Patriots Dynasty Podcast - 2004 Week 2: Patriots at Cardinals

Episode Date: June 15, 2021

The Patriots traveled to the Valley of the Sun to face off against the 109° heat and the Arizona Cardinals. The Brown brothers are joined by a Cardinals fan to talk about Emmitt Smith's final days, Tedy Bruschi's Sports Illustrated cover, and this early season AFC/NFC matchup.Show Notes:Tedy Bruschi's SI Cover: https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MDMzNDg4MzU4ODc2NTQ0/desertswarm2.jpgDon't forget to text us your thoughts on the Dynasty Hotline! Let us know what you think about this game or anything else. [phone]Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/patriots-dynasty-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Christine Brown, and while I have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty, you have the choice not to. My sons sometimes say some naughty things when they're trying to be funny, but really, they're just being stupid. You still want to listen? Go right ahead. I am not your mother. All right, welcome back to the Patron Stylency podcast, week two of the 2004 season. Uh, not going to lie, this was one of the games I just had no memory of, and rewatching it, you can kind of see why. Um, but we have with me today, Steve Brown, the best brother, maybe? In podcast terms, yes, I would say the best brother. Greg Brown is, um, babysitting,

uh, repeat, uh, guest, guest Connor. Yeah, we'll just call him Connor. Yeah. Um, so he's babysitting so he can't be here for this. Um, but Steve, you have brought a friend along. Yeah, I keep finding friends from other teams. So we have, uh, our buddy Jared joining us. He's a big Arizona Cardinals fan. So he's the proud. Yeah, he is the big Arizona Cardinals fan. The only one I know. He's shocking. Well, Jared, thanks for joining us. Um, yeah, it's a pleasure to kind of step outside of, you know, you know, your comfort zone and join another team's podcast. This will be a first for me. So excited to get into the weeds with you and explain to Pat's nation that we're not the biggest joke of a franchise that everyone thinks we are. Oh, we're in the same division

as the bills. So we, we're on your side on that one. Okay, there you go. You should see Bill's fans right now. They are living their best life because they won the AFC East for the first time in 20 years. Yep. And they don't know what to do with it. It's fantastic. I'm sure there's a comp to how us in Phoenix are as Suns fans about how we just defeated the Lakers in the first round of the playoffs. And I'm sure Lakers fans are looking at us very similarly, similarly to how you guys look at Bill's fans. So I kind of empathize a little bit with them. But everyone in Boston is happy about that. So go Phoenix, go Suns, go everybody. Go everybody else. Yeah. Nice. All right. So, um, Jared, just to get an idea of, I guess, how did you become a Cardinals fan?

Well, it's a question on my mind. Yeah. Well, to start, I'm born and raised in Phoenix. Um, and the Cardinals arrived from St. Louis when I was two years old. They came to the Valley of the Sun, played at Sun Devil Stadium. My parents, big football fans, my mom grew up in Chicago. So she was, we were coming off a few years past, a few years ahead of the Cardinals coming to Arizona. We watched the Chicago Bears in the one of the greatest, you know, seasons ever from a football team. And then, um, my dad is from New York, um, but was not Giants or Jets fan. He had a lot of family in Miami. So you guys won't be pleased to know that he's, he actually was a, a Dolphins fan. Um, or Giants fan. What do you mean? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think

it is. I think it's way better personally. But, um, so, you know, a lot of us in Arizona, still to this day, there isn't really a true, you know, contingent of people who are from Phoenix. There's just, you know, my generation and younger is really the first, you know, full fledged, you know, bigger population of people who are actually from the Phoenix or from Arizona, like Phoenix area. So you got to have a hodgepodge of random people that'll come through. So I'm sure you guys, when you watch this game back, you heard how many New England Patriots fans were in Sun Devil Stadium that day. That was like that every single week of the season. And so the Cardinals moved into their new stadium. But how did I become a Cardinals fan? I was, you know,

born and raised in Arizona. My dad and mom were big football fans and they jumped in on season tickets immediately because they were NFL fans. Um, and, um, they, they stuck with it. I grew up going to those games in Sun Devil Stadium. I will say that this game in particular being 89 degrees in September, like talk about like golden opportunity for the Patriots. To give you some perspective, we had, uh, we set a record last year for most consecutive days, over 110 degrees in Phoenix last year. I know, right? And it bled into October of last year. So it's, so for it to be 89 degrees in September for the Patriots, it was basically like a nice little vacation. Oh, 109 on the field, unseasonably cool. No, really though, like that was a thing. Like,

like you'd have guys passing out like on the sidelines, because when you were kicking off at like two o'clock on a Sunday at Sun Devil Stadium, and it was outside, it was a, you know, 105 degrees out on the field with no roof or no way to hide from the sun. It was, it would touch down to like 125, 130, and they were full pads. Like, it's just brutal. So, and of course, the Cardinals are wearing their, they're all whites, which they wore white at home all the time, which used to piss Cowboys fans off because, you know, the Cowboys prefer to wear white. Um, but, um, so yeah, so I grew up the same thing, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they, just to help with the heat. So, um, I'm one of the few, the proud local born and raised in Phoenix. I am extremely loyal to, uh,

local teams and, um, and up until, you know, maybe the last decade, the Cardinals didn't really give a lot to root for. Um, but actually to give you a little launching pad into this game in this season, the draft class going into this season, easily the best draft class in the history of the Phoenix slash Arizona Cardinals. And I would argue maybe a top 50 draft class ever in NFL history. Uh, we could have that debate for another day, but you're looking at, you're looking at, you know, four guys, three guys that made multiple Pro Bowls, four guys that got big time contracts, a plug and play starting center, uh, right out of the gates. So it was, it was, it was, it was kind of a launch pad for the core team that made it to their first Super Bowl, you know,

several years later against the Steelers. Right. So because this was, uh, the Larry Fitzgerald draft. Yeah, it was. It was. This whole class was that because they were talking about how they skipped over Rivers and Rothesburger to draft Fitzgerald. Right. Yeah. So that's going to be my question. Yeah. How do you feel about that? So there's a whole story behind this. Um, if you, if you want to go back to the week 17, the year before the Cardinals were playing against the Minnesota Vikings and the Vikings, if they win, they're in the playoffs. If they lose, they somehow are out. The Cardinals had literally nothing to play for other than if they lose, they get the number one pick and they can draft Eli Manning. And at the time you guys remember what Peyton Manning was

