Pints With Aquinas - 183: Jesus Christ: Lord, Liar, Lunatic, or Legend? (Apostles Creed #3)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, quick heresy alert, guys. In today's episode, I spout heretical nonsense on accident. So, technically, it's not heresy, but it's definitely kind of wrong. I said on today's podcast that Jesus Christ is two persons. two natures. The Council of Chalcedon says Christ is truly man and truly God. Christ has a true human nature and a true divine nature. These two natures are perfectly united in one person with no mixture, confusion, separation, or division. So there you go. I misspoke. Mayor Culper. Please nobody tell Taylor Marshall. G'day. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. Today we are going to look at Thomas Aquinas' commentary on the creed. We're going to address the idea that if Jesus Christ was not who he claimed to be, that is the Lord, then you've got three other options.

Starting point is 00:00:58 Either he was a lunatic or a liar or maybe just a legend. Maybe he never existed. We're going to get into that. I'm going to be talking to you about how Dave Rubin's assistant just reached out to me to see if I wanted to be on the Rubin Report and how you might help with that. We talk about how we can love Holy Scripture more. Aquinas has this really cool thing in this kind of commentary on the Apostles' Creed where he shows how Mary does five things regarding the Word of God that we should do. It's really beautiful. I think you're going to really like this episode. So strap into your favorite chair, grab a beer, because here we go. All right, welcome back. How are you going? Depines with Aquinas. This is the show where Who's in your heart? I wish I had bourbon, but I don't have bourbon. I usually have bourbon up in my cupboard, but I didn't, so I had to do with what I could.

Starting point is 00:02:08 I hope you're having a great day. I am really excited we're doing this commentary on the Creed. So for those of you who have perhaps missed it, we've done two episodes so far on the Creed. Thomas Aquinas has a commentary on the Creed, and as I said, we're going to be going over this. So episode 177 was the first episode. The second episode we did was 179. And the way you'll know that we're going through the Creed is by scanning through those old episodes. And towards the end of the title, I have parentheses Apostles' Creed, number one, number two. So today is number three, and I'm really excited to go through it. And part of the reason I wanted to get into this issue of the creed is we need to get back to

Starting point is 00:02:50 basics. If you are building on a shaky foundation, the building is unlikely to stand or could be blown over or knocked down easily. We need to get back to basics so that we can build on solid ground. We need to know who God is, who Jesus Christ is, who the Holy Spirit is, what the Catholic Church is, why we need to be members of it, and so forth. So that's why I decided we would get back into this. really great. I actually used it today. I was laying down in bed and I was just doing this meditation. There are a lot of great apps out there that can help you meditate, but the problem is a lot of those apps are new agey, you know, and it leads you into kind of erroneous practices and ways of thinking. What's great about Halo, H-A-L-O-W, is that it is a meditation app, but it's 100% Catholic. So if you need help with your prayer time, go check this out. I think you'll be legitimately impressed. Sometimes you hear about things like

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Starting point is 00:04:29 it out. You'll find it really cool, I think. Hello.app slash Matt Fradd. All right, so let's just delve into today's episode. Oh, I've got to tell you something really exciting. I nearly forgot. Let me take a drink. I was just contacted by Dave Rubin's assistant and they said that Dave wants me to be on the Rubin Report early in 2020. I think I'll do it. We're going to have a conversation. I'll be having a conversation with someone from his team on Tuesday. It still may not go ahead, but I mean, they're the ones who said they wanted me, so it looks like it will. If you want me to be on the Rubin Report, maybe shoot him a tweet and say, you'd love to have me

Starting point is 00:05:08 on the Rubin Report. I'm a little nervous, I'll be honest, because you remember when Bishop Barron went on the Rubin Report? I think like 98% of the things he said were great. I think he kind of dropped the ball on a few things, but it's really easy to be a critic from the sideline and say, oh, come on. Yeah, well, you try being in the hot seat. Honestly, if you were sitting there with Dave Rubin and everyone's watching, how confident are you that you'd say everything as well as you should? I'm not confident that I'll do that. And I know for a fact, because I'm human and weak and fallible, that I'll say things that I regret maybe, or I'll fail to say something, and these sorts of things. So I think it's my ego. I think it's my pride that is kind of making me think that maybe I shouldn't go on it. I was sharing with my patrons a bit about that false

