PBD Podcast - OJ Simpson DEAD! Caitlin Clark's Dominance, ESPN Firing & WOKE Disney w/ Sage Steele | PBD Podcast | Ep. 394

Episode Date: April 11, 2024

Patrick Bet-David, Adam Sosnick, Tom Ellsworth, and Vincent Oshana are joined by Sage Steele! Sage Marie Steele is an American television anchor who is the former co-host of the 12 noon SportsCenter on ESPN. She also hosted SportsCenter on the Road from various sporting events such as the Super Bowl and The Masters, and NBA Countdown on ESPN and ABC for four seasons, ending in 2017. MERCH: Buy two PBD Podcast or Valuetainment mugs, get a third FREE! Use promo code "pbdmugs" at checkout: https://bit.ly/3TBAMsq PBD LIVE W/ TULSI GABBARD ON APRIL 25TH: ​​Purchase tickets to PBD Podcast LIVE! w/ Tulsi Gabbard on April 25th: https://bit.ly/3VmuaRm MINNECT: Connect one-on-one with the right expert for you on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3MC9IXE Connect with Patrick Bet-David on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3OoiGIC Connect with Adam Sosnick on Minnect: https://bit.ly/42mnnc4 Connect with Tom Ellsworth on Minnect: https://bit.ly/3UgJjmR Connect with Vincent Oshana on Minnect: https://bit.ly/47TFCXq CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES WISELY: Purchase PBD's Book "Choose Your Enemies Wisely": https://bit.ly/41bTtGD BET-DAVID CONSULTING: Get best-in-class business advice with Bet-David Consulting: https://bit.ly/40oUafz VT.COM: Visit VT.com for the latest news and insights from the world of politics, business and entertainment: https://bit.ly/472R3Mz VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: Visit Valuetainment University for the best courses online for entrepreneurs: https://bit.ly/47gKVA0 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! YOUR NEXT 5 MOVES: Want to be clear on your next 5 business moves? https://bit.ly/3Qzrj3m ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/pbdpodcast/support

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bet David value payment giving values contagious this world of entrepreneurs we can't no value to hate us I ain't running homie look what I become I'm the one Serena is saying what the f*** is wrong with her? GBD? These guys don't get GBD! Alright well episode number 394 with the great Sage Steel which we spent I want to say four, five, six hours at the UFC and we sat there we talked and laughed and saw a bunch of bloods a couple fights people getting knocked out having great conversations history

and then afterwards we said hey hey, let's do a podcast together here. For Sage's background, obviously we know the story. 16 years ESPN, previous to that, Armie Bradt at ESPN, she was one of the faces. She worked at sports centers, she worked at Superbowl, she worked at Masters. I think you worked at Masters as well. All these other things that she did. And then eventually, last August, I think August 2023, we all got the news that no longer would ESPN.

Things happened and then everybody's kind of following the story. And then obviously finally we got her here on the podcast today. Sage, it's great to have you on the podcast. I am so excited to be here. Thank you. Yeah. And I thought the most appropriate question to start off with. We've got a lot of questions to go through.

I think a softball question to start off with. We got a lot of questions to go through. I think a softball question to start off with to see what you're gonna say to this. What is Pam Oliver's dream? Oh my God, I can't go on. Well, I just wanna know. Answer the question please, cause I'm very, I'm out Pam. I'm out.

Pam Oliver's safety, I have to do it. By the way, you know I love you, but when I saw that, I I'm like are you kidding me? It was such a great moment With Dana I'm like are you serious if there's anything that you thought was gonna go viral and what made it even more is Dana's Reaction the best we have to play this clip Clip Rob if you can't go for it Rogan's dream what's Joe Rogan's dream. What's Joe Rogan's dream?

Joe Rogan, Dana White. What's Dana White's dream? I love- Did you think that was Joe Rogan? I totally did. Just call me fucking Joe Rogan. You thought I was fucking Joe Rogan? Yeah, I thought you were Joe Rogan.

I was bald before Joe was ever bald. I know, I know. I just did a two hour fucking podcast. I flew here from Vegas and she thought she was interviewing Joe Rogan. Jesus. Jesus. You know what, Dana?

Don't you just love him? Okay. Okay, so tell us the story. We need to know, yes. What had happened? What had happened? What happened? What happened?

The checking account and the savings account. First of all, first of all. It was a drink. Dana is Amazing and he's become a really really good friend like I have always admired him And now it's another level number one number two that moment happened at the end of an hour and 20 some minute podcast Obviously, I knew who I was talking to I'm the one that booked him for God's sake But like if you look if you, which apparently you all did not yet,

the very beginning, thank you, the very beginning, I was like, what are you drinking? Can I have a sip? He's like, yes, it's Joe Rogan's energy drink. And then we went on to hear that it's elk blood, blah, blah, blah. I was like, what the hell did you have me drink? So Joe Rogan was in my head from the beginning.

I actually think after that moment, I called him Joe immediately, and no one caught it. I didn't catch it, Dana didn't catch it. So then you fast forward to an hour and a half later, and I said it, and literally, I want you to think about that moment though, especially when he just looked at me, Joe Rogan's dream. My heart completely sunk.

It was the best though. I was done. Well, and here's the best part, I think. Number one, he's got such a great sense of humor. He could have walked off, but he knows me, and he knows that I screwed up. But I would like a little love from you guys, for what? I have full editorial control.

I could have cut that out. Oh, for sure, I respect that. I think if you don't laugh at yourself. I was about to say that. That's fantastic. I had fun with it. And oh, by the way, somebody asked me yesterday, actually Dave Rubin asked me yesterday,

he was like, okay, you're great actress. Let me go actress Do you think I would do that on purpose look like an ass on purpose? No, that was completely organic and then he told the story about how he Mandel being confused for how he Mandel He didn't know that my studio was in how he Mandel studio How he Mandel literally walked in he had no I like the whole thing was unplanned swear to God And I just am grateful that he still loves me and that he was like sage. Are you kidding me? Howie Mandel literally walked in, he had no idea, like the whole thing was unplanned, swear to God. And I just am grateful that he still loves me and that he was like, Sage, are you kidding me?

You keep that in there. Well, Sage, thank you for that explanation because I thought that you thought that a certain type of people all look the same. So I was like, what? Right, fall, people. You know, but no, honestly these but you know what though that is why people love podcasts because there is an element of Too perfect on TV that everything is presented so perfectly

teleprompter and Cutting this and cutting that and you don't leave the embarrassing moment and sometimes there's no way in the world You're gonna be doing podcast interview shows and not have moments. We've all had it you're gonna continue having them and the audience loves it If you cut that out sometime, that's the best part We used to at the end of the clips that I used to do the team had a little bit too much fun with this My English I would always get some he always makes fun of the way I pronounce certain words And so they would leave the spoof at the end for 30 seconds of everything I got wrong and the

audience would wait just to comment on all the errors I made. But it was funny, it was a great moment for TV. You've got to be comfortable with yourself. And by the way, I've got three kids. I mix up my kids' names all the time and I know my kids, I think. Plus, I think it's age. Once you're a certain age, and once you've been canceled 65 times, go for it. Leave it in there. I don't care. So Sage, for some people that don't know, what

happened with the exit with ESPN? We've heard so many different stories. Obviously we watch it. We know it. But what happened with the exit with ESPN? A lot. So how do I summarize it quickly? Listen, it had been years of kind of buildup, I think, where everyone was saying, yeah, go ahead, do you, everybody be yourself and say what you want. And all of the things political that used to be kind of untouchable don't go there, especially in a sports network, which is what I prefer.

Like I'm a sports caster. My politics, my opinions actually don't matter as a journalist. And then all of a sudden pandemic happened and George Floyd happened. And then the genie was out of the bottle and you couldn't put it back in where everybody was saying whatever they wanted. I was asked on a podcast on a day off, you know, Jay Cutler's podcast.

It's not like I was on ESPN platforms and asked about a couple of things that meant something to me in my life, which happened to be my racial makeup. My mom is white, Irish Italian, like get out of the way when Mona Steele walks in the room. Irish Italian, like big time. And then my dad's black. And so I, years ago, you guys like to talk about the view. Years ago on the view. Great show, very emotional.

Yeah. Good morning. Yes. So, go ahead, you were saying. They like to base things on facts. They're so classy. Yeah. Yeah, right. Big John Sparrow fans.

Big. Big time. So, long story short, Barbara Walters asked me 10 years ago it is now about why I didn't choose to identify as black like the current president at that time. And I was like, well, I am more than that or I'm half black, half white. And I'm so proud of my entire family. I think that that defines diversity in America, right? I mean, most of us are mixed with something now, but why would I exclude my mom? And my joke that wasn't meant to be funny,

but like it's kind of, I'm pretty sure my white mom was there the day I was born. Like, I'm pretty sure she was there. I've done that childbirth thing and I know I was there. I still feel it 20 years later. So I got, you know, in trouble, canceled for saying, no, I'm biracial. And then she said, well, we'll look at the president.

I was like, well, good for him. He was raised by a white mother and white grandmother and his black father was nowhere to be found. So the fact that he's not identifying with any part of that white side to me, I don't love, but he has a right to do whatever. These days, my daughter's high school, you can say you're a cat today and that's acceptable.

So do what you want. I am choosing to identify with all of me and not pick a side. And then that turned into sage deal things. Barack Obama is a sellout and shouldn't identify as black. And so people could take that how they wanted. But then with that, in combination with my comments on the vaccine at that point, September, October, 2021, ESPN Disney, it was mandated that we took a back. I felt like they were kind of piling on with that comment because you look back at people that are multiracial. Tiger Woods refused to be put in a box. He invented a word, Calabasian.

Remember that word he created? Think of me of Calabasian. My mom's Thai, my dad's his. He said, don't put me in a box. And his mom even called him, I think called him the universal child. And so why is it that suddenly you don't take a stand, but there have been all these precedents, but it's because I think we live in a devised world and they want you to take one stand or another sometimes for their position. If I had said, no offense, mom, I am black, I'd be fine. If I had said all you anti-vaxxers out there go to hell, I would have been fine. But because I said, I don't believe I should be forced to put something into my body that has not

had nearly enough research, it doesn't take much more than a Google search to know that the FDA takes an average of six to nine years to approve a vaccine. This became political too quickly. I didn't like what I was seeing. I just wanted to wait. But in order to keep my job at ESPN Disney, I had to get it. and I was devastated over that so when I said a global company like Disney I think it's sick and scary to mandate it that plus the race comments about how I choose to identify that was that was the beginning of the end so you know it's funny Tom when you say Tiger Woods says he's a combination yeah so he officially in other words he's Armenian because I

know Tiger was Armenian he said Armenian because I didn't know that was Armenian but that's a great combination but going back to this so So you you took the vaccine and then you're sitting there talking about the fact I had literally just come from getting the shot like 30 minutes prior. I was hot. Oh, you gotta be kidding me So he got you 30 minutes after you got it I it just was a coincidence I was planned it I had planned on going on a show and I knew his publicist and Jay had just started the show. And so he was, you know, would you come on? He needs a woman. I'm like, sure.

I've covered him. You know, why not? And that was the last possible day to get the shot in order to be, quote, fully vexed by September 30th, 2021. So I waited to the last second. I was so this close to not doing it and potentially getting fired because I felt so strongly about just not feeling comfortable with what it was And so I had gone to the stupid grocery store Pharmacy to get this shot in order to keep my job and I was very emotional because I felt like a sellout I felt like I was letting myself down and my kids down when I tell them to stand up for what they believe in But I am a single mom

And I have three college age get next year year I got all three in college at once. What? I need my job. I love my job and I loved it till the last day you guys. So I had no choice in that way if I needed to support the three kids. And again, I've been 100% the wage earner my entire marriage and since so You don't just walk away, and that's why I understand people's fears for standing up Yeah, but at that moment I had just come from there And then yes, I had the bandaid on my shoulder not even knowing I'd not even remembering and I I was running hot And I actually held back a lot

For what I really wanted to say but no matter what I'll stand by it today, and it obviously was quite costly But to force someone, you know, my body, my choice is only when it's convenient, apparently. And that's where I was like, I'm done. If they had had then stopped there, like, okay, suspend me, take me off the air for 10, 15 days, whatever it was, publicly apologize, issue a statement, then I didn't know they were going to crush me with another statement, and then take assignments away from me. That's when I thought, wait a minute. It's one thing to be punished, it's another thing to continue, most importantly, while my peers are doing what?

Going on ESPN platforms, talking about how devastated they were that Roe versus Wade got overturned on an NBA show, having a moment of silence on women's college hoops during the NCAA tournament to mourn what was happening in Florida, the Don't Say Gay bill, where those words aren't even in the bill. So if we're allowing that and encouraging that by producers and management to have them talk about those issues on sports programming live, but I can't talk about my own opinions on a podcast that has nothing to do with ESPN. That's where I say, which one is it?

It isn't just some who get to speak. It's diversity of thought and you can't pick and choose based on the narrative of your company. And so that was what the lawsuit was about. By the way, freedom of speech not under constitution for government. The state of Connecticut has a particular statute that protects employees. You are allowed to speak up and criticize your employer even if you are complying with the rules. I got the damn shot. I was complying and I can still have an opinion. So that's where the lawsuit came from. And that's why we ended up, you

know, what I was going to ask you on this exact topic right here, because you brought up obviously the backstage situation. Prior to that, you brought up 2020, the bubble in ESPN, obviously owned by Disney, Rhonda Santis, where woke goes to die. Welcome to Florida, diversity of thought. We see the DEI agenda. You can be DEI anything, but a diversity of thought that's against the narrative or against the message is a fireball offense apparently. So during the bubble, you were covering that.

