Pints With Aquinas - 233: Can Christians Lose Their Salvation?

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

Today on PWA we'll take a look at what Sacred Scripture and Thomas Aquinas has to say about the possibility of Christians losing their salvation. SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints  Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS  Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

Hello and welcome to Pints with Aquinas. My name is Matt Fradd. If you're new, it's lovely to have you. Pints with Aquinas is the show that tries to explain and defend the Catholic faith from a Thomistic perspective. Do us a favor and click subscribe and that bell button and that will make me happy. I guess I should say something about this shirt. I'm a little embarrassed actually. I went and clicked record earlier and I realized that I was wearing this Australian shirt. So I don't know what's going on here. These are kangaroos. These, I think, are fighter jets of some description.

So, you know, I don't know if you like it or not. You can let me know. But either way, there you go. Today, I want to look at the question, can a Christian lose his salvation? So kudos to those of you who are in the chat, because I think this is something that many of us perhaps don't want to talk about. Just last week, I recorded an episode on will there be many who are saved? And that was a difficult thing to talk about, because the Gospels can be really difficult. And it was surprising to me how many people in the comment section would say things like, well, that's just not the kind of God I could believe in, or I just can't, my God wouldn't

do something like that. These very emotional responses. And it reminded me that as Christians, we really have to be subordinate, subservient to the Word of God. Not what we think God would do, not what we would do if we were God. Not what we think God would do, not what we would do if we were God. If we are Christians, we have to hold fast to the Word of God, whether we like it or not. St. Augustine in the fourth century said, if we only accept those things that we like in the Gospels, then what we're believing isn't the Word of God, but really ourselves and our preferences. And obviously,

that's not something we want to do. So in today's episode, I'm going to have a look at what Thomas Aquinas has to say about Christians, whether they can suffer the eternal punishments of hell. I will then take five questions from our patrons, including a question on how to prepare for Advent. Advent is coming up soon in the West, in the East. It's already begun, but that's okay. It's a different topic.

And then finally, in today's episode, just for fun, I wanted to share with you seven hilarious 2020 memes. I did a live stream the other day with my wife, and we looked up a couple of 2020 memes, and they just made me laugh. So I thought I'll share that with you today, 2020 memes. So be sure to stick around for that. Also today at 1.30 p.m., I'm going to be interviewing Dr. Ralph Martin on his new book, which I just spent the weekend reading and completing, called A Church in Crisis. It's going to be a fascinating discussion.

We're going to be talking about Pope Francis, the bishops, the scandals, what Catholics are to do, these sorts of things. So 1.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, I'll be interviewing Dr. Ralph Martin about that. So hope you can join us. Listen, I wanted to tell you about Exodus 90 before we get underway. Exodus 90 is a ascetical program for men, basically for 90 days. You and a small group of brothers read through the book of Exodus and you pray more, like maybe an hour a day. You give up things you don't want to give up, like alcohol, snacks between meals. You take on things you don't want to take on, like cold showers. I did it last year. It was really difficult, not going to lie, but it really is for men who

are wanting to take their Christian faith to the next level. So go down into the description below and you'll see a link to exodus90.com slash Matt Fradd. And there you can join, even just put your name down to learn more information. But we're going to be, I say we, the men who are starting Exodus 90 will be beginning on January 4th, which is in 48 days and 13 hours from now. Why? So they can finish it on Easter Sunday. So if you've been wanting to take your Christian faith to the next level as a man, if you're tired of the sort of mamby-pamby Christianity that's sometimes expected of you, quote unquote, or taught to you from even the pulpit, and you really want to get serious about it, go to exodus90.com slash Matt Fradd, exodus90.com slash Matt Fradd. That link again is in the

description below. So go there to learn more about it. All right. Now, today, I was looking through the Summa, and I was trying to find whether or not Aquinas dealt with the question, can a Christian lose his salvation? And I found something similar to it, but not it exactly. Maybe I missed it. And so if I did, someone can refer me to it in the comment section. But I think it is interesting that this idea of once saved, always saved, the idea that a Christian upon becoming a Christian can never again lose his salvation, really is a novel idea. The first person to espouse it was John Calvin in the mid-16th century. Even Martin Luther himself rejected it. Prior to Calvin, the unanimous, I would say, consent of the early Christians was that a person is capable of losing his salvation by committing mortal sin. The idea of mortal sin, like being a sin that leads me to hell, essentially, as opposed to a small sin, quote unquote, or a sin that I do reflexively or accidentally.

