Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - A conversation with the director of “Don’t Look Up”

Episode Date: December 8, 2021

The plot of the great new movie “Don’t Look Up” is driven by a giant comet speeding toward Earth and the scientists who want to divert it. Adam McKay directed this dark comedy. He and real-life planetary defense expert Amy Mainzer talk with Mat Kaplan about the science, the scientists, and much more. Then a group of Planetary Society colleagues share their thoughts about the film. Fans of Dr. Seuss will find something special in this week’s What’s Up with Bruce Betts. There’s always more to explore at https://www.planetary.org/planetary-radio/2021-adam-mckay-amy-mainzer-dont-look-upSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The director of Don't Look Up and an old friend, this week on Planetary Radio. Welcome. I'm Matt Kaplan of the Planetary Society, with more of the human adventure across our solar system and beyond. That human adventure is often best reflected in the arts, including film. It's rare that a movie gets science, scientists, and their importance just right, which is just one of the reasons Don't Look Up has already made itself a classic. That's my view, anyway, and the view of several of my Planetary Society colleagues, as you'll hear. First, though, we'll welcome the movie's director, Adam McKay. You'll hear Adam give high praise to the science consultant for the film, Amy Meinzer, and I'm happy to say that Amy also joined the conversation.

Later, we'll get all Seussical when Bruce Betts reveals the crater in our solar neighborhood that honors that beloved author of so many classic children's stories. The December 2nd edition of the Planetary Society's free weekly newsletter starts with one of the prettiest pictures ever taken on the red planet. It combines two panoramas captured by Curiosity, which is still rolling across Mount Sharp. The image smoothly transitions from a Martian morning to the evening with a spectrum of beautiful light. You'll find it at planetary.org slash downlink. Just below is another stunner.

This one comes from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. It's a windblown crater with ripples that make it look like a living thing. Simply gorgeous. U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris chaired her first National Space Council meeting last week. The agenda included release of the first major space policy document by the Biden administration. The downlink also has a link to your choices for the best of everything space in 2021, including the best space image. It's one we're pretty proud of. I think you know how we at the Planetary

Society feel about planetary defense. I'm sure you also know that several movies have used the threat of a world-shattering impact to drive their plots. Well, you've never seen one like Don't Look Up. First of all, it's a hilarious comedy, albeit a dark and satirical one. Second, it features such first-rank stars as Leonardo DiCaprio, Jennifer Lawrence, Meryl Streep, Ariana Grande, Tyler Perry, Cate Blanchett, Jonah Hill, and on and on. Third, and most important for us, its central characters are possibly the most believable scientists in the history of film, as is nearly all of the science portrayed. As you'll hear, director Adam McKay, who has made films ranging from Anchorman to The Big Short, gives much credit to one of our favorite guests. Amy Meinzer of the University of Arizona last joined us in July

when she provided an update on the NEO Surveyor project she leads. NEO Surveyor project she leads. NEO Surveyor is the infrared space telescope that will seek out the thousands of near-Earth objects yet to be discovered. Amy and Adam joined me in an online session a few days ago. Adam McKay, Amy Meinzer, welcome to Planetary Radio. Adam, I want to congratulate you. I didn't get access to the film until late one night, and I couldn't wait. I had to watch it then. And then I got very little sleep because my mind was on fire. And as I have already told you, I think you have created the greatest dark satirical comedy since Dr. Strangelove, except that Don't Look Up has a lot more heart. And your Strangelove is a

tech billionaire named Isherwell, who is just played with creepy perfection by Mark Rylance. So thank you for this terrific movie. Well, that is very high praise, Matt. And thank you for having me on. I will add that every one of my colleagues who was able to make it to one of the early screenings, which sadly I could not, has said the same thing. It has become not just one of their favorite science fiction movies, but one of their favorite movies, period. From the moment I saw that observatory and the laser, that adaptive optics laser shoot up into the sky, I knew I was in for something terrific. And I was frequently laughing out loud, but a lot of the laughter, I have to admit, was painful. A lot of what you showed us in this kind of funhouse mirror held up to 21st century America

kind of cut to the bone, which I guess was also the idea. America, kind of cut to the bone, which I guess was also the idea. Yeah. And by the way, I got to give props to Dr. Meinzer on the telescope, the laser, the math. Boy, oh boy, her input, guidance, also the culture of the scientist too. Oh, yes. Instrumental. So it was very important, especially for the beginning of the movie. Oh, and I'll also give Amy credit for Carl Sagan's little cameo in the movie. She suggested that. And I love it. It's such a nice detail. But yeah, that was the idea with the movie is that,

we're living through careening, shifting seismic times. We're clearly in some kind of changing era. There's some sort of shift that's happened. Some of it's so big, we can't fully understand it. And it's confusing. It's scary. It's jarring. And we really all wanted to make something that allowed us to have some distance and to laugh and to share our emotions about it because we've been so pummeled by it for the last five, 10 years, 15, 20 years, this slow, gradual slide that we've been in. And so the idea was like, man, if we can get together in a movie theater, which may not happen as much as we'd hoped with COVID, but even if we can get together with family and friends or even by ourselves, share a laugh, I think there's a real power and value to that kind of distance and perspective