Starting point is 00:05:56 humility, and then fear. And I don't think either of that's from the Lord. So I do think I'll accept it if the offer becomes official, but maybe shoot Dave Rubin a tweet. I mean, do what you want, but if you want me on the show and let him know, because I'm sure that would help him. So that's pretty cool. All right, let's get into today's episode. So here's what's going to happen. We're going to talk about this article in the Creed, I believe in Jesus Christ is only son, our Lord. 1st Aquinas is going to have a look at three errors concerning this doctrine from Photinus, Sibelius, and Arius. And then he's going to talk about the truth, okay, and how we ought to read the Word of God, right? That is to say,

Starting point is 00:06:43 Word of God in Scripture, because Aquinas gets into that. So, this is just packed with awesome insight. And along the way, I want to talk about this whole Jesus Christ is either the Lord, or he's a liar, or he's a lunatic, or he is a legend. So, let's just begin here by delving in. Aquinas says it's not only necessary for Christians to believe in one God who is the creator of heaven and earth and of all things, okay, obviously, but we also must believe that God is the Father, okay, and that Christ is the true Son. This, as St. Peter says, is not mere fable, okay? This is from 2 Peter 1, verse 16. Here's what St. Peter says. He says, For we have not, by following artificial fables, made known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his greatness. For we received from God the Father

Starting point is 00:07:40 honour and glory, this voice coming down to him from the excellent glory. This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. Listen to him. And the voice we heard brought from heaven when we were with him in the Holy Mount. There you go. That's awesome. He's referring to, where is it? Matthew 17, the transfiguration there. So fair enough. It's not enough for you just to believe that God exists to be a Christian. You have to believe that Jesus Christ is his son. And I love what St. Peter says here. I find that sometimes I engage with atheists and they bring up this idea that maybe belief in God is just wishful thinking, as if I had never considered that. Well, maybe you're only a Christian because you're afraid of life and you just need there to be like a safe, fun place to

Starting point is 00:08:23 go when you're dead. And yeah, I'm very aware that when you phrase it like that, it can sound rather attractive, even if it sounds somewhat simplistic. But I love that Peter's sort of aware of this accusation as well, where he says, look, listen to me. We are not following artificial fables. I love it. It's like, me. We are not following artificial fables. I love it. It's like, I get how it sounds and yet, I love that. Aquinas continues, Christ Jesus himself in many places called God his father and himself the son of God. Both the apostles and the fathers placed in the articles of faith that Christ is the son of God by saying, and I believe in Jesus Christ, his only son. All right. So, let's get into these three errors, Photinus, and then we'll pause to talk about the Lord,

Starting point is 00:09:14 Liar, Lunatic, or Legend, and then Sibelius and Arius. So, let's just kind of sum these up. The error of Photinus is that he believed that Christ is not the son of God, but just a good man who by a good life and by doing the will of God merited to be called the son of God by adoption. That's the era of Photinus. What's the era of Sibelius? He believed that Christ indeed was before the blessed virgin, but he held that the father himself became incarnate, and therefore the father and the son, he thought, were the same person. Arius, Aquinas wants to accuse of more of just that. And so we might wait a little bit until we get into that, because it's going to take a little more effort. But this idea of Photinus, right, that Christ wasn't God, he was just, you know, a good person,

Starting point is 00:10:04 that's who he was. Of course, there's a problem with that, and this has been pointed out by C.S. Lewis, and he's bringing this in from the church fathers, where he says that Christ, if he claims to be God and he isn't, well, we can't call him a good person. If someone says that they're God and they're not, says that they're God and they're not, we have a problem. They're either a liar, in which case they're a bad man, or they're insane. They're mentally unwell, in which I guess you might say they're a sick man, but you wouldn't call them a good man necessarily. But the problem is, of course, Jesus Christ did indeed claim to be God. For example, in John 8, 58, Jesus applies the divine name, which as you know, the Jews dared not even pronounce to himself. He said that before the

Starting point is 00:10:54 prophet Abraham was, and of course, Abraham lived thousands of years before Christ. And Jesus says, before Abraham was, I am. And you might think, okay, yeah, that's kind of mystical, kind of weird. But what's the big deal about that? Well, look what happens immediately after. After these words, this statement of his throws the Jewish high priests into a frenzy and motivates them to kill him. Okay. So he's clearly claiming to himself when he says, I am, this comes from, of course, from where is it? Exodus chapter three. I want to say verse 14, but it might be mistaken where God says from the burning bush to Moses, Moses says, who are you? He says, I am who I am. I am who I am. And so here we have Jesus saying before Abraham was,

Starting point is 00:11:45 right? Thousands of years ago, I am. That's pretty crazy stuff there. In John 20, 28, we see another example of Jesus accepting this idea of him being divine. We see that Thomas says to Jesus after the resurrection, my Lord and my God. Now, Thomas isn't blaspheming here, right? He's not like, oh my, no, he's not doing that. Jews don't use the name lightly. And Jesus, who like all good Jews knew there could only be one God, doesn't correct Thomas for saying this, right? And he should have if it were blasphemy, but it wasn't. Sometimes it's hard to see how radical this is because we've heard it all of our life. But I mean, the divinity of Christ is a striking claim and it's one that can either be true or false, right?