This is something, again, that was believed unanimously by the early church. So it's interesting that Aquinas didn't kind of, from what I could see, doesn't actually address it, that question specifically, but he does address a different question, whether the punishment of Christians is brought to an end by the mercy of God. Okay, so this comes from the supplement section, question 99. And so that's what we'll take a look at. And so the idea is, some people were saying, okay, well, fair enough. For some people, hell might be eternal, okay, but not for Christians, surely. And so this does get to the same point of like,

eventually all Christians will be saved. So I want to go through what he has to say here, and then perhaps respond to some objections some of our Protestant brothers might have. Certainly not all Protestants believe in this idea of once saved, always saved. Okay, so let's read the main... Well, why don't we go through the objections? I like doing this, because Aquinas sets himself objections and then responds. Why don't I show you what I mean by that, just in case you're not terribly sure about how Aquinas does this. Right. So this is an article by Thomas Aquinas.

And for those of you who aren't aware, you'll see up here what he does first of all is he sets himself objections. And it's often said that Aquinas presents himself the best objections he can to the position he wants to make before responding. Okay, so that's what that is. Those are the objections he can think of for the proposition, Christians don't suffer eternal torment in hell, say. Here you have what's called the sed contra, which is Latin for on the contrary. And this is where Aquinas appeals to some authority, usually scripture or a church father. Here is his respondio. So this is his main response to the question. And then here you have his responses to the three objections he made earlier. So it's

almost like a pre-packaged debate in that way. It's really cool. So why don't we go through this? We'll go through the three objections and then the three responses, because these objections are rather short. Objection one, it would seem that at least the punishment of Christians is brought to an end by the mercy of God. For he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Now this applies to every Christian. Therefore, all Christians will at length be saved. Also notice how Aquinas writes in syllogisms. A syllogism has, well, it's a deductive argument with two premises and a conclusion. It's like the classical one is, all men are mortal, Socrates is a man, therefore

Socrates is mortal. So even when he's arguing against his own position, he argues in this very logically airtight kind of manner, at least as far as how it's structured. So Aquinas' response to this is, Our Lord speaks there of formed faith that worketh by love, Galatians 5.6, wherein whosoever dieth shall be saved. But to this faith not only is the error of unbelief opposed, but also any mortal sin whatsoever. In other words, if by faith we mean somebody who perseveres to the end in charity does not commit a mortal sin, then sure, but that's not often what happens, or sometimes that isn't what happens when it comes to Christians. Here's the second objection. Further, it is written in John 6 55, he that eateth my body and drinketh my blood hath eternal life.

Now, this is the meat and drink whereof Christians partake in common. Therefore, all Christians will be saved. Fair enough, right? If Jesus says, eat my flesh, drink my blood, you know, you'll have eternal life in you, then you won't be able to go to hell. Aquinas responds by saying, The saying of our Lord refers not to those who partake only sacramentally Aquinas responds by saying, which incorporation is the effect of the sacramental eating in those who approach worthily. Wherefore, so far as the power of the sacrament is concerned, it brings us to eternal life,

although sin may deprive us of that fruit even after we have received worthily. And the final objection, if any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss. He's quoting 1 Corinthians here. But he himself shall be saved, it says, yet so as by fire. What are we to do with that verse? The objector continues, where it is a question of those who have the foundation of the Christian faith. Therefore, all such persons will be saved in the end. Let's see if I can find that verse specifically so I can look it up. Yes, let's see. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to, but he gives you the crux of it there. Here's how Aquinas responds. And it is interesting. He's about to point to purgatory,

which is interesting because Catholic apologists will often point to this verse in 1 Corinthians 3.15 to say this is in reference to purgatory. Aquinas replies, in this passage of the apostle, the foundation denotes formed faith, upon which whosoever shall build venial sin shall suffer loss, because he will be punished for them by God, yet he himself shall be saved in the end by fire, either of temporal tribulation or the punishment of purgatory, which will be after death. When we think of purgatory, we can think of it as far as sanctification, and we can think of it as far as a sort of satisfaction for our sins. Under the first model, you could just certainly think of purgatory as being the final rush of one's sanctification. If you will be saved and yet are attached to sin, you need to be sanctified since nothing unholy shall enter heaven. But it's also the case, and we read about this in Hebrews, that God does punish us for our faults, even after we are, the faults that we commit after baptism. We are punished

for them, because what father who loves his child will not discipline him? And so here Aquinas says that this can be referring either to temporal tribulation in this earth now, or the punishment one will receive in purgatory, which will be after death. Let's do a whole episode on purgatory later, because there's a lot to get into there. But let's go to his said contra. Again, this is where he appeals to authority. It is written in 1 Corinthians 6, 9, Here we go again with the syllogism. I love it. Now, some Christians are unjust. Therefore, Christians will not all come to the kingdom of God, and consequently, they will be punished forever.

