Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2003 Super Bowl: Patriots vs Panthers

Episode Date: April 20, 2021

The Patriots head to Houston to face the Carolina Panthers in the XXX'iest Super Bowl ever: Super Bowl XXXVIII. Join the Brown brothers (plus a bonus brother!) as they talk about the similarities between the teams, the top moments of the game, and, of course, the half time show that everyone still remembers.Show Notes:Here's the game page on the website if you want to see highlights.This game's on Youtube if you want to watch it yourself.Here's the Sports Illustrated article on the long-snapperAnd here's a list of those Bo Jangles commercials featuring Jake Delhomme. Wow.Don't forget to text us your thoughts on the Dynasty Hotline! Let us know what you think about this game or anything else. [phone]Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown and while I have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny, but really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. Welcome back to the Patriots' Dynasty podcast. Had a bi-week last week, but in preparation for a big game, you kind of have to do that. So we're back. And it is your host here, Andy Brown, along with both brothers, Brown, Greg and Steve, who I believe actually both watched the game this week. I always watch the game. Me too. I think we both know I wasn't talking

about you, Steve. Bobby's on. And we got two guests. What? Kelly's here ruining the surprise. Yes, Marked into the bedroom. She can't hear anything we're saying. Andy was just about to announce me. Yep. I can only imagine. Okay, that's fine.

Okay, bye. Bye, Kelly. Good input. Thanks for the contribution. Great start. Yeah. And so for the surprise that was now ruined, we've also with us joining us today, our brother-in-law, Bobby Bridges, the Carolina Panthers fan, Bobby Bridges. It felt appropriate to bring him back. We've talked to him before, but these are better circumstances for you, Bobby, I would think.

I'm just here to boost my ratings from the last time I was on. With whom? Yeah. Again, three anyways, one of those mom with all the Patriots fans that are dying to hear you come back on the podcast. I just add whatever flavor I can. I love it. Yeah. So last time we talked to you, the Panthers were one in 15 finishing out that season.

This was only two seasons ago, and the Patriots had thrashed them to end their season going to their playoffs. And you said it was the low point in the franchise's history, if I recall. I believe that's accurate. So then would that make this 2003 team the high point or just a high point? Yeah, I was thinking that for me personally, high point, like this was a high watermark. This was like, I mean, this is the most important Panthers game I've ever watched, most important Panthers game of my life.

I high moment for the franchise, I think arguably in retrospect, yes, because we don't even need to talk about that stupid ass shit show against Denver a few years ago. Yeah. I mean, those are the only competition, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, which team would you say was better as a Panthers fan? Because that more recent one with Cam Newton, they were what, 15 and one? Yeah, that was a better team. But this 2000 feet three team was grittier. And the second half showed that, as I recall.

Yes. So yeah, these these Carolina Panthers back in 2003 finished the season 11 and five. It was good enough for the three seed in the NFC. And they kind of had a bit of a wild ride to the Super Bowl. Because I know we actually touched on it last week, week before, when the Patriots were playing their their divisional game against the Titans in the cold. Yeah, they were they kept showing highlights of the the Panthers game because they were playing the Rams and they beat the Rams in double overtime

where Steve Smith took a quick slant and just fucking housed it. Walked it off first. Yeah, this was the most important game. But that Rams game is my favorite Panthers game of my entire life, actually. I vividly remember that game and where I was watching it. And I that Steve Smith play, I remember that that play is seared into my soul. It was the only way it could have gone down.

I can picture it in front of my eyes right now. Yeah, I understand that feeling. I have that for a few pages, please. But that actually brings me to my point. I because I feel like Steve, I don't I kind of want to hear my brother say about this. I feel like Steve Smith is like a Rodney Harrison type of guy where you love him if he's on your team, but otherwise you think you fucking hate him.

Yeah, he was like, I disagree. I knew you would, Greg. Because I imagine like he's probably one of like the top like Panthers in Panther history, right? I have no hesitation in saying he's the greatest Panther in history. And my opinion is if you didn't like Steve Smith, you didn't fucking like football. Agree, complete agree. He's different than Rodney in that, even if he's not on your team,

you love him because he's just fucking awesome. But I feel like he was that same like always played right on the edge would just trash talk the shit out of everybody all the time. And like he seemed to be able to rile up the other team in a way that felt very reminiscent of Rodney Harrison. He was like a Heinz Ward to me. So that's a pretty good comparison. Yeah, I think he was probably more talented than Heinz Ward.

But yes, but also like if you're going to, I mean, Steve Smith's making my top 10 all time athletes in terms of biggest chip on your shoulder. Like he's up there in terms of just like every game showed up with a like, I heard all these motherfuckers thought I sucked at football like literally before every game. And like the thing about his trash talk was like that shit cut deep. I mean, the most hilarious moment ever was this like Minnesota game when he like just just ripped Fred Smuts like so out of his body.

Now, I think that was the like ice up sun game. Yes. Oh, that's right. Yeah. He's even better now with like the the analyst stuff he did. Like he was doing Thursday night football halftime show. And like Michael Irvin was like trying to like playfully talk shit to him about like his suit or something. Oh, that's right. And Steve Smith was just having none of it. He was just like, he was like, fuck you, I'm a better receiver than yours.

That's how he responds to every moment. And it's become clear in all aspects of his life. Like if you have something to say, I have a response. I'm coming for you. He also apparently runs like an epic soccer camp. Realist soccer. Yeah. His kids, his kids play soccer. He's like super into it. No shit. Stay.

Pretty sweet. So I just Googled like top Steve Smith. Best of Steve Smith, seniors, trash talk on Baltimore Ravens dot com of all websites. Whatever they can try to claim that ownership that they want. Yeah, well, I know. But the slideshow, the number of the first slide is I look in the eyes of all my victims before I take their lunch money. That sounds right. It sounds right.

Yeah, it really does. And there's another one I don't know who he's talking about, but we're not on the same team anymore. So I'm going to go try and knock his block off, too. And when I get up, I'm going to spin the football, go back to the huddle and do it again. That's just media shit talking to. Yeah. Put your goggles on because there's going to be blood and guts everywhere.

He said that about coming back to his first Panthers game. Oh, he wasn't happy about the way things ended. He was not wrong in the way he was treated by ownership. How did it end? I don't think I remember. They just didn't resign him. And it was just like for a franchise icon, completely inexcusable. Oh, yeah. It wasn't like he was too old and losing a step.

Because there's a lot of quotes in here about like, yeah. And then he went to the loss of stuff and then he went to Baltimore and like had a thousand yard season and was like, fuck everybody. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that year. This is a good one. Honestly, I want your mom to be pissed off when she sees on Sports Center that I'm doing her son like dirt.

The difference like is is like you have those players now like. The guy from the Rams, the cornerback. You have the cocky guys. Yeah, or the Sherman, the Richard Sherman, but they don't feel as authentically like psychopathic as Smith does. Like that's what's great about Smith is it's very genuine. You could tell it's not like he's just like playing a play in a character. He is actually that fucking crazy.

Yeah, it was never for attention. It was not about spectacle. This was pre-social media. He like actually took all this shit personally. And it was like his journey to the league, right? He was like a special teams guy from like Utah that nobody thought would make it. And like, you know, he's like one of those guys. You like he like truly legit fought and earned his spot in the league.

And then I think truly felt disrespect by everyone all the time. It sure seems that way. And that's why I was saying like my comparison was Rodney Harrison, because I mean, Rodney Harrison was the king of nobody believes in us. We are playing with the chip on our shoulder because everybody's talking shit and we're going to prove the world wrong and all that sort of crap. Even when they were in the midst of like a 20 something game win streak and nobody was doubting them.

Is he in the hall of fame, Steve Smith? It's a good question. I don't think he's eligible yet. I was going to say, I think he's been retired long enough. OK. He's one of those like borderline cases on the numbers. But I mean, I think I've made it clear where my my opinion lies. I think so, too. I think he should get in and stay in here.

He's seventh in NFL career receiving yards. That's got to be that's got to be a Hall of Famer. Twelfth in receptions and 25th in touchdowns. That's got to be pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty legit. What about Edelman, then? Who also this way? Edelman's sneaky crazy, too.