in the NFL, because you guys had the rivalry going, getting Peyton's, getting Peyton's brother was a big deal. And so Josh McCown and his first, you know, opportunity really in that stretch of games to be a starter, um, the Cardinals stay around and they end up throwing the, uh, the Hail Mary to Nate Poole in the back of the end zone, the force outplay to win the game. It knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs. It basically ended the Culpeper Moss era in Minnesota. Um, because what Moss shortly later went over to Oakland before he went and played with you guys. And then, you know, Dante Culpeper was never the same. So it basically ended that great stretch of Vikings teams. I was actually at that game and it was very, it was very conflicting because

everyone there, everyone, like, like even the Vikings fans that were trying to talk smack to us all game, we're just like, we don't really care because we're going to get Eli and then we'll beat you next year. You know, like, so what transpires is they lose the number one pick and which in the most Cardinals fashion, they would pull out a remarkable game ending Hail Mary play. But the results of it isn't to go anywhere or do anything with it. It was actually had an adverse effect. But if you remember correctly, even if they got the number one pick, you know, Eli Manning didn't want to play for San Diego. San Diego had the number one pick in the draft that year. And there was that big deal that they wanted to swap with the Giants, um, because the Manning family

wasn't going to play in San Diego. Well, if he wasn't going to play in San Diego, he sure as hell wasn't going to play in Phoenix. Right. So, so the way I look at it is, um, yeah, missing out on Eli because of a Hail Mary ended up being unfortunate. Phillip Rivers ended up having a phenomenal career. But Larry Fitzgerald is, is going down as the greatest athlete in the history of Arizona sports. And, and maybe that's not saying much for some, but he's one of the greatest wide receivers ever to suit it up. And in fact, you could argue that if he actually had a, a competent quarterback for a good chunk of his career, um, he would be smashing Jerry Rice's records right now. Um, he's not that far off from some of them, but, but if he had had actual,

not Kevin Cobb throwing to him for a number of years and all the, the who's, who's of quarterbacks that aren't named Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer, you could argue that he would be smashing Jerry Rice's records and could be going down as the greatest wide receiver ever to play the game. So I absolutely no regrets. I think if you asked any Cardinals fan, they would be thrilled to end up with Larry over either of those quarterbacks. Um, and, uh, and it's, it's going to be sad, you know, as, as they're recording this podcast, he hasn't announced if he's retiring yet, but a lot of signs point to he's going to, but, um, but who knows, he might be back. Every year in New England, that he's going to sound the Patriots, but we're going to

trade for him every year. Every year. Now that rumor, now that rumor is that he's going to end up on the bucks with Bruce Arians. Um, but, uh, yeah, there was that rumor for a long time, ever since they did that Randy Moss experiment, right? And they guys, they set incredible records throwing, you know, with the Brady Moss relationship, but, but looking at that draft class like Carlos Stansby, Pro Bowl linebacker, Darnall Docket was, is, is an, was an incredible detackle, even though he's a net job. Uh, Stepanovich was a, uh, the fourth round pick. He was started week one at center and Antonio Smith was a huge piece on that team that made that run to the Super Bowl, um, that played the Steelers and then ended up getting a huge contract with the Texans

and had a, a great career career with them too. So this draft class was insanely good. Um, and, uh, and so it's just, you look back at this team and it's just interesting to recall that, that group. Yeah. I think this draft in general, we look back on it and yeah, like the first round of this draft had like almost all pro ballers. It was ridiculous. The whole draft was complete. That being said, like the starting defense for the Cardinals in this game, I was like, there's so many nobodies on here and they had those eyes. They just got them. So they weren't even starting yet. Yeah. But they were good. Yeah. This defense seemed like it was the strength of this team too though. It was. I mean, Adrian Wilson is going to be like in the ring of honor

for the Cardinals. If he, you know, isn't already great safety. I know he had a tough year with you guys at the end of his career, but he's, he's, he's an all-time great, you know, from Cardinals standpoint. Uh, you know, Kyle Vanden Bosch, you know, was a really good defensive end for the Cardinals who came from that Nebraska program, the Blackshirts. Uh, Duane Starks won a Super Bowl with the, with the Ravens. Um, and, uh, you know, I already mentioned Docket, Dansby and Antonio Smith. Um, and even Ronald McKinnon who played middle linebacker had a really good NFL career. So this defense was really good. The problem was they just weren't good against the run. And I think you guys saw that in the very first quarter with Corey Dillon running wild. Um, that, that the

problem was they couldn't get themselves off the field because stopping the run was tough. Their, their, their past defense was really good. And the pressure they'd get on quarterbacks was great. But they couldn't stop the run. And that was the problem with that team this year. Yeah. And, uh, that even the, um, the announcers at the beginning of the game when the Patriots first got on the fields, uh, said something about how the, the, one of the Arizona linebackers was like, Oh, we're going to, we're focusing on stopping the run. So they're just not going to be able to run it. And then I think Dillon had like 31 yards on that first drive alone. I had 51 by the end of the first quarter. He was like,

he ended with 32 carries, 158 yards, which he should have had a touchdown. They got called back on an absolute bullshit penalty. Yeah. Which they called twice, but we'll save the referee. Good day for fantasy managers for sure. Absolutely. Back in 2004. Yeah. Corey Dillon, what a pluck, you know, another one of those guys that, you know, the Patriots have gotten for years that you just get, you know, after they have some great careers with bad teams and just grab them to have a couple more great years before they sail off into the sunset. Should have been Julio. All right.

Right. How we talked about this, Gerald. Yep. No doubt. But yeah, they actually said that, uh, when he went over 150, that this was the eighth time in his career that he had a game with at least 150 yards. They also said he had the Cardinals. Yeah, I mean, yeah, as a Cardinals, Gash like 220 yards once. Yeah, uh, 216. When he was with the Bengals, I remember that game. He set records. Yeah. Yep. There's, I think there's a few of those, uh, records that have Cardinals defenses on the other side of it, but I mean, it's either that or the Browns.

Because, uh, who was it that we, we, we did a Browns game last year. Priest Holmes. Just Priest Holmes. It may have been. And I thought it was the Ravens guy, um, back, back in those days. Who wasn't Steve? I don't even know. You're trying to get Jamal, Jamal, uh, what's his name? Lewis. Yeah. And I think the, the Browns linebacker the day before said, I did, like called him up, called up Jamal Lewis and said, I dare you to run it. Um, we're going to be on you all day and was like trash talking to him. And so then Jamal Lewis the next day ran for like 250 yards on them.

