Pints With Aquinas - 153: Is it possible to hate God?

Starting point is 00:00:00 G'day there. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. If you could sit down over a pint of beer with Thomas Aquinas and ask him any one question, what would it be? Today, we're going to ask Thomas about hatred. Yes, hatred. A lovely topic to begin your morning with. We're going to talk about, can we hate God? Is it actually possible to hate God? We're going to look at the different articles in the Secundus Secundi that Aquinas has on hatred. We're also going to be referencing Dostoevsky a great deal. So imagine a bar table, you and me on one side, Aquinas, Dostoevsky on the other, right? Theodore's drinking vodka. The angelic doctor's got a stout. You and me are drinking as well. And we're just going to chat about spite, hatred, envy. Again, a lovely way to begin your morning.

Starting point is 00:01:03 Welcome back to Plains of Aquinas, the show where you and I pull up a barstool next to the angelic doctor to discuss theology and philosophy and hatred. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. I think one of the reasons I started thinking more about spite, hatred and envy is I was reading, finally got around to reading Dostoevsky's book Notes from Underground. was reading, finally got around to reading Dostoevsky's book Notes from Underground. And if you ever want to know what spite is, if you ever want to see a book that sort of illustrates what spite looks like in a man, like what is a truly spiteful man, Notes from Underground is the place to go. It's a very existential novel. So it has two parts. And in the first, it's just, as I say, the kind of rambling thoughts of this really bitter, hate-filled, awful human being. And then the second is called Apropos of the Wet Snow, in which he talks about different things

Starting point is 00:01:51 that happened in his life that led to him destroying the lives of other people and hating himself. Here is a quote. I want to show you a quote from him so you can get the kind of idea of what I'm talking about. So in the novel, Apollon is his servant who he has to pay and who he ends up hating. Listen to this. He says, Apollon drove me beyond all patience. He was the bane of my life, the curse laid upon me by providence. We had been squabbling continually for years and I hated him. My God, how I hated him. I believe I had never hated anyone in my for years, and I hated him. My God, how I hated him. I believe I had never hated anyone in my life as much as I hated him, especially at some moments. He was a pedant, to the most extreme point, the greatest pedant I had met on earth, and with that had a

Starting point is 00:02:39 vanity only befitting Alexander of Macedon. He was in love with every button on his coat, every nail on his fingers, absolutely in love with them. And he looked it in his behaviour to me. He was a perfect tyrant. My hatred reached such a point that sometimes his very step almost threw me into convulsions. What I loathed particularly was his lisp. He maddened me particularly when he read aloud the Psalms to himself behind his partition. Apollon seemed to me for some reason an integral part of that flat. For seven years, I could not turn him away. So a real hateful, despicable kind of guy. So that got me thinking, what does Aquinas have to say on hatred? Well, he addresses it in the Secunda Secundae, Article 34.

Starting point is 00:03:31 He has six, sorry, Question 34. He has six articles. So I want to look primarily at the first one. We'll summarize the other five. And then I want to look at the possibility of holy hatred and whether that's a thing. Aquinas kind of addresses that as well. So, here are the six articles. Number one, is it possible to hate God? Yeah, this show is called Pints with Aquinas. And again, one of the reasons I love the name of this podcast is because I came up with it, but also

Starting point is 00:04:06 I love the name of this podcast is because I came up with it, but also because the idea that where there is wine, there is truth, right? In vino veritas. And some of the best discussions I've had with people, some of the best theological and philosophical discussions have been over a pint of beer, you know, even with a stranger. And this seems like the sort of question that someone might ask, you know, could you hate God? Like, is it possible to hate God? If God is all-encompassing in truth and goodness, can one hate Him? Yes, that's the first question, so we'll spend the most time on that. And then here are the other five. Is hatred of God the greatest of sins? Is hatred of one's neighbor always a sin? Is it the greatest of all sins against our neighbor? Is it a capital sin? Now, you already know that it isn't, right? Hatred is not one of the seven capital sins. That's interesting. Why on earth not? Have you ever wondered why? And so, then Aquinas finally is going to say, well, okay, so since it's not one of the capital sins, from what capital sin does it arise?

