Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2001 Week 17: Patriots at Panthers

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

It's the last week of the season, so we figured it's finally time to bring in someone who knows what they're talking about. The brothers interview brother-in-law (and Panther fan) Bobby in the regular season finale as we get geared up for the playoffs!Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown, and while I have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons, and of course Michael, sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny, but really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. Welcome back to the Patriot Diocese podcast, week 17, we're actually keeping track.

We are down in North Carolina, we've decided. North Carolina. North Carolina. That's right, for Patriots at Panthers, last game of the regular season, a lot on the line here, at least for the Patriots, not so much for the Panthers, which we'll get into. But before we do, gentlemen, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. Muy bien.

Okay, you guys, welcome to my hometown. That's right, yeah. We're down. Go on a raise up. Make you share it off. What's that thing about North Carolina and South Carolina? I think he sings for all Carolinas. Is it?

No. No. It's North Carolina. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. North Carolinas get offended if you confuse them, because we know North Carolina wants to. Dude, people get pissed off if you call Raleigh Durham one thing.

Really? Really? This is an airport called the Raleigh Durham Airport. They consider them two separate cities? They are two separate cities. You son of a bitch. They're literally like right next to each other. Yeah.

Well, they're like 15, 20 miles apart. Yeah. That's true. And then those fucking losers over in Chapel Hill. You call. Yeah. Yeah. And now you're living Durham.

You are kind of the expert on what to call it. That's right. So stat check, what do we call that area? The triangle. The whole area? Yeah. Yeah. Steve is correct.

It's called the triangle. All right. Great. What are the three points of the triangle? Raleigh, Durham, and who the hell cares? Charlotte. Wait. Nope.

No. Chapel Hill. There you go. You know what they call? I think there's only cities in North Carolina, right? You know they call Raleigh? That's the same version of the triangle. What?

The triad. No. The DMV. Wait. That's not a great nickname. Maryland, Virginia, Delaware. No. No.

Delaware. DC. Yeah. The district, Maryland and Virginia. Yeah. The district. You know what they call Raleigh? Cowhamshire.

London Dairy. Mid Vegas. Michiganistan. That's probably more accurate these days, yeah. We couldn't afford a house in Dairy, so they moved us to London Dairy. Well, speaking of angry North Carolinans, we actually know one. So we thought we'd have them on the podcast to talk about his home team. Oh, Bobby.

It's our brother-in-law, Bobby. So enjoy that right now. So with us today, we have a special guest. It is our, I'd say, top three brother-in-law, would you boys agree? Top two. Come on. Top five. But it is, it is our sister's husband, Ellie's husband, Bobby Bridges.

And this is the point where Gregory says his name with the accent. Oh, Bobby. There it is. What the hell? So my first question, that leads into my first question, which is, Bob, we didn't have a choice to be in the Brown family, but you did and you chose this. Why? Well, I regret it every day, but at this point I'm stuck.

No, you guys are great. I mean, obviously I love Ellie, but the family is a nice icing on the cake. I love it. Hey, you're the icing on the cake too, Bob. Thanks, Greg. That's like a very PC answer. The Ellie cake. Yikes.

So, Bob, for those of you who don't know, born and raised in North Carolina, I can never remember which Carolina, Bob. They're not the same, Andy, but I'll handle that early slight and just move on. I'm from North Carolina. At least I got it right. You did. I had a 50-50 shot. How far from Charlotte were you, Bob?

About an hour. But you were kind of in the woods of North Carolina, right? That is true. Does your town have a name? Rumor has it that it didn't. We even have a post office, my friend. Oh, is that new? A little bit.

All right. So you grew up in kind of the woods of North Carolina. Sure. And the Panthers weren't a thing until you were probably what? Like nine or 10, I would think. They came to the league in 95. 95, so I was 10. So then did you get into football with the Panthers or were you already a football fan?

I would say more or less with the Panthers. I would say, as I remember it now, I was sort of a sports fan. But when I was a kid, like young, it was all the Braves. My dad loved the Braves, watched the Braves all the time. You know, this was their heyday. This was like Maddox, Glavin, those guys. I mean, I remember watching the last out of the World Series we won in 95. So I was all about the Braves.

You know, you've got college basketball. Everybody talks about UNC going on. And then honestly, at this time, I was a Hornets fan. So I remember my dad into a game in one of those years and around that time period, with a friend of his who got tickets and going to see the Hornets playing Michael Jordan in the Bulls. And I remember that I still got the ticket saved in like my scrapbox thing. Anyway, so football is far off the radar. Like my grandpa was a Redskins fan.

Like the Redskins were kind of the team of the territory. But I didn't really pay attention to it. We didn't have a team. It was like baseball. And then I was personally a little bit in the Hornets and you know, you had other stuff going on. So no, football, not on the radar at all. Yeah, because that's what I was wondering. So would the Redskins were the actual like team of the area?

Oh, yeah, unofficially, but big time. Are they the closest? I don't know. I think arguably geographically, yeah, but like culturally, that was the thing. Like there's still a little bit of friction there. There are still like holdout Redskins fans in the Carolinas for sure. Wow. Dude, there aren't even Redskins fans in DC anymore.

Confirmed. All right. Oh, I had a question about the Hornets. Is that the Mugsy Bogues era? It is. Good memory. The best. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, the way it played out was basically like, you know, this is a couple of years down the road, but when the Hornets thing happened and then they fucking left and everybody was pissed. Right. Oh, hey, we're allowed to curse on this podcast. Oh, yeah. Oh, fuck.

Yeah, you are. Anyway, when the Hornets owner fucking left town, I was already starting to get into the Panthers and have that early burst of success in their second season. They did. In the Jaguars as well. But man, the Hornets leaving and then the Braves dynasty kind of falling apart. It was like perfect timing for me then going to high school. It was like then all of a sudden all in on the Panthers and the football.

All right. Yeah, because yeah, like Steve, like Bobby was saying the second year for both because they both came in in 95 and in both teams second year randomly, they both made it to the conference championship of each. Each conference, obviously. Patriots playoff game against the Jaguars where like the lights stadium went out. Such a piece of shit. Yeah.

So so actually both teams lost to the obviously the eventual teams went Super Bowl and that was Super Bowl. The Patriots played the Packers. Yeah. So that was kind of a strange thing where because it was a bit of an anomaly too. They didn't have a winning season outside of that for a while. Like in 90, they started 95. They had that winning season in 96.

And then the next one wasn't till 2003. Who was their quarterback? Irline. And before that, Greg, I have no idea. Started with the team. How about Bob? Do you know who the original starting quarterback for the Carolina Panthers was? Oh, I don't remember.

It was one Terry Collins. I was going to say because it was their first pick, right? Yeah, I think so. Wait, no, we didn't pick him in the very first year. Yeah, 95, but he wasn't one overall. He was five for some reason. Fair enough. Yeah.

That's a whole other story with that fucking guy and his drunken nonsense. My dude used to drive. There was a report at once about him driving around Charlotte drunk, just yelling obscenities and racial slurs out the window. Oh, so he fits right in in Carolina. It was super annoying. Actually, when he when he easy now, it was annoying when he went to the Giants and like semi-resuscitated career for a few years.

Everybody's like, really this fucking washout asshole. Yeah. Goodness. Yeah. So we're kind of getting into the panthers right now in 2001. And this is the end of the George Seifert era. Did you have any comments about that? Because I actually read about George Seifert recently randomly.

Because I mean, when you first you pitch this, like I probably would have done it no matter what the game was. But when you told me when it was, I was actually, I was actually kind of excited to do this because the thing. The interesting thing about this game is like, it's kind of interesting what we just talked about with the AgWars connection and like randomness and like connections. Because then this moment was like, this was the very,

this was the lowest moment in the entire franchise's history. Yeah. This game could qualify, right? This game truly, it was like the capstone of the lowest period. So like end of Seifert, the one and 15 season that was ultra embarrassing. There was like winning that first game against Minnesota. We lost 15 straight. The team totally gave up on George Seifert,

which is like kind of the subtext of all of it. Like truly they like literally weren't playing. Guys were not like showing up and trying hard. Guys were faking injuries. It was like super embarrassing because like the team had that initial high and like folks in the Carolinas are really excited. And I remember that being like a really embarrassing low point of like, are they going to lose the fan base?

I actually looked this up today and prepped for this at that final game. This game against the past. I think they only had 16,000 people in attendance. Oh, wow. Um, so they were, you know, well, it was, it wasn't just that they were bad. It was like, it was that they openly gave up and like, that was the public talking point of like how embarrassing this team

and this coach and the morale were. Um, the other thing that happened here is the Ray Carruth thing overshadowed all this. Do you guys remember that? Oh, that was this year. No, it wasn't. Well, the incident wasn't this year. That was 99, but this, it was still playing out.

