Pints With Aquinas - Don't Waste Your Money on College (Do This Instead) w/ Jacob Imam and Mike Sullivan

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

Support us on Locals, get a TON in return: https://mattfradd.locals.com/support Hallow: https://hallow.com/mattfradd Learn more about The College of St. Joseph The Worker: https://www.collegeofstjoseph.com Apply to The College of St. Joseph The Worker here: https://www.collegeofstjoseph.com/apply Jason Coy Quality Handmade Knives: https://www.jasoncoyknives.com/

Did you know that I'm now hosting a live daily podcast called Morning Coffee? Every morning at 8.30am you can join me and dozens of other early birds for a caffeinated conversation about theology, philosophy and how to grow in your relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. The podcasts are completely free to watch. All you have to do is sign up on locals by clicking the link in the description below. Hope to see you there. Come on, baby.

We are live with Mike Sullivan and Jacob Imam. Lovely to have you. This is awesome. It's a great moment. To Steubenville Locals. Someone just walked in there. Hey, baby. Thank you.

All right. We're going to do a little shout out before we begin. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was the coolest thing. You got that camera on me? Thanks, darling. You can stick around and watch the advert if you want.

All right, so I often have a lot of people who write to me over Instagram or Twitter or email, whatever, asking me to promote their stuff. And most of the time I just, I have too many things I'm promoting. But when I saw what this guy made, I was like, yeah, send me one of them. It's an amazing knife that he handmade,

and you're a craftsman, Mike, so I'll have you check it out and see what you think about this. Oh my gosh, whoa. Can you see that okay? That is beautiful. Is that the Sacred Heart? That's the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart.

Oh, that was, whoa. Have a look at that. This guy's not paying me to do this, by the way. And you guys didn't know about this before the show, but I just wanted to give a huge shout out. Although the problem is I now forget. I haven't put it in the, I don't even know. What's he called? What's his thing called?

I have him on Instagram. I'll look him up. Could you do me a favor, love, and text that to Neil, and he'll put it in the description. I need everybody to work. Cause I don't know how to. This is incredible. Isn't that amazing? Should we text? Sorry. I don't know. I don't want to dent it. My kids aren I need everybody to work. This is incredible. Isn't that amazing?

Should we dent it? Sorry. I don't know. I don't want to dent it. My kids aren't even allowed to use this beautiful knife. So anyway, if you guys want a beautiful knife, if you're sick of the crap you keep getting from the store that keeps blunting and breaking, check this guy out once we know his name and ah, I'm really sorry this was totally spontaneous. Okay, just Google that. J.C. J.C. Knife. Yeah, that's right. But check him out.

Again, there'll be a link in the description below. I feel really bad. Okay, we'll pause in a moment and we'll give him a proper shout out once my wife looks him up. Jason Coy. Jason C-O-Y? Yep.

Jason Coy. Jason Coy Knives. Jason Coy Knives. Could you look that up, put it in the description. And I believe he's saying he's gonna give a 10% discount to people who use the promo code FRAD. There is a promo code, but I don't know that it's FRAD. Crap. Precuriously. Well, anyway.

We don't want anybody to shed blood. We'll put all that below. Go check him out. He's a Catholic, he's a convert. He makes great products. Go support Catholics. As Jeremy Boring from the Daily Wire says, stop supporting people who hate you. Stop buying things from people who hate you. Buy it from me instead. Anyway, so guys who are watching today, we have a massive announcement that's gonna be a huge blessing to the country and to you. But we're not gonna make it just yet. We're gonna make it later on. that's gonna be a huge blessing to the country and to you, but we're not gonna make it just yet,

we're gonna make it later on. But to begin, I wanna bring up the fact that many people today are questioning whether or not they should go to university, whether it's worth the time, whether it's worth the debt. Certainly, I think there are great universities, Franciscan is one of them, and if people have a good reason to go, they should go.

We're not poo-pooing universities and colleges in general, but just your initial thoughts on this, the amount of debt people are racking up what benefit universities are at all Yeah, I think it's a big big problem in our modern society because we don't really know what universities are for On the one side, you know You have this promise that you're gonna get a better job that this is your gateway into the middle class. And on the other, you have people saying, well, university is actually for nurturing your soul, figuring out how to actually be a good citizen, a good person, know the truths that make life most human. And that's true, but we don't really know how those two things are married together. And what ends up happening is that more and more increasingly as time goes on, is that people are graduating

with some technical skills that are not independent skills. They are really for the integration into major systems in our society on the one hand. I think there's some problems there we can explore. On the other side, people are thinking, well, I'll be able to think better. I'll be, and then I'll kind of deal with what job I'll, I'll do particularly later on. But meanwhile, they're racking up on average about $29,000 of debt just for their undergraduate alone. Or if you're going to a private school, you're looking closer to 35,000. And, and again, you know, that is not just numbers, but it is really something that inhibits

freedom. You know, the capacity to act as you creatively desire. John Paul II, you know, speaks that there's something important about knowing that you're working for yourself, for yourself as part of the common good, is a real integral, you know, faceted part of the common good. So it's not something just self centric, individualistic, autonomous. But that has to that has to be, you know, still a creative endeavor. You can't just be subservient to another. And I and I fear that the debt is actually more of a metaphysical problem rather than just a financial one. Mike.

I agree with that. I think the goal of education would be to give people freedom. So it's freedom to think, freedom to be a man, and to be fully alive and fully aware of what's come before you and what you can do and what kind of conversations have come before you and what you can do and what, um, what kind of conversations have happened and engaging in that.

And, uh, it seems that the debt combined with sort of the, you shall not pass go without this certificate mentality has kind of created a situation where people are just preparing to work in corporations where there is no freedom and, and they're living lives where they're sort of saddled with that and saddled with this workaday world where they're kind of stuck in a box and it's very frustrating for many people.

I grew up in Australia and when I graduated, I would say maybe 50% or less went to university. So it's not as culturally, what do you say? That's about the numbers here, I think. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Okay. But it is just prevalent amongst- Maybe it was much less,

because in my high school, it was like, it was almost weird if you were going to university. So maybe it was less than 50%. And you weren't really looked down, maybe that's changed in Australia now. I'm not sure, I haven't been there in about 15, 16 years, but you weren't really looked down upon. If you're like, I'm just gonna go get a trade.

