Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - Planetary Radio at the Humans to Mars Summit

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Join host Mat Kaplan in Washington D.C. for conversations with outstanding presenters at the first in-person Humans to Mars Summit in three years. You’ll hear from Inspiration 4 astronaut Sian Proctor, chief engineer for NASA’s robotic exploration program “Hoppy” Price, and the designer of  award-winning Martian homes. NASA deputy administrator and former space shuttle commander Pam Melroy delivered a brilliant keynote. Then Bruce Betts tells us about the new STEP Grant opportunity from The Planetary Society.  Hear and discover more at https://www.planetary.org/planetary-radio/2022-2022-humans-to-mars-summitSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Come with me to the Humans to Mars Summit, this week on Planetary Radio. Welcome. I'm Matt Kaplan of the Planetary Society with more of the human adventure across our solar system and beyond. Another blockbuster show for you. It was so great to be back in Washington, D.C. for the first time in three years. Explore Mars decided the time was right to bring the Mars community together for a face-to-face gathering. I'll share conversations I had with several stars of the summit, including poet, artist, and now astronaut Cyan Proctor. She served as pilot for the Inspiration4 mission on a SpaceX Crew Dragon spacecraft. And Lori Glaze, the director of NASA's Planetary Science Division.

Later, we'll enjoy our regular visit with Bruce Betts, who has a special opportunity to announce... Brr, it's a chilly winter Martian morning you'll see atop the June 3rd edition of the Downlink. Four images taken by the Mars Odyssey orbiter of beautiful frost down on the surface. Ingenuity has begun a well-earned winter snooze. The cold, reduced sunlight and dust storms will keep the little helicopter grounded for the winter. Also at planetary.org slash downlink, those cute little plants are in soil that has never before seen life. The University of Florida is growing them in actual lunar soil

collected decades ago by the Apollo astronauts. They are oddly heartwarming and might even make you imagine a farm on the moon. You'll hear NASA Deputy Administrator Pam Melroy mention them in a few minutes. There's more for you in the downlink, and it's all free. This year's summit ran for three full days. My job, as in the past, was to host the live video coverage, this time with my friend and colleague Beth Mund of the Casual Space Podcast. Beth and I also moderated several of the summit panels, including the last one about how Mars might be able to help unite humanity.

Every session video is now available for you to enjoy at exploremars.org. So it's the other content I gathered that I'll focus on in this week's show, though I'll begin with remarks by NASA Deputy Administrator Pam Melroy. The former Space Shuttle Commander admirably filled in for NASA Administrator Bill Nelson, who was under the weather. Here's some of what she shared in her keynote address. It's important to remember that it was young people who filled the stands at Rice University on September 12, 1962, when they heard President Kennedy issue a bold declaration that America would choose to go to the moon. I don't know, sometimes I think about it, I wonder what did those in attendance feel or think that day? Did

it sound crazy or did it sound like a daring call to action? How inspiring that must have been to feel that sense of possibility. And I think the other wonderful thing is a sense of national unity. So it's a vision that would go on to inspire and define that generation, the Apollo generation. And I was a part of that. I was very inspired by the first moon landing and that was my decision to want to become an astronaut by watching that landing. So here we are six decades later and you know what? America is still capable of doing incredibly hard things. And we're very excited about our next big bold thing with us and we're going to be bringing the world with us this time and Mars is on the horizon. By using

what we learn on and around the moon under the Artemis program NASA will lead humanity's mission to Mars. We will work to overcome the challenges of landing, living, and leaving the red planet to come home. So when you think about why, I think it's pretty clear. I talked to a lot of people about why we send humans out to explore. First of all, exploration, of course, but for science, for the things that we can learn, to increase our nation's capabilities, and for the benefit of those here on Earth. And finally, to inspire. By that I mean not just inspiring students to study STEM, but inspiring us to think about

what humans are capable of, and to be proud of what we can accomplish together. Science tells us more about life on Earth, and it's teaching us some pretty surprising things about the rest of the solar system as well. And one of the things we think could just about revolutionize everything we understand would be to find life on Mars and be able to compare it to the biology that developed here on Earth. And Perseverance is starting that process right now. Our full Mars sample return mission, which will be extremely challenging in the early 2030s, in a partnership with ESA, will help give us more clarity than ever about whether or not life existed on Mars and potentially where the best places to find it would be.

It's a top priority of the science community, and it's one we're very excited about as we make real progress towards that huge goal. So we often talk about when we're going to go to Mars, but we have to actually start with how. How are we going to do it? So how does NASA sustain human presence and exploration throughout the solar system? How do we harness the power of propulsion necessary for the journey to and from the red planet? How do we cultivate sustainable food production systems on a hostile planet? These are actually just a few of the questions that we've been asking. And we've been taking a deep dive.

We have 50 high-level objectives in NASA's initial Moon to Mars framework strategy. And we released those 50 objectives today publicly. And we will be taking comments on them through the end of the month. Each of the objectives currently falls into four overarching categories. First, transportation and habitation. Obviously you have to be able to get there, get home, and survive. Infrastructure. If we truly want to explore the solar system, especially the further away we go, we have to have infrastructure to support the long journeys that we will be going on.

If we want to maximize our science return on other planets, we have to be able to stay long enough to really reap the benefits. And we need infrastructure to enable a sustained presence. Operations, how do humans work and perform on another planet doing science? We know a lot about microgravity. Right now we know very well how humans can do science efficiently on the International Space Station. This is going to be very different when we're operating on the surface of another planet. And of course, science, one of the pillars of the reasons why we go. We have got to be extremely clear about exactly what we need to achieve on the moon to get to Mars.

NASA's mission directorates, I have tasked them and challenged them to work together in a unified position, a consensus of our top technical leaders at the agency to develop these moon to Mars objectives that are going to act for us as the guideposts over the next two decades as individual programs and projects and technologies advance and come online and work together. You know the administrator has a picture painted by the legendary artist Bob McCall in his office, and it shows an Apollo astronaut wielding a science tool. You know what it is? It's a scoop on the end of a stick, and that was their primary science tool to pick up samples.

Now, those samples are more precious than gold. They have been amazing at helping us understand more about the moon and the formation of the solar system. But you know what? I think we can do better than that now. I think we know how to do science a little differently. I was so thrilled when I saw the recommendation in the recent Decadal survey that suggested maybe we should think about human robotic teaming. And the idea

was maybe we have a fleet of AI-enabled rovers that go around and collect samples in the most interesting places and then pre-emplace them together for our astronauts to bring home. I think about things like, wow, wouldn't it be amazing if we had scientists here on earth wearing a virtual reality headset, looking at what astronauts were looking at and passing the word, that one, I want that rock, bring that one home. And think about just some of the exciting things that we're working on right now. A hopper that will sit on the back of a rover and will hop up to two kilometers down deep into a shadowed crater, take samples, and then hop back. So those are just a few examples of the ways that I think we can do really creative and amazing and efficient science on the moon to prepare us

to go to Mars. So it goes without saying that sending humans to Mars is a tremendous challenge. We have a lot of things that we have to do, and I think the objectives really highlight the roadmap of things that we have to achieve. It's an engineering challenge, it's a technological challenge, it's an agricultural challenge, and it's a human challenge. So these objectives are going to help us methodically tick off what we need to do to be ready to go to Mars. For example, to minimize the radiation of deep space, we need to invest in propulsion systems.