Yeah. He ran 200 yards in both games against the Browns. That's it. Yeah. Just doubling down after going down 200 yards. Yeah. Tough luck. Stood out to me watching this game though, as there's just a reminder of some of the random ass wide receivers that were on the Patriots that just had great careers for just the Patriots and then no one else, David Patton, Dion Branch. Like that was, that was back at the time where it was like, how are they able to even move the ball with these guys who are barely, you know, six feet tall and don't look like they're the fastest guys in the world either.

Just, it doesn't, it defies science with the success that they had. It was all scheme. They had that. Although in this game, neither of those guys did anything. I think, uh, Branch got hurt on what may have been the play of the game, just from like, uh, a podcast, respectively, I guess, where, uh, the Patriots get the ball back at, um, oh, so actually, no, though, drive before there's like a few seconds left and the Cardinals are going for a field goal. It's like a 57 yard. Yeah. Cause Neil Rackers has already kicked two, one from 51, one from 52. And so this one's 58. They're like, you know what,

fuck it. Let's give it a shot. You try it and it got blocked. So the patient of the ball, like the 40 yard line, and they're like, all right, let's try it. And so they tried like the quick screenplay to try to like get a few yards, as they get in, uh, um, field goal range. And it was dropped by, I think it was David Gibbons and David Gibbons. There's another good name that would do nothing on any other team. We got hurt. Hey, come on. He went to the red skins and got hurt. That's my guy. So I didn't go to the Titans. Sorry, Steve. The Titans. Um, but, uh, yeah. So the field go against blocks, the pass, get the ball, and they run one play and they think the, the half is over. And so everybody starts like

filing off the field and the refs like, no, no, no, no, there's one second left. So we have to file back on the field because, you know, refs are dickheads. And then, um, the page is like, you know what, fuck it, we're doing a Hail Mary. So they throw a Hail Mary and it looked like the play was actually supposed to be David Gibbons jumps up and bats it back down to Troy Brown, weirdly, and it almost worked except it got intercepted by, uh, a cardinal linebacker. I don't remember who it was. And he's like, you know what, fuck it, I'm returning this. So he takes off downfield and tries to return it. And, uh, this is probably a good time to introduce commentators, Don Crickey and Steve

Tasker. I'd say that the JV team, but I don't know what's lower than that. Can we, while you introduce him, can we talk about how when they intro Dwayne Starks in the starting lineup, Steve Tasker calls, says Dwayne Starks played for the, won a Super Bowl with the Baltimore Colts in 2002. Uh, that, that was a, that was a worth making note of for me. Uh, Cardinals fans are used to the BC and D teams when it comes to telecasts. So, um, there are a lot of times, a lot of times you mute, um, especially when Cardinals are on CBS B teams, because not very often does the CBS teams, you know, groups go and do NFC games. Um, so, uh, and that goes back decades now. So it was, uh, there was a few of

those where it was like, what is he even talking about right now? I thought they were good. All right. Well, they couldn't even, uh, agree on how to pronounce Josh McCown's name. No, yeah. They did mispronounce his name a lot. Oh, but, and then they go back to the right pronunciation. Then they go back to McCowen. Yeah. Where you get the E from? He's been playing for 30 years. Of course you know how to say his name. This is like Josh McCown's third start, but they got it right. And then they went off of it to McCowen and then they went back to McCown. Either way. So he's scrambling, right? He's rolling out, right? He's got nothing. Just throw the ball away. He's like, nope, it's 39. I have nine yards to go. There's five guys that are probably gonna

try and do it anyways. And they say, well, you have to admire his courage, if not his discretion. That's great. Yeah. But so, uh, during this return, I'll get to go back to the, the Hail Mary play. This, this linebacker size, he's going to run probably like 110 yards, try score touchdown. And for some reason, I don't know like what happened off the player or whatever it was, because the way that they had the, the view of it was like from the back of the end zone, like running out away from the camera. And all of a sudden you see Dion Branch running back to go catch the guy. And all of a sudden one of the Patriots offensive lineman comes hammering out of like diving from off screen and just clips Dion Branch at the knees and he goes up and over

and lands directly on his back. That's super hard. And commentators at this point, I think it was probably Steve Tasker was bullshit about how it was an illegal block. Completely missing the fact that it was his own teammate. So it was not a block. It was like, that should be a penalty. Like they, yeah, they call the other penalty. That should be a penalty too. Until he finally, I think somebody must have told him or something at the, at the fourth quarter when they were showing it, like as the game was wrapping up and they're doing the highlights. So maybe this is by no means allowing, you know, saying that that's okay from a commentary standpoint, has someone who's spent time in the press box at Sun Devil Stadium,

it is really high up there. Like it is, it is a really tall press box. And I'm sure with technology back in 2004, the monitors that they were looking at were probably the size of, you know, maybe the small screen that we're looking at to see each other that isn't the main screen. So in the moment, I can see where maybe he could have made that error until seeing the replay. But the fact that he stuck with it after seeing the replay should ruin the competency of this group right here. Jared, stop, stop trying to reason with Andy on commentators data. Well, the problem is, the problem is, I am, before I got into the world I'm in now, it's how Steve and I know each other is in the golf world. I was in the media and broadcasting

for about 10 years. And so I worked, I worked, you know, behind the scenes and part of TV productions and some of those were at Sun Devil Stadium for random games. So, but Steve Tasker calling, you know, the Baltimore Ravens, the Baltimore Colts was a good one for me, right? When I heard him say that, I was like, oh, this is going to be a great game. This is going to be a good one. After the Patriots scored their first touchdown halfway through the first quarter, they go to Steve and his pearls of wisdom were, oh, Arizona is going to have to start throwing the ball to catch up. Bro, you're down seven points. Seven nothing in the first quarter. I think you can stick to your game plan still. Yep. Yep. No doubt. No doubt. Very worried about that

too. But, and, but, you know, and, and, you know, maybe, maybe Denny Green heard him because what Josh McCown started throwing it like crazy and threw a couple picks not, not long after that. Josh McCown that season got a really quick hook, you know, for a guy that had such a long NFL career with so many teams, you would have thought that with how much Denny Green didn't like the guy, that he wouldn't have made it past that season. They ended up going to Sean King. Remember, he played with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for a while after Trent Dillford. Denny Green went to Sean King for a majority of that season. Josh McCown got the quick hook, Cardinal career ended and his incredible career with just about every NFL team happened.

