Pints With Aquinas - Failing in REAL Things is Better than Succeeding in FAKE Things w/ John Henry Spann

Episode Date: October 9, 2022

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I said do you love me? She says no, but that sure is a nice ski mask. Are we actually live right now? Oh nice. How are you John Henry? I'm pumped. I'm happy. Yeah, great to have you here. Great to have you here today We are opening chested and cigars. Oh, hey, that's us talking. That's what we look like Oh good, if we could just play that so we have a constant How are you Is there like a seven-second delay yeah in there yeah, so like if somebody says something Right before and I know that we're like you can't tell if you're watching this But if you look if you were to look out that window today is like the perfect

Steubenville day it's like overcast and it's really like that. There is some beauty to the like the rust belt Whatever you call that you know what I mean. There's like this rustic beauty of the decrepitude Like last night when you were talking to Dave you like yeah, I love I love you town You know it's just like shitty and I'm like and he's like well There's an authenticity to it because I live or I live outside of, but I work within that North Metro Atlanta area that's all up and coming and every day,

it seems like there's a big new shopping center or a big new exciting outdoor mall or something. And everything is like shiny and new and fancy and it's boring. Well, I love what you said to me last night. Kind of summed it up. You said this is less real than a agrarian living, but it's way more real than like North Atlanta suburbs living. I was just having that conversation with Neil while you were going to get your spectacles. Yeah. Your spectacles out of the car. Yeah. Then in the hierarchy,

I think. Can you hear him that far away from the microphone? Also right before the show, for anybody who's listening, I said, Matt has been more difficult of a microphone placement guy than anybody I've ever worked with. You said that to him before I came up. No, I said that just to you. Yeah, you did, yeah.

But speaking of microphone placements, do you have a radio show, you said? I do have a radio show. You like that setup? Yeah, that was a great segue. Oh! What's it said? I do have a radio show. You like that setup? Yeah, that was a great segue. Oh, what's it called? I want to look it up.

Oh yeah, it's big, big AM 1160, the Quest, in Latin Catholic radio. AM Catholic radio, dozens of listeners nationwide. If I YouTube it, what do I type? Honest to God. The name of the show is Honest to God. And then because it's an AM radio show, you have to add maybe quest after it.

OK. And that's your name. Yeah. And it's real small potato. Hey, this is so cool. Please don't pull up and play it on air. There you go. You know, did the visuals and the music and everything. Ben.

Yeah, you can play. Oh, look at him. Put it up on screen, Neil. I can't see. We'll see. Put it up on screen? Yeah, you can play. Oh, look at him! Put it up on screen, Neil. Is nothing compromised? I can't see. We'll see. Put it up on screen. All right, no, no, there's nothing. Oh, then don't put it up on screen.

No need. Oh, here, maybe it's because of this. There you go. That's right. Boom. But it's Ben Barron. Is it working now? No.

You know Ben Barron, don't you? Okay, can everyone see it? All right, let's play John Henry right now. I hate this so much. All right, I do not know this right now. I hate this so much First thing More hot priests, all right I'm gonna find you a different place. What are you looking for in a guy?

All right, so I just fast forward now, let's see what he says here. Probably more literal than what you're talking about, but I have a story from a friend of mine's friend, and I will not tell either of their names because it's horribly embarrassing. When my friend's friend was dating his wife, they were walking in the woods,

and one of their friends had snuck through the woods to jump out in front and scare them and they did and my- Why have you tell stories when we can play this guy? Play, that's a good story. And his friend shoved his then girlfriend to the ground and ran in the opposite direction. That's a true story. He might have been flying, he chose to fight.

Yeah. Did they get married? Yeah, they're married. They got kids and stuff. Wow. Yeah, yeah. There's exceptions to that. So, yeah, no, no.

No, I think the lesson, ladies, is get one of your friends to do that, and then if he shoves you to the ground and run away, then you just run with him and then pass them and then to the cult. We can do this, but... No, that's really cool. You look good. It sounds good. It's Ben Barron.

Good for you. It's Ben Barron. He does all the production stuff on this, but it's with the Quest Atlanta. Looks great. Big shout out to Janis Givens and all the wonderful people down there Look, so if you type in honest-to-god quest Neil, could you put his? YouTube channel in the description Actually, it looks amazing. Good for you. It's a good joke. You played it down

I think to me or maybe you didn't mean to but well, no, I just so it looks really great But but what I'm always trying to whenever I bring it up whenever I'm talking about it with anybody I'm trying to say and we're not trying to do some super produced Whatever this is you know, this is I don't get paid a dime to do it Yeah It's a ministry in a lot of ways and the show is it's just a young adult show like college through 30 somethings right and we just have randos on like awesome people from we'll call up the North Georgia Catholic Center and say hey citizen people and

Anyone in particular now don't matter Great conversations and it was the brainchild of Not me. It's not the John Henry Spain show at all I'm just the moderator and I can't help myself because I'm an only child and I like to hear myself talk and whatever So I will go off on some you know some tangents. But it's mostly just all of these different people with these different backgrounds talking about being Catholic and young and the things that they're dealing with.

And I feel like kids in high school, we minister to really well. And then college, we minister to really well. And then it's like, all right, well it is spring of your senior year. If you don't have your ring on your finger, you don't get any community. See you later. And then we sort of throw them out and that's not on purpose

But it's like those people they you know you become a young adult you get a job you go out into the world And then all of a sudden you don't have anybody There there's not things that are really built towards you you have people aren't going looking for you anymore Is that something you experienced after you left college or is it something you're ex you see your? Yeah, you perhaps the people you teach as they grow older, you're seeing that in their lives? Well, I mean, I had a ring on my finger. I graduated in December and I was married in April.

I was engaged through that. But my community is still, my root community are still those college, my college friends. So here we are a decade and a half later and those are still the people I hang out with and I work in this little awesome Catholic school. And if you don't do that, you know, my life is not normal. Most people don't graduate from a Catholic college with Catholic friends, marry a Catholic, you know, wonderful woman, and then move into a Catholic community

right away, right? They go out into the real world, and I say real world, not to mean like that's a fake world that I live in, but you're sort of on your own. And if you're working a nine to five, you know as a Low level accountant or something and you're not married and anything but it's fun and it's just practical Like we just did a show on dating apps like which ones are actually good any good. So this was the consensus Okay, it'll be out in a little while

I don't know that much about I'm gonna butcher some names, but there's like the the Tinder which is which is just the hookup app Right in there. Yeah, they're sort of in the categories is what they were telling me I've never had a dating app me too except for a fake Catholic match profile I made to make fun of one of my friends in college, which was not okay I kind of I want to hear that so we shouldn't know what I got tell a story story but But there's the there's the tender like just hook up apps Yeah, and then there's the the big one they kept talking about was hinge, once again, I don't know anything about it. But they said the app sort of, there's a hierarchy

of how much more information you can give about yourself. And the ones that are geared towards images as opposed to information are the ones worth staying away from. They're more trashy. But it was really interesting. They went through how that works. Be a free prostitute, that's a...

Anthony Esseland. That's not really, but that is what you're doing Yeah, that's what fornication is favorite quotes from Anthony Esalen. You know I'm gonna say okay. I need to clarify It's not what fornication is people can have different degrees in relationships It's not like there's beautiful holy marriage and den of iniquity It's like those are the only two options right but a lot of these apps amount to is just like I want to have a hooker But I don't have to pay for one Anthony Esalen says that he's not talking about the apps in particular,

but he's talking about modern hookup culture that the people who engage in it are literally, they're saying that they're that they are worth less than prostitutes because he's saying at least when a prostitute says I'll have sex with you, she's saying, my body's worth a hundred bucks an hour as opposed to you that saying, well, it's worth a wink and make me feel good. Maybe I pick up one. That's good. It's awful But anyway, it's been like like who are you talking to about these at least girls? You're talking to about the experience of the app so the Apple we had guys and girls on and but it was it was people

Who were saying ages or? That one was mostly not teenagers. It was mostly young adults That's good makes me so sad that there are teenagers using apps to hook up. But this is a serious question, because I thought about this, right? If Cameron runs off with a cabana boy tomorrow and you're... A what? Cabana boy? Cabana boy, right? Or whatever. Your marriage dissolves tomorrow for whatever reason.

It's in old and all of a sudden you're on the market. I have... I mean, I'm not married to Cameron, but that happened to me. I have no idea. I honestly don't know how people date. I don't know how you meet girls. You could have used a different analogy. you could have said if your wife died She'd have to go off with a cabana boy shit. Do you have a cabana boy? I'm never gonna get Honest I don't really know what a cabana boy is I have a pool and him next to it. He's wearing a speedo

Yeah, he's in great shape. He's really tan and he's like fishing something out of the pool. Yeah, he's got a really great like Antonio Banderas in the early 90s accent. So what would you do if Ange died tonight? Would you want to get remarried? Realist. I mean, so right now, realistically, I would want to move into the woods. And if I didn't have kids, I would just want to die. I'd want to sit around and wait to die. And I hope over time that would go away. But if she died tomorrow and I have these children to take care of, I guess I'd want to sit around and wait to die and I hope over time that would go away

But if she died tomorrow, and I have these children to take care of I guess I would have to soldier on yeah true story George Washington's father right I told you this no his mom died on like a Tuesday or something George Washington's mother Okay, and like a week later his father goes into town and gets married and brings her back His father goes into town and gets married and brings her back The joke I always have with Angie is that if she were to die I'm gonna go find some some woman mid 60s overweight Incredible cook and she's not gonna speak English. She's gonna speak like Russian or something and I'm never gonna learn Russian She's never gonna learn English and there's not gonna be any physical intimacy there

It's gonna be a totally dissolvable marriage We will never consummate and we're just going to live in this constant state of like understanding like every morning I'll wake up and she'll just say like breakfast And give me breakfast. What does she get out of this relationship? I'm gonna take care of her. She's gonna have a great house I'm gonna take her out. I'm gonna be great to this woman. We're just gonna have this very great house. I'm going to take her out. I'm going to be great to this woman. We're just going to have this very

platonic, not even platonic. You won't be friends. It's more. No, no, I'm going to love her. You will both love each other. There'll be no talk. Does she have any children that she brings? She has one that never gets older. He's eight.

What's his name? What's his Igor? OK, Igor, Igor. She just there's a lot of snapping. Yeah. And then Igor's very he's very like subservient like timid and nice and we have a couple of moments I just sort of put my hand on his shoulder and I'm like, it's gonna be okay Yeah, I don't know what that is in context to but yeah, and my kids are gonna grow up and age out I'm gonna live with this perpetually 68 year old woman and a perpetually eight year old son Igor

Yeah, I don't think I would get married again. I really don't. Like real talk, I don't think I would ever try to get married again. Do you think realistically you would feel different in five years of just being lonely? Yeah, possibly. I don't, it felt like when we were younger,

I don't know if it was, I was less aware of how messy I was. And then you get married and all of your mess comes to the surface. And while I'm a difficult person, you mean like metaphorical mess. Yeah. Not like maybe both. That's part of the mess, you know. Right. I don't know. Like when you get married young, it's. You know, it's difficult to live with, like my wife and I've been married 16 years.

I love her to death. She's beautiful. I'd kill anyone that hurts her. Love her. Right. And I'd invite you to help me kill them. 100 percent. I can keep my mouth shut. I know I got a lot of land by you but Well, what one thing that seems so and it's gonna sounds cliche when I say it but that you hear when you're younger Mm-hmm is you'll hear people talk about how like you they love their wives so much more and when I was a kid They are I'm sorry as they get older they you love your life your wife so more. And I was a kid and a younger man, I remember sitting with Angie in an IHOP or something,

and you would look at old people. What old people do? They just sort of sit there silently, like just eating oatmeal, not even really looking at each other. And I used to always interpret that as, oh, you're old, and you're out of things to say to each other.