And I remember I looked it up today to confirm this. It was in this middle of this shit show season that he was actually big. Wow. And so that got all dredged back up and it was just like the faking low point for the franchise. Yeah. Good Lord. I mean, we got Chris Wanky trying himself out there.

Oh man. The team game up. But the interesting thing is then after this was, is what began really like, I mean, in my personal, like, kind of experience the golden age of Panthers football, like, and, you know, interestingly, it put us on a crossroads to meet again in that Super Bowl two years later, the Jake DeLum era. Exactly.

When Fox comes in, he cleans things up. Um, this is then me going right from end of high school and college and all of those seasons. But I remember quite fondly. Yeah. And, um, just to go back to see for real quick, I was reading and I was reading because it's the, uh, we're all locked down right now, but I was reading a book by Mike Lombardi,

who was the old GM of the Patriots. And before that, he was actually the GM of the 49ers. And his whole thing about Seaford was that because he, he took over for Walsh and the 49ers when they were Bill Walsh, when they were winning all those Super Bowls and everything. And they were that dynasty. And he took over from them. And basically what he was saying is that he knew how to run that

system, but he didn't know how to create it himself. So Bill Walsh created this system and ran it successfully with Montana forever. Uh, and then Seaford took over and kept it going. And want to see Super Bowl the first year he in like, when he was the head coach of the 49ers, uh, got to the conference championship a few times, one another Super Bowl and then lost in the division around a

couple of times and then moved on. And that was like moving from Montana to young and everything like that. So I think from what I remember of him coming in, there was a lot of high hopes from Carolina Panthers fans. Is that, is that something you remember? Or am I just making that up as like an outsider? No, that's right. I mean, it was interesting because he like Richardson,

who was the owner at the time, um, was like already known as a pretty patient owner. And so, you know, we started out with Dom Capers who like, say what you want about the guy. It was like pretty popular and pretty energetic and like the, even to that initial success and like was, you know, it didn't work out. And he had a bunch of like kind of bad mediocre to bad seasons

and left, but like he was generally liked and respected for like starting the franchise. Yeah. And then they, they clearly at that moment had like higher hopes and we're kind of aimed big and we're like, we're going to get this like, coach the champions to pedigree.

We think our team around quickly. And then it was just a shit show. And it was really clear. This is a guy who was used to coaching basically ready made championship teams. The news flash was not the Carolina Panther circuit 2000. This is true. So I think outside of this,

well, actually, no, before I get to that, um, as a Panther fan, how do you view the pages? Like what do you think of the Patriots? Hmm. Yeah, I mean, you don't have to hold back. This is a pro pages podcast, but where we scan the,

the, the whole gamut of their cheaters to the wrong. So. Yeah. I don't think there's honestly a lot there. I mean, you know, that Super Bowl we played was, you know, at the end of the day, it kind of gets forgotten in the,

in the whole big spectrum of things, but like it ended up being a really exciting game. Um, and you know, we were like clear underdog in that game and ended up like coming within, you know, the field goal. Yeah. And so it's not like there were like hard feelings per se. And then beyond that,

it's like, then how often do we meet? You know what I mean? It's like NFC, AFC. Yeah. The only other game I really remember in all the stretch was like, I think 2013, 13 or 15, but I think 13, we have this game where we played you guys.

Oh yeah. I just remember the equally non-called hold on the end zone to win that game. Yeah. We all remember that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember that one. And Brady was yelling at the rest on the way out. And Belichick. Super. Yes. So was it passing interference pop? It was. I mean,

it was definitely clearly within the boundaries of being called to hold. Okay. Fair. But you don't get it every call. You know, that's... You don't get every call. It's end of the game.

Yeah. It's going to like make or break. It was like clearly the game like ending play. It was home in Carolina. Yeah. It's one of those plays, man. They're probably not calling that shit in the Super Bowl, you know?

Yeah. And then they review it and then they're like, ah, we're going to let it stand. Fuck it, whatever. I mean, to be clear, also a super fucking legit play from Keekley, who knew what he was doing. Yeah.

And he could have been called to hold. Yeah. And I think he probably took a calculator of risk knowing that it was Gronkowski. And you may as well because there are times where he get the call. Either do everything you can or this motherfucker is fucking spiking on your fucking face.

So I was looking this up too. And I feel like outside of this one game in 2001, the Patriots and Panthers don't really play like boring games, you know? There was one in 2009 apparently that I don't remember at all. The Patriots won at home 20 to 10. But the other ones, those 2013 is what we're talking about

24, 20 with the Luke Keekley. It was 2017. More recently, I think that was one of Stefan Gilmore's first games, wasn't it? Yeah. And the Panthers exposed. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. And the Panthers won that one right at the end. 3330 on some dubious. There was like a defensive holding penalty called after Cam got sacked on third down or something like that. Kept the driver alive and went and kicked the field goal. And then of course the Super Bowl. So there haven't been many games where they haven't been

exciting. So I almost, when I was looking this up, kind of wanted to put the Panthers in that kind of low key nemesis isn't the right word, but just kind of like, it is almost a bit of a rivalry. Maybe they don't play each other very often. It's true. Although this game and that team are long dead.

I mean, I would now thinking back about this, put Panthers history in three eras. And this game is the very, this was the dead end of the first era of Panthers football. And then the John Fox era was really the second era. And then the like Ron Rivera, Cam Newton era, which honestly maybe is now, maybe we call it the end of the third era right now.

Those are the arrows so far. And apparently that the Panthers have sold out every home game since 2002. So starting in that second era. Wow. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense from my perspective, from a like upward trajectory of the franchise.

And like, what I said about the Redskins thing earlier, like, that was like, that was an actual conscious narrative by the franchise. Like they knew they were constantly under threat, actually wins hands over. And there were a lot of conscious decisions. So calling them Carolina Panthers was a very calculated decision.

Like they've been in Charlotte and North Carolina. And Charlotte's, you know, similar on the border. But it was very conscious to try to grow a large fan base knowing they had an uphill battle decline with college basketball, with the Redskins, with baseball. And honestly, it's really since 2002 and up that they've actually been able to successfully, like they basically put that argument to rest that they weren't going to be able to

thrive as a small market franchise. Yeah, I would agree with that. So, so is Charlotte Panthers town? Oh, yeah. For sure. Raleigh, Raleigh Durham, not really in my experience, because so I live in Durham. And that is definitely like college basketball.

Yep. Like UNC, Duke, NC State are definitely the highest priority. 100%. Football fans that are local are probably, they're like, yeah, I'm a Panthers fan, but it's not like you get Patriots fans back home or like ride or die, you know. I think that's totally true. And I think that that part of the state will always put college

sports first and foremost. I think Charlotte and Western North Carolina are different. And honestly, the thing that gets forgotten to what I just said is like a huge part of their fan base is South Carolina, which has always been more football territory anyway. Yeah. And like they do draw a huge base of their support there, particularly like the black portion of the fan base is really,

really heavily draws on like population of South Carolina, which is part of the reason why Cam has been such a big deal. Yeah. So are you glad Cam's gone? No, I'm super sad. Good. Hey, we get it. It's, it's a very, it's a very sad moment for the franchise

and for everybody. Yep. Good. Good. I mean, it's a savvy signing. Like, you know, if you look at the market and where the league's at right now, sure, it's like a decent contract. It's like, it makes sense.

And like, you know, you got to view this through the prism of new ish owner who wants to make his mark and new coach. Sure. Fine. But at the same time, from a standpoint of what we've accomplished, like it's tough and it's really sad to see things in this way. And, you know, the injuries really derailed the last two years. And like,

I still look back on that stupid ass preseason game last season when they played Cam and didn't need to. And he hurt his foot. Yeah. Against the past. And it's just like, you can't help but wonder how things play out differently with everybody with Ron, with Cam the season.

It's like hard to stomach that. And I've been a little on the outside of it the last year and a half, but it's just, it's just tough thinking about it should have played out differently and Cam, I mean, I would posit Cam's the most important player in franchise history in many ways. And he doesn't get, I think in retrospect,

it'll be interesting to see how his narrative plays out because it's tough because he's been under constant fire the whole time that he's been our quarterback and a lot of it has been undeserved in my opinion. Yeah. I agree. I don't know if he doesn't like do himself that many favors with his and my dude puts his foot in his mouth five times a season. And he hit the way like his,

have you seen his like cryptic font? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's so stupid. Like honestly, if I could talk to Cam, I would be like, Hey man, look, I love you.

And let me tell you all the reasons why I'm a huge fan. Also, let me tell you three stupid ass things. Can you just put that shit out? Let's hear that three things, Bob. Yeah. Well, the fucking Instagram font or whatever it is, and you know how to do the social media thing,

but I knew what the font is and it's done. I don't know, man. You know, the fashion thing's interesting. I think it's more the like, he didn't do himself favors early on with like the pouting. And it's like, Hey man, it's actually good for you to be fucking pissed, but you're not taking notes on how that's accepted.

