Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Madison Marsh on Courage, Confidence, and Compassion

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up next on Passion Strike. Think of the people that are Olympians and the work that it took to get into something like that. The people that become the superstars, people that make the breakthroughs and research. None of that came from someone doing something easy. You don't get greatness from taking the easy path. You get it from the challenge. You get it from the days that you fail and you fall down and you suck at things and you take that and you take your weaknesses and turn it into strengths and you learn from it. You learn from the people that are better than you and I think that challenge and wanting to meet that challenge is what makes people into success. That's what

Starting point is 00:00:41 gives them that greatness because of that willingness to fail and try and get up and try again until you get it right. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles, and on the show we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors,

Starting point is 00:01:22 CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become passion struck. Hey, passion struck fam. Welcome to episode 547 of the Passion Struck Podcast. I'm your host, John Miles, and as always, I wanna begin by thanking you for being here and for your commitment to living more intentionally and passionately. Whether you've been with us from the start or tuning in for the first time,

Starting point is 00:01:49 you are part of an incredible community focused on growth, purpose, and igniting passion in every area of life. If you're new to the show, we've got over 540 episodes designed to inspire transformation. Not sure where to begin? Head over to passionstruck.com slash starter packs or Spotify to check out our episode starter packs curated by themes like leadership, mental health and personal mastery. And if you're looking for even more tools to take these lessons deeper,

Starting point is 00:02:14 sign up for my live intentionally newsletter at passionstruck.com slash newsletter where I share weekly exercises, insights and behind the scenes stories to keep you inspired. Now let's take a moment to reflect on last week's conversations, which were nothing short of transformational. First, I sat down with Jessica Zweig,

Starting point is 00:02:31 bestselling author of The Light Work. Jessica shared how embracing the concept of light has empowered her personal and spiritual growth. We talked about reframing inner darkness, unlocking infinite potential, and living a more inclusive, love-filled life. Jessica's honesty and actionable exercises make this a must-listen for anyone ready to step into their own cosmic truth.

Starting point is 00:02:51 Next, I welcomed George Apling, author of Don't Settle, How to Make the Most of Your One Extraordinary Life. George shared his insights and resilience, mindset, and intentional action to create a life that aligns with your deepest passions. His message of never settling is one we can all take to heart as we navigate our own paths to purpose. Now let's dive into today's episode, one that's sure to challenge your perspective and inspire you to redefine what's possible in your own life. We're joined by Madison Marsh, the reigning Miss America, whose journey is rewriting the playbook on what it means to serve,

Starting point is 00:03:23 inspire, and break barriers. At just 22 years old, Madison is not only the playbook on what it means to serve, inspire, and break barriers. At just 22 years old, Madison is not only the first active-duty Air Force officer to hold the title of Miss America, but also a relentless advocate for pancreatic cancer awareness and a champion for redefining stereotypes about women and pageants and the military. In this deep and compelling conversation, we explore how Madison balances the unprecedented demands of her military career with the responsibilities of being Miss America and how the Air Force supports her ability to succeed in both roles. Her path to pageantry as a passion project and the legacy of breaking barriers she's committed to continuing. The misconceptions about Miss America

Starting point is 00:04:00 and why it's so much more than crowns and gowns highlighting the immense talent, intelligence, and leadership these women bring to the table. Her personal connection to service, what led her to join the military, her pride in protecting our freedoms, and her mission to recruit the next generation by showing what's possible. Her work as the founder of the Whitney Marsh Foundation, her dedication to raising awareness for pancreatic cancer, and how she's turning personal loss into a platform for change. Madison's story is a remarkable testament of the power of purpose, the courage to challenge norms,

Starting point is 00:04:30 and the resilience to overcome life's toughest challenges. Whether you're curious about behind-the-scenes realities of balancing two high-profile careers, passionate about using your platform for advocacy, or simply looking for inspiration to live with greater intentionality, this episode will resonate deeply. So get ready to go beyond the crown and into the heart of service, legacy, and impact with Madison Marsh, Miss America. And remember, you can also watch this interview on our YouTube channels, John R. Miles and Passionstruck clips.

Starting point is 00:04:58 Let's dive in. Thank you for choosing Passionstruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now let that journey begin. I am so honored today to have Madison Marsh, Miss America, on the podcast. Welcome, Madison. Thank you so much for having me. So for my regular listeners of Passion Struck, they know I went to the Naval Academy and I always like to get the background paths to those who end up going and serving. I understand you grew up in Arkansas and you dreamed of becoming an astronaut, which I love this because one of my classmates, Chris Cassidy, was the chief astronaut. Love, Chris. What sparked

Starting point is 00:05:47 your fascination with space and how did those early ambitions shape your path to going to the Air Force Academy? I kind of fell in love with space whenever I got to go to space camp. My family sent there, I believe I was in the eighth grade and just getting to be a part of a group of people that were passionate about the same things that I was getting to be a part of that teamwork, but also getting into like the fun science of doing all of the different, we would do mock missions, pretending that we were astronauts. I got to be the bot nest and just getting to do fun things like that with people that were just as passionate as I was really sparked that desire for me to go

Starting point is 00:06:24 to the Air Force Academy. And after talking to a lot of those astronauts there, I had kind of seen their path and how they became astronauts. And one of the ways I kept hearing over and over again was this aspect of military service. So that's what got me interested in going to the Air Force Academy. And when I was a mid, my physics instructor was Wendy Lawrence. Wendy became the first Naval Academy female alumni to go to space.