I thought that too. And now I'm starting to see it more and more as you're just comfortable and love and like, okay Sitting there in that silence and being in the no, I did the exact same thing with my wife and I were dating at a pub I remember looking at this couple who weren't talking and just thinking how sad like we have everything to talk about never be like that Mm-hmm, but I can't wait to be like that. I had this thought this morning that I shared with Cameron I'm just playing with it I don't know if it's true or not

But I said to her and I don't think this is true, but I want to see if there's any truth in it. I said, I don't think women are beautiful until they're at least 30. Before 30, they're really interesting. Oh, OK. I see the distinction. But they're not yet beautiful. But I don't know if that's true, because obviously I would have said maybe it's because I'm old and now 20 year olds look like 10 year olds to me.

I don't know. I don't think that's true. I disagree with that. I think I was having a conversation in a theology the body class a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about modesty or something and We were talking about when you're walking down the street at the beach or whatever and a girl walks by and she's wearing a string Bikini you see a billboard. That's basically pornographic trying to say like a cheeseburger or something I saw a sexy cheeseburger billboard the other day. It's a true story Or pornography itself, right and when you're when you're a man's a true story. Or pornography itself, right? And when you're a man,

I think if we're honest with ourselves, right? Especially when we're younger men, when you see pornography or a girl who's scantily clad or dressed really immodestly, you look at that and there is like a lizard brain response that is eye-catching. That is thrilling, that is exciting. My heart beats faster and chemicals in my brain

start to do the things that they're supposed to do But you never find that beautiful right you never find that attractive Right you find it. We were attracted in a base sense, but not in a deep way hedonistic kind of way Yeah, right And I was saying that out loud to these boys and these boys and our hands for this back and forth there are all these Young women in the room and the idea was like when you see that woman, you're not saying, oh my goodness, you're someone I want to get to know. Like, let me, you are beautiful.

I want to give my, I want to die to myself for your sake. Have my children. Let me love them out of you all the days of my life. That never crosses your mind. Whereas beauty is in this different category. It's mysterious. Well, the hedonism and the baseness stripped away. Yeah.

And it's the, I want you. That's why nuns are so beautiful. Yeah. I think you're right. Jason Everett has this line where he says the problem with dressing immodestly is if the first thing that attracts a man's attention is your body, he's tempted to get to know the body, not the person. Whereas what you want to present is your person, which includes your body. But it's it's veiled and it's mysterious and alluring in the right way.

Well, one of the most beautiful women that I've had any contact with in the right way. Well, one of the most beautiful women that I've had any contact with in the past year was a old wheelchair bound nun in the airport when we were coming back from Africa. Do you remember that? I didn't meet her, but you came and told me that. I kneeled down beside her and we held hands and she couldn't even speak English really well, but she sort of motioned to me and I, you know, I always make an effort of being like, just thank you for your vocation, God bless you or whatever.

And she just sort of reached out to me, and she sort of patted my hand, and she said some things to me, I have no idea what they were. But it was good, it was great. And there is that attraction that you feel towards them that doesn't have any of that filth mixed in. It's sort of like, not to go down, not to get too much into sexuality,

but it's sort of like sex or sexual activity outside of marriage, right before you were married, because I sort of like sex or sexual activity outside of marriage right before you were married, because I sort of had this checkered, you know, whatever before I met my bride. And then within, whereas beforehand, not to be crass, but it feels like scratching an itch in a way, like oh good, okay, that thing that my body says

I need to do I've done and I felt good and that's over. But then there's sort of that, the barnacles and the filth and everything that's tied up in it. And then after you're married it's like, oh, that was that was great. That was amazing I'm not trying to know I got a great quote here that I want to look up from CS Lewis I've been on a CS Lewis kick lately. Yeah He has this great I don't know if I'll be able to find it, but it's about he says that. He talks about it's been lost in love, just like you're talking about,

scratching a niche and he says whether or not there's any real love there can be seen, whether you still want this woman after you're just being scratched. And he says, like a man doesn't keep the carton of cigarettes after he smoked them, right? Yeah, I shared that one with my with my theology the body kids. He's got so many awesome Quotes for theology the body like with that class with any of sort of philosophy classes or theology classes. I always try to tell the kids I'm not actually don't actually I'm not good at any of this stuff I just know people who are good at this stuff So we're gonna read and talk about things that people who are way better than I am and articulating things have to say

But wouldn't you say like you've gotten way better at these things by God's grace by God's grace And my husband you're borrowing heavily from people who are wonderful. Oh, you mean the things you're saying? Yeah Oh, I see. I thought you were saying like I'm not good at like loving my wife. I'm not good at chastity I'm not no, I think I absolutely need to grow in all of those things. But my whole life, I feel like has basically just been identifying people who are the kind of people I want to be like and just lashing myself to their masts. I said that to my boss the other day. I just want you to know that I've pretty much tied myself to your mast and I'm going wherever the ship goes. So if it goes down,

I'm going down with it because you are the kind of person I want to be your children are the kind of children I want mine to become You you got this way better than I do. I love that. Here's a quote from Lewis. He says lust is a poor weak whimpering whispering thing Compared with the richness and energy of desire which will arise when lust has been killed That's for you. It's good. He's the man. He is the man. I want to quote C.S. Lewis again. He would apparently smoke 60 cigarettes a day.

Great. It's awful. We don't endorse that here on Pints with a Coinless. And then, no, but the cigar lounge is opening tonight at 7 p.m. We're doing the ribbon cutting. We actually have a dude who plays Chesterton on the BBC, or has, not always does, but, and EWTN, and he's coming to cut our ribbon with a saber like like a walking stick So they're great apparently when Chesterton got married he bought a gun and a sword and he would always walk around

But the gun carried him all the time apparently I was at the Georgia Trappers Convention Auction, right Georgia like steel foot traps right there trap coyotes and all of these things and you have to be licensed and everything, but I've been getting into that with my kids and We were at the convention and it's like they had this auction But I've been to a lot of galas and stuff where this is a fancy auction and their auction off the trip This one is just like auction off stuff from people's sheds and I bought in the auction a love it for my son Yeah, a pirate saber like a real one not a toy. It's metal and anything. It's decorative You know you'd lose if you fought an actual pirate Yeah, a samurai katana and a giant broadsword like a Mel Gibson braveheart

I mean you say trash and people's sheds that sounds pretty fancy Yeah, but they're old they're old and rusty and they're cheaply made and the coolest stuff in the world Yeah, so we've been having a lot of a lot of sword fights in my backyard. Should we talk about Africa? I would love to talk about we could process Africa because you and I haven't really hung out since we went I don't think we've had a conversation other than text messages messages and me sending you photos of my face going For some reason that's weird. That's weird. That's different That's what I do. No, I think I appreciate my friends Yeah, so we went to well so it's about a couple of years ago. You said that you wanted to go hunt in Africa

So here's what it was you tell me you were going you had done that mission work in Uganda Yeah, Zimbabwe over there Uganda. Okay, and you were doing your next year. You were gonna go to Zimbabwe That's right, and a couple places like Kenya, yeah, Zimbabwe, right and you invited me to go and I said yeah I would love to go while we're there since I was eight. I've been dreaming about going hunting in Africa, right. I read Green Hills of Africa with Ernest Hemingway. It's not a narrative or it is a narrative but it's not it's a nonfiction, right. It a narrative, but it's nonfiction, right? It's just a real account of his trip that he took to Africa.

That's sort of stylized, but it's incredible. You've gotta read it. And it just lit this fire. That's like old school Africa before everything, right? Like, you know, out of Africa, Africa. That's another great book. And yeah, I wanted to go, and we actually had one set up. Like, you didn't know this, because because I hadn't I was getting it all

Done on the back end Yeah, you said you set it up and then let me know and I'll sort of come in yeah and we had a trip set up in Zimbabwe which I'm really glad it ended up falling through actually because From what I understand about the just the whole situation in Zimbabwe verse where we went in Namibia I feel much better about hunting in Namibia, we can talk more about that later if you want to. But, and it was gonna be a short trip. It was gonna be a couple of days just after a mission trip

before we flew home. And then COVID happened. I got it all squared away in February of 2020, I think. And then COVID happened and we didn't get to go. And I was super bummed. And I don't even remember how I was able to pay for it Then for the Zimbabwe one, but I it for whatever reason now I had in my head I've got a hunt in Africa

We're gonna hunt in Africa and so then it ended up coming together a big shout out to the stimulus That was supposed to stimulate the American economy that I spent all on in the movie Yeah, maybe in Safari. Yeah, but it was killer I I want to hear your opinions on it because I I do that thing You know, I go to an outfit at hunts and I go all over the only hunting I did prior to this is when you hang one of those sticky tapes up in your kitchen to catch flies No, I watch I helped you step on a mouse in a closet. That's true. And we did we did do that yeah, but you know, I'd never been hunting and you said you wanted to do it. And, uh,

we had a couple of years to kind of put some money away and it wasn't as expensive as I thought, actually. I was really surprised, but well, and I, I think I confess this to you, but I had told everyone I knew how worried I was about you being in Africa because my fear was we were going to do one day, one day out there. And it was going to be hard. It was going to be sweaty and everything. And at the end you were going to give me like, do you mind if tomorrow I just I was going to read like Brothers

Karamozov and drink some tea instead. Like, yeah, fine. I'll be here. I'll just hold down the floor. That's a fair, fair fear. Yeah, I think my wife was afraid. I was kind of afraid of that as well. I wasn't really afraid of it. I just thought, I don't know if I really enjoy this. It's funny. This would make sense in a minute.

But like a couple of months before that, I went golfing for the first time. Like I've been to driving ranges and putt putt. I've been putting on actual golf greens and things like that, but I've never played a whole round of golf. And I went with a few fellas from here and hated it so much. And so I was kind of afraid it was going to be like that.

That's why I think day two, as we were like, hiking through the Savannah, I looked at you and said, this is so much better than golf. You don't remember? No, I do remember that. But I also remember never following up and I thought it was a straight, Oh, I just loved it so much, man. I just had such a great time. Before we get to Africa, let's talk about our flight over. That was amazing. So we were right by the toilet.

I want to talk about Delta sky Sky Lounge's oh my god or Virgin Atlantic We're gonna tell that yeah, so but before we get to there okay alright So you were like I'm just gonna have four bourbons and go to sleep on this airplane I'm like I'm not gonna be out of sleep on this airplane so we're right up the back of Virgin Airlines And we fly I don't know how long it takes eight hours or something to get to London. It's forever. Yeah. And it was eight hours to London and then 12 hours to Johannesburg. Yeah. So we got there and both of us were so exhausted.

And London Heathrow Airport was just packed to the gills. It was completely uncomfortable. There was no free seats to just sit on. We found some seats, got ready to go to bed, and then we're immediately kicked out by the nicest airport whatever lady. So sorry, you guys can't be here. This is actually a closed area. Did you see the signs? So you laid down on the hard floor and promptly fell asleep. I slept for three hours.

It's so amazing. I don't know how you do it. I can fall asleep right now on air right here. Well, just straight. I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but let's not do it. But anyway, I was looking around while you were sleeping. I was so exhausted. And then I found Virgin Atlantic Lounge and then I came and I woke you up because it was worth waking you up.

You kicked me. I remember you kicking me on the ground because I went in there and I'm like, are you kidding me? It's if, if you've ever been like a Delta lounge or something, this is significantly so much better. So I came and I got you and I'm like, trust me. And what was it like? All right. I know. I know you've heard me say this before, so I'll, I'll tell it to Neil. Neil, did you ever watch the Twilight zone? Like did you, do you remember the episode where the guy, he's a criminal, he's like a mobster

He dies and he thinks he goes to heaven But he's really in hell, but he thinks he's in heaven because you remember this episode He wakes up in a hotel room and all the casino. He can't lose any of the games. He can't lose poker He can't lose blackjack He wins every time he he pulls the slots all the women love him. All the drinks are free. All the food. You can just walk up and order anything. And the episode, about the first three quarters of the episode, is him just having this great

time and then saying, I can't believe I actually made it to heaven. It's so easy to get up here. And then he starts to realize as time goes on, it's really boring. I'm winning everything. Everything's so great. The first three quarters of the episode is what the Virgin Atlantic Skylounge is. It is 6 a.m. and I'm on my second bourbon and it's free. great. The first three quarters of the episode is what the Virgin Atlantic sky lounge is. It is 6 AM and I'm on my second bourbon and it's free.

