Pints With Aquinas - 159: How to prepare for Holy Mass W/ Fr. Ryan Mann

Episode Date: May 21, 2019

Thanks for listening! Please support me (Thank you!) on Patreon here or directly here. Here's a slightly different translation of Aquinas' prayer before Mass: Almighty and everlasting God, behold I come to the Sacrament of Thine only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: I come as one infirm to the physician of life, as one unclean to the fountain of mercy, as one blind to the light of everlasting brightness, as one poor and needy to the Lord of heaven and earth. Therefore I implore the abundance of Thy measureless bounty that Thou wouldst vouchsafe to heal my infirmity, wash my uncleanness, enlighten my blindness, enrich my poverty and clothe my nakedness, that I may receive the Bread of Angels, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, with such reverence and humility, with such sorrow and devotion, with such purity and faith, with such purpose and intention as may be profitable to my soul's salvation. Grant unto me, I pray, the grace of receiving not only the Sacrament of our Lord's Body and Blood, but also the grace and power of the Sacrament. O most gracious God, grant me so to receive the Body of Thine only-begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, which He took from the Virgin Mary, as to merit to be incorporated into His mystical Body, and to be numbered amongst His members. O most loving Father, give me grace to behold forever Thy beloved Son with His face at last unveiled, whom I now purpose to receive under the sacramental veil here below. Amen. SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS  Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

Hello and welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd and today we're joined around the bar table by Father... No, we didn't just cut out. I just wanted to have a long pause for no reason to see if you were gonna, you know, be kept on the edge of your seat again. That's gonna be getting annoying. I'll stop that. Today we're joined around the bar table by Father Ryan Mann to discuss Aquinas' prayer before Mass. Aquinas wrote a beautiful prayer that he would pray before Mass and one for after Mass. Today we're going to look at the prayer before Mass and I think you're going to find it very spiritually enriching.

All right, all right, all right. Hello there, you little rascals. How's it going? I'm currently in Australia, speaking around the country, and am having a bloody great time. Just thought I'd fill you in on that. I hope y'all are doing well. Today's episode is really spiritually enriching. We had Father Iron Man recently on to discuss another prayer of Thomas Aquinas' and it was just amazing. I've got so much great feedback from that and we talk about that in today's show. I want to thank everybody who over the last few, has been reviewing us on iTunes. I'm trying to ramp that up so that, you know, well, I just want people to review it.

Because then more people see it and more people get exposed to Thomas Aquinas. And, you know, ergo, more people are being exposed to Christ. So if you want to help me, go to iTunes and review this podcast right now. It would mean a ton. I see all the reviews that come in here right now. Right now, I'm going to have a look. Let's see. Frad. Okay, right now we've got 2,530. Yeah, good. So let's read the last review that just came in. Oh, here comes one. Jay Salcido says, if you are interested in the truth and sick of the

society you live in, sums me up to a T, this podcast will make you feel a little less alone. Thank God for St. Thomas Aquinas and thank God for Matt Fradd. Oh, that's really nice. And then the one before that says, for years, I've been thinking about reading some of Aquinas' work, but it always seems so daunting that I never got around to it. This is an excellent introduction, and it's explained in a way that a non-theologian can understand. I started with the 2016 episodes. Wow, I've been doing it for that long. So that my foundation of understanding could be built in a step-by-step manner.

That's very nice. So there'sstep manner. That's very nice. So there's lots of these that are very nice. I'm not sure if you got to see my video with catching foxes. So if you haven't subscribed to my YouTube channel, you should go do that right now. I did a three-hour discussion with the guys from Catching Foxes, and that's when we looked at our hate mail. So if you want to see what the one-star reviews say

about Pints with Aquinas and Catching Foxes, we've actually done a whole segment on that on my YouTube channel. So go check that out. They're really fun. But in all honesty, thank you to all of you who have reviewed the show and please consider doing it like right now. If you haven't already, it means a lot to me and I'll try and read some more reviews in an upcoming episode. Okay, good. Here's the show. Hey, Father Ryan, man. How's it going? Hey, good to talk to you, Matt Fradd. It's going real well. In America, you say, how you doing? But in Australia, you say, how you going?

Really? You guys are weird. I know. Remember Joey from Friends? Not that either of us watched that show, but how you doing in Australia? Yeah, how you doing? Hey, how you doing? Not as attractive. No, but you know, it's getting there. Hey, Alan.

Not as attractive. No, but, you know, it's getting there. Yeah. Anyway, pumped to have you back on the show. Last time you were on, we discussed a prayer from Thomas Aquinas, the, I forget the official title, The Ordering of One's Life or something to that effect. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just got an amazing story about that, by the way. A lot of people loved that episode. I was at Sikh earlier on in the year, and, you know, this young college student came to me and he said he was so moved by that episode that he wrote it out on a piece of paper and now him and his family pray that every night together. Are you serious? Yeah. That's very holy. That's very, that's beautiful. There's something sacred about that story. And I was like, why didn't you just print it? No, I didn't really. Yeah.

Wow. Well, that's amazing though. That's really, you know, uh, I'll tell you a story about, uh, the same thing, actually that episode. And we recorded another one on the passions with Thomas Aquinas about a year ago, I think. Yeah. And, uh, I was hearing confessions at a random place, not at my own parish. And someone came up to me and they said, are you Father Ryan Mann?

I said, yes. And they said, are you the one who does those Pints with Aquinas episodes? And I said, I've done at that point one. I'm like, yes, I've done one. And they said, that one on the, I'm sorry, there are two of them. They said, that one on the ordering of the soul and the passions, they said, has helped me so much, like heal from social anxieties. And they said, and come to just like trust that like my daily life is a part of God's plan. They said, I just found so much more peace and freedom.

And it was really just very moving to see that, you know, you do these podcasts and you don't know what, how people listen to it. It's just fun food for thought, which isn't good in itself. But then you hear someone's life that the Holy Spirit takes what we're doing and really just like shoots an arrow in their heart and they're like, ah, this is what I've needed. Like, it's just a beautiful thing. So. Yeah. Do you find that as a preacher, as an evangelist, that you have to continually remind yourself that just because, you know, a way of phrasing an element of the gospel is old hat to you, it might blow the socks off of someone who isn't there yet? Yeah, I'll tell you the phrase that does it, which is, God loves you. That phrase, like,

okay, I've heard it for my whole life, and especially it became more meaningful the more deeply I was, like, entering into the spiritual life. But when I preach on it or I give a concrete example of someone who, let's say they were struggling with sin and they came to discover that they were loved in spite of their sin, like right where they're at, people's hearts just melt, their eyes well up. And it can be such a bumper sticker thing that we say. But to be honest, that like that's it for the gospel of john or for saint john's letters to sum up the whole thing god is love like uh so like a

little phrase like that like i've said it so many times and things like that but it we always need to be reminded of it it's kind of like that uh just that notion that like good things bear repeating and uh you know when i get off spiritually as a priest or things like that, I always have to come back to, like, love and he loves me and I can't earn this. And, you know, the basic themes are always what it seems to be like. Do you ever find, because I do, do you ever find that you sometimes fall into the trap of trying to be increasingly clever so that you're impressing yourself? Because, you know, I've heard all this stuff before, so if I say it this way, that sounds cool.