The NBA bubble in Orlando. NBA bubble, exactly. Social justice movement, everyone's wearing the thing, everyone has their message. Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, you're at the middle of this as a apparently black reporter, half white, half black. How much of that weighed into all this? Because there was one player that I recall, Jonathan Isaac, who said, look, I'm just, you know, I love God. I'm not going to play into this narrative. I just want to play ball.

So you were, I assume, covering NBA at this point, the bubble, NBA bubble sports center. I remember that. How much of that is just you hit it you hit it on the head which is Diversity of opinion not diversity for the sake of diversity how much factored into that all of it I think and you listen with what happened with Jonathan Isaac and I've gotten to know him quite well since and what a lovely Young man who's displayed such courage that day and you remember how he got crushed for being a black man He said I want to stand the country means something to me, etc And then what happened the next day? He went up for a rebound, came down, blew out his knee. And the Twitter verse went nuts, celebrating his injury.

And he's what 22 years old. You should have kneeled bro, that whole thing. Just because they disagreed with his stance. So it only goes one way. All of it played into it. I will say, Ivan posted the black square right after that. I didn't believe in it, but I posted it because I felt that pressure, right? I think so many, I know many, many people who did the same thing,

and to me it's like, no, I don't care if you're green or blue or if you're a guy or a girl today, tomorrow, cat, dot, I don't care. But if we're going to preach about diversity, it can't just go one way, and it has to begin with diversity of thought. And I'm just, it took years, but now I'm done, obviously. Did you speak with Bob Iger during that time? No, I haven't spoken with him in years. Have you ever had an interaction with him? How was he?

He was always great. He was always great. Years ago, and I think he's brilliant in so many ways, obviously quite successful. And he's done a pretty good job, I think, the last several years have not been great. And there have been specific decisions that, I mean, he's the CEO, that he has made,

that all of the employees must comply with, even if you don't agree. And I know many managers who didn't agree with a lot of the things that we were told to do. But when you choose, listen, you're the ultimate businessman. And when you pick a side in business, like to me, Michael Jordan said it, Republicans buy sneakers too. Don't you want everyone watching your programming?

Why are we dividing? Why are we choosing to only report certain things? And that's where I mean, I struggled for years, and then it builds, builds, builds to a certain point and then you can't be quiet Especially when you you know, like as a parent this was bigger than just me. I have these three kids who are older They're not like six eight years old. That's different when they're babies You can shield them, but they're watching me preach to them to stand up and then I go silent So I don't know what everyone's line is. It's a very personal decision, especially when

I don't know what everyone's line is. It's a very personal decision, especially when Finances are involved in jobs and cancellation, right? I I am the poster child for why people should stay quiet would Bob Iger not anymore I'm sorry Iger would Bob Iger is is it is it when you saw him making some decisions for Disney That made no sense. So he has a right of a lifetime incredible crushes it read read the book great story So he has a right of a lifetime. Incredible. Crushes it. Read the book. Great story. At one point he wanted to run for president. He's doing the deal with Murdoch. And they're asking him the question,

are you going to run for president? No. But he says he was thinking about it. He was going to run for office. His family has, you know, politically they've been on the left. And he always wanted to kind of possibly one day run. Anyways, do you think some of the decisions that was made at Disney was it more him or was it more Shepak or was it more the board? Who was it?

Or was it maybe even Kathleen? You mean during that time? During the woke, like Disney went from being Disney, we all watch Disney, the go-to valuation wise I think at one point peak is $360 billion or at $180 right now, give or take. $180. $180. They drop from, we can see, so I want to give the number correctly, what's their market cap today? 215 today?

Can you go to the history of their market? They went from 360 to 215. But from the person, or you may even say, I don't even, I'm not on the inside, but when you guys talk to one another, when Bob left, was it it shape egg or was Bob still running it was at the board What do you think of what it to me the the? Timing is fascinating because Bob Iger if you recall suddenly stepped away. It was like February of 2020 Mm-hmm. When did the pandemic hit Mars? He's a smart man, I think there's a lot of obvious ties with Disney and China

Literally, this is just my random opinion. I just don't think it was a coincidence that the timing for him to suddenly retire and then the pandemic hits. And then he appoints Bob Chapick, who'd been one of his right-hand men for years and years, I mean, 20 plus 30 years maybe, to run everything. Bob Iger never went away. I mean, he was still even tweeting without a lot of things about Disney, et cetera. I believe he was on the board. So if you're on a board, there's a lot of decisions that are being made, right?

I mean, it isn't just the CEO, he has to get the board approval. And if he's on that board, for example, what was happening in Florida and the decision, I believe, again, this is my recollection that Chapick initially was against going against the state of Florida and this don't say gay thing and Ron DeSantis. I know that he was more about not mixing politics with business, just as the ESPN newer president,

Jimmy Patara, was as well. And then everything went nuts and, you know, they had no choice seemingly. Maybe that was, again, above the ESPN president with that came from Disney but when when the former CEO the longtime CEO brilliant CEO who's had a ton of success is still on the board. While all this is going on and all of a sudden they go from, we're not going to touch Florida to now we're going to crush Florida. And then, I mean you're in the middle of a pandemic, chapec, how would you like to take over that kind of a company during that time? No one wants to, right? Then we get out of the pandemic, things start to turn up, and all of a sudden Chapick's out and Bob's back in. So I don't know.

I mean, listen, there's a part of me that's like, it's almost scary to talk about, to be honest with you. But just from not even an insider's, an outsider's perspective, when you look at the timeline, I think that there's some questions to be asked Chapix gone I don't know that that was a great departure from what I read You know and Bob's back in to the rescue. Is it being rescued right now? I don't know there been some decisions along the way especially just with programming when my kids were little the Disney Channel was like the place to go where it was

Innocence and safe. yes safe and just so many beautiful memories from when we were kids you know and now I have so many people who come up to me and say what the hell has happened and why it wasn't necessary just like Michael Jordan said just like with with anything I want everybody to buy my product not just one side it's wild when that took place and Rob I'm gonna do something if you can pull up. Sage Steel is officially also on Manect. So if you wanted to ask her any questions, one thing about Manect is if you message on

Manect, you will get a respond back on Manect versus the other platforms. Sage gets probably thousands of messages, so she cannot get back to everything. But there's a lot of things going on. So if you support Sage or if you have any questions for her, use that QR code, go on Manek, ask her questions, she'll respond back to you. Going back with us... Thank you for that, by the way, because it's such a cool concept and platform, and I hate not being able to respond to people.

You know, I think it's brilliant. Yeah, great. We're great. We're glad to have you, and I think I can't wait to see the response from the audience asking the questions and Even getting a chance to maybe have some thoughts that there are sometimes you watch a podcast You're like I would have asked that I would have asked this well if we didn't ask a question This is your chance point. So go did you know who Dana White was?

Let me know I'm gonna have to cut and paste a hundred thousand Use the voice. There's a voice, you can respond in voice text. That's the way to do it. That's the way to do it, yeah. So going back to Disney, with where it's at today, you know, when you're with an organization for 16 years, and you leave, you have affinity.

You're not there for a year, you know, three years. It's not like a, yeah, resume, boom years It's not like a yeah resume boom next. Yeah resume boom next It's like that's longevity 16 years when you're you're at an organization. Yeah, that's that's one's you know, you're there This is you are ESPN. You're part of ESPN How much of working at ESPN behind closed doors did you guys speak because some people, I'm like, I used to watch Broussard a lot. He's not there anymore. I used to watch this guy a lot. What happened to those guys?

Is there something that happens that if you're politically different than what they believe in, is there opportunity simply because of what you favor and what you don't? And those groups who are maybe on the conservative side, do some of the people say, well look, say, you and I, we're not on the same page, but I've got to pay the bills. My kids are going to this and I've got to make this money and that and that. There's no way the world can say anything right now. But I'm with you. But please don't tell anybody that I told you that. Does that happen at ESPN as well, the same way it happens in Hollywood? There's a lot of whispering.

There is. A lot of whispering and like texts. And you can't say it out loud. And now listen, if you're on the other side, you can't sit in the makeup room without hearing it from the other talent for sure, who are empowered to go off on it and to rip on Republicans or conservatives. And most of the people who I know felt differently and maybe more in the middle center, right?

Just would stay quiet. And then it got to the point where like around me, people wouldn't say anything You know, I did are there people who are in favor because of their politics and their leanings I think absolutely if I had stayed quiet I'd still be rolling. I am I contract still wouldn't have been up by now But again, you have to ask yourself at what cost. I did have a couple of people, certainly.

I already knew who they were, right? And they would text me, I love you, I wish I could right now, I wish I could. And I get it, I get it. But I'm also kind of blown away, because they're all men. I'm like, hey boys, where are you? How am I the only one out here? And by the way, you

got NFL money. Like all those guys have a lot more money than I will ever have from having played for years and years in NBA guys too. So that's where I find it interesting. And maybe like most importantly right now for one of the today's hot topic is like the transgender sports issue. And these men that I work with have daughters who are very competitive and good athletes. And I know damn well that if they had to, their daughters had to oppose a man, a boy on the other side of the volleyball net or the basketball court, that's not happening. Like they'd go down there and make a scene. So to be quiet about it, it's not even about, you know, race, which is sensitive or COVID or the vaccine. This is black and white with science. I mean, since the beginning of time, we know the difference

between men and women and the different strengths that men have. And all these men are staying silent. So I, I am disappointed, but I also, I get it. There is a legitimate reason to fear speaking up. It's very personal, but I just, I will say it's, it is pretty lonely. Now this isn't a woe is me because I don't care anymore. It just took years to get there and years of feeling like I couldn't be myself. And if only I thought like this, I would be celebrated. Like I was the highest paid woman at that network. Like I would have, I would have kept going forever. Hopefully my, when I, I'll shut up after this. I started there you guys my kids were 11 months 2 and 4 My youngest daughter turns 18 on Saturday 18 20 and 22. So that's all they've known

That's all I've known and that was my dream since I was a kid So I didn't get off on like oh, let me go blow somebody up and blow up a company. It was devastating Yet it was the right thing for me based on all the years where I was forced to Adapt to what someone else wanted those men You know some people have enough of a platform to say something and and right on the vac saying Pat McAfee was unafraid to have Aaron Rodgers on his podcast which came over to ESPN Knowing that Pat is unafraid to speak from his platform and And yet, they even came down to stifle him, but Pat wasn't having it.

He was very critical, he kind of went along with the one day or two day suspension, whenever it was, in Aaron Rodgers. But then he named names. Then he said, Norby is the guy. Norby is the guy, and everything from Corp-It. And said, there's a guy from Corp-It down here,

and it's Norby, and he is trying to manipulate all this. You wanna play the clip? That's a very good transition. Go ahead ahead Rob. We're very appreciative and we understand that more people are watching this show than ever before. We're very thankful for the ESPN folks being very hospitable. Now there are some people actively trying to sabotage us from within ESPN. More specifically, I believe Norby Williamson is the guy who is attempting to sabotage our program.

Look at AJ's face. Yeah, he was north on the phone. That's just seemingly the only human that has information and then somehow that information gets leaked and it's wrong and then it sets a narrative of what our show is and then are we just going to combat that from a rat every single time? I don't know. But like somebody tried to get ahead of our actual ratings released with wrong numbers 12 hours beforehand. That's a sabotage attempt. And

it's been happening basically this entire season from some people who didn't necessarily love the old edition of the Pat McVie show to the ESPN family. Sure. You can pause a lot. So do you agree with them? Yes. Did you have similar experience with Norby? I've known Norby from day one and he just left last week after 40 years in company. I believe that was kind of the final nail in the coffin for Norby when Pat McAfee went on and said that. Now there's a couple of things. Number one, I texted with Pat that day. I was like, you go. And because he was speaking for a lot of people made me sad because I knew Norby as a person. And I knew that his heart was very different from some of the decisions that he made. But I'll also say this, as much as I absolutely agree with

a lot of the things Pat said, as far as just behind the scenes, I don't know that Norby was the one that, you know, influencing numbers or being untruthful about. I don't know. What I, what I do know is that even though all of us agree with Pat, I thought it was fascinating that when have you ever seen an employee and this, in our industry go on the air and name names and not just name names, but call that executive. He's been there for 40 years, a and then he doubled down a couple days later And then he posted a picture with Norby's new boss Burke Magnus and Burke allowed that picture to be posted I mean, so when you see them not punishing him for it because even if you agree with what the guy said you guys It's still kind of unacceptable for someone to publicly call out a boss at the company by name and call him a name

They let it slide. No punishment. Still went to the national championship game a couple days later. What does that tell you? If nothing's done to that person, by the way, I did a fraction of that and I was out, right? So I think the principle of it was wrong. Like you got, if you say that you got to be held accountable, but they did nothing to him.

And at that point I was like, Norby's out. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that is that they did nothing to him and at that point I was like nor be that why do you think that is why do you think? That is that they did nothing to him. Well. I think there's other people that that were Realized it was probably time for Norby to go and we thought for years it might be happening But also when you're Pat McAfee you have control What is it 18 million bucks a year? So the only people that you've been that make that money are Joe Buck Troy Aikman Steve in a is a few million behind them So when Pat comes in and knows he's got that power, that's that F-U money in many ways.

You know what I mean? You got that power, you're going to say, what are they going to do? Take them off when he's got this huge contract. So he used his power in a way that we have never seen before in this industry and look what just happened. And by the way, Burke Magnus, he's been with ESPN 25 years. Forever. How is he?

I like Burke. Okay, got it. I mean, listen, they're all taking orders from others. Bob, all the way at the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I like Burke. I like his family a lot and I hope he does great. And again, there's so many really good people behind the scenes.