Starting point is 00:05:09 Does it flow from? And then finally, I want to look, as I say, about this idea of holy hatred. Okay, so we read, for example, in Psalm 139, verse 21 and 22. Do I not hate those who hate you? Abhor those who rise against you? I hate them with a perfect hate, and they are foes to me. Now, presumably, without looking into it a great deal, David isn't sinning when he hates those who hate God. So, is it possible to have a sort of holy hatred? So, that's what we're going to take a look at today. Let's begin here with the first article. Is it possible for anyone

Starting point is 00:05:52 to hate God? Let's take a look at the three objections. We'll just read through them, the said contra, the respondio, and then the responses. So, the first objection, and notice how reasonable these objections are. Like, if I was to ask you, can someone hate God? What do you think? And if you'd never read Aquinas, you would probably, if you had thought about it a great deal and you were articulate and succinct, you'd be able to say something like the following. You probably would say something like the following. You might say, well, look, it would seem that no man can hate God. All right. For Dionysius says, the first good and beautiful is an object of love to all, but God is goodness and beauty itself. Therefore he is hated by no one. Second objection. It is written that all things

Starting point is 00:06:42 call upon truth and all men do well like of her works. Now, God is the very truth, according to John 14, 6. I am the way, the truth, and the life. Therefore, all love God and none can hate him. Thirdly, hatred is a kind of aversion. But according to Dionysius, God draws all things to himself. Thirdly, hatred is a kind of aversion. But according to Dionysius, God draws all things to himself, therefore none can hate him. After we see the three objections, we see the said contra. And here, Aquinas, like usual, appeals to authority.

Starting point is 00:07:22 Here he appeals to two scripture verses to show that it is actually possible to hate God. At least the scriptures say that it is. What do they mean? Well, in Psalm 73, 23, we read, The pride of them that hate thee ascendeth continually. We read in John's gospel, chapter 15, verse 24, But now they have both seen and hated both me and my father. Here's the main response of Aquinas.

Starting point is 00:07:47 He says, as shown above, hatred is a movement of the appetitive power, which power is not set in motion, save by something apprehended. So in other words, he's saying you cannot hate what you don't apprehend. In other words, he's saying you cannot hate what you don't apprehend. Aquinas continues that God can be apprehended by man in two ways. First, in himself, as when he is seen in his essence. Secondly, in his effects, when to wit, the invisible things of God are clearly seen seen being understood by the things that are made. We read that in Romans 1.20. Now God in his essence is goodness itself.

Starting point is 00:08:36 So no one can hate that. In his essence, if you were to apprehend God in his essence, you could not hate Him. This is why when you will, if please God, if you will be saved and before God in heaven in the beatific vision, it is impossible to hate Him. In His essence, God in His essence is goodness itself, which no man can hate, for it is natural to good to be loved. The only reason you have ever loved anything is because you have perceived it good in some way. That includes your sins. When you looked at pornography last week, when you went out last month and got really drunk, when you stole money from that place you used to work at, when you committed adultery, so on and so forth.

Starting point is 00:09:28 When you got very angry at your children, screamed at them and maybe hit them and hurt them in a really severe way. I don't know. Maybe when you bullied a kid at school, the only reason you pursued these things is because you perceived in it a good. And it may have been the good of feeling superior. It may have been the good of feeling in control. It may have been the good of pleasure. Now, these weren't in and of themselves goods, but you perceive them to be goods, which is why you and I love them, right? So, it's natural to good to be loved. And since God in his essence is goodness, to apprehend him in his essence would make it impossible to hate him. So, Aquinas concludes, it is impossible for one who sees God in his essence to hate him.