Yeah, I think he's also got that chip on the show. You play he didn't you didn't say like he didn't talk the same way that Steve Smith did, but I think he played the same way. Right, I agree. I always think back to I think it was the Seattle Super Bowl when they had like the miked up version and he like got crunched in a hit and he got up laughing and goes, I love getting hit. Yeah, it's like that.

That's just a fucking crazy man. Absolutely. Yeah. Or they were saying something about how he was on the bench, miked up. He's like, so my dad always said growing up when you have somebody on the ground, you've got to step on their throat. Yeah. And then like later on, it comes back to me. He's like, that explains a lot about me. Actually, really, doesn't it?

Apparently, I think his dad was a bit of a psycho, though. Edelman's makes a lot of sense. He seems a little more like social media savvy, though, and like kind of knows what he's doing. I mean, that could also just be a sign of the times, too, though. Right. That's true. That's true. Um, but yeah.

So, Bobby, do you have any, like, just overall thoughts about this 2003 team? There's memories generally about them. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I remember this team so well. This was like such a such a watershed moment. I mean, for me, this was freshman year in college. And in the early days of the Panthers, I like had not. Like I didn't I didn't really get in on the team closely when they were in like, you know, 96 and all that.

But like a little bit later on high school started to because then this was like after we lost the Hornets and like the Panthers were kind of the thing in town. Football has grown a little bit, but I might have said this the last time, but like it was still big time Redskins Cowboys territory, which is why actually I seem to remember we trashed Dallas in the first round during the stupid Quincy Carter days. It was such a satisfying victory

because the Cowboys fans were such obnoxious assholes. We're like, smash them. I think we might have even we either shut them out or they only score like three points. And it was just like fucking assholes. Twenty nine to ten, apparently. Yeah. I'll beat them. Yeah, I mean, this team, it was like, I mean, the winning season came out of nowhere. You know, like you said, it's like we were total shit.

And then 2001, John Fox takes over in 2002 and immediately at least makes the franchise respectable. I think we went seven and nine the year before and then was like, have the makings of a solid defense. But like we're coming into that season and it's like Steve Smith, like this was his blow up season. Like you've been solid to us in two. But like he was just a returner before that.

Hussein Muhammad was like a respectable veteran, but he didn't blow up until really about this time as like the legit number two receiver. Um, we like signed Steven Davis, I think from the Redskins. It's like this like slightly over the hill, workhorse back, but like nobody knew if he was going to stay healthy. And then Rodney Pete was the starting quarterback to start that season. Rodney Pete. And it's funny because my the first game of that season, we played the Jaguars

and my parents went to that game. And that was the game that that I mean, to like Jake DeLome. Remember this, this is fucking Jake DeLome, like coming out of nowhere, NFL Europe, like on the practice squad. And then they put him at halftime or religion to Jacksonville. He sparks the comeback and then wins the starting job week one. Like people were, I mean, my parents were buzzing about it coming home. Like people were jacked.

The second half was awesome. This guy Jake DeLome comes on, brings the comeback. And it just, it was one of those seasons, right? Where it's like this like scrappy kind of team of no names comes together. And that was the vibe. But like. I mean, without that team, I don't think the Panthers look like they do now. Like without that team to galvanize the fan base, like, I don't know where things are at.

I don't know if the team really gains momentum. Hell, who knows, they might have gotten moved. Maybe I'm being a little dramatic, but like they didn't accomplish much before that. And it's like this season made the Panthers like like a legit thing in in the region. And like. So it was a big deal. I mean, they won a lot of close games that season. Like I mean, they weren't dominant, you know what I mean?

They won 11 to five. I mean, I'm pretty sure they like want a shitload of like down to the wire games and close and like it was like scrappy defense and opportunistic offense. And, you know, kind of a like nobody believes in us attitude the whole fucking way. And I don't think they were favored in any of their playoff games. Like even people were talking about Dallas beating us in the first round, which is why it was so disrespectful. Because Dallas was trash.

They had five overtime games and one of them all. I don't know that last one. Apparently DeLome had eight game winning drives in the fourth quarter over time. This is an NFL record. Yeah. It was that kind of season. Yeah. They like come and you got a DeLome. I mean, I still got my somewhere in the closet.

I, you know, I should have fucking worn it. Maybe I'll go get it in a minute. I got a I got a I got the powder blue DeLome jersey in the closet somewhere. Um, that's a deep cut. I like that. No, he's one of those guys. He can't get his jersey because he's such a fucking dork. He's a drug. Nope. Nope.

But the thing you don't remember is the whole franchise was a giant dork and he he did something special. So like, I don't you say whatever you want about him. That guy, that guy's an important franchise player. But yeah, but he's a nerd. He's a dork. Oh, totally, totally. I'm like watching.

I'd take like four players jerseys over his on this roster. Oh, name them. Julius Peppers, Steve Smith, Chris Jenkins, Ricky Manning. Boom. Ricky Manning. Yeah, Ricky Manning was awesome. Yeah, he was like like low key contributor, glue guy. Uh-huh. Big play guy.

Yeah, plays best in the big games. I mean, all of this is true from a like from a like football nerd standpoint. But like, I don't know, like so many of those moments, it's just like this is a franchise that everything went wrong for beforehand. And then. Like DeLome was the guy who like did anybody think he was a franchise quarterback? Nope. By the end of that season, did people trust him to come through in the clutch?

Yes. And it was like a moment, you know what I mean? It was like a it was like a linsanity kind of moment for a whole season. He was only the second undrafted quarterback to start in a Super Bowl. I think he probably still is, I would guess. Was that after Kurt Warner? It was. Yeah. He got a lot of a lot of the Kurt Warner comparisons that year. Yeah. And like, I think you touched on it earlier.

Jake DeLome was the backup for Amsterdam in the World Football League. You know, who we backed up for Warner. Oh, I would have known this. It was Kurt Warner. Yeah. Yeah. I remember they had a connection from the NFL Europe gig. The Amsterdam admirals. So the Amsterdam admirals are basically a quarterback factory is what we're saying.

Yeah. Like a graduate of Southwestern Louisiana University, another powerhouse, the college that does not exist. Well, I guess it does. It's UL Lafayette now. They changed their name. That's what I thought. I thought they'd become Lafayette. Yeah.

But yeah, I mean, and then the playoff run. I mean, I was watching all these games in my college dorm and this kind of like helped set that like I'm going to Davidson, right? So I'm like literally 20 minutes out of Charlotte, but I'm going to college with a bunch of out of status. Like my whole freshman halls a bunch, like New Jersey, New England, Florida, like people are all over and this like cemented me as like, oh, Bob's the like local guy who's like fucking crazy about the panther.

Yeah, I was Steve made a fucking friend group out of that. Oh, yeah. Just being like, oh, he's a Boston sports guy. Yeah. Yeah. And here I am doing a fucking Patriots podcast for 65 fucking episodes, rewatching all these games. Yeah.

I got a question about the loan. Based on the based on the wikipedia.com entry for DeLome, it said DeLome is noted for licking his fingers before every play and sticking his tongue out as part of his focus, which led him to be a Bojangles fried chicken. Representative, what do you ever want to call like using all the commercials? Yeah, do you remember any of the Bojangles DeLome commercials?

Oh, I don't. I was like waiting to be like, what's the question? All of those things are just facts. And yes, well, no, they're Carolina. I 100 percent remember the Bojangles subscript commercials. Awesome. I mean, I also like no joke, remember the tongue thing. I didn't notice it in this game.

See, he looks like he's on drugs on multiple points in this game. Oh, yeah, he looks he's like he's like kind of wild eyed at times. That at one point for years, I had this DVD that was like I got out of like the ten dollar bin at Walmart once on a whim during like maybe later in college. And it was like one of those like Super Bowl highlights videos. And it like gave you like the spiel in every Super Bowl. And for years, like like the day of the Super Bowl,

I would like make my roommates at the time, watch it and like get hype. And I remember I mean, I can vividly remember all the highlights that had for this game, which was the second to last game on the disc. The last game on the disc was the Eagle Super Bowl, the next one. And but like you can literally see him in the huddle doing that crazy tongue out shit. Yeah, it was crazy. Some country bumpkin crazy ass. He was crazy because and but I think it was more of a good crazy than like a Steve Smith scary crazy. Yeah.

