Pints With Aquinas - Fr. Boniface Hicks, OSB

Episode Date: December 17, 2022

Pray on Hallow (FREE TRIAL): https://hallow.com/matt Exodus90: https://exodus90.com/matt-home/ Parler: https://parler.com/mattfradd Word on Fire Liturgy of the Hours: https://www.wordonfire.org/pray/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1sDetvD--wIV5xPUAR1l3QDWEAAYASAAEgKCHPD_BwE Father's upcoming conference: https://encounterministries.us/conference/ Lenten Retreats with Fr. Boniface: https://stemma.org/events http://www.fatherboniface.org/

I'm going to tell by the comments. You're live. We're live. Welcome to Pines with Aquinas. Father Boniface, lovely to have you on the show. Great to be with you. And just so everybody knows, Neil, also known as the cat, oh, as the Catholic, Jamie is going to be leaving us. It's true.

I'm getting married. He never asked permission. We're moving away from the Mecca that is stupid. To Colorado, Father says everybody's moving to Colorado. That's true. It's hard. Yeah. Why is that the pot? Yeah, um the mountains definitely no, I don't know it's some kind of I think it's like a media hub right now To Denver, yeah the Denver area there's a lot of stuff going on there Denver Phoenix and Stubenville. Yeah, it's where all Seems like there's a lot of stuff going on there. Denver, Phoenix, and Steubenville. Yeah.

That's where all the Catholic life is. Is it really? I don't know. That seems like I know people. People seem to migrate to those places who are in my world. Texas, too, I feel like. Texas is, yeah, that's true. Anyway, Neil, you're a really great person, and I'm going to miss you.

Thank you. I'll miss you. Yeah, but we have a new guy who we're gonna call Thursday May or may not be his real name. It is not but that's me. So Thursday is running the cameras today So if anything goes wrong, he will be fired and we will hire Friday What's that your gal Friday, I don't know what that is. An old movie. I always like seeing you. Thanks.

Likewise. Thanks for being with me. So you said you were on an incense kick lately. What does that mean? Wow. Just dive right in. To the heavy stuff. I was tipped off by an Australian priest actually to a Hebrew word from the Song of Songs that I could come back to.

But it led me into the world of incense. And it turns out that incense is the blood of the tree. You're not taking metaphorically, this is where it comes from. No, it's really the blood of the tree. So Frank, Incense and Murrah, at least, I'm sure there's lots of different kinds of incense and whatever, but Frank, Incense and Murrah, which certainly have a central place in Catholicism are the blood of the tree. It's the sap. Wikipedia says,

through repeatedly wounding the tree, sap is brought forth. It can then congeal into pellets that are hardened. So it's a beautiful symbol in our liturgical celebrations that it's the wounds, so wounds that have been brought forth and hardened and are useless and dead and odorless. Then placed by the priest, it's a priestly action to impose incense. Placed by the priest on the coal of divine charity. It then is melted and releases a sweet fragrance that's offered in worship. So the priest is the one who takes the wounds of his people under the symbol of incense and places

them as on the coal of divine charity and then is able to transform wounds into worship. Christ is the one who transforms wounds into worship. It's what the cross is. And then he extended the transformation mechanism, you might say, to us through the mass, which is the perpetuation of his sacrifice, continually transforming suffering into love and into prayer. Pete Wow. Yeah, so I've got a little incense kick. Keep going. Yeah. So, all right. So, back to the Hebrew word. Song of Songs 4 verse 9 is, You have ravished my heart, my sister, my bride. You have ravished my heart with one glance of your eye. So, ravish my heart. Now there are people who really speak Hebrew who are out there who aren't normally in my conferences when I'm talking about this, so forgive my pronunciation.

But something like lev abethini is the, and lev is heart, but then that verb form altogether is ravish, the heart. That word is used in extra biblical literature to describe the stripping of bark from a tree. The bark is the hard outer layer of the tree that protects the tree. Stripping the bark makes it vulnerable. And it exposes the tender phloem layer, which is beneath the bark where the sap runs. Wow.

And so the bridegroom's heart is made vulnerable by the bride. He lets down his walls. He allows the tender underlayer to be exposed. The bridegroom's heart is made vulnerable by the bride. He lets down his walls. He allows the tender underlayer to be exposed. He allows himself to be wounded by her beauty, by her plight, by her own woundedness, by his desire to rescue her and serve her. And then he also, so the priest not only offers the wounds of the people, but his own wounds

that have hopefully been brought forth by that kind of vulnerability. So trees and incense and wounds. But unlike the bridegroom, our Lord, who you say kind of allows himself to be moved, what about the bride who needs that bark scraped off through pain and grace? It's different, right? Cause I don't intentionally all the time. I mean, I can intentionally by God's grace, lay down my defenses, but sometimes it feels like that stuff has to be like part bark has to be peeled away. Well, I, I might have to circle back around to incorporate that. I'm so sensitive to not stripping people's defenses. I love, there's a phrase in John of the Cross

where he talks about, the Lord loves us into letting go. And I think that's the right tone, that when we are well-loved, then we let down the defenses, then we allow our hearts to be stripped. Father, I can't cry 10 minutes into the video. It's not fair. We get to wait at least two more hours. I remember I jumped on a call with you since you're my spiritual father. And I was just maybe a little insecure about like dumping everything I was ready to dump on you.

That's not what I was doing, but just sharing my heart with you. Because I thought this guy has like a thousand spiritual children. You must get exhausting. And so I said to you, isn't it exhausting hearing people's crap constantly? Do you remember what you said? I'm never exhausted by it. Not hearing the depths of people's hearts is exhausting. The bark is exhausting.

Yeah. The tender vulnerability you said is the most beautiful thing. The most beautiful. Pride bark is exhausting. The tender underlayer. Vomitability, you said, is the most beautiful thing. Pride is the exhausting thing. Our defenses are. Yeah. And then we don't, again, it's not a matter of attacking defenses. I don't know. Maybe there are ways to do that. I mean, there's certainly a place for admonition. We call people to account, especially people in power who are multiply layered. But in my world, it's loving down defenses. When somebody is confident that they can expose that under layer and it's not going to be wounded by me,

that they can expose the wounds and they're not going to be further wounded by me, then the defenses come down. And I appreciate the defenses. They've held people together. They've held all of us together. The world is harsh. It's hard to walk around in this world where there's a lot of defensiveness,

there's a lot of attacking, there's a lot of, and it takes a lot of courage to let, well, it takes a lot of strength to hold ourselves together to actually interact in that space. And then it takes courage to become vulnerable. And rightfully, we need to trust and we should be able to determine trust and people should earn that trust. Yeah, you shouldn't be exposing yourself to people who are suspect.

That's right. Okay, so I like that because we often say that the Lord is a gentleman. He doesn't kick the door down. He knocks. So how do we reconcile that with what the pains of life often do to us if we don't want to say it's the Lord stripping us violently in a kind of overpowering way. But I know in my own life, it's like the pain and the hurt of my own life running up against reality, seeing the ideals I had for my life and my children, my kids and myself and my prayer life

and everything. And then trying to reconcile that with the way things actually are, the pain that comes about through that. Well, and I want to be so gentle in all of that space. I mean, with you personally, but just generally what people have been through. And I think one of the most destructive things we can say is, you know, God has jumped in and has started tearing apart people's walls and has allowed violence. I mean, people have suffered so much.

And to just sort of say God did all of that, I think can further wound. So there is a way, what I would say is, God brings, so he transforms wounds into worship. He transforms wounds into love. I think it's the right way to describe it, that Christ enters into all of that so that we never suffer alone.

He enters into all of our suffering and takes it on himself. That's ultimately what we see on the cross, is our suffering. He's embraced our suffering. And then he transforms it so that love has the last word. He heals it so that love has the last word. He brings it to the father so that the final act is embrace. He does all of that. But again, to say anything more about God causing or it's just so that can do more damage, I think.

But certainly, there's a purpose to all of it. And it's a word I like to take from when we talked about my conversion story the first time I talked to you. A key moment for me, and it's become a fixation as the prologue of John. But you know in the beginning was the word and he says through him all things were made. The word is logos, which means logic, meaning, purpose, and to know that there's a purpose. So we have to be careful not to get too specific into you know so that we don't say you were abused so that don't ever do that. Don't ever do that. The Holocaust happened so that. No, no, don't go there.

But having suffered certain things, is it meaningless or is there a direction? Is there a bigger purpose? Is there a final result? Is there a greater transformation? And I love Pope John Paul and his last book, Memory and Identity, looking back at the suffering of the 20th century, he said, you know, is there a limit on evil? When we look at the Soviet Revolution or we look at the Nazis, we look at the atrocities,

is there a limit on evil? And he said, the limit on evil is precisely mercy. God doesn't allow any evil greater than his mercy has power to transform it and draw good from it and have the last word to win the victory. So there's no greater evil than what Christ takes on himself on the cross and is able to transform in resurrection

and into love. So to know that I think helps, you know, in whatever ways that we've been stripped, whatever places we've suffered, whatever wounds have been brought forth, whatever incense has been produced by our heart, there is a divine charity, there is a call of worship in which that incense can be offered. So it's nothing is meaningless. Nothing is lost. Everything is redeemed. I'm thinking of Song of Songs too, where our Lord is looking in at the beloved and what does he do? He doesn't scold her or shame her or strip her. He speaks beautifully to her. He woos her, doesn't he? He calls her my beautiful one, my love, my dove, see.

And she can't see because her head's in the cleft of the rock like the bird. Come let us catch the foxes. The rain is over and gone. Like he loves her out. Yeah. Speak to that. She maybe has a reason to hide. There are a lot of reasons to hide. There's a lot of suffering and people want to hide in a rock. That's a nice safe place. Hide in the rock.

He doesn't force her out. He doesn't shoot at her. He doesn't threaten her. He loves her out. Loves her into letting go. He loves her defenses down. He loves her into trusting him again. Draws her forth, woos her, attracts her.

Yeah. And the spiritual life, I mean, you're raised with like, trusting him again, draws her forth, woos her, attracts her. Yeah, and the spiritual life, I mean, you're raised with like, here are your prayers that you say, here are the things that you do, and these are all necessary. But it's got to get to that place somehow. Like it's got to, that stuff has to somehow get integrated with the personal response to the beloved, doesn't it? Or else what? It just remains on the level of law and obligation and dry duty. Yeah, it's a, it seems that the, an ordinary path is encounter, which leads to conversion,

a transformation of thought and habits in order to orient our life as Pope Benedict said so beautifully, you know, Christianity is not an ethical decision or a lofty idea, but an encounter with an event, a person that gives life a new meaning and a broader horizon, our decisive direction and a broader horizon. So that encounter produces a desire to change behavior. But then when you're raising children, when you're raised in faith, then what are you going to raise children with? Well, you give them the tools, but even here it's a place that I really love the catechesis of the good shepherd because it's a Montessori based method of catechesis that first of all engages children at their

appropriate developmental levels. They even have a toddler atrium in CGS. It's amazing. And it's oriented toward, well, taking advantage of the absorbent mind as as Maria Montessori described, at zero to six, children soak in everything. This is why they can learn like four languages without going to school. They just soak in everything. So why wouldn't we feed them the language of faith?

The symbols and the words, the gestures, which are liturgical gestures, which are scriptural words, which are the narrative. So we feed the children that dataural words, which are the narrative. So we feed the children that data of faith, the language of faith, but for the sake of an encounter so that they have some of those things happening so that they can actually meet the Good Shepherd. And that's the first parable that's presented to the children is the parable of the Good Shepherd from John 10.

And the children come to know Him, and they leave these pregnant questions, like, He calls each of the sheep and they follow Him. He knows them by name. And the catechist says, Who do you think those sheep are that are so important that the shepherd would know their names. And they just leave the question hanging. And weeks, months later, children will come back and say, I think I know who the sheep are. Really? I'm one of the sheep. Yeah. And it leaves them the chance for discovery, but then it becomes personal. It's a personal discovery and a personal encounter.

So anyway, because without that encounter and deepening this language that we're using right now to express, you know, faith, it sounds like a different religion. If all you've got are the as necessary as they are, we have to keep saying that. Otherwise people get upset, but the prayers, the structure, the rhythm, the liturgical life, but like all of that is aimed at intimacy with God, isn't it? But so many of us, do you think, or many people haven't made that transition, which is maybe why they look at Catholicism as sort of meaningless in their lives? Or what do you think? We had just started a conversation before the show. I'm just gonna bring in a little thread from that to follow up on that idea about how hard this conversation is because when we think of however many thousands

of people, I don't know how you minister to thousands of people. So there are people like you describe definitely who have been raised in the faith. Sometimes that's been tainted with very harsh things. Religion has been used as a cloak in order to exercise control over children. Or there's a whole variety of really mixed up things

from good intention to bad intention from just anyway, just so many people. And so I always have a hard time generalizing. But certainly, there are people who have been raised in the faith who haven't had that kind of encounter. And a lot of our older CCD models and things like that, Catholic education models, are about memorization and practices,

prayers, in the hopes that you're just laying a groundwork of kindling that eventually a spark will be set with an encounter and then you have all the stuff ready to go if there's ever that encounter and like you said otherwise it just becomes a kind of cultural practice and then it's not and then sometimes it just falls away because it's sort of like Our friend Father Ryan Mann just introduced me to this idea. He talks about Jesus is not like broccoli. Broccoli is that vegetable that you think it's probably good for you.

You probably ought to eat it. You don't really like it, and you don't want it, and so you can take it or leave it. So Jesus is not like broccoli. Jesus is really essential. We can't live without him. But Jesus becomes like broccoli if Jesus is really essential. We can't live without him. So, but Jesus becomes like broccoli if, if Jesus is just a set of practices and prayers that that don't have any life behind them that don't have a relationship, a face, heart.

And you think if you're trying to raise kids in the aftermath of Western civilization here in the ruins, it's just a lot of fear. Like a lot of fear. Like a lot of parents are really afraid. I know I was, and as I think I grow in sanctity, I let's less so, but there's just this fear, like things are not okay. And my kids are going to be destroyed by this society. And that's how you start. What is do you agree with that?

And what does that lead to? And how do we grow out of that? Well, and I think you're saying that because one of the directions it can lead to is I'm going to cram all of this Catholic stuff into my children. And then that's going to save them from the evil world out there. And they won't go astray. And I can appreciate that. I don't mean that in a negative way.

And the fear I think is very real. And so what do you do? I mean, I love some of these Montessori principles. Like they have to discover for themselves. I can create an environment. I should create an environment of humble and authentic witness. I should not be a hypocrite.

I should try to live my faith as fully as possible. And I should create opportunities for them to meet Jesus. But they have to have their own relationship with him. I can't have it for them. And their relationship can't merely exist of my practices. They need to develop their own relationship. And so I want to keep doing that.

I want to ask questions, not just provide answers. I want to invite them to pray and to try and to explore, necessarily, the spiritual life ultimately consists in passages of try, fail and surrender. And if we never give them the chance, if we never motivate them to try and never give them the opportunity to fail, then they will never surrender.

And they won't know that they have a savior and a Lord who is much greater than anything they could achieve on their own. So all of that is part of the challenge of parenting. I've been learning a lot as a parent lately. The Lord has been teaching me a lot. I think I'm very idealistic. And that's true of like my marriage. I have a way. I think marriage should look, I have a way. I think my sex life should look.

I have a way I think my spiritual life should look. I have a way I think my parenting should look. My house should be run. Right. It's a lot of shooting. It's a lot of shooting, man. Don't show all of yourself, but I do. And, um, and, and, and, uh, one thing I'm learning too, uh, now I think is to, how do you let go of, cause you have two, two choices, right? If you have this idealized view of how parenting and kids should look and behave and engage with

each other right you have that you think that's the way that's the ticket that's what we're after and then you have like the way things are I'm learning to like condescend from the way maybe that's the wrong word for the way I think things should be to the way things actually are and like get involved there. I'll give you just like a little example, right? So I don't know, just had this idea that it would be a beautiful thing if I had a little family and we would read good books and we would love beautiful things and we wouldn't be caught up in the ways of the world and the latest friggin Marvel movie and video games and these, these stupid unholy things.

But then somehow my kids might like Minecraft. How the hell did this happen? How did this snake get through the door? And then you've got your view of the way things should be, and then you see it somewhere like so it is actually happening in some people's houses, which just makes you feel all the worse. What have I screwed up? If I'm unwilling to let go of that quote unquote perfect view, then I think I can really destroy my relationship with my children.