There's a lot of things I don't agree with. I'm sure Burke was supportive of sidelining me, suspending me. I don't know. And you know what? I don't care. Like they made their decision. I was friends with a lot of these people for a very long time. I haven't heard from the soul. And that's even after almost 17 years. And that it's okay. They all have families to support as well and to protect I just think at some point like on principle So many people are weak Weak yeah, and and it's not just Disney SPN you kidding me. It's everywhere Yeah, and the fact about other good no what I wanted to ask in Vinny. I'll come to but here's what I want Tom this a question for you as well and sage both of you Because you've Tom Tom Tom is the living Wikipedia. Okay, literally

So here's a question Disney bought ESPN in 96, right? I'm just looking at it right now Through the purchase of capital cities ABC in 96. So that's 28 years ago, right? Obviously you weren't then there then because you were there when you know 17 years ago because you were there when you know 17 years ago because you were there for 16 years and it's been yeah so so if you think about it how much do you think like was the older ESPN better than a newer ESPN and I wonder who is there to ask the question of that's been there for that many years I'm sure you probably talked to the guys on the inside

how different was the old ESPN until they were bought by Disney? Yeah with that I don't know Some of the true legends like Bob Lee who I think lives down here in South every everybody once you leave a spin you get The hell out of Connecticut Exactly on the way. I'll be here full-time in like five months you guys. I'll be your neighbor. I love about time, right? Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. It was a different era. And remember, there were some books written as well about the quote-unquote good old days, not really at ESPN, and just what was happening behind the scenes, some inappropriate things. There's been a lot on that. And so I think it's better in many ways as far as, you know, listen,

HR departments are legit now at ESPN. I don't think that they were back in the day like with many corporations. But it's very different from when I started even in 2007. Looking at it from the outside, there were three chapters of ESPN. There is this wonderfully disruptive rebellious little channel that came up with Chris Berman giving nicknames to baseball players and it grew. And then people said, oh, this is a beautiful, unpolished diamond. I'm going to buy it so it gets bought. And then it goes into this heyday of growth being an absolute money machine for Disney ABC. And then it kind of peaks and it gets caught in the transition from cable and satellite

and streaming. And ESPN has been losing subscribers and losing the ability to extort, I mean negotiate with cable operators for the carry fees. So what that means is suddenly ESPN now has to start managing and operating as a mature business including costs and then a whole bunch of ex-athletes that they say, well, they weren't exactly pulling on every show so we're going to to and it didn't matter if they were athletes just ESPN had a cost issue because of the the subscriber losses and ESPN the magazine came and went it peaked out then it became a cost problem and so it was it was shut down and ESPN magazine was a great magazine had long-form

articles like Vanity Fair and stuff ESPN the body you would see that the bodies of athletes and what they the bodies of athletes and what they went through to maintain themselves it was just incredible but they lost it because they couldn't make any money on it and now you end up now where ESPN is trying to find its way forward and at the Allen Conference two years ago this is trying to sell them though I was trying to sell ESPN and to the point that ESPN right now I believe has bitten the hand that fed it they've gone behind the leagues to make a like a unified sports

Channel in in concert with I believe it's Fox and NBC They're coming together to do that and the leagues don't like this because that means that they're not all competing with each other And the leagues don't like this because that means that they're not all competing with each other because you used to bring NBC and ABC In and say who is going to pay you a billion point X for the Olympics and get them against each other if they're all together That can't happen So right now ESPN is trying to find a financial future in the middle of streaming wars and it's having an impact meanwhile all Of the woke stuff comes down in the middle of this and creates all these situations. And this is just my analysis from the outside, looking at the financial arc. What would you add?

That's a lot. You are definitely the historian. I tried to compress it. Well, but the streaming thing, I mean, I was listening to a lot of those conversations for years and down at some of the meetings with potential sponsors and advertisers in Orlando, probably 2017, 2018, and speaking and emceeing there. And that was definitely a concern. And you had some people who were like, were over, at the time the president's CEO was John Skipper. And then his time there ended unceremoniously.

And he was talking all about, you know, oh, this is this is not as big of a deal. And, you know, calm down. We aren't losing losing that many numbers. And people other people were in the room were like, Really? Like, this ain't going away. It's like when Bill Gates said the internet's not going to be a big thing. Yeah. Oops. Exactly. So listen, they've been aware and trying to battle and fight and do the right thing. I think one of the, well, the reason we all know the reason that ESPN is still relevant and I think will be is because of programming. When you have live programming like that and you are, you know, paying whatever it is, you can look it up real quick for the

college football playoff and the national championship and also like the NBA finals on ABC and ESPN. I mean, when you are crowning those on your air and just all the college football playoff and the national championship and also like the NBA finals on ABC and ESPN. I mean, when you are crowning those on your air and just all the college football programming every single Saturday. Well, now it's Thursday, Friday, Saturday, right? People will go to watch you even if they don't like you because you have that programming. They finally got a Super Bowl coming up. When is it?

27, 28, something like that. So really, ESPN secured a Super Bowl coming up. When is it? 27, 28, something like that. So programming. Really? Yes, it's been secured a Super Bowl? Yes, it's been, yeah, yeah. It's one of the reasons why Joe Buck and Troy Aikman are here as well. I don't know which happened first, chicken or the egg there. But yeah, so you must pay billions of dollars for those broadcast rights in order to remain

relevant. And they've been able to do that more so than you know Fox and NBC for especially with the college football playoff There is a lot of hang on to that in the middle of all that there is a rumor PBD when NFL Sunday ticket was going away from AT&T because AT&T owned DirecTV and after 25 years Sunday ticket was the reason that people would get direct TV outside of Omaha where you didn't have good cable and you can get every single game and

That got diluted and there was a rumor that ESPN was the lead bidder until YouTube Swooped in and paid mega bucks and took it so there are these two new competitors Amazon and YouTube That were also stepping into the gap. Yeah. While we're on the topic of ESPN, thoughts on working with Jason Whitlock, because I know there was a feud between Jason and Stephen A,

and you've worked with both of them. I didn't get to work real hands on with Jason. I think he was never on Sports Center, et cetera. I worked with Stephen A. a hundred times, especially during the NBA Finals on the road. I always loved it because you could throw anything at him. He was certainly entertaining and challenging too. Yeah, yeah. But we had a good relationship because, you know, I wasn't afraid to go back at him, you know, like just because as a basketball fan to have those

conversations and by the way, I love Jason Whitlock. I respect the hell out of him because he says and does things that nobody else will, especially in the black community. And he's hated for it. But to me, like you, you gotta at least listen, even if you disagree. With Jason, obviously these were the comments that Stephen A made about Jason. Go ahead, Rob.

And please do not allow this to be a reflection on my character because this is now how I act every day But I mean it from my soul when I say this is the worst human being I've ever known I don't know of another human being worse Than Jason will lock He is a piece of shit I don't know of another human being worse than Jason Willock He is a piece of shit He's the dude that's gonna have a funeral and Ain't gonna be no Paul Berris She's you can you can probably two people to show up now. I've listened to Stephen a for

Shoot, I can you've had a moment. Oh, yeah, we talk regular Yeah, but but the point is he's been on a couple times, but I've never seen him this angry about anybody. And he's had things that happen. When you first saw this happen, obviously this was a couple months ago, this is not a recent story that happened last week. What was your initial reaction when you saw this? I was sad. Really? Tell me why.

I think Stephen A's better than that. Why? Why do that? Funny thing is Jason was kind of doing his job. He was reviewing a book that Stephen A wrote and there were some things in there that Stephen A wrote that he's like really? Well, this doesn't add up. Like what is this? Wait, if you say you average one and a half points, we only played in one game and like whatever. He reviewed the book and had some questions about it so I think number one it's sad because It's just never to me necessary to go to that level like I mean really like when you die

There's not many pallbearers at your funeral worst human ever. It's okay. Stephen a has a platform He says and does whatever he wants and I respect him for it even if I disagree with his ways sometimes but number two I'm trying to be careful, but why? No one's going to fire me, right? Finally, like. Is it a personal thing with Jason? Obviously, because if that's me and someone reviewed something that I wrote in a book or even said, and they were wrong about it, about their take, I would address the issue. I would say, wait, Jason, let me tell you why you're wrong in questioning me. Here's

the facts. And like go back, Adam, for what Jason was bringing up instead, there was no mention of what Jason was pointing out in the book, the inconsistencies. It just went personal. Like if I'm, if I accused somebody of doing something and you didn't do it What's the person you're gonna say to me? It's like proof that yeah proof. So instead of my proof, right? So instead of saying let me show you the proof Because he had a right to view the review of the book. He instead just went personal and ignored That jason's whole point in the first place. So to me That's interesting if nothing else, but I overall I love ste I love Stephen a I love what he I love where he comes from Something doesn't talk about as much. I mean he does with his sisters and his mother and who he is in his core

Like that's not that's not the Stephen a that I love but Can I ask you a personal question? I like I like when is it about this? Yes specifically about this So Stephen a let me frame this huge sports sports fan, or at least I was. I played college football, grew up on sports, love watching sports, ESPN Sports Center, I probably watched you, Stephen A Smith, a billion times. I can't tell you the last time I watched Sports Center, not for reasons other than I just think there's more important things in life at this point. We're starting to see Stephen a delve into the political world and he's Choosing his words wisely so to speak

Especially, you know went on ESPN platform, but you know when he's on his own podcast He's kind of talking that talk how much of you realize since leaving the sports world that there's just more important things for you to focus on finances politics family world that there's just more important things for you to focus on finances, politics, family, culture issues. Like how much sports do you even watch? Your question has to do with Steven A and Whitlock? Yeah, like he's focusing on other things other than just sports. This clearly is personal to me. But from a macro perspective... I want to stay on this. We'll go to that. That's not about this question. I do love that question.

Yeah, we'll come back to that. But let me let me stay on this question here So with Stephen and and and Whitlock so with with Stephen a I don't I don't see a lot of other sports guys That dislike him in the space now, you know when he tells a story, I like how he says I call my pastor I called this I call my sisters. I even called Bob to say hey I'm not gonna you know It's gonna be a little bit bad and he at least took the steps to go through that for him to make the comments he made about Jason now it's not on an ESPN platform so it's on but still he knows he's representing the brand respect right but there's definitely a separation right and he knows he can say whatever he wants you're not using that

language on an ESPN platform you know what I mean so I think he and he's that's in his contract To be able to do it separately right to say YouTube's over here my podcast my platforms here But I agree you still are representative of the brand representing the brand yeah And I think he's you know he he knows he's about to get a you know big payday come in his way I think he's deserving of it. I think he's deserving of, you know, if he's going to get the 20 plus, I think he's deserving of it if they pay them. By the way, that could set the tone as well for the marketplace for how hard this guy's worked

and how available he's been for so many years, right? And he's been the face of ESPN. I want to know what he has to say, right? And then on the other side with Jason I was by the way real quick if Pat McAfee is making 18 This guy and you can hear it in his voice and you can see it on his tweets He's keeping score of everything. He's like, oh you think this guy's work He even made it about race recently which bothered me because he said that well You know, I have to work a lot harder as a black man compared to Pat McAfee White man with 18 million. So so I think that he's keeping score and so to your point about 20 20 mil easily Oh, I think he's for sure easily paid that money and well deserving now in regards to black men and all that stuff

I'm not when they go that route I'm not I'm not a fan of that But I also can see how Jason probably plays the game of trying to be a troll and trying to get under his skin. And in this situation, to be honest with you, Jason won. In what way? Because nobody follows Jason anymore. Jason's no longer at the level that he used to be where he was getting the eyeballs before, but he's the number one guy, A so Stephen A actually brought eyeballs to him

Then the other way around so this is when a guy attacks up and you get the up to attack you down the guy at The bottom attacking up actually wins good point because you just brought made him relevant that other people are reacting to so this is a this is a W for Jason in the context of Choosing your enemies why yeah, you know how Jake Paul gets the guys above him to get irritated or Connor or some of this stuff. In this context, he wins. But when it comes on to finances, winning financially free the face, history, legacy, all this stuff, Stephen, it's dominated Jason in that kind of.

I do wish that people would listen more to Jason. People are like, Oh, of course, you're gonna say that you're a right wing. No, he's super smart. And if you listen to the points he makes, and yes, quite often they're race related and about the black community or certain athletes or or not. He makes points that make you think. So I think that when I and I know this one of the reasons why you say, you know, he doesn't have the following that he did in the past well, certainly but Which way does social media lean? Oh big-time left? Oh huge. So they're gonna make sure Oh a hundred percent. I feel that's and let me let me tell you why I don't know about that

I've listened to Jason for many years and I'm talking back in the days I think Jason is very smart very and I think Jason says a lot of things that, you know, is very needed. Alienate. Needed, necessary. But I do think Sage, like for example, I don't know who you are, meaning from, I know who you are, I've known you for years, you've only known me for a minute because we sat next to each other at UFC. I knew who you were before I sat next to you. at UFC. I knew you were before I

sat next to you. I totally get it but what I mean by that is like I've known you a lot longer than you've known me right so I followed your career a lot longer than you've known me and then I sit next to you I'm like okay let me see how she is. You know how much I enjoyed our conversation that night we had such great time together you and the guy you the guy, our Italian mobster lawyer buddy. I freaking love the guy. He's like a cousin. He's the guy I just want to go.

He fully does, by the way. He fully does. But I'm sitting there and I walk, you know when I walk away and I said, I like her. Oh my gosh, she's so cool because sometimes you win people over more off camera and you lose people off camera more than on camera. You can act here, but then how are you off camera? I liked you off camera. And I walked in and I say, remember this?