Like Brady can be pissed, but like you can't, you can't, it just came across as pouty early in his career. And I think it's from a guy who like was used to just being successful. And like, honestly, the thing that the narrative that was wrong was that it impacted

the team because I really don't think it ever did. I think that the players always had his back and understood where he's coming from and took it the right way of my dude really fucking wants to win. But from a broader narrative standpoint, he just like that, that shit really sank him. But then I mean, we could spend a whole nother podcast going into the way

which all of this shit was unfairly judged through a lens of race and like the way his like charisma and sort of defiance and like fashion, like, honestly, all of that stuff is like he's really unfairly criticized for. Sounds like you just started your own podcast, Bob. Yeah, maybe, maybe one day. Probably a time in your hands.

All right, so my last question, we may have already touched on this. What is your favorite Patriots Panthers game? Favorite Patriots Panthers game. Yeah, we kind of talked through them a little bit. I mean, the honorable mention that 2013 game, I remember well, Ellie and I were living in Williamsburg. I was watching on my TV and I remember,

you know, you have those memories watching a football or any sports where like a game happens and like you win or whatever happens and like, you just have that fucking high. Like, I remember it was like, it was like, I think it was Sunday night football and it was like mad fucking late. It was like 11. I had to be up ridiculously early for school next year. I drank like fucking eight beers or something.

I was like, this is stupid. I'm going to feel like shit tomorrow. But I had to just, I just had to go out. I like went and fucking took a walk around the neighborhood and put my head fucked in. So I was just so backed up. And I just remember that. But that, I mean, I still can't put that in first place because like

that Super Bowl in 2003 just mits so much. Like it really just sparked. For me personally, it sparked like a turbocharged phase of like, I mean, I would say Panthers and football, but honestly sports fandom in general. Like I don't, without that, I don't know if I become a read ESPN several times every day kind of sports fan. I really don't.

Yeah, I would agree with you. That probably what happened to me too in 2001 with the Patriots. Yeah. I was just going to say it's got some parallel there, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I've always thought that of like, would I be a huge football slash Patriots fan if it wasn't for the Pats?

Because it's like, it was Red Sox City before all this happened. You know? Oh yeah. The Patriots are always that laughing stock of, you know, they'll eventually fuck this up somehow. It's just a matter of how they're going to do it. Yeah. Which I think is probably pretty common in a lot of,

a lot of towns with a lot of sports too, you know, a lot of teams. I was like Bob with the Bruins when I was a little kid. I have my first Bruins game ticket for 97 when the fleet center opened. Oh yeah. Fleet center. Right. Jesus. That's a throwback.

All right. Do you boys have any other questions for Bob? Oh yeah. All right. Let's hear it. Who's your favorite Panthers player, both all time and now? All time is Steve Smith. Of course.

I, but he, he really represented that second era of Panthers football in so many ways. It was like the underdog status, the chip in his shoulder. It was the fact that like the Panthers don't have a lot of swagger, but Steve Smith had a fucking mountain of swagger and wasn't afraid to tell you. There's just so many moments like, I always remember the moment when he like destroyed Fred's moot on the

Vikings and ruined his career and told him to ice up after the game. I forgot about that. But in the, in the playoff run, they went to the Super Bowl. The play that I'll always remember is we played the Rams in the divisional round and it went to like double overtime. Yeah. And that was like low key. You know, it was interesting.

It was past the like, um, great show in turf Rams, but it was still like kind of the remnants of that with Mark Bulger and they were 12 and four that year and like on paper a lot better than us. And I remember double overtime. I just remember the, it was like, I think it was the first play of double overtime and it was just like Steve Smith, um, straight up slant route up really cut through the corner back in the safety, just streaking down the field, catching the ball into the end zone.

And like, I was watching the play at some friend's house and, uh, things got heated, right? It was a back and forth game. Um, but I'll never forget that play. And I remember my friend's mom after that. There were a bunch of guys, not all of whom were actual football fans. It was like me and my friend Daniel and a bunch of other kids we just hung out with.

And after the game, my friend, like everybody gradually moved away from the room and I was watching the game then because of, you know, my composure. Um, I remember my friend's mom saying to me later after that game, she's like, if the panther, if the panthers had lost this game at all, I don't think I would have let my sons hang out with you anymore. So definitely, definitely Steve Smith. Like he's, he's in my mind the most iconic player in this history.

And funnily enough, his first season was this 2001 season. It was, it was, and made the Pro Bowl as a, as a return man. Exactly. Yeah. But then 2003 was the Super Bowl season was really his breakout with the receiver. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Current, I mean, if we're counting last season, um, I mean, wow, Keekley, it's just like, I'm not ready to process his retirement. So I'll put that there. But honestly, like also low key, like Greg Olson, and he's one of the rare players who's come to the Panthers, who has a transplant and

wasn't drafted by us has become, I would argue, like in the, like, we might go so far as like top 10 Pantheon in terms of like important voices for the franchise. Wow. Who drafted Greg Olson? The Bears. Oh, that's right. They did.

Yeah. I've always associated him with the Panthers. Yeah. You see exactly. Yeah. And I don't, I can't really think of another guy for the Panthers who's in that level with the franchise who we didn't draft. Like they low key have had a lot of success with like franchise level

players. They've drafted transplants, not so much, um, which is why I think Olson stands out so much. And like it's also an indicator of like how sour things have gotten in the past three to four years with ownership and the management that like, he went out pretty vocally being like, yeah, fuck these guys. And like, when Cam posted his shit about recently about like, don't try to pretend like I asked you for this trade.

Right. Like responded to that shit and was like, yeah, that sounds right. Um, and like Olson has enough capital to publicly fucking call the team out on shit like that. But anyway, sad to see both those guys go. So it's, it's kind of almost feel like another parallel with the Patriots this year. And it feels like they're almost kind of cleaning house as well with,

with Brady leaving and everybody else seeming to be getting signed the other way. Yeah. New era, man. Yeah. So we feel your love. Who's your least favorite panther? Also Steve Smith.

That's a really interesting question. Oh man. There's a lot. I'm trying to think about that for a moment of like, who pissed me off the most Jimmy Colson. Oh, Boston was just like not to even be considered. You know what I mean?

She's like, this guy, get the fuck out. Um, least favorite panther. Man, who was really frustrating over the years? I mean, Greg Hardy, but that was more like,

what an idiot. Yeah. Not like frustrating as much as like, fuck that guy. Yeah. No, what a, what a, what a just like not good person. Um,

I would say least favorite panther. I'm trying to figure out the guys, but they're always the guys who you never trusted. Right. Like in the big moment who were always like, you know what, you just know, get off the field. Like a rush.

All type of guy. Yeah. I would say every number two receiver in panther's history. Except for Moussin Muhammad. Yeah. That's funny. That's a good one. It is true.

And if you, if you look at like that team that cam Newton took to the Super Bowl, the 15 and one team, what a joke. Yeah. They're receiving core is the laughable. It's truly,

give me some names. It's, it was a, I mean, Ted, again, um, 10 touchdowns that season,

Devin Funches, right? Yeah. And then from there, it's dudes like you wouldn't even recognize their name. No. Holy shit. Let's say yeah.

All right. So, top receiving guys deal by yards. Greg Olson led the team in receiving yards. Does that make sense? Yeah. Ted, again,

Jericho, Oh, that's right. One song. I love country. That's an NC State guy. Oh, there you go.

Homegrown boy. Devin Funches. And then Corey Brown. Who? Our cousin. They called him Philly Brown. Yeah. Oh,

Philly Brown. Yeah. A bunch of dudes that really didn't, really didn't have business starting in the NFL, much less on the Super Bowl team. Yeah. Yeah. You're not kidding.

And after that, your fullback, Mike Tolbert, left over. He went to the Pro Bowl that year, apparently. Yeah. Tolbert.

Tolbert was good people. His impact was probably overstated on the field, but he was, he was good people. That's fair. So here's a, here's just a little tidbit for you. Just,

you can take to your Panthers parties. Steve Smith, you know, his actual name. Hmm. Stevan. No. Stevan LaTroll Smith.

Interesting. So there you go. You want to know Ray Carouse real name? Yes. Ray, Ray Lamar, Theotis Wiggins. Right.

Wait, what? That seems like Carouse. I think it was his stepdad or something like that. I mean, low key, there's been a lot of contra, like that, and then stirred up in the last year or two,

because he got released from jail. He did. Yeah. Oh. Did I know that? Yeah. And then basically decided to continue being a really awful person in the public eye.

