Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2002 Week 7: Bye Week

Episode Date: August 4, 2020

Since week 7 is the Patriots bye week, we're doing a bye week of our own! In this bye week we look into the rivalry between the Patriots and the New York Jets throughout the years. But before that, we're joined by a very special guest:(1:00) Tucker Boynton from the Stats Over Storylines podcast joins us(28:30) Jets deep dive: Curtis Martin, Tom Tupa and moreOther notes:Patriots Jets rivalry Wikipedia page.Curtis Martin's HOF speech.Want to read the Globe article about the Brown family? Here it is.And finally, a big shout out to our fans who have left reviews. We love the feedback!Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown, and while I have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny, but really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. Welcome back to the Patrons' Dianasy podcast, week seven, which we are actually recording after week eight, because that's how we roll, but you'll hear it in order. If we say something that you don't hear until next week, blame Greg. Dude, we're also recording 20 years after week eight, so I don't think it really matters.

That's true. We're not sparring anybody, are we? Except maybe Steve. That's okay. Yes. This is the page's bi-week. It's week seven of the 2002 season. Like we did last season, we're doing our own bi-week episode. We're going to do a deep dive into the Pat's Jets rivalry, if you can call it that, even though it hasn't. Before we get to that, we actually have a special guest on with us today. I'd like to welcome everybody or welcome all three of the listeners. I'd like to introduce everybody, my friend Tucker Boynton, from all sorts of things,

but most recently, the Stats Over Storylines podcast. How are you doing, Tucker? Good. How are you? Thanks for having me on. Yeah, absolutely. Usually, the only guests we've had on have been non-Patriot fans, weirdly for Patriots Dynasty podcast. It's actually nice to have a Boston sports fan on for once. I just want to get started. How did you get to the point in your sports fandom and Patriots fandom that you're doing podcasts of games that happened back in the 2000s? Well, I've actually only been on Twitter about probably, it'll be two years, coming up on two years. I haven't been on Twitter that long, but I started doing stats on Twitter

for Boston sports, not just the Patriots, but as you mentioned, I'm a Boston sports fan and I wanted to find a way to sort of communicate my fandom in a way that I thought was unique and would be valuable beyond just sort of opinion. And so that's how I got into sort of the numbers game and doing all that fun stuff. But yeah, that's really my passion, the statistics side of things, telling stories with numbers. And yeah, I mean, you guys reached out to me and I'm more than willing to. I'm honored that you wanted to have me on to discuss all these games from early Patriots history, which are obviously, it's fun to look back on at this point in the quote unquote dynasty, given that there's a lot of time for retrospections.

So yeah, yeah, a lot of time of no sports right now. We kind of started this right before all this happened. There's no actual sports to be watching right now. So why not watch Patriots losing to the dolphins in 2002, right, boys? Wait, they lost? You watched the game. Greg doesn't. That's true. I just tried to purge it from my memory is so bad. I would also like to point out to my other brothers that it's not just me. Who makes it nerd ship and Patriots in sports? There are at least two of us.

I got to say, though, I've listened to the podcast. It's pretty good because the one thing that's always driven me crazy about like, especially like Boston Sports Talk Radio is it's the exact opposite, right? It's storylines over sports where it's just like, you hear Felgar and Maz get like one thing in there, one being their bonnet and they just like drive it into the ground all day. And you're just like, come on, man. Like, can we look at this at a different aspect? So I really appreciate this kind of unique perspective on stuff. I'm glad that was actually like a frustration of ours. I'm doing it with John Germain who runs

Boston Sports Inf who's been on Twitter a whole lot longer than I have. But that was a joint frustration of ours that there's so much opinion and focus on, you know, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And right now it's just it's just really cool time and in sports journalism where there's this growing process, growing sort of presence of journaletics and like data backed commentary that hasn't been there forever. When you have like the 538 and the PFS and the all of all these, even, you know, the athletic is adding data scientists and you're getting sort of a more in depth look as opposed to the typical sort of, you know, the old sports media is like beat writers going and sitting in these stuffy rooms and eating crappy food so they

can write about the game. And that that seems to be sort of going out of style in favor because maybe because the viewing experience is just as good at home as it is to read in the paper. It's not that aspect is no longer as necessary. And so as you go deeper and try to, I guess, create commentary as a member of the media that's interesting and compelling, people have been forced to look for other avenues besides sort of just the opinion making. Yeah. And I think at least growing up, we would use the newspaper because there wasn't any any other way to get it. There was no internet. You couldn't watch highlights, you know, if you missed the game, you missed the game, you know, and you had to read about it. So

that was much more, I think, invaluable, at least to us growing up, like getting the Boston Globe out and reading the sports section the day after the day before with all the like the matchup page and all that shit. Yeah, I think you're right that that feels like there's an over saturation of that now where everybody is trying to to post their opinions of what just happened or what's about to happen or, you know, like the mock drafts will start now for next year sort of thing. And it's like, well, it comes with the accessibility of the internet, right? Like the idea of these social media channels like Twitter, where everybody's voice is amplified, most part exactly the same, right? Nobody's given a platform above anybody else. And so even with podcasting, it's really,

there's no shortage of opportunity for people to come in and make their opinions heard, which is great for a lot of people, but it also oversaturates people and sort of, you know, how much they can take. I think people have a certain bandwidth for, like, content. Yeah, especially when that content is opinion, I think. All right, I have a test case for you, because I have a theory that you can find a statistic to prove anything. Oh, God, here we go. And Greg on here, Steve, the one who knows numbers the least. Wait, do you mean you as in like one can find a statistic? Yeah. And I want to see if there's any statistics to support Greg's hottest take of all time.

Oh, all right. I don't remember what this is, but let's go. Is it that Aaron Glenn should be in the Hall of Fame? No, no, that was Mike's hot take. It does involve an Aaron, though. Oh, yeah, that was my worst take of all time. And your most fire take. He said, at some point, and Greg, you can put the date on this that you thought Aaron Hernandez was going to be better than Gronk. I was so positive about it, too. I don't think I don't think that's so off base. Like, could you get like an average eight yards per attempt and then like created by Wiggles in the left side of the receiver? I think I think actually at the beginning of the Gronk Hernandez two tight end sets, like in 2010, 2011, that Aaron Hernandez was arguably a better receiver

than Gronk was. Gronk was a more complete player from the beginning. But yeah, Jesus, Aaron Hernandez was more of a danger with the ball in his hands because you'd see him lining up in the backfield, taking handoffs and stuff just so they could get in the ball. And to be fair, Gronk never, he never looked apart. Even when he was putting up crazy numbers, he was like alligator arm catching everything. And you're just like, it doesn't make sense, like visually, but it works. So yeah, that's been my whole style of quote unquote, athleticism throughout the years is awkward yet. I don't even try to say bucket. It's awkward. It's just awkward. Yeah. But yeah, well, Tucker, how much do you hate Twitter?

If you're two years in, you're looking at the worst two years of Twitter. Yeah, I hate Twitter a lot. I learned pretty early on the lack of redeeming qualities and the fact that if you engage with anyone about anything, it's probably not going to end well. And so I just try to keep my like hands clean and not mess with anybody because I do get a good amount of blowback on some posts that I make from opposing fans and that sort of thing. People who disagree and disagree with numbers. Well, that's my point. But I actually, yeah, I mean, well, well, whatever, but they'll take, they'll extrapolate something I'm saying and, you know, be upset. But I don't really venture into the mud. I don't really like to spar with anybody. I like

to keep it, keep it clean, but that's just my style. So. Oh, God. So do you have any patronage-related stats that are your favorites that you've come across? Oh, that's a tough question. What about the rest of your favorite stats? I got a good one I heard the other day. They were talking about Mahomes, like, contract they just got. It's like, you know, 10 years could be up 500 million, right? That's only half a billion, no big deal. Yeah. And someone was like, yeah. So like, picture this, Mahomes, like, plays out the life, the life of the contract, wins two more Super Bowls, wins an MVP or two, throw it in there is Pro Bowl, like eight times.