I'm like, what a freaking cool cat. We could talk to her for hours. She was so cool, right? To me, the only feedback I would give to, I've had a lot of guys that have worked with our company, business, insurance, different things, and I have guys that are right. Your argument is right, but there's a book written 80, 90 years ago

by this guy named Dale Carnegie, who says, how to win friends and influence people. You can persuade more if you can be a little bit likeable. You have to be like, you know, when it comes on to selling your ideas, you got to be likeable, you got to be trusting and you got to give facts. Jason brings the facts. Sometimes, you know, maybe he needs to read how to win and I'm sure he's going to react to this and give whatever he's going to say.

Deep down inside, Jason, while you do your reaction video and you try to trash my argument and say we're boys and all this other stuff, privately without telling anybody, go read How to Win Friends and Influence People. I think it would benefit you. Jason Latham- I kind of agree with Sage a little bit though, Pat, because if you are a black conservative, all the mainstream, all the social media, they're anti- you're Uncle Tom, you're selling out to the to the rates it's it's harder I think for the African American community that it's trying to be conservative to try to like

Not be woke and go the other side for them to get good eyes. Those are two different things though Those are two different things and and to be honest with you. I again I'll push back. Let me tell you why push back how many different African American conservative faces, pre-sage are there that used to work at ESPN that have the moral authority to give their argument on how left Disney and ESPN is? How many African American sports guys with moral authority are there? One, how the hell do you not get more eyeballs?

You have a monopoly, but you're not likable. That is the lamest argument I hear, because you go take the other side on, take anybody that you'll invite him over, and it's like, okay, take anybody else. Like, well, here's an African American, gay, military, black, whatever. So here, here is that.

You got Rob Smith, we just had him on. Here's a pop pop pop pop pop. Great. You know, it's very hard to be an African American woman conservative because nobody wants to give limelight. Hello, Candace Owens, the most viral face on social. I think it's a lame. But with Candace came what?

Complete vitriol from the black community. It is okay, but my point is, like, I can only speak, I guess, from my own experience, and of course, being a public figure and watching it come down. It's a completely different ball game out there if you are right leaning. Now, has it changed as far as there being more conservative voices out there?

Absolutely. But I know from my experience what has happened by the difference between when I was just silent about everything and maybe in 15, 16 time frame up till then, till when I started to speak out a little bit. And then people, I would say one thing about something random, and they'd assume I'm a conservative, and therefore evil, conservative equals evil, and the social media realm, especially back then.

And the stuff that came with that, the threats that came with that, the sellout, the coon, all the things that I was called in particular by people with my skin color. So I've lived that and the difference. And again, I know that if I had gone on that podcast with Jay Cutler, you know, two, three years ago and said, sorry about my white mom, you know, I love you, but I'm that one drop rule on, or if I had condemned the anti-vaxxers, like I was saying things that don't go along with the left. I was saying the opposite things.

And I know I would have been celebrated if I had had the other opinion. I mean should see and it's not against not about me. I can only speak on this based on my experience and When I compare also to my peers and how they're completely Celebrated for having different opinions the attacks the threats people literally threatening to rape my daughters because because they're I mean And again, it's nothing to do with my kids but because I have more conservative viewpoints and I'm just saying it's a thing and That's that's and I and I accept it and I accept it Yeah, I do it is what it is and I had a choice

Because of the fact that it leans more left and I don't know many people who would argue against that Then it's safer. It's smarter business-wise to just stay quiet. If you don't agree, just shut up. For sure. 100%. But if I'm saying the other thing on social media, you are out there and you're celebrated. We're saying the same thing. The only difference is Sage, you're likable. You're likable. Okay, you're likable. But to use that as an excuse, like when you're saying, how hard it is for the left, Candace Owens is the most viral person out there. But she's not working for like a ESPN

or one of these places, right? But that's not the point though. The point is, it is a lot easier. Is Candace likable? Is Candace, when we spend that night with Candace off camera, walked away loving her at the, she's about the highest level Yeah, both of you, but you're there completely different But that but that's the point of but there but you know what it was with Candice

You know what I saw with Candice. I saw a childlike curious a Person that wants to question everything. That can be like, I have a kid like that, right? Obviously he's a kid, she's a grown woman with three kids, 35 years old, established, successful. But I liked the curious poking, what about this, why this, that's not fair, how about

this, what about this, do you think about this? And then she's laughing and then you see this personality, that creative side. With you, I sat there, I'm like, I'm sitting in between Sade and I'm sitting in between MC Light, you know? But I'm talking about from the, this one's like talking, and this one's like cherished today and at the same time we've got a smooth operator. But still, I want to listen to both. I want to listen to both.

And I respect her, again, it was so different. She she wants a fight She goes and picks fights and we need people we do to me and that's that she can have that yeah, and she's mastered that yeah I Honestly, this might sound cheesy. I don't know. I'm an army brat. You know I grew up Just really super shy number one like this whole world I've entered into all these years ago is insane My parents watched me on TV for all these years and laughed like who are you and what have you done with my child? Now it's like please stop talking. Please stop talking. I

Am proud like I lead with kindness. I I remember Every year at ESPN every holiday holiday season, I exchange cookies with the janitors and the security guards and the Jewish one in particular because I like the rugelach. Wait, rugelach? Adam, Jewish. What's the cookie? The amazing? The rugelach. But my point is not trying to sound... No, I just feel that kindness is everything and I want to make everyone around me, even if at the grocery store, feel comfortable to a fault at times, to be honest with you, to be that pleaser, to be the connector. And sometimes it's ended up being, God, like, man, what a waste of time.

That person's going to hate me anyway, right? Why do you say you're completely different from Candace then? Well, she, I think she enjoys the fight. She wants this, you know, that's not what I desire in my life at all. I like peace and listen, I'm not afraid to have a tough conversation. Let's go, especially now. I don't care. Cancel me, whatever. Let's go. But I also as a journalist, you know, and it wasn't about me. It was about who I'm talking to in that conversation and learning about them and their story. So I don't know that Candace, she's an analyst more than a journalist. You know what I'm saying? And they're very different things. I just, we're different humans, and that's fine. I'm a little softer, I think, in many ways.

And also, I don't have the knowledge that she has with all the, and I don't want to, with all the politics. Go for it. There are many other things to talk about, especially, yes, sports, but I haven't sat down one time and watched any of that programming, because I realized, holy crap, there's a whole new world out there. But I think you can do it and make good, strong points and stand up for yourself and others and do it with kindness. That is my way of living. And I think the only difference is like you, you, like, you know who the enemy is. Like you picked yours, Candace picked hers and there's multiple enemies and she's going

head on to fight them. You know what I mean? And I get your, I get the, you know, the sweet and the kind you have yours, you know who they are, look what they've done to you. By the way, to hell with them for putting them where they put you. I'm so happy that you're strong and you've gotten through it. You know who the enemy is. Your fight is a little different fight.

Candice has picked multiple fronts and she is attacking head on with all of them. I love that she's winning. You're a different soldier on the battlefield of the same fight. It's a different pace of music. Exactly. Exactly. I can listen to, you know, Shadane and listen to Tupac and then I can listen to, you know, Foreigner and then Don Henley.

I'm totally cool. Everybody's got a different style of creating music. Go ahead, Al. Well, I guess to hone in on this, where I was going with the Whitlock, Stephen A thing was from a bigger perspective. Whitlock, I think he just talks politics now, right? I don't think he does. He's on The Blaze, which is a conservative media outlet. His show was called Fearless, talks about everything. The media landscape has changed since you joined ESPN. It's kind of where I was going. I don't think sports is that pertinent in the greater nomen culture at these points,

in the zeitgeist these days. So what's your fight? What are you going to fight about? We know what Candace is fighting about. Stephen A. We're starting to see it like his political acumen sort of rear its ugly head in a good positive way. Whitlock, you know, probably should read a book or two on how to win friends and influence people. So what's your fight? You're in this mix now. Yeah. I mean, it's not, see, that's the thing. It's not about going to pick a fight. No, I don't know. What's you want you're willing to die on well lately

It has this began over a year ago when I was still at ESPN and it's that it's the transgender Sports issue and I feel strongly about it. No one will convince me Otherwise, it's not important and I don't care if they say well point zero three three percent like stop So what's the magic number? So it's it's okay up until this number because it isn't just the that Woman that was kicked off the podium. It's the woman the domino effect of it Yeah, right And if that person wasn't even allowed to you know

Try to qualify for the race because a guy was there like it goes so much deeper So to your point like that's the one thing that recently I have chosen even though at ESPN They I was kind of warned let's stay away from this topic. I'm like, wait, what? We're standing for women. What the hell are we doing? Why are we all of a sudden going silent when we've pushed on Title IX for all these years

and put tens of millions of dollars into programming for women's college hoops? And look what it's done, by the way. Ratings incredible through the roof. I was asked as I left ESPN, and actually leading up to it, about politics and if I would run in the state of Connecticut where I've lived full-time basically since 2007. I didn't think very long about it because I have no desire to go into that world. I

think it's filthy and it's gross and I want to be able to advocate for whatever issue I feel is important for others. With the sports thing my daughters are beyond their competitive athletic days right so I got no horse in this race I just think it's right and wrong there's too many people who are afraid to talk about the facts with that one. If other issues come up, I will go there. I sometimes don't know what they are, obviously, until I'm there. I was on Capitol Hill a few weeks ago at a Senate hearing about this issue and protecting women and girls. So how cool to be able to have a voice with that and to be able to talk about,

I got at Riley Gaines on my new show recently, a 23 year old kid with such courage, like she's displaying courage that grown ass men and women refuse to. So I don't know as far as what's next, but I do know this, if there's an issue that I feel strongly about, I no longer have a fear to go there. And in the meantime, my passion is finding out what makes people tick, finding out their why. Like, you're brilliant. We all know it. It's overwhelming sometimes. I look at what you do.

I was talking about with Joe earlier, like, look at what you do and how you do it. And I mean, how along with a family and all your 65 children that you guys keep having beautiful babies. I'd have more babies. 65? you've got, you guys keep having beautiful babies. I'd have more babies. 65? I've had a lot, that's maybe an exaggeration. I would do it if I could. But in general, it's so beautiful what you've done

and the courage with which you've done it, right? And so I wanna know why, and you know what? I don't even care about your resume when I have you on the Sage Deal Show, thank you very much. It's because, where did that come from? And what happens when you hit a wall? Because it all looks good. Well, on camera and when you're doing your thing and speaking and bringing people in and making a lot of money, but in those down moments and when you are

fearful or when you are hurt, like what brings you back? Because I know that every time I've shown my vulnerability, whether it's about what happened at ESPN, whether it's about my divorce, whether it's about all happened at ESPN, whether it's about my divorce, whether it's about all these things that are super painful to talk about, I have realized number one, it's therapeutic. Number two, others realize, Patrick, but David's going through that. And he's still waking up every day and clocking in and supporting others. I can do it too. So you're we're helping others when we go there and share our story and That's what I'm excited about to be able to do it on my terms Meaning no questions off limits and in that going back to like how I choose to lead I

If I can make someone feel comfortable enough to go there with me with some personal stuff Because I'm willing to as well and it's okay if we get choked up, you know what I mean? I just had Gina Carano on my I only have three episodes and that debuted yesterday and what she Hello, suing Disney, just like I did. It's such a badass and she's so strong and how she's done it. But like, she got super emotional about her best friend who died. And like she and that's one of the reasons why she's pushing and not giving up on this fight against Disney, right? So when you learn it's not just about being wronged at ESPN like I was or like she was at Disney Like what is it that makes you say? I'm not stopping the fight this time. That's where the magic is And so that's my passion is to try to get to know people beyond all of this This is great, but I don't care about that as much as I care about about you. You know, can I make a prediction for you? Now that you've entered this world, like the tipping point for you clearly was the women's transgender. I assume Leah Thomas Riley gains everything in that. Shout out to Dylan Mulvaney. She's amazing, obviously, credible, incredible athlete. Once you start going down this transgender

thing, it's gonna it's gonna say something else. I thought he was gonna say passenger 57 line, you know, you know what I'm talking about? You know what I'm thinking about? Do you know what I'm talking about? You ever played roulette? Yeah. Why? Because I thought he was gonna go and say once you go, once you go. Okay. I'm just saying cuz this is such a if you know you know Last week was Easter slash Maybe just as important transgender visibility day. We all know that I mean, what's what's more important these days? But once you go here, you're gonna start going down women's rights stuff

You're gonna start poking the bear a little bit. You're going to end up in the abortion issues. You're going to end up in all these issues. Maybe. Maybe. Well, if you want to make a name for yourself, I think you will. But it's not about making a name. See, that's the thing. I'm not here to get clicks.

I'm not. And I know that's part of business. It's about telling the right story. It's about doing it the right way and picking it for me, picking and choosing what you threw as a friend. I love it. I love the fact that it's like, it's not about me. I love the question you're asking and what she's saying that what it's not about and by the way

I think it all comes it will all come out if you do it the right way But but but a part of I fully agree with what he's saying is because you know So I started creating content and it was about business entrepreneurship, and I'm like shit. I'm interested in the mob And I'm like why am I sitting in front of these mobsters and interviewing them and I get along with Italians and my language that this is like we have great conversations I was like man I know a little bit too much about bodybuilding and why am I interviewing these bodybuilders and they're getting views and there's so many people That are also you know, why am I interested in politics? Why am I interested in, what is going on?

And that journey, he's right, that journey you're gonna go through, we're gonna enjoy watching you go through it. It's gonna be exciting. I'm just saying, I'm not saying they're going, I wanna do this, because it's gonna give me click. Like people see through you. And it's fine, and it's fine. I'm just being real as hell.

But it's gonna be naturally, organically. Sage, do your shah-day natural thing. That's my nickname for Sage. God, dude. Sage is a shah-day style deal. It's gonna cherish the days. It's beautiful. I love it.