Like he started off with, he's like, you know what, I'm going to apologize. And then took that apology really south. How much do you guys remember? Didn't know the story. I read about it a bit today. The headline is,

he paid a guy, a friend of his, to shoot, like do a drive-by shooting at the car of his girlfriend, who was pregnant with his eight month old, unborn child. And so she dies. They do an emergency sea selection,

deliver the baby. The baby, however, had like cerebral palsy and other things, because it's been like 70 minutes without air, oxygen during this whole process. Anyway, the baby is still alive. He's a guy. His name's Chancellor.

He's alive now as grandmother. The girl's mom is taking care of him. This motherfucker, Ray Kruth gets out of jail and has the gall to be like, guys, I want to apologize. And also, I'd like to get custody of my son. And everybody's like,

like Charlotte lost his fucking mind. I can't imagine why. It's like, hey man, he's been 19 years in prison. He just quietly fucking disappeared somewhere. He's just Christ. Jesus. That's pretty bad.

Anyway, so that's ongoing. No. Well, all right. There's a new leader in the clubhouse for Lee's favorite panther. There's never really an argument if you come down to it. He truly tarnished. He truly tarnished the franchise in a way that was like,

I don't see anybody topping that. Yeah. He was the first round pick too. He was. Wow. Was he any good on the field? He was for one season and then he was like injured and shit. Yeah, he's all right.

Yeah, I didn't put up much numbers. All right. Fuck him. So Bob, are the Patriots your number two team now? Or is it like the North Carolina Panthers in Buffalo? Steve. Steve. Steve, there's no such thing as a number two team.

There are 32 teams and you cheer for one and you don't cheer for the other 31. All right. Well, that's my philosophy. Let me tweak that a little bit. Are you going to root for Cam Newton wherever he goes this year? We've been having with Brady. I'm going to hope Cam does well because I really think he

deserves a shot. I think if he gets healthy, I think he can be good. And no, I won't. I won't come to do well. I'm not going to cheer for his team, but I hope Cam does well. And I think it's important that he does well. What if he goes to the Patriots then? Will you cheer for his team?

I'm not going to cheer for his team. No, I've already made this clear, Steve, but I will support Cam. And I hope he does well. But what about your wife and your two daughters? I mean, they're all Patriots fans. That's fine. I don't support them in that. She's the support of dad and husband.

God, Bob. Not going to win. I am who I am. All right. I'm transitioning that to my next question. Who's your favorite brother-in-law? All right, let's roll off of that. Who's your least favorite brother-in-law?

Here we go. Is it just based on this podcast or in general? Do both. Yeah, great. Great. Yeah, I'm going to... You know what? This is going to be lengthy.

On the podcast, I'm going to start next. I'm going to do an episode on this. All right. I love it. All right. Well, we've kept you long enough away from your family. We appreciate you doing this, Bob. Thanks for joining us.

Indeed. This has been great. Yeah. I hope the game talk is as good as the prelude. Oh, it usually isn't. But yes, I appreciate that. We don't really talk about the game. Fair enough.

But I think we'll have to have you back the next time we talk about the Panthers because that will be in 2003 in the Super Bowl. Count me in. All right. Love it. And this time we'll actually have you on for the whole game because that one is actually probably when you'll want to watch. Indeed.

Cool. All right. Thanks a lot, Bob. Thanks, Bob. Thanks, dudes. Carry on. Talk to you soon. I guess we're back.

I don't know how to transition out of that. I don't remember how we ended it. Thanks, Bobby. It's a week 17. You know, even if it transitions down at the end of Jesus. I do, but not for interviews because they haven't ever done one before. It's a good point. Yeah.

So I guess now that Bobby has told us how much the 2001 Carolina Panthers have sucked, we should probably start there, don't you think? I was I was personally surprised at how little I knew about the Panthers for one. And also that this was kind of their lowest of the low moments in history. And then like when Bobby said, because I hadn't watched the game when we did the interview and when Bobby said that there was only like, what, 16,000 people this game? Oh, yeah, it seemed like less. Yeah, I was going to say, like, I don't even think it was half that.

And of those, they were saying like 60% were Patriots fans. I will say that you said they quit a team and they actually played pretty hard from one and 14 team. I thought it was like, you know, you see it in score, which I don't forget what it was, but it was a shitload to nothing. And you're like, wow, we just rolled them over right away. But it really wasn't like that. Yeah, I thought that the first half I thought they competed. Definitely did.

So the second half was hot garbage. Pro football reference says it's the attendance was 71,000. I was going to bring that up. No way. Because I looked up to get an actual number. Yes, it's 71,907. Maybe as a typo, it's supposed to be one seven instead of seven one. I mean, maybe they sold me tickets, but there was like, it was empty.

You would like look at the lower bowl and you'd see some people sitting at the top of the lower bowl. And you're like, what are you doing? Move down. So it reminded me of the few games, MLS games I've gone to at Gillette Stadium for like the revolution back in the day when you get free tickets because they couldn't sell it. How dare you disrespect the reps. I'm not. I'm just I'm just equating this where they would shut down the top bowl so that it wouldn't look as empty.

And they put everybody on one side of the fields. Yeah. Opposite the camera. Yeah. The Reds can do that too. They've like blocked off part of their upper bowl. Right, exactly. Like they've like put like permanent like fencing.

Remember, Greg, when we went, we were sitting against that fencing. Yes. He's behind us and then like it was like like chain like fenced and like tarps over it. Jesus. So like to like have their percentage full be higher. Yeah. They were they were social distancing before it was cool. Ten years before it was cool.

Yeah. So yeah, a bit about these Panthers. I mean, we've heard a little bit from Bobby already, but as we discussed there, they would finish one in 15, which the commentators pointed out nicely at the end of this game that they won their first game of the season and then went on to lose the rest of them. And that was the longest losing streak in an NFL season ever. Nobody had lost more than 15 games in a row. Then the Lions are like hold my beer. Right. Eventually that would be broken a few years after this.

But that was for a single season, right? Yes. Yeah. For one season. It was the longest losing streak in one season. Who has the longest losing streak ever? Is it the old Bucks or was it the Lions? I guess the Bucks.

I think it's the Bucks. Yeah. I agree. All of the Browns, I don't know what theirs looked like those two years where they went one in 32. That's got to be up there, depending on when that win came. Isn't they go one in 15 and then one in 16 the next year? I'm going to say the Bucks because fuck the Bucks. Yeah.

I think I looked briefly and it was like 23 straight games or something. That's not great. Yeah. We talked about George Seyfried already. Well, not anymore. They got Brady now. They're about to go on a 23 game winning streak. What was longer?

The Bucks losing streak or the Patriots winning streak when they went like was it 0304 or they won a ton in a row? One in a row, right? I believe it was. They did win a shitload in a row. I remember that. I think it was 21 in a row. That's the longest active NFL win streak.

Yes. Or all time. Yeah. You could say the Patriots have the longest single-season winning streak as well because they won 18 games in a season. That's true. I was looking up the best way to describe their season. I don't know if you've ever been on Urban Thesaurus, but it's fucking awesome.

Is this an Urban Thesaurus? Really? Yeah. It just gives you like equivalent words. I only knew about the Patriots. Yeah, I do. I suggest you go to Urban Thesaurus at some point because it's so funny. So I put in Dumpster Fire.

Some of this shit is hilarious. Trash your babies. Hobo salad. Dead Man's Dumpster Diving. Necropyro bestiality. It's getting darker as you go along. Alaskan Fire Dragon. Lobito Sewer.

Fuck. I can read this shit all day. There's like 600 of them. Oh my God. I remember I might have a new podcast idea. Anal Backdraft. God, Lord. This whole podcast has been worth it just for that one little nugget of knowledge.

Right? I wish we knew this so we could ask Bobby that question. What better describes this season? Of these four options. What would you choose? Dumpster Fire. Anal Backdraft. What are the other ones?

Pyrohomo Necrobestialiac. All right. Now we're getting crazy. Yeah. So speaking of Dumpster Fires, this coaching staff, we talked about George Seyfried already. Some of the other coaches you may recognize, Mike McCoy. Remember him?

Chargers coach from like 2013-2016. He was their wide receivers coach. And then also Greg Roman. Who is currently the offensive coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens. And that record. All right. He's in high demand. He really is.

Yeah. He wasn't back then if you look at this offense. Because I did my best to come up with names to you guys on this offense. There really aren't any. The Winky Man. Yeah. Former Heisman winners. Is that what they said?

It was really good in college. Yeah. And who are the commentators? The commentator duo of Kevin Harlan and Craig James. Our own Craig James were doing this game. I actually liked them. Yeah. They did all right.

And that's coming from Andy. You know they were great. They're definitely not the A team though. I will say that. And I think they knew it so they were just having fun with it, which is why. Right. Like when he calls out the block.