It was like, cool. I remember when I moved to America, I just felt really inferior. I now know that I won't really look down upon. If you're like, I'm just gonna go get a trade. It was like, cool. I remember when I moved to America, I just felt really inferior. I now know that I shouldn't have felt that way. I should have felt superior. But I felt inferior because I'm like, I've never been to university. Maybe I'm stupid, you know, and that sort of thing.

And I ended up going to university and became stupid. No, I ended up going to university. I'm glad that I did and learned a lot and it was really beneficial to the work that I'm doing now. But yeah, just this myth that everyone needs to go to university like I wonder where it even came from. I think there well, I think there's quite a number of places where it came from, but I don't think that we

Should push off this notion that it has to do with becoming a pagan society again I think most of us are pretty, you know, ready to say, all right, we're in a post-Christian society again. And that means that if that's true, we should kind of look to the pagan civilizations that became before Christianity to see what they did and like who we are becoming again. And one of the things that we found that was totally prevalent throughout those societies is that people that worked with their hands were considered lesser, that that was the work of slaves. Aristotle says that you cannot achieve the perfect life whilst being a craftsman, that it's inimical to the life of virtue. That should be a logo above the door, King Arthur.

Yeah, that's also, you can't even have a good life. Yeah, you can't have the good life. You can't lead that good life. Cicero said the same thing. There's all these myths too about the gods in ancient Egypt, as Mark was teaching us the other day, Mark Barnes, that the gods kind of tricked humans to doing their labor. So what is that? I mean, that's just, you know, the rich aristocrats of society, you're finding some way to trick people to doing manual labor. Just enslaving the lower class, basically. Exactly.

And I think these are explicit terms, things like, these are still language that Christianity has taught all of us to say, that's extreme. Those are serious claims. Whereas they weren't really serious claims at the time at all. This was actually just standard. People assumed them in these ancient civilizations. And I think as we're putting off Christ truly assumed as being sender in our culture, we're inevitably going to start making these same mistakes.

And John Paul II, I mean, this is a major, major, majorly important point for him throughout his pontificate, but in particular in Leborum exursus is when he's saying that Christianity stands against all that, and it's particularly revealed that it stands against all that because Christ, the one who, while being God, came down during his incarnation and spent most of the years of his life at the carpenter's bench. You know, and it's not just the fact that he most of the years of his life at the carpenter's bench. You know, and it's not just the fact that he came in the form of a slave. He did come in the form of a slave. But if we are, as Christians, going to take seriously the claim that Christ reveals true humanity to us, to ourselves, that he's an archetype of true humanity, we can't dismiss the fact that he was a carpenter

too readily. That's the integrated life. And you have to have that as, the work that we do is a good thing. And the more mundane tasks, oh yeah, go for it. To Black Rifle Coffee, may they sponsor us. May they sponsor the show. Sorry.

Where was I? I'm sorry. The word became flesh and picked up a hammer. Exactly. Isn't that a great line? Yeah, who came up with that? I haven't heard that. I think.

The word became flesh and picked up a hammer. I said it as a joke one day and then Mike liked it, so I kept saying it. Yeah, I love it. It's awesome, it's So I kept saying it. Yeah I don't know about you though, but I actually have I don't even have to pretend or Manufacture respect for people who do stuff with their hands. I actually respect him way more. I mean Everyone looks down on plumbers until you get a clog sink. Exactly, you know It's and, and then you realize you're useless. And what have you, that's a bit harsh, but like, you know,

you've had, you don't know how to do this thing. And you got to call on people who do know how to do these things and living in a place like Steubenville, Ohio, where many of the houses need work on them. I'm so aware of my own impotence when it comes to the simplest of things. And so I have tremendous respect for these individuals like yourself and like you, I mean,

you helped me put together that sauna, you know, that I just I don't have and wish that I did. But it's maybe it's because we've been poo pooing this sort of thing. You have less and less people who know what to do with something breaks. Yep. There's a cultural mentality that looks down upon the worker. And I think that's a serious flaw. I mean, John Paul II in Laborum Exerchens talks about the dignity of the worker and basically says that all types of work that are productive and build up society, build up technology, the people around us, all of these things, all types of work are dignified. But there's a special thing about the worker, the laborer that he's more connected with the carpenter

The original carpenter, you know the OC That's awesome. All right, so let's tell tell people the the big fantastic news that you guys have just made public What's going on? Well here in Steubenville? The true capital of the world, the center of the universe, the pull of the earth, is a new college. The College of St. Joseph the Worker. This is a college that simultaneously trains people in the Catholic intellectual tradition so that they can earn a BA degree in Catholic studies. Well, simultaneously training them in the skilled trades

so that they can ultimately earn their journeyman status in a craft. So that, whilst they're training in that, as they're getting paid, they can graduate financially net positive instead of up to their eyeballs in debt. Everything you just said is so fantastic. I wanna go back over those points

and just slow down on each. Awesome. This is great. I'm glad you summed over those points and just slow down on each. Awesome. This is great. I'm glad you summed it up, but let's dig into that. Yeah. So first of all, people can find us at collegeofsaintjoseph.com. There's a link in the description below already. There's even a link where you can apply to this college and you're probably going to want to do that by the end of the show or else we didn't do our job. So unpacking that, let's see, we've got this, the model basically helps people to not carry the enormous load of debt that they would have from a normal college. You want to talk about

the cost of tuition? Sure. So yeah, yeah, no, go for it. Well, I was just going to say the first thing that struck me is this isn't an either or, right because you're saying no you get to come learn the liberal arts learn I'd like you to get into that a bit more while learning how to be a craftsman that's awesome because I imagine there's some people out there who are like I actually I saw some snarky comments before we went live people be like yeah remain ignorant that's great as if not going to university equals, yeah. You need a PhD to believe that kind of stuff. But that's absolutely true. Talking about the three different programs

would be kind of the best way to start. We begin with a craftsman certificate or a craftsmanship certificate, which is basically a one year program where people will be immersed in the liberal arts and the Catholic intellectual life, as well as having a lot of time in the shop. And the goal there would be that after that year,