And we're sitting in this dark, they had these like lounges that were like rainforest looking around and they were enclosed. So we would both lay on these really lovely little couch chairs and then you would use your phone to order stuff and they would bring it to you and it was all free. Yeah, he kept clicking at people. I never, I never did that. Not once. I took a steam, I took a shower. Then I took a steam shower. Yes, yes. It was amazing.

It was. Yeah, we, we ordered so much food, like bacon and eggs and yeah, eggs Benedict and like five mimosas. And everybody's so nice. I mean, I'm sure they have mimosas everybody's so nice I mean I'm sure they have to be so nice it was amazing Delta Lounge was fine but it was like yeah they like the buffet there and whatever but Virgin Atlantic that was where it was at that was amazing so I really appreciate you flying all over the

place and having lots of miles yeah so then we went to Johannesburg. Johannesburg. It's awful. I don't like it. Lots of zebra parts for sale in the gift shop. I watched a bit of cricket in the smoke room. Did you watch cricket? I did. Oh, you explained cricket to me there. That's right.

Which was good because the other day I was house sitting and there were a bunch of boys playing cricket behind the house. Indian? Incoming. Yeah, little Indian boys. They love cricket. I understood it a little bit. Cricket's the second most watched sport after soccer. Really?

And it's because of our wonderful. I have no idea. Yeah. Baseball. Darts. I don't know. It's because of a wonderful Indian friends. But yeah, whenever I find people in America playing cricket, it's the Indians.

But I just love it. Yeah, I don't get it. But it's probably because I didn't grow up with it. Totally. Yeah. So we flew to Namibia. That was fun. grow up with it. Totally. Yeah, so we flew to Namibia That was fun the little air link flight Yeah, yeah, that was good. And then we got off in the Namibia Airport is about the size of an average like racetrack gas station And then we get in a car and we drive and as soon as you leave

Ventok right which is the capital of Namibia like as soon as you cross out of it Remember the roads just stop being there stopping Rose I drove you didn't go with me this time but one of the days I drove two and a half hours somewhere else and we never touched asphalt we were driving 60 miles an hour down dirt roads and I think we saw outside of the airport all together maybe 30 other human beings yes maybe is a very unpopulated country. I think it's the second Most sparsely populated country in the world. I think so. Am I right? How many hundreds of thousands of acres were we on at this hunting? So we had so it

The the concession that our guys had was like 50,000 acres But then they had permission and all these other areas beside it So, you know when you wouldn't like they would walk you through a cattle gate or something and you were on somebody else's area Then the one next was 50,000 acres and there's another one that was 75 and 120. I don't know infinity. Yeah I am I when my wife texted me and said take some photos of the animals I realized that she didn't understand what this thing was. It wasn't like we're in a zoo. Well, people think a lot of times with African, that you're just hunting in big cages for animals.

No, that was not it. No, so anyway, great lodge. We would wake up at six every morning, stand out, have our coffee and watch that sunrise. I've never seen a sunrise that beautiful. So I spent a lot of time out in Wyoming. Big shout out to Wyoming Catholic College in Lander Yeah, but it reminds me of Wyoming except it's bigger somehow and maybe that's just a feeling thing

But you would because you can see the Sun all day. There's like three trees Right, but they're all at low canopy, right? Yeah, and you watch it rise and you see it go And we were out there in winter too. So it's cold in the mornings. It was freezing cold You see it go and we were out there in winter too, so it's cold in the mornings It was freezing cold, but no that sunrise was so beautiful Yeah, just and I was sad when I would try to take photos of it for my wife because he just couldn't capture it There were so many I can't remember Mario. It was our our guy like our tracker. Yeah tracker Skinner. He was awesome He said that were you with me when he said that I was I with the boy who's remind me He said don't don't take a picture. It will never be the same. Yeah, he did say that and he was exactly right

Yeah, yes, we would have our coffee and then we'd get in the back of a land rover. Yeah Land Cruiser and so we're sitting in the back on these chairs with our gun and binoculars chairs with a gun and binoculars. What was funny is when I pulled out my binoculars, I've got my binoculars. I had a pair like this big, like the kind of like, they told us what to bring. So like Boy Scout binoculars, John Henry's doing this. Can I please borrow yours?

But even with my big boy serious binoculars, I remember it was kind of embarrassing cause we would be up there scour as if we could do anything as we had any idea what was going on. And then Mario was the five foot three little Namibian guy behind us would go and point and be like two miles away. Heard the wildebeest. Yeah. And then you would get off and you would go bushwhacking for two miles. He was amazing. Yeah, he was. I don't think I was aware of just how much exercise it would be right because it's not like oh there's one kill it

It was like I think there's something up there and then we would hike for a few hours right and I'm not exaggerating when I say many of the bushes had Thorns the size of toothpicks right like if you snap one off you would mistake it for a tooth and bush is An understating word right there were trees. I mean they were big big tall tree I mean they were taller than our truck. And they would just say, heads up. And you would look up and you would just see swinging towards you a branch.

Yeah, I got a few. Covered and finger sized, yeah. But they say, like one of the, you told me this, right? That there's three main areas in Africa. You've got the jungle, the desert, and the savanna. Right. And what makes the savanna so great to hunt on is because of the low canopy you can see for miles

The trees aren't so tall that the animals can hide in them, right? But you also have to you can creep through the Savannah. Yeah, it's harder for them to hide I mean you we would not see animals for long stretches of time and then all of a sudden you'd be like, oh my goodness There's a herd of 30 of whatevers right over there And then they would take, it's amazing how quickly they disappeared. I mean, I think about that all the time in the Whitetail Woods, but yeah. I don't know if I ever told you this,

but Sorrell, so our professional hunter, the guy who is, there's a guy who just not, you know this, but for Neil, for anybody listening, right? There's a guy whose job it is, he works, he's licensed by the Namibian government to be a professional hunter, and he's required to be with you So he says, you know, you can shoot this one. You can't shoot that one, which is why we had situations Yes, you were stuff on that rock over those rocks looking at a herd of wildebeest for two hours

Yeah, and then at the end there was no cows there were bulls, but they weren't big bulls Oh, I see. Yeah, so he said no bulls no good bulls And we had to back out frustrating. Because you would see these animals, every one of them looks like the most beautiful majestic thing you've ever seen in your life. Yeah. But then they look at them through binoculars and they say no he's not old enough. He also told me that you were the loudest walker. Me? You ever heard. He said Matt is so loud he does not understand how to walk. Sorrel said this? Yeah. That's funny. I thought I was doing pretty good. No, he said you were the worst.

I'm not exaggerating. Top 10? No, no, no. The worst. Yeah. The food was incredible. It was all stuff that we shot. I mean, it was all the food was all things that we killed out there.

So now one thing they helped me understand was trophy hunting and why it's a great idea because I got to be honest as someone who's not a hunter, when I would see people post with pictures that they'd killed, I just thought, just seems not, not mean because I understand we kill animals and eat them, but just especially the more kind of, uh, rare animals that just seemed awful. So tell us why it's not immoral. So first off, I really hope Louie, the guy who runs that whole operation takes you up on the offer because he's gonna be here for Safari Club International Convention

We could have him on because I said him What do you say to people who say like you shouldn't be trophy hunting right these people have no understanding of Africa So and hunting what I thought was right now I'll start with this and then it'll sort of zoom down to some of the other stuff. We'll talk about rhinos, right? rhinoceros And I'll start with this and then it'll sort of zoom down to some of the other stuff. We'll talk about rhinos, right? Right. Endangered rhinos, right? Right. And you hear all these save the rhino things and all of this. And Louie was saying over and over again, they should let us farm rhinos. So I have to farm them. Right. And well, the, the horn is what he talked about

too. Right. So if you, first of all, Neil, how does this sound to you? Like we should be able to trade rhino horn. Doesn't that sound like an awful thing to say? Just on the face of it? Here's why it's not. Right, so, okay, so he drew a correlation between Botswana, right nearby, and Namibia. And he said in Botswana, for years they had outlawed hunting.

There was no hunting in Botswana. And he said what happened in Botswana is the game population was totally depleted Right all these animals were dead or were gone they were moving further down from vulnerable to threatened to endangered in these areas over there and There was just this decimation of just all the fauna in that area and he said it's because those animals Don't have a price associated with it and we can talk all day about fuzzy feely stuff about how it makes us sad when we see a rhino or a giraffe or an elephant or any of the

Charismatic megafauna right that we grew up watching cartoons of we see those die sure But the reality is that we're sitting here in an air-conditioned office Right with electrical lighting and a stomach full of food talking about how it hurts our feelings when these animals die Whereas the locals the people who live there on the ground in Botswana or Namibia or Tanzania or Mozambique, whatever it is They need to survive until tomorrow And if the things around them aren't helping them do that if there's no value associated with those animals outside of the caloric Calories I can get from eating it then they're going to kill and eat the animals. Right, or if they're preying on the cows

and the livestock that they do have, or taking up their resources and they're a pest, then they kill them. So you're sitting over, you're hanging out in Zimbabwe right now and you've got a little farm, and a few kids to feed and everything, and surrounding your farm are a whole bunch of spring buck and Jim's buck and leopards, right?

And you grow some food, you raise some animals, and the only thing that those spring buck and Jim's buck and leopards represent if you're not hunting are things that are gonna eat my goats, things that are gonna graze on the grass where my cows are grazing, things that are gonna get into my vegetable garden. So I wanna get rid of them because they're a nuisance,

but also they're made of meat, they taste delicious, I'm gonna shoot those things, and I'm gonna take what I can from them because they're a nuisance, but also they're made of meat, they taste delicious, I'm gonna shoot those things, and I'm gonna take what I can from them because they're worth nothing other than they look nice in a picture when some tourist drives by or something. Whereas trophy hunting, and I do wanna call it trophy hunting, I wanna double down on the term trophy hunting because while people ate every scrap,

including the organs of the animals that we killed, we did not. The only thing that legally we can do is take home hides and horns, right? We can take home the heads, we can take down the horns and put them on our walls. So we are hunting for a trophy, even though everything's being used by the locals.

But when you have trophy hunting in an area, all of a sudden that guy who's looking at the Jim's Buck, Spring Buck, and Leopards as dangerous and also edible right now He's saying oh Those are each worth a dollar amount because how it works in Namibia and a lot of these other countries is you and I show Up we shoot some animals we get to take pictures we get to take animals home The locals get every scrap of the meat and they also get money. They're paid

For the sake of these animals because those animals are worth a dollar amount and because they're worth a dollar amount they're protected and they increase in population right and what I was gonna say about rhino horns earlier is I didn't realize this rhino horns grow back right so if you allow people to trade rhino horns it's like you've got a golden goose you take really good care of that goose yeah he said two hundred fifty thousand dollars a horn is what you can get for a rhino horn in China right now. And what you have, and we were talking about this specifically because they have poachers. Mario, our skinner, our tracker on the car, said that he has had multiple times on safari

with guys like me and you riding around with him where he said, put your guns on the top of the car. And they drove up fast on people who were poaching on the property to have them arrested or have them thrown out. So it's like once you allow trophy hunting, you don't just have the government who's generally inefficient at most of these sorts of things. You have people who are trying to make money off the land that they have who are working with the government to... Well, it's just taking human nature into account too, right? Because unfortunately, humans are selfish and humans are going to things that are gonna benefit them right and

If I'm a poor guy living over in Africa who doesn't know how to get food on the table But there's rhinos out there that the only reason they're protected is because they look pretty and make like white college girls in the United States feel good when nobody's allowed to shoot them of course. I'm gonna go kill that thing. I'm gonna take the horn whereas If I'm managing a property that has these rhinos on it, there were something to me and they're worth, they're worth being protected. I think you said something like the population of elephants in Namibia went up 10 times since they started to allow trophy hunting,

which sounds so counterintuitive, but it's for all the reasons you just mentioned. Well, and it's so well managed, which to the point of frustration, like I said, we would see these beautiful majestic animals and I would say, come on, like I let me kill it. Let me kill that. It's great. It looks beautiful. I would love, I want that so badly, right? I want that beautiful head above my fireplace or whatever. And they would say, no, he's too small. Four inches foot inches too small. Because they have all of these that they're required by the Namibian

government. They have all these these that they're required by the Namibian government. They have all these standards that they have to, they have to abide by. And they won't let you export those heads unless they are a certain length, they have to be male, it has to be a certain age. It was really cool. Yeah, it was a great time.