But what I'm saying is... It's the brand. That should be the opening song to the podcast. The talking head reading off of the script. To the CBC media. To LA, to Florida. Can I sing? These last two podcasts have been amazing. By the way, if you're watching this, folks, if you're watching this, you heard what I

said with her and Jason Whitlock and Stephen A and Candice and all these conversations we had. Do you agree with me? Do you disagree with me? Do you agree with her? You can ask her the question on my neck. Can you pull up a QR code? What are our QR codes?

Ask her. And by the way, if you have any guest recommendations for to have on her podcast Let her know on my neck send a list of five ten names. She's new to this space Maybe there are certain people she needs to be looking at send her a message on my neck then let this relationship The journey that she's gonna be going through Participate with her on that but you brought up Riley Gaines. So let's talk about Riley Gaines, right? Can I just say well you just said a word a word though. You just said natural and organic. And that's the thing. Cause I think people, viewers, listeners are smart and they see through you when you're doing it just to get attention. Like for me, and that's, and I've

had fights with social media people about my page because they're like, you just go, go, go post. And I'm like, and I'll do it for you. I'm like, no, I need to do it because it's me and I don't want anyone to think that I'm selling out right so you're so right I just have to do it my way, which is like natural not to Can I can I give an atom type of metaphor right now with your Gonna hit the nail in the head gonna give an atom type metaphor, okay? To make this point, but let me kind of say it to you. Here's what I think. Halfway through, remember to say what's my point. You know, it's kind of like, it's Adam and

Vinny, it's kind of like organic, we're waiting organically for Adam to be interested in women above 30, not 20s. Okay. But it's not organically. No chance, he said. See what I'm saying? It's not organically happening. Wait, how old are you? Four years. Holding off the party, Sage, what's going on? I could be your mother. Oh my god. No, you could. I could probably be your mother.

By the way, if you could, someone's going to jail. Not up in here. FYI, most people probably are not going to get your age right, but believe it or not, this guy, you know what number Reggie Jackson was? No, he's not. Yeah. guy, you know what number Reggie Jackson was He's not yeah, no you're not yeah Reggie Jackson What take this what's Reggie Jackson's number can you tap in Reggie Jackson's number? Okay, or good makeup doesn't So, but wait nobody can be over 30 I want to have a bunch of kids sage

You look great. So but wait, nobody can be over 30. I want to have a bunch of kids sage They didn't ask the question. No one can be over 30. No, they could but Preferably not it's a metaphor. They certainly are not starting with four sage. No disrespect I'll be over here if you need me listen, I'll go young to go young Young you go on sage. So so let me have another Adams only gonna date girls that at the wedding when you get married if they go do you take this man to be a lovely With a husband she's gonna go fuck. Yeah That's gonna be that she's gonna say yes My rule at this point is like sorry. No high school. Yeah, I'm not talking

So let's try I mean, this is the world we live in. So it is what it is. Let's go into one story that I think we guys... We got 38 minutes. I'd like to hit up some stories here together. There is some incredible things going on with Caitlin Clark, right? So the other day I saw stats. Rob, can you pull this up?

The NCAA Championships for women's got more viewership than the NCAA championship for men Yeah, what the hell is going on? She's your phenom and she's a phenom and and and yeah right there women's basketball Championship for 18.9 million viewers Versus 14.8 million for men's fueled by Katelyn Clark's emergence as a superstar. Can you play that clip by Paul Pierce, please, Rob, if you could? Paul Pierce had some choice words about... Really? Oh yeah, you can see this. It's so funny.

But by the way, he came back and he actually gave her credit, which is respected. So go ahead, play this clip, Rob. It's not... It's beyond that, Key. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to just keep it 100%. We saw a white girl in Iowa do it to a bunch of black girls.

Well, of course. That made it like, oh, that gave my respect. That gave my respect. I hear you. Like, that's like, oh, she didn't do this to some other little white girls that was over here in Colorado, wherever. She did it to some girls from LSU, who we thought were some

dogs. Defending champs. Defending champs and put them on her knee and spanked them. Spanked them. Spanked them. Spanked them. Spanked them. Spanked them.

So what do you think is going on with Kaitlyn? Is she already, because you know her and Diana Thirasi had an issue. Do already, because you know her and Diana, Therasi had an issue. Do you have that clip about her and Diana? She's talking trash because she's like, you know what? Tiger Woods went through the same thing where the pros were like, relax little guy. Wait, you haven't come and played with the Bigs dogs. She is nasty.

Like, it might not translate. Like, yeah, it translates, bro. She's the real deal. She's shooting from half court yeah yeah just buckets this is not a center that's gonna be like into a bigger realm right yeah this is somebody shooting from the outside like this who's gonna keep shooting from the outside like this yeah and this is just like how much of this how much is the Diana thing like just kind of hating on her because she is the hottest thing. She's getting paid more than anybody She's getting obviously more. I'm not anymore. She's going to the WNBA

Yeah, but I mean she but she got offers from from men She made over three million bucks this year three million as a college athlete. What makes her special stage you've been in this We have never seen anyone shoot like this and look at what what she's done, just numbers-wise, men's and women's basketball. You know, remember how in awe we were of Stephen Curry when he first came out shooting from the logo and all that? That's what she's doing, and she's doing it in college. And she's fundamentally so sound. And to take that team to where she took them the last two years in a row and couldn't quite get over the top because it is about your full team very very good team but not quite the South Carolina team and certainly last year's LSU team.

She's doing it. She's doing it. The small town girl from Iowa, like, by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. So I don't understand where the hate comes from. Usually this is what my mom always told me, you know, through the years and we'll, Oh my gosh, someone said this should be like, you know what? That isn't even about you. They don't hate you. They got their own issues, big time, their own insecurities, big time, which is shocking considering what these people coming at her have already accomplished. Like they are some of the goats and it's just so weird.

And then, so they said their stuff and then afterwards you know when the national championship ends, it's like Great job all my love, you know such respect for what you've done for the game Like that comes after they already ripped her on some things like why aren't you celebrating this because guess what this girl? single-handedly Changed and elevated the sport and guess who's gonna win for that all of them Yep, every single one of these women even the old veterans who are still playing like they're gonna benefit because there's more eyeballs on the WNBA Maybe those salaries will get a little bit higher. So why are you hating on somebody who's helping an entire sport?

Like it's beautiful. I had so many people reaching out to me and then I read on Twitter like Thousands and thousands look at the numbers millions of people She single-handedly brought to the game brought to the tv screens because when it crosses certain lines You're talking about on good morning america, and they don't know anything about sport. I mean robin robert certainly does there but like at the end of the day, it's not what they focus on so They she brought so many people in People who said I've never watched a women's basketball game but I did for this and the parents who want to

make sure their young daughters and sons but daughters are watching pure greatness. So stop with the hate because guess what you're gonna win you're gonna be thanking Kate Clark for this. By the way Kevin Garnett gave credit to Michael Jordan saying if it wasn't for Michael doing all these shoe deals, we wouldn't be as wealthy as we are today. You guys better thank him. So she could make a lot of people wealthy. And by the way, Ice Cube offered her $5 million. Dave Portnoy to play in the three, what do you call it?

What is it called? Three on three? And is this the one, Rob, where he says that? Can you play this? It's to play against men, right? That's where I'm going with this, by the way. Come about. Yeah, we made our offer a couple of weeks ago, and you know, we was hoping to hear something back,

and we haven't heard nothing back yet. She's a little busy. But we heard something back. We heard, you know, it's tournament time, but it leaked. And so we don't want to deny it. The best thing to do is just Let people know what was going on We've looked at our guards over the years and the size of our guards and say, you know That's a position that if does he give the number rap or no a female They can play five million dollars. They port no he came back and said I'll top

His ice cubes five million with ten million dollars so she's getting that kind of money being offered to her so now the question that becomes does she automatically increase the money for everybody else or is she that does she have that much of a distance of the second best women's basketball player that that's not gonna happen to everybody what do you think I think eventually okay through time yeah I, how about the Indiana Fever with the first overall pick? I mean, you talk about changing your franchise completely. By the way, she's going to a very comfortable place probably for her. Iowa to Indiana, Midwest, Midwest love where I listen,

I went to Indiana University is where I went to school. Like there's nothing bigger than basketball in the Hoosier State. So did Mark also went to the university? A lot of good people went to the school. Good for you. What a great people. Yes. Yes. No, but like, she's successful. Mark Cuban is a face of the EI, but go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Goodness. Last time I saw him, we were actually at assembly hall. Bob Knight's long awaited return after being fired in 2020, about a month before the pandemic began, we sat next to each other in our candy stripe shirts and pants and watched with tears in our eyes as Bob Knight came back.

Yeah. So yeah, a lot of us basketball loving people. So I think it's going to, yeah, it's going to take a minute, but no matter what, it'll be interesting to see after the first month of the WNBA, which their season, it's a summer league basically. It's coming up right around the corner. It'll be fascinating to see how the numbers look the ratings if there is a bump I'm pretty sure that ESPN and those networks have WNBA are gonna be putting the

Indiana Fever on much more than they ever have I'm gonna burst your bubble right now go nobody gives shit and I'll tell you why she should take this offer from ice cube from cube from Dave Portoy, and not even think twice. You know the highest paid player in the WNBA? 250 grand. The NBA subsidizes the WNBA. We want to have a whole conversation about equal pay and the gender wage gap that's no more prevalent than what's going on in the WNBA.

And respect. Like, I love basketball. shout out to her superstar in college basketball. Arguably she's taking a downgrade to go to the WNBA. Nobody watches the WNBA, nobody cares, I'm sorry. If more people did, there'd be more butts in seats, they'd get paid more, it's irrelevant. You don't think she might make a change? That's all I'm saying it you don't think she might make a change change it's not happening it's gonna go there be the NBA I'm not saying that I'm saying I know and I'm saying we're not compared to the NBA you can't that's apples and oranges she's going though in my opinion to improve the base of the WNBA yeah she will make that better but

and and make it better for the other athletes. We've seen it with Brittany Greiner, we've seen it with Diana Taurasi, these are all great plays. No, not like this though. Now hold on, hold on. Okay, Vinny, let me ask you a question. How many WNBA games are you going to watch this year? Hold on, with her in it, I'll watch the first game to see what she does in her first game. And then how many more games after that?

Hold on, let me ask you a question. Is she going to sell out the question. Hold on shut your dirty mouth. Is she gonna sell out any WNBA games? Is she gonna hold on here maybe the first one maybe the first one you want to make a bet hold on how many more eyeballs is she gonna bring? If you have you ever watched a WNBA and WNBA game from start to finish? Yes or no? No I don't know. There you go. Hold on hold on ready for this I haven't watched a regular basketball game from beginning to end that's a lie hold on when I was a kid when I was a kid oh because you know me so well you know you've you watch me at home watching sports I'll be you an NBA game from start to finish and when I was young Michael Jordan yeah I can give two

shits about basketball two shits so to go to my point do to go to watch the NBA to go to the point. Most people watch the NBA. To go to the point. Most people watch the NBA finals. To go to our point. To go to our point. Hey, because I'm going to nail this, hit this hammer on that whatever the hell you say. I'm saying she's going to show up. She's going to show up. If she's bringing 18 million eyeballs to and beating NCAA, watch what she's going to do. Give her a chance. Here's a question though. He actually makes a very good point on one area and then you make a good point that I'm gonna watch the first game I honestly we can probably watch the whole thing at 59 now. I want to see how she does that Yeah, how she comes out scores 50 right? Yeah, but but here's the point So can you Google who is the highest paid WM play NBA player of all time is is it?

250 or are the salary is anybody making a million or not yet young makes no WNBA money no no no but that's why they go to Europe that's why Brittany Griner went to Russia that that's and got trouble right but they have to go to continue there you go so make that The Wiener to wanna bonner do wanna bonner 899 Right, okay, so here's a question for you. Here's a question for you and sage and Tom I want you to think about this your math guy. So She just got offered five million. Take it. Okay, Portnum gives ten million. Here's the question Say we own a WNBA team. You know what we're doing right now. We're sitting Okay. Porthner gives 10 million. Here's the question. Say we own a

WNBA team. You know what we're doing right now? We're sitting there. We're like, ah, man, Tom, are we sage guys? We're at the board. What are we going to offer this girl? It's going to be a lot. And then we're going to be like, our team's not worth a lot of money. We can't afford to pay five million bucks or can we? Do we go raise the capital and give her a five-year? 25 million dollar contract five million a year. What do you Tom? You're a GM guy. You're your baseball guy What do we do with something like this? How do we make that decision here? You gotta make that decision on TV viewership? Oh, I just got a big pop in this. We didn't hear it. By the way was your mic keep going

I look at I look at it this way he who raises TV viewership here she She but go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no the the player that raises TV No, no people that get confused, but good That's gonna change everything. I mean Tiger Woods changed golf. I mean increase the time to qualify this No, no, I'm not qualifying it. It says if we believe that She's gonna raise the TV viewership then we absolutely pay her so we're making she's going to raise the TV viewership, then we absolutely pay her. So we're making...

She's going to. Yeah, that's right. So if we're the Indiana Board, I'd look at it and say, you know what? Do we make a bet here? Sports is about making a bet. How many players have come out and played two, three games and then they get really hurt and it doesn't happen? It happens all over the place.

You're making a bet right now. It says do I think that the enthusiasm, the Midwest enthusiasm is going to come to Indiana because we are sitting here in Midwest and you've got this Midwest heroine who's coming over here? I would look at it and seriously look at making a bet. But in making the bet you've got all the other owners are gonna Say you're also setting a precedent That's what I was gonna say the precedent and the precedent better line up with the math of the current TV contract Well, the beauty of it is that they have everything

Yeah, CBAs you covered this right the percent of the CBAs have percent of revenue coming to the players, right? That's always the argument 42% 42 and a half percent, 43%. It's like baseball. And baseball players pray for those big local market, like YesNetworks and what the Dodgers finally did after years, because that goes into the CBA and player contracts are now a percent of that. Salary cap moves up as a percent of that.