All right, so look at that syllogism. The unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God. We're taught that in 1 Corinthians 6, 9. But, second premise, some Christians are unjust, right? Therefore, some Christians shall not possess the kingdom of God. Further, it is written, 2 Peter 2, verse 21, It had been better for them not to have known the way of justice than after they have known it to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them. Now those who know not the way of truth will be

punished forever. Therefore Christians who have turned back after knowing it will also be punished forever. We're going to spend some time on that chapter and verse after we get through this respondio from Aquinas. So here's his main response, okay? If somebody were to say, okay, if you're a Christian, you will be saved. Maybe you have to suffer, you know, in hell or somewhere beforehand, but you're definitely going to be saved. There's no way a Christian can go to hell forever. Here's what he would say. According to Augustine, there have been some who predicted a delivery from eternal punishment not for all men, but only for Christians, although they stated the matter in different ways. For some said that whoever received the

sacraments of faith would be immune from eternal punishment. But this is contrary to the truth, since some receive the sacraments of faith and yet have not faith, without which it is possible to please God. Hebrews 11.6 Wherefore others said that those alone will be exempt from eternal punishment who have received the sacraments of faith and professed the Catholic faith. But against this, it would seem to be that at one time, some people profess the Catholic faith and afterwards abandon it. And these are deserving not of a lesser but of a greater punishment since according to 2 Peter 2 verse 21,

it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice than after they have known it to turn back. Moreover, it is clear that heresiarchs, that is the leaders of heresies, sorry, heresiarchs, who renounce the Catholic faith and invent new heresies, sin more grievously than those who have conformed to some heresy from the first. And therefore, some have maintained that those alone are exempt from eternal punishment, who persevere to the end in the Catholic faith. However guilty they may have been of other crimes, but this is clearly contrary to holy writ, for it is written in James chapter 2 verse 20, faith without works is dead. And Matthew 7 21, not everyone that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven,

but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven. And in many other passages, Holy Scripture threatens sinners with eternal punishment. Consequently, those who persevere in the faith unto the end will not all be exempt from eternal punishment, unless in the end they prove to be free from other crimes. They prove to be free from other crimes. I want to point out again, right, that last week I did an episode on will there be many who are saved? And I pointed to our Lord's words upon being asked, will many be saved? He says that narrow is the way to life and only few find it. And wide is the path to destruction and many find it. We concluded from that, that many people will go to hell. I don't like that idea. I would love it if, say,

universalism were true. And maybe I shouldn't love it. And maybe the only reason I love it is because I'm not a formed enough Christian yet. But I think it is so bloody important that we be obedient to the words of Christ. I mean, you know people who twist the words, as St. Peter says of Scripture, to their own destruction. They'll seek to try to justify homosexual acts or fornication or theft in certain circumstances. I mean, we all know Christians who just, well, we don't all know Christians, but I've heard of Christians who have abandoned their spouse and have committed adultery. And upon being questioned about it said, God wants me to be happy. It is so important that if we are to be faithful Christians who are to be saved, that we be obedient to the word of God. Even if we don't like what it says, We have to pray for the grace to accept it,

rather than to throw it out and reinterpret it in a way that suits our fancy. Okay, let's take a look at maybe what some objections might be to this, and what some responses might be. First of all, I said it earlier, I'll say it again, not all Christians, not all Protestant Christians say that all Christians will be saved and they cannot lose their salvation. Many Protestants recognize what Holy Scripture says, that a man or a woman can lose their salvation. But when somebody comes to you, maybe a Protestant, and they'll say that, look, Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your lips that Jesus is the Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Not might, but will be. You know, what do you have to say about that? a game of scriptural verse ping pong can ensue, where the Catholic or the Protestant or whoever is trying to show why one can lose their salvation says, what about this verse? And the Protestant hits back, well, what about this verse? And we don't really go anywhere. I think it's important to recognize that scripture speaks of salvation as a past tense event. Yes, it does. But it also speaks of salvation as a present tense event. And it also speaks of scripture as a future tense event. Okay. So I've already mentioned Romans 10, 9, where salvation is spoken about as a past tense event. Let me give you another one. Ephesians chapter two, verses eight through nine. For by grace, you have been saved through faith. Amen. But it also speaks

about salvation as a present tense, such as when St. Paul in Philippians chapter 2, 12 says, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That's a present tense way of talking about salvation. Work it out now in fear and trembling. It also speaks about salvation in a future tense event, future tense event, where St. Paul says in Romans chapter 13, 11, our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. Okay. So salvation is a process. When I come and am baptized, right, and am saved by Christ, this is not due to any good on my part. It is not due to any works that I have performed. Salvation, when it is given, is given freely. It is a free gift. Okay, but I can abandon that salvation. I can turn my back on the salvation Christ has offered to me and that I perhaps at one point accepted.

