Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - Ice, Snow and Lava: Exploring Antarctica’s Mount Erebus

Episode Date: January 24, 2017

Earth’s southernmost active volcano may also be its most remote. Rosaly Lopes and Michael Carroll recently spent a few frigid days on the slopes of Antarctica’s Mount Erebus. What they learned may help us understand volcanos on other worlds.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A volcano in frigid Antarctica and a tribute to the last man to walk on the moon, this week on Planetary Radio. Welcome, I'm Matt Kaplan of the Planetary Society with more of the human adventure across our solar system and beyond. Intrepid explorers Rosalie Lopez and Michael Carroll return with the tale of their just-completed trip to the bottom of our planet. Wait till you hear about their adventure and what it means for our knowledge of other worlds. The Planetary Society's light sail is on display in London. Bill Nye will tell you where to find it. And you'll find out what 283 octillion Earths have to do with this week's space trivia contest answer when I'm joined by Bruce Betts for What's Up.

Emily Lakdawalla is the Planetary Society's senior editor. Emily, you posted a couple of absolutely stunning, gorgeous images from Saturn on the 19th, January 19th. Tell us about these. These are some images that Cassini took recently shortly after changing its orbit to one where the periapsis passes right between the F ring and the G ring. And what that means is that they get a lot closer to the rings and to the moons that are embedded in the rings. And so they're getting these amazing views of the weird little moons that are embedded in the rings and also of just striking structure within the rings themselves. Stanley Kubrick just called from beyond the grave. He wants to know if he can use these in the remake of the 2001 Space Odyssey trip sequence.

I know. They're pretty wild. And I'm just lost in imagining what these things would look like if you were actually standing on a ring particle. The things that we're seeing are at the very outer edge of the A ring. So this is a part of the ring system that's fairly dense. It's about roughly 50% transparent. And so that means that the ring particles aren't totally close together. Really, I'm having a hard time imagining what that would look like. Certainly, if you were standing on a ring particle, you could see lots of other ring particles around you. But I'm having trouble imagining what it would be like to be there. Talk about this first one first. There's some very delicate, lovely stuff going on here. Well, we're looking at a moon that was actually discovered by Cassini earlier on in the mission called Daphnis. It's within a gap called the Keeler gap in the rings. It's a gap that it

makes, but it also exerts these subtle effects on the edges of the gap. It makes these funny little scallop shapes. And there's this teeny, tiny, thin, faint ringlet that just kind of comes up and cups around the edge of the moon. And just thinking about the minute gravitational forces that make those shapes in the rings is just astounding. Nearly, or perhaps just as amazing is the second image here. Let me ask you something about this. You can see granularity in the rings. Is that an image artifact? Or are we looking at ring particles? It's actually neither. It's not an artifact. There is this granularity,

but you're also not seeing individual ring particles. It's a mix of little increases and decreases in density of ring particles. And also there's some shadows being thrown. So you have some vertical structure in the rings, all of which is too small to be seen in the actual image. All that you can see is this subtle patterning effect that those tiny ring particles make as they make shapes that we can't see, just their shadows. How much longer can we enjoy these kinds of images? Sadly, not very long. We've got about three more months in this particular orbit, so three more months to see the ring moons and the structures at the outer edge of the rings.

And then toward the end of April, Cassini will switch orbits to one that passes in between the ring system and the planet. And we'll be treated to a host of new, incredible images, the likes we've never seen before. But we'll be leaving the outer edge of the A ring and these ring moons behind. More to look forward to. But I'll tell you, these are must-see Saturn images. You can find them in that January 19th blog that Emily has posted at planetary.org. Thank you very much, Emily. Thank you, Matt.

She's our senior editor, the planetary evangelist for the Planetary Society, and a contributing editor to Sky and Telescope magazine. Bill Nye is the CEO of the Planetary Society. Lightsail again. Now, you'd think this spaceship was some kind of big deal. Yes, my spaceship. Yes. Smaller than a loaf of bread, but it's in the London Science Museum on display, our engineering model, the pieces we use for vibration testing and so on. There's a big sign that says, is it the future of spaceflight? Yes. Yes, it is. So we hope to fly the LightSail 2 later this year, as you may know. And I was at the International Solar Sailing Symposium this year in Kyoto, Japan. A lot of people have very big ideas for solar sails, but we are the organization that's actually

flying a solar sail. JAXA, Japanese Aerospace Exploration, is planning one in 2018. But we're flying actual light sails, actual spacecraft this year. Yes, as soon as Elon Musk is ready to give us a ride. And the Science Museum, they have these— I think he has some people helping out. It's not just him. Yeah, really. It's just Elon with a wrench. Falcon heavy, everybody.

