Pints With Aquinas - 61: 15 (or so) stories about St Thomas we hope are true, with Fr Ryan Mann

Episode Date: June 20, 2017

Today I chat with Fr Ryan Mann about 15 (or so) stories about St Thomas Aquinas that we really hope are true. It's a fun episode. :) --- HUGE THANKS to the following Patrons: Tim Davolt, Chris Reintjes, Tom Dickson, Jack Buss, Sean McNicholl, James Boehmler, Laura Suttenfield, John Hipp, Kathleen Cory, Sarah Jacobs, Fernando Enrile, Travis Headly, Matthew Lafitte, Russell T Potee III, Jed Florstat, Phillip Hadden, and Katie Kuchar, and Matthew Anderson (twitter.com/Matt317A). --- www.BenSound.com  SPONSORS EL Investments: https://www.elinvestments.net/pints Exodus 90: https://exodus90.com/mattfradd/  Hallow: http://hallow.app/mattfradd  STRIVE: https://www.strive21.com/  GIVING Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattfradd This show (and all the plans we have in store) wouldn't be possible without you. I can't thank those of you who support me enough. Seriously! Thanks for essentially being a co-producer coproducer of the show. LINKS Website: https://pintswithaquinas.com/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/matt-fradd FREE 21 Day Detox From Porn Course: https://www.strive21.com/ SOCIAL Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattfradd Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattfradd Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattfradd MY BOOKS  Does God Exist: https://www.amazon.com/Does-God-Exist-Socratic-Dialogue-ebook/dp/B081ZGYJW3/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586377974&sr=8-9 Marian Consecration With Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Marian-Consecration-Aquinas-Growing-Closer-ebook/dp/B083XRQMTF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=fradd&qid=1586379026&sr=8-4 The Porn Myth: https://www.ignatius.com/The-Porn-Myth-P1985.aspx CONTACT Book me to speak: https://www.mattfradd.com/speakerrequestform

Hey, before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know that we are doing a ton of stuff to make Pints with Aquinas more helpful to you. We have developed a new website, PintsWithAquinas.com, the sweet new logo that I'm sure you've seen by now. I'll be creating comic strips for you to share. Yes, comic strips, actual cool looking, at least fun comic strips for you to share on social media. cool looking at least fun comic strips for you to share on social media all this stuff costs money not to mention the microphone the computer paying to host the podcast taking time out of my day to do this all of this to say that i would like to invite you to join me in helping pints with aquinas keep going the way you could do that is by going to pintswithaquinas.com, clicking the Patreon banner, and then donating.

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So there you go. There's a very straightforward, no beating around the bush appeal to you to support the show. You're going to love today's episode. Thanks so much. Welcome to Pints with Aquinas, episode 61. I'm Matt Fradd. Today, we'll be joined around the bar table by Father Ryan Mann to discuss 15 stories about St. Thomas Aquinas that we totally hope are true. Father Ryan! Oh my gosh, I can't believe it worked. It's amazing. Dear listeners, we've been trying to connect via Skype for the last 20 minutes,

but to no accord. No accord? To no success. To no... I don't know. It wasn't working. It wasn't working. It wasn't working. Today, I am here with Father Ryan Mann to discuss stories about St. Thomas Aquinas we hope are true. Exactly. Before we get into that, though, tell us a bit about yourself. I was very rude, didn't introduce you. That's all right.

Father Ryan Mann, I'm for the Diocese of Cleveland. I was ordained three years ago, and I'm at a great parish here in Parma, Ohio, St. Charles Borromeo. So, yeah, I do. I didn't care for it myself. So that's why we've only had you once. We're not inviting you back. Yeah, no problem. And so tell us, now you did your thesis on Bonaventure, correct? Yeah. So in our seminary, you get invited to write a master's thesis for graduation from the academic portion, and I did mine on actually Pope Benedict's understanding of theology, and he was largely influenced by St. Bonaventure,

so because of that, Bonaventure became a part of the writings that I did as well. Okay, and this was your idea. You're the one who said to me, let's do a podcast on just stuff about Aquinas we hope is true. Is that true? I think so. Okay. So, dear listeners, what happened was I went to Father Ryan's parish in Ohio and you pulled out that handheld espresso maker, remember? Oh, yeah. That was a great thing, yeah. No electricity needed.

