People Who Knew Me - 11. Bonus

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

In this bonus episode of People Who Knew Me, Writer and Director Daniella Isaacs revisits the series and its existential themes with cast members Rosamund Pike, Kyle Soller and Isabella Sermon. They discuss what captivated them about the story of Emily faking her own death in 9/11, their own experience with truth and lies, and how this fuelled their performance. Credits Connie / Emily - ROSAMUND PIKE Drew - KYLE SOLLER Claire - ISABELLA SERMON Hosted by Daniella Isaacs Series adapted from the original novel and Consulting Produced by Kim Hooper Produced by Joshua Buckingham Executive Produced by Faye Dorn, Clelia Mountford, Sharon Horgan, Kira Carstensen, Seicha Turnbull and Brenna Rae Eckerson Executive Producer for eOne Jacqueline Sacerio Co-Executive Producer - Carey Nelson Burch Leo Executive Producer for the BBC Dylan Haskins Assistant Commisioner for the BBC Lorraine Okuefuna Additional Commissioning support – Natasha Johansson and Harry Robinson Assistant Producer Louise Graham Casting Director Lauren Evans Bonus episode Audio Recording & Post-Production by Soundcatchers Bonus Episode Sound Recordist Paul Cameron Bonus Episode Sound Editor & Mix Oliver Beard Music composed by Max Perryment Head of Production Rebecca Kerley Production Accountant Lianna Meering Finance Director Jackie Sidey Legal and Business Affairs Georges Villeneau and Susan Cooke at Media Wizards Additional thanks to: Emily Peska, Caitlin Stegemoller, Sam Woolf, Charly Clive, Ellie White, Ellen Robertson, Kate Phillips, Ed Davis, Ciaràn Owens, Jonathan Schey and Charlotte Ritchie.

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. Ever wondered what the world's wealthiest people did to get so ridiculously rich? Our podcast Good Bad Billionaire takes one billionaire at a time and explains exactly how they made their money. And then we decide if they are actually good, bad, or just plain wealthy. So if you want to know if Rihanna is as much of a bad gal as she claims, or what Jeff Bezos really did to become the first person in history to pocket $100 billion,

listen to good, bad billionaire with me, Simon Jack, and me, Zingsing, available now wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds, Music,'m Sophie Hagen. Our podcast, Bad People, is back for a new season. Every week we combine true crime and research from criminal psychology to investigate the deliciously dark question. Why do people do bad things? In this season, we dig into questions like can video games ever cause violence? I mean, how do you meant to react to that?

Do doctors need dark humor? No, I never, I never want to hit that again. And what rights does a dead body have? That is horrible. Bad people is back. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hi, welcome to the bonus episode of People Who New Me. I'm Daniela Isaacs, the writer and director of the show. I'll be chatting to Rosmond Pike, who plays Connie and Emily,

Kyle Solar, who plays Drew and Isabella Rosman Pike, who plays Connie and Emily, Kyle Solar, who plays Drew and Isabella Sermon, who plays Claire. If you haven't listened to the whole series yet, then I should warn you these conversations are filled with spoilers. Here we go. People who know me think I'm dead. There. Set it. Hello everyone, I'm Rosemond Pike and I had the privilege of playing Emily, Connie and

internal Connie in people who knew me. Hi Rosemond, very lovely to see you. Hello Daniela, lovely to see you too. And we start off, I'd love to know what attracted you to people who knew me. I think I'm very very interested in the energy of lying, the energy that it takes to tell a lie over a long period of time and the energy that that lie gathers and the corrupting force, kind of black hole of the suction powers of a lie over a long period of time. When I heard about the story and then I read your brilliant episodes, the one line of this show is clearly a sort of must here and must participate in. You know, the idea that somebody would take a national tragedy as an opportunity to fake

their own death. I mean, it's such a simple notion, which obviously immediately your brain takes in a million different directions at once. Who is the person who will capitalize on that at a moment of national mourning sees it as a chance to change their life. I mean, it's just a brilliant jumping off point, you know, but obviously you can't a series is much more than a jumping off point and the fact that you saw it through in, you know, every which way, right to a sort of very moving conclusion where, you know,