Starting point is 00:06:52 And she's been my mentor now ever since, so 30 plus years. But I remember talking to her, and she told me very similarly that she saw this path to the Naval Academy, then becoming a pilot, doing all the things that she needed to become an astronaut, which she did. So you end up going to the Air Force Academy, and this is right after your mom, who we're gonna talk a lot about today, had a very heroic battle with pancreatic cancer. How did her passing in 2018 impact your journey

Starting point is 00:07:36 and your aspirations at that point? I mean, I feel like it was hard for me to understand how it was gonna impact me in the way that it did now. But I remember one of the last things that I got to tell my mom was about how I was going to go to the Air Force Academy and about all of the dreams that I had for myself. So it was like, even if she couldn't be there with me in person, she did still get to be a part of it in some way, because she had known what I wanted to go and achieve. But now I would say the biggest way that her passing has changed me is even though I don't want to be an astronaut anymore, I don't want to fly for the military. I've now had a newfound sense of purpose in life of what I love to do.

Starting point is 00:08:15 And that's working on pancreatic cancer, whether that be in or out of the uniform. And I think that's been pretty incredible getting to have her loss turned into something that could be positive for other people that can be meaningful and help their lives. And I think now that I've gotten to choose that path and I'm on a road that now feels more true to who I am and true to what I've experienced in life, it definitely makes me a lot more excited about the prospects of my future versus how it was beforehand whenever I was chasing down this astronaut path for years and years when it slowly became something that wasn't something that I was genuinely passionate about anymore.

Starting point is 00:08:53 The academies are all known for being rigorous and I remember my plebeian and the stresses that were thrown upon me. I can't imagine having to navigate that environment while still grieving the loss of a parent. How difficult was that for you during those, when you were first at the Academy? I mean, I tried to not show up on the first day of basic

Starting point is 00:09:19 because I was really afraid of what it was gonna be like to one, be grieving my mom all the way across the country And I didn't have any of my family didn't have any of my friends with me And I knew that on top of that I had all of these ways that I was using to kind of Grieve or maybe keep my mind off of it all those were being taken away from you because it's basic now Because it's time for you to focus on the training that they're gonna give you and that And that was incredibly difficult. I tried to not show up on the first day and my dad still made me go. The second day I tried to call home and told him I was quitting and he told me I couldn't come home if I quit so I had to keep going and it didn't get easier

Starting point is 00:09:58 from there. I remember I mean all throughout my first semester freshman year I wanted to transfer to a different school that was going to be closer to home so I could be there for my little sister, for my dad. And it really wasn't until second semester of my dually year that I really started to fall in love with the place and fall in love with what they were providing me. That was when I met Dr. Anderson, who's been a tremendous mentor to me that has really led me through so many important places in my life. And also met my now fiance and soon to be husband.

Starting point is 00:10:31 And I think getting to have those people that supported me there. Made that path of grieving a whole lot easier. Cause then I had people that I could actually lean on and confide in when the days of the Academy just sucked. I have written a book called Passionstruck and in it I describe my experience at the Naval Academy and the importance that grit had, the combination of perseverance and passion at helping me get through. How did your early struggles at the Academy help you develop grit and help you become who you are today.

Starting point is 00:11:07 I think some of it is a little bit against your own will because when you're there, you have no choice but to keep going. And on top of that, there were a lot of people that I promised that I was going to make it through. I promised my mom that I was going to graduate from the Air Force Academy, that I was gonna do all of these things. And then beyond that, I think in the beginning phases of the Academy, it might be external, as in someone else is forcing you to be gritty and forcing you to be resilient,

Starting point is 00:11:37 because you have no choice. And slowly over time at the Academy, it becomes more of an internal process of you're going through the suck because you believe in the process because you love it and you love the challenge. And that's over time, kind of what I finally got to be able to see and appreciate about the Academy because nothing good ever comes easy. And I love that aspect about it, because when you're

Starting point is 00:12:02 done, and you push through the hard stuff, you feel so much prouder at the end, you actually earn something. And I think the Air Force Academy is similar to the Naval Academy in that you're judged on your academics, of course, but you're also judged on your military bearing. And then there's always a physical component to it as well. So what people don't understand about the grading system is it's much more complex. So when I was there, our grades compared to people at civilian schools were much lower because of the different elements of it. But it is definitely a challenging time and there are often aspects of it where you're trying to seek out fun because you have so much stress on you

Starting point is 00:12:46 that you're looking for an escape. For me, I kind of did that because I was a division one runner, but even with that, that brings on even more stress. And as I've done research on you, your interest in Padre Tree came during this challenging time as an outlet for fun and personal growth. Is that correct? Yes. So how did you end up doing that? Because looking back, I just can't imagine

Starting point is 00:13:17 doing everything that we had to do and then layering another challenge on top of it where you would have to prep and do all the things that you do. So how did you go about that? I mean, I would say a lot of my prep overlapped with other areas of my life, because I mean, at the Air Force Academy, obviously in any military capacity, you have to be physically fit. So there wasn't ever like, oh, I need to be fit for stage. It was I need to be fit year round so I can continue serving in the military. And then when it came to interview prep, I was already doing interview prep for all of my

Starting point is 00:13:53 scholarships that I was applying for. During my time at the Academy, I was an astronaut scholar, ended up becoming a Truman scholar, and then a Rhodes finalist. And those interviews are tough. And I remember every day after school, we had a public speaking lab at the Academy for free. And I would just go in and I would have them grill me on any political question, any question on my resume that they could think of. And so when it came time to prepare for a pageant, I was already doing the work.

Starting point is 00:14:22 I was just now showing off the work that I had put in in a very different and unconventional way that you don't typically see in the military. My plebe year roommate, we were company mates the entire time I was there, was a Rhodes Scholar, and I know just how rigorous it was for him to go through that process. So congratulations for you for doing that.