Yeah, no, I think, yeah, I don't speak as much as you do in the sense of like asking to give talks and things. So my homilies and stuff are obviously the main venue I speak as a parish priest, but I have noticed that exactly. And in fact, just recently, I had the thought and I haven't really looked into it. It was just, I wonder if part of it isn't just when I was first giving my talks, everything was new as you're saying. So like there was an emotional fervor to it. This is amazing to me.

And then as I kept going on, I want the amazingness still. But the truth is, like once you're married for a while, the amazingness of your spouse is quieted. There's a deeper beauty. But the surprise element of marriage, like, oh, no, she always does this or I always do it. Like so as the relationship deepens, there's greater intimacy. But the fireworks aren't as there. But if you're mature in love, you realize it's even more beautiful. So I'm thinking as I go deeper into the Lord and I just grow in my own vocation, yeah, just remembering that, all right, the fervor isn't the goal.

It's just like Jesus says, I say only what I hear the Father saying. I say only what I hear the father saying. So like trying to say, well, if the father is just telling me to look at a group of people and say, like, you're good, you're loved, like just deep breaths. You don't have to grasp. If that's what he just wants me to say, like over and over again, then that would be great. Yeah, I was giving a talk in Louisiana recently to this old girl school. And usually I crush it at old girl schools because I have an accent and that kind of gives me an immediate in. And you kind of got the blonde tipped hair, like girls really love that. Not really. I used to have the blonde tipped hair. Is it gray now? I haven't seen you

in a while. It's kind of just receding and dulling, but that's okay. I'm okay with who I am and how I am becoming. But I was in prayer in the chapel and I had to say to myself, okay, this is not a comedian. Like, this is not a standup routine. Like, I had to tell me this. I'm like, this is not a way for you to feel better about yourself because you've got like a thousand girls who are all laughing and clapping at you. Yeah. Cause when I was, I was in high school, no girls ever talked to me. So, it's like, it's a nice change. But like, no, this is about proclaiming the gospel. And of course, that, you know, you want to use rhetoric, you want to use comedy where appropriate, but it can be tempting for any speaker to make it about him even without

realizing it, rather than to recognize first and foremost, like, I am here to proclaim the gospel. Whether they like me, whether they don't like me, that's not necessarily something I can control. But I just want to kind of try to communicate this thing as best as I'm able and pray that the Lord will bless it. Yeah, I think that's fine. I think that's good for whatever occasion. So, speaker, absolutely. But even if, like, the other dictates the way we love, right? So like if the other isn't helping us show how to love, then it's kind of like self-absorption. It's kind of

indirect things. So like when St. Paul says, preach the truth in love, I think what he means is not just the motivation to bless them, but to take their personhood, their situation into account. So, you know, if you and I are having a beer or something like that, since it's Pints with Aquinas, if you and I are having a beer and you're telling me something you're struggling with, I'm going to speak differently to you than I would, let's say, a female friend who's struggling with something, right? Because the other kind of dictates the way I'm going to make my gift of self. In a similar way, I think like there can be the planning

for giving a talk especially is so isolating in that you're looking at quotes, you're brainstorming, you're praying. It can be so much about like I'm in control and in the center of this thing that then when you get in front of people, you're like, oh, hi, how are you? Like that's happened to me at preaching on Sundays. I'll prepare a homily. And I forget, I have like the 7.30 a.m. mass. And I have all these like cultural references. And I get out in front of people. I'm like, oh, this isn't a youth mass. Everyone here is a grandma. And all of a sudden I realized I just prepared my homily with like a make-believe quote-unquote bride. Right? Like here, my bride is not that right now. And so I have to like, okay, same truth, same story. Jesus died and rose.

God loves us. He's a father. The Holy Spirit's alive. But this group, I have to adjust it for them. And that's how it's loving, is my sacrifice of ideas to really bless this person where they're at. And it's not easy. It's not easy at all.

It's a lot of self-denial. Pete What you just said reminded me of that principle in philosophy, whatever is received is received according to the mode of the receiver. Pete Ah, yeah. Pete This is why Aquinas says somewhere in the that it's appropriate that God use symbols and signs and very earthly signs even when communicating with us. Because like, yeah, God can do anything doable, but if he's going to communicate with me, he needs to take me into

account. Oh, exactly. And I know you sure have had that happen too, where the early presentations of the faith to you, you're like, this is not, they do, I don't, this means nothing to me. I remember I used to, I fifth grade, my mom tells me a story. I marched into a room. I said, I'm done going to PSR or CCDS. I'm done going. She's like, you got to keep going. And I'm like, if you think drawing pictures and coloring is going to make me love Jesus, you're wrong, mom. I stormed out. And she sat there and she said, she realized she was, I was right. She knew me. She knew that was never going to work for me. And she's like, well, fine. You don't have to go anymore. And so, like, she probably should have accompanied me in some other way. But, you know, but nonetheless, she knew. She knew her son,

and she knew that this way of communicating was not going to work. Yeah, I mean, that is just a really interesting point there, though, what Aquinas says about having to, it's good and appropriate that he use, make use of signs in order to communicate with us. Because I think sometimes it's an obstacle to people. I think it was an obstacle to Augustine. You know more about Augustine than me, right? When he picked up the scriptures, it just seemed overly simplistic and not like Gnostic musics, you know? Yeah, no, in fact, that was one of the reasons why he said this faith is dumb. He's like, these are child stories. And if you think about it, I mean, that was one of the reasons why he said this faith is dumb. He's like, these are child stories.

Yeah. And if you think about it, I mean, think about reading Aristotle's metaphysics. And then next to that, a sower went out to sow some seed. Yeah, or he's like, and then these little sheep, one went missing. And he's like, you got to be kidding me. What is this? This is the way to the infinite. This is the way to this mystery known as God.

No way. Wow. You know, it's funny. I mean, we see the prime example of this, right? Whatever is received is received according to the mode of the receiver in the incarnation. So, it's like the absolute and undefinable and mysterious God becomes understandable, in a sense, in that we can grasp His human nature. But yeah, it is interesting. So, for those of us who would pick up the New Testament and be a little kind of off-put

by its seemingly simplistic language, but to point that out, like, there's actually infinite depths there because this wisdom, which seems on its surface shallow, came from an infinite God. And that's why you can have all the saints musing on these parables for their entire life, you know? Well, and I think that's like the quasi-sacramental notion of the Scripture is that the infinite is cloaking himself in these finite human words. And it's a powerful challenge because one of the things that we can worship is our own minds you know there's uh you know the typical four is wealth pleasure power honor but a uh famous dominican surveys pen cares who writes on the moral life says the fifth one could be knowledge where else can i find my happiness can i find it in my own knowledge well no um no. That's another God we could worship is like what

I know and how I know it and how it has to be communicated. But I think our own experience tells us this. You can find the person who can quote everything at you, or then you can find the person who just sincerely looks at you and just says, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry you're going through that. And boy, the psychological person could dissect it and tell you why it hurts and what's going on. But the someone who just sincerely their heart is turned towards you and says, I'm so sorry. And I'm here for you, man, that is healing. That is transformative. That is powerful. And yet it's just, it's not as quote unquote, brilliant.

