Pints With Aquinas - 21: What do you think of Islam?

Episode Date: August 30, 2016

[Muhammad] seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning, Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Muhammad forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms. Nor do divine pronouncements on the part of preceding prophets offer him any witness. On the contrary, he perverts almost all the testimonies of the Old and New Testaments by making them into fabrications of his own, as can be. seen by anyone who examines his law. It was, therefore, a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place any faith in his words believe foolishly SCG 1, 6, 4. --- Three Resources: 1. The Quran -  http://www.clearquran.com/ or https://www.amazon.com/The-Koran/dp/B0037TSEN6/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468251701&sr=1-8&keywords=quran+english%2C+audible 2. 20 Answers: Islam - http://shop.catholic.com/20-answers-islam.html 3. Peter Kreeft vs Robert Spencer debate - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh2tFhUCq4c --- SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS  Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

G'day listeners to Pints with Aquinas. Good to have you back with us. This is our 21st episode and I wanted to do something special for y'all. I would love it if you would consider rating Pints with Aquinas. And so this week only, I've got a dealio thing going on. Here's how it works. If you rate Pints with Aquinas this week, okay, so if you've rated in the past, this doesn't apply to you. But if you rate this week, you will go into the draw to win one of 10 e-book copies of my book, 20 Answers Atheism. So there will be 10 winners at the end of this week. I might not even get 10 people rating the podcast. So look, I know the reason you rate podcasts and just because the book, here's one of the cool reasons you should rate it though. Um, by rating the podcast,

it comes up higher when people search pints with Aquinas in iTunes. Um, and that means a lot of people are going to begin to find the show, not just Catholics, but Protestants and atheists and people of other religions. And so it would really help us out if you did that. So write the podcast. other religions. And so it would really help us out if you did that. So rate the podcast. Okay. Next week's episode, I'm going to come back and I'll tell you who the winners are. There will be 10 winners this week, and I will email you a copy of my ebook, 20 Answers Atheism. All right. God bless you. Hope you're having a good week. Now on to the show. the show. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas episode 21. I'm Matt Fradd. If you could sit down with St. Thomas Aquinas over a pint of beer and ask him any one question, what would it be? In today's episode, we'll ask St. Thomas the question, what do you think of Islam?

Well, we're kicking things off with a bang in this season of Pints with Aquinas. Good to have you with us. By the way, this is the show where you and I pull up a bar stall next to the angelic doctor to discuss theology and philosophy. And today, like I already said, we're going to ask St. Thomas the question, what he thinks of Islam and Muhammad and the foundations of Islam. That's what we're going to be talking about today. Thomas has some interesting things to say in the Summa Contra Gentiles. I'll tell you what that is in a moment. has some interesting things to say in the Summa Contra Gentiles. I'll tell you what that is in a moment. I also want to say in this podcast why no Christian should consider Muhammad a prophet. And then at the end of the episode, I want to suggest three resources that you can look into to learn more about Islam and to learn more in order to dialogue better with your friends who

might be Muslim. This is not a full-blown apologetic against Islam. So if that's what you're looking for, this isn't it. But we are going to hear about what St. Thomas says. So let's look at that in the, as I say, in the Summa Contra Gentiles. You probably haven't heard of that, or at least you may have, but we haven't talked about it before. This is basically a work of St. Thomas Aquinas' in Latin, it means against the Gentiles. So it's really a work of apologetics. Here's what it says on the back of the book that I'm holding. Vesuma Contra Gentiles is not merely the only complete summary of Christian doctrine that St. Thomas has written. Now you'll remember, by the way, yeah, just side note, not reading the book

anymore, but you remember I told you, and we talked about this in the very first episode of Pints with Aquinas. If you haven't listened to it, go and listen to it. We talk about who St. Thomas is. We talk about the Summa Theologiae. Anyway, in the Summa Theologiae, you remember Thomas was writing it, and it was towards the end of his life, and he had a vision. life and he had a vision. And he said to a fellow friar, a fellow Dominican friar, that after what he had seen, all of his writings appeared to him as straw. And so he didn't end up finishing the Summa Theologiae. And so one of his brothers had to go back into Thomas's old writings in order to supplement the Summa Theologiae to make it finished. That's why we have the supplemental section. But that's why it says here that this is the only complete summary