Starting point is 00:14:43 This whole podcast is really about how intentional choices shape who we become. And you're just removed from the Air Force Academy and right now all the services are having issues with recruitment and the same thing goes with the service academies, the number of people who are applying in some ways is down from what it used to be. What made you have the intentional choices

Starting point is 00:15:11 to pursue these passions? And how would you recommend young listeners who might be tuning in today could make the decision to pursue something hard, like going to the Air Force Academy or like trying out for a pageantry, because I think oftentimes we end up taking the easier path.

Starting point is 00:15:35 I mean, I've personally always liked the challenge because you feel proud of what you've accomplished when you finish. I mean, think of the people that are Olympians and the work that it took to get into something like that. The people that become the superstars, people that make the breakthroughs and research, none of that came from someone doing something easy. You don't get greatness from taking the easy path. You get it from the challenge, you get it from the days that you fail and you fall down

Starting point is 00:16:08 and you suck at things and you take that and you take your weaknesses and turn it into strengths and you learn from it. You learn from the people that are better than you. And I think that challenge and wanting to meet that challenge is what makes people into success. That's what gives them that greatness because of that willingness to fail and try and get up and try again until you get it right. And I think that comes with anything,

Starting point is 00:16:32 but at the end of it, you also have to be passionate about what you're doing. Obviously the military is not gonna be for everybody. Pageants aren't going to be for everybody, but I can guarantee everyone has their little niche thing that they're interested in, a passion of theirs, and that's when you pour into that challenge. I mean, for me, I'm really passionate about my nonprofit

Starting point is 00:16:53 and all the time I'm trying to figure out ways that we can be better, figuring out the ways that I've messed up and how I can be a better leader the next time around, the next day, the next week, the next year, and that really applies to anything in your life. So of course I would love for more people to join the military, but at the end of it, there, if you're not passionate about that, there are definitely other ways to still

Starting point is 00:17:15 serve our country and also find that challenge and impact. I love how you bring up the suck because that's something that's a famous slogan of the seal teams embrace the suck because that's something that's a famous slogan of the seal teams embrace the suck. And I think people think about seals and they think they go through Bud's basic underwater demolition school and they immediately get the trident and that's not the case. Typically it takes another 18 months, two years to finally pin on the trident. And I have many friends and classmates who are SEALs and what they tell me is anyone can get through a day of SEAL training. What the difficulty comes is as you're describing is it's getting up every single day realizing that you're going to have to endure the suck

Starting point is 00:18:01 and facing it and having the willpower to get through it and persevering and that's what shapes them. The same thing is what you're describing shapes any passion that you want to do so thanks for bringing that up. And many people have misconceptions about pageants and you have said as I've listened to and watched in other interviews, that pageantry shares many of the same core values with the military, such as leadership, public speaking, community service. What do you think people misunderstand the most about pageants and what surprised you

Starting point is 00:18:39 when you got involved? And there are a lot of things that I think people don't understand, but it's also, I don't blame anyone for that. Obviously the community of pageants is very small. It's just like maybe a lot of people have misconceptions about the military because they're not in the military.

Starting point is 00:18:54 It's kind of the same thing. I think a lot of people still have those stereotypes about women who compete in pageants that maybe they're very vain or that they might not be very intelligent. And I think through competing in pageants, I have met some incredibly passionate and intelligent young women who are impacting their communities

Starting point is 00:19:16 in so many different ways than I could have ever imagined. I mean, if you watch one night of Miss America and listen to the girls talking about their community service initiatives and the ways that they're impacting their communities. It's incredible because that's real work that's going back to hometowns all across America to help people who are in need. And I love that because one of the things I always spoke to my cadets about at the Air Force Academy is finding ways to serve outside of your uniform. I think when you're at the Academy you

Starting point is 00:19:44 sometimes forget that life exists beyond the black gates and the confines of where you exist. And being able to sometimes realize that you can give back to your immediate community. And that doesn't have to necessarily come in the form of military service. That could be showing up to take care of your family, your siblings, your loved ones,

Starting point is 00:20:05 coming home for dinner and serving them in that way. Or maybe you're the person that's gonna go out and volunteer every Saturday. Or maybe you're gonna give up a couple days a month to go volunteer and serve your immediate community in that way. There are a lot of ways that we can interplay that in the military and those are lessons that I was also taught

Starting point is 00:20:24 from competing in pageants. Thank you for sharing that and becoming Miss America is no small feat and I think that there's this stereotype that people have about Miss America that they would think that you're different from a lot of the women who compete but as I have come to understand it as I women who compete. But as I have come to understand it, as I have been studying this more and more, the talents that the women have are incredible. And the questions that you guys are asked

Starting point is 00:20:54 during the competition really require a deep intellect to be able to answer them. I was hoping that maybe you can talk about that experience and some of the questions that were thrown at you and some of the other women who competed. Absolutely. I remember my preliminary night question for my community service initiative was to talk about how I saw artificial intelligence interplaying with early detection of pancreatic cancer research. And that's something that you have to answer right on the spot in front of a crowd. And it's gonna, by the way,

Starting point is 00:21:28 exist on video for the rest of your life. So you gotta hope you don't mess it up. So that's kind of the things that you have to prepare for all of the time. And then my finals night question after I had made the top 11, they actually ended up switching up the way that we did the questions.

Starting point is 00:21:42 So they weren't gonna be about our community service initiatives anymore. We basically played musical chairs, and then whatever chair you sat down in, you would hold up the number that was sitting there, and behind you would be a hot topic in America. And mine was about drugs in America. All it says is drugs in America, and you have a minute and a half, I believe, to respond to everything.