I hope he comes on, you should get him on. Yeah, if he wants to, I mean, I extended the invitation. He's a really wonderful guy, I thought. We had a great time. Well, and we the invitation. He's a really wonderful guy. I thought we had a great time Well, and we were just pampered it really was well I mean it was so it was you and me hunting and then it was two other fellas hunting But we came back for lunch that first day at one and we had nothing and what are they? No, no, it was worse than other than I'd missed a shot that day, right?

I had I had gotten I'd whiffed a shot on a red heart of beast and then they show up With a dragon Dragon with multiple animals and every day that was it It became a joke it did become a joke Yeah Like like we'd be sitting out on the deck with nothing just like having a smoke and we joke about them driving with a dragon Attached to by a chain you guys know dragons were real? I had no idea. Like you bloody. They were great guys.

It was a lot of fun to have them out there. But we ended up catching up. We did all right by the end. It was real fun. Yeah, and it was really neat to see the contrast because there's almost like, where we were staying was a compound. Like the house we stayed in had a big fence around it

and they were self-sufficient, they grew their own food, they had greenhouses and all of that. But then there's almost a little village of locals that was attached to it. Yeah. And they did all the work there. And somebody killed something large one time that brought it in, not one of us, but one of our friends. And the village, these people just descend on it. All these little kids are running around in Spider-Man pajamas and everything and they're cutting off pieces of hand out flowing right by their feet.

It stinks to high heaven. And there's a bunch of these beautiful little kids. And you and I looked at each other and said, these kids are going to grow up way more well-rounded than kids with iPhones. The kids who are sitting inside staring at their laptops. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I was really, I was really interested with that the last day if you remember that last morning

Did you go bird hunting with me the last one? No, I went bird hunting the night the day before on my own Yeah, I went bird hunting me Mario And we just were driving around and we get out and walk and flush some quail because bird hunting is not a thing over there they don't do wing shooting in Namibia and The only food these guys eat the only meat they get the only protein they get is what's hunted And so Mario was up there saying Franklin shoot the Franklin shoot the right He's like telling me please go shoot this because I want this and we don't shoot these because they're worth money But you can shoot it and then give it to me and give it to these kids and whatever and then we get back

He's dividing up the birds in order of you know how good they are And he's saying I'm going to take this and this is for this family and These are these children we don't really eat doves here So we give them to the children and they will eat them They'll make something out of the breast meat and it was just really neat. What was that bird? They said tasted terrible the oh the guinea fowl the guinea fowl He said the joke about guinea fowl is you kill it Defeather it boil it with a rock on top of it right and then after an hour of boiling it you throw the

Guinea bird away, and you eat the rock but they were everywhere they would run in front of the car forever yeah and all that stuff we can keep talking about that but I wanted to ask some questions because we got a bunch from our local supporters yeah do you want to tell it to say about the one negative comment that came up in our last video? No, I don't. No.

All right. I will say this. So I'm not, I'm not reading comments. There is a ton of questions. I did. I did that. I did the one last February or March or something. Oh, and I came up here for, for pints and uh, I, I felt either the episode came out and

then I started reading the comments and you know You get 90 good comments and you get but you get a couple of bad ones And those are the ones that you remember and I realized how emasculine it was For me to be like reading and worrying and all that I felt like a like an eighth grade girl Obsessed with her Instagram page and what people were were liking and what they weren't No, okay fine. I'll do that one only because I told a group of 14 year olds that I teach yeah do it I mean you're exactly right and I made a decision a couple of months ago to stop reading YouTube comments entirely and you lose something from that because I know people

Want you to interact with them and they like it if you see their comment, but I don't care I'd so people who support me on locals. I care about these people. Like these are amazing human beings. They support us financially and they can only comment because they're giving us 10 bucks a month or something. Right. People don't pay 10 bucks a month to then like troll you. You know what I mean? So even if they're critical, they, they offer it like a friend would. Well, that's what I was going to say. I'm not talking about criticism. I'm not talking about, Hey, I disagree with you on this. Yeah, yeah. Or, hey, that was an interesting point,

but aren't you forgetting about this? It's like why are your eyebrows weird? Right. Yes, like the one that I repeated when somebody wrote, Spam looks like he's one ham sandwich away from a heart attack. And my wife still brings that up. It's so specific.

Like, that one hurt. All right. And for the record, I've had a lot of ham sandwiches since then. So you were wrong. No heart attacks in your face. Do we have the can we have a break so I can get a coffee? Or is it not there? Or else you can just talk to him. You chat with him while I make a coffee or else go to break.

Will you get me a coffee? Yeah. I mean, if we go to break, I'll get a coffee. Do you have the break thing there? Yeah. Yeah. two minutes. Or you just, it might be better if he asks, you ask him questions and you talk, because you're much more interesting than two minute break. I'll go make coffee.

All right, sounds good. Two coffees, two coffees. I'm gonna get it right here. Oh, thank you. Okay. All right, Neil, what we got? Those of you who can't, because there's not a camera on Neil,

Neil is wearing one of the best button-up shirts I've ever seen in my life today Will you good come on over? It's pretty sweet rocking socks and sandals and living the dream right now, so it is a sure orderly Sure, I got in Amarillo, Texas when I was visiting my now fiance. Okay, so she's working on a movie Which is actually I think gonna be in festivals soon called What Remains. Okay. We saw this shirt in a store that I don't remember the name of and she's like I'm buying you. I would wear the heck out of that shirt.

I do but it gets a lot of mileage. I really I really like that thing. I so when I went to Africa I packed one backpack carry-on for a two week trip over to Africa and when I came here for the cigar opening and to do this I came with my wife and we packed a gigantic devil bag carry-on that we had to wait to come out of it and in that and I'm not just doing the cliche like women pack a lot but that's true right she does tend to do it more, and I'm not just doing the cliche like, women pack a lot. But that's true, right? She does tend to do it more, but I'm still not sure how I managed to make

this much stuff. When I literally, I've got this shirt, which I wore yesterday, it still smells like cigars. I'm gonna wear it tomorrow. I brought one mass shirt. I brought one pair of jeans, one pair of boots, and a pair of khaki pants. And somehow, we still managed to fill up a duffel bag

for this trip. So, pretty good. That's all I used to pack, I used to just do my carry-on backpack. Yeah, I just hate, especially if you can do laundry, even if you just have a sink that you can wash socks and underwear in. I've never done that, but.

You've never done like the underwear and sink? Not in the sink. When I was in college, and this is not something that I'm proud of, I think in my entire life, counting hunting clothes because I do all my Own hunting clothes because you have to wash them in special. Yeah, I want you with some scent free stuff I do I Think I did two loads of laundry the entire time that I was in college in an actual like washing machine now to be fair

I'm an only child. I'm spoiled But I went home my mom would do my laundry sometimes my now wife would do my laundry sometimes at school But most of the time my laundry consisted of underwear and socks in the kitchen sink in my dorm room. Yeah So that's pretty sweet cool. How's the coffee coming Matt? 20 seconds 20 seconds. Yeah, we'll give you some more shirt facts or something. Sure facts Well what I was thinking of when you were talking about women pack a lot is I remember I used to always be like, why do people need such big wardrobes? Right. But then, I don't know, dating Shayla and then like one time I, you know, looked in her closet and I was like,

there's so many clothes here and I was like, I like that because it's like, you know, adorning a beautiful thing. It's good to like have. That's really good. I just felt like something in my heart that was like, this is like good. Cause before it just been like this, like what is all this for? I like wear like, I don't have that many shirts. I just rotate. I wear a suit every day, usually to school.

I wear a suit and a bow tie. And I have, my wife and I share a closet and it is more mine than it is hers in terms of stuff. And that's always bothered me. Cause I think that there's some vanity tied up in that and all of that. So I'm trying to because I think that there's some vanity tied up in that and all of that so I'm trying to I'm trying to get away from that. I was a weird kid at one point in I think in middle school I was like I was watching Arthur and they were the same thing because they're cartoons and I was like

That's how you get a personality you were the same like that logic, so that never happened, but It's a good idea. I do wear I like that logic. So that never happened, but I thought about it. It's a good idea. I do wear, I have like three pairs of jeans that is all that I wear when I'm not at work though, which is nice. I choose my pants based on which one has a belt in them.

On the floor. Already in it? Yeah, that's really how I. From my days at the firehouse, when I take off my pants in the evening, I pull my boots through, so I just have to step into my boots and then just pull them up, leave the belt in, leave them around the boots.

Did you see this newspaper we started? Oh, is that for Chesterton? No, this is for Pines. I want to give a little shout out here. So we have started a newspaper here at Pines with Aquinas. It's called The Jill. And the reason it's called The Jill is it is a unit of liquid measure equal to a quarter of a pint. And this comes out quarterly and it's getting bigger and bigger. We're going to have it on newspaper paper next time we have like Catholic

comment comics, which I'll show you. It's really cool. Poetry, Catholic crossword puzzle. Can I write an article for it? Yes, you absolutely. Yes, I would love to write an article for it. But so these go for free to write an article for it. So these go for free to folks who become local supporters.

So if you go to matfrad.locals.com and become an annual supporter, then you can put in your address in the pinned article at the top of Locals and you'll get the next Jill for free and we pay for shipping as well. Even if you live anywhere in the world and we'll pay for shipping, just go to mattfratt.locals.com. You get a bunch of free things in return. We have audio books that come out every month. We have father Gregory pine who hosts spiritual direction every month, just for our locals. We do morning podcasts. We have a guest article from John Henry span and an upcoming Jill, but yeah,

I I'm really proud of it. I don't like that paper. That was the first one that came out, but it'll be on newspaper paper. Can we? Trent Horn's got an article on the new one coming out and it's not available anywhere online. We're not doing a PDF of it anywhere. Can I hijack everything you're saying right now?

Yes. All right. So Neil, are you on me? Can you zoom in on that camera? Can you zoom in on this picture? I can't zoom in, can you? Can you zoom in on that camera? Can you zoom in on this picture? I can't zoom in, can you? Can you zoom in? I can just put it really close to this camera.

That works better. Is that good? Oh, that looks great. Is that so? So blurry. Can I see Matt? All right, so this is important because you said to me on this show, or no, offline, you said to me when we were texting that you were about to get rid of your beard.

I do want to talk about that. I feel like people need to know that And you said you were getting rid of your beard because your wife didn't like kissing you right because of your mustache, right? so you said that your options were to go Amish and just like shave the mustache or to get rid of the whole thing and I think that I want to put you on the spot and I think you need to like I Don't know if there's a poll. I don't know if there's a poll. I don't know if there's a comment section, something, but I think the people deserve a voice, Matt.

Am I kissing any of these people? Should I be? I hope not. No, but it's, I am all about the beard. I think you look like Zara Nicholas II. If you're listening right now, pull up Zara Nicholas II very put together got a great great mustache going on great beard combo and Well credit to my wife at no point. She said like you need to shave the beard It's just that when we kiss she has a conniption fit because she has very sensitive skin

So it's always been this like what do I want? because she has very sensitive skin. So it's always been this like, what do I want? Do I want beautiful intimacy within marriage? Kissing means a lot to her. Sure. Or do I not? What do I want to be in so you can think I look cool? And honestly, I'm not sure.