So if we believe it can happen, we can do it. Or the other owner is going to call us PBD and say, if you do something crazy with her, you could screw the entire league. There's going to be that pressure as well. I really think that. But at the end of the day, you see what she does. I believe the ratings will spike. It will never be to the NBA level. Obviously. So I'm just clarifying, making sure that's not the expectation. But I do think it'll, it'll change some things. And most importantly, she's going to make whatever she can in the WNBA. But no matter what she's

already set with the endorsement. She's got millions coming in. You think she'll make five of your first year WNBA or no? No. What? Endorsement wise? No, no, like WNBA money. No, no,? Endorsement wise? No, no. Like WNBA money. No. No, no, no. The coaches don't even make that and the coaches right now are certainly much higher paid.

What do you think she's going to get paid? $250,000? What's the max right now? What's the WNBA's max? Is that what the number is? $250,000. She might not even make that. Is there a max in WNBA?

I don't even know if there's a... Is there a max? Yes, yes. Are you sure? Go to it. It says WNBA salary cap. It's only about a million and a half isn't it? Salary cap for the team.

Well go for it. And if you look at the roster, I mean some of these girls are making nothing. Got it. The first round pick, don't ask me why I know this. The team cap of course, there's always those caps. Yes, there's a team cap. Tom I'm glad you brought up the CBA the collective bargaining agreement It's slotted in so if you're the first pick in the NFL like the first pick is gonna be the quarterback from USC

I forget his name. Yeah He's slotted in it's not you can't negotiate it's slotted in our second pick gets this third pick gets this You know how much the first pick for the WNBA makes slotted in? Second pick gets this third pick gets this you know how much the first pick for the WNBA makes slotted in 75 G's that's what Caitlin Clark is going to make this year now She'll make more from doing an endorsement at the local, Indiana Goodyear tire plant then she's gonna make in the NBA this year I'm sure he has right now that's a rate and a couple of others. She's making millions right now right there The many plays the top 10 each makes 70 grand. She's going to make 76 grand.

By the way, you know what though? Let me tell you, it's unfair to whatever team she goes to is the luckiest team out there. It's Indiana. Because watch this. You know what, Rob, can you Google what was the average MLS teams valuation 20 years ago? Average MLS team valuation 20 years ago. Average MLS team valuation 20 years ago. Whatever, let's see if we can see. Major LeMans, not today, but history of MLS team valuations.

Anyways, you could buy an MLS team, you know, Tom, we know one of our investors that invest into the company, he bought the Houston Dynamo, I think, for 25 million bucks, if I'm not mistaken. And the Dash, and the stadium. Oh, and the Dash, and the stadium for 25 million bucks, and this was 10 yearso, I think for 25 million bucks. And the Dash and the stadium. And the Dash and the stadium for 25 million bucks. And this was 10 years ago, I believe.

10 years ago. What is Inter Miami? We went to a game the other day. What's Inter Miami worth today? Billion and a half. Because of who? Because of Messi. Exactly.

And Beckham. Beckham brought a lot of these guys. But I'll say this, if she goes and all of a sudden, privately I'm calling you, you're not picking up, and then you pick up the phone, I hear background, loud music, I'm like, Vinny, are you watching? Caitlin Clark? No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not. Vinny, FaceTime, FaceTime, and then all of a sudden it turns to notebook, but if all of a sudden she brings those kinds of eyeballs and she has like a initially Yeah, changer

Yes And especially because of the trash talking that was coming her way from some of those legends in and out of the game right now You know everybody's gonna be paying attention That's what's gonna make it Flannels are coming to Betty's house. He had a poster of Caitlin Clark in his living room. Yeah. I'm not playing her first game prediction because I think it's coming up. 14 points. Three assists, six assists, two rebounds. What she did in college was incredible. That does not translate to the WNBA. You sure it's just like the best player in college Zack Edie, let's say his first game in the NBA will have four points and three rebounds. It just doesn't work that way

I could be wrong. Kaylin Clark can just show up Guys crazy breaking news you were right was I right? Oh Jay Simpson dead. No way. I just said it to Pat Yeah, five minutes ago Jay double murder someone killed him and a girlfriend. Oh I just said it to Pat. Yes Wow five minutes ago Double murder someone killed him and a girlfriend Oh, yeah Oh J Simpson's Twitter account right there Just few minutes ago 12 ago, their family tweeted this.

On April 10th, our father, OJ Simpson, succumbed to his battle with cancer, was surrounded by his children and grandchildren. During this time of transition, his family asked that he please respect their wishes of privacy and grace. Oh my gosh. What a, what a. I didn't know he had cancer. No, he talked about it, but the way he made it seem the video that came out recently,

because if you go back a couple weeks ago, he did a video, maybe they took the video down. He's like, all this stuff you're hearing, rumors about me and cancer, they're a lie. I'm okay. There's nothing going on with me. This is the one. Rob, play this. Go back a little bit.

Yeah. Damn. Well, hospice? Hospice you're talking about hospice no I'm not in any hospital I don't know who put that out there but whoever put that out there I guess is like the Donald Singh can't trust the media uh in any event I'm hosting a ton of friends for for the Super Bowl here in Las Vegas all as well you know so one thing you gotta give him credit for. Take care have a good Super Bowl weekend. He's got the Bill Clinton syndrome. Which one? I did not have any relations with that. Or if it doesn't fit him must have quit. What do you mean? Like the craziest thing of the entire thing which guys everybody knows everybody knows what happened this guy

The audacity to write a book after the murders and the book was called I didn't do it But if I did this is how I would have done it. Do you know what he's been doing for the last? Years ease he's been out there lurking Searching for looking for victims for the killers. For the killers of Nicole Brown Smith and Ron Goldman. How do you process this? I'm just shooting my shot right now. Well, meaning he is a double murderer.

He was acquitted because if the glove don't fit, he must have been. Well, because there's a Mark Furman was a racist that was on the, like he's the luckiest murderer. Is there anything more watered down word these days? Mark Furman was a racist. He was big time. And he did plant. He didn't need to the facts were going to be there. But the fact that this guy was on that case, I love ruin what I love that you're focused on Mark Furman. That's great. No, Adam, I'm I'm agree he had the most amazing legal team ever put together as a super team.

Okay. Okay. legal team ever put together as a super team okay okay Johnny Cochran Robert Kardashian he didn't have Alan Dershowitz as well did he have Robert Shapiro yeah this guy spent a millions of dollars on lawyers yeah he didn't spend it in your pay yeah okay whatever yeah he got off I think everybody knows he did kill those I didn't on I did not I didn't say he didn't but look at the circumstances besides the team. You have a known racist Detective taking the glove which already has blood on it and moving it You just messed up a crime scene and you made him now the luckiest murderer on the planet And then he's putting on the gloves and it's like bro just because you got on a tight glove

Doesn't mean you can't kill anybody. I could kill Tom right now with some type of the sea. I know I love In a climate where the country do the country was we were in a bad If they said even if they know he was guilty Indicit if they were like no, he's he's he's guilty put him in jail You know what the country would have gone into He was the lucky. I don't know maybe BLM, right? Maybe he murdered two people and there were two trials. He was one in one he lost Okay, but my

On the same evidence presented to a different jury by in the so my point is he Murdered two people at the luck. We'll time will J rest in peace. I don't know about that If you believe in heaven and I will J rest in peace I don't think the word peace should ever be in the same sentence with OJ Simpson Even if he's no longer walking this earth I the first my first thoughts went to the Brown family and then Ronald Goldman, the Goldman and the Brown families and like, what, what, what must they be thinking right now? I don't even think there's peace with them, right?

Even this, the guy that killed them allegedly, right? Guy that killed them is now gone. Do they have peace? No, they never have. So I don't think there's any anyway, and if you're his family if you're OJ's family I'm glad everybody was there I guess but like no matter what and especially think about the way he handled his business over the last Several years and remember that the robbery And the ring cell, yeah, he was there so I don't know that the word he was guilty of the double murder in 95

I mean Yeah, okay, but like it's not you know, does our opinion matter? Unfortunately more important opinions don't even matter And I and I think it comes out. That was a great question Pat I think it's he will rest in peace if because we didn't see it We had no idea if he did sage if he genuinely Pray to God because we all we're not stupid and he asked for forgiveness and was genuine in his heart for doing it He'll be okay If not, I mean if you believe in the Bible and you're a Christian and you and you're just walking on a murder

Forgiveness and if he asked and if in his heart said listen to God because that's the main conversation Who cares about the cameras who cares about anybody if he had a moment with God and as Jesus Christ, please I messed up I'm a killer and I'm a sinner. Forgive me, he's gonna be okay. If not, that's a hard contract. Well, what do you mean in your heart, Adam? Yeah, that's how it works. If you ask for God's forgiveness. What are your thoughts on OJ Peabody? Never been a fan on what he's done and how he handles himself in media. To came across fake always came across as the

bite the deceptive and all of that but look man there's anytime anybody that dies and I talked to my guys over the years or whoever it is friends family you only have one mom you only have one dad to his kids that's their father so to those kids you know they're you know, they're, you know, imagine being his child. You didn't do anything to be his child. No matter where you go, hey, Mary Simpson, is your dad OJ?

How many times did they have to answer that question? Can you imagine the answer to that? Your dad's OJ? Be careful, he may do what his dad, can you imagine like all that stuff? So to me, I mean, I don't know. There's a part of it that we can, not a fan, not supportive, will he rest in peace for what he did and what he experienced and how we... All the interviews I've watched with the ways, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly,

and even on the Sasha Baron Cohen, hey, you know, me and you, we have something in common. We're both lady killers, you know. and you we have something in common. We're both the lady killers You know you ever seen that lady killer. You know who this is this is OJ To the point where a Sasha but anyways, there's two sides one side Hey, you believe in God if he did what he did, only God can judge me, he's about to find out what's going to happen, none of us are going to know. On the other side, I feel bad for the kids, I feel bad for those who are directly loving him.

That part is a... I hate that such great memories as an athlete just gone, he did this to himself. Yeah, he was in and that smile. That was back in football's heyday too, right? Like he was great. So sad to watch. I mean, I just, little caveat, the kids that you're talking about, you feel bad for the kids? Well, their mother was Nicole Brown Simpson that was murdered by their dad, allegedly OJ. So talk about grappling with the sadness and reality and disgustingness of life.

It wasn't like their kids were like, yeah, we love you dad. He's close to his kids. Yeah, it's cool. So yeah, I'm here. Yeah, all I'm saying to you is I listen, how many more complicated situations we all remember where he was with the Bronco, right? We all remember that, you know, like almost like if you buy a Bronco I bet some people sit there and say would you like to buy a Bronco like he probably heard white one I'll

get a red one yeah definitely not a black Bronco but white Broncos no no one doesn't imagine like that jokes that people could say I don't know I think there's just you know there's a lot of stories with this, but. 76? 76 years old. Yep, 76 years old that this happens. Anyways. He had two kids with Nicole and three kids separately,

so there's probably a different relationship between those three at the time. Let's go to a couple different issues here, so since we're together. So, Sage Steele says, Uh-oh. ESPN told her not to deviate from Biden's interview script. Now we've seen what you've said about it.

Tell us a little bit more about it. I know you did the, Rob, if you can play one of the clips with her and the great Joe Biden, if you can put that, the moment together. Did he smell old? It was not in person. It was in Zoom. Oh, okay, it was Zoom, my bad. Do you have that, Rob, or you don't have it? If you don't, I can find it. Give me one.

So how was that? You know, did you approach ESPN? Did ESPN approach you? Did ESPN say we want you to interview him? What was that like? ESPN came to me and said, what are you doing next Tuesday? You know, yeah, listen, I don't know the goings on behind the scenes about even how the interview came to be. You know, if you think about during Barack Obama's presidency, we had him on every march, remember he filled out the brackets on ESPN for eight years. And then nothing when Trump, when Trump was in office, it was complete avoidance and then with his Biden interview. So this is only two months after he took office. And yeah, it was there were a lot of cooks in that kitchen coming up with the scripts and the exact questions and the exact wording and I was to stick to that script.

Was there anything in it Sage that you in your heart like you wanted to be like, wait a minute, did anything or was it just so scripted that you'd even have a chance to think of something different to like press them on it because obviously I mean you couldn't but was there anything Yeah, I couldn't wish you could have said yes Well, what would be one of the things that you wish honest guy? I said I'm so question because I saw it stage. What was the burning one that you could have been like hey guys I don't give a damn if it cost me my job boom Yeah, it was first question one of the first questions out of the gate Which was about the potential at that time potential cancellation of the Major League Baseball

All-Star Game in Atlanta. Oh, wow. Based on quote unquote illegal racist voting laws in the state of Georgia. Wow. And he said that he would be fine with and he would support removing the All-Star Game from Georgia, from Atlanta, because of the racist voting laws when I think his answer was about you can't even bring Water to people standing in line. I'm like what is you even what does he even talk that that was was that the stage? Was that the whole you know?