So I think what the Lord's been teaching me is to condescend into their interests and like, tell me why you love that. Tell me, what's beautiful about that. Like, why do you enjoy that? Show me that. And that's been the ticket, Father. Holy moly, that's been the ticket. But if I keep beating the drum and insisting

that family prayer look the way I think it ought to look, I've created more and more damage. And then when I think about my own childhood, the most, all I wanted, and I'm sure it's true of you and everybody watching, more and more damage. And then when I think about my own childhood, all I wanted, and I'm sure it's true of you and everybody watching, was for my parents to delight in me. Like to actually sit and enjoy me. But if your parents or my parents just criticized us constantly

because they were trying to have us reach this ideal that they had in their head, there's no time for delight. And I don't want to live like that. And I don't want my kids to continually feel like disappointments. So as much as the Lord allows, and as much as I'm submitting to him, I've been doing that. And when I do it, I just breathe.

And I'm like, things are really okay. Like they're really okay. Like the wheels aren't falling off. Does any of that make sense? I'm just trying to think it through. And maybe you can help me by saying it better. Well, I, I, I appreciated this about you from the first time that we talked, I think I heard you talking about, uh, your children.

I think you might've been talking about Liam in particular. And I just, I just heard the love of a father for his children. And I was so moved by that. Even to have this conversation shows how much you care and how much you're trying, how much they matter to you, how much they're in the center of your heart, the center of your life. You're trying to do your best by them.

And then to tell them to be present does an incredible amount. I just say more specifically about the things you were saying. I've really learned a lot from Conrad Bars. He has this concept of affirmation, which is maybe a little different than what our society might think of, but it's fundamentally an affirmation of being. Like it's good that you exist. Now I can just say that to you and that can be a little bit trite. How do I really show that to you? I show you that you're a gift to me,

that you move me, that you make a difference in my life at the fundamental level of being, not because you did something, not because you could do something, not because you need to change, not because you exist, you are a gift to me. And I show that to you by the way that I look at you, the way I smile at you, the little gestures of encouragement, of delight that I make.

And so you experience yourself as a gift through my heart. And that helps you to be confident that you are really a gift and it reinforces that. And then you grow. So my image for this is like, you know, if you imagine a little plant that's growing and maybe it's growing in some interesting directions, and maybe think if you have your ideal of what that plant ought to look like,

I'm gonna snip that off and trim that off and clip that thing off and snip that thing off. You don't even know what the plant looks like. The most important thing we can do is water it. Ha. And we pour water into the roots, the ground, like it's good that that plant exists. Pour water into the roots and then it begins to grow.

Now there's a place for pruning, but especially a tender plant or a plant that's withering doesn't need to be pruned. It needs to be watered. That's affirmation. I see. And then it begins to grow and we can look at it together. But just those kinds of questions like,

what do you like about this? You're actually caring about his heart, about your children's hearts and that they're a gift to you and they have something to add to your life, that their existence matters and moves you, and then they feel good about that, then they wanna become what God made them to be, and then you can discover that.

I mean, it's amazing. See, I always think parents have this idea that their children are not strangers. Really, it's one of the corporal works of mercy to welcome the stranger when you give birth to a child. That child might have your DNA, but you don't know who in the world that child is. Every child is radically unique and-

And you do so much damage by thinking that you do and acting out of that, don't you? I think so. Like how many people have been wounded when someone has said, you're just like your mother, or you're just like your father or I know you. And they just assume the worst of you. Yeah. You're like, well, if you did know me, you would know that that hurt me.

So why would you say that? Yeah. But just to love people into life is it. Why is that so hard? Because you say that and it sounds like a cute aphorism, but I know you mean it and I know you do it as a spiritual father, but why do we find that so hard? It's precisely the kind of thing you're describing is you had your idea of what they ought to be.

You have your dream of what someone ought to be, should be. You see what their kids look like and you want your kids to behave that way, look that way, do that thing. And when people are free, it's terrifying for us because they can freely come to us, but they can also freely leave us. And even as little children, you know, like you might think you've got all the control in the world over them, but they can reveal to you what they want and hide from you what they want.

So I always tried ever since my kids were young, whenever they owned up to doing something horrible, I would lavish praise on them because I just want them to continue to communicate with me. Like when I was a kid, I hid everything from my parents. Like I stole from my parents. I lied to my parents. I made up things because I didn't want to get in trouble, you know? And that was wrong of me. Um, but it's a,

it's a defense mechanism that makes sense, even if it's wrong. Like, I don't want this. So if I do this, I don't get the bad thing. Yeah. And I think it's a great, uh, ideal to strive for, for, for parents and then for leaders in general, that you're safe enough that people can tell you the truth. And that's a high bar. How do you, what are your children?

Because, you know, I can say these things about what I'm learning in parenthood, right? And someone could say, oh, thank you, this is gonna really help me when I have kids. And I wanna be like, no, no, no, I'm explaining what the medicine is doing to me. Me explaining what the medicine is doing to me doesn't do anything thank you. This is going to really help me when I have kids. And I want to be like, no, no, no, I'm explaining what the medicine is doing to me. Me explaining what the medicine is doing to me doesn't do anything to you. It's the kids who are the medicine. So what are your kids as a celibate that like heal you and help you whatever, you know?

Yeah. Well, I have certainly my spiritual children and this is one of the most I have certainly my spiritual children and this is one of the most powerful and transforming dimensions of spiritual. Spiritual direction I think is not a great term. I like spiritual fatherhood and you know or spiritual motherhood for a woman that that expression of the East I think more accurately characterizes the kind of relationship that can develop and I think we aim at in spiritual direction, but being able to love people, to develop the level of trust

that someone can share everything and really open their hearts. And that's kind of the fundamental thread in spiritual direction, to be able to share anything. And then to love the person in that allows a lot of healing to happen and a lot of transformation to share anything. And then to love the person in that allows a lot of healing to happen and a lot of transformation to take place. Just that already. It's just very simple in that sense. And I delight in the, I mean, it's amazing. God is amazing in the variety of people that he's made.

And to get to know so many hearts is really the great joy of my life. I get to see the sort of inner workings of a lot of people and hear their stories and they become in some ways little children at different times and get a little bit anxious and look for approval. And there's just something so sweet about vulnerability. Vulnerability is just so lovable. Yeah, I agree.

I love it. I think that's why I love when Jordan Peterson's at his best, he's vulnerable. That's why the guy keeps crying. You know? And I'm like, yeah, that's beautiful. Like he seems to be letting his guard down. Maybe not always, but when he does, it's like, oh, wow.

Yeah. Yeah, so beautiful. That's I love that about him also. You were talking earlier about like condescending down to your kids levels. What are some things that you have experiences like that? Yeah, so one would be like my son loving Minecraft or telling me about a new video game. Right. And I might be going to be like, you should be reading Shakespeare, dammit.

Which I, of course, have never said. you know, that that idea. But yeah. Have there been any things like that though, that you've like kind of gained at least seeing it through their eyes? Some kind of appreciation for something like that? If I allow myself, if I stop being afraid and allow myself that absolutely. But when I'm afraid that, Oh gosh, he's going to become like a 23 year old kid in the basement and no social skills and that fear, I can't see it. I can't see any good in what they're trying to tell me or my daughter,

Avila. Can I share a text exchange with my daughter? This happened the other day. She won't mind me sharing this with you because it was me who shared vulnerably not. And then I'll talk. I'll answer your question. So Avila was coming home from Florida with my wife and she said, hi, hi, dad. It's Avila here. I love you so much. And I can't wait to see you tomorrow. Love Avila. I wrote back Avila. If anyone ever hurts you, I will kill them and give you their dead body as a present.

Anyway, so she, she appreciated that. But then, sorry, let me finish this thought. And then maybe if I'm not answering, you can push back. But like Avila, all Avila wants to do is lay in bed with dad and watch Doctor Who. And you know, maybe I don't want to, or maybe I think, well, it would be better if you were journaling. And that might be better, but this is what she wants. And so to kind of condescend and by condescend, I mean that in the way that God the Father condescends to that, to his children's needs and desires and interests. Right. I mean, all things like metaphysics or whatever the heck God's thinking about himself seems far more interesting than how I like this coffee better than this coffee.

But apparently God's interested in all of my fears and things. So like trying to see what she loves and then and then yeah, allowing myself to love it with her. I know that's a delight. When I was a kid, I was about 15. I loved Metallica and I really liked a year and a half in the life of Metallica, which was a documentary about the black album they made.

And I remember watching it in the lounge room one day and my dad coming in and sitting down. And he may have sat there for five or 10 minutes watching it with me. Didn't say anything, but I was now aware of everything and knew, and I was so pleased that he was enjoying a part, something my heart loved. But if he came in and told me about how heavy metal was bad for this reason

and this isn't what true masculinity is and here's what it is, even if he was right, it would have just hurt. So does that answer or did you have? I mean, I was just looking for like experiences like that. Yeah, yeah. My my father a couple of years ago, or did you have? I mean I was just looking for like experiences like that. Yeah. Yeah. My father, a couple years ago I was really into basketball before it got political. And I remember my favorite memory with my father, hi dad, is we went to the Pacers and

the Cavaliers in a playoff game at Bankers Life Field House. And we were in the nosebleeds, could barely see the stadium, but it's my favorite memory with my dad, because he bought the tickets and took me to the playoff game, because he knew I loved the team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same thing with superhero movies. Like, I would rather fast for 24 hours

than watch one Marvel movie. But if my son wants to do that, then maybe I can just like get off my high horse and try to see what they see. What do you, what do you think? Am I, am I saying all that needs to be, have we, have we scraped out everything in this well? Yeah.

Well, there certainly is that, uh, again, just that it's good that the, that your son exists and to be with him is a blessing. And the context is secondary. And I think there can be a danger that we can send the message that only if it's interesting to me, you know I've spent time with you. So what's interesting to you doesn't really matter unless it's interesting to me. That's why like, in fact, today I went home for a second

and my son came up to me. He's doing Catholic homeschool connections. And if you know where that's like online classes, okay. Hey dad I just started studying like we're doing the summa for like school and I I Was so honored because I know he's telling me that because he knows I'll be excited But I was also reluctant to get excited because I I don't want him to only share what he knows will get me excited Like I want to know about Zelda. Tell me about that. That's right. Yeah.

And that's the, there's a kind of a dance there or there's a, there's a mutual resonance that's there. There's a mutual accustoming. I thought of a couple of things to tie this in sort of scripturally and theologically the, I think the word condescend that you are using to describe what God does, katabasis or something like that, the Holy Spirit will come down upon you and you will conceive in your womb and bear a son. And then the Holy Spirit, the same verb in the Pentecost,

the Holy Spirit coming down upon the apostles. But it's to bend over that, whatever that verb is, katabasis or something like that, is to bend over. And that's what God does. He bends over in the Holy Spirit. He bends over our lady. He bends over the church to gather her up, to gather us up, to be with us

in the way that you're talking about. And then I like, Irenaeus talks about the mutual accustoming. He says, God had to become accustomed to man to live in our flesh so that man could become accustomed to God, so that we could live in his divine participation. And there's that kind of mutual accustoming, like God has to kind of get used to being in our flesh, like the father has to get used to being in his son's world a little bit, but it's appropriate that your son gets used to being in your world at the same time. And there's a kind of mutual accustoming that's happening. That's beautiful, you know, so your son may have never heard about the Soma and he may care about it a degree more

because his dad does, but you know, anyway, so. Yeah, no, that's good. I've said this like three or four times on the show, but I want to keep saying it because I think it keeps healing people when I do. And I really want your insights into this. And you'll forgive me if I've already said this to you before, but like the way like a young dad, Matt Fradd prayed with his kids is very different to how like an older Matt Fradd prays with his kids. Like in the beginning, it was very important that we were doing it the way I thought was right. So let's just take the rosary, for example, if we're going to pray the rosary, we do it every single night or else. We may as well never do it because those are the only options. Right. And if we do it like you bloody well, you pay attention, make the sign of the cross.

No, I know you have 10 fingers. Use the beads. Right. Stop. How many glasses of water do you need to get up for? Please sit down. Right. That's how my rosaries were. And you think who the hell wants to pray with a young Matt Fred who's just barking at them. So now old Matt Fred would be so judged by young Matt Fred

because old Matt Fred now I'm just like, I just let the kids do what they want to do. So like, Peter's gotten four drinks of water and he's brought the cat up from the basement. Cool. Awesome. Like one of the kids is coloring. I don't even think that person over there is praying, but it doesn't matter. Like what really matters is that the rosary is like that warm fire. Like let's just draw everybody together and let's just pray as best as we can. And, and imagine how much more beautiful this will be if old man Matt Fradd isn't getting upset with everybody.

And I feel free to say that because I know everybody's like that. Like I don't think, I know I'm not unique, but just that gentleness. It's like, well, he's not praying. That's, what are you going to do? You're going to make him do it? Like you're going to make his heart do it.

You can make her do it. Well, you just we're here. We're together. And and that not only I think is that a better experience, but you're more likely to be more consistent. Like, you can't be angry every night. You're not going to keep that up. If you're going to be angry every night, you know, screw the rosary. Like, let's just pray the chaplet.

And when that gets too annoying, one Hail Mary. And once that rosary. Like, let's just pray the chaplet. And once that gets too annoying, one hail Mary. And once that gets annoying, like, let's just put another TV in another room. Yeah. And God forbid the rosary becomes conjoined in the hearts of your children with dad's anger. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Speak to that though, cause I mean, that's, that's, that's what I've learned. And I say that I might go home tonight and like be like bickering again and then I'll repent of it.

But there's a growth that's taking place. Yeah. And that growth isn't just, oh, it's easier now because I don't have to be so nitpicky. It's like, no, I'm seeing the fruits of being less of an asshole. But how do you how would you phrase that? What advice do you give to parents as they seek to establish a prayer life in their home or on their own that isn't maybe going to be like their idealized version? Well, I have to say, first of all, I just have tremendous admiration for parents. If I can apply my own version of what you described earlier about the idealization,

I had these things. Because I was baptized when I was 21. I entered the monastery when I was 22, and I had a lot of ideals of how things are supposed to look and supposed to go. And I had only one experimental platform, which is my brother's marriage. And so I tried to introduce, project, force. Now fortunately, my brother is fairly impervious to my recommendations or requirements or whatever it was. So mostly I had to observe. And as I observed what was clearly many things in a beautiful marriage and beautiful parenting,

and it didn't look like what I had in mind, I had to learn from this, and it has given me just a lot of appreciation for parents. So I'm very reverent about not telling parents how to parent. So you actually have the grace to parent. I don't have the grace to parent in that sense. And there really is, you know, in the same way I would say, I love when Monasori promotes this idea of asking a question to children. Like, we have the answers. I know who the sheep are, but the children also need to figure that out. And they're going to figure it out in a

little different way. It's going to be a personal encounter. It's going to be something different than what I could have told. So, I try to follow my own advice in spiritual direction that way and just ask questions and help parents. But I've seen a variety of things and I think that the number of children, the temperament of the children, the state of the household, some people are more, you know, you're clearly principle oriented. The fact that you have ideals, you know, we've done, we've talked about strength finders, you know, having a high belief in strength finders, convictions, and that's a certain kind of parent, and not everybody's like that.

And there are gonna be different things to wrestle with in that sphere, which are letting go of the ideal, allowing some craziness, finding different ways. I remember I was in one house, the parents invited me to pray the rosary with them and they had a certain age of entry for their children. Like once they reached, I don't know, seven or five or something like that,

then they could be part of the family rosary. The other children had to go, you know, and get ready for bed or whatever. So they made it this kind of desirable thing and they had to kind of age into it And yeah, the little one was watching from the top of the steps unable to be a part of it But longing to me and you know They allowed that to build up for a couple of years and then when the kids were kind of acting up they could say

You know your back back upstairs and just very peacefully Yeah, you've you've been beautiful about that to start interrupt because it's kind of like a natural thing of as you grow, you kind of are able more to participate in the spiritual life. So it's kind of like that's what is the reality. Yeah, it's so we've got to be careful not to mandate things too specifically because people are different and marriage is different and families are different. I see what you're saying. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So important. And the family rosary is not for everybody. Exactly. And I've seen people, there can be a different kind

of problem, which is always casting about for the perfect thing, which you'll also never find. There's always going to be the mess of the reality of our humanness and the human dynamics and the- Which God seems cool with. Or at least- seems to be way more open to it than we are. Like we're wretched and narrow and we have very specific ideas of how things exactly need to look. God seems to allow way more mess than I would. Yeah, within obvious limits, right? You know, I always like to say that God generally whispers

and so we have to really want to hear him or we won't. Except he does shout, that's Mount Sinai, that's the 10 commandments. God shouts the 10 commandments, but the little invitations of love to deeper intimacy, to closer following, he whispers those things and he wants our freedom. He doesn't want to force us.