And then he's made it halfway through Brady's career. And he's got to do it again. What I saw was if Mahomes finishes out this contract going 16 and 0 every year of the next 12 years of it, he would still be like 30 games behind 31. I posted that one. Three wins behind Brady, but yeah. He's a plug, Andy. Whatever it was. All right. My favorite, my favorite Patriots-related stat, I guess, off the top of my head right now, I would say is the fact that Brady targeting Gronk, he has more inside the 25-yard line,

he has more touchdowns than he does in 74 touchdowns, 71 incompletions, which is just nuts. That made, I sent this one to you guys. Patriots 423 straight starts by homegrown quarterbacks is nearly double the next closest in Super Bowl era. That's ridiculous. Who's the last person to start that wasn't homegrown? If someone like the 70s. Scott Seacuels, I believe it was. Yeah. Say that again. Scott Seacuels. Never heard of him. Back in like the 90s, it was a, I think it was a record time of the-

In 92, I think. Like when Zolak was, was that that era anyway? Yeah. I remember him from Unnecessary Roughness, the video games. That was 95. Unnecessary Roughness, 95. That's what we used to play. That was one of them. Yeah. I think we played 93 through 95. Jesus. So my favorite stat that I had in my pocket that Brady has now ruined by going to the Buccaneers. Selfish. Well, you're about to hear how selfish it is.

Ruin my career as a stat guy. The Buccaneers, their total win count since their inception in 1976 was 276 games. Tom Brady's total win count since 2000 when he started was 249. So he theoretically in two years, if the Bucs had been bad and he had been good, could have caught them if you played anywhere except Tampa. But now that'll win it. Yeah. He could get anywhere else. You're right.

How do you, how do you feel about that? Season. I don't know. I mean, like, I'm a sports fan and I like feel the things hard, but I never was like super disappointed that Brady left. Like, really? Maybe that's because I just saw it as like an inevitable thing if the season ended. But I don't begrudge him for going elsewhere and I don't begrudge the Patriots for moving on. Like, I think all things considered, it's a pretty amicable breakup.

Like, you look at how things have ended for the other like all-time grades and when the teams wanted to move on from them. Like, it's been ugly for pretty much everyone. And this has, I don't think is as ugly as the Boston media would like you to believe because it's fun to believe that. Yeah. And there's nothing else to talk about. Right. And I think like the Boston media was a large reason why last season was miserable. It didn't have to be miserable.

And like, Patriots had an historic defense. And I think a lot of people overlook that. We talk on the Stats Over Storylines podcast a lot about how analysis that stops at like, well, did he, she, they, the team win a ring or not? Yeah. It's so shallow. And that like the 1986 Bears defense was actually better than the 85 Bears defense. Yeah.

And Super Bowl, just for example, or, you know, the 70-71 Bruins were probably better than the 69-70 Bruins who won the cup. But like, we all have such a shallow short-term memory and it's like a pass-fail situation. That goes back to the things I say about Wes Welker and like him being an all-time receiver. But nobody remembers anything but the drop in the Super Bowl or the alleged drop. Like, was it even a drop? Like, who cares? It's one play.

It was a drop. It was a drop. I guard less, I guess, to get back to the point. Yeah, I just think, I think like, it's easy to get caught up in all the stories, but the numbers last year were still impressive. I mean, the offense wasn't great, but I wasn't so let down that he moved on. I think it's kind of funny that he went to the Bucks, like the Bucks, but again, it's all part of this sort of life cycle of players in the league and things turning over

in the pendulum swing in the other way. It feels like he's slummin' it to me. Tampa slummin' it. Tampa of all places. He's been to San Diego. Yeah, that uniform. I don't know. It just, it doesn't, you know, like the Patriots one feels like classic.

If you went to like the Packers, you'd be like, oh, a classic uniform, but that just looks like something they, like Oregon would wear, you know? It was cool in the nineties, right? Yeah. So a funny story about the Welker thing. I was in college for that Super Bowl, and I got wicked, wicked drunk watching that game. And like, I woke up the next morning and Kelly, my wife was like, when we were going to bed, you were just like lying in bed going, why did Welker drop it?

So, I, I just like, I just like, I don't know. I have a tough time as, as like a stats and data guy, like, like small sample sizes in whatever it is, like just irk me in terms of like making an overall judgment about a player. Like good or bad, you know? Like there's nobody, like the Peyton Manning being a choker argument. It's like, what are we doing? Like I just think like you, you talk about like a couple of games, a couple of throws, and you look at the percentage of the career that that makes up.

Of course it means more and it matters more, but like to, to judge somebody based on something that represents half a percent of their career, even if it was the biggest moment. I mean, I mean, the Welker, Welker had what 700 receptions in a six year span, and that was one drop, one. So do the math. That's one seventh of a percent about, of the passes that he could have caught. And that doesn't, can you name another drop that he had? Like also have you had, can you even think of one other drop that Welker had?

Yeah. Yeah. Remember when we were talking about this the other day, that game where Brady threw like, oh yeah, two incompletions in a game and one of them was a drop by Welker. Oh, drop two passes in his career. That's right. Fucking bomb. He's a bomb.

He didn't, he doesn't drop it. Julie, the element. He almost dropped it, but then he's like, wait a minute, I'm not Welker. And he caught it just before it could hit the ground. And then he dropped it last year in the divisional rounds. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like, I don't know.

I, I just, in any sort of analysis, it's like, seems silly to, to base it off of a small sample size. It is a third, but that's how the brain works though. I don't know if it's like a sports fan thing or if it's just a human being thing where. Sure. But separating fandom from like honest analysis, like, okay, I'm not going to like, you know, say you can't be upset about that and hold those like negative feelings as like a fan, but as an, from an analysis perspective, it's like, okay, how do we judge Welker's career?

Try to remove yourself and like make an honest judgment. You shouldn't have to look at one play and say that ruined everything. Are there any Belichick stats you think he gets too much credit for? Because it can go the other way as well. Because there's a lot of folks in the negative, but I think Belichick has a assumption of positive and affecting a stat. And Greg, I think it's absolutely pure. Belichick, so.

Yeah. Greg does not. This seems like something that I'm late to. Well, here's my theory. Here's my theory is that the Belichick, like he wins three Super Bowls in four years and like basically gives himself like a buffer of being able to screw things up, right? He's definitely a good coach, but there's also a ton of really good coaches out there that didn't get that immediate success that might have got like,

they fire coaches within two years if you're not making a playoffs, right? So I'm saying Belichick hit like you want to, you want a Super Bowl in 2004, and then three years later, he only went 16 and oh, what a fucking bomb. Dude, Tucker, I'm kicking you off the podcast right now. We got a new stat check guy, Greg. Get the fuck out of here. You just write about getting replaced. Yeah.

No, I'm saying that you Belichick gets away with a lot of, especially in Boston media or Boston like Fando, but we're just like in Belichick, we trust when we don't really, we don't hold them to task for things that he screws up, when he does definitely screw things up. So what percent of decisions would you say Belichick has screwed up during his time? Like, I think that's a good question. Well, how do you quantify them as stats, man? I mean, decisions like, yeah.

Well, there are ways to quantify like the fourth downplay call on the past play to Kevin Falk in the Colts game was the correct call, analytically. I'm thinking more like personnel decisions. I mean, that's kind of where I have beef with them. Like I was, I really didn't like the Jamie Collins when they gave him a way for a bag of balls. You know, there's been other things where you're just like that defense to bend, but don't break defense. I think they could have, I think they could have been a better team

if they tried to get players that were aggressive or played an aggressive scheme. No, it's more of like a, that's such a hard thing to quantify though. Yeah. And you can say it generally, the Patriots are viewed as the best salary cap managers or one of the best and they're viewed as good drafters, if not the best. There's no weaknesses in this game. The best drafters? I don't know about that.

One of, at least middle of the bag. Well, I think they're bad. Bad, they're not the fucking Jets. Well, that's true. But we talked about this before about how the Patriots seem to draft differently because they have their own system of what they're looking for and how to value those players that they draft, which is why you see things like drafting random dudes in the second round this year.

It's also about drafting above expectation because each pick value, each pick has a value, right? If you pick late every year, you're going to have fewer opportunities to hit on big name players. And I've actually looked at this whole, I'm trying to pull it up, but... See, I'm glad we have another nerd on this podcast. I have felt that too, though. Sometimes you're like, I feel like the Patriots could have got that guy three rounds later.

Like, I don't disagree with the pick, but why are you burning the second round pick on this D1? Because they don't ever have first round picks. They're picking 32, like every other year, basically. No, but like their first pick of the draft was on a D1 in safety. I felt like, I don't know, I don't know shit, but I know every other NFL team is reading the same fucking... Except this was the first time that the Belichick has been to the senior bowl, and the guy impressed there.