These systems can get us, our astronauts, to Mars faster. To explore further and to learn about the solar system we live in, we need to take advantage of what's already there in the environment. And we need to invest in the technology to land, sustain, and then launch our astronauts off the surface. So last week, we shared some very exciting news from a NASA-funded study in partnership with the University of Florida. And researchers grew plants in nutrient-poor lunar regolith for the first time ever.

for the first time ever. By studying how the plants responded to the lunar samples, the team hopes to pave the way to grow more nutrient-rich plants for the Moon and Mars. And of course our full fleet, we have quite a fleet of rovers, orbiters, and a lander already at Mars, which is teaching us about the geology, the planet's core. Do you see the news about the six-hour-long earthquake, Marsquake? Very cool. Local weather, how spacesuit material may degrade over time. Those are the kinds of experiments we need to do.

So you can see we've been doing a lot as far as it comes to scouting ahead. We're sending our robotic scouts. And now with the objectives, we're going to establish a blueprint for how we're going to get the learning that we need on the ground on the moon that will take us to Mars. Mars has just been forever our horizon goal. But this administration is really serious about charting our path towards those groundbreaking missions, answering the questions

of how we're going to get there and what science we will conduct on the surface. And I also always want to talk about this when I talk about us going to the moon and Mars. How we go is as important as what we do. And so there's one reason I'm so excited that 19 nations have signed the Artemis Accords with others on the way to join that community. These are basic principles, rules of the road, agreements that we've made. Right now, the Outer Space Treaty is all that we have. We can go a little bit further, particularly as we're starting to challenge some of those principles, some of which are in tension with each other.

So we need to get down to it and say, how are we going to do this? Do it in a transparent way, do it in an open way. I'll finish up where I started today with President Kennedy's speech 60 years ago. He quoted British explorer George Mallory, specifically his answer for why he dared climb Mount Everest, and of course the famous response, because it's there. I think our response is a lot more nuanced, but it's no less bold. The red planet is a destination for scientific discovery. It's a driver of technologies that will help humans here on earth, but also enable us to travel and explore. It will strengthen our nation's capabilities and it will inspire a whole generation that is eager to put its own mark and build on what we have done and will achieve together. Humans visiting

Mars in person, I believe, will truly change civilization. So Mars is calling us. Let's answer the call. And together, we'll prove that the dream is no longer deferred. Thank you. Lori Glaze was last heard on Planetary Radio during our coverage of the 2021 Humans to Mars Summit that was entirely virtual. It was great to join her again in person. Lori directs the Planetary Science Division at NASA, part of the Science Mission Directorate. I caught her right after her appearance on the H2M stage.

We talked on camera during a break in the program. It's great to see you again. It's great to see you too, Matt, always. You had all kinds of great information for us, more proof that we are in this golden age of exploration. I'm thinking of the recently released recommendations of the decadal survey, the one on planetary science and astrobiology. Fascinating document. There's no way we could talk about all the recommendations here, but right up at the top of the list, or near the top of the list, maybe number two, are we finally going back to an ice

giant? Are we going to maybe go to Uranus? It's a great question. And yes, we're all really, really excited about the decadal survey that was released on April 19th. It is an enormous document. It has so much great information in there. And we're still in the process of absorbing all of that. We're all very excited about all those recommendations. As you noted, the number two recommendation for the very next big flagship or the big strategic mission is a mission to an ice giant,

and they've recommended a mission to Uranus. So we're in the process of looking at that. We're digesting. So I don't really have a public comment on that yet, but I would encourage you to tune in in a couple of months, probably mid-summer. We expect to start talking a little more publicly about our preliminary response to decadal survey. Let's talk about that number one recommendation, which I'm sure you can talk about. Ken Farley, project scientist for Perseverance, the rover, was on our show Planetary Radio last week, gave us a glowing report on how it's doing as it enters now, so exciting, that river delta. Yeah, I thought that'd be a reaction.

And so it's doing its job. It's collecting those samples. But Perseverance can't help us get them back to Earth other than this step that it's taking. A lot of challenges ahead, and I'm also thinking of the geopolitical situation with Rosalind Franklin, that ExoMars rover, and so on. Is everybody scrambling now to figure out how this is going to work? It's a really great question. Let's just tackle the Mars sample return part first. I am really, really excited that the decadal survey gave us very strong endorsement for Mars sample return. We of course had already kind of kicked that off and initiated it at the start of the decadal survey but they came out in incredibly strong support for making sure we get that sample

return completed as quickly as possible. And so we are charging forward on Mars sample return, as you know. But as you alluded to, there are some complications. Our primary partner on Mars sample return is European Space Agency. And of course, they have now had to delay the Rosalind Franklin launch because of the political situation. It's a challenge. And we certainly want to be a good partner in all ways. We are talking

with ESA and considering whether there are ways, if there's a possibility that there's a way that NASA could assist, but at this time, you know, that's still under consideration. But we saw here yesterday that at least another one of the phases of sample return. I mean, we heard from one of the sponsors about the MAV, that Mars Ascent Vehicle, and how it's going to lift those samples collected by Perseverance up into orbit. And I guess that's moving forward. Oh, it's moving forward. Fantastic. In fact, we've awarded the contract for that. And so the Mars Ascent Vehicle work is really progressing.

It's underway. It's a critical part. It'll be the first time we ever launch from another planet. We've launched off of the moon, of course, but we have never launched from another planet. So this is incredibly challenging to actually deliver that rocket, but not just the rocket, it's also the launch system.

It's not a trivial thing to achieve there. So I'm glad that the technology investment's happening early because that's going to be a tall pole. I'll say it again. Space is hard. Mars is harder. It's always sad to hear about a mission that is coming to an end. You talked about InSight probably will finish its work this year

after doing great work. But the science results, which you said have been outstanding, I'm thinking of this discovery, the sensing of this rather strong earthquake, one that, you know, I'm from Southern California, would be a pretty good shake. Doesn't sound like Mars is quite as dead as some people once thought. Maybe, maybe. Although the science team are still really analyzing that data, which, like you say, how incredible that here we are kind of starting to see perhaps the final months

of InSight and we got blessed with this incredible Mars quake. But the team's still assessing the quake and trying to understand better where it is, how large it really you know pinpoint the the size of it and gather as much information as they can and so i'm not going to step out on a limb and pre-guess what that interpretation is uh but yeah the data are just absolutely incredible we gotta we're running out of time so i'll just to go to one more world while we're here and that's venus a couple of missions and oh gosh I should talk about Psyche as well I've got to put that in and great things happening in the asteroid belt. Oh my gosh it

things are so so busy we have so many wonderful things happening right now I'll just real quick yes excited about the decade of Venus how exciting we've got two Venus missions selected by the US.S. in addition to the mission selected by European Space Agency, the Envision mission. So all three planning to launch near the end of the decade. It's going to be a great time for Venus science in the coming years. Asteroid science, let's talk not just the science missions Lucy and Psyche and OSIRIS-REx bringing samples back. Let's talk DART, Double Asteroid Redirection Test. We've got that demonstration of the kinetic impactor technique,

first ever humanity's attempt at planetary defense, where we're going to demonstrate the ability to deflect an asteroid. That's happening September 26th, so stay tuned. Very exciting. That's going to be quite a show. While we're talking planetary defense and preparing to do that, NEO Surveyor, which, as you know, didn't do as well as some of us might have hoped in the proposed 23 budget, still a high priority? We hope so. NEO Surveyor is very definitely a high priority.