Starting point is 00:12:48 There's no middle ground here. If it's true, then he's God, however great a mystery this is. And then we would say, in agreement with Aquinas, that the core of the Christian faith is true. Now, if what he said is false, then, as I said earlier, we can't call him a good and wise person. So that leaves us with three alternatives. Number one, we can say he was a liar, right? A religious phony who duped people into believing in him. Or we can say he was a lunatic, right? He may have been sincere, but seriously deluded. Or I guess we could, yeah, and this is a thing I think Lewis actually left this out

Starting point is 00:13:31 when he made this argument, but here's the other option I can think of. We could just say that Jesus was a legend, right? He didn't actually exist. So I want to look at each of these before we move on to what Aquinas has to say about these other areas from Sibelius and Arius. So let's have a drink of vodka. Man, you know what I don't like? Can I just take a pause here to say what I don't like? I do not like when people chew on ice. I get that you might like chewing on ice. Nobody else around you wants to hear it. Please, please don't chew on ice. Even drinking with ice in the cup isn't, listen to that. That's annoying enough. We don't need you chewing on it. All right. The liar hypothesis. If Jesus was a liar, then it follows, as I said,

Starting point is 00:14:18 that he was a bad man. Why? Because no good man would deceive others about his identity or encourage them to worship him, as we see in Matthew 28, 17. Or he also wouldn't cause people to leave everything they had to follow him by making false claims about himself. Now, a problem with this option, the liar hypothesis, is that really no one who reads the life of Christ can reasonably find him to be a bad man, even by today's standards. I mean, think about it in Matthew 14, where is it? I forget where, but he feeds the hungry. We see that he comforts the sorrowful in Luke chapter 23, verse 27. He shows compassion to those living in immoral lives, like John 8, for example, the woman at the well. Yeah. And in fact, not only does he do this,

Starting point is 00:15:15 but he commands his followers to do similar things, right? To clothe the naked, care for the sick, visit those in prison, Matthew 25. So by all accounts, Jesus of Nazareth was a morally enlightened individual, not a liar. So that won't do. All right, what about the lunatic hypothesis? Maybe Jesus was sincere, okay, in claiming to be God, but he was sincerely wrong. I mean, this is possible. I have to imagine that insane asylums are full of such people. But the problem is, of course, when we read about Jesus, when we read the Gospels, he does not in any way, shape or form come off as a crazy person. At least, I mean, I think if we're being honest and we're reading the Gospels, he doesn't. I mean, read Matthew chapter 5,

Starting point is 00:16:03 verse 1 through 10, the Sermon on the Mount. Try to read that and see if these were merely the rantings of a lunatic. This is not at all the case. His teachings are wise, balanced, smart, not irrational. So that's not going to do either. So, okay, well, maybe you'll say, all right, fair enough. Sure. If the New Testament is reliable and Jesus claimed to be God, then I can't say that he was a liar and a bad man. And I cannot say that he was a lunatic and therefore just say a sick man, but maybe, maybe Jesus never existed. Right? So I want to address that because some people like Richard Carrier and others have claimed this. Now it's important to point out that this is the fringe of the fringe, but let's address it anyway. Some people have claimed that Jesus never existed. Or if they don't make such a radical claim, they'll say that if he did exist, so much legend has grown around him that we can't actually trust what the New Testament documents say about him, about his life and about his teachings.