So how do you know that nobody else is better than him? They could have gotten back half of the second round. Exactly. It's not about if he ends up good, you could get them later. But how do you know how the draft works is you don't know that. Let's talk about to prove us all completely wrong. Well, hey, and Bill, we trust, right? And that's what the end of the argument always is.

It's, dude, and Bill, we trust, which I don't buy that, you know? Well, you kind of have to. I don't believe that. I mean, I don't agree with that. I think you can critically analyze an argument without being like, you know, we trust. But the opposite argument could be made, too, that like people just want to say, oh, no, you know,

you pink hat Patriots fans never criticize and do that just to call other people out. But here's one thing. Well, first of all, from 2000 to 2019, the Patriots have drafted the second most like cumulative approximate value. So 20 years, 20, 20 drafts there, second only to the Green Bay Packers.

And that's they've struggled in recent drafts for a couple of them, but then there's still picks that are waiting to pan out. And then if you adjust for expectation, you get a similar result basically where they've overachieved relative to what the average team does picking in those spots. So there could be, there's definitely criticism to be levied, especially in recent years.

He hasn't had great drafts in recent years. He also had a couple of picks taken away. But no, I don't think he's infallible, but I also think like the idea that he's supposed to draft just like, you know, the Jags draft because Jags have a top 12 pick every year. It's like wearing apples to oranges. You know what I'm saying?

And you can't debate the fact the extra draft capital they've created through trading. That's pretty undeniable. Yeah, the compensatory picks feel like every year they have like four. Leasing people for picks, you know? The pick we had Gerard Mayowith was like, we traded our first for our first next year,

fifth overall, something like that. And we traded back and picked up Mayow and 10th overall. And they were doing that sort of stuff even all the way back to the Richard Seymour days where they traded him the Raiders for the first round pick two years later, which was when the the slotted salary was going to be for that first round.

So they wouldn't have to pay them, like Jamarcus Russell money. Yeah. And so just those sorts of things. Even Brandon Cooks is a more recent example, right? They traded their first for him and then traded him again for another first that was even earlier.

So they got a season out of Cooks didn't have to pay him and improve their draft slot. All right, guys. Well, I'd love to stay in chat. I got to go eat dinner. But I appreciate you guys having me on. I love talking about this stuff. So thanks for having me on.

I'm flattered that you wanted to have my opinion on this. And good luck talking about 2002. One question before you go wherever. One more question before you go. Who's your favorite patriot of all time? Who's my favorite patriot of all time? Who do I think is the best patriot? No, your favorite.

Your favorite doesn't have to be numbers thing. Just your favorite guy. This is a tough question. I don't know how you stump a nerd, boys. To be honest, I'd probably go with wrong. Just because wrong. I would destroy brown to get out of here. Go eat.

I just love watching him play. He's so fun to watch. I'd probably go with wrong. That's fair. And I love players who have mind boggling numbers. And wrong. It's outrageous. Actually, in terms of NFL players,

one of my favorite players of all time is Randy Moss, although his stint with the Patriots was really short. Some of his numbers are incredible, being thrown to by Dante Culpepper. Yeah. And who was it after him? It was some known German fuck. He had a lot of crappy quarterbacks.

He actually has like four different quarterbacks who have thrown a thousand-yard season to him. That's right. Was that you the post that said? Yeah. And then like Matt Castle was like 973, too. Yeah. Brady came in after throwing like a 20, 28-yard slant.

And then like they brought Castle and he didn't quite get 2000. But anyways, yeah, I'd go with Moss or Brady. Sorry. Moss or Gronk, because I just love watching them play. But yeah. Good answer. We'll take it.

All right. Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. Thanks, Tucker. Good luck with the podcast. Thanks, Tucker. See you, bud. Go check out stats over storylines if you get a chance.

Yeah, check it out. It is a good listen. Yeah. Yeah. We all appreciate that. I like your co-host, too. You guys got a good dynamic going. Well, you got a good rapport.

Yeah. Yeah, we have a man, too. It's actually Greg, who's the youngest brother here. He's a technology like an old man. Can I ask one question before I go? Yeah, sure. Why do you only have half your beard, Greg? Yeah, Greg, why?

You know, that is a very good question. Well, we knew there was a stats guy coming on. So I wanted to do a numbers based. No, it's a zero. It's actually an art exhibit about the duality of man, that we all have some form of good and evil within us. And in today's age, I think everything, you know, we're talking about Twitter being black and white.

Everybody has some form of either side. So which side's the good side? You tell me. That's hard. Long way. I am the beholder. All right. Well, good luck recording the rest of your podcast.

Thanks for having me on. All right. Thanks, Tucker. Thank you. Thank you. See you. Bye-bye. Thanks, man.

God damn, Greg. Your answer that gets longer every time. I love it. Yeah. The first really long way of saying I don't know, I'm just doing it because I'm an idiot. I think it's funny. Oh, God, that's fucking hideous.

I love it. I personally love it. I bet you do. I care for Ellie to see it this weekend. She's going to love it too. All right. Should we get into the Jets shit? Yeah.

So on the Jets. Yeah. So I kind of put this together for you, Steve, because I know that you have some feelings about the Jets that you kind of let boil to the surface a little bit when we talk about them in game recaps. But I wanted to explore the full, unadulterated, what was the word we use the other week, enmity.

Your uncapped hatred. Unbridled. Yes. There you go. Of the Jets. Of the New York football Jets. Well, I've I've said it many times in this podcast about how much I hate Curtis Martin and how much of a backstabber he is.

Correct. I am here to officially retract that statement. Excuse me. Yes. I did a bunch of research on Curtis Martin and I am retracting that statement and issuing a new one in its place. I hate Bill Parcells. Steve, you're a it takes a big man.

They don't know that they were on. And I'm very proud of you. Let me tell you what I found. I'm listening. Let's hear it. I have a quote from Curtis Martin. I wasn't the biggest football fan to begin with. But if I was going to play, I didn't want to play for what in my mind

was the worst team ever. I look at the Jets as the bottom of the barrel. Oh, shit. Starting off, he hates the Jets like I do. When did he say that? This is like after he played for the Jets. He's recapping his move to them in his seven years. The Jets only suffered one losing year.

So he actually made him fucking good. Yep. Yeah, he was a monster. I mean, obviously he's awesome, right? AFC leading rusher as a rookie. I think I think it may have been a Tucker stab. I don't remember. But he saw it online today yesterday that it was the Patriots

leaders in rushing touchdowns. And Curtis Martin was on that list. I'll believe it. In top three years at the Pats. Yeah, even three years at the Pats. Ridiculous. He won the NFL rushing title by one yard. Damn.

What? Do you want to guess who he beat? What year? What year? I don't have the year, but it's probably... That helps. Early 2000. 2000, yeah.

2004, maybe. L.T. Now. Free Psalms. Yeah. Jamal Lewis. No. Hamon Green.

Seattle Seahawks. Sean Alexander. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One yard. Dude, all those dudes are all the same guy to me. Hamon Green, Sean Alexander.

Although, remember when we were talking about Larry Johnson? Yeah. Did they? Have you seen what his deal is now? No. No. Oh. Oh, he's completely out to lunch now.

Was he the one defending Deshaun Jackson? Yeah. Well, he's been spouting his own stuff for apparently years. Yeah. But he's all about like, you know, I don't even want a second. I don't know. You know, it's like he's...

Google it. You're listening. You're interested to Google it. Just not on your work computer from the start. Yeah. The Jewish cabal taking over the world. And yeah. All those deep-stakes slaving.

Oh, yeah. Deep-stakes. Yeah. Yeah. George Soles. Funny. After, you know, we did our last bi-week episode on a Jonathan Martin bullying thing where you read all those texts, Greg.

Yeah, that hasn't come out yet. But cool. It hasn't come out yet. Well, look forward to that. Yeah. Definitely listen to that one. That was ridiculous. So the NFL created the Miami Dolphins, I guess,

made a five-man committee to develop a conduct code. They picked Curtis Martin for it. To lead the committee? After that, yeah. That seems to make sense. Yeah, he was always a pretty bizarre guy, right? Yeah. He had a crazy childhood.

He found his grandma stabbed to death by a man who said he needed the money to pay his phone bill. Found her with a knife in her, like, chest. He's a little kid. His dad left when he was like five. He smoked a punch of crack cocaine. Who did that? Heather, you did. His dad.