Starting point is 00:22:02 And my specialty, obviously, is not specifically in maybe the drug crisis happening in America, but I had the opportunity and the training to recognize I knew about different types of drugs in America, specifically cancer drug therapies and kind of the ways that we have major gaps in our system specifically pertaining to pancreatic cancer. And so I had the opportunity to speak on that.

Starting point is 00:22:26 So constantly your wheels are always turning to see in what ways does the question that's being asked apply to some facet of your life and your passion so that people come away remembering your answer. The other thing that I think was so unique about your approach to the pageant was your talent performance. You did a monologue about your first solo flight, which was really, I thought, unconventional, but very impactful. What inspired that choice and how did you prepare to deliver such a unique performance? Well, I couldn't sing or dance and you have to have a talent to compete in Miss America. So I thought to give a speech about something, but I knew you can't just give any normal

Starting point is 00:23:10 speech. Like if I were to talk to you about what my solo flight was actually like, people would probably be a little bit bored because it would be monotonous. And so the way that you take a speech and you elevate that is you really have to turn it into a performance. It's no longer just a speech that you might be giving you really have to turn it into a performance. It's no longer just a speech that you might be giving like a keynote speech at a conference. It has to truly be a performance to put people where you are, bring them in and keep them listening and not looking away for that entire minute and a half.

Starting point is 00:23:38 So I ended up meeting up, I had coaches that actually were previous actors or performers and kind of having them help me take something of me just talking about what it was like at the age of 16 to fly and turning it into something that was going to impact people or make them think twice. And I think what's been really cool is even though my talent might have been a little bit controversial to people, it's been really awesome hearing from these little girls now saying, oh, well, I kind of want to join the military or maybe I want to get into flying.

Starting point is 00:24:10 I didn't really see that as a path for myself but after watching that performance, it seems so fun. Like I really want to try it out. And I think that's pretty cool because now if my little minute and a half could have inspired some young girls to go into aviation, then it was worth it. And I've heard you talk about people have asked you the question, how do you feel about being a boundary breaker? And you always go to all the women who preceded you and

Starting point is 00:24:36 all the other leaders who preceded you to break boundaries. But what you have done is pretty remarkable to be the first active duty military officer to earn this title. What does it mean to break this barrier and how have those others before you inspired your journey? I feel like the people that have come before me have made us extremely privileged.

Starting point is 00:24:59 I can't even grasp what it was like for the women who were the first ones to go to the Air Force Academy. I will never know what that's like. And I was extremely privileged to just always assume that I had the opportunity to go and apply and attend the school. And I didn't have to fight for anything. So thanks to them and all the ones that had come before that to give us that because it's still impacting us in ways that we honestly take for granted all of the time.

Starting point is 00:25:26 We're the first women that joined the military. I take for granted being able to get up every day and just put my uniform on. And so now, I mean, those people were true groundbreakers, stereotype breakers. They opened up doors for so many women to follow them. But I think what I've realized about this past year is maybe I don't necessarily see myself. I see them not even close to what they accomplished for young women, but at the same time,

Starting point is 00:25:56 you don't have to be a big first or have a fancy title to change perceptions of people and to open up doors for other people. Because even though, I mean, after I won, I thought, oh, maybe all it's going to be is just a flashing news headline. But it ended up turning into me being able to give hope to some other young women to show them that you don't have to sacrifice your personality or your passions in life to put on the uniform. And I think anybody can do that. You don't have to be Miss America

Starting point is 00:26:26 or have some other big title to make a difference in other people's lives. Just showing up and doing what you love can open up so many doors for other people. And I think that is just as impactful as being the first. Anybody has the ability to do that. I think that's such an important message. And I'll go back to my story about Wendy Lawrence, who became an astronaut.

Starting point is 00:26:49 She was in the second class of females at the Naval Academy. I think it was the class of 81. And to put even more pressure on her father was the superintendent during that time. So I can't even imagine what that would have been like, especially when he kept showing up on the hall to go visit her or would call her on the phone and they come to her room and say, the soup's on the phone for you. But I also interviewed vice-admiral Sandy Stoes, who was one of the first females to graduate from the Coast Guard Academy ended up coming back to be their superintendent.

Starting point is 00:27:27 And she told me that typically during that time, about 60% of Coast Guard graduates would make it through. But for the first classes of females, it was under 30% just because they were harassed and tried to push out so much. So just hearing their stories and how they had, I guess they felt that they had to be even better to make it through and to push through is just an amazing story for both of them to see where they've ended up. So one of the things that being Miss America allows you to do is to have a platform of sorts because you're on all kinds of media programs.

Starting point is 00:28:17 In this one year, I can't even imagine what it's been like, the whirlwind you've been through. But for you, it's allowed you to do something that's very personal and has the ability to influence people worldwide. That is to talk about the Whitney Marsh Foundation that was founded in memory of your mom, which is such a powerful and personal initiative.

Starting point is 00:28:42 Can you tell us how that began and what you hope to achieve through its work? Absolutely. My mom passed away in 2018 whenever she was only 41 from pancreatic cancer. And about two weeks afterwards, my family was trying to figure out how we were going to deal with this loss and how we could turn it into something positive for other people. And that was how the Whitney Marsh Foundation was born. My mom was a really big runner and we wanted to make sure that we encapsulated

Starting point is 00:29:09 her actual personality and her passions and things that she really loved in life into the nonprofit. So one of the main ways that we've raised money over the past six years has been through hosting a 5K, 10K to bring people together, doing something that my mom loved but also promoting some of those healthy lifestyles that can hopefully maybe prevent against things

Starting point is 00:29:28 like different forms of cancer. But now looking towards the future, we recognize that Arkansas might be a underrepresented state when it comes to cancer care. We don't have one of the MD Intersons or the Johns Hopkins or anything of that nature. And we wanna make sure that people don't have to leave our state to get the care that they need.