on these times. I sure hope you're right about that. And I hope that this film will contribute, move us maybe toward that goal. Amy, I'm not a bit surprised to hear about the influence you had over the film, including about the depiction of the scientist, especially in that opening scene when Jennifer Lawrence's character makes the discovery and then is joined by her colleagues, including the astronomer played by Leonardo DiCaprio. I mean, it sounds like you got listened to a lot more than the typical science advisor to a feature production. Well, I got to say, I mean, it sounds like you got listened to a lot more than the typical science advisor to a feature production. Well, I got to say, I mean, Adam is great. He's a huge, huge science nerd. Sorry, Adam. That's a compliment. Yeah, absolutely.

100% a compliment. It's really great to work with artists and creators who are really themselves truly interested in science. And as I like to kind of think about it, you want ideally to partner with artists who are interested in capturing the feelings of the scientists. Because, you know, the things we learn, sometimes they're great news. Other times it's not great news. So to me, the science is telling us about the world, but the art, you know, the movies, music, the music that goes with the film, all of that is part of visuals are part of capturing how do we feel about this news that we're learning? How do we feel about these facts and how do we interpret them? How do we how do we live with that information? And I think that's one of the things that I really, really enjoyed working with Adam and the rest of the team on the movie about is they really helped to humanize the science and show scientists as human beings trying to grapple with some really difficult news. Something we try to do on this show as well.

I also wonder about the choice of a comet to drive this story, this possibly world-ending near-Earth object. Adam, why a comet? You know, initially it was not a comet. It was an asteroid. It was actually a 32-kilometer-wide asteroid. And then I spoke to Amy. I was introduced to Amy, who started giving me some scientific parameters to what this actually could be. So we discussed the difference between the asteroid and the comet. She informed me that, no, if it was 32 kilometers wide, there's nothing we could do

about it. And so it was funny. We had this fiction versus science haggling back and forth till we came up with a comet roughly the size of the one that killed the dinosaurs, the Chicxulub object. movie be a place of reason and science and proportion because they're going to go into the they're going to take the log flume into the ball pit of madness uh later in the movie uh so that was that was amy the reason it's a comet i'll i'll let her answer that part of the question amy did a comet present more of a threat and and something that could sneak up on us more than an asteroid? It really fit the needs of this particular story, right? Because you have an astronomer who's not really looking for comets. She's using a large aperture telescope, one of the biggest telescopes in the world, Subaru, and she's looking for something else. So it was fairly straightforward to design a comet. It's actually kind of loosely modeled after comet NEOWISE, which we discovered last year. And we found that comet with the NEOWISE telescope in about late March,

but it made its close approach to the sun and the earth in early July. So in other words, these Oort Cloud comets can move inward with just absolutely incredible speeds with respect to the earth. So in other words, it's not out of the realm of possibility. The good news is space is really big. So even though these things come in with huge veloc out of the realm of possibility. The good news is space is really big. So even though these things come in with huge velocities, the odds of actually hitting the earth are really, really, really tiny. But in this case, we see what happens if one is discovered that's headed our way. Apologies for putting you on the spot. What did you think of the spectacular CGI depictions of the comet? And that's just a percentage of the amazing visuals

in the film. Yeah, we had a lot of great conversations with the visual effects team. And they are some of the most talented people in the business. I sent them a lot of different pictures of the comets. We looked at the Comet 67P that Rosetta took those spectacular images of. We looked at a lot of different comet pictures. We looked at Comet NEOWISE pictures. And they really, they took it and they ran with it. There's a line in the movie where the comet is both beautiful and horrible. Yeah.

One of my favorite lines in the film. Yeah, it was great. I've never had this experience. I had a little bit with the big short with our financial consultant, Adam Davidson. big short with our financial consultant, Adam Davidson, but Amy really stepped up because Amy was directly talking to Raymond and Dion, our VFX supervisors. And there were several times that Ray and Dion would call me and say, well, what do you think of this? And I would just straight up say, call Amy. And there's a couple shots in the movie that just straight up came from amy because we see the uh cryo interstellar ship um wait i don't want to give anything away here let me think yeah careful

i didn't give anything away yet we see some interstellar space travel at one point in the movie and i had a couple ideas for shots and then i I said, well, ask Dr. Meinzer what she wants to see. And straight up, she helped design the shots with them. And they pulled it off. They're beautiful. They really are. How did the two of you connect? How did you come onto the film, Amy? Well, gosh, I mean, it's almost lost to the mists of time at this point because it's this was in the before times uh before COVID so Adam I think we first spoke I want to say geez it's yeah it's been it's been two years it's been over two years and we met in the parking lot of a Taco Bell and Amy was coming out. No, we did not. It was my producer, Kevin Messick, I think called JPL or Caltech. And your name came up pretty quickly. And then right away when I talked to Amy, I was like, oh yeah, we got our person because Amy appreciates stories and movies very much.

stories and movies very much and then uh obviously is is a great scientist in her own right uh so it was it was a perfect combination and most importantly right away she got what we were trying to do with this movie and it's very hard job for consultants to find that pocket when you're telling a story of where they fit in the balance between the reality and then once again not giving anything away, but there's a point in the movie where we go more towards sci-fi, where it's next gen tech. And Amy understood how to filter that as well,

which some scientists aren't always, they'll stick to what's known now. And Amy got what we were trying to do. And it is cool and funny. I mean, she's humble, so she'll downplay her role, but she had long conversations with our actors about the culture of scientists, what it's like to be a scientist. She talked with Jen Lawrence about what it's like to be a woman astronomer. I mean, it was really way above and beyond the normal consultant role.