Okay. And then when he got that money from the jets, he used it to buy his dad a condo and a car and found him on the street and took him to the new condo and then put his dad through rehab. Wow, which was crazy. And his dad was super abusive to his mom, too. Like, obviously, he loves his mom and all that. Right.

His hall of fame speech was ridiculous. He goes into some ridiculously graphic detail. Like, the abuse he saw his dad give to his mom. What? Yeah, it's an insane hall of fame speech. That's intense. He says the guy had a gun to his head and pulled the trigger seven times and the bullet didn't come out. This is like Terry Glenship.

Dude, that's what I'm saying. We're over two on people we hate on this podcast. Yeah, I no longer hate either of these guys. I know. I kind of respect him more than a normal player now. But he was when he was in the league and probably still has this hit. He created his own foundation, the job foundation that he funds himself with over a million dollars because he doesn't want people telling him what to do with the money

but isn't it? Fuck yeah. That's all right. Yeah, we're officially Curtis Martin podcast. Yeah. So it's really hard to stand on my I hate Curtis Martin. So Fox when I still remember his first ever carry as a New England patriot went for like 20 yards and I thought 30 yarders on his first touch.

Yeah. Yeah. This guy's special. I want to I want to can we all go around here and formally apologize to Curtis Martin? Yes. I call him the C word on one podcast. Did you? I think we call them Judas.

And yeah, honestly, I want to formally apologize. Yeah. Sorry, Curtis. Full apology to Curtis Martin. But let's, you know, everyone's human. He has mistakes. I have a quote here from the duality of man. Like Greg Beard.

Mm hmm. Told you. From Chad Pennington. Oh, talking about he wonders that if the trade for Tim Divo could be the thing that pushes Mark Sanchez to another level. So it's not like the man is like perfect in any means. Oh, this is Curtis Martin said this. Yeah.

Yeah. So he's not a great judge of talent. That's fine. Yeah. Be right. Not a scout. No. The banter was like, all right.

Well, I can't like I'm still bitter about the whole thing. Right. I'm not. So who are you going to be? Yeah, you have to you have to. I can't. I can't point those guns at something else. Right.

Yeah. I can redirect the anger. I'm not going to let go. That's human emotion. That's more like yeah. No, right. Come to terms with my anger. No.

Let's just redirect it at somebody else. And I have the perfect. I mean, if you read more into it, it's clearly Bill Parcell's fault. All right. Give it to me. So speaking of which, every time we talk about Bill Parcells from here on out, I just like to remind everybody that his name is actually Dwayne Charles Parcells. That's right.

Sorry. He goes by Bill because there was another Bill and everybody called him that and they confused them. So I just went with it because fuck it. It was easier. So Dwayne Charles Parcells. Yeah. Martin had said if it wasn't for Dwayne, he would have gone so far as to take a pay cut.

Just think about that. That was right. Well, he was willing to take a pay cut to stay in New England. Stay in New England. Yeah. And that would have been Tom Brady on the scene. It would have been Tom Brady and Curtis Martin in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005. Would it have been the same?

I think it would have been better. Yeah. I mean, Anton Smith is not. If anything, he's like close to equivalent, but I don't think anyone could argue he's better, more talented than Curtis Martin. It's not like Curtis Martin is going to like poison your locker room. And it was also, yeah, it was Anton Smith like at the end of his career too. Like how, what did he play 2001, 2002, and that was it?

And then Corey Dillon came in. Is that 2003 or 2004? But I don't think you could consider 2007. Yeah. All of this like shit that was going down late 90s, early 2000s. I mean, I think that played into Belichick coming here though, right? I think Kraft like was pissed off that they did the poison pill contract for Martin. Yeah.

Which is outlawed the following year. Right. And I think. Do you want to touch on that real quick? Yeah. If anyone, can you explain it, Andy? Yeah. I think we've tried to explain it before.

It's like it's a tough concept, but. Yeah. So basically the poison pill was a clause in the contract that stated Martin would become an unrestricted free agent after one year if the Patriots matched the offer. He was a restricted free agent, right? Yes. So the Patriots could match any offer that was given to Curtis Martin. Correct.

But if they did, if they matched this offer specifically, the contract stated that he would become an unrestricted free agent if they matched it. Right. After one year. So then they have to go through all this again. Right. And it's an unrestricted free agent. So they're worried about losing nothing.

And then they took the one and the three instead of just letting them walk. Right. And they would have forced them to pay a $3.3 million roster bonus that would have like fucked their salary cap that year too. Yeah. So basically they put an offer sheet in that basically is structured in a way with clauses in it that makes it like it sabotages the Patriots if they matched that offer sheet to keep them as a restricted free agent.

So it's very like underhanded and like legally stuff that can screw the team that's. Absolutely. Quotes from RKK about it. He says, probably one of my one regret is he got away from us. He said, that is what I call borderline attorney, you know, ambulance chaser, attorney kind of stuff. That's something where they took advantage. It was not the intent of the deal is clever lawyer stuff.

It's not in the spirit of the whole agreement was that loophole was plugged. That's not how we do business. It was unfortunate. We probably should have found a way to get assigned before that we didn't. It's one of my many mistakes. And that's fair too. Yeah. Like that's that's rough.

And the brother. Yeah. Like you said, the page got a first and a third, which one of those was Robert Edwards. So then back to our previous argument, that kind of I think maybe that is why craft goes after Belichick, right? Because he did some pretty underhanded stuff to get Belichick in New England. He did. It's a good point.

Yeah. Maybe if Kurt Martin had stayed at Belichick wouldn't come to New England. Right. Yeah. That's sweet though. I kind of miss this because whenever you get wicked mad about the jet, Steve, I'm kind of like indifferent because they just like it hasn't really been a rivalry. You know why?

Why you some time. Our quick pop quiz. When was the last time the page was lost to the Jets? Okay. I think through. No. It was not the playoffs. No.

I was at 11 that they lost in the playoffs. It was 2010 and 2011, I think. 2010. There's two years back to the Sanchez. It was not 2010. They've only played in the playoffs twice. It appears to be a man genie era. But the last regular season loss.

Like who would the coach be? Todd Bowles, maybe? I can't remember. Bowles beat 90. Let's think of like a post-Sanchi's quarterback that would have been. I got nothing. Nothing. Trying to figure out who this quarterback is.

And I'm saying I'm going to guess and say 2013. And that Gino Smith. No, no, no. 2015. It was Ryan Fitzpatrick. Of course. God, fucking Fitzpatrick. I was going to say, it's probably Fitzy,

but I don't think he's played for the Jets. But of course he has. He's played everywhere. 2015. 2015? 2015. We're on an eight game win streak. That's awesome.

Yep. And before that was 2013. Week seven in overtime. The Jets are just, they're in shambles right now. I love it. Because none of these games recently have been close. And their stadium sucks. Sucked.

Sucked. It's just middle of nowhere, like has no character is, I don't know. You remember when we were at the game, Greg? And we went to go use the Port-A-Potty at the tailgating. And you go in before me and you come out and you're like, ah, dude, Gino Smith is in there early. And I was like, what?

And I walk in and someone wrote on the wall, looking for cocks to suck. I'm pretty sure I got that photo. That's beautiful. So. Shout out to when the Brown family was in the Boston Globe. Oh, yeah. It was like a full-page article in the Boston Globe.

Where they got literally every piece of information incorrect. Yeah. It was hilarious. It was really. And just the whole experience made sense too. It's like we're tailgating outside the stadium. We're like kind of close to one of the entrances. This dude just walks up like maybe like 15 minutes before

we were about to go into the game and was just like, hey, you guys from New England? Like, yeah. He asked us like four questions, scribbles it down quickly and fucks off. And then writes like a full-page Boston Globe art. And we're like, dude, talk about mailing it in. Looking for cocks to suck.

Yeah. It's like a picture of an everything. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I wonder if we can find that article. We have to figure out when it was from. It has it on his wall. Yeah.

I still have it. Let me know the date and I'll pull it up and we'll post it in the chat. Yeah. But yeah, they like quoted our sister as having as being like 52 with a British accent, even though she was born here. Yeah. Now that was mom. So yeah.

So it hasn't been a rivalry for a long time. I like it that way. Since 2016. I miss a good rivalry. The average score of the past eight games is 30 to nine. 30 to nine. 30 to nine. It's bad.

