where we explored how cynicism can erode trust and how embracing, hopeful skepticism can help rebuild it. If you're ready to see The Good in Humanity again,

Starting point is 00:02:40 don't miss that episode. It's one that will truly change your perspective. I also had the pleasure of chatting with Gabriel Rylik, head of content at Good and Upworthy and co-author of Good People, Stories from the Best of Humanity. Gabriel's on a mission to spotlight the positive side of human nature, and our conversation dives deep into why sharing stories of goodness isn't just uplifting. It can actually drive real change. We talk about how Upworthy created one of the kindest spaces online and how its positive stories can help reshape

Starting point is 00:03:12 how we see the world. This is a conversation along with Jamil's you don't wanna miss. And as always, your ratings, reviews, and feedback mean everything to us. If today's solo episode resonates with you, then please leave us a five-star review and share it with your friends and family. Your support not only helps us, but also our incredible guests. And to that end, I wanted to thank a listener, Matt Gerlach, for writing my favorite podcast ever.

Starting point is 00:03:36 I found this a few months ago, and it's mind-blowing. It feels like every time I need to pick up some inspiration, I turn on passion struck and find all I need. like for that truly inspirational review of the show that was so heartfelt and meant the world to me. Thank you so much for being a regular listener. Earlier this week, I had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Jamil Zaki about his new book, Hope for Cynics. During our conversation, we delved into the life and impact of Emile Bruneau, a figure who had a profound impact on both Zaki's life and my own. Inspired by our discussion, I felt compelled to pay tribute to Bruno and the remarkable contributions that he made to our understanding of human conflict. Conflict is as old as humanity itself, manifesting in every corner of the world, from the battlegrounds of international wars to heated arguments in our own living rooms.

Starting point is 00:04:41 At its core, conflict stems from the same human vulnerabilities, fear, misunderstanding, and the inability to emphasize with the other. But what if we could better understand the psychology behind these confrontations? What if the key to resolving conflicts on any scale lies not in military strategies or political negotiations, but in the way our brains perceive and respond

Starting point is 00:05:04 to one another. Emile Brunot, a cognitive neuroscientist, believed just that. His pioneering work focused on how the human mind fosters conflict and, more importantly, how it can be rewired to cultivate peace. Brunot's research reveals that the path to resolution, whether in war zones like Ukraine or Gaza, or in everyday disputes begins with empathy, perception, and dismantling cognitive biases. In today's episode, I'll explore Emile's insights and how his work can be used to build understanding and reconciliation, whether at a personal, societal, or even a global

Starting point is 00:05:41 level. As we unravel the science behind human conflict, we unlock the potential to create lasting peace, even in the most challenging circumstances. Let's dive into the groundbreaking work of Emile Brunel, beginning with an experience that highlights the psychological complexities of conflict. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide

Starting point is 00:06:01 on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin. In the summer of 1997, Emile Bruneau found himself in a dusty square in Belfast, witnessing a scene that would shape the rest of his life. A minor argument between two young boys, one Catholic and one Protestant, had erupted into something that was far more dangerous, which should have been a brief scuffle over a trivial matter quickly escalated into a full blown out brawl. A crowd gathered, their loyalties split along religious lines, and the tension thickened.

Starting point is 00:06:39 In that moment, Bruno realized that this was not just a fight between two children. It was a manifestation of something much deeper, decades of distrust, fear, and ingrained group identities. The violence felt automatic, driven by forces that felt both primal and psychological. This incident crystallized a question that would guide Bruno's research for years. What psychological forces turn minor disagreements into full-scale conflict? Why do seemingly rational people so easily slip into hostility when their group identities are threatened? The brawl in Belfast was a microchasm of how conflict unfolds at any scale. It wasn't just about physical violence. It was about how we perceive each other, about the cognitive biases

Starting point is 00:07:25 that turn neighbors into enemies. The same dynamics play out across battlefields around the world, in political arenas, and even with families and friendships. For Bruneau, understanding these dynamics was key to finding ways to prevent conflicts from spiraling out of control. This experience propelled Bruneau into exploring the psychological mechanics of conflict, particularly how biases, empathy gaps, and dehumanization shape our perceptions of people from other groups. His journey from that square in Belfast to the forefront of neuroscience was driven by a singular goal, to understand how the mind fuels conflict and how it can be trained to foster peace.