Like the on the touchdown run, they got called back. Yeah. And then rest immediately. He's like, what a great block like in the play. Yeah. Yeah. That guy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I love Compton wearing the visor. It's like, like drizzling overcast in December. There's snow in North Carolina. Got the visor on. Yeah. It was like 36 degrees and like freezing rain.

And you could see snow around the sidelines and stuff. Yeah. I don't think it's snow down there, Greg. I'm surprised anybody's ill look at the stadium. Once a year. I figured they would have shut down the state. So Chris Winkie. Fun fact.

He spent six years at the Blue Jays before. Going to Florida State. So he was 20. He was 26. When he enrolled at Florida State. So he must have been, I don't know, close to 30 by time. Yeah. He got drafted.

Because I remember that he was, what was the other guy from Oklahoma State? The guy from the Browns. Yeah. He was the same type of guy. Yeah. Huh. It didn't help him much that time in the Blue Jays. I don't think.

His completion percentage, I looked it up with 54% on the year. For the Panthers. I think that's an average 56. That sounds low. That sounds low. 54 is not great. He completes just barely one of every two passes. And a lot of those are to the other team.

He had 11 touchdowns and 19 interceptions. Yeah. He threw a couple of bad pick sixes in this game. He threw more than a couple. He just got lucky that one of them got called back for holding on the return. The one that I love is so bad though. Yes. None of them are good.

The second one got deflected, right? You can call that a lucky. It wasn't a great throw, but a little lucky. But yeah, one to tie off. It's just awful. Yeah. So he just, I don't know if it's a flaw of his that nobody knew about, but the guy couldn't throw an out pattern to save his life.

Literally every single interception that he threw was on an out pattern and he just hit the defensive back right in the hands. With nobody in front of him. Oh yeah. No, nobody. Yeah. I did. I have a note here about Steve Smith was a guy who's been targeting.

And this was rookie year. And Bobby said it took him a couple of years to figure it out. I don't know. Steve Smith flashed in this game. Well, fumbled. I was just going to say. So like Bobby was saying, Steve Smith's first few years was more of a kick returner.

And once the Pro Bowl for kick returns in this season, but his kick returning in his game was God awful. Like every time he, I mean, there was a bunch of kickoffs. Patriots scored 38 points in this game. And every single one of them, he ran directly into the nearest defender and got just ragdolled every time it felt like. Yeah. Like as a receiver, he was pretty solid.

I mean, he had that one big play that got called back. Yep. He was, I have a note on here. He's, he's spinning the ball down 31. Every time he caught the ball, he would, he would catch it near the sidelines. Instead of stepping out, he would hit the guy, the defender and try to like lower his shoulder until I'm going to get knocked out of bounds anyway,

because he's so small and then spin the ball and start yapping. Yeah. 31 to six. Yeah. So. Forever. Yeah. 100% compete 100% of the time.

I will say there weren't many plays that I thought he was butthole naked open. It's an interesting way to describe naked, but sure. That was his quote. Remember? Yeah. Yeah. They made the mistake of putting him behind a desk at a half-time show. I don't know what gave them the idea that that would go well.

But I think that was his quote was you got to, yeah, something about being butthole naked open. We talked about ad nauseam in the episode where we're all together. Yes, Steve. Come on. Pay attention. No, I was doing a lot in that episode. No kidding.

Didn't show it all. Don't worry. I like him because he's like, he knows a lot of like false bravado in the NFL. Yeah. The Josh Normans of the world. Yeah. The come at me bros. Yeah.

He strikes me as like legitimate crazy man bravado where he authentically believes he's that much better than everybody. Yeah. And I would, I would be willing to bet that he would fight literally anyone. Yeah. Like a hammer. Just thinking he would be able to win every fight. Do you think T.O. is in that?

Like, how do you put T.O.? T.O. is a bit self-aware for me, you know? Yeah. It's similar, but not the same. It's more like he knew what he was doing almost. Yeah. He knew what he was doing. He was, he was like playing the media to a certain degree.

Oh, definitely. Whereas Steve Smith is just like, he's out of his mind. Yeah. I think T.O. is more of a showman. Yeah. Like he was going to put on a show and he was talented enough to do that. Like he was going to pull the Sharpie out of his sock or go stand on the, the star in Dallas.

You know, that's what it is. Yeah. That's fair. Who else is an authentic crazy man bravado? Yeah. Who's the closest comp to that? Heinsmore. Rodney Harrison's.

Always struck me as like that. Nah, he's too quiet. Yeah, he was. But he was, he was fearless though. Yeah. Oh yeah. In the same way that Steve Smith is. Hmm.

I actually wrote, I wrote a blog on it, Andy. You did? On what? On Steve Smith? Maybe on Jalen Ramsey when he was being a clown. Oh yeah. Yeah. What's our website called?

Brownbro Sports.com. You should probably know that. Apparently you've been writing recently too, huh? Oops. Isn't it, isn't it linked on the pages dynasty site as well? Uh, maybe. I don't know. Did you even read the blog I wrote recently?

Based on the blog recently? Yeah, I have. About Alex Van Pell. No, I didn't know you wrote it. Yeah. It's the title of the blog is Alex Van Pell is your wife's favorite player. And it's just, there's not many words in it.

It's just pictures of him looking like a stud. The last thing even our friends could read. Yeah. The 50 shades of Rex or whatever it was. That's when it started getting weird. Yeah. When it started getting good. Yeah.

Then you stop writing. Oh, Kobe Bryant. He's another one that was like authentic. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great comp. Yeah.

What about Pedro? He's also a little quiet. He wasn't really though. But many to T.L. There's a good comp. Yeah. I would give you that. Many like putting on a show.

All right. Speed. Speaking of the Panthers game. Way the fuck off track yet again. Any other names you guys recognized? I tried to put together a list. I did not recognize was there running back. Richard.

Yeah. Dude. What was his final stat line? He was a lot. He was a stat check. Rushing on though. He had like 100 yards by like mid second quarter. 21 carries 168 rushing yards.

Yeah. And like 100 of those plus came by in the first quarter and a half. Yeah. It was a close game. So just for some context. He led the lead the team in rushing with 665 yards. And he got 107. He got almost 170 in this game.

Oh my God. Yeah. They had the worst rushing offense in the league and they're sitting there just gashing the pages over and over. Yeah. Like we fumbled on the one yard line. Right. Yeah.

So there was yeah. Yeah. Like three and gold goes and got a field go out of it or some shit like that. Yeah. Yeah. So the first round of pages had like they got first in goal from like the four of the five and actually scored the touchdown that you talked about, but they got called back for holding my Compton on the fantastic

block that Craig Jameson. And then they end up settling for field goal. And then like a few plays later, Winky throws his first pick six of the game. Yeah. Yeah. Who outruns Steve Smith, which I thought was pretty cool. Steve.

Steve. Steve Farm. On the way. If you get a visual of that. Pick six. Yeah. Just imagine the one on the Super Bowl and the other side of the field. Yeah.

Yeah. Same thing. Out row. Yeah. I throws it behind the receiver title. I just catches it. Except Chris would be wasn't pressured at all and just threw a terrible pass. That's true.

And so they get the ball back and literally the next play Winky throws another what should have been a pick six. Yeah. Oh, to Smith, which only wasn't because it got called back for holding on the return by whoever the defender was. So the pads get the ball and like on the 35 convert a fourth and two, get to fourth and goal like the two.

And as Antoine Smith is running into the end zone, he fumbles it on the goal line and the Panthers recover. Then like their first play from the one yard line was a handoff to that dude and he ran to like the 25. Yeah. Like the 45 and this is like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

It was he was basically the entire Panthers offense. The entire game really. Yeah. He had more rushing yards than Winky had passing yards. And he stopped getting the ball in the second quarter too. It was crazy. Yeah. They got down so bad.

It was not great. Yeah. Carolina finished with 193 total rushing yards, which is brutal and no touchdowns. But the name of the game was turnovers. Carolina had six of them to the Patriots three, which still not great. Yeah.

But I mean, I don't know how you guys felt about this, but watching this game, I didn't think, I can see how this team won the Super Bowl. Because like you said, going into this game is absolute rubbing and 38 to six. And like, oh yeah, I feel like I remember them just like beating the shit out of the Panthers. And kind of in the passing defense.

Yeah. Because the Patriots defense outscored the Panthers offense technically because they had two pick sixes. But they were getting gashed in the run and the commentators were talking about how, you know, they have to worry about, I think it was the Steelers running game and the Ravens as well who'd won the Super Bowl the year before. You don't want to, you don't want to face them and all that stuff.

Right. Exactly. Well, I mean, I think it was like, you can, if you look at it from like Ballochek's view, right? Where like complimentary football and it's not just about the offense, because the offense was not very good. But there is a, you know, the defense, they punted and got them down to the one, right?