Kind of all Ryan Fitzpatrick now. Right. Came from there. Josh McCown on this season, 2,500 yards, 11 touchdowns, 10 interceptions. He wasn't that bad. He was kind of, he was kind of talented. Problem was Cardinals had a horrible offensive line. You know, it was the Cowboys that discovered that Leonard Davis would be better at playing guard than at tackle. But they, they wrote out Leonard Davis, who was a former top five pick out of Texas at tackle for years. And he was, I think, among the league leaders in fall starts, and he was just covering the blind side of these quarterbacks, and they just had no chance. Yeah, it did seem that way. Yeah. Mike Frable coming off that end every time.

Can we spend some? Go ahead, Steve. Cardinals touchdown score in this game. Probably the most famous name in the game, except for Tom Brady. Mr. Emmett Smith. You already talked about it, didn't you? I don't even really remember him being on the Cardinals. Definitely. If you said Emmett Smith as a Cardinal scores a touchdown in the game against the Patriots, you go, are you sure? That sounds good. Yeah. So yeah, Emmett Smith, he was one of many professional athletes who, like many, like to retire coming to the state of, the state of Arizona. A lot of professional athletes like to move to Arizona to finish their careers ahead of their retirement. There's a long

list of people across all professional sports, you know, the Suns, the Diamondbacks, the Cardinals have had more than their fair share. But the Emmett Smith era was weird because everyone hated him here. Really? The Cardinals and the Cardinals and Cowboys up until a few years before that were in the same division. When the Cardinals first moved to the Valley, they did not take them out of the NFC East. It wasn't until, I think, the late 90s that they finally... Two, wasn't it? Yeah. Forgive me. I don't remember the... At the same time, the Colts. At the same time, the Colts. They did the realignment with everything. Enough to Patriots division. Seemed ideal. Yeah. Yeah.

They did that whole realignment to where you see it, how it is today. But that was, it was within a few years, like you said, maybe in 2002, that, you know, the Cardinals were no longer in the same division as the Cowboys. And I have PTSD of going to Sun Devil Stadium and having to deal with Cowboys fans. They're the worst in all of sports, in my opinion. And so... I'm not going to do Boston fans. I know. One wearing a shirt that is just literally a collage of Tom Brady's face all over it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have anything against Boston teams. So maybe if I was around Boston, you know, teams more, that might be different. I was around Cowboys fans growing up and they're

just the worst. So all of a sudden, Emmett Smith pulls up. And in most cases, you'd think getting an all-time great coming to your team would be an exciting thing. But a lot of people here were pretty lukewarm about it because no one liked Emmett Smith. And then he came here and averaged three yards a carry in the final year of his career. And sure, he had that nice touchdown in this game, you know, the first to get the Cardinals on board. And I'm sure it got everyone excited, but it was definitely a little era to forget. And I think even Emmett Smith forgot it when he gave his Hall of Fame acceptance speech, too. I don't remember a shout out to the Cardinals in that speech. You had almost a thousand yards, nine touchdowns. Yeah. I was going to say, I was

surprised. That's just the volume, the sheer volume. They had no one else to get the rock to. I mean, that's true. He had more. That's still impressive. He was pretty old at this point and he played all, he played 15 games, 267 carries. That's a lot. His 15th season as a running back. That's Frank Goresk. Yeah. It was also at this point averaging probably three yards a carry. So, yeah. It was around three yards per carry for Emmett that season. And you know, you could have blamed the offensive line, but there was a lot of games where it looked like he was still trying to channel that running through the tackles, you know, between the guards, types of runs that were

maybe two steps low as opposed to one step slow at that point in his career. He saw this game where he's just like running into the back of his linemen and stuff and you just, yeah, it didn't look like the same. Didn't have that burst. So, that definitely disappeared. Not at all. Defense is a beast this year. Yep. So, when do we get to talk about, to talk about my boy Teddy Bruceky? Oh. One of the, one of the, one of the first of, you know, many Arizona wildcats that have come to have great careers. I went to college with Gronk. Feel free to ask questions about that too. I was, I'm a couple of years older than him, but we were there at the same time. So, we can, we can go down that path, but if you want to start

with Teddy Bruceky, I was hoping we would talk about him a little bit. Absolutely. I mean, Teddy Bruceky is, well, him and Ronnie Arizona are the heart of this defense and war for this entire first after the dynasty, I would say. Oh yeah. I mean, just a guy who comes back from having a hole in his heart and having a miss a season and then decides, you know what, you know, let's, let's go back to playing football, especially in the style that he does, which a lot of people have like specific images of him in their mind. When you think of Teddy Bruceky, mine is him coming in on a blitz and trying to like dive head first over the running back, trying to pick him up and basically just being

upside down in the quarterback's face, like legs first, trying to tackle him with his knees, like back of his knees. And that's like, that's who Teddy Bruceky is to me. Like he's just. So the U of A football team like the Arizona Cardinals isn't known for a pristine history of or tradition of excellence. But the years that he was there, they had a defense that was called the Desert Swarm and they were one of the classic. You can go Google right now, the Sports Illustrated cover issue with Teddy Bruceky that also included Chris. It was a Chris McAllister. There's a couple other guys. It started a run of Arizona defenses that even though the teams never made it to like the Rose Bowl or won a conference championship, were regularly ranked and were

among the best in the country. It was kind of like a model. They had a style of play in a model. They were kind of becoming known like the Nebraska Blackshirts were in college football. And Teddy Bruceky was one of the pioneers of that era. And so he to this day is one of the most beloved alumni of the football program. In fact, a couple years ago, they did a history, was it a 25 year history anniversary of the Desert Swarm team? Maybe it was longer than that. And the team on homecoming wore the uniforms that they wore that year. And Teddy Bruceky's Jersey was the one they were selling online to commemorate that anniversary. So he's a mean muggin in this picture. Yeah, I mean, that hair, oh, he looks great. Maybe when we're done or maybe for your

audience, you can tell him to YouTube Desert Swarm highlights because that defense, the way you described the way he played in the NFL was the way that whole defense played in college and him included and some of the best highlights that the football program has ever had. I love it. So really, though, what what thanks for new kill Harry the fuck. So no, he's a Sun Devil. Okay, you like many on the East Coast, don't pay attention to us out here. And don't realize, you know, Bristol, Connecticut gets this wrong on the regular, and we always make fun of it. They'll put the U of a logo with Arizona State next to it or vice versa. Nikhil Harry played for Arizona State. But I know Nikhil since he was in eighth grade.