I love that. Thanks, brother. I'm not sure. So I told you what, because my wife didn't love the beard, right? I grew this beard. The last time I grew a beard wife didn't love the beard, right, I grew this beard. The last time I grew a beard, right, through this beard, right, the beard has continued from this point.

I've grown a beard a few times in the past, but the most recent time I grew a beard and decided I wasn't gonna shave it was COVID, right? And I know because I've got a picture of me on a turkey hunt that I was on during COVID where I have the beginnings of this beard. And my wife said to me something along the lines of, you know, I just, I miss your face.

I wanna see your face and you're handsome and you don't look as much like the guy that I married. And I love my wife and I'm a sucker for what my wife says. Like I am not some big throw my weight around kind of guy. My wife is, she is meek and humble and beautiful, but you know she she says hey I want you to jump and I say okay, babe. How high you know that kind of thing But I did say

babe Light of my life mother of my children right the one woman who I'm sacramentally bound to I'm called a die to myself for The beard's not for you the beards for the boys for the beards not for you the beards for the boys Matt thinks my beard looks cool a bunch of 16 year old high school boys think my beard looks cool so I got out the beard yes yes it is in the chat really yeah you can you want me to just hold this up to me the rest of the time That I'm talking to everybody. I just pinned the 11 year old straw poll to the top. Thanks for doing that Neil Yeah, I'll pull it up now I'll open it if I can here we go

All right, should I shave my beard by a guest 49 seconds ago? Yes. Shave it so I can kiss my wife. No, keep it so I can be successful in life. You're really tipping the scales there, Neil. But let's see. I'll just refresh. So I guess I have to be back. Am I gay? Why is there a gay test on this? I've seen the gay test on YouTube all the time, and I'm glad you see it because I was worried that it was somehow driven by my search history. All right. Well, we'll skip the gay test.

No, so I just click results. All right. So we've already had people know keep it is the majority, but people people say yeah, we get 24 votes now 26 votes 28 votes 2030 votes, I wish we know I'm gonna keep saying this Wish we could break it down by male and female because I'm actually what are you put this up on screen Neil while we're just chatting Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's live. It's alive. So can you see that now? So is it in the middle of the two of us chatting? No, it's you guys are smaller. Okay, that's kind of cool. Yes, no, I can give it. No, that's good. You got to be shocked that it's so even though, aren't you? That's why I'm interested in male and female. Well, because I've talked to a lot of like women whose husbands have beards and some will say yeah I love the beard a lot of it but I've talked to a lot of them who said something similar right like and

it's never my husband looks horrible with a beard it's just I miss your face yeah yeah my wife will actually say like sometimes I look at you and I don't recognize you right yeah yeah cuz I I never met I didn't meet you with a beard yeah so yeah I like be. I'm on team beard. All right, I wanna throw something out. Is Ben Shapiro still growing a beard? I noticed a couple of weeks ago, I went online, he was like growing some stubble.

Is my beard better than Matt Walsh's beard thing? I saw like a little short that he had posted. And he just had like a barely like stubble thing happening. But that's gonna be hard if you're doing a daily show. Right. To have everybody see the ugly stage. I like it. I'm a big, look at this is so many votes coming in. Oh, I don't want to want to talk about

about beards. All right. We were talking about this. We might've been talking about this this morning when we were getting a coffee. There is, I talk, I talk a lot about masculinity, right? I've got a man, like a authentic masculinity series of talks that I'm doing in a church coming up in a, in a couple of months. And I just talk and think about that a lot. And when a lot of times when I do it, I feel like my brand or whatever you want to call it, right?

I wear a lot of flannel and I have a beard and I talk about hunting and guns. I drive a pickup truck and all these things that are sort of traditionally masculine. And I feel like there's confusion all the time I'm constantly saying this to 16 year old boys who I work with not just ones on the street, but and the idea that masculinity is tied to the things that you wear and the things that you own and consumerism thing is right like buying the truck or buying those guns or having a sticker that just says I'm a badass

or whatever that means. You've all seen those. Whatever the sticker means, what it really means is I'm really cool and manly on the back of your car. I really like a lot of those things. I don't have a stupid sticker on my car. But none of that actually has anything to do with my masculinity.

I think it's only coincidental. And in fact, I think that the reason I do a lot of those things is because when I was a younger man, desperately trying to figure out what it meant to be a man, I bought into those lies. And so I started to try to frame myself around these things. And I really do like those things. I enjoy hunting, I like guns.

I really like having a pickup truck. But I think a lot of those are holdovers from a desperate attempt to be a man when I was hunting. I like guns. I really like having a pickup truck. Yeah. But I think a lot of those are holdovers from a desperate attempt to be a man when I was younger. That is such a beautiful, vulnerable thing to say. I love it. I also love what you're saying too. Like it's not that it's a charade. It may have been in the beginning, but then you kind of love those things. I think I said to you earlier that I've mentioned it a few times, like several years ago when I first read Dostoevsky,

it was so that I could be interesting. Like I wanted to be the kind of person who would actually enjoy dosavsky And that was really the primary reason I did it was pride. I wanted to say to be oh, yes I'd like to read some Russian classics But then I actually fell in love with dosavsky and so it's not like it's a charade now We were talking about that last night on the way to the taco place, right about how? right now. We were talking about that last night on the way to the taco place, right? About how Sin, right? Pride and vanity and all of these things are part of human nature and we can we can almost use it in our favor In a way, right? I want to like poetry. I want to be the kind of guy who reads poetry

Yeah, and but I don't really I would much rather watch YouTube I would much rather, you know, I don't know, go outside and shoot skeet in the backyard or go do, there's a lot of things I would rather do than sit down and read, you know, Wordsworth or something. But I've started to do it. And it's similar to my relationship with coffee, right? I stopped drinking soda because I was one ham sandwich

away from a heart attack. Apparently. And I started to drink coffee for utility. I didn't really like coffee. I just started drinking it because I was one ham sandwich away from a heart attack. Apparently. And I started to drink coffee for utility. I didn't really like coffee. I just started drinking it because I wanted to, I needed to be awake and I needed to function in the morning and that little caffeine boost helped. And that has been, I don't know, four months, five months.

And over the past four or five months, I've gotten to where I really enjoy coffee and I'm learning, well actually I like my coffee with a little bit of cream or, Oh, I like the latte better or maybe a little bit of this or a little bit of that. And this roast is better. And now I'm getting into the intricacies of coffee. And I'm enjoying getting into those things. Whereas six months ago, I was like, yeah, you know,

so you had to detach from something less healthy, but it wasn't good for you ultimately in order to start to enjoy this thing that you don't actually like. And likewise, you have to actually make a decision, maybe to withdraw from YouTube or something to then read a book. It's not like the two can co-exist all the time. Well, you walked up to me in the airport. The first time I saw you is in the Atlanta airport. And I said, I am Ozymandias, King of Kings.

Behold my works, ye mighty in despair, right? I was like, I'm so proud because I just sit down, I read this poem like four times and I really got into it and I enjoyed it and it was an awkward thing for me to yell to you across the terminal. But I've gotten to where I'm really starting to enjoy some of these things, right? And it's also speaking of masculinity,

I think it's so ridiculous that we view things like poetry as not being masculine, as if there were anything immasculine. Right. Right. Because there's something feminine, but feminine, right, in a very good way, right? Because I want to make it clear, like, girls should read poetry, too. But we act as if there's something immasculine about reading Shakespeare Well, I said to you last night. I think the most masculine man I've ever met is Ryan Foley. Mm-hmm and Yeah, I met for the first time. Yeah, doesn't wear flannel. Don't ever pick up truck

There's a nice car, you know likes to read and the first words out of his mouth when I met him was Matt We'll never make money with a cigar bar Find out tonight seven o'clock grand opening. Do you mind passing me that newspaper? Because I want to. Do you want to hold the picture of you on the camera? No. But even if you don't want me to do this, I'm going to.

There's a poem I put in here and I love it. It's not mine. I wouldn't ever. Is it an original? Never do that to you. No, it's by Edgar. No, I mean, is it like a is it a contemporary poem? This is why I recently write it.

No, it's not. It sounds like it may have been written a hundred years ago or so, but I actually don't know Edgar, Albert, Albert Guest. I don't know how old he is. I don't know. Feel free to look it up. Edgar. I could look it up, but Edgar, Albert Guest. All right. Listen to this poem.

Tell me if you really like it. What I love about this poem is it's in no way pretentious and if people like are open to liking poetry. I think they'd like this one. Cool. Thank you. He says the happiest nights I ever know are those when I have no place to go and the missus says when the day is through tonight. We haven't a thing to do. Oh the joy of it and the peace untold,

of sitting round in my slippers old, with my pipe and book in my easy chair, knowing I needn't go anywhere. Needn't hurry my evening meal, nor force the smiles that I do not feel, but can grab a book from a nearby shelf and drop all sham and be myself. Oh, the charm of it and the comfort rare, nothing on earth with it can compare. And I'm sorry for him who doesn't know the charm of it and the comfort rare nothing on earth with it can compare and I'm sorry for him who Doesn't know the joy of having no place to go Yeah, it reminds me of I had a friend in college who died tragically actually a friend of mine Kevin Kevin Senate and He used to say that what he wanted to do when he grew up was to be a man of leisure Right and it sounds lazy right, but he said but he would drive

You would get him talking right and have a couple of beers and be sitting around talking about what that means Yeah, you start talking about all the great thinkers ever right yeah the Greeks and you know These guys who what they did is they were there a minimum leisure They sat around they had conversations, and they they read things and they thought about things and they talked about that's right That's what I want and that's what we that's what we, that's what we should strive for, right? We should work for the sake of living, not live for the sake of working. Our weekends don't exist to recharge us to go back into the office on Mondays. Exactly. We go to the office on Mondays so that we can have that time.

That's actually important. That's exactly right. And even with me, you know, I'm, I'm involved in this incredible school and I do, I work with some apostolates and ministries. I do a lot of, I do a lot of work and that's good. They're all good things. I really love it. I love my job. I love the things that I do that are work, but it's not my vocation. It's not my primary vocation, which is my wife and my children. And that's really hard to Realize I just I was reading a book on the airplane called leaving boyhood behind. I forget who wrote it, but Anthony Esselstyn who I love Anthony Esselstyn He he read a book. He wrote a book not too long ago called defending boyhood

it was like defending boyhood followed by leaving boyhood behind and In the book they were talking about how Disordered so many of our boys understanding is in regards to our modern, and I'm not knocking capitalism, I'm not knocking Western civilization, but sort of a Protestant work ethic sort of culture, and how that distorts us to where

when you're really good at your job, we tend to retreat from that in a way that makes us less of a man than working. It's great to be good at your job, but if you're retreating into your job, what you're doing is to escape from your life, the hero's journey part without the important part, which is coming back home at the end of the journey. And every day when you go out to work, you're called to the hero's journey, right? You're just like Odysseus on a much smaller scale of you're going to go out and you're going to self-sacrifice and you're going to do something for the sake of coming back home.

If you're doing it for the sake of the journey itself, Bilbo and Frodo. Yes, exactly. When conquered came back. And the reason that Lord of the Rings is so beautiful is they come back home. If it's just a continuing endless series of adventures that never is for a purpose and never arrives back at what's most important, then the beauty's gone. Yeah, that's really great. Um, I don't know if you're open to this, but I think you're an excellent presenter, especially to boys like high school boys and college boys. Do you give talks more and more? I've given some. Yeah. Could we, okay. So you feel free to say no, but could we put your email? That might be way too much in the description.

If people want to have you come and speak to them. Can we do it after so I don't put my personal email in there? I need to pull up like my, hey, you want me to come talk email? Okay. But I can do that. You're going to create one? I don't have that. Well, no, I've got one, but I don't have it off.