we come full circle and somebody has to confess, I think that it was the whole package, really. It drew me in from the opening monologue. So, as I was writing the show, one thing that I was aware of in terms of feedback was she might appear unlikable. Do you ever, did you think that? Do you ever think that when you're approaching a role? Of course. I mean, I think people can judge a character,

and I'm not scared of that. People who do morally reprehensible things are often the most fascinating people to watch at arm's length, you know, whether it's on your television screen or in the cinema or whether it's spending time listening to them, where a pooled and fascinated by people who live on the extremities and make decisions that most of us would never take or make life choices that most of us would never take. I think what's brilliant about this story is that everybody can empathize to a degree

because everybody will have told a lie at some point of their lives. And so when it's something that everybody can relate to, but it's taken to such extraordinary giddy sort of vertiginous heights, you know, it means everybody has a point of contact with it. And then it just goes further than you yourself could stomach. I think everybody has a interesting, well, everybody should have an interesting relationship with the truth, because I think, you know, as we move on in adulthood, I think probably most people will have had a realization, you know, from when as a child, you start to tell little lies, to avoid disapproval or consequences from the people who have taken care of you. You know, did you eat the biscuit? No, I didn't. Have you been watching television? No, no. You know, usually it's

it's to escape a consequence. And then I think as one gets into adulthood, hopefully one learns that telling the truth means fewer consequences because ultimately, people know when they're being lied to, usually. And people also know when they're delivered the truth as a sort of freedom for both sides. Can you understand why Emily lies? I mean, Emily lies through a cowardice

because it does take courage to tell the truth. She has been lying for a while for understandable reasons. She's been having an affair. Does she have reasons for that affair? Of course, you know, affairs usually don't come out of nowhere. They come out of a set of circumstances that often goes back months, weeks, years, leading to a breakdown of trust.

She started in a fair, her husband is in a very complicated situation dealing with an elderly parent who is suffering with Parkinson's disease. Of course, she uses that as an excuse not to tell the truth. He's got so much on his plate, it would hurt him, it would devastate him, he can't take any more, but it's also a convenient excuse. So she continues the lie, promising herself,

you know, there will be the right moment to confess. Then she finds out she's pregnant, and suddenly there's a matter of urgency, and at some point, the lie is going to be exposed for her, because her and her husband have not had a healthy sexual relationship, have laid, she's been sleeping with the man she's having the failure with, it's almost certainly his child. If she develops a baby bump, her husband's going to question it be surprised, of course, be delighted, but they're saying going to be the question of paternity further down the line. So, you know, she's kind of under the gun, the hammer is about to, and the hammer falls in a completely different direction, and 9-11 happens.

And at that point, she's working in the Twin Towers. Her boss, who she's having a affair with, is working in the Twin Towers. And it just so happens that on that morning, she'd stayed over at his apartment, and she wasn't at work, she'd gone in late. So avoiding telling the truth on one score, just in meshes you in a deeper tangle of lies, you know, for many, many years to come.

Can I understand why she does it? Can you? Yeah, I can. It makes my stomach go into knots as you're talking me through it, though, just each time thinking of that kind of scary web that gets more and more twisted as time goes on. Okay, let's move on to talking about Connie. Obviously, Connie experiences a very difficult terminal diagnosis. She runs away from 9-11. She loses her lover in 9-11 and she's pregnant. All of these things are such high stakes. And we had such a little amount of time to get through such an

intense story. I just wondered if you could or I'd love you to explain how you prepared for it. I think, you know, usually in the case of these things, good writing carries you through and if the writing is truthful, you can find the scene. You know, I think we can all imagine the horrendously painful reality of these situations and you just have to let it out. You know, I think we can all imagine the horrendously painful reality of these situations and you just have to let it out. You know, you have to trust that your body will inhabit the truth of it. And when you're confronted by another actor

in and the drama is right and the conflict within the scenes is written well, the feelings will emerge and they did and they do. When you put yourself imaginatively in a space and just let it be, your body conjures up everything. Shame, you know, confusion, despair, hope, love, all of it, really. For people you don't know, that's the mystery of it.