Starting point is 00:29:49 So what I would love to see is the Whitney Marsh foundation becomes one of the leading nonprofits for pancreatic cancer care in the state of Arkansas. So that we're able to bring in those resources. We're able, if people do have to leave the state, then maybe we can be the ones that are going to pay for their travel so that people aren't having to have that financial burden be a barrier to the care that they need to receive. And that's such a noble mission. I have a friend, Bill, who has fought cancer now six times, and I actually had

Starting point is 00:30:19 them on this program, but what he told me, I hadn't really thought about it through this lens, is that you have to look when you're fighting cancer almost as if it becomes a business. Because people don't realize that in order to get the treatment, you need to go to the best place that they can provide it. And oftentimes, as you're saying, that's not in close proximity to you. So you have to figure out the logistics of how do you get there? How do you cover the costs? How do you get people to care for your home and potentially pets and other things

Starting point is 00:30:55 while you're going there or if you have kids, et cetera? So there's a real need to have cancer treatment closer to where people live because it's difficult to get that support. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, we saw whatever my mom went through, we did have to send her outside of the state to get care. And it's been really unfortunate because we know a lot of people in our state might not be able to afford to fly outside of Arkansas. Maybe they don't have the ability to take off multiple days of work to go receive care from elsewhere. And that is so unfortunate because everyone deserves

Starting point is 00:31:33 the right and the opportunity to survive. But with a disease like pancreatic cancer, with it being as difficult as it is to treat, to detect, to cure, you do have to go sometimes to those best places. And I want everyone to treat, to detect, to cure. You do have to go sometimes to those best places. And I want everyone to be able to have that same opportunity that my family had. Obviously we don't have any perfect answers or solutions right now, but that is gonna be our goal

Starting point is 00:31:55 and mission as a nonprofit moving forward. People who are regular listeners to this know that my sister passed away earlier this year, also from pancreatic cancer. She first developed it when she was 46. And I remember when she had, after she'd gotten the Whipple surgery and it ended up coming back, she was really put in this place after they did several rounds of chemo that she had to do clinical trials. And I remember she was having to do it in San Antonio, which meant that in order to do that,

Starting point is 00:32:28 the logistics were twice a month, she had to find a way to get down there to San Antonio. She had a son who was in middle school. So it was very challenging. So I just look at what she went through and how important that could be. So because of your mom and my sister, you and I are both,

Starting point is 00:32:49 we both hold pancreatic cancer awareness and research close to our hearts. And I know we both try to support PanCAN as much as we can, who has made some huge strides in both increasing the awareness and prolonging the lifespan of so many people who are faced with this devastating disease. What progress do you see is being made in pancreatic cancer research and treatment and how can people support this cause? I mean one thing that I've seen at least over the past six years has been that rise in survival rate.

Starting point is 00:33:25 Even though it's been slow, it has been a steady increase. And I think that gives me a lot of hope because I talked to Julie Fleshman, the CEO of PanCan about this a lot. What I always look towards is breast cancer where they were 40 years ago, because that's kind of where pancreatic cancer is sitting now. Forty years ago, breast cancer was basically a death sentence. I mean there wasn't high survival rates, there really wasn't anything going on in the field and look at where it is now. The money that's put into it, the research, the early detection avenues, the survival rate, how drastically it's increased,

Starting point is 00:34:04 that's the hope that I see for pancreatic cancer, because even though we're slow and steady right now, I think now that we've been able to break those first initial barriers to getting people to be more educated about it, to have more awareness, to get more researchers involved, I think that's only now opening up more and more doors to accelerate the needs that we can meet in the coming years. I think that's so important. And I think one of the keys to pancreatic cancer is early detection because the most

Starting point is 00:34:35 feasible treatment that they can give you is the Whipple surgery, which has had the most profound effect on people having longevity, yet it's often caught so late. And I'm happy to hear that there are companies like EpiOne who have now found blood work tests that people can take that will tell you if you've got the precursors for this so that you can get examined more regularly if you are one of those people who meet those criteria and I hope so much more of that comes. Plus, I really hope that they find a way that they can utilize immunotherapy and find ways to penetrate the membrane of pancreatic cancer, which has been really problematic in treating

Starting point is 00:35:21 it with chemotherapy, immunotherapy, and everything else. So those are some of the big things I hope to see in the future. So you have really used your platform to amplify the foundation's mission. What do you think has been the most rewarding moment in your advocacy journey so far? One of the parts that I've really loved this year is whenever people get to come up and share some of their own stories with me and saying, Oh, I heard you talking about this on the news. And I want to tell you about a person that I loved

Starting point is 00:35:57 and lost a pancreatic cancer because even though it's not a community or club you necessarily want to be a part of. I think the family that I've been able to gain from the Pancreatic Cancer World has been pretty incredible. And a moment that I've personally also really loved this year was at our race. I've never had any survivors ever come to Whitney's race before, and this year we had multiple. They had never met each other before

Starting point is 00:36:26 and then ended up seeing on their t-shirts saying survivor. So them and their families and their spouses, they all walked together. And there's this one photo of a survivor that I met and getting to hear his story of him walking across the finish line with his hand in the air. And I just think getting to see photos like that gives us a lot of hope for what we can achieve.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And I know it's definitely shown to my volunteers, this is what we are working towards. We want this guy's story to amplify and be like just like every other patient's. And that's been pretty incredible to get to see. I had Maria Menounos on the podcast earlier this year to highlight her journey. And I'm really grateful for the work that she is also doing to try to help get the word out about this with the platform that she has.