Starting point is 00:10:33 Moreover, Aquinas continues, some of his effects are such that they can no wise be contrary to the human will. Since to be, to live, to understand, which are effects of God, are desirable and lovable to all. Wherefore, again, God cannot be an object of hatred if we consider Him as the author of such like effects. Some of God's effects, however, are contrary to an inordinate will, such as the infliction of punishment and the prohibition of sin by the divine law. Such like effects are repugnant to a will debased in sin. And here's the line. Here's why we can hate God. And as regards the consideration of them,

Starting point is 00:11:22 God may be an object of hatred to some insofar as they look upon him as forbidding sin and inflicting punishment. So, an analogy to this might be child and parent. I remember when I was a kid and my parents either didn't allow me to do something that I wanted to do, or they grounded me or punished me in some way. I remember sitting in my room, sulking and saying that I hated them, right? I hate them. I hate dad. I hate mom. hate them. I hate dad. I hate mom. Why? Well, presumably they were looking out for my good and whatever else I ought to have been obedient to them when they told me to do this or to do that. And I hated that. I hated that, you see. Now, of course, it's possible to hate one's father because we apprehend him as he is. It's possible to do that in the way it's not possible for God, but I think there's an analogy there.

Starting point is 00:12:33 So here are the responses to the objections. So you remember the first objection was God is good and beautiful and you can't hate that. Second objection was God is truth and like we all love truth. And thirdly, hatred is a kind of aversion, but God draws all things to himself. So, the reply to the first objection is, this argument is true of those who see God's essence, which is the very essence of goodness. Namely, yeah, I agree with you. If you see God's goodness, you can't hate him, but that's not what we're talking about. Second response to the objection is, this argument is true insofar as God is apprehended as the cause of such effects as are naturally beloved of all, among which are the

Starting point is 00:13:14 works of truth who reveals himself to men. Aquinas addressed that in the respondio. And then finally, it's true that God draws all things to himself insofar as he is the source of being, since all things, in as much as they are, tend to be like God, who is being itself. So, again, we see the genius of Aquinas. So, is it possible to anyone to hate God? And he says, yes and no. But you've seen now why he says yes. So, let's just sum up the other five articles here. And so, the second article being, where the hatred of God is the greatest of sins. So, Aquinas says that, yeah, like manifestly, it's the worst sin for the evil of sin consists in the fact that it turns the soul away from God. And there can be no more complete and dreadful turning from God than by hatred of God.

Starting point is 00:14:13 The third article asks whether the hatred of one's neighbor is always a sin. always a sin. And Aquinas says that it's always a sin to hate our neighbor because he quotes 1 John 2 verse 9, he that hateth his brother is in darkness. So, we are to hate the sin in our brother, but we are to love our brother. You may have heard that before, right? Love the sinner, hate the sin. Well, that's a very kind of Thomistic thought. You know, sometimes you hear these things repeated and you wonder if they're just cliches that we shouldn't actually be believing. Well, no, we should actually hate, we should love the sinner and we should hate his sin. And these two things aren't in conflict. And we'll talk about that a little bit later when I turn to holy hatred and whether that's a possibility.

Starting point is 00:15:08 So, fourthly, he asks whether the hatred of our neighbor is the greatest sin that we can commit against him. And he says it's less hurtful to him than other sins, such as theft, murder, adultery. And so, it's not true to say that hatred is the most grievous sin against one's neighbor. The fifth article is, is it a capital sin? Why is not hatred one of these seven deadly sins? Well, he says that it's not listed as a deadly sin because other sins may arise from hatred. That's true. Okay. So when we talk of capital sins, these are the sins from which other sins flow.

Starting point is 00:15:53 So it's true that other sins can arise from hatred as their source, right? itself is not promptly present to fallen nature, but comes as the result of the gradual deterioration and destruction of love. So, let me read you his respondio, because I think that is a very beautiful and powerful point. He says, as stated above, a capital vice, that is a deadly sin, right, or a capital sin, is one from which other vices arise most frequently. Now, vice is contrary to man's nature in as much as he is a rational animal. And when a thing acts contrary to its nature, that which is natural to it is corrupted little by little. Consequently, it must first of all fail in that which is less in accordance with its nature, and last of all, in that which is most in accordance with its nature, since what is first in construction is last in destruction.