they could make the decision to continue on in the trades or continue on with the BA degree with us, or they could just go do something else, but have that year of shop experience, how to use the tools, how things work, basics of all the different trades, and then be able to go and fix their house, you know, be able to unclog the toilet or fix the sink or whatever it is. And so then the other two tracks would be the tradesman track, which would be, it's

basically a bachelor's degree along with the preparation to go on to be an apprentice and Move toward the journeyman's Status in the different trades like electrical plumbing HVAC masonry carpentry and And then the other track would be of course the BA which is a three-year I'll let you tell the accelerated BA track So whereas in the first the first thing that Mike mentioned was this certificate, it's a gap year program to help kids take some time and figure out what they actually want to do. I mean, just all the studies have revealed that those who take gap years do better. They

have a greater purpose, a better sense of what they want to do. They have a greater purpose in their studies and they just do better in school ultimately. So it's just a great thing for people to be doing. Then we have that, the Craftsmanship Track BA where people take six years. Three of them will be here in Steubenville. Three of them will be elsewhere as we place them with a master craftsman somewhere else, a Catholic somewhere else. What? Where they want to be, you know, ultimately, like if you're from Oklahoma, for instance, and you don't want to just be stuck in, in Ohio your whole life working, you want to be, you know, ultimately, like if you're from Oklahoma, for instance, and you don't want to just be stuck in, in Ohio your whole life working, you want to go back

to your, to your family in Oklahoma, we'll place you with a master craftsman there. And so you'll, you'll finish out your time with us studying from a distance, but where you ultimately want to be in the, with the community you want to invest in. And then- That also makes it kind of, in terms of the trades, that makes it sort of a national benefit, you know Or a universal benefit to everyone. It's not just gonna serve our area. It's really Students from wherever can can work with you know craftsmen in their area and we're building those networks You know and making connections with people so that when a student wants to go back back home they can yep

And and that thing is a six-year program because these guys are going to be working hard. I mean, that is some serious effort to have to put in to be an apprentice. And so that takes longer. It'll be a six-year program, but it's a full BA. Now the final track, this accelerated BA track, you'll be able to accomplish it in three years So that first year it's a lot of time in the shop. You're learning how to work with your hands You're integrating mind and soul, but you know mind and body soul all of it together But also you've kind of come to the decision at the end of that year that I actually do want to you know Go off and become a lawyer or go off for post-grad work in some ways or I want to just do something else

I don't want to become a tradesman. Not everybody post-grad work in some ways, or I want to just do something else. I don't want to become a tradesman. Not everybody's called to be a tradesman. I think everybody in some regard is called to be able to be confident with their hands, but not everybody's called to be a tradesman. And so for them, we want to accelerate that track for them to really just delve into the life of the mind, spend those years studying, reading, writing, sitting with great professors to be able to really and truly figure out what makes life most human. And then we're going to

graduate you in three years. Now for that track, what's included is tuition and room, rooms free, $15,000 a year. So you'd be able to get your entire BA degree if you did that final track for $45,000 Which is comparable to many single year tuition costs for a number of universities You have to pay for your own food and you have to cover your own utilities. Yep and taxes But other than that, it's all included. Yeah, so the We can talk about the housing model in part But we really want to raise people up into figuring out what ownership is like, instead of just sequestering them in dorm

life where it's kind of a bubbled off, you don't actually have responsibilities, you don't have to take care of anything. It kind of coaxes you back into adolescence in some ways. It's a similar pricing model for the craftsmanship track as well, $15,000 a year while you're in Steubenville. And that then goes down to $5,000 when you've gone somewhere else for your last three years. The placement and networking, those are the things in part what you're paying for there. And then for the gap year, it's another $15,000. As these people are learning to work with their hands and are building things, can they be putting that to use

to make money to pay off the course? Yeah, that's a great thing is that after the first year, well, I mean, Mike has told me many sob stories about getting new people in to the working, training them up and just being incompetent. And then you have to take many months until they're actually a productive member of the team and really don't get the focused time of training them

because you're on the job site. You have to make it affordable for- You have to produce. Yeah, you gotta produce for the people that are hiring you out. So the first year, we're really just taking them in the shop. We're trying to say say this is your concentrated effort

We're going to be raising you up training you in all these trades and then after that first year You're going to be continuing on your training on job sites So at that time you're gonna be making money and you'll be able to actually make enough money. We predict we project You'll be able to pay forward each quarter you know each additional quarter yeah what is it what is a day in the shop look like I mean you've got people working with their hands but you also have classes yeah how does what does that look like yeah so we have a mix essentially right now we have a fully functioning wood shop. It's amazing. I built a bird house with my son Peter the other day.

Thank you to you guys. And Liam was in my candle making, candle stick class. My son made himself a wooden candle stick and he was so proud of that as he ought to have been. He did a great job. So, the day in the life, of course we're going to be utilizing heavily St. Peter's Catholic Church in Steubenville as kind of our, that's our chapel, that's our parish for the school. And so we imagine, you know, morning mass would start at St. Peter's and then of course

you've got classroom time and shop time kind of divided. Where does the classroom time take place? So the classroom time, you can talk about that. Sure, the classroom is actually right next door to the church, it's on, you know that building that has the mural of St. John Newman? Yeah. So that's actually the old parish school.

Okay. Yeah, the parochial schools, all saints. And so Father Huffman is kindly letting us use that. It's beautiful, overlooks our church, so it's just beautiful, great big bay windows, it's awesome. So it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. And it's right by our church, so it's just beautiful. Great big bay windows. It's awesome. So it's going to be great. And it's right by the church. So, and we have perpetual adoration at St. Peter's. So there's always that. But so then the shop time, they walk down the street to our workshop, which is what? Four blocks, three blocks away, something like that. And then we'll have

things set up for electrical training, heating and cooling training, plumbing, masonry and carpentry. And right now the whole shop is set up for carpentry. The other things will come with, you know, in the next year we'll have all those things developed, but just little workshop areas where we can do the hands-on training for all those things.