You know, I'd never met Hugh Laurie, I've never met Carl Soller, I didn't know Isabella, and yet suddenly in sort of two days, you feel this great love for all these people. It's the weirdest thing. And pain. I remember doing that scene where I bring Isabella, who plays Connie's daughter back to meet her father. At the point where Connie has to leave her at the door, because she knows she can't intrude on the new life of this man. She's so terribly hurt. I mean, I just couldn't... I had to leave the room, I mean. I could just sort of feel it, or it's the strangest thing. Sounds good, yeah. Great.

Great, so I'll maybe leave you guys to it. Yeah. That would be good. Yeah. Is that good for you, Claire? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. Cool. That's... Well, take your time. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hey, let's... Yeah. Okay. Bye, Ma' Ma. Love you. Have fun. I just felt so deeply, and it's all conjured. It's the mystery of it. So strange.

But probably because we can identify on some very human level with the story, how did you approach both Connie and Emily? Because obviously they're the same person, but they've essentially lived totally different experiences. So how did you approach Emily and Connie and did you ever kind of connect them in your mind? Well I worked obviously they're all of the they're American and I and I obviously had to try and find a specificity to voices and I hope listeners will

feel that you know Emily is younger than Connie, and, you know, has been through less and been through different things. She's much more open on the front foot. She's, and Connie is a mother. She's lived with grief in a way that, you know, Emily, we just see her putting her toe into the water of grief. But, you know, Connie's lives with the consequences of that grief and realises that she will forever have to raise this child as a consequence of her decision and her life is believing that she doesn't have a father when, in fact,

there is a father who believes his wife, the child's mother, to be dead. You know, that early part of her life, you know, as a mother, is not charted in the series, you know. So we jump forward, we jump forward to Claire being 14, so we miss something. So of course, she's different, you know, there's a 14-year gap, 15-year gap. I felt like there were three characters going on,

both Emily Cony and then having that much more unfiltered internal Cony, which was really fun to kind of jump three characters going on, both Emily Kony and then having that much more unfiltered internal Kony, which was really fun to kind of jump between what Kony says to the world and what Kony's thinking in her head. Yes, that's a gift. And she writes, you know, you thank goodness, you know, you have the skill to write so that it is actually rhythmically different as well, you know, it's not just, oh, this is the inside one and this is the outside one, they have, you know, the way they express themselves is different. It's the unfiltered version that comes out with a rapidity and a kind of mess and a brawl that's fun to play with. And fun because I feel like, well, I can only talk for me, but I'm like, yeah, that goes

on, it's so nice to be able to chuck it out into the world rather than have to constantly live behind a mask. Thank you Rosamond, what an absolute joy and thank you so much for bringing Emily and Connie to life in such a dynamic and brilliant way. I hugely appreciate it. I appreciate being asked to do it. That's the magic of audio as well. So I wonder, you know, I wonder how people picture how they look, you know, it's nice to not have to impose your own looks on someone's image of a character, you know, be interesting to see, you know, people can imagine Emily and Connie vocally from their voices, however they want. I think that's very freeing for an actor too. Yeah. Oh, it was great. Thank you, and I hope we continue to plot new fun things together.

Yes, me too. Thanks. Emily? Emmy? Emily Morris? I don't feel sick saying your name anymore. I don't. We're just going to take a break. We'll be back in a minute.

Seven years ago, I was filming East London Mosque. When the story broke, the three schoolgirls from the area had gone missing. They were heading to Syria to join the Islamic State Group. Breaking news this morning, three British schoolgirls are reportedly missing a match. Shemima Begum was the only one of the girls to emerge from the ashes of the so-called caliphate. I've retraced her steps from the UK through Turkey and into Syria to find people who knew her and to investigate the truth of her story. What do you think people think of you?

As a danger, as a risk, as a potential risk. The Shemima Begum story,, series two of I'm Not a Monster. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome back to this bonus episode of People Who New Me. Hello. Hi, I'm Emily. Emi. This is Jenny.

Emi and Jenny. Like you were some weird variety show. Hello. Hi, I'm Emily. I mean, this is Jenny. Emily and Jenny. Like you were some weird variety show hosts. This wasn't who Jenny was talking about. She was in a JFK junior kind of guys. This guy was messy.