27 engines. Three times as many engines as a Falcon 9. We're on the second flight. But you were going to say something, Matt, as always. I was going to say, Science Museum has this neat web page that we will link to from our show page that you can get to from planetary.org slash radio. Everybody's homepage. Everybody's homepage. You'd think.

There are a whole bunch of experts saying nice things about solar sails on that page. It really is an extraordinary technology. Once you get it in orbit, you can go just to all kinds of places for free. So this next time, we're starting at 700 kilometers of altitude. I hope to increase our altitude in weeks after launch. And we are a secondary payload with another mission called Prox-1, which the Air Force is flying with Georgia Tech. And the idea is for these very small spacecraft to maintain their relative position in orbit. So it's called station keeping for you Navy people.

maintain their relative position in orbit. So it's called station keeping for you Navy people. This would be another advancement in this democratization of space, these inexpensive spacecraft with really amazing capabilities because of the miniaturization of instruments and electronics that's going on these days. Very cool. And in the meantime, you can go see it at Science Museum in London. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Matt. That's the CEO of the Planetary Society, Bill Nye, the science guy. NASA and others celebrated the life and accomplishments of the late Gene Cernan this week. Here's our contribution to that celebration. A gathering called Space Fest attracts many astronauts each year.

It came to Pasadena in 2014. Here's a segment of the episode we aired in the week of May 26th that year. I want to share one more conversation with you. It's very special, and I want to thank Laura Danley and Apollo 17 Commander Gene Cernan for allowing me to record it. As you'll hear, Laura is the very accomplished curator of the beloved Griffith Observatory here in Southern California. All right, Miss Griffith Observatory. Hi, my name's Laura. Laura, so nice to meet you.

This all came about because when Matt saw me standing in line, I said, I'm about to fulfill a childhood dream. So he said, oh, I want to catch that, because really I must say two things. One is the photo of you on the moon all covered in dust is maybe my favorite space photo of all. Yeah, where we look like coal miners, right? Yes, and the look in your eyes. And, I mean, the closest I've ever been to being on the moon is gazing into your face in that photograph. And I thank you for that. It's absolutely beautiful. That photograph gets a lot of comments uh you know I get people saying send me the photograph and and want me to

sign it and because it's interesting you know people don't know what it's like up there and what how we were living and one thing I look at that myself I say you know is that was that pretty me but you know it looked literally looked like I just walked out of a coal mine. And it looked like you were having the time of your life. We were having the time of our life. You've got to enjoy those kind of things. And you're at Griffith. I am. I'm the curator at Griffith Observatory.

I'm an astrophysicist. I got my Ph.D. in astrophysics and was with NASA, the Hubble Project, for about 10 years, and then moved into education. So I should have said that from the outside. All that inspiration actually led to a real life. Education, that's one of the biggest freebies of the space program. It's inspire young dreamers to do what they didn't think they were capable of doing. Because I've always said the dreamers of the day are the doers of tomorrow.

Dream the impossible and then go out and make it happen. And how can you argue with me? No, how can you argue with me? I went to the moon and to most people that's still impossible. And so that's what it's really all about. And we got to find a new and exciting acronym for STEM. Science, technology, engineering, math. How boring does about this conversation the other night. I hate that term. How boring does that sound? Well, it's really the basis of everything we're capable of doing. But we've got to find a more upbeat acronym for what we're talking about. Because you say STEM to a kid, oh my god, put a mathematics

book in front of me. That's baloney. We've got to find, I'm involved with a couple, several kids' organizations. Probably the most important one to me is the National Fun Academy at the Naval Museum Foundation of Pensacola. And we use aviation and space as a hook. You get a kid's attention, make learning fun, you can teach them anything. Aviation is a hook. You get a kid's attention, make learning fun, you can teach them anything. Aviation is the hook. We're teaching them vector analysis, leadership, decision-making, math, weather, we give them all kinds of...

It's a massive, immersed STEM program and they don't know it. That's the point I'm making. They're having fun. They are. They don't know it. Learn some things along the way. If you add art and do STEAM. Pardon? If you add art to STEM and make it STEAM, would that be...

Well, you know, art is... Well, let me tell you. I've heard that. Let me put it this way. Going to the moon was not simply a technological experience. I've always said two different space programs. Earth orbit is one, and when you go to the moon, things change. Not only technologically different, it's philosophically different,

and it's spiritually different. Now, you can put those under the word art if you want to, but, you know, it's different, and you've got to cope with all those things. And you come back, and what do people want to know? How does it feel? What did you think? Were you scared? Did you feel any closer to God? Because the technology of Apollo is obsolete and long since been overshadowed by time. Today's technology is obsolete Monday morning.

There's a better, broader word than art for what I'm saying, philosophy, spirituality, and these kind of things. That never changes in people. That's a broader humanity because it is the human dream, which is why, again, the photograph is so powerful. How do you define a dream? An imagination or whatever? I mean, that's art in a way. That's philosophy. Did you think you'd go to the moon when you were a child,

or did you dream of going to the moon when you were a child? Ma'am, I'm older than water, okay? I'm older than water. There was no space program. They were still fighting World War II when I grew up. And I know World War II is something in history you'd think you remember. But no, there was no space program. I was in the Navy. My dream was to fly airplanes off aircraft carriers like those guys did in the Pacific. And that's all I wanted to do. And, you know, did that,

made two cruises. Five years later, I was ready to get out of the Navy. And the Navy says, we want to send you to Marne or Carmel Carmel for more education. I said what the hell I didn't know I could still fly and it was at that time 1961 that Alan Shepard flew and I was asked how would I like to do that someday. My answer was by the time I get good enough, by the time I meet the requirements, there won't be anything left to do. All the pioneering will be over. It's another message for kids.

Don't ever count yourself out because you never know. And a message for the rest of us, too. Get going. Get doing. You know, because no reason to wait. Astrophysicist and Griffith Observatory curator Laura Danley and one of her lifelong heroes, Apollo 17 commander Gene Cernan, the last man to leave his footprints on the moon.

Rosalie Lopez and Michael Carroll arrive right after the break. This is Planetary Radio. Where did we come from? Are we alone in the cosmos? These are the questions at the core of our existence. And the secrets of the universe are out there, waiting to be discovered. But to find them, we have to go into space. We have to explore.

This endeavor unites us. Space exploration truly brings out the best in us. Unite us space exploration truly brings out the best in us Encouraging people from all walks of life to work together to achieve a common goal To know the cosmos and our place within This is why the Planetary Society exists our mission is to give you the power to advance space science and exploration. With your support, we sponsor innovative space technologies, inspire curious minds, and advocate for our future in space.

We are the Planetary Society. Join us. Welcome back to Planetary Radio. I'm Matt Kaplan. Jet propulsion lab volcanologist and senior research scientist Rosalie Lopez has visited volcanoes nearly everywhere they are found on Earth. They're helping her and the rest of us understand their sisters on other worlds. She has written several books about them, including a couple with outstanding space artist and science journalist Michael Carroll. I don't think either of them suspected

they would spend last Christmas at the summit of Mount Erebus, our planet's southernmost active volcano. I talked with them via Skype a few days ago. Rosalie was in her JPL office while Michael was at home in chilly Colorado. Rosalie and Michael, it is a joy to welcome you back to Planetary Radio, and I suppose back to a nice, warm, or relatively warm North America. Thanks for joining us again on the show. Thank you. I'm not sure that it's very warm here in Los Angeles at the moment. It's certainly wetter than Antarctica. I have no sympathy for Rosalie. It is snowing here, but I'm toasty inside. Well, I'm sure that where both of you are is far warmer than what you experienced in Antarctica.

I have to tell you, I am hugely envious having seen some of those pictures that you forwarded, Michael. And our listeners can see some of them as well on this week's show page that they can reach from planetary.org slash radio. Rosalie, why were you down there? First of all, it was a dream of mine to go to Antarctica and go to Mount Erebus. Michael and I came up with this project that we would go to Antarctica under the National Science Foundation's Artists and Writers Program and actually do a project that's going to be a book on comparing landscapes in Antarctica with landscapes we might expect to see in the outer solar system, particularly on moons such as Enceladus,

Europa, and of course Erebus is an active volcano, so Io 2. And I read that Erebus is the southernmost volcano on this planet anyway. That's right, and it's a very, very exciting place to be. Also, I had never been to an active volcano in Antarctica, but that's the only continent I was missing. So that means the bucket list is complete. Michael, you're not quite the volcano-crazed person that we know Rosalie is, but you got to go along on the trip. Yeah, I was thrilled. Antarctica is called the harsh continent for good reason. It's a very alien environment. It was a thrill and an honor to be

there. We were chosen as participants in exactly the same way that the scientific teams are chosen through the NSF. They use an external panel of experts. And we felt very fortunate that they chose us to send down there as one of really the few groups that they send every year. You were down there, what, in December? I mean, I think you told me that you got to spend Christmas there. Yeah, we were on Mount Erebus for Christmas Day. We were up at the summit on Christmas Day. We spent about a week in McMurdo first, training, and then went up to a glacier to acclimate and then on up to the volcano.

I would imagine that McMurdo was relative paradise compared to your living situation at Mount Erebus. I mean, McMurdo seems like a little village. Yes, McMurdo is like a college town, or almost like being in a dorm and going to college. We were going to classes, we were going to the cafeteria to get food. We were in rooms that looked very much like college dorm rooms. But after being on Erebus and being camping on a glacier, we felt McMurdo was real luxury. Yeah, it was like a five-star hotel coming back there. Then I assume Erebus was maybe, oh, I don't know, half a star. I saw pictures of tents.

Yeah, we were in what they call Scott tents. They were designed by Robert Falcon Scott. Wow. And we were on those at the glacier, at Fang Glacier. They require you to spend two nights there on your way up so that you can get acclimated to the altitude. And it's cold and it's windy. And if you turn the stove on inside the tent, you have to leave the door open. So you can't warm things up much, not to balm you there. Because of the danger of common monoxide from the stove so you you really can't warm up uh exactly being at fang was uh challenging but the fang glacier is at 9 000 feet

so you go there first a helicopter drops you off there and there were just three of us, Michael and I, and our mountaineer was actually fabulous. And the three of us stayed there for two nights and we felt fine other than very cold. And after that, the helicopter came again and picked us up and took us to the, what's called the lower Erebus hut, which is at 10,500 feet. And that's where we spent the rest of our time, except when we went up to the summit of Erebus, which is over 12,000 feet. Wow. Can you give us an idea of how isolated Mount Erebus is? This whole season, they only allowed 32 people to overnight or spend more than one night on the mountain. So not many people get up there. Believe it or not, there is internet connection.

They have diesel generated electricity and a little bit of heat in this hut. No running water. You melt snow. But everybody sleeps in tents up there. So nobody sleeps in the heated hut. It's just to go in for mealtime and for emergencies. So it's very remote. You only get there by helicopter. And you only get out by helicopter. And they're very touchy about having good weather. So you feel pretty isolated. Rosalie, did it pay off? I mean, did you see the parallels between this volcano and its surroundings and what may be waiting for us on some of those other worlds like Europa and Solidus?

Oh, absolutely. In fact, the trip went even better than I expected. It was spectacular. We got mostly spectacular weather. In fact, the weather was so good nearly all of the time that we're actually able to come back from Antarctica a few days early because we had allowed some time for bad weather, but we didn't really need it. And we saw spectacular landscapes, which at the current resolution, there are many things that we can't see on Europa and Enceladus. For example, we expect that there'll be fumaroles like venting, like we have on Erebus, and they build these spectacular ice caves underground, and also these towers of ice that can be 30, 40 feet high. We may well find those

when we explore the moons of the outer solar system close up, you know, maybe on Pluto, the moons of the outer solar system close up, you know, maybe on Pluto, also on Triton. In fact, Michael had painted a nice tower like that on Triton for a previous book of ours. So we are using these landscapes on Earth to really imagine what the landscapes on other worlds will look like. Yeah, this is really the essence of astronomical art. This is how it works. You look for geologic analogs on Earth that can teach you what you may see on the human level out in the outer solar system. So Erebus was a perfect place, a perfect playground for us to do our research.

Michael, for you, with your artist's eye, how inspiring was this? Had you seen anything like this before? No. I travel a lot, and I had never seen anything like this. It was wonderful. The ice towers take on all kinds of bizarre forms. Some of them look like they were designed by Dr. Seuss. And they billow this steam out of them.

And the ones up on the upper flanks of the volcano have microbes in them that are unique to Antarctica. You can't go in there unless you have a special suit. We were not allowed into those caves because of the delicate biomes. We climbed into some caves lower down. They call them dirty caves because they've had people in them before. And they were just magical. The blue light, the strange ice crystals, just an environment that would inspire any artist. But when you put it in the context of the outer solar system, it is perfect. Rosalie, I wonder about your thoughts about, you know, the fact that once again, life found a way on this volcano.

Does that, once again, make you think about what we may find out there elsewhere in the solar system? Oh, yes, absolutely. Near volcanic funerals or volcanic vents, that's where you have the heat, where you might find or have a great probability of finding life, as well as in the oceans under those icy crusts. But you need to get to those oceans. You know, if there are ice caves in those moons, those would be a prime target for exploration. And the ice caves really blew me away. I mean, Erebus is a wonderful volcano, but, you know, as you know, I've seen quite a lot of volcanoes.

But I don't want to sound blasé, but the ice caves, I had never seen anything like them, and they were just magical. I felt like I had been transported to the set of Frozen, you know, the movie Frozen. Right, right. to the set of Frozen, you know, the movie Frozen. Right, right. Well, you know, Matt, there's another analog that we found interesting, and that is Mars. Mars, of course, has caves. We've seen cave collapses on the sides of volcanoes on Mars.

So there may be microbial groups within some of those caves on Mars, and there may even be water that's turning into some of these ice crystals that we've seen. But also McMurdo is a great example of how people are going to have to live when they go to another place like Mars. Same kind of situations in terms of survival and being careful with each other's health, cleanliness, taking care of the environment, lots of different logistical parallels as well. So McMurdo felt like a lot of the Mars studies

that I've been a part of. It was very interesting in that way. I'm so glad you brought that up because I was about to. You know, our boss, the science guy, he likes to talk about, you want to live on Mars? Try living on Antarctica, but then bring all your air with you as well or make it there. That's right. Yeah. Rosalie, did you have that same impression that this is a taste of what future Martians are going to have to experience?

Yes. And Michael and I talked about it and I found it so interesting that it was one of the most interesting things about the trip. McMurdo is an American base. There was a New Zealand base nearby, but Antarctica doesn't really belong to anybody. I don't know if a lot of people know that, but there is an Antarctica treaty, so the territory doesn't belong to anybody. And you are in this small base or colony where the environment outside can kill you. There is very much this feeling of watching out for the dangers. Weather can change very quickly, false sense of security. So there's a lot of training that you have to go through just to make you really realize that you are in an environment

that is trying to kill you. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that they spent so much time training you and making sure you were up to the challenge of being on that mountain, on that volcano. All right, give us a preview of this book. First of all, when do you think we might actually see it become available? Well, we're shooting for the end of the year. We hope to have it out at the holidays for 2017. We're going to talk a little about history, the lure of the poles, exploration. We'll, of course, talk about landscapes in the outer solar system. And then Rose Lee is going to spend a lot of time on the chapter about how Mount Erebus works, how it's plumbed and such.

Mount Erebus works, how it's plumbed and such. And then we'll talk about the essence of Erebus as a planetary analog and what we may see in the future that echoes what we saw down there. We also will talk about McMurdo as the analog for a future Mars colony or Moon colony or wherever you decide to put the colony. We thought that was really interesting. There are all kinds of parallels. We already talked about some of them, but also in terms of health. There is a little hospital at McMurdo, but it has limited resources. Lodobo has limited resources, so we had to go through some very strict physical tests and scrutiny to make sure that we were healthy. Because if something happens to you, and also it's one reason why they make sure to train you that you have to be very careful, it's not easy to get you out of Antarctica. The weather can really delay your flights.

Now, of course, if you are on the moon or Mars, I guess there will be a much more comprehensive hospital facilities. But even then, there may be issues that you can't actually really deal with. And same problems about not contaminating the environment. You know, we had to be careful not to leave anything behind, you know, including any human waste. So there are a lot of similarities and we weren't quite living in a bubble because we didn't have to bring our own air with us. But otherwise, it was similar. The parallels come right down to airlocks. Every door is a double door that latches because of the strong winds. They look like freezer doors. They're a big horizontal handle. The difference is you're keeping the cold air out, not in. We had an entire class on what to do with spills. The environment is so

delicate and stuff just doesn't go away. And so if you spill fuel, for example, if you're fueling a snowmobile or something, there's a protocol for protecting the environment for cleaning that up. So I would love to see what they do down there take place more commonly in other parts of the world where we live more often. Absolutely fascinating. A challenging place, but one that humans have learned to deal with, obviously, and hopefully we'll manage to do the same on Mars. Before we go, Rosalie, I thought you might want to say something about this other organization that you ended up holding up, what, a flag for,

Wings World Quest. Oh, yes. In fact, I belong to two organizations and took their flags. One is Wings World Quest. That is a society of women explorers and women scientists in particular who do field work for exploration,

you know, geologists and anthropologists and biologists. They have been a very supportive organization for me, and they gave me one of their flags to take and take a picture with and then give them a report of the trip. And the other is the Explorers Club, which is a larger organization for men and women, has been around, in fact, for much longer. Explorer Club flags have been to the moon and to the deep ocean and in all kinds of places. So I took one to Erebus as well. And in fact, it was the same flag that some years ago I took to Ita Ali volcano in Ethiopia. So that was very nice. Michael, are we going to see some artwork

coming out of this? You bet. I've already started a painting and just full of inspiration. You know, I was reflecting on how when Robert Falcon Scott set out for the South Pole, he advertised in the newspaper for people who would come along on the expedition. And he said, return unlikely. So exploration today does not have that moniker. We are very careful. We plan ahead. But it's still on the edge.

It's still something that's a risk and a risk worth doing because it pushes us as a species. And so I think Antarctica is really one of those last frontiers on Earth. Michael, Rosalie, welcome back once again from the edge. I look forward to seeing that book and Michael, some of that artwork that you're going to populate it with. And again, people can see some of those terrific photos of this adventure on Mount Erebus on the show page at planetary.org slash radio. Thanks again for joining us here on the show. Oh, thank you, Matt. Thank you so much. Rosalie Lopez, she's a planetary volcanologist and a senior research scientist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Michael Carroll is a science journalist and a space artist.

And they have worked together before on some spectacular books, highly recommended, and are about to do so again. And maybe we'll talk to them again when this new book appears. By the way, Michael Carroll, that quote that you heard, or that advertisement for exploration of Antarctica, he wanted people to know, he discovered after we talked, that it was actually Sir Ernest Shackleton, who had that kind of foreboding advertisement for joining him on a trip to the South Pole. Having said that, it's time for What's Up with Bruce Betts, the Director of Science and

Technology for the Planetary Society. Welcome back. Hi, Matt. Good to be back. We're going to jump right into what's up in the night sky because we've got so many really clever responses to this week's question. Most excellent. Venus and Mars have been getting closer together. I don't know if you've noticed in the early evening low in the low-ish in the west, super bright Venus, much dimmer to its upper left is reddish Mars, and they will continue to grow closer over the next couple weeks, and then they will separate again. But a neat view. You can also check out Jupiter rising in the east in the middle of the night, and Saturn in the pre-dawn east. We move on to this week in space history. First, a couple of dark notes. It is the 50th anniversary of the death of three Apollo

astronauts in the Apollo 1 launch pad fire. And then also this week was the anniversary of 1986, the Challenger disaster. And next week, the anniversary of the Columbia disaster, a bad, bad, bad, bad week in U.S. space exploration. So I wanted to end at least on, as we remember them, on a happier note. It is the 13th anniversary of the landing of Opportunity on Mars, and the rover's still working. That is a nice note to end on, but I'm glad you marked this time, because those heroes should be remembered every year. Indeed they should.

We move on to random space fact. Quick and efficient, thank you. You're welcome. The remains of five third stages of Saturn V rockets from the Apollo program are the most massive single pieces ever sent to the lunar surface. So the third stages that went and crashed on the moon are the heaviest things that went there. I'd utterly forgotten that those stages impacted the moon. Boy, too bad we weren't monitoring them with some orbiter or something. Well, I believe they did monitor them with seismometers they left around,

but maybe someone can tell me if that's true. Or I'll look at them. We move on to the trivia question, and I asked you about how many squished-up Earths would fit inside the planet Saturn. I hear from you that we have a tremendous response. We did, and I will leave it to you. See if you agree with me that these get increasingly strange. Our winner, first of all, and I think a first-time winner, though a longtime listener, Norman Kassoon in the UK.

He said about 764 squished-up Earths would fit inside Saturn if it were hollow, and that Saturn's about 95 times as massive as Earth, as 93 times the surface area. So you could put 95 Earth masses in it, I suppose. Did he get that right? Yeah. So within rounding error, depending on how you round it, I had 763, he had 764. It's all good. A lot is really the point.

Congratulations, Norman. You are going to win the same prize package we're going to give away this time, the Planetary Radio t-shirt, now available in both men's and women's styles, a 200-point itelescope.net astronomy account, the worldwide nonprofit network of telescopes, and also a Planetary Society, say it with me now, rubberous. Thank you so much. Now, here's some of the other fun stuff that we got. Nadav Mayet in Israel. If you had another one and a half Earths to spare, you could make the rings. Well, we'll just plan ahead. Samantha Glick in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

118,666 Plutos, or here's the one I doubt, but you know, maybe you'll have a feel for it, 27 trillion squished up Comet 67Ps could fit in Saturn. Huh, yeah, I really have no inherent feel for how many Comet 67Ps will fit in Saturn. Well, stay tuned because the math is going to become more complex. fit in Saturn. Well, stay tuned because the math is going to become more complex. Ilya Schwartz in Maryland suggested that we pay more attention to Jupiter because you can fit 1,299 Earths in there. So if you're planet shopping for Earth storage, that's where you get the most bang for your buck. Plus, it's closer to Earth, so you save on shipping costs

unless, of course, you have Amazon Prime. Yeah, but I only had about 800 Earths lying around, so I really you have Amazon Prime. Yeah, but I only had about 800 Earths lying around, so I really only needed a Saturn. I mean, less. It was close. All right, now we're really going to get out there. Claude Plymate, our friend at the Big Bear Solar Observatory, high above Los Angeles, he said, well, what if it was masses?

What if it was Earth masses? How many could you get into a sphere of the size of Saturn? What he figured out was that you'd have to take all of them and convert them into a non-rotating black hole. He did the math. It comes out at about 6.6 billion earth masses i i missed the part why we had to turn earth into non-rotating black holes uh just one just one big black hole but just for fun okay yeah but that's not how other people approach this because n Nathan Phillips of the Oak Ridge National Lab, no less,

he said, of course, this depends on the CS, the coefficient of squishing. What if you just turned each individual Earth into a black hole, which normally would not be possible, but he said you could get galactus to compress them, and then you could get about 283 octillion Earth masses to fit within Saturn, all of them individual black holes. Mark Schindler in Honolulu, he came up with the same answer. He said, though, this would void the warranty on the Squishatron. Well, I'm impressed by the creativity, and I think everyone can now see why I asked about volume rather than mass, since, you know, clarified things a little bit. It was a wise move. Let me finish with Dave Fairchild, our poet laureate. The aliens from outer space were planet-squishing fiends.

They threw our Earth into the mix, all casually cleaned, along with 763 more planets on their tray, then dumped them into Saturn for a Sunday lunch souffle. Yummy. I hope that was worth the wait. We're ready to move on, though, now. Moving on, what solar system moon is closest in size to Mercury? Closest in size to Mercury. What moon? Go to planetary.org slash radio contest. You have until the last day of the month,

January 31st at 8 a.m. Pacific time to get us this answer and that terrific prize package already described. We're done. All right, everybody, go out there. Look up in the night sky and think about the sun just breaking through the clouds after a long rainstorm. Thank you, and good night.

And while you're at it, think about Bruce's class, his astronomy class at CSU Dominguez. It's just starting this week. It is indeed. Go to planetary.org slash Betts class, B-E-T-T-S Class, and find out more of how you can watch it. That's Bruce Betts, the Director of Science and Technology for the Planetary Society, coming soon to a classroom near you. That's Introduction to Planetary Science and Astronomy for those playing the home game.

He joins us every week here for What's Up. Planetary Radio is produced by the Planetary Society in Pasadena, California, and is made possible by its volcanic members. Daniel Gunn is our associate producer. Josh Doyle composed our theme, which was arranged and performed by Peter Schlosser. I'm Matt Kaplan. Clear skies.