Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2001 Super Bowl: Patriots vs Rams - PART 1

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

Who better to talk about the Patriots first Super Bowl victory than with someone who was actually there? Join the Brown brothers as they try not to embarrass themselves while interviewing the podcast's most famous guest, former Patriot linebacker Matt Chatham.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown and while I have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons, and of course Michael, sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny. But really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother.

Alright, so this is, like we've talked about, the super special episode. We've only gotten to our first Super Bowl of the dynasty. And with us today, we have no offense to our other guests, but probably our most famous guest, I would say, former Patriots linebacker and three-time Super Bowl champion Matt Shadham. Matt, thanks for joining us. Well, thanks for having me on. This is fun and I'm glad I worked out. This is a quarantine time, so we've all got a lot of time on our hands.

Yes, we do. It has been, it's been OK so far, at least for me, I don't know how it's been for you Matt, but it's actually starting to finally drag this past week. Yeah, I think we're kind of reaching that point, right? Where it's kind of the monotony of it all. I was having a blast with family time. We're having a great time getting closer and spending more time we otherwise wouldn't have. But I think we're running out of stuff to do.

It's like, you can only watch so many movies. You know, you can only make so many different meals and then it's like, OK, what else is out there? Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. It was a podcast where we watch every game from the dynasty. Yeah, this podcast really worked. It was the perfect timing for it. Yeah, if only we had planned it that way.

But yeah, I thought it'd get easier once the weather got nicer, but now I just sit outside and do nothing instead of sitting inside and doing nothing. Just literally running out of shit to do. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so I wanted to get into the the Super Bowl 36. But first, I want to kind of just touch a bit on on you and your your journey as a page, because from we've talked about this on our podcast kind of throughout this season, but you're kind of that true Belichickian success story of that, the kind of system

that Belichick has put in place over these past 20 years of players a lot like yourself. And I would put myself sort of in that group of that 2000 team. So I'll do my bio real quick. I was actually a ram initially. I was an under-adapted for the University of South Dakota. That's an FCS program for New England listeners. So we're similar to it was division two at the time.

It's it's one double layer FCS now, but that's comparable to like a U.N.H. or Maine or UMass at the time or something like that. So it's that size school. I was an under-adapted guy. I was like, you know, sort of in that realm of preseason, all American heading into your senior season, maybe a guy like that has a chance to be in the field, but you really kind of don't know, you know, you're kind of just on the cusp of being really good at this level. What does that mean?

Do I have a chance to the next all that kind of stuff? And I went to my version of the senior bowl at FCS level. They have this, it's no longer exists, but it was called the snowball back then. It was inside North Dakota State's North Dakota State is they've actually had ESPN game days gone there in the last couple of years. But they're kind of a wagon, right? It's insane. Yeah, because Greg both went to U.N.H.

So we kind of have an idea of. We did. OK. Oh, Lord, North Dakota State year after year after year. I mean, I've told this on many media media, my guess, since I've been doing this stuff. But playing at North Dakota State is cool. The environment is anything I ever saw in the NFL. It's smaller, obviously, but it's like an arena football game. It's like tight on top of you. It's wild. But anyway, so I went up to that senior bullish kind of game for the small schools

and perform pretty well. But I kind of jacked up my MCL, came away with a little sprain, played through it. But in the sort of workouts after I was not combine ready, and I was a combine alternate at the time. So you really need the testing against bigger time guys and, you know, the exposure to bigger time players to sort of make that case. And I, you know, I was able to do the bench and I was able to do some of the stuff. They used to have a leg press thing, like a leg cybex test, like type thing.

That was part of combine testing. But there's only a few things I could do and that hurts you. So then I go on, you know, so, I mean, I think that's part of the story. I go and draft it. I thought I was going to be a middle or late round guy and then I don't get drafted. I'm offered a deal by the Rams Colts and Browns, kind of just through my agents, guidance, choose the Rams in part, because we thought that was the most vulnerability outside linebacker kind of thing where maybe you could make a roster.

And I was there in 99 and that was my rookie season. That's the year the Rams won the Super Bowl and I was, it's a really goofy story. Leonard Little was a really good player for them. The first round draft picked a year before in 98 and Leonard had unfortunately gotten in that the deal with the drunk driving accident. Oh yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, so Leonard, and so that's my position. I think that was in part some of my agents thinking at the time about why

that would be a great place to go. Looks like Leonard, you know, their starter won't be there kind of thing. So maybe the veteran moves into that spot. You can slide in and win a backup job. That's a great opportunity. But that offseason in 99, it was announced that it was time served and, you know, different times in 1999 than now. Obviously, you know, if you were an accident, you're involved in action like that.

You're probably going to miss a year, if not more. But back then it was, I think it had happened late in the season in 98. And he sat for those games and then they made that decision later that summer. So it was a weird situation, not like Belichick type stuff, but they, you know, where he keeps it cryptic and, you know, you just, you never know where your standing is on the team with the Rams. My position coach just came to me and was like, well, OK, Leonard's back. And he's a really huge part of what we do.

And that means you're basically not going to probably make the team now. It's like, dude, it's like July. So, you know, we hadn't even gotten a preseason games that we had inter squad stuff, I think with Tennessee or something like that. But I pretty much learned before even getting to the preseason games that, hey, you're fighting for a practice squad job. And in my head, I'm like, that's bullshit. You know, like, I want to, I could have, I could have gone to Cleveland.

I could have gone to Indiana. I could make a roster here. So I did a little petulant thing, I guess, in retrospect and was like, all right, well, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go through these two days for no, without an option opportunity to actually make a team. So I left, which is weird. And so, you know, I went to Charlie army, who was the GM at the time. And I had a pretty good relationship with coach for me.

I mean, I think you like me. That was one of the places much like New England that keeps a lot of undrafted guys, London Fletcher is one example, but the Rams brag about how many undrafted guys they bring up, much like, you know, the Patriots do. They, they find a lot of, a lot of those kinds of gems type idea. But I went to him and was like, man, I just want to play in the NFL. And it looks like there's no opportunity here. He says, oh, well, you can be on practice squad and mention move up.

And for a kid in 99, coming from small school practice squad, to me, meant like hold a bag and, you know, be somebody else's dummy. And I was like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, that obviously is not really what it is in the practice world. I mean, I think in retrospect, after growing up a little bit, you realize that is sort of an on the cusp thing and there are opportunities there.

But I didn't see it that way as a young kid. So I went back to school. So in 99, I still was under four ride scholarship at USD and I wanted to finish out my degree. So I left camp. I left camp and they have a designation sort of where they kind of continue to hold your rights, like a futures contract kind of thing. And so 99, which would have been my rookie year, I went back to school.

And so then, you know, Charlie's calling in like November and my agent's calling and they're saying, okay, do you still want to do this? Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, I do. And I graduated that fall and then I came back the next offseason in 2000 as if that were sort of my rookie season again. And then that's the year where I went all the way through camp and thought I made the roster for the Rams, got my playbook at the end of the fourth

preseason game and went through the weekend, stay in the hotel and holiday in and her city and thought, Hey, I made it. And we got to like Monday-ish or maybe a Sunday, sometime over that weekend where I thought I'd made the cut. I came to the team meeting and had my new playbook for the work for week one. And there was an injury at one of the receiver spots and they came to me and said, Hey, we're going to be a little thin. We're going to have to bring an extra wide receiver body in for week one.

Basically, you must be number 53. It's kind of what I learned. I think in that moment, I made it, but I'm 53, you know, I'm 53 on the 53. So they said, Hey, we're going to, you know, we're going to put you on practice squad for just the week. We're going to have to release you right now. Just took a little transaction, hide you, bring you back when this thing's done. I was put on waivers and Scott Piolli, you know, how you're here.