So within certain limits, so within God's shouting, he really doesn't want us to destroy ourselves and others. The Ten Commandments establishes the basic environment in which we can grow in freedom in order to hear him. But within that space, he wants to whisper and draw us and speak to our hearts. And each family is its own. It's a domestic church.

I think it's a beautiful expression that has developed over the course of the centuries, that there's a culture. Each family has its own kind of mini culture. And that's a beautiful thing, all of these different cultures. And then a parish has a culture and a dioces. And that's a beautiful thing. All of these different cultures. And then a parish has a culture and a diocese, and then different rights. There are a lot of different cultures

that nest inside of each other. Speaking of diocese and parishes, have you thought much about what COVID lockdowns have done to the parish and the diocese and what parishes and diocese might look like in five or 10 years. Just if we can speculate, you don't have to be a prophet. We don't have to be, we have to be right. But like, what are some, like I shared with you earlier that it's like, I don't know how many people are like, I'm going to be like an adult faith

formation guy or I'm going to be a youth minister. I see a lot of people saying like, I'm going to be like an Instagram influencer or I'm going to start a YouTube channel. And fair enough. But what does that do if I'm right in that assessment, right? That the majority of people who like say going to Franciscan, if I'm right, that maybe whereas back in the nineties, a big percentage or a significant percentage were going into parishes or to do mission work somewhere. If I'm right, that those people now, many of them are seeking like a place online and for a number of reasons. One, it might reach more people. Two, they can make more money, right, to provide for themselves and their families.

Okay, so then what does that do? Like what does that poverty do in the structures of the church? Is that good? Is it bad? Is it just the way things are? Well, I think the whole internet space is obviously this whole kind of fascinating thing that has developed in such a short period of time. The influence that it has on Catholicism is staggering. Well, the fact that we're getting every word of the Pope all the time, right? Or, you know, everything, everything is an international broadcast. Everybody with a YouTube. He can't finish a sentence without in five minutes there being a YouTube video about

the priest. It's crazy. It's crazy. And so the ultimate influence of all of that, it certainly provides an incredible opportunity. I mean, we can have a conversation like this or Jordan Peterson can have five million people. That's a couple of years ago when I watched his entire Maps of Meaning course and his entire whatever, a psychological development course, models course, and the, you know, there are 5 million people

that had watched these entire courses online. It's just amazing, and there's more than that now. So what is it, nobody ever addressed 5 million people before in the history of mankind. I mean, what does that do? And that's a whole crazy impact. But I think, now this might also demonstrate the difference, we tend to pay attention to our own space, I suppose. So I haven't noticed that everybody

wants to be an internet broadcaster, but you're much more in that space. And so you see some of the multiplication. But I think the church has reasserted the necessity of the parish. And I would go even more refined, and now this is my space, which is one-on-one accompaniment. And I see the necessity of that, the necessity of having that, and partly because of that need for individualization that I was saying before,

what can you say to 5 million people, pray the rosary in your family. And then 5 million people are trying to cram this advice into situations that don't fit it. And I think we need this. And Pope Francis said it in the Joy of the Gospel, the entire church must be initiated into the art of accompaniment, which involves removing one's sandals before the sacred ground of the other.

I love that expression. Those were his words. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah, he's used that a couple of times. Removing your sandals before the sacred ground of the other, that we really, we need that individual reverence,

that affirmation that Conrad Barz talks about. We need that like we need food. We need that like a plant needs water. And we can't mass produce that. And so while there's an incredible opportunity to put a lot of stuff out there, there's still a need to have a very personalized and connected space in which to grow.

And that's what the parish needs to offer. I think the transformation that parishes become both landing places for people who are encountering the Lord, that's the localization. You can't receive the body of Christ through the internet. You can only receive that in the church. Even confession, right? I can't shoot you an email. And you can't receive confession through the internet. You can't receive any of the church. Even confession, right? I can't shoot you an email.

And you can't receive confession through the internet. You can't receive any of the sacraments through the internet. You can only receive them in person. So there needs to be a localization. There is no app for that. There's no app for that, that's right. So there has to be a localization.

And then I think parishes as homes, but then also as places, seed beds for mission that we can draw out from there and we can draw into there, that it becomes a beating heart that really is able to send oxygen out into the world and then gather the sullied blood back into the heart to be cleansed and purified and then sent back out again. So, but that's a real shift from the culture of Catholicism. I'm so glad to hear that there is this reemphasis on the parish, because it's a reemphasis on the human and how humans interact. Yeah, in the summer of 2020, the Vatican Congregation for the Clergy put out a document on pastoral

conversion, the transformation that should take place in a parish. And that's following up from the Joy of the Gospel, Pope Francis' document and a number of things there, to have a missionary conversion, that everything should be set in a missionary key, but that the parish remains a vital element. It needs to be flexible, it needs to adjust, it needs to find, you know, and I think the internet space for the parish and ways of communicating and having that outreach and fostering that kind of connection is really important, but to bring people in person also. I found a stat the other day that scared the heck out of me. I don't know if I shared this with you, Neil or not, but so when you go into the back end of YouTube, you can see the statistics of how many people have watched, how many views, how many watch time, like how much watch time in hours.

Collectively, people have watched over the last 28 days. Let's check this out. Over the last 28 days on pints with Aquinas. Collectively, people have watched 291.9 thousand hours. That means within a month, people have watched over 33 years of pints with Aquinas. You know how scared that makes me? Like, if I'm going to be judged on every idle word, that's terrifying. Thanks for drawing me into your...

Well, and then you also have a big radio show. So there's something, even if you don't have the same statistics, it's like, I know. Ah, we got to tremble before that. Yeah. Especially when you're speaking, as you say, generally, like I'm not, it's like how you get misunderstood

or how you phrase things that was unhelpful for a particular person, given what they went through. I know. Yeah, those things do make me tremble. And I, I have our radio. We are one body. We broadcast things that are catechetical and contemplative and they're sort of archival by nature. And so we're able to rebroadcast a number of things. Pope Benedict's Pentecost homily from 2012 is just as good in 2012 as it

is in 2022, you know. So we rebroadcast some of the conversations and things. We tend not to do news and whatever else, so it survives. It is a nice break for people. But as a result, we're still broadcasting things that I said in 2010, 2011, and they're being heard today. but we're still broadcasting things that I said in 2010, 2011, and they're being heard today. And my tone has changed, my sensitivity has changed, the number of people I've gotten to know, the way that I've seen how things land in their hearts. And I listened to some of those things and I cringe at different moments. I think I'd say it differently now.

I know how that can be misheard. I know how that can be hurtful. It wasn't intended that way, but it can be received that way. But then like what, yeah, what choice do we have, but to speak in the way the best way we can the best way we can, because in 10 years from now you might look back and think the same thing, but I'm glad you're saying things now. Yeah, that's right. You can't wait forever. Yeah. I had someone on locals say recently, like the Lord has used you to fertilize my heart. And he was being nice, but I thought, well,

I'm glad the Lord is putting my bullshit to good use. That's right. That's what you have to trust it. Right? Like Lord take all of it. Yeah. That's right. The thing said well, the thing said wrong though. Yeah. And that, that theme again, you know, what limit does God place on evil? Well, He's greater than all of it. And everything is greater than me, but nothing is greater than God. And so somewhere in between that, I offer the little I have and I can be misused, misheard. There can be problems that I can't handle. There are things I can't take back. Everything in some sense is bigger than me. I don't really have control over much of anything, but nothing is greater than God. And that has to be our hope and our consolation.

What was something you thought, like, did you have an idealized view of becoming a Benedictine monk? And then how was that? What part of that was shattered when you joined? Hmm. I, well, in some sense, I, I, what do I want to say? I certainly had idealized views, but it was all, it was really wrapped into the church as well because I had just been baptized. I was baptized and entered the monastery a year later. I really had a desire. My call was rooted in an encounter with the Lord in prayer that made me want to share the gift of prayer. And so I had this kind of apostolic outlook and this

desire for evangelization. And my monastery as a Benedictine monastery is a bit unique in being as apostolic as we are. It's authentic to us. Our founder came from Germany in 1846 in order to found a monastery to form priests to minister to the needs of German Catholics. That was his vision. He had been a diocesan priest when there was no religious life, when it was suppressed

in Germany for 30 years. And so he always had this very apostolic spirit. And so we've always had a very large, we're the largest Benedictine monastery in the world. And we've always had a lot of apostolates, parishes, foreign missions, the college, the seminary. So anyway. Just real quick though, that's another example of, we have an idea of what something is for.

That's right. And it doesn't mean it was wrong. It just means we can allow the Lord to transcend that. That's right. So he was what, expecting to reach out to German Catholics? Well, yeah. Or German, and I'm sure it did that, but the Lord had more plans.

That's right, yeah. He found in fact, much more than German Catholics had a need for priests and quickly he never had a vision of a college or multiple parishes or anything else. But if he had have stuck to his view, how unfortunate that would have been. And so too with us, with our families now. Yeah. And to further that idea of the monastery he came from in Germany was a much more traditional

kind of cloistered, a lot of silence, prayer, the hours, just a school. When monasteries were reopened in Germany and throughout Europe, they had to do something useful. They weren't allowed to be merely contemplative, which was useless in their view. But anyway, a very minimal amount of activity, which was more kind of traditionally Benedictine. And Boniface Wimmer, our founder, came over with a much more kind of robust vision that then unfolded, as you say, also in ways that were unexpected. So it's formed a kind of Benedictine monasticism.

Also interestingly, he was given care for the parish that had been founded in 1790 under the patronage of St. Vincent de Paul, who was of course very apostolic. St. Vincent de Paul did like everything. You read the history, his biography, and it's like, how does somebody have a time for any of this? I mean, he reformed the clergy, he made the, organized the first outreaches to the poor, he formed an order of sisters, or formed an order of fathers, he redeemed slaves, he transformed the selection of bishops and clergy in France. He like, just goes on and on, reformed seminaries, built seminaries. Started secondhand clothing stores.

That was actually Frederick Ozenham a couple centuries later. Nice job knowing that. So anyway, there was a kind of grace that Boniface Wimmer should land at St. Vincent Parish and then he just took the patronage of someone who doesn't obviously have anything to do with the Benedictines, but we have this very apostolic spirit, St. Vincent Benedictine monasticism. And so anyway, there's a grace of all of that flowing together, holding things with open hands and allowing God to do things that are far greater than we could we could imagine so I

Cut you I kind of cut you off and derail us a little bit But I was asking about was there something as you joined you had an idealized view of Where if not you the monks who joined today like that's got to be tough because like your fantasy What whatever your fantasy is like the way it'll look like being a monk or being married or whatever, as soon as you bring that into reality, you gotta bring yourself. Well, I think part of the conversion is, even this kind of contrast that we're making between,

isn't it better to have 5 million viewers than to spend time with one person? No. I don't know. Right, but we so easily reduce to numbers and we have this kind of flashy, you know, if you could bring about these, all these conversions, that would be amazing.

So one thing that was very eye-opening for me and entering the monastery is the more personalized care. And then the things that don't look flashy from the outside, you come to discover, like, that's where all the beautiful stuff is. Now, the characters that are in a monastery, and at first can seem off-putting, although in some cases you discover there are defenses because there are wounds, and you discover the heart of the person who doesn't look very impressive, but then as they say, the novices look holy and aren't,

the juniors don't look holy and aren't, the seniors don't look holy but are. And so some of that transformation, we have a monk now who has ALS and has lost, I mean, just he's really able to do very little and he's being taken care of by our monks in our infirmary. And another one of our monks who is just a character and he's kind of all over the place,

has turned out to be, have this beautiful kind of nursing heart. And the two of them who will never be seen by anyone in any of our glossy magazines and this kind of thing, there's something so beautiful there. And so the discovering those kinds of things are not what I expected. And there are ways that our monastery is sort of not impressive because we have this and that and the other thing, this character and that character and this person's a little

off and that person's a little difficult and this person and yet there's God is present there and there's real transformation that takes place in individual hearts. Kind of talking about what we're talking about a little bit back to parenting. I think, you know, my parents, well, I think what often happens, I wonder if you agree with this, is that we set up a litmus test for how good a parent will be based on giving my kids what I thought I wasn't given or not allowing them to be exposed to what I was exposed to, that kind of thing. So it might be something like, you know, my, my mom worked, you know, and she

was never around. So as a mother, I'm, I'm going to be there for my kids. And that's, we become very, we're not seeing anything else, but so long as we're there or, um, you know, my parents never came to my sports games. That's what I'm going to do. That becomes the everything. Or I think for me, it was like, I was wounded by pornography at a young age. And so for me, the litmus test is my kids will not see pornography, you know, not realizing that God's bigger than pornography. And if they did and when they do, all will be well. And it's a great poverty and a shame.

But the other thing is, I think which philosopher said this, the idea that we were doomed to make decisions going into the future with the knowledge that we only have of the past. It's like trying to, if it'd be like driving a car and only being able to look in the rear view mirror to guide yourself. And, um, yeah, so it's a bit like that. And then I also think like my dad and my mom used to harp on me a lot about things that don't matter at all because there's no way they could have understood when I was 12 that I would have a podcast on the internet.

Right, right. There's just, there's no way like the, the internet wasn't a word. They didn't have any. So I just, you know, my parents are good people and I love them, but I just kind of wish, you know, if they were just more delighting and more supportive as opposed to kind of critical in certain areas. And then I take that to myself and I just think, I have no idea what my children might be doing or where they might be living or what the world might look like in 15, 20 years. And yet I'm parenting as if it's 1989.

Right, right. Yeah, well again, watering plants, right? Who knows what they're growing up into and who knows what the environment will be like. But if you keep watering the roots, it will make them strong and resilient and they'll be able to handle a lot of things. That's good general advice.

You know, I was thinking of Aliosha from the, from the brothers Karamazov and the way he treated his father, you know, like, do you remember that here? How Fyodor talked about, oh, they said the, or the author says that Fyodor never felt judged by him. Like he'd be having these sexual bouts in the next room where Aliosha who's about to join the monastery is saying, and there was never a time. Now you might say, well, he was too lax and he should have corrected his father and maybe you'd be right, but there was just something about his loving presence of his father that would cut him to the core.

There's a great story from Dorotheus of Gaza talking about an Abbot who was hearing the brothers murmuring about a brother who is having some kind of affair with some had some woman in the monastery and the brothers were all up in arms and and the abbot knew that this brother had had hidden the woman and so he sat on the barrel that she was hiding in and then he said fine then go find her, go look everywhere, go find her. And the brothers scurry about and they of course don't find her. And then they come back and he says, now apologize, stop judging your brother.

And then they walked away. And then the brother who had the woman, he said, now repent. And then he let the woman go. That's like an almost exact replication of, there's no one here judge you, neither do I judge you, no ghosts in there more. That's really cool.

Yeah, it's a beautiful story. Yeah, there's so much there. I mean, loving rather than, again, I love that, you know, love people into letting go, love people into changing. I feel like love is a kind of fuel that it's almost like when the car is on empty and then you yell at it

for going the wrong direction, it's like, well, I can't do anything about it. I don't have any gas. I mean, how do you want me to change direction unless you're willing to love me into life? Now I have some gas. I might take that gas continually in the wrong direction, but now I have a fighting chance to change direction. But if you just judge me, then I'm just stuck and I'm going

to empty out more and more. And again, you know, I mean, we can certainly say things lovingly to people. Even I found I have been most helpfully corrected when a brother has loved me at the same time that he's corrected me, like that story with that abbot. 100%. No, when someone says to me, not just to cut me down, and I had one of the brothers in the monastery bring up a conversation I had had that he had been a part of, and I had made a comment,

and he brought it up at an appropriate time, a week later or something, and said, I wanted to revisit a comment that you made. And then he brought it up and I was like, oh wow, you're calling me to a high degree of charity. And he immediately said, because you can do it. And then I felt like, yeah, and I want to, I sat up straighter and I was set out then

to go in the direction. He believed in me, he believed that I could be better. And then that helped me to be better. And I think that's the kind of fraternal correction admonition that helps people to grow. Yeah. I think one thing, one thing I keep confessing is like nitpicking on my kids. I don't think I'm as bad as a parent. I'm making myself sound like I actually really love much kids. I enjoy them and I love my wife, but maybe I'm worse. But you know, like it's just so easy when you're living with children

whose brains haven't developed, who keep leaving lights on and. Like Peter Fradd, my boy, eight years old, love him. He's the coolest boy. He remembers that two years ago, I said I'd take him to a theme park and haven't yet done that, but doesn't remember me saying, get your socks on. Do not run outside without a jacket. It's cold, you know? But it is easy as parents to kind of fall into just continually say, stop that, like to manage, to control, to, and there's a place for it. It's kind of like, it's kind of like, well, I don't know if this is a good analogy,

but it's like you talk to people who are like, have tried to overcome, say, a cocaine habit or a porn habit. Right. Now people might say different things, but someone, and not just yesterday, I was chatting with somebody who said it was way harder to overcome pornography because unlike cocaine, she has a natural desire for sexual things and is a sexual person and has to act her sexuality out in the world, right? So you're going to act it out properly, which is difficult and maybe more difficult than just not doing something. And with your kids, it's

like, well, you do need to correct them and you do need to guide them and you do need to run an orderly house. So like, then how do you do that without falling into the constant nitpicking kind of thing? It's hard to do. Yeah. No, it's a great challenge. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I just have so much admiration for parents. It's the best, though. I love as my kids have gotten older, I have enjoyed them so much more.

