PBD Podcast - Diddy's Attorney Benjamin Brafman Leaves Clues | PBD Podcast | Ep. 396

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

Patrick Bet-David sits down one-on-one with Diddy's attorney, Benjamin Brafman. Benjamin Brafman is an American criminal defense attorney and founder of the Manhattan-based law firm Brafman & Associates. Brafman is known for representing many high-profile defendants, including celebrities, accused Mafia members, and political figures. PBD LIVE W/ TULSI GABBARD ON APRIL 25TH: ​​Purchase tickets to PBD Podcast LIVE! w/ Tulsi Gabbard on April 25th: https://bit.ly/3VmuaRm MINNECT: Connect one-on-one with the right expert for you on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3MC9IXE Connect with Patrick Bet-David on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3OoiGIC CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES WISELY: Purchase PBD's Book "Choose Your Enemies Wisely": https://bit.ly/41bTtGD BET-DAVID CONSULTING: Get best-in-class business advice with Bet-David Consulting: https://bit.ly/40oUafz VT.COM: Visit VT.com for the latest news and insights from the world of politics, business and entertainment: https://bit.ly/472R3Mz VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: Visit Valuetainment University for the best courses online for entrepreneurs: https://bit.ly/47gKVA0 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! YOUR NEXT 5 MOVES: Want to be clear on your next 5 business moves? https://bit.ly/3Qzrj3m ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

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Robert Shapiro, I've had him on. We've had a great time together in an interview. Some will say Alan Dershowitz, some will will say F Lee Bailey which was one of my first interviews ten or twelve years ago We had a great conversation to get a him and his eight hundred page book that he would sell for I don't know what the Price was five six hundred bucks. We've had a lot of people but today He is known as the best criminal lawyer in New York the names I'll give you that he's represented you will recognize Many of these names from Michael Jackson to Charles Kushner

To Dinesh D'Souza to Jay Cohen to Samuel de Boca Rana Which we've had him on the podcast before as well multiple times to Harvey Weinstein to P. Diddy to Jacob Arabo To Philip Banks, New York City Deputy Mayor To I don't know how many more names I can give you. The list goes on. The point is, this is the man they call when it comes down to high profile figures that are dealing with some technical criminal issues.

And it's great to have you on our podcast today. Thank you. Nice to be here. It's good to have you here. So I got a few things I want to go through with you. Nice to be here. It's good to have you here. So I've got a few things I want to go through with you. Obviously we'll talk about Diddy and what some things are going on with Diddy. That's something that you've represented multiple times, whether it was back in 1990 and up to shooting, or if it was the Casey Ventura within 48 hours.

You guys got the deal done, 30 million bucks, and the current one that he's going through. But I wanted to open it up with you. What are your thoughts with any comments you have with what happened with OJ Simpson just a couple days ago, him passing? Well, you know, to be honest with you, I was a little bit surprised because I really didn't know that he was that sick. Nothing with OJ Simpson comes as a surprise since he was arrested and charged. I think that verdict was a surprise. And since then, OJ's been in and out of the news, much of it not good.

So I guess this is the ultimate penalty he faced. Ben, when it was happening, when all of us were glued to the screen watching the whole thing, I was watching the other day the amount of statistics that they're saying. They're saying the first time when he was in the Bronco and the police were chasing him was record-breaking day for Domino's Pizza because everybody in America was staying home ordering pizza and wondering when they're going to capture the guy. Or the final day when everybody was glued to the screen to see if the verdict was going to be guilty or not guilty, American businesses lost a half a billion dollars because

nobody was going out there staying home. So many interesting stats that comes about with OJ. Were you one that right off the bat following the case, did you say this guy's guilty, he didn't take his arthritis medication and that's the reason why his hand didn't fit. How did you process the verdict at the end, once the decision was made not guilty? Well, I was kind of stunned. You know, as a criminal defense lawyer, I wasn't glued to the screen. I watched it from time to time.