Starting point is 00:17:04 what the New Testament documents say about him, about his life and about his teachings. And that therefore we got no way of sorting out what he really said and did. And if that's the case, right, you can't therefore kind of assess whether he was a liar or a lunatic, right? But there are four reasons that I want to give you that show why we ought to trust the New Testament. First of all, the New Testament documents are incredibly reliable. The majority of the books of the New Testament were written within the first generation after his crucifixion, while most of the eyewitnesses of Jesus' ministry were still alive. Now, what does that mean? Well, this actually gives us, and not a lot of people realize this, I don't think, it actually gives us better sources for the life of Christ than we actually have for most of the major figures of antiquity. Our earliest biographies of Alexander the Great,

Starting point is 00:17:59 for example, were written 400 years after his death. And yet historians don't doubt that Alexander the Great existed, or that we have a basically accurate knowledge about his life. Okay. Here's the second reason. And I remember when I first learned this, I couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it in the sense, I guess, how come nobody had ever told me this, right? But this is a historical fact that the New Testament documents are better attested to than any other work of antiquity by a landslide. Here's what I mean. We actually have 500 manuscripts that are dated earlier of the New Testament, earlier than AD 500, okay. 500. It's 500 manuscripts. So, okay. Let me just say that one more time in case you missed it. We have 500 manuscripts that are dated earlier than AD 500. What's the next best attested work of antiquity after the New Testament? It's Homer's

Starting point is 00:18:59 epic poem, the Iliad. Okay. so we have 500 manuscripts of the New Testament early than AD 500. This next best attested work, Homer's, you know, the Iliad, we have 50 copies that date within 500 years of its origin, 500 to 50. That's pretty amazing. Now, why does that matter? Well, it matters because the quantity of New Testament manuscripts enable us to check them against each other and ensure that they've been, you know, written reliably transmitted to us. And the thing is, there are few variants, and only few, very small variants between the documents. And most of these are in the Bible, actually, as footnotes. You know how you'll get down and it'll have a little footnote, it'll say,

Starting point is 00:19:50 this is not included in earlier manuscripts and these sorts of things. That's the kind of discrepancies we're talking about. Nothing major, right? So, that's a good reason, right? To realize that the story of Jesus is not merely a legend that built up slowly over time. And that's how we can know that. not just Jesus of Nazareth, actually, but others, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, in non-biblical sources around the same time, right? Such as the writings, and many of you may know this, of the Jewish historian Josephus. He lived, I think he died around AD 100 or thereabouts. Other early authors who make reference to Jesus in the early Christian community include Roman official Pliny the Younger, the Roman historian Tacitus, and more. So to say that the apostles... And so here would be the fourth reason. Here would be the fourth

Starting point is 00:20:56 reason. If you want to say that the apostles just made up this story of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection, here's what you must also be willing to say. You have to also claim that the apostles, right, were willing to endure horribly painful deaths, including being flayed alive, crucified, stoned, beheaded, for what they knew was a lie, right? Because sometimes people will say, yeah, okay, maybe they were sincere, but they were sincerely wrong. Look at those people who crashed into the Twin Towers. They were sincere as well. Doesn't mean we should believe them. Yeah, but they, okay. The September 11 attacks do not prove the truthfulness of Islam, but they do prove that these believers in Islam were sincere in their belief. But the difference between them and the apostles is the terrorists

Starting point is 00:21:58 weren't in a place to know whether Muhammad was the prophet and that the Quran is the word of God in the way that the apostles were in a place to know that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. But in both cases, it shows that they're sincere. So if you've got people who say they saw Jesus Christ, saw the miracles, saw him rose from the dead, it shows that they were sincere. And so you have to say that they were willing to endure this kind of death or if not death right because i think we have concrete pretty concrete evidence that both saint paul and saint peter were martyred for their faith the others it can get a little

Starting point is 00:22:35 shakier but tradition says that everyone but saint john um was was martyred saint jude of course killed not saint jude but judas killed himself himself. But this argument that you have to believe that they were all willing to keep up this lie is not a modern invention. It's actually something from the fourth century historian Eusebius. Here's what he said, noting that if the story of Jesus was made up, he says, what a wonder it is that such a number were also to keep to their agreement about their fabrication, even in the face of death, that no coward among them ever retired from the association and made a premature repudiation of the things agreed upon, nor did they ever announce anything in contradiction to the others, bringing to light what had been put together among themselves. bringing to light what had been put together among themselves. All right. So I would say that, and we can't go into it all the way here. Trent Horn has got a great DVD and a book out on Jesus Christ, which, you know, and others have written a great deal about this as well. But these and many other reasons make it clear why the idea that Jesus never existed is more the stuff of

Starting point is 00:23:41 internet forums and amateur bloggers and YouTubers, honestly, than serious historians, almost none of whom, right, like 99.99999% give any serious credence to that fringe idea. a liar, a lunatic, or a legendary figure, then logically we must be prepared to accept him as what he claimed to be. That is to say the God of the universe. And if you call him good, merely good as Photinus did, or wise, this is not an option. This is not an option open for you. And this is something that C.S. Lewis pointed out. I love the way he puts it. So let me quote it. He says, either this man, that is Christ, was and is the son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fall. You can spit at him and kill him as a demon, or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. Isn't that fantastic? Love that quote. So there's just kind of a bit of a