Starting point is 00:17:03 Instruction is last in destruction. Now that which, first and foremost, is most natural to man is the love of what is good, and especially love of the divine good and of his neighbor's good. Wherefore, hatred, which is opposed to this love, is not the first but the last thing in the downfall of virtue resulting from vice. And therefore, it's not a capital vice. That makes sense? So, since the most natural thing in us is to love what is good and to love our neighbor is also a natural thing, it's what results from other sins. It's not the beginning. It's not like you wake up and just choose to have a hatred for what's good. Yeah. So, again, I really like that. Hatred is something that comes as the result of the gradual deterioration and destruction of love. And then finally, whether hatred arises from envy. These are sins, vices we don't talk a lot

Starting point is 00:18:10 about these days. Let's take a look at this. Whether hatred arises from envy. Let's look at one of the objections because Aquinas is going to say, yeah, it does. He says, here's the objection. It seems that hatred doesn't arise from envy, for envy is sorrow for another's good. Now, hatred does not arise from sorrow, for on the contrary, we grieve for the presence of the evil we hate. Therefore, hatred does not arise from envy. He says, it is because he intends to avoid that which is naturally an object to be shunned. I'll say that again. It's a good one. If man declines from that which is natural, it's because he intends to avoid that which is naturally an object to be shunned. Now, every animal naturally avoids sorrow, just as it desires pleasure, as the philosopher states in the Ethics. Accordingly, just as love arises from pleasure, so does hatred arise from sorrow. There you are. There it is. Just as love arises from pleasure, hatred arises from sorrow. For just as we are moved to love whatever gives us pleasure in as much as

Starting point is 00:19:48 for that very reason it assumes the aspect of good, so we are moved to hate whatever displeases us insofar as for this very reason it assumes the aspect of evil. Wherefore, since envy is sorrow for our neighbor's good, it follows that our neighbor's good becomes hateful to us. So that out of envy cometh hatred, which is a quote from Gregory. So, hatred grows out of the capital sin of envy. So, this hatred is not a mortal sin. It flows from a mortal sin. And that mortal sin, that deadly sin, rather, not mortal sin, deadly sin, is envy, which is sorrow over neighbor's good. As Aquinas says, envy makes a neighbor's good hateful to the envious man.

Starting point is 00:20:44 Envy makes a neighbor's good hateful to the envious man. We see this again in Notes from Underground, that this spitefulness, which is this desire to intentionally hurt somebody or oneself and to almost revel in it, to take delight in it. in the man from Notes from Underground, that it was his envy of others, the good that others seemed to have that he didn't, that turned him into this bitter, twisted, spiteful man. Listen to this quote from, gosh, I just love Dostoevsky so much. And look, and I'll just be honest, as I read Notes from Underground about this bitter, twisted, dark, awful, spiteful man, I saw myself in him. That's what's so terrifying about it. And I think if you read it, you'll find that to be true of you too. By the way, if you've been wanting to get into like some good literature, maybe Dostoevsky, but The Brothers or Crime and Punishment seemed a bit too large for you. Notes from Underground is quite a short book.

Starting point is 00:21:44 It's only about 100 and something pages. So that might be a good place to start. Although just be advised that the first half is more difficult to get through than the second half. But look at this. He says, I hated my face, for example, found it odious, and even suspected that there was some mean expression in it and therefore every time I came to work I made a painful effort to carry myself as independently as possible and to express as much nobility as possible with my face. Let it not be a beautiful face, I thought, but to make up for that let it be a noble, an expressive, and above all, an extremely intelligent one. Yet I knew, with certainty and suffering, that I would never

Starting point is 00:22:33 be able to express all those perfections with the face I had. The most terrible thing was that I found it positively stupid, and I would have been quite satisfied with intelligence. Let's even say I would even have agreed to a mean expression, provided only that at the same time my face be found terribly intelligent. Beautiful. Here's another quote from him. So when he's writing, he's sort of addressing this unnamed group of people, which he calls gentlemen, which I think stands for sort of the polite society that he absolutely hates, detests, resents. He says, Oh, gentlemen, do you perhaps, do you know, perhaps I consider myself an intelligent man? Only because all my life I have been able neither to begin nor to finish anything.