But there was one time where not to ruin anything, but he threw a touchdown and he was running down to celebrate it and Ronnie Harrison kind of like shoulder checked him and he spun around and just started screaming at Ronnie Harrison. No idea what he was saying. Sounds like drugs. Yeah. That's why I wrote that note, that that scene there.

It looks like he's just on, you know, those guys you see and Raven by the 7-Eleven. That's what it looked like. Yeah, look like he was the other way. Yeah. Yep. Bringing Jesus to the field. It's great. Are you guys watching the Jake DeLone Bo Jankles commercials now? No, I already watched them. They're awesome. I think we'll have to put him in there.

It's a hazard one show. Yeah, it takes the hazard one. Sweet. But I mean, he was. I mean, you're talking like an like underdog upstart franchise in a region that hasn't had football. And here you have this guy who took him to the Super Bowl, who say what you want about him. He like bleeds authenticity.

So people love that. That's true. Yeah, that is true. But none of the shit was an act. He just was himself. You know, that's the it's kind of the vibes you got from Brady back in the day, too. Like I was thinking there's a lot of came cool. He was kind of similar, like nerdy, off-shucks kind of guy.

That was like also a competitor when you put him in the field, but you get him off the field. He's like, oh, you know, my teammates. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And he had more of the like quiet intensity on the field vibe. But like that also, yeah, in those days, read as authentic. Of course, now we know it's just, you know, sociopath, but he's definitely on drugs. Steve Smith is in one of these commercials.

Oh, boy, I thought that was a good one. Yeah, Steve Smith strikes me as somebody who can't take a joke. Well, I also remember like moments like this. The Steve Smith, Jake DeLome relationship was interesting because they like simultaneously had a ton of success together and like had a like clear connection. And as Steve Smith sort of like as he hit his prime, there was also this clear tension of like, hey, motherfucker,

if you would just be a little bit better, I could do a lot more. But he would just like they had the kind of relationship where they would just go at it. Like Steve Smith would just tell him, like, motherfucker, you missed that throw in the in the huddle. And they would just like that was the relationship. But like, I think that like that's what set the tone for the whole team. It was just like. We just like it was like a very like a real vibe on that team.

It seemed like another strength of this. Panthers team. Was their defensive line. Like I remember like that's one of the few things I remember from like the bill up to the game was just it was nonstop talk about how would the Patriots offensive line handle this? These absolute fucking monsters on the Panthers defense. Peppers and Mike Rucker on the end.

Brynson Buckner and Chris Jenkins on the middle. Yeah, they were a force. Yeah, they really were. And I thought you kind of saw it early in this game, too, where. Like Brady just had absolutely no time and the whole offensive line of the Patriots getting pushed around. Yeah, the first the first half was low scoring, right? Oh, yeah.

The first light is twenty one, twenty five minutes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And then. Yeah, three and twenty four points were scored right at the end of the half. Oh, that's right. It was right before halftime. Things kind of lit up. Yeah. And then nothing in the third quarter and the fourth quarter.

Yeah. Back and forth. Yeah. It's not a ball. Well, it's supposed to be a boring game, right? Because the Patriots were the the defensive juggernaut and the Panthers had just come off a 14 to three win against the Eagles. So the over unders thirty eight, which is, you know, you never see a thirty eight point over under these days. Right. But yeah, I think people were had low expectations of what this

Super Bowl would be like. Then the Pats were seven point favorites. So it's like they weren't even expecting like a close game. They were thinking a low scoring Patriots win. Right. Yep. Exactly. And it was the complete opposite. It was a fucking shootout that came down to the last play. Which is pretty awesome.

It wasn't. It wasn't because like the first half was 1410. Yeah. And actually, after the third quarter, still 1410. And then there's that back and forth just mayhem at the end. Yeah. Yeah. So do we want to give us a watchability score, boys? We haven't actually done that. We haven't actually said what the final score is either. Everyone knows we went out on the last minute field goal. Yeah. Thirty two twenty nine after all that.

So thirty eight point over under and the pages almost covered that themselves as the Panthers. So nice high scoring game, even though 14 like I said, 1410 going into that fourth quarter. There was one man, John Casey kicked it out of bounds. Five touchdowns. That final, that final kickoff. Yeah. And he was like, he was a really good kicker, too, for you. I'll say no bad words about him. Another important man in the franchise, but what a tragic moment.

It was kind of the opposite of Adam Venetian, this game, because Adam had struggled all season with misses and missed his first field goal and then had a second one blocked. So it was over two on the game and field goals. And then it came down to him having to kick as other field goals were actually short of like 30 something yarders. This one was a forty one yard to win it. What a great example of how the the the victor set the narrative.

Because like the Pat's lose that game, Venetian is a fucking goat. Goal. Yeah. And not in a good way. When you've been close, six add six points to that. It's true. Yeah. We're even three. Also a tough look for John Casey is did you see he had ear plugs in? Yeah, that is just for a kicker that it's just a tough look. Such a kicker thing, you know, he was supposed to be that loud there. Such a kicker thing.

I mean, I remember him as like a like pretty weird dude. Really? He was also like old. Yeah, he like kicked for a long time. He had like a really long career, but like he was like, I think he might have even been then at that time, one of the oldest guys on the team is 34. He kicked for 20 years in the NFL. The rookie season was 1991. So he had been kicking of kicking.

I have notes on that long snapper from the Patriots. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Speaking of old ass motherfuckers. Yeah, tell me about him. So I read that. I think it's a sports illustrated piece. He should read. I got a little quick cliff notes version. But if you have time, you should definitely read it.

He had snapped for Belichick in Cleveland, had been retired for like three years and was teaching third grade or second grade in Louisiana, and then they brought him up right before the playoffs. Right, because the Patriots long snapper got hurt. And so they brought in the backup and he got hurt, too. So they just didn't have a long snapper. So Louis signed this guy off the street, right? Yeah, but from like Belichick's Cleveland days.

You got to love that shit. There's nothing better about sports. I want to I want to I wish I could do that as a principal. I wish I could be like this teacher's on leave. This backup sucks. I'm literally calling somebody I know from college. And I need you in here to teach seventh grade science for six weeks. We're on the verge of a major breakthrough.

You're a part of the team. Here's a jersey. A lot of pressure for jerseys. A lot of pressure like he's like taking camcorders around the Patriots facility and his experience and mailing them back to his second grade classroom in Louisiana. I would love to see those days, by the way, because that's awesome. Oh, man. I wonder if we can get a hold of this. Yes, right before the Super Bowl.

And he got the ball save his life. Yeah. He's skipping them all. And if you look closer, there's a couple of skip snaps in this game on punts on punts. Yeah, that's right. Field goals. So he's like up all night the night before the game, snapping into a pillow. Goes to goes to the meal before the game, tries to cut a dinner roll with a steak knife and fucking gets three stitches,

cuts his fucking hand for the Super Bowl, the meal, the morning of. Bro, get it together. Yeah. So he's already got the yips. Valacek's pissed at him, but there's nobody else to replace him. Yeah, then he cuts his hand at the dinner the day before the morning of. This is my nightmare. And so he was like, please score a touchdown, please score a touchdown. They did. And then the Panthers came back and scored another touchdown.

So then he was just flipping shit when they when they had the field goal to win it. And he's like, look, you know, if I'm going to go out, I'm going to go out guns, firing. So I'd rather snap it over the guy's head entirely than just like dribble that doesn't get there. So, you know, you ended up crushing it. Perfect snap. The only one he needed. Rasm didn't really matter. Because it's not like Ken Walter was going to put a good punts together,

even if you did snap it to him. It's true. But he had played with Ken Walter in Cleveland as well. So they'd known each other from way back when. Oh, my God. Yeah. Because Beljack was the coach of them in like late 80s, early 90s. This is not recent. Yeah. Ridiculous times. Jesus. His brother is a NFL receiver, Todd Kitchen. I think the Cardinals.

Todd Kitchen, I recognize that name. Not many more, but. And then he worked as a college analyst and then retired after explaining that receivers may catch us with their hands because they can crest the ball he added. That's kind of gay, but hey, whatever. This is who is this? This is the one brother. Yeah, he.

God. It's like the guy for the. It's like speaking of Carolina, the hurricane's goalie. The emergency goalie was like the equipment manager. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to look it up right now. This is like recently. And he pitched like a shutout, basically, right?