And then the defense held them and then they punted it too far and Troy Brown took that to the house. And that's like, special teams creates defense, special teams creates touchdown, blah, blah, blah. Steve, I was going to make the same point. Damn. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Unbelievable. I had a written down in my notes, Ballochek football. It was actually a very similar return to that Steelers game. Yeah. Very astute of you, Steve. It was too deep. And then Troy took it right up the gut. And then you're like, is the punter going to get him?

Yeah. Yeah. Dude, as soon as you got past that first wave, there wasn't somebody within like 20 yards of Troy Brown. Has Troy Brown ever been tackled by a punter or a kicker? Probably not. Never. Because he's never really returned a kick against Adam

and Terry, apparently. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Oh, that would be, that would be a matchup. Oklahoma drill with Vinitaria. Like in 2022, like current Troy Brown and current Adam and Terry, that would be amazing.

My money's on current Troy Brown. I don't care. Yeah. Troy Brown, he's shifty, man. Well, he's our cousin. You got it bad on him. I guess. Well, speaking of Troy Brown, this is probably a good time

to bring this up. He was playing like in front of his family. They were talking about how. Yeah. I think it was in the paper that he, like this, because he's from, I think he's from North Carolina. Can we stat check this? I'm going to keep getting some views.

I honestly don't care about the fact that there's two Carolinas. No offense, Greg. I mean, you can take offense if you want. I don't really care. You don't care that there's two? I do, but I don't care to, if somebody tells me they're from one of them, I'm not going to remember which one. They're culturally very different, Andy.

Maybe you should read a book. Not about the Carolinas. Get your head out of your ass. Get your dick out of your hand. Oh boy. So he baby. So Troy Brown comes, comes home to his home state. They're talking about how he bought like a hundred tickets

for this game for like friends and family. And I think he brought like a Pee Wee football team in the game and something like that. And this was a great game to watch if you're a Troy Brown fan. Like I said, he had that 61 year apartment turn for a touchdown. He also eventually set the all time Patriots single season reception record, which if you remember, it was like, I think it was like right before the half.

And he had to catch that, that set the record. But then it got challenged and overturned because he didn't completely catch it. And they kept like showing him the camera on him. You just like laughing and smile. You can tell he's like kind of pissed off. It doesn't want to show. He's like, God, that was that fucking record.

And then when he did it, they didn't say shit. Exactly. Yeah. And it didn't happen much longer afterwards, but. Yeah. No, like video montage. I was expecting something with Drew Brees. They stopped the fucking game and like, God damn plaque out there. Where's Troy Brown's plaque?

Dude. Oh, that was the worst. They did it again this year, too. Oh, when he did the touchdown record this year. Yeah. No, no, no, the regular season touchdown record. Yeah. Right.

It was in the middle of the night game. And I had frigging Michael Thomas. It was the last and they just pull them in like the second quarter. There was like 38, nothing. And all the announcers would talk about his Drew Brees. Course, yeah, I was so mad. But back to why this is a great Troy Brown game is that Antoine Smith, uh, running touchdown, like I think is the

first touchdown for the offense order along, Troy Brown has his guy, the cornerback on like roller skates. And he's like pushing him all the way back in the end zone from like 25 yards out. Oh, yeah. That's classic Troy Brown right there. Just blocking like a beast on the edge to get on the untouched. All right. Yeah.

It's also a good tie law game. It was a great time. I thought it was a fantastic Otis Smith game. He had two picks, which technically returned both for a touchdown and one guy called back. He broke up a ton of deep passes. We probably should have had like three or four picks in this game. You just can't catch, but, and, uh, I wasn't going to say this

for my best, but, um, there was one play where he was lined up on the far side of the field and he came on a corner blitz and you got to watch the entire thing unfold and it felt like watching, um, like a national geographic thing where you can have the lion, the lion like hunting, like coming down on the, on the prey. You're like, Oh, he's going to get him. He's going to get him.

He better throw that football. And Chris Winky just didn't even feel him like for a second. He got lit up. That was, that was just fantastic television. Yeah. Cause that was the camera angle and everything. Yeah. So I have, I have a note on here. That missed tackle by Winky and then the high step pick six.

That's Otis is like pick six in the fourth quarter. Yeah. Is the gift of Winky's career. You think so? Yeah. To sum it up. Hey, you're great in the pros, but then down 31 six, make it 31 eight week a third pick six of the game.

Yeah. Yes. Because he was never any good, right? No. No, not the NFL. Rip Van Winky. Nicely done. You just coming up with these or these are the existing.

Oh no. Chris, I wish, I wish I were an Oscar Meyer Winky. Yeah. You're fine. Oh, he's digging deeper. He's up his elbow. It's a website called the Berman files. No, it isn't.

You hear a name like Winky and you're like, there's a nickname for that. Yeah. They're all amazing websites today. I know, right? We'll have to put all these links in the show notes so that other people can. Oh, there was one. There was one where I didn't want to interrupt you guys on the. Will listen.

Yeah. So the dumpster fire one purple headed Christian meat missile. How does that have anything to do with dumpster fire? Who knows, dude? It's just sometimes words go well together. Yeah. Give me that one more time. Purple headed Christian meat missile.

Kirk Cousin's real name. That's his nickname in high school. Holy shit. Oh, well, I have one more thing about Troy Brown. That I forgot to bring up at the beginning of this. And before we get sidetracked again. Before this game, um, pro bowlers were announced. Brady and Malloy both made the pro bowl, but Troy Brown didn't,

which is kind of bullshit because he had like one of the best seasons. Receiving in the league and he was also like, yeah, exactly. So, um, because of Boston Globe article about it and everybody was piss form apparently. And, uh, this is what the globe had to say. His friends and fans were angry upon learning Troy Brown had been overlooked for the AC Pro Bowl team, but not Brown himself.

No big deal said Brown, who will officially be named an alternate to the Pro Bowl later this week. A lot of great players who were selected ahead of me. There's nothing I can say about it. A lot of guys in here on the team weren't happy about it, but it's out of my control. The important thing is that I have the respect of my teammates and that we're heading into the playoffs and trying to get to the Super Bowl.

I'm not upset or angry or anything like that. I've just tried to go out every week and do whatever it takes to help the team. Fucking Troy Brown, man. Oh, I give 110% fucking love. That's just who he is though. Oh yeah. That's okay. Troy Brown's always been my favorite Patriots player.

Forever. Yeah. Have you seen that Brendan Fraser movie where he's like the sweaty guy in the locker room? Troy Brown is the sweaty guy in the locker room. No, what the fuck? Brendan Fraser is. Where are we tying this in? Yeah, where is he?

They're interviewing him and he's talking about, oh, I just gave 110%. That sounds familiar actually. What? Nevermind. You cut this part. Killed it. I'm going to send you guys the link after and you'll be like, oh man, that's funny. Every time I hear a player give a bullshit response like that.

That's all I think of. Troy Brown is bullshit. Yeah, that's just who he's always been though. That's why I like Belichick. I mean, that could have been Belichick like wrote that response for him. Right. All I care about is winning. I don't care about individual accolades.

I'm upset with my team. We're going to the playoffs, right? Yeah. That's classic Belichick. And I don't think Belichick wrote that for him, right? I don't care about the roster bonus I get for the Pro Bowl. A couple of extra million. He was just happy he was playing, man.

Brown, read his biography. I have not read that. Andy, mail that to me if you have it. Yeah, I can get it to you. I don't think it was written by Troy Brown, but it kind of has a feel like it was. I know he had a hand in it. It's got some interesting stuff in it. I would hope he had a hand in it.

It was very well, I think it was like ghost written for him, you know? Yeah. It still sounds like Troy Brown is what I'm saying. It's a good book. Oh, Greg, I have a stat check note. What, like, who was the last coach or what other coaches were traded for a pick? Because the commentators are talking about how Belichick was traded for a pick. He was.

Dr. Rivers. Gruden's the obvious answer, right? Gruden. Who we'll see next week. But has it been anybody since then? Not like a member. Dr. Rivers. Was he?

Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of any half the top of my head. Tony Dungey. Really? Yeah. Oh, wait, no, that's the Gruden one. Wait.

Yeah. Oh, here we go. Because they're like, yeah. He's been swapped. And that's a group involved. Herm Edwards, apparently. What? Who paid a pick for Herm?

So knowing Kansas City was interested in hiring him to succeed the retiring tick for meal, he attempted to strong arm the jets into a contract extension and include a raise. His move didn't work. The two teams eventually settled on a deal in which Kansas City sent the jets a fourth. A fourth pick. It was a fourth pick or fourth round pick in exchange to release Edwards from his contract. Mike Holmgren from the Packers to Seahawks. Eight year contract value at $4 million a year in total control over football operations.

Lured Holmgren to Seattle in 99. Holmgren was not only coach, but also executive vice president of football operations and general manager. The Packers received the Seahawks second round pick, 47th overall in the 99 draft. And Bill Parcells. Yeah. Yeah, he. So Holmgren was pre Belichick, but post Parcells? No.