And we're currently working on, we're getting people involved that are skilled tradesmen that are gonna be helping us teach those things. And we're currently working on, we're getting people involved that are skilled tradesmen that are going to be helping us teach those courses. And some of the guys that are involved already are just the best guys you'd ever know. And so competent and so serious about their work and so excited to teach. And have integrated the life themselves, I think. I mean, you're the prime example, Mike, for this, who's studied theology deeply and at high levels and have obviously worked in the Catholic world, you, you know, Will Hoy. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That guy's just a superstar. I so learned extremely intelligent, but worked as a, and worked as a carpenter

for his whole life. Yeah. You know, still does. I mean, and so we really are trying to find people that have cultivated these, these dual elements, these, both the active and contemplative lives that have rejected the dual elements, both the act of being contemplative lives, that have rejected the false dichotomy between the head and the hands, and have married those together

and recognize that they're mutually reinforcing and totally intertwined with one another. Both on the craft side, but also on the intellectual side. So you think of a guy like Andrew Willard Jones, who's on the board and also a teaching fellow at the university, but also worked as a carpenter for many years and an HVAC. Yeah, he was in both trades, you know, and ultimately decided that he really wanted to pursue an intellectual vocation.

And now he's just, you know, superstar academic and, you know, many people around the world consider him, you know, the leading political theologian. So it's a but he can fix anything he wanted to fix on his house. He's an all around great guy. If those of you who are watching want to go over to locals and send me a question there, you can do that or I'll go over to Patreon and put it in the community section and we'll try to get to your questions here. Ricardo says, will there be enough local work for your students? Per the new Polity announcement,

it seems like tuition will be subsidized by the students' own apprenticeships, like you said. But will there be enough local work or not? There's so much local work. So our first class will be 30 students. And there's certainly enough work for 30 students. But I mean, as, as this develops, uh, we're, we're going to build the infrastructure to put all those people,

those kids to work. And I think the, um, the town really needs it. This town has been neglected and, uh, poorly maintained for a long time. It's a steel town. When the mills closed down, uh, people stopped fixing things up. And so there's endless work in this town. But also we have a lot of surrounding areas. I mean, Pittsburgh is a 40 minute drive from Steubenville. Weirton is right across the river.

There are towns all around where we can accommodate. And presumably people could be creating things to sell online, couldn't they? Oh, certainly. And that I think is probably that a revenue stream for people that are doing that accelerated BA track. Cause after that first year, they're not going to be taking shop classes anymore.

But hey, they have access to this amazing wood shop. Why not go and do some of that? And there's a number, we really set up the shop originally so that it could be greater access to productive property for more people. We're pushing about 30 members right now. And I think- Are you a member now?

Neil's a member? So Neil is actually a minority in the member because Neil's doing awesome projects. You know, he has cedar flower beds that you're building right now. But that's, I consider that a leisure activity. Like he's beautifying, you know, his house and all these things in his girlfriend's house

and apartment. But it's not like for profit. He's not making things to sell. But the majority of people that are in the shop and have memberships are making things to sell. We have students You know that decided well, I could either work at Wendy's You know flipping burgers to pay my way through college or I could be making a whole bunch of cool stuff in the shop

And doing that and doing so very successfully. I've been very impressed. So That would be another way that those people primarily would be but I mean this Mike says I mean, there's just endless amounts of work to do here. We're also developing the Etsy shop for the workshop. Oh you are. And so the current members. How much do Etsy take? I don't know. 8%. 8%. Which is, I mean Amazon takes 50%. That's really good. Yeah, it's great. 8%. Yeah, yeah. So that for the current members of the workshop can be a great opportunity to just use that to sell their The things that they make that's what also that'll be available to the students so Let's see here Cody Linnell says since college is a I haven't read these ahead of time

Since college is a broken system But true education is about spiritual formation and learning to improve the mind and virtues. What ways can we educate ourselves? I think learning on your own is very important, but we also need to learn from someone more educated to help us comprehend the ideas. The end. Yeah, well, I think that's just a great point. And you know, there are just a ton of resources online, but I do think there's

something about incarnate education that is so important. So even if you are reading books on your own, even if you are consuming podcasts on your own that are really nurturing your mind, and you need to, I think, have all educators in some sort of a dance, you know, by going to other people, first and foremost, going to the chapel and praying about it. I mean, there really is this, you know, the dance of education that happens between the library, the chapel and the fields. You know, this is how St. Benedict originally set up his monasteries, which really are the precursor for medieval universities, where he understood that true education is the formation of the whole human person. And that Christ, revealing true humanity to us,

realizes that for us to really come into the Word Himself means that we really have to come into work as well. I mean, St. John Paul II says this, saying that it's an integral part to our humanity. If we give up on work, then we're also giving up on our humanity in some sense. So I mean, this guy's totally right. You got to learn from somebody. You got to share that. I mean, all of it is incarnate, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be institutionalized as well.

But the great thing about a tutor is that they can take the things that you're reading and talking about and studying and they can open it up and unpack it and show you things from their wisdom and their experience, what great things are hiding in that little nugget of information, you know, and bring so many other things to bear. And there's a complementarity between the different studies and all of those things that a tutor or a professor can really open up and unpack for you.

So that's, you know. Yep. So this would be an unapologetically Catholic school? Unapologetically. Unapologetically. The bishop, you know, I guess we probably should have said this, the bishop has been extremely gracious to us and very excited about the project.

And so we're really grateful to Bishop Monfortin. Shout out to him. Thanks so much. We're very grateful for you. And it is, while it's not a diocesan project, it is proudly grounded in the diocese of Steubenville. When will you start classes? 2023, fall, fall of 23.

Okay, wow. So if there's parents out there and they got kids who are about to graduate, this would be a great idea. Absolutely. I really believe that. Isn't it nice to talk about things you believe as opposed to, as opposed to you guys are my friends and said you wanted to be on my show. So I got to pretend I'm excited, but I am so freaking jazzed about this. This is just going to be terrific for people. It's going to be fantastic. I'm competent with their hands.

Like I love how you put it. Like a lot of modern education has become so specialized that you're essentially training to be a cog, which fair enough, that's okay. The no problem being a cog if we're going for the common good, as you said, but to be actually become competent, you know, and building and working on things and fixing things. I think this is particularly good. Sorry. It's just so good for the man to believe that he's competent. And this is such a concrete way of realizing that.