But like this rivalry has gone on forever. And there's actually Wikipedia page on it. So I think at that point, it's legit, right? Sure. I have to imagine there's a Red Sox Yankees one as well. Oh, yep, there is. It's right there. Link to it in this page.

And so I was just kind of looking over this and there was some interesting things in there. But the reason I actually wanted to do this in the first place was we actually got some listener feedback because apparently we talked about Tom Tupa probably back in the end of last season, the regular season, like 2017, where Tom Tupa corralled a bad snap, which helped the Jets beat the Raiders in the last game of the regular season, I think, which is why the Raiders had to come to New England in the snow.

And then the snowball happened. Yada Yada. So we're like, oh, so Tom Tupa is the reason for the Page's Dynasty, right? I think. Brendan Arbergast. I apologize if I butchered that name, but I probably have. I think it's from Chicago of all places. He actually sent us a message saying that Tom Tupa was.

No, he's a Russian boy. If he's commenting on our stuff. If he's listening to this. I don't know. He's got some some personal information about you, Greg. So you may want to look out. He knows where you live. What?

No, I'm kidding. Russians, bro. You got ticked off. I gotta say, though, this is probably the best feedback we've had from. It is. Yeah. So he says Tom Tupa corralling a bad snap led to the Page's Dynasty as the Jets were able to beat the Raiders and give the Pats a fresh round by.

While that statement is true, the Jets beating the Raiders helped the Pats immensely. It is not Tom Tupa's biggest contribution to the Page's Dynasty. Thanks, Steve. We moved on. Tupa left the Pats ahead of the 1999 season and signed the largest punter contract in NFL history with the Jets. The signing led to the Pats acquiring the 199 pick in the 2000 draft as a comp pick. That pick, of course, was Tom Brady.

I was Patrick Edward Brady, Jr. Exactly. Interestingly enough, Tupa was Belichick's punter in Cleveland before Belichick brought him to New England in 1996. No shit. I didn't know that. Yeah. He was actually the first ever player in the NFL to score a two-point conversion.

I did. Because they implemented it that year, and he was the first one they did. He was the holder for the point after, and he ran it in on a fake. It's an athlete, not a punter. It's reasonable to think that Belichick, who was with the Jets in 1999, and basically signed Tupa, was a major force behind Tupa getting signed, therefore getting that draft pick for Brady. So I did a little bit of digging, and this is basically on point.

The only wrinkle is that the compensatory picks, the comp picks that you get. Yeah, it's like formula. Well, I'm looking at compensatory selection. And that wasn't where my brain was looking. Well, and it's like you say, compensation is where your brain wants to go. I mean, it compensates. Totally. So the comp picks, they're not one-to-one.

So basically in 1999, the Patriots lost linebacker, Todd Collins, punter, Tom Tupa, defensive tackle, Mark Wheeler, and offensive lineman, Dave Woolabaugh. Remember that guy? Woolabaugh. Oh, yeah. Shit. I haven't heard that name in a while.

Woolabaugh. That's her name. Her ever. So as a result, they were awarded four comp picks, 127, 199, 201, and. All right. So you can say it's Tom Tupa, but not say it's Tom Tupa. One-to-one, but he's in there. And I think this has some legs.

So Tom Tupa, again, for the second time in his career, has started the Patriots dynasty, is responsible for. We're trying to get Tom Tupa on the pod, dude. I'd love to pick his brain. And I think it's so hilarious that he won the punt pass and throw. It makes too much sense. Like he's one of the more unique players in modern football, right? To be able to play quarterback and punter.

Punter. We probably kick field goals, too. Yeah. And you go back to like, that's like a Gino Capoletti thing, you know? Whereas, yeah, these guys play in like every position, but he's probably, it's that's definitely a dying breed, right? Where they're supposed to be like the last one being so specialized nowadays. Yeah.

Can you name somebody else who's done multiple positions? The only time it happens now is if you're like, we have a really good like kick returner. We want to try and get him involved in the passing game because he's so electric. Yeah. It doesn't really happen where like they come in as a two position player. Right, exactly. Yeah.

And it's not like they're playing offense. And yeah, because Super, I wonder if you ever kicked any field goals, right? Wouldn't surprise me. I don't know. We got to get him on the pod. I'd love to talk to you. Yeah. We'll see if we can find him.

If anybody knows how to get a hold of Tom Tupa, let us know. Because we will definitely have him on. He's great. Maybe we should scout out the punt passing kick competition. Betty Zarrick, an alumni. Yeah. What's your favorite Jets game that you've ever seen? Oh, that's easy.

Patriots Jets game. The Buffalo game. That was pretty good. I mean, Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. Yeah. Actually, the night game, too. You'd already had like a pretty good buzz going on.

Yeah. You've already eaten. And that was one of two times. The Patriots scored 21 points in one minute of game clock. Oh, it's the other one. The Titan's game. Wait, let me get it. Let me get it.

Let me get it. Titan's game? No. It was a no. It might be tough. I got nothing. I'm thinking of Miami, but I don't think that's right. It was 2018 against the Chicago Bears.

I was at that game. 2018? No. In Chicago? Yeah, 2014. Excuse me. I got that drunk. Yeah.

I believe. I want to say. Want to hear a funny story from that game? Yes, of course. So I was like of the opinion that I'd never like like worked up the balls to do it. But if you wait until game day to buy tickets to games, like the prices would typically plummet.

So I was like, oh, I flew to Chicago. I'm like, I'll just buy tickets on game day because they're going to go down. And then like game day comes, I'm monitoring and monitoring and they just start going through the roof. They went from like a like 175 bucks to like the cheapest one was like $800. And I'm like, I just flew to Chicago to walk around

trying to scalp them. And the game literally kicks off and I don't have a ticket. And I'm like, I'm lying in the grass outside the stadium just like refresh, refresh, refresh. And then one ticket came through for like, I still paid probably twice as much as if I was gonna, if I bought it like a week prior. But I was like, oh my God, something like I wouldn't

like kill myself for buying. I missed like most of the first quarter. I walked in as what's his name is returning that kickoff for a touchdown. Oh, Patterson. Patterson. Yeah, I walked in, I first glimpsed the field is him running down the field is going to touch it.

I was like, let's go over the depths of the depths to the peak of the mountain. It was great. Apparently I'm going to try that at the Titans game too. Well, it usually works, you know? I think it's just like it was a, it was an NFC game away. So there's a tons of Pats fans there. So I think that's what had to do.

But typically if you wait, because I, before that, I checked tickets like after I had bought them just to see what was going on and they'd like drop through the floor, right? Yeah. So that 2014 game, it is New England 17 Chicago 7 with a minute 55 left in the half. And the Patriots score a two-yard touchdown at Gronk

like on the next play. And then it looks like the Bears go three and out. The fourth and 13, they punt and Edelman returns it like well inside like basically they punt from their own end zone. Edelman returns it to the 20 and punt return to the 20. Patriots score a touchdown a couple of plays later. It's now 31-7.

And then it was still one minute, seven seconds left. Zach Moore is playing quarterback and he gets stripped Zach, which Nugravic then returned for a touchdown for the third touchdown in under a minute. So went from going, they went from going from 17-7 going into the half to 38-7. And that was the ball game. The Patriots are at 51-23.

We'll get there eventually. Was that when Brady shook her lacquer? Is that the same game? No, that was way early. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I am a different game in mind.

I'm not going to say it's better than but Fumble, but it's a very to me close one. And it has a similar just like quick phrase like that that everyone's going to remember it forever by. It's the seeing ghost one from this past year. Yeah. Prime time. It was Monday night or Sunday night football.

And that quote alone. It's just like, I haven't seen a defense do that to someone in a long, long time. He was just awful. It was like third quarter and you're like, why are they even putting them out there? This is doing more harm than good. Yeah.

They were like, is this going to stunt his group as a player? You know, it's going poorly when they bring that show up. Yeah. I know. I love that game. But I can't think of any like really competitive good games, right? I think in the Rex Ryan era, there were some good ones.

There were when they had their good defense. Yeah. And that defense would give Brady problem. But I do remember that like the Thanksgiving day one, I was like, oh, it's sweet. The Patriots are playing on Thanksgiving, but like I don't want to be like usually just want to be lazy and like dozen in out of games.

And it's like, is it going to suck having to like be worried about the Patriots winning this game? And then it was like immediately over. And I remember just being, well, it's back to party mode. Just like, I can fall super by one. I know at the outcome. And I was just like, that's exactly what you wanted for Thanksgiving day game.