Starting point is 00:23:29 Granted, I am a babbler, a harmless, vexatious babbler, like all of us. But what is to be done in the direct and sole vocation of every intelligent man is babble. That is, the intentional pouring of water through a sieve. One more. I'm sorry. I just think this guy is so disgusting that I love him. Let's read this. Again, this really does come back, I think, to envy. Like we see the good of another and we hate it. And this gets back to kind of like what I've talked about in the past about Nietzsche's understanding of resentimo. You know, you see a good, you cannot attain it. You either admit that you're impotent or you hate

Starting point is 00:24:15 the good and those who can attain it. This is something we're all susceptible to. He says, man is stupid, you know, phenomenally stupid, or rather, he is not at all stupid, but he is so ungrateful that you could not find another like him in all creation. of general prosperity, a gentleman with an ignoble or rather a reactionary and ironical countenance were to arise and, putting his arms akimbo, say to us all, I say, gentlemen, hadn't we better kick over the whole show and scatter rationalism to the winds, simply to send the logarithms to the devil, and to enable us to live once more at our own sweet, foolish will. That again would not matter. But what is annoying is that we would be sure to find followers such as the nature of man. So what he's talking about here is basically, and this is a theme that runs through all of Dostoevsky's work. It's the idea that if everything was perfect, it wouldn't be. That we are incapable of full happiness in this life. And that even if all of your cares were taken care of and all you had to do, and this is a quote from Man from Underground, right, is have sex, eat cake and rest.

Starting point is 00:25:44 is have sex, eat cake, and rest. If that's all you had to do, you'd still find a way to balls it all up. And the reason you would do it would be out of this desire, at least for freedom. Anyway, so there's a lot here that's really beautiful. But this resentment that creeps into man from underground is a resentment that can creep into your heart and to my heart. Think about that right now. Let's just get a little uncomfortable here. Usually the people that we hate are people in the same sphere as us. So let's say you're a realtor. Then you might be tempted to hate another realtor

Starting point is 00:26:29 who's more successful than you. Let's say you are a Catholic blogger. Then you might tend to be able to fall into hatred of another Catholic blogger, usually one who's more successful than you. another Catholic blogger, usually one who's more successful than you, right? It's true. We find this envy, which is an evil, and that leads us to a sort of hatred. So, again, just to kind of get real, who in your life do you not like seeing success? Let me rephrase that because that was a hopeless sentence. There are people in your life that you see on social media and when their life looks amazing, you want to cringe. You've probably unfollowed people because you don't like seeing how perfect their family is or how perfect their career is or how perfect their body is and you wish that they would

Starting point is 00:27:25 shut up and stop talking about it anyway. I don't know, man. I think this is a really powerful insight that very often what happens is we see the good of another, we do envy them and want to hate them. But in order to convince ourselves that we're really good people, we say things like, oh, I feel sorry for her that she's so concerned about her looks. I feel sorry for him that he feels like he needs to get a good education and he travels a lot. Yeah, he makes a lot of money, but he's not present to his family in the way that I'm present. Anyway, I don't know. I find this insight of resentment extremely, well, insightful, and I think it applies to a lot of us. And so, anyway, I just wanted to make you feel uncomfortable and guilty. So, all right. Now, let's do one more

Starting point is 00:28:19 thing. Let's talk about holy hatred, shall we? So, I already mentioned a moment ago that David often in the Psalms talks about, you know, hating. And so, what's the deal with that? You know, we read in Matthew's gospel, this is straight from the words of Christ, right? Sermon on the Mount, you've heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I said, you love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Well, how do we do that? Well, here's what's interesting, right? And this gets back to what we said about Aquinas a moment ago. In order to love our enemies, we have to love who they are, and who they are are persons made in the image and likeness of God. So, to love someone doesn't just mean to feel warm, mushy feelings towards them. It means to

Starting point is 00:29:06 wish them well and where appropriate and on a heroic level to do good for them. So to want their good and wherever possible to help bring that about. But with this love comes a concomitant hatred, namely for the obstacles to our enemy's true flourishing. That is external things, but also their sin. So, if I love you, I will hate what is opposed to your flourishing. Do you see? I can't love you and be indifferent to what is opposed to your flourishing. If I love you, I must hate that. And to the degree in which I love you and be indifferent to what is opposed to your flourishing. If I love you, I must hate that. And to the degree in which I love you will be to the degree in which I hate whatever is opposed to your good. And again, this is why Thomas explains, here's that quote again, consequently, it is lawful to hate the sin in one's brother and whatever pertains to the defect of divine justice,