Holmgren. It was Holmgren was 99. And Parcells was right around then, right? Seven. Yeah. So this is good. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

Oh yeah. So he just named Bill Belichick, Parcell subsistence head coach and signed Parcells as a consultant. The Patriots balked in NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue worked a deal. The Patriots, the Jets third and fourth round picks in 97, a second round pick in 98 and a first round in 99. On top of that, the Jets also donated $300,000 to a Patriots charity in exchange for New England releasing Parcells. So for Parcells, we got a first, a second, a third and a fourth. Yes. Wow.

And $300,000 donated to a Patriots charity. And Belichick was just a first rounder, right? Belichick was, I believe so. Here we go. The Patriots were awarded, wait, what? Patriots were awarded the Jets fifth round pick in 2001 and seventh round pick in 2002. That doesn't make sense. Oh, okay.

No, here we go. NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue awarded the Jets the Patriots first round pick in 2000 and fourth and seventh round pick in 2001. And the Patriots got the Jets fifth round pick in 01 and seventh round pick in 02. Yes. So some late picks. Yeah. And a first. It's just like you don't see coaches being traded.

It does not happen often. 15 years. It's basically those five. Yeah. And two of those same guys going back and forth between the Patriots. Belichick, Parcells, Holmgren, all within four years. Yeah. Keep it taken.

So maybe that was the coach trading era of the NFL. I wonder if that'll ever come back. Probably not. I think it was harder to find a franchise QB or a franchise coach. Good question. I guess that goes back to question. Would you rather start a team with Belichick or Brady? Well, at this point, I think it's somewhat obvious, right?

Brady has a couple of years left. Belichick has however long he wants. I'm at like from the beginning 2001. I probably want the coach, I would think. Let me just look at what's his name from the Chiefs. Andy Reed. Yeah. Like he's, he's.

He's been able to do it. Yeah. He's elevated any team he's been on. Yeah. I think you can say the same with Bill Parcells too. Parcells would always create playoff teams. He was never quite as successful without Belichick, but he was still, he took the Cowboys to the playoffs, right?

Same with the Jets took them to the playoffs. Yeah. So. I don't know. All right. Got anything else you want to talk about in this game or you want to do best and worst? Let me review my notes. Did you see Chris Slade out there?

Yes. I didn't actually see him out there, but he was on the list of players on this team. They called them out a little bit. Did they? Oh, I missed it. This was his, this was his kind of swollen song after how many years of Patriots. This is his last season in the NFL. He was actually third on the team with two and a half sacks though.

This is the only season without, not on the Patriots. I did have a note that like Brady had 17 TDs, 10 INTs, and then froze two more in this game. So the end of the year with what 17 and 12, and that's his pro bowl. Yeah. Which is crazy. I mean, today to think about like, oh yeah, he's got 17 TDs and 12 INTs. It's like, that's not even a replacement level.

I mean, it was a different. He did throw a touchdown. He threw one to Wiggins. Because like Wiggins like fell down. He got it in the fourth row. Yeah, he did. Yeah, you know, you're right. Which I have a note on here.

It's probably important like Wiggins had a couple catches in this game. And then you'll have a huge catch against the Raiders. Spoiler. Maybe this game. Or will he? Find out next week. So, so you're right. He threw 18 touchdowns this season.

Did anybody know, here's a quiz for you. How many did he throw in the playoffs this in 2001? Touchdowns? Yeah. Because this surprised me. One. Oh, Greg Brown nailed it in one. Yeah.

In the Rams game. In the Super Bowl. Yeah, right before half time. Yeah. The only touchdown he threw. He ran for one against Alcantara. Brady threw one against Pittsburgh. You mean Bell?

Yeah. Which was the same one that Brady would throw in the Super Bowl. Yeah. Yeah. Corner out to Patton in the end zone. I looked into that Rae Karoo thing a little more. That we talked about with Bob. Yeah.

Yeah. Anything juicy? Well, the only thing I think of note is how he got caught and arrested. Oh boy. Yeah, we didn't touch on that. Yeah. So he, he hires the guy that shoots his eight month pregnant

wife or girlfriend, right? She does. She didn't die immediately. She like went into a coma and when they like a random or whatever, he paid the bail like a $3 million bail. So he got out. Wow. And then she died after that.

So that's when he tried to like escape in the trunk of a car of a friend. They said when they arrested him, he was like, hold up in like the trunk of a car with $3,900 worth of cash, bottles to hold his own urine. This sounds familiar. Candy bars and a cell phone. Yeah.

I feel like this was actually on the news where they had like the cops that surrounded the car and they were like pulling them out of the trunk. Yeah. Where was he trying to go? Copter footage of it. California. And then you have that former boss of Nissan.

Do you hear about that guy? No. Oh yeah. He got indicted in Japan for like deflating Nissan and stuff and he like fled the country in a violin case. I'm going to throw it in the violin case. The Middle East said he's got free. He's home.

He's like, can't be extradited. That's the most Japanese thing ever. Everybody else got to be in a cello case. He's in a fucking violin case. Raker is in a goddamn car. Pissed in a bottle. He's in a goddamn Nissan probably. Oh Jesus.

Yeah. I actually remember that. The only other note I had was they were talking about the fans at the stadium. They said 40% were wearing Patriots gear. Yeah. And they heard a Let's Go Jets fan. Oh yeah.

Patriots fans. Yeah. Way to give away my worst. So yeah, I'll touch on that because we kind of almost talked about at the beginning, but this game did have playoff implications for the Patriots because they had to win this game and the Jets had to beat the Raiders for the Patriots to get the number two seed in a first round buy.

And of course our friend fucking Ron Borges decided that would be a terrible idea. And so he wrote a bunch of articles in the Boston Globe the week before saying that was probably a good idea for the Patriots to lose this game so that they would play wildcard weekend. What? Playing three games would be better than whoever they would face and all this extra time off would be.

That's retarded. That's Ron Borges. Yeah. Typical Ron Bog. And the best thing was the day after the game, he had to do another article that basically said that all the players would prefer the extra week off. Yeah.

It had to walk back literally everything he said. Well, when they opened the game, they had a graphic cup and it was like Patriots are the number two seed. I mean, there was a bunch of people like 10 and five or whatever. Yeah. And I was like, because I don't see the scores before I watch the games. Yeah.

Because I like to be surprised, I guess. All right. And I was like, man, how do we go from like number two to playing a wildcard weekend and then like halfway through the, you know, second quarter, like, oh, yeah, the Jets, the Jets can be Oakland today. Then the Patriots get a buy and I was like, fucking Jets. Anyways, I would root for the Jets to lose and play on Wildcard

weekend. If Ron Borges wrote that column said, you know what? We should play on Wildcard weekend because the Jets and fuck Curtis Martin. I would be like, yes. That's what it should have been. Everybody at that stadium who was chanting, let's go Jets. Fuck them.

Yeah. Steve. But this will be good. And I'm sad that Mike's not here for this one. But the Jets won it on a last second field goal. Thanks to the, the heroic seemed like a strong word for a holder on a field goal attempt. But Tom Tupa got a bad snap, but still managed to pull it up and

set it up for the fuck's their kick out. John Hall to kick the game ring field goal. So the Jets won 24-22 right at the end of the game. Yeah. So Tom Tupa is the reason the Patriots dynasty began. That's fine. I mean, they gave us the Raiders game, which is awesome. And we'll talk about that next week.

All ends well, but fuck the Jets. I'll give you my best. All right. Best of words. Get right into it. Come on. So they, uh, the commentators were like Brady had a hard count and it was like third and six or something like that.

Right. And he gets a hard count and gets a offsides and they're like, Oh yeah, you know, Brady's hard count is part of his arsenal. And like literally while they're talking about how this, this hard count is part of his arsenal, Brady busts out the quarterback sneak. I don't know if I don't, I can't remember. Brady QB sneak like that during the season.

Nothing, nothing stuck out on the quick, not unlike the, yeah, just like the, the hurry up, get to the line and do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, that's, that's his like number one arsenal. Yeah. Nothing to be fair, Steve, neither you nor I have watched any of

the games this year. So we could watch them. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it may have came up once, but it may have been one of the games that you guys were not just me and Mike, maybe like the fucking early dolphins game, but yeah, no, they, they were, it hadn't happened often, if at all.

So this, this first, yeah. The beginning of what was a legendary run of him converting on. Thousand yards doing it. One night at a time. That's great. All right. And your worst was the jet stuff.

Yeah. Fuck them. That's right. All right, Greg, what about you? All right. So my best. There was a couple, there was a couple instances where they, they put in the, you know, like the in-game highlight package

where they give you the update around the league. No, you might be stealing my best. Yeah. Well, there was two. Okay. I'll leave the one I think you're going to go with. No, no, you can do it both. Okay.