People have different thoughts on this. Some people are like, I love my kids a little and I wish we, and I'm like, are you kidding? I'm so glad we're out of that phase. I love other people's little babies. And I love holding them, but it's so cool. Like the kids like come in and they were just over at a friend's house and they're making a sale and you're just chatting about random things. So you're laughing with them. I really like that. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Let's have a break. Is that cool? Thursday?

You know how to go to the, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We'll do that and we'll come back and then we've got questions from our supporters and we can go wherever else we want to go. Cheers. Hey, if you want to, uh, pray better and you're not great at praying right now, you might need the fantastic number one downloaded Catholic app in existence, Hallow. Hallow.com slash Matt, go check them out over there, click the link in the description below,

because if you sign up over there, you'll actually get, you'll get Hallow for three months free. You'll have access to their entire app, their sleep stories, their novenas, their daily gospels, their everything. Matt, on an unrelated note, I was trying to find somewhere that I could, you know, hear Jonathan Rumi read the Sermon on the Mount

or something like that. Yes, exactly. Do you know anywhere that I could do that? JohnathanRumi, hallo.com, slash Matt. Yep, yep, Jason Everett can read a night story to you. Bobby Angel does stuff. It's Father Mike Schmitz. Yeah, Father Mike Schmitz. It really is a fantastic app.

Here's the thing though, Matt. I don't like I don't want to put all this money into it if I don't know if it's great exactly You're very good at throwing up softballs So if you download the app right now, I think you can like use a couple of features But not many so you can pay for it and it's a reasonable price a month But if you go to hello comm slash Matt Matt again click the link in the description below That does two things number one it lets them know that I sent you making them like me more And I like being liked by them

Second and more importantly for you. You'll get a three month free trial so you can try it for what's that 90 days? And you can decide whether or not you like it And if you don't cancel by the end of that three month free trial and you won't pay a cent, but I use it. My wife uses it. It's really great. I think a really great use case for it too. Just something that I was impressed that it had was like morning prayer. I think that's really good.

Cause it's hard to like read the through the book pieces and things. So I think that's a good way to pray more is to try. Fushy. Next thing I want to talk about is Exodus 90. Exodus 90 is an ascetical program for men where you and a bunch of fellas get together in a confraternity as it were in a small group and for 90 days really live the spiritual life like a champion.

I mean you're praying for an hour every day. You're not eating in between meals. You're not drinking alcohol. You're only taking cold showers. It's a very grueling 90 days, but it's certainly worth it. They did independent research on people who completed Exodus 90. And what they found is that most people

were using their phones and computers far less than when they started. They had better marriages. They had better prayer lives. It's really terrific. And they're starting soon in January. They had better marriages. They had better prayer lives. It's really terrific and They're starting soon in January. So now's the time to begin thinking about it So go to Exodus nine zero dot com slash Matt And they've also got a fantastic app and you can learn more about it over there Exodus 90 dot com slash Matt

Finally, I want to let you guys know about Parla and the fact that I'm over there. Go to parla.com slash, where am I? Matt Fradd if you want, the link is in the description below. I'm always posting the latest videos that we put up over here, over there, and that's a great way to stay in touch with all the work of Pines with Aquinas. It's nonsensorial, you know, they're not going to shadow ban you or any stuff like that. So parla.com slash Matt Fried. Thanks so much.

Okay, here we're back. Is this okay here? How are you? I had my glasses somewhere When I was a kid I faked the eye exam test because I wanted to look cool like my friend Matthew Lamb Who had cool square? Metal framed glasses which I think have come back in style now, but weren't cool at all for a long time So I kind of go through periods where I think, was I just doing this for a fashion thing?

But it's actually gotten to the point where. You need it. I really, really need it. It's so bad. Mr. Reed, all the words shrink together. Okay. I'm nearsighted, so I wear glasses to drive. Oh really? But I often don't want to see things at a distance.

Congregations become blurry out there. I'm probably just as well off. Seeing their faces as you preach. You know, speaking of like idealism and things like that, I mean, how many people, I think the friars of the renewal told me about this when I was discerning them, like how many men just, they get this passionate resolve to love the Lord

and it's a beautiful thing and they wanna just live so radically. And that's beautiful. Actually the brothers talks about this as well. So I don't know who it was. I think it was the author who talked about Aliosha within the first few chapters about his passionate like idealistic heart. I think it was the author who talked about Aliosha within the first few chapters about his passionate,

like idealistic heart. And the point was like, it would be bad if he didn't have that. You ought to have that at that age kind of thing. But I think it was the friars who were telling me about, yeah, that I did, but then- Thank God. I mean, let's have something to strive for.

Let's try. This is kind of how I describe, I try to describe in accessible terms the development of the spiritual life, right? So we, the purgative, illuminative and unitive ways and really the entrance into the purgative way is what Sherry Waddell would call intentional discipleship. So this encounter we were talking about earlier, people get energized and they want to follow the Lord.

And then what do they do? They try really hard and then what will happen? They will fail. And that's great. And so that runs them into the limits of themselves and it delivers them into the arms of the Lord. And that's one way to describe what happens in the night of the senses is we run into our own limits,

what we can actually achieve of our own power. And then we're forced to surrender and trust and embrace our littleness and allow the Lord to carry us. And then that opens into the illuminative way. But the problem is, people don't try is one problem. And then another problem is when people fail, they don't surrender. They justify, blame, lower the standards, give up. So getting people to try is the first step

and then until they fail and then helping them to surrender is sort of a repeated movement in the spiritual life. You know, I just thought about, I've never been terribly athletic, so I've never like cared for people talking about how sports and the spiritual life and things like that, you know, but it's a great point. I mean, sports are like that. It's, it's like you try as best as you can. And when you fail, you shake the person's hand, which in a way is the surrendering, like the acceptance. That's good. Not the flaming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. We have so many questions from our very handsome and attractive local supporters Haven't read them ahead of time, but we'll see

Steven says hi father. I'm quite ignorant to the difference in the various religious orders Could you give a basic overview of the religious orders and their differences? Also, how can I help encourage my daughter and future children to consider the religious life? Great question there are like a thousand religious orders, so it's going to take us a little while to go through. No, it's a great question. There is something that's a bit foundational about monasticism, and in the East, that's the primary order per se. And fundamentally, it's about a radical consecration to Christ. In the West we develop this poverty, chastity, and obedience as kind of the way of the surrender responding

to the Lord's call, if you would be perfect, sell everything, give to the poor, and then come follow me. And so that's the basic structure of religious life. And then each charism, and I like the Second Vatican Council talks about it in terms of the bride is clothed with splendor and the various charisms are kind of like the splendor, the radiance of the bride, and there's a variety of color and beauty and so on. The Benedictines are really fashioned on the acts of the Apostles, the apostolic community, holding everything in common, giving to each according to his need, sharing in the breaking of the bread and the prayers. And that's the sort of structure of communal life that we live together and then have a

focus on God. St. Benedict says in the rule, we know that God's presence is everywhere. And in some way, that's the theme of the whole rule, is orienting the life of the monk to be aware of God's presence everywhere. And he says, we especially should know this when we're praying the Divine Office, the Liturgy of the Hours. And that's really the beating heart of monastic life, is that we gather for the chanting of the Hours, and that's where Gregorian chant comes from and all of those kinds of things.

So being aware of the Divine Presence, living in community, celebrating the Liturgy of the Hours, those are sort of the heart of monasticism. And then we sanctify places. We actually make a vow of stability. And some of the most beautiful and holiest and peaceful places in the world are monasteries and their kind of surrounding lands sanctified by centuries of prayer. And so we have about 650 monks planted up on the hill who have sanctified by their lives that sacred place of St. Vincent. And people

come there and say, it's just so peaceful here. It's so nice. So that's what monks do. Friars are, Franciscans are kind of the opposite. They go out and they don't have a kind of home you might say. Now there are as many Franciscan orders as there are religious orders, it seems. They also seem to have a charism of creating new religious orders. But anyway, St. Francis set out to live as the poor among the poor, to proclaim the gospel in simple ways, and to have this radical imitation of Christ. He imitated Christ beyond anyone else, and every other Franciscan order is sort of taking a slice of Francis' life, his contemplative life, his life of poverty, his life of preaching, his life of gathering

friars together, different dimensions. So the Franciscans had that kind of sense. The Dominicans have a real devotion to preaching and truth, to study and to combating heresies and to proclaiming the faith in clear ways. And then... Painfully clear. Sometimes could be painfully clear. The Jesuits were more fundamentally missionary, but have several aspects of the spiritual

exercises on the one hand and the life of discernment. And those are some aspects of Ignatian spirituality that, like Father Timothy Gallagher and his order, the Oblates of the Virgin Mary specialize in. And then the Jesuits in that discernment have this radical abandonment, availability for the mission that they can thus evangelize such wide swaths of the world and have done incredibly creative things

in proclaiming the gospel throughout the centuries. Anyway, we could go on and on about lots of different orders. I think exposure to religious is a big deal, and it just helps so much to see for our Stephen's daughter, a sister in habit, a nun in habit, to see the sign that they bear in the religious habit, to see them together in prayer, to see them in action perhaps. And there's some beautiful documentaries and things online, but if there are sisters nearby, there's no substitute for getting to know religious. And then seeing what develops from there. So you in spiritual direction,

were talking to me about the importance of structured prayer. And I wanted to give you an opportunity to share that, because I think it'll be a real blessing to folks. I have shared this on a previous show that, Father Jason is working with me on praying the Eastern hours and right now I'm just doing one or two a day. And I wrote to him about a week and a week or two in, and I'm like, I know I shouldn't find this inhibitive. I know I'm saying the thing that the Protestants accuse the Catholics of because they want to be more spontaneous, but darn it, that's how I feel.

that the Protestants accused the Catholics of, because they want to be more spontaneous, but darn it, that's how I feel. And his line was so excellent. His text messages, someone's, I got to cut and paste these in one day. These will be, people will be reading them. They're so excellent. He said something like,

I know that to be a disciple means to be disciplined and structured prayer is the bit in the horse's mouth that turns a, you know, a roaming donkey into a Mustang ready for battle. It was like, it was excellent. It was so good. And I wrote back and I'm like, you're going to need a hundred more of these inspirational quotes for the next hundred times.

I'm going to want to quit this. But you talked about how some prayers are like prayers of battle as a, and we kind of contrasted that with maybe what Lexio Divina does, but could you share that with those who maybe don't yet have a structured prayer life and why they might want to adopt one? Yeah, I, Are you afraid to give specific advice? No, no, I was, no, I don't mind that. I was debating in my mind whether to, to say this,

I got this a little bit from my understanding and I'm treading sensitively because I know that there are people with strong feelings and stakes in this, so please feel free to nuance and I'll surrender immediately. But roughly speaking, well, how do we worship? Like what are we gonna do? You know, you can place incense

on the coal, that's a gesture. We can use words, we can use actions. What else are we going to use to worship? Okay, so if we're going to use words, what words are we going to use to worship? Well, how about God's words? I mean, that seems like a good choice of words if we're going to use words to worship. And so that proclamation of God's words as a way of worshiping Him, and worship, worth-ship, He is the highest worth, He alone is worthy, He is the greatest value, and so we place Him above all else. And then how else can we do that except take time to use His words to worship Him? So there's just something very fundamental about that.

And I think that's the sensitive part. None of that is sensitive. The sensitive part is, I think that's how words were used, like in the traditional Latin Mass and the 62 missile, as they're proclaimed to the altar, they're really offered as a sacrifice. We offer the readings, the scriptures, as a sacrifice. Or, pointing toward the north, the Gospel is proclaimed to the Gentiles in the north, you know, and so it's like a weapon. And we're throwing words out there. We're using God's words and their power to proclaim them. And so there's an aspect of worship in all of that. My understanding is part of the shift in the new rite of mass is that the words are used for the sake of encounter in the liturgy of the word in the Novus Ordo,

and so proclaimed in the vernacular with clarity, facing the congregation with times of intentional silence. I think you can gather this together from the general instruction on the Roman missile and the general introduction to the lectionary and among other places, and the council itself. But anyway, the words are used in that case for the sake of encounter. And that's really what we're doing in Lectio Divina as well. We're entering into the Word. We're allowing God's Word to speak to my heart so that I can encounter Him. And that's beautiful.

I do that every day and I promote it and teach it. But there's also a place to use words for worship, and that's really what's happening in the divine office. That's what's happening in the traditional mass that scriptures are used at the beginning for the sake of worship, to tell God that He is worthy. He's worth my time, He's worth my words, He's worth my breath, and what better words can I use

than His own words to proclaim back to him, to show him I learned it. It's a little like your son. Look, Dad, I'm reading the Summa. Look, Dad, I'm reading the Gospel of John. Look, Dad, I'm reading what your son did. Look, Dad, I'm reading the mysteries of salvation over time and the ways that you loved our people.

Look at me. Let me read this back to you. And so we worship him, we honor him, we praise and glorify him in doing that. And so it's an act, sometimes people get undermined in praying the liturgy of the hours because they think they're supposed to be having an encounter each time.

That's right. Like I'm supposed to be getting something out of it. What's the point of just saying words? Well, worship is the point of saying words. We say words for the sake of worship. Now, sometimes I also have an encounter and there is something beautiful. The words resonate with me. I pray, my heart is not proud nor haughty my eyes. I shall not go after things too great, nor marvels beyond me like a weaned child on its mother's breast, even so is my soul. Israel, hope in the Lord, now and forever." That's the entirety of Psalm 131. You know, sometimes I have an

encounter and I feel like a weaned child on its mother's breast. I feel held and loved and I'm convicted of my pride. I have gone after things too great and marvels beyond me, but I don't want to, Lord. I want you to be enough for me. That's a beautiful personal experience. But when you read six Psalms in a row, or. I want you to be enough for me." That's a beautiful personal experience. But when you read six Psalms in a row, you're not going to have that experience with every line. But saying the words and giving them back to God and proclaiming them is worship. It's worth it.

He's worth it. That was so helpful to hear that because I think not having that explained to me, you just assume that any Bible reading is all about that kind of encounter. And when you're not having that, you think, well, isn't this just kind of vain repetition or wasting time? And but I do love that idea of like waking up, lighting my candles, buy my icons before I check my phone, before I make my coffee and saying these things.

That's and you said something to me about like, what would this do to you or what would this do to any of us if we did this daily for like decades of our lives? You know? Yeah. What do we become when we take this up? You know, so it's, it's sort of like the nutrition question. If you keep eating this thing, what will it do to your body? If you keep doing this practice, what will it do to your soul? Yeah, Father, Bishop Robert Barron has put together the Liturgy of the Hours in book form. And just like we have with the Magnificat or something,

but so in a monthly sort of disposable. So rather than having to use the ribbons and not know what you're really doing. Or have to use technology. Exactly, it's all laid out in beautiful books. I don't know where he sells them, but that would be something that people could check out if they wanted to. Do you mind looking that up? Yeah, Word on Fire.

Yeah. Word on Fire sells those. I have one of my directives. It's a regular subscription. Yeah, that could be something that people do. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful practice. And I think to integrate into families, we were talking about family prayer earlier with the rosary. I've encouraged a lot of married couples to pray night prayer together. It's a really, you know, it's like eight minutes, not that everything's about time, but it's

not too much. It's not too little. If you have a little more energy, you can like share some prayer intentions. You can talk about the day, you know, with your spouse. Is that what you do? Yeah. Yeah. And if you find the link to that, can you just put that in the description?

Um, Thursday, that way people can check it out. Sorry. It would also be a good opportunity to do a tie in for hello. I've always thought as a doing Liturgy of the Hours, you always had to like flip back and forth. That's a good point. Yeah. So how do they have liturgy hours on hello?

Sweet. I should know that So I loved like honestly and I'm not we have we've fell away from this I'll be honest But you know Bob shoots not father Bob shoots Bob shoots suggests to pray for your spouse every day like this And it's so good because it's so easy. It's so quick I think one of the things that prevents us from praying is a preconceived idea of what praying looks like and how it should feel. And then when it doesn't look like that or feel like that, you think you're failing.

And since you don't like failing, you quit that thing because it makes you feel bad inside. Yeah. I mean, that's that's why I don't do things regularly. Anyway, so he's like, OK, when you pray this spouse, when you do this, thank God for this person. Say a little prayer for them, like whatever they're struggling with. And then the other person does the same thing.

I Lord, I thank you for Matt. The blessing is my family. Please help him with this and that. And then we pray in our father together. Super simple. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, we haven't done that in months. But now I've said it. I'm going to shame myself back into it. There it is.

Yeah. Do you recommend bringing little children to monasteries? Could bringing young active children be more chaotic for a monastery than good? Depends on which monk you ask. I bet. Yeah, that's a, I think it is important to respect

the prayer. Our prayer takes place in a big basilica and I think to be near the prayer, you know, to bring into the body of the basilica, especially if it's a child that really can't sit still. I think sort of trying to force children to behave in certain ways is always, I don't know, dubious value. But you know, to bring them into the church and you hear the monks chanting, and you know, maybe one of the parents can sit. We allow, we have some guest seats in choir, so some, one of the parents can join us in choir while the other one is around with the baby or the two-year-old or whatever, or some of the older children who can sit still long enough. Yeah, I think bringing

distraction into the choir would not be something I would advise, but having that nearby as you would in church, I think is beautiful. Anthony says, hi father, I struggle greatly with the concept of a personal God as ours is. What is your advice for people seeking a deeper relationship with God, but are buckling under the weight of God's silence during prayer and suffering? Well, God bless you.

What a beautiful question and thanks for asking that. That's a, that is a weight. There is a suffering there. And I think a lot of different things go into that, but it's, it's one of the places that I think accompaniment is really valuable. In some way it may be a need to, for our God image to be transformed a bit. We may be seeking a God or trying to reach a God or connect with a God who is not quite our God. And how do we experience that? God's normal way of revealing himself is through faces and hearts and voices in people. And then we get conditioned, we enter into a relationship, we develop certain expectations around the perfection

of love, which is what God is, He is love. So I guess I would say, you know, having a relationship with somebody who can accompany you in some way would be a good place to go. And then just humbly entering in and maybe something like Psalm 139 is a beautiful Psalm or maybe just the words of Jesus in Matthew 11, 25 to 30, where he exalts in children

and the way they receive the word and encouraging us to be childlike, not trying to hide that. Sometimes we're also posturing, trying to become something else to impress him because that's what we had to do to get our dad's attention, for example. So being humble and opening our hearts and saying,

I don't know you and I'm struggling, but I want to know you, just being honest about that. Those are some things. But also we really need to plug into relationships. The quest for God is not just a solo thing out there. Something like an Alpha course or Christ Life, or these are ways of exploring faith, philosophy, together with people.

And actually you could look at Alpha online and they have local places that an Alpha course is offered. It'd be a great thing to join into. That's a few thoughts. It's a very beautiful question, beautiful because it's honest. This person says, what can I do when while praying my mind is delivering me indecent images, gross images I seen on, I seen or even mixing it

all together in even more grotesque new ways or even blasphemic. I am already praying and asking for help, but the more I try to flee from them while praying, I acknowledge them so they keep hitting even harder. Thank you very much. May God bless you. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Very beautiful. Honest. Yeah. It's a challenge to have those things. There's a, you know,

a purification of those images coming from somewhere. There's a purification of the heart that, that the Lord wants to do. I found the image of, you know of these things being like a bird, let it fly overhead. We don't need to track it. We don't need to fight it. We don't need to shoot it down. Just let it go. Or it's like there are a lot of trains that come into the station. We don't need to get on them. We can let them pass through the station. So also not turning in on ourselves, like I must be bad if these images are coming up. This is not something that I'm doing, it's just coming. A lot of the saints, I mean, St. Anthony of the desert

was tortured with these kinds of things, so it's not even a sign that you're not a saint now, that some of this stuff is coming up. A lot of times things do bubble up from our fears and from deeper places and that's a way of opening it up and becoming more vulnerable. Just looking to the Lord with open hands and trying to focus our attention through the images on His loving face and on His tender heart. These kinds of things are helpful uh, the point of focusing more attention on them gives

them more of a grip is, uh, isn't helpful too, to realize that God isn't what we might think of when we think of like the pious church lady. Uh, and I'm not taking a shot at pious church ladies. They're holding the world together, but I mean, we have this kind of puritanical maybe view of God as if God somehow scandalized or was unaware that we would one day think this or doesn't maybe if you're thinking of sexual things that God somehow like, isn't it nice to realize that? I mean, maybe, maybe we need to kind of correct what I'm saying here, but God isn't shocked by us. It's not scandalized by what comes to us. And so we can just offer that

to the Lord gently and you know, or yeah. All right. How does the culture view sin? I think they acknowledge good and bad behavior, but not sinful behavior. To acknowledge something is sinful, then that means there is a God. This came to me in contemplation. And I think it's something we should talk about more. Thoughts? I guess distinguishing bad behavior from sin.

So there's a right and a wrong, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, it's true. Morality is one of the things that directs us into religion. Where does good and bad, where does right and wrong, good and evil, who defines that and where did they come from? There is a quest one can take into the existence of God and then asking, discovering what that is and discovering that in our nature. That's really true.

I think the problem in talking about sin using the word is a manifold, I suppose. One is that it's been used as a weapon so much that we beat people over the head with sinner, you're a sinner, and that's sin, and it can have such a harsh, a grating quality to it that really gets so wrapped up in pride and judgment that it gets even tainted, and it's what it is when it's communicated. And then I also think that within sin, so I think there are a lot of things that are due to weakness, which are not sort of intentionally willed as much, or the will is greatly weakened,

and then we get caught up in behaviors and addiction is the kind of obvious example of this, that we get caught up in addictive behaviors that are not willfully sinful. I love to illustrate that point, you know, one of the Chinese martyrs, St. Mark Tiancheng, was an opium addict. He had been a medical doctor, had a surgery, used opium for pain relief, became addicted to opium, actually got excommunicated by the parish priest after he had confessed it so many times. And the priest said, if you're still doing this, you're not

repentant and I can't forgive you. In the sacrament of confession. So he remained outside of the Eucharist the rest of his life. During the Boxer Rebellion So he remained outside of the Eucharist the rest of his life. During the Boxer Rebellion, he rejoiced that he was arrested and could be martyred and entered into martyrdom with a demonstration of holiness and as a canonized saint. He was an addict to the point of his martyrdom. So one may do objectively wrong things and not be sinful is the point of his martyrdom. So, one may do objectively wrong things and not be sinful, is the point. So, even the word sin, I think it's misapplied to weakness in some cases. The only one

who knows sin is God himself, who is the only one who can judge our hearts and the capacity of our will. But to acknowledge that there is right behavior and wrong behavior, that there is good and evil, that there is a moral standard certainly is an important thing. And I do think in some cases the accommodation of weakness has turned into a blurring of those lines. In other cases, we overreact against that, I guess. I'm currently reading your book on personal prayer, Father, says Cameron Williams. I have your book on St. Joseph coming too, and I just want to know if you have any tips

for me as I read it. Well thanks. I hope as personal prayer expresses at the end of the introduction, the only way to learn to pray is by praying. So I hope that it's accompanied with prayer. And I hope that it leads people into prayer. That's one of the highest compliments I have received is people saying that as they read it they really are moved to pray and read it slowly and savor it. So I hope those are the case.

And the St. Joseph book I intended in the same way, not just to talk about St. Joseph, but really to help people develop a relationship with St. Joseph. So I hope that's also accompanied by a simple prayer to St. Joseph to say, I want to know you and I want to know you as a spiritual father, and I want to grow in holiness and be more like your son. I got a question here about your beard. But before I get to that, didn't you want to mention a conference you've got coming up soon?

Well, I'm also speaking at the Encounter Conference during the Christmas Octave. So I certainly warmly recommend Encounter Ministries, encounterministries.us, something like that. If you look up the encounter conference, I'm pretty sure it's the top hit on that. Okay.

And then I'm doing some retreats and things out in Wichita, Kansas, and I should have that information at the top of my head. I was, uh, well anyway, but that's going to be, that's going to be in February. So, uh, well, I don't know if you think of it, let us know. I will at least share it on social media. I will. And I'll post it my website, fatherboniface.org. Spell out father.

And then the, fatherboniface.org. And then we have a website for the Institute for Ministry Formation, which is the apostolate that I'm a director of. And we have programs in spiritual direction and we do outreach in various ways. And so that's IMF.StVincentSeminary.edu to spell out everything except IMF obviously. So that reminds me of a joke from Norm MacDonald. He says how identification the I stands for I and the D stands for dentification.

It's like D's doing most of the work here. All right, Samuel. Samuel says, how long did it take to grow that beard? And how do you care for it? Did you join the monastery and decide to grow a beard or we grow the beard? So Boniface Wimmer, whom I've mentioned, had a great beard. Didn't he?

And when he was blessed. How great is that? By Pius, better in many ways. I'm gonna look it up. I can't compete with Boniface Wimmer. He has this very robust beard, he's a very robust guy. But when he was blessed by Pius IX as abbot, Pius IX said,

"'Long live Boniface Wimmer and his magnificent beard.'" He said that. So he- It's a good beard, but I wouldn't say it's better than yours. It's thicker. Like it's like a, it juts out. With different pictures, it's different lengths.

Ah, well that's a good point. There's a bit going on there, but anyway, he has a great beard. And so I did not join the monastery with a beard. I grew it after I entered the monastery, about my third year. I grew it out for Lent a couple of years in a row, and then my third year in the monastery,

I just didn't shave for Easter. And here it is still. Have you inspired others, like when they join, like I guess this is part of the dress? I think there's a kind of zeal. Men like to explore facial hair and beards and things like that. So we have a number of monks who have nice beards.

It's so cool. Yeah. I wasn't the first by any means. There were other monks when I joined who had substantial beards. And many of our monks have beards, which is not necessarily normal for Benedictines. Benedictine images are a lot of times clean-shaven.

But it was a, it's in the 1917 code of canon law that clerics are not permitted to wear beards. And uh, why? Well, that's, my moral theology professor says that it goes back to grabbing beards in fights and councils. So I don't know. You might have to look that one up. I can't verify that. I never looked it up, but. Do you have to brush it a lot?

Just once in the morning, I brush it. Yeah. I guess if I didn't, it would start to get nappy and- I don't know a lot about beards. So if you just live for another 30 years without touching it, how much longer will it get? So it really is maxed out. It maxed out after about beards. So if you just live for another 30 years without touching it, how much longer will it get? So it really is maxed out. It maxed out after about a year. So this is mostly how long it was after a year.

Isn't that funny that the hair is like, no, we're good now. Isn't that weird? Why does it do that? Yeah, hair is interesting. If you cut your, trimmed your beard, it would start growing again. So what do your hair molecules, hair follicles know? Is there something that has a weight on the hair follicles. So what if you tie it up? Maybe you'll trick it. That's a good question. It certainly, it breaks off and it falls out. And if I care for it more,

like shampoo, conditioner, that kind of thing, it gets a little bit fuller. You know, this is if, if the, if the, if the monastery of which you're a part needs to start making money, you could be the poster boy for like beard balm and beard, beard combs. Welcome. No. All right. What do we got here? I'm currently using father Boniface's books as Andrew Hartigan through the heart of St.

Joseph to study St. Joseph's virtues so I can be a holier and better man for my girlfriend. Great. Lucky girlfriend. Lucky you. Does father have any insight he can give me into St. Joseph that is not in the book specifically in the way St. Joseph would have loved the Virgin Mary both practically and reverently so I can try to imitate in my relationship with my beloved. I don't know about not in the book.

I do talk a little bit about that in the book in terms of, I think I do. I talk about St. Joseph quite a bit, so maybe I've developed that outside. But I really love the, there's some paragraphs in the Catechism on chastity that it says, chastity blossoms in friendship. And I love to think of St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse, in terms of that friendship that's very warm and very human and very reverent towards the heart of Mary. So I think those kinds of things, I think he must have also really listened to her because he had great respect for her.

I think men would do well to reverence and respect women and listen to them and really learn from her. I think that kind of quality of affirmation that we were describing earlier about delighting in someone's being at that level, like not using or reducing people to qualities, but rather rejoicing that the person exists. And I think St. Joseph loving Our Lady that way. I love, Pope Francis actually said, when St. Joseph was thinking about separating himself from Mary,

he said, she was the greatest treasure of his life. Separating himself from her would have been like an Abrahamic sacrifice, like Abraham sacrificing Isaac. I love that. So I think that's the kind of tender devotion, commitment and treasure that he found in her. And I think that's a good model for a man towards his wife in particular. I guess girlfriend is still dating, but we should still reverence, you know, removing our sandals before the sacred ground of the other, really discovering the sacred otherness. And, you know, the difference between men and women, right, is amazing. Tell me about it because I know you've

studied it. I'm sure you've done a deep dive into like neurology and whatever else. Well, there's a great book called Taking Sex Differences Seriously. And it goes into a lot of these things that are like, you know, pre-cultural. I mean, infants, so the, you know, little boys are attracted to moving objects like mobiles, little girls are attracted to faces, you know. And these things that are not absolute, you know,

but it's tendencies. And just fascinating differences between the feminine mind and heart and the masculine mind and heart and beautiful differences, complementarities. And so we should have a real reverence. Like I don't understand her unless she reveals herself to me. We should come in with that attitude. I don't know who this woman is until she reveals herself to me and she's not going to do that unless she really trusts me. And then I need to be really trustworthy. And then I can discover something, someone amazing.

Yeah. I mean, as a father and all parents would agree with this, like none of your children are alike. Well, if that's true, if none of the children on the earth are alike, then maybe we should stop quickly categorizing people by how they look or who they remind us of. We so often, I think, prevent people from, what would you say, kind of mystifying us or surprising us because we've got them figured out already? Yeah, no, it's really true. That in strength finders, you know,

the strength of individualization is, some people are really good at getting those differences and observing those differences and appreciating that individual nature of every person. St. Teresa of Avila said, it won't be an exact quote, but something like, there's more difference between souls than between faces. There's radically more difference between souls than between faces, something like that. And just to see that radical uniqueness, which has embodied

itself in various humans, you know, faces and bodies., but, uh, yeah, so much different, fascinating. One thing I love about you is that you are accurate in your quotes and not everyone's like that. Like my wife never lets the facts get in the way of a good story. She'll tell us stories about things that happened to us three years ago. And I'm thinking, I don't think any of that's true, you know, but it doesn't matter. And no one wants me to step in and correct her because they're loving the story. But when she quotes things, I'm like, I take everything. She's just like that with the granite salt.

But I've noticed that when you'll quote something like you did, you quoted St. Benedict on the alcohol thing. And I didn't know you. So I'm like, oh, maybe you said that. I looked it up. It was like word for word. And so now when you, and then something else happened and I looked it up and it was exactly the same. So like, I appreciate, I really appreciate that in you. What was that line from St. Benedict? Cause I love it so much about the brothers can't be convinced of this. Yeah. Yeah. So we hear that monks should not drink wine, but since the monks of our day

cannot be convinced of this, let us at least agree to drink moderately. We think that a hemena of wine should suffice. What is that? Well, that's a good question. That's what the monks can't agree on either. Yeah, that's right. It's a measurement potentially lost to history. Intentionally by Benedictine monk. Yeah. Although somebody told me if you look up hemen Hemina Wikipedia immediately tells you it's Hemina

H-E-M-I-N-A Wikipedia gives you a value so Oh Thursday you look it up Sorry, spell it again. Hemina H-E-M-I-N-A. Yep Half a sextery, I don't know that is British English an ancient liquid measure equal to about half a pint. That doesn't seem like enough wine. A day.

You can edit Wikipedia, right? Could we edit it and then share it with you as a period? That's not Wikipedia. You can't, you can't, um, oh that's not something else. Well, also you can't edit Wikipedia anymore, but that is a totally different topic You have to be approved to edit because too many people were putting in things that that feels about right though were Inconvenient Wikipedia is actually gonna depend on authority now

Well, I mean remember that line from Michael Scott He talks about Wikipedia and it's great because anybody in the world can say it so you know you're getting the most reliable- Anybody in the world can edit it so you know you're getting the most reliable information. Or say whatever they want. That's what it is. Remember when Michael Scott wanted to get the guys from YouTube down to film some of this?

He said? Oh yes. Something's going on. He's like, we gotta get the people from YouTube down to film this. this, he said. Oh, yeah. He's like, we got to get, we got to get the people from YouTube down to film this. As if that's how YouTube worked. There were so many great lines. What was your favorite TV show growing up or in college years? Oh, wow. That's a good question.

TV has gotten so much better. I mean, there's a lot of junk, but when it's good, it's so much better than it was. Yeah. What did I ever watch? I think so. has gotten so much better. I mean, there's a lot of junk, but when it's good, it's so much better than it was. Yeah. That's true. What did I ever watch? I think so. I think that's true. It's been so long since I watched TV.

Well, see when you... So I'm not letting you finish your answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. I got a new idea. But why you think about it? Columbo. Columbo is a great TV show. But TV shows from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s weren't meant to binge.

Maybe the 90s were, but like, you know, so like you try to watch, you watch one Colombo episode. You know Colombo, you watched it. It's great. You know, it's about how figuring out who did it, you know, because you see the murder right at the beginning, unlike many other mysteries. And Colombo, incidentally, was written as the opposite of the classic detective guy from England. So rather than being put together, he's a slob rather than smoking a cigar. He a pipe. He would smoke a cigar.

Nice. Why am I saying this? Oh, because you watch one Colombo episode, there's a format to it, right? There's a structure. And if you watch that once a week, it wouldn't get annoying. But if you try to watch like five in a row, you're like, oh gosh, that's so formulaic. That's interesting. Yeah. Um, I watched, I don't know.

Well, so this is pre-conversion to high school and college is before I believed in God, you I watched, I don't know. So this is pre-conversion too, it's high school and college, is before I believed in God. So I watched things like Seinfeld and Friends. Would you not watch that now? As a cultural artifact, I suppose. Seinfeld has interesting tableaus,

there are templates that capture certain kinds of interactions and ideas. And when I watch Seinfeld and Friends, I feel sad. Yeah, especially. Yeah, I think Friends has some very intelligent bits in it. I think one of the best episodes they did was when no one was ready for Ross's event and the entire show took place in the one room of Monica and Rachel's apartment. That's an excellent, that was an excellently written episode, but it's not as kind of philosophical. And as you talked about the kind of taboos that Seinfeld, like Seinfeld's really good, but I'm watching it. I'm like, this, this was the undoing of

my culture. Like the whole like promotion of the sexual revolution that's destroying us all. Yeah. That it's like you watch something like, oh, that's when they thought this was a good idea. And now here we are. Thanks, Seinfeld. So it's hard for me to watch it without actually feeling sad. Yeah, same.

The greatest television show of all time is MASH. Is it really? Yeah. Really? I'm 100% sure of this. How old are you? 23. And you actually think MASH is a good show?

No, I think it's the greatest show. Yeah, I'm not kidding. No, I believe you. I just I'm impressed, I guess, because I would think that that's TV has changed so much that to try to appreciate that wouldn't be an easy thing. I think it well, so you can about just the the cultural impact it had. Like this is a really fun fact, trivia fact. Sixty percent of American televisions were watching the series finale of MASH.

Wow. What about Seinfeld, which was, I don't know, unfortunately, a very disappointing last episode. It is to this day, the most watched television event in American history that is not a sports event. Really? It's only been surpassed by some Super Bowls. When did you get into MASH? We didn't have cable growing up, and so when I grew out of cartoons the only thing to watch was old TV. Yeah.

And so I would normally finish my homework around the time that MASH would come on on the old TV channel, and I'd watch M mash every night with my parents Yeah, yeah That's nice. I Wonder if I could enjoy it. I don't know. I've been enjoying Like the only movies that I kind of enjoy these days are The Coen brothers are brilliant. Hmm when you start to a like I I don't really appreciate movies and that's why I don't watch them. But as I've started to try to understand why people like them, I'm beginning to appreciate

them. Like I just watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood by Quentin Tarantino the other day. You ever watch any Quentin Tarantino stuff? I mean, a lot of his stuff is sort of like, what would you call it? Like atheistic and there's sexual elements in it, which I can't do because of my history. I can't know whenever I watch a movie. The first thing I do is type in family review and there's any sex in it. I just don't. I cannot watch it. Um, once upon a time in Hollywood definitely had a couple of sexual elements, but it wasn't, it wasn't even too

much for me, which means it's probably not too much for most people. Wow, exactly. But it was excellent. It was a really well written movie. You watch it. I'm not I'm not offering a blanket endorsement to that movie. People can research it themselves. But what about movies? Do you watch movies in the monastery? Do you have a TV?

I not in my room. Good. I would have lost a lot of respect. I'm not going to lie. I got this in my room. Good. I would have lost a lot of respect. I'm not gonna lie. I have this big flat screen. I do have a computer, so. Well, yeah. So, provides all of that. You know, I recently watched a movie,

it was an Apple TV movie, I guess, called Coda. Okay. Children of Deaf Adults. Okay. It is so sweet. It's really so touching. So it's a girl who can hear, but both of her parents are deaf and her brother's deaf. And so it's this whole drama and she sings.

So that's like the talent that she discovers is the ability to sing, which of course her parents can't begin to appreciate. And there's this just beautiful drama that unfolds. It's so heart wrenching. So it's not a documentary. It's a no, no, it's a dramatized. I'm not even I don't think it's a true story even. Yeah, per se. But it's a yeah, that's beautiful.

Did it? I find it difficult to watch TV shows today because I usually get smacked upside the head by some woke propaganda. Like, what was that? There was a soccer movie on Apple soccer show. Ted, Ted Lasso, Ted Lasso. It's like, oh, wow, this is really cool. And then it just became like worse than a whorehouse and full of debauchery.

So awful. Crap. Did it really? Remember that night they allorehouse and full of debauchery. It's awful. It's crap. Did it really? Remember that night they all went out and fornicated and pretended they were fulfilled because of it and we all laughed. It was awful. I didn't, I haven't seen. Men act like pimps, women act like whores.

It was awful. The whole thing. And then he referred to God as she. It was just like, it was like, I'll go, here we go. Now you're preaching at us. They got us hooked. And then like woke TV and woke movies are as off putting as really on the nose Christian movies and TV. And we like, you know, interested in the story or the story is just a way to get

you in so they can preach at you. And a lot of shows feel like that today. Coda one, uh, best picture, best supporting actor and best adapted screenplay. Wow. So you go. Best picture best supporting actor and best adapted screenplay Wow So you go Do you ever watch Chernobyl? No, I'll watch that. Did you watch Chernobyl? That was amazing It was about a nuclear meltdown in Chernobyl in Ukraine, right Ukraine. I think It was

Phenomenal It was phenomenal. Maybe it was Russia at one point. I don't know. Here we go. Ready? It was the Ukrainian SSR. So it was the it was. Watch that show.

Watch that show. It's like, you know what I love is when it's like eight episodes. We're not going to drag this on for 18 seasons. Eight episodes. You can, that was so powerful. In fact, I might watch that with Liam if he's up for it. It was a very powerful movie. Yeah.

It's eight episodes. It's about that. Yeah. Thursday or correct us. Five. Five episodes. Even better. That's not bad. It won an Emmy. It was so good.

But I hear, is this boring you this conversation? I'm aware that we've moved from like deep things to television, but. I just don't live in this space as much. I hear the Lord of the Rings, what didn't they get? What's the stupid show? They got picked up for a second season, but this is gonna make you feel so good, Matt.

Hold on, let me make sure the camera's on you. I wanna see your face, wanna say that? they will have an all-female directing and production team oh god it's like they're just doubling down like how can we make this woke and awful are all the women disabled I hope so Nobody? It's just why are they doing this? Yeah. Yeah. The sort of reverse.

I mean, I'm as strong as the next guy in appreciating difference. Like, haven't we talked about that multiple times in the past two hours? Like, how beautiful all the differences. And something like this coda, it just so beautifully illustrates these deaf adults and the struggles that are there, but the beauty that's there.

There's something additional that's there. But why do we have to force these things? And anyway, I appreciate too, I mean, when there's a certain amount of discrimination, then you need to overcome with a little bit of an equal and opposite reaction in order to make a space for, and I appreciate all of that. Why not just have the best writers and the best directors?

Like, why do they have to be women? Be like, if you. Yeah. You don't answer. That's right. I'm going to. I still have video games, father. Let's do that. World of Warcraft. Played that in college. Warcraft one. Yeah.

That would be insufferable to play these days given how... I think so. Yeah. I mean, we had... Gosh, what were they? I mean, IBMs. We were actually running Linux. We were early, actually, BSD Unix.

It was sort of even right before Linux came out. We were computer science students. There were four of us in an apartment. We wired up a local area network and played interactively. It was, that was pretty fun. So yeah, I, video games get short shrift, but I haven't delved into this space as much as myself, but I'm promoting it for those who can.

I mean, it's a bigger space than the movie space. The highest grossing video games, way outranked the highest grossing movies. And there are a ton of people that are in the video game space. They're all promoting metaphysics because they all have their own worlds and their own way of operating.

They're all promoting their own philosophies, their own ethics. And many Catholics have just abandoned them to whatever, the world, the secular culture. And so, so many people are appreciating, you know, it's like an interactive movie, a lot of them, or these interactive games where you meet people all over the world, you know, it's like an interactive movie, a lot of them, or these interactive games where you meet people all over the world,

you play against them in the ways, like you said, you try, you fail, you shake hands at the end, and you know, and you can grow. Sportsmanship is, it can be a great virtue for people to grow in. But we've sort of, because video games, many of the older people think of video games as like space invaders

and it seems like a useless waste of time and they don't understand what video games have become, then it's really underappreciated. And I think there's a tremendous amount of opportunity for evangelization, for connection, for bringing the gospel into those spaces. That answers the kind of pushback I was about to offer you because, you know, just because everybody's in that space, does that mean Catholics need to get there as well? Like, would you say that about TikTok? Have you, are you familiar with TikTok? Yeah. But then you, you kind of answered that though, by saying, well, it's not like space and space

invaders may be somewhat of a waste of time. TikTok seems to be that way. Like, would you want Catholics to be flooding into TikTok to evangelize since everybody's there? Well, no, but I think the analogy is more the movie space. So we love movies that are well done and explicitly Catholic, you know, something like the chosen series or, you know, there's that animated space or well done and implicitly Catholic, like the Lord of the Rings that has a Catholic worldview and Catholic archetypes and Catholic adventure and Catholic ethics, Catholic metaphysics. So I think more in that analogy,

there is a space that is rich and meaningful. And then there are opportunities for real encounters. So TikTok, I don't think offers opportunities for real encounter. So we have our department head at St. Vincent College, Bill Birmingham, had been a research level tenured professor at the University of Michigan, but came to St. Vincent because of his Catholic faith. And he helps to run a video game company. So he's one of the guys that woke me up

to the opportunity that's there. And he said, he knows a young man who in that space was able to encounter somebody who could, he was thinking about joining the Coast Guard or something like that, but he met somebody there online who had done that and was able to give him an honest appraisal of that. So that young man's father had told him the same things that he heard from this guy online, but he listens to the guy online. So there's an opportunity for positive encounters.

I'm playing a game right now called Detroit Become Human. Have you heard of this? No. You would die. I'm playing a game right now called Detroit become human. Have you heard of this? You this you would Here's what it's about Detroit become human is a 2018 adventure video game. The plot follows three androids Cara who escapes her owner to explore her newfound sentience and protect a young girl Connor whose job is to hunt down sentient

androids and Marcus who devotes himself to releasing other androids from servitude. So it's about these robots who are becoming sentient. It's interesting, really, really powerful. So, you know, in one way I'm surprised when you said that the highest grossing video games are out grossing these movies. But in another way, when I see just how sophisticated and well-produced these video games are, it doesn't surprise me. Yeah. So the best selling game of all time. Do you want to guess? Oh yeah, I can do that. I bet I could guess it. Okay. Yes. I'm getting fact-checked.

I would think it would probably be well, so it wouldn't be Space Invaders because that wasn't on personal stations at that point sold the most copies sold the most copies i don't know like it's like mario or or is it something more new is it a relative do you want me to give you a decade yeah 2010s oh um uh medal of honor no minecraft oh uh it sold 238 million Minecraft oh It sold 238 million copies Wow Minecraft sells for $25 a copy Meaning that it has made 5.9 billion dollars I don't remember if I saw this somewhere if my brain is making it up, but something about like

it's at least in the top three of most like single pieces of media that have had the most time put towards them. So people have spent probably the most time on that as a single piece of art versus like in everything. So do you think Catholics are wrong to too quickly demonize these games? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the influence, you're influencing 238 million people with Minecraft. Do you mind if I smoke my pot? No, go ahead.

I don't actually know Minecraft well enough to say, you know, what's the, what are the metaphysics? What are the ethics? What are the goals? What are the, you know, what are the relationships? What are the values? What are the ideals? What are the you know, what are the relationships? What are the values? What are the ideals that are there? What's being promoted in that space that people are soaking in implicitly?

well, it's it's Procedurally generated which just means every time you load in a new world the computer randomizes it based on certain The program that tells the world how to build so every world is different you can play The program that tells the world how to build so every world is different you can play With friends or by yourself, but then you have you do whatever you want with the mechanics of the game It's like totally like I'm in a way. Yeah, it's totally sandbox. There's no story to play through. It's just you and your friends Very whatever you want very fun. It's super fun. It's super relaxing. It is very relaxing the music I said this to you the other day, didn't I? I don't feel who I said it to, but no, I don't think I said it to you,

but I like games where I don't feel like like you're under attack. Like maybe I wanted that when I was 16, but now I'm old. I got kids like I need something peaceful. And then you proceeded to play Detroit, become human. That's true. But for some reason, I really like it. Interesting. Well, what do you say? Like, let me push back against this and say, like, we need to be getting back to the real world, Father.

And so. Yeah, the more distant or removed we are from God's creation, the more unable we are to perceive Him from the things He's made and the somehow the more corrupt that makes us in our view on reality. I think that we benefit from lenses by which to engage reality. So as we take on, sort of like through him all things were made. There's a logic, there's a log-oss that flows through all things, which is not immediately evident that we need to uncover. I mean, that's the whole point of philosophical pursuit and understanding what's the underlying

stuff. And when we can experiment in a game or we can explore something and sort of make believe space and try out different rules and different engagements. And this is Jordan Peterson likes to talk a lot about rules and games and so grammar, like what fits. So potentially we can engage reality better

having stepped away from it, learned something, try to apply it. And that's why we want good games. So we don't step away from reality for the sake of nothing. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. So good practice makes perfect. So we can practice in the gaming world in a way that we can apply in the real world, so to speak.

I don't know. Thursday's a big gamer. Is that fair? in a way that we can apply in the, in the real world, so to speak. I don't know. Thursday's a big gamer. Is that fan singing yourself? Yeah, I'm not big anymore. Why do you not like that when people say that? I'm not big into it anymore. I used to be. Tuesday, we almost had John Blevins from Little Flower Media on.

If anybody knows who that is. I know. I was sick. I couldn't have him on. I'm so sorry about that. I ain't no problem. Next time he's in. Yeah, I think he's going to come back. Good. We had a great time. Oh,. I couldn't have him on I'm so sorry about that. I know from next time is in Yeah, I think he's gonna come back good. We had a great time. I'd love to have him on I felt really bad I couldn't stand up. I was so sick. I couldn't get a bed. All right, I'm gonna watch him the clip. So yeah Yeah, cuz this fella what he's doing like pre he calls it pre evangelization So he's is he Gen Z?