He he yeah, he's a he's a local Phoenix product. And it's sad for me because to see him being known as someone who is soft is just so not on brand for what I watched him in high school and what I watched out of him at the college level. It's it's kind of bizarre for me because he's a special talent coming up out of high school, one of the top ranked wide receivers on the West Coast was getting recruited by everybody had a great career at ASU, even though I'm not an ASU fan. But to see what he has turned into at the pro level, to be honest, is very surprising. And I'm pretty, pretty taken back by it. Not a guy that I expected to have a tough career. I mean, honestly, it might be coaching where you just doesn't take bell checks now because we've seen

it. It's not everybody's cup of tea. And just learning that offense is yeah. Yeah. And Brady at the end of his career is super demanding too. Yep, I can see it. I can see it. But you know, you never know. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, he maybe it just takes one season. He's got the physical gifts and the talent, the speed for his size. So, you know, you never know, you never know what can happen. But it is pretty disappointing to see what what it's turned into. But there was at one point where he and Byron Murphy, who's technically the number two corner on the Cardinals right now, we're on the same high school team. So, so it was pretty wild. It's pretty wild to see, you know, two NFL guys were at one time on the same high school team here in Phoenix.

It doesn't really happen here in New Hampshire. You don't see anybody here at high school and go on to play in the NFL. Football and high school football in Phoenix has become no joke. They play year round. I mean, if you look, you look at the BCS Bowl games last year at the college level, you know, almost every quarterback was from Phoenix. Spencer Rattler on Oklahoma. You got Brock Purdy, who is on Iowa State, Slovis on USC. You know, you've got the Oregon starting quarterback was from here. You know, they're and all of them conveniently not playing for Arizona universities. They can't keep they can't they can't keep the best talent here in state, except for Nikhil Harry. Nikhil Harry was

like the only guy that Arizona State was able to keep in town. Take it out of him, I guess, the heat. Absolutely. Maybe there's your point right there. His four years at Arizona State, three years at Arizona State sucked all the life out of him. So did you guys see the Pat Tillman tribute this game in this broadcast? Yeah, because this was the year that he died. It was and this was the first home game. This was the first home game since he had passed. Right, right, right. So yeah, everyone in the whole league was wearing the 40 stickers. Yeah. Yeah, Pat Tillman played for ASU before played for the Cardinals. And so he's a legend here. And even though I like we've, you know, well established, I'm not an Arizona State fan, but

anyone who is a fan of football here in the state of Arizona as a Pat Tillman fan, he was extremely all the stuff you hear and read about him was true, extremely well liked, an unbelievably hard working overachiever who went from being a seventh round pick to a guy that was one of the more exciting safeties in the league that was gearing up to earn a nice second contract and just decided to hang it all up to go fight in the war after 9-11. So it's an unbelievable story and it's sad to hear the conspiracy theories that have come from that since. But there's an awesome statue out in front of the State Farm Stadium in Glendale where the Cardinals play of him right outside one of the entrances. And his jersey still to this day

is one of the best-selling Cardinals jerseys year in and year out. Is that he had something like 225 tackles in a season? Yeah, he was a monster. That's incredible. Yeah, he was he was. That didn't seem like pro football reference doesn't have it that high, but it's like they only have his offensive stats. It's just weird. Pat Tillman offensive stats. I don't know. Maybe I can still. Yeah, well, what's crazy? What's crazy is Greg, you goddamn stat check. I mean, still in 2000, he had 155 combined tackles, 118 solo for a safety. That's that's a for a safety who was a linebacker in college. That's insane.

Yeah, like this guy was, you know, literally the person that you think of, at least locally, when you think of maximizing every ounce of your being to be as good as you can. He he was incredible. And they still honor him regularly out here. I mean, every year ASU football team does a salute to service game. And they always, you know, have a Pat Tillman reference just a few years ago, everyone on the back of the ASU football team, instead of having their own name had Tillman on the back of their jerseys. They do what's called the Tillman run, which is a I think it's a 5k that goes from outside of Sun Devil Stadium around 10p and it ends inside the stadium running on the field. And it's always attended by thousands of thousands of people

raising money for the foundation that they've created the Tillman foundation. So he is still someone to this day that is honored and talked about regularly. That's the type of impact that he had on the community out here. It's pretty pretty crazy that of all games that you know, we're talking about and looking back on it's the first home game since he had been, you know, killed in action. It's just of all things. It seems pretty, pretty wild. And that's kind of like why we started doing this podcast is because we, like when we're experiencing it in real time, you're like, Oh, that's, that's a cool moment. But then you go back and rewatching like, I don't remember this at all. Like I don't remember this

being the first Arizona Cardinals home game since Pat Tillman died. You know, like that's these are the things that almost get lost to history. Yeah, absolutely. What did Corey Dylan end up doing that season? Getting a Super Bowl. Oh, you know, outside of that. I mean, was he like, that's all that matters, Jared. Come on, man. You're on a piece of my past. He only ran for 1600 yards and 12 touchdowns. He basically had the Randy Moss, you know, break out with a new team season before Randy Moss. Yeah, he was the original. Yeah, he, he went off. And I think it's spoiler alert in the

playoffs against the Colts. He kind of single-handedly won that game in the, in the slop. The Patriots controlled the ball for like 70% of the game or something ridiculous. Just now everyone knows how the season's ending and he knows going to listen to the rest of the episodes. Steve, they'd have to. Well, you just said you won the Super Bowl, Steve. So like, gosh, I guess I could just fast forward to 2005. Just skip all the way to like 2016. You're fine, Steve. So I want, I want to touch on Gronk, but just to kind of tie it into this game. Brady had a kind of an up and down game. He threw two picks that were bad interceptions. What was the Hail Mary bullshit? Oh, that's for you. But the other one was, was bad. Yeah.