Starting point is 00:08:07 The brawl in Belfast revealed something deeply embedded into human nature, the instant to view those outside our group with suspicion and hostility. Emile Bruno recognized that this just wasn't a product of cultural or historical tensions. It was rooted in the brain itself. The way that we categorize people into us versus them is an ancient survival mechanism

Starting point is 00:08:30 that in the modern world fuels division and conflict. Cognitive biases ingrained in our brains over millennia are at the heart of many conflicts. One of the most powerful biases that Bruno studied was in-group favoritism, the tendency to show favoritism and empathy towards those whom we identify as part of our group, whether based on religion, race, nationality, or political beliefs. This bias creates an empathy gap where we view those in out-groups with indifference or even hostility,

Starting point is 00:09:04 making it more easy to justify harm. Renault's research also highlighted the stark effects of dehumanization, another cognitive bias. When we perceive individuals or groups as less than human, it becomes psychologically easier to justify violence and cruelty. Renault's work using neuroimaging demonstrated how the brain reacts differently to members of outgroups, often showing reduced activity in areas associated with empathy as well as emotional connection. The dehumanization is not limited to times of war. It plays a role in everyday social divisions, from political polarization to racial discrimination.

Starting point is 00:09:42 It explains why a protester might be hailed as a hero in one context but labeled a threat in another. It also sheds light on how media portrayals of refugees or migrants can shape public opinion with dehumanizing narratives fostering fear and opposition instead of empathy. Renault studies also underscored the power of confirmation bias, the tendency to seek out information that reinforces our existing beliefs. In conflict situations, people are more likely to accept information that supports their view of the opposing group as dangerous or inferior, while ignoring evidence that might

Starting point is 00:10:18 humanize the other side. By understanding the psychological roots of conflict, Renaud aimed to develop strategies to bridge the divides that so often lead to violence. side. By understanding the psychological roots of conflict, Bruno aimed to develop strategies to bridge the divides that so often lead to violence. His work continues to inspire efforts to build a more empathetic and peaceful world. So now let's explore the cognitive mechanics of conflict. Empathy, dehumanization, and bias. Neil Bruno's groundbreaking research share the feelings of others,

Starting point is 00:10:56 plays a critical role in resolving conflicts. However, Bruno uncovered a troubling truth. Empathy is often biased. Through his exploration of the cognitive and emotional processes that drive conflict, Bruneau demonstrated that conflicts are frequently ignited by a failure to understand the perspective of the other. When people perceive those from a different racial, religious, or political group as fundamentally different, empathy diminishes, biases intensify, and dehumanization escalates, paving the way for violence. In group-based conflicts, people tend to feel more empathy

Starting point is 00:11:33 for members of their own group and less for those they see as outsiders. Or still, when opposing groups are dehumanized, viewed as less than human, empathy is severely diminished, making it easier to justify aggression and violence. Renault's research published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology revealed how dehumanization strips individuals of moral considerations, allowing for acts of violence to be rationalized with alarming ease. However, Renault's research didn't stop identifying the cognitive biases fueling conflict. He was deeply committed to finding ways to counteract these biases, particularly through

Starting point is 00:12:11 cultivating empathy. Let's explore these core concepts and how they can be applied to resolve conflicts of any scale. The first was using empathy as a tool for conflict resolution. For Brunot, empathy wasn't just a feel-good concept, but a powerful psychological tool capable of bridging divides between opposing groups. He defined empathy as the ability to understand and share another person's feelings. Yet in conflicts, empathy is often selective. People tend to extend empathy more easily to those within their own

Starting point is 00:12:42 group while withholding it from out-group members. This empathy gap deepens divisions and complicates conflict resolution. Renault's work focused on narrowing this gap, showing that empathy can be cultivated even in the most divided societies. His studies revealed that empathy-building exercises, such as shared storytelling, perspective taking, and direct contact between opposing groups could significantly reduce prejudice. By encouraging others to step into the shoes of the other, these interventions help dismantle

Starting point is 00:13:14 the psychological barriers that perpetuate conflict. In one experiment, Renault found that individuals who read personal stories from opposing groups exhibited increased empathy and decreased dehumanization. Renaud's work also addressed the challenge of empathy fatigue, the idea that too much empathy, especially in the face of ongoing conflicts and crisis, can lead to emotional burnout. His research suggested that while empathy for individuals can be taxing, fostering empathy

Starting point is 00:13:43 for groups through systematic and scalable interventions might offer a more sustainable path to long-term conflict resolution. So how can we apply Renault's research? In everyday situations, such as disputes with family members or colleagues, practicing empathy by actively listening to the other person's perspective can change the dynamic of the conversation. Engaging in shared storytelling or simply spending time understanding the other person's perspective can change the dynamic of the conversation. Engaging in shared storytelling or simply spending time understanding the other person's perspective can close the empathy gap, making it easier to resolve underlying issues.

