Pints With Aquinas - Charismatic Renewal, Traditional Liturgy, and Praying in the Wilderness (Fr. Mark Goring) | Ep. 517

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Fr. Mark Goring CC, is a member of the Companions of the Cross, a new order of priests based in Ottawa, Ontario. He grew up in the town of Pembroke, in the Ottawa Valley. He joined the Companions of the Cross when he was 18 and was ordained to the priesthood in 2002, at the age of 26. Fr. Mark is the Assistant General Superior of the Companions of the Cross and is Pastor of St. Mary’s Parish in Ottawa. He has a Youtube ministry, has written a number of books and leads a School of Reading. 🍺 Want to Support Pints With Aquinas? 🍺 Get episodes a week early, score a free PWA beer stein, and join exclusive live streams with me! Become an annual supporter at 👉 https://mattfradd.locals.com/support 💵 Show Sponsors:  👉 College of St. Joseph the Worker – Earn a degree, learn a trade, and graduate without crippling debt: https://collegeofstjoseph.com/mattfradd 👉 Hallow – The #1 Catholic prayer app: https://hallow.com/mattfradd  💻 Follow Me on Social Media: 📌 Facebook: https://facebook.com/mattfradd 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/mattfradd 𝕏 Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/Pints_W_Aquinas 🎵 TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@pintswithaquinas 👕 PWA Merch – Wear the Faith! Grab your favorite PWA gear here: https://shop.pintswithaquinas.com

Pines with Aquinas is brought to you by Truthly, which is a ground-breaking Catholic AI app built to help you know, live and defend the Catholic faith. Start your seven-day free trial today when you download Truthly on the App Store. Coming soon to Android. How do you see the Charismatic renewal today in the church and what's its future if-and? Yeah, to be fully Catholic must include openness to the charism of the Holy Spirit because that's in Scripture and it's in our tradition. So to just say, well I'm not into all those charisms, that's just silly. You can't just dismiss part of what we see clearly in tradition of the church.

That phrase charismatic renewal, when you hear that you think, okay loony people babbling and calling in tongues. Negatively put, if you say you're a trad, well, it means you're angry, it means you hate Pope Francis. I'm not saying this is how traditional people feel, but that is often what's placed upon them. You know, especially the young men, you know, like, guys, you can't be glued to your social media all the time. You know, getting out into nature and just doing real stuff is a real, you know, remedy. And the thing is, it's in the time. You know, getting out into nature and just doing real stuff is a real remedy. And the thing is, it's in the tradition. Not only did Jesus do 40 days, but it says a number of times, Jesus went off to desert a place and there he prayed. It's great to have you on the show. This is amazing because you and I have known each other for a long time. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. First time we met each other. Was that net training 2002?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Golly, I was 19. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You must have been much older. I was a brand new priest, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was, I think I was ordained in 2002, my memory serves me. I think so. God, yeah. So I either, yeah, I think I showed up in Canada in August. Okay. So when were you ordained?

May. Yeah, wonderful. So you probably came to training and celebrated Holy Mass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed that, yeah. Yeah, I remember just being so taken by the companions of the cross. For those who are watching, that's your order. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember just being so taken by the companions of the cross for those who are watching. That's your order. Yeah. Yeah. Founded by the good Father Bob the Dad. That's right. Yeah. Who I loved.

Yeah, he inspired a lot of people. Yeah. Listen, it's so cool to be here in Florida. Like I mentioned earlier, when I heard you were in Florida, I thought, oh, that's a nice place. I love Florida. Yeah. And you're happy here. Yeah, we moved here in August because of my wife's health. And she's, you know, she still struggles with health issues,

but she's noticeably different, noticeably better. Yeah, yeah. And as Father Dave from Franciscan said to me He's like just be glad you're not married to a woman who actually needs to live in the constant cold and damp Is possible right? That's Dave Pivanka. Yeah Maybe she needed to move to Washington State. Oh, yeah, that would have been tough So Florida's nice. Yeah I'm not gonna complain.

Now you wanted me to mention the Pines with Aquinas beer stories. We gotta start it. Very important. I love these mugs by the way. One of the reasons I'm here, obviously, I'm honored to be here on Pines with Aquinas, but one of the reasons I'm here is,

I think it was, it might have been four or five years ago, your assistant reached out to me and she says, could you be on Pines with Aquinas? And my response to it was, it might've been four or five years ago, your assistant reached out to me and she says, could you be on Pines with Aquinas? And my response was, well, do I get one of those mugs? And she sent one right away. And I was thrilled. I finally have one of these mugs. But then I don't know what happened.

It didn't work out. I think it might've been COVID and I was supposed to be in Steubenville a while ago. And I got sick like the last minute and I thought like is this ever gonna happen and I felt guilty because I got this mug you know they sent me a mug and I part of it too I wanted to mention is like I get a lot of requests for you know speak engagements and interviews I don't do that anymore so I want people to know listen the reason I'm here is you sent me a mug you know a few years ago and it's up at my cabin and every time I use it,

I always think I'm supposed to go on with pints with the coin these days. So I finally can drink from this mug knowing that I fulfilled my promise. So people just have to send you a nice mug and you might come and speak at their parish. Yeah, that's right. Everyone's got their weakness. So it's good to be here. Yeah. Praise God.

So tell people about the Companions of the Cross, if you don't mind, because Father Bobbida, I quote him all the time, this one line that he, you may have heard me say it because I say it almost every episode, since discernment became fashionable, no one's made a decision since. That's a Father Bob, no one's made a decision since. That's a Father Bob quote. That's a Father Bob quote. I just think that's fantastic. He was so beautiful.

I went to confession to him a couple of times. I don't know what anyone else's experiences of him was, but for me, when I was in his presence, it really felt like I was the only one in the universe. He just had this way about him of really tending to the person in front of Him and had a lot of love for Him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, He was really kind of a special priest. His story is interesting. Like, He was what you describe as a faithful priest, you know, He was well-loved, but he had an experience

through the Charismatic renewal where he was prayed over for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And he tells the whole story and it's kind of humorous, you know, at first he thought, you know, Charismatics were all crazy and that. But when they prayed over him and said, Oh, you can receive all these gifts of the Holy Spirit, he says, you know, all these charisms, I'm not really that interested in them, but he says, the one thing I would love is a gift of prayer, because he would see people in particular charismatic just this love for prayer and spending time in prayer. And he was embarrassed to admit that as a priest, he barely prayed at all. He tried to do his bravery, but beyond that, he just felt like his time was meant to be

spent kind of doing the work and getting things done, you know? And so they prayed over him for a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And he says the next morning when he... He didn't feel anything when they prayed over him, but he says the next morning when he woke up, as soon as he woke up, there was this thirst to be with God and to pray. And so, he said he had this chair, this armchair, and he said he just couldn't wait to just go sit in that armchair. And He said He knew exactly what to do. And He filled, I guess, an hour because, you know, He got into the habit of praying, starting His day with a holy hour. But He knew exactly how to spend that hour, and it was just so life-giving he felt that he received a gift of prayer, you know, and it also just kind of changed his view of how to minister.

Like he really thought, I think the way he put it was, he thought it was up to the priest to run the church, you know, to kind of do God's work. And then his big discovery was, well, no, no, the Lord wants to run the church, and we need to see what he's doing and support it and let him do his work. And so it just kind of, it's like things turned upside down for him, or we could say right side up, where all of a sudden he realized, wait a minute,

it's the Holy Spirit who is the one changing lives, convincing people, setting people on fire, like doing the work. And my job is to just see what the Holy Spirit is doing and support it. And so, I guess part of his experience was, he says he was just transformed by the Holy Spirit. And one of the fruits of the Spirit is love, you know. And so, like me too, when I met Him, I just felt like I was loved by a father who really did genuinely care about me. And it's hard to describe that experience, you know, like someone who, you know, whatever, remembers your name and is just, you know, really kind. And that he touched a lot of people. And it's the same kind of vein as they say, St. John Bosco.

Apparently, when you like, he, all these, you know, boys living in the streets, these underprivileged young people, they would meet Him and they would just be so drawn to His goodness and love. And then also, St. Philip Neri. Okay, yeah. Again, Philip Neri was filled with the Holy Spirit, but he just had this drawing power that we would say, well, it was the Holy Spirit. He was filled with the love of God, you know, and when we're filled with the love of God, there should be, when people meet us,

encounter us, an encounter with the love of God, you know. And I mean, Saint Mother Teresa, I think, would be, and Saint John Paul too, you hear stories of people meet them and they're struck And they're struck with a goodness, a love, a tenderness. And so Father Bob, that's one of the most common things people mention about him is like, wow, when I met him, I just really felt like he genuinely loved me. And again, I would say, I mean, it was obviously him, but the Spirit, you know, like he was, he abandoned himself to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came and filled him. And a manifestation of that was just love. And St. Paul, too, I see. St. John Paul, the Apostle? St. Paul the Apostle. You remember when he left on his voyage there, they were all weeping, you know, and you think, hmm...

They wouldn't have done that if they didn't feel loved. Yeah, like what was going on there, you know? And so, anyways, yeah. I remember, if I remember correctly, him saying that the next morning after that prayer experience, he started reading the Scriptures ravenously, and it had been maybe hours. It was only after that that he realized, oh my goodness, I haven't done this before. I don't know why I have this insatiable desire. And then he made the connection to that prayer. I like to come up with weird analogies because it helps me understand things, but to the point of loving the person in front of us, right? If we lived in like a post-apocalyptic landscape

and had not come upon another human being in months, and then suddenly we did, think of that experience. Like here is one like me and the kind of attention I would pay to you. And yet so often I think we treat people like objects, which is cliche. Yeah. But I mean, I went down, I got my coffee this morning. Did I see the person?

Was I interested in them? Yeah. Or wasn't I? And I think, yeah, as you grow in the Lord, you begin to give things their proper value, including human persons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that should definitely be one of the fruits of, you know, walking with the Lord and being filled with the Holy Spirit is that somewhat nice people, at least some of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How did he found the companions of the cross? I mentioned, people were drawn to him, including young men who were encountering the Lord, falling in love with the Lord and wanting to do God's will.

And there was a number of young men who were discerning the priesthood, I think some even in the seminary, and they were struggling. And they came to Father Bob with kind of some of the struggles they were having in the seminary and all of that. And he was concerned for them. So he said, well, listen, why don't we meet on a regular basis and I'll try to encourage you and because again, there was the experience of really knowing that the Lord is pouring out His grace in right now.

He pours out His grace at all times, but there was a particular sense of, God is here, He's on the move, so let's let Him pour His love into our lives. And so, He began to meet with them every Friday evening. And I guess it was just, over time, there was just a real sense that this is meant to be more than just us kind of hanging out. I think this is meant to endure, you know, even once the guys were ordained. And then there was this sense, and this was again in the context of, you know, kind of a charismatic spirituality. So they felt they were kind of hearing from the Lord and kind of getting these senses. I feel the Lord is saying that, once we

are ordained, we're supposed to try to minister together, like kind of stay connected and work together. And then finally there was a sense that they were supposed to actually share life, live together. And that's when Father Bob realized, wait a minute, that's a community, that's a religious community. And he thought that's easier said than done. And he went to the bishop.

And when he shared the vision with the bishop, the bishop's response, I guess, knocked Father Bob off his feet. The bishop said, that's exactly what I've had since the Lord wanted. Which bishop was this? Oh, no, no, no. My heart is, it was a bishop, Plurde. I don't remember. Wow.

How interesting that the bishop had that sense too. I would have thought the bishop would have went, no, no, no, no more religious orders. Yeah, Father Bob was shocked and the bishop basically gave him green lights to proceed, you know. And I guess one of the strengths of our community is our shared life. Like, we believe that the quality of our ministry flows out of the quality of our life together. So for us, our community life isn't just kind of something that, like, an accidental, for us it's actually central, you know? So for us, loving one another, sharing life together as, you know, brothers in the Lord is where we get our strength and power

to be witnesses, you know. I mean, obviously we got our strength and power from the Lord, but we just, we feel that our life together is meant to be a witness, but also meant to give us kind of the strength to, you know, to minister to God's people. And a lot of our parishioners, like we have parishes in different places and different ministries, but a lot of our parishioners, they mentioned, they really like the fact that we're a community, a brotherhood. And we love one another, we do things together, sometimes go on adventures together or whatever, have our community times and all that. I think it is a witness to them and it inspires them. And I think they're also happy for us because it's nice to see priests be able to share life.

I love to talk about the charismatic renewal. I feel like that's put a bad taste in people's mouth, that phrase, charismatic renewal. And I'd love to explore that with you, because I know that you come out of that and still exist within it. I feel like maybe some of the maybe the reason people don't like the term charismatic who are charismatic might be for the same reason. People who are traditional don't like the label trad.

It comes with a whole lot of baggage. So negatively put, if you say you're a trad, well, it means you're angry. It means you hate Pope Francis. I'm not saying this is how traditional people feel, but that is often what's placed upon them. And so I could see a traditionalist saying, no, no, I'm just, I'm just Catholic and I love the liturgy, liturgy and our heritage. And I think we have a right to it. Okay. So I think maybe similarly people who are charismatic, quote unquote, when you hear that you think, okay, loony people talking and babbling and calling in tongues. You know, we hear about abuses in charismatic orders,

or not charismatic orders, but charismatic communities where, you know, people are asking the leader, is the Lord letting me, does the Lord want me to buy a car and the leader will go and discern it and come back and tell them. It just sounds weird. And yet, so I guess I'm giving you my opinion that I really want you to talk about this. And yet, you know, when we read the lies of the saints, we don't bat an eyelid when we hear them hear from the Lord. Like that makes sense. Or if we have a priest telling his vocation story and he talks about this intimacy with Christ and the Christ guided him in this beautiful intimate way, like, yeah, that's great. But there's something scary for us, I think, as Catholics when it

comes to this intimacy, because one, we don't want to be fooled and we know that we can be and we know that people have been. And two, it's just a bit messy. And so we prefer just, no, we'll just say the prayers, none of this intimacy stuff. All right. So what is, how do you see the charismatic renewal today in the church and what's its future, if any? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think in the charismatic, whatever, the Catholic charismatic renewal, or those who consider themselves Catholic charismatics, you have a spectrum. So you have some who are just kind of Charismaniacs, kind of go overboard, and others who are more sensible, you know. And funny too, there are quite a few so-called

traditionalists, priests for example, who are quite traditionalists, who are very charismatic. Sometimes it's kind of almost amusing to see. But the point is, you mentioned Father Bob, and I think that's the reason a lot of us, including myself, many others, were open to the Charismatic renewal, was because he was just very sensible about the whole charismatic thing. He joked a lot about it. He had a sense of humor about the whole thing. He warned about extremes and exaggerations. Father Bob was deeply, you know, Eucharistic and, you know, loyal to the Magisterium of the Church, all those things. So, he kind of showed us that you can be open to and operate in

the charisms of the Holy Spirit and still be thoroughly Catholic. And he would even argue that to be fully Catholic must include openness to the charism of the Holy Spirit because that's in Scripture and it's in our tradition. So to just say, well, I'm not into all those charisms, well, that's just silly. You can't just dismiss part of what we see clearly in, you know, Paul's writings, for example, and in the tradition of the church. So I think a lot of us who would identify as charismatic, we would just point to leaders in the church who model a charismatic spirituality in a way that we find very Catholic, very proper. And so, for example, I don't know if you've come across Cardinal Raniero Cantalamesa. So his books were really good on sober intoxication of the Holy Spirit.

I love Mary Healy, you know, Dr. Mary Healy. I mean, I know she encourages the use of the charisms, the use of the Holy Spirit. Ralph Martin, yeah. Peter Herbag. So, there's a whole world of people who operate in the charisms. And the thing too is when you see people operating the charisms with power, that kind of gets your attention too. Like I know in the African church in Africa, I've met so many mighty ministers of God, like priests who, oh wow, like they just operate in the charisms of the Holy Spirit, you know, praying for healing and prophecy, but just good Catholic priests, but just moving in the power of the Holy Spirit. And when you see that, you kind of, you say, wait a minute, that's how

it's supposed to be. Like a man of God is supposed to be working in the authority and the power of the Holy Spirit. Also in the Latino world, you know, like when I was in Houston, we had a lot of preachers from all around the world, including the different countries in South America and Mexico and all that. And again, some of them just operating in the power, the anointing of the Holy Spirit. And again, you just see that power at work and also transforming lives, and again, seeing healings and you think to yourself, like, I think this is what Catholicism is meant to look like, you know, just a real manifest power of the Holy Spirit.