But you just couldn't fall asleep because then you'd miss another touchdown. That's what it felt like. Yeah. And then the bus fumble. And you're like, this is so funny because the three touchdowns in the minute were there was a wheel route to Shane Vareen.

Shane Vareen. Yeah. Who just took it. It was a long one. Yeah. Because nobody covered him. Yeah. Basically.

And then it was the butt fumble. And then on the ensuing kickoff, kick returner fumbled it directly to the air. Edelman caught it on the run and just ran it in for it. And so it's awesome watching as a past fan, but imagine being a Jets fan watching. And you're like, oh man, I hope this doesn't go poorly on Thanksgiving because I love this holiday.

And then not only does it go poorly, but it's like the most embarrassing game in franchise history. It might be NFL history. Like give me another more embarrassing play in NFL history than the butt fumble. Didn't it win like the Colts trying to get that fake point? Yeah. But it's just poor execution.

The butt fumble is just hilarious. Well, the butt fumble, it won some like sports center award. Didn't it like the like the not not top 10 play of the week? Yeah. For like, like they basically had to retire it because nothing else could beat it. And it won it for like months in a row every day. That's how Colts fake punted the same thing, I feel.

But I agree. The butt fumble is more unintentionally hilarious. Right. Yeah. He just literally ran to the back of his own guy and fumbled the ball because of it. No idea what he was trying to do. He kind of like knocked out Colt. He was asleep before he hit the ground.

And it's a shame because like they have a good fan base, I feel like New Yorkers. And if we still have that. Well, maybe I'm thinking from the perspective of like, would it be fun to talk shit to each other? Sure. You know, I feel like they're good shit talkers. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like Panthers fans. It's not it's not even worth it because it's like it's like Philly fans. Like they'll be able to give it. Yes. You know. Yeah, exactly.

And like the Knicks suck too. And I guess the Rangers are okay, but there's never for New York having like so much money and power and influence and like world politics for them. Their sports seems to be just so god awful. It's amazing. Yeah. It's ridiculous.

And they have two of like each sport in there too. Knicks, the Nets, the Rangers, the Islanders, the Jets, the Giants, and they're just all bad. That's the Yankees. The Yankees, as much as I hate the Yankees, like that is good for baseball. Like I prefer the Yankees to be competitive than not. That's fair. But it also warms my heart that all of the Boston sports teams

in our basically in our upbringing have won usually at the expense of. And dude, it's it's just ridiculous in like historic ways often like the Jets, you know, the way that we beat the Jets. I mean, the Giants obviously have some claim, but like the Yankees losing being up three, three games to none in the ALC. That might be my favorite non championship playoff. More so than beating the Ravens in that back and forth game. I think given the circumstances of where the Red Sox were at that point in time,

where the curse of the Bambino didn't know who's your daddy. Aaron fucking Boone. Yeah. And then to go down three nothing. And then they remember they went to Fenway and just beat the ever loving shit out of the socks. Yeah. Yeah. For the Red Sox to come back and win those four games is just it's just so improbable.

And against the team that like you'd want it to happen against that is just too many colliding like amazing things that happened that I don't know that one really. I want to shout out Mick Brown, our dad, who is probably the biggest Sox fan of our family. Like mom's a Pat's fan, but dad is the Sox fan. And he actually called it. He's like, what better way to break up was a 97 year streak of losing and not winning the World Series than to come back from 3 0 down to the New York fucking Yankees. And he said that the day before game four.

Just a bunch of idiots, you know. Yeah. Cowboy out. They were dumb enough to do it. Shout out Jeff Carr. Yeah. Yeah, Steve's friend. I had gym class with Jeff Carr.

Really? Yeah. And like every day we'd come back to gym class and be like, dude, are they going to do this? Are they going to do it? I think they might do this. And I remember looking forward to talking Red Sox with Jeff Carr every day of that series. He loves the Sox. Loves the Sox.

He's probably the biggest Red Sox fan I know. Yeah. He's up there. He's actually a huge Celtics guy too. Yeah. And a 49ers fan. That's what I meant to ask. Oh, we'll love this.

I meant to ask Tucker if why he doesn't do any stats on the revolution. My other stat thing I was going to ask him is he went to Harvard and what does he, how many times does he average per day bringing that up to friends and family? So shout out Tucker. Tucker, if you're listening, please respond via Twitter. And I wish you would. Because we know you love. Yeah.

All right. I got to peace out to you guys. All right. I don't. You want to just hang on here, Andy? Yeah. Let's keep chatting, bud. All right.

Because we haven't even touched on some of this stuff. Because there has been a shit ton of overlap between the passengers. I think that's what makes this dynasty, especially in the, you know... Bye, Steve. We always say bye to Steve first. Steve, we love you. Goodbye. Bye, Steve.

Bye, guys. Have a wonderful time tonight. I don't care. I just hope you have a great time. Bachelor party. Because he's getting married on Saturday. For those that can't see, he's doing this in quotations. By the way, Steve, this is an audio medium.

So keep doing those air quotes. All right. And showing pictures up on the... Yeah, right. I can't. This is why I'm leaving. Because you guys are just abusive to me. Maybe if you're nicer, I would tell my friend to go fuck himself.

But nope. Now I'm going to go hang out with him instead. All right. I hope he doesn't... That makes sense. I love you, Steve. I love you, too. Love you, Steve.

Andy. Oh, Steve, you are not a trick me. That's why I love you. I love you, too, Greg. Trick me like that. Bye, guys. See you. And then there were two.

And there were two. We were dropping like flies. It was like watching Jets' Coaches. All the fuck off every year. You got some notes on Jets' Coaches? I do. Why? So there's actually been a surprising amount of overlap.

Can I guess how many there were since in Belichick time frame? Can you tell me how many there were? And I'll see if I can name them. One, two, three. There's technically like four big ones. Okay. Like not counting like assistant coaches and shit like that. But head coaches.

Yeah. Yeah. Rex Ryan, Todd Bowles. Oh, you're talking about... I'm talking about coaches who played on both. Oh, no. I was going to say how many coaches have they had since we got Belichick? One, two, three, four, five, six.

Okay. So back this far is what's his name at? That's at Arizona State right now. Herm. Herm Edwards. Why you don't win the game? Was that this season? I think we...

Hermanisms. I think it's 01. Oh, maybe it was last season. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And last season was also what's the name on the Colts? Playoffs.

Oh, yeah. But who was he? He was coaching the Colts, right? Yeah, because it was Peyton Manning kept throwing it. It's after you saw like three a game. Like playoff. So he wants to win another game. Playoffs.

And Marche Brodo. But that's not it. Everybody listening to this is yelling into their radio. Like it's this fucking asshole. Come on, step check. Jim Mora. There you go. So.

Herm Edwards. Yes. He played 10 games against the Patriots. Okay. Todd Bowles. Todd Bowles. Going out of order here. Against the Patriots.

Rex Ryan. 13 games against the Patriots. Yeah. Three more. Mangini. Seven games against the Patriots. Two more. You'll get one of these.

I'll get one of them. Most recent. Currently coaching. Who currently coaching? Who coaches the Jets? It's not Bowles anymore. Hasn't been. All right.

You got to give them to me. Adam Gase. Oh, Gase. The quarterback whisperer, if you will. I forgot about Gase. And at the beginning was Al Groh. Al Groh. I believe he was a replacement for Belichick.

When Belichick laughed. Interesting. And beat the Patriots both times in 2000. Well, I was close. I mean, that's actually less than I would have thought. Because I mean, I think if you do this same exercise for the Bills or the Dolphins, you're looking at like 10 plus coaches probably.

I mean, I could give you that real quick. Let's see. You want to do the Dolphins? Let's see. Miami Dolphins. How many coaches do you think? Eight. Ten.

So they both last like in one of them. Let's see. In terms of games, coached against the Patriots is nine, seven, six. A couple of guys with six. One with four. One stead. One stead had nine.

He was the top guy. I wonder if you can get the second game. Maybe. I feel like they just had so many generic. I mean, they had games. There's a couple of. Yep. Gaze was there.

There's a couple guys who did both. I can't. Todd Bowles also was a. He's a head coach of the Dolphins. Yeah. Oh, yeah. One game against the Patriots. I don't know how long it lasts.

Tony Sporano was the second longest tenured guy. Yeah. Adam Gaze and Joe Philbin both coached six games against the Patts. Uh, you've got Nick Saban. Remember that Nick Saban era? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just briefly.