We're all a little concerned with what's in the 23 budget. Things happen. That's where we are. But we are working very closely with the team to make sure that we continue forward and that we have a good path forward to get that mission to launch. If you've looked at the decadal survey, it is listed as the next high priority after DART. It's the first high priority mission recommended in a decadal survey for planetary defense. Excellent. I can't let you go without at least mentioning what's happening at Jupiter.

Juno, still delivering great science. Juno, fantastic. They're doing great. They're now in their extended mission. Really excited about that. They've got funding now, I think, for a couple more years, maybe into 2024 or 2025, to kind of close out that exciting, incredible mission. In their extended mission, they're not only continuing the amazing observations

of Jupiter's giant gas atmosphere, but also having flybys of several of Jupiter's moons. So we're going to get some fantastic new data there as well. Got to stop there, I guess, but exciting times. I mean, I said, golden age, right? Absolutely. It's a great time to be a planetary scientist. Thank you, Lori, very much. Thanks, Matt. A key part of humanity's return to deep space,

finally getting us beyond low Earth orbit again, is the Orion spaceship. Sheila Logan is NASA's Orion Program Executive and Artemis Integration Lead. I talked with her on camera during one of the breaks of the H2M action down on the stage at the George Washington University. Great to hear so much about a lot of the discussion about that big rocket that is going to boost Orion up there toward the moon and eventually toward Mars. I mean, SLS has not flown yet. Fingers crossed in the next couple of months.

But Orion has and proved itself pretty well, didn't it? It did. It did on the EFT-1 test flight a couple of years ago. While SLS hasn't yet flown, it has been tested very well and has held up really well during our wet dress attempts. You know, when you're bringing together big programs and you're starting to integrate the ground systems, you find things that you probably didn't anticipate, but it's primarily things that you might find on the ground side from a ground processing perspective, not so much so something fundamental issues with the rocket. Yeah, that's interesting.

That did strike me about development of the SLS, that a lot of these do seem to be more on the ground support system side. And it's not big things. They're little things, but sometimes until you've actually flowed cryos through a rocket, you don't see some things. And so it's just one of those learning opportunities.

But I want to focus on that spaceship that's going to be up on top of that big rocket. I told you a moment ago, I am a big fan of systems engineering because it makes all of these things possible. I just wonder if it seems to you, I mean, it seems almost miraculous to me, that here is a service module developed, built by the European Space Agency,

has to be mated perfectly obviously with the rest of the Orion system. Or maybe I'm not giving the engineers like you enough credit for making all this work out. Well, I mean, it's certainly a lot of work, a lot of work with the Orion team. And Orion, when I say the Orion team, I mean the ESA side of the house, the NASA side of the house, the broader team, our contractor team. So it's been significant coordination. I mean, the integration effort is truly Herculean, but it's something that we do and it's something that the agency has a vast experience with. So very excited to see that launch very soon, actually. We heard someone say that SLS is specifically designed for deep space.

That's also true of Orion, right? Correct. So Orion is developed to be that vehicle that will take us to lunar service and has the capability to go beyond that. So, again, as the architecture for future missions are defined, we'll see, you know, really what that means. But certainly as we prepare for establishment of a lunar outpost, meaning the gateway, as we prepare to take crew members, whether, you know, that's a direct transfer to a lunar lander or whether it's transferred to the outpost. Really, Orion is our vehicle for that or our spacecraft for that. So, yes, it's a very capable spacecraft.

You had a great answer to the person from the audience who asked you about reusability and that that really has to be considered component by component, mission by mission. But I mean, would you be surprised if a single Orion system capsule didn't make more than, let's say, a couple of trips to the moon? I know that this is something that the program is certainly looking into and they're planning for from a reuse perspective. Now, keep in mind that, you know, the capsule will be landing in saltwater, you know, we're going to landing, you know, in the Pacific off the coast of San Diego. And so we'll see what comes out as what we're going to learn, really, but the plan is at this point to have significant reuse.

But Joe Cassidy had that great comment. He said they took the skin off of the Orion that has been to space, and it looked like it hadn't been out of the room. Yeah, yes, that's true. And so we have, you know, we certainly have high expectations for the crew module, but, and plans are being made assuming significant reuse, but we'll see. Well, you know, I mean, really the answer is we'll see as we assess the vehicles, as we, you know, as the teams inspect upon recovery, and we'll see just really

where we end up from a reuse perspective. Just one more for you. You mentioned the crew module. We saw pictures of some of those lucky men and women who may actually be riding in that crew module off to the moon, maybe some day, a few years beyond that, beyond the moon. What's their reaction to this new vehicle that's going to be carrying them? I think there's general excitement. I mean, there's excitement within the agency. I mean, I get goosebumps when I watch the videos, right? It's such an incredible time to be where we are as a humanity, where we are in terms of human spaceflight, what we're about to embark upon, just pushing the envelope beyond low orbit.

what we're about to embark upon, just pushing the envelope beyond low orbit. And I can't even imagine how exciting it must be for crew members who've trained for years and years and years to actually have this vehicle now that's going to take them beyond the station. It's really an exciting time. So I can only imagine, I'm obviously, you know, projecting here, but it's really exciting time. It's time to get back there into deep space. Yes, absolutely. Thank you very much, Sheila. Thank you. Cyan Proctor became an Explore Mars board member before she learned she'd be going into space. She was famously chosen to join the Inspiration4 crew that spent three days aboard that SpaceX Crew Dragon last September. I sat down with this geologist, teacher, artist, and poet backstage at the Humans to Mars Summit. Cyan, it is great to see you again. You were

way too much in demand for me to get you to a microphone at Yuri's night. Really, I think probably the star of the evening. So it's great to be sitting backstage with you here at Humans to Mars. Welcome. Thank you. Yes, this is a much quieter venue back here, so we have a moment to just sit and chat. You've already been in demand when we were out there with the folks who, the Martians who were attending Humans to Mars here. You're kind of a rock star here too. Yeah, it's always exciting to be in a setting where people are enthusiastic about human space flight because then they actually recognize me versus being out on the street.

I really like the fact that people are getting excited about us going to the moon, Mars, and beyond. I think what people also recognize is that you represent a new class of space travelers. We've seen a few of these people before. Everybody likes to talk about the billionaires, and some people are bothered by them. I'm not, because they also represent the opening up of access to space. But certainly much more so in your case and some of the other folks like you, because I assume you're not yet a billionaire. No, far from being a billionaire.

But when I think about Jared Isaacman, my commander, and what he did for the first all-civilian mission to orbit, you know, he did it right. He could have just taken his friends, and instead he said, you know, this is a first, and I want to set the bar high, and decided to make it a fundraiser for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. So this whole idea of solving for space solves for earth. And then to take and give away those other three seats, one to Haley Arsenault, the first childhood cancer survivor and person with a prosthesis to fly to space. And then Chris giving away the generosity seat by donating the St. Jude and that went to Chris Zambroski. And then me winning the prosperity seat as an artist and a poet. And so that whole idea of creating a Jedi space, just, equitable, diverse, and inclusive.