No one claimed me. So what I thought was just going to be a little, Hey, it sucks. You won't get to play on week one, but you're still be on the team thing. You're exposed to waivers. Anyone can get you. And Scott apparently had been a, had been an advocate of mine. I've known more about me and I had no interaction with the team prior, with knowing when prior to them doing that.

But, um, so I was claimed. So then all of a sudden I'm on a plane up here and I played on week one with the cats in 2000 bills first year. And, you know, I'm about to see, I love Scott Piolli for all he did for my career, but it was a total surprise. So for me, and I, I, I know I spent a lot of time on that story, but the background there to what the Ram thing meant to me was, was kind of different. You know, the reason that the fact that we ended up playing though at the

Dcore team and 01 championship was, was cool for me because my, my story had kind of started with them, never really got going. Um, and it's no fault of their own. I mean, I think they were still, you know, high on me, but, you know, the Patriots do this a lot too. Well, they'll expose the guy to waivers and hope to keep them on practice for a while and retain them. But ranch tried to do that with me and somebody else grabbed me.

So I still kind of have a soft spot for that place. They were patient with me, leaving, you know, leaving them prior to camp, uh, and coming back, but, uh, it just didn't work out. And I ended up in this place. And oddly enough, that, that ends up being, that we played. Wow. Yeah. I, cause yeah, we tried to do some, some research on you before we did this.

And, uh, none of that is in your Wikipedia. I have to say. Yeah. I think I know what I'm doing this afternoon. So, so what, what was like, were you a fan of a team growing up then? So when you live in Iowa, I don't know if it's, it's not something I think you'd understand as a New Englander, cause you've got a team, right? You obviously have the past, you go far enough south, maybe you're far enough

south in the, you know, Connecticut, maybe you're a giant fan or something. But if you live in this region, there's, there's generally a team that is affiliated with you, uh, you know, even if you're out as far as Western map, I mean, you're, you're part of New England. You had a team. If you live in Iowa, you don't have a team. You kind of, Iowa is the Iowa Hawkeyes. I mean, Peyton Fry, you know, that sort of storied, uh, college place.

Much like Nebraska, Nebraska, Cornhusker, they, if you live in Nebraska, your pro team is your college team kind of thing, like in Alabama type idea. Iowa is very much the same way. So there's a lot of my friends, uh, I lived in Sioux city, Sioux city, Iowa. I was comparable size. It's just short of a hundred thousand. It feels a little wistrish, you know, it's a very blue collar town, comparable in size, I guess to that.

Uh, but we, you know, you see, you have just a blend of people cause you kind of sit in the middle. There are NFL fans, but some are chiefs fans, some are Vikings fans, some are bears fans, some are Packers fans. You get enough, uh, Sioux city actually sits in three states. It's Iowa, South Dakota and Nebraska, depending on what part of town you're in. And so the Western portion, some of those people, cause they sit in Nebraska will be Broncos fans.

So again, not a long winded, long winded way to say, you kind of don't have a team yet, you kind of just cheer for who you cheer for. Cause we sit literally like in the middle of maybe four or five markets, you know, six hours in every direction. So I was a Raiders fan, which is kind of goofy, which has nothing to do with any of that, but, uh, I was a big, uh, like how we long quite a bit, um, you know, use defensive linemen stud guy that I just kind of dug his game, but I was a safety number 42 Ronnie lot where that obviously for a while.

And I kind of dug Ronnie and I was a big tall skinny kid that played safety initially before I got, I grew and became a linebacker. So yeah, I was kind of a Raiders fan, which for me was, was neat because my very first pre-season game wasn't a regular season game. Unfortunately, my first, my first time where I got to wear an NFL uniform in game situation and go against another team, it was against Raiders, a first pre-season game there, uh, for the Rams. So that was cool.

10 Browns out there running around the field and you're just like, I is there's biggest saucer. It's that was, that was a really, really cool day. So you're the second Raiders fan we've had on and neither of them are from either Oakland or LA. The other one we had on, he got into the Raiders through hip hop, actually. Yeah. Yeah.

They got a brand through that. Yeah. So I would, I would, I would say like starter jackets, guys, like jackets all through like that. I'm a, you know, 80s kid and early nineties and high school and all that. So like, yeah, Raiders were like one of those brands that, you know, Raiders, the bulls were kind of that way too. Just like, these are huge 80s, 90s brands.

And if you didn't have an affiliation, you probably weren't sharing for one of those just by the fall. Yeah. I think that was the Cowboys for me growing up. Cowboys for you? Okay. Yeah. My, that was a little, a little behind you.

Yeah. So the Cowboys were the, the team you root for, if you didn't, didn't watch football, I think. Right. Right. So what was your connection to the Steelers since you clearly just went on like a revenge tour in 2001? Yeah.

Right. No, no Steelers love. Whatsoever. Yeah. I don't, you know what, I would say this though, when you're like a kid from non NFL world, you know, like if you're here locally, uh, you can grow up in Frammingham, you can grow up in Dorchester or whatever, you're a Franklin kid or whatever, you're from some small area here.

You can maybe even if it's just once a year, once every two years, three or four years or whatever it is, you can go to Shaper Stadium or Patriots Stadium or whatever. Sullivan's, you can, you can have sort of brushes with NFL life. You can go to an NFL stadium. You can drive by an NFL stadium. So you're around it. At least you're aware of it.

Uh, I, I out there, like just even the sight of those iconic helmets, like give you, like, you know, like Goosebumps, like you walk on the field and it's just that, you know, the old steel curtain look and it's just so cool when you're, you know, those are the things I've only seen on TV. And I never had been to an NFL game in my life, uh, until I played in one. Well, so I like, yeah. So when we, you know, when I had, uh, gone up through college at the university of South Dakota, we have a school in our conference back then,

and the conference doesn't exist anymore. It was called the NCC. So that was North Dakota State, South Dakota State, South Dakota State. All those schools, Northern Colorado was in there and Mankato, a lot of good hockey schools, St. Cloud States, Pre-Kopaki program. Yep. And Minnesota Mankato, I think they're actually called Minnesota state now, but Mankato state had, had a team, um, in our conference.

I was school in our conference and they have, uh, they host the Vikings training camps to have for years and years and years. And one time a year, they get to play a home game and what used to be the Metro Dome. So that was my one little brush with, I got to play a road game against Mankato in the Metro Dome, but it sucked because they're, you know, the Metro Dome's huge and there were like two, three, 4,000 fans in the stands. So it just was like trickling down the front row.

Kind of a terrible environment. It looks like a red ski. Yeah. I was going to say, I've been in a revolutionist game. It's, it's that, it's that feel. So yeah. So my whole point of bringing that up is just when you are a kid like me, without really any NFL sort of brushes, you see a Steelers helmet across me.

You see a Raiders helmet across me. Just get Niners helmet, a Packers helmet. I mean, those things just, it just, it gives you the goosebumps. It's just such a cool thing. Even if you didn't necessarily cheer for one of them or cheer against. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Did you have like a favorite way stadium to go to?

Uh, so this is a, this is a corny as hell kind of story, but I, I, I still laugh about it because it was my one moment. So I played, um, I don't think I got to go to, uh, to Lambeau where the Packers are at until well into my career. I think I played, they ended up playing there a few times, maybe once or twice with the Jets, uh, once, I think maybe just once with the Packers, with the Patriots, those Patriots for six years. And I feel like maybe we had one trip there in the six, maybe none.