of Christian doctrine, the Summa Contra Gentiles, okay, that Thomas has ever written. It goes on to say, but it's also a creative and even revolutionary work of Christian apologetics composed at the precise moment when Christian thought needed to be intellectually creative in order to master and assimilate the intelligence and wisdom of the Greeks and the Arabs. So in this Summa Contra Gentiles, Aquinas works to save and purify the thought of the Greeks and the Arabs in the higher light of Christian revelation, confident that all that has been rational in the ancient philosophers and their followers would become more rational within Christianity. Isn't that a cool line? So when we invite our Muslim brothers and sisters or our Protestant brothers and sisters,

no offense to those brothers and sisters listening to me, but obviously, you know, as a Catholic, I want to invite you into the fullness of the truth, which I believe to be found in Catholicism. But in the light of Christian revelation, you know, we're becoming more rational. So before we talk about what St. Thomas said, let's just say a few words of praise to our Muslim brothers and sisters. When I used to live in San Diego, my driver who would drive me to the airport whenever I would go on trips was a Muslim and just an awesome dude. Just very kind, but just also I remember being so impressed by his commitment to the fasts and the daily prayers. And I think we as Christians can learn a lot from our Muslim friends in that regard.

My wife and I were just in New York City several weeks ago. And when we were pulling into the airport, just behind this small building where the taxi drivers would hang out, there were about six or seven guys who were praying on mats, you know, bowing, doing their prayers. And I just thought, man, that is awesome. We can really learn a lot from our Muslim friends. Okay. That said, Muhammad, if you're a Christian, you cannot say that he's a prophet. I think sometimes Christians, we say things like this because we want to be nice or, you know, we want to say, well, we have so much in common. We have some things in common. Yeah, that's true. We believe that there's one God. We believe that God is not the universe, right? So Muslims aren't pantheists. They believe in a God that's, you know,

distinguished or separate from the world. God revealed himself to mankind. We believe these things, but that does not make Muhammad a prophet. A prophet speaks for God. In the Old Testament, if you spoke for God and you got it wrong, you were sometimes killed. Okay. So sometimes we say prophet in the more kind of loose sense. Oh, he had some nice things to say that were true. Look, but in this sense of the word prophet, in the biblical sense, we cannot say that he was a prophet. So let me just share with you three reasons why before we read what St. Thomas Aquinas has to say. But I tell you what, before we get to those three things, let's take a very short break and we'll be back in just a moment. My name is Gomer and I'm the co-host of catching foxes foxes

i would like to tell you about something more important than my podcast pints with aquinas pint pint pints with aquinas matt frad actually wrote a book on 50 plus deep thoughts from the angelic doctor. Pints with Aquinas. Here's the deal. Beer is easily lovable, but medieval monastic philosophers, they can be quite intimidating. Yet in this short pithy book,

and I don't use that word often. In fact, I never use the word pithy, but I'm going to use it here and you're going to agree with me. Matt Fradd made the greatest mind in the history of the church as easily accessible as your favorite beer. You'll laugh, you'll cry, well, you won't cry,

but you'll laugh and you'll discover that this old school philosopher's wisdom is just as relevant today as it was back then. So do yourself a favor. Get a copy of this enlightening, pithy little book from Amazon right now. And when it arrives, pour yourself a frothy pint and dig in.

You'll be glad you did. All right, back to the show. I've got the Quran in front of me. I was in the Middle East several years back preaching at a Christian event. It was actually really neat. While I was speaking, proclaiming the gospel, the Muslim call for prayer was blasting over the speakers right next to me. It was a prophet. And we can go a step further and even say that Islam is a perversion of Judaism and Christianity. In no way is it a fulfillment or a helpful addition to. All right. So here we go here. And this is from Surah 9 verse 30. It says,

the Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah and the Christians say thera is the son of Allah, and the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their statement from their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. May Allah destroy them. How are they deluded? So you have right here, Muhammad, Islam, saying that Jesus is not the son of God. All right, let's look at another one. This is Surah 4, verse 157.

Now, here we could show other verses as well, but here we see it looks like Muhammad, because I don't believe he received the revelation from the angel, obviously. And so I think this is him just cobbling pieces together. He seems to totally misunderstand what Christians mean by the Trinity. And he thinks that Mary is a part of the Trinity. Listen to what he says. Here we are, Surah 4, verse 116. And beware the day when Allah will say, Oh, Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, take me and my mother as deities besides Allah? He will say, exalted are you.