I think this is just more important than I can say, actually. And I, you know, outside of being, you know, an earnest and zealous, you know, you know, ambassador for this new college. I just remember when Blaze's godfather, my eldest godfather, Tim, started to really put me through the wringer for not knowing how to work with my hands. He was a carpenter. He's on our board now and just an amazing guy. But, you know, but I remember as he was teaching me and originally that my anxiety levels began to decrease significantly instead of seeing something, some mechanical, you know, great monstrosity is in pretending as if it was like natural, like as if it was

just given and that there was no way of getting around it before you were right. Yeah, exactly. You know, realizing that it is really an artifact of man and that a man made it that I can begin to comprehend it, that I can figure out how it works, that I'm not at its mercy. You know, that is just it just completely clears the air. I mean, you're able to see through this opaque technological vista and actually figure out how things should be at the service of man and not man at the service of these machines. I think that's just so important. And I really do believe, you know, this is not like a, as a, as like a scheme that people have made, but just as a natural outgrowth thing of our,

or outworking of our desire for continual growth in the economy. Is that the more that things are built up that we do not understand, the more we actually are at the mercy of other men. That's the beginning of tyranny in and of itself, where we're not able to defend ourselves because we're dependent upon it, upon other people all the time. That is really the grounding, part of the grounding for the principle of subsidiarity in our tradition as well, is actually being able to handle things at the lowest level

to be self-sufficient so that in those more personal dynamic relationships the Personal character can really come forward so that charity can actually reign within it I mean easy again just I'm just stealing everything from John Paul the second at this point But but these are just age-old Catholic truths as well. There's also the I think it's very common in our American culture now for people to want to sort of be prepared for things and be self-sufficient. There's a major movement for self-sufficiency. I think it rises out of that constant dependence on other people to do things and help you fix your car, fix your appliances, provide you with water, electricity, all of those things.

And people are just they feel you know Imprisoned by that and I think that this is it's all part of the same idea that we By learning the trades and empowering people with the catholic intellectual tradition. We're freeing them of the bonds of Our society and the prison that they're put in by our culture of our society and the prison that they're put in by our culture. I mean, just looking at this from a maybe selfish point of view or a completely pragmatic point of view, even a materialistic point of view, which I know we shouldn't be doing, but hear me out. The economy doesn't seem to be doing well. People are increasingly unable to do the things that people perhaps a hundred years ago could have done,

namely fix the basic things, myself included. This seems like great job security, doesn't it? Absolutely. Oh, you just think about it. Like you think, I mean, how much have we exported to other countries? I mean, everything that we can export, we have exported, but you can't export the skilled trades. I mean, you can't just like the house has to be built here. Yeah. The building has to be fixed here. Yeah. Yeah. Like, has to be fixed here. Yeah. Yeah, like just so everybody knows,

I know Mike really well, Mike's been helping us on our house and he's currently putting in a brand new kitchen. Yeah. You know, I don't know how to do that. Yeah. And I certainly can't, there's certainly not an app for that. Yeah.

So you will be very much needed and that's not going away. People want stuff fixed fixed people want stuff built And if they're unable to do it most of us are unable to do it that puts you in a really good place Just to complain a little bit more, you know Think about what it like the cost of getting things fixed is obviously very expensive But the quality of the things that are being fixed are just tremendously low. We were talking about this the other day and that you go up to LaBelle, I mean, that's

not like an extravagant part of town, right? And it wasn't where, you know, the big wealthy guys of Steubenville, like the managers of the mills and the mines worked for most of the neighborhood, but you walk in and the woodworking is just exquisite. I mean, it's just something that you do not find today. No way. And those are just all the workers. What is it?

Why is that? Just mass produced, manufactured cheaply? It's all MDF, which is that cardboard trim. And that's what we have these days. But those guys were, they were using hand planes to make doors and all this stuff on site. Some of those kitchens in the old houses were made right there in the living room

with hand planes, you know, and hand saws. It's incredible. It's incredible. Yeah, and just getting more people in the trades means that quality actually can get better. No, I, you know, I see that there's so many factors that include, that are part of the decline of Good craftsmanship work. I think the financial system is certainly one of those

I think it's very interesting the Austrian School of Economics, which I often bash or actually did a pretty good job of explaining some of this the but but I really do believe that Not concentrating on it not sending some of our best nines and men to it I mean, you know, you guys can be you guys be going you guys are gonna be raising up disciples Yeah, like, you know spiritually but also men who know how to do things who have been spread throughout the country. Yeah helping people Creating beautiful things. I hope so wonderful. It It's gonna be wonderful. Now you will. Whether you want to or not, the bull's rolling. We have to create beautiful things too.

I mean, if like, if you know, take a, you know, I love Andrew's dad's example of like, if a house is just for function, we just build a steel box and live in it. But a house is not made for just function. Home is made for human flourishing. It has to be beautiful. Its form requires that it be beautiful. You know what was fascinating?

Or its function demands that. This past Lent I went to Krakow and flying over I saw all the new buildings that the communists built up. And I didn't realize that at the time I was just looking down at a bunch of ugly ass steel box buildings. I was like, what the hell? I thought I was in Europe. And then I went to downtown Krakow and was like almost moved to tears by the beauty of everything around me. But it's funny, hey?

Like what is that? You have the same experience in Italy when you go from Fiumicino Airport to Rome. You come right through the Eastern block and then you get to Rome and it's just, the beauty of Rome is. How we build says what we think man is It says a lot about what we think man is and is for don't you think course the communists built that way

You know, of course the fascists built that way. Yeah, I mean the fascists did some you know other things as well You know, it's architecture. That's kind of impressive I want to remind people again that the link to this fantastic college is directly below this video Please click on it. Please scroll through it. I would love to be your neighbor. Come and live with us. Come and do life with us. Come and experience our parish life. Come and send your kids here. Don't send them to land. Learn lesbian dance theory at Harvard or wherever. Like send them here. It's fascinating. Do it. Maybe they'll have a track. I don't know. But check it out, man. This is so exciting. Let's see here. And that was a joke. We're definitely not doing that.