He got into the game. Yeah. It was just like stonewalling whoever they're playing the blues or someone. I'll try and find it. Yeah, I remember that guy. Yeah, there's a lot of those just like stories that are under the radar that you don't even realize are happening. Yeah. I mean, because wasn't there a thing with the

Panthers running backs to remember Steven Davis went down in the Rams game and got hurt. And then who was the Sean Foster? Yes, the Sean Foster. That's right. It was always kind of the like change of pace back. Yeah, he's kind of like the the Kevin Falk of the Panthers, I would say. Yeah.

But like a third they were never quite lived up to the hype, but he had his moments. He had a sweet TD in this game. I thought so. He had a like reaching over the pylon TD, didn't he? Yeah, we had one like we thought he out of down here and it's like two guys and then burst out of it and yeah, yeah, they showed a stat where the Patriots hadn't given up a touchdown all season of more than 30 yards

and they did it twice in this game. And that was one of them was that that the Sean Foster touchdown. Yeah, I mean, that was the character of that team. It was just like backs against the wall. Not everything is going to go right. We're not the best team in the field in a lot of games, but somebody's going to step up when needed and make a play. If they just didn't make one more play enough in this game, Bobby.

I mean, what will haunt me forever is, I mean, at the end of the day. If John Casey doesn't kick that that ball out of bounds, I mean. I felt like momentum was swinging our way. Like, I'll take that game to overtime any fucking day. I'll roll that. I would have rolled the dice on overtime in that game any fucking day. Come on, John Casey, come on, seriously. You kicked it out of bounds and gave Brady 30 yards to go.

God damn it. This is Tom Brady. He was going to do that anyway. That's that's probably true. Yeah, I mean, he's coming from but not then. Yes, in in 2015, sure. But 2003, Tom Brady, not in that game. That's not what that game felt like.

I don't know. I think the Rams have the same way. Yeah, and I think they cut their fucking throats in double overtime. That's true. But I mean, you can say that, but like the Patriots had driven down the fields the last three for Tom Brady, like 350 yards passing at that point. Yeah, guys, we can agree to disagree on this. Both teams were picking up yards and chunks at this point.

We can agree to disagree. I'm just saying falling apart. I'm just saying that game should have gone to overtime and I liked our chances. Yes, it played a lot over time games that year. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, you say that, but the Patriots also coming into this, they were what, 16 wins in a row or something. And they had won all of those games, except for one, by less than seven points.

So both really interesting teams that knew how to win close. The teams were like more similar than they appeared at face value for sure. Absolutely. Kind of that strong veteran defense almost felt like with in the past, overcoming all those injuries. Yeah, yeah, that was incredible early this year. We're that's right. Yeah, they were some down there still just reeling off wins.

There was some stat where the Patriots were leading the league in most different starters with like 40 something. And they showed a list of all the other teams who had led the league in starters. And I think the most wins on the season was four. For those teams that that suffered that many injuries and had to start so many players and the Patriots went. What would they go this season? I don't even remember.

Well, 14 and two. So just like figuring out how to plug guys in and it all worked out. But I think the one guy that they couldn't plug in play was Rodney Harrison, actually, who this was one of my memorable moments from the game where he was. He may it's in the fourth quarter at some point. Oh, it was on that last Carolina touchdown drive where Rodney made the tackle of the running back

and apparently like broke his arm or like separated shoulder, something like that. I can't remember what exactly the injury was. Greg, do you remember? I do not remember. I just remember him being in the sling after the game, but so he broke his arm, but Caroline was running the no huddle. So he couldn't get off the field. So he was then in coverage on the next play on, I think it was the tight end

and they threw it to him. The tight end caught the ball and he had to make the tackle out of bounds with a broken arm and still managed to make the play. And then just kind of like laid there out of bounds, which is like one. And then I remember there was some camera shot of him coming out like after the confetti was falling in a sling. And he's just like covered in confetti and he's like crying

because it's Rodney Harrison and he just runs on emotion. So, but as soon as he went out after that, the Panthers are just like, oh, well, whoever that new guy is, which I don't even recognize who he was, like number 29 or something. They couldn't even figure out who he was on the game sheet. But he was he was not good. And the pages just picked him apart with Ricky Pearl of all people. Ricky Pearl, another key member of that scrappy team.

Yeah, I mean, and he was he was one of those guys who always seemed to show up against the Patriots and Super Bowls because this was actually going to be one of my bests at the end. But I'll put it in here because it fits. He in this game caught the tying touchdown on the time of game up with less than two minutes left. And he also did the exact same thing when he was a member of the Rams in Super Bowl 36.

He was the one that caught the tying touchdown with under two minutes left. And then the Patriots did what they did then as well. Yeah. So, Ricky Pearl, I think he may have also been the guy at the beginning of the Ram Super Bowl tonight, a dynasty is born. Yes, he is. Yeah, just didn't realize which team he was talking about at the time. He must hate the Patriots. He really must. Yeah. Also, well, because he's just next

to Ricky Pearl on my list here of Panthers players. Bobby, do you have any feelings one way or another on Jermaine Wiggins? Nope, zero feelings. He was one of those guys that floated in the background for a while. Another guy who like always kind of flash like, maybe he'll be kind of good. And nope. Yeah, because he was a former Patriot, and that's how we felt about him too. And now he's like on one of the sports radio morning shows.

Wiggy. Good for him. He is unlistable. I didn't know he was in this game. For the Panthers, yeah. Yeah, he had a couple of catches like right the end there. Yeah, he was on it. Hurdles, Jean Wilson, Greg's boy. Yeah, Wilson did not have a good game in this game.

Sorry to say, Greg. It's OK. No comment. It doesn't sound OK. He doesn't. No comment. Fair enough. Because he's the one that got beat on the 85 yard touchdown. Oh, yeah, the longest play in Super Bowl history.

Is it still? Yes, I looked it up. No. Longest play from scrimmage. It has to be because I remember the touchdown, I guess. It is. No, because the Patriots, their Super Bowl in 97 gave up like a 99 yard kick return to whoever that Green Bay Packers returner was. Desmond Howard.

Desmond Howard, yeah. OK, kick returns. As Greg has said, special teams aren't really a part of the game, so that doesn't count. True. Yeah, it was definitely the longest two field ball or another. At the time it happened.

It was what? It was the longest something at the time it happened. It is the longest touchdown pass or run in Super Bowl history. Yeah. Against like one of the historic best defenses in the National Football League. Well, DeLonge didn't even complete 50 percent of his passes. No. No, he started off terribly in this game.

I think I was trying to keep track. They didn't actually have positive offensive yards with five minutes left in the second half. In the second quarter. Yeah, the beginning of the game was brutal. Yeah, he was one for nine for one yard with two minutes left in the second quarter and like three sacks or something like that.

So he had a negative passing yards. Classic Jake Dillon. Yeah. So I mean, what did he finish with? He finished with probably a few hundred yards. Oh, yeah. 23. Twenty yards over 20 yards per completion. Sixteen completions for three hundred and twenty three yards.

Jesus, three touchdowns. Four sacks, one of which was a fumble, which he lost. You got to think the man can live with that. That's that's how he showed up in the Super Bowl. You got to think. You know, he's got forces in Lafayette in Louisiana somewhere and he's his mind is at peace. You would have to think so, yeah.

Because I mean, they didn't have really any offense going there. They couldn't get the running game going either. Stephen Davis was you had a bad day. No, and they were they were a really run oriented team. Right, exactly. They kept trying it. Stephen Davis, thirteen carries, forty nine yards with the longest of twenty one. So, yeah, not not great.

And then to Sean Foster, three carries, forty three yards, but one of those was a thirty three-yard touchdown. Yeah, this was really before the era when you're tossing a lot of passes to your your running back. Yeah. So it was it was mainly Jake DeLome to Steve Smith and Moussin Muhammad. Can we talk about Antoine Smith stat line, by the way, twenty six carries. Twenty six carries, eighty three yards of the touchdown touchdown.

Hell, yeah, one in this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was sneaky good in this game. He was, yeah, the Patriots running game was actually because it started off real slow. But Antoine Smith, again, we've said in the last couple of weeks, is running like it's 2001 again, because he has been like the wheels had fallen off through the regular season. I don't know if they were saving them or what, but he was actually running it

relatively effectively in this game, especially against that D line, too. Everyone thought they were absolutely just couldn't run it all year. Yeah. And then the bansers have a monster D line. For him to get eighty three yards in a touchdown. Huge. Yeah. Quick question on what you boys thought about our Lord and Savior, Troy Brown in this game. Oh, big Troy Brown game.