And again, especially, I think some of the, you know, we had just a lot of really powerful experiences of the Lord's grace. Please share some, because I could see someone being skeptical of this until you've witnessed something that you can't naturally explain. Yeah, yeah. Well, I remember, yeah, I just saw a number of beautiful healings, you know, at the Charismatic Center. I want to say a big thanks to the College of St. Joseph the Worker based in Steubenville, Ohio. You'll recognize many of their faculty and fellows

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Go to collegeofstjoseph.com slash mattfrad to learn more. That'sofsaintjoseph.com slash Matt Fradd to learn more. That's collegeofstjoseph.com slash Matt Fradd to learn more. There will be a link below. Thanks. I just I always want to make sure I have all the details right, or don't exaggerate something or something, but I remember, what was it, we there was a you a child, one of our priests, very charismatic, baptized the child, I think it was a child deaf, and after being baptized, could hear, you know. And I remember we had a healing service, and it was actually a layman who was just, the Lord was really anointing him for healing, so we brought him in just to pray for healing. And after the service, there was a family that was

walking out, and I greeted them, and they had two children. One was, I don't know, about that big, and the other one was a little smaller. And I greeted the boy, and then I greeted his younger brother, and the younger brother didn't respond at all. And his older brother said, oh, he the younger brother didn't respond at all. And his older brother said, oh, he doesn't speak, he can't speak. And the mother says, yeah, he hasn't spoken, he can't speak. How old is he? I don't know.

Roughly. Like 6, 10, 20? No, probably 6-ish, you know. And so, I just got down at his level and prayed with him, and I said, okay, now repeat after me, Abba Abba. And the boy starts saying Abba Abba. And the brother is like stunned, the mother is kind of, you know, kind of getting a little emotional. Then I said, now say, okay, Jesus, Jesus. And the boys are saying Jesus, Jesus.

You know, and that's, mom is really getting excited. And I think I got the boy to say, Jesus, I love you. And he's saying it to me perfectly fine. It wasn't surprising for me because I never experienced him not speaking. But the mother, she didn't thank me, she didn't thank the Lord. She grabs her son, holds him and hugging with tears. So you kind of think, I don't think she's faking that. I think for her at least, this is a little miracle, you know?

And so, yeah, you know, just kind of seeing... And for something like that, it takes a measure of faith and holy foolishness to kind of step out and say, okay, well, we believe the Lord Jesus is a healer, let's pray right now. And yeah, so just seeing people kind of dealing with kind of struggles, maybe levels of oppression for a long time, and just receiving prayer and all of a sudden, it's gone. time and just receiving prayer and all of a sudden it's gone. I've said this before, but what I love about people who live their faith in this way, let's just say that, is that they act and live and pray as if God were alive and as you said, on the move. Yeah.

I know people do that who would consider themselves traditionals as well. I'm not pitting, on the move. And I know people do that, who would consider themselves traditionalists as well. I'm not pitting one against the other. But there is something, I do think sometimes we fall into the trap of thinking of Christianity as this syllogism that if we just accept it and we abide by the morality as taught by the church, our lives will flourish. And the reason for social chaos is because people don't accept this syllogism and live in accord with this morality. And we need to get people on board with this, you know? And if you asked any Catholic,

is that how you live your faith? No one would agree to that. But I've seen myself live like that. And there's truth to that, right? Like I think Christianity is true. I think we have good reasons for God's existence, the historicity of Christ, et cetera. And I do think that Catholic morality is the most beautiful of moralities, that when we

implement it and try to live according to the teachings of the church, our lives will flourish. That's all true. But it's also the true, true that the good Lord Jesus is somehow inside of me. I don't even know what that means, and yet I believe it, and I trust it, and that He's on the move, that He's working in my life, that He wants to sanctify me, He wants to heal me and those around me. Like, this is a living Christ. And that's what I love about people at their best who would say they're charismatic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, the Lord certainly wants us to, you know, be filled with the Holy Spirit,

and that should manifest in us proclaiming Jesus, you know, telling people about the Lord. It should manifest itself in us if we encounter people who are broken and wounded and struggling and enslaved, and that we can say, hey, you know, there is a Savior. I know Him, and I can introduce you to Him. We can ask Him right now and let Him touch you in whatever way He wants, you know? And to me, every Christian must do that, because we're Christian means other Christ. So so when we encounter people who are lost who are broken who are wounded who are afraid who are you know oppressed We must because we are Christian other Christ we must bring the healing and grace and love and life and newness to them and Every Christian has to find a way that they're comfortable doing that.

You know, like I'm not the type of person to go harassing random people saying, hey, do you know the Lord? I mean, on the very rare occasion, I'll feel an inspiration to, hey, go talk to that person. But it's not very common. But I'm the type of guy, anytime I have an encounter with a person and they open the door slightly, I jump in. So, whatever. If I'm on an airplane, I typically greet the people next to me warmly and say hello. I love to chit chat with people typically. But again, I won't get into telling them all about the gospel unless there's a little crack in the door.

If there's some indication that there's an openness or the Spirit wants me to share, I'll do it and I love doing it and I'm comfortable doing it. And so, I think every Christian should have that zeal because that's what sets the church on fire. You know, like you take, for example, a country like Brazil that used to be like so Catholic, one of the most Catholic countries in the world. I think that at one time was it the biggest, the country with the biggest number of Catholics, I think was Brazil. And in the last decades, so much of Brazil has gone to evangelicalism and Pentecostalism. And you think to yourself, well, what are these evangelicals and

Pentecostals doing? Well, they're filled with a zeal for Jesus and a conviction that the Holy Spirit is working in power. And they're telling people about that and offering it to people. They're saying, listen, I used to be an alcoholic. I couldn't stop drinking. And then I surrendered my life to Jesus. I repented of my sins. I started reading the Bible. I haven't drunk since and He can do the same to you. Would you like that? And people are like, well, I guess, and they're being, you know, touched by the Lord Jesus and a fire spreading. We're seeing this happening in a lot of parts of Africa, other parts of the world, and I think a lot of Catholics are realizing that this being impelled to share Christ with others

should be normative for Catholics. Now again, we try not to be obnoxious about it, we try not to be pushy about it, we certainly don't want to... What's the word that Pope Francis always used? We don't want to proselytize. Is that the word? Yeah, I think so. No, we don't want to be quote unquote proselytized. I want to know what that means. Yeah, I don't think anyone's exactly sure, but the point is, we want to be, we have to, we must, if we're filled with the Spirit, if

we are Christians, other Christ, that we have to be sharing the fire, the love, and again, in each person in his or her own way. Yeah. Well, I mean, think about how enthusiastic people who are on a particular diet or exercise regiment that's working for them are to tell you about that thing. But I guess the analogy might be better that if the entire world was sick and bloody tired of being told about the paleo or carnivore diet,

sometimes it feels like that. It's like you're aware that everyone's sick and tired of it, then you're like, all right, well, I don't wanna just immediately turn people off with this. I'm not promoting either of these diets, you understand, but let's say for the sake of argument that these are beneficial.

I think they are to some degree. Then yeah, then I like that analogy. Because I'm talking to somebody and they express like how they're physically ill or they're dealing with autoimmune issues. It's like, ah, OK, then maybe now you're open to hearing about this diet that's helped me. It's sort of like that. It's like I'm aware that I'm going to turn off everybody by talking about Christ,

because who knows what they think when they think that. But if they reveal a sort of spiritual sickness, it seems to me our world is isolated and hopeless. Many people feel isolated because Satan has sifted us like wheat in our modern culture, and we're hopeless, and we are in desperate need of communion and hope. And that's precisely what Jesus Christ brings. And I love what you said earlier too about this holy foolishness, because you can feel like a real idiot when you step out and say, can I pray for you? Or can I tell you about Jesus?

No. Okay. Like that's rejection, and it hurts because you feel embarrassed. But we want our love for Christ to be strong within our fear of embarrassment. At the same time, as you say, being prudent and not... Because no one likes feeling like a project. And we all know the feeling we have when the Mormon shows up at our door or the Jehovah's Witness. We're like, okay, I don't want to talk to you, or maybe you do because you want to evangelize them back, but we don't want people to feel like a project. But yeah, okay. I get the sense that the faithful Catholics I meet today are kind of

done with the guitars and the happy clappy stuff of the 80s. Franciscan University of Steubenville is a good example of this, right? It just, to look at it, I think objectively, it feels like the charismatic element is shrinking and it's still there, but it feels like it's on life support. And some people seem to want it to exist longer than maybe it should. But you go to a daily Mass and you've got the majority of people kneeling to receive Eucharist.

The women are veiling. So even if you didn't like that, even if you were like Cardinal Supich, right? Who dissuades people from kneeling to receive. It's like, well, what are you gonna do? I mean, are we not to listen to where the Spirit seems to be leading us? And what I've experienced, because I had a brief stint in this sort of charismatic circles in the early 2000s, is that everyone I know, yeah, they're still open to hearing from the Lord, being

led by the Lord, communing with the blessed Mother, praying for healing, still, 100%. But there's also this deep longing for tradition and this desire to see those traditions that I think were kind of deprived of us being kind of reinstated. Do you see that and what is that? Yeah, well, I mean, to me, there's no question that more and more Catholics or many Catholics are just kind of longing for, how would I put it, like a rock-solid foundation and a rock-solid foundation and kind of maybe a security and a clarity. I think the wishy-washiness that we sometimes can see in the church for so many people, it's just so frustrating, disheartening, and something as simple as, you know, celebrating the liturgy according to the rubrics or who knows what else.

Like, it feels like at this time, it's way overdue that we're getting the most basic things right. And so, again, when you see still some liturgical abuse or just weird things happening, I think a lot of people, Catholics, are kind of done with that. They just want kind of the Catholicism in all its purity and all its clarity. So, therefore, things like, you know, reverence at Mass, receiving the Holy Eucharist in a, you know, reverent way, you know, oftentimes kneeling and on the tongue and all that, just things like that. I think it's like the experimenting after Vatican II, especially the younger generation, they just... There's not much kind of patience for, and even sometimes, again, what they did to some of the

churches in the name of the spirit of Vatican II, like I think a lot of us, we look back and we think like, what in the world were they thinking? Yeah, what spirit was at play here? I went to this gorgeous church in Ireland, I forget where, but from the outside, it was like this Gothic cathedral. And I went in and I nearly cried. I mean, it was carpeted over, it had a bunch of children's artwork all over the place. It looked like they turned it into what you would think of when you think of a safe space at a university. It was utterly depressing. Or I went to a monastery in Ireland and they had removed the tabernacle from the chapel and put it in the library because they were doing yoga. Yoga was being taught in the chapel. And I went into this library and I saw

this, I know it makes me want to punch someone in the face. I'm not sure if that's good either, but I saw this tabernacle on the ground and I just thought, oh, it's an old tabernacle. And I opened it up and the blessed sacrament was there. And I knelt and prayed, but come on. Like, is there anyone alive today who still wants to do that or are they dying out? Well, that's the million dollar question. Like I said, I think... There's definitely people who are alive today who want that. Let's be honest. We're seeing the death throes of it now. I'd love to hear those people speak up. Apparently, they are out there, but will you get them speaking publicly and openly and leaving comments open, you know, expressing their desire to see these abuses. You know, like it seems to me that, you know, any Catholic who's thinking and willing to speak about, you know, what they believe, you know, wants to see a return to, you know, proper practice and

all that. Yeah. Yeah. But you were mentioning... And I'd love you to push back on me here, eh? Because what's lovely about a long form discussion, hey, is that we're thinking things through together. Like, I think the reason people like long form podcasts, sometimes more than audio books,

is because these feel more vulnerable, because they are. We're thinking things through. Hopefully, no one will nail me down on a particular thing I said in a conversation or you. We're trying to think these things through, but that is just what I'm seeing. We want our faith to be taken seriously. And the reverence, the liturgy, the beauty, we have that in our tradition. It's almost like the first step, or the foundation on which Catholic liturgy and Catholic expression expression needs to be based is, you know, biblical and orthodox and reverent, you know? And if we can get that established, I think there is place for exuberant praise manifest in different ways, you know? So again, going to the example of Africa, I've been to Africa a number of times.

Oh man, their liturgies, like, they seem to be very orthodox, biblical. There doesn't seem to be any kind of rebellion and trying to do weird stuff, but they go on for hours and hours, and they dance, and then they sing, and and they dance some more and they sing some more. And you experience these liturgies with thousands of people, young people, children. You know, and again, just the, they're obviously excited about this. They're not, no one looks bored. They're not just putting in their one hour. You know? Like, they are experiencing something.

Yeah. And they're coming back week after week, and it's giving them life. And the children, they're not leaving the church. They know God is real. They experience the love of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and sing to Him and they praise Him and they dance. And so you ask yourself, like, what's going on here? And why don't we have that in Canada? I don't want that in Canada. It's funny, if I went to a holy mass in Africa, and I have, I've been to Uganda to evangelize and things like this, if I were to see some kind of dance in an African liturgy, I wouldn't be offended.

I'd find it beautiful, probably. If I saw that in Canada, I'd be deeply offended by it. So the question is, why? Now, what if it was a parish that was very multicultural, and the praise was not maybe like the big, African rallies with, you know, very, like a lot of that. But what if it was a little more exuberant and expressive while still being reverent? People still, you know, kneel to receive Holy Communion. Everything is, you know, done properly, but there's an exuberance.

And the Africans and maybe Latinos and people from different parts of the world, they're experiencing something of the joy of the Lord and the delight of worship in a Catholic liturgy. Would you be okay with that? Yeah. Perfect. I think there's something maybe profane in our culture in regards to dancing and the kind of music, like it's associated even in our own minds with rock

or whereas perhaps in some African cultures, it doesn't have that connection. I'm speculating, what do I know? I'm just talking out loud. And yet like the church has instituted how one ought to celebrate Holy Mass, Sacrosanctum Concilium, I wish we would follow that, with giving Gregorian chant, pride and place. So I don't know, I also don't want to too quickly

agree with the happy Africans, you know, that you're talking about. Maybe they shouldn't be... Well, what about Augustine? His church was happy Africans. Have you ever read... By happy Africans, what I meant was, if we're talking about like dancing in the pews and things like this, like I don't want to... Now, I'm not the Pope. Let me first kind of buffer. Let me say, I don't want to demand uniformity where the church isn't. I also understand that the church is universal. And so we should expect different devotions, different ways of expression. And I think that's good. And I think there could be something unhealthy in trying to artificially implement something

upon everybody and make them act in a certain way. I think there's truth to that. But I also think, well, we have a liturgy, and there's a way in which we should celebrate the liturgy. You would agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, so then it's like, where's the flex in the joints, I guess, is what we're asking, are we?

Yeah. Well, I mean, again, if we're talking about being traditional, we do need to go way back in the tradition. And I gave the example of St. Augustine. I mean, you've read St. Augustine describing his liturgies. They were very charismatic. There was jubilation, he called it. The tradition is living and it develops. Exactly. So is Africa, is that not part of the living tradition and development? If it did develop since that time, it would be. What's happening in Africa, that's a phenomena and no one's denying it. Even some of the liberal leaders, cardinals in Europe, they're looking at Africa and they're

saying, okay, we admit there's something good going on there. And so, that's part of the living tradition, you know? And the church has enough wisdom to not quench, you know, a movement that seems to be innocent and good-hearted. heart it. There's a difference between kind of a rebellion against church teaching or practice and kind of define what the church instructs and all that. And people just, why sing a two-minute opening song when you can sing a 20-minute opening song? There's nothing wrong with that. And again, is seeing a 20-minute opening. There's nothing wrong with that. And again, why stand like this and not even move your lips when you can be praising wholeheartedly with tears rolling down? And the church looks at that and says, I guess there's nothing wrong with that. Let them go. What I'm talking about, I guess, is when some kind of ideology comes to t-bone tradition

and make it something that it hasn't been. right? So I've heard certain priests say, well, if you really want to be traditional, like here's how mass was celebrated in the first century. I think that's a wrong way of thinking of it. I think tradition has developed over time. Yeah. And continuing to develop. So I'm with you if you say that there has been

this ongoing tradition within different parts of the world that isn't being kind of subverted. But I also think like when I was in Uganda, there was a lot of, and people who are watching this from Africa, please tell us your opinion. Because my experience was only beautiful. Yeah. I told my wife, I want to go just live there for a few months. The people were gorgeous. Yeah. There was a lot of temptation. There were a lot of people who were telling me that their family members were going to the evangelical churches because the evangelical churches were like this and that. Yeah. Yeah. We've heard that story in America and Australia in the 80s. Yeah.