That's what God did. That's what God the Father did. He sat in our mess and said, I'm sorry. This must be hard for you. You know, like he... Exactly. I'm with you, right? I'm here.

I'm with you. And these are powerful, powerful things. But I think sometimes people go to Scripture looking for a list of mystical aphorisms. Exactly, right? And even this is what atheists mock about the Bible, that they expect it almost, you know, anyway. Yeah, powerful stuff, man. Really, really good stuff.

Today, we want to look at Aquinas' prayer before Mass, right? Exactly, just opening my Roman Missal. Yes, right here. Yeah. Before we read it, do you want to say some words about it and where we want to go in this podcast? Yeah. Most people don't really look at the Roman Missal because it's usually the priest book, right?

But there's these beautiful prayers at the end of the Roman Missal that are entitled Preparation for Mass. And then a few pages later, you can imagine it says Thanksgiving after Mass, and some are by saints, some are just part of the tradition. There's a beautiful one by St. Ambrose, and obviously when we talk about Aquinas, but they're just, they're all there to be said, and it's kind of the church's way of like letting people know that there are prayers to like lead you into this and to help you exit out of this mystery, if you will. Not that we fully exit out of God, but these times, it's a segue time. These are transitional prayers that help us. And again, it's a very different tone, isn't it? Thomas Aquinas'

prayers and hymns and poetry is very different to what he's doing in his Summa. Again, this gets back to the point that we're making. He's trying's trying to reach it he's doing this for a different reason exactly and i think that that's a beautiful thing to say is that like you can get really big into aquinas and all of a sudden you use words like being in essence and uh you know existence and substance substantial and they're important and good but if you're talking to your grandma at you know at thanks Thanksgiving dinner or something like that, and she talks about adoration, you don't go into, you know, transubstantiation stuff. You're meeting her where she's at, and that's part of what charity demands.

Yeah, there's actually a significant difference, like, you know, between Aquinas' sermons, like between Aquinas' sermons, there's a collection of his sermons to the laity, and they're very beautiful and they're very simple. But then he even has things called the academic sermons, which are very, they're not very popular at all. I've just been going through them, and they're actually very hard to find.

But they are extraordinarily difficult and nitpicky, you know? Mary is like light in seven ways. One! Sure. But, yeah, anyway, cool. All right, so what do you want to do here in this episode? Do we want to read through this and go through this prayer? Do we want to talk about the importance of preparing ourselves for Mass, all of the above?

Yeah, let's do all of that. Let's maybe have the whole thing read. Let's maybe talk about preparing ourselves for Mass, all of the above? Yeah, let's do all of that. Let's maybe have the whole thing read. Let's maybe talk about preparing ourselves for Mass, then let's read the whole prayer once, so they kind of have the whole thing, and then we'll just highlight some things we like. Great. Does that sound good? Yeah.

Okay. So, do you want to start, or me, or...? So, we're talking about preparing for Mass before we're reading this? Does that make sense? Yeah, that's what you said, right? Yeah, it kind of goes within the context, yeah. Yeah. No, it's good.

I mean, I'm just trying to think from my own experience, you know, like when I go to – I just love – I go to, for those who aren't aware, even though I say it every week at Byzantine Church, so I go to the divine liturgy and write, you know, it's, it's glorious. And there are times where like Saturday night, I cannot wait to go. That's actually the majority of, I never dread it. I just love it because it's like, it resets the universe for me in a way. It's like when I'm in divine liturgy, everything in the world is right, you know? Um, and i have four kids and so it can be difficult and it can be difficult not to get frustrated with them um i'm a lot better now than i used to be i used to be really bad in the beginning when i had kids yeah i just felt like they should all behave very well and i was embarrassed that i couldn't make my kids behave and i'm saying this really for the sake of the young parents out there listening.

I wish somebody could have told me, like, just to chill out. And I don't think I would have heard them if they said that. Yeah. There's an analogy with young priests as well, though. Like, our analogy is that, like, people look bored. They don't seem attentive. You know, family are restless. People are, like, you know, chewing gum in the corner.

And, like, I mean, you know, chewing gum in the corner and like, I mean, you know, okay, sure. Objectively, these are all bad things, but like, as you get older as a priest, you've seen enough and you realize, okay, yeah, they could always grow and do better. But the fact is these are the good ones. These are ones who are faithful. They're here. And so, yeah, okay. Maybe they're chewing gum. Well, maybe they just totally, they didn't sleep all night because they had kids and they didn't have a chance to brush their teeth and they popped in gum. And by the time they came in church, they weren't even conscious of it because they were so tired. Nothing malicious. And so these are things just to recognize, even in both vocations, there's a growth in wisdom and kindness and perspective to say, all right, we're not in the kingdom yet, and we're getting there. And so, yeah, there may be a few things I need to say or be attentive to, but, you know, God's not looking at me and saying, are you totally satisfied in

everything put together in your life in this moment? You know? One of the things I love about the Divine Liturgy is like 98% of it is chanted. Yeah. I imagine people probably feel like this with the Extraordinary Form as well. It's like, when I go in, it's almost like getting on it like i don't know i was gonna say like a roller coaster but that's way too intense more like one of those chiseled out logs that gently goes down a river it's almost like i'm being taken somewhere and the chanting just starts happening and it's not disjointed it's this one beautiful experience um that I'm drawn up into, as opposed to, for me at least, when I now go back to

a Novus Ordo, I feel like I'm intentionally putting myself into this thing and now this thing, and Lord, hear us, you know, and here's the next thing. And that might just be where I'm at. Well, I do think there's something, I mean, there's no doubt about that. There's something particularly, I've gone to several divine liturgies in the Byzantine right now, you know, and I've just seen the beauty of it. The mystery is very accented. And yeah, I think, I don't know where I read this. I think it was a Pew study, but it said the number one reason people are leaving the Catholic Church is a lack of transcendence.

Has nothing to do with their teachings or, you know. They haven't done a new study yet due to the recent scandals, but that could be a big one now. But before that, it was the lack of transcendence. And that was really telling to me that people are coming to the Mass and they're not experiencing God, the mystery, the other, the transcendence. And so when I read the Roman Missal, and I don't think I'm a great presider and liturgist. No one's going to write a book about how great I am at it or caught up into the heavens, I'll tell you that much. But nonetheless, I do really believe when I look at the Roman Missal, I don't know how many people actually are implementing and praying the Novus Ordo in the image of the Roman Missal. Between the music and the chanting and the silence and everything that's supposed to be a part of the liturgy. Why is that?

I mean, because you look at the divine liturgy and the extraordinary from them, they're so intricate. They seem a lot more difficult to get right. So why is it, do you think, that a lot of priests or some priests tend to find it hard to do what's in the Roman Missal? Well, I think part of it is just generationally. You know, I know priests who are, these are faithful good priests, you know, ordained in the late 60s and early 70s, and faithful in the sense of you're not going to see them on the evening news for immoral issues. And they've been present to their people and the dyings and the baptisms, that type of faithful. But, you know, at that time, everything was up for grabs. You had the cultural sexual revolution happening in the 60s, so that was being overturned.