Starting point is 00:14:14 In community or organizational settings, empathy-building initiatives, such as workshops that encourage participants to share their common narratives, can help bridge divides between different groups. These exercises can foster mutual understanding and reduce tensions, whether in a workplace dealing with internal conflicts or in community groups seeking to address racial or cultural divides. Second, Bruneau's work also revealed that cognitive biases like in-group favoritism, which leads individuals to favor members of their own group, and out-group hostility, which fosters negative attitudes towards those outside their group, can be counteracted

Starting point is 00:14:53 through deliberate interventions that promote positive interactions between opposing groups. By creating environments that encourage cooperation, as well as mutual understanding, individuals can challenge and reduce these inherent biases. So how can you apply this? In personal context, engaging in activities that bring you into contact with people from different backgrounds can help reduce biases. For example, volunteering for community service alongside individuals from diverse communities can foster new perspectives and build positive relationships.

Starting point is 00:15:25 In broader societal contexts, organizing community events that encourage interaction between different social, cultural, or political groups can promote understanding and reduce prejudice. Initiatives such as cross-cultural festivals, collaborative community projects, or dialogue circles can create spaces where biases are challenged and empathy is fostered. Third, one of Bruno's most significant findings was the power of perspective taking to reduce conflict. Perspective taking involves trying to see the world through another person's point of view. This doesn't mean agreeing with them, but rather understanding their thoughts, feelings, and motivations. In his book, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey emphasizes this concept

Starting point is 00:16:10 through the habit of seek first to understand, then to be understood. Covey explains that effective communication and conflict resolution begins with a genuine effort to understand the other person's perspective. This approach fosters empathy and reduces the likelihood of misunderstandings that often escalate into conflicts. So how do you apply perspective taking? In personal conflicts, when disagreements arise, making a conscious effort to understand the other person's perspective can help prevent escalation. This might involve asking questions to clarify viewpoints, or simply listening without interrupting, allowing you to address the root causes of the conflict, rather than just the symptoms. In community or international contexts, perspective-taking can be a powerful tool in diplomatic negotiations

Starting point is 00:16:56 or peace-building efforts. By understanding the historical, cultural, and political contexts of another group or nation's actions, stakeholders can reduce the risk of misinterpretations and work towards solutions that acknowledge and respect each side's concerns. And finally, Bruneau played a critical role in advancing our understanding of dehumanization, particularly its blatant forms. While modern research had shifted towards examining subtle and implicit forms of dehumanization in everyday situations, Brunot, alongside his colleague,

Starting point is 00:17:30 Noor Khateli, argued for the need to refocus attention on the more overt and explicit expressions of dehumanization. Their work highlighted the disturbing prevalence and potency of blatant dehumanization in contemporary society, urging researchers and policymakers alike to confront the issue head on. Renault's research was particularly groundbreaking because it sought to systematically assess the roots and consequences of blatant dehumanization across different cultural contexts. One of his key contributions was the development of a measure that taps into blatant dehumanization. This measure used the Ascent of Humans diagram, a popular representation of evolutionary progress, to ask participants where they believed various

Starting point is 00:18:16 groups belonged on the scale, from ape-like ancestors to fully evolved modern humans. The results were stark and revealing. Significant portions of the population rated marginalized groups such as Muslims, Palestinians, and Mexicans much lower on the scale, indicating a widespread denial of these groups' full humanity. In response to these findings, Renault's research also focused on strategies

Starting point is 00:18:42 to counteract dehumanization. He emphasized the importance of humanizing the other side by recognizing their individuality and their shared humanity. Renaud advocated for interventions that could break down the psychological barriers leading to dehumanization. These included prompting personal stories, highlighting common values, and fostering mutual interest to bridge divides. So how can you apply this research?

Starting point is 00:19:07 In personal contexts, Bruneau's research suggests that sharing personal experiences and finding common ground can be powerful tools in humanizing the other party. For example, engaging in meaningful conversations about shared challenges or values can help shift perceptions and reduce animosity. In broader societal context, Bruneau's research can be applied by encouraging media and educational initiatives that portray marginalized groups with nuance and empathy.