Starting point is 00:30:08 but we cannot hate our brother's nature and grace without sin. Now, it is part of our love for our brother that we hate the fault and the lack of good in him, since desire for another's good is equivalent to hatred of his evil. So there it is, right from the pen of Aquinas. That last sentence really hit me. Now it's part of our love for our neighbor that we hate the fault and the lack of good in him, since desire for another's good is equivalent to the hatred of his evil. So when Christ says that we shouldn't hate our enemies, we should love them, that's exactly right, obviously, because he's Christ, sorry,

Starting point is 00:30:54 didn't mean to make that obvious comment. We shouldn't hate our enemies in themselves, but we should, in a sense, hate what it is that makes them our enemies. And this is a holy hatred, right? We could think of it in that way, because it goes hand in hand with love for our neighbor, just as Aquinas is saying. Here's a quote from Pope Francis in Evangelii Gaudium. Let's see, verse 101. He says this, at least let us say to the Lord, Lord, I am angry with this person, with that person. I pray to you for him and for her. And he says, to pray for a person with whom I am irritated is a beautiful

Starting point is 00:31:38 step forward in love and an act of evangelization. Let's do it today. Let's not allow ourselves to be robbed of the ideal of fraternal love. Fraternal love, huh? Fraternal correction. This is something Aquinas talks about a great deal as well. St. Augustine says, let love of the sinner be united to hatred for his sin. So, fraternal correction is an act of charity and mercy. We are hating the sin that's causing the sort of spiritual setback in his life, like the setback to where he ought to be. We're correcting that. We want that to be removed. We hate that with a quote-unquote perfect hatred. So there you go. That was a whole episode on hatred. So I hope that was a help. And you know what I'm going to do? I would like to close by sharing, since this has been essentially beers with Dostoevsky and Aquinas, I thought what would

Starting point is 00:32:42 be really cool is if I share with you a bit of audio from that book, Notes from Underground, just to give you a taste, because my secret goal is to make all of you love Thomas Aquinas and Dostoevsky in that order. I don't want you necessarily to love Dostoevsky first, but I am just a massive Dostoevsky fan. Some of you aren't. And so hopefully this little excerpt as we end today's episode will make you want to go pick up and read Dostoevsky. Big thanks to all of you who support me on Patreon. If you want to support me and you don't yet, please go to patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. There you can give me five bucks a month, 10 bucks a month or more. And when you do, I'll give you free stuff in return. So you get access

Starting point is 00:33:22 to an ever-growing audio library of content. We record professionally audio books directly from St. Thomas Aquinas, also papal encyclicals that you might not read, but you'll be able to listen to. I'll also send you signed copies of my books, a beautiful pint of Aquinas beer stein. Some of you will get access to a private video small group chat with me and other supporters. If you enjoy the work that I'm doing, if you want to see it flourish, I need you to go support me. Patreon.com slash Matt Fradd. Thanks so much. Also, if you love the show, leave us a review on iTunes. We really appreciate it. God bless and have a great Lent.

Starting point is 00:34:11 I want to share with you an excerpt from chapter seven of Notes from Underground. This is from the second half, Apropos of the Wet Snow. Man from Underground is with a harlot. They've just had sex and it's this dingy, gross brothel. And as he lays there, he begins to share with her, which is unusual for this man who believes that everybody's sort of mocking him. He kind of hates everybody. And so the idea that he would bear any part of his soul to anybody is just not going to happen, but he does it here. He kind of takes the chance even without meaning to. And after he does, gets the sense that Lisa, that's the name of the prostitute,