Yeah. And so I want to agree with you. I also want to say there also could be something like we're trying to become more like the Protestants to give people a quick rush when we need to cling to our tradition. And I don't think that's the case. My understanding is that when the missionaries from Europe went to Africa, first of all, how do I put this? They say a lot of the priests who were saying, hey, go to Africa, were kind of the fearless ones, you know, the more bold and courageous priests who maybe were a little more on the prophetic side, and sometimes we don't like prophetic people, so we say, listen, if you're filled with all the zeal and big ideas, go to the missions. And they did.

And they brought the hymns from Ireland and other places, and they're still singing them today in Africa. And so many men are, you know, their name is Patrick, but they've taken them, and they've added a bit of that African, so that comes from the Catholics. You know? And so, I mean, again, what tensions or what influences at any particular period or in an area affecting people, you know, that's, I guess, complex, but I would say that, no, like, that original kind of spirit of praise and love of God and good news, again, when the missionaries went to Africa, they brought good news. The God who made you loves you, and He sent Jesus, and now the gates of heaven are open for you. And He's a good Father, and you can delight in Him and praise Him. And they caught that. And because it wasn't just

a message from a textbook, but the living God was backing the words of the missionaries, they were encountering the love of God, which transformed them. It changed everything, and they believed, and they shared, you know, the gospel with their family and all that. And so, it's a beautiful phenomena. And again, to me, it's a sign of hope. And I think we can learn from places where there's fire, we can learn from them, but we still, like even places where there is fire, it has to be pastored and it has to be, you know, properly cared for. So there's always...

Without a riverbank, you just have a swamp. Yeah, exactly. So there's always a possibility of abuse. And I think, generally the church is pretty good at discerning and letting good things continue. at discerning and letting good things continue and trying to... See, I think one thing with the church is because we're all about love, we can take quite a bit of time to kind of stomp out something that's going off the rails. And I think after Vatican II, I guess it was just a... It was a time of experimentation and in some parts of the world there was too much kind of freedom to do all kinds of weird experimenting in it.

I think we're kind of looking back and shaking our heads thinking like that was weird, you know, and in some parts of the world more so than others, you know. Well even like a charismatic, self-identifying charismatic like Ralph Martin, right? Would say that Vatican documents, second Vatican documents are beautiful. Yeah. A couple of ambiguities that have been cleared up. Yeah. He says what needs to be rejected is the spirit of Vatican too. Yeah.

And which I think is what you're saying too. There was a lack of oversight that led to these abuses. Okay, but maybe back to where we're more comfortable talking, the United States, Australia, Canada. I am seeing this move away from the guitars and the freaking tambourines. If I walked into a church and I saw that, I just, it would be terrible. Let me share an experience. Well, let me finish this and then get your take on it. I just think this is actually what's happening.

Now you could say this is a sociological phenomenon. Maybe it's not a movement of the spirit or you could call it a movement of the spirit. But wherever I go in Canada and Franciscan and Australia, there are people who might be open to that sort of thing, but they just don't want it in their liturgies anymore. And so the fire and the passion and the joy I'm seeing is this return to tradition. And I would think you must be seeing that as well, even though you minister in a charismatic parish. And so, am I right in that assumption? Yeah, so I would say you're kind of right. I think that Catholics, it's become a non-negotiable for faithful Catholics that we're going to be faithful to the liturgy, how it's meant to be done, and in particular,

you know, reverence for the Holy Eucharist. So, no silly stuff. I think the days of your faithful Catholics tolerating silly stuff are over, you know? But the thing is, is there's still kind of a longing in the hearts of the people, and I believe a grace of the Holy Spirit for exuberant expression or heartfelt expression that you can't tamp down, you know? And so the example I was going to give is I remember once I'd moved from, I forget what my exact situation was, but I was more kind of committed to more of a traditional, proper way of doing liturgy, kind of like you're saying, not as enthusiastic about the guitars, the tambourines and all that. And I was invited to, I think it was just hear confessions at an event. I walk into big room, full of young people, it was a youth event, and they were doing the, whatever you want to call it, contemporary praise. And when I walked in,

you could feel the anointing. And I thought to myself, I technically at this point in my life don't like that kind of music, but it's going right to my heart. And I can tell everyone in this room is being deeply touched by the worship. And I can tell that those worship leaders, they're not looking for attention right now. They are giving glory to God and there's something beautiful happening. So Lord, I repent for kind of writing this stuff off too quickly. They're not looking for attention right now. They are giving glory to God and there's something beautiful happening, so Lord, I repent for kind of writing this stuff off too quickly and praise God. So I guess I've kind of learned to have an openness to what the Lord is doing

because I do have, you know, I drop in on different events at different places, and there's a variety of ways people are worshipping, and I'm learning to see that the Spirit works in many ways, and I'm kind of a little more kind of okay with that, you know, unless maybe judgmental or strict or narrow in what I kind of whatever accept as, you know, the Lord moving. So, I mean, again, to me, the bottom line is, I think faithful Catholics are done with the silly stuff and the, you know, lack of reverence and the lack of orthopraxy or whatever, they're done with that. But I think you can't tell the Spirit what to do, you know, and if there's good manifestation. You give the example of tambourine. Just the mention of a tambourine kind of makes me cringe a bit because I was never big on tambourines. But I'll tell you something.

If the Holy Spirit wants to anoint a tambourine, oh, He will. And I'm not going to be the one to stop Him. Tambourines are mentioned in the Bible. And I know you're not doing this, but to just say, Tambourines, pathetic, we're done with that. Well, maybe we're done with that for the next five years, but five years from now, there might be an anointing of tambourines. I know it's a silly example, but I do think that the Lord does love to pour out a grace of childlike worship and delighting in Him, and it can manifest itself in exuberant praise.

And even within the context of a liturgy, we can see something of that, and I believe it is proper to the liturgy, you know, because of the long tradition of the Church. I mean, even in the Orthodox Church, I mean, aren't you related a bit to the Orthodox? Now I'm in Florida, I don't go to an Eastern Catholic church, but did for many years in Georgia and Ohio. Because you know the Orthodox, one of their criticisms of Catholics, I think at the time of Vatican too,

is you guys aren't into the Holy Spirit enough. You guys don't mention the Holy Spirit enough because in the Orthodox, a lot of the Orthodox tradition, the Holy Spirit is more central, you know, like becoming fire and experiencing the warmth of your heart, like going back to, you know, from the desert fathers. And even, you know, some of the Orthodox liturgies I've been to, like there's some energy, there's some elusiveness, there's bells and whistles, and there's a kind of, where if you contrast that... And not just that, Father, but in the South, where Orthodoxy is seeing a revival as Protestants are

becoming Orthodox, I've even seen on YouTube this reclamation of these old Southern hymns, but it's not in a hokey way, that is to say artificially imposed into the liturgy. They're using kind of the traditional chance, but they're bringing in their culture. An analogy I would use is imagine a mother and a father go away for a long vacation, and maybe they go on for months. And they come home and you've got the teenage children, the younger children, and they've just made a wreck of the place. And they haven't been brushing their teeth, they haven't been making younger children, and they've just made a wreck of the place. And they haven't been brushing their teeth,

they haven't been making their beds, and they're poor eating habits, and their parents just crack down on, we cannot have this anymore. And so there's this insistence on order, and we're getting back to things. Maybe that's what we're seeing among certain people with a more traditional bent.

We're fed up with the silliness, as you put it, and we've got no room for it anymore. We need to get things back on track, which is admirable, but can also go too far. And also, again, the Lord moves in different ways. Like for me, if I go to the traditional Latin Mass in Ottawa, I love it. It's great, you know, it's a beautiful manifestation and the Lord is working mightily in this place. But it doesn't mean that that's the only way or the only setting in which the Lord pours out grace and power, you know, and so there's a lot of people now encountering the Lord and how transcendent He is and how powerful He is in more traditional

liturgies, praise God. But it doesn't mean that down the road where they're doing things in another way, still showing reverence and that the Lord can't work mightily. And I guess the nature of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit loves creativity and oh, He said the example of the tambourine, the Holy Spirit, if He wants to anoint the tambourine and the guitars, all that, He will, you know, and, you know, to kind of... How do you gel that then with the second Vatican's call to give Gregorian chant pride of place?

Because someone could say, fair enough, Vatican too, but the Holy Spirit will do what he wants. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's awesome when even in a, you know, quote unquote, charismatic liturgy, there's some Gregorian chant. I don't want to see that. That just feels so, that feels so violent. That's to say there's a, there's two, it's like trying to marry two worlds and it's just awkward. The idea that you would have Gregorian chant and then you would have

some kind of Hillsong type. I just find that so distasteful. So say for example, say the opening song is maybe a Hillsong type. And by the way, I was praising the Hillsong two days ago in my car, driving down the road, so I'm okay, listening to praise and worship. Opening hymn is a song like that, after hopefully a beautiful homily and a reverent liturgy at the time of Holy Communion, a Gregorian song. It feels like we're trying, and again, this is just me. I don't speak on behalf of the church, all right? So you're asking my opinion, that's all this is. It feels like you're trying to awkwardly marry two worlds. Here's what it feels like. It would be like saying, well, you know, in the

Eastern tradition, you go to divine liturgy, there's certain elements that look very different. So what if we brought all of them together? So we'll do like praise and worship in the beginning, Gregorian chant, and then we'll do some kind of Eastern thing at the end. It's like, why? I don't understand how that's at all cohesive. Yep. Now again, see, the reality of parish life is you work with what you got. I was about to bring that up too. And so, you're... The rest of us who are terminally online have the pleasure of being massively ideological,

not having to deal with people. The priest has to deal with human beings. I have a brother who is a priest. He has four parishes. Extremely hard to find any worship leaders, little country parishes. So if he has a little worship team who does a Hillsong type song and then a song from the 70s and then a Gregorian, like everyone would be, oh, it was so beautiful. Totally. Again, there's the reality of the Holy Spirit works with what he's got.

There's a difference between, okay, the cathedral. What do we do at the cathedral? Well, we spend $100,000 for an excellent choir leader, and we select the right type of music to represent this diocese and the universal church. Great. But again, your typical parish, you work with what you got, you know, and the Holy Spirit is more than glad to work with whatever person will take whatever five loaves and two fish they have and lead some kind of worship.

And so, yeah, I think... Because I guess my experience with a lot of liturgies in the different places I've been, including the parish I'm in right now, we do kind of have a blend. Like, you don't know from one liturgy to the next exactly what kind of, you know, blend of worship. But the, you know, in your typical thing with a liturgy is that there's always at least one worship song that just you can feel the anointing. I know feeling is not a very popular world in Catholic intellectual circles, But the point is, is you just, you can,

you know, everyone is just being touched by this song. And sometimes it's surprising, and worship leaders will talk about that. They'll say, yeah, like we went through a song list and we just kind of chose this, this song at the last minute. And boy, it obviously, it just, it worked and it was powerful, you know? And so, but the thing is, there is a, there is place for leaders in the church or thinkers in the church or influencers in the church to steer in one direction and steer away from a certain direction to encourage a certain type of music, discourage another type of music. So it's not wrong for someone to say, hey, listen, the ideal liturgy is being celebrated

in this state, 800 miles away. That's how every parish should be doing things. And that's okay. It's good. Like Steubenville, I think, was a place a lot of the US and even the world looked to and say, wow, there's an example. Look at the songs. They published their own hymnal and they had a way of doing things.

And that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. Teisei was a center of monastic chant type ecumenism, inspired the whole world. So there's nothing wrong with that. But like I said, in an actual, typical pair setting, you work with what you got, and the Holy Spirit anoints, and He loves you. I think the Holy Spirit, He loves to anoint His little children, and especially the weak. And so when people are making their best effort, the Holy Spirit can anoint it.

And maybe that's part of the thing in Africa too, you know? They do just a wholeheartedness, a genuine love for God, and they express that, and it's like, wow, this is working. This is bearing fruit. This is making it at the kids. You don't have to drag them to church. They love to come to church, you know? So I guess there's a distinction because no one would deny that the Holy Spirit can use

whatever He wants, however He wants to do whatever He wants. No one would deny that. So there's what we have and there's what we ought to have. Maybe that's the distinction we have to make. And neither of you or I are in places where we're going to implement that from the top down, so we're just kind of noticing things. Because I'm in this weird position, right? Because I know people who are charismatic like yourself, and I know people who run prayer meetings in their house with guitar, and it's glorious. I love it. It's beautiful that they're doing that. Some of the most beautiful Christians I've met. And by that, I don't mean that in a patronizing way. I mean, they're fasting.

They spend an hour before the blessed sacrament every day, et cetera. I just feel like increasingly people are feeling about, and maybe I'm wrong, people are gonna let me know below. I'm sure they will. Increasingly, it feels like people are feeling about guitars at mass the way you felt when I said tambourine. It just feels cringy. And we just want our tradition back. I liken it to a child whose parents had spent the inheritance and the whole house was taken by the

bank and they were left with nothing. And I grew up, I didn't know what the rosary was, no one prayed it, there was no incense at my church, there was no call me father, it was call me Bob, that's what I, and maybe you grew up with that as well, where we were like deprived of our inheritance. And then I think a lot of Catholics, maybe even during COVID, when they had to be at home, for whatever reason, were online,

and they started seeing how more traditional liturgies were celebrated going, and they were kind of frustrated, like why was that never given me? So I'm seeing a lot of that in my circles. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I got that. I mean, I guess to me- And I think you can go too far on both ways. To me, guitar at mass, no problem.

If it's done well, no problem. Again, I give the example of my brother, he probably doesn't like me mentioning him on the podcast here, but he's got four parishes. If he had any devout soul who loves the Lord and could play the guitar well and lead some beautiful songs, it would just be the most wonderful thing. Do you know I once played Metallica for a communion hymn? I would like to apologize to Almighty God and all those who are present. I'm sure he's been to confession.

So the Lord, your sins, he remembers no more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I could see someone saying, well, the Lord can bless Metallica songs. It's like, yeah, well, he that's... Yeah. Fun times. Yeah. It's a wild time to be a Catholic. Yeah, fun times Yeah It's a wild time to be a Catholic. I know you for a while on your YouTube channel And you can talk about this as much as you want to we're kind of pointing to a lot of the crises in the church

And then I remember about five or six years ago Maybe I maybe I've got the timeline wrong. Maybe it was three years ago. You kind of came out went I'm gonna take a bit of a different direction. Do you wanna talk about that? Yeah, well, I mean, I think, you know, there was a point of crisis where, you know, I had to do, I don't like to name names if you don't mind, Joel,

but there was a very prominent cardinal in the US who, it was obvious, you know, it became known that he was just, you know, abusing seminarians, young priests for the longest time, and they kept promoting him. And they knew what He was doing. And they kept promoting Him, you know, and promoting Him. And at that same time, there was just more kind of revelations of a lot of impropriety of a certain type among the clergy and even, you know, hierarchy of the church. And a lot of us were wondering, what the heck is going on? You see, we were always under the impression that the bishops were chosen from the best of the best priests, you know, and they have this questionnaire, this secret

questionnaire I forget what it's called they put out, you know, and so they made sure that any priest who becomes a bishop is, I mean, he's obviously not perfect, you know, but he's exceptional. He's the best of the best. And the process they go through to select the bishops is very thorough, very rigorous, so that when a bishop is selected, again, he's very, very good. Of course, he's not perfect. Of course, he's human, you know, and struggles with weakness like every other human being. And then you would hope that among those bishops, those who would be promoted to become archbishops or have bishop, bigger diocese or become cardinals, they too would be the best of the best of the best. there was kind of a lot of us, including priests, were wondering, like, okay, someone in the Vatican is supposed to have the job of promoting the good

people and demoting the bad people. That's not complicated, you know. Why was that not happening? In this one particular case, and now other cases, there was a number of weird things going on. And even Pope Benedict himself, so I'm not making this up, he commented how in Germany in the seminaries, there were these homosexual cliques among the leaders of the seminary, you know. That's the Pope Benedict, I, he was Pope Benedict emeritus. And so, I think, you know, a lot of us were kind of not shy to say, not on my watch. You know, like, if there's something wrong with how things are working, I'm not going to stand back and just pretend everything's hunky-dory. I don't care about whether or not I get fired. I don't care about whether or not I never get promoted again for the rest of my life. I don't care what people think about me. To me, a shepherd fights wolves.