I know we play the Packers at home, but I hadn't been there a lot. So I feel like, you know, I'd been in the NFL for a handful of years by then, four, five, six years, something like that. And I think it was my first trip to Green Bay. And I think the first one was actually a pre-season game and we came back and played there later in the regular season. I think that's correct. But anyway, it was my first time in Lambeau, right?

And that's, that's kind of like a big deal again to like a football fan because even if you, you know, if you're ambivalent with the Packers thing, cheer for them, not cheer for them, still just being in Lambeau is kind of, you know, it's like a Fenway kind of thing for, for baseball. So I just remember, this is corny as hell, but back in the early days, I'll give Tom Brady credit for this. Brady was one of the very first guys that I knew, actually our strength coach, Mike Wojcik and Tom were the two sort of forefront guys on this that

had iTunes libraries on their laptops. This is before even like the iPod stuff got started, but Tom had like iTunes library really, really early. He always be on his Apple. And this is before Apple computers were really cool or new or whatever. This was, this was kind of just like the early days of Apple. And Tom would be up at like ungodly hours, downloading songs and making these playlists.

And this is, you know, during the 2000 season, this is like right when I iPod, I think came out, uh, the iPod, the handheld thing came out like after the 2000 season. I think it was like the 2001 off season. Yeah. And anyway, so yeah, it's somewhere in that range. And, you know, I had like an extensive CD collection and cassettes and all that kind of stuff.

So we were all trying to download shit through our laptops and make these playlists, but Tom was like an assassin with a stuff like you so into it. And I was like, okay, you know, I got my, I already have my CDs. I don't get this time. I don't really understand. I had my vinyls, Tom. What are you doing? So anyway, he was like really, really into that.

And I was a little late to the game, but part of the incentive to get it on your iPod was because we had one of those attachments, uh, like a little adapter that would allow you to plug it into the, to the little weight room. So the, the Patriots weight room, you, if you could get your own playlist in there, you could sort of control the thing. And it's not because obviously Tom had seniority at any time like that. He was just a guy who had a playlist and everyone else is fucking popping in a cassette tape or something.

So he did that. And it kind of incentivized a lot of us to go out and like figure the shit out. So, so we went by iPods and I started to make my own stuff and ungodly amount of hours he'd spend where I remember, uh, what is that, the ghetto boys. Dan feels good to be a gangster. I remember downloading that song overnight. My office was like upstairs in the loft and it would, it was downloading the song and from the time I went to bed, it cooked till morning to download

like that single song on like naps, naps or whatever it was and you better hope it was the right song and not just the file that was named that way. Oh yeah. This is the closest I've ever felt to Tom Brady in my life. I have to say. And it would just, it would just play like, you know, like I'd be sitting there and half asleep at one o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock, whatever. And it would pop on like the songs partially downloaded and would start

playing and you wake up like, what the fuck is it there? But anyway, so I had, I had this like, I'd gotten to the point where I had, you know, I had a pretty robust library and had had my pregame playlist exactly as I wanted it was still on that first, first or second sort of a generation iPod and I had it with me and I always took it out to pregame warmups and we were now in Green Bay for this first time that I've ever been to Lambo and Lambo's the walkway from the locker room to the field is unusually long, like Denver's a little bit that way in the new stadium in Invesco,

but most of them, you know, you're 50 yards, maybe 100 yards, you know, you're, you're close. Lambo has this weird like tunnel, the tunnel is really long and really steep, but then it kind of winds back through sort of the underbelly of the stadium. So it takes, it takes like, it's a long walk and you're going through these sort of hallowed halls kind of field. And I just remember I, back at the time, I just had my iPod on shuffle. So no particular playlist ready rolls.

So every one of the 800 ish songs or whatever could possibly pop up at any moment and I had hit play and I started walking down this like windy thing. I don't remember exactly what song was on. But as I hit that, as I'm walking anyway, but as I come down that final tunnel stretch and I pop right out the tunnel, you look and you see the field for the first time, looks like we made it pops on that looks like we made it. Who the hell sings that? It's corny as hell, you know, like seventies.

Oh my gosh, I built the whole, I built the whole story up and I can't think of his name, but that was kind of my life. Oh, you know, like the angels, whatever kind of looks like we made it. And I'm walking out on the Lambo and just I will always really just get a kick out of that and chuckle every time I think of it, because the way the song timed up right as I hit this iconic sort of a football venue. Barry Manilow. Barry Manilow, there you go.

Barry Manilow. Nice fact. Yeah, we'll dub that into this. Oh yeah, there you go. It's recording. Yeah, over, over my singing. Please. So you mentioned South Dakota State, they were a rival of yours at the time.

Is that right? Yeah. So, so Venetary is a few years older than me. I think it was a senior when I was a senior, when I was a freshman, I believe or either senior sophomore, something like that. He's a couple of years out ahead of me and that's our rival. Yeah. So South Dakota State, another guy you might may or may not know.

This is going to take some hardcore NFL fan this, but Steve, Steve Hayden was a tight end for the Browns, played about the same amount of years as I did. Someone that eight, nine ish range, something like that. Steve was, Steve was alongside Kellen Winslow when he was there. So Winslow, Junior, whatever it is, he was a Winslow and Hayden were their two tight insets and Hayden and I are the exact same age. So he was at State all four years that I was at U. And so he's an NFL prospect. I'm an NFL prospect and we played against each other all four or two.

We've had it surprisingly. So there was another running back, James White, James White. Oh my God. I did do that because I heard him. Yeah. I've heard him, heard him. Why can't I literally cannot think of the backstand? Holy shit, this is terrible of me.

USD had another running back that was small, kind of like James body type. So the very, very similar that way. But anyway, gosh, it's so bad. I made it go on air and I know this, but we had a running back that was really, really good that went to South Dakota, from South Dakota, went to the Browns also around that time. And once again, it's, you know, I'm sure that'll come to me later. But the point was, you know, we have a handful of NFL guys come through there.

There's some brushes with the South Dakota. But you didn't have any beef with Adam when you're on the fence? Not really. I mean, I kind of give him a hard time now. You know, he's a kicker. So I don't think you really get real, real into the whole rivalry stuff. He just does his job, does it exceptionally well, obviously. But I gave him some shit.

So two years, I call games for ESPN. Generally, I'm up here doing, you know, maybe it used to be UMass games, then BC, then Syracuse, Yukon. I kind of stay regional. I don't travel much because of NFL obligations, but generally I'm doing games up in the Northeast. And then when it comes to playoff times, I'll end up doing a UNH game, Maine. Go down to James Madison, things like that.

But we had two years ago, South Dakota State actually advanced to, I believe it was the final four of the FCS playoffs sort of bracket. And maybe it was still just the final eight stage when I had this particular game, but anyway, they were down at a school called Kennesaw State, which is in Atlanta, and they have, Kennesaw State has like a new-ish, like two, three, four-year-old stadium that's like one of those built the venue just for soccer. So they have like a minor league soccer team where they build those really cool sort of low sitting, but like, you know, brand new with like eating decks

right on top of the seats is really cool, really cool little stadium. But South Dakota State was actually their opponent. And for all these years where I do the, the, the BCS stuff through the regular year, but then when bowl season starts, I don't do bowls, I do the playoff game. So I get into, I, I'm always wanting these assignments where, yeah, give me South Dakota State or give me North Dakota State schools. I used to do, and they never given to me. I always keep you with the Northeast stuff.

So I got a South Dakota State assignment. So I was really fired up about it. So I was, yes, Texan Adam and like, oh, I'm going to talk so much shit on the air. Like, I'm just going to buy his call, buy his call in the history of ESPN. But no, I actually held my tongue and the, the, the head coach there now is the same guy that was there when I was, the head coach, South Dakota State, same guy as when I was there years and years ago. And we have to do the coaches conference during the week.