This is Kyle Solar and I play Drew. Hi Kyle. Hey what's up? Nice to see you. Good to see you. And yes, as you said, you do play Drew. I wondered what drew you to saying yes to play Drew. What drew me to Drew? Yeah. I was really taken in by the complexity of the story as itself. And then the complexity of this character who was so devoted to this person who was going through an incredible crisis. And the overarching larger crisis of 9-11

that people were put into as a kind of fulcrum or crucible to kind of, I mean they weren't put into it by any kind of grand design, but they found themselves utterly changed by it. And I think exploring characters that exist in those kind of scenarios is always kind of compelling because people will be forced to behave differently, they'll be forced to question everything. In this case, they lose something more often than not. I really admired Drew's value system. I admired how I mean carrying an understanding and devoted he was. I guess I liked him because I felt like I could be friends with him. Yeah. You said he's incredibly devoted, which I agree with. And I guess connected to that is he was devoted to someone who eventually lied to him multiple times, eventually leading

to someone that lied so much that they fate their own death. One of the things that appealed to me when I first read the original book was that that spectrum of truth and lies, it's something I'm quite fascinated by. And yeah, the question that underpinned that for me was, how truthful should we be? I wondered if that question was something you thought about playing Drew in your response to both Emily and then obviously Connie coming back to you. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Drew exists on the kind of other side of the spectrum to Emily and Connie, doesn't he? Because he's technically quote unquote in the right. He hasn't, I mean, maybe he's lied to Emily slash Connie about other things, other smaller things, although

a lie is a lie, and that's maybe another topical conversation, like his growth throughout the story and being met with this person that he thought was dead, like how long was it, like 15 years or so? 14 years. 14 years. I mean, that's another thing that drew me to the character actually. It's like that kind of a reveal, that kind of like complete upheaval of you've grieved someone and then you started another life.

And I think he continued to grieve for her. And then this person shows up again with a daughter. And you've already got another family. And like, I've never played a character like that before and that was that was incredibly tantalizing. Emily? Yeah. I went on medication.

We had a funeral. I know. I'm sorry. No, you don't. And then you write me a fucking Facebook. It's a tell me you. So fuck. I gotta go.

Um, I think I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient.

I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. Oh, fuck! Oh, I gotta go. I think, ultimately, if we're gonna speak about the value of truth telling and honesty, I mean, certainly within a relationship you create micro-tronmas by these little white lies, larger lies, medium lies, any kind of lie. And I'm just thinking of her relationship with Drew. If she was to be as her authentic self, she'd have to say, and she tries, in episode five, I think, to say, okay, you want me to be honest, I'll be honest, go and get a job, and

I don't want to look after your mum. And as a consequence, understandably, I think, Drew responds and shouts back. And so she tries to be honest and it doesn't work. And yeah, I just wondered, I guess, yeah, if you can understand. And if maybe Drew can kind of take some form of responsibility, too. Well, this is the other thing I was going to say is that there's more than one person in a relationship.

Drew, in my opinion, very clearly is a typical example of a male who's grown up during this time period, who has not evolved into an adult and is a bit of a boy, boy man, man child situation. That was even like really supported in popular culture for a while. All those, not gonna call anyone out, but like there are a lot of films supporting that archetype of this man child.

Encouraging people to laugh at it, encouraging teenage boys, older men to identify with it and go like, okay, I don't have to grow up that much. And you can certainly enter into a relationship into a dysfunction of needing your partner to be your parent, because you never had that right of passage to individuate yourself from your parents. So you never found the capacity to follow on your own two feet, to have your ambition fully realized within yourself, or if you have no ambition, which is also fine, like to be completely upfront about that,

and then you wouldn't probably attract a partner like Connie or Emily, right? Like, and in that moment of episode five, I mean, like, I scream out with compassion to Emily and Connie to just go like, God, if you only had the right words, if you only could like sit down and say like, you want me to be honest, this is very painful for me to say, but here's a list of grievances that have accumulated because I've not been able to be authentic with you.