I love that acronym, of course. Thank you. You know, it's a little Star Wars with a Star Trek mission. You know, Star Trek is all about democratization of space and space exploration, boldly going. And then Star Wars having that Jedi theme of making a difference. Have you been at all surprised by how you've been embraced, how this adventure has been embraced by the general public? Because it's undeniable and it has been very inspiring. Well, I got to say that there were two things that were was really nice. When I won the prosperity seat, because it was a competition and a lot of other people entered it that were our space enthusiasts but when they found out that i

won they rallied behind me and they were very supportive and happy that it was me and and so that's that was really great to see but then also just the you know like you were saying the general public being able to experience what me and my crewmates went through in near real time through the Netflix series. And then how many people have just followed along and felt so inspired and happy about our mission. That was, by the way, the kind of reality TV that will get my eyes tuned in. Yeah, they did a great job of documenting not only our individual stories, but the, you know, the bigger theme of, again, you know, raising money to try to end childhood cancer, but also this idea of how we can get more people to be a part of human spaceflight and why that matters.

I also want to talk about what you are doing with this newfound fame, well-earned. You have a lot of other stuff going on. I mean, I'll just mention one small piece of it, and that was at Yuri's night when there was an award that you presented to our friend Loretta Whitesides. Yeah, so when I came back, I wanted to be able to do good in my own way. And so I started the Dr. Cyan Leo Proctor Foundation for Art and Science, or a little bit shorter, Proctor Foundation for Art and Science. My call sign is Leo, and it's because of Leonardo da Vinci. My crew members consider me a modern-day Renaissance person combining art and poetry. considered me a modern day Renaissance person combining art and poetry.

And so I wanted to take a lot of the stuff that I flew into space, particularly coins and things like that, and be able to give them away to people who are making a difference here on Earth. So I came up with the Jedi Space Award, just, equitable, diverse, and inclusive to give out annually. And I partnered with Yuri's Night, and I was able to give the first one out, this last Yuri's Knight celebration to Loretta Whitesides.

It was her space kind training that put me on the path to Jedi space. And she's just been a wonderful friend with the creation of Yuri's Knight and celebrating the advancement of human space flight. And so I felt it was very appropriate for her to get the first award. It makes me think, because I know Loretta feels this way,

enormous pride in the small part she has had in this accomplishment of yours. And so many other organizations, including this one, Explore Mars, who like to say, yes, Cyan, one of our own has made it this way. I mean, I think, again, that is recognition of, at least among our crowd, and I hope well beyond that, how we aspire to become a space-faring civilization. Yeah, I'm really thankful to Explore Mars. I've been part of the board for a couple of years now. They reached out to me and said that they wanted me to come and help them.

This was before I knew that I was going to go to space and be an astronaut. And I felt so grateful because representation matters and having diversity and inclusion and multiple voices and Explore Mars is all about that. They're all about how can we go to Mars and make that a Jedi space. So I support everything that they're doing here. And the Human to Mars Summit is just another example of the excellence towards that endeavor. Yeah, absolutely. Speaking personally, what has that experience in space, those days in space, days and nights, every 90 minutes, right?

What has it meant for you? What has it meant for your work as an artist and a poet? There's a couple of things that it's meant to me. One of the big ones is that whole idea of always having hope, a hope that your dreams are going to come true. And so even though I was becoming more seasoned in age, I never gave up hope of being able to achieve that dream. And you do that by preparing and persisting.

I did a lot of preparation over the last 30 plus years and persisting through a lot of no's and disappointments. But you keep finding ways to move forward. And then when that opportunity comes, being able to take it. I was really fortunate that as a result of basically COVID and us going into lockdown, I discovered my authentic voice as an artist and a poet. That opened up a new world and opportunity for me. So when Inspiration4 came along for the prosperity seat and I had to put myself out there, I did it as an artist and a poet.

And that was the golden ticket that got me my ride to space. that was the golden ticket that got me my my ride to space and and so even though I've got the geology and I've got the analog astronaut and I've got all these other experiences those all come along with me on the ride but I gotta tell you getting up into space and seeing our planet with this new kind of perspective as an artist and a poet was magical and the best thing that I experienced was earth light and when I talk to people about earth light, it's the light that's being reflected off of our beautiful planet back at you. It's very, it's the same thing as like moonlight. And so you think about how moonlight has captivated us since the early age of us looking up into the sky. And what it means to be bathed in moonlight.

into the sky and what it means to be bathed in moonlight. Well, I can tell you being bathed in Earthlight is far more spectacular and amazing than I could have ever imagined. I love those images of you in that, well, it's the Crew Dragon equivalent of the cupola on the International Space Station, that little dome that you all got to enjoy. You weren't just along for the ride, though, and I'll close out with this. You were the pilot. I'm very envious, well, first of all, of the ride, but also you got to, I assume, play with that wonderful touchscreen control panel,

which I only saw, we only had a dummy that we could touch when I was last at SpaceX. Yeah, you know, it was one thing to win my ticket, but then it was another whole thing to be offered the mission pilot seat. A real dream come true, because as a kid, I wanted to be a pilot and an astronaut. So check the both of those boxes. And the Dragon capsule is autonomous. But what the pilot's role is, is two things. One, I back up my commander, Jared Isaacman, who's also a pilot, and help give him situational awareness as to what the Dragon Capsule is doing. Over the six months of training, I became more like a systems engineer

where I understood how all the systems interact and what we could and could not do as a crew. You ready to go back and maybe go farther? I would love to go back. I'd love to be a moonwalkerer or even a Mars walker one day. But you know, I'm very grateful that I got my chance to go. So if I never go back up again, I'll be okay. But I sure would love to go again. Thank you, Cyan. You obviously are going to stay very busy down here on Earth with the rest of us. Thanks for all you're doing and best of continued success. Thank you so much.

And, you know, there's no place better than planet Earth. So lots to explore and see here. Cyan would later be presented with the Explore Mars Pioneer Award. Inspiration4 is just one of the more prominent signs that space is becoming much more democratic and much more of a place for commerce. Karina Dries is president of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation. I invited her to join me for another stand-up interview during an H2M break. Karina, I'm sorry that I never connected with you when you were still out in the Mojave. I

love going out to the Air and Space Port. Had a lot of fun there. It's one of the birthplaces, really, of commercial space, isn't it? Absolutely, yeah. And it really is a special place. So not only is it home to Scale Composites, which completed the XPRIZE flight in 2004, and really inspired this new wave of development in humans in space. It was home to Virgin Galactic for a number of years as they got their program up and running.

The Spaceship Company, which was their sister company, to build and develop the spaceship fleet. Stratolaunch as well. Virgin Orbit currently does their launches out of Mojave. And then Massen, of course, has been a longtime resident of Mojave in the space program. Planetary Society, we've got a pretty close relationship with Masten. I was out there to watch one of their rockets do a little hop and try some technology from Honeybee Robotics, and I was on the tarmac for that XPRIZE-winning flight.

Oh, that's excellent. I unfortunately missed it. I didn't get involved in Mojave until around 2005, slowly, and then did an internship out there. But it was very inspirational. That's what inspired me to get into the industry and especially be in Mojave. And I think that flight inspired so many people, certainly in my generation. And it was a completely different perspective. You know, we weren't looking forward to a NASA program. We were thinking about it more from a business perspective, which made it much more exciting, I think, and much more realistic for folks with my background. Commercial space has evolved, apparently, as your career has as well. I think it's only come up once or twice in the past.