And I, I, you know, so we do the coaches call with the other broadcasters and ESPN crew and stuff. And, and, uh, I got on and I kind of just bit my tongue and then say a whole lot. And he, he, he came on and gave a little spiel and he entered, he said, hello, Matt. Oh yeah, of course. I remember you, Matt, we kind of had a little, little coyote and jackrabbit back and forth, but then we had to dive into it.

So I knew it, but I sort of been put on notice that like, okay, I got to, I got to call this straight. I mean, I mean, Zolek does it every Sunday, right? Yeah. So it was fun though. I, I went back state. So like behind sort of the scenes, they always have a production room where you were foods available for crew and staff before any game early at the NFL or

college level, but I went down to sort of the, uh, the official room and where all the food was being served. And I was going to grab a few plates and take it back up to the booth. And in the hallway is this whole crew of the South Dakota state cheerleader. So there's, you know, 15 of these young girls and they're like blue and yellow stuff. And I'm like, they're not going to, these girls are young and shit. I'm in my early 40s.

I'm not going to have any idea who I am. Um, so I'm just going to ask them to take a picture and they'll recognize me with my little ESPN garb or whatever being down here that, oh, it must be one of the broadcasters or some random dude. So I asked them to take a picture and I, they all got around me and kind of arms around everyone. We're all going to smile. And I said, on three, one, two, three, go Yotes.

Now Yotes is the South Dakota thing. So not only, you know, I had our producer or whatever taking the photo. One of the guys was down there with me and I got them all to the one, two, three, go Yotes. And they, they were that it snapped and I sent it back to Adam and had some fun with that. But, but unfortunately, once the game got going, I'm, I'm, I'm being facetious out of the straight game, I would almost be accused of maybe being

too complimentary for state on that. Yeah, that's how it happens. It does. We have no love loss for South Dakota State either because they beat the crap out of you or two. Oh, really? Okay. Back in, yeah.

Back in the 2017. Jack rabbits. Yeah. We, that was the, that was the big thing. I think they've outlawed that now. They don't allow us to do it, but they'd always, we always, there was always a dead rabbit every time, every time the schools play because, you know, we're, we're the coyotes emphasis on, emphasis on coyotes.

It's not coyote. That's, that's, it's a sacrilegious to say that it's, it's not the correct pronunciation, so it's coyotes, not coyote. But anyway, we, those that were actually, you know, it's like a natural predator kind of situation with coyotes and rabbits. So any, any one of those games, there's always a dead, dead jackrabbit. And they're really big. It's not like your regular bunny.

It's like a large jackrabbit is thrown on the field, on the field, thrown on the field, thrown on the court, whenever we'd have any kind of thing. But I think they've gotten some trouble for that. I'm probably an animal rights thing or something. I just, I just made the realization that yo, in your Twitter bio is coyote. I was, I was going to ask you about it and I Googled it and it said it was the past tense of yeet. And I was like, yeah, putting a past tense yeet.

And I'm so proud of my school. I feel like I grew, I grew up at the wrong time. Obviously the Patriots stuff worked out swimmingly as far as timing there. But USD right now is, like I said, it's an FCS school. So it's comparable in size to the stuff, the schools we mentioned out here. But we have a dome that's called the Dakota dome. And it's a very similar, gosh, there's really, they don't really build them out here in the Northeast.

It's, you know, the metrodome was a bigger version of this back in that day, the silver dome in Detroit, all these kinds of 80s, 90 more 80s, 70s, 80s builds have kind of come and gone. But the Dakota dome is still there. They put a solid ceiling over the top of it now. So it's not the old bubble top, but they're putting solid seating on both sides. Do anyone who's bored listen to this podcast, we got all this, we got all

this time on our hands when you jump, jump off, jump off here and go to, uh, go to, uh, I think it's like coyote, I don't know, when USD's website, whatever that is, university of South Dakota website, they've got like this stadium progression thing right now. They're putting solid seating on both sides. So now you've got this like 20,000 seat, gorgeous pack to the, to the Gills, uh, FCS program that looks like nothing in the country. And I'm just like, gosh, I want to go, I want to, can I go back to school?

It's, it's, it's sick. I mean, you're obviously familiar with UNH, you know, what that venues like, it's nice. It's not the same, well, but yeah, yeah, no, it's not the same. And, uh, Maine is solid enough, but it's, you know, it's just the big metal stands kind of thing. You see this venue and you're like, holy shit, that's a, that's an FCS school. I mean, I, I do BC, I do BC games, you know, regularly throughout, throughout

these years and you know, that's alumni stadium, but it's, you know, it's a 40-ish thousand state, the aluminum stands kind of thing. It's pretty basic. This is sick. I got it up on Google right now. It's unbelievable. Yeah. It's ridiculous.

And it's supposed to be ready for the season, but I don't know if it's going to be ready or not with all this stuff going on, but it's not ready here. Right, true. So you played when they built the new stadium as well for the Pats. What was that like, like locker rooms and all that? Yeah, I think, uh, I had two seasons, obviously at the old place. So again, with the contrast of the Rams stuff, I started that first, you know, my first out of South Dakota thing and you're in a division two school at the

time. So, you know, the facilities are nothing like the NFL. So I'm all excited to go, I'm going to the NFL. It's first class and the Rams were in this place called their training facilities in Earth City. So Earth City is like this gorgeous, uh, like, you know, full training facility out in the Burbs kind of thing. So glass facility, racquetball courts, indoor field, uh, basketball court, uh,

you know, it's just gorgeous. Meeting rooms are sick. Like everything's really nice. First class, the, the, the, the field looks like a golf course. Like it's just like nothing I've ever seen in my life. And, uh, I'm like that, that's the NFL. That's what it's supposed to be like, I guess, right? And then, you know, the dome is downtown, the PWA, PWA dome.

And those are like the facilities that like, I've made it. I'm in the NFL. Yeah. This is what it's supposed to be like. And then when I got released and you're shuffled off here and I, I get, I stayed out at the Westin, uh, at the, at the airport. So, you know, they, they fly into Logan stay overnight. There's really nice Westin next to the, it's not a Westin anymore.

I think it's held now, but anyway, the one right next to the airport. So it's like, okay, I'm in downtown Boston. This is cool. And this is a badass hotel. This is nice. Okay. Drive down 95, 93 to 95. Do we all do exactly?

And then I, I get out and I'm like, wait, that, like, old Patriot stadium. And it's like, ah, it's still kind of a college bowl. So that's big. It's still big and that's cool and everything. But, and then I get, instead of staying any more nights in the nice Westin, we're put up in the end zone, the end zone motel across the street from the stadium. And, uh, God bless. We had some really good times there.

The owners are really nice people at the time. I think that's changed ownership, but it's a shit hole. I mean, it's not like a really nice place, but we had a, you know, party scene kind of hotel, but it did not have an NFL feel to it. Um, but then the stadium itself, you know, like you go into our meeting rooms were, uh, you know, like the, the chairs that have the, the desk that kind of holds like a folding chair with a holding thing to write on. Like that's, I mean, with partitions, like you would have it, you know,

some office complex kind of thing. Like the rooms weren't really divided. We had like the standing, rolling partitions and seats that roll up. And like, it was like, I'm like, holy shit, this is the NFL. Like, and for me, I would say the facilities weren't that much better than what I knew at South Dakota, so there's two, two good years of that though. And, uh, it was still cool on game day, you know, the stadium from the field looks pretty sweet, but the facilities aren't nearly as nice.