Now, at this point, someone might say, okay, but what about Romans 8.38? In Romans 8.38, we read this beautiful passage where St. Paul says, For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ our Lord. Amen, amen, amen. This is true and beautiful and good. But notice what Paul did not say. Paul did not say, neither fornication, nor adultery, nor drunkenness, nor murder will separate us from the love of God. He was well aware that if we choose to engage in these sins, we renounce Christ. So it's true that nothing in all creation can separate me from Christ. And it's true that I can have a moral certainty of my salvation. But I can choose to reject Christ, right? I can choose to jump from the Father's hand, as it were. In 1 Corinthians 6,

verse 9 through 10, Paul says something pretty sobering. He says, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Now, keep in mind, whenever we read these scripture passages, these are letters that St. Paul is writing to the different Christians in the different churches. He's not writing these for unbelievers who are outside of the church. At least first and foremost, he's writing them for Christians. So he's telling Christians that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. not inherit the kingdom of God. Do not be deceived, he says, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy,

nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And so to go back to that argument that Aquinas made at the beginning of his said contra, right? 1 Corinthians chapter 6, the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God. Now, some Christians are unjust. Therefore, some Christians will not inherit the kingdom of God. Okay, there are many other verses that we can point to to show that a Christian can lose his salvation. For example, in John chapter 15, we read, and this is at the Last Supper, that we are to remain in Christ's love. How are we to do that? Well, Christ tells us, by keeping his commandments. He then says that if we do not remain in his love, namely by not keeping his commandments, we will be, and here's the quote, cast forth as a branch and wither. And the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.

from the vine just goes to show that at one point the branches were attached to the vine. In other words, we can be Christians in union with Christ, accept his salvation. But if we don't persevere in his love, Christ tells us we'll be cut off and thrown into the fire. What about Romans chapter 11, 22? Note the kindness and severity of God, severity towards those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off. Here we go again, right? We have this person, this kindness towards us. We have been incorporated into Christ, as it says in Colossians.

He's transferred us from the dominion of darkness into the dominion of light. But if we don't continue in his kindness, we will be severed from Christ. We could read so much more. What about Galatians chapter 5, starting in verse 2? Look, says St. Paul, I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. Again, who is he writing to? He's writing to Christians. He's telling them that they can sever themselves from Christ. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace.

For through the Spirit by faith we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision or uncircumcision counts for anything but only faith working through love. Paul also speaks about, not even Paul will speak about this absolute certainty of his own salvation as if he is incapable of falling away from Christ. In 1 Corinthians 9, verse 27, Paul again warns the Christians against being overconfident. He says, I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others, I myself should be disqualified. This is not the language of once saved, always saved. Now, twice in this Summa article, Thomas Aquinas refers to 2 Peter 2, verse 20. So I want to read this for you now. Again, try to, you and I both have to be obedient to Christ, obedient to the Word of God, not obedient to what certain heretical Christians

teach us, like Father Richard Rohr, perhaps, or our local pastor, or what we heard when we were a kid. You and I as Christians have to be obedient to the word of God. And the word of God says this in 2 Peter 2, verse 20 through 22. Speaking of Christians, couldn't be any more plain here, right? For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They are again entangled in them and overcome. The last state has become worse for them than the first. He's talking about Christians, of course, here. He's talking about people who have escaped the defilements of the world

through the knowledge of Christ. And then he says, but if they get entangled in these serious sins and then are overcome by them so that they don't repent and they fall away peter says the last state has become worse for them than the first now the first state that is to say what it would have been like if they had never come to christ was eternal damnation But he's saying that where they are now, having come to Christ and then have been overcome by their sin, is worse than the first state, which was going to be eternal damnation. That's not a good place to be in. The last state has become worse

for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them. The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing itself, returns to wallow in the mire. self returns to wallow in the mire. Now, let's ask the question, can a Christian have an assurance of his salvation? Yes, in a way we can. We cannot have an absolute assurance in our salvation, but we can have an assurance of our salvation. If you read the sixth session at the Council of Trent, you'll note that it never said we can't have an assurance of our salvation. If you read the sixth session at the Council of Trent, you'll note that it never said we can't have an assurance of our salvation. But it merely said that we can't have an absolute certainty.