But he also threw two touchdowns, both to who I think was supposed to be the original Gronk, Daniel Graham, who is one of those guys who I think had all the physical tools that Gronkowski had coming into the league, but could not catch a football to save his goddamn life. Yeah. So, but he managed to snag two in this one, basically both off play action because Cory Dill was running it down. Everybody's throat. Yeah. One of those, one of those, but that first touchdown of the game, right? Yes. Yeah. That play action. Yeah. Which I think is kind of the almost stereotypical touchdown of early Tom Brady career is that really hard play

action with two tight ends and throw it to whoever's like from the goal line. Yeah. Yeah. Underneath the underneath the goal post there. And then the second one as pointed out by the commentators, which I had missed. So great kudos to them. The Patriots and this Patrick pass on like a, you know, a 10 yard touchdown. He just over Tom Brady over through them. They just flip the play and ran to the other side to Graham and he's wide open. That's, that's great. Just running the same play twice again. Hey, I just see Bill Belichick being like, Hey, you know what, let's just run that same play again against these schmucks. You know what? No, fuck, I'm going to get it this time, but I want to do it to the right.

Did he have those chops back then after he had won Super Bowls this when he got kind of those chops or he's like, it was really that first 2001 since then it's been coasting for him. No, I think he's just starting to get that fuck you attitude now. Like Oh three, he was still struck. Well, Oh three, he played a heart through the whole thing because we, like I completely forgot in the last game of Oh two, he was playing on a separated shoulder and then like we separated it. So the whole Oh three season was playing basically on a separated shoulder that hadn't fixed itself. So this is like the first year he's like officially healthy and knows the system and everything. So I think this is the start of the fuck you Tom Brady, but he still

doesn't quite look like today's Tom Brady, where he just knows what's going to happen all the time. Belichick though, he's getting close to fuck you mode. Yeah. He's still wearing polos at this point. So he's not there yet in this game. That's true. He doesn't have the hoodie going. He's in a nice golf. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's only 109 on the field, everybody. It's nice out. Yeah. Yeah. I think the just to kind of sun this game up, it was just the Patriots keeping it closed and it should be because they kept doing stupid turnovers and the Cardinals not taking any of those turnovers and doing anything with them because except for putting Neil Rackers on the field and kicking field goals. Yeah. He was their offense.

He was awesome. Okay. I know you guys think it's like ridiculous that we're talking about kickers here, but we get it into England. You should get it. You should get it with the, you know, the career and Adam Venetieri had it. He was the kicker for you guys this season. Neil Rackers was a drive saver for this team for a number of years and kept them in a lot of games. And it was just, you know, as much as this team didn't amount to much during this era, I mean, you forget, they did make the Super Bowl in 2007. So there's just a few years away from that where Rackers was the kicker and they made that playoff run. But like when you're a young, trying to figure it out team, having a kicker that could, you know, was automatic from 55 plus was a big deal. Not to mention, he

was, according to many, more handsome than Tom Brady, you know, so the Cardinals had to have something going for it. They might as well have a super charge, you know, create a player style kicker that had amazing looks. It's like me playing Madden. Yeah. One guy we work with, he's a Bill's fan, his favorite player is Brian Mormon, the punter. Of course. So, so Bill, like we said, Bill's fans have it worse. They don't even have kickers they can root for. It's just punters. I'm surprised you guys slightly worse. Speaking of punters, Scott Player, the Cardinals punter, the last guy left in the NFL to wear the single bar helmet. He's in this game. That's like such a goober. Those are the dumbest helmets. They didn't do anything

because like it's like, it's like a chin strap. Yeah. It was basically a chin strap. Yeah. At that point, can you just not wear one or is it like part of the NFL rules? You have to have a, you have to have a face mask. He's like, you know what, fuck it, this will do. I just don't understand. Like I get like, it's just in all aspects of life. There are certain things where it's like, you know, you want to wear stuff that maybe is a little off or different because it speaks to who you are. And then there are some things that are just so awful looking that it's like just even if you're trying to go for something here, just don't do it. Right. And the Scott Player single bar, like the Cardinals would have the last guy ever to

wear the single bar helmet. Like those are the types of things that the Cardinals have in NFL history. Where does the shirt fit on that continuum then? That shirt is, it's up there, but if it has awesome and who you are and just like a part of, yeah. It does say a lot about you, Steve. Let's say that. I think that face mask is second worst, only to, I believe it was a San Diego punter at the time. He had, it was like the thin double bar, but like the top of it, like where it would like go over his eyes kind of like raised up is almost like his face mask had raised eyebrows. So it gave the whole helmet a quizzical look. And every time I look at it, I couldn't help. I had to laugh at it. It's the most ridiculous looking helmet.

Like, why do you need that to go up? So is it, so is it blocking your view? I don't understand. Like it's a insulation, Andy. Come on. But it's the dumbest face mask I've ever seen. Hunters are so weird. If we're talking about helmets too, can we talk about how Larry Fitzgerald has the same hunter helmet in this game that he still does to this most recent, that retro, like Revo helmet, you know, that was super cool and trendy at the time. And now literally no one else has except for Larry. He's just, he's been grandfathered and nobody else is allowed to wear those anymore. Probably not even, probably not. Amazing. Yeah. I think Larry Fitzgerald in this game, they were already talking about how he was like the focal point of the game, two games,

the focal point of the offense, two games in the page, double teaming them every play. It's high law on him. That's pretty cool. What a kind of looking back on it. What a cool matchup. Right. Yeah. A good example of looking for the commentators. One of the guys with the least amount of experience being covered by one of the guys with the most talking about the tie law, Larry Fitzgerald matchup. What great commentary. Well, I'm just looking back. It is because like yeah, now it's Fitzgerald is forever old. I mean, tie law wasn't exactly on the back night of his career. I don't know. You can say most. Yeah, but he was well accomplished at that point. So it's just, you know, when you think about, you know, some cool matchups that, you know,

transpired over the years, you know, people love to talk about, you know, what if Jordan could have played against LeBron, you know, like, like, you know, it would have been really cool to see tie law on his prime against Larry and his prime. They actually got to face off against each other, though, in this game. And it's, and it's pretty cool. Just would have been good to have Larry have a quarterback that could throw it to him. Fitzgerald's probably played against tie law all the way up to Stefan Gilmore. Yeah, he has. That's impressive. That is pretty impressive. Oh man. All right. What else we got? You want to do best and worse? I just want to see if there's anything else in here.