But then when they built the new thing, it was called CMGI stadium before the Gillette, the, you remember that flip, um, but I have a bunch of, I have a box somewhere with a bunch of CMGI logoed stuff because that, you know, announced launch, their CMGI was all over everything. They were like the, the, the, the, like Yahoo of the Northeast at the time, I think they were a big deal and they, they went under in the dot com bubble. Exactly. So did you do training camp at, at Bryant or was it at Foxborough?

Yeah, I think I did two training camps at Bryant, maybe three, um, at, at one point coach Belichick flipped it to, uh, to, uh, to up here. And we, we started staying at an extended stay or what are those called? Like the residence in or something like that over in Foxboro. So that we could, you know, so instead of the on college, we were staying back here in the woods in Foxboro and then we'd come over here and do it in the stadium. But yeah, we had the, we were, I think we got maybe, maybe three or four camps here at the stadium and it's absolute night and day.

I mean, one quick story from that I had. So when I grew up out in South Dakota, uh, you know, going to school at the University of South Dakota, grew up in Iowa, but at USD, um, we actually had two coaches. I had this, uh, coach, Walt Hausman house, we call them houses, a rock star legend. He's, uh, I don't know if you remember a few years ago, they had the LA kiss, uh, that, uh, the team that was owned by the band kiss and they had a reality show and one of those TLC or something like that. Nope. Nope. I haven't seen that. Anyway, is it on Netflix?

Cause I'm looking for shit to watch right now. I don't know. Maybe it's one of those ones you can find online, but it was one of those reality shows that falls an arena team around and the whole joke, you know, it was like Gene Simmons owns a football team and like, you know, it was, uh, anyway, it was crazy, but house was the defensive coordinator for that team. He's my old coach from way back when, but house is from New Hampshire. So house has got the accent, not, not, not, not hardcore, East Boston, but like still in New England. It's going to sound very new England to a South Dakota kid.

So houses, you know, a South Dakota guy, and we had this other guy, uh, that was, uh, a strength coach and, uh, he was from out here and had much more of a, you know, very, very heavy Boston accent kind of thing. And so that strength coach was, so, uh, giving us very quickly. So I'm at training camp at Bryant, like you'd mention, I'm out there on the field in 2000 headspin and, you know, it's, oh, it couldn't be 2000. Sorry. I had to be 2001 because I missed training camp in 2000. I was in St. Louis. So my first, my first Bryant training camp, oh, one, I guess. So I'm out there on the field and the way it always works is you only do autographs. They kind of still do this now.

You only do autographs with, uh, bi-position groups. So they don't let, you know, today's running backs, today's linebackers, today's tight ends, today's quarterbacks, whatever it is. So when you're walking off the field, coach would encourage you. It's like, if it's not your day, don't go over and do it because then everyone will be expected to dive in. So they did it sort of in sequences. So I, it was one of those days where I knew our group wasn't supposed to go over there. So when it was our time to go, we just had to walk off the field, but you know, a lot of people yell out to you and want you to stop and sign something. And this guy is yelling. And again, I'm some,

you know, young guy, I'm not the guy, people's, they were pining for their autograph, right? But for some reason, there's this guy who had his shirt off, uh, huge guy, shirt off the entire time. Like, you know, like, uh, I don't know, Ray Banz or whatever. Like, he's just like, he's just screaming my name throughout the impractice. Big girl, just the guy. He's hammered. Chot him, chot him. Chot him, chot him, chot him. Like, he's trying to get my attention the entire time. Although the linebackers are busting my balls. Like, who the fuck is that? That just, just won't stop saying her name. And then when we went by, I, I did, I may have,

I don't know if I waved or acknowledged, but I certainly didn't stop because we were pulled out. You know, I'm doing what I'm told. It's not our day. We can't stop the sign. Well, anyway, that guy was Tom Jenkins, who was my strength coach at USD. Now I had no clue that that was him. And so this is before like, you know, I guess I probably had an email. So I'm getting a text message months later about, why did you punk me in front of all my friends? And why did you not acknowledge me? And I'm like, what? Like, what? Oh, Jenx, my bad. So anyway, that was, that was like my, my, that, that, if you can imagine that voice in South Dakota, we had two hardcore New Englanders throughout that throughout my four years. So it was, it was always a little piece of

that in my life, even before I knew really what this was all about out here. You should have tweeted at you with like a big chunk of meat or something. Yeah, but again, this is, this is pre, this is pre social media. I maybe had a cell phone. Yeah, I probably had a cell phone in a while. Yeah, probably like right towards the end of college, I think midway through college and like 97 or eight, I think I got my first big chunky cell phone, but it's not like, you know, you didn't text people really that much then. And maybe it was the email, but I'm fucking no, I think my wife, I shared an email when I first went to the NFL. So it's like, it's how do you get a hold of one another back? Yeah, it baffles me how we managed to do it, get by with landmines.

By the way, I'm looking up this LA kiss and their jerseys are outrageous. It's exactly what you'd expect if someone from kiss designed a uniform. Yeah. Yeah. And house, Walt Houseman's his name, house as a study was a really good offensive lineman, I believe at Iowa, that went on to play for a couple years in the NFL, but his knees got, got really jacked up. But house was, you know, how reality shows are, like they always try to hone in on a few of the big, big personality guys. The house is just wild, the screamer, they just good, good dude, all the players love him, probably has a dip in it all, all times. Big cat lover, like he's just, he's a, he's a very eccentric guy, one of my favorite coaches of all time, smart football guy, but house

was like this, you know, I'm, again, I'm coming from some two division, two school and, you know, 15, 20 years later, there's this reality show with my old defensive coordinator on there. And I was like, Oh, well, you guys are getting to see what I got to see. Oh, he is from New Hampshire. We're from New Hampshire as well, originally. Yeah, from Merrimack. Coach at St. Anselm College, which is literally five minutes down the street from me. Yeah. I believe houses are retired now, but just a great guy, good dude, coached all throughout arena and then small college stuff with us. And man, I, I love, he used to actually come up to Patriots camp. And when, you know, the arena is obviously trying to arena football is trying to pick at guys that look like may not

make a roster, you know, like there's something to them that can still play their good players, but they're going to get snipped on 53. And they might be a part of that next 10. So he was always, he was always up here in those later years, evaluating and trying to, who, hey, Chatham, who's, who's not going to make it, but do you like it? I love that stuff. It's great. It's like Kurt Warner, right? He was a, he's an Iowa guy too. Did you, did you interact with him when you, when you were at the Rams for that little bit? Very little. So remember 99s, the, that off season when, when the ACL gets blown out, Trent Greens ACL gets blown out. And so by my little story earlier about how when I left camp, that was, I left camp

the week of the first pre-season game. So this announcement had come right around that time, had the little meeting. I went through a practice or two after they told me that. And I stood there for the entire two and a half hours just watching and I was furious, like I said, the whole emotional reaction thing, but anyhow, so I didn't actually see the, it was Rodney too. I think it was Rodney Harrison went through, through a Trent Sneak. That's right. And that pre-season game, pre-season game. Yeah. But that happened, I believe a week or two into pre-season, maybe the third week, something like that. So I missed that part. So in fairness, the time when I was there, Kurt was just, you know, back up quarterback

and my draft class or my class, I wasn't, I was one of the undrafted guys, but Joe Germain was in that group. They ran from Ohio State. Joe Germain was the other, could he be the second, could he be the third? So at the time I left, I really, you know, it wasn't the Kurt Warner story yet. So had a few interactions with him, but not a ton, but obviously a super decent guy, but I didn't get to see him be the kind of player he became until I was finished. Yeah. He was the second best unstrafted Iowa. Yeah, but that's a, that was another school. He went to the University of Northern Iowa and that's another school sort of in the FCS, same conference as USD now. So that's a competitor,