I think the prosecution in that case was at fault for him not being convicted. He was brilliantly represented by, among others, Johnny Cochran. He and I became close friends and colleagues following that trial. But, you know, at the end of the day, I think they over tried the case because I think they were trying to teach DNA to a jury of lay people and you don't need to do that in that case. And the other fact that I think caused the acquittal was when Detective Furman had to acknowledge that he used the N-word numerous times and when he took the Fifth Amendment, I thought, you know, case was over. Yeah, I think a lot of people are probably in the same place.

I've seen a lot of the different interviews being done with them. And one of the recent interviews, it was funny, it was done by a guy. They run a very successful podcast, Nelk Boys, Full Send. They asked him the question, you know, do you ever go to sleep wondering if they're ever going to catch the killer? And I don't know if you've seen this interview or not. He says, I don't really want to talk about it. I don't really want to talk about it.

There was a lot of people that were surprised that he was not guilty. Some of the people were happy that he was not guilty, and then years later they flipped. But obviously it was something that a lot of us followed for many years to come. So let's talk about Harvey Weinstein. You know, you've represented a lot of us followed for many years to come. So let's talk about Harvey Weinstein. You've represented a lot of interesting characters. Ben, what is your process when you get a call? I remember talking to Robert Shapiro and, you know, or Efele Bailey or Alan or some of these guys.

They just like these complicated cases. What is it about these cases that ends up coming to guys like you? Well, I think when people in that league are in criminal trouble, I think they want to go to someone who has experience. I don't think they want a novice. I think they want people with a proven track record. I didn't represent Harvey Weinstein at his trial. We parted company after a couple of months

because he insisted on having a skirt, as he called it, to represent him. And I said, Harvey, I can do a lot of things for you, but I just don't really want to become a woman. But when a powerful person is in trouble, I think they look for someone who's been around that block before, has a proven track record. And I think the most high profile person

I've ever represented was Dominic Strauss-Kahn, who had been indicted, and the case was ultimately dismissed. I mean, that's probably more an interesting result than an acquittal, getting an indictment dismissed by the district attorney's office where a person had already been indicted. And Ben, when did you, when you first started working with Harvey, did Harvey reach out to you? Did you guys reach out to him? Had you worked together with him in the past before or no?

No, I never worked with him before. He was referred to me by someone else. I quite frankly don't remember who. And I met with Harvey and we sat down, had a meal. And then Harvey continued to call me and I said, you know, Harvey, you're an interesting guy. And I'm learning a lot from talking to you about movies and production. But I think you need to come to grips with the fact that you're going to be indicted. And if you want me to represent me, you represent you, we need to formalize our representation by a signed retainer agreement, which he did. It's rare, if ever, that I reach out to the person who's in the scope. It's technically not appropriate.

I think I'm beyond that in my career, thankfully, and people generally reach out to me. Makes sense. Wasn't there a story that came out with the Harvey Weinstein? Help me, correct me at any time. I think I read a few different articles about this, even when it was going on and even recently. Was it him that asked you guys to have lawyers from your firm, associates to go represent the accusers so you can get intel to come back and help you against the case with them so you can have information?

And that was one of the reasons why the case had to be dropped. That story is well written and documented other places. Was it him asking of you or was it something where some of the associates were taking initiative to get more intel? I think that story stems from what I consider to be unethical behavior of a former associate who was not with the firm at the time. And it was a story where he ultimately conceded that I had zero involvement and to be honest with you was long after My representation of Harvey had ended but you know that associate to his long since

Gone shows up like a like a bad penny several times a year Got it. Yeah, it's all because strategically obviously from a, legally I can't see that being legal, right? But strategically I can see that being very helpful if that intel can come back in to give your client the leverage when you're negotiating. But obviously the associate this came afterwards as well.

When, I've sat with a lot of different people Ben, and I've sat with a lot of different people been and you've sat with a lot of interesting Guys, but you've said one-on-one like relationship day-to-day trying to work with representing these guys Did anybody you ever represent did you ever sit with someone and you said this guy here is cold This guy's dark. I Feel weird being around him and representing a guy like this. I'm not sure I'm comfortable I feel weird being around him and representing a guy like this. I'm not sure I'm comfortable representing somebody like this. Or has it always been, no, it's my job, they're here for me to fight for them, you know, no one really shakes me or makes me feel uncomfortable or even how dark they are.