Throw out, you know, the name Bertrand Berry was a pro bowler, you know, was pro bowler for the Denver Broncos, pro bowler for the Cardinals, the only pro bowler for the Cardinals in this season. I think he got to Larry or got to Brady in this game. Yeah. So a shout out to Bert, the B train getting, getting in on the action against the Pats. Yeah, he had a hell of a season. He had 14 and a half sacks, four, fours fumbles on the season this year. There was a guy who also had a sack named Ross Colodej K. O. L. O. D. Z. I. E. J. Nailed it. Thanks for that. I couldn't get it, but like, man, that guy sitting there being like, I sacked Tom Brady and everyone's like, no, you didn't do. Oh yeah. Steve, he probably has a podcast

about the same game and he talks about on repeat that time that he sacked Tom Brady. But there was some great, there was a couple of great names in this that I, that I came across the full back. Oh, but Femi, I am Badejo. Badejo. Yep. I'm Badejo. Yep. That's a great fucking name. Yep. And also Peppy Zellner was Peppy. Peppy Zellner. What a great name. Peppy had a few quarterback hurries in this, the first half of this game. Yeah. Yeah. He was a solid defensive end, but every time they said Peppy Zellner, he couldn't help but smirk a little. You know, chuckle a little bit, right? Yeah. That's great. Bring some levity to the situation that is. Take it easy.

One last note before we do best and worst. With this win, New England moves to 17 wins in a row on their way to their record setting. That would tie the 76-77 Oakland Raiders. 18 is the record held by a few teams. One, two, three, four, five teams. Most recently, Denver, the 97-98 Denver team that cheated their way past the salary cap. Good for them. The 89-90 San Francisco 49ers, which I think that was like the Steve Young switch over. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a transition to Steve Young. Obviously, the 72 Dolphins, they won 16-0 and then won the next two games in 73, I think. Or maybe, yeah, something like that. Yeah. Let's asterisk this because this is regular season wins.

Isn't it? No. This is including full season. Yeah. I thought the NFL has all the records in regular season wins because you have to. Sometimes, yeah. But the last two on this are the 33-30. Here's an asterisk for you. The 33-34 and 41-42 Chicago Bears. Wow. Free NFL Chicago Bears when there was still an AFL to compete with them. Yeah. Each game was like two to one. Yeah. Speaking of things that transpired, you guys talked about all these records. Two things that happened to the Cardinals this season were two losses to the 49ers who didn't beat any other teams that season. They went two and 14. They went two and 14. So, if say, you know,

the Cardinals, you know, pull something out of their ass and beat the worst team in football, they would have finished eight and eight and the Rams finished eight and eight that season and made the playoffs. And the Cardinals split with the Rams that season. I'm not going to do a deep enough dive to know if they had the tiebreaker with the Rams. But it would have been close. If the Cardinals could have found a way to figure out to beat the worst team in the NFL, which I think led to them drafting Alex Smith, one overall. I'm pretty sure that's the draft. I could be wrong. I'm just going off the top of the brain here. But if they could have figured out a way to do that, they might have made the playoffs that year. And we're talking about a

playoff team that the Patriots beat in week two on the road, as opposed to, haha, this was a whatever Cardinals win or a win over the Cardinals, you know, so just another fun little tidbit for you to talk about how glorious the season was. You were correct. Pick number one overall. San Francisco 49 is Alex Smith. And before that, I watched Alex Smith coached by Urban Meyer play in the Fiesta Bowl. I was at that game in person. Oh, damn. Yeah. Yeah. Just round and round we go. Arizona Cardinals picked, uh, Andrew Roll, great pick who was big time, big time player. Again, like that, that stretch of those two drafts were like the groundwork for a defense that got the Cardinals all the way to the Super Bowl just a few years later. And this is a great

draft, too, though. Alex Smith, Ronnie Brown, Braylon Edwards, Adam Jones, Pacman Jones, Andrew Roll, Carlos Rogers, DeMarcus Ware, Sean Merriman, Jamal Brown from the Saints. We're in week two of season 2004. And he's already talking about the 05 draft. Jesus Patriots number 32 Logan Mankins. Stall war. Another solid draft back in those days. Yeah, we'll get to that, though. Right, Steve? Yes, Andy. All right. So, um, just to explain to Jared, uh, growing up around the, around the dinner table, our parents used to make us do, um, best and worst for your days. You have to pick the best and the worst that happened. So we've carried that into the podcast where you just, well, glad to join the Brown family dinner here. So you just, uh, so we'll

start with Steve. Steve, give me your, uh, your best and worst from this game. Uh, my best was, I could just hear this highlight on prime time. They, they try to pitch to Corey Dillon and he like fumbled that he didn't even catch it really. The Cardinals pick it up, but like there's two of them running down the sidelines, like big boys, both trying to pick it up and run at the same time. And they're like bumping into each other and not going to hear Chris Berman go rumbling, rumbling, rumbling. Exactly. That was the best. It was also a worst because that was a, yeah, yeah. That was one of those terrible turnovers that pretty bad. Like the, yeah, the Cardinals hadn't done anything. And they had like 13 total yards of offense. And yet they're still in field

goal range. Cause Corey Dillon, your superstar running back, can't catch a pitch. Like 30 yards and six points. Yeah. Which is pretty impressive. And then I saw a GIF of Romeo Cornell doing the voodoo thing. You know, that's like a famous Belichick GIF. Yeah. And I was like, Oh shit. Came from this game. Yeah. Now I snagged that. That'll be on the website. Nice. Good call. And hey, connection for you. Romeo Cornell's defensive coordinator when he became the head coach of, was it the chiefs clan clan? Was it the Browns? Oh, no, I think maybe it was the chiefs.

Was a, yeah, it was when he came the head coach of the chiefs was a Clancy Pendergast, who was the Cardinals defensive coordinator in this game. Oh, right. Another great name. Clancy Pendergast. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I didn't have too much more of the worst outside of the Patriots inability to really put the Cardinals away. Yeah. There was a worse for the Cardinals where they, they had like a, they're in their own end zone. You have a look that so many people have when they talk about Cardinals games, just if you could just take a screen grab, this isn't good podcasting right now,

because they're not looking at you, but you just have this look where it's just like, it's just, oh, come on. Like, it's like a smile to shit on the rug. You're like, it's like you, but you're big obnoxious. Yeah, I could have done without that. You know, gosh, so continue Steve, but I just, I wanted you to capture that face because that is the face of a Cardinals fan. So it's like third 15, they get sacked, but oh, there's an outside, oh, we get to run another play, throw an interception. It's just like, oh, god damn, we should just take him, just to climb the outside, taking the sack and punting. Yeah. Yeah, that was rough. Yeah. Well, no, because didn't he, they threw an interception

and then it got called back for defensive holding on, I think, Thai law. And then so the very next play, and that was like third and long. So the very next play is like third and less long. And McCown or McCown, whoever you want to pronounce it, decides to just chuck at six feet over a double covered Larry Fitzgerald into Eugene arms, waiting arms for his second interception into place. And this one didn't get called back. Yeah. I think the pages take that score touchdown and it's starting to look then out of hand. And then they kept fumbling the ball, coughing it up and letting the Cardinals a little bit back into it. Yeah. Yeah. Not a good look. Yeah. All right. Jared, you want to give us your best and worst?