Unreal. And I think we were sitting and chatting. That's how I remember it, but who knows? See, this is why we can't trust the Gospels. If you and I – I'm just joking. I'm just joking. All right. So, tell us – okay, but you at least agreed to the idea. So, why do you think it's going to be fun for us to discuss, you know, stories about Aquinas we hope are true?

Yeah, well, Mother Angelica from UWTN, she used to have this great phrase. She said there's a special place in purgatory for saint biographers. And, like, the idea that, I mean, there was a strong, what do you want to say, like, tradition within the tradition of, was a strong, what do you want to say, like tradition within the tradition of, in order to really exemplify a saint's virtues and holiness, they would maybe tell like an embellished story, or they'd add some flair to a story. This doesn't to say they're not holy or supernatural or icons of Christ in our midst, but perhaps some of the historical details we can't really verify. We don't know did it happen this way or didn't it, but either way the story as a whole communicates something really beautiful and sometimes funny or joyful,

but at the end of the day at the depths of it usually fairly inspiring so that we can live out our own humanity in an inspiring way. Right, and it's really easy to make up stories about saints, and to prove that I've got something I just thought of. I want you and me to quickly think up of a random story that's not true, but we'll pretend it's true and it'll sound true. Ready? I'll do the first one. Okay. There was a time that St. Francis of Assisi was laying in bed and he took down the crucifix from his wall and he clung to it and said, my Jesus, I love you.

And another brother sleeping in the same cell as Francis heard Christ from the crucifix say to him, you know, essentially, I appreciate the sentiment, but there I am laying cold in the street. Go and serve me there. Doesn't that sound beautiful? I just totally made that up. Yeah, no, see, and that's exactly like, oh, that would, of course, would happen. All right, you give us one. You give us one. Yeah, no, it's great. How about St. Catherine of Siena one day was mulling over the scripture text.

And as people walked by, they would ask her questions and try speaking to her, and they couldn't distract her. And they realized it was because it wasn't just the scriptures. It was Christ himself that was instructing her and she would never take her eyes off of her beloved. Oh, come on. That's brilliant. Yeah, not true at all. I have no idea if that happened. So how can these stories be detrimental to the rest of us, do you think? I mean,

we can certainly learn from them, as you say, but what was Mother Angelica's point? Yeah, Mother Angelica's point is that what can happen is we begin to try to run away from or ignore our human experience, because experience can sometimes just seem so humdrum, like just so normal and like, well, I just was sluggish going to prayer today, but man, these saints would sing songs of joy as they ran to the chapel. man, these saints would sing songs of joy as they ran to the chapel. And so we begin to take their emphasized or heightened stories in our everyday experience, and it can become discouraging. We can be thinking that there's no way grace is at work in my heart and my life. And so it becomes a whole block to our growth rather than actually what it's supposed to be, which is an inspiration. block to our growth rather than actually what it's supposed to be, which is an inspiration.

I heard somebody say that the bios of the saints, he analogized them to our Facebook profile on Instagram pages, right? Because on Instagram and Facebook, we just show the best side of ourself. And, you know, like studies are showing that that leads us to feel more anxious, more insecure, more, you know, we find it less easy to be at peace with the life we have and sometimes that's true of the saints right like you hear these stories about when Padre Pio was three he heard someone blaspheme and cried and ran away and I read that I'm like what a wimp like suck it up like you know I don't really mean that but yeah it can be it can be really discouraging because you look at our life and where the unedited Facebook slash Instagram page and be like, bleh. Right. Or, you know, and exactly like you're saying, like, I mean,

you put the filter on the pictures and all that. These are like, a lot of saint stories are filtered stories. Like, we filter it and this is, we edited this or airbrushed this. And usually because we didn't want any of the saint's humanity, i.e. brokenness, to be shown. Yeah. And actually, there's a story of Therese of Lisieux in her autobiography. What's that called again? Story of a Soul. They actually edited her words on her deathbed out of the first manuscript. Did you know that? I didn't know. I think I had heard it, but I didn't know what it was. This is funny. I'm about to explain this, and we're both going to be like, man, that must be true. But who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. No, but I did had heard that, but I didn't know what it was. This is funny. I'm about to explain this and we're both going to be like, man, that must be true.