There's so much going on here. And one of the things I think the film demonstrates is the importance of scientists not just being able to do science, but to communicate it, to share the science, but also the passion they feel for it. Amy, I wish they could all take classes from you. You certainly do that well. But we do have some scientists in this film who have a little difficulty getting the point across. Yes, absolutely. That was a big thing Amy clued into right from the jump, that struggle between observing and doing good science and communicating it. It's really hard. And especially when the news is not good,

how do you convey this news to, to the public, to stakeholders, to people who have the power to affect change in a way that, uh, you know, they're going to listen, even though the news is not what they want to hear. I think this is, this is a movie that very much tackles the concept of science denialism. It just really addresses the problem of science denialism and just the notion that people will not hear what they don't want to hear. And hopefully it makes people laugh a little bit at just the foibles we all face as human beings, trying to hear each other, trying to listen and trying to live with sometimes the news that is not good. And we try to show both sides of the denialism

in the sense that people tend to think it's this extremism that says no to science, but there's a middle ground as well, which is where people want to be entertained. They don't want to give the truth their focus. And that's probably a little closer to people like myself. I certainly like to be entertained. I love watching a good NBA game. I love zoning out. And that's a big part of the movie as well. When they go on our fictional show, The Daily Rip, that's not a show for extremists who are denying science. That's a show for people that maybe don't want to grapple with truths fully. And I think that's a zone too, that we don't talk about as much. Certainly when it applies to the climate crisis. I have friends who are on shows that are

far from right wing where they'll tell you they don't cover the climate crisis as much because it doesn't get the ratings. Yeah. And by the way, I'm ready to attend any benefit concert that's a headline by Ariana Grande. So I'm not giving too much away there. There is one more thing, a science related thing. And, you know, this is a science and space science show. I suspect that you have made the first feature film that openly sings the praises of peer review. I cannot think of another film that even mentions it. So kudos, folks. It seems to be the key, the linchpin. And it's funny too, talking to my daughters,

one of which is in high school, they don't really talk about it a lot in a lot of our core educational systems or institutions. But as I've talked to Amy, and as I've spoken to other scientists, climate scientists through the years, it is the key phrase, and it may be the highest burden of proof that exists for mankind. And yet you don't hear it mentioned nearly as much as it should be and what that process is and what that process means. So yeah, we took a lot of joy in getting that in there. That was something DiCaprio was pushing as well. Amy was very encouraging with that.

Sometimes we jokingly refer to peer review as the worst best system we have, right? I mean, it's messy. Like democracy, yeah. Exactly, it's messy. But at the same time, it really subjects our calculations, all of our work to the scrutiny of others and the idea that experiments

should be replicable, that other people should be able to take the same information and get the same results. That is how it works. And I think, you know, one of the strengths of science is that we do learn, right? There's a lengthy discussion about what does uncertainty mean in science, right? That's a pretty big thing. To scientists, that has a really precise mathematical definition, but in the everyday life, in everyday use, it kind of doesn't. It means something different. If you say something's uncertain, it means you don't know. That's not what it means to a scientist. To a scientist, that just quantifies exactly the knowledge that you, the confidence interval that you have on this particular measurement, right? So in other words, we use words in ways that they are just not necessarily understood by non-scientists. And that's, you know, that's on us to help explain

that. I'm going to paraphrase another one of my favorite lines in the movie, and it comes from Meryl Streep's character, the president of the United States. They're sitting in the Oval Office and the scientists are telling her, I forget what they end up with. I'm paraphrasing, 99.97% chance the comet's going to hit if we don't do something. And she says, well, let's just, we'll settle on 70%. Yeah. That exchange is a key exchange. And that, once again, Amy really helped with that because we wanted him to try and communicate that it was going to hit.

But then the truth is there's no such thing as 100%. So the second he says that, and Rob Morgan, who plays Dr. Oglethorpe from the Planetary Defense Center, am I getting the name right? Planetary Defense Coordination Office. Thank you, sir. Thank you. And he says, well, scientists never like to say 100%. And that was another line I was very happy to get in the movie, because we were hoping to shed a light on that, that even gravity, which is settled science, is not 100%. There's still going to be breakthroughs

with gravity. We still don't understand every part of the dynamic of gravity. And I like making movies where I get to learn things as well. And that was something I really got to learn with making this movie as a filmmaker. Amy, I hope that Lindley Johnson, when he sees this film, the guy who really heads the PDCO, I hope he likes what he sees. I got to share a little piece of trivia, Adam, that I bet you're not aware of. That patch for the PDCO, which shows up twice in the film, was designed by a friend of mine named Michael Okuda. Mike and Rick Sternbach were responsible for the design of several Star Trek series, beginning with Star Trek The Next

Generation. So there. You've got to be kidding me. I love that your friend designed that patch because never has a governmental organization's logo been featured more in a movie than that patch is featured in this movie. No, and the second time it shows up, well, we won't go into how that happens. I want to go back to that line that Amy mentioned. When Leonardo DiCaprio's character looks up at the sky, the comet has just become visible to the naked eye. And he says, I don't know if it's terrible or if it's, I think it was horrific. It's horrific and it's beautiful at the same time. To me, so much of this film can be described that

way. It's an interesting thing because I think some people tend to think of religion and science as mutually exclusive. But one of the things I really appreciate about science is that really all you're doing is observing. And if you want to say you're observing God's creation, you could say that. You could just say you're respecting the reality of God's creation. Or you could just say you're observing reality. You can say it however you want, but there's a humility and a supplication to science that I think really comes through in that moment with Dr. Mindy, played by Leonardo DiCaprio, that to me sums up the posture of science that is really strikingly beautiful, even though you guys work long hours doing meticulous work. There is something very, dare I say, almost religious about it.

Well, at its core, science is really the appreciation of nature, right? Yeah, yeah. We're a part of the universe. And when you discover something, whether it's good or bad, as it relates to humanity, we're part of that. And that's a pretty awe-inspiring thing, I think, sometimes, even if the news is not good. I don't know. My conclusion out of all of this is, look, I spend all day looking at airless rocks, okay? And that means that when you look at the Earth, the Earth looks really, really good, I mean, by comparison.

As my boss, Bill Nye, says, everybody I know lives here. We're coming to the end of our time. We only got a couple of minutes left and I got one more to throw at you, Adam. But before I do that, Amy, you know that we are all following development of NeoSurveyor, that space telescope that's going to save us from objects like this. I'm only half serious. I'm only half kidding there, I should say. What's a one-sentence status report on how it's coming together? So much engineering. Holy moly.

It's just incredible to watch the team come together. So, yeah, decisions left and right, building, building, building. We are very, very busy bees right now, which is wonderful. We're so grateful to get to be able to do it. And you'll be back on the show, I hope, to talk more about this as it progresses. Adam, without giving away the ending of the film, I really meant it when I said that while it is a wonderful satire, it has far more heart than most of the other big satirical films out there. It ends with a lot of the qualities that we all desire. Faith, family, friendship, courage, love, even some justice. It was a lovely, lovely ending

in spite of itself. Yeah, I think that's a really good description. That's what we wanted to do with the movie. We wanted to feel a lot of That's what we wanted to do with the movie. We wanted to feel a lot of different feelings. We wanted to get some good, hard laughs at ourselves. We wanted to go back to the core elements that make us human beings, community, family, friends, like you said, faith, humility, and then a nice, big, giant laugh right at the end. And then ultimately too, and I hope people walk out of the theater or turn off their TV after seeing it. And remember,

when it comes to the climate crisis, when it comes to the problems we're facing, we can do this. We have science. The technology is out there for renewables, carbon capture, carbon removal. We just have to do it with sincere and incredible intent, which we're not doing right now. But overall, I am hopeful. We have Excalibur, which is science, and it can do a lot of very tremendous, tremendous things. So, yeah, ultimately, some people could say, oh, it's a little bit dark, but I really view the movie in its totality as a very hopeful movie. Amy, your last thoughts? You've seen it a few times, I bet. Couldn't agree more. I think, you know, the choice of what happens next is up

to us. That's really the message of the movie. So let's go and make things have a better ending, right? Have the best possible ending. That's up to us. We can do that. Thank you both. Amy Meinzer, science advisor on Don't Look Up, a film I cannot wait to see again on a big screen. And I cannot recommend it more highly

to all of you out there who listen to this show. I think you're likely to love it. Amy, of course, also professor of planetary science at the University of Arizona, leading development of Neo Surveyor and still the principal investigator for Neowise. Adam McKay, writer and director of Don't Look Up. He has also made a whole bunch of my other favorite movies

in the last few years. Thank you both folks. I hope it is as great a success as you hope. And I will give one last piece of advice to the audience. Stay through the credits. Matt, thank you for having us on. Likewise. Thanks a lot, Matt. Don't look up. We'll be in limited release theaters on December 10th and will be available on Netflix December 24th. I missed the opportunity to see a preview screening of the movie with some of my Planetary Society colleagues. We gathered online for a group review just a day before this episode of our show was published. You'll hear that spirited

conversation right after this message from our CEO. Hi everybody. It's Bill. 2021 has brought so many thrilling advances in space exploration. Because of you, the Planetary Society has had a big impact on key missions like the Perseverance landing on Mars, including the microphone we've championed for years. Our extended LightSail 2 mission is helping NASA prepare three solar sail projects of its own. Now it's time to make 2022 even more successful. We've captured the world's attention, but there's so much more work to be done. When you invest in the Planetary Fund today, your donation will be matched up to $100,000 thanks to a generous member. Every dollar you give will go twice as far as we explore the worlds of our solar system and beyond. Defend Earth from the impact of an asteroid or comet and find life

beyond Earth by making the search a space exploration priority. Will you help us launch into a new year? Please donate today. Visit planetary.org slash planetary fund. Thank you for your generous support. Sarah Alamed is our digital community manager at the Planetary Society, but she's also an astrophysicist. Sarah, you come up first. What really struck you about this movie? I mean, you were a big fan, weren't you? Oh, yeah. I was looking forward to this movie before we ever knew we were going to get to go to a screening.

Oh, yeah, I was I was looking forward to this movie before we ever knew we were going to get to go to a screening. The subject matter is something I'm always looking forward to. And judging whether or not a science movie is accurate enough to pass my my science test is always interesting to me. But the movie won me almost immediately with that first scene. I've spent a lot of nights observing in telescope domes. And there's a few things you need for it to be accurate. First off, you need your Carl Sagan picture or toy nearby, so nailed it. And second, you need some good music. So immediately, I felt like I knew the characters, and that just set the stage. It was great. You know, it got me from that first scene as well.

Merk Boyan, you are our visual storyteller, so you're probably best qualified among us to judge this as a film. But what did you think? You loved it too, right? I absolutely loved this movie. It quickly became my new favorite space-themed film. I thought it was excellent. Like Sarah said, the characters were just perfect.

They really, I spend a lot of time interviewing people like this, and they really just hit it out of the park. It's just what they're like. And I'm sure that a lot of those people are listening right now saying, no, no, that's not what I'm like, but you are. Daniel Gunn, Chief Communications Officer for the Planetary Society. Were you at that screening with some of these other folks who got to see some of the stars as well? I was there.

Sarah and Merck were with me, our colleague Andrew. Leo was there, our new BFF. Jennifer Lawrence, Meryl Streep, Adam McKay. It was really awesome to be there in that room and to be with other people watching this film. I love Adam McKay films. And what I love about this film is using humor. It is a really effective device to get people to pay attention to urgent issues. Doom and gloom works, but eventually people start to tune out because it's too painful. Humor is a really effective device for getting people to pay attention to

urgent issues like saving Earth from an asteroid or climate change, which is what he was trying to do here. And on our communications team here at the Planetary Society, we've talked about ways to inject humor into what we do, especially with planetary defense, just to get people to pay attention and to feel welcome into a conversation about a serious issue that we can do something about, but not to get too downtrodden about it either. So by using humor, you're able to get everybody in the room to pay attention and hear the message that the people are trying to tell you. Sure worked for me. Ray Pauletta is the last of my colleagues that we're going to hear from today. You were a little bit different because you got to see it in New York, but still on a big screen. So I'm envious of all of you since I watched it on the home TV. But,

but Ray, were you as impressed as these folks? Yes. So first of all, you know, great feedback at the movies. I recently saw Dune in IMAX and so very different experience cinematically, but I do appreciate being able to be back in a theater. It's funny, you know, hearing Danielle speak, I almost liked the movie for the complete opposite reason, which is that it felt like one of the most anxiety inducing experiences of my life in a movie theater. I don't think I've been that deeply anxious since I saw Melancholia in 2021, in which a planet literally collides with Earth and there's nothing anyone can do about it. So yeah, that one really

hit home for me, no pun intended. And I just thought it was really interesting the way that art can make you feel uncomfortable to prove or serve a greater purpose. And I think that's what Adam McKay did so brilliantly in this movie. So there's a wide spectrum of reactions to this film. It certainly had more laughs than Dune. I'll give it that. Almost infinitely more. Let's open it up.

I mean, what are some of your other thoughts? Anybody can jump in here. I thought the accuracy of what it's like to work in this field was really on point. And in fact, I mean, we were all nudging each other because the Carl Sagan references like, oh, we do that all the time. Of course, being the planetary society, there was even an image that they use at the very beginning that we've also used for one of our campaigns. So we thought they had the same taste as us. So they were really well informed with what it's like to be in this industry. Yeah, that was something that you haven't heard my conversation with Adam McKay and Amy Mines yet. But it was something that we focused on.

And Amy apparently had a big influence on that. Not surprised. Yeah. had a big influence on that. Not surprised. Yeah. I can tell that Amy Meinzer must have had a big influence on this movie because they didn't go with the classic asteroid coming for Earth that you'd see in, say, Armageddon, right? They went for the really terrifying thing, a comet coming from the Oort cloud. Those things are on orbital periods that are so long, we really wouldn't know to anticipate it. And they're coming from so far away that they're a lot more difficult to detect. So you can really tell that they talked to the scientists before crafting the story, because that that's what scares me at night when I'm

thinking about planetary defense. Asteroids, I think we've got a good chance, but comets, they're a little more scary to me. Danielle made a really great point. Like it was hilarious. It's a really funny movie and that's a really important thing to do with uh such a doomy gloomy topic uh it really is and you know like ray said it's anxiety the whole time and you're wondering what are they going to do how are they going to do this what is going to happen like it really was a mystery too, at the same time. And so to like have Jonah Hill be able to do his absolutely beautifully timed insults throughout the kind of ongoing, I don't want to spoil anything, but the ongoing joke about the candy machine thing, you know,

like it's, it's really, really well done. I was really pleased with it, the editing, cause I'm an editor first, the editing in it is just superb. It has those kind of fast cuts like the other Adam McKay movies have had in the past, the big short. It had that kind of a vibe to it, especially in the beginning. So it's coming really fast-paced, and they're just jutting through the story. And then what happens is when you get into those fast-paced, it's when they take a moment to slow down and show these space shots, right? So earth is frantic and there's all these things and people are trying to figure out what's happening and what to believe. And then it just cuts to this beautiful comet like floating around that's coming to kill everything. And you are almost rooting

for the comet because it's this beautiful, peaceful, serene thing and everything on Earth is chaotic. We don't do that in real life here at the Planetary Society. You might not want to include that part. But, you know, just in the movie, it sort of makes you feel like more connected to space than trivial, meaningless stuff here on Earth. I don't know.

I was impressed by the beauty of the comet, but I don't think I was rooting for it. Maybe that wasn't the right word. Anybody else want to jump in? I personally love the timing of this movie with the DART mission that just went off recently. I especially love to make a cinematic tie-in that was hinted at before by my brilliant colleague, Sarah Armageddon. So in the same cinematic tradition, obviously the tie-ins with the DART mission are so obvious, but apparently Bill Nelson invited Bruce Willis to the DART mission and he didn't go. That's just like some real deep Hollywood gossip

that I need another podcast for that alone. Nevermind this. I actually got to go to watch the dart mission and it was a really interesting experience after watching that movie because i was in the car driving toward vandenberg space force base and i had the live stream from nasa going on and adam mckay was actually on the live stream talking about the movie and talking about asteroids and it being the first mission to go redirect an asteroid is is really cool but in that moment it was this this really interesting uh kind of juxtaposition of art

and reality and it just kind of struck me like what what if this was the moment that we were trying to really redirect an asteroid that was coming toward earth that would be terrifying and i'm so glad that we have enough time to really plan for that contingency. Let's hope. Think about before this pandemic, how many movies we saw about a virus spreading globally. And it was kind of like, oh, yeah, that's like this weird sci-fi future that'll never really happen. And then it did. And now we're in it. And now we're starting to see movies like this. And someday, hopefully not soon, it's going to happen.

And we're going to go, okay, now we have a problem to deal with. And all these sci-fi future movies are becoming real. And so I was thinking about that while watching it. Because it is a metaphor for climate change. The movie is also a metaphor for climate change. The movie is also a metaphor for COVID stuff. But it's also going to be a very accurate truth about something that happens one day. And so yeah, are we going to be ready? Are we going to be prepared? This is stuff that we all think about every day here at our job. And hopefully we are. Yeah, science communication with the public is a huge theme

in this movie. So like Merck is saying, you could replace any disaster that scientists know about and need to warn the public about with this film. I thought it was interesting. It doesn't really give anything away, but they do reference the Planetary Defense Coordination Office. When I saw that, when we saw that, it was like, oh yeah, of course, yay. But then it says like a little asterisk, like, yes, this is a real office. This really exists. And realizing most people, if you were to interview them on the street, wouldn't know that that actually is a thing.

And so something that I love that we do at the Planetary Society as part of our mission is educate people about these topics. And so I expect that we will get a lot of people Googling planetary defense, the coordination office, all kinds of topics. And so I expect that we will get a lot of people Googling planetary defense, the coordination office, all kinds of topics. I'm glad that our website and our resources are available for people to read and learn more about this in depth. We should wrap it up, but I do have one more question for you. I complimented Adam McKay and Amy Meinzer on the end of the film. So without spoiling it, I just said that it took us back to so many of the things that we admire and aspire to in humanity. Family, love, friendship, even a touch of justice. I just wonder what you thought of the of the ending.

Be careful. I just wonder what you thought of the ending. Be careful. I was surprised by a lot of different moments of the endings throughout because the movie really, it kind of takes several turns throughout. So it did definitely surprise me. And I can't say I expected any of it to happen kind of the way it did, which I loved about it. And that is rare.

You kind of can figure out movies now there's been there's a formula that hits and this got way off formula In a really beautiful way So I was definitely pleased with the ending and just watch for Meryl Streep Even if you don't like space or asteroids or anything like she is so freakin good in this movie It's just enjoyable to watch her like really fall into this character so they're all great i think it's just a terrific cast anybody else yes matt um as somebody who has written about seven uh movie reviews on letterboxd i've been waiting for you to ask what my opinion uh my professional opinion on this movie is and i would give the ending personally 10 out of 10, no notes. I thought it really delivered.