cool school. I went to there for a recruiting trip and it was one of the, one of my coolest memories. There was, you remember Offspring? You remember the band Offspring? Oh yeah. My first ever CD. Extend on their own brand. So that, that, I'm blanking on that one song. I'm terrible about bringing up song names, but you're not remembering the name, but I remember on that recruiting trip, it was one of those like, you know, almost like Johnny B. Goode, that old movie, like one of the sickest recruiting trips I ever remember. You go into this house party after we'd left the game and they had actually opened the back door and then opened the front door and they ran a slip and slide all throughout

the home. And they had kegs at one side where they had opened the tap of the keg and were letting that run down the slip and slide. So whatever that song was from Offspring, that, that, that, that, that, that blank on it. It was, it was their hit early on there in the keeping separated maybe 90s. You'd hear it. Whatever it is. It will come up with it, but they killed the lights in the house and they started playing that song and there's, you know, like 200 people in this old house and they flip on the kegs running down the slip and slide out from the back door, out the front door of the home and people running through the back yard and sliding

throughout the front of the house while that Offspring song plays. That, that's how I remember I'm pretty sure that's how Greg's Easter just went to just by myself. All right. Well, I mean, we've, we've kept you longer than we told you we would. Um, boys, do you have any last questions you wanted to ask Matt before we mercifully let them go? I'm a little interested in like the build up to the Super Bowl, like that Super Bowl media week and the extra we didn't actually talk about Super Bowl, do we? Oh yeah, that's fine. I had all the time in the world.

Unfortunately, I do have all the time in the world right now. But so I'll just say this, it was weird, uh, especially getting to experience the next two and, you know, the pace of the week, you know, based on the one we had Houston and Jacksonville, those next couple, that's kind of what it's supposed to feel like. But you'll remember, I, the Rams had an incredible advantage, I would say, incredible, but a nice one because they won at home against the Eagles to go to the Super Bowl. We won on the, we won on the road against the Steelers. And you'll remember this is the 9-11 year. So we've lost a week, we've lost a week of the season where the NFL paused things during the year. And when we lost that week, the, basically what was chewed up was

the, that extra week of the Super Bowl. So there wasn't two weeks, there's just one. So when you went on the road against the Steelers, I want to say the AFC game was the afternoon game, I believe it was on that Sunday. So, you know, we're clenching early evening and we're having our trophy party there on the field. And then we got to hop on a plane and, and fly back to Foxboro and then go to New Orleans the next day. So, you know, if you're St. Louis, you'd be Philly, you're at least home. So when the guys all go back to their houses, grab their bags and you probably meet the next morning to take off on a flight for New Orleans. We had to fly back. So we had to fly back in the middle of the night. You know, obviously the drinks are flowing, we're

having a blast. You know, you're making it to the Super Bowl work, but we have to, you know, late night flight from Pittsburgh back to New England, but everyone's got to be back the next morning with their bags pack at the stadium. And Ops is, you know, the guys that work on operations over the team are trying to put together a Super Bowl plan on the fly. But I just remember being, you know, maybe you sleep a little on the plane or maybe not, but you're arriving back in the middle of the morning, you got to go home, pack a bag for an entire week's stay in New Orleans and you're back at the stadium. Maybe it's noon, I don't remember exactly the time, obviously, but something like that, like the flip is so quick. And now you've got your bags

packed for a week. Coach Belichick's coming in with his itinerary that they've probably put together on the flight, I guess. I don't know when one would have time for all that, but and then we're turning around and jumping on the jet and going to New Orleans. So it was quick. It was a whirlwind. You did not really have an opportunity to let it all sink in. But then that evening, and I think Monday night, I would imagine we've touched down maybe sometime that afternoon or something like that. We went, there was a group of 10, 12 of us, something like that. Emeril Lagasse has this restaurant called NOLA and was hosting the handful of us. And so we ate at Emeril's place and he kind of hosted the dinner. It was really cool. You know, again, you're kind of like celebrity

eyes, kind of like his head spinning, like getting to do all these cool things. But we went there to NOLA's real quick, had a really great dinner that night with a handful of guys. And then we're down to Bourbon Street for kind of our one night out. It's the one night where you don't have a curfew or whatever and you kind of just let loose. And a bunch of the Rams guys are down there as well. I think Larry, Larry Flint. I know this is obviously not a high-brow place, but Larry Flint has one of the sort of balcony hangover, Bourbon Street kind of places for feeds and all that stuff. So bunch of the other guys were in there, which is some of my old friends from from St. Louis and then a bunch of us after leaving NOLA's went up there and we kind of hung out a little bit.

It was kind of weird that two teams are kind of interacting down on Bourbon Street the night before it all gets going. But it was that quick though that you just basically arrived there after, I mean, shoot, it was 24 hours from we're sitting at dinner at NOLA's 24 hours from when we were in the stadium in Pittsburgh, the day before, right? And after having gone back to New England back again. And then you have your wild night out there and got pretty popped. And then the next morning, the next morning you're doing media day. So that whole in the stadium pictures yeah, it was that fucking quick. So that's what Tuesday was. And then you're in the Wednesday practice week. So all I remember about I don't remember a lot of the details other than just

like little anecdotes like that because it happened so frickin fast. So that's that was one of the ones where when people I'll remember stories like individual things that we did in Houston or in Jacksonville way better than New Orleans. New Orleans was like, whoa, that came quick. Like it just, you know, you're into a game plan like basically the very next day. And just trying to get up to speed really quickly and play a game. That's crazy. Yeah, it doesn't take a lot of time to study that Rams walk their tape either, you know, all their practices. Exactly. It's almost as if that didn't happen. I read that article on the athletic that you wrote about that. So I was like, we got to bring that up. Yeah, just it drove me nuts, especially since I have a lot of respect

independent of that one situation with a lot of those guys in that in St. Louis, the bottom end to it. And I don't know why they did, but I can understand that when you, you know, when you've had disappointment and loss that you would want to believe that something like that was at the heart of it. But it just it's just not true. So that's a crazy thing. Like, you know, we just it was such a quick week. And I think one of the things that when people wanted to find a way of how we so good on defense, you know, we must have known something, I had some secret, blah, blah, blah, like it was so incredibly helpful for us to have played them really tight and lost that you'll remember that home game that we had with them in November, December, what it was with

Rams. That was so helpful to kind of flesh through what really worked for us that we could now build a game plan around it. Also look at, you know, all the times Rams have been just smoking people and allowing their receivers and backs and tight ends just run off the line untouched. That was to me one of the first real hardcore Belichick game plans that was, you know, really what won it for us. If we'd adopted a different game plan and we had done something comparable to what you'd seen all the other teams that tried to slow them down do, we probably got beat, you know. But it took a very particular approach to beat those guys and coach taught it to us again in this sort of expedited manner because it was such a quick week, but it was like, you can't

learn everything in this environment. You just can learn here quickly what you can't do. They can't free release off the line. You know, Ernie Conwell, stud, big, blocking, tight end, very athletic. And Williams, the other tight end, they've got really good athletic tight ends. All those receiver groups, from Isaac Bruce to my draft class or my rookie class, Tori Holt, and, you know, Horn, I think Horn was still there, Blank and on the other third receiver's name, but Ricky Polt, well, obviously, yeah, obviously Marshall and Ricky Proll. And, you know, it's just incredibly talented group. If you let them build on you and, you know, get easy releases off the line and make their break at 12 to 15 yards, they're going to murder you. But if you

beat them up at the line, you know, that's, I don't know, it's just, it was one of the first times where we, where I think approach won a game that I can, that I'm aware of. I mean, I'm not a big NFL historian guy, but it was just how incredibly important the approach that we adopted, you know, play to play that role in the outcome. Well, I mean, it was similar to Belichick's game plan against the Bills when he was the defensive coordinator for the Giants too. I think that's basically told them that they wanted Thurman Thomas to run for 100 yards, and if he did, they would win the game sort of thing. It had shades of that, at least. Shades of that? There you go.