Okay. We'll put that below. And if people want to reach out to you to come and give a talk, because yeah, I've seen you speak to young men and you do a great job. Well, I really like it. I mean, I think, you know,'s that all that controversy right now with Jordan Peterson and you know him appealing to these these young men who really have like our young men are so left behind and told that their masculinity is dangerous and that it's bad and that they're aggressive and all of these things.

Which by the way are that's true like you are your masculinity does make you aggressive and dangerous in a really good way and it needs to be civilized and move forward. I talked about this last time on the show. Well, what's interesting about Peterson is people will attack him for being that way. But then when he cries on camera for being vulnerable, they're making fun of him for acting the way they say men should act. Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking about this, too, because a lot of people, well, ever since I made that comment about there being no funny female stand up

comics in my estimation, um, people, well, there was a few people who did podcasts saying how all of this cigar smoking and growing beards and things is, uh, just this overcompensating. And I'd love your thoughts on it, but here's mine. And that is a lot of people are able to turn their side hustle into a full-time thing now. You know, maybe not a lot, but a significant number who never could have before can, myself included. The pints was this thing I did on the side while I had a full-time job and then it took off and I'm grateful to God for it. I don't have a boss now. When I worked

at Catholic Answers, they wouldn't have let me light up in their studio. They wouldn't have let me talk about hunting in their studio. And fair enough, good for them. I mean, they, they're trying to do what they're trying to do. Now I don't have a boss. I can do whatever I want really, which is great. Um, and so now I can have a smoke on stage if I want, and I can talk about things that my employer may not have wished me to talk about. So I don't think it's a matter of, I mean, it might be the case that people are trying to, uh, attach themselves to these sort of, uh, uh, perhaps shallow forms of masculinity,

but it also just might be the case that men happen to like certain things. And now I'm more free to talk about what you call shallow forms of masculinity. I think a lot of those are perfectly healthy and good attributes of masculinity that are not necessary. Right? So there's a lot of things that make you a man, and then there's lots of things that you can enjoy that men tend to enjoy, but aren't requirements for being a man. And you hear that a lot. You hear people talk about you're overcompensating or whatever because you're doing all of these

things when you're allowed to enjoy masculine things, and you're also not required to be bound by the politically correct police on all of your thoughts and opinions. So Laura Horn sent me something that was Laura Horn is Trent's wife. Oh, that's right. Yeah. She's so cool. I forget what she said, but I just love this. Is this part of the fallout of the women aren't funny comment?

Yeah, she was just terrific and just. But I watched it and you didn't say women aren't funny comment. Yeah, she was just terrific and just. But I watched it and you didn't say women weren't funny. No, no. I I think that I think that women comedians tend to I think that women tend to find women comedians funnier typically. Right. Because I think that's an experiential thing and I think that makes sense. If you got it, I'm literally just stalling for time She's saying so many things I can't read because they're so inappropriate. That's how much I love her

Yeah, and you know it's what was actually interesting is this the psychologist who used to be a stand-up comic this female Oh Oh, in psychology today. She wrote an article defending me. Someone shared it with me. I thought, oh gosh, here we go. But one of the things she pointed out was it's not just that, generally speaking, men, I think, can command a room better. And I'll tell you who's a great exception to that is the new president, prime minister of Italy.

Oh my goodness, yeah, that was wild. She's a powerhouse. It was amazing. But what she also said was, and you could even look at this from a sort of secular point of view and And not bring God or nature into it and just say well We're raised in such a way that when a woman is assertive were confused by it, right? So you could even just demonize society if you want and still agree with me anyway, but what did she say here? I Probably shouldn't have said that it was her. I'm trying to find something that I can read this, but her bait.

One of her points was like, you know, because she knocked these men. Here we go. She is so this is what she said about a particular commenter on on on me. She is so insulting to men while claiming she's so insulted by one thing you asked with an open-ended question and made an argument for her. They can't attach to women or men and ape the trappings of masculinity was a low blow. Also, what are you supposed to do? Knit on your show.

Also, if you didn't do these things, they'd claim you are you all are feminine. She's so rude. Yeah, I just love that. I just love the point. It's like, oh, yeah, you're right. You know, cigars. I'm so sorry. Let's knit. She's so rude. Yeah, I just love that. I just love the point is like, oh, yeah, you're right. You know, cigars. I'm so sorry. Let's knit. Let's crochet. Would that be better or will we be aping women at that point? It's. No, that's interesting. But it goes so it's because it's the reverse of what the

message was when I was growing up. And you said something yesterday, I think tying this into the whole transgender thing. Right. When I was a kid and this would have been in the 90s, right? The whole message was girls can play with Legos Yeah, girls can like fishing right and that's because they can yeah and that was right I thought I actually as I got older thought that they took it a little too far with some of that stuff And I was thinking oh, no, maybe they're trying to push girls into things that they don't take exactly enjoy But now it's like oh you like Lego And I was thinking, Oh no, maybe they're trying to push girls into things that they don't exactly enjoy.

But now it's like, Oh, you like Lego? We should probably mutilate your body. You should have a double mastectomy when you turn 14 years old. Yeah, it's tragic. Yeah. So it's it takes a superficiality interests of men and women and just maximize it them and doesn't allow you to be a tomboy or to be a man who's interested in whatever things that are traditionally considered feminine.

Yeah, my uh, it's far more narrow minded. Like it's actually well, my daughter the other day, I have a, I have an eight year old daughter. I have two below her and then I have a 10 year old son and my son and I were big into we go hunting a lot. Right. And we've gotten to a point now, which is really, really cool where it used to be, he was four years old. I would take him hunting with me and it made everything ten times harder, and I enjoyed it less because Excuse me because I'm trying to be a good dad

I want to raise my son up and do these things but he's got to the stage now where I'm super excited about him Going with me. I can't wait to have him with me because he not only does he help he enjoys it He's good at it. We're having good conversations and all of these things while it's happening And so I started doing that with my daughter my eight-year-old daughter to see if she was interested because yeah hunting is traditionally male Right, but there are girl hunters and there are girls who get into it And it's a great excuse to spend time with the one of the most beautiful people I've ever met which is my my eight-year-old I love her to death and I took her out a few years ago turkey hunting and We sat in the blind we put out some turkey decoys

I made some calls we were there for maybe 20 minutes And then she starts talking in a normal tone of voice telling me that she's hungry and she wants to go inside And all of these things and so we did and that happened a few times right and so I sort of throw up my hands Is that all right? Well? She's not this is she's not really taking to this So we're looking at a rental property right now and for the first time in the past seven years, I'm not raising my own animals to eat, right? I'm not raising chickens this year

for the first time in seven years and that's bothering me, I don't like that. And so I've decided that I'm gonna become a duck hunter. All right, so I've been looking for land to hunt on, there's a lot of public land nearby, and I've been going out, I mean five mile round trip loops every day, pulling up a map saying, all right, I think that's probably a beaver pond

Let's go find it and my daughter asked to go with me, and I thought okay. Yeah sure I'm gonna take her and we're not gonna get anything done the girl Three times last week trounced over five miles through the woods like looking at poop on the ground like dad is this duck poop and looking at Helping me with all of these things. And I've seen her get really into it. And she said to me a few days ago, before we left to come up here, she said,

dad, I really wanna shoot a squirrel this year. Because that's the rule, right? You start with a squirrel, and then you get to go after a deer, you shoot a doe, and then we go after bucks, and then we sort of get, and it was the most heartwarming thing in the world, but I'm so bothered that she's grown up in a world where if she has a couple of tomboy tendencies,

like she just won a trap setting contest at the Trappers Convention I was talking about earlier, where if we weren't in this community that we're in, people are going to say, oh, you like things that are traditionally male. Therefore, are you sure? Are you sure that you're a female? We had a teacher come and visit our school the other day

who teaches kindergarten at a public school in Forsyth County, Georgia Which is pretty conservative north of Atlanta suburban area and she said in their teacher training They were learning about something called the gender unicorn They could teach to the fifth graders to help them understand that their sex and their gender weren't tied to each other God have mercy. Yeah, sorry for rambling. No, it's a good thing your children aren't being raised in a crappy school So I don't think she'll ever feel that pressure can I interview you can I see a question so your son Yeah, just enrolled in a boarding school St. Martin's Academy in Fort Scott, Kansas so and there's that there's st. Greg's

There's a couple of these pretty awesome from what I've heard yeah boarding schools when you first told me that you were gonna send Liam to a boarding school, I was like really taken aback by it. I was very much like, oh, why on earth? Why would you ever, ever send your son out of your home? That's what you do. You send your kid off to military school when there are serious behavioral issues,

when there's drugs involved. Why on earth would you do this? And it was only after, I had a long conversation with you, but I also had a long conversation with our mutual friend, Mike Verlander. And, um, sure. He did a much better job explaining incredible of everything with lots of pregnant pauses while he looked at me and made me feel like my question was the stupidest thing I ever had in a loving way. I love that. Um, and then another friend of ours who's sitting their son there next year, not St. Martin's but st. Greg's

Who's that and? and It really opened my I still don't have any Feel any desire to send my son there But I want to I would love to hear the why you made that decision to send your young son outside of your home and across The country to live the way that I didn't live until I was 18 years old Well first, let me kind of explain to people what Saint Martin's Academy and Saint Greg's is. I've had a couple of teachers from Saint Greg's on the show.

I'm listening. I'm going to go get a water. Do you? Oh, yeah. There's we have a water. I think it's just the Berkey. You might have to fill this cup up here. You want to fill it up? Yes. So I mean, it's here boarding school. I don't know what you think.

But I mean, like Saint Martin's,. I don't know what you think, but I mean, like St. Martin's, for example, has about 60 boys in total. Are you still listening or am I just talking to? Yeah. About 60 boys in total from ninth grade to senior. They live on a 3000 acre working farm. And there's no screens like there's one phone that the boys use communally Every Wednesday is a farm day So they learn to butcher animal classes on Wednesday. No classes at all. It's all farm work Yeah, they've got a couple of classrooms, but a lot of their studies are done outside in nature

The boys go fishing in the evenings a lot of their studies are done outside in nature. The boys go fishing in the evenings. There's Latin mass every morning. There's Eucharistic adoration a couple of times a week, but, uh, it's only obligatory say like once. Um, Oh, that sounds great, but why can't you just do that yourself? Okay. So, sorry. I don't mean to grill you. No, no, it's okay. Well, first of all, I just want to give some background so people kind of understand. We also sort of gave our son the option.

You know, it was like, you know, like Cameron's feeling kind of sick, right? She gets really sick in the winters. And so we said we're probably going to have to go south for a month or so. So we sat him down and said, like, you can you can homeschool with us down there. But I think you should give this a shot because I think you would absolutely love it. And he chose to go there and he's really enjoying it. Why did I send him there? Honestly, I think it's probably because I think this school can provide what I can't. Which is what?

Well, farming things, woodworking, also the company of boys, that sort of stuff. Also the company of boys, that sort of stuff. So I think you probably in a much better place to raise your son and to educate him in some pretty cool things in a way that I'm not because I wasn't raised. You're saying just skill wise and everything? Yeah. Well, I'll say this too, just for anybody. And the other thing I'll say, sorry, shut up. That's fine.

Yeah. Thanks. The other thing is, you know, like here, and this is kind of like the life of teenage boys, right? It's especially maybe they're homeschooled or even not. So if they're not homeschooled, they've got extracurricular activity maybe, and they're doing all these other things. Liam was homeschooled.

And so we get the homeschooling done. And then like him and his friends would like ride their bikes to Kroger and then like play Minecraft and then like play D&D. That's all really great. It's all fantastic. But there is a much more structured way of living where the boys wake up, I think it's five or six every single morning.