I just have a job to do and I do it very well. Well, you know, I'm not the morality police and I don't pass judgment on what someone may or may not have done. Sam Gravano, who you mentioned, I only represented him for a couple of days and it you know, and then it ended. And to be honest with you, I keep being mentioned as his lawyer. And at the end of the day, I met him once. It didn't go well. Let me leave it at that. And we parted company. But, you know, at the end of the day, when you read a piece about me, his name shows up. So it's, it's unfortunate in some respects, because I wasn't

his lawyer in any substantive time. I interviewed him, he interviewed me, he liked me. I didn't pass judgment on what he was accused of doing, but shortly thereafter we parted company for reasons I don't think I can go into. But you know, if you asked him and he told the truth, I think he would say that he liked me, but it didn't end well between us. Got it. And even what year was this, by the way, with you and Sammy?

It was right before the Gotti trial. Oh, so you're talking about... I don't remember. Oh, you're talking... Time had to be at least 10, 15 years ago. Oh, that could be longer than that, Ben. If it's a Gotti trial, that could have been, yeah, that could have been a while back if it was a Gotti case. So you guys, technically, there was never an engagement and exchange of money in place

with you and Sammy where it doesn't qualify as you being his lawyer. I didn't consider him a client, and if he considered me a lawyer on his behalf, I can't answer for him. But, you know, I was retained briefly and I worked for him for just a couple of days. Got it. Okay, so it was a couple days that you worked for him. Makes sense. Yeah, I've spent a lot of time with Sammy, probably one of

the best storytellers out there. He can be very charming, charismatic, and he's been around the block and knows the mafia world like a historian. Like, he could be a professor teaching the history of mafia, but it's another one of those interesting characters you represented. What was your involvement with the Chin? Because they have Chin here, and chin is a legend in the mob world. What was that like? Well, he was probably one of the most interesting people I've met in my Legal career. I'm the one who ultimately convinced him to plead guilty to

Avoid having to go through another circus Trial he had lived his entire life under the to avoid having to go through another circus trial. He had lived his entire life under the guise of being mentally imbalanced. And at the end of the day, his family prevailed on him. They did not wanna go through another expensive proposition that was also very draining. He was old, he was sick,

he ultimately died shortly thereafter. And I don't think he had the strength or the courage, if you will, to go through another knockdown, drag out slugfest where it'd be a battle of experts. So I stood next to him when he ultimately acknowledged that he had essentially been Demonstrating this charade and He in open court admitted that it was part of his

stick if you will Make sense. Yeah that that Whenever you talk to any any mob, that guy's name comes up as a real, obviously for some people, when I say Chin, some people don't know what to Google. It's Vincent Chin Gigante, who was a boss. And he is a guy that played very low key, but behind closed doors was somebody that was feared and respected from the different families. So it's interesting you represented him as well. I guess if you're living in New York... Let me make a suggestion. I haven't

had a person who was believed to be a member of organized crime in at least 20, maybe 25 years. It was during a early period of my career and some of the best lawyers in New York were involved in those cases. And quite frankly, those people went into trial and that's where you learn how to try a case. You could cross examine 50 people in one of those cases and you develop a reputation as being a good cross examiner, which I think I have. But I never wanted to be tagged as a mob lawyer, if you will, and I wasn't. And my practices consist primarily of what I consider to be white collar criminal defense practice, where some of my clients are well-known, well-respected politicians, business people, attorneys, accountants.