Mitchell Godfrey asks, what do you recommend for someone gifted in math, chemistry and physics who is looking to pursue a career in engineering? Rarely do high schools have the ability to provide all the learning required to begin a career in one of those fields. That's a great question. I think that there there certainly was. I'm not really sure. I'm not familiar with it, but these co-op programs where people go one semester on and one semester off working in the classroom, studying engineering

and then one semester in some job actually putting in the practice what you're learning. And Joe McGurn did that, he lives here locally. He seems like he went to school a little while ago, but no offense, Joe, you look great, man. But I think that's just an awesome program. If there's some of those around there, around the country, I think that makes a great bit of sense

to check out. Katie did it, probably not a real name. She did. She's a champ. She became a supporter on Locals. That's what she did. That's her response to Nike. Yeah. Just do it. I did. Leave me alone. Just to ask the question, yes, women are permitted to come to the college. Oh yeah, that's important to say. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, your children who are female are more handy than I am. I don't know if I'm ashamed to say it, it's just a fact.

I mean, we've hired them to do stuff. They're terrific. I have six more daughters that need to go to college and they'll probably all go. Yeah, how many kids do you have, Mike? Yeah. Only 11. Yeah, only 11, yeah. Nine daughters and two sons.

No, but that is important because we said it while we were laughing, but obviously women are completely welcome. Absolutely. This isn't just going to be a boys club. Nope, it's not. And I think that there's, you know, my daughters are really interested in this. They're really interested in the trades, but they're also interested in the intellectual, Catholic intellectual tradition and uh, I think you know last night

We were talking about the website and I showed my daughter Who's 18? The uh, I just showed her the website and she started applying Oh my goodness right out of the gate and uh, it's pretty it's that's pretty exciting. Yeah, he was struck a nerve Yeah, I think I have my children go to your school I think Liam would thrive. He never made a first come. Yeah. Yeah, I would say, you know just in terms of This is you know, truly to say something like this, but Obviously we want to encourage women to come we hope that you'll come we would love to

To train you up but there is like the question in many women's minds, it's like, well, you know, what about being a mom? And that's a really important, you know, question because that is a full-time thing. That's an all-time thing. It's all hours in the night thing. And so is being a craftsman in a certain regard. It's not an all night thing, but it's a nine to five thing.

And so there is a natural fittingness for the skilled trades to be done by men. And there's a reason why 98 thing. And so there is a natural fittingness for the skilled trades to be done by men. And there's a reason why 98% of carpenters or whatever are men, 99% of masons are men. There's a reason because there's a self-selection process in that too. So we just don't want to, we're not trying to cast aspersions or anything like that. We just want to be realistic and let people know that that is part of the discernment that women are going to have to do. Yeah.

When you consider- Well, they can come here for a year. We've got a lot of beautiful, not beautiful, handsome, rugged young men. Oh, absolutely. They could marry. They can do the accelerated BA track, you know, as well. And you know, my wife comes from a family of carpenters, you know, her dad was a carpenter, her brother's, you know as well and you know my my wife comes from a family of carpenters you know her dad was a carpenter, her brother's you know.

But this idea that men are just naturally more predisposed to figure out how things work is false. I agree with everything you just said there about men working nine to five you know there's a reason that self-selecting that 99% of men are masons etc. but you know this idea that women can't figure stuff out is just so bull crap. Oh yeah totally. Geez. She's just so bull crap. Oh, yeah, totally cheese So we have women professors though. Oh, yeah, we have an every intention, but again, we're not going to be You know, we're trying to find the best candidates. That's right. Oh, so but yeah

Proud of my wife for actually knowing how to do stuff, you know? Totally. And you know something. Your wife's so freaking cool. She reminds me of my wife. My wife's just like super competent. I love that woman. She never say that to her face. So Gwen worked construction with me when we were newly married.

Oh really? I didn't know that. Who's this? My wife, yeah, when we were newlyweds, we did a bunch of jobs together, just construction jobs around in Denver. And we had a blast. It was fun. It's so cool. Yeah, I love that. All right, so Katie did it says

She says unless your child has a specific career path that requires college I would suggest them taking courses at a local community college or trade school and building work experience Check in with unions to see if they have on-the-job paid apprentice programs I know I be W does for line workers. My youngest might be called to the priesthood. He's only 10, but those little hints keep being dropped that have me thinking, okay, God, W international brotherhood of electrical. Did you know what that was? I'm glad you'd look that up cause I didn't know it.

So he, you know, she says her youngest is maybe destined to the priesthood should this be so How can I pay for seminary on a working-class income? I don't know how that works. I don't know that you need to I mean I think most seminaries Cover the cost of tuition, right? I think yeah, that's what my experiences so but I think she's spot-on with the other things She said, you know about taking classes at a community college or local union hall if they've got classes available. Look at this, this John Stewart just wrote in, he said, how can we help the university start?

What do you need? Money, volunteers, connections? I would love to be a part of this. All of it. Yeah. Thank you. John, you're the man. John is the man.

Yeah, well, I should say, so we have right now our workshop building that's owned, paid for by the college. We're renting the All Saints thanks to the diocese, thanks to Father Huffman. We also have a great agreement with somebody that owns the Villa Maria up on 7th Street. Mike can tell us a little bit more about the background for that. But we are trying to build out an academic, or not build out, we're trying to acquire. We think that most things in downtown Somerville are beautiful and just need to

be restored rather than something else needs to be made. And we have, so we have a capital campaign going to be able to purchase that and expand our faculty as well. So it's really important for us. How can people like John get in touch with you? Yeah, please, you know, send send us a note if you go on to our website down at the bottom, click the link in the description. Yep, there are at the bottom of every page. And in the footer you have our email address, our phone number, get in touch with that that

way. Donations. You can get on our email list on the bottom. You can get on our email list at the bottom of the page. And then there's a donate button and an apply button. And you can click any of those if that's where you're heading. Yep. Another cool thing, you know, if somebody wants to like intentionally sponsor a student

to go through, they can do that. You know, they can cover the cost of the $15,000 a year and actually get to know them. They can write, you know, back and forth with one another. We, you know, this is a lot of different organizations that attempt to raise funds and do raise funds. They just like name things after their donors to kind of boost up their pride and stuff like that. And that's one reason they do it. But you know, the Catholic tradition has always like put, you know, people's names on the stained glass or whatever. And that's not to just boost the pride.