And I think this is for two reasons. I mentioned this last week. You know, one reason is that we might be just deluding ourselves entirely. The second is that we may fall away from Christ. We don't know what tomorrow holds. We don't know whether we will apostatize or sin gravely and not repent. So if you were to ask me, like Matt Fratt, are you certain of your salvation? I would say, yeah, I am certain of my salvation. Christ is my righteousness. He is the mountain on which I am standing, right? I have

been saved through baptism. He's continuing to save me and I am standing, right? I have been saved through baptism. He's continuing to save me, and I have hope, right? So it's a certainty that comes from hope that I will be saved. But I can't know that for sure, because I can't know whether or not I will fall away. But I can hope, right? And Aquinas does talk about this elsewhere, this kind of certainty that hope gives us, that He will be faithful to his promises and that he will never permit me to undergo something without, you know, like a temptation, without providing a way out. But the idea that you can become a Christian and not be damned is just not true. That you can be Catholic, right? You've been baptized, you've received sacraments, and therefore not be damned is just not true. That you can be Catholic, right? You've been baptized, you've received sacraments,

and therefore not be damned is not true. I presume Judas received the sacraments. I mean, he received Eucharist, presumably, and baptism, presumably, maybe by Christ. That's a longer conversation. But he was certainly one of the 12. And yet Christian tradition usually says that Judas was damned. Now, as I mentioned a moment ago, towards actually the beginning of this episode,

historically, this is a very novel idea. Once saved, always saved. And I pointed out that the church fathers unanimous, right, that someone can lose their salvation. In the first century, the Didache, commonly known as the teaching of the 12 apostles, had this to say. And again, is it scripture? No, but it was highly revered and obviously very early. and I think is illustrative of what the earliest Christians believed. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your soul. For the whole time of your faith will not profit you if you be not made complete in the last times. And here's another short quotation from Justin Martyr from his work against heresies. Eternal fire was prepared for him who voluntarily departed from God and for all who

without repentance persevere in apostasy. Now, none of this is meant to lead us to despair. In fact, despair, despairing of God's salvation is also a mortal sin. So just there you are. But to recognize that we have a God who desires all of us to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. But we have also been told that if we do not persevere in the commandments of the Lord and the good works of the Lord, we, in a sense, cut ourselves off and can be damned. This is why it is so important that we repent of our sins from our heart with weeping and tears, if God gives us that ability, and receive the salvation that He wants for us. I was thinking the other day that I think one of the reasons that the cross of Christ has lost its power, not objectively, but subjectively, like to our minds,

is that we've lost our horror for sin. Like that sin is the most horrible thing that can ever happen. The most awful thing you can do is to sin. And this is why confession would do you more good, say, than an exorcism. Because in an exorcism, a devil may have your body, but in serious sin, the devil has our soul, as it were. And so confession is so important. So if you have been skipping Mass on Sundays, if you've been involved in fornication or theft or drunkenness or these sorts of things that Paul tells us about. I would say as a brother who also goes to confession on a regular basis, to get to the sacrament of confession and to confess manfully these sins, not to make excuses for them, but to condemn yourself

so that you can receive the salvation that Christ wants for you. You can receive the forgiveness that Christ wants for you. Okay, what I would like to do now is share five questions that have come in from our patrons. And then after that, as I mentioned, just for fun, because this has been a pretty heavy episode, I want to look at seven memes about 2020, which I found rather, rather, well, hilarious. Let's just say that. Scott Seltzer, thank you for being a patron, Scott. He says, why aren't many Protestants aware of Christ's descent into hell and the freeing of the dead? How can I explain this? Well, I don't know if it's true whether or not Protestants aren't aware of this.

But I will let you know, Scott, that I've done a whole episode on this. Let's see, episode 90. It's called, Why Did Jesus Descend Into Hell? And Aquinas makes some key distinctions here. Christ did not descend into the hell of the damned. He descended into the abode of the dead, into Abraham's bosom, as it were, for those who were waiting Christ's resurrection. But you might want to check out that episode. It's called Why Did Jesus Descend Into Hell, episode 90. You could go to pintswithaquinas.com, type that in, or just find it on your podcast app. Because Aquinas actually gives, because you asked, how can I explain this? Aquinas actually gives like five different reasons, I think. Let's see, maybe four reasons why Christ did this. So you asked for reasons. I mean, Aquinas gives them, so you can check those out. Thanks a lot, Scott. This next question comes

from Charles Finn. Charles says, hi, Matt. This just happened to me for the first time. I was watching a series and out of a door, I guess he means video series or Netflix series, and out of the door pops a way too obviously trans actor, a man playing the role of a woman because he considers himself a woman. I stopped watching and thought, what to do as a Catholic? There are multiple possible contexts to this too. When watching alone is one thing, but then your friends will ask about the movie. But then with friends or family, potentially non-Catholic, what? Get up and leave? That can't be right. And then with kids, pre-filter all movies shown at home, or allow some if accompanied with proper explanation?