They work really hard. The boys are all working out together. They've got all these kinds of free weights and stuff. And he said to me, like, we go to bed and I just fall straight asleep because we're exhausted every night. So like, I think of like my childhood where it was like, I don't know,

like Metallica and trying to make girls like me and porn and things like that. Um, and I think he's got a much more beautiful life than we could provide for him here. But just so people, you know, whatever they think, I don't care. But I mean, if he came home and was like, I can't go back, I hate it. Like, okay. I'm like, then we'll figure something else out. So sure. No, that makes a lot of sense. And I want to say too, yeah. Cause the second I go, you said how I was raised, Ben, we'll figure something else out, sir. Sure, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I wanna say too, cause the second I go, you said how I was raised, and I wanted the same thing for my son,

cause I think I had a pretty similar childhood that you did. I grew up in fairly rural South Georgia, but I lived in a town, right? I had a sidewalk and went to a school 10 minutes away, and I walked to school and some of those things growing up, and it was a fairly normal small town existence growing up. I got in a lot of trouble. I think I went over that on a previous episode

and ended up moving, but my life was so tied up in just the cheap and the inauthentic 20th, 21st century nothingness of Western American culture, right? And I so desperately wanted my kids to not have that. But I didn't have that background. I mean, I didn't get into hunting and farming and all of that until my early 20s, when we sort of made this decision

that we need to live in a way that's better. I remember being so excited, because from the time I was 15 years old, I always wanted to be a father. I wanted to be a husband. And I was doing all sorts of destructive, making all sorts of destructive decisions that were gonna make it more difficult for me

to be a good father and a good husband, the scars of which are still, affect my ability to be the man that God is calling me and my wife and children need me to be. But I always wanted that, and I used to dream about the suburban, I wanted the cul-de-sac, I wanted the picket fence and dog

and a bunch of kids running around. And then I got it and it was just so unappealing. And I saw what my, and I'm not knocking, if you're living in a cul-de-sac right now, I'm not saying, oh yeah, your kids are doomed, right? Or anything like that. But I wanted something different for my kids. It was my amazing bride who was willing to go from living

in a very big very wealthy area of Outside of DC to literally living in a double-edged trailer with me in the woods It was her and YouTube videos on raising chickens and Joel Salatin books on permaculture and all of these things where I just sort of decided I I want my kids to have a different experience, and so I really have to get out of my comfort zone. And I'm not patting myself on the back, it was totally, my wife was as big of a driver as I was,

and other awesome people who were willing to help out, but I don't know how you could be. I don't know how else to live now, I'm just so enjoying it. We were house sitting last week, like I said, and I had a moment where I walked outside I was going to work and I saw a bunch of boys playing cricket, right? Which is really cool. There are boys outside But it's just sort of this weird sport that I'm not used to and as I'm looking at it sort of contemplating this

What are they doing? Because even I figured it out, but I couldn't figure it out for a little while a robot Lawnmower drives by me mowing the neighbor's yard, and I just had this dawning of like oh, I'm not supposed to be Yeah, I had this great analogy I was taking care of the saltwater fish tank while I was there and So there's all these fish and they're in the living room the beautiful well-kept saltwater fish tank with coral and everything And I had to do all these things every day or else they would all die And I said to my wife, God wants them to die. Like nature doesn't want them to exist here. They're not supposed to be here.

I am those fish. I feel like those fish. As the robot, or a mormon, just meeeeeee, beside me while I stare at this weird sport that I don't understand. It's just like I am outside of my element 100%. Whereas I respect Homesteading and that kind of stuff, but I don't want to do that I really like that I'm in a town with like seven families on my street who I know Will be you know, I think Yeah, I think I'm good. I think being in a I think being in a town is better than being in the

Sanitized HOA. Yeah. And I'm not knocking that, I understand that's how a lot of people live. But I think- But just for you personally. In a town where you can drive to the supermarket and you know your neighbors, and it's just all about community. It's all about identity and culture.

I want to take some questions because these people were so kind of sent them in. Think of this as the lightning round, is that okay? Because there's a lot and we want to try to get, get through to them all. Um, Matt spares, Matt, Anderson says can span come on pines with Aquinas once a month. This is gold. That's nice. See, I'm telling you, my local supporters are terrific. Howdy. I'm a proud currently in RCA. Oh no, I'm a prod Protestant.

I'm a Protestant currently in RCA at the Easter Vigil. I'll be baptized along with my three boys age six four and two. Any tips on raising Catholic kids that remain in the faith? Give them an identity and give them a culture. Then you know who they are. They need to know what you stand for and you need to be the expert on. They can't be like those fish in the pond that shouldn't be there. Right. And that's what it's like if you try to raise them in a.

Yeah, but what some of the best practical advice that I've gotten, I was just giving a talk. So I'll do like a masculinity talk and I've got one, I stole the title of our last episode that I've given a few times, Raising Kids in Sodom. And one thing that I've heard a lot from young people, because I talk to a lot of college kids, I obviously talk to a lot of high school kids, but a lot of young adults, we have a lot of newly married couples over to our house And so a lot of my advice isn't coming from things I think are good ideas but things that that these younger men are saying man I wish mom and dad had done this mm-hmm one thing that always comes down to it is kids whose parents are too

Uncomfortable to talk about uncomfortable things or too awkward Those kids carry that wound with them for a long time. So the number of kids who come in, be it porn, be it girls, be it being a man, whatever it is, puberty, any of those things that make us feel a little icky. If you're not comfortable talking to your kids, or if your talk is handing them a book

and saying you should read this, it's in there, right? You're doing a huge disservice because you, dad, or you, mom, need to be the expert on those things. Because if you're not the expert, they're gonna ask the kids to sit next to them in there, right? You're doing a huge disservice because you, dad, or you, mom, need to be the expert on those things. Because if you're not the expert, they're gonna ask the kids sit next to them in class, and that kid doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. And then all of a sudden they get these disordered ideas of all of these things, and then the next time

they have a question, they're not going to mom and dad, because that's gonna be weird and uncomfortable. And no one loves your kids like you do, right? No one's responsible for your children's formation as much as you are. I'm sorry, I know that this is a really slow lightning round. I was having a conversation with a man not too long ago who's, he was an older man,

and his children had left the faith. He was talking about his sons who had left the faith, and he was saying, these Catholic schools are failing, man. My kids, they went through all from the time they were in pre-k through, you know, preschool through, senior year Catholic schools, they've all left the faith. And like the fact that he was blaming the Catholic schools for that, and I'm sure that they had something to do with it, right? But no, the Catholic schools are not the primary formators at all. We're a nice little supplement. I think we do an incredible job at my school. I think we're the best one. I would not send my kids anywhere else, but we're, we're just a supplement. And if you're not doing it at home, then who

cares what we do. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. And to your point about culture, I think that is so important. I've said a number of times on the show that it's just a lot easier to raise a Catholic family in a Catholic town, be that Steubenville or wherever else. I don't know if Catholics can continue to live the way maybe we did live 50 years ago, where you're in a basically Christian culture. Now, in many ways you aren't. I understand that sexual revolution, crap on MTV, all that sort of stuff. But things like just speaking personally, and this is not me trying to make people move

to Steubenville, although we're having a ton of people move to Steubenville, including a couple from Hawaii who just moved here Really I go as Peter crave said I'd rather you'd rather be in love in the Bronx than divorced in Hawaii Which is actually super offensive to people in the Bronx. We're like, hey But in the Bronx, yeah That's right But um, you know consider moving to a town where you can have a bunch of other people Come around you we're gonna. We're gonna find identity, and we're gonna find culture in something and It might be a nihilism and nothingness

Which is what a lot of us do it might be in the idea that we just need to be really friendly to each other and care a whole lot about college football or something once again love football, but You need to let your kids know who you are and who they are because they're looking to you, they're looking to you for that formation at the time they're very little. And it's such a stupid lie that nowadays people say there's there's the real world that exists and then there's these little bubbles that aren't the real world as if humans haven't been living in close-knit community with people of the

same values and the same ideas since civilization existed That's exactly what we're going to live in community. Yeah, that's excellent Harry Clune says how much does it cost to go trophy hunting and are there any animals in the states that provide good practice before? Going trophy hunting. Yeah, there are Whitetail deer in the vast majority of the United States of America Getting out and getting out and getting in the woods There's public land America the North American conservation model or North American model of conservation is One of the most successful models in the world the United States and Canada have got all of this public land

That's available if you live in the 48 or Alaska right now. I'm sure it's Hawaii, too I just I don't know. I've never hunted Hawaii You almost definitely have public land within a couple hours drive that you own as much as I own as much as Matt and Neil own right as as citizens of the US and you can go there and you can hunt there and failing to hunt is 10,000 times better for you than Achieving something in a video game right failing to do real things is better than achieving something succeeding in fake things right there Um so yes deer are super prevalent ducks are super prevalent getting into that wild turkeys are super prevalent

There's a ton of things you can get out there and do you just you just have to do it and it's uncomfortable a little bit but like reading poetry and like drinking coffee You just have to do it and it's uncomfortable a little bit, but like reading poetry and like drinking coffee, do it. Because you will, you will catch that bug and you will be doing something that is authentic and real and so good for you. Very good for yourself. I want to go back because somebody just asked, uh, this is Kelly McLaughlin. What does a Catholic culture to raise kids in look like outside of somewhere in, uh, somewhere like incredible, like Superville. I have some idea,

but any advice would help. So what I would say is it's much better to have two or three families that you're close with than a hundred families you interact with. And so when I lived in Atlanta and you were there, right, there was like four, five families that we trusted that weren't given their children smartphones that were good and normal and wild and beautiful and loved our Lord. And we would spend a lot of time together. So I think it can be done but just invest in those people around you and make an intentional effort to do that. I love how you said two additional families too because it's really important for kids to see other humans who are not mom and dad

who are acting the same values that mom and dad have so that you realize you're not by yourself and you're not the only people who are there. Miss Julie Wilborn who's a mentor of mine, I love that woman. You were saying, laughing the other day about how, I don't shut up about how great I think this woman is. She's got this great story about sitting in her living room with her daughter, who she homeschooled,

and her daughter would look out the window every day at the school bus, coming to pick the other kids up and say, like, we are so weird, why are we doing this? And her mom trying to say, we're not weird, they're weird. Like, this is right. And the reason why that ended up working out is because she found all these other wonderful families that eventually became our school.

But she plugged her family and her kids in with other people to say, even though we are weird as in uncommon, we're living normally, being normally how we're supposed to live, if that makes sense. In a weird society. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Brand Bob says what is John Henry's best advice for a young couple who are pursuing marriage?

How do we incorporate God into our relationship on a regular basis to lead to our marriage? Oh my goodness. That's a good one I mean These are always tough because I feel so much of it sounds cliche right about praying together and experiencing the sacraments together This is this is the best way I can sum it up Cheesy things that are you think are cheesy are really wholesome and that is good, right? So I was talking to a group of high school kids about this not too long ago And I was talking about my wife and I's relationship and how looking back and from sort of the modern standards, I mean of the time for sure, especially of today, when we

were doing things like praying a rosary together every night and like being careful about, you know, getting engaged and like, well, we're going to make sure our feet don't touch the ground or I'm sorry, our feet always touch the ground if we're on a couch or something together to guard each other's chastity. The kinds of things that we were open about and talking about, it sounds like a Veggie Tales kind of episode. It's like a cheesy Christian movie style relationship, but I think I'm only calling it cheesy because I've been, I'm a victim of the indoctrination of our culture where I'm saying this is cheesy and campy and weird, when really what it was, it was wholesome and good and beautiful. And I like that. I've been saying that a lot. Cheesy is wholesome and wholesome and good and beautiful. And I like I've been saying that a lot. Cheesy is wholesome and wholesome is good.

That's right. Yeah, I think this this cheese stuff is a result of cynicism. Like one thing I noticed when I was in Uganda is it didn't like it was like they didn't have this language for cheesy. There also wasn't sarcasm. I think sarcasm and calling things cheesy is somehow a result of the cynicism. Sure. You haven't thought that through, but I love that. I love how you said that.