A shepherd who just stands back and watch wolves ravage the sheep is not a true shepherd. He's a hireling, you know? And so, for me, it was just a time where I don't care about anything. I don't care about losing my job. I don't care about what people think about me. I don't care about never getting promoted again. I'm not standing back and watching, you know, whatever, the sheep ravage or the wolves ravage the sheep. So I spoke out, I spoke out boldly. I spoke out, I might have still been in, I guess, maybe early 40s at the time. So I consider, I was still kind of young and crazy, you know, so it was, you know, kind of in that context. And a lot of people didn't like, well, you know, I'll tell you something, a lot of people liked what I was saying.

Some of the religious leaders didn't like what I was saying, but oh boy, there was countless Catholics, including a lot of priests, they were saying, thank you, thank you, thank you for speaking up, you know. And so, again, a lot of the faithful were very appreciative of my speaking out. And yeah, I got a little bit of trouble for it, you know, maybe some of the things I said and how I said them. But then I guess, I'm trying to think like the series of events, I guess there was some indication that there was some efforts to, I don't know what, you

know, have some more transparency. And so, I mean, I guess I toned that down. I don't know if there's something ridiculous. I'll still speak up. I mean, I've never felt like my mission in life is to kind of be the conservative watchdog for the church. You know, like some people, anything that happens, they're on it. They react to it. They complain about it. I don't like, I have nothing against people who do that, but I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that person. But if there's something ridiculous going on, because of what I feel the Lord has called

me to, I'll say something for love of the church. And I guess I've always looked up to, say, Mother Angelica. When a lot of this stuff started coming out, Mother Angelica had already gone home to the Lord. But I remember a number of people saying, Oh, can you imagine if Mother Angelica were alive today, she would be scathing. And so we appreciate people who have the courage to speak out. It has to be done. She had this deceptive facade of a gentle little nun though. I think people, you know what I mean?

They were, but she was a lion. But I think she got away with a lot because people are like, oh, she's just gentle little nun, not realizing just how incredibly courageous she was. But continue. No, I mean, that's about it. I mean, I- Did you, I mean, cause look, I have a small circle of people

in my life that I really rely on, because I've said things I've regretted on the show. I've been to confession about them. Our Lord's words about being judged on what we say makes me nervous. And I really want to take that with sufficient seriousness, while at the same time not letting it paralyze me. Because I think there's maybe two ways

we can fall off this boat. One is to just become arrogant and completely sort of defensive and unaware of our shortcomings when we're in this public light. But the other is to allow the accuser to have us curled up in a corner and we're no longer evangelizing. And the Lord has called imperfect people to evangelize. That's all He has after the Blessed Mother. So I have a small group of people in my life who I really depend on and I reach out to. And sometimes I say, you

went too far there. Here why, and I thank you. There's been times I've taken a video down or something like that. But, and I think that's probably healthy, and I'm sure a lot of people feel that way about their own things online or whatever, but you have religious superiors as well. So was that a humbling moment for you?

And they were like, change course a little here. Did you reflect and go, yeah, I think you were probably right here? Or was it, no, I think I am right, but I'll stop out of obedience. Yeah, I don't know if it's a question of whether or not I was right. I think it's just more a question of how intense

to be about something, how outspoken to be about something, how much to make something my concern, you know. So, I mean, that was a few years ago, so it's hard to kind of remember the details. I guess one of those things in life, you have to be who you are, you know, and I'm a bit of a scrapper. You know, if I see something that's wrong, in particular, I'm a priest, and so, you know, the church is my bride, you know, not treated properly or if I feel that someone needs to come to the defense of the bride, I will, you know, and that's not going to change. Like, I haven't decided, well, I'm not going to defend the honor of my bride anymore. I will always, with the grace of God, defend the honor of my bride anymore. I will always, with the grace of God, defend the honor of my bride. Now again, how you do that is, you know, kind of the place of discernment, but

and again, I think, you know, any faithful priest gets that. And so, you know, when I have spoken out about some of the, you know, kind of silliness in the church, you know, I get a lot of priests kind of reaching out to me saying, you know, thank you, because, you know, a man who lays his life down for the church as a priest, it's because he loves the church, you know, and he wants to see her honor upheld. Yeah. What is your advice to Catholics who do find themselves scandalized, rightly or wrongly? Sometimes we can have a wrong interpretation of things. And they're looking to leave the church. I'm sure you've encountered people who want to be faithful to Christ, but maybe for their particular parish or the church more universal, they feel like they have to leave.

Well, I mean, my response, where else shall we go? In the church, we have the Holy Eucharist, and the church we have the sacraments, and the church has given us the sacred scriptures. And the thing is, what person doesn't get the reality that the church is led by broken humans, and there's always been a degree of scandal and crisis and nonsense going on. So, it just seems, if anything, now tell me if you've heard this. During the time that we were referring to a few years ago when there was just uncovered some really weird stuff that concerned us all, some of us, including yourself, you know,

and others, we spoke out. We came to the defense of the church. We spoke boldly, you know, we were scrapping, you know, with our different platforms. So what I've heard is, there was a lot of observers in the bleachers watching, thinking, these Catholics, they believe in the church. They're fighting for the church. Some of them, like, they're about to lose their jobs, you know, but they're fighting boldly for the honour of the church. They're not leaving the Church.

They're just speaking out fearlessly, boldly, courageously. They're defending the Catholic Church. They're willing to die. And apparently, a lot of people were drawn into the Catholic Church by the witness of Catholics defending the Catholic Church. Have you encountered that or heard about that? Not specifically, but I have been edified at how many people right now seem to be flooding into the Catholic Church.

And my thought has always been, we don't help any prospective convert by pretending there isn't corruption. Oh, big time, big time. And I think there are some people in the church who would rather us don't talk about that, just focus on what's beautiful. A hundred percent, we have to focus on what's beautiful.

And yet, we can't pretend that these Protestants or atheists who are looking into the church aren't aware of the infighting. That's it. So it seems to me that just like with the sex abuse scandal, we had to go, yeah, this is horrendous. We had, I think, should be more angry than those outside of the church. And if they see us defending the indefensible or downplaying it or trying to redirect it, that's not okay.

So my thought has always been, please come, we need you aboard the bark of Peter. Things are on fire, but things are good. And this is a beautiful time to be a Catholic, and we need you. You have been made for such a time as this. Come join us." Yeah. But you were hearing from people specifically who said that. Oh yeah, no, I mean, people were just commenting or was hearing about people who, again, they were watching on... And it was also just this new phenomena of social media. It's

a whole new phenomena, which by the way, we do have a lot of people entering the Catholic Church. I wonder if it's because now we don't just have four or five mainstream media outlets that everyone's listening to all the time. There's tons of voices out there. And if someone wants to look at religion or spirituality, go online and hear people's arguments.

And I wonder if because the Catholic Church is the true religion, because the Catholic Church, everything she teaches is true, that people are able to hear the reason for being Catholic, the evidence, the arguments for the Catholic faith, and they're applying their own reason, and they're realizing, wait a minute, Catholicism, that's real. That's the true religion. And that's why people are joining the Catholic Church. So, for example, say someone from another religion. Well, if you're in another religion, how do you get the opportunity to learn about other religions? Well, now it's easy. Just scroll through.

I'm not on TikTok, but just scroll through TikTok. You might get some, you know, Christian or Catholic making an argument for Christ, and you might be like, huh. You might type Catholic into YouTube and find your good channel, right? Yeah, or your good channel. So I think. No, that's right. And to your point earlier, what's very edifying

is when you think of those big voices who are kind of rising above the fray, in my estimation, they tend to be solid Orthodox voices. We have Bishop Robert Barron, Father Mike Schmitz. Trent Horn. Trent Horn, Father Mark Mary, Ascension Presents, Your Good Work and things like this. Yeah, like that's cool. I don't know, and I've said this, I think this is a real sign of hope. I don't know of, maybe I know of one YouTube, successful

YouTube channel that I think is muddying the waters as far as sexual morality in the church. I'm not going to mention names, but I don't know of heretics who are promoting all sorts of wickedness who are just skyrocketing on the YouTube. And the one voice who you think might be muddying the waters if he or she leaves their comments open, it still leaves room for dialogue. So again, a thinking person can sort through, like even the big thing now is the legacy media, the mainstream, the huge outlets that were so influential. They're starting to crash a lot of them because they were pathetic, you know?

And like, should I say this? Like up in Canada, we have CBC. They don't leave their comments open on YouTube. Wow. What does that say? Monologue. They're not open to hearing. Okay, let me correct that. They don't leave their comments open on a lot of their videos. And sometimes they're touching on, you know, kind of a contentious issue,

but they're not letting the people speak. That's not going to help them. Where you got the Joe Rogan types who just, you know, like, kind of spewing out common sense, God forbid. Just spewing like, I don't listen to everything Joe Rogan says, I just catch little clips, I'm not endorsing everything about Joe Rogan. But the point is, is we're living at a time where there's the rise of common sense, and a person can now make their own judgments about what to listen to and what's true. Like I follow a lot of different news sources around the world and I love world news. And I find it remarkable how, yeah, you have a lot of these older big news source channels,

they're sticking to that narrative and you can tell that, oh, they're sticking to that narrative. And you can tell that, oh, they're not going to last too long. It feels like they're trying to make the world in their image. It's like there was a concerted effort to tamp down common sense, that men can actually have babies, and so on and so forth. Marriage can be this or that. There was a woman in California I saw online who apparently quote unquote married a train station, I think. There's a woman in Portland who apparently married a building, you know, like, and there's this, there seems like this diabolical effort on the part of mainstream media to tamp down anyone who would object to that nonsense. And it's just become increasingly difficult

for them to do that. I think some countries have an easier job doing it. I was just in Australia, for example. There's a lot of heroic, beautiful people in Australia, just as I know there is in Canada. And yet there seems like, it feels like most of the news outlets are all singing from the same sheet of music.

Except Sky News. Except Sky News, which from my vantage point seems to be talking almost primarily about American politics, although I'm sure they speak about Australian politics as well. But yeah, I mean, the rise of Sky News, that's an example. I mean, I don't know. I would presume that most of their listenership

comes from North America, but perhaps I'm wrong. But there does. I remember I was just in Australia two weeks ago with my wife, and we're watching the news. And I saw them talking about a particular group and demonizing them and writing them off, these young men. And I just thought, I don't believe you. They didn't let the people speak.

There was no fair assessment of their position. They just ripped them off. And I thought, it's possible. It's possible that what you're saying about them is true. And if it is, I also condemn it. But I don't know anymore. I thought, it's possible. It's possible that what you're saying about them is true. And if it is, I also condemn it. But I don't know anymore. I don't actually believe you.

I think you're lying to me. And I think a lot of people have felt that way. And now it feels like the people's voices is coming to the fore. I think the downside of this might be that we begin to question every mainstream narrative. Like the Holocaust and things like this, right? Where it's like, and the moon landing,

all sorts of things, where now like, it just feels like we have to question everything we have ever believed. Maybe gravity isn't a thing, who knows what that is. Yeah. Yeah, I would say that the comments section, I love the comments section, because to me, like, say, whatever, flat earth, you know, moon landing and all that, when you let the general

public kind of give their opinion and there's the ranking of what comments are liked and all that, I find those, the comments section is decent at kind of calling BS and kind of, you know, balancing things out. You know, like sometimes you'll get a news piece and it might be 90% good, but 10% is a little off. You'll catch it in the comments or something. Another example is, I remember, I think it was Australia, this weird big black odd ball just washes up on shore and they're like what is

this? So there's people like the authorities police showed up in hazmat suits with the you know checking for you know radiation. So they put this on the news comment that's an H-28 boy made in Russia here's a picture of it. Boom, that settles that. So they didn't really need to set, someone knew exactly what that ball was and gave a link to see what that ball was. And so, I mean, I'm not saying the comment section is perfect, but I just-

No, sometimes, I mean, very often, I think the most inflammatory comments get the clicks Humility very rarely goes viral. Okay, so I think this I think both I think okay But even if even if even if I'm right, yeah, and I think over time If you let people speak, yeah. Yeah, I think whenever you tell someone they can't think something or say something. Yeah, it just It gains strength and momentum in a way that you might not want it to. Whereas if you let it out into the open, the antiseptic light of truth. Yeah. It's a different world. It's a new world where every year we're making leaps. I don't

lift our leaps forward, but things are changing. You know I'm on a big kick about trying to get the young men to get out in the wilderness, eh? I've seen you, but you tell me, tell me about it. Yeah, so it flows out of a number of things. One of the things that flows out of it is we're all spending way too much time on our iPhones or iPads or just, you know, connected to social media. And when I say this, it's never in condemnation of people doing, you know, spending too much

time online because I have a problem. Like, it's so easy to just, what's new on my phone or whatever. And so, and also, I have a great love for the desert fathers, you know, and I have a great love for the outdoors. And so, one of the things I've been kind of feel the Lord has been putting on my heart is to just challenge the young men to try to get some time alone in the wilderness, but specifically unplugged. And so you leave your phone, you leave your technology behind.

And I came up with a specific challenge. It's three days. So take three days, leave the technology behind, and go out into the wilderness. And it's based on the example of our Lord Jesus, who spent 40 days in the wilderness, and John the Baptist, who spent time in the wilderness,

and Elijah, who's out in the wilderness, and St. Anthony of the desert, who spent time in the wilderness. And even up until, you know, one thing that really kind of encouraged me to kind of keep talking about this is St. John Paul II, as Pope, he would sometimes be brought to a little cabin in kind of some wilderness hills, and he would tell his security detail. He'd say, I'm sleeping outside tonight.

And he would take a woolen blanket and he would sleep under the stars as a pope. And I remember I was reflecting on this thinking like, what's up with that? And I just really felt like he had a sense of kind of soulfulness, like that he knew that in all the formality and structure of Vatican life, at one level, he could kind of lose his soul if he didn't kind of stay grounded just with, you know, earth and, you know, simplicity and even austerity. And so, again, he would sometimes go to the hills, and they say it really made the security nervous, like, you know, how was the pope last Pope last night well we think he was good he was out sleeping in the you know under the stars with just a woolen blanket but I just I just feel that our you know culture today we're just missing something just very real

and human and soulful. Now I'm not saying going out into the wilderness is the only way of experiencing this. Like, you're close to the beach here in Jacksonville. You take a walk on a beach when you're kind of trying to process something, and you're basically walking on the edge of eternity, because the ocean is an image of God and of eternity. Creation reflects the Creator.

And so, there's something about walking, maybe bare feet, on the sand, along the ocean, it does something to your soul that you just can't get in your living room or sometimes even in a chapel or something. I mean, obviously there's a special grace to being in the presence of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. I don't want to take away from that at all, but there is something like we're human and Adam and Eve, they were put in a garden to till the soil, to be close to creation and nature. And I've done a lot of that over the years. I've spent a lot of time alone in the wilderness and I love it. It does something for me and I think it might be you know, it does something for me. And I think it might be, you know, a remedy for,

you know, especially the young men, you know, like, guys, you can't be glued to your social media all the time. Like, that's just gonna rot you in the inside. And also your soul, your soul is longing for something else, something more, something deeper, something more real. And I just think that, you know, getting out into nature and just doing real stuff is a real, you know, remedy for a lot of the ache, the angst, the illness, the disease we're experiencing today. Bregman I want to tell you about Halo, which is the number one downloaded prayer app in the world. It's outstanding. Halo.com slash Matt Fradd. Sign up over there right now and you will get the first three months

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Bible stories for them at night. It'll help them pray. Fantastic. Hello.com slash Matt Fradd. Couldn't agree more. Now you're a big Pustinia guy, yeah? You have a cabin. Could you tell us about what is a Pustinia, first of all, and tell us about this cabin and how often you frequent it and what that's like? Well, Pustinia, that comes from the community up in, based in Canada, called Madonna House and their foundress, Catherine Doherty. It's a Russian word, which was desert. Yeah, desert. Yeah. And so that was her challenge. Her challenge was to spend 24 hours alone in a little cabin or a little room or a quiet place and bring nothing but a Bible and a loaf of bread and let God speak to you. And so it's basically, you're, here I am Lord. And a lot of people have, you know,

embraced that challenge. And some people make it a regular part of their life, you know, they might do one a year, one every three months, or even one a month or whatever. So that's called pustinia. And yeah, so that's kind of very much along the lines of, you know, what I'm kind of calling people to. I guess for me there's also the component of doing the kind of wilderness, manual labor type stuff that's good for the soul. I'll give an example. When I was first ordained, see, as a priest, you're supposed to do a five day, it's called a canonical retreat.