But who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. No, but I did hear that she said things like the deepest, darkest plagues of atheism plague my soul. Or maybe she didn't use the term atheism, but just this fear that she was in a godless universe, right? And my understanding, and our listeners can correct me viciously if they want, is that that was actually removed from the first edition of the book because it was so scandalous, but it's actually been placed in there, which is good. Which is why like Mother Teresa, what she wrote, her spiritual diaries were such a blessing.

You know, and it's so important to realize that just because these aren't historically accurate, it doesn't mean now like throw your hands up and I can't even trust saints anymore. Right. You know, obviously not. The truth is that if they are canonized by the church, they are living in the life of the Trinity and they are like interceding for us and they can, and God can send them to us to inspire us and to draw us. So we want to trust them, but to realize with a good sense of humor that while the stories may not be exactly accurate, there's usually something

in the story that is worthy of our contemplation or our time. All right, well, let's begin to go through these. How about we do them one at a time? I'll throw one at you, you throw one at me, and we'll say why we like them and hope they're true. Okay, sounds good. You go first. All right, so number one, I hope St. Thomas Aquinas was fat. I don't know. Like, we hear that he was fat. We see pictures of him being fat. I remember once I uploaded an image of him where he didn't look fat, and someone said,

that's just like an edited picture of Aquinas. I've actually looked. I can't see any kind of evidence to think he was fat, other than what Albert the Great apparently said of him, and this, I guess, is another story I hope is true, that, you know, Aquinas' friends would mock him at university because he was so quiet, they thought he was stupid. And someone said, you know, you call him the dumb ox, dumb in the sense of not speaking, but I tell you his bellowing will be heard throughout the world. So, there's two stories of Aquinas. I've got two for one there that I hope are true. Yeah, you know,

the fat one, there's actually a story, I think, going off that where the brothers, when they would eat, the Dominican brothers, they would have a long picnic table, you'd imagine, like a picnic table bench is what you pulled up. because he was so big their bench would be too far away from the table that they couldn't reach the silverware uh and so they had to carve out part of the table for aquinas so that he could fit within there and everyone could reach the table i mean this is how these stories get exaggerated because you think how humiliating what the big half circle semi-circle on the table that's for fat thomas exactly i mean exactly you know and what's interesting is how many people do know that about aquinas you know they may not be able to know anything you wrote but they do know

oh yeah he was big he was real big but again i don't know if that's true do you have a good reason i think it is i have no and more so that, you'd think they kept the table that they carved out if he was as amazing as he was. Right. So I don't know of any proof of that except just oral tradition, and it'd be written down in a few places. But yeah, exactly. At our seminary, actually, there's a statue of Aquinas, and he's skinny. Yeah, who the heck wants to say get out of here yeah no that's not real there's no way whole 30 aquinas

yeah exactly exactly i think here's another story i heard so i in the beginning i said we'd go back and forth but apparently i'd like to hear the sound of my voice you're making the rules you can play the third story that i've heard and it it plays into this fat thing, is that Aquinas wasn't huge into different ascetical practices like wearing hair shirts, sleeping on the floor, and these sorts of things. But that he was a very virtuous person, right? Very virtuous in the non-obvious sort of humble ways. And I think part of the reason we kind of hope he was fat is we like the idea or I like the idea of there being a saint who just enjoyed food. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, and I think there's – in the Thomistic tradition, so maybe not Thomas himself, there is a freedom of enjoyment. Most people who follow Aquinas, they aren't as suspicious of the things that bring them pleasure. Because I think actually on one of your podcasts already, you talked about how he said, handle sadness. I think he did that with Father Damien Ferencz from our own diocese here in Cleveland, where the idea was that it wasn't just pray it away, but have a good meal, see friends, take a bath. There's a sense in which, you know, he enjoyed things that were meant to be enjoyed by our Creator, by God. And yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.