Vietnam, JFK, I mean, just culturally, things were just so unrest. There's such a cultural unrest. And then Vatican II happens, and no one really understood it yet by the time it started being implemented. And all of a sudden, they're told, it's in English, and you face the people now. time was starting to be implemented, and all of a sudden they're told, it's in English, and you face the people now. And it was just such a stark difference, and there was so much change. My impression is some of the priests in that generation, they're just like, you know what? No one knows what this is. I'm just going to take care of my people, and I'm just going to pray the liturgy and just move along. And so you get a real minimalist approach, not out of spite, but out of just like, listen, it's chaos right now.

It's so easy to look back, right? Hindsight is 20-20. Like, even today in the church where all of this confusion surrounds bishops and the pope and the priest, and people are kind of doing their best and maybe fragmenting into different groups over here or there. We're not really sure what's happening. Maybe in 50 years from now, Catholics look back on us and say, well, why didn't they blah, blah, blah, blah? For sure. We never want to really believe we're historically conditioned because we want to really believe we can somehow transcend it because we know the truth. But we are. You're

always where you are. I want to know why we went so... This is kind of getting us off topic, but I don't care. I want to have this conversation. And I think people will find it interesting. Hey, it's your podcast. Good for you, buddy. Exactly. You always wonder, like, how do I know I'm not on one of the sides of the pendulum swing? Because none of us ever think that, right? like right no one in the 70s building the ugliest building known to man known as a church with right you know yellow walls and crappy communist concrete art thought i'm on the edge of a pendulum they probably thought now we're doing it the way

things ought to like things have really come together and this is it you know right and so i often sometimes think in humility or how do i know i'm not doing that when i criticize like modern art well but see and i'm so convinced of it i'm like because modern art is crap that is why it isn't it is not objectively beautiful um and nobody in the world is flying to these ugly churches and as tourists but they are to the beautiful churches. But so, I'm like, what was the cause of throwing out the beauty? There had to be some reason. It's not like people woke up one day and went, everything is beautiful. We can't have that. Right. No, yeah. I've heard a couple people say different things. And I mean, I'm only 36. We're

about the same age. So, like, we didn't live through much of it. We were born in the tail end of the crazy, but we didn't really, you know, we weren't, you know, sort of like conscious beings in the 70s and 80s. But yeah, I think I really think if you go back to there was a lack of knowledge of the faith even before Vatican II. So people want to claim that somehow like everything was all these lay people and everyone was so well informed and the priest even understood everything. And it just wasn't the case. It was a lot of just rote memorization and you did it because we're Catholic. And so

there was no like understanding of even the liturgy. You went and prayed a rosary. Now, that's not a bad thing, but if you ask the average lay person, what is it and what's happening? Now, that's not a bad thing, but if you ask the average layperson what is it and what's happening, they couldn't have answered. I don't know that they could answer now as well. So when change happened, I don't think there was a lot of insight into what was actually going on to begin with to help guide the change, at least on a bottom-up type of approach. As far as the top-down, I have no idea. The only thing I can think of is that the meaninglessness, kind of the spirit of the day was this meaninglessness, that the spiritual world was somehow other and the physical world was something different. And so you could play with and tinker the physical world and it really wouldn't affect much. You see that in the kind of the weird images in the 80s of stuff of like, Jesus wasn't, you know, kind of the ancient heresies, Jesus really wasn't his body, or he's just one image

of the universal God, and there's so many others. I mean, a real kind of a pluralism, and I think it just filters down into architecture and liturgy. I mean, if the liturgy is the expression and celebration of our faith, and that's getting tinkered with, then you got to ask, like, do they know what the faith is of the Word becoming flesh, dwelling among us, suffering, dying, rising, to bring us into the eternal glory? Do we see that as the heart of everything? I just think there was a lot of confusion about what do we do? What is it? You know, everything's up for grabs.

And there's that famous story of Henri de Lubac going into the Vatican II Council. And someone said like, well, what are we ever going to believe anymore? Like everything's up for grabs. And he goes, well, the creed. And he started saying the creed to the person, I guess, walked away. You never know how true these stories are, but they're great stories. But you know, there was a sense of here's a fellow theologian bishop saying everything's up for grabs. And here's another theologian saying, no, we do have an identity. We have a creed.

And we need to start with, you know, what has been given by God as non-negotiables, if you will. And then we can reason out from there. It makes sense if we grew tired of this vertical relationship with God, like if it was meaningless to us in some ways, and it seemed abstract and unimportant. If that was the case to some degree, and obviously we're generalizing for the sake of brevity and our lack of knowledge in this area. Amen to both. Yeah, that you would go from vertical to horizontal. Because I get that. Like I get how to love my brothers and sisters and and that we're all one, and let's all come together.

And, you know, I went to some of these churches in Ireland where I used to live. And from the outside, there were these glorious, gothic-looking churches. You would go inside, and they were disgusting. I mean, these purple posters, finger paintings stuck up on the walls, and the confessionals have been taken down and it's all carpeted and, you know, it's just, yeah, gross. Yeah. No, it is. Everything became almost like a living room.

It was all about, you know, this neutralizing, this destruction of the vertical. And what we see is, like I just quoted a little bit ago, is people leaving the church because they're not experiencing the transcendent. Exactly. And so what's interesting is, I mean, this is kind of off topic, but the great challenge I find as a parish, but also in all of us making efforts to evangelize and make disciples of all nations is, how much are we witnessing to and meaningfully providing an encounter with the transcendent?

Or are we just giving a bunch of information and facts to people? That's why I think so many people have enjoyed our podcast on the ordering of our soul by Aquinas, was that that was an intrinsically transcendent podcast in that it was about a prayer and inviting people to join us in this prayer so we could be with Aquinas talking to the one, the transcendent one. Yeah, I feel like a lot of priests, you know, perhaps who lived during that time, who wanted more of the horizontal approach, like we tend to look at them like, oh my gosh, like get with the times. The times are Latin and orthodoxy. Stop it. Like stop your craziness.

Don't tell me to call you John. I'm going to call you Father John, right? So, we look at them at our worst, like traitors in a sense. Maybe not you and me personally, but at its worst, we kind of tend to look at these people as traitors, and some of them might be. And I think at their worst, they might look at us and think the same thing. Because here they think, like, we have worked to kind of eradicate this rote mentality, and here you are asking for bloody incense again. Like, you want to know how to pray the rosary? And when I grew up, my Nana had a rosary. I didn't know how to pray it until I was 17. No one ever taught me it. We didn't have incense at church. It was all very banal. And I don't know if you follow this, I kind of felt like an orphan. Like, I don't know

my heritage. I don't know my history. And so, I did find older, beautiful prayer books attractive. And I did find the ones that were supposedly, you know, created with me in mind, super trite and cheesy. Yeah, it's like that fifth grade story I told you about PSR or CCD. I was like, this isn't going to work for me. Yeah. Yeah, you know, and I do think, which kind of can surprise people, and if anyone's listening to me, just make sure you hear this whole statement I'm about to make before you find my email address and destroy me. But it wasn't uncommon that the priests who caused many scandals that we're finding about now, externally looked like your faithful ones. All right?