Black people they can't they can't get IDs. So how are they supposed to vote this most of know? Yeah, that's exactly what it was. And again you come you're coming off of George Floyd 2020 So this is March of 2021 and so that Black Lives Matter thing hadn't been fully exposed at that point. I give Candace Owens credit for that because I was listening to her back in that during that time. And she's like, Wait a minute, I've gotten online, I've tried to follow, like the trail you can follow, like money that the business is making where it goes, you couldn't find anything. So that's when I immediately was like, what is this BLM thing? What does it stand for? Anyway, so that was in everybody's heads when

this came up. And yeah, I mean, hello, have you seen me? I wanted to say, so you're telling me that because of the color of my skin, I'm not smart enough to be able to remember to bring my driver's license to when I go and stand in line to vote or to get one in the first place. Like stop what you're saying is actually racist. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. He's the most, if you go to the history, the track record, he has said more racist shit than any president and they just go, ah, he's old. And that guy, go look at his past of put y'all back in chains. And if don't vote for Trump, then you ain't black. And you ain't black.

And the amount of shit that he has said about black people, nobody cares. But it's also in the state of Georgia, and that's what many Democrats, of course, in the left in the state of Georgia were saying, that this is so racist. And I just, I'm like, are we, is it this simple now where you as the commander in chief are able to say that that's racist and there's people not bringing water to, only black, you're going to give water to white people not black people like shut up and stop so that was what I would have loved to have said is please can you tell me so does that mean like am I which ones of us are smart enough is because I'm

lighter skinned but like what are we saying that's what I wish I could have said and done and you know what would happen Sage that screen would have been all they would have cut the transmission just like that. Did you say that you had Trump come on ESPN or they didn't invite him? What happened with that? Four years of Trump in office. Never once. Weird. Never once. After eight years every year with Obama. And by the way, even if you think about, if you're a courtside, if he was courtside at an NBA game or an NCAA game, because he's a huge basketball fan That camera was always over there ESPN ABC that was zooming in on the president Yeah, you know, there's certainly some hesitation when when Trump comes out onto the football field Or I do think it's funny with UFC because UFC airs what?

honey, it's been platforms and you've got Dana White and Trump sitting side by side and he has been you had gotta have to put the camera on him there. Did you do anything with Obama ever or no? Did I? No, never once, never met him. Did you ever meet him or you've never met him? No, I would have loved to. Listen, I posted the picture of us basically at the UFC fight when Dana and I had met Trump once before at his live golf event in Bedminster in 2022 in New Jersey at his course and he was wonderful, had a great talk then. This was the second time I met him at the UFC thing. I just thought it was like, I don't care who you are. If you're the sitting president or former president, it's an honor to meet you. I

disagree vehemently with a lot of what Barack Obama said and did, but it would be an honor to meet him and I would have posted that picture too. Did Trump not show up because ESPN didn't want him on? No, I'm saying he did when we were there. No, you said this is pulling out the brackets. Tell him the UFC story. Yeah, I got you. Tell him the UFC story. Oh, no, the brackets were never, that bracket opportunity was never offered to Donald Trump.

That's my point. That they didn't offer it to him. Oh, hell no. And then you covered the, there's been multiple, like Golden State Warriors, I think, I think the Lakers refused to go see Trump at the White House. Oh, yes. And women seems as well. I mean, they have a right to do it.

I just think it's so funny when we pick and choose, right? And Bill Clinton was the best president ever, but we forget what was happening in the Oval Office and we kind of forgive him for those moral failures. You know what I mean? So it's just the hypocrisy of picking and choosing. To me, pretty much all politicians are filthy, right? Yep, like a narcissist and all the above and I'm not saying terrible human beings But there's some skeletons with every politician and for me stop vote with your emotions

Put it to the side because you know, I'm gonna have an issue with everybody. What are your policies? Are we gonna be safer as a country is the economy gonna be better? I look at the issues and I don't really care about some of the other crap because you can't. You'll never find the perfect person. So, and this is a personal, you don't have to answer, but I'm very curious. I mean from hearing what you just said with policy and you know person that whatever, 2024 election I think this is one of, I mean every four years they're like this is the most important. Are you leaning somewhere? Do you feel, because obviously Trump is gonna be the the the Republican candidate? Thank God

Okay, I think I Hopefully, let's just I don't trust I don't trust that certain people are gonna allow him to get to November I I 100% agree. I pray to God that it is because he's really don't believe that No, I believe that it should happen But I think that the Democrats have proven right now I believe that it should happen, but I think that the Democrats have proven right now this tedious and it's absolute insanity of what they're trying to do to avoid that from happening to make sure it doesn't happen. I hope it does.

And I, to be honest with you, I hate to even put it out there. I worry about a safety. I mean, I think there's so many crazy people there going to such great lengths to prevent this man with 91 charges and all the stuff in Georgia. Like it's insanity. So I hope so. Okay. So if it does, let's just say, if it's Trump, Biden, if it comes Trump, Biden Sage, you're

not working at ESPN. You're not working for freaking that Disney umbrella. We're who you going with? Like if you had like if it's Joe Biden and Donald Trump, because we had Stephen A here, he was like Biden, Biden, Biden. He did. Yeah, because he has to say it. This was a two weeks ago. That was the most recent visit. Recent visit. He was like Biden Biden Biden He did he had yeah because when was he has to say it. This was a two weeks ago

That was the most recent visit recent visit. He didn't say it once age He said Biden Biden Biden My head was gonna blow up because name one thing that he's done if it comes down to Trump and Biden I have well, okay two things number one none your business. Okay And I say that jokingly cuz I'm gonna kind of and I love it Yeah for it when I asked my parents that in 1988 when I was like, oh, I just want to talk about it. I did civics class in high school and they're like, none of your business.

Yeah. Because they wanted me to go on my own and find out why I believe a certain thing. My parents did a hell of a job. I've not done quite as well. On that note, hell no, Joe Biden. I'll say that because you know why? I care about this country and where we are right now, just with national security, whether it's across the pond or at the border, it is brutal. And I

follow all the inflation numbers. I follow the economy. I follow the divisiveness that this administration puts out every single day. So there's no way on God's green earth that I would vote for Joe Biden Period so at the end of the day, it's always The and I hate to even use this word, but you know, it's a saying lesser of the evils, right? And and so for me that that's what it is. And I think that I'm able to put the other stuff with Trump aside Yeah, personally that bothers people Yeah, because I don't I can't change that and there's a whole bunch of stuff with Trump aside, the stuff that bothers people. Because I can't change that. And there's a whole bunch of stuff with Biden as well.

And there's a whole bunch of stuff with RFK and Ron DeSantis and Obama. Like, stuff that, though, in the mainstream media, they choose to overlook. So it's about policy and it's about keeping us safer. And for me, it's a no-brainer. I have two other issues to go through if you got something on this. I just think it's disgusting that Karine Jean-Pierre is trying to take your look and is failing. Oh, yeah, that is not it is horrible Are you comparing back to Joe Rogan Dana white is that what you're doing? I'm gonna call back in comedy all I'm doing is saying is you're lovely

He's performing tonight, and he's but we'll pitch it up. She's ruining the vibe is all I'm saying yeah We'll pitch it up. She's ruining the vibe is all I'm saying. I have the vibe of her. 10 out of 10. Failing. Nothing close. Absolutely not even the same ballpark. Nothing close.

That's why you date 20 year olds. Because that makes sense. You meaning, not me. Him. Okay. Because they get offended and then they want to win him over and it's an easy way of, you know what I'm saying? Like he just says, you look like, you know, such a, no I don't, I'm better. Oh my God. And what if I find out you know what I'm saying like he just says 21 you look like you know such a no

I don't and I'm better. Oh my god, and what if I find that and show you I'm better That's the that's the structure. I like the system. We just revealed a little PBDs game 20s I dated 20-year-olds sometimes older, but that's because I don't look my age, but it is what it is Yeah, okay afraid of that you can no no, I had the opposite effect. Okay. All right Let's keep going Here we go this story, you know, there is a guy in sports for whatever reason. He's got a lot of different nicknames Okay, sweetheart gentle

kind Grateful wholesome easy to be around. Why is it that Keith Oberman, he's got this reputation of like, he's like a bundle of joy to be around. Is that a true rumor? She's getting hydrated. Do I have my, listen, we may have to fire up research teams. Where's my drink?

Where's my glass of wine or my shot of tequila? For God's sake. What is he like? Because I just watched this guy on Twitter. I'm like, is there a person more bitter, angry, and ungrateful than this guy? What's he like to work with? Miserable, miserable human.

No, he wasn't like that to work with. Interesting. He wasn't. What happened to him? He was fine. I would love to know. Do you think he'd come on my show? Oh, I would pay for that.

I pay for that. I would pay for that. I'm gonna to know, do you think he'd come on my show? Oh, I would pay for that. I would pay for that. I'm gonna invite him, and then he'll go on and tweet about how dumb I am. Again, it's funny because he has my phone number, he has ways to reach me, and if you have a problem with anything I'm saying, what a concept. Pick up the phone, send a text,

but these people are cowards, and Keith is at the top of the list. You think Keith is a coward? Yes. Why is he a coward? Talk to my my face you sat on my show by the way He was it was my Sports Center show and he filled in for my co-host at the time several times And the funny thing is and I say this I'm glad he likes dogs I get he likes to find dogs homes and it's a beautiful thing that he does on this Twitter every day

So I the show is in Bristol sports. I was in Bristol, but they needed Keith to fill in or ask them to fill in for whatever reason. Cause this is the third time at ESPN at this point, right? He's been fired a couple other times, the third time. And so you bring him back in and he's going to fill in a couple of times and maybe do some baseball tonight. And they were like, can you go to New York instead of him? I'm like, why?

I have three kids. I'm home. I'm doing all my stuff. Like, well well, he can't he can't leave his dogs for a night. I need I need you to Can you go to New York? I was like, okay, I'll work it out with my husband He'll take the kids and you know what? I'll get a nice dinner in New York City It's better than you know, Central Connecticut outside of Hartford So but he was kind I went into his office like how are you? Let's just back up for those of usCenter fans from back in the day, in particular, he was one of the goats.

Overman, David Patrick. Are you kidding me? Sick. Like the best. And so I was excited to work with him because he was past tense. And I passed him by at this point a couple of years ago the last time I hosted with him.

But it was like, it's Overman. This is amazing. And just to watch him and he's a beautiful, he's a writer. Like this is amazing. And just to watch him and what he's a beautiful, he's a writer. Like he's a, he was a journalist, but then you leave ESPN and MSNBC and CNN and where else did he work? In every single place you get fired. So at some point, my dad says that my retired army colonel West Point graduate dad, you got to look in the mirror every once in a while. And what's your track record? His track record is crap. So when people continue to hire somebody, when you know what they're going to bring,

that's on you. He was kind. He was fun. I was silly with my Instagram video and I'm like, hey, Keith. And we chatted it up and he didn't start attacking me until he learned, I guess, that I had more center right leanings and therefore I am the devil. Was it like that? Here's my question though.

Did this happen? It's like seven years years when did he start turning to this angry bitter person I think I think personally there's something deeper oh there is I mean there's something going on and mind you I'm not one to talk I'm on the market I'm dating I'm trying to get married I want to have kids he does he's not married he doesn't have any kids no these dogs are really important and then I looked up what what would make somebody so Angry and bitter and on his Wikipedia and I'm not this I'm I'm just stating a fact in 1980 He tried leaping onto a New York City subway train and he suffered a head injury, which permanently upset his equilibrium

Maybe maybe that would talk maybe what Trump derangement syndrome is just oh because how do you go from that? Maybe what Trump derangement syndrome is just, oh, because how do you go from that person to this angry biter? And then what do you say about her, Rob? She's the dumbest person I've ever worked with. Something is wrong in here. Something is wrong in here. And I think there needs to be a practice

started by psychiatrists for what Trump derangement syndrome does to people. And that's all their specialty is. He was miserable before Trump, and then it just went to the next level. Okay, see, I didn't know that. No, no, he was. He was. I didn't know that. But I don't really, and by the way, I mean, call me all the names you want. I've been there, done that, I'll take it. I don't care. I don't care what you think because I don't respect you, number one. But number two, like, okay, dumb. I don't know,

ESPN paid me a lot of money for many, many years. I don't know how dumb I am. But again, like, and by the way, I don't even, I don't block, I I am But again like and by the way, I don't block I think I've blocked like 12 people on Twitter ever maybe a few more, but I don't block him He can say what he wants I silence them because I choose to not have certain energies around me and you can sit there and read it all and then you go Then you're tempted to do what? And I used to do that and a couple times a year. I'll go back Adam. I did it recently So once or twice a year

just have fun with it because I'm like dude you like get a life he stands on the balcony with overlooking Central Park and then he talked about all the women that he dates and I would hope so after all those contracts at all those places but it's just the point is such a talented human being who has made a choice say to my kids all the time happiness is a choice He is choosing misery and to be hateful towards others. And so congratulations. Enjoy your life Yeah, I'll read about another person. Yeah, he should have money. He's been around the block for a minute and he's done well for himself Here's the next one that maybe maybe you have different thoughts about this. Maybe she's sweeter than who I don't know I mean, this is a different story.

The Rock displayed political cowardice by not endorsing Biden, former ESPN anchor said, and it's not you. ESPN anchor, Jamil Hill, said, this is the most statement non-statement I've ever heard. And I loved Dwayne Johnson. You know, during my time at ESPN, if you ask people, the number one person who they felt like when they did the car wash was like the best person that came through there in terms of like how they interacted with people, how nice they were, it was easily The Rock, or number two would have been Kevin Hart.

Hill was referring to the newsmaker at ESPN. And that's kind of frankly political cowardice on him. I don't understand how Joe Biden is divisive one, where what he's running against is pushing bigotries and a phobia, every other phobia and ism you could possibly name, that is what they're literally campaigning on. Joe Biden is not campaigning on those same things. And so I don't even understand how Joe Biden got attacked for being the one who's dividing

people. If Johnson wants to stop the division, then he shouldn't at all make it seem like he's aligned with the side that is pushing only division. Thoughts on this comment by Jameil Hill. First of all, when you were describing the comment and reading the comment without saying who said it. You knew already? Yeah. No, and by the way, I hadn't read it. Okay.