Absolutely. All right, well, let me give you a shot. Give us a story you hope is true about Aquinas. Okay, and I don't know if you've heard this one. And so, this is a good one. Supposedly, it was him and a few others, they were asked by a local bishop to check out this nun that had a high reputation of sanctity, that people were saying she's like a living saint. And so the bishop said, go check this out. And supposedly Aquinas and these others went, and they got into the chapel. They said, oh, sister so-and-so's in the chapel. And they go into the chapel and she's levitating. Okay. And all the other people with St. Thomas Aquinas are in awe. And you could just imagine they're thinking she's so holy. And supposedly Thomas Aquinas goes up to her and

tells her, you have ugly feet. And she comes to the ground and says, who are you to insult my feet? And she starts getting all upset. And he says, you're no saint. A saint wouldn't care that much about themselves and walked away. There is no way that's true. I know, but it's a story. I mean, I've heard several people tell this story. It's a good story. Why do we like that story? I think we like it because there is a practical wisdom to it, right? There's like a sense in which holiness doesn't have to be, I have the stigmata, I'm levitating, but there's a sense of Aquinas just being down to earth and be like, you're kind of

self-absorbed. There's no way that could be holy. It's kind of practical. It was like that time I stayed with you right before I got up to give a big address. You walked into the chapel where I was kneeling and you said, hey, your hair looks stupid and walked out. And I was like, man, I was so offended by that. Yeah, I like saying that just to really get you ready. You're no Saint, Matt Fred. All right, well, let's see. What's another one? Well, here's a story I hope is true. And this seems to be one that's shared in most

biographies of him. So, I suspect it has more weight than some of the others. And that is when Aquinas was running off to join the Dominicans, perhaps we shouldn't say running off, but my understanding was that the superiors of the order were moving him to a different place because his family was so upset that he joined this mendicant order, this order that begged for their food that weren't truly established in the church at that time, it was a bit of an embarrassment to the family, was that, I guess, the mum or dad or both sent brothers off to take Aquinas by force. They locked him in a room, and the story goes that one night they sent in a woman of the night to tempt Aqu yes. To tempt Aquinas and that he spent no time mucking around.

He went straight for a wooden log in the fireplace that was still alight, chased her outside with it, and then he shut the door and he made a cross with the black of the stick on the door. That's a heck of a story. That's pretty intense, though. I mean, you hear stories like that about Padre Pio, right? How he just starts screaming at people in the confessional.

Even like Francis of Assisi, right? When he was struck by any sort of temptation, he'd roll around in a rose bush. I mean, there's a dramatic flair to these saints. That's not domestic. Back in the 13th century, they didn't have cold showers, I guess. All their showers were cold, I guess. Yeah, back in the 13th century, they didn't have cold showers, I guess. Or all their showers were cold, I guess. Oh, yeah.

Cold shower, thornbush. Thornbush. All right, keep going. Thornbush. You know, I like this story about Aquinas because I like it because you tend to think of him, or at least I do, of like he's just quiet and praying and reading and like just really just wrapped up in the interior life of contemplating the truth. But here he is fighting off temptations, like really any of us are called to, at least to meet temptation firmly and not be passive about it, but to face it head on and go after it. I kind of like that. Yeah, it's a great one. Do you have another one? I do. I do.

This is the one where he is, I think it's in another one of his, one of the more famous books about him, where he is, he's been mulling over a theological problem. I think it was a heresy at the time, trying to figure out how to respond. And his bishop sent him to some hobnobbing event, like, we need you to go to this event. And he did not want to go, but he went. And while he's sitting at table with all these, we would say like wealthy benefactors now, but who knows what they'd call him then. He's just kind of aloof. And out of nowhere, he pounds his fist on the table and he says, that's how I will answer that heresy. And he goes on to like describe how he would do it at that time.