Yeah. Cool. Let's see. Mike Mike says, do you and John Henry have suggestions on how to help your spouse overcome things like overscrupulous faith, anxiety or miscommunication? What about improving yourself with patients being a better head of household or learning to better approach conversations

with your spouse? Yeah, overscrupulousity is something that I talk to a lot of people about and I struggled with in a big way for a long time. I don't know if I've ever told you this, Father Higgins down in Christredeemer, I was in the confessional with him one time and I was confessing all of these things and About halfway through he stopped me and he said none of these are mortal. I'm not absolving you go

Say an act of contrition by yourself. You don't like get out of here and he kicked me out of the confessional And it was really good. It was really good as sort of this like smack in the face of You know God's not a tyrant. God loves you. He is not, because I don't know what this is about, says about my own upbringing and my own outlook, but I've always identified much more with Old Testament God. I get it, man, the justice and the burning cities to the ground and everything. And that's easier for me to connect with, right? The justice is a lot easier for me to understand than the mercy because I feel like I don't deserve it And in my own in my own life and in my own marriage as the head of my household right because it is an

Ontological fact if you're a man and you're listening to this if your father Ontologically speaking by your nature you are the head of your household It doesn't matter if your wife acts like the head of your household you are And that's politically incorrect and going back to what I said earlier That doesn't mean you throw your weight around and everything, but you are the one who You you are you are the leader and you have to lead because if you don't it's going to be leaderless Right if the set if your wife who is not the head is leading there is disorder in the household I think that's super uncomfortable because we've been indoctrinated to hate

our masculinity and hate our role as head as priest, prophet and king, right? The line of Melchizedek, all of you. So I don't know how practical that advice is, but it is true. It's worth knowing. Yeah. Uh, Katie did it says, can you share ideas on how Catholic men can encourage Luke Warmore laps Catholic men to step up and be men of faith leading their families? That's a good follow up question. How Catholic, can you read it one more time?

Can you share ideas on how Catholic men can encourage lukewarm or lapsed Catholic men to step up and be men of faith leading their families? Yeah, I might punt that one over a little bit to you because my own experience, I didn't have a lukewarm Catholic face, right? I went from agnostic-y atheist-y to burning on fire, way too scrupulous, all of these things, jumping into the faith with both feet,

to trying to temper that down for the sake of My my my spouse and my children and being a a regular human being who can connect with people I think that I think that that men are so drawn towards that fire and that intensity You know, I got a lot of uh got a lot of crap last time Because I said I would rather my son join the the Taliban than be just a nothing lukewarm person because at least that fire I understand and I can work with even though it's horribly directed fire, right? But there's still a passion and there's still a burning there and that's so good. In terms of bringing it out, I think we have to remember that we want to as men burn for

something. I think we have to remember that we want to as men burn for something and I think that the the passivity the local football team right Right, it's is coming It exists it is so unnatural and it's probably being manifest somewhere else like towards football Yeah, like towards Marvel or Star Wars or something like that and I'm not knocking Marvel and Star Wars I feel like I'd say it over and over and over again Because I don't want people to say that everything that is that is not tied directly to the faith in some way is weak But CS Lewis back to CS Lewis. He has a really good quote

I'm gonna butcher it but the quote is on he's talking about masturbation talking about pornography And what he's saying about it is that we're all born in these prisons of ourselves you know yeah I do and we're destined to come out of, masturbation points us more and more inwardly. He says it retards the process of coming out. Because becoming a man is coming out of yourself for the sake of other things and in the way that pornography does that to our sexuality I feel like an overemphasis on football or an overemphasis on certain action movies or comic book movies or whatever it is, what you're doing, whereas pornography you're watching other people have sex, right?

You're watching this good part of you, this desire for connection, this desire for love, this desire for physical intimacy is being directed right back in you while you watch somebody else do this good thing, but perversely right When you're watching when you're tied up in action movies or whatever you're living vicariously through these people and not Actually doing the good things yourself going back to it is good to fail at real things and succeeded fake things Oh, that's excellent So I think you got to figure out what what it is that there what it is that they are burning for and then how To redirect and also if that's a female asking that it is I don't think that I don't I don't think that women

Can I don't think that women can push? The men in their life out of that just like with mothers right there comes it gives to be a time when I'm already seeing This with my ten-year-old when he wants to rely less on mom and he wants to be more like that And eventually he's probably gonna want wanna push away from both of us for the sake of becoming a man in his own right. I think good men and getting good men in their lives, not as children, because it's not infantilizing, I need good men in my life.

I said this earlier today. When I saw you, right, outside of St. Luke's Catholic Church in Dahlonega, Georgia 10 years ago or whatever, I attracted to you not romantically not not sexually attracted to you. You're a good-looking guy Well, this is the I mean you go you finish your point No but I was attracted to that because we are attracted to to members of the same sex in a way that we want to be Friends with them and we want connections with real strong good people. So putting real strong good men in their life Well just like trans this transgenderism movement kind of flattens out our interesting personalities

such that a man can only like traditionally manly things and a woman can only like traditional female things. It's like the gay movement makes it uncomfortable to say, of course, men should be attracted to each other. Right? Like why else would you be a friend if you weren't attracted to somebody? I think the other kind of ingredient for good friendships is that the two men have to respect each other, even for different reasons. Whereas like, I want to be like you. Right.

Even if it's in different aspects. So I guess I would say to this, Katie, yeah, I don't know. There might be a men's conference he could attend. There could be videos online that you think he might resonate with. I know apologetics is something that men sometimes relate to and he get a lot more excited about well I talked to so many guys who were converted they have conversions of the mind before they have conversions of the heart and while a conversion of the heart and that desire for

For Christ and salvation obviously is what what we're after for Christ and salvation obviously is what we're after. Attacking the mind of a man is often the better way to go about it. Krystalina Everett's conversion story, which is so beautiful. I have my kids watch it every year in my theology of the body class. She's lovely.

But she talks about how her mom told her, like, you really need to go to this thing. You should really go. And she says, okay, I'm gonna go for 15 minutes and whatever. It ends up changing her entire life. And that doesn't stop after high school. That doesn't stop after high school that doesn't stop after college right go into those things and hearing those things that are really Speaking to the heart and the truth of what makes us human

Regardless of your stage in life. I think can really do it. So yeah men's conference a We have a group at our school called patriarchs. It's just a men's group where they sit around today They talk every week and it's amazing Yeah, we've started a men's group among some guys here in Steubenville and I'm excited about the way we're doing it I gotta say because it's very low-key All we're deciding to do is every Thursday morning at 8 a.m. We meet and if you can't make it you can't make it, right? We're not trying to kind of like force intimacy or for sharing It was like what if we just got together because life's Right. We're not trying to kind of like force intimacy or force sharing. It's like,

what if we just got together because life's busy? We have kids, we run in different circles. What if all we did was meet every Thursday at 8 AM and had a coffee and there was no pressure for it to be this like deep, profound thing. And I like that because I think that a lot of the times or most of the time friendship is forged. It's through boring encounters with each other. It's not necessarily through these highly intense. Right, so an Exodus 90 group or something like that,

which I love, I'm all about some of those things, but there's almost the pressure there of I'm running a race and here's the end. It's my accountability group if I'm struggling with pornography, or it's my Exodus 90 group if I'm trying to grow in this way. And it's almost I Went to talk not too long ago called goals are for losers. There's a name

And he tempered it. I'm not saying goals are necessary for losers But the idea is if you're so goal oriented you're missing the forest for the trees every single time, right? Or I guess you're missing the trees for the forest and you're missing those those real mundane moments that are beautiful and much more impactful than The endgame the thing that you're trying to achieve Sometimes yeah final question this comes from Joe Parisi. What are your views on homesteading? Hmm. I love it, and I understand. There's not feasible for everybody but For the past seven years and we're only in a little hiatus right now because we're renting a house while we build our new house and our new barns and everything but for the past seven years we have not bought any

animal products right we have meat chickens egg chickens turkeys ducks dairy goats I hunt we have bees barn cats dogs we've sold peacocks we've done all of that and I did that not knowing how to do that not knowing how to get into any of that It was me and YouTube and my bride Mostly for the sake of my children, but it's become something that I'm really glad that I did for myself Was there ever a point where you thought okay? I'm a bit off more that I can chew I'm going back No, but I think it's because we we purposely didn't bite off more than we could chew we started with chickens, which are a gateway animal. I think you know you get chickens and that's really easy Well turkeys are just big chickens. Oh, that wasn't too bad. We've already built this infrastructure

We could put goats where we had the turkeys last year and move the turkeys over here and it grew fairly organically And I've I've loved that I thought I was doing it for my kids, but it's been great for me I bet like many things in life our view of how things ought to look is the obstacle to actually doing them I'm sure that's true of many people who they think about homesteading. They imagine what it will be like What's what do you think they're the disconnect there? So I had a girl one time who was farm sitting for me we were out of town and so she was gonna come over twice a day feed one of the animals all of this stuff and What she thought it was gonna be was green acres

of rolling hills with some beautiful cows being pretty out there. And what it was was just feces up to your ankles and shoveling, like mucking out goat houses and all of these things. But I think that the, I think all the frustrating things about it, you know, I didn't mean to make this a theme, but to go back once again to

Failing at things that are real is better than succeeding at things that are fake Excellent even the even the tragedy even when you had the the baby goats were born and one of them died or when you had Well, I did all this work and then I had a coyote that got into my turkey house and maimed all my turkeys the other day or any of those things it just It's the difference between working as a sort of white collar salary employee and an hourly construction worker, where the hourly construction worker at the end of the day says,

man, I did things today. I did real things today. And I'm a white collar guy, so I get the white collar world and why that's important, the service industry and all of that. But I think that the muck and the ugly and the dirty is so real and beautiful and in such contrast to how we're told we're supposed to want to live and it's so much more fulfilling

Yeah, and post you're not dependent right you're dependent on yourselves, right? You're dependent on you and your family That is cool sweat equity is a beautiful thing would you ever want to live? On a farm Neil is there any kind of desire so I think that there's things about like the modern suburban world that I really like right but I don't know I'm really interested in just greenhouse growing my own like peppers and stuff I think it's something I really want to do. And then depending on the situation, I'd love to have chickens.

I think at a certain point, it's like, what I want to do with my life isn't spend most of my time working with animals and things. So I don't know if I'd ever get like a cow or something that's gonna take up more than half of my day. Because I want to do other things too. But in terms of having you know You know maybe long list of chores

The chores are such a cool part like having having these kids and saying you know alright Well if we don't get out and do this today We literally won't have dinner tonight. And it's done in a way that is, it's like there's the fallback because we can always run to Kroger, right? We can always run to the supermarket at the end of the day if we have to.

But we try to pretend like we can't a lot of times. And it's fun. And once again, I do think there's, I forget who said this, but there's a great quote that says, tradition is the democracy of our ancestors. and I think that there's really something to be said for The way things have been done forever Are probably a good way to do things unless we have a good reason not to And there's what we can talk about the horrors of the past we can talk about slavery and we can talk about

Human sacrifices to blood gods of the Aztec and how and things that we shouldn't do just because we've done them. But I think just throwing out the agrarian lifestyle and all of these things that we've been doing since humans have been civilized. Right. I think there's something to be said for that. And unless we know like a Chesterton scenario, why we want to get rid of it, I don't think we should be so quick to throw it aside. That's excellent. All right. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go rid of it. I don't think we should be so quick to throw it aside. That's excellent All right. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go over on locals

I want to record a section on locals Awesome, but we say things that YouTube might ban us for and then we'll also look at some babble on B articles together to get Your reactions great. So if you are a supporter on locals Matt Fred locals comm also be posting this video on patreon We're gonna record it and then upload it. So we're not to go live over there right now, but we will put it up there shortly. Thanks for coming on the show. We're going to put your, I want to put your email below if people want to book you to have a, see if you have free even to give a talk. And then we check out honest to God. Yeah. Check out honest to God. Apple podcasts. We're on Spotify.

We can throw a link down there somewhere. Yeah. Cool. Thanks. Cool. Awesome. Matt. Thank you.