Alan Stern has been a regular guest on our show for many years. And wasn't he one of the founders or early supporters of CSF? Absolutely. He was definitely one of the early supporters. And not only that, but he was instrumental in getting some very key programs stood up that CSF then adopted or became very much involved with. The Suborbital Research Group, for example. And he does a conference, the Next Generation Suborbital Research Conference as well in Colorado. So he's been very involved in commercial space and CSF specifically. Interesting, because it's a great example of a scientist who crosses over into the commercial space entrepreneurial area. I'm really wondering, as I look at the membership,

it's almost like a club for what we used to call new space. Right. It kind of is. Yeah, and it really has evolved into something that's so much more than just launch and reentry companies. And that was sort of the whole motivation around CSF. And it started out as the Personal Spaceflight Federation, if you remember, 15 years ago. And it's really evolved now to accommodate anybody and everybody that's operating in space from a commercial perspective. So there is a key difference between what a lot of our companies are incentivized by

and what a lot of the more traditional NASA-type programs might have been incentivized by in the past. Like most trade associations, you've brought together people who are natural competitors, companies that are natural competitors. What is the mission? Why do they see this as valuable? Oh, that's a great question. And, you know, they are very competitive at times when it comes to operating their businesses. For the most part, the folks that are engaged with CSF activities are the policy and regulatory professionals. And those folks tend to see eye to eye pretty much on just about anything that comes CSF's way. And the reason is, you know, from a policy perspective, favorable policy benefits an entire industry.

And one of the core principles of CSF is promoting free and open competition. All of our members know that. If we take a position on something, it's because we're promoting free and open competition for everybody. So we're not there to advocate for any one organization's interest. We're there to really promote an entire industry. And because of those principles, our members really get behind CSF's mission because everyone shares that mission of being successful in space and specifically for America's space program to be successful.

We talk a lot, particularly on the space policy edition of our show, the monthly policy program we do with my colleague Casey Dreyer, about this new model. As opposed to the classic model that I know you're familiar with, the COS Plus, which is still being used for quite a few projects, it looks like your members are big believers in this new model. Absolutely, yeah. The firm fixed price model is really going to continue

benefiting the American space program as a whole because that's what helps companies innovate and that's what helps get the best technologies to market. If the companies have some skin in the game, then they have a lot of additional incentives to make sure they're putting the best technologies forward because they want to continue developing those technologies. They're taking the risk as opposed to the government taking the risk, and that's a key differentiator between what we consider commercial space and what we consider traditional space or the traditional contracting methods. Lori Garver, you know Lori, I think her book comes out tomorrow,

and it's about this new era and how she and others like her fought to bring this in. And there was a lot of resistance to it, as you know, in part by the traditional aerospace companies. I just wonder if you have any thoughts about what it took to get this in place. I think it was a pretty significant effort by a lot of folks at one time. So it was a little bit of a mind shift, mentality shift in the administration at the time. Meanwhile, there were some key companies that saw a better way of doing things, and SpaceX being one of them at the time back in the early 2000s, when not a lot was going on in terms of disruption in the industry.

The combination of those things, as well as a lot of the new wave of engineers that were graduating, the shuttle program was about to retire. We needed as a country, I think, some inspiration in getting some new technologies out there and being able to, for those talented engineers, to work on new programs that didn't exist yet. So I think there was a lot of inspiration in addition to this kind of the shift in mentality at the administration and within NASA. What about the balance between the kinds of companies that I think for the most part, if not entirely, are your members and those major legacy aerospace companies

that are well represented here today at the Humans to Mars Summit. I mean, for example, could a Northrop Grumman or a Boeing, if they said, we want to join the CSF, would that be appropriate? Yeah, I mean, it really kind of depends. I would say those two core principles are really CSF's guiding light. those two core principles are really CSF's guiding light. So it's both promoting commercial aspects of space and promoting free and open competition. And as long as our members really understand those two core principles, we're pretty open with various types of members. So it really comes down to that. And there's something else I just want to mention. I think there's room for all of these companies to be successful in space, not just the CSF companies. I think there's room for a

lot of success because of how competitive things are becoming with other countries. It's not just about companies in the U.S. that are competing with each other. It's about the American space program that's competing with other programs around the world. And I do think there's room for it. And because of that, there's potential for traditional models to work for very specific types of programs or long term research and development type of programs. So there's definitely room for a lot of companies to be successful in this industry. A lot of your members are among the most successful in this new commercial sector, I would say. I just yesterday read a piece about, boy, the big

shakeout is coming because of these, you know, I'll avoid the word recession and say economic downturn that we in the world, the rest of the world may be facing. It's always a challenge, especially for younger companies that are not as well established. Is this something that's a topic of discussion? One of the things I found really interesting being in Mojave during the pandemic, not only did those companies have contracts to fulfill and obligations to fulfill and timelines to fulfill, they still had boards with a lot of pressure to meet their schedules, but how those companies were not just in Mojave, but across the industry were able to help the nation during a,

during a crisis because they had the capability, they had the talent and the capability in house to manufacture hoods, to manufacture ventilators, to manufacture personal protective equipment. to manufacture ventilators, to manufacture personal protective equipment. And they were very nimble to be able to do that and, you know, not have to shut down their business, but be able to simultaneously run these two parallel tracks. Space, interestingly, over the past two years has been one of the industries that's not been affected nearly as greatly as many other industries. And it's possible that going forward, when we think about economic consequences across the board amongst the various industries, that space will continue being one of those industries that is relatively stable and sustainable.

Let's hope. And let's look beyond any downturn. And in fact, let's hope it doesn't happen at all. But there was a great question from your moderator, Jeff Faust, during the session about whether your members are prepared to support what is now happening at the moon. I'm thinking of Eclipse program, lunar payloads, and taking it a lot farther out. Could you imagine a commercial Mars payload program? I could. And, you know, one of the things I said early on in my talk is when I started getting into this industry 15 years ago, and I would go to events where we talked about humans to Mars, and it just seemed crazy. Like nobody really thought that it was realistic.

And here we are actually talking about it. Not only talking about it, but talking about the programs that are going to bring us there. not only talking about it, but talking about the programs that are going to bring us there. There's so much, I think, that's applicable in the HLS program, a programming model that will apply to Mars in the future as well. But it really is going to take that entire ecosystem. And I think NASA recognizes how important that is. It's not just about having launches or reentry vehicles. It's an entire ecosystem that's going to be able to make us

sustainable as an interplanetary species. Three years ago, the last time H2M happened in person, face-to-face, was during our last session, which is always fun, where people were talking about boots on Mars. And I said, that's great. I want boots on Mars, but I want a shoe store on Mars, too. So there's commercial development. Right, exactly. Yeah, it's not just about thinking about the habitat. It's how do people actually thrive and flourish in a relatively desolate place like that. It's good to know that your organization and your members are among those who are thinking about this kind of thing. Thank you, Karina. Yeah, thank you so much. I was happy to be here today. More of the Humans to Mars Summit is half a minute away.