Well, the first one was a Chris Fumato mafala. Sighting. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to talk about him next week. I think, but yeah. They said enough said. Chris Ferriman.

He's one bad mafala. I like that pronunciation on the first go too. Dude. I thought a lot about that man's name in my life. Oh my God. He's, he's one of the best. Yeah. Yeah.

Mato mafala. Yeah. Up there with Tim, Bianca, and, um, Oh, Manawa, newie.

Yeah. I got both first try. How about that? So the other one was the one I think you were thinking of was yeah, Keith, the tractor trailer. Intercept.

Intercept your return. And running it like probably 60 yards. Wait, did he do the beaches? Cause I saw that and I was like, I feel like I'm seeing that play with him in a different Jersey. Well, maybe I'm just remembering that.

No, I think it was the Ted Washington when you're remembering. Oh yeah. Wasn't that Ted Washington? Yeah. The 31 nothing game. Yeah. I think so.

Yeah. But no, because I mean, we've seen other nose tackles return the fumbles or, or interceptions. Like we've seen Vince Wolf or do it a couple of times. And it's always awesome. But I've never seen anybody move as slow as Keith.

Well, and the best part is he gets like 40 yards in. Yeah. And he starts looking around for someone to pitch the ball to cause he could tell he was just so beat. Somebody take this thing. And he couldn't find everybody. So at the end,

he just kind of fell over. Nobody tackled him. He just kind of like went down in the heap at the five yard. Like you're still done. Fat man touchdowns or fat man returns are the best. Oh, there's so we're like the referee was out running them and like having to like just jog.

To slow down a bit. I just looked it up. He has a, another 62 yard return. That was 67. Wow. 62 and 97. Did he score?

Nope. He hasn't scored touchdown. I bet he didn't. He just runs out of juice. And I will say, when Will Fork does it, he actually looks like athletic about it. Well,

Wolf, we'll talk about it. Got it. Other hand, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it.

We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. Got it. Other hand. Yeah. He's, he's thrown a stiff arm at one,

on one of them. He transfers the ball from one arm to the other. Yeah. Yeah. He's holding it like an actual football player. Sort of like a loaf of bread. I mean, the all time worst is Leon let.

Yeah. He put Shane to the fat man name. Yeah. He did. He did. Yeah. Don BB. Yep.

Nice deep dive. I like that. Yeah. I hadn't really thought of it. The only other note I had in here was, is when they, I guess I could spin into a worst is when the, they were talking about Brady and like they had,

you know, they have the meetings the night before. Yeah. And, and they said that he was wearing baggy blue jeans and it was hanging barely on his fanny. Sign of the times. Yeah.

And the backwards baseball cap. Yeah. He was barely on his fanny to tell you the kids these days. That's a pretty good one. All right. I'll give you that. All right. Let's see what's,

what's my best here? I got a lot of worse this game. This was a sloppy game. Oh, so sloppy. One of my best was the infographics they put up, just the title of one of them was panthers or pussycats. It was just showing how they ranked last in like everything and second to last and everything else.

That's a week 17. Yeah. Yeah. It's a week 17 graphic. We're like, no one's watching this game. Right. We can go with the pussycats graph. Jokes on them is 2020.

We're watching it. It was so good. Um, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jokes on them is 2020.

We're watching it. It was so good. Um, let's see. I feel like. Yeah. That's probably as best as it's going to get. First stuff we haven't talked about.

Um, I think the worst was basically. All of garbage time at the end of this game. There was, uh, Patriots fourth, so this is how the fourth quarter went. Brady tried to hit patent deep on a,

on third down up like, I don't know, two touchdowns already. Um, they're up 24, six, and they just like going deep just for the hell of it. And so they punt.

Uh, the next play, Winky fumbles a snap, the pass recover, and Brady scores a touchdown. And then, Otis Smith finally gets his pick six, this is still in the fourth quarter. And then at the end,

like the Panthers is still kind of trying to, trying to go for it, but, um, it's like fourth and really long. Uh, the pass jump off sides on the fourth down play. And Winky drops back all,

he's got a free play, drops back and gets blindsided, drops the football and it literally just like sits there. Like nobody goes to recover it because like, it doesn't fucking matter. It's a free play anyway. So like, eventually one of the Patriots players jumps on it and,

uh, and so, and this is all in the play that was just like, it doesn't fucking count. And then, so the, the Panthers get a, a do over.

Now it's like fourth and two instead of fourth and seven. That was a, that was a foreshadowing for Cam Newton and the Super Bowl. Yeah. It's Panther style. No, I don't want to, I don't want to pick that up. It was.

Yeah. Winky was just like, watching the ball is like, I'm good. Um, and then so they have fourth and two, which they could have converted, but, and then Winky goes and almost throws yet another inception to Otis Smith.

And I was basically how the game ended and it was just like running at the clock. Yeah. It was just like, such a shit show. They had their chance. I'm telling you, because they're running back,

it was gashing us. It was awful. It was an idea. He's committed a bunch of dumb penalties and Winky was just, could not stop throw picks. Uh, a couple other honorable mentions for worse. Um,

Steve Smith fumble on the kick return was his eighth fumble on kick returns that season. Yeah. I had that note. Eighth and he still made the, the probe. Yeah. Different game back then. Um,

and then on the opening kickoff, Patrick pass returned it. Um, Yeah. Tackled as he was going out of bounds and hit the, the plastic tarp and slid so far that he hit the, the benches and injured himself. Did he is jacked up the whole game?

Like he kept playing, but tell his shoulders fucked up from like hitting that bench. Yeah. Cause he made a couple of tackles on Steve Smith on kick returns, but yeah. He was all like, Yeah. He would come limping off every time.

No one read you. Start with that. Was that fucking play in the Super Bowl or in the Super Dome? Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah. Kind of remind me of that. Yeah.

He did. He sued Super Dome. There was something. Yeah. There might have been the Rams old stadium. Yeah. It was one of those domes. Oh,

and I have one more cement on the outside. Yeah. And then he hit the, the actual like stadium wall. And that's what he slid on. Yeah. Tourist. Yeah.

When he did that, I was like, that looked like Reggie Bush. Cause like, Yes. And then like, all of a sudden there's a bunch of shit. Yeah. There's no way to stop.

He literally was like slid on his stomach. Yeah. Like five, 10 yards at full speed into the, the footing of the, the, the benches that they have on the sidelines. But I had one more trivia note that I thought was pretty cool

on Winky's second interception, the one to Oda Smith that got called back. That was tipped. The receiver that tipped, it was Donald Hayes who the year after would actually be playing for the Patriots and catching touchdowns for them. Wasn't he a Dolphins guy? No.

No. Donald Hayes was with the Panthers for one, two, three, four years. This was the last year of the Panthers. And then you're thinking to Donald driver, Steve. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Probably true. Packers and for the paths and O2. One of the, of those one hit wonders that would be on Tom Brady's list of 77 different receivers. So many of them. Oh, I have one note before we wrap it up. Give it to me.

The end of the second half. Yeah. When they had the Hail Mary chance that Panthers did. Yeah. And the first half. Yeah. The first half and the Patriots rushed one player. Someone blit like literally they rushed one.

They did. And then one of the linebackers blitzed like literally the other four guys like now it's off the end. Yeah. Eventually. And he forced a fumble. And the commentators. Even better than that.

Is that a fumble? Like now it's a tuck rule. Yes. It was the tuck rule. Yeah. And it came into effect yet again. This is the second time we've seen it this season because it came into effect.

In the first Jets game too. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone remembers. I mean, you can always put into that first Jets game and be like, Oh, well, yeah, this is where it happened that once. I like anyone's right thought of this. Yeah.

But that was really the play that ended the first half was. Yep. It was clearly a fumble. It was a clear fumble. It was actually a very similar kind of hit to that. Almost exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

He was pulling the ball down and got hit and it came. Got hit from his right side from a guy blitzing like free. Yep. End of the wall. So you're saying that the tuck in the Patriots game, the Raiders game was a fumble too then. No, because it wasn't because they were both called on the field. You just said that this one's clearly a fumble.

Well, in today's game, yes, it is clearly a fumble. Oh, is it though? Did you change the tuck rule? Even the commentators are talking about tuck rule. Oh, interesting. They even called the tuck rule. If you'd watch the game, Greg, you'd know. I did not see that part.

I hope. I'll watch more than usual. Yep. I'll give you credit for that. All right. Anything else anybody wanted to touch on here? I think that's all my notes. Yep.

Four shadow in next week Raiders. One of my favorite games of all time. Yeah. I think you're not alone in that. The snowball. The snowball. That's right. We will see you.

We will see you. Next week. For a playoff edition of the pages. Dynasty podcast. Thanks for listening. I'm dreaming. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.