Starting point is 00:19:35 Balance reporting that highlights the complexities and humanity of each side in a conflict can play a critical role in combating dehumanization and fostering a more inclusive and peaceful society. Bruno's work offers a powerful framework for understanding and addressing the psychological roots of conflict. By applying these insights, we can foster empathy, counteract biases, and work towards a more peaceful, connected world.

Starting point is 00:20:02 So this begs the question of how we can apply empathy-based interventions in real-world conflicts. Emile Brunot's commitment to translating his research into real-world impact was as strong as his dedication to understanding the psychological roots of conflict. He believed that the true measure of his work lay in its ability to make a difference in the most challenging environments,

Starting point is 00:20:24 places where decades of violence, fear, and dehumanization had created deep, seemingly unbridgeable divides. By partnering with NGOs, policymakers, and conflict resolution experts, Bruneau brought his empathy-based interventions to life, offering tangible pathways to peace. One of the most challenging contexts in which Bruneau applied his strategies was the enduring conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Generations of violence and mistrust had left both sides deeply entrenched in narratives of us versus them, often dehumanizing the other in the process. Bruneau believed that breaking the cycle required a fundamental shift

Starting point is 00:21:04 in how each side viewed each other. Working closely with local peace-building organizations, Reneau helped design programs that brought Israelis and Palestinians together for structured dialogues. These encounters focused on sharing personal stories, narratives of loss, fear, and hope that humanized participants on both sides. Reneau's research showed that when individuals are exposed to personal experiences of those they might otherwise see as enemies, empathy begins to replace hostility and biases start

Starting point is 00:21:34 to fade. The impact of these interventions was profound. Participants who had previously viewed the other side as fundamentally different and less deserving of empathy began to see them as fellow human beings with shared emotions and experiences. This shift in perception reduced support for violent retaliation, marking a crucial step toward a more peaceful coexistence. Renaud also extended his work to address the refugee crisis, where millions of displaced individuals face overwhelming hostility and

Starting point is 00:22:05 dehumanization in their host countries. He recognized that empathy for refugees often diminishes as they are increasingly portrayed in negative or threatening terms by media or political rhetoric. To combat this, Renault advocated for direct, meaningful interactions between refugees and host communities, interactions that could diminish prejudices and foster understanding. In Europe, where waves of refugees from war-torn regions like Syria and Afghanistan have sought refuge, Renau collaborated with organizations to bridge the empathy gap. Programs were developed to facilitate everyday interactions between refugees and local citizens,

Starting point is 00:22:45 shared meals, community projects, and storytelling events. These interventions, informed by Bruneau's research, led to significant increases in empathy amongst host communities and a decrease in xenophobic attitudes. Bruneau's approach was not about fostering momentary sympathy, but about building lasting connections that could lead to more compassionate and inclusive communities. He showed that when people engage with refugees in a personal and meaningful way, it's possible to counteract the dehumanizing narratives

Starting point is 00:23:15 that often dominate public discourse. In addition to international conflicts, Renault's empathy-based strategies proved effective in addressing political polarization within countries, particularly in the United States. In an era marked by deep political divides, Bruneau realized that the same in-group, out-group dynamics, driving global conflicts, were at play within national borders. The challenge was to see if his empathy-driven methods could reduce tensions and foster understanding

Starting point is 00:23:44 between people with opposing political views. To test this, Bruneau worked with organizations that foster cross-partisan dialogues, creating environments where individuals from different political beliefs could engage in structured conversations. These dialogues were designed not to change minds, but to foster mutual understanding by encouraging participants to share personal stories about their political journeys rather than debating policies. The results were promising. Participants from both sides of the political spectrum reported increased empathy towards

Starting point is 00:24:17 those with differing views. They often discovered that their opponents' beliefs were rooted in personal experiences rather than malice, leading to a decrease in the demonization of the other side. Renaud's work demonstrated that even in highly polarized environments, empathy could be a powerful tool for bridging divides and reducing the toxic polarization that threatens democratic processes. So now let's discuss the enduring legacy of Emile Brunot, who created a blueprint for

Starting point is 00:24:45 peace. Emile Brunot's work has reshaped the landscape of conflict resolution, leaving a legacy far beyond academic theory. His groundbreaking research into the psychology of empathy, as well as dehumanization, has provided a transparent, actionable framework for addressing some of the world's most entrenched conflicts, whether in war-torn regions, refugee crises, or deeply polarized societies. Renaud's insights have shown that fostering empathy is not just a lofty ideal, it's a practical tool for building peace. Renaud's approach was rooted in the belief

Starting point is 00:25:19 that even the deepest divides can be bridged when we learn to see each other's humanity. His interventions, which often focused on personal storytelling and direct engagement between opposing groups, were designed to break down the psychological barriers perpetuating conflict. By encouraging people to share their stories and listen to others, Bruneau's work has demonstrated time and time again that empathy can transform relationships, reduce hostility, and pave the way for reconciliation. One of the key takeaways from Bruneau's legacy is the critical role of education in cultivating empathy and resolving conflict.