It includes the creator of an audacious plan to get us to Mars by 2033 using almost entirely existing technology. Also, the beautiful homes we may live in once we get there and our weekly visit with Bruce Betts. Hi, it's Bruce. Will you help defend Earth? The Planetary Society is advancing the global endeavor to protect our world from an asteroid impact. It's the one large-scale natural disaster we can prevent, but we're not ready yet. Please, become a planetary defender and power our crucial work.

You can double your support for planetary defense when you make a gift today. When you do, a generous member of the Society will match your gift up to a total of $15,000. It's a great opportunity to make a difference. Visit planetary.org slash defend earth. Thanks. Is the date of humanity's arrival at Mars slipping farther into the future? It seems so, but there are still those who think we can reach the red planet by the early to mid-2030s. Humphrey Price is one of these optimists. Hoppe, as most people

know him, is NASA's chief engineer for robotic exploration. He has turned his optimism into a practical plan. Hoppe, come on down. Sounds like a game show. How are you? It's been a while. Yeah, I know. It's always good to chat with you, Matt. It's great to be, you know, another one of these Explore Mars H2M summits. I always enjoy them. I'm also looking forward to the Artemis 1 launch. See, I have my SLS pen here. I love it. I'm envious. I'm ready, yeah. I have my Planetary Society P designed by the boss, Bill Nye, but I'll trade you. No, no, actually, I won't. You're still chief engineer, right, for NASA's Mars?

For NASA's robotic Mars exploration program, right. And you're staying busy with other stuff as well. I mean, it was addressed during a session today. It came up. But I want to talk to you about something that you proposed, which is, I was doing some research, just stirred up some interest, excitement. And that's this 2033 Mars proposal that you put forward. Tell us about it. Well, it's not really a proposal. It was a study that we did just to see if it's feasible or not. But, you know, I'm always

inspired when Congressman Perlmutter holds up his sticker. You know, it says 2033. Oh, yes, yeah. 2033. So, you know, we did a study to see is that really feasible at this point in this study. We concluded that, yes, it is feasible to do a short stay mission in 2033. And, of course, the advantage is that in 2033, you can do a mission that's 570 days in total duration, or just 1.6 years, which is not really a much longer time than we already have experience having people in space. So I think it would be great if we could take advantage of that opportunity. It only occurs once every 15 years that you can do a mission that short. In spite of the fact that it relies on mostly existing hardware, it's still

audacious. And it's an orbital mission, right? No landing for this one, which is something that's been talked about for, God, decades, I would think. Right. It's like doing Apollo 8. You know, for Apollo, there was a progression of missions. First, there was Apollo 7 in Earth orbit, you know, testing out the vehicle. And I think for the habitat that we used to go to Mars, we would want to test that out at the lunar gateway. And then there was an orbital mission, Apollo 8. And then hopefully those systems could be utilized then when we add a lander to go onto the Apollo 11 stage and actually do a sortie mission to land on the surface of Mars, maybe,

you know, four years after we do the orbital mission. I'm wondering, because I know there are some people who look at this more as an Apollo 10, although without the landing system, and wondering why would we want to go all this way to Mars, you've talked about because it'd be great practice, but all the way to Mars and to get so tantalizingly close as they did on Apollo 10. Right. Well, I think the key thing is having a lander. And so having a lander to actually be able to meet the crew in orbit, land them on Mars, and then come back up to the orbiter to come back to Earth, I don't see that that could be feasible by 2033.

There's just a lot of time and money that would have to be invested in that. I think it could be ready by the mid to late 2030s, but I think 2033 is this opportunity to do the Apollo 8 step and do an orbital mission. You know, if we were to be so bold, it would definitely be a bold step to take. I'll say. And as I said, mostly conventional existing hardware, Falcon heavies, a lot of them, three SLSs, Space Launch Systems. Yes, that's right.

Yeah, so chemical rockets, assembly in space, and first human mission to Venus. Right, because the 2033 opportunity, in order to get back to the Earth, you know, in 570 days, you do a Venus flyby gravity assist. So if we did this mission, it would be the first crew to go to Mars and Venus. Quite a historical first.

A twofer. That's right. Exactly. I don't want anybody to get the idea, since the panel you were on today was about nuclear, not versus, but nuclear and chemical propellant. You're a nuclear engineer. So I imagine you don't have anything against nuclear propulsion that's now back in development. Yeah, not at all. I'm really excited about developing these nuclear propulsion systems.

But as we saw in the National Academy's report on that, it's probably not going to be ready for humans to use for a while. But I absolutely think we should continue that development. we noted in the panel is that I think it's absolutely essential to have nuclear surface power for the moon and also for Mars to provide reliable power and a lot of power for crews that would be living for a long time on the surface of those worlds. Got to make that oxygen to breathe and make more fuel, right? Although I think yours doesn't require that propellant be brought for the return. Do I have that right? Yes. So the concept that I have studied, you take all of your propellant be brought for the return? Do I have that right? Yes, so the concept that I have studied, you take all of your propellant with you, and it's all space-storable propellant,

so there's no cryogenics. You don't have to keep anything cold, and you have everything you need to come back, and for the lander that we've studied, it's fully-fueled MAV, so you're able to do abort at any time. Even during descent, you could abort to orbit, or after you land, or if you didn't land next to the place where you really wanted to do abort at any time, even during descent. You could abort to orbit or after you land.

Or if you didn't land next to the place where you really wanted to land to, you can still abort to orbit and come back up. Could you hop over to where you want to be? You know, probably don't have enough propellant for that, yeah. Just a shot in the dark there. One more thing to talk about, again, came up today. And it's this transition from talking about EDL entry descent and landing to EDL a adding ascent sounds like we're on track for the return of those precious samples the perseverance is crawling around Jezero crater picking

up right now yeah we're very excited about that about the the sample return lander and the Mars ascent vehicle and the European Earth return orbiter and then the Earth entry vehicle to, there's a lot of steps involved in bringing those samples back. It's a pretty complex problem, but things are on track. The plans are not completely finalized yet. It's still being studied, but people are on board. They've signed up to be on board and it's moving out in a very serious way. It's in NASA's budget, so we're off and running for Mars sample return. Exciting times, especially for Mars exploration.

Thank you, Hoppy. Always a pleasure. And thanks for being part of Humans to Mars again. Oh, great. My pleasure. Always good to be here with you. Hoppy Price, NASA's chief engineer for Mars exploration programs, but based at JPL for many, many years. Well, it's based at JPL, but in the program office, we're representing all of NASA, so I wear my NASA hat. I have my NASA pin on, see? NASA, not JPL, NASA.