Starting point is 00:37:15 Are there additional stories from the Pan Can family that you'd like to share of inspiration and to give listeners hope? I mean, I would say if anyone's going to listen to any of the stories, they should go hear it right from the mouth. There are pages on PanCAN's website of testimonies of survivors. Also on our page at the foundation, we run a newsletter every single month,

Starting point is 00:37:42 and that typically includes interviews either from survivors or family members and their stories and experiences with pancreatic cancer because we wanna remember everybody's story. We wanna highlight those, give people hope, but also give people the opportunity to memorialize the people that they love. And so we have that on our page and on PanCAN's page.

Starting point is 00:38:04 And I think reading through all of those stories always recenters me to my passion, my purpose and our mission towards a better future for all pancreatic cancer patients. I mean, those stories are truly inspirational and thank you for highlighting that. And I'll make sure we put all the resources to PanCAN and the past interviews that I've done in here as well, because I've had Julie on the podcast and the chief science officer

Starting point is 00:38:29 and some other members as well of their community. So I want to go back to Miss America for a second. I have a classmate from the Naval Academy who ended up playing professional football for the Green Bay Packers actually won a Super Bowl ring. And I know for him, he had a lot of trial and tribulation trying to convince the secretary of the Navy at the time to allow him to play. It wasn't the easiest thing for him to do. I understand from following you that as you were pursuing this, you were very open with the Air Force about the fact that you were doing the pageant.

Starting point is 00:39:11 You went to your commanding officer and leadership chain and kind of said, the chances of me becoming Miss America are very slim, one out of 50 to, but you wanted to prepare for it, et cetera. So how has the air force supported your role as miss America? I wouldn't get to be miss America without the air force's support and so many different ways. One, I wouldn't have been able to achieve this without the mentors at the academy, without all the lessons that I had learned from the Air Force,

Starting point is 00:39:46 but also kind of what you just mentioned about how they had helped me prepare for the opportunity. I remember after I, even going to prepare for Miss Colorado, I was talking to my commanders about that to make sure I had all the tools and resources to make sure that everybody was aware of what we were getting into. And then afterwards, preparing them for Miss America to come up with some sort of

Starting point is 00:40:09 mock plan of what we would want my year to look like so that it would be worth our time. We could get all the use out of it for what the Air Force needed to meet and to ensure that I'm still meeting the standards as an officer because I also made it clear to them that yes, this is my side passion, obviously, but the Air Force comes officer because I also made it clear to them that yes this is my side passion obviously but the Air Force comes first because I made a promise to serve, signed my name on that dotted line and that was my duty and my mission first above all else. So if the pageant wasn't going to be able to fit into it then I would have turned down the opportunity, gone back to school and gone back into my service. But luckily the Air Force did see the value and this opportunity and the types

Starting point is 00:40:50 of recruiting that we could change the mission and bring into our Air Force. So we had spoken about it in the months beforehand, lots of people got involved. And then after I won, I called the lawyers and the Air Force to let them know that what we had been preparing for actually happened and let my commanders know. And they quickly got to work with all of the people at the Pentagon. And my congressman, I believe, ended up giving a call to the secretary of the Air Force to talk about what this could look like and the impact that we could have if they kept me on active duty.

Starting point is 00:41:24 So I'm really lucky that they did because the Air Force has truly taken care of me so much this year. And I know my new commanders that have taken on this position to lead me through the Miss America process have really taken me in like family. And it always made sure that above all else, they were able to put my wellbeing first.

Starting point is 00:41:43 And I think that has meant a tremendous amount to me now recognizing the impact that it's had and how I can carry that into when I get to lead people again after this year is over. It's got to be a lot doing this and being in the military full time. How do you balance doing both? And how do you put 100% into being able to do both? Well, I wouldn't be able to do it without the air force. They are constantly working to make sure that I'm in regs within the guidelines that I'm following everything, staying legal.

Starting point is 00:42:19 They're the ones they're like hawks eyes there. Now I've gotten really good at like flagging things before they even happened because they were recognizing potential problems 10 steps ahead of everybody else. And I think that has really helped me stay in both of those positions. But even more so than that, I think downtime is the biggest thing. People don't recognize how draining any sort of job can be. And I think giving your people back time to recharge and be with their families is an incredible gift to get people filled up again to be ready to do the job. And the Air Force saw that, I mean, I think my commuters truly recognize that this year. So any time that they could to figure out

Starting point is 00:43:06 where they could be able to give me some time off or give time back, because I had been working for so many extra days, I had given weekends up, they wanted to make sure that I was able to take the time to be with my loved ones, to recharge at home. And that's how you make both the jobs work. And I think that's a big lesson I'm gonna be taking

Starting point is 00:43:24 and to when I go back full-time into a normal Air Force job after Miss America is over to make sure that my people come first every time. People are the most incredible resource that the Air Force has, that the military has. You can't buy enough people and the time and the mission and the passion they are willing to give back So you have to give to them to make sure that they're able to do that job Well, you have to make sure that if you're calling them in to work extra hours and give up their time that as a leader You are going to be there doing it with them And if you are gonna be asking them to give a lot of that time up

Starting point is 00:44:01 Find ways that you can give things back to them to keep them recentered on the mission, able to continue filling up their cup and giving back in the best way that they can show up for your people and they will show up to do their job. I think that's such an important message, whether you're in the military or you're a leader overseeing people in a civilian role, it's showing up for the people around you. And I think that's one of the reasons we have so much disengagement today is because people don't feel like they hold significance in their roles. They don't feel like the companies treat them as if they matter and

Starting point is 00:44:37 that what they're doing is important and that being reinforced and people being treated for their individual talents. So I think you're really on to something there with what you were just talking about. Looking back when you first won this award, you knew if you were going to win it that you were going to be thrust into the lime light, you were going to have to be on all these TV programs, et cetera, but once you went from imagining it to actually doing it, how big a chasm did that turn out to be? I mean, it was pretty scary to be totally honest.

Starting point is 00:45:18 I try to keep a lot of my personal life still private. And when people get super excited about everything in Miss America or happening in the Air Force the media really wants to draw out all these things and I remember the first week I had reporters finding out where I lived in my hometown back in Arkansas and they were trying to come into our house and figure out where I went to school so they could go into the school and find yearbook photos and go through every little small detail of my life and I did not like that.

Starting point is 00:45:50 So I made sure to set some lines up with my family and also with the press. I knew that my fiance didn't want to be in a lot of the photos that were being handed out to the press, so making sure we were keeping that private or I didn't want people going through all of my childhood and high school photos. So please don't give them all the addresses so they can go find things about me and then especially when it comes to negative press and negative media, because that has happened a lot this year. I have told my family, I don't want to see it and I don't want to hear about it because I can't change people's public opinion

Starting point is 00:46:30 and what they're saying about me. I can only do what I do, show up, do it well and work hard. And sometimes that's not gonna be enough for people. And I had a hard line with them that if they see something, please do not tell me because it's not going to change what they've said or what they've done. Um, and I need to stay recentered and focused on the job and the mission that's currently at hand and in front of me.

Starting point is 00:46:55 I used to go to church in Austin, Texas with Matthew McConaughey. And for about 18 months, he got to come religiously and be himself with his kids and his wife. And it was fantastic because he was just, he just wanted to go to church. He just wanted to have a place where he could be himself, I felt by observing him. And then all of a sudden, I guess some people put up social media posts that they had seen him there. And so the paparazzi started showing up and I really felt bad for him. And being in this role, it's got to give you some understanding of what it's like to be

Starting point is 00:47:37 a celebrity and the challenges that they face. What's one thing that you would say to listeners about when someone's in that position, a lot of people say, Matthew, he's this movie star, he deserves the scrutiny that he gets and he shouldn't have a public life. He shouldn't have a private life. Everything should be public. What do you say about that now that you've lived it? I've gotten a very small taste of everything this year. And I think that the grass is always greener. I think that people think that every, they see everything through

Starting point is 00:48:12 rose colored glasses and say, Oh, well, they can't complain about X, Y, and Z because they got to have that position or they got to be famous or they got X amount of followers. And none of that matters because at the end of the day this is coming off in a month from now and I'm going to go right back to just being Madison Marsh not any of the titles or the accolades nothing I'll just as I have always been just me and understanding that even though people might get to have that fame or the fortune that people still go through individual struggles and everyone has a right to privacy no matter how much they put out in the public world. Everyone has a right to just

Starting point is 00:48:53 be a human and enjoy time with their family and get to just be them and not have to have the burden of their job because luckily enough for majority of the world when you take off from work every day you get to go back to being just you but for them maybe it seems like they have to do it 24 7 they always have to be on they always have to be thinking about who's watching who's taking photos and so giving those people that time and that ability to just be themselves because we'll never be able to understand what that's like for them. But we can be a little bit more gracious and forgiving to people to make sure that everyone

Starting point is 00:49:30 gets to have some sort of a fair experience. As the face of the Air Force, which you've become, probably not even wanting to be that, but it's literally what you've become. And Miss America, how do you see your role in inspiring the next generation to consider military service? And what message do you hope to share with potential recruits about the opportunities and values in the Air Force, but in all the services? Having to go and work with recruiting this year, obviously we always talk about we want more people, but what I want not necessarily quantity, but I want quality candidates. I want

Starting point is 00:50:16 people that are genuinely passionate about serving the United States and putting the uniform on, because I never know maybe the person that I'm talking to is going to end up getting deployed with my fiance or one of my best friends in the air force and their ability to work hard, follow orders and be courageous and be a leader to others, that could potentially be the difference of life or death for some of my friends that are going to serve alongside them. So I want good quality candidates. I want people that want the challenge that are willing to work hard, that are

Starting point is 00:50:48 willing to have sucky things happen to them in their service and know how to get through it and band together with the people beside them. That's who I'm looking for. I want leaders of character joining the military. Thank you so much for that. And I completely agree with you. We need leaders of character protecting the military. Thank you so much for that. And I completely agree with you. We need leaders of character protecting our freedom. So we started this whole episode talking about outer space

Starting point is 00:51:13 and your desire to become an astronaut. And I wanna use that to lead into a quote that I've heard you talk about. You said, the sky is not the limit and the only person stopping you is you. How has this philosophy guided you through the challenges you faced and how do you hope to inspire others to embrace the mindset in their own lives? I would say you're probably going to find at least one person, if not multiple in your life, who maybe don't believe in you, have maybe

Starting point is 00:51:43 instilled doubt, but really at the end of the day that opinion doesn't matter. What other people want you to do with your life doesn't matter. I know I've gotten a lot of pushback this year for saying I'm not going to pilot training anymore, but at the end of the day, at the end of my life, the only person whose life I'm going to live is mine and the only life that you are going to live is yours. So stop living for other people, stop living for their praise, for the accolades and just find something that you actually care about, that you're passionate about. Because I can tell you right now you are going to do a much better job if you do something that you care about and you work hard at it.

Starting point is 00:52:23 Because whenever you combine that passion with your purpose, you are able to become more resilient to produce a better product, to impact the world in ways that you could never imagine. So focus on that. Focus on the true meaning of what it means to live your life and stop living to somebody else's definition of success. Because if you do that,

Starting point is 00:52:43 you are never going to find success. You're always gonna be chasing the next thing and the next thing and the next thing instead of living in the moment and defining to you what it means to succeed. Oftentimes, what gets to become the barrier for people pursuing their dreams or not is self-belief. What would be your advice to listeners and viewers

Starting point is 00:53:04 on how you would suggest they build that self-belief. What would be your advice to listeners and viewers on how you would suggest they build that self-belief that they can do anything they put their mind to? For me, it's always been about proving myself right. I never enter into things to prove somebody else wrong. It's all about, I know that I come in with the skills that could enable me to do anything should I work hard and do it right. Not everyone's gonna be gifted to be great at things naturally. I know that I wasn't gifted to be naturally good at school.

Starting point is 00:53:35 I remember, I think it was maybe back in elementary school, I was performing really poorly in my classes and somehow throughout high school, recognizing that my weaknesses don't have to remain as weaknesses. I can lean on other people, I can go to tutors, I can go to my classmates that are better at that subject than me to learn from them and get better and that's how you build that self-confidence because you begin to realize that you don't always have to

Starting point is 00:54:03 continue quote failing at something. You can use those failures and turn them into success stories because you work hard at them. You are the only person that gets to define how you succeed. So don't give up on yourself now because you're only cutting out a potential story that could lead you to the greatest accomplishment or greatest experience of your life. Okay and the last thing I just want to ask you and leave with is your mom. What's a little thing that she did that stayed with you forever? I would say even towards the end of her life, she was always focused on other people.

Starting point is 00:54:42 There was a note that we had found in her phone that she had written to herself after her Whipple surgery was cancelled and her note was not focused on wishing she could have achieved just one more thing or wishing she would have stayed at work a little bit longer or sent off another text or an email. She was worried about her family, how we were going to continue on after she passed away, wishing that she had more time with us to just create memories. And I think that means a lot to me because I feel like we all kind of get stuck

Starting point is 00:55:13 in this race of going to the next achievement, going and getting the next thing, and continuing to run and run and never recognizing the true importance of life of what is directly in front of you and that is creating a life of meaning with people that are meaningful to you right in front of you. My mom if she got to be here today she wouldn't be worried about winning Miss America or winning a Rhodes scholarship or staying after work just a little bit later to get ahead, she would be worried about, can I have an extra meal with my family this weekend? And so that truly re-centers me after this year because success means nothing if you don't have anybody to come home to. And me getting to come home to my family, getting to come home to my fiance and sharing

Starting point is 00:56:03 these moments with him, that's what gives this meaning is getting to share that with people, getting to create moments of purpose for other people that get to follow behind us. That is how you create meaning in life. It's not about the accomplishment itself. It's about what you can do for other people, how you can serve other people and create a life full of love. And that's going gonna stick with me forever thanks to how my mom really just carried out her life

Starting point is 00:56:30 up until the very end. Well, I think Webster should put in under psychological wealth, what you just talked about, because that's really what it is. Well, Madison, thank you so much for being here and congratulations again. And I know you're probably happy and sad to see this phase of your life come to a close, but I'm sure you're exhausted at this point.

Starting point is 00:56:54 Thank you again for coming on the show. It was really an honor to have you. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. What an inspiring conversation with Madison Marsh. Her story of breaking barriers as the first active duty Air Force officer crowned Miss America, her relentless advocacy for pancreatic cancer awareness, and her ability to balance service, leadership, and purpose is nothing short of extraordinary. Madison's journey reminds us of the power of resilience and tensionality in using our passions to make a difference in the lives of others. As you reflect on today's episode, think about this. What legacy do you want to leave? How can you take your passions and transform them into a purpose that not only fulfills you, but also serves others? Like

Starting point is 00:57:33 Madison demonstrated, our challenges don't define us. They shape the mission we're called to fulfill. All the links to Madison's work, including the Whitney Marsh Foundation and her advocacy for pancreatic cancer awareness, will be in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use those links to learn more. It's a great way to support her mission and the show. You can also find this episode and more on YouTube and check out our sponsors and exclusive deals at passionstruck.com slash deals. Supporting those who support the show helps us keep bringing you these impactful conversations. For more resources to help you live a purpose-driven life, head over to passionstruck.com where you can take our Passion Struck quiz or sign up for the Live Intentionally newsletter packed with weekly insights, exercises, and challenges to ignite your potential. If

Starting point is 00:58:13 Madison's story resonated with you, please take a moment to leave a five-star rating and review. It makes a huge difference in helping us reach others with these powerful stories. And don't forget to share this episode with someone who could use a dose of inspiration and encouragement today. Now here's a sneak peek of what's coming up next on Passion Struck. I'm joined by Caroline Adams Miller, a trailblazing expert in the field of positive psychology and goal setting, an author of Big Goals, the Science of Setting Them, Achieving Them, and Creating Your Best Life.

Starting point is 00:58:40 And our conversation will dive into the science of achieving big goals, cultivating grit, and finding lasting happiness. Caroline's practical insights and actionable strategies will help you push past mediocrity and unlock your best life. People think SMART goals is a thing and it's not. It was a guy in the 80s, George Doran, consultant, just wrote an article for a management magazine and he created an acronym that was sticky an article for a management magazine and he created an acronym that was sticky, but it's what I call jargon mishmash syndrome. That acronym means different things all over the world, relatable, realistic. It could be measurable, meaningful. There is no one acronym that fits time with us today. Remember the fee for the show is simple. If you found value in today's episode, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Let's keep building this community and living what we listen. Until next time, live life, passion strong.

Passion Struck with John R. Miles - Madison Marsh on Courage, Confidence, and Compassion

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