That's so that people will pray for them. Yeah. You know, and I think that's why really important. That's why in your toilet, it says, please pray for Matt Fred. Yeah. The toilet's been named after me. Right? Yeah. The show won the toilet's been named after me.

Right. Yeah. That's the reason why we did that. Yeah. You should have gone really bad before you got your house. It's a great point. I think when you do see names under stained glass, that's what I've

thought. I'm like, oh, they need their names there. You're exactly right. Please pray for the something family or this person. Yeah, yeah. No, we're all and we're all dependent on one. This is, you know, amazing.

Gosh, gosh. So good. Let's see what else we got here. Many says Woodsman MN says many of our workplaces and schools are increasingly post Christian and push. Yep. And essentially require acceptance of a progressive agenda. workplaces and schools are increasingly post-Christian and push, uh, and essentially require acceptance of a progressive agenda. What do you think would need to be true for it to make sense for a Catholic to

leave this type of setting? So maybe we've got parents right now. They've just sent their kid to the first year of university. They don't like what they're saying. They maybe want, should be stopped. Should they stop paying for it? What, what should they do? What do you think?

I would, you know, obviously that's an individual prudential judgment. The, uh, the way that I would approach those kind of environments would be. How toxic is it? Is it endangering my child or my loved one, uh, in their, you know, their faith and their, um, personal formation? Is it good for them? Are they going to grow from this? I mean, sometimes those things are good to toughen us up, but oftentimes they're just poisonous and toxic. And so I would, you know, use some prudence and discern based on what do

we project the outcome of this to be and how soon do we need to, you know, get the kid out of that environment or whatever, you know, That's how I would approach it. Yeah, I think that's true. If it is, there's also the question of why are they being sent to university? If it is to get the kind of middle class status, upper class status of being a proud degree holder, there's maybe something to check about that. If it's for financial reasons. You know, we went through and found that the average craftsman will out earn the average undergraduate, the person who has an

undergraduate degree until they're 52 years old. And if they are a plumber or an electrician, they'll never be, you never be caught up with. They'll never outpace them. So there's, and that's not to just be a fanboy for the trades. There's many different things that people, many different jobs that people can have without an undergraduate degree, obviously. And those should be seriously considered. A fellow here by the name of Fat John, not Fat John, maybe it's Fat John. What do you think about a European style of university?

They are free for everyone to access and usually more open minded of different ideas. Also being all public, there is no much, not much difference between most of them. Usually we have no elite university, but they are. Quite even in teaching methods. I don't understand that last bit, but yeah,, so I mean, so I studied in England, which, you know, it's a little bit different, obviously, than just the rest of the continent. And, you know, I'm just, I don't know,

I apologize, I'm a fan of, you know, the time that I had there and the professors I was able to study with. And also I really liked the model that they have. But the thing is that that's an incorporation of the big state and that's not something that Americans really go for. We're becoming increasingly wary of it even though we've more or less welcomed it in our lives in these recent years.

And I think again, you know, taking seriously those principles of subsidiarity, there's ways of being able to Get better solutions than than that. I would I would you know, that's a larger conversation But those are my my first thoughts. Here's a question for you Mike. His name is Cameron gw20 Hey any advice for someone who wants to get into the woodworking into woodworking as a profession? saying Joseph He asked this question before the episode went live. So, okay. Um, come to our college.

Yeah. You know, that would be one. I think, um, practically wherever you are, uh, see if you can find a shop like what we've got where you can subscribe to a wood shop and go and use their tools for whatever the monthly charges, um, try to do a lot of reading and study YouTube videos about carpentry. Those are all things that I've done in my life to learn how to do different things.

Also, if there's somebody who is very good at it that you know that is a great carpenter, see if you can study under them. See if they'll bring you on as an apprentice. Yeah. How has your experience been signing? I let them just remind people what you've done and what it's been like. Yeah. Well, I basically, oh, there's no, yeah, I don't have a mic.

So I'll have to yell. But basically I wanted to make for my girlfriend some planters for the front of her house. This she was saying, oh, I want to paint stuff. So I was back in Georgia. I had a table saw that I inherited. But I left that there. So I was like, oh, should I buy a new table saw? And I'm like, probably I should just go to this shop that has all these great tools and has a community around it

and people that can help me learn how to use these tools better. And so I really just walked in the front door of New Pauly because I didn't realize there was a separate door for the wood shop. And I said, hey, I'm looking for information about the wood shop and then Alex walked me over to the right door. Alex is a man.

It was time for when I needed to come in and do training and then I really just signed up that day. Even just in the training I didn't know what a joiner was. I didn't realize the importance of that tool to actually make the wood nicer to work with because I you know throwing together stuff with like two by fours before I built the desk and I was always like why does this feel like it's made from two by fours? So I felt like I already learned a lot just from the training. I haven't that was last like earlier this week. I think by Saturday I did the training so I haven't actually been back to the shop yet, but I'm really excited to yeah

So cool You seem kind of well, I won't keep talking to you because you have a microphone But you're a handy guy like your way, you know, I've seen you do stuff around the office You just like to figure it out But just just real quick has this been like a kind of empowering experience for you just a little you've worked it that's awesome no you didn't even pay him to say that yeah awesome so cool you'll be happy to know I started my first furniture was two-by- four special furniture tables and

whatever. Hey, I just want to remind people again about this Jason Coy knives. Could you show them the knives even just drag an image onto the screen or share the screen with them? If you missed earlier on this fella sent me this glorious knife and he's not paying me to promote him, but I want to because he's a good Catholic craftsman So if you go to Jason koi knives calm Jason COY knives calm you can see all the fantastic Knives he's got there and at checkout if you type in frad 10 Frad D D 1 0 you'll get 10% off now. These aren't cheap trinkets. These are expensive knives