You know, this is a big game for both my favorite receivers, Troy and David Givens. David, David Givens had a good game. I mean, Deion Branch had the numbers. Ten catches, one hundred forty three yards in the touchdown. Yeah, it didn't seem like Deion. Deion seemed like the third best receiver out there. Yeah. And the commentators were talking about how he was the he was Brady's new, like, favorite target.

Which everyone's like, you know, you'd expect it to be Troy Brown, but Brady says it's Deion Branch because, you know, for whatever reason, he's small, but he's strong. And then you get to the last drive of the game and it's incomplete to Deion Branch. Brady to Troy Brown, Brady to Troy Brown, Brady to Troy Brown, Brady to Graham and then Brady to Branch. So yeah, well, you're just discounted in the most important play

of that drive is Brady to Branch. Yeah, that's true. Greg has got a good play. That's the game that won the Super Bowl. Yeah. But if you look at that play, all they're both on the same side, they were both wide open. So he could have hit the wide throw at the branch is his favorite play. You're going to say that open deeper down the field.

Brady's Brady's favorite player is not dictated by Brady. It's it's up to him who is favorite players. And he told the commentators it was Branch. Yeah. And I disagree. And you disagree with Brady as to who Brady's favorite players. Well, I think about Branch's stat lines in his two Super Bowls here, back to back years. Yeah, that's crazy.

Ten catches, one, four to three and a touchdown this one. And then he wins the MVP in the next one. Yeah. Yeah. I think he sets the record for catches in the next one. Isn't that what it is? Something like that in a Super Bowl. Yeah. But there's there's some good, good wide receiver play on both ends of the ball

really, like on both sides. Yeah, like that. Yeah, it was because usually you see the Patriots kind of spread the ball around. And Brady's favorite receiver is the open one. But in this one, it was pretty much all wide receivers, I thought it really was. You can do it like a lot of screen or any bubble screen together. It was all passes down the field. Yeah, which is very unusual. And it sounded like, and Bob, correct me if I'm wrong.

It sounds like the the Panthers relied on a lot of screens in the regular season as well, similar to the Patriots offense. Yeah, I think there were a lot of similarities. Like they were a running team and then I mean, they lived on. They made their money on play action and like Steve Smith, bailing them the fuck out, you know, and doing pulling out crazy shit. Yeah, so very similar. There's a summary I wrote down from the first quarter.

It was third and sixth and they ran the ball. And and Sim said, I know it's not exciting to watch, but it's kind of fun. And I was like, well, no, it's not exciting and it's not fun either. Oh, we go into the commentators. Also, presaging Phil Sims, eventually getting the ax for being fucking boring as hell. Yeah, he was pretty bad. I don't know. He called Julius Peppers being a beast. I mean, Julius Peppers is the second overall pick.

Yeah, it's not really a reach. I thought you would have been up about him roasting Bill Belichick's squib kick decision. He don't. That was a terrible decision. And he was that kick. He was pretty butter about that. Yeah, I'm sure you were too. I was too. Yeah, I was dumb.

You should take Belichick the task for that, dude. Yeah, I gave it to us. Give us give us the Greg Brown Belichick hate minute. Well, what was how much time was up? There was like 15 seconds left in the half. You just you just got up 14 to seven. The Panthers have been like absolutely dominated the whole half. But like the two minute warning, they had like zero total yards.

Yeah. The one was like one of nine up to that point. Like you had absolutely ship pumped them the whole half and it was 14 to seven. And for some reason, instead of just kicking it deep, they do this stupid squib kick, which gets returned to like midfield. One play later, it's a 50 yard field goal, and it's good. And then go without momentum. I think you're kind of glossing over the fact that that one play was just like

a run up the middle of the Patriots just did not defend. Well, if that play happens from your 20 yard line, it doesn't matter. Like, when does a kick ever get to the fucking 50 yard line? Let's just play the odds, play the numbers. It doesn't make any sense. Do your job, Belichick, as some would say. We've seen the Colts kick off to the Patriots in this exact situation and Bethel Johnson takes to the house. That's a good point, Andy.

So I think he is playing the numbers as long as that doesn't happen. We're OK. Field goal. Yeah. OK. We're still winning. You think he's OK with giving a field goal there? Probably not. But I think in the in the moment, that decision was the right decision because there's the least amount of chance of giving. All right, let's talk about the other big coaching decision here in this game. And I want to give Bobby's thoughts on this,

who was the Panthers going for two somewhat early in the fourth quarter because Phil Sims hated that. Sims hated it. I was like the first thing he said at the end of the game was like, well, there'll be second guessing that. I was like, yeah, he brought it back to shit on him again. So let's set it up, right? It's 1248 left in the fourth quarter.

The Sean Foster's sick-ass touchdown makes it 21-16. Yeah. Yeah, I think all three timeouts left. So it was a fair whole quarter to play. A lot of football left, yeah. Kicking it puts you down, what? Four, going for two gets you in within three. So they go for two and don't get it.

So they're down five. Correct. I mean, there's two schools of thought here. Like, there's the school of thought of like, don't go for two until you have to. But in the context of this game, I have mixed feelings. In the context of this game, I kind of liked it because I was just like, your point scoring opportunities have been really limited so far.

Maximize them, get within three. Hell yeah. So I think it made sense ultimately. That said, the other part of my brain says, motherfuckers, you don't have an offense to get a two-point conversion in this game. And they didn't. You weren't like this ain't Philly special.

You didn't have a play in your back pocket. And so it was maybe sort of like from a strategic standpoint, the right call, except you weren't equipped to win on it. So I don't know. Yeah, the play did not look good. Speaking of having a play in the pocket. Oh, I know. Great. Yeah.

That's the difference in the coaching staz, right? Is Belichick had a play for a two-point conversion when they guaranteed that they had practiced multiple times. Correct. Even though this was their first two-point conversion attempt of the entire season. And remembering that team and John Fox, I fucking guarantee the Panthers did not.

I had a question. Is this the first direct snap that Kevin Falk? Oh, no, no. They've been running this since the blood so days. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. You never read Andy's blog post? Yeah, there's a blog post about it. The evolution of a play.

Yeah, it's been around for ages and they always seem to break it out like when they need it the most. Yeah. And it was here. They did it in 2006 when they needed two points against the Chargers in the Marlon McCree, Troy Brown. Interception fumble game. They did it in the Falcon Super Bowl with James White.

They did it in 07, where they actually faked it. They snapped it to Brady. Brady pretended like it went over his head, even though he had the ball. And so they faked the run and then Brady threw a touchdown. So they've they've run this play a lot, but it's like it's that absolutely have to have this point play. Whereas I think beforehand, like back in the blood of the days,

they'd run it in midfield, just precious in giggles, which came off the heels of the variable touchdown. I think everybody associates this game with on some level. Yeah, I I still think this is my hot take for this game. Mike Vrable should have been Super Bowl MVP. He had two sacks. He had a strip sack, which set up the first page of touchdown and he caught a touchdown as a defensive player.

How do you not give him MVP? I agree just because it goes to the quarterback as a non-patriots fan. For some reason, Mike Vrable is one of the guys from that era that sticks out in my mind so much, maybe subconsciously because of this game. Yeah, and he caught what? Eight touchdowns in his career, something like that. Yeah, I think he had eight passes,

eight receptions on eight attempts for eight touchdowns. I bet the tight ends love that with like nine yards. But yeah, and they also I thought it was interesting. The commentators were talking about Mike Vrable saying, I think it was Afri caught the touchdown, maybe, that he aspires to be a coach someday and wants to go back to Ohio State and is hoping that they would give him a like assistant coaching job after he finished his playing.

Bayonette. And he said that if he ever was to become a coach, that if his team made the Super Bowl, he would cut off his penis. He did say that. I think that was later. Yeah, I mean, when did he say that? So I spent the two seasons ago. That was a thing.