So if we're gonna focus on my career, I just wanna give you a heads up that the cases you mentioned, while interesting, and the people are interesting, those old, old cases. Yeah, and you know, there's a part of this world that at first when I interviewed F. Lee Bailey, the first time, I'm like, oh my God, why would you represent these guys? There's a job, someone world that at first when I interviewed F Lee Bailey the first time I like oh my god, why would you represent these guys? There's a job someone's got to do the job So it's not like it's some people work at a prison some people go to war and fight some people sell insurance some people

Why would you ever sell life insurance who the hell on the right man would ever sell life insurance? There's a job for a lot of different things to do and we all got to take him and do our best When we're offered whatever, you know situation we're in to deliver. So but I understand it. I'm not passing any judgment here In regards to the current you're in New York today is the day the President number 45 is going through what he's going through with the you know Stormy Daniels and you've seen the 91 cases, and you're hearing one side talk about that the government is using the DOJ and the justice system to attack a potential

opponent. How do you process all the things that's going on? Are you supportive of the decisions they're making there and the way they're handling a New Yorker like yourself? How do you process this whole, you know, handling of how they've treated Letitia James, how they've handled Donald Trump? Well, you know, I made a decision several years ago to, you know, stay out of the Trump world, if you will. And I'm abided by that decision. So if you want my comment on the cases, I think individually some of the cases are

more significant than others. I reject outright that there is a conspiracy afoot that the weaponization of the Justice Department is determined to destroy a presidential candidate. I've been around too long. There are too many people who would have to be involved in a process like that. But I know it's the hottest topic of discussion, especially in New York today, where the downtown of New York has been turned into a virtual circus. But if you want a technical question about jury selection or something like that, I'm happy to discuss it. But I really don't want to talk about the Donald Trump and the various cases. I will say that based on the information I have, which comes

primarily from the media, from the legal publications I read, the suggestion that all of these cases are part of one genuine conspiracy to destroy a presidential candidate, I just don't accept that. That's based on Intel you have, that you're saying? It's not based on Intel. It's based on, you know, my experience in the criminal justice system goes back more than 45 years. I know Bragg, I know that office. I was a prosecutor in that office for more than four years. And to suggest that, you know, they've managed

to put together a team that only specific purpose is to prosecute a presidential contender to me is just doesn't make any sense. And I point out that an independent grand jury indicted him. So who knows what happens in this trial? And I rejected the invitations from every cable network and news station to be a talking head about the case and to give my, if you will, expert opinion. And I'm trying to stay away from that. Yeah, since you said specifics.

The one part about having to pay $450 million, the 83 to that E. Jean Carroll that she said he never raped her, and even on Anderson Cooper was the funniest thing where he's like, what is rape to you? Well, rape is a man's fantasy. And then Anderson Cooper's like, this girl's weird. He's trying to get off. He says, you're fascinating. And then she goes on Rachel Maddow and says, Rachel, we're going to go shopping together with this money.

Little creepy, little weird. I'm sure you're not the type of guy that wants to see your client celebrating doing something like that with the event not taking place. And then also the other side, I'm in Florida here right now myself. I've lived in California 20-something years, five years Dallas, three years Florida, 10 years in Iran, two years in Germany, and a few years in the U.S. Army. And in here, when you go to Flagler's restaurant across the street from Breakers, I'm sure you've been to Breakers many, many times, and when you go to Mar-a-Lago, and for

the judge to say that's an $18 million property and all the stuff that anybody that buys a house or property assessment appraisal know you defrauded people from money, but everybody got their money, that's a little bit of even Forbes said it's worth $450 million. Even CNN after he was found guilty that he had to pay the money, even CNN came back and he said, on a fire sale he can sell this property for $250 to $350 million. There's a little bit of manipulation there. While I'm sure a guy like me, I'm not a political guy, I'm a business guy. You sit there and you wonder, would I ever do business in New York if you worry if somebody

disagrees with your politics? What do you think about the way they handled and telling him and the rest of America that Mar-a-Lago is only an $18 million property? Well, you know, Mar-a-Lago is an interesting place. I've never been there, but I've seen pictures of it. And, you know, the fact is that maybe that property was undervalued by the court. But, you know, the heart of that case really revolved about the change in the square footage of his personal apartment from 10,000 square feet to 30,000 square feet.