This one cost five hundred dollars. It's worth every penny. Is it? Why is it worth every penny? It was handmade and it's more durable and better than anything you can get from yeah So if you're sick of getting crap then as they say in Australia waters free whiskey cost money You're gonna have to spend some money, but you type in frad 10 at checkout. You'll get 50 bucks off You get 10% off so go do that. Did you show them some of the images there? Yeah, I guess I just want to reiterate like the guy he's not like I'll pay you to do this at all I just think it's wonderful. It's wonderful to see people doing this. So please go check him out. We do like a demonstration

But then I'd be afraid it wouldn't work and it would make him look bad or Mike try now. Maybe we'll do that just for our patrons. All right. And local supporters. So right after this, we'll do a demonstration and we'll upload it to locals and Patreon. So you guys can see it'll be a show wrap up video. What else do we want to say before we wrap up today? You know, there's this I really love thinking about the theoretics of this, obviously, but, so, but I'll try not to make this all too

abstract. You know, St. Thomas makes this more or less famous distinction between studiositas and curiositas. You know, these are, these are virtue and a vice and it's opposing vice as it pertains to the life of the mind and study. You know, studiositas is attempting to look at the world, understand how it dynamically fits together and do something about it. You know, that's, that's how he discusses it. You know, there is something of the contemplative life that leads back into the act of life. And then again, the act of life to the contemplative life, but it's for the sake of building up the common good and being a better part of it.

Curiosity is idle on the one hand, it is it's it's trying to just scratch an intellectual itch. But on the other hand, it's also could be some sort of study so as to manipulate or to build up pride. You know, these are, you know, different motivations and intentionality of approaching study. And there is the same dichotomy in terms of the life of work, you have what you call the virtue of industriousness. That's like Peter John of a levy discusses or, or, you know, John Paul the second and the LeBorg McSersons again.

And then on the other side, you have some sort of like toil some work industriousness is actually trying to work. So as to give a gift to somebody else, that's the point of work, you know, where we work so as to be able to benefit our neighbors. Obviously there's some self-referentiality involved when we charge for it. And that's, you know, nothing against that, but the actual content of our work is a gift to our community. And that's, and that's industriousness. That is like the right orientation towards, industriousness, that is like the right orientation towards,

towards work. And it, and it couples well with studiositas in that regard. But you also, and toilsome work is the thing that parallels curiosity and, and it's something that is manipulative, that is self centric to its core, that you're doing it for yourself. John Paul II, his like prime example for that is speculation, is a work, a financial work that gives no benefit to the community. He condemns it with really strong language and sentesimus on us, you know. And, but that's,

you know, the extreme of it. How many other things, you know, ought to be condemned as well, just even with our approach, you know, there's ways in which we can be dignified, just even within the intention of the same jobs that we are currently doing. And I really hope that that's something that we can start to infuse into our students. You know, we haven't even said this yet, but this is obviously a school for the laity. You know, we're not trying to send off students to the priesthood here. That happens great, but we're really trying to build up a great laity class who is, St. Vatican Council continuously reiterates, are here to sanctify the temporal order. Well, what's

the temporal order? Well, it's actually in some senses, the inverse of the vows that all religious take. So, whereas the religious take vows of poverty, you know, we are like working, earning money. Whereas religious take vows of chastity, we're getting married, we're having families. And whereas religious take vows of obedience, we are actually taking over in politics. So those are our three real focuses in the Catholic intellectual tradition, in our Catholic studies degree of work, family, and politics. And they might, you know, especially the family one kind of might sound a little bit hokey, but we're trying to get down to the real

metaphysical roots of these things to really understand the world, the cosmic order, how we are to fit into it, and then also to do something about it. It's extremely rigorous. We have phenomenal professors. I'm really, you know, proud of some of the guys that we have on there, especially John Bergsmuh. You've had him on this show. He's incredible. He's just a beauty. I'm totally a fanboy of him. You know, I'm so embarrassed by him. And he's the best guy.

Yes. He's such a good guy. Yeah, he's a great man. So, you know, this is going to be a real rigorous study, but these are kind of the, you know, then this is a narrow path or how we're trying to get through the narrow path in what we're teaching and what we hope to cultivate in the souls and hearts of our students.

Mike? I just encourage people to go to our website, check it out, read our mission statement and our vision statement. They're a beautiful reflection that the whole team put together, but mostly Jacob and Andrew. And it was spread out credit there. Yeah, it's needed to be. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's just a beautiful reflection on work and study. And it's really fantastic. How long is the

mission statement? It's a couple of pages. 1500 words. I'm not gonna read it. 1500 words is like three pages. Yeah, don't read it out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The mission statement is two sentences, but that's a different thing.

The word became flesh and picked up a hammer. That's the best line. Yeah. T-shirts. Oh yeah, we do need some swag, don't we? I love your logo too. It's beautiful. Dignified.

Love it. Yeah. Well, it's going to be, it's going to be a fun process. Please pray for us as we go through. And please give. I think this is, you know, I'm usually very scared to ask for money for things, but I think this is just one of those, you know, these endeavors that really, I do believe it will be a great benefit to the church.

I hope that you'll, you'll join these endeavors that really, I do believe it will be a great benefit to the church. I hope that you'll, you'll join us in that, or really count our, our donors as being partners in this, in this mission. And and we'd love to show you around student bill if you want to go check it out too. Yeah. So to that end, if people have questions, they can go to the website, links in the description, they can email you, can they call you up? Can they chat?

Absolutely. Our numbers on the, on the website. There you go. Yeah, that'd be great. Get all your, great. Get all your questions answered and then show up. We'd love to have you. Yeah, I'm excited about all that's happening in Steubenville. Am I right to be? It's fantastic.

Yes, it's we're at the top of the tidal wave. It's about to go. It's you really believe I totally believe it. Yep. I do. I do. I do too. Being purchased and renovated and there's just so much going on.

You should do people. You should sell your house for a million dollars, even though you bought it for a hundred thousand last year. And then you should come and buy a house here for the price of a car. Or VCR. Nice VCR. Top of the range VCR. VCR.

Oh my gosh. We'd love to have you. Alright, God bless y'all, thanks so much for watching. Cheers. Bye.