You're supposed to take five days, go away somewhere. It's supposed to be mostly in silence. It's meant ideally to be a silent retreat. So when I was first ordained, the typical thing is you find some monastery or convent or just a quiet place, you get a room, you do your thing. So I did maybe two or three canonical retreats at say a religious house where you get your room, you're told what the schedule is for the meals and usually there's a little grounds you can walk

around. So I did that. Usually by day two, I'm starting to get kind of restless and even a little depressed, you know, just kind of, you know. So I remember one year I said, okay, this year from on a canonical retreat, I'm going to try going to my cabin in the woods. I had a little 12 by 12 little wee cabin along a river, middle of nowhere. And part of it, it was, it's off grid, no running water, no electricity, no nothing. So you got to go to the river to get your water. You got to make a fire to cook your meals. You got to chop wood, you know, you take a bath in the river, all of that kind of thing. So, I did that like, you know, inspired by the Desert Fathers, trying to pray, spiritual reading, celebrate mass. And I remember the experience was this, so awesome at so many levels. It was so different than just being given a little room

with a bed and a table and saying, here, do your prayer thing. And there was a physical, but also just like, there's something about going to the river, getting some water, putting it over fire, boiling it so you can make a cup of tea, and then cutting up some wood. And there's something about doing those things, especially in a rhythm, day after day to stay alive,

that you just feel like, I was made to do this. Like this feels so normal. And because it feels so normal, it's life-giving, like it's fulfilling, you know? And I remember thinking to myself, like like I think I'm onto something here, like this is this is being human at a level that I've never experienced before and I could I could do this for weeks and maybe months, you know? And so since then I've I find myself getting out on a regular basis. Now I have a the 12 by 12 cabin that we built when I was first starting it got ruined by a flood on a river and so we built another bigger one my brother

and I and then I also a buddy of mine builds a hunting stand so he also built me a little wee cabin up high like 10 feet high so that's a place where I go for more, you know, deeper solitude because my, the new cabin does have, you know, water and solar and all that, but the little cabin is just kind of four walls and I love that stuff. And I guess not just kind of being there, but I just love the work you do, but always in the context of prayer. So again, inspired by the Desert Fathers and the monastic tradition, it's something I would love to see, in particular, young men experience.

Now, it's not easy. It's a battle to thrive in solitude, you know. But to me, if a man's willing to take on that challenge, he will find a level of peace and fulfillment that this world can't give. And the thing is, it's in the tradition. Again, the Old Testament, our Lord Jesus himself, not only did Jesus do 40 days, but it says a number of times, Jesus went off to desert a place and there He prayed. And then other places He spent the whole night on a mountain in prayer. And I think people see that, they can just see it intellectually,

like, oh yeah, Jesus, you know, there's symbolism to that. Yeah, maybe there's symbolism, you know, it's a sign of something. But the thing is, He knew what it was like. It's getting dark now, and He's alone, and He's on a mountain, and there's animals, you know, roaming around. Do you know what that feels like? There's something at a human level about being alone in the wilderness that's more than just up in the head, you know? It's a human experience with the cosmos, you know, and our Lord Jesus experienced that. And then like I said, John the Baptist, and then Saint Anthony and Saint Benedict, all these saints, Saint Francis of Assisi,

he received a stigmata, like towards the end of his life, he just felt he wasn't conformed enough to Christ. So he went to, was it Mount Averno or something? Yeah, something like that. I was just there. Oh, really? And he was alone there. He had a brother on the other side of Ravine, who I think checked up on him on a regular basis. But he, at the end of his life, he felt he needed to be alone in the wilderness on a mountain. And so to me, there's something as human beings, and I would say in a particular way as men, that we need to experience the call of the wild, because there's a spiritual dimension, the soul. Something happens to the soul that can't happen, I don't think, in civilization.

You know, there's something very earthly, very real, very deep, profound. And so, that's my challenge to the young men. There's something very earthly, very real, very deep, profound. And so that's my challenge to the young men. Leave your technology behind and go out into the wilderness and experience that. That's beautiful. I want to talk about this for a lot longer. So let's do that. I like what you said about the five-day silent retreat that you took.

I did something similar. I took an eight-day at a monastery and it was just what you said. Here's the kitchen. Here's where you get your coffee. There's something unnatural about that. Because I think part of the reason we men get kind of irritated and frustrated and then maybe condemn ourselves for it is because, well, no, what you're doing is still unnatural. You need to be doing something. Don't just sit in your room and then go to the chapel. Chop firewood, fetch the water, cook the food. I agree with you. That's, I think, a necessary component to this sort of thing. All right, well, we need to start something. When you encourage

men to do this and they say, well, that's great, but how do I do that? Where's a cabin I can rent to do this? What do you say? Okay. So first of all, the challenge, maybe before we say that too, listen, there's times in life where you're exhausted, you're totally spent, there's nothing better than going to a monastery, having a room, and having some quiet time. So I, you have to praise God for the monasteries

that offer that, we need that, I need that sometimes. So not taking away from the wonderful blessing of a retreat center or a monastery. So for me, it's men over 18. So I'm not telling a 14 year old to go off into the bush, over 18, I don't want to get sued. So at the age of 18, that's how old St. Anthony was and many other saints, 18, they went off.

So once you're 18, you're a man, you need to prove your manhood. Not to others, but to yourself. Today, I kind of winked at you because you're not supposed to say that, you prove your manhood not not to others but to yourself I don't today I kind of winked at you because you're not supposed to say that you prove your manhood you know and so but I'm saying no no you do need to prove your manhood to yourself you know you you're 18 now you need to show yourself that you're enough of a man to be able to let go of your technology and figure out how to cook some meals to

stay alive for three days in the bush. And I also always say, please prepare, be safe, be prudent, don't do anything stupid. And I also give the young men permission, not that they need my permission, but I say, listen, it's okay to send your family a daily, I'm still alive text. So when I put out this challenge, please be prudent, be wise. So young man, you're 18, Father Mark is telling you you need to prove your manhood, go out into the wilderness like Jesus and John the Baptist. If you don't have any experience at all and no access to wilderness, you have two options.

One is just to talk around, talk to some guys who might be maybe hunters or have, you know, access to land or do that type of thing and say, hey, like I want to spend some time in the wilderness. Can you set me up? Can you help me out? Can you give me a place? Can you give me some direction? So that's one option.

If you don't know anyone who can help you out in that way, the simplest thing is just go to a park and maybe an off season when it's not busy, you know, and just book a campsite, you know, for three days. Or like sometimes guys ask, well, does it have to be in a tent? And the answer for the particular challenge I'm putting out doesn't have to be in a tent.

It can be like some hunt camps are very rustic and simple. Some people also have a very simple cottage that is quiet, it's remote. Again there's not a massive big-screen TV or whatever. That can work too. The point is, you know, ask if you feel drawn to this, you know, ask the Lord, say Lord kind of help me to find a place. And like everything in life, sometimes it might take a few tries, you know, ask the Lord, say, Lord, kind of help me to find a place. And like everything in life, sometimes it might take a few tries, you know, like you might get a campsite, get a tent, and I don't know what, you just, you can't get through two days because you weren't properly prepared or whatever. Fine, like that's life. Go regroup, try it again, you know. and now, you know, other people do have access to wilderness.

And so, you know, some of the guys I've challenged, like they, again, they do have, you know, property or they're hunters, so they have access. And then for me, I challenge the men, try to make it a defining discipline in your life. So this is something you do as a man. Once a year you have your 72 hours, you go into the wilderness and you know how to do that. You're fine. And I like to tease the Canadians.

I say, listen, a real Canadian man can survive in the bush for three days. You know, like that's, and I think the Australians too, which by the way, a lot of Australians follow my channel and they like the outdoor stuff too because of the outback and also the walkabout challenge, you know, it's kind of a rite of passage. I encourage learning about the Desert Fathers because the Desert Fathers are a hoot, they're absolutely delightful, you know, they're very challenging. And yeah. Yeah, that's really good. Wouldn't it be neat if you did a shout out on one of your videos, inviting Catholics around the states or wherever else, who had a cabin on their property or who were willing

to put a simple pustinia on their property, and you could come up with a map Yeah of these different places where people could go online Pay the money. Yeah to rent the place. Yeah sign a waiver. So you're not sued Yeah, it'd be cool if we did something like that. Don't you think I thought of something like that for me? The ideal is that every parish has a hermitage So, you know, there's a place where you can go ideal is that every parish has a hermitage. So, you know, there's a place where you can go to be alone, you know. There's no way a parish is gonna take on that kind of risk.

I know, that's the problem. That's why I'm thinking like men who have acres of land, like, yeah, I'll throw up one of those wooden shed things on my property and that'll be part of this network of postiniers. And men could go on your website and they could look up a postini in their area and book three days. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I'd love something like that. I mean, the sad thing is in a world of lawsuits and litigation and all that, everything is complicated. Like one option too is if you had a group of men who were kind of just said, okay, let's say 25 of us each pool in a thousand bucks, let's get an acre of land in the middle of nowhere for whatever, 20 grand, let's put a little shack on it and then it's a shared use. I'm going to give someone a mission in life right now. Let's start not Airbnb, but like airpostinia.com. Someone go buy that URL.

And maybe it isn't prudent to have a priest running this, because you don't want people to get mauled by bears and it come back to haunt the companions of the cross. But someone could run this. Someone could do the legal stuff. You sign a waiver, you pay your money, you show up. That would be amazing. Because I think a lot of people go on Airbnb

and they just look for like a remote cabin and they do have those sorts of things. Airpustinia.com. I want that 24 hours after this episode airs. I expect someone to have bought that and to be running it. That could be such a beautiful thing for souls. Exodus 90 should think about buying that. That would be amazing.

I love that. I was talking to Father Ken Barker. You know who that is? Not sure. He's the founder of the missionaries. No, no, that's you. He's the founder of, no, no, that is not you. Missionaries of God's love. Okay. Is that Australia? It is Australian. Ken Barker is an Australian, wonderful priest. I love him dearly. I've had him on the show. And he's similar to Father Bob Bedard in that both of them were blessed by the charismatic renewal and then started communities of men.

So in Australia there's a community of awesome men. And anyway, when he was on the show, he told me that every month before he plans his calendar, I think he has an overnight or two away on a retreat. And it's just the case that you've got to tell your schedule what to do, or somebody else will tell you what your schedule will be. And so I love this idea of once a year doing this, maybe once every two months, you know, getting a couple of nights away. I like this. It also, it sets men's sights on something else and something out of this world, something of the kingdom. Like again, in life we can have all kinds of goals or priorities or things that

preoccupy us. And again, I think in our social media world where we're so kind of glued to our screens, you got to have something else to aim for. Now I I mean, I know some guys, they do aim, they have educational ambitions or work ambitions, or they're trying to learn skills or sports or whatever. That's good, it's good to have something like that. But I think the thing of putting that challenge out, it gives a, like for me, when I had my conversion as a teenager, had someone, you know, especially

in particular, an older kind of Catholic man said, hey, if you're going to follow the Lord, you might want to consider going out to the wilderness like he did. And you know, the challenge is, do you think you could spend 72 hours, three days alone in the world? It's like for me, I would have liked that. I like a challenge. I like a specific challenge, you know? And so, like I said, that's kind of part of the vision

is getting young men, especially who have a zeal, like what do I do? Like what do I do now? There's a fire. Like I know I'm supposed to, I guess, evangelize. I'm supposed to study. What do I do? You know?

And I do believe that young men who are fervent for the Lord, I do believe they do need to imitate Christ and spend time alone. And I do believe the ideal is that some of that time alone is in creation, in the wilderness, you know, in the desert, whatever wilderness you have close by. And like I said, I think there's something that our souls yearn for that can only be satisfied by the creation that God created. Like for me, when I'm alone in the wilderness, I feel like a kid in the playground God the Father built for me. You know, like He made this. And again, whether it's, you know, along a remote beach somewhere or in the Arctic, you know, in the snow or the Australian outback, like this is,

our daddy made all of this and it's beautiful. And it's, there's something, you know, sublime about being in creation. And there's a human of again the wind, the sun, the sound of crunching snow or the, you know, moving the greenery to get through the bush. There's something about that that we, it's our environment that we were made for and you know, keeps us connected. And again, if it's done in the presence of God, to me it's just sublime and it's good. Yeah, an analogy I'm thinking of is if all you did was eat junk food, fast food and soda, and then you started eating whole foods, you would go, oh my gosh, this is what food is. This is how I'm supposed to feel. And it's almost like what you're saying is this is what it does to the soul. It kind of wakes you up. And I do think that technology is like a drug. And by technology,

I'm using that in a very limited modern sense. Like you are perhaps of the internet, the phone, the screen. It drugs us. And I make a practice of giving up my phone and computer and Apple Watch on Fridays and getting a Monday. Something I'm doing more and more. I just did it this past weekend. I actually have a safe in my bedroom where I put it in and then I give my key to my daughter. Like give it to me Monday.

If I ask for it sooner, I need you to shame me. And you know, it's so wonderful. So obviously this is different to what you're saying. But my mind just starts to slow down. There's anxiety at first. I need to respond, I need to email, I need to tweet. And then you realize you don't need to do any of those things. You can just rest. And something happens, right? Where I can now read, I can now contemplate, I can now potter about. It's wonderful. You know, if people can't do it for an entireate, I can now potter about. It's wonderful. It is.

You know, if people can't do it for an entire weekend, I really recommend people trying to make a practice of that at least one day a week, maybe every Sunday, Saturday night, give your phone away, give everything that can access the internet away. Because we live in this constant state of, did someone reach out to me? Do I need to respond? To be in that state continually, I need to respond. That's not good. It's not. And when you disconnect from technology, like for me, because I'm embarrassed to say, and the thing is I do try to compartmentalize my time online.

You know, like I tried to not be online all day, although I could. You know, again, you got news, you got people text messaging, you got to check up on emails, you got, you know, whatever, the YouTube ministry, all that. But the point is, is when I disconnect, I could feel something in my brain kind of toning down, you know, like you feel like after a day without technology, you feel different. Two days after technology, you feel more different. And you can't help but to think like,

I think what I'm, how I'm feeling now, it's probably better than the buzz, you know, or the distraction. Yeah, and by day three, I find there's now anxiety having to re-enter internet land. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to. Yeah. Day one, I kind there's now anxiety having to re-enter internet land. I don't want to. Day one, I kind of want to.

Day two, I'm anxious and maybe want to. Day three or four, I'm like, I don't want to go back there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But then there's also the quick pleasure of it that I do want. I do want to listen to that podcast. I do want to send that text message to that friend or what have you.

But I think it's really important that we detach ourselves from the teat of the internet. My gosh, we're all just so hooked on it. And it is like a drug. It'd be like if you were drunk constantly and then sobered up. And you're like, oh, this is how life's supposed to be. For many of us, because I know that you can use the internet responsibly and that people do that.

I understand that. But I think for a lot of us, we know the experience of it feeling more like a drug and then you slowly come off of it and just like you in the wilderness, you're like, this is how I'm supposed to be. And in particular, again, when we're dealing with young men who've encountered the Lord and they really want to follow the Lord Jesus wholeheartedly, you know, they're asking, like, how do I live as a Catholic, you know, devoted to the Lord Jesus? Again, my response would be that you do need to experience solitude, like the Lord Jesus and all the, you know,

many other saints I mentioned. And you do need to experience detachment from the devices. And so, again, I do present it as optional because I'm not the type of person to say everyone needs to do exactly this. I mean, we're all different. You do what the Lord has called you to do. But I feel that young men, this is something they really need to consider. Well, we know we need it. I think any young man who listens to you right now is like, yes. You don't even have to be that convincing. You don't have to tell people what to do. We know that that's what we want. We just need airpostinia.com to be established so that we can then just, I did this with my son, Peter, who I love.