People around him went to jail for that discrepancy. So in the case that Letitia James brought, who knows what's going to happen on appeal, but it's hard to accept the fact that almost everybody around him is either gone to prison or is coming out of prison or has been pardoned by him, but he's done nothing wrong. So I really don't want to get into a discussion about Donald Trump. And listen, you're a New York man and you're a tough guy. You're one of the best at the game. You've been around for decades.

Everybody knows who you are. So when things come up like this, they're going to ask you. It's a natural question to ask and I know it doesn't make you feel comfortable to ask that and I can respect it. But Ben, you're not a lightweight. You're one of the best in the space here. So let's get into the issue of Diddy. Right now, I'm curious from your end.

I talked to a handful of my guys. Guys that are defending Diddy, okay? I think we just had a conversation with Suge Knight a couple days ago. He called him from jail and we had a very friendly conversation. I just had Dame Dash here a couple days ago and we had him on the podcast. I'm talking to a lot of guys on the hip hop side that are on Diddy's side. They're defending him. So there's a few different stories here I'm hearing from people that don't support him

to people that support him, that people that are neutral just wanna know what the hell is going on here. Let's go through all of them. So one side is, well, these individuals, these names recently, right, these names keep coming up, whether it's Little Rod or you got, what's her name, Jaguar Wright and Did he stealing from Biggie before his murder or you know? Some are saying there's some videos in every single one of his rooms that 50-cent and you know some of these guys are

Every room you go in there you got to be careful He's got a camera even bodyguards of him saying there's cameras in there and they have so much footage on everybody That's been there or meek mill footage that's gone viral that a lot of people have watched. And then Diddy's house is being raided, one in LA, one in Miami. He's getting on a plane. Where are they taking equipment? What's in the plane? At the same time, he's having a conversation with Justin Bieber.

We've all seen the video there. He's tapping the chest to see if there's any kind of, are you mic'd, are you not? And Bieber's going like this, I'm not. Usher talking about being at his house, Diddy's flavor camp when he was 13 years old, and the five, you know, 13 years old, you're living with a guy that's partying that hardcore at the peak. Cat Williams calling out Diddy, some are calling him the Epstein of the music and the hip hop industry.

Others are saying this whole thing is due to what happened with Sirak because he had the 50% of the profits that he was owed to and that company is a $74, $77 billion company and they owed Diddy $2 billion. This is why behind closed doors they're targeting him and that's what they're doing to him. So these are the things we've read. I'm not in it. You are. What's really going on with Diddy's case here, Ben?

Well, I'm not representing him now. I represented him 20 years ago in the gun case with Jennifer Lopez in the Club New York. And as everybody knows, that case ended after eight weeks in an acquittal on all charges. I represented him in the Cassie Ventura matter, and when she filed her complaint, the case was settled within 24 hours and unbound by a confidentiality agreement. And in this current investigation, I'm just not his lawyer. And I read what you read, and I'm just not his lawyer. And I read what you read and I'm not prepared to comment on what are rumors or speculation or actual facts.

I'm not in the midst, I'm not learning anything from any inside source. So I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm no longer his lawyer. And I was and I was successful at it and at the end of the day I hope he weathers this storm. I'm surprised because he represented you represented him in 99 and you helped him even though later on there's been plenty of girls you know Natanya Rubin

who claimed she would he would always brag that he did shoot and she saw it and he would brag to other people that he did do it. He's always been famous for having a little bit of a big mouth that he likes to brag about the kind of power he has that he's almost like a untouchable gangster that he can get away with anything. He's given that vibe even when he won the deal and then also when you represented him with the Cassie deal with him 48 hours you guys you know what we read 30 million dollars that she was able to get did he come to you to help him out with this at all to represent him or you guys never had the conversation for it for you to

represent him when he got raided I really think that's a conversation I'd rather not have. I wish him well. I saved him in 1999 and if I had not saved him he would not have become the most, maybe one of the most successful African-American entrepreneurs in the history of this country. And now I only wish him well. The reasons for my not being in this case at this time are part of a privileged discussion, if you will. You know, I kind of knew you were going to say that because you're a professional and

I'm the amateur on this side just asking innocent questions. In my mind, it makes me, if I'm a speculator, I'm a guy that speculates, right? I've been in the financial industry since the day before 9-11. I'm the finance guy, I'm the business guy, I'm the entrepreneur. If I'm speculating and if I'm him, I've got a guy that two times in a row has won for me, 100% you're my phone call. But if I'm speculating, you just kind of said, this is not on me. I've helped you the last two times.