Do you have any for me? Let's have these out. But it's reminding me that there's just so much unsaid between them and when a relationship lasts for a significant amount of time, the list becomes too long maybe. So those lies are much easier to sit with than being like, okay, you want to know my long list? Here we go. One more question. If you could run away somewhere, where would you go? And what would you miss? I feel like so many places in the world, I have yet to experience that probably feel like

a safe little spiritual cave for me. One of those places is in the Mediterranean and I'm not going to say where it is. I would miss my family, 100%. Great, I feel like we've gone through so much, so thank you very, very much. Well, thank you for creating this and thank you for sitting with me and asking these cool questions. Welcome to Hair with Claire. Whoa. Some of your hair blocked the shower up. I bought Dreno.

Clear it. Sorry. It's okay. But it is time you got shorn. But it is time you got shorn. Hello, I'm Isabella Sermon. I play Claire. Yes, I'm very excited to talk. Very excited to be here. Thanks, Isabella.

So yes, as you said, obviously, in the show you play Claire, Emily's Connie's daughter. And she's 13 in the show. And I just wondered as you're still a teenager. I'm really interested in how teenagers think teenagers are represented on screen or in audio and stuff like that. So I just wondered how you find it. I think I know definitely in this I was very kind of happy with the way that it was done. Some things, there can be a little bit of, like, misrepresentation, because it's, like, adults writing t-shirts and, like, I guess, putting their perspective of how the, like, the teenage brain works and the way teenagers think into writing when it's not completely

and entirely true. But I feel like this made a lot of sense, and I'm very happy with the way that it was done. Thank you, I've paid you. I'm joking. In what way do you think it felt true? Well, I just think that Claire is very honest, and she has this sense of rebellion. She does what she wants, for example,

the bit where she shapes her, she cuts all her hair off. But it's not like rebellion, these kind of feelings of like, I guess, confusion for like no reason. She has motivation for it, because I guess she, right before she cuts all her hair off, she has this argument with her mom and then when she kind of, she's found with the, like, bottle of fantasy, I think,

it's obviously because she's, like, there's motivation behind it. It's not just, kind of, rebellion for no reason. Now just go. I hate my hair. I wish I'd never shaved it. Just go. Your hair, it's beautiful. I told you you look like Tinkerbell. Just leave me, please. You want me to perform Cillin Deanna, my own. I don't care. Just go.

Come on, Claire. We got one night I don't care. Just go. Come on Claire, we got one night. Stop, please. Just go. So the rebellion is because Connie has essentially liked her about who she is. Yeah, completely. What do you think of that? Your mom's lie. I mean, if it were me, I would not be very happy with that. Connie kind of has her reasons for it and I guess she's kind of wanting to protect Claire from what she's done because at the end of the day like it's quite a big deal, like it's

quite a bad thing that she's done, like I guess using like a national, international tragedy to escape her in life. I guess you could see it as like a pretty selfish thing to do and I guess she wouldn't really want to like inflict that onto her child or make her child think that that is like change her child's view of her. Yeah and that's clear. I don't know if you kind of thought about this as you were approaching the role, but do you think that she'll ever be able to forgive her mum? That's a good question. I feel like in that kind of relationship, like especially familial relationships, I feel like you could do things that are really bad, but you're more likely to forgive

someone because I guess it's like your family at the end of the day. It's not like a friend, but it's like your family, you grow up together, you kind of, you're like a singular unit, I guess, and especially with Claire and her mum. They are, it's just them, kind of, against the world. And Claire doesn't really have anyone else. So I mean, I guess it could take us some time, but I feel like eventually, even if it is a long time,

she might have some sort of sense of forgiveness. Yeah, I think. In the show, there are a few moments where she kind of loses it with her mom as a consequence. Could you kind of relate to that? Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's difficult like,

with any kind of relationship, there are moments where you get frustrated with how the people and it's difficult, but I guess at the end of the day, you should have to talk about it. Communication is like the key to everything. And I guess this was a very different medium to explore those things, meaning because it was audio. You didn't have a camera. We just had our voices really and movement and I made sure you ate lots of food during the scene. I just wondered how that changed or did it change your approach in any way. I thought that it would but it kind of didn't because what was really really great about making this was that like I was thinking initially when we go to record this I'm just gonna be like sitting in a booth with a mic in front of me.