I rented a Airbnb up in Ohio and it was a very simple cabin, one bedroom cabin. It had a rain tank, which is how I had running water, but there was a bucket under the sink to catch the refuse. We had a wood fire stove and we just spent a couple of days just chilling. It was so cool. And you saying this to me, I'm like, why haven't I done that again? We know it's good for us. Why don't we do what's good for us? We're idiots, maybe. So again, that's the specific challenge. If there are young men are saying, hey, give me a challenge, that's it. Three days alone in the wilderness, 72 hours,

no technology, you can send your family a daily, I'm still alive text. I wrote a little book called In His Zone. So when I was first ordained, I had the brilliant idea, see, I wanted to experience some deeper solitude. And I also wanted to put some of the wisdom of the Desert Fathers to practice. So I had this brilliant idea to build a raft and stay on the raft for eight days. And so that little book kind of, it's just a short little book, but it kind of summarizes

the spirituality of being alone in the wilderness, you know, and it's concise and I tell the story of my eight days and so, I'm not trying to sell a book here, but if a person, if a young man wants to kind of catch the vision or kind of get a sense like what is he talking about? I talk about the desert fathers, because the desert fathers, they had to give practical wisdom to being in the desert, because it's more than just reading the Bible and saying prayers. They say the first demon you encounter when you set up camp in the desert, it's not the

demon of lust, it's not the demon of whatever, it's not a dragon appearing to you. They say it's the demon of laziness. As soon as you set up, you're all of a sudden, you're like, what do I do now? Irritability. And so they teach about, you have to come up with a rhythm. If you keep the rhythm, the rhythm will keep you. And also in terms of food, like the first time I tried,

well, one of the first times I tried Xana Time in the wilderness, this is embarrassing. I got the bright idea. I didn't need to bring any food. I heard about people doing like a fast, or just didn't eat anything, so I didn't bring any food. I almost starved to death, you know? How many days were you there? I think I was, well, I was supposed to stay longer.

So- Were you dropped off? What did you do? I worked at a herb farm that had a pustinio, and it was before I had to go back to the seminary. So I think I might have booked five days. So I kind of stayed there in the pustinia, no food, and I think by day, I don't know, the second night I was starving and they had a little garden. So in the middle of the night, like a thief in the night, I went to their garden to see if I could find some food. And I was

so afraid that their dog would come out. And the dog did come out and it kind of came up to me and jumped on me. Didn't bark, just jumped. And I knew its name. I was trying to be nice. I felt like a thief stealing food because I was hungry. Very interesting experience, by the way. So that's part of the whole thing of getting into the wilderness. You need to know what it's like realizing that I can't build this fire because it's too windy. I might be hungry tonight, but that's besides the point. So the desert fathers say, listen, yes, fasting's good,

but don't be stupid, be wise. So their thing was like a lot of desert fathers would only eat every second day. But a lot of the the the fathers say, listen, eat once a day at the end of the day. That's fine. Don't overdo it. So the point is when you go into the wilderness, the wisdom is obviously don't just bring whatever pops and chips and junk food, but get some decent food and eat well. That's part of what prevents you

from going crazy in the bush is, you know, so basic, and I, you know, I don't recommend people necessarily eat just one meal a day if they're not used to that. Back then, I think that was more common. So again, don't be lazy, come up with a rhythm every day, eat well, you have to work. Like you could summarize, like if a young man says, okay, well, if I just go out alone

in the wilderness for three days, what do I do? You could summarize by saying, just go work for three days. That's what keeps you kind of from going crazy is applying yourself. And in the context of the work, you're talking to God, you're experiencing His presence, and obviously you'll have your prayer times and all the other things. So work is an essential.

Now again, I mean, maybe a person could do hiking or other things instead, but the point is if you just go and pitch a tent and think you're going to sit in the tent for three days, you'll go nuts. And maybe it's good for you to experience that, you know? Again, and so the little book, it's called In His Zone about my eight days on the raft, I go through seven principles for thriving in solitude. Yeah, so that I'm not just sending, like if guys are looking for like wisdom, that's good. No, the rhythm thing is really helpful. When I went on my eight-day silent retreat, I took

two different books with me. I had this habit of waking up, having a coffee, a cigar in the morning, saying my morning prayers, my night prayers. I would say by day five, I was embarrassed, but I was kind of desperate for human interaction. I was like, please talk to me somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, okay, so how did you do that on the raft? What was your rhythm on the raft? Yeah. So on the raft, it was funny. Like back then I was really idealistic about stuff. No watch. I didn't have a clue what time it was. I said, cause you know, people talk about you just being one with nature. So I said, there's the sun. I can, you know, I'll get up basically when it starts to be light out and I'll go to bed

when the mosquitoes come out, which is right before the Sun goes down you can't be outside you know like you have to go into your tent because the mosquitoes are vicious so you would come off your tent come off your I had a tent on the raft okay yeah little little I had to like you yeah no I know I remember the Ontario the backs will come out just feasting on the mosquitoes because they were thick you know but they wouldn't come and that's part of the reason I was on a raft is because a raft, I could get it out into the water and as soon as you get a breeze, there's no bugs. But once it gets dark, doesn't matter where you're on the lake, the mosquitoes come out. Yeah, so my rhythm was I'd get up and I

would celebrate mass first thing in the morning because there'd be hardly, most likely time for no wind. It's hard to celebrate mass on a raft if it's windy. So I'd probably have to celebrate mass on a raft period, let alone it being windy and choppy. So I'd get up, I'd celebrate mass, I'd take some prayer time and eventually I'd have breakfast. And again, making breakfast is a little more work because I had a little firebox, so you know, you get some water out of the lake. How big was this raft? 12 by 12.

OK. Yeah. I built it. You know those big blue barrels they use at concerts for garbage and that? Yeah. I don't know if I got them free or $15 each. I think I used six of those.

I got a bunch of lumber from a guy who's got a lumber mill. Built it myself. And I did have a little two horse gas mortar on the back of it because I had to park it sheltered from the wind and the wind changes. So at night if the wind, I'd always find a sheltered bay and I would anchor to like there was these logs floating, you know, because I didn't want to be caught in a storm, like the wrong side of the lake in a storm. And I also see the most, it's interesting,

a lot of people know this, but not everyone, the most dangerous thing out on a boat is the sun. If you're in the open sun all day, the sun is the first thing that will just drive you crazy or that's hardest to handle. So I had to have the raft a lot of the, you know, close to a shoreline where the sun was giving some shade, you know? So I would kind of, I'm trying to think the rhythm, like I know part of the rhythm was I'd take a swim out every afternoon and at one point I would get off the raft to gather wood for my fire

and between cooking meals I did a lot. You know Ralph Martin's book, Fulfillment of All Desire? It's about that thick, read the whole thing. I had a lot of time for reading. Excellent book by the way. People should get it. Yeah, yeah. That was a good time. I did it three summers in a row. The last summer, I think I did 11 days on the raft.

Yeah, I loved it. Did you ever encounter boats going by and wondering what you were doing? I think there was just of the three summers I did it, I think there was just... Because it was a very remote lake. It was hard to get to even with a little four by four and the fishing wasn't good in it. If I would have gone to a lake with good fishing, there would have been fishermen.

I was going at an off season where the fishing wasn't good, but in the three years, there was one day where I saw a guy put his boat on, he had a son, and they were motored around for maybe an hour or two on the other side and then left. So that was the only... And you brought enough food with you? Yeah.

And again, that's to me, part of being a man is you can pack up a bunch of food and go live in the wilderness for a few days. A Canadian man, to me, Canadian men should be able to, like say you're a man in Canada and I don't know what, work gets shut down because, I don't know what the computer blows up and say, okay guys, you got the week off and you're like, I don't know what to do.

Well, you should be able to say, I'll grab a few things, I'll go in the bush for a few days. A Canadian man should be able to do that, no problem. And so that's why I say, hey, once you turn 18, learn that skill, you know? And again, if you're a man of God, you're imitating Christ, and you can encounter God in a way, and also encounter your own humanity, you know, in a way that you just can't encounter in other settings, you know? Yeah, so the rhythm, okay, so you would wake up, you'd celebrate Holy Mass, you would read books.

That's it, pray. So the main work was, oh, I also recreated. So I snorkeled every day. I tried to catch fish. There was fish in the lake. It was just impossible to catch. I fished all week, all the time. I had lines out, like a line out. It's legal. You just put, and the thing is, I remember like some places the trout were surfacing over and over and over again,

but the thing is I was there, I think I did it in July or August, it was July I think, the lake is so full of bugs and life that it's like you're trying to catch a fish and the fish is at a buffet, all you can eat buffet. There's so much food in the lake for the fish. Your worm just doesn't look appetizing to them, you know? And you could see like there was these little tiny shrimp, like the lake was full of these little, I don't know what they were, and I'm thinking like I'm sure the trout are just feasting on these like, you know, so I didn't catch any fish, I would

love to catch fish, but the flip side is that's why I had the whole lake to myself, like guys, you see see when guys start catching fish on a lake, the word gets out and everyone goes to the lake. When no one's catching fish on a lake, word gets out. You know, like say the guy who went with his son, he probably told his buddies, yeah, why not go into the lake and catch anything. And like, okay.

And so what's your mindset like after how many days did you spend each year? The first time was eight. I think the second time was eight again. And the last time I think was 11. What's that like, you know, I know relatively speaking, eight days isn't that long. Okay.

What's it like re-entering? Very good question. In all honesty, life-changing. Stuff I was struggling with before, not struggling with again. Just, just, just months of afterglow to the point where I'm thinking, maybe I should be doing this twice a year. It's one of those things, we know things are good for us,

but you only have so much time also, you can't just be running off to the wilderness three times a year for maybe what you can. But yeah, for me, three times a year for maybe what you can, you know, but yeah, like for me, an experience like days like that in the wilderness, life changing, like just really, it gets the demons out, you know, it resets everything. I mean, I'm not saying you're suddenly perfect after you're probably, if anything, you're probably a little grumpy, you know, because you didn't sleep as well for eight days. You know, what the point is, is life changing.

But it took me time to get to a place, like the first, when I did the eight days, I had practiced or I had tried many times before and failed. Like the time I was stealing, I went to the family's garden to get food in the middle of the night, what happened is the next day I went to the family. I said, listen, I didn't bring any food. I'm really hungry. So they gave me some food and then that day my brother shows up and he says, hey

Mark, you got the time wrong. Your retreat starts tomorrow. And I'm like, thank God. And so I didn't, so but the point is, and then the first, the first night I actually did a one nighter on the lake on the raft and I didn't know about anchoring in a sheltered base. So I fell asleep and that's when I woke up, I was on the other side of the lake. I thought that's probably not safe to be sleeping as I'm just drifting across the lake because, you know, so I learned like it took a lot of, not a ton, but it took some practice. And that's the sad thing. A lot of us were not willing to make the mistakes and put in the time and put in the

effort to get to a place where we can thrive in solitude. Because the image I use is that solitude, because the image I use is that solitude, it's like a library. There's a lady, lady solitude is like a librarian. She's really nice, but she's mean. If you're fidgety and noisy, she'll throw you out. So same thing, solitude. If you go into solitude and you're not willing to enter into the stillness of solitude, you'll be like, I can't take this. And you'll get out.

And I know a lot of examples of guys, you know, they'll try a retreat in solitude, and they'll say, after 24 hours, I was going nuts, this is crazy, I got to get out of here. And the monastic tradition says, that's Lady Solitude, she kicked you out. You weren't willing to enter into the rhythm of creation, of God's creation, the stillness. And so, you have... She'll pummel you. Yeah. This lady solitude is, that's not your phrase then? It comes from somewhere else? Because...

Probably the monastic. Lady philosophy, from the consolation of philosophy. I was just thinking, you should write a book, Consolation of Solitude, Lady Solitude and What She Has to Teach You. I'm so glad you're doing that. Do you have men reach out and tell you their experience? Has this, have any men taken you up on the offer? Again, speaking of comments, I've had some comments in my comments section of guys doing it.

After I wrote the book, in his zone, I heard back from guys who read the book and then closed it. It's okay, off they went into the wilderness. Each guy in his own way. Like some guys, they went hiking for a few days or whatever. And in my parish, three young men have done the three days. Another one I think attempted it,

but I think as the time ran out, he's gonna try again. There's another guy who's ready to do it or wants to do it. So yeah, guys. And the three young men in my parish who did the three days, they all had a very powerful experience. It wasn't easy, I don't think, for any of them. But all three of them, it was before going out on mission. Because the idea, too, is,

when I was sharing with the young men in my parish about this, St. John the Baptist, before he was a voice, he was silent. Before Jesus began his mission, he was filled. He went to the desert to eat the scroll, you know, eat the scroll, the Word. And so, these two of the men who did a three-day, 72 hours alone in solitude, they went on net. You think of... Sorry, I was just, real quickly, I was going to insert also Moses on the mountain before bringing down the Word of God. Yeah. But these men, yeah, they heard the went on net. You think of, sorry, I just real quickly was going to insert also Moses on the mountain before bringing down the word of God. But these men, they heard the call to net.

So two of them, they knew they were going on net and they felt, you know what, before I go on, and I kind of told them, I said, listen, before you go on mission, you need to have a word from heaven. Like you need to have something to give the people. And the tradition is you go to the wilderness and the word of the Lord comes to you in the desert. You know, you're given a scroll to eat and then you're commanded to speak to my people, you know. And then the other young man, he went to work with the Damascus. Yeah, they're fantastic.

So before going to the Damascus, he spent three days in solitude. I'm really glad you're promoting this. Yeah. Awesome. How many men are signing up these days for the Companions? Yeah, good question. We got kind of a trickle of maybe two or three or four every fall who join us.

And we've had quite a few ordinations lately. Thanks be to God, we're ordaining guys and so, yeah, we're very blessed that the Lord continues to send young men, very, very good men too, and so, yeah, it's growing, it's, you know, slowly, but surely. Are there good things happening in Canada right now? Well, one of the brightest lights in Canada is CCO, Catholic Christian Outreach, so kind of university campus outreach. They're booming, you know, they have a lot of missionaries, and they're a lot of people,

they're doing a ton of evangelization and leading people to encounter Jesus. They're not complicated. They don't, you know, make things complicated. They're simply calling people to a relationship with Jesus, you know, and in all simplicity, and then discipling them into, you know, walk with the Lord, being good Catholics and all that. They're big into events with Eucharistic adoration and praise and confession. They have conferences, they have missions, so they're a real shining light in Canada right now. I think we are experiencing some of the phenomena in Canada of just people all of a sudden just being interested in Catholicism, despite all the strange things,

weird things going on in the world and sometimes even in the church, you know, people, like, priests have commented, yeah, I'm just getting random, oftentimes too, young men just showing up and saying, yeah, just, you know, interested in Catholicism. So, yeah, there's good things. You have a, and for those who, I'm sure most people are aware, but you have a popular YouTube channel, which people should check out. We'll link to it below.

Other than wilderness type things, what have you been talking about lately that's been resonating with folks? Yeah, well, I kind of, you know, touch on all kinds of things. I mean, I post some of my homilies. I've been kind of, you know, mentioning it's a bit of my kind of interest or whatever, is just the kind of warnings that have been coming from different Marian apparitions of coming chastisement, you know? The big one that kind of shook the world was Our Lady of Kibbeho. So in 1981, the Blessed Virgin Mary started to appear to some young people in the, you know, remote country, East Africa of Rwanda, and these young people, girls in a private,

a girls boarding school, the Blessed Mother was, you know, giving messages of her love and the call to prayer and repentance, but also warned that if the people of Rwanda didn't get rid of the hatred in their hearts, rivers of blood would flow through Rwanda. And Rwanda was, I think, the most Catholic country, like almost 98% Catholic. They call it the Jewel of Africa. The Catholic Church called Rwanda the Jewel of Africa. But it was two main coexisting tribes, the Hutus and the Tutsis. And everyone knew there was tensions.