Yeah, it's like I cut off my own dick to get to Super Bowl. Yeah, not said when he was 25 year olds. So no, no, two years ago as head coach of an NFL franchise. Yeah, as a young 12 year old boy, he no said. I really the Houston Oilers to the Super Bowl cut off my penis. And then, of course, they got renamed as the Titans. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, boy. Yes, do we want to do the commentator, Steve? I know you said you had some notes. I I've already said all of my notes. Really? Because I have one more. Phil Sims blaming Tyler for the blown coverage on the touchdown when it was a Sunday Samuel. Yeah, it definitely was.

I'm sure Greg was Greg was mad about that, but happy that he called out Bill Belichick for a shitty squib. Quick. Yeah, exactly. I know the one other quote that I had was Phil Sims saying, neither team is big on celebrating or trash talking. I'm thinking myself. Have you met Steve Smith and or Rodney Harrison? Like, that's there.

So you're protecting yourself on this game. What the fuck, dude? Like both of them, that's all they do is trash talk the entire fucking time. Greg Gumbel did call Adam Ventieri's game when he filled the line if he caught that, too. Oh, I missed that. What did he say? He's like, oh, maybe you'll have an opportunity to redeem himself and kick kick for the win.

Oh, yeah. That was before the Rebels TD. Yeah. All right, since we're not going to trash on the commentators, how about we trash on the referees? Because this was an ad fucking hockey league game made all about him. I didn't notice referees at all. I thought they were perfectly fine. Now, how many penalties were there was a shit on there was

New England, eight penalties for 60 yards. Carolina, 12 penalties for 73 yards. I'd say a good half of those were tiki tech. They were just like fucking ad hockey. They wanted to hear himself talk, wanted to be fucking major league baseball umpire, taking control of the game or like a fucking NBA basketball referee because this is the center of attention. I do vaguely remember there being periods of this game

that were frustrating with lots of penalties. Hey, I remember, I think it's just but hurt. No. Well, I mean, all right, let's go on. Let's go to the last one, the Detroit Brown offensive pass interference. You're going to tell me that was a legit call. There was one stretch where I was like, this is getting out of hand where they had a measurement three plays in a row and then called a challenge

after the third measurement. And like that was in the first quarter or the first half when the game was just a slog fest anyways and like three straight plays with the like, OK, come on, measure it out. And he's like, oh, not again. It's not exciting, but it's kind of fun to watch. Yeah, I mean, it is interesting too. Like, you know, surely after this is when the NFL

changed the illegal contact rule. Yes. And like that Panthers Eagles NFC championship got often cited as a game that caused them to change the rule when like. I mean, I haven't gone back and watched it, but it seems pretty clear that in retrospect, like the Panthers secondary, like absolutely fucking robbed the Eagles in that game and was just like, fuck them up at every moment. Yeah.

And that game was often cited as the one of the key exhibits for the NFL to like change the illegal contact rules. And it makes you wonder if in the immediate aftermath, there wasn't some sort of conversation about that shit. I think if that's exhibit A, then exhibit B is the Patriots' Colts game where the Patriots' defense just manhandled that Red Hot Colts offense. Yep.

And so, yeah, I think and that was the two what? Conference championship games, both of those. And so you basically have this defense. It's interesting, Ricky Manning had three picks in that game and Tyler Law had three picks in the past game. Oh, shit. It caused Ricky Manning, Tyler Law rule. God damn.

So this kind of like these two teams are very kind of parallel to each other, which makes sense why it was such a close scoring game. Are we I just going to ask, were we talking about the have them show at all? Yeah, I think we just look at this one. So I think it I want to say that this is the the triple XCist Super Bowl that was in the XXX range of Super Bowls because they no longer are

because this is 39. So XXX V 38. Yeah. So we're getting close to the fucking Timberlake, man. Yeah. So yeah, Greg, I kind of just assumed you had notes on this. It's just so audacious that they could even think to call this a wardrobe malfunction. She had a tassel around her nipple. So what are we talking about here?

I think she just wears those under her clothes without the intention of showing them. I have tassels on my nipple. Greg, can you milk me? People just like bought it, too. No one everyone was like, OK, wardrobe malfunction. Also trying to accomplish. I mean, the last line of the song is I'm going to have you naked by the end of this song.

Yeah. Come on, people. Come on, people. And then he grabs he grabs like a piece of clothing and right right in her breast area and pulls it. What what if it was if it didn't malfunction? What was supposed to happen? This is probably my defining memory of this as a kid, because we had Tivo and it had just got Tivo.

Oh, thank God. We were like, we were like, what did I just watch? Wow, this thing is the best. We just wanted that shit like a million times. So I was at college watching this, too. And we were all like the main common room and we like wheeled the TV in because this was back in the days before like flat screens and shit. So we had the TV like we wheeled somebody's TV in whoever the biggest one.

And we're all watching it. And so it was halftime and like everybody else left to like, you know, go pee or grab some food or more drinks or whatever. And so I'm sitting there watching this thing by myself alone in this like empty room. And that happens. I'm like, oh, did that. Did did I just see Boob on live TV and I had nobody to validate it with me. Like, I don't know. And this is like kind of before like live internet's happening.

So you can't go on Twitter and find out you can't go on Twitter and like ask people. So you're like, I think it's a boob on TV. And so everybody came back. I'm like, guys, you miss it. There was boobs on TV at the halftime show. They're like, yeah, go fuck yourselves. Wow. We're so we're sticking shit already. Like, yeah, what a strange moment.

A viral moment before viral moments were things. And like, I just remember it as like it kind of happened. And then there was like this pause and then they like the lights went out. Yeah. And it was just like, wait, everyone has looked at them. Each other and be like, yeah, just like any one. Did I just see that? Or was that nipple? No, no, the question is obviously staged. Right. But how far up did it go?

Like, obviously Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake knew it was happening. Did the show producers know it was happening? Did the NFL know it was happening? The people that had commercial. They could have told Phil Sins and you have no clue. It's to quote Phil Sins in this game. You're allowed to push him around every now and then. That's what I do up here in the booth.

That's true. Oh, yeah. Maybe talking about boobies. He knows. He knows about, you know, he knew he was coming. Fucking Phil Sims. Oh, boy. Yeah. I mean, I think. Well, he moved, though. I got to give him props, you know, I think. I think if they just if they were just if they just leaned into it and they were like, yeah, you saw what you saw.

What do you like that shit? We'll put that on the Super Bowl for you. I would have loved it. But the fact that they immediately tried to walk it back and be like, no malfunction, it's like, come on, you can't like commit and then backtrack immediately. Yeah. Back then they probably. It's not with a little nipple. It's it's it's very European.

Just be like, you guys aren't cultured enough. You know what it is. The world is ready for that in 2000. It was 2004, Greg. Yeah. Still, let's not pretend Justin Timberlake didn't tuck that shit right onto his resume. This was this was building a brand before building a brand was a thing. I've got a great point here.

Yeah. Although, Greg, you know, you know why why they didn't. Cop to it. It's because it was very naughty. Very naughty. Our boy Justin Timberlake, Andy, our boy Justin Timberlake. Sometimes a naughty boy, he is. He's it's been back in the news because the Britney Spears documentary.

Apparently, it doesn't shine very good light on Timberlake. So he is he's apologized for both that and the Janet Jackson. I'd heard that. Yeah. Apparently, he said he was trying to compete with. Madonna, Christine Aguilera and Britney Spears kissed at the MTV Music Awards. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that. I mean, four little years there.

This is consistent with how we perceive Mr. Timberlake. We just it would be great if he could just be honest about these things. Uh huh. Yeah, I agree. By stop stop trying to present yourself as like kind of wholesome. You'd like that's not how you are. Yeah, right. He never quite got the line right between am I a bad boy or am I America's sweetheart? No, man. You were he couldn't make his decision, I think.

Yeah, he wanted the best of both worlds. Well, I think we're he would have thrived on tic-tac. For sure. Oh, there's still time. There's still time. Also, this is in Houston. And then they did a NASA tribute in the pregame is the one year anniversary of the Columbia disaster. One year. Yes. Wow.

Well, way to bring it down right before I was going to segue into that halftime show, not being the sexiest thing to happen in this game. You say about Tom Brady. No, actually here, I will share my screen so you gentlemen can can share in this with me. And you're saying this is sexier than Janet Jackson's boob? It is, yes. This is that right after right before the halftime kickoff,

there was this gentleman who dressed up as a referee, got to midfield and then took off the vast majority of his clothes and went streaking. And then our good friend of the podcast, Matt Shadham, it's quite possibly the best tackle of the game. He bodies him. Yeah, this game, Matt Shadham with the neck roll at this point, like the the arm sleeves and everything, just absolutely.