I thought it made a – I'm not going to say the word that I was just going to say. It made – Can I guess? Yeah, you can guess after. We can talk later. But it definitely – oh, my God, I can't use that word either. It's really hard, Matt, to not think of words that are punny or spoilery, but I will say that the ending

definitely will stick with me for a while. Danielle. Ray referenced Melancholia earlier, and that film, the ending of that film, if you want to be transformed to that moment of when something really, really bad is about to happen, like this thing that we're trying to make sure it doesn't happen. It is one of those scenes where you can revisit it and get

that scared feeling all over again. This movie, trying not to give it away either, but there's kind of a couple different endings that you can call the ending. And it does something similar where you can revisit it and it just feels very real. And then there's other endings that don't feel as real, but are very entertaining. Very entertaining indeed. Sarah, did you want to jump in? really wanted to know that by the end of this movie, the science behind what they were trying to say was vindicated and elevated. I felt like by the end of it, if I was someone who had never heard anything about planetary defense and I had seen this movie, I would suddenly want to start paying attention. Because we really do want to save the world. And all those people in that movie that were really making those efforts, they come off as superheroes.

And that really resonates with me. I keep thinking about the ending of that movie over and over again. And I'm looking forward to watching it again when it comes out on Netflix. If you've just seen the movie, or if now having heard all of this, you want to go see the movie, just keep one thing in mind afterward when you want to learn more, as Sarah was just saying, planetary.org. Because we take this as seriously, but I think with a touch of humor, as this movie does. Don't look up. Thank you, everybody, friends and colleagues, for helping us close out this discussion of a terrific movie that I hope becomes a big hit.

As you heard a few moments ago from Sarah Alamed, DART, the Double Asteroid Redirection Test, launched a few days ago toward its 2022 impact on asteroid Dimorphos, the small companion to Didymos. You also heard Sarah say that Adam McKay participated in the celebration of that launch. Here's the message the director of Don't Look Up recorded for NASA. Hi, I'm Adam McKay, director of Don't Look Up. Our movie is about three scientists who try desperately to warn the planet of an impending doomsday comet and are ignored.

Our movie's made up. It's a comedy. But in fact, the brilliant scientists at NASA are actually launching a mission. It's called DARNT, the Double Asteroid Redirection Test. And what they're gonna test is, can you send up a mission that can deflect an asteroid and steer it away from Earth if, God forbid, something like that were ever to happen? Remember to keep an eye out for it. It's going to be spectacular. It's time for What's Up on Planetary Radio.

Here's the chief scientist of the Planetary Society, Bruce Betts. And I have a question for you from Ben Owens in Australia. When are you going to interview Bruce's dog? I guess it's actually a question for me. Yeah, and it's two dogs, technically. Not technically. I mean, there are two dogs. Literally.

You can interview him anytime. Max, the 200-pound Connie Corso, is very talkative. And Gracie, the pit bull, aims to please. We'll put that on the calendar. So stay tuned, Ben. We're ready to hear about the night sky now, including the dog star. the dog star uh you're gonna have to be awake in the pre-dawn east south sorry that one was off the cuff but it's up there um also up there in the pre-dawn but really tough low down is reddish mars but it'll start rising in a few weeks right now of course the two things to look at is the lineup of planets in the early evening west with the lowest and furthest west being super bright Venus, and then yellowish Saturn, and then very, very bright Jupiter, all lined up, and they're hanging out together.

Soon they'll start descending. So we've got the rest of December to play with them easily, so make sure you check them out. Also on the 13th and 14th, the Geminids meteor shower peaks. They're usually the best shower of the year with 100 plus meteors per hour, but only from a dark site, not where we live. This year, gibbous moon gibboos will wash out the dimmer meteors. Still, it's the best shower of the year Alright, on to this week in space history It was 1962

And Mariner 2 became the first spacecraft to fly by another planet Or at least fly by and take data And that was Venus And then 10 years later The last humans were walking on the moon And then leaving the moon this week in 1972 Apollo 17 on the moon and then leaving the moon this week in 1972, Apollo 17, on the moon and leaving the moon. We move on to random space facts.

Lovely. For reference, a little quick background. Density of ice, water ice, normal pressures is around one, around the gram per cubic centimeter, just like water. And again, we're planetary scientists for the moment, so we're just getting kind of close, nothing precise. And rock is around three in those units. There are only three moons in the solar system that have an average density over three, indicating they're quite rocky, which is Io, the Moon, and Europa. Besides those three, there's only one other that's above two even,

and that's barely above two, and that's Triton, Moon of Neptune. Everything else is below that and indicating the icy nature of those moons, at least generally, or porous. A bunch of lightweights in our solar system. There are. Well, not a lot of rock moons, at least generally, or porous. A bunch of lightweights in our solar system. There are. Well, not a lot of Rockies, just a lot of Bullwinkles.

All right. We got a big contest here. Oh, yeah. We got to get there. Okay. Sorry. I asked you, where in the solar system, other than Earth, is there a feature named after Dr. Seuss?