We'd love to hear your take on this. Thanks. Cheers. Okay. So I think the first thing to point out is if we were never meant to subject ourselves to stories that contained immoral actions, then we wouldn't be able to read the Bible, of all. I mean the death of the son of man is the most egregious thing that's ever taken place on this earth. So that doesn't seem to be able to do. You know I mean there's horrific accounts of rape and murder and things like this that take place in the Bible and yet we read the Bible. You can think of other examples of stories that contain immoral behavior obviously. We watch these all the time. They aren't necessarily a problem. So that would be the first thing to point out, that just because a story contains

something immoral, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be watching it or reading it. Think of the great works of, I was going to say Western literature, but let's be honest, I love the Russians. So, I mean, you couldn't read Crime and Punishment, for example. You couldn't read Brothers Karamazov or any of these things, and that doesn't seem right. But I think it is important to point out that there are powerful pressure groups that are trying to make homosexuality and transgenderism both attractive, normal, and widespread. normative, normal, and widespread. Disney recently apologized, saying that it hasn't done enough, you know, to portray gay and transgender characters in its cartoons. And so we'll be sure to be doing that in the future. So I think it's a manly and courageous and praiseworthy thing if you were to say, look, I'm tired of being preached to by the world, okay, by those who want to push these ideologies. And so therefore,

I'm just not going to watch it. I think that's a cool thing to do. Good for you. Even if it has good elements, choosing to spend your time reading other books or watching other movies, I think is a excellent choice that you could make if you wanted to. Now, you point out what about friends? What if I'm in the room with friends and this happens? Well, I've actually got up in movie theaters with friends and have left. When I thought that what was being portrayed on scene was immoral and not just immoral, but the immorality was being glorified, you see. So I actually stood up and left.

I think it's a fine thing. Let your friends be offended. Sorry, I'm not going to subject myself to this. Done. You know, that's an option. You talk about children. Well, I would highly recommend this website. It's called commonsensemedia.org. Let me show it to you.

I'm not affiliated with them or anything like that, but you can type in a movie. Like let's say, for example, I wanted to watch The Queen's Gamut. I don't think I do, but let's have a look here. It says here, like here you go. So you can look down here, positive messages. Well, it has like one out of five. Well, what about sexuality? It has two. So you click here. A few scenes of couples in bed having sex. Nudity implied, but not graphic. Yep. So I'm not interested in that. So I'm not going to watch that. Now you might decide to. I'm not going to watch that. I'm not going to expose myself to that. And I certainly bloody won't expose my children to that. So this is a very good website, commonsensemedia.org. And this is something like if my

children want to watch, oops, that's my cheat sheet there. If my children want to watch this type of media, and they ask about a movie they haven't seen before, I'll go to Common Sense Media, type it in and then be like, yep, not going to happen, you know, or maybe, yeah, okay, we can watch this together. All right, so that would be my take on it uh this next question comes from catholic woodworker who says what will you and your family be doing for advent what recommendations do you have for us to use that time well in preparation for christmas so i i kind of mentioned earlier that advent in a sense has started for us in the eastern church because saint phil's fast, so it begins, well, yesterday. Advent starts on the 29th of November. What will we be doing? Well, I think we'll be definitely fasting from some things as a family. We're going to come up with a few things that we're going to be choosing not to do. Maybe we'll

choose to do. We actually haven't come up with a kind of solid set yet. Maybe we'll choose to pray the rosary together as a family every night. Not sure. But there's one thing I want to tell you about, and I'm really excited about this. I went through the works of Thomas Aquinas and took out sections of his texts that talk about the incarnation, the dual natures of Christ, the mother of Christ, Christmas, and these sorts of things. Like Aquinas has a lot to say on whether the star over Bethlehem was a real star and things like that. And I've actually come up with daily meditations for you guys, for patrons.

So that's one thing you could do. If you go to patreon.com slash Matt Fradd and give $10 or more a month, you get a bunch of free stuff in return, signed books, a car magnet, just available this month and other things. But you'll also get available to this ebook that I've put together. So every day you can spend like three to five minutes reading something from

Thomas Aquinas on the incarnation. And not only have I done that, but I've recorded the talks and have put Gregorian chant behind them. And so every day you can just open up your Patreon app and listen to me reading you a section from Thomas Aquinas having to do again with the incarnation, Christ, his humanity, his divinity, etc. And so that could be one way to prepare for Advent. So I'll be talking more about that over on Patreon soon. But there you go. Okay. Marcus James asks, Hi, Matt.