No, John's thirty five. OK, I didn't think he was. He has some connections where people know who he is because I don't know if people in the gaming world know the name Blevins, but his older her younger brother is Ninja, who is the most famous professional video game player ever. So let us know in the comments section who's the most famous professional video game player ever. So. Let us know in the comment section

what you guys think about this. He does what he calls it pre-evangelization where he's just basically trying to have family friendly and spaces in the internet that are not hostile to Catholicism and the truth. So it's pretty low bar in a way, isn't it? You'd wish, but it's not so much. Yeah. I mean, if you so this is the

is the one thing that I think is the biggest problem is if you like. So he streams on twitch.com, right? Yeah. If you open twitch.com without logging in, one of the top recommended streams probably will be, and I won't say it'll be something that it'll be something adjacent to like father was saying a dark place in the internet. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah.

No, that's great. Create environments that at least allow, well, goodness, you know? I mean, so there's an explicit ethic that's already promoted there. That's a foundation. You know, God's yelling the Ten Commandments, at least, is the space in which then the personal freedom can be engaged to receive the gospel No, I I spent way too many time on video games so but I still enjoy them occasionally Yes, funny. I like I'll talk to my wife and I'll say like some of my greatest memories as a kid We're playing video games and she's like,

that's so sad. And I think maybe you're right. Like I want to, I want to try to accept that idea, but it doesn't feel that way. And I think it was because like, here's how my video games experience happened. I would wake up on Saturday morning and I would get on my BMX bike and I would ride over to Jake's house and I would wrap my freezing cold knuckles against their wooden door and they would let me in and they would give me coffee and Tim Tams, which you probably don't know what they are. And then we would sit in his room and play these adventure games together. Yeah. And it was freezing cold.

Cause in Australia, you don't have central heating. So you've got like a, you got like a three bar heater right next to you, you know, and you just, you play and then you go get Coke and then you go get KFC. Thanks America. And then you come back. It was playing games with someone else. It was being with someone. It was the whole. That's beautiful because I think it's not only is it like, well, it's actually

just spending time with people with some of your fondest memories. But if you think about it, it's also like if you said that, like going to a museum and like interacting with a piece of art or something like that, it was a painting. Like video games, I would say, are art. It that. If it was a painting, like video games, I would say are art. It's like maybe it's a different level, it's something closer to social media, but it is some singular thing that you're focusing on

with someone else that someone's curated as an experience for you. But I think that, I don't know, I think video games get a bad rap. But I don't wanna control them. Thanks. Maybe a little difference that you were together physically

so that you could get a coke together and then you could do some other things together around the game. So the game was the occasion for gathering, but then the relationship was really the heart of it. And that might be a little bit of a shift, even with online participation, you shut the game off and the person disappears

and in its worst form. I mean, I'm a big believer in online participation and do spiritual direction over zoom and things like that. But, um, yeah, I suppose that that's a little shift. You know, remember what it was like, remember what it was like when you'd go to the video store to get a VHS tape. Oh yeah. And there was something about that ritual. They don't have this anymore. Video stores? No. Getting into your car, driving to a physical brick and mortar place,

pottering about a place, making all the choices on the wall. And then you had to commit to that choice. Yeah. And I'm not trying to say it was better back then. I'm just saying it was different. And it was a ritual that was enjoyable. Yeah. Because today, if I start a movie and I'm three minutes in say it was better back then. I'm just saying it was different and it was a ritual that was enjoyable. Because today, if I start a movie and I'm three minutes in or 10 minutes in, I don't like it.

There's eight billion options that I could be watching. And even if I am liking it, there's still this part of me that's like, I could be on another just with one click, a whole nother thing. And there's that commitment to the movie, whether or not it's bad, was something that I don't know. there was something to that that I miss. How old are you, do you mind me asking? 46. Okay.

I'm 39. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Although technology advanced much slower in Australia than it did here. So I sometimes have You know the internet came in when I was 17 in Australia, even though I'm 39 Like it was it was yeah. What about you? How are we? I had my first email account in

When I was 17 see so that's what I'm saying So even though you're older than seven years our experience is probably the same Bulletin board systems who did some of that? Okay before that or around that time. Yeah, I got a Universities had had internet. Yeah things and then yeah web browser was a little bit later hotmail Number hotmail. Yeah, Ozie Mail, that was an Australian. Aussie Mail, nice. And then Guitar Tabs, that's where I was at.

That and porn, unfortunately. Wow, early. Yeah, I mean I was looking at porn when I was eight. Yeah. Magazines and things like that, but then the internet came and it was just good night, like it was done. Yeah, wow.

It was crazy. Yeah. How many kids minds have just been blasted? All that pushed the technology too, from what I understand. Yeah. I mean, that's why we have YouTube today is porn. If it weren't for porn, we wouldn't have the kind of high speed internet and the developments we've seen. Yeah. Video streaming video. That's not thank you porn. No, that's right. Right. No, it's got bringing good out of evil. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Video streaming video. That's not thank you porn. No, that's right. Right. Porn is evil. No, it's got bringing good out of evil. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of good things that emerge from.

What's tough is like, it's getting harder. You know, like if you choose to throw away your smartphone, fair enough, but it's almost like it's getting to the point where you're not allowed to live without a smartphone. Practically speaking. You go to a restaurant, they need you to scan a QR code. He's like, what if I now what? Or like I've got like on YouTube in order to get monetized, you have to have like a backup password. So if you're logging in from a different computer,

it'll send you like a notification of a phone, but like my phone doesn't have internet on it. So, but the only way to verify it is through my phone, which doesn't have internet on it, which means I can't verify it. Yeah. And it used to be that they would text you a number, but it seems like they're now moving away from that. So you might have, we might have to choose to be strangers in a strange land or

seek to moderate our use of this stuff appropriately. So you might have, we might have to choose to be strangers in a strange land or seek to moderate our use of this stuff appropriately. Yeah. So interesting. I read a book called Stolen Focus. You familiar with that? No, but I get it. Johan Hari, who's interesting in it.

He's a journalist, but he went around recognizing that our focus has diminished over the over the centuries, not just from the internet, but from a variety of things. And so he goes into a deep dive to try and figure out all of the different effects on our ability to focus. And then in the process discovers, you know, there are different kinds of focus. There's the kind of focus of being able to do one task at a time for an extended period of time, but also to be able to sort of free associate and think and be released from constant bombardment

in order that we can focus on thinking and ideating, putting different ideas together. But it's a fascinating. Cool word, I hadn't heard that before, ideating, putting different ideas together. But it's a fascinating word. I hadn't heard that before. Ideating. I like that. Kind of a strength finders were to. Well, I like it because I've often thought that, you know,

when you walk around and you're just thinking random things. Yeah, that's really necessary. It's probably necessary. Yeah. And yet we do away with that by pumping pints with Aquinas and Joe Rogan and whoever else in our heads 24 hours a day Yeah, like you ever had that experience where you're like, well, I would clean the kitchen, but I don't need to listen to it's like You've crossed a line

That's bad Yeah, I found that I like I do most of my reading in August. Isn't that awful? I'm not happy about this, but my deep reading and my is like when I'm off the internet I call it like internet land and like real-world land and when I'm in internet land It's actually really hard to commit to something big. I Know you could say we'll just get better at regulating But I don't think most of us are able to do that. Yeah, it's almost like Al it's really he it's one of the things that he does

in that book is to push on this idea. People say, oh, well, you have all these things on your phone, just figure it out for yourself. And he says, well, that's nice, you know, but we also need cultural supports for that. We need environmental shifts to help us make good decisions. We're not just sort of solitary wills running around, making raw choices.

We're supported by cultures and people and relationships. And so why don't, you know, apparently the, there was a guy who worked at Google who started to have qualms of conscience. He was then going to quit. And then he got hired as the ethics director. Is that Tristan somebody? Yeah, I remember this.

And so he tried to push back on some of the practices, but the problem is the business model is built around it. If you push back on it, they strictly lose money. And so the business model is constantly pushing back on keeping your attention. The longer they keep your attention, the more money they make. The more money they make,

that's the survival of the company. So I mean, survival is always pushing towards, is always a driving force. And so to do that, we almost need external pressures in order to influence Facebook and YouTube and Google and all of these things. So things like the infinite scroll was a development. And the guy that developed that repented of it

because he saw just reaching the end of a page and needing to push a button to go to the next page drastically reduces the amount of time that you'll spend. Just that little decision point. So anyway, there are ways that our technology and our pushback on some of these things could be helpful. Yeah, it's Friday. So once we're done, I'm gonna leave my phone in my office

and I'm gonna go, I do this. I go over the weekend and then I can read. Nice. And then I can actually interact. But I've noticed that just like that person does an assessment of the click button and what's actually happening, or what's actually happening in MatFrad, despite what I would like to be happening in MatFrad, is that I just, I get distracted and I just, my head

is like, shh, like the TV channel when you're not on an actual station. Just like that. I can't focus. So I actually love weekends. Nice. It's just like that. I can't focus. So I actually love weekends. Nice. It's actually a really nice feeling. Just abandon. I don't even have internet on my phone.

But just the text messages. Yeah. Yeah. Fragments attention. And then I do not understand the smartwatch. Well, I think I understand the smartwatch and I'm not condemning people for using it. People swear to me it helps them.

But you're literally tethering yourself to the internet. It's like at this point you, we are cyborgs. We're part men, part machine. It's interesting. Even with our phone, we're part men, part machine. You can't have an interesting conversation about who won the, this, the 2000 Olympics or this without someone having to subvert that pleasant conversation by giving you the fact by quickly Googling it. Yeah, that's an interesting phenomenon. We have all these facts out there now and, and, and you can constantly fact check everything. And was there, was there a value to not having all of that, that we had to hypothesize a little bit and that we could just have conversations and.

That was part of the joy, right? It's like, no, they won the Olympics. No, no, no, remember because, and then you're talking. And then you think through it and make an association. Well, let me think. Here it is, it says it right here. Where was I when that was happening? And then you try to get associative memory

and pull some things together. And now you just check Google. Do you want to know who had the most medals at the 2000 Olympics? I don't know. Let's do it. The United States. Who do you think? Oh, I already looked it up. You were talking about people being annoying and Googling it. I immediately thought I should Google it.

All right. Who won? The United States had the most medals. You're welcome. Three and the most gold medals at 37. So 93. Well, what about? No, I see. I see. 93 medals. 93 medals. I was coming home from World Youth Day in Rome in the year 2000

and the Olympics was happening in Sydney. And so I landed in Sydney. I'm seeing all these Greek gods walking around who were, you know, in different aspects of the games, but Come on you rascal. Look this has been fun It has been fun Rome is one of the I went to five world youth days in a row what minus Rome Yeah, we went to Denver?

No, Paris was the first through Madrid. Oh, I see after. But I missed Rome. Rome was the one I missed. So I went to Paris, Toronto, Cologne. I see. Sydney. You went there, yeah.

And Madrid. What was your, how long was your beard in Sydney? Same length as it is now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was 2008. I was your, how long was your beard in Sydney? Uh, same length. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was 2008. I was ordained in 2004. So, uh, Cologne was the first time I went to ordained was Pope Benedict's first. And this was in Portugal, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. It's funny. I know I'm getting old cause someone invited me to fly out and speak there and I'm like, no, thank you. Why would I? I want to stay with my kids and read something.

They're great experiences. It's amazing. You know, the sea of humanity and people from so many cultures and, uh, and having this immediate connection in our Catholic faith. Yeah. I was in an elevator with Coptic Catholics who had never been to a Roman rite mass before and were experiencing that for the first time, like Coptics from Egypt. So beautiful. It was so beautiful. Beautiful conversation with young people that were so happy to be present. I think that was in Madrid. And yeah, so many different connections. It was great to be in Sydney. That's the one time I've been in Australia.

Did you like it? Yeah, I stayed with a family there that was, and met, actually I met Father Mathias, who's the founder of Encounter Ministries, we were talking about earlier. He was a seminarian at the time, and we ended up just getting placed in the same host family, and that's been a friendship since then.

And yeah, beautiful. Did you go out of Sydney, or were you just in the city? We went a little bit north, went to a little zoo, got to see koalas. Nice. Yeah. Who spend most of their life high. Right. I don't know if that's true or not. They look like that. And I know people say they get high off eucalyptus Thursday, but I don't know if that's actually factual or if we just like that idea.

That's that's my understanding. Yeah, eucalyptus gives them a euphoric effect. Which makes everyone on this train really be munging down. Go on. Despite the rumors, koalas don't get high. Oh no. Take that, Violet.

It's because the leaves are so low in nutrients that they need to sleep more than most animals. That's hilarious. Which helps them to serve energy. So if you consider just not eating being high. They don't look malnourished. Not eating, that's one way to go, huh? So donate.

So I have some questions for St. Colby. For who? Maximilian Colby. Okay, oh I see, cause he did was, that's a really dark joke there, Thursday. He's actually had to answer that before on the show. Have we? Yeah, it's come up. That's funny. dark joke there, Thursday. We've actually had to answer that before. Have we? Yeah, that's funny. Australia is beautiful.

Yeah. So it's just a beautiful country. It's huge. And much of it is uninhabitable. Yeah, it's like Canada in that way. It's so interesting. Yeah. It's worth visiting, but people need to take several weeks,

if they can, at least two. But it's like, it's like if you came to America for like a week, you're like, what should I see? You're like, okay, well. Something, whatever you want. Do you have a favorite place in Australia? I think, I think Queensland is my favorite. It's very tropical.

Brisbane is a beautiful city. Melbourne is kind of, I don't know, it's very business and Sydney's. I was born in Sydney. Grew up in Adelaide, well, north of Adelaide. I just love Australia. It's just beautiful. Yeah. We're also, it's also different in that like we're not a, we're not attached to another

country. So it's a little difficult to kind of immigrate like illegally to Australia. Right. As far as I know, they're pretty much on top of the border. Yeah. Yeah. And you can try to take a ship but or boat, but you'll probably die. Yeah.

You've earned it at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Australia've earned it at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Australia is an interesting place. So, for example, Port Piri is the diocese that I'm from. And that's the third largest diocese in the world geographically. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm sure. Go on. Russia was largest, largest geographic diocese. I don't know.

Uh, but that's not what I was looking for. Port Piri is the third. Port Piri is the third largest But actually I know the answer to this question the moon. It's Orlando to the moon That's pretty cool Isn't the rule that like so so the rule in canon law Time something is addressed in any previous code is the code that is currently in effect. And so the last time exploration was addressed in canon law, it said that the bishop of the diocese where the expedition left from is the bishop of the area that they get to until a diocese is established. Nice. And because the first moon mission was launched from Orlando, that makes the Bishop of Orlando the Bishop of the Moon.

That's hilarious. All right. I want to take some questions from the live chat. We don't often do this. We usually just leave it for our local supporters, but I want to do a little plug for Locals as well. So Locals is a free speech community platform that I stream to most days. You get a ton of free things in return.

But one thing you get is a newspaper that we produce. I got to give you one before you go. It's called the Jill and it's free. We post the Jill out, no matter where in the world you live. We all pay for the shipping as well. It's a really good newspaper. It's got like 12 pages in it. We have Catholic comics and poetry and crosswords and articles. If you become an annual supporter at Matt, Fred dot locals dot com, I've pinned, uh, something to the top of the feed

for you to put your address into, but you got to do it today. Cause on Monday we're sending out the newspapers for spring. What are you laughing at? Oh, I will you are you laughing at? Don't worry about it. All right. I have some of the questions from earlier in the chat written down if you want those or you just want to take them live. Yeah.

Well, just because I announced that I want to be kind of fair to those who might be asking questions now. But if there was specific something that you thought that'd be fun to answer, let me know. But we just got one super chat. You want to go for it? What is it? Okay. So, uh, D Friass nine five seven asked, is there a difference between the spirit and the soul? Yeah. I'm there's a, I think I'm accurate in saying that the church hasn't sort of canonized a really well-defined anthropology.

So, there are certain things that must be there and ways that things interact. Certainly St. Thomas's incorporation of Aristotelian things is part of it. more ancient, so in the desert fathers in a vagrius and cash in the soul. Well, noose. So it just depends on how you define how you, how you want to reference these terms. So the catechism of the Catholic church describes the distinction between soul and spirit in this way, quote, sometimes sometimes the soul, internet's the best, forget our conversation and what we could have arrived at. Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit. St. Paul, for instance, prays that God may sanctify his people wholly with spirit and soul and body, kept sound and blameless in the

Lord's coming. The church teaches that the distinction does not introduce a duality, i.e. a spirit into the soul. Spirit signifies that from creation, man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God. Anyway, check out, can we have an answer now? Is that an answer? I have no idea what I just read. Don't ask me to read it. Religacy stuff says, what do you think of Harry Potter? Any thoughts? Should we stay away from it or does it have a value? I'm going to try to encourage my kids to read it. Great. I think it's a pretty cool book.