Sure. I'll do it from a Cardinals perspective. The best, you know, easy one we talked about, the honoring of Pat Tillman. Pretty cool watching that back and seeing the decals. And the worst was a play, and I think it was the second drive of the game, where it's just a flawlessly executed screenplay to Patrick Pass, who runs for about 25, 30 yards and fumbles the ball forward for another 20. And there's three Cardinals right there to recover it. And yet somehow was it, was it Deion Branch? The smallest receiver we have comes out of nowhere and ends up with the ball inside the 10 yard line. So it ended up being like a 55 yard play. I can't remember, you know, Tasker probably made something up on that play of the amount of yards that it ended up covering.

But that was, I guess, a microcosm for the rest of the game, where even when the Patriots were making mistakes and were trying to lose the game, you know, the Cardinals would just be like, nah, you take the win. You can have it. You can have it. So the Patrick Pass fumble forward for another 15 plus yards to get inside the 10 first and goal, which led to that first play action touchdown that we referenced, was probably my worst from the game. That's a really good one. Yeah. They went from the 46 yard line to the seven. Yeah. Yeah. And half of that. And you know what? And guess what? That screenplay was so well executed that it probably could have happened like that without the fumble. But he decided to basically just

throw the ball forward another 10, 15 yards and his boy Deion Branch was there to get it. It worked. That's what you got to do. Flawless execution there. Just like they wrote it up. All right. Let's see. My best was probably the fact that this was after having suffered through the run game of last season, where the Patriots are, I think, 29th in the league with an old broken down Antoine Smith. This is the first time the Patriots had a hundred yard receiver and a hundred yard rusher in the same game since 1997. Oh, Dougie. Steve, can you name either of those players? Oh, boy. One of them should be pretty

easy. The rusher and the receiver. The rusher. 97. Robert Edwards. No. God damn it. It's your boy. Yeah. Curtis Martin. And my favorite Martin. Yeah. Exactly. And Sean Jefferson. What's the wide receiver to go over a hundred yards? Yeah. Charger Hall of Famer. Sean Jefferson. Let's see. I have like a mixed best and worst. Okay. And it was Dennis Green. The best was that they shared this fact that when Dennis Green was coaching the Vikings, the ball boy on that team. Oh, yeah. Larry Fitzgerald. Yeah. That's right. Also. True story. So that's kind of the best. The worst when Dennis Green was coaching in college at

Northeastern, Northwestern, rather. On that Northwestern team, Steve Tasker. That's your worst. And they showed it. But well, they, yeah. So they put up this, they put up the picture and Don Crikey goes, what's this? As Steve's like, oh, well, let me tell you, which is obviously like, and also it was funny because for some reason, like the video that we have to watch this, um, in the second half, all of a sudden, like they were having trouble with the audio or something, but you could actually hear the guy who was probably in their ear, the commentators. So you started to hear like the countdown. It's like, oh, going to commercial in six, five, four. And then

you don't like do the thing to go to commercial. Oh, so bad. But and then they did it for the Steve Tasker. They like Tasker in three, two, and they went to it and Crikey's like, what's this? Garrett is cringing hard right now. Oh, gosh. That's just, that shouldn't happen. That should not happen. Yeah. Not at this level of the game. 2004, you know, a different time. Professionals. Both of them. All right. So we have one last thing to announce. Last, last week, we had Jeff Howe on from the athletic and he, in honor of him, we said we're going to give away a year-long athletic subscription for a randomly selected person who wrote us a review of the podcast, Good or Bad, and then texted the hotline to let us know that it was you that left the review.

So picking randomly was pretty easy because we got one review over the past three weeks. And of course, that would be our mother who figured out technology enough to be able to leave a review. So thanks, mom. Yes. So thank you for that. She told us, she told me the other day not to buy it for her. We didn't need to waste money, but she's getting it because we are, well, I am a man of my word. I'm not going to vouch for either of my brothers. Don't love me with that, Andy. So no, yes. So we'll be giving mom a buy my mother a subscription to the athletic for a year. So congrats to mom of brown. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. Did she text the dynasty hotline to let you know? She did. Yeah. Okay. Well, she did it twice. She texted me first

to say she did it and she hadn't. So I had to let her know that no, you haven't left a review. Oh, so she's like, oh, damn, I forgot to hit the submit button. Oh, God. So she texted first and then left the review. Yeah. And then texted again afterwards be like, I think I got it this time. Yeah, good work, mom. Yeah. So very nice. So yeah, so mom of brown, winner of that. And thanks to everybody for listening and not telling us what you think of us, maybe. Yeah. I mean, no news is good news, I guess. So we'll keep doing this. We're not doing it for their reviews. We're doing it for mom. At this point. All right. Well, this has been yet another thrilling episode of the pages dynasty podcast.

I think this one actually was. Yeah. Thank you, Jared, for joining us. We appreciate when we have kind of other perspectives of of these games that we kind of remember, but don't remember. So that was really cool. Absolutely. Next week. I don't even know. One of these days, you're going to shock the shit out of me. Oh, no, I'm not. And be like, oh, yeah, no, they're playing this. I remember this game. I was there. We are traveling to Ralph Olson Stadium going back across country. Yeah, from the desert to the frozen tundra. Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, it was 58 degrees in this next game in Buffalo, down from 109. So 89 to 58. It's not even that big. And seasonally cool. And then on seasonally warm.

Yeah, it kind of, it could be worse. We'll visit the windless Buffalo Bills in their hometown and we'll see how they do there. But all right. Thank you, gentlemen. And we will see you next week on the pages dynasty podcast. See you later. See you later.