Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - A Microphone on Mars?

Episode Date: April 14, 2003

What would you sound like on Mars? Berkeley researcher Greg Delory and the Planetary Society have developed the Mars Microphone, so that we can find out.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is Planetary Radio. Music What would your voice sound like on Mars? Here's what you'd hear from Ray Bradbury. This is Ray Bradbury calling to you from Planet Mars. Here's what you'd hear from Ray Bradbury. This is Ray Bradbury calling to you from the planet Mars. Yes, it's really Ray Bradbury's voice, electronically modified to simulate what he would sound like standing on the surface of Mars, if he could do such a thing without a spacesuit. But you'd also want a Mars microphone, wouldn't you? Well, there really is one, and it's waiting for a ride to the red planet.

We'll use an Earth-bound microphone to hear from Greg DeLore, a senior fellow at Berkeley's Space Sciences Lab, about this and some of his other projects. New moons, water on Mercury, and a new trivia contest when Bruce Betts drops in. And Emily answers a question about the wild and crazy colors of Jupiter's moon Io. Hi, I'm Emily Lakdawalla with questions and answers.

A listener asked, what makes Io yellow? The simple answer is that Jupiter's innermost moon Io's surface is yellow because of sulfur. But this answer is not as simple as it seems. The bright sulfur yellow color that we are familiar with should only occur at the temperatures and pressures common on the Earth's surface. If yellow sulfur on Earth is heated, it turns orange. If it is cooled, the color fades to white, getting brighter and whiter as it cools. The surface of most of Io is so cold, minus 150 degrees Celsius, that sulfur on Io should be brilliantly white, but Io is most definitely yellow.

Even stranger, Galileo mission scientists observe that when Io passes through Jupiter's shadow, which blocks the sun cooling the moon further, the surface actually darkens, not brightens as you would expect. What's going on with the surface of Io? Is it sulfur at all? Stay tuned to Planetary Radio to find out. Greg Delorey, do we catch you in your office at UC Berkeley? Yeah, I'm sitting here at the Space Sciences Lab in my office at Berkeley. And what is the Space Sciences Lab and the Berkeley Space Physics Research Group?

Well, the Space Sciences Lab in general at Berkeley is a large collection of a very diverse group of space scientists that study everything from the ionosphere to electric and magnetic fields in space and radiation and the sun to ultraviolet astronomy to infrared astronomy. We also have a group that analyzes meteors and meteor fragments on the Earth. We have a science and space education group, pretty wide range, really. Our specialty is in actually building instruments. We build instruments that go on NASA rockets, satellites, high-altitude balloons, hopefully at some point planetary landers. Yes, we also have planetary orbiters as well, our global surveyor included.

We're going to get to one of those lander instruments that the Planetary Society has had a lot to do with in a moment. But this sounds like a pretty good place for somebody with broad interests in space science. It's a great place, actually. I started out here as a graduate student about ten years ago. I didn't really think that I would stay, but there are so many diverse opportunities and so many things going on, and also a lot of what we call space flight projects, that is projects that are building instruments that are going to fly and really take measurements

ongoing pretty much all the time. It's an incredible arena in which to be in, also a place where you can really forge your own path if you're aggressive and have enough of a vision, utilize the diverse skill sets and experience we have here to forge some great new directions. And I get the feeling that you're happy to still be in the Bay Area, too. Well, I guess so. Born and raised in San Francisco, went to UC Berkeley for physics undergrad and graduate. I didn't exactly plan it that way. Space Sciences Lab kind of came along and ruined all my plans for seeing the world and moving around. But yeah, I have to say,

things have worked out very well. Also, I should mention we have a new center here associated with the Space Sciences Lab, which is relevant to my most recent research, which is called the Center for Integrative Planetary Sciences, headed up by Jeff Marcy. So I actually have a joint appointment as a senior fellow between the Space Sciences Lab and the New Center for Integrative Planetary Sciences. We should say that while you always come home to Berkeley in the Bay Area, you've certainly made your travels, and we'll probably talk a little bit more about that after the break. But let's talk about that instrument you would very much like to see on a lander, in fact,

was on an ill-fated lander of about three, four, three and a half years ago, I guess. Oh, has it been that long? I'm afraid so. Yeah, most Planetary Society members, I think, are aware that Planetary Society made history by being the first private nonprofit space interest group to fund and develop a planetary instrument. And that instrument was called the Mars Microphone. Our lab became involved through Janet Luman, who's a notable planetary scientist here, who knew Louis Friedman, the executive director,

and they had talked about ways to actually get an acoustic sensor of some kind on another planet. Janet had done some early research in looking at how one might get a microphone to work in an environment such as Mars. The ideas kind of grew from there, and before we knew it, we had an opportunity on Mars Polar Lander. I joined the team and pretty much headed up the development of the instrument starting a few years ago. It culminated with us actually building a flight unit and putting it on the Mars Polar Lander. actually building a flight unit and putting it on the Mars Polar Lander. And, of course, in late 1999, we were waiting in the Science Operations Center with bated breath for the first signals back from the craft, which, of course, never occurred, and due to the loss of the vehicle.

Yeah, for anybody who doesn't remember this, and I certainly do, along with about 3,000 people who were down the street from JPL at Planet Fest that the Planetary Society was putting on. And it was one of the great disappointments in the history of the Society or in space exploration when that lander was lost. But hopefully you're going to get another shot, right? Well, yeah. The loss of MPL was a great disappointment, not only for us in the Planetary Society,

but also for friends and colleagues that I developed relations with during the operations who had spent many more years of their careers in much bigger budgets, unfortunately, preparing for that mission and for getting the most science out. But the microphone, I think, did attract an incredible worldwide interest. And, frankly, we were unprepared for that level of attention here at space i'd like to let we were uh... inundated with the press and then soon after the demise of mtl we were also uh...

subject to a number of inquiries from future space missions that might like to include a microphone as part of a mars lander scenario uh... one of those was the net lander mission which is actually a mark mission uh... conceived and developed by the French space agency called CNES, C-N-E-S. And they were very excited about including a microphone instrument and very accommodating. We were involved in the very early stages of planning that mission.

We had a lot of input into the design. Really, it was looking quite good for a while, budget problems and political turmoil and in france and france and also uh... the current world situation kind of put netlander on indefinite hold unfortunately uh... we had another shot at uh... the dual rovers which are in preparation now unfortunately that we became involved i think too late that was already under development by the

time mars polar lander was happening and so we were just unable to be added on. But we still have a high level of interest from some of the Mars scout proposals that are now being studied for a possible mission in 07. And while we don't have any confirmed flight opportunities, I've got pretty good hopes that we're going to get another couple of chances, I hope, you know, before the decade is out anyway. Have you thought at all about why the public fascination with the idea of a microphone on Mars took on such import? I certainly have thoughts based on my own, you know, personal feelings

and also just going through the experience of being the subject of that kind of attention during the Mars Polar Lander mission. I think probably the best analogy to make is to the camera. You look at cameras in lander and planetary exploration, initially I think back in the 60s many scientists concluded it counted the utility of a camera. They said we're not going to learn that much science, it's heavy, it takes power, we'd rather fly other instruments that take very specific measurements to tell us things about the surface. And yet, today, no one would think of sending a lander to

Mars without a camera. And I think, in large part, that is due to the public involvement. People can easily relate to seeing images, understanding the environment from a personal perspective, from a virtual perspective, if you will. It certainly really does involve all of us, scientists and the public alike, with a deeper personal connection to the mission than would otherwise be possible if all we were looking at were squiggly lines coming back from sensors that didn't show up in any pictures. Also, I think some real good science is coming out of the imagery now, as spectrometers and spectral analysis and 3D imaging and rover navigation have become pretty much standard fare.

So now you draw the analogy with the microphone. Obviously, people can relate to hearing things. People wonder what it's like to be on the surface of another world, and sight, of course, is only one sense. If you add the sense of hearing, again, it just piques our natural curiosity about what it would be like to walk on the surface of Mars and hear the wind blow sand and dust around and any other noises that we can't even imagine.

Yeah, I admit that I'm one who can't wait for your microphone to make it on some mission because, well, I'm a radio person. Of course I care about sound, and I just am fascinated by this. You talked about the weight and other costs of sending a camera, but weight was not nearly as much of a factor in considering the Mars microphone. No, the microphone is actually a fairly simple device to implement. Again, not to undemphasize the effort involved in making any space flight instrument, but certainly weight otherwise known as mass,

which we measure in grams, was pretty small for a Mars microphone, about 50 grams, which is a few ounces, and the volume was a small box, about a half an inch high and a couple inches on its side, and also very low power, you know, less than a tenth of a watt under most circumstances. So, yeah, we really are talking about a tiny, unobtrusive instrument, and this is one reason why the microphone has had so many opportunities, I think, is because it really doesn't ask a lot of Lander systems, you know, on anything that it's trying to, quote, piggyback on, which is how we ran in MPL, sort of piggybacking on a Russian experiment.

In fact, the lander systems didn't even really know we were there. Of course, NASA knew, but I compared us to the mite on the back of a flea on the back of a dog kind of thing in terms, the levels of removal we had from the main systems. We don't want to give anybody the idea that you're sitting on your hands while you wait for a piggyback ride to Mars for the Mars microphone. We should, when we come back from a break, talk about at least a couple of the other projects that you're involved with. Certainly.

I'd be happy to. Well, we will take a break. Planetary Radio will continue right after this. This is Buzz Aldrin. When I walked on the moon, I knew it was just the beginning of humankind's great adventure in the solar system. That's why I'm a member of the Planetary Society, the world's largest space interest group. The Planetary Society is helping to explore Mars. We're tracking near-Earth asteroids and comets.

We sponsor the search for life on other worlds and we're building the first ever solar sail. You can learn about these adventures and exciting new discoveries from space exploration in the Planetary Report. The Planetary Report is the Society's full-color magazine. It's just one of many

member benefits. You can learn more by calling 1-877-PLANETS. That's toll-free 1-877-752-6387. And you can catch up on space exploration news and developments at our exciting and informative website, PlanetarySociety.org. The Planetary Society, exploring new worlds. We are back with Greg Delore, a senior fellow at the Silver Space Science Lab. That's the full name at the Berkeley Space Physics Research Group. Greg, I said that we wanted to talk about some of the other things that you're involved with,

and we should say that there is another organization, sort of a sister group to the Planetary Society, called the Mars Society, and you've done some very interesting work with them. Well, yes. Much to my surprise, I had an opportunity to spend two weeks at what's called the Mars Desert Research Station, and this is basically a two-week Mars mission simulation that has been set up by the Mars Society, and I think it's part of the Mars Society creator Bob Zubrin's vision

for trying to cultivate a group of scientists and engineers and individuals who are thinking along the lines of what kinds of science investigations and technologies we need for when people are actually spending a sufficient amount of time on the surface of Mars to get real science done. I've seen pictures of this lab, and it's really designed to simulate not a colony, but a group that would be visiting Mars, perhaps the first humans on that planet. I think so. I think the goal was really, you know, one of the first crews kind of idea, a crew being six scientists in this case.

So there were six of us with a wide variety of backgrounds living in what's called the HAB, short for habitat. The HAB was a cylindrical structure about two stories high, and it's no coincidence that the diameter of the structure is about the same as the space shuttle external fuel tank. So there was actually some planning and forethought that went into the structure. And the upper level had some small cottage-like staterooms about the size of closets and a kitchen, eating, and work area, and the lower area had two pseudo-airlocks for use and lab space.

And the idea in spending your time at MDRS is actually to engage in a whole class of procedures that one would actually do on the surface of Mars. So, for example, when we were outside, we were always wearing these, well, for lack of a better word, spacesuits. Of course, they weren't really closed off from the outside air, but we did have air circulating with fans, and we had kind of a heavy cloth exterior to simulate some of the, how should I say, exterior to simulate some of the, how should I say, user difficulties one might have in actually trying to get field work done in a heavy suit. Right. And we used all-terrain vehicles to get around, and we planned field investigations.

We had a geologist, a biologist, a space scientist, which was me. I was also the commander for that particular mission. We had at least several engineers and a space station controller from Houston. The Mars Asset Research Station got a lot of media attention, I think. I think it did during the first rotation. There were many rotations, that is, two-week cycles of different individuals coming in and out. I was on the second rotation, and during that time we had at least two television crews visit

and a number of interested tourists and passers-by stopped by to pop in. Yeah, it certainly did attract attention. I've seen my picture in magazines everywhere between here and France. We had a French participant as well who really did a lot in publicizing it over in Europe as well. So we really did get a lot of attention, I think, and it was really a lot of fun. For someone like me who's used to thinking of things up on the stars or landing on other planets, looking at Utah and seeing the geology borne out right in front of you,

fossils and shells and signs of extremophiles, which are organisms that can survive under extreme conditions, just right out at your feet, was very compelling and certainly made me think about the possibilities for what we can do in those lines of investigations on other planets. Sounds great, but after two weeks, were you ready to get back to the Golden Gate? Yeah, that's what I love about the Bay Area is that it's a great place to live, it's a great place to leave and come back to.

Yeah, two weeks was, I think, about my particular tolerance this time around, given the level of facilities and preparation we had. I think I could have gone longer, certainly. I share Bob Zubrin's vision of human beings as being rugged and tough people, hopefully tougher than we think we are. So, you know, two weeks was about right for comfort. I think that people could go longer, though. Let's turn in the few minutes we have left to some other research that you were telling me

you've only just gotten involved with in the last year, and that is, well, beyond the search for water elsewhere in the solar system, but certainly very much wrapped up in that as well. Certainly. The search for water in the solar system is one of the key scientific goals that I think is arising in the various space science and planetary science communities. It really is a unifying element that ties in the possibilities for past or present life, the climate histories of planets.

for past or present life, the climate histories of planets. And for Mars, whose surface appears to be marred by a long history of liquid erosion, at least that we believe, from geomorphological evidence looking at the images, the question about where the water went is a big one. And one of the theories is that it's buried beneath the surface. And so my most recent research project, me and my co-investigators, are actually experimenting with novel low-frequency electromagnetic sounding gear, which actually uses naturally occurring electric and magnetic fluctuations that nature provides us,

from solar wind and the ionosphere and from lightning and from charged dust and from any other source that produces electricity. And these low-frequency waves will interact with the subsurface in different ways depending upon what's beneath the subsurface. And when there are things like water, which are very electrically conducted, we can actually sense them by looking at changes in these fields at the surface. So it's a way of probing the subsurface without actually digging and potentially going many kilometers deep in the search for water. We think this is going to be a very powerful and compelling tool to help uncover the water history of Mars and perhaps other planetary environments.

When you say low frequency, you're not kidding, right? Indeed not. We're looking at frequencies of around a cycle per second. In fact, in some cases, maybe even a hundredth or a thousandth of a cycle per second. And those are called ULF waves, ultra-low frequency. Then there's ELF waves, which are extreme low frequency. So, yeah, we're talking about very slowly moving electric and magnetic field fluctuations. We only have about a minute left, Greg.

I'm sure that there's much more we could talk about, and hopefully you'll come back and do that another time. But where could people learn a little bit more about what you're up to and perhaps about the Mars microphone as well? Well, probably the best place is the Space Physics Research Group webpage, and you can find that at sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu. And there you'll find a listing of all of our projects and personnel and photos and images and multimedia. Let me see if I got that right.

sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu. That's right. And for anybody who wasn't writing quite as fast as me, of course, you'll be able to find that link and others related to the work Greg DeLore does, including the Mars microphone, at the planetary.org website, where you may be listening to this radio show right now. Just look on the page that we've set up for this show and you'll find a section showing you some interesting web links. Greg DeLore, I guess that's all the time we've got.

Please do come back again for another appearance on Planetary Radio. I've enjoyed it very much. I'd be happy to. Thank you. Greg Delore is a senior fellow researcher up at UC Berkeley, specifically the Space Science Lab at the Berkeley Space Physics Research Group. And Planetary Radio will continue in a moment. I'm Emily Lakdawalla, back with Q&A about the confusing nature of Io's color. Puzzled by the behavior of sulfur on Io, laboratory researchers subjected samples of sulfur to the harsh conditions at Io's surface. They discovered that several of Io's environmental factors can darken the color of sulfur to the harsh conditions at Io's surface. They discovered that several of Io's

environmental factors can darken the color of sulfur. Io's tenuous atmosphere provides little protection against the vacuum of space. Sitting in space near Jupiter, Io is bathed by solar ultraviolet radiation, galactic x-rays, and energetic charged particles. Scientists have found that sulfur is quickly yellowed by ultraviolet radiation and x-rays, and energetic charged particles. Scientists have found that sulfur is quickly yellowed by ultraviolet radiation and x-rays, even at frigid temperatures. Also, when placed in a vacuum, sulfur sublimates or evaporates until a powdery coating forms on its surface. And yet another form of sulfur, made up of chains of three or four sulfur atoms, may account for the riotous red seen in the deposits from Io's active volcanoes.

The sulfur spewed out from Io's plumes pollutes not only its surface, but also its neighbor moons Europa and Amalthea, giving them both a yellowish cast. Got a question about the universe? Send it to us at planetaryradio at planetary.org. Be sure to provide your name and how to pronounce it and tell us where you're from. And now, here's Matt with more Planetary Radio. Time for What's Up here in the universe that we call home. And our guest, our partner in crime here, is Bruce Betts,

the Director of Projects at the Planetary Society. Welcome back, Bruce. Thank you very much. I'm trembling with the excitement of discovery today. Well, let's discover. What have you got? We've got our five naked-eye planets still hanging naked-eye. We've got Mercury.

Catch it. It's going fast in the early evening, low on the horizon in the west-northwest. It is fading over the next couple weeks because it is going around, so we're seeing less of the planet lit as it goes around in its orbit, similar to the way we see the moon in different phases. We've got still Saturn high up in the evening over Orion, Jupiter extremely bright overhead, the brightest thing you're going to see up there, and then in the early morning sky you can see Venus extremely bright in the east, and Mars reddish far to the right of Venus.

Gee, if only something significant in space history had happened, you know, this week. Hmm. Oh, and that brings us to this week in space history. April 15th, 1972, Apollo 16 was launched. Apollo 17th, 1970, Apollo 13 returned home safely from space. Did you say Apollo 17? I'm sorry. 16. 16 was launched. 15th, 1970, Apollo 13 returned home safely from space. Did you say Apollo 17? I'm sorry.

16. 16 was launched. But then it sounded like you said Apollo 17, 19 something. It's just the random teen part of our program. We're trying to appeal to a different audience. April 15, Apollo 16 was launched. April 17, Apollo 13 returned. Those are different years.

Okay. Well, anything else in that category? Yes. April 19. That's 19. The Soviet Union launches Salyut 1, unofficially called Salyut 13. Not really. The first space station.

I'm so tired. Let's move on to random space facts Did you know that water ice may exist in the bottoms of craters at Mercury's poles Based upon radar data taken in recent years? No, I did not know that This is something like the findings of water in the shaded parts of craters on the moon Same concept as the moon And even though Mercury is close to the sun, gets extremely hot,

you have polar craters that are completely shadowed in the lower parts, and so they stay extremely cold because Mercury essentially has no atmosphere. I have a great product in mind that I think will work better with the moon ice better than the Mercury ice just because Mercury is so much farther away. And what would that be, Matt? Bottled water. Ready? Luna Aqua.

I think we can make a lot of money off of this. I'm sure. Okay, we'll take that up afterwards. Venture capitalists, give us a call. There you go. I'd like to move on to some new discoveries this last week. The solar system is getting nasty with moons. Oh, God.

Of course, it's always been nasty with moons, but now we're just finding that out. When will it ever end? We don't know. During this last week, another moon discovered for Saturn. Six new moons discovered for Jupiter. That brings Jupiter's total up to 58 and Saturn's to 31. Good Lord.

We're just, people are discovering like crazy these days with the big telescopes and fancy detectors and clever techniques. And so it's really been exploding. If you want the current total, go to planetary.org. We keep tracking the proliferation of moon discoveries. Isn't that amazing? You can't tell the players or the moons without a good website.

Can't know your moons without a program. Program's here. All right, trivia contest. Who is the only astronaut to have flown on all five space shuttles? The answer was, or is, Story Musgrave. Dr. Story Musgrave, who's flown on all five of them. And here is our winner.

We have another international winner. And, folks, this is random, folks. We're not fooling around here. We're not just trying to find the folks who live the farthest away. But our winner this week is, and your Spanish is much better than mine. How would you say Felix? Is that about right? Well, to overemphasize, Felix.

Felix. Okay, it doesn't really sound that way, but I wanted to hear you say it. Felix Zarate-Torres, who lives in, and we were trying to figure this out, Seccion Alameda Fraccionamiento Ojo de Acqua in Mexico. And that's just from growing up in these parts. You know, I'm a Southern California boy. I took French, I'm afraid. So pardon my French, Felix, but you are the winner of the Carl Sagan Memorial T-shirt prize for this week.

Congratulations. Congratulations. Moving on to this week's contest question, we're going to go with a simple one. What's the largest moon in the solar system? As we talk about all the small moons that are being discovered like crazy, what's the largest? The largest moon in the solar system. It's actually bigger than two planets. If you think you know the answer, or if you know where to look it up, here's how you can enter the contest for this week.

Go to planetary.org, follow the links to Planetary Radio, and it will tell you how to enter. I have one other piece of news note from the Society, a contest that people have about another week to get involved with, which is named the Astrobot. Astrobots are little characters, representations of Lego minifigures dressed for space that are on board the Planetary Society's DVDs

that carry four million names that will go to the surface of Mars on NASA's Mars Exploration Rover. What we're going to do with these characters is to have them tell their stories, their fictional stories, as they go to Mars, of what's going on with that. We need some fun names.

You've got until April 23rd to go to planetary.org to submit names for the two that will fly aboard the two different spacecraft. Any other limitations on who can enter this? Is it for kids or for anybody? This is wide open. This is anyone, international, kids, aliens, animals, whatever. Okay, well, you funny folks out there, because we know you're there. You entered last week's contest. Here's another chance to be creative.

And what do they win, Bruce, if they're chosen? Win? They should win something? Well, they win. They win a good feeling in their heart. No, they also will win a new kit coming out from Lego, a very extensive kit, a lunar exploration kit that includes rockets and landers and spiffy things coming out from the Lego company, our partner in this. And our undying gratitude. Exactly.

And fame beyond your wild – well, you'll at least get the kit, the Lego kit. So what do you think? Agua Luna or Luna Agua? I don't know. We can talk about it offline. Agua de Luna. Agua de Luna. Well, hurry down, folks.

It's soon to be in a market near you. Bruce, we're done, I think. Fabulous. Sounds good. Remember, people, look up in the night sky and think a happy childhood thought. Thank you and good night. Bruce Betts, the Planetary Society's Director of Projects with this week's What's Up.

Along with Bruce and Emily, Planetary Radio is created with the assistance of Charlene Anderson, Monica Lopez and Jennifer Vaughn. Lou Friedman is our Executive Producer. I'm Matt Kaplan. We'll be back next Monday with another brand new show. Have a wonderful week, everyone.