And I note, probably not a real doctor, but a heck of a guy. How'd we do? Great, it sounds like. We actually did. I bet you expected a few more rhymes or poems than we normally get. And we got them. And we also had more entries than we usually get, because who doesn't love Dr. Seuss, right? If he's a winner, it's the first time in three and a half years. He is a past winner, but it's been that long. It's Elijah Marshall from Australia. He said, Seuss is a crater on the surface of Mercury named in honor of Theodor Geisel. Since Dr. Seuss was his pen name, It was named by the IAU in 2012. He says, thanks for the rabbit hole, Dr. Betts.

It was great fun. That's what I try for. A crater on Mercury. Mercury where they name craters after artists and authors and the like. Elijah, congratulations. We're going to tell MIT, the Space Exploration Initiative, to send you a copy of Into the Anthropocosmos, that terrific book by Ariel Ekblah. And thank you to everybody who commented on how much you enjoyed that interview with Ariel a couple of weeks ago.

I did, too. Into the Anthropocosmos, a whole space catalog from the MIT Space Exploration Initiative from the MIT Press. Not surprisingly, I do have a bunch more stuff here. I think you're going to enjoy it. First of all, we do have an image, a picture of the crater. It was provided, the link to it, by Keith Landa in Connecticut. Thank you, Keith. And we'll post that link on this week's show page, planetary.org slash radio.

It's a messenger image. Edwin King in the UK said that no astronomical feature has yet been named after the physicist Hans Seuss, or Seuss apparently, but it's spelled S-U-E-S-S. Though there are craters on the moon and Mars named after his grandfather, Edouard, and an asteroid after his father, Franz Edouard. Let's go into the rhymes. This first one, Robin Stewart in Washington sent a long one, which we don't have time to read all of, but it was a very nice tribute to Theodor Geisel, Dr. Seuss.

He finished it with this, though. It's all thanks to Dr. Bruce that I found the crater known as Seuss. He finished it with this, though. It's all thanks to Dr. Bruce that I found the crater known as Seuss. Best rhyme ever. Thought you might like that. From Bo Garner in Virginia, I eagerly await the sequel to Green Eggs and Ham in which Sam I.M. tries eating freeze-dried ice cream in this crater and says that nothing's greater, not even a tater. For those of you who don't recognize that nickname for a potato, well. Gene Lewin in Washington. Craters out on Mercury are named for artists from history.

The man creating Cindy Lou Who, his name selected by the IAU. So there you'll find one named for Seuss answering this query from Dr. Bruce. It's a theme. Kent Murley in Washington. Don't have time for all of it, but here's the last stanza once again. A last minute crater found on Mercury should be named for the best of humanity. A doctor, an artist, a rhymer, all three drawing curved huts got Seuss a trophy. It's true. It's a little obscure, the hut part, but yes, indeed, if you read enough of the books, you'll know what they're talking about here. From Chris Mills in Virginia, a rock hit the planet with such a great whack that it threw out ejecta, both golden and black. But sightseeing tours there would not be easy, since days are quite hot and the nights are so freezy. That's the technical term. They're freezing.

One more in the style that Dr. Seuss might have used, and it's from our poet laureate, Dave Fairchild in Kansas. Would you like a feature, Seuss? The IAU is asking youse. I would not like it in the stars. I would not like it out on Mars. I would not like it here or there. I would not like it anywhere. Okay, I guess I could agree. A crater out on Mercury. Wow. I hope you have some green eggs and ham fans. Some very talented listeners. Yeah, aren't they?

Thank you to all of you, whether I was able to read it or not. We appreciate all the wonderful efforts. And hopefully you'll appreciate this next contest from Bruce. I'm racking my brain to put it into a Seussical verse, but it's just too hard. So I'm giving you the straight. So Galileo, famous dude, discovered the four later named Galilean satellites, the big moons of Jupiter in 1610-ish. They later got named the Galilean moons or Galilean satellites. When was the next moon of Jupiter discovered and what moon was it?

Go to planetary.org slash radio contest. Cool. You have until the 15th. That would be December 15 at 8 a.m. Pacific time to get us the answer for this one and possibly win yourself a Planetary Society kick asteroid rubber, because we got a million of them. Well, actually, we don't. We're going to run out at some point. But for now, you still have a shot.

I'm going to go. I'm not wearing a hat. I have seen a doe, and I'm saying goodbye to Matt. Everybody go out there, look up at the night sky, and think about making up Seuss rhymes on the spot and how bad that can go. Thank you and good night. Bad Lee. Bad Lee.

I just want to say that it's probably a good thing that your science books for kids are not rhyming. He's Bruce Betts, the chief scientist for the Planetary Society. He writes great books for kids and he joins us every week here for What's Up. Planetary Radio is produced by the Planetary Society in Pasadena, California, and is made possible by its members who are always looking up. Planetary.org slash join is the place to become one of us. Mark Hilverda and Jason Davis are our associate producers. Josh Doyle composed our theme, which is arranged and performed by Peter Schlosser.

Ad Astra.