I can't help you here. I can visualize a phone call of him begging you to help him and support him because you're very, very good at what you do, very, very good at what you do. And I think at this point, you were a little worried because this got a little bit too dark and maybe you didn't want to participate in this one. You don't have to answer this. It's just purely my speculation as a person on the other side that could, you know, wonder what's really going on here because Cassie Ventura and she is being said

that she's not working with, you know, with the FBI and the feds after she got the 30 million. Again, rumors that we read about, right, in 1999, the shooting and he's been caught on video bragging about the fact that he did it and he got away with it. Maybe you've made the right choice if you said no to him, if you did. And even though you're saying that's confidentiality stuff that you can't tell the rest of us. But one technical question for you. I'm just curious to know if there's any similarities here. Did Didi, by any chance, ask you if he wanted somebody in a skirt like Einstein, like Weinstein asked you about he was

looking for a skirt? Did Didi at all make any kind of request like that? No. Okay. You know, I wonder because a lot of the weird, again, like you've read these videos, because if half of these things are true, man, that's a weird character, if half of these things are true. If one after another after another, these types of things come up and it's ongoing and constant, it makes one wonder. Either he's got some incredible lawyers that protect him, or he really thinks he's untouchable, or it's just a matter of time before his fall is.

And none of us will know until, obviously, law and order, innocent until proven guilty. But sometimes we remain innocent because we have some very good lawyers. Ben, I appreciate you for giving me your time. I know you're a very busy man and I know you got a lot of big things you're working on. Any final thoughts you have here before we wrap up? Yeah, I think I'm glad you're a much better speculator in the financial world because I've read about your extraordinary success. But when it comes to criminal law, sometimes speculation is not helpful.

And, you know, I cross-examined the woman in the Puff Daddy case, who now claims she saw, you know, Puff Daddy shoot her in the face, and the jury obviously did not believe her. So it's interesting that, you know, now 20 years later, you know, she can come back and say, well, you know, I saw him. Well, you know, she sort of, she said that in words of substance in the trial, and I think information is that Puff Daddy was not one of them but a lot of people tried to protect him when the shooting started and that's how sometimes you know bad cases are made so I think I did a good

job in that case but at the end of the day whoever represents him now I wish them well, and I wish him good luck Yeah, I don't think anybody will question how good of a job you're doing you did for him I'm just wondering if he's sitting around saying I wish I had been here next to me because I'm gonna need him more for this One if he by any chance calls you is there any chance you would consider representing him today for anything else? I mean, if things get very ugly, would you consider saying yes to him? He's going to be watching this. If he desperately needs your help, would you go out of your way to help him out? I'll wait for that call before I answer that question. That's what I figured. Again,

maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but the market will decide. And there are just way too many creepy stories tied to Diddy, whether it's from Tupac, Biggie, to all these other things. The market's going to decide what happens to this guy. And hopefully at the end of the day, whoever was taken advantage of, if they were, they'll be able to get their redemption, and if not, the market's gonna do what they're gonna do. Law and order, innocent until proven guilty. Again, Ben, appreciate you for your time. It's

been an honor. I'm always enamored by those who choose to go to this route. I was a kid that was a 1.8 GPA kid in high school. Parents got a divorce a couple times. I probably would have ended up going the legal route, but I went to the army and got into business and financial services. Went a whole different route, but I'm fascinated by the industry you've chosen to be a part of, especially getting to the highest level of your industry. Once again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. My pleasure.

Nice to meet you. Likewise. Take care. Bye bye.