It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, you would have known it. You know what is within myself and I do not know what is within yourself. Indeed, it is you who is knower of the unseen. So, Muhammad gets the Trinity wrong there. And then finally, Muhammad denies the crucifixion of Christ. He denies at least the death, all right, of Christ. Now, listen to this. It says this. This is in Surah 4, 157. Quote, and for their saying, indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah. And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but another was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it,

except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him for certain. Now, what's interesting is like this is the one indisputable fact that even skeptics like Bart Ehrman recognize, right? So, Bart Ehrman thinks a lot of the gospels were poorly written, poorly handed down, that they are not reliable accounts of the life of Christ and the apostles. But even someone like him that says this is obviously an indisputable fact, we know that Jesus Christ was crucified. So again, i don't mean to come off too like heavy-handed here but to say that muhammad was a prophet you're saying that he's a prophet and he prophesied that jesus christ wasn't the son of god and he prophesied he said thinks that the trinity includes mary that christians believe that not Not true. And also

that he never died. He was never crucified. So we can't say that Muhammad was a prophet. Now, this isn't to say that Muslims aren't and can't be fantastic, beautiful people, even very beautiful, peaceful people. Okay. This has nothing to do whatever about terrorism. And I think sometimes as Christians, we're reluctant to examine the claims of Islam and reject them and show why they're false because maybe we're afraid that somebody will say, you know, we're Islamophobic or something. This has nothing to do with that. This just has to do with the claims of Muhammad and the Islamic religion. Here is what Thomas Aquinas has to say. Now, this is in the first book of the Summa Contra Gentiles, chapter 6, verse 4. He says this, quote,

Muhammad seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free reign to carnal pleasure. to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration. For a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms, which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise man, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the

beginning. Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching. Through whose numbers Muhammad forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms. Nor do divine pronouncements on the part of preceding prophets offer him any witness. On the contrary, he perverts almost all the testimonies of the Old and New Testaments by making them into fabrications of his own, as can be seen by anyone who examines his law. It was therefore a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place any faith in his words believe foolishly.

said in the beginning, I want to suggest three resources if you're interested in learning more about the Islamic faith and how we as Christians can respond to our Muslim brothers and sisters. Now, by the way, I hope it goes without saying, obviously, I don't think we should begin with Aquinas' passage. It's kind of insulting. It might be true, but it's insulting. So we should begin really just by looking at maybe the points of agreement, but then also where we diverge and then focus on those issues. Now, here are the three things I'd suggest. Two of them are free, by the way. Okay, so the first one is I would say you need to read the Quran. If we're going to engage with another faith, especially if we're going to criticize that faith, we should at least do them the honor of reading their inspired texts. Now, sometimes this isn't possible. I'm not saying that a Muslim or an atheist ought to read the

entire Bible before they have any merit in dialoguing with us, but the Quran is relatively short, shorter than the New Testament. It's quite an easy read. And I think that would gain you some points of merit if you are engaging with a Muslim friend. So I will put a link up on this podcast description where you can listen to it for free online. I'll also show you where you can download an audio book if you'd prefer that. The second resource I want to suggest is a great little book called 20 Answers Islam by Catholic Answers Press. I did a book, I told you already, I'm going to give this away next week, 20 Answers Atheism. This is 20 Answers Islam. And what it does is just goes

through 20 common questions about Islam and responds to them. So you can check that out. The third and final resource that I want to suggest that you get is a debate that took place between Dr. Peter Kreeft and Robert Spencer. Now, I don't think Peter Kreeft won this debate. Let me just leave it at that. I don't think Peter Kreeft won this debate. Let me just leave it at that. But the name of the video is, is the only good Muslim a bad Muslim, right? And that, of course, is Robert Spencer's contention,

that if it's a good Muslim, it's because he's not following the Quran. Now, you may or may not disagree with that. That's not the point, but I think you'll find the dialogue interesting. You've got two fantastic people, both very intelligent, who know their stuff, who are dialoguing back and forth on this. It's an interesting debate. It's a friendly debate. So those would be the three things that I suggest. So God bless you guys. As I said in the beginning of this podcast, please rate this week.

If you rate, I am going to draw 10 names randomly of the people who donate, who donated. That'd be cool too, but no, I'm not talking about donation, just talking about rating, reviewing. And if you review the podcast, as I say, I'm going to choose 10 of you this week. Next week, I'll announce who the winners are and I will send you my ebook, 20 Answers Atheism. Until next week, may God bless you. See you later, guys. To carry you, to carry you. And I would give my whole life to carry you, to carry you. And I would give my whole life to carry you.