I have two unrelated questions. First, what was the prayer life between you and Cameron like when you first got married and how has it evolved over time? My fiance and I are huge fans of the show in Pints with Aquinas. Pints with Aquinas is in part responsible for my fiance becoming Catholic back in Easter 2018, glory to Jesus Christ. And you say, second, have you considered joining the Knights of Columbus? So let me answer that second question first. No, I haven't considered it, and I'm not interested in joining the Knights of Columbus. That's great if you are. It just doesn't appeal to me at all. First, what was my prayer life like between Cameron and me? Well, certainly we had a lot

more time to pray prior to having kids. I think a lot of the time we might go on rosary walks or something like that. We'll go spend some time in adoration. By no means am I holding ourselves up as examples of prayer, you know, how to pray. But this is just what we did, you know. How do we pray now? Well, we pray with our kids, which is usually a lot more difficult, a lot more rowdier. We'll pray at night and pray at morning, and the kids will, you know, do their best. We prayed the rosary of the night. It was a little morning, and the kids will do their best. We prayed the rosary the other night.

It was a little difficult, but the kids did well. Also, the other night, my wife was feeling sick. She asked if I could pray for her. So I laid my hand on her and prayed that God would heal her and those sorts of things. But that's kind of it. That's how we pray now, I suppose. Okay, we have another question, and then after that question, I will share with you these seven hilarious memes about 2020, which made me laugh. This comes from Stephen

Bronzko. Forgive me if I got your name wrong. Stephen says, because the seven sacraments have developed and changed over time in terms of both theology and how they are administered, i.e. how confirmation and baptism were once united, how reconciliation used to be allowed only once in a person's life and for very serious sins only, how one's sins needed to be confessed publicly. How can we be certain that the seven sacraments in their current form were truly instituted by Christ and have existed from the very beginning of Christianity. All right, so there are two questions there, right? How do we know they were instituted by Christ? And how do we know that they've existed from the

very beginning of Christianity? Okay, so I guess that's one question. And then the other question was, how can we be certain that the seven sacraments in their current form? Okay, so I think there are two things we have to discuss. One is the form of the sacraments, to use a term loosely, how it looks, how it's being administered. And then there is the essence of the sacrament. And so I think it's, yeah, it's fair to say that the form, how it looks, how it is administered has changed over time. I mean, Holy Mass has changed over time. I mean, we have different forms of Holy Mass today. You can go to a Byzantine liturgy. You can go to a Dominican rite. You can go to the Novus Ordo. You can go to the extraordinary form of the Roman rite. These are different forms. And obviously, the first

Christians within the first several years, say, of Christ's ascension, their liturgy would have looked different to ours, but the essence was the same. And I would say the same thing is true of all the sacraments. So it is true that there was a time in Christian history where Christians were expected to confess their sins publicly to have the priest forgive them. Now that's something that happens privately, to have the priest forgive them. Now that's something that happens privately. Okay. But the essence is the same. Namely, Christ gave his priests the power to forgive sins. And this is something that they did then and they do now, even though the form be different. And so you say like, how can we be sure that these go back to the time of Christ, I would say that you can find the sacraments in the Bible.

I'm just looking to see, I bet we can find this online. But a couple of weeks ago, I gave a talk on this and I shared what Thomas Aquinas has to say. And in there, he shares how these are based in scripture. So not only, and we don't even have to go back to the church files, we can go back to Scripture. And so here, I've just like pulled up a list. Let me just kind of show it to you.

I don't even know what this website is, but so here we have here, right? Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Penance. So for example, as Catholics, we understand that Jesus gave the authority to forgive sins to the apostles. See Matthew 16, 19,

and John 20, 21 through 23, right? That would be an example. Healing of the sick or last rites or extreme unction. Healing the sick was a vital part of Jesus' ministry. The specific call for anointing is spelled out in James 5, 13 through 15, calling for prayers by the elders and anointing. Let me show you what this website is. I feel like I should probably give them a shout out, catechist.com. I'm not vouching for everything that's in here. Right. So I think we could say like, yeah, you can find these in the scriptures, and then you can also find a unanimous consent over these things in the early church. So that would be how we can be sure of it. And that it's okay if the sacrament looks a little different.

I mean, even today, you can go into a box and confess your sins to a priest and he in my Byzantine church and my priest lays his stole over my head and makes the sign of the cross. It looks different, but the essence is the same. All right, before we get to these seven very, very funny memes, I wanted to say thank you to Halo. Are you familiar with Halo? It is an app that helps you to pray. Halo.com slash Matt Fradd. H-A-L-L-O-W.com slash Matt Fradd. It's very well put together. Oh, look, there's my head. Oh, you know why it's my head? Because it's slash Matt Fradd. That's why. I just got excited that they were showing my face, and that's the reason. Anyway, you can pray the rosary. They'll lead you through Lectio Divina.