It's not uncommon that that was a trend. And so some of this horizontal extremeness, I think, was this idea of trying to be authentic, of like, I don't want to be fake like them. I don't want to have all the externals in place, but interiorly be so far from the Lord that I'm hurting the bride of Christ. Now, of course, the cassock, the rosary, the Latin, the chanting, that isn't what makes someone go off the deep end, okay? But it's also not

intrinsically what keeps someone in line, right? This is one of the studies that John Paul II generation of priests, there's a ton of struggles in that generation as well of either leaving ministry or things like this because correct teaching isn't enough. That's what they're finding is that the correct – getting orthodoxy, it's a non-negotiable. Being Catholic means something. So you have to have orthodoxy. There's a form to being Catholic. It's not just like, well, whatever. No, it means something. I'm not Presbyterian. I'm not Jewish. So it means something. I'm thinking—

No, it's you guys. Do you want me to cut you off? still to go into then playing the game of basketball. Similarly, knowing what it means to be Catholic, all right, that sets you up. Now you can play the game, but you still have to play it well and authentically and learn and do the difficult work of exposing your wounds and pain in the confessional and with a spiritual director and a confessor and to the Lord and growing over time and all these things. So I think some of that was the rebellion against duplicitous priests. Now, that's not across the board. It's not every case, clearly. Yeah. No, it's interesting because I think... Most people want to think that golf shirts and khaki pants John, all right, is, oh,

he's the unfaithful one, but cassock rosary, he's the faithful one. And Jesus warns us of this, right? Well, Marcial Maciel would be a prime example, the founder of the Legionaries of Christ. So, there's a guy who wears the thick Roman collar, who from all external appearances is a very orthodox and traditional man, and yet he was living a duplicitous life. Great example. Yeah, exactly. I like how you put that. Yeah.

Hawaiian shirt, Bob. Yeah, yeah. And obviously, the ideal would probably be neither, right? It's like, could you just wear the cassock and be faithful and not have a mistress? You can. I mean, the majority of priests do. The majority of priests do, are wonderful, you know? But I just, I think sometimes we need to be careful of, oh, he's wearing a Roman collar. He must be really faithful. He's in a golf shirt. He must not be.

Yeah, I agree. I had a great conversation with a priest from a seminary, and he was more of this liberal bent, you know, call me John, that guy. And he was telling me how fearful he was of these new seminarians coming in who were all wanting to wear the frills and learn the Latin. And I was trying to explain to him what I just said before about us feeling like orphans and the beauty of the church, and he was trying to educate me about, you know, the dangers he's seen. So it was really neat for us to hear each other. Sure. Yeah.

I think those are the type of conversations that are healthy, not just for the church, but then for the wider community. You know, I think that that's good that they see a church which is open to listening and dialoguing. And I think Pope Francis at his best is trying to say the same thing, actually, which I think is really important. I think we always need the truth. We always need church teaching to guide us, but there's still human beings journeying and trying to dialogue and figure it all out. So, that's good. Well, let's look at this prayer then. Maybe I'll read the first half and you can read the second half. Would that be okay? Why don't you read the whole

thing? Okay. Because you have such a great voice. Well, I have a professional mic as well. Here we go. Almighty eternal God, behold, I come to the sacrament of your only begotten son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as one sick to the physician of life, as one unclean to the fountain of mercy, as one blind to the light of eternal brightness, as one poor and needy to the Lord of heaven and earth. I ask, therefore, for the abundance of your immense generosity, that you may graciously cure my sickness, wash away my defilement, give light to my blindness, enrich my poverty, clothe my nakedness, so that I may receive the bread of angels, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

with such reverence and humility, such contrition and devotion, such purity and faith, such purpose and intention, as are conducive to the salvation of my soul. Grant, I pray, that I may receive not only the sacrament of the Lord's body and blood, but also the reality and power of that sacrament. O most gentle God, grant that I may so receive the body of your only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, which he took from the Virgin Mary, that I may be made worthy to be incorporated into his mystical body and to be counted among its members. O most loving Father, grant that I may at last gaze forever upon the unveiled face of your beloved Son, whom I, a wayfarer, propose to receive now Amen.

Yeah, it's good stuff. It's really good stuff. I just love him so much. You should have a podcast about him. I should. Yes. You know, the first thing I just want to say is like, just this level of preparation for Mass. You know, like this is Thomas Aquinas' prayer before Mass.

And this is just how he wants to orient our mind, our hearts, our desires, our whole life to the Lord. He's just trying to gather us from a million different directions and recollect us, recollect us around this type of these truths, this insight, this vision. And so we can imagine ourselves just kneeling next to Aquinas, praying this with him, which is pretty amazing that Aquinas himself says he's sick, unclean, blind, and poor. If he's those things, I wonder what I am. Like I'm emaciated and really – I was doing the same thing. I have leprosy. Not only do I not have eyeballs, I don't have half a face.

Yeah, no, this is real bad. So maimed. But it's important just like that. The saints who are closest to God think that they're the biggest sinners because they see how beautiful God is. Yeah, no, this is real bad. So maimed. But it's important just like that. You know, the saints who are closest to God think that they're the biggest sinners because they see how beautiful God is. So yeah, so the prayer begins in addressing God, but then he names where he is and what he's looking to receive from this time, right? I'm sick. I'm going to the physician of life. I'm unclean. I'm going to a fountain of mercy. I'm sick. I'm going to the physician of life. I'm unclean. I'm going to a fountain of

mercy. I'm blind. I'm going to this light of eternal brightness, and I'm poor and needy to the Lord of heaven and earth. And I just think this is a beautiful, just honing in on the dispositions of the heart before God. What do you think, you know, what happens when we don't come with this sort of preparation? Because it's this prayer that puts us in that particular frame of mind and that posture to receive. I think one thing is that you start to begin to believe over time, does this even do anything? Yeah. Meaning, does receiving the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist, does it do anything? And this is a good question. This is what kept someone

I know from joining the Catholic Church for a while. They said, I'm a Protestant. I don't see the Catholics being any holier than us, and yet you claim to be receiving the body and blood of Jesus. So, like, why would I join? I mean, it's a very good critique, and I think it's very fair. It's a just question to us, a good challenge. But one of the reasons this happens is, if we don't come in our poverty, he can't fill us. If we come with some level of, I'm basically okay, he can't save us. But this is different than self-hatred, right? That's the other extreme. Self-hatred would say, I'm so bad, save this wretched existence of mine. Well, no, no, no, wait. I'm created, I'm loved, I'm wanted, but I'm sick. I'm unclean. I'm blind. I'm poor. These are much more beautiful

words, and they're biblical words, to gather at where I'm at. I'm a son of God who's gone sick, and I need a doctor. You know, I'm a little baby who got into mud, and I'm covered in sickness, and I'm starting to cry. I need a fountain to wash me, and it's a fountain of mercy. I can't see. I'm bumping into things. I don't understand things correctly in my life. Things are a mess. I don't know where you are, where I am, what it all means. I need the light. And I'm poor. I'm starving. I have nothing to my own. I need help. But it takes the sense of like, I'm a son or daughter suffering these things. And I'm coming to you to speak and give yourself to them. It creates a great posture of receptivity, of openness, of allowing God to minister to me, rather than

thinking, I'm basically okay, and I'm just going to tell God what I'm going to work on this week. Yeah, that's spot on. It's our unwillingness or incapacity to see our own poverty that makes us think we don't need whatever someone else has given. We even kind of, we spurn it, like it's almost insulting that you would offer me food. Like I'm some sort of beggar. Yeah. And then like, if you're not sick, going to see if like, like right now I'm doing pretty good. If my wife put me into the car and drove me to see like a cancer specialist or something, I'd be like, this is a gigantic waste of time. Exactly.