And then let's see. He's such a. He's he gets a pass for that for like everyone loves him so much. But he I don't. Again, he's a guy that's like built the culture that kind of like operates on its own. Like the prestige of Alabama. Right. Functions more than like, I think his coaching acumen.

Yeah. And then Jim Bates for one game. That may have been an interim thing. Dan Campbell, Cam Cameron and now Brian Flores to you. Oh, the Buffalo three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Nine. Dolphins. I'm going to give them to you real quick.

Chan Galey, Dick Geron, Doug Morone, Greg Williams, Mike Malarkey, Perry Felt, fuel. Rex Ryan, Sean McDermott and Wade Phillips. A lot of defensive minded guys there, I feel like for the most part. Got to fit the culture, you know, you got to slow down the Patriots. I think is what it is. Hmm. All these people talking about how the AFC East hasn't had a good quarterback. It's because they always bring in defensive minded coaches, I think.

Because the Tom Brady led Patriots offense has been such a wagon for so long. Step one is to. But can you name the four coaches that have coached on both teams? They weren't all head coaches. They weren't all head coaches. Three of them. Like career wise, you're talking about. Yeah.

For both the Patriots and the Jets. Parcells, Manjini, Belichick. He says there's a fourth. Yeah. It's not. It's not. It's Pete Carroll. It is Pete Carroll.

New York Jets coach. Ninety. Started there. Hellhead coach. Yeah, with the Jets. Ninety four. What that? Yeah.

And the Patriots would win. He was here for three years between Parcells and Belichick and would win one less game every season as he coached the Pats. So took them from a playoff contender to eight and eight. Well, of course, three years. Yeah. A lot of stuff around Bill Parcells, which I think may even be it's a whole separate thing. The other overlap, I think, is players.

We've already talked about Curtis Martin and Tom Tupa, but there's been some like huge fucking names that have either gone from the Pats of the Jets or vice versa. One of them is your boy, Ty Law. I didn't wonder. Yeah. Now that I have you on, just you. How do you feel about Ty Law finishing? Well, not finishing, but ending up on the Jets and playing for a hated rival.

You see, to me, the Jets aren't even the biggest rival anymore. True. Like by the time Ty Law, it was still like borderline. For me, like the dynasty, the Peyton Manning's been the rival. That's the one guy where you're like, I'm scared of him. I'd love to beat him every year, you know, like he, but he could beat us every year. So those like even the Colts and then even the Denver days. He was to me, the guy you had to beat in the AFC.

So him going to, and it was more like a personal thing than a team thing. I don't know if I necessarily like dislike the Colts, but I was like, if the Patriots don't win, I don't want Manning to win. That's exactly how I felt. Yeah. And I think that's how you like quantify if they're a rival or not, is if you actively root against those players. I think that's why 0-6 was so bad because it felt like the AFC championship game

between the Colts and Patriots was the Super Bowl. Because whoever was going to win that was going to beat the Bears in the Super Bowl. And so as soon as you lost to the Colts, you're like, fuck, we just gave him a fucking Lombardi and that felt even worse. And we had like kept Manning at bay until that point of bike. He still hasn't won anything yet, you know, his first breakthrough. And they did it basically because of him in the second half. Because the Patriots got up big and then he clawed his way back.

Yep. That was tough. But Ty Law went to the Jets in 0-5 just for a season. He had the most interceptions he's ever had in a season with 10. But I remember he didn't play particularly. I remember he was like kind of an up and down year. Was he? I think so.

10 interceptions is a fucking lot of interceptions. Made the Pro Bowl. Maybe that was just my brain trying to justify it. It's very possible too. Because 98 was the only year that he was close. They had nine interceptions. It's kind of a finicky stat for cornerbacks anyways. True.

And then he did two years in Kansas City, another year in the Jets. And apparently finished in 0-9 with the Broncos. Played seven out. I don't even remember that at all. I get like one or two picks there, right? He had one interception. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but I think the thing that eased that for me was the fact that Dorel Rivas has a Super Bowl ring with the New England Patriots. Yeah, it's pretty hilarious. That's their tie law. Basically, right? Yeah, yeah. And the difference being that tie law won three Super Bowls here.

Yes. Went there on like a mediocre team. And then Rivas like could never get over the hump there. Comes here, immediately wins a Super Bowl and then leaves. And then Balesley and then goes back. But then the Jets pay him that ridiculous contract, right? Which hamstrung them because he didn't really play anything like the Dorel Rivas that you'd seen in the past.

And they were also a terrible team and didn't have anything around them to build on. Yeah, that organization's a dumpster fire. Some other big names that have played on both teams. Our boy Brian Cox. Played for the Pats and then was the linebacker coach for the Jets. He didn't play for both teams, but he kind of did. And also our friend, Matt Chatham, played in the Patriots. And then eventually went and played for the Jets under Brian Cox,

who was his linebacker coach. Some other names who kind of went the other way and were instrumental to these early Patriots defenses. Roman Pfeiffer, Anthony Pleasant and Victor Green. We've seen Victor Green a lot this season, actually. Especially his, what, 80, 90 yard interception return for touchdown in the bloat against the Jets earlier this season. Against the Jets.

Yeah. Left pretty bad terms. Vinny Testaverde, another big name. No, Vinny. And our boy Danny Woodhead, who... I kind of forgotten the story, so you brought it up the other day where Danny Woodhead was the darling of hard knocks when the Jets were on it, right? Yes.

Everybody loved him. And then for whatever reason, the Jets cut him. And what happens then? I don't remember. Could you remind me? Like, that is perfect too, you know? It's like they knew what they had too, because we watched it. Like we watched the coaches rave about him.

And then you're like, they cut him. Why did they cut him? Yeah. Like everyone loved this guy, the whole show. And that was like peak hard knocks too, because like that was when they had Rex Ryan and then like they were getting huge numbers for that hard knocks. Everybody knew who Danny Woodhead was. Everybody.

That's a brutal call by that organization. And all he would do is play 14 games that season. 97 rushes for 547 yards and five touchdowns. No big deal. And also 34 catches and another touchdown. Played two more years with New England. Put up. Let's see.

1,100 yards in those three years. 10 touchdowns on the ground and another four touchdowns in the air. Like he was an integral part of that onto the Chargers. Do you know where he ended his career? He went to San Diego, right? And then for one year, he went and played in Baltimore. Yeah. Yeah, Baltimore.

I don't remember that at all. Good for him. He's a good dude too. He's been on a few podcasts. Yeah, I wonder if he'd come on. Maybe once we get to that arrow, we'll see if we can reach out to him. Speaking of like controversial people getting cut and signed, remember when Geno Smith got punched in the face by his own teammate?

Did he break his jaw? He broke his jaw. He was out six to 10 weeks, had to get surgery. I'm like, this guy's name is, I don't know. I'm not going to pronounce it right, but like a backup linebacker. Yeah. This is the guy that did it. I'm guessing that linebacker didn't make the team though.

Well, so then he got cut. Right. And then Rex Ryan signed him, right? For Buffalo. Oh, that's right. And then had him go out there as like a captain. As a captain, right? Against the Jets because there's been a Todd Bolz Jets era.

That's ballsy. I feel like somebody else did that. And it was over like he owed him like 40 bucks or something. Yeah. But I mean, like usually your quarterback is the leader in the locker room, you would think, right? Like that's usually what you hear about as quarterbacks, like at least the good ones, the Tom Brady's, the Peyton Manning's, the Aeroj, maybe not Aeroj's. But they're like the leader, like they're the respected guys in the locker room.

And you just can't imagine any of those guys getting sucker punched in the face and breaking their jaw by anybody, especially on your own team. I always wondered if there was something more going on there. That's what I'm wondering. Like if it was. Even like if you're an athlete at that level, you know, and you're like on the bubble. Yeah. You know that you're getting cut if you punch your starting quarterback in the face.

Especially if you break his foot. Yeah. Even if you don't break his jaw, you get cut, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So there's got to be something that that triggers you enough to go and do that. So I'm wondering if there's something they didn't tell us. It feels that way, doesn't it?

It feels like what was the name of the Celtics that was rumored to be sleeping with Lebron's mom? Delante West. And that's the one. Have you seen him lately? Yeah, not in great shape, it seems. No. Poor guy. He's got some.