But it was really good, because I guess with Rosamond and with Kyle and everyone else, we were trying to act it out, which made the whole thing a lot easier to do, and it felt a lot more fluid and real. And especially, I know it was just because of, I guess, sound and the different sounds that are made by the space field, but even shifting the, I don't like, sound and, like, the different sounds that are made by, like, the space field.

But even, like, shifting the... I don't know what they call the things on the wheels. Oh, wait, we should probably explain to anyone this year. But the way we recorded this was, and we gave everyone a head mic. So, radio mics is if we were, kind of, recording a TV show. And then we moved the set around so that we could feel as intimate as possible

without goal, kind of, always being that we were at eavesdropping in on conversation. So yeah, just like moving the board partition wheel things around to like change the shape of the space. So where the way we were in like a car or in a big room outside, like it was just super helpful. And I guess also the other difference is how quick it was. So as we said, you were only there for a day. Yeah. And you had to kind of create a mother-daughter relationship with her husband within a matter of minutes. Yeah. How did you find that? I mean, for some reason, like, when you say it like that, it sounds like an

impossible task. But it was, like, it seemed, it felt very simple, like, because I guess Rosamond is obviously very good at her job. And so she made it a lot easier for me to kind of make the connection between the two characters in a very, very short space of time, which hopefully it's portrayed in the show. Taliya told me that she loves me, by the way. Whoa. Don't stop, stop. I don't want to talk about it.

Sorry. No, but that's very by the way. Whoa. No, stop, stop. I don't want to talk about it. Sorry. No, but that's very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I said it back. That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

First love changes a person. I really think that. You do? Yeah. Huh. There's yours. I really think that. You do? Yeah. There's yours. Drew. Actually, yeah. Drew was my first love.

I just realized I haven't asked you what attracted you to the role. Well, I remember when I first kind of read through it, it's very apparent that the mother-daughter relationship is kind of flipped. Claire becomes more of the almost the more maternal figure in it, because Connie slash Emily is a bit lost. She doesn't really know how to process what she's done. Then she, on top of that, gets cancer. And so she inverts it on herself almost a little bit.

It's Claire's job to try and support her, which I found interesting. And it's something that you don't really see a lot in like, script and stuff, where that kind of flip between mother and daughter. And when I read through, I was just really interested in it. Yeah, it's like a very, Claire feels like a very strong character, which I really like.

That's great. Thanks so much. It was my pleasure. Thank you very much. You're home now Emily home We're home. Thanks for walking alongside me The best. Kani.

X. That's it. We've come to the end of the show. Thanks so much for listening to people who knew me. If you enjoyed it, then please recommend the show to others. I guess all that's left for me to do now is fake my own death and start it all again. Goodbye! This bonus episode was produced by Joshua Buckingham.

The assistant producer was Louise Gray in Music by Max Perriement, Assistant Commissioner Lorraine Equipner, and the commissioning editor was Dylan Haskins. It was a murmur and mermaid production for BBC Sounds. Hey, baggy flamboyant, luminous green pink and yellow shirt, grill-creamed hair, boy-bounce, Levi's denim jackets, walk on the clown. Welcome to Belfast 1997, not just any old part of Belfast, but gay Belfast. It was electric. There was a Seminick guy dancing in cages. Every cell in my body was just lit up.

Sad at the bar was Diron Bradshaw. What happened next would go on to threaten peace in Northern Ireland. One of the few gay police officers in the country. Shot dead. If someone had told them that Diron Bradshaw was going to be murdered, it's a story that's never been told before. For his own skin, he traded darn life. This is Blanda Dancefloor.

Listen to me on BBC Sons. Sons. Never wondered what the world's wealthiest people did to get so ridiculously rich? Our podcast Good Bad Billionaire takes one billionaire at a time and explains exactly how they made their money. And then we decide if they are actually good, bad or just plain wealthy. So if you want to know if Rihanna is as much of a bad gal as she claims, or what Jeff Bezos really did to become the first person in history to pocket $100 billion.

Listen to Good Bad Billionaire with me Simon Jack. And me Zingsing, available now wherever you get your podcasts.