And so that's another story. I mean, we're not there. Why would anyone document that experience of him? I'm not sure. But it's funny because that's a rude thing to do. You're a guest. It'd be like going to a Legatus event, right? With all these beautiful, wealthy Catholics, not talking to anyone at the table, not eating the bread and butter, and then at one point just slamming your fist down. Yeah, you're not present to them. Clearly, imagine someone was telling him a story about his niece. He clearly wasn't listening to the story about the niece. He just pounded his fist and said, I figured out how to answer that heretic. Well, okay, good for you. My niece mattered. I mean, that heretic. Well, okay, good for you. My niece mattered. I mean, it's kind of funny because,

yeah, saints, they're not, I mean, I like to think I'm good in social settings, but saints maybe aren't. Maybe that's a, you don't fit within the social conventions of the time. I don't know. Yeah. Especially if you can't fit into the table, right? I mean, did they cut a bit out of the table for this event? Who knows? Good point. Yeah, good point. But I think it does show his love of truth, certainly, that he was always attending to these things. I think a lot of people suspect that Aquinas was like a big brain on a stick, sort of like Aristotle on steroids. So this next story that I've heard I really hope is true, and that's that Aquinas would sometimes rest his head against the tabernacle and weep because he so desperately wanted to understand the mystery of the Holy Eucharist, the mystery of the Incarnation. Have you heard that?

I did. I've heard even in addition to that, that when he had a theological problem, he would run to the tabernacle and beg for light, for understanding. And I think someone tells that story quite a bit about when he wrote his, the last part of the Summa, I think it's on the Eucharist or something of the sort, which it never got finished. He put it before the tabernacle and saying, you know, this is it. This is what I have to say of you. You know, let me know, Lord. Yeah, there was a great, yeah, devotion or love or a real strong sense of the true presence. Yeah, I think it's beautiful too, because I think too often, those of us who love Aquinas, we might pride ourselves on being, you know, intellectual, you know, not like those charismatic

people or those people who get all emotional at prayer. No, no, no. This is all practical, heady stuff. But here we have Aquinas whose head is not just moved, but his heart is moved also. And I think those of us who tend to be more attracted to the intellectual side of the faith can learn a lot from that. I think so. You know, that actually combined with the other story, another story I had, which was the story goes that as soon as he was done celebrating mass, he would immediately run to concelebrate mass again with another priest. Now there was a little difference back then of the kind of mass, like the structure and things, obviously, but nonetheless,

uh, there was a, he, he so understood by faith what was happening at that Mass. That's where he wanted to be. And what I love about that is kind of what you said is our faith is amazing to think about, and it has to be thought about. But it's more amazing to participate or to live it and celebrate it. And that happens at the Mass. And, you know, when people don't go to Mass on Sundays and there's not, you know, obviously the church has the teaching of if it's intentional, da-da-da, mortal sin. But there's only a negative, a strong no, because of what's going on there that you could participate in. And Aquinas understood that, that he not only didn't want to miss that, he would be around it one, two, I'm assuming, according to this story, it sounds like even

three times he'd want to be present at that offering at the Mass and the presence as that miracle takes place. That's a beautiful thing. Thank you. Yeah. All right, your turn. All right. This happens, you mentioned Bonaventure earlier, who I love, and the story gives a pat on the back to all those who love Bonaventure. So, you know, St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas were teaching at the same university, which, I mean, talk about the primo school to go to, okay? And they were walking down the hallway together, and Aquinas always admired the charity that exuded out of Bonaventure. And one day they're walking and Thomas Aquinas looked at Bonaventure and says, where did you get such love from? And Bonaventure didn't even answer him, just pointed at a crucifix and then kept walking. And what I like about the story as far as Aquinas goes, though,

is that how many times do you have a colleague or someone who's doing the same work as you and there's a rivalry or comparing? You don't want to reveal you don't know or you need help. And here's Aquinas walking with Bonaventure just says, where are you getting this like beauty, this amazing love? He had no problem learning from anyone. I think that's a great lesson there. You know, it'd be funny if you and I tried that today, because a lot of these stories, they sound good when you retell them. But if I, like, imagine if you and I tried that today, because a lot of these stories, they sound good when you retell them. But imagine if you and I were walking down the church and you're like, man, I just really appreciate your charity. Like, where do you get this from? And I just ignored you and pointed and then kept walking. What a jerk.