Starting point is 00:34:51 begins to laugh at her, laugh at him. And when he senses that she laughs at him, mocks him, he rears up and absolutely eviscerates her with his words. And he begins by saying, you know, like, you think you're good? Do you know, you think you're young? You think your youth won't flee? I'm telling you, it will. And your fate is a despicable fate. You're going to get old. No one will love you. They'll kick you out of this brothel. You'll have to find a new one. People will beat you. And why shouldn't they? That kind of language, right? And he's talking here. Let me just, I'll pick up here where he says, well, maybe you'll get older and you'll start to get sick. You know, you'll get consumption. Okay. He says, consumption is that sort of illness. It's not a fever. A person goes on hoping to the last moment saying as well,

Starting point is 00:35:41 it's just self-indulgence, but there's profit in it for the madame. Don't worry, it's true you've sold your soul, you owe money besides, so you don't dare make a peep, and when you're dying, they'll all abandon you. They'll all turn away from you, because what good are you then? They'll even reproach you for uselessly taking up space and not dying quickly enough. You'll have a hard time getting a drink of water. They'll give it to you with a curse. Hurry up and croak, you slut. You're moaning.

Starting point is 00:36:16 People can't sleep. The clients are disgusted. It's true. I myself have overheard such words. They'll shove you on the point of croaking into the stinkiest corner of the basement, dark, damp. What will you go over in your mind then, lying there alone? You'll die. They'll lay you out hurriedly, strangers' hands, grumblingly, impatiently,

Starting point is 00:36:42 and no one will bless you. No one will sigh over you all they'll think is how to get you off their backs quickly they'll put you in a pine box take you out as they did that poor girl today and go to a pot house to commemorate you there's slush muck wet snow in the grave they won't go to any trouble over you. Lower in. Look at this miserable lot going legs up even here, the so-and-so. Shorten the ropes, you rascal. I'll do as it is.

Starting point is 00:37:15 What'll do? She's lying on her side. You got a human being here, don't you? Well, that'll do. Fit it in. They won't even want to argue long because of you. They'll cover you up quickly with wet blue clay and go to the pothouse. That's the end of your memory on earth. Other people's graves are visited by children, fathers, husbands, but at yours,

Starting point is 00:37:38 not a tear, not a sigh, not a prayer, and no one, no one in the whole world will ever come to you your name will disappear from the face of the earth as if you'd never existed as if you'd never been born mud and swamp go ahead knock on your coffin lid at night when dead men rise let me out good people to live in the world i lived but saw nothing of life My life was used up like an old rag. It got drunk up in a pothouse on the haymarket. Let me out, good people, to live in the world one more time. I waxed pathetic, so much so that I myself was about to have a spasm in my throat when suddenly I stopped, raised myself in alarm and, inclining my head fearfully with pounding heart, began to listen. I indeed had reason to be troubled for a long time already. I

Starting point is 00:38:32 had sensed that I had turned her whole soul over and broken her heart, and the more convinced of it I was, the more I wished to reach my goal, quickly and forcefully as possible. It was the game, the game that fascinated me, not just the game, however. All right. So that is just a little bit from that chapter where he just completely humiliates and breaks this poor prostitute, Lisa. What happens next is utterly despicable. I'm not going to give it all away to you in case you want to read it, but essentially he invites her to come to his house, essentially pretends he'll be the savior figure to her, and then something happens, which I won't get into. But if you're looking for, I find that the best translations of these Russian novels are from Pavia and Volokonsky. Let's see you say it.

Starting point is 00:39:23 So Richard Pavia and Larissa Volhonsky. Let's see you say it. So Richard Pavia and Larissa Volokhonsky. Those are the best translations that I've found when it comes to the brothers, Crime and Punishment, Anna Karenina that I'm reading. So anyway, that's a bit from Notes from Underground. So anyway, hatred, spite, as Aquinas says, hatred isn't a capital sin. When it comes to hatred, envy is that capital sin. So when's the last time you and I repented of envy, even the beginnings of it? Because envy is what led this man to become like this, I think. You know, and envy is what can turn you and I into monsters and hateful people. So best not wait until envy is full grown, but pluck it up in your soul and send it to the foot of the cross.

Starting point is 00:40:08 Hope today has been an interesting and helpful episode. It's certainly been a different kind of one. God bless you. I hope you have a wonderful day. Thanks for listening. feeding myself to you who's gonna survive who's gonna survive

Pints With Aquinas - 153: Is it possible to hate God?

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