Yeah, for me anyway. I don't know. I wasn't there. Do you have any like guys you played with that you still keep in touch with? Do you have any like really close friends on the team? We're talking Patriots stuff? Patriots, Jets anywhere online. Patriots, yeah. So I would say the group of guys that stays in touch the most is really your position group. So, you know, Larry is one of my good buddies, and is and I were obviously together here for five of those six years, and is has gone on to do a lot of different things in coaching.

You know, he was a special teams assistant for the Giants for several years before he got its first coordinator job with the Texans, had that for a few seasons, and now he's the assistant up in Seattle. And it does kind of suck having, you know, one of your boys that was your tightest with live on the other side of the country. But you know, so we just kind of yeah, you're unfortunately forced to keep contact through texting and stuff like that. We recommend that signing a podcast because there you go. That's literally what we did. It helps. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's generally it's unfortunate that a few of the guys still live around here. Patrick Paz was

used by Patrick's my my neighbor on virtually everything I did as a pro at special teams. So on the kickoffs on the L3, Patty Patty is the L2. So he's right next to me on on punt team, on the guard, Paz the tackle. So Pat and I were kind of like, I don't know, wing my wingman or whatever, something like that. And just about everything we did, we were always alongside one another coordinated really well together. So Patty still lives down here in Rhode Island. Like it's a Lincoln guy. So I do see him some, you know, wish saw more joined here as he's local. Copen has got his place down and in these granites, he opened up that line cider brewing place. He's incredibly busy with that. Yeah, Copen isn't doing as much media anymore. So

he skipped his toe in that did for a few years of media. But he's really involved in that brewery. And it sounds like it's pretty badass. I usually just, I actually physically haven't been down there, but I've gotten cases of his stuff. It's really good. So highly recommended if anyone's going down there, the line, the copes got his hand or that stuff. But yeah, Russ Hoekstein, Russ Hoekstein is a is a Nebraska kid, went to the University of Nebraska and grew up in Hardington, which is a town not too far from where I was in Sioux City. But Hoekstein is, I'd say Russ is kind of the premium example. What happens a lot of guys in the NFL, you go to your host city or the city that you kind of grew up in, you settle there. Russ is two towns away. And I see Russ once or twice a

year. And he's a great dude. We get along really well. Our family's get along great. But you just, you just end up, I live in Rentham. And I basically see Rentham people now. So it sucks. Like, you know, it's, you know, Kay Falk was here for years, but then now he's moved back down to Louisiana. That's right. I think I've, I think I've, oh, Cory is obviously doing radio. So he's local. Who else, who else is still here? It's kind of it. And yeah, Wiggy's still here. Yeah, obviously he and I, he and I worked for, for years together on Nessun. But now he's doing all radio and no TV anymore. So, but I, all those names that I mentioned, we're all around here, but we're all kind of living different towns. We see each other a little, but not a lot.

Brusky's obviously here, but Brug is down in Bristol a few days a week, but he lives in North Outerbrook, so he's not too far away. So, you know, yeah, honestly, even though you're here-ish, it's, I think we talk through text messages more than we do in person, which is, I think just more life. Yeah, I think that's a common thing. So, I mean, we have to ask the obvious question of like, do you have the phone number for Troy Brown? Yeah, because we are the Browns. We also, we were discussing this last night, we're going to ask you, and then we got a discussion. Is Troy Brown the type of guy that actually has a cell phone? Because he strikes me like he may not. Yeah, I definitely am not going to be able to give that

one out. Yeah, yes, yes. Like, how early was he on the iPod train? Oh, I don't remember. So, okay, so I have to be deliberate here, and so the groups don't lift together necessarily. So, that, my whole thing was the linebacker group, sometimes the line would go in with us as well, maybe tight ends, because we're like mid, I think we're called the, what do they say, light weights, middle weights, heavies, or something like that. So, I think we're always in the middle group. So, the receivers and maybe the running backs and the DBs and stuff, they all work out together, quarterbacks are with them. And then the middle weight stuff, which is us linebackers and maybe the D-line. Now, D-line is more heavy. So, mostly linebackers

and tight ends, and maybe the full backs or whatever we work out together. So, whatever Troy, music, Troys, let's know, we're probably not in lifting groups right now. So, it's just more, it's more your body type guys, those, those middles like. He's probably listening to classical. He's, he's, he's a, you know, he's from West, what's school, West Virginia? I don't know. I don't know, I don't know Troy's musical tastes, that's the way I can. Foiled. Oh, Greg, you wanted to ask about Brian Cox, didn't you? Yeah, I mean, just from watching all the games in 01, he's like one guy that like stood out as someone that like, it didn't jump to, to mind like looking back, but when we actually go through

watching the games, you're like, wow, Brian Cox is electric, like just from like a personality standpoint and from a play standpoint too. So, yeah, he had a, he had a really interesting role on that team and something that, so Brian wasn't there in 2000. The 2000 team was a team was 511 and you know, I don't know what the exact number was, maybe half. It seemed like half, maybe it wasn't quite that dramatic, but there was a real house clean from between 2000 and 2001. So Cox was one of those new off season free agents in the 01 crew, Roman Pfeiffer was the other one. So Pfeiffer's a stud, really just a tremendous pro, really lucky to have played with him all those years, but Pfeiffer came in and Cox came in and those are kind of the new, new, two new

additions to the linebacker room and Andy memory and Andy Katz and where it had those neck problems. So Andy was having surgeries and his career was ending. It was kind of all happened around that same time. Cox was coming in as Andy was kind of going out and I believe TJ Tejonsen, he's, you know, obviously the really good player for the, for the organization for years, but TJ had had, I think it was his bicep thing then at the time. I don't remember, but he was thought they said it was a back. He was a little bit, maybe, yeah, he was a little banged up at the time Cox came in. So it was timely that Brian could pop in and play Mike linebacker and that was at the days before Bruce Key was a Mike, Bruce Key was more of a Will,

in other words, a weak side linebacker. So your Mike is traditionally your big hammer guy and Cox is tall. I think we were about the same height, six, four, five type guy, but Brian was heavy. Like he was, I mean, he was like, what do I weigh now? Unfortunately, I mean, it was like 260 type and I was more of a 250s type, but Cox was just one of the thickest on contact, heaviest hitters, at least to the linebacker that I'd never really been around. And the crazy part is Brian was pretty shitty in the weight room. And I joked at that because he was such a, he was such an absolute animal on the field, which was always a good, was always a good reminder that it's not just the weightlifter guys that necessarily hit the hardest or play the best or anything like that.