I could be doing a podcast with Father Ryan Mann. I could be like doing literally anything and it would make more sense than this. And I think that is what people think. This is what I've thought when I've been to mass. Like if I'm not clean, why are you telling me, here we go, time for a bath? If I'm not poor, why are you offering me food stamps or bread or something like that? It's just, it almost feels a little, yeah, as I say, it feels patronizing if someone's offering you a handout. You're like, no, don't you understand? It reminds me of that verse from Revelation. You say that you are, what does it say? You say that you're rich, but you're poor. Let me find

that. Anyway, but- I know what you mean. Yeah. I mean, this is like a Father Ryan man theology, but I'll preach this sometimes at mass is that the Lord has a banquet for us, but he's presupposing we're hungry. But most of us come full of Skittles and Kit Kats. That's good. So that like our hunger, we may not be in touch with our starving because we've gouged ourselves on junk food. We've numbed ourselves with Netflix. I like podcasts, but we've listened to 50 million podcasts, so we're so distracted interiorly that we don't have any awareness. Maybe we've even gone to greater sins to numb and stop our hunger. So by the time we get to the mass, this banquet that the Lord is giving us to really be nourished, we're like, no, I'm basically okay. Maybe I'll do a pick a little

bit at the appetizer, but I'm okay. And you're full of Kit Kats and Skittles, and you're not really, there's a filet mignon being offered in Lobster Tail, and you're missing out. And so the first prayer is an acknowledgement of where I'm at. So I don't pretend. Pretending is the worst thing in the spiritual life. It delays all sorts of graces and healing. There's no pretending here because there's only love and love can be seen. So that's brilliant. So as you're being loved, you can come out. You can say, look, I'm sick. I need help.

Because it's like when you're little kids. When they're picked up, sometimes that's when they start crying. Because now they're safe and loved and all of the pain can come out. I love that. Yeah, there's no pretending in the spiritual life. You pretend when you want to. Well, why do we pretend? Because we want someone to think better of us than they do.

Because we think if they knew the truth, they would be disappointed or angry. I love how you put that. Yeah, the pretending really regresses us in the spiritual life, as you say, because there's only love here. Gosh, that's wonderful. And let me get this right. This isn't like an all or nothing. When you're at work and someone says, how are you can, let me get this right. Like, this isn't like an all or nothing. Like when you're at work, you know, and someone says, how you doing? They don't really care.

Okay. So you can, you can just give a neutral answer and it's not lying. It's work. You got to know your settings. Right. And even with your kids, if you're a parent, okay. They don't need to know everything going on in mom and dad's heart. But if you go to the confessional and the priest says, how are you?

And you say, great. You've missed the point. Or even, and even here, even if you go to Mass, which is easy because you're just one among many, I'm just going to go sit in my pew and I'll feel good. My conscience will be abated because I went to Mass. I fulfilled my obligation. Well, okay, you're kind of presuming I'm basically okay, or you're thinking I have a problem that I have to fix, not the Lord. And so that's the Pelagianism is I can fix it. I can basically make myself perfect. And so either you're not in touch with it, or you're in touch with something going on, a relationship or anything in your life that you

think you alone have to fix. And so when you go to Mass, you're not bringing your real life to the Lord. There's a separating or a pretending and hiding. But there's only love here. There's only grace. There's only beauty. He doesn't want to destroy us. He wants to heal us and set us free to be the glorious sons and daughters He baptized us to be. So, that gets back to this verse from Revelation that I forgot a moment ago, just looked up in regards to pretending, right? So, Revelation 3.15, I know your works. You are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable,

poor, blind, naked. And again, when I read this after having heard what you just said, I see it like a mother saying it to her child, like, honey, you're not clean. Like, I'm looking, and she's kind of laughing a little as she's saying it, like, you're wretched, you're blind, you're naked, you know? I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire so that you may be rich and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Yeah. And then it says this, and this is the final verse from 319. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent. So,

that just comes full circle there with what you were saying. There's only love here. So, the reason I'm saying these things, the reason I'm reproving you and disciplining you is because I love you. Yeah. And I don't want to get too far off on this, but I do want to say, if anyone's listening, and you maybe just need to ask the Holy Spirit, But I do want to say, if anyone's listening, and you may just need to ask the Holy Spirit, sometimes there can be an affection for our brokenness and pain. Sometimes we actually like it because we think it can earn us attention and love. That, oh, I like that I'm broken or sick, unclean, blind, and poor, because then I can tell someone and they will give me their attention. They'll care for me. They'll notice me because people generally want to help other people. Basically, they're pretty good. But that's not what makes you lovable. That's not what makes you worthy of attention. It is the fact that you're created by God as you.

And the holier you get, the less you'll need this kind of attention, because you'll be freed, or you'll know the one who does look at you and cares about you in it all. And so I just offer that as if there's anyone who's like, you know, the idea of letting go of these type of pains and wounds and things, that they're struggling to let go of them. Sometimes it's because we think it's the way that we can earn love or get attention or be noticed. And that's one of the lies that's keeping you in that place. One of the lines that really struck me was that simple line, oh, most gentle God. Yeah, that's, I love that line. It's funny you mentioned that i thought about that

uh when we were looking over this today to know that we're going to talk about this that that line just kind of jumps out doesn't it yeah i don't know why but i don't think of uh i don't think of aquinas praying to god as gentle normally i don't know why um but there's a there is the eucharist if anyone's in ad adoration ever, it's the most gentle reality. There's nothing forceful about the consecrated host, nothing coercive, manipulative. He's just gently there. I'm with you. I'm here. Have you ever read I Believe in Love, a personal retreat based on the teachings of Therese of Ligier? A few chapters I worked on with a religious community starting in our diocese a couple of years ago, but I didn't, I haven't

read the whole book. No. I'm reading through it again. This was a real help to me back in the day when I was struggling with scrupulosity. But there's this one line I want to read because it speaks to what Aquinas is saying here at the gentleness of God. Listen to this. He says, I assure you, we are bathed in love and mercy. We each have a father, a brother, a friend, a spouse of our soul, center and king of our hearts, redeemer and savior, bent down over us, over our weakness and impotence, like that of little children with an inexpressible gentleness, watching over us like the apple of his eye who said, I will have mercy, not sacrifice. If I have come to call the just, not the just, but sinners, a Jesus haunted by the desire to save us by all means, who has opened heaven under our feet.