Starting point is 00:25:53 When individuals are made aware of their own cognitive biases and the psychological forces that drive conflict, they are better equipped to approach disputes with understanding and compassion. Educational initiatives focusing on conflict resolution, emotional intelligence, and critical thinking can empower people to manage disagreements constructively and foster positive community interactions. Integrating these lessons into schools, workplaces, and public discourse can build a culture that values empathy and seeks peaceful solutions to conflict. Emile Brunau's life and work remind us that peace is not the absence of conflict.

Starting point is 00:26:30 It's the active process of understanding and addressing the psychological roots of division. His research provides a roadmap for how we can engage with others in ways that promote empathy, reduce dehumanization, and ultimately resolve conflicts. As we reflect on Bruneau's contributions, the challenge is to apply these lessons to our own lives. This means committing to practices that foster empathy, such as perspective-taking and active listening, and challenging our biases

Starting point is 00:26:59 when encountering those who differ from us. Emile Bruneau's work offers hope and a clear path forward in a world that often seems divided. By embracing his strategies and making them a part of our everyday interactions, we can each contribute to creating a more empathetic and peaceful world. The time to start is now, whether in personal relationships, community engagements, or broader societal efforts.

Starting point is 00:27:24 Let's carry forward Brunot's legacy by actively working to understand and connect with those around us. In doing so, we honor his life's work and contribute to a future where empathy and peace prevail. Thank you so much for joining me today. If this episode resonated with you, I'd love you to share it with someone who could benefit from these insights. Remember, we're all in this together, And by spreading this message, we can help each other find

Starting point is 00:27:48 peace in an often chaotic media landscape. Join the conversation on social media using the hashtag passion struck and hashtag conflict resolution. You can find videos from today's episode on YouTube. And if you're looking for advertiser deals and discount codes, you can find them at passionstruck.com slash deals. Your support for our sponsors directly supports the show and it means the world to me. Don't forget to connect with me on all the socials at John R. Miles where I post daily bits of inspiration. Curious to know where you stand on your passionstruck journey?

Starting point is 00:28:18 I've created a quiz that reflects the core ideas from my latest book. It's a quick and easy way to gauge your progress. Head to passionstruck.com and take the quiz. It's just 20 questions and only takes about 10 minutes. Don't miss this amazing opportunity to learn where you are on your path. And now a sneak peek of our next episode. In remembrance of 9-11 featuring Lieutenant Commander Dan Knosson, Dan's story is one of unparalleled resistance.

Starting point is 00:28:43 From recovering from a life-altering injury in Afghanistan to becoming a Paralympic gold medalist and earning multiple degrees from Harvard, his journey is a masterclass in perseverance and the relentless pursuit of excellence. Whether you're facing your own challenges or just need some inspiration to push your limits, Dan's story will leave you empowered and ready to tackle whatever life throws your way. Don't miss this powerful conversation on turning adversity into triumph. As much as we like to think that we are national assets as operators, these missions have go and

Starting point is 00:29:16 no-go criteria. And the loss of me, it doesn't affect the no-go criteria. The mission continues. And they stayed on scene as they should and continued with the mission. But I do still to this day remember this light in my face from the flight surgeon. I don't know if he put me under immediately or if I just let myself go after all that effort of just trying to stay in the game on that drag down the hill. But I let myself go and the next thing I remember waking up in a hospital room with my mother. She'd be the way looking at me. And I didn't know, where am I? What is going on?

Starting point is 00:29:48 Remember we rise by lifting others. If you found value in today's episode, please share it with someone who can benefit from this discussion. All it takes is you sharing it with one person. Apply what you learned today, live what you listen, and we'll see you next time. As always, live life, Passion Stride.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Honoring Emile Bruneau: Using Empathy as a Path to Peace w/John R. Miles EP 504

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