So the Blessed Mother appears and warns that if they don't get rid of the hatred in their hearts, rivers of blood would run through Rwanda. That was in 81 when the apparitions began. I think it was 94, the genocide broke out. And if you look at the documentaries, they threw, about a million people died in a hundred days in the genocide. And if you look at the documentaries, they threw so many dead bodies, like the Hutus were killing the Tutsis, mainly with machetes and stuff. They threw the bodies in the rivers.

And you can see the documentaries, there were so many bodies. The rivers were red with blood. And also in the streets, I mean, you can trickles of blood. So it was a fulfillment of a warning. It was a desperate plea. Like, if you study the messages of Kibbeho, the Blessed Virgin Mary was begging day after day, just pleading, pleading, pleading for the people to repent and get rid of the hatred. for the people to repent and get rid of the hatred, you know. The plea from heaven was so insistent and heartfelt and clear.

And they say there were so many miracles around the apparitions of Our Lady in Cabejo that you know how some apparitions are skeptics? Oh, I'm not sure about that. They say Kebeho, there's no skeptics. Even the most hardened skeptic knew, okay, heaven's speaking to these children. And they say some people responded to the plea from heaven, you know, mainly to, you know, obviously to repent, to love, and also to pray the rosary. Our Lady was hoping that the people would all gather into small groups and pray the rosary. But not that many people responded. You know, I think there was a sense of, well, it's symbolism and does she really mean this? And soon, maybe in a hundred years,

this could happen. It was just kind of a, and unfortunately, and apparently this was acknowledged by the leadership of the church. There was kind of a, the leadership of the church was kind of like, well, be careful. We don't want any sensationalism. Let's not get all hyped up about this. Let's be careful. Let's be prudent. Let's discern. But they say after the genocide, there was a sense of regret and even embarrassment and shame on the part of the church leaders. They said it was so clear that the Blessed Virgin Mary was begging for conversion and warning. And they were asking themselves, like, maybe in the future when heaven warns us, maybe we should take a little less time for all this discernment and just respond.

respond. You know, even if we're not, you know, and the thing is, is even if, see, an apparition doesn't have to be officially 100% approved to respond to the message. And a good example of that is in Argentina, where the Blessed Virgin Mary was, and this is approved by the church, the apparitions are related to St. Nicholas in Argentina. In 1983, the Blessed Mother began appearing to a woman named Gladys. But the bishop said, if this is true, I want a sign. And there were all kinds of miracles, but there was a boy who had a tumor the size of an egg, and he had to go for surgery. If the surgery was successful, he wouldn't die, but he'd still be left kind of with some

handicaps. But if the surgery wasn't successful, he'd die. And the bishop, you know, was called on to, you know, to pray for this boy. And so, I think they asked the bishop to anoint the boy. So, the bishop sent his vicar or something. He said, go pray for that boy, give him the anointing of the sick and invoke Our Lady of the Holy Rose, Your Saint Nicholas. Because that's how she was appearing under that title. So the priest goes, gives the boy the anointing of the sick, prays for the Lady of the Holy Rose, Your Saint Nicholas.

Tumor's gone. Before the surgery, they checked, there's nothing there. There was just a hint of a scar where the tumor was. So what does the bishop do? See the Blessed Mother was asking, buy that piece of land. The visionary saw a beam of light come down from heaven and go into the land, into the ground along a river. And the Blessed Mother said, I want a church built here.

What does the bishop do after the boy is healed? Buys the land, builds the church. Did he approve the apparitions? No. He said, this is still under investigation. They would pray, I don't know what particular, I guess in St. Nicholas, huge gatherings, thousands of people. The bishop would show up, celebrate Mass. He wouldn't affirm that these were authentic, but he would affirm the call to prayer. He was encouraging the good fruit. So that's an example. You don't have to officially approve something to respond. So in kibbeho, that's your point, right? Before it was even.

In kibbeho, the sense is, they should have said, okay, this is still under investigation, we're still studying this, but it seems like it might be a good idea for everyone to pray the rosary and you know what, start forgiving your neighbours and let's reconcile, let's get rid of the hatred. There should have been an urgent response to prevent that, you know? And so, there's, you know, there's a number of Marian apparitions recognized by the Church to different degrees, where our Blessed Mother is warning that the world is on a precipice. And if the world doesn't turn back to her son Jesus and repent of our sinful ways, bad things are going to happen in the world, you know?

And so part of my thing is I'm trying to get that message out to the world without, you know, being too, I don't know what, alarmist or hysterical, but just I do feel that, say in families where the priority isn't to pray together and go to church and pray the rosary, and the kids are probably not going to continue to love God and go to church. Those families need to repent. The parents need to wake up and realize, wait a minute, there's nothing more important than the salvation of the souls of our children. And if we don't make God the number one priority in our lives, we're going to be accountable

for that. And so, we're going to be accountable for that. And so, we do need to start going to church every Sunday. We need to start praying together as a family. We need to start living as well as we can as Christians, at least trying, you know. And the whole world needs to put God first, you know. And so, and if we don't, and especially with, I mean, things are being corrected a little bit in the U.S. under the new administration. I mean, there was a lot of really weird stuff, you know, the new sexual ideologies and all that weird stuff. But if we don't turn away from these abominable things that go totally against God's design you know, design and order, it seems like, you know, there'll be chastisement.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. How has the Holy Rosary played an important role in your life, and why should people pray it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I love the Rosary. My family prayed the Rosary together very often. Again, the messages from heaven, including say Fatima, it was just a recurring theme, pray the rosary, and Medjugorje pray the rosary, Cabejo, St. Nicholas pray the rosary. And so, for me, I'm trying, I try to respond by praying a daily rosary. Some days, for whatever circumstances, I might only be able to pray a decade. Some days, it might only be three Hail Marys before I go to bed because of the day. That's fine, I think, you know, as long as we're putting in an effort. But I think there's something mysteriously powerful about having a rhythm of prayer where we meditate on the life of Christ, where we draw close to the Blessed Virgin Mary, where we learn from her by meditating with her on

the Rosary, and also where we're simply obedient to the call from heaven. And I think a lot of people would just be able to say that times in their life when the rosary is a priority and they pray the rosary, there's a special peace and joy that they might not have when they're not praying the rosary. And I think, you know, families, you know, that pray the rosary. I think part of the reason, like in my family, I have three brothers, we all love the Lord, you know, and so the four of us, the four siblings, and I think part of the reason for that is because we prayed the rosary as a family. So I think there is a special, you know, grace to families that pray the rosary. And like I said, for

me, I just, when I read these, you know, Marian apparitions, our lady wants to spray the rosary. And like I said, for me, I just, when I read these, you know, Marian apparitions, our lady wants to spray the rosary, fine, done, I'll do it. You look at Saint John Paul II, you look at Saint Padre Pio, you look at Saint Mother Teresa, like for them, pray the rosary, you know, so for me, and in my own life, I really do believe that, you know, part of, you know, the part of the grace I've received in my life is because I've held the hand of the Blessed Virgin Mary when I pray the rosary. They say when you hold the rosary, you're holding our Blessed Mother's hand. So I just feel that's brought grace into my life. And I think as humans, we need practical things to do. What must I do? Well, pray the rosary. Yeah. And it's this beautiful blend of vocal

and mental prayer in a secret of the rosary. St. Louis, Louis de Montfort even suggests, well, for those who can't get through the entire rosary in one sitting to be intentional about maybe one decade throughout the day until you complete it. Um, and, and that's just been really beautiful for me. So I got in the car this morning and what's the temptation? Like I live quite a ways from the studio actually. So it's close to the airport for my wonderful guests. But what are you gonna do?

Well, the temptation is put on a podcast, which might not be a bad thing, but I just thought this morning, you know what? I'm just gonna like pray a couple of decades just very intentionally. And what are you doing when you're praying a couple of decades? I mean, you're thinking about sacred scripture. And today I was thinking of the words that Gabriel spoke to Mary at the Annunciation. You know, I know you know this, but many people don't realize he didn't say Hail Mary full of grace. He said, Hail, full of grace, Ke karitamene, you who have been graced. It's this new name. So it was Peter had a new name and, and so on and so forth, Abraham, etc. Like, here is this woman full of grace and just the just what she must have been like to be around this joyful,

beautiful, you know, there's been times in my own marriage I'll sometimes look at my wife and think, who are you? Like, you're very good, you know, and you're a mystery to me. And I just think what Joseph must have thought looking at her and what her relatives must have thought, like, who are you? So anyway, abiding with Mary, meditating on the Scriptures, and I've said this a lot on my show, but I won't tire of saying it to families. Don't be afraid to pray the Holy Rosary imperfectly, but calmly. I think it was Escriva who said that your family rosary should be like a warm hearth or hearth that's inviting. And the holy rosary early in my married life with children was dad was irritated. Dad's frustrated because

people aren't paying attention and they're getting up for their fifth glass of water. I don't do any of that anymore. My rosary is at night, we light the candles and it's nothing to brag about, Father. Like last night, someone had homework. Okay, you don't want to come and pray with us? Okay, go do your homework. If someone's playing up, do you want to go to bed? You don't, you want to stay here?

Okay, why don't we just try to be a little quieter. And it's just, you know, so here's an example. This is kind of beautiful. So last night we're praying the rosary. Excuse me, I have a cold. Well, I'm getting over a cold, I should say. My son, Peter, was under the blanket the entire time. And my daughters were getting a little frustrated with him, not me, because as I said, I don't really care anymore. I've just sort of, the

blessed mothers pleased surely were here. And he's under the blankets and it's his time to lead the decade and he's leading it from under his blanket, right? And so you might say, oh, gee, that's quite disrespectful. You know, this boy should be on his knees or should at least be in a sitting prayerful posture but he's laying on the couch with a blanket over his head. He's not taking it seriously. The rosary ends. And he says, Dad, it was so nice being under the blanket because it was so dark in there

that I could see things in my mind and I could see those Bible things and those events in scripture laying under it. Beautiful, yeah. That beautiful thing wouldn't have happened if dad was all irritable and immature and yelling at his kids because he thinks it reflects poorly on him

if they don't look holy or something. Yeah. So anyway, my whole point is just, just chill out. If something's worth doing, as Chesterton said, it's worth doing badly. And so just do it, but do it with gentleness and calmness. Because what I've found is even on a strictly human level, there's something nice about gathering the troops at the end of the day, lighting some candles and just praying rhythmically, calling on the intercession of the Mother of God and meditating on the Scriptures. So I'd invite people, try again, try again and be at peace.

Our Blessed Mother loves you, all is well. You don't have to be upset or agitated or frantic or disappointed that you or the children aren't entering in as much as you might think they should. Yeah. And declaring your home for the Lord and the Blessed Mother, your home is a place of prayer, you know, it's a place where God is the priority. So that's a beautiful thing. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. One other thing I don't know if I can mention is I do have a school of reading. So

my conversion happened with spiritual reading. I didn't believe in God and I talked to my dad about it and he said, you know, read about some of the saints. I was asking, can you experience God? And he gave me a little book of St. Joseph Cupertino. And when I read that book, I just, I was so deeply moved and touched. And I really believe, filled with you know the grace of God, the Spirit of God, my eyes were open. I remember as I read it thinking to myself, I want to read books like this for the rest of my life. Like I don't ever want there to be a time in my life where I'm not learning about the things of God because this is doing something to me at a mind level, at a heart level, at a soul

level and it changed my life. And I've never stopped doing spiritual reading since of some sort. Like, for me, it's one of the primary ways I keep the fire burning. Like, to me, when you read a good Catholic book, it's like putting another log on the fire. And we're very impressionable as human beings, especially by what we open our minds to. And like I said, for me, good spiritual reading, it just, it does something. Like sometimes I'll read a book and I'll read something that doesn't really catch me that much. I might not even underline it because I underline the things that really catch me. And then two days later, it's like

that phrase, it comes back to me and it it does its work and I go back and well I didn't even underline that you know and so um so for for years I've been encouraging people I sometimes I'll buy like a stack of books I'll you know read a good book I'll buy a stack and kind of pass them out or you know encourage people to read it but I on my YouTube channel I would share with people what I was reading and I kept getting so many emails saying, what book was that? I can't find that book. And so I decided that, you know what, I think I'm going to start a school of reading. And when I mention books, I'll try to, sometimes I do a series on a book, I'll try to actually

choose a book that's in print so that people aren't emailing me saying, I can't find this book you're teaching from. And so long story short, I now have kind of a school of reading where students can sign up and I send them the books we're studying and I do a weekly teaching on the book that we're going through at the time.

And I love it. Again, for me, it comes so naturally because I love spiritual reading and I love teaching about the things I'm reading. As a matter of fact, this morning I did this week's teaching in the hotel room. I gave you a shout out. I said, I'm going to go be with my friend this afternoon or later this morning. Where do you do these videos? At my cabin in the woods. But no, I mean, where are they on YouTube or are they? Yeah. So they're exclusive videos to the students in the school of reading. Got you. Got you. Okay. How do people access that? Patreon. Okay. So

schoolofreading.com takes them to my Patreon. And it's just when I was looking to establish this thing, like I do have like you viewers from all around the world. And to me, it's not complicated to put a book in an envelope and send it to someone in Ireland and Australia. Like that's a very simple thing to do, but it is complicated. Like how the heck do you process?

Like, you know, and I kind of did a little research and I thought hmm Patreon can subscribe people all over the world I don't have to do anything they take care of everything they give me even like you know like all the kind of the detail stuff so I just found that's the simplest way for anyone in any part of the world to sign up for the School of Reading and they can sign up they can be a casual student that gives them the book of the year but they get all the teachings and a part-time student gets three books a year sent in the mail and the full-time student gets six books a year sent in the mail and so I'm always looking for

little gems you know and when I find them we have them in the mail. And so I'm always looking for little gems, you know, and when I find them, we have them in the School of Reading, we send them out. And again, it's something I love. The students, they seem to really enjoy it too. And it's also with someone inspired by Matthew Kelly, I know you know Matthew Kelly, but he, years ago I heard him say, the simplest and most effective formation program for our adults, for Catholic adults, is just getting them to read good books. And because I'm a big reader, I thought to myself, like, I totally agree with him.

Like, and especially for me, I guess the way I'm wired, like, what I read sets my heart on fire. It's a way to contemplate. It's like the to contemplate. It's like the Lord visits me. When I'm reading, like to me when you're doing spiritual reading, you're saying, Lord, I want you. I'm seeking you.

And so, yeah, it's one of the loves in my life is to be able to put good books in people's hands so that they can, you know can meditate on the wonders of God. And again, my challenge is spend your whole life reading good Catholic books. And I tell people it doesn't have to be a lot, like even if it's a page a day, you know, like just a little bit of, you know, like input of good things just, to me, prevents forgetfulness. Like, that's the Desert Fathers too, eh? One of the biggest dangers in the spiritual life is forgetting what's most important, you know, where you're trying to, your destination and all of that.

So I thought I'd mention that. That's cool. And is there a URL to that? Or do they find Patreon through your YouTube? They can go to schoolofreading.com or on my YouTube channel, it's kind of posted somewhere in the scripture or whatever. It's funny because most people, if you said to them, most Christians, if a person were to read the lives of the saints and the writings of the saints, would that have a positive

impact on their life? I think most people would say, yeah, definitely. I could see how that would influence somebody. And yet so many of us subject ourselves to the quote unquote, evangelization of the world. We binge these different shows that have all sorts of abominable things in them, like sex scenes and that.

And we somehow think that we come out unscathed, like almost like we could wear a suit of white and skip through a tarfield and come out okay. No. So I think both things, right? It's withdrawing from the wisdom of the world, which leads to death. And then also withdrawing from those distractions, which pollute the mind and make us feel as if we're incapable of investing time in good books. It's like that old, you fill up a glass vase with sand, there's no rooms for pebble or for bigger rocks, but you put the big rocks in first, pebbles after, then you can fill

it up with sand. Well, so much of our life is filled with the sand and noise of the internet that we can't even imagine what it might mean. So I'm so glad you're doing that. Yeah. It's something I really enjoy. All right. So we have people from the locals community with questions. Shout out to your locals people. Hi, y'all. Yeah. Haven't heard these questions, read these questions ahead of time, but let's take a crack at them. You can think of this as the lightning round

because we have right now 13 comments. We'll see how many we can get through. So you want me to be somewhat concise with each one. Yeah. Okay. Michael Cock asks, hi father, where do you think is the line between speaking with non-Catholics publicly when it comes to receiving person and fraternal correction.