And Cox is a preeminent example of that. He was really poor at things like bench pressing, things like that, which you wouldn't expect because he was an absolute assassin on the field. But the reason I said his role was unique is Brian was kind of like the much, much older fat when he was brought in on one. And he was kind of a, you know, I don't know, speed dial to the front office kind of guy, like Bill would have a man you could tell a lot to how are things in the locker room. And, you know, he was sort of meant to be kind of the go between and enforcer a little bit, you know, and so Brian, I actually had a little tension because I'd gotten in trouble for a couple, I had two personal fouls in one game against

the Broncos early and the coach had laid in, coach had laid into me in post game and then Cox said something to me in the locker room and we, you know, I didn't get the blows, but it was tense between me and I. And I'm telling you this because I love Brian. He's a great guy and that we were tense then and because he was the sort of the older guy telling the line of the coaches and I was just leaving the fuck alone. I'm trying to fuck up. It's just, you know, I had a couple of bad calls. But anyway, so it's funny because then as I grow and become a vet and then Cox moves into coaching, Brian was my coach. So he was in New York when I was in New York. So he was brought down there with, he was brought down there with Manjini. So it was funny

because that one year Cox was, you know, the hit he has against Indianapolis that really turned the tide of that game, one of the big blow up shots over the middle. And, you know, Cox was just such a stud for that early group of us, emotional leader kind of guy. But he was also, I think one of the biggest lessons I got from Brian was his toughness and just that he played with one of the worst injuries I've ever seen. He basically had a broken foot. Now, when you break your foot, you can't fucking run. And he would put, you know, like you'll see offensive linemen, they'll do that like club thing where they put the giant club on a hand and, you know, maybe, maybe it's even a closed fist and they don't have fingers and they're able to, you know,

they're able to play a semblance of the normal game. Cox did that with a foot and like, I've never, I've never seen that before. Like he's getting a shot up. If you look at the way he had it taped, his foot was like a club foot. Like he had so much tape on his ankle and foot, I don't know exactly where the break was, but he had a break somewhere there down in his foot. And he was so big, you know, in the mid season and late season with us, but he wasn't really healthy yet played through that thing through the playoffs. And I want to, if I recall, I don't think he had much of a role in the Super Bowl. I think by then he was, it was a little more reduced because he was so fucked up physically. But I just remember,

you know, I went through some things later in my career. I had, I, I shredded my toe at the sesamoid tear. Basically, like, you know, when someone has an ACL reconstruction, I kind of had one of those for my foot. Like I absolutely shredded my foot. And I used to have to take a pair of shoes and I get a new pair of shoes for each game and have to cut a little X out of the side. So my sesamoid joint could stick out the side of my shoe, like, because there's not enough room in the shoe for width. Like my, I mean, I had a fucked up toe. Like I basically shouldn't have been, shouldn't have been out there. I was getting that shot up and was just limping along. But I always remember, you know, I, I like thinking, okay, Brian played with his

broken. I got a stress factor. I've got a badly dislocated toe. I can barely walk. But I do remember as an older player going, okay, you know, Brian got out there and he could be Cox went out and played on a broken foot. And I was similarly limited. You could tell be Cox was limited too. But his whole thing was off the ball, middle linebacker by that point. He's like, I can still take three hard stride hit the shit out of the garden in front of me. I can't cover anyone at this juncture. I can't be able to pass rush, but what can I still do with my body limited this way? And I just, I don't know, you always lose a good example for me because I remember he figured it out. He played through the pain. Take what you got to take to get out there. And I had a very similar

situation that later in my career that I had to deal with. And I always kind of thought back to how Cox was a little bit inspiring that way. But yeah, he was, he was an important guy in those, in those, in that one run, because he was a very emotional leader and he dealt with a lot to get the game day himself. And his role kind of ebbed and flowed like a lot of guys have happened. But you know, I was glad I got to play with him there. And even though there was a little tension early on, and you got to be my coach later on, it ended up being a guy that I, that I really respected. Yeah, because I remember, I think he got, it's like a chop block or something against the the Broncos is, is how he broke it. Because he was

Yeah, ended up kind of, yeah, swinging on the guy because he just dove his feet. I absolutely remember that. He was in the Broncos game, you're right. Yeah, I remember that. But then he came back like five weeks later, and we were talking about it. We had no idea how that was possible. That's right. Yeah, we were broken leg in five weeks. Because he came back. I think that you're right. We were talking about how he came back. It might even bend the leg. Yeah. Yeah, he came back quicker from that than Terry glended from his hamstring, I believe. Hamstrings suck, man. I hate those things. I've gone through that because it sounds like such a, it sounds like kind of a pussy injury. Oh, your hammies. But like, once you porn one of those

things, they never heal. And if you happen to have a job, which requires you to open up, open up and go full speed, I covered kickoffs, obviously for my whole career, hamstrings suck like you, like you would, you literally rather just break the arm, break the arm, break the bone, clean, clean, break, let it heal. Hamstrings are kind of those things where you get a tear in them, where they start to open up and they never heal and you can't run. And it's just, you know, all my hammy, it just sounds like something that's not like as cool as like I broke my leg or I, you know, I'd separated my shoulder or something like hamstrings sound terrible. I pull the muscle. But if you know, I just know it, I dealt with that one season. And for my job, you have to sit

over there, sit over, sit over there, then run down and cover a kickoff and maybe play a few plays on defense. And it's just when your hammies are jacked up, it's not, it's not good. So I can imagine being a guy like that, where you have to run 40 yards downfield and run back to the huddle, run 25 yards out cut and then go down to 15. Like if your hammies are jacked up, it's, it's a pain in the ass to say that much. Greg, don't you have hamstring issues? I have, no, I have like knee tendonitis stuff. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been giving you crap for hamstring issues for no reason. Greg, Greg used to play soccer at UNH. So he's the closest thing we have to a match at him in our family. UNH is a cool school, man. I'm just, I'm, I'm sad that they didn't

have the hockey season got cut short because I've, I've, I try to do a hockey East hit like as many venues as we can a year. Cause my kid's a 11 year old kid, a really good hockey player. And we don't get up the B's game very often that we try to hit every venue we can on the hockey season. UNH is one I haven't hit. I've never been up the main domains. I don't think I've been, I haven't been to Merrimack yet either. But I think we had hit just about everything and this was going to be off season where we're going to kick off those last few and then the season got, got stunted. Best late plans, right? There you go. Yeah. All right. Well, Matt, we've, we've taken one of your time. So much for 20 minutes. Is that accurate? I think I took your time too. I just, I just

talk and talk and talk. I took the day off today because what the hell else am I going to do with PTO this year, you know? Yeah, I am good to go. Oh, I'm, I'm working today. You're on the clock right now. Yeah. All right. But yeah, I think I have no other, nothing else on my list that I want to bring up. Well, let's shout out is the Razor Show, right? That's your podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So the, yeah, the Razor Show on the athletic is, is up. But we haven't done any episodes since the off season. So it's Jeff Howe is there now. Obviously, Jeff Howe is our, our lead reporter guy and I'm the analyst. But the Razor Show has been, I think we did one episode after the Super Bowl and it's kind of set dormant. So if you're bored and you want to go listen to that episode from

last year, they're up, but we haven't been, we haven't been Razor Showing this off season yet. So Nick Underhill was the other writer, obviously, up with us at the athletic and Nick is now moved back down to New Orleans. So it's just Jeff and I right now and we're, we're not doing much. I'm just an in season writer. So I'm not really doing a whole hell of a lot right now. But if you're bored, you want to go look at all the stuff. It's, it's all their archives. Let's put it that way. Yeah, we'll throw a link in the show notes for that. Yeah. All right, Matt. Still doing Nessan. Nessan's the plug. There you go. So Nessan is, uh, we're, I think we're actually starting to, wow, but this is going to be, the show will be shown later. So maybe not

by then. Maybe by then we'll actually be on, on TV again. Who knows. But right now we're just doing the from home stuff. Oh man. All right. Well, thank you again, Matt. This has been fantastic. Yeah, it's been awesome. Thanks for having me. Yeah, my pleasure. All right, yeah. Take care, guys. Take it easy.