I'd be like, never mind. Clearly, you don't have charity. That's right. All right. Well, here's another story I've heard and I hope is true, and that's that Aquinas could dictate on several different subjects to several different secretaries all at the same time. Now, do you think that's true? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's the whole point of this podcast, right? I hope. podcast right i hope like i think it is i think that one is true because you i've heard the same thing about um beethoven that beethoven would write several pieces of music at once by dictating to scribes what was going on wow so i think some people are so advanced i don't know yeah when i've heard it it was like three or four secretaries at once you know from uh yeah about yeah, about different topics. And here's, I think the insight, or at least something I've been thinking about in regards to this is, you know, sometimes people say, gee, imagine if

Aquinas had the internet. I mean, just imagine how much more he could have done. But I don't think that's true. I mean, it's almost like you need an eye and will and this ability to be hyper-focused in order to not start watching Stephen Colbert and cat videos. No, exactly. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think there's something very true about that. I mean, we tend to pride ourselves on doing multiple things at once, right? Oh, he's a multitasker. But I think it's really true that it takes much more skill to fully attend to one thing at a time. And I think that's an interesting point about Aquinas,

is that perhaps the one thing he was attending to is the mystery of God, but as he communicates that, it's answering a couple different questions. That may be happening for him, but that's why these stories are so amazing. that it's answering a couple different questions that may be happening for them. But that's why these stories are so amazing. Yeah. And I think this can teach us something as those of us who want to, you know, try to be intellectuals and who love the intellectual life is not to distract ourselves, not to place ourselves, you know, in a position where we have a million different windows open, we're studying like three different things at once, but rather to throw ourself into one thing wholeheartedly. For this reason,

I have had my wife delete my Safari, Chrome, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook apps off of my phone. Not because I think I'm going to look at pornography. I wouldn't do that, God willing, even if I had the apps. But the reason is it just distracts me. And so now, you know, when I'm out for coffee or something, there's actually no option to pull up a distracting app while I'm with someone. And I found that really helpful. I mean, I want to echo that, that I actually, on my smartphone, I had my friends, my priest friends, get rid of the internet completely on my phone, uh, I had my friends, uh, my priest friends get rid of the, uh, uh, the internet completely on my phone. Wow. So, uh, the reason being is I didn't, I couldn't justify anymore, uh, why I would look at anything on the internet with my phone when a couple of years ago,

I didn't have that and it was fine. Uh, but how do you, I mean, for me, we're totally going off on a tangent here, but for me, it's like having Google maps and having, being able to pull up my Delta. Okay. Yeah. So I still have Google maps on there. I still have, um, I still have my, uh, my email on there. It's just like the safari app. Oh, I see. You had them in the app store. Yeah. So just that's gone. So, uh, so really I, you're right. Like there's a, there's a less of a pull, you know, there's a great, there's an amazing book that if people who are interested in technology have never read it called The Scent of Lemons. It's kind of a Catholic book, but he talks about how technology is reducing us to two senses, seeing and hearing. But there's actually three other senses that we're meant to engage in reality.

Wow, fascinating. You can keep this on the podcast because it's very Thomistic that we learn through our senses. But one of the things he says in there is precisely that cell phones have destroyed our sense of space. That 10 years ago, you would have never heard a cell phone ring in a place like a church or a theater. Those were sacred places that there's certain places in life that when you're there, you should have the space away from everything else to be there. And I'm not great at it as a priest. I'm not. But I want to be the kind of priest that people would say, boy, when you're with him, you feel like you're the only person.