Like I hadn't even seen it. But you cannot do it. Again, I choose to keep certain people out of my space because I like positive people. She's not telling the truth and she's way too smart to not tell the truth about something like that because this administration has been incredibly divisive from day one on pretty much every topic And so like it's either being Uneducated ignorant lying. I don't know what it is

You know, I think it's so funny that that's so many people now are asked the question and then what because the rock has a certain Skin color she's saying shame on you basically so once again We pick and choose when we want to call out racism that is racist to say what a disappointment that you are choosing to vote for Or to not support Joe Biden now, right? Well, you're right because he's black Yeah, I don't even know what he is. Is he by racial? Samoan what does he has brown skin and therefore you must think a certain way it is so close-minded It is so racist. It is so tired yet It's so predictable and that's what's sad because I know her and she is better than that

She's one of the smartest people I've ever met and worked with and those comments are just stupid But to me it goes well beyond that. I think so many people like Jamel make the choice to just keep throwing that racist word out there. There's too much money to be made for them to not claim racism and any other ism and it just gets old. But that continues to do what? To divide this country and they want it and it's quite obvious because they can need to

choose to do it and shame on anybody For saying who you should vote for based on your skin color get the hell out of here They these the people that make it worse here and I can't yeah And and here's my thing because and it's always for the other side. What are they doing for the African American community? Please please let me know what the Democrats are doing That's so good that even thinking about voting not like Donald Trump is Like are you crazy this race isn't no what are they doing for you? I was wait who had the historically the lowest black unemployment numbers well enough

Let me take a guess Donald J. Trump facts weird okay, and by the way everybody loved him every single body loved in the moment He said I'm running racist racist racist. Got some crazy data here. Tom, can you show us what the Wall Street Journal poll just came up with early this morning, April 11th? Go for it. Well, you know what I like? My phrase is words talk, numbers scream. And this was a Wall Street Journal poll that was done and they compared exit polling figures at the time of the last election to current polling and they did it by race and People's identity identified gender Black men Biden carried 87 to 12 in the last election

Right now in a poll they did of swing states, it's 57 to 30. So there's been a shift among people thinking for themselves, asking is the economy better? What situation, what construct was giving me an ability to make my life better? You look at black women, it was 93%. Biden, 6% Trump. it's now 77-11. Again, this is a swing state poll. So this was Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona. That's great.

And which ones, I mean, which ones of those didn't go blue in the last election? Correct. Exactly. Exactly. Then, now let's look at black individuals who identified as having college degrees and they said night was 91 to 8 for Biden. It's now 71 18. And if you take people who are black, non-college 91 9 now it that's insane. So for the audience to see this, the light purple is 2020, the dark purple is now. Correct.

What a change. Massive. Massive shift. So what's going on? But there's a narrative in the news media that would like you to believe. And what I think is great about this is we all vote for ourselves and we ask ourselves the question that Ronald Reagan asked, and it could have been any president asking that are you better now? Than you were four years ago number one and number two am I helping you and the people the the african-american

Community in their polling right now is saying no by 12 and 15 point differences versus the election Coming up just shy of four years ago Well how much but my question to you is like when you hear her say something like that, you said she's one of the smartest people that you know. How much is it, if she's that smart, she's not dumb, she knows the numbers, is it that she really believes it in her heart or that she works for a company that she knows? It doesn't work for any company now does she? Is she by herself? She's independent I thought. And she's still sticking by this gun? Yeah it's gotten her far. It's made her a lot of money.

You know, I just don't, I think that people choose to believe what they want to believe and that can be said on the right as well. I mean, this isn't just the left thing. Yeah, for sure. I think that, but the vast majority of people are in that center region where I actually don't care who you're voting for. I don't either. Right?

Now, if we're going to go have dinner and hang out and have a deep conversation, like, let's talk about it. And it's fascinating because I want to learn from you and say, okay, I get that. And by the way, all of the all of our opinions, which goes on to who we vote for, are based on what our experiences, what we have experienced. So let's just be respectful and kind about it and not say, oh, you're the rock and shame on you and what a sellout and All the things like just just stop you are

Making it worse. You are contributing to what you say white people do to you like where the problem is and one of the few people who call that out is Jason Whitlock and so That's why I'm saying it's important to listen to people that even we don't like because there are very few Who are unafraid to point out those hypocrisies. And I think that that's the only way to do it. It's funny, though, in person, like I was at the Final Four in Phoenix, I had so many people coming up to me, so many black people coming up to me saying, keep going on this and I'm with you and you know, whatever Biden like, because it comes down to what you said, like, how is whoever is in

command? How is he helping us and our communities? And unfortunately, in these blue cities, it has been going south for I don't know, 50 years, but because what is preached is the Republicans hate you and the racist, they've listened. And I think now it's to the point where they're saying I let me do my own Research and be honest about it Even though it is scary to go against your family in many ways in your community There is an incredible pressure in the black community to stick to script Would there be anybody you wouldn't sit with Like, you know, you said you talk to Keith Obermann, you'll talk to this.

Would there be anybody like I just have no interest in talking to that person? Yeah, no. There's really nobody. I mean there's certainly people I'd prefer over others. Yeah, but I think that if you want to have a conversation. So you wouldn't run away if somebody wanted to sit down and have a conversation. It's like I want to talk to you and I want to do a long-form podcast. You would entertain a post of ideas. Oh, of course. And I would hope that they would sit down with me. However, I will say this. You would entertain a post of ideas. Oh, of course, and I would hope that they would sit down with me. However, I will say this.

If I'm choosing between one or the other, and there's someone that I know leads with hatred, and wants to be divisive, and is just going to try to use me to get some clickbait and do a fight, like, I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't, but it's just, it's a waste of my time. Like, I'm 51 years old, I feel the need to, like... You know why I like those?

You know why I like those? You know why I like those? Here's why I like those. Because at the end of the day, when you sit down with somebody like that, and somebody goes there, you've already won the argument. But the audience gets to see what they're saying, and you get courage and credit for agreeing to do that sit down

You almost come across fearless when you do that You know I'm saying and and you know, so there's there's something there time you were gonna say something about this Oh, go ahead. No, it's in the middle of the the dialogue there You commented about people coming up to you in Phoenix So you were seeing in whispers and people coming up to you these kind of figures coming true in Phoenix? Oh yeah. It's amazing. And then I get a lot of DMs.

And it's quiet. It's very quiet. It goes right back to how it was when I was at ESPN when there were a handful of conservatives and it was like, you kind of whisper in the corner literally, literally, or text me. You couldn't say it out loud. And the opposite certainly. It goes the opposite direction for people who thought the other way But they yes that they're coming up and but you know what?

It's conversations and I think people have been have realized over the last if nothing else just the last eight months since I've been Gone from ESPN that yeah, I'm not afraid to have a conversation. I'm not afraid to be attacked I'm not afraid any of it anymore and there there's power in that right I just it took me so many years to find it and to realize it and then once you get there and you aren't afraid of Being disliked which is a really big thing for me, you know But you know what your approach what it's doing just from listening to you right now You're kind of doing this which I like, you know I'm saying instead of doing this Yes, because sometimes there's certain people that do this like even Stephen A when he was

here and I asked him question I said if your mom was alive today okay and I said if he had a choice who she would vote for oh she'd vote for conservative Trump today her his mom so but but the fact that he's saying that and he's being straight up about it he knows the person that impacted his life the most as his mom and he's willing to give that straight up answer you got to respect it you're sitting here you've been complimentary you've given feedback to Candace and you've been complimentary and you've given feedback to Stephen and being complimentary we need a little bit of this right we need a little bit of hey I'm willing to talk it's okay feedback

to both sides I agree this is you I think this is gonna be a little bit of your brand and And believe it or not what that does is that opens up more people willing to come on your show Than being too much of just this or this or this and in others I mean like I just don't want to go talk to her now this and there's people who are you have said no already Because well, she's you know, she's right way I'm like have you have you met me have you talked to me? No, and it's easier because there are those people who are afraid to have the conversation as well I'll say this there was one woman that we had on

Recently and this show hasn't dropped yet So I won't I won't say her name But she will we're leaving we leave everything in on the show Obviously Joe Rogan Dana White everything stays on the show nothing gets edited out Even if I wish it could and that one I wanted to stay and I swear to God But this woman is a Hollywood actress very very very very liberal and At the end of the show when I was thanking her

She looked at me and she said I Gotta tell you Sage. I was nervous to come on As I did some research on you and I was concerned about what questions you were going to ask me and This was awesome. And thank you That hit me very hard because when I met her out in the hallway, I felt it I felt that chill and I I was like, okay. I was like, okay, let's go and Sometimes it isn't even the words or the question that you ask because it could be very political It's the way you say it and so to me that's everything and it was a victory for me because I know I felt her hesitation I felt that she was like, okay double sister saying I should do it fine. She has helped out more followers than me

She didn't need me. I'm so grateful that she took a chance. She's brilliant She took a chance. She's brilliant She took a chance She could probably talk circles around me and for her to admit that that she was like, I don't know about this That's my goal is to create the conversation that I wasn't afforded That not one person at the balls to do with me to pick up the phone to text or to call even friends Friends who are no longer friends, unfortunately So I if I if I acknowledge that that hurt, then I can't live that way, you know? I love it. That's why I love it.

And by the way, is it fair to say that the experience backstage at The View with Barbara Walters was slightly different, right? It was like, what happened there? We hear stories. What would happen? She literally like it was after the conversation about Obama where she was mad at me for not saying I'm black Just like the current president at the time. She literally bumped into you on the back No, like it was dark and there were several people around and I was standing kind of behind listen This is Barbara Walters. This is her area. She wanted the created. Yeah, it's created this show I mean, I didn't love some of things did journalistically, but she's still Barbara Walla Walla, right? And so that you know I'm and it's dark because it was a segment with the two other hosts and she and Whoopi came in the back And yeah, there's a trash can behind me. I'll never forget it, and she just looked at me and went oh

Oh damn! And kind of backed me and my makeup artist saw it and Whoopi saw it and I was like What the hell? I just started laughing! And Whoopi came out and she's like come here And she's like don't you let and I was like, oh damn Whoopee was amazing. I I've always loved whoopee. She was always super kind to me And I know she probably thinks I'm a nut job. It probably hates me. I don't know Hopefully not but like I'll never forget that moment where it's someone that you're in the presence of someone That's a true legend and pioneer and she didn't like my answer was trying to push me to answer a certain way Just like trying to push me to vote because of my skin color like what are you doing?

Shut up, but I didn't put and I was very respectful on the on the show But for her to elbow me and i'm like this chick is 87 years old And I just thought she was 87 when she did that. Oh, she was in her 80s. Oh respect Anybody anybody's gonna elbow you that's the person and she didn't break her bone and she didn't break her own arm. I hold me back I'm kidding right there She died kind of a cool story. Yeah Yeah, so many fun experiences on on the view that's that's for sure. Well fantastic. This has been great gang I want to wrap it up again if you got questions for sage she's she's on Manect, you can ask her. You can also go to the Manect with Adam, Vinny,

if you can go to the next one as well. Rob, you got their QR codes. You can ask him anything. Look at those handsome faces. Tom just crossed 2,000 Manects. Vinny just crossed 1,400. Tom's at 2,100 and I think Adam just crossed 1,500 just crossed 1500 pavement. Exciting stuff. And then tonight, some specials going on. Can you pull this up? Tell us about tonight. Hi guys, so guys, it's going to be the Valuetainment Takeover. Adam's performing, Rob's performing, we have special guests, maybe Bibi, maybe Gabriel,

we don't know. But guys, Miami Improv, the show, be there by 730pm. You want to go? Is this an invitation? You can go. The ticket link, Rob's going to put the ticket link. Guys, I want to sell this place out and I want to make noise tonight. Please guys, I'll see you guys there. It's going to be off the train.

Show some support. Listen. Where can they go to register? Oh, Rob, MiamiImprov.com. Give yourself a little credit. Guys, Vinny is headlining at the Miami Improv. I am simply hosting and bringing people on stage and setting the vibes. Our bread robin no pants is performing. Only in Dade will be there. Join us at the Miami Improv.

I will be there and I will be classing for all of you. Including you sir. Thank you for having me. Well guys everybody is going to be there and I appreciate you guys more than you guys most have ever been. I've been dying to take some classes. I think it's so Not I mean I'm already funny I'll be I'm just saying like the improv thing like I'm fascinated with this with you guys. Yeah, that's hard guys support The ticketing I love you. Thank you awesome and last but not least Go follow to see who that next guest would say just going to I can't wait when does it come out curious? Well the one from yesterday with Gina Carano and hurt and amazing

Lawrence the secret one's what secret one. I don't know I don't know weeks no three weeks I gotta talk we're figuring out next week. I think I know who next week is Yeah, I'm learning this whole world by the way. So any advice I will take it from CX. What's the schedule? What's your regular day? Every Wednesday. Every Wednesday? Yes, they'll show YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get the podcast. Sage, it's awesome having you on. I'm sure we will do many many more of these. Thank you for having me. Especially now that you are coming to the great state of Florida, South Florida. Finally. It's going to be great. Gang, take care everybody. Have a great weekend. Tomorrow morning, Dame Dash drops.

Dame Dash. We talked about a lot of different, we fought, we argued, we laughed, we poked, we trolled. We talked about a lot of different things. We talked Diddy, we talked Jay, we talked Biggs, we talked Aliyah. It was very interesting thing. We talked a lot, he kept bringing up Trump, but it'll drop come all morning. Take care everybody. Bye bye, bye bye.