For example, Matt asks, I don't, okay, Matt asks actual porn star for a review. I don't know what that means. Should he said what he thinks during that interview or be as gentle as possible when she admits she does nothing wrong? Should we even do interview like that? Yeah, that's a good question. So I think when we're dealing with people who don't see things as we do, we have an obligation to speak truth to them to give them clarity about how we see things, but always in a tactful way and in a way that is drawing them, like meeting them where they're at and trying to draw them towards the truth.

So for some people, it probably might not work to hit them over the head with the Bible. It might be more posing some questions that will get them to ponder and hopefully soften their hearts to see the truth. In some of those situations, it really boils down to the Holy Spirit leading you and hopefully giving you wisdom with what to say and what not to say. Those situations can be very difficult, but we have to be careful as Christians not to scare people away with too much intensity and maybe even some anger or some, you know, so that's a good question. Ryan Hogg says, how can we better have Christ reign as King in our hearts? Oh, beautiful question.

I mean, love him, you know, love him, talk to him a lot, be faithful to him, you know, read his word. lot, be faithful to Him, read His Word. And one of the most powerful things we can do is tell the Lord we love Him. And to me, like an atheist or someone who doesn't know God or hasn't experienced God, like if they're wondering, oh, what do I do to experience God? Just tell them you love Him. Say, God, if you're really, I want to love you. And God's response to our desire for love is pretty immediate and strong and wonderful. Like the most powerful thing you can say to God is, God, I love you. I want to love you more. And so, yeah. Alissa says, tips for getting closer to Jesus and Mary in a time of intense personal turmoil.

Sometimes praying feels like the last thing I should or want to do. Yeah, so in very difficult times, our prayer might change. I mean, sometimes the only way to pray is to just be in the Lord's presence with our grieving hearts and just laying ourselves bare before Him, and just laying ourselves bare before Him, you know, and sometimes too, meditating on the passion of Christ, like just realizing that the Lord is suffering with us, you know, He's in us, you know, He makes His home in us, and so what we're experiencing, the Lord Jesus is sharing with us, and sometimes meditating on His own suffering and His love for us that he shares in our suffering can get us through those times. Yeah, pressing into him, eh?

I was speaking to a therapist here recently and I think he was quoting Freud, no, Freud or who's the other psychologist? Austrian psychologist, was it? Anyway, he said to me, gosh, what was his name? Yeah, Jung? Jung, it was Jung, you're right. He said when somebody would come to him and say, hey, I just got a promotion, Jung would say, don't worry, we're going to get through this together. But if he would

come and say, my life is falling apart, he'd say, well, let's break out the bubbly. And in a way, because that's where the Lord wants to meet us, eh? Interesting. And I think sometimes we can have these sort of defenses to make life manageable and to make it work. But He wants our heart, as it really is, easier said than done when you're going through a time of turmoil. So I hope this person has support. What's your opinion on Felucia's supplicants?

Well, I think I took a stance that, you know, shocked a lot of people who were used to hearing me kind of call out the compromises that some leaders in the church were kind of leaning towards. And I just, you know, when I read it, I read it as a priest who was basically deciding, am I going to continue to do ministry? Because if the Vatican was about to ask us to do something that was wrong, i.e. bless sinful situations, I'm like, I'm not doing that. I guess I'll go live in the wilderness as a hermit and be happy doing that. And so I read it extremely carefully, line by line, word by word,

and when I read through it, I thought to myself, you know what, this is fine, you know, it kind of finds a very fine line. The other thing is, when I was reading it, I knew that Cardinal Manuel Fernandez was finally and God bless him for doing that, he was finally going to navigate the ship through the rough waters of dealing with Germany, you know, Belgium, other countries that were already crossing the line with the whole blessing things. And obviously, the Vatican had to do something, it was overdue, you know, and they were kind of delaying that. And before I read, I thought, okay, Colonel Fernandez, he wrote something. This is it. This is his attempt to prevent a schism. We all, people are saying there's a de facto schism in the church, and we're it's just a matter of like what's going to happen.

And so I knew that Fernandez was trying to navigate through the impossible waters. Like even myself, I think I have an answer to all the world's problems, you know, all these bright opinions. But I thought to myself, like, if I was in charge of getting the church through this time, If I was in charge of getting the church through this time, I don't know what I'd do. This is such a delicate, such a tough water to navigate through. When I read through it, I thought, shoot, he did it. He came up with, you know, an approach. And for those at home... It's going to work. Spe spell out what you think he said that threaded the needle.

Okay, so he over and over again said, we cannot legitimize sinful partnership situations. He said, if a couple come looking to have their sinful situation legitimized, you can't do that. And then as pastors, he went through, like, you can't have a couple dressed up as if it's a wedding, going through all of these things. It was like a checklist. We're like, thank God, thank God, like perfect, perfect, perfect. And so, He made it that we can give pastoral care and accompaniment to couples who are in sinful situations, but seeking to grow closer to conformity to God's will. We can give them pastoral care, pray with them, under certain circumstances, bless them, you know?

That's again, extremely delicate in a way that I think makes it that a faithful priest can say, yeah, I can, and also he left it to the discretion with certain conditions. Again, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do this, they can't be like a ceremony, mimicking a marriage, but it's up to the priest's discretion to decide how to pray with them. And so, to me, in a sense, no one was happy. Certainly Africa wasn't happy, and thank God for the voice of Africa. I mean, that pretty much ended any thought of,

oh, this is just the beginning of something. I don't think it made, you know, a lot of the German leaders happy. I don't think it made anyone happy, but it got us through, I don't think, you know, the, I don't think the LGBTQ community was ultimately happy. They said, oh yeah, this is a good first step. So it didn't make anyone happy, but it got us through something that I believe didn't compromise the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. I mean, I got damn pretty

darn close to doing that, but also prevent a schism. You know, it's been over a year since it came out and... So, based on this document, if two fellows approached you after Holy Mass and it was evident, or they communicated to you that they were living in a same-sex relationship, and they said, we'd like you to bless our relationship, how would you handle it based on that document? No, I'm not going to bless your relationship. The document says you can't do that. But how would that conversation go? They come to you and they say, hey, we understand. And they have goodwill. They're not trying to track you, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We understand that the church has said something about you being able to bless us. Yeah. How do you handle that situation based on that document? Well, I mean, if they were saying, you know, bless us, Well, I mean, if they were saying, you know, bless us, I mean, I might simply say, hey, why don't you make an appointment and we'll have a little chat in my office. If you're asking me right here and now to kind of give y'all a blessing, you know, I'm not going to do that, because the document says...

Because it would appear like you were blessing a sinful relationship. Yeah. I mean, if there were two business... If there were also two business partners who would say, our business is just crumbling right now and we're just... Can you pray for us? God bless you as you lead your business and help you to get through this in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, you know? Again, some passer-byers might be a little kind of, what's that all about, you know? But that would be fine. Yeah, situations like that. I know the analogy I heard was, you know, if a fellow leaves his bride and he shacks up with a woman and he shows up and he's expressed this to you. So you now know he's in a

sinful relationship, says, would you mind blessing us? Is that kind of a good analogy? Like the same way that you would kind of have to counsel them in their sin, but also want to help them come closer to the Lord? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're still as priests in every situation, whether it's couples or whatever, have to discern, what am I blessing here? So, whatever. If a young lady says, well, I'm running away from home or I'm doing something silly, it's like, I'm not giving you a blessing for that. Stay with your parents or whatever.

stay with your parents or whatever. So, yeah, I think what happens though is in the Western world, there's a lot of people who don't follow church news and politics or any of that, and they're just so immersed in our culture that they don't know exactly where they stand or what they're up to, but they listen to a beautiful Matt Fradd interview and read a nice Matthew Kelly book and a couple, and they're realizing, I think I want to be more Catholic. And they come looking for help and direction. I think what Pope Francis is asking for is, be good to these people, be kind to these people, don't be immediately too severe with them. I think we've heard enough from Pope Francis

to know that he isn't too thrilled about some of the new ideologies. And I think that's good. One of the positive things for priests is that, here's an example. So say they gave the example of a pilgrimage. So we have a St. Mary's pilgrimage day. We're walking from St. Mary's to St. Pat's.

And as you're leaving the church, I'm blessing every pilgrim God blessed you in a family blessing and couples blessing. And then there's two people who I know are in a sinful partnership situation. And they're the next, and they come together holding hands and I'm giving everyone a blessing. Well, before Feduccia Suplicans say I would have kind of given them a blessing. I don't know if I would have slept well that night. I probably would have gone to confession thinking I might have done something

wrong. Now, they're not looking for a blessing for their situation. All they're looking for is you're walking today like everyone else and I'm blessing them for their pilgrimage. God bless you and I'm, I can sleep well at night and I've done nothing wrong. And I think for, you know, a lot of priests in the Western world where there's a lot of this, it kind of takes the, the kind of, I don't know what, you know, pressure off to see, you know, and I think that's Pope Francis's heart, like just try to help these people, try to minister to them, be good to them. If in some situations, I mean, certainly pray with them, as a carer's man, we'll pray with anybody, you know,

so praying with people is nothing new, but you know, like if you minister to them in some situations, blessing them, again, it's a very delicate thing, but I think there are some situations, like the example I gave in one video was, okay, so there's a very delicate thing, but I think there are some situations. Like the example I gave in one video was, okay, so there's a hurricane in your neighborhood and you're where your parish is. You're walking around the parish neighborhood the next morning. Everyone's cleaning up. They're

devastated. Houses are ruined. You're praying with the different families and then you see across the road, oh, there is a couple in a sinful partnership situation. Everyone knows. Do you go talk to them? Oh, you better as a priest. You know, yes, go to them. So you go to them and they say, oh, Father, we've laughed at everything. Could you pray with us? Well, yeah, you pray with them and God bless you as you get through this. The Father, Son, the Holy Spirit. There's nothing wrong with that. You're not blessing their sinful situation. You're blessing them as two people who are together

trying to struggle through a crisis. I think since this document, I'd be okay with doing this. And no one can say, you just bless the sin. No, I didn't because I read the Fiducia Suplicans. It says I can't, so that's not what I did. And just like a guy who's stumbling down the street, he got out of one bar and he's gonna go probably to another bar and it sees me,

say, hey, Father, give me a blessing. I'll give him a blessing. He's doing something ridiculous, but I'm not blessing him. Anyways, I don't know if that makes sense. I know I took a line that a lot of people didn't appreciate. No I like the way you just laid that out. That makes sense to me.

Yeah, thank you. Philip Z says, do you find celibacy difficult? Has your view changed after many years as a priest? Any advice for younger men about celibacy or loneliness? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a challenge. Difficult, you know, could be the word for it, especially at times, you know, I mean, life has seasons, you know. Is celibacy and the priesthood more difficult than, you know, living appropriately in married life?

Apparently, married life too has challenges, you know, living properly, you know, in the sacrament of marriage. I mean, I would say that if you feel the Lord might be calling you to a consecrated life, a life of consecrated celibacy, you would need an affirmation of that before, you know, you make whatever final vows or become a priest, you know, like a degree of freedom to know that, yeah, the Lord is offering me this grace. It doesn't mean that you're not going to experience your humanity throughout your whole life like every other human being. It does mean that it will keep you, you know, on your knees and begging God for grace and mercy.

Sometimes our struggles with our weakness can be little alarms. It's like, hey, you haven't been praying that's challenging, and yeah, I would say over the years as a priest, it gets easier, you know. Again, easy is probably not the right word to use, you know, but I think the Lord honours, you know, a response to a call to the celibate life, but it requires staying close to the Lord and being filled with His love so that we're not turning to other things. But pray for priests, because priests do struggle, you know? And so, yeah, it's, especially in our world today, I mean, we're, we're, you know, we're men, you know, and in a world where there's so much temptation, it's a challenge, you know, for everyone to kind of avoid the many temptations out there. And so, yeah, I mean, just in general, the priesthood or the consecrated life, it's not for the faint of heart. It's a call to something difficult and challenging.

It's definitely possible, but there has to be a determination that I will lay my life down and fight the good fight for the Lord, you know, every day of my life till the day I die. And again, I would say I don't know if married life is any easier. I love how you couch that, right? Because I think that's kind of the underlying assumption, not always and not necessarily in this question, but sometimes the assumption can be, is it hard for you because you don't have an outlet? And I think that is just a wrong question. I mean, if an outlet was what brought peace and calm and sexual stability to our life,

then the porn addict should be that. But it actually turns out that the one who's hooked on porn is more agitated and feels he needs more and more, so too with the adulterous man or woman. Also with loneliness, it's like, yeah, because no married people are ever lonely, you know, obviously that's sarcasm. And so it's not to say that there aren't particular crosses, I know, that the celibate has to carry. But maybe there's a temptation that the devil wants to whisper to the celibate that if you were just married, then everything would be fine and you wouldn't be dealing with loneliness or frustration or sexual temptation.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all right. Kieran asks, it feels like Canada and Canadians have been having a moment lately. been having a moment lately. Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Peugeot being two examples of great voices recently. What are Father Mark's thoughts on Canada's role in the world with upcoming elections? Well, and with what happened with President Trump, etc. Yeah, I mean, I love Canada, I love being Canadian. I don't know if... I mean, for me, my Canadian identity is more just kind of a fun thing. I mean, my kingdom is not on this world. My thoughts and my heart is set on another kingdom, an eternal kingdom. I mean, I'm so glad that the current leadership in the US is doing away with all of this radical woke nonsense.

Oh, it's like a healing balm. Like I heard one commentator, Sky News lady saying, oh, it's like a while ago. She says, it's like Christmas every day, like doing away with all, you know, just one, what the executive order after another, doing away with the woke nonsense. Like, do you feel the same way? Yes, of course. Oh, it's such a healing bumble. I think all the cool kids do. We just think, oh, we like, and then what happens is when you say, oh, thank goodness.

You're then accused by these people who say, well, you're treating him like the Messiah. It's like, no, no, very clear who the Messiah is. We also know that this insanity has gotten out of hand. I was just in Australia And at the local school, they have a kitty letter box because someone identifies as a cat you see her. Yeah That's insane. That's bonkers the charts. Yeah bonkers. Yeah, we need to bring the word bonkers back. That's good Yeah final question from James

How long you've been skateboarding and do you still like to skateboard? Yeah, so I took up skateboarding when I moved to Texas. Once I picked it up, I was totally hooked and I was skateboarding almost every single day. And it was so good for me when I moved to Ottawa. I skateboarded until the pandemic hit during the pandemic, my indoor skate park, because it's winter, you know, and you can't skateboard outside. So the indoor skate park closed, so I thought, no problem, I'll just start skateboarding in the spring when the outdoor parks open. But when the spring came,

they kept the outdoor parks closed. And by that time, I was walking every day and kind of fell in love with walking and taking a prayer walk every day. And plus I'm getting older and recuperating from, you know, busting myself up is getting harder. So long story short, I haven't skateboarded since the pandemic. Yeah. I accept that. You know, I knew when I was skating, I knew the day would come where I'd have to hang up the skateboard. You know, I didn't see myself skateboarding into my seventies or even 60s. I thought I'd have a few more years, but I loved skateboarding, but I felt I was never attached to it. I'd be willing to let

it go when the time came and I feel that that time has come. And I miss it. I think about skateboarding sometimes and how fun it was to have that as a way of exercising and recreating. sometimes and how fun it was to have that as a way of exercising and recreating. But that's what happened. Father Mark, thank you so much for getting on a plane and flying to another country and coming on my show. I know what a pain travel is these days. So me and my viewers are very grateful to have you. Well, thank you for having me.

And like I said, just so many people saying, oh, Matt Fratt is so awesome. And I listen to you as much as I can, and you're 100% man, like what you're doing is just right on. You're a very prominent voice that so many Catholics turn to, listen to, to kind of get some perspective, help navigate through these crazy times. So yeah, honor to be with you.

And I'm cheering you along, keep up the good work and I'm always at your service too, if there's anything I can do for you, let me know. Thanks. You're welcome.