Starting point is 00:24:58 reason for why Fotonis is wrong. Now, in previous episodes on the Creed, I pointed out that these episodes aren't going to be an hour long, and there's going to be a lot of reading in these. So, let me kind of dig into the text here, and I hope that you lovers of Thomas Aquinas will track along with me, even though it lacks the kind of dynamism of a conversation with me and Father Gregory Pine or something. dynamism of a conversation with me and Father Gregory Pine or something. So Aquinas says, this idea of photinus is that he was merited, Christ was merited to be called the son of God by adoption because he was good. And so Christ who lived a good life and did the will of God merited to be called a son of God. And here's what Aquinas says. This error would not have Christ living before the blessed virgin, but would have him begin to exist only at his conception. Accordingly, there are here two errors that he makes. The first, that Christ is not the true son of God according to his nature. And the second,

Starting point is 00:25:59 that Christ is in his entire being, began to exist in time. Our faith, says Aquinas, however, holds that Christ is the son of God in his nature and that he is from all eternity. Now, we have definite authority against these errors in the Holy Scriptures, against the first error. It is said that Christ is not only the son, but also the only begotten son of the father. We read that in John 1.18. And again, the second error, and I quoted this a moment ago from Christ in John 8, where he says, Before Abraham was, I am. It is evident, says Aquinas, that Abraham lived before the Blessed Virgin. And what the fathers

Starting point is 00:26:47 added to the Nicene Creed, namely the only begotten son of God, is against this first error. And then born of the father before all ages is against the second error. So do you see why the creed is so important? The creed combats errors and heresies committed prior to the time the creed was written. And it also kind of helps respond to heresies that pop up in the future because nothing is new under the sun. And what we often see is that heresies that have been dealt with in the past spring up in all sorts of weird areas in the future. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses kind of believe something to this effect, right? Not that he merit be God by adoption, but that he didn't exist before all ages. All right. Sibelius said that Christ was before the Blessed Virgin. So he gets that right where Photinus doesn't,

Starting point is 00:27:43 but he held that the father himself became incarnate, right? And therefore that the father and the son are the same person. This is an error because it takes away the Trinity of persons in God and against it is this authority. This comes from John 8. I am not alone, but I am the father who sent me. Okay. So if you want to say, well, Jesus is just like an expression of God, you know, kind of like, I am a father to my son, but I'm an uncle to my nephew and I'm a son. See, so I'm three as well. I, you know, in relationship, I'm a son to my father. And so Sibelius is kind of saying something like that, right? So, that God is seen to be a father, but when he becomes incarnate, we see him as the son, but it's really the same person. No, you can't say that. And Aquinas gives us a reason here from Holy Scripture,

Starting point is 00:28:38 right? I am not alone, but I am the father who sent me. So, Aquinas says, it is clear that one cannot be sent from himself. You have to wonder if Aquinas was smirking while he was writing this. It is clear that one cannot be sent from himself. So Sibelius errs, and in the Nicene Creed of the Fathers, it is said, God from God, light from light. That is, we are to believe in God, the son from God, the father, and the son who is light from the father who is light. Drink of vodka. One second. Arius, let's see what he had to say. His errors, Arius, errors, Arius, errors, errors, Arius, Arius, errors. Okay. So he says that regarding Ares, although he would say that Christ was before the Blessed Virgin

Starting point is 00:29:29 and that the person of the Father is other than the person of the Son, nevertheless, he made a threefold attribution to Christ. One, that the Son of God was a creature. Not okay. Not okay. Two, that he is not from eternity, but was formed the noblest of all creatures in time by God. Goodness, this really does sound like Jehovah's Witnesses kind of theology. And three, that God the son is not of one nature with God the father, and therefore that he was not true God. But this, says Aquinas, is erroneous and contrary to the teaching of the Holy Scriptures.