And we live too often like orphans, like abandoned children, as if it were hell, which had been open under our feet. We are men of little faith. Gets back to what you said a moment ago. We like just breathe, just deep breaths. God loves you. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. The gentle God who came to save us. Like that's, that's his point. He came to trade his merits for our sin. So I was like, okay, Jesus,

since you've come looking for the sin, I'll give them to you on one condition that you give me your merits and salvation. Done. Deal. Yeah. That's the catechism that says, uh,

the Marian mystery precedes the Petrine mystery, right? That we first have to receive or let it be done. Like Jesus is like, I'm doing this for you. All right, then Lord, yes. Then once we receive this, once we say yes to this, once we consent to this, we cooperate in this. Now we respond to this gift by the Petrine mystery, by going out, by preaching, by organizing, by all these things. But first, the primacy is the Marian mystery is this. Jesus is like, I'm going to do this for you. You're like, OK, that's fine.

You can do it for me. It'll be sheer gift. I wouldn't have earned it. I didn't accomplish it. But I get to boast of it and I get to benefit from it. So it really is a gift. And I will welcome it and allow it to define me and fashion me. And then from this place, I will respond and live my P-China Pauline ministry.

And that's a daily reality, right? Like, that's not just like, oh, I did that on a retreat in high school. That's a daily receiving and allowing and saying yes, and then going out and all these things. This line here, Grant, I pray that I may receive not only the sacrament of the Lord's body and blood, but also the reality and power of that sacrament. What do you think he means there? Well, I think sometimes we can, this is Father Ryan Mann language, ritualistic reception of the Eucharist. So we know it's a sacrament.

Okay, sure. I received it, whether I received it on my hand or my tongue. Okay, I received the sacrament of the Eucharist. Got it. And sometimes I think what he's getting at here is just to remind us that, on my hand or my tongue okay i received the sacrament of the eucharist got it and sometimes i think what he's i think what he's getting at here is just to remind us that like what is the fullness of this it's a reality and a power that's coming to us in a sacramental way so to make i think he's just praying and they're not only the sacrament so not only this visible

tangible eating and drinking all right which wouldn't just be a symbolic but like their fullness like what it actually is lord like grant that i may receive the fullness of what this is that i wouldn't limit it in my false thinking and my presumptuous heart and my casualness but i would really let the the immensity of this symbol like, meaning that the immensity of the living Jesus in this host coming into my existence to draw me more deeply into his. I think that's what you get, the depth of the truth, the deepest truth of what's happening here to allow that reality. Because things are signs and symbols, like you said earlier, they can also become

fall flat on us sometimes. And so this is like to reawaken the reality of what's happening. And I think, alluding to what you said a moment ago about your evangelical friend, who one of his obstacles to becoming Catholic was that Catholics didn't seem any better than anyone else. What's the Church teach about our disposition to receive the Eucharist? Because, you know, we receive the Eucharist and it seems to have little or no effect on some of us, and then on others, presumably, like Thomas Aquinas, it does. Yeah, well, I mean, you don't want to say it's everything, but it is a huge ingredient to the recipe. Once again, the spousal analogy works here, right? Like, you know, the husband

can bring home flowers and cook a meal and, you know, say all the sweetest, nicest things, but unless the wife gives herself over, there is no marital union that night. You know, I mean, as much as he's advancing and doing everything he can, there has to be the freedom of the wife to accept the gift, the disposition of allowing herself to be loved. Similarly, the bridegroom, Christ himself, is giving his body, blood, soul, and dignity up for his bride, the church. And if the bride comes forward with a disposition of haughtiness, presumption, I'm basically fine, I don't really need you, like feeling rich when they're poor, feeling self-sufficient when they're totally dependent, when those dispositions are

ignored and they pretty much act, I'm fine, and they say, amen, and they go back to the peers, good, I got to go, I got a soccer game. That's a very different thing. And so the dispositions affect the fruitfulness of this reception, but it doesn't affect the reality of the Eucharist. So just in case people are listening that maybe don't know the church's teaching, our faith and our mind, the reality of the Eucharist is independent of our mind and our consent. We have nothing. It's not a Cartesian thing where we define reality. It's independent. That really is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus, whether you like it, whether you believe in it, whether you have the right disposition or not. But its effect on the one who receives it is determined by the level of faith, we say.

Meaning the ability to recognize I am totally dependent on God, and this is God coming to me. So am I willing to be poor, needy, open, and vulnerable, and defined and fashioned by this communion, or do I think this plus a bunch of other factors in my life are really what are going to make me up? Yeah, that's a good point. I love where it says, may it cancel my faults. When Aquinas says, may it cancel my... It's not about the word cancel. It's so abrupt. It's like, may I delete my faults, cancel them out. Yeah.

And that's part of the teaching of the church, right? Is that like venial sins are melted away by the power of the sacraments. We often don't think of that, do we? No. I mean, we normally think that somehow like all of our sins are being piled up and then we go to confessional

and for mortal ones. But there is a healing. So if sacraments are missing the mark or sin is missing the mark, the little ways we've missed the mark, you kind of like a dad brings us back onto the sidewalk, like don't walk in the street. Come on back over here. I think the sacraments kind of draw you back. Now, come on over here now. All right, like you were impatient, but let's get back here.

That was your wife or that was your kid or that was your boss. Come on now. Um, uh, yeah, the line that gets me though, is that I may be made worthy to be incorporated into his mystical body. Uh, I think this is one of the biggest missing teachings in, uh, the American Catholic church is that we become the body of Christ. We become Christ. We are part of the Christ. And so when we worship, we already are in heaven because Christ is our head and we're connected to him. So we don't pray like the unbaptized outside the mystery. We pray as one incorporated into the mystery. And so quite literally, Augustine will say, we pray to Jesus, through Jesus, and he prays with us and in us. And so the Father hears our prayers in and through Jesus because he is our head and we are his body.

This is the reality of the sacramental power of the third person, the Holy Spirit. And so this Eucharist is a deepening, a drawing further that I could be counted among its members and incorporated into the mystical body. There's a famous priest in the United States named Monsignor Essef. He goes around telling of when you are Jesus. That's rather jarring theologically, but spiritually, it's pretty spot on that in baptism and confirmation in the Eucharist, what happens? You are brought into union with Christ. He is in you and you are in him. This isn't poetry. This is the Christian realism that I am a son in the son. We have become beloved sons and daughters. And we have divine DNA pumping through us, if you

will, due to the birth of baptism. And at every mass, that is deepened and honed so that we can abide in him and he in us as we live our daily lives. in Him and He in us as we live our daily lives. I just finally, I like this last line here about us being wayfarers. O most loving Father, grant that I may at last gaze forever upon the unveiled face of your beloved Son, whom I, a wayfarer, and he goes on. That there seems to be an allusion to St. Paul talking about, you know, beholding with unveiled face the glory of the Lord. But, Jen, this idea that we're wayfarers, what do you think about that?