The best viewer when you hit the turf, the view from the end zone's best. He's like, oh, no, I give up, I give up and Matt Shadham. Oh, God, we don't give up in this game. Well, yeah, Matt Shadham is hitting that paint. This guy's going to get him. And then just kind of like walks out to be clear. So like this like 45 year old guy, one thing and pretty overweight.

In a jockstrap and a ref's hat. And that's it. Running down the field is sexier than Jan Jackson. No, the hit was sexier. Oh, oh, the hit part of this. Oh, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, he got he got fucked up. Yeah, yeah, they had like the medics on the field, I think.

And so can we also can we also just talk? I mean, you guys have been rewatching old games, but yes. So this is probably your yeah, I'm just like, man, pre high death. What the fuck is that shit? It might as well have been 19 come along watching that footage. Yeah, actually, I mean, when we yeah, when we first started, they didn't have the yellow first downline and it was so hard to watch. You're like, wait, yeah.

And they didn't have like the the score bug up all the time. It only showed like when the play was starting. Yeah, you get to be like, where are they on the field? What down is it? I don't even know what's going on right now. So hard to follow us. Yeah, very weird. Just watching that highlight.

I was just like, I was distracted by the the pixels. Fucking yeah, archaic presentation, like the Monday night footballs and you know what it is. The balls, they always have a little bit better quality than the regular season shit. Yep. It's I think it's like watching football as like my wife, Kelly watches it where there's no perception of like, what down is it? How much time's left?

But like, oh, exciting play. I'll watch that and then just like drift off for a bit. Oh, exciting play. I'll watch that, you know, like that's her fan experience, which is similar to like pre yellow line and clock and shit. Yeah, that's a good way of doing it. Yeah, every play has like less significance when it's like that, because it's like, I don't even know. Could be a first sound, couldn't be. I don't know.

Are we winning? I don't know. I don't know if we're winning. I have to wait till they bring the chains on the field to know what's happening. It's true. Yeah. Now, it's it's been almost like relearning how to watch some of these little football games because like, oh, fuck, I actually have to pay attention to like how far I got. Is that a first down? And nobody knows. Yeah, but they're starting to get better.

We're getting closer to high def, I think, in 2003. Another another interesting little anecdote from this game, the kick returner and like third string running back is none other than Rod Smart. He hate me from XFL glory. I thought I recognized that name, but I couldn't place it. That was he. He hate me. Damn, he gave me a sweet.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, another like character on this Panthers team. Yeah, he was not having a success returning kicks in this game. I will say, you don't care. Well, no, I don't think he got back to the 20. Troy did really well. Troy. Yeah. So Troy Brown was returning punts and then all of a sudden he wasn't

and then he was again and then there was no more punts. That's how this game seemed to go. He got that knee in the like through the face mask early. Yeah, I don't know if he broke his nose, but he he came back on the field and just had like the tissue just wedged up in there. He's playing like that. Yeah, that's a sweet. That's what he's trying to sort of trotting out there with a lot of stuff

of his nose. Yeah. You can see the red starting like leak through it. Jesus Christ. Another interesting he hate me note is that upon retirement, Jake DeLome got into like owning horses and shit like that. And one of the horses that he he raced, he had named she hate me. OK, so you mean the horse hated him?

I don't know. It was a reference to that. And apparently spike. Like a difficult horse that just like bit him all the time. So he he she hate me. There was also players in the XFL that were playing against he hate me's team that put on their name plate. I hate he and the other guy put I hate he too.

The number two or the letter TOO TOO. Oh, my God. Yeah. Imagine taking yourself seriously, having I hate he too on your jersey, which is a response to a teammate's who's response to an opponent. But what's great is like thinking about this through our modern lens of like. This is the shit people do on Twitter now. But in these days, these were like getting jerseys made with this. Yeah.

That was the only way you could like get your name out was by like putting something ridiculous in your chairs. Yeah, like these were guys trying to do the equivalent. And certain kind of certain amount of characters was a thing. Yeah, you got like 15 characters to fucking get your name out there. You know, which honestly is probably the that is the defining piece of the XFL. You know, XFL he hate me is probably like the most. Yeah, that XFL MVP Tommy Maddox actually starting some games for the

the other part I remember of the XFL clearly was the inside of the coin flip. They just put the ball in the middle. Oh, the kick off rule. That was the greatest thing to guys would run at each other. Yeah, I'm the guy like Tora's ACL. I'm like the first one. Yeah. Opening game. Oh, this this leads to injuries.

Shocking. No one predicted this. Yeah. This is awesome, though. Yeah, it was a good idea. Yeah, like we should bring this back. Oh, yeah, we did the bomb, too. Boy, you all do best and worse. Yeah, sure.

So, Bobby, growing up in the Brown House, we at dinner time, we have to do best and worse, go on the table and give our best of the of the day and the worst of the day. So we've brought that over to the podcast for the game. So you're more than welcome to participate, but we're putting you on the spot. So if you have any best and worst just of either the Super Bowl or this Panther season in general, feel free. Thankfully, your mother has, you know,

spent enough time with with her grandchildren that I'm very familiar with. Best and worst, we say Bobby knows about best and worse. Best and worse, best and worse. I mean, enduringly, the worst for me was the kickoff going out of bounds in this game. It's the thing I remember is the biggest, like, regret. What the fuck moment? Yeah, because, like, I just remember at the end of that game,

like tying it up in the end. It was a moment that felt like it felt like the whole season. It was just like, this is it, a game we shouldn't win, but we're going to have a chance to win. And the kick out of bounds was just such a fucking punch in the stomach from a from a guy who otherwise had just been so stalwart. Like John Casey kicked it out of bounds on kickoff.

Like what? Yeah. Yeah. So that was my worst. Like, I'll never forget that. I think best. Best for this game was was definitely the Mohamed Touchdown. There was just such a like, fuck you moment. Um, because it was third and 10. Yeah, it was 15.

And the first two passes had to look real bad. The Patriots defensive line were like ragdolling Deloam all over the place. And Deloam tossed that ball just like up like that shit rainbowed so high and so hard. But I think that that was my best. Yeah, the best for the game. I mean, I'll still just say, like, I'll go back a second.

And we talked about it briefly, but that that Rams game is my favorite Panthers game of all time. And I watched it at a friend's house. And it was a. I mean, it was like happening over like Christmas break, I think, because it was that time of year, you know what I mean? So I was home and my my buddies from home who were Panthers fans were all over there.

We're at this house and like this house was like a family. They had four kids. And it was like it was like literally called at the game house growing up because his parents when I was like game nuts on Friday, all these fucking kids over there, right, like literally like 30 kids over there. And we go over there and we're like in a back bedroom watching this game. And these people are not football fans. This is like we're going to play like board games, right?

And like Dungeons and Dragons. So like we're like watching a Panthers game hardcore in the other room. And I'm like losing my fucking shit. I'm like totally losing my shit. And the thing I remember from after that game was. Oh, you know what it was? I was about to leave after that game to drive back to Davidson. And the oldest son in that family, Scott, went there with me.

He was a year older than me. So I was going to give him a ride back. And I just remember their mom, Maxine, who was like this really nice like soft spoken woman. I just remember vividly her looking at me in the living room. And like, I've known this woman my whole life. I've been around her a hundred times, but I probably had like three direct conversations with her ever.

And she just looks at me and she just goes, she clearly heard my like insanity from the other room and just goes, I really love you. But if the Panthers had lost this game, I was not going to let my son drive back with you. I was awesome. I'm Maxine, classic Maxine, classic Maxine always. All right, well, my best is learning that my brother in law plays onions and dragons. Listen, we can talk about that later. All right, a lot of a lot of things happened on game night.

OK, D&D is legit, my friend. I never played, but I'm very intrigued by it. Greg, it's it's a I've done it before. You got you got to have somebody running. I need a dungeon master. Yeah, right. Honestly, this this podcast is too much of a commitment. I can't imagine a Dungeons and Dragons. I feel like it's going to even more.