I don't think it's anything like a beautiful book like the Lord of the Rings, but I think it is probably an interesting story. What do you think? I haven't read it. So I'm under qualified to weigh in. My sense is something like, you know, Jordan Peterson and Peter Kreft talked about Harry Potter, I thought, in a pretty useful way. And just there are archetypes, there are interactions,

there are values, there are a lot of good things that are there. I suppose the danger that people latch onto is it's magic or white magic or wizards or whatever. And if you go freely Googling those things and you don't have a little bit of parental supervision, you can end up in some dark places. But anyway, it's reasonable. supervision you can end up in some dark places but anyway I'd recommend people check out Trent Horn did a nice response video to certain claims that certain Catholics make about Harry Potter they're actually just factually

inaccurate mmm like I think somebody made the claim that the Sheila who wrote the book what's her name Rowling nice JK Rowling like No, I'm serious like no, I know you are JK Rowling. Is that the name? I'm not kidding. I know you is that actually her name? JK oh I get it. Yeah, see your jokes. They're too good for me. I can't get him Anyway that she went to some I don't know these are actually like Satanic spells or something That's like and he kind of disproved that. And so if you're interested or worried, I mean, fair enough, you don't have to read it and maybe it's not a good thing to read, but check out what Trent at least had to say. So you think about that, not the council.

I'm registered for a retreat says East wind with father Boniface in March at St. Emma's St. Emma's who sent Emma Emma's, who's St. Emma? That's a good question. The monastery at St. Emma's is the Benedictine nuns who are close to St. Vincent in Greensburg, Pennsylvania. So they have a retreat house and I have a couple of retreats, weekend retreats in March. I think they're both in March. Anyway, during Lent, they're both in Lent.

So I'm not, St. Emma's, it's a little, St. Emma the saint, so the monastery was gifted by the, oh gosh, a family who lost a daughter whose name was Emma. And there is a Saint Emma who was, who died in 876, something like that, AD. So yeah, anyway. 874. Yeah, no, I know it's 876,

because it's on my birthday is her feast day, January 31st, 876, since I was born January 31st, 1976. So 1100 years to the day before I was born. Altdorf, is that how you say it? St. Emma of Altdorf? So, 1100 years to the day before I was born. Altdorf? Is that how you say it? St. Emma of Altdorf? Whenever I mispronounce things, I just blame it on having an Australian accent.

Oh, I asked how he's saying Australian. Any other questions that came in? There was one kind of interesting one. Somebody was asking what he should do if he's in a long-term serious relationship with a girl, but it's starting to feel called to the priesthood. Later on, not serious. What's the answer? Well, I might be good to talk with somebody about that.

We're at the bottom of the barrel here. We're getting towards a three hour mark and I've got nothing left. So I'd like to apologize, apologize to your girlfriend for saying that. Father Boniface, somebody asked what your favorite snack is. Yeah, forget the forget the real question about this guy. Just say the priesthood. What's your favorite snack, Father? Well, let's do the thing first. Okay, so someone's dating a Sheila and he wants to join the priesthood. What does he do? Let's start there. Then we'll get

to the snack. So there are so many different settings in which that could have taken place. Was that like pre-conversion? Was that a well-deserved relationship? Was there already a call to the priesthood? How is that call to the priesthood coming up? Is that a well-discerned relationship, was there already a call to the priesthood? How is that call to the priesthood coming up? Is that a defense because he's afraid of commitment and he's running away from it? Is that a call to become a Byzantine married priest? Is that a, anyway, there's a lot of different things. What's the context of the relationship?

Is it a holy relationship? Is it a problematic relationship? Is it, there's a lot of stuff in there? So I would ask a lot of questions around those kinds of things. But let's say in the best circumstance, it's a good Catholic guy and a good Catholic girl, and they get involved with each other, and there's a healthy relationship, and there's an obvious question about marriage and a discernment of marriage, maybe even an engagement. Now, God doesn't just drop calls to the priesthood in the midst of these things like bombs. God is not just disrupting people's lives.

And when we enter into things in goodwill and we're really prayerful and discerning. And you know, probably if there was a real call, it already existed somewhere. And that should have been part of the initial conversations and would be, and maybe the person knew that they were a little bit on the edge. But anyway, it's a vocation of the priesthood doesn't just sort of drop randomly out of the sky, I guess. It doesn't just sort of come up. Now, questions about that, and those are interesting things to explore. Why am I feeling this call?

Why am I attracted to the priesthood? And there could be a variety of reasons. Maybe I am frustrated that my parish priest can't preach to save his life, and there's a lot of problems, and I feel like I could save that. Well, that's interesting, and there might be something to do with that. Maybe it's because I'm so inspired by my parish priest, because he's amazing, and I can really see the greatness of the vocation I want to give myself to that. Well, there's something that we could do with that as well. But anyway, sort of a lot of pathways

that open up in that scenario. Yeah. You can tell you're a spiritual director. You're used to dealing with one person. Deal with a lot of people. You don't want to give that advice to 5,000 people just generally? Pray and talk with somebody who knows what they're talking about. Those would be my simple directions.

I know when I was like discerning marriage with my wife and we were even kind of getting close to marriage, it wasn't like the priesthood lost its appeal. Yeah, that's right. Just like priests probably say, I see the appeal of marriage and I even desire it. There's something about the priesthood. I would say you almost can't, I'd say the healthiest marriages come from people who have been really open to God's call in their life. That's a sign of real spiritual depth.

Not to say that if they weren't, they're unhealthy marriages, but sort of in an ideal situation, everybody would be open to what God is calling them to and then is directed by the attraction of his love. And likewise, a priest who couldn't be married is not a priest that we want. So it shouldn't be a rejection, should never be a rejection of another vocation, but rather an attraction as according to God's design. This has been good. It's been great.

It's funny doing long form discussions because like we started off real heavy, like immediately, right? And I can't do that for three hours. Like something in me just gets tired. So it was necessary. I think that we meandered towards video games and blockbuster video. Well, what's your favorite snack, father? Since that was asked.

You know, I just got back to corn nuts recently. Really? Those are gross. Thanks. And they like to break your teeth hard. Well, you know, you don't have to. Crap on. Yeah. I most often snack when I'm driving

and I need something to keep processing. So they're sort of like low calorie and you can kind of extend them over time. And so. Yeah. I can, I could never get into the seeds that people are able to buy it and spit the shell out of. Yeah. I've always been impressed. Sunflower seeds. I've always been impressed and people can do that. Yeah. I can't do that either.

But what I do is just throw a ton in, chew them all in and spit the entire thing out because I just cannot make my way through them. Good. All right. Well, look, this has been fun. Father boniface.com spell father out. F R dot org. It's in the description. Thank you very much. So you can learn more about my website. You have all my poorly produced websites. You can donate a website producer for me.

Yeah. I'm sure you get some requests. Well, donate a website producer for me. Yeah Get some requests. Well, thanks a lot. Anything else? What are you doing for Christmas Stay in here and then go into the seat conference. Oh Good gonna seek now. I'm going to encounter and then I'm gonna visit my dad What do you want to do? You want to seek or do you want to encounter? Come on? You can't go wrong. You can't both great. He's like 15,000 people going to see Wow How many people go to encounter father? Yeah, it's like 45 Yeah, I'm sure it's amazing. I'm taking my kids. I'm really excited. Yeah, we're gonna make a, I don't know if I road trip

and I'm gonna have to ask my wife. She's in charge of that sort of thing. That question about what do I do to encourage my daughter to consider a religious life or whatever, something like a secret encounter where there are religious interacting with married couples and families and young people and a lot of life. So beautiful.

Those are great, great opportunities. I don't know if I told you when I decided to pursue my wife, but I was really hung up on the priesthood for a long time and wanted to be a friar of the renewal and went and stayed with them. It was so attractive to their way of life and the radicality of it and things like that.

But then along comes this girl called Cameron who was super pretty and who I kissed in a pub after a couple of pints. I didn't know what to do with that. And so, um, was trying to decide. I didn't want to lead her on and didn't know what to do. And, and, uh, I had a fella his name is Dave. What's his last name? Gosh, he's watching and he's hating me. Golly. Dobblestine, Dave Dobblestine. And he called me up and we had a conversation. He just spat wisdom at me.

It must have come from the Holy Spirit because it affected me so much. He said a few things. And so I share this in case there's people who are discerning between the two. He said a few things. I forget which order he said them in, but he said, number one, you can't walk two paths at once. You'll split yourself in half. That was good advice. That's great. Cause I was doing both, you know? Yeah. He also said, it sounds like the Lord. He said, if you were laying in bed at night and you heard a sound outside, you might be obligated to get up and see what that is. And he said, it sounds like the Lord's making a sound

with Cameron. And I think you're obligated to go and see what this is. It was so helpful. That's beautiful. So I remember going into my room and like writing in my journal, like today I've stopped discerning the priesthood, and today I'm gonna discern marriage with my wife.

And from that point on, I resisted viewing, you know, like priest websites and seeing what the CFRs were doing and things like that. Like actually like, like a temptation, I would just resist it and then made a choice to pursue her and so glad I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Decision, the word scissors is in decision. It's cutting away and to just cut away those other options and to choose one. That's how we raise people up in the value hierarchy. We sacrifice lesser things for the sake of greater things and to sacrifice those beautiful dreams, good things, but for the sake of your wife. And then you see what it's like to have her a little higher up in the value hierarchy. It was so cool. She was actually at a wedding, part of someone's wedding party.

When I called her from, I was living in Brisbane, she was Texas. And I called her to tell her like, no, let's do this. I'm all in, let's go. And she was so expecting me to say that I was joining the priesthood, that she almost said like, no, no, I, I totally understand. I love you.

I think it almost began to come out of her mouth until she was like, Oh wait, what? Oh, yeah. That's beautiful. It helped that she didn't have a beard and didn't smell like the man that I hung out with the CFR. I'm only joking, but, uh, father Bob the dad who's the founder of the companions of the cross. He said that line that I'll never forget since discernment became popular. No one's made a decision since. And so I was happy to have made a decision.

They always say that about Franciscan. Everybody's discerning at Franciscan. Yeah. And that's probably true. Everybody's discerning. Yeah. So funny. No decisions are good. Take a step, take a risk.

And we only have one life to offer. And if we, if we leave it in indecision and we don't go anywhere, you get nothing. That's, that's the lie about indecision is you can have all of it. But if you don't decide, you actually get nothing. Yeah, yeah. Take a risk, move forward. Yeah. And it's so beautiful. We both discerned the CFRs, you know that? I also- Maybe I knew that.

Yeah, I also was very, I loved them. I was very serious. I would have joined there, but while I was visiting, I had already been to St. Vincent and it was in my mind, but I really wanted to see myself there. And the Lord just made it so clear in prayer already been to St. Vincent and it was in my mind, but I really wanted to see myself there. And the Lord just made it so clear in prayer that he wanted me to go to St. Vincent.

So we both love the CFRs, discern the CFRs. Whenever I encounter a CFR, I just, I feel like when I'm with the CFRs, I feel like my mess is acceptable. You know what I mean? Like it's not,'s, it's, it's not, they just are so beautiful. They really hold together the kind of conservative orthodoxy and that kind of

quote unquote liberal love of the poor messy humaneness. Yeah. And their personalities are so different. Do you know I went to the middle East with father Stanford Turner. Oh yeah. Did you know that? No. We were in, um, Oh, what's that rather liberal part of the Middle East? Abu Dhabi. That's where we were together. Preaching.

Wow. Yeah. Nice. And, uh, the call for prayer for the Muslims was bellowing in the mosque next door. And I remember part of the agreement was that I wouldn't speak against quote unquote the prophet because there would be people from the government there. Wow. As long as I didn't do that, we should be good.

But then there were people who showed up, but there was like three or 4,000 people who came to this conference. There were people who came secretly from Saudi Arabia. I sat down with them. I asked them what it was like to be a Christian in Saudi Arabia. What shocked me was how like me they were. You know, you have this idea that like people who in Saudi Arabia, like they're the real deal and they are, I guess, but they're just like me, you know, they're like you, they

watch movies, they, you know, it was so cool. And they actually invited me to come to Saudi Arabia. They said they, they do these conferences sometimes and like barns, but they always remove their shoes when they go into a place of prayer. So I guess that's how the police found them last time. It's like barn with a giant pile of shoes. People wonder what was going on. Dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The priest was from the Philippines and he said, I said, well, how did you get to Saudi Arabia then? Look, as a priest, he said as a car mechanic and I went, okay, cool. So you're a car mechanic. And he went, no. And I went, oh, lying. And they celebrated Holy Mass in his apartment

and they would always have a birthday cake in the fridge and they would have a birthday plan for whose birthday it was should the police come. So they'd have people around the perimeter with cell phones to call if people were coming in and then they would change it quickly into a birthday celebration. So you could be really careful when people ask for baptism. Yeah. But I remember I said, I don't know if I could go. I think my wife wouldn't let me. They're like, well, they, no, they will not. They will not behead you. They will just send you away. They will send you back.

Like that was comforting. They weren't behead you. Good. Thanks. Yeah, you got to figure there's no lukewarm Catholics. I don't know. That's what I'm saying though, when I said they're like me. I was kind of like, they were just regular people who,

but yeah, I'm sure you're right. Like you gotta be serious enough to risk death. Yeah, we don't risk death to go to mass. No. Do you sometimes feel like we overplay the persecution card here in America? I don't think we do, but I want, I don't think we do. Just because we're not getting beheaded

doesn't mean we're not getting persecuted. It doesn't mean we can't speak out against like soft persecution, but what do you think? Yeah, I mean, there is a kind of, well, we were talking about this earlier about the really going back to the apostolic age as our model rather than the middle ages. And the idea that, you know,

we're, was it Michael Lofton you were talking about? No. Who, uh, who, who is saying that Jonathan van Morin was saying the West is dead. There's nothing to take back. There's no culture to take back. We're not going to do it. It's not there. We are now medics, rebuilding civilization. Yeah. America's over. Yeah. So I think there's a temptation to think that we have more than we actually have. And if we just fit within certain realms, I mean, there certainly is a soft persecution or there's a, there's a real weight put on speaking out about certain things and we need

to fit within certain parameters. And we feel like it's worth fitting into those parameters so that we can hold onto institutions and properties and certain kinds of structures. And, but yeah, how much of that do we really have? So yeah, I think there's, there's certainly what the American church looks like in 10 years. It's interesting now what it looks like. So, yeah, but I love that. That's interesting. Now what it looks like. I think so. Yeah. But I love that. That's a real cool insight about going back to the apostolic age as opposed to the medieval ages. Yeah. Cause we're not in Christendom. Yeah. Yeah.

From a Cripus and christened it to the apostolic age. So book by Monsignor Shay that I think is offering a lot of insight and challenge to people. And the bishop said that in the Synod for the New Evangelization, one of the propositions was that we are closer now to the apostolic age, to pre-christendom than we are to the Middle Ages. And we should draw more insight in terms of evangelization from that period. There's something like freeing about that.

I think so, yeah. What do you think is so freeing about that? Well, it gives us a chance to think outside of the box So that we're not kind of slightly adjusting institutions We're not taking levers and mildly adjusting them this way or that way, you know, it's not just like Oh, should we shift this liturgical practice, you know five degrees or should we? Take this institution three degrees that way? It's like there's nothing left people.

There's a certain wasteland out there. How do I plant Catholicism in fresh soil or in wasted soil? How do I clear away enough soil to actually plant Catholicism? I think there's an opportunity for a new evangelization to use an old phrase. Well, on that excellent note, which could be explored for the next three hours. Let's wrap up. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Somebody asked if father could extend a blessing. Yeah. What do you think about blessing people online? I'm a bit suspicious of it. You know, blessings are sacramental. It's according to the faith of the giver and the receiver. So as long as people have faith to receive it, God is blessing people right now. I can be the instrument of communicating that blessing. Fair enough. Fair enough. Because earlier we were talking about you can't convey sacraments.

That's right. But it's a sacramental. Well, then I'd love your blessing. So would everybody else. The Lord be with you. And with your blessing. So would everybody else. The Lord be with you. And with your spirit. Heavenly Father, extend your grace, especially in this Advent season, to all who are viewing now and in the future, to have greater openness of heart, to receive the love that you want to give in the poorest places like the manger in Bethlehem. Find those places in our hearts that seem most unworthy of you

and transform us by your love, by your gaze in those places. And pour out your blessing on all who are viewing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Glory to Jesus Christ. Now and forever. Amen.