They have sleep stories. You can listen to, say, Father Mike Schmitz reading a scripture, some part of the Bible to you, these sorts of things. I think it's really great. So go to hallow.com slash Matt Fradd. I actually just read a sleep story for them on the Song of Songs, so if you're terribly interested, you can go listen to that. But it's really great. I mean, you can download it on your app. It's five stars on Apple and all that. And they have a free version of their app,

but they also have a bunch more content that you need to be a kind of subscriber in order to get. So you can sign up on their website, but if you go to hello.com slash Matt Fradd, you'll get a month for free. And so you can try out everything that's on the app before deciding whether or not to take the plunge and using it. But it's really fantastic. I've used it. My wife used it. We really like it. I think it's faithful to the church and really well done. hallow.com slash Matt Fradd. All right. Don't forget that I have an interview with Ralph Martin today on his new book, A Church in Crisis, and I cannot wait to do it. I just emailed him earlier and I said, please let me interview you for more than an hour. And he said, absolutely. So

it's going to be a very fun one. All right. Now listen, obviously 2020 has been difficult for many people. Obviously it's been more difficult for some than others. And in sharing these memes, I'm not trying to make light of the difficult situations that people have been in, especially those who have lost loved ones or those who have lost work. I mean, it's been bloody hard. But I think it's appropriate sometimes just to kind of sit back and be like, man, this was ridiculous. This was a hard year. And so i went online and i found seven memes that i think sum up how 2020 has gone for many of us so hopefully you have a sense of humor and let's take a look at some of these all right this first one i just love this lady's face every parent right now okay so no

matter how you as a parent are schooling your kids this is how you're looking apparently starting school in person starting school online homeschooling i guess we could say that those who have been homeschooling prior to covered prior to 2020 don't necessarily have this look on their face but i did think that that was really funny have this look on their face. But I did think that that was really funny. This one. 2020, every second. But wait, there's more. It just feels like there's more and more coming. I laughed out loud when I first saw that one. Here's the third. Since always, extroverts has, as it were, been leading introverts by the hand. Perhaps extroverts would just have us think that that's the case.

I'm not sure. But since 2020, I guess that's Leonardo leading Splinter, have been leading extroverts. This is definitely true. In my case, my wife is a textbook extrovert. Let me just kind of tell you how I know I'm an extrovert and how my wife and how I know my wife is in, sorry, how I know I'm an introvert and how I know my wife is an extrovert. Okay. When we go to a party, my wife is afraid to leave, but I think she secretly wonders how everyone will have fun without her. You know, she's a humble woman, but she actually thinks that, I think. Me, on the other hand, here's how I know I'm an introvert.

When I go to parties, I really like going to the bathroom because when I go to the bathroom, I get to be alone in a small room. Now, I get especially excited if there is a lock on the door that has a satisfying click. You know the type I mean? Click. It punches in, you know the door is locked, you can jiggle it, fine. But sometimes the lock does not have a satisfying click and you're just left to wonder whether or not it's locked, which is not conducive to a satisfying whatever it is you're about to do. But especially I like it when there is the slide lock and the punch lock with the satisfying click.

The point is, that's how I know I'm an introvert. Because I go in there just to, I don't even need to do anything in there. I just want to go and be alone for a while. Anyway. Okay, here is the fourth. If 2020 was a bag of chips, it would be orange juice and toothpaste. Sorry, I thought that was really funny. Okay, here's the fifth meme.

Question, if 2020 was a drink, what would it be? Answer, colonoscopy prep. All right. So that's good. Here is the sixth of the seven memes. Ah, yes. A nice cup of 2020. And then that happens. Those of you who are just listening to this as a podcast, this is making no sense to you, but I promise it's really funny. then here is the seventh which i really liked me being prepared for 2020 okay so for those of you who can't see there is a knight and he's wearing a helmet and he has a sword held above his shoulder and then it shows 2020 and there is an arrow going through that going through that thin space where his eyes ought to be.

I mean, this is funny for me because in 2020, I was trying to host the first Pints with Aquinas conference. I actually did do that in North Georgia. But in 2019, my plan was to hold it in Italy. We were going to where the Benedict monks of Nortia were to study Thomas Aquinas' commentary on St. John. We had sold out. We were going to do it. And then COVID happened.

And so we didn't do it. Anyway, I hope that gave you a laugh. Thank you so much for watching. I hope today's episode was great. I'd love to hear from you below what you had to say or what you think about what Thomas Aquinas had to say about Christians losing their salvation. How have you responded to people who have said, actually, the Bible says a Christian cannot lose their salvation? I would love to hear that. Also, again, for the third time, remember, I'm interviewing Dr. Ralph Martin later on today.

So please subscribe and click that bell button. That way you'll be sure not to miss out. And finally, if you didn't see the debate with Trent Horn and Steve Christie that I held on Friday on this channel, you need to go and watch it because it was excellent. They debated the Deuterocanonical books. They debated whether Protestants had the correct Old Testament canon. I'll be releasing that as an audio podcast soon, but be sure to go check that out. God bless and thanks so much.