Yeah, you need somebody who like knows what they're doing or runs. Oh, so you need somebody who like preps a whole like eight pages of show notes every week, edits the episodes, runs the website. So what I'm saying is I don't have enough time because I'm doing this podcast. Later, I can introduce you guys to Bill, who used to work as a assistant chair for Don Dunn, got laid off in the pandemic. And now it's just a full time Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master. I meet with him on Wednesdays every three weeks.

Don't worry about it. Oh, no, I've got a few friends like that, too. They wasn't worried about a little mini they 3D print their their people. So when you're in person, you can you can be your own little guy and they set up all sorts of yeah. Good times. So is that your worst or your best? And I can't remember that was one of my best. No, my actual best for this game was

Deon Branch catching his first ever career playoff touchdown. I just happened to be in the zero ball and happened to be a long one, actually, was one that kind of kicked off the. I know his his was the the play action one early. So that was good. And then my worst was Reliance Stadium as a stadium. I thought the grass was like the turf itself seemed pretty bad. Like nobody could stand their feet for the whole game.

And I'm going to blame the stadium for Adam Mineteri's misses because he has only missed up until this point for field goals indoors. All four of them in the stadium because the other two were against the Houston Texans when they're playing in Reliance Stadium earlier this this season season before whenever that was. Whatever, go ahead and blame all blame all David Karsak's on the turf.

Whatever. Hey, you know what else we can blame on this turf? John Casey kicking the ball out of bounds on the kick. There we go. See, there you go. We're just no double standards. All right. Yeah, the commentators were wrong and the rest really fucked that up. Yeah, but really it was it was the stadium.

The whole the whole thing was a joke except for the two teams. That's a good segue into my best, actually. All right, give it to me. So I was watching this and there's so many plays in this game that remind me of other big Patriots plays that happened either before or after. I'm listening. So the advent of Terry game winning

field goal very similar to the one against the Texans earlier in the year, which if you're going to go back, actually, watch one of the games from the season that you don't maybe not remember. That's a good one. You think? Yeah. The Texans game. Yeah, that was a close game the whole way through. And when all the almost the whole went over time, that was the longest game in Tom Brady's career.

That's true. I remember correct. I don't remember being a good game. The rabble strip sack looked exactly like high tower. Oh, it's a Falcons. Yeah. That was like just mirror image flipped on the other side of the field. But the same gets like he's rear and back to throw gets him right in the arm. He just drops it on the ball. It just chops the great.

It was a coverage by Tyrone Poole on Steve Smith, where he pulls the the Steph play. And he looks back for Gilmore. Yeah, that's it down with the offhand. Which is great, because I think that was the only play Tyrone Poole made the entire game. Yes, he had that thick Steph Gilmore looking one. He did. He did. There was a wiggins sighting of him hurtling people like in the Raiders game. True. Yeah.

There's the direct snap to Kevin Falk, which looked a lot like the James White one, you know. So I was just getting a lot of flashbacks to other peaches games in this one. It's like a maligation of all those other big plays sort of in this one, but just different versions of it that you don't actually quite remember. Those plays like you had to pull one play out. This is probably the rabble touchdown.

Yeah, which, again, is also reminiscent of Super Bowl next year in 2004. Yeah. Yes, it's true. It's a touchdown. So that's a great. That's a great best. What do you got for your worst? Tom Brady's interception in the end zone. Like he's been doing that this season a few times, mostly against the Colts, where they drive down all

and he's ready to put his foot on the team's throat and just like end it as a contest. And he throws that interception like deep in enemy territory or in the end zone, give them life. And wasn't that right before the the big. Yeah, that was right right before the eighty five yard Muhammad, eighty five. I touched it. Yeah. Yeah.

Like literally, yeah, they're inside the what the nine or something. Yeah, three plays inside the ten yard line. You throw an interception on the goal line. Yeah. And you're up, you know, twenty one, ten at that point. You go twenty eight, ten with the seven, forty eight left in the field. Well, at least you're cruising. Yeah. So yeah, that was that was a bad one. I blocked it out of my mind and even write it down.

Fuck it is also sort of similar to not really. But the pick sixty three in the Falcons game, you know, we're like, God damn it, we just finally getting something going. Yeah. All right, Greg, what you got from a boy? So going back to just want to mention this, the Hurricanes goalie. I found the article on it hilarious. So this guy is they're playing in Toronto. That's he is like he's the emergency goalie,

but he he lives and works in Toronto for like their HL team. And he's sometimes subs in and practices with Toronto. The Maple Leafs as just like their third goalie during practice. So I think he's the emergency goalie for both teams. I think that's how it works. Yeah, logistics work out. So they they both the starters for the Hurricanes get injured. This guy's a forty two year old.

He's the Zamboni driver for an HL team. That's right. He comes off the bench. He's wearing a Maple Leafs goalie face mask, the helmet. And he comes in and plays against the Maple Leafs for the Hurricanes, gives up goals on his first two shots and then settles down. It stops his last eight and ends up winning the game for the Hurricanes.

That's amazing. Yeah, and they're making a Disney movie about it. Nice, as they should. So pretty cool story. My best, I think, Vrable, you kind of stole it earlier, but he was he I think he had a case for MVP, you know, two sacks, force fumble, tackling for loss and a touchdown. Pretty impressive game.

Yeah, my worst. Did not that they'd know in retrospect, but the all the fawning they kept doing over Jerry Richardson, every time they showed him in the box, it's kind of like cringy at this point. Yeah, change the culture and how he would do anything to win. It's like, well, this is true. They did that cut right before the kick where they cut to Robert Kraft and he's sitting there holding hands

with people next to him, irons right there. And I was like, oh, and then they cut to Jerry Richardson. He's sitting by himself, legs crossed, arms crossed, just looking so pissed off. Arms crossed across that like big old gut of his. Yeah, he's a weirdly shaped man. Sometimes he had like a resting bitch face anyways, and he looked even more pissed off there. Yeah. Yeah, you want to hear the for any of those

that never read up on what happened? Obviously, he was forced to sell the team. So this is from the article I was reading Friday was Jean's day when most staffers of the Panthers team offices would wear them to work. The female employees knew what that meant as a team's owner. Jerry Richardson made his rounds on his way to a spacious office. He would he would ask women to turn around so he could admire their backsides. Then in his in his rolling southern drawl,

he'd offer comment drawing from a store of one liners. He'd recycle each week among those in heaviest rotation. Show me how you wiggle to get those jeans up. I bet you had to lay down on your bed to fit into those jeans. Did you step into those jeans or did you have to jump into them? Oh, my God. So the cringy is creepy as all fucking man. Shit, but phase right now is classic.

Very naughty. Yeah, show me how you wiggle. Imagine a fucking billionaire team owner saying that to someone in your presence. I mean, who wiggles just like jiggling down the fucking hallway and selfie. Yeah, he's wiggling to get his own fucking. So I'm saying. You know, some personal experience, what it takes. Just get there.

They're expertly hemmed to fit his gut precisely. So watching Phil Sims and Greg Gumbel like fawn over him during a stupid goal is just like who? Yeah, that's my worst. Fair enough. Who's the owner now? David Tepper, he's another billionaire. He seems to be doing good things. Program. Yeah. Bobby comments.

I mean, I'm pretty disassociated at this point. My read on him is. Like he's cut from the like ambitious entrepreneur cloth. I did look like Jerry Richardson in those seats, but OK. All right. Well, this has been yet another successful season. Bobby, thank you for joining us. Indeed. Right. Steve, Greg, thank you for joining me on this journey again.

Greg, thanks for watching the game. Yeah, thanks for watching this game. Steve, thank you for thanking me. Greg, thank you for thanking me for thanking you. You're welcome. And mom for listening. Sometimes you want for listening. Shout out, mom, mom. I love you for everything. Yeah. And so this wraps up the 2003 NFL season.

We'll be back soon with the start of the 2004 season, when eventually we'll probably see the Patriots lose one day. Wagon keeps rolling, baby. It's been a while. I think we're 16 wins in so far. If only Donovan McNabb didn't get tired. He had an upset tummy. OK, he had some bad shellfish.

Yeah, that's not what Terrell Owen said. I mean, maybe you shouldn't have Fred Exit. Should have got a fresh. Hey, but we'll see you next season on the Patriots' Dianesey podcast. But until then, we'll see you later. Later.