Yeah, no, I love it. The more and more I'm aware of the Roman Missal, the closing prayer at every Mass kind of captures this same insight, which is that right now we have sacramental signs, but we pray for eternity when it happens. Right now I'm a wayfarer, I'm a journeyer, but I'm a journeyer with a destination. I'm not just like, oh, it's all about the trip, man. Like, no, dude, I don't want to go on a car trip. They stink and they're exhausting. I don't care what kind of great playlist you have. I want to get

there. It's about the destination. No, I mean, how pissed would you be if you were on like this long road trip with a friend? You're like, so wait, so whose house are we arriving at? Like you said, no, we're not going anywhere. What do you mean? We're just going to see what happens. I'll tell you what's going to happen. I'm getting out of the car. Are we going to get anywhere ever? No, because it's about the journey. Yeah, I hate that phrase. Get me off. But this is so beautiful, right?

So Aquinas captures this. He realizes that our destination is not simply a place like heaven, although it is heaven. I'm not a heretic, or at least not about that, I don't think. And so it is heaven. But what is heaven? It's an interpersonal communion. When I see Jesus face to face, like right now I'm with him in the inspiration to the Holy Spirit. I can hear his voice, the teachings of the church, the sacraments, the scriptures, but all of that is veiled. But one day it's going to be unfailed and I will see beauty himself, love himself,

truth himself, goodness himself. And it's at that moment where I've reached my destination. That is the only place that will satisfy me. That is the only place where everything was worth it. I don't know what you're... Return to the fatherland. Yeah, the fatherland. Exactly. I don't know what your listeners or you or me, the immense sufferings, whether imposed on ourselves by our stupid sins at different times in our lives, or the sufferings of family or work or friends, however immense sufferings, when you see Jesus face to face, there'll be an immense gratitude to him

for all of the sacrifices and sufferings, because as St. Paul said, it will be counted as nothing compared to the glory of His face. And so, that's what Aquinas ends with is, Lord, as I'm preparing for this Mass, ultimately, this Mass is to help me long for Heaven, where I will see You, the Spirit, and the Son face to face. Beautiful stuff. As we close here today, I wonder if you, the Spirit, and the Son face to face. Beautiful stuff. As we close here today, I wonder if you have some specific suggestions on how people should prepare for Mass. Yeah, you know, St. Charles Borromeo says,

if you find your prayer to be distracted or difficult, look at what you were doing before you prayed. So if you found that Mass has been rather exhausting or burdensome or, you know, all these things, you know, just kind of dry, whatever, look at what you do before mass. Just take a look at from the time you go to bed the night before to the time you're in mass, what kind of life are you living? You know, meaning like, are you constantly stimulated? Netflix, TV, podcast, music. So there's constant noise going on. You know, also check like, do I know what the readings are? You know, it can take 10 minutes on a Friday or

Saturday and read over the upcoming Sunday readings just to get familiar so that the first time you hear them is not at Sunday mass, but rather you kind of know what the church has put together as God's word for us that Sunday. So reading scripture, looking at your lifestyle beforehand, and then, you know, go on Pints with Aquinas and find this prayer or find it online. I'll throw it in the show notes for sure. Yeah. So look at this prayer and just say, all right, I'm going to do it. Also, it helps.

Now, listen, if you have a family and you get to Mass late and you get angry, just look right at Jesus and watch him say to you, hey, I'm glad you're here. That's it. Don't get angry. It wasn't your wife's fault or your husband's fault. You're there. Okay, you're there. All right. But if you're a single person, you're getting to Mass late, I'm going to have to sit you down and talk to you.

I'm going to smack you. All right, I'm going to talk to you. But it's true. Just try to get to Mass, plan for five minutes early. In most churches, I'll be honest, I know they're not like oratories, they're parishes, and so there can be some restlessness and noise. It's not the most contemplative place. But guess what? You're in a building that has been consecrated by a bishop and been given over to God. And so there is already a sacredness, not to mention the blessed sacrament. So the building itself speaks of a unique presence among all of creation.

So scripture, prepare with prayer, look at your schedule, and as soon as you get there, take a few breaths and just recognize, I'm in a sacred place. Those four things can help orient you to really enter in. Yeah, those are excellent. Thank you very much, Father. Hey, Matt Fradd, it's always good to talk to you and your listeners, and I'm just so happy all of you keep supporting him because the more and more I go, I hear more and more about Pints with Aquinas. I know there's a group of Exodus 90 here in our own diocese of men who are doing it, and since they couldn't watch TV or anything, they all agreed they could listen to Matt Fradd, Pints with Aquinas. So they all like a ton of episodes of yours. And so I'm just glad that all of you keep supporting him and, you know, find more and more friends who aren't Catholic and challenge them to listen to

Pints with Aquinas for like two weeks and just see what questions they have. Awesome stuff. Let's get the word out. Cheers, man. Thank you, Father. Hey, blessings to all of you. All right. You heard the man. Go and support me, only if you want. We are doing a ton of work here, and none of it gets done without you.

That sounds like a cliche, but I divorced myself from my boss about a year and a half ago. And so my bosses are the people who support me on Patreon. That's where I make the most of my, like, that's the bulk of my income there. So if you like the Matt Fradd Show, if you like Pints with Aquinas, it only works because folks support me. Quite honestly, if everyone was like, screw this, we're going to support whoever else, that's fine. You're welcome to do that. But then I would have to go work at Starbucks or something, and that's fine too. Nothing against Starbucks, except they hate babies. But I could, you know, none of this would happen. So if you're a supporter, you should just pat

yourself on the back, look yourself in the eye, in a mirror, be difficult otherwise, and just say, I'm a good human. Thank you very much for supporting me. If you want to support me, go to pintswithaquinas.com slash donate. You can support me directly on my website if you hate Patreon. If you're cool with Patreon, go to patreon.com slash mattfrad and support me there. You give me five bucks a month, 10 bucks a month or more, I send you free things in return, like a signed copy of my book and maybe like a beer stein if you give me more. And we have all this stuff that's going on. Plus I do like weekly video rants that's just for my patrons. So we get to hang out that way. All sorts of other things. If you want to support the show, if you want to get a... Oh my gosh, don't burp in the frigging mic, Matt. At least pause it, then burp. All right,

sorry. Well, don't be sorry. Just, you know, next time just click stop. Okay, got it. Anyway, you could do that. Patreon.com slash Matt Fradd or pints with aquinas.com slash donate thank you very much thank you very much thank you very much for supporting the show and for the 18,000th time this is my sister emma frad everyone has questions about it this is emma emma emma emma look up emma frad follow her on facebook follow her on all the things. Let's listen to her now. Shh, be quiet, listen. Who's gonna survive? Who's gonna survive?

And I would give my whole life To carry you, to carry you. And I would give my whole life to carry you, to carry you. And I would give my whole life to carry you, to carry you, to carry you, to carry you, to carry you. There were birds in your tears Falling from the sky Into a dry riverbed That began to flow down to A cross tower and high up above the water And maple trees surrounded

It leaves caught flame With golden embers.