Yeah. You know, I don't think I'm there. So when people say, like, how are you so present? You can just point up at the crucifix awkwardly. Exactly. And then walk away as the angels sing behind me. And as you're walking out the guy's like this was spiritual direction where are you going and then you turn around and you put your

finger to your lips you don't even make the shush sound and you keep walking that's great i like that i'm gonna try that next time yeah i remember seeing in certain cafes you would have these signs it would say no cell phones like so even there, this was a sense of this is at least a reverent place where we should kind of be together to eat, to chat. And now there's coffee shops that say things like there's no Wi-Fi, talk to each other. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting revolution that's happening in a reverse direction. There's some great Catholic books out recently, Strangers in a Strange Land, Archbishop Chaput, and some other ones that talk about how when you're in a technological time, everything is about the next big thing. But the Catholic worldview is that the end is to rest in union with God. So progress and technology tell us what's next,

what's next, what's next. But the Catholic worldview is that the goal isn't to ask what's next. It's really what's God doing and attending to God. And to be able to rest in him, you know, which is what Aquinas says is the highest form of truth. The highest form of the human being is to contemplate the truth, which is God. It's not doing or producing, but to contemplate. Wow. Beautiful. That's awesome. All right. I think I've got about two or three more in my head about Aquinas. Here's one that I know isn't true, but gets thrown around a lot on the internet. And I've actually even heard Peter Kreeft say this, and it's saying that, you know, a cure for sadness is a hot bath, a good night's sleep, and a big glass of red wine.

Now, yeah, I love that. In that episode I did with Father Damien, we discovered that actually a bath was true. Aquinas did talk about that. He did talk about a good night's sleep, but he didn't say a large glass of red wine. But that said, even though he didn't say that, I think it still gets to what Aquinas was driving at. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's – and don't you see that too? That's why i love aquinas's stories is they really show him to be human uh you know a glass of red wine i mean that

just shows you like take care of your whole self not just your soul you're also are a body and you're a psychology you have emotions that need to be attended to as well as spiritual yearnings and everything yeah yeah all right you do you have any more? I have one more. Okay. So I believe this one, I forget who tells this story, but supposedly Thomas Aquinas had such great insights into the epistles of St. Paul and even to Peter's writings in the New Testament that when confronted and saying, how do you know so much about these? that when confronted and saying, how do you know so much about these? He reluctantly revealed that St. Peter and St. Paul would visit him in his Excel and explain the meaning of the words to him, that he was actually tutored by the apostles himself. Wow. Yeah, that's totally not true either. All right. So, the final one is, you know,

you hear the story of Brother Reginald, who was apparently walking past the chapel one night, and he heard Christ speak to St. Thomas. And Christ said, you've written well of me, Thomas, what will you have as your reward? And Aquinas apparently said, nothing if not you, Lord. Love it. I've heard it said other ways, like, I don't want anything, all I want is you or something like that, but that's actually the way Bishop Robert Barron has on his bishop motto, nothing if not you, Lord, in Latin. What I love about that is you're not saying, I don't want the world, I just want you. What you're saying is, I want everything, but if it means not having you, then I don't want it. Yeah, that's beautiful. And that story I could see is being more true just because that sounds like what every saint eventually gets to right is that holy difference or that detachment of that

you know it's not that you know a glass of red wine or a bath or friends are bad but if to have those means i'd be separating myself from jesus right now i don't want those i want jesus first and uh absolutely amen well this has really fun. I think we came up with like 15 or so stories there. Yeah. Not too bad. Huh? Very good. That was good. Well, Hey, uh, as we wrap up today, do you want people to follow you somewhere? Do you blog somewhere? I don't know. What do you do? I don't, I don't really blog or anything, but, uh, just follow Matt Fred. He does great stuff. Father, follow, follow your friend, Father Damien Ference. Oh yeah. And Father Damien Ference. Yeah,erencz, he writes a lot of things and has Instagram and all those great stuff. All right.

So I'm going to ask you a question. I need you to answer really appropriately. Wow, Father, I mean, you don't have Facebook or you don't blog. How are you so humble? Father? Father? Father? Must be pointing at a crucifix.

That's all the time we have this week for Pines with Aquinas. Hope you love the show. Huge thanks to everyone who is supporting Pines with Aquinas on Patreon. And for those of you who, after listening to this episode, have decided it's such a great show that you're going to start doing that as well. Someone pointed out to me that the other day I said, if you give two bucks a month to Pines with Aquinas, that amounts to 12 bucks a year.

Apparently I'm terrible at math. Should have said 24, so thanks for correcting me. It's one of the beautiful things about having a podcast. Everyone on Twitter tells you what an idiot you are. All right, guys, God bless you. And we will chat next week.