Starting point is 00:30:12 Can we just pause a moment, as we so often do here at Pints with Aquinas, and recognize how faithful Thomas Aquinas is to the Word of God, right? If there were only one other book you could read for the rest of your days, and you don't answer Holy Scripture, you are wrong to say whatever you say. Really, you are. Like if you say the Brothers Karamazov or Lord of the Rings, nah, as fantastic as those things are, you know, other books may be words about God, okay? But only the Bible is the Word of God. And Thomas has such a reverence for the Holy Scriptures. And if you, my dear brother or sister, do not love the Holy Bible, if you do not read it daily, beg the Father to give you a desire to consume His Word. If we are not familiar with the Scriptures, if we don't love the scriptures, if we aren't

Starting point is 00:31:05 obedient to the scriptures, we're not going to stand in this crooked generation in which we live. So that's a side note. Okay. But notice how much Aquinas quotes the scriptures here. And he says, John 10, 30, right? I and the Father are one. That is in nature, says Aquinas. And therefore, I and the Father are one. That is in nature, says Aquinas. And therefore, just as the Father always existed, so also the Son. And just as the Father is true God, so also is the Son. That Christ is a creature, as said by Arius, is contradicted in the symbol by the Fathers, true God of true God. And the assertion that Christ is not from eternity, but in time is also contrary to the Nicene Creed. We read begotten, not man. And finally, that Christ is not of the same substance of the father is denied by the Nicene Creed where we read consubstantial

Starting point is 00:31:58 with the father. Just a quick point that sometimes people get confused about. If I ask you, Just a quick point that sometimes people get confused about. If I ask you, how many persons was Jesus Christ? Hopefully you say two, right? And whether he was a divine person and a human person. But if I were to say to you, well, how many beings was Jesus? You know, was he a human being? Well, the answer is no, actually.

Starting point is 00:32:23 Jesus Christ was not a human being. Jesus Christ was a divine being with a human nature. And again, these things that might seem a little intricate or a little kind of like, I don't know, just too detailed to be taken seriously. When you don't get these small things right, they end up in huge errors in the long run. Again, this is why we want to focus on the creed a little bit here. So, here's what Aquinas says regarding the truth of the matter, right? It is therefore clear, we, that is you, dear listener, and me, if we wish to be saved, we must believe that Christ is the only begotten Son of God and the true Son of God who always was with the father and that there is one person of the son and another of the father who have the same divine nature. Okay. And this we believe now through faith, but we shall know it with a perfect vision in the life eternal. Hence, we shall now speak somewhat of this for our own edification. Now here, Aquinas elaborates a little bit more, but for the sake of brevity, I want to skip a

Starting point is 00:33:32 couple of paragraphs here and talk as the word in God. In us, the word is an accident. Whereas in God, the word is the same as God. Since there is nothing in God that is not of the essence of God. No one would say God has not a word because such would make God holy without knowledge. And therefore, as God always existed, so also did his word ever exist. Just as a sculptor works from a form which he has previously thought out, which is his word in some sense. So also God makes all things by his word as it were through his art.

Starting point is 00:34:23 All things were made by him, John 1.3. You know, I was reading Colossians the other day and it just blew me away. I don't know if you ever do this, have this where you read sacred scripture, you know, and you're like, I had no idea that this was even in there. Let me see where my Bible is. I want to pull this out for y'all because it blew me away. Give me one sec. All right, check this out. So let's just suppose, because sometimes I read the scriptures and I'm like, I have no idea what this means. Look, I have no idea how to explain this. But just like, whatever this, suppose you're like, I believe the word of God. I believe what it says about Christ. Sometimes we kind of become so familiar with Christ that we forget his greatness and grandeur.

Starting point is 00:35:01 Listen to this from chapter one, verse 15 of Colossians. He, that is Christ, is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Now, it does this beautiful thing here where, well, I'll just read it. For in him, all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities. All things were created through him and for him. Who is this man? You know, I read that and I have that same sense that I bet the apostles had in the boat where they say to Christ, don't you even care that we're drowning?

Starting point is 00:35:41 And he stands up and he rebukes the storm and it becomes quiet. And they look at him and like, who are you? Brothers and sisters, let us never cease to wonder at the person of Christ. I mean, listen to what the word of God says right there. Everything in heaven and on earth, everything was created, it says, in him, through him, and for him. Every single thing that exists, exists for Christ. Now, I don't fully know how to explain that or to draw out all the implications of that. But the point, again, is just to wonder at this person of Christ who loved us, gave himself for us. Oh, brothers and sisters, I was at Holy Mass today and I thought of something that Father Gregory Pine said to me in a previous episode.

Starting point is 00:36:30 He said, if you were at Calvary and you were to take a ladder and lead it up against the crucifix and you were to climb up and you were to whisper into the ears of Christ, why are you doing this? He would have looked at you and said, because you're worth it. Sometimes things can sound hallmarky, eh? And you're like, yeah, that's not really true. You know, no, no, no, no, no, it is. It's deeply true. It's deeply true. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, God himself, right, does not love you like a blob of humanity.

Starting point is 00:37:20 Like, yeah, I love that. No, no, no. He loves you, dear podcast listener, wherever you are and whatever you're doing. He sees you. To use some anthropomorphic language, he hasn't taken his eyes off of you since your conception. And that's anthropomorphic, but it's inadequate. I mean, he sustains you at every moment. He is more present to you than you are, holding you in existence. And he loves you. He likes you. As it says in one spiritual book I read, he has bent over you, looking upon you with inexpressible tenderness. Give yourself to him right now brother. Or sister.

Starting point is 00:38:07 Pause the podcast. And just cry out to him. And say father I love you. But I don't love you as I ought to love you. Help me love you as I ought to love you. I want to love your word more. But I don't love it the way I ought to love it. Give me the desire to love it.

Starting point is 00:38:21 And put within me that desire. I want to pray more than I'm praying right now. But I know that my will alone isn't enough to get me out of bed in the morning. So Father, you put within me the desire and help me to do it. Give me your Holy Spirit so that I can live this dynamic relationship that you want with me. Okay. So here's what I want to do. Aquinas talks about the Word of God, okay? We've been talking about the Scriptures. He says, let's see here. Sorry, I just got a little distracted. Here we go. Now, if the Word of God is the Son of God, and all the words of God bear a certain likeness of this Word, okay? then we ought to hear the word of God, that is the scriptures, gladly, for such is a sign that we love God. And so, he's going to give us five

Starting point is 00:39:12 things we ought to do with the Bible, with the word of God, and then he's going to show why Mary did this perfectly. So, number one, we should, you know, love the word of God and hear it gladly. Secondly, we ought also to believe the word of God, whereby the word of God and hear it gladly. Secondly, we ought also to believe the word of God, whereby the word of God dwells in us, who is Christ. In Ephesians 3.17, we read that Christ may dwell by faith in your hearts, and in John 5.38, and you have not his word abiding in you, abiding in you and have you not? Sorry. Thirdly, we ought not only to believe that the word of God dwells in us, but also we should meditate often upon it for otherwise we will not be benefited to the extent that such meditation is a great help against sin. Your words have I hidden in my heart that I may not sin against you. Psalm 108, 11.

Starting point is 00:40:10 And it is said of the Blessed Virgin that she kept all these things, pondering them in her heart. That's Luke 2, 19. I just want to pause a moment there. One of the things Father Larry Richards, someone, I haven't chatted with him in a while now, but we used to be quite, you know, somewhat close. Went and saw an X-Men movie with him once. Anyway, he said, he has got this lovely line, no Bible, no breakfast, no Bible, no bed. All right. So if you're trying to love the word of God more, that's something you can implement. Maybe put a copy of the New Testament by your coffee pot or put it in the fridge. So it is a, yes, in the fridge. So it is a reminder to you every single

Starting point is 00:40:45 morning, right? Maybe put it on your bed, right? On your pillow so that you know you're going to read this before you go to bed, right? And don't read it for immediate gratification, right? Read it because you ought to read it, because you ought to love it. And if you don't love it, and if it doesn't excite you the way that The Office on Netflix excites you, that's not a reason to put it down. It's actually a reason to keep going. Because I think a sort of deafness to the Word of God, a sort of, what do you say? To be bored with the Word of God is not a sign that we're too familiar with it. It's a sign that we're not nearly familiar enough with it as we ought to be. Here's the, let's see, the fourth reason.

Starting point is 00:41:37 He says, then also one should communicate the word of God to others by advising, preaching, and inflaming their hearts. Let no evil speech proceed from your mouth, but that which is good to the edification of faith. Likewise, let the word of Christ dwell in you abundantly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another. So also preach the word, be instant in season, sorry, consistent in season, out of season, reprove, entreat, rebuke, and all patience and doctrine. The other day I was flying to a Victoria in Texas. Now I know what you're thinking, if you know Texas, Victoria doesn't have an airport. Yeah, it doesn't, except it has a really, Texas. Now, I know what you're thinking. If you know Texas, Victoria doesn't have an airport. Yeah, it doesn't, except it has a really, really small one. And so, I took a kind of corporate plane from Dallas to Victoria to give some talks there recently, last week. And I sat next to a guy who used to be the vice president of PepsiCo. And the reason we were talking is I had my Bible out

Starting point is 00:42:23 in front of me reading it. Now, can I just be honest? I don't actually like doing that a lot of the time. I just, I don't, and I mean, I guess I'm embarrassed that I don't like this. I'm embarrassed saying this to you, but pulling out my Bible, like in a plane next to someone, it really feels like I'm making a statement and that's really not what I'm doing. I just want to read the Bible sometimes. You know what I mean? But I've been forcing myself lately to do that. So I pull out the scriptures and we got into this big conversation about the Bible and he was a Christian and we got to share some beautiful things the Lord's doing in our life. So yeah, that's a good thing. But to his point about communicating the word of God, here's the fifth

Starting point is 00:42:58 reason. He says, finally, we ought to put the word of God into practice, be doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourselves. James 1.22. All right. Here's what I want to wrap up with this. The Blessed Virgin observed these five points when she gave birth to the word of God. How did she observe these five points? First, she heard what was said to her. The Holy Spirit shall come upon you.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Second, she gave her consent through faith. Behold the handmaid of the Lord. Third, she also received and carried it in her womb, like actually physically. Fourth, she then brought forth the word of God. And finally, she nourished and cared for him. And so the church sings, only a virgin nourished him who is king of the angels. That's from the fourth responsory office of the circumcision in the Dominican bravery. All right, my brothers and sisters, we have gone through quite a bit today in this third episode of the Apostles' Creed. As I say, I didn't want to kind of do these 12 episodes in a row. I'm going to be sprinkling them out and having kind of conversational podcasts in between. But the way you'll be able to tell that this is an episode

Starting point is 00:44:10 on the Creed again is by going through those older episodes. And after the title, there'll be a parentheses and it'll say, you know, the Apostles' Creed number one, number two, or whatever. So today we looked at three errors concerning Christ, errors from Photinus, Sibelius, and Arius. And then we spoke about the truth, and then what the word of God has in common to Jesus Christ, and why we should love the Bible more. So, my brothers and sisters, I hope that that was a tremendous help. You know, over on Patreon, you can see if you go there right now, patreon.com slash Matt Fradd, I'm not far away from reaching the amount I need to reach in order to, one, put out a Pints with Aquinas app, two, to be better equipped to go to these developing countries next year at no expense

Starting point is 00:44:52 to those people in those countries to deliver apologetics conferences and literature and catechisms and rosaries, and then finally to start doing more episodes of The Matt Fradd Show. Now, we have people who drop out of Patreon for different reasons. I just had someone write to me the other day. They said, hey, I'm going to seminary and so can't keep supporting you. This happens all the time. I'd say like a couple of dozen people, maybe sometimes more, drop out on Patreon every month. And so we're always in need of people who want to be faithful patrons to see that this work keeps getting better and keeps growing and expanding so that the word of God

Starting point is 00:45:25 can be heard. I mean, my goodness, if it is the case, if it is the good Lord's will that I will be on Dave Rubin's show, what a beautiful opportunity to hopefully in some way witness to my love for Christ on so public a platform. By giving to me on Patreon, you get a bunch of free stuff in return, like a signed copy of my book, Does God Exist? A Socratic Dialogue on the Five Ways of Thomas Aquinas, which I post to your door. You'll get stickers, like the Pints with Aquinas logo sticker, but then also a fun sticker of Thomas Aquinas throwing a fireball at Richard Dawkins. It's a really beautifully illustrated picture. Many of you have seen it. If you give more, you can get this beautiful beer stein. If you were to buy the beer

Starting point is 00:46:05 stein, it's like $35. They're handmade one at a time, hand painted within the US. I mean, I know a bunch of other podcasts have these like cheap drinking vessels they give away, tumblers and things like that. This is actually the greatest thing I think out there. Like when it comes to giving you something back to be a patron, I really do think that. I'm not just saying that because it's mine. If there was something better, I will repent of it. But seriously, it is the greatest. Yeah. And you just get a bunch of other things in return. Like we just did a video book study on Flannery O'Connor. It looks like we're going to have one on St. Augustine's Confessions coming up just for our patrons. We're always putting out content

Starting point is 00:46:40 and you can have access to it all right now by going to patreon.com slash Matt Fradd and it would really help us out and we would greatly appreciate it. All right, God bless. Thank you so much for listening. Hope to speak with you next week. Do us a favor if you haven't already and review us on iTunes. It'll only take you two seconds, but it means a ton to us or review us wherever you listen to these podcasts. Have a good one.

Pints With Aquinas - 183: Jesus Christ: Lord, Liar, Lunatic, or Legend? (Apostles Creed #3)

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