So in honor of having Tucker on, I have a staff for you. It's here. I have AFC East divisional championships since 1970 to the current day. New England Patriots have 21. Basically 2001 onwards and also 78, 86, 96. New York Jets. How many times did the New York Jets won the AFC East? How many of the Pats have you say?

21. And there's so there's like 30 years unaccounted for. I mean, Marino must have won a bunch of them. Jim Kelly. Fallow went through the yeah. So it's probably not that many. I would say six. Two.

Two? Since the 70s? 1998 and 2002. Good lord. So that's bad. Yeah. So is that worse than pre 2004 Red Sox where the Red Sox were good and they would win the the A.L. East and they would have these teams that you would expect would make a deep run in the playoffs.

And they were, you know, finishing ahead of the Yankees all these times, but we're still managing to find a way to fail. Or is it worse that they just don't even get there? And they're just a perennial laughing stock. I think mediocre to not get there. I think being along for the journey. And then just from a standpoint of like looking forward to games to watch, right? When your teams blow, that's why when people say it's like a fair weather fair weather fan,

I don't really buy that because it's like there's nothing at stake. Right? Yeah. Like if you tell me you want me to watch like a week 16 game where it doesn't even matter. Yeah. When the team six, nine and like, yeah. If I'll stick through them, if they lose huge games and it's like heartbreaking losses, sure. Yeah.

But for them to just be like non-factors, like that's not the reason I watch sports. I watch sports to watch games that that matter. Yeah. You know what the best part of this conversation is? We're talking hypotheticals because we don't know. It's so true. It's so true. Do we have, I don't think we know any Jets fans, do we?

I don't think we'd stoop that low. But if we did, we could ask them. We got some bills fans. They'll fail to fill that. Yeah, we should definitely have some of that one. Yeah. All right. That is all I had on the Patriots' Jets rivalry.

If you want more, there's, like I said, a Wikipedia page on it that gets a nitty gritty of like the early 70s and 80s and even the bit of like the Bill Parcells move for the Jets and how that went down. It's kind of a shitty, shitty map. Everybody knew going into that Super Bowl against the Packers that he was basically on his way out. He didn't fly home on the team jet after the game because he just went straight to New York. So, yeah, but I think that's all I have. Is there anything else you wanted to add as a...

Yeah, I have a relevant news story topic. I'm listening. The Patrick Mahomes deal that was just signed. Crazy money, crazy years. Correct. Do you think they will regret that? Eventually, yeah. Because I've never seen a deal that big not come back to bite the team.

I think you'll still be good. I don't know if you'll be half a billion dollars good. You know what I mean? And like so much happens in school. Unless Mahomes starts drinking two gallons of water a day and long gaining his hamstring and shoulder muscles. To me, injury is like a biggest risk part of that thing too. Especially since you suffered from them already. And I think I've been saying this all the way through this podcast is I love watching him.

But every time I do, I worry that he's going to get hurt. Is that kind of mobile guy who... Like, yeah, he's not like an RG3 who like his game is running the ball as well. Or even like a Cam Newton. He moves around and buys enough time for himself that I think that it will eventually catch up to him. And I'm worried for that because I love watching him play. He's the most exciting player I think in the league right now behind Lamar Jackson. Yeah. So I have up right now the biggest NFL contracts currently.

So let's just the top 10. Let's just run through and say, do you think they regret it or not? Okay. Okay. So Mahomes, Matt Ryan. He's got like four more years. It's $150 million gone, Trax. I think it's fine.

I mean, I don't think he was worth the money they paid him at the time, but I think he's, he's top half of the league as a quarterback. Okay. So that one's undecided. Khalil Mack. I think that will eventually come back to bite them. Yeah. Just being that one player on defense. On a defensive player.

Yeah. Russell Wilson, I think that one's a homerun. Yeah, I think. Yeah, regardless. Yeah, regardless of anybody. Yeah. Andrew Luck. Jimmy Garoppolo.

Probably not that pumped about it. There was rumors that I'm trying to trade him this year. He took him to the Super Bowl though. I know, but he's also part of the reason they didn't win the Super Bowl with a stacked roster. Aaron Donald. Well, let's do these two together. Aaron Donald and Jared Goff.

Goff is a bust already. The pages are closing. Goff went from bust to Hall of Famer to bust all in three years. Matt, he did. Which is incredible. Well, he went from Hall of Famer to bust in one Super Bowl. Yeah. As soon as the pages did within one game.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's all it took. And now he just hasn't been the same since. Matt Stafford. I mean, that one's okay. I guess. I think that's probably a good point.

And then Aaron Rodgers, I think is probably a positive. So you're about 50-50. How much does Rodgers have left on his career, on his contract though? He signed a four-year deal on 2018 for $134 million. Oh, he's only got two years left then. Yeah. So. But just so much can happen in 10 years that it's like.

So here you go. I found a list. Like Andrew Luck is retired. Like you would have told me that like two years ago, I would have told you crazy. So here's looking at that from a different perspective. Let's take a look at the five 10-year deals in NFL history. Number one is Brett Favre, the Packers.

That one worked out. 10-year, $100 million extension in March, 2001. So yeah, that basically worked out. Played out seven of his 10 years in the contract before the Packers dealt away. This one we know close to our hearts, Drew Pledso, 10 years, $103 million signed March, 2001. Yikes. So that lasted not even a year.

That's 14 months after signing the contract, the page decided to go on with Brady, which meant dumping blood. So after just one season on his new deal, the quarterback was traded to Buffalo. Right. Donovan McNabb with the Eagles signed a 12-year, $150 million extension in 2002. Surprisingly, the deal given to Patrick Mahomes

is the first time that Andrew Reed has given one of his quarterbacks a contract that ran for at least a decade. That is crazy. Because 2002, that was right before they went to Super Bowl, right? Two years before. Because they went to Super Bowl 04. And that was when they were going to the NFC Championship game every year, but couldn't win it.

They went like four years in a row. And that fourth year was the one that they won. So I guess the time they made sense. But yeah, I guess McNabb played eight of those 12 years, led Philly to six playoff appearances, four NFC title games, and Super Bowl. And then he got traded to the Redskins. This one's not quite as good. A 10-year, $102 million extension in May of 2003 for Dante Culpepper on the Vikings.

That's the Randy Moss effect. Despite the fact that he's coming off a 2002 season where he went six and 10, Viking still thought it was a good idea to give Culpepper a 10-year deal. Although he was somewhat productive for the Vikings first two years of the deal, he never made the playoffs with them after he signed it. And would only last a few more seasons in Minnesota before getting traded to the Dolphins after 2005. And Culpepper was Miami's backup option after attempts to add rubries fell through.

And so the Dolphins also got the... And then the last one was Michael Vick, the Falcon signed a 10-year, $130 million deal in 2004. And then 2006. I think we all know what happens. Dited and later convicted on federal dogfighting charges, 21-month prison sentence. And that one didn't work out either. So, Favre worked out. McNabb, you could probably say worked out.

I mean, none of these guys played their full con. Yeah, it depends on what you... Favre was closest. Played seven... Yeah, all sides. As you know, well, McNabb played eight of his 12 years. Favre played seven of his... And I mean, the other piece of it too is you're kind of handcuffing your salary cap

if you have someone committing $40 million a year to it. And I think it goes up from there. Like it's a lot of money. And I think it was probably Tucker had some stat where maybe it wasn't even him or somebody online posted that only two teams have won the Super Bowl with their quarterbacks taking up more than like 11% of their salary cap. And it was Steve Young with the 49ers in the first ever year of the salary cap, which kind of doesn't count because you could build up the roster before that.

And Tom Brady in whatever his last contract was 2012, that contract. And it was like 11%. And I think Mahomes is close to 20 if this goes through. So thank God for Giselle. Exactly. The moneymaker of the family. Giselle is the reason for the Patriots' dynasty. So Giselle and Tom Tupa.

Yeah. I think we've added other people in there. Because without Giselle, who knows if he's taking those like budget deals. That's true. No idea. But now we've got Cam Newton taking budget deals. We'll see how that works out. Who's his wife?

I'm going to message her on... I'm going to slide in her DMs and be like, baby, you got to get that paper. Your husband and I'll be the moneymaker of this family. It's 2020. Quality, baby. That's right. All right then.

That wraps up the bi-week episode. We'll see you all next week when the Patriots... Who the hell knows where they're headed? You'll find out next week along with the rest of us on the Patriots' dynasty podcast. See you later. See you later.