Wearing it proudly. Living on the Moon and Mars presents yet another tremendous challenge. Melody Yashar has thought a lot about how we'll design and build our homes on other worlds. She is the director of building design and performance for Icon, a pioneer in the use of robots to print structures. Melody had already built a notable reputation as an architect and designer before she reached Icon. So I've been a fan of your work, your team's work, for long, long before this day, and you got to feature some of that work here, and it's just a shame that we can't illustrate

this conversation with some of that work, because you design, well, habitats, homes for people living off the surface of Earth, but also for Earth, which I'll come back to. The thing is that your homes are beautiful, your habitats, Ice House, X House. So many of these lunar and Martian habitats that we see are, you would think from by necessity, piles of dirt or regolith because they need the radiation protection, which your team has taken into account. But you've come up with these beautiful homes that look like they would actually be places someone would want to live. And that was obviously a goal. Yes, that's right. We took a human-centric approach and designed what we felt, in all of these projects, frankly, what we felt would be the optimal experience for living on the surface

of Mars for a one-year mission. In this case, most of our projects are focusing on a one-year mission. Most of the teams I've collaborated with in the past, including Space Exploration Architecture, which was a company I co-founded, and now more recently with ICON, as well as the Bjarke Ingels Group, who's a collaborating architect with ICON at the moment, we like to approach the architectural design in terms of what values we can provide from a human factors perspective first, and then synthesize those value adds with other traditional engineering constraints, like how do we mitigate against temperature differentials, or how do we create a pressurized environment, structurally speaking,

and what are the materials we're going to use to actually create a functional habitat and pressurized enclosure. So it's this combination of both human-centric design thinking, sort of methodologies when it comes to thinking about human needs and human wants combined with synthesizing engineering constraints. And when you talk about materials that these habitats are made of, I think you're also talking about ISRU, Institute Resource Utilization. Is that key to a lot of this? Yes, exactly. So for additive manufacturing and 3D printing to become a successful technology for building habitats on the moon and Mars, we need to leverage the local and indigenous materials on the surface of the planet and leverage ISRU to actually create construction feedstock and

materials to create these radiation shields, unpressurized structures, and then eventually pressurized habitats. Ice, water ice, as a building material, which turns out to be pretty effective for doing the things you need a habitat to do, right? Yes. So the initial proposal that the team Search Plus Clouds AO introduced to the NASA Centennial Challenge for a 3D printed habitat on Mars was a proposal for an ice habitat, 3D printed out of water ice. What we introduced for that structure was a pressurized membrane that would then be 3D printed, well, 3D printed ice on the inside of that pressurized membrane. Water is a superior radiation shield over materials like aluminum and regolith, so that was a clear value add from our perspective to shield and protect the astronauts

against galactic cosmic rays and solar particle events. This was the real benefit that we introduced in introducing water ice as a construction material. Maybe just a word also about the Mars X-House. Both of these, basically winners of competitions, and maybe you could go on to talking about the NASA 3D printed habitat competition that you won with both of these. Yes. In 2015, NASA Centennial Challenges put out a public solicitation for the general public to introduce concepts for 3D printed

Mars habitats. They gave some general requirements and parameters for the programs and areas that would be included within the habitat and some general parameters for materials and why those materials should be considered. In the case of Mars Ice House, ice was never really considered as a construction material, so that was a new and innovative idea that I don't think anybody really expected. Despite that, we were fortunate to win first prize in the 2015 Phase 1 Challenge, and then when the competition was reinstated with different material requirements,

we were fortunate enough to win first prize for Mars X-House, which was a sulfur-based regolith habitat proposal. And I wish we could show the interiors because they are as beautiful as the exteriors. But again, we will just tell people, where can people see these designs? Sure. You can take a look at my website, melodyashore.com. Base Exploration Architecture, Clouds AO, as well as Bjarke Ingels are some of the groups that I've collaborated with over the last few years. And if you'd like to have more information about ICON, our website is iconbuild.com. What is Mars Dune Alpha?

So Mars Dune Alpha is our design for the CHIPIA analog. CHIPIA stands for the Crew Health and Performance Exploration Analog. This is... Well done. It's a long name, yes. Mars Dune Alpha kind of rolls off the tongue, right? Like it's a little bit easier to say. So it is a 1,700-square-foot analog habitat that we built in collaboration with NASA at the Johnson Space

Center. It is going to house four volunteer crew members simulating a mission to Mars over the course of one year. What we did is we deployed our gantry style construction printer in the building in building 220 at Johnson Space Center and basically 3D printed the habitat, and it should be in operation, I believe, in October. For people to live in under as close to Mars analog conditions as we can achieve here on Earth, right? As close as we can design them to be, yes, that's right. And people should see the video that you showed in the session a few minutes ago with this amazing device going back and forth and building this structure, which is now complete. Yes. If you take a look again at iconbuild.com, we have lots of videos showing how the gantry operates,

what it looks like when it was deployed in Building 220 at Johnson Space Center, and you can learn much more about the project there. So we're talking about the Moon and Mars, So we're talking about the moon and Mars, but I know that you are also very concerned about how people live their living spaces here on Earth, perhaps in particular for people who live in less advantaged areas. And how is this work spilling over into helping people on Earth? One of the key advantages of additive manufacturing and 3D printing as a construction technology is that we really believe that by scaling it up, we're going to introduce new efficiencies in building construction that you cannot have in traditional means and methods

like with wood frame construction or using concrete masonry units. So we're able to design and also to build faster and more affordably for those who need it. It's really our mission at Icon to design accessible, dignified, and resilient housing solutions for the people in the areas that need it most. Terrific work. Thank you so much, Melody. And yeah, keep it up. And it's going to be fascinating to see people move into that home at the Johnson Space Center and see how they do. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Please forgive a bit of self-indulgence before I close our coverage of the 2022 Humans to Mars Summit. Here's Explore

Mars President Janet Ivey. To our dear friend Matt Kaplan, who has been taking us to outer reaches of the solar system and beyond by interviewing scientists, engineers, mission leaders, astronauts, advocates, and writers who provide their unique and exciting perspective on the exploration of our universe via planetary radio for the last 19 and a half years. Yes, give a big round of applause! half years. Yes, give a big round of applause. This afternoon, we want to honor Matt for being chief advocate and ardent supporter of the Human to Mars Summit now. And we can't count how many years because none of us apparently know when he just started being a Martian with all of us. So we're going to say at least the last seven or so. It might be more, but

it's always perfect, and we are so grateful. So whether live or in person, online, hosting our webinars, Matt has been there, microphone at the ready, with a beautifully astute curiosity, delivering the best content and all with joie de vivre. For all that you have done to bring Mars and the Red Planet ever closer with your impeccable wit and wisdom, it is my honor and privilege to present you, Matt Kaplan, with the Explore Mars Horizon Award for Services Above and Beyond. Ah!

It's like an Academy Award. Thank you, folks. I'm not speechless because I never am. If you ask my wife, who's up in the back, she'll tell you I've been a Martian my whole life. So thank you. It has been, I always tell these two, that working at this summit every year is one of the highlights for my year every year. And this year has been the same. It has been great to join all of you other, you, you fellow Martians. Thank you so much. And I am, I'm truly honored.

Oh, we are delighted that you are one with us. So thank you so much. Thank you, Matt. Wonderful. Thanks, Matt. And by the way, Matt, we will ship that to you because I know you're going to England right after. So don't worry about that.

You don't have to put it in your check-in luggage. And that was Explore Mars CEO and founder Chris Carberry, closing out our coverage of the 2022 Humans to Mars Summit. I'm so grateful to Chris and everyone at Explore Mars, not just for the award, but for allowing me to be part of their spectacular gathering each year. Don't forget that you can watch the entire program at exploremars.org. It is time for What's Up on Planetary Radio. Sitting virtually across from me is the chief scientist of the Planetary Society, Bruce Betts. Welcome back. Hi, Matt.

We are going to get to all the usual stuff, but I'm hoping that up front, you can tell us about the very significant new opportunity that as we speak has just opened up a couple of days ago. Yes, indeed. We have released a new request for proposals from the Planetary Society for our STEP grants program, Science and Technology Empowered by the Public. And we had our first round decided a few months ago. I have a couple of great new projects and we're looking for new science and technology projects. And you can find all the information online at planetary.org slash step grants, one word, step grants. The deadline for the preliminary proposals, which are required, is August 17th. How many PhDs do I have to have to be able to apply for this?

You don't require any to apply, but you do require at least three to actually have a chance of winning. That is not true. That is not true at all. There are students that work under people with PhDs who are on the winning proposals. No, it's not a requirement. Stop this. Stop this.

You are not eligible, though. Everyone else is. It's internationally open. It's open to everyone. But Matt Kaplan, I made sure to add that this year. No, that's not true. You work for the Planetary Society, so you're not eligible. What's a shame is that I have a surefire proposal for warp drive,

but, yeah, the world will just have to wait. You'll have to find some other sucker. I mean, someone else to fund that. And just briefly, the two that were funded are going well, you say? Yes, they're going well. And you had a wonderful show with them when we selected them. So we've got a UCLA project developing a citizen science project to help them remove noise from radio astronomy signals where they're trying to find if there are any signals from ET in there.

So it's SETI related. And then the other is in Serbia at the University of Belgrade and a group figuring out a new way to characterize near-Earth asteroids, which we're always part of our planetary defense program interested in. Yeah, which we have a major campaign going on right now. People may have heard your voice talking about that just a few minutes ago on this very episode. Did I sound good? I don't know. You haven't recorded it yet. Oh!

And right now there are no mistakes. Broke that fourth wall right down. What's up in the night sky? Oh, such silliness. Not in the night sky. Night sky is fun. Big fun. We've got a full moon on June 14th, which I mentioned because it is a so-called super moon.

on June 14th, which I mentioned because it is a so-called super moon, which I think is a little bit of an exaggeration, but I haven't figured out, you know, mediocre moon doesn't inspire people. So it's a full moon that occurs near the closest point in the moon's elliptical orbit. So the moon appears a little bit larger and a little bit brighter than average. That's on the 14th. We've got in the pre-dawn sky, we got planets still partying all lined up. We've got in the pre-dawn sky, we've got planets still partying, all lined up. We've got even Mercury's joining the party, if you can get a view low to the east in the pre-dawn. From the horizon up, we've got Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, all in a line because we orbit in roughly the same plane. But wait, don't worry yet, Matt. On June 17th, the moon will join the line,

starting with passing Saturn high up, and then by 11 days later, on the 28th, it will have moved down to Mercury, snuggling up with them along the way. On to this week in space history. It was 2003. It's another couple of things to make you feel time passes quickly. 2003, the Spirit rover was launched. That didn't work. How about 2010,

12 years ago, Hayabusa 1, the first Hayabusa, returned asteroid samples to the Earth for the first time. That can't be true. There we go. Crazy. 2003, I was just speechless because we were all together at PlanetFest for the landing of Spirit, the first of those twins to arrive. That was very, very exciting. It was very exciting, and it was really nice because it worked. They keep having things work.

It's very cool. All right. really nice because it worked. They keep having things work. It's very cool. All right, we move on to random space fact. Yeah, it is. No worries. All right, we're going to the exotic planet Earth. Earth's north magnetic pole, the location where the magnetic field,

where your compasses point towards. It moves. It's been moving a lot faster in the last couple decades than before, whereas in the 19th century and beginning of most of the 20th, it was going anywhere from not moving, zero up to 15 kilometers per year. It was hanging out in Canada long term, very comfortable in northern Canada. out in Canada long term, very comfortable in northern Canada. But then it started clipping about 20 years, so years ago, up to 50 to 60 kilometers per year. It's been jamming north, headed off towards Siberia. And it actually got closer to the true North Pole for a while, made it to 390 kilometers within the geographic pole. Now it's headed south from the pole and headed to Siberia.

And at least recent papers think there are a couple magnetic blobs of material fighting between Canada and under Canada and under Siberia. I think they should be named Matt and Bruce. I claim Canada. That whole idea of two blobs far under the surface of the Earth. We do have a strange planet. We do have a very weird place. I mean, it's infested.

First of all, the surface is just infested. It's crazy. I mean, that's why it's mostly harmless. Shall we move on to the trivia contest? Yeah, it's time. So I asked you to name all the U.S. planetary spacecraft, defining it as beyond Earth orbit and including the moon. All of them launched in the 1980s. How did you do, Matt?

Not a huge response this time. I'm going to let Gene Lewin in Washington provide the poetic response to this. To circumnavigate the globe, Magellan sailed a westward path. Galileo focused eyes aloft and faced the Inquisition's wrath. Both were controversial, at least during their time, pushing boundaries, countering laws, some of faith, some of the brine. They were honored by the NASA team during the 1980s frame, Ships to Venus, the other Jupiter, bearing each explorer's name. Indeed, Galileo and Magellan. And a great poem. Thank you, Gene. And since we now know the answer, well, here's the winner, according to Random.org. And he's a first-time winner, as far as I could tell.

Edwin King in the United Kingdom, where I was just like a week and a half ago, having a delightful time. He said, yep, Magellan and Galileo, the much-delayed Ulysses, didn't make the cut. But, of course, that was basically a solar observer, right? Yes, but I would have counted, particularly because it flew by Jupiter to get over the poles of the sun, oddly enough. So the striking thing here is there were only two U.S. planetary missions launched, and both were launched in 1989. That's, in fact, part of why the Planetary Society was started, because of that dismal look at the 80s, and that was before Challenger disaster and delays, further delays because of that. We are doing some really cool stuff now in much larger quantities, and it's exciting,ially thanks to you, members of the Planetary Society.

Thank you. I'm glad you brought that up. Of course, we weren't the only ones who were pushing things out toward the planets. That's true. During that period, yeah. Dave Fairchild in Kansas, our poet laureate. The USSR was out launching the US by nearly a score. Their missions to planets were plenty, the 80s at least eight or more. But we finally got on the wagon Magellan in May 89 and shoehorned the last in October to bring Galileo online. Yeah, the Soviets were far more active during that decade than we were, but we've made up for it since then. Yeah, and I thought of asking that, but then people, it would have been a really long answer. I'm going to go back to Edwin King, our winner, because he is, he's in the UK.

He said, I hope Matt enjoyed the UK. Sorry about the weather. Actually, Edwin, we were incredibly lucky. We hardly had any rain at all, even when we were walking across the countryside in the Cotswolds. So we did extremely well. Thank you for that, by the way. when we were walking across the countryside in the Cotswolds. So we did extremely well. Thank you for that, by the way.

Edwin, we're going to send you a copy of Packing for Mars. Actually, the publisher is going to send you Packing for Mars for Kids by Mary Roach. So congratulations. Christopher Mills said, you could maybe count the Klingon ship renamed the Bounty. It launched from San Francisco after saving the whales in Star Trek IV. So it was a U.S. launch. So he is correct there. Huh.

Wait a second. I said U.S. planetary spacecraft, not U.S. launch. Good point. Finally, this, not really contest related, although she did mention this as part of her contest entry. Laura Dodd, longtime listener in California, who said, congratulations, Matt, for the Mars Horizon Award, which is that award that I got from Explore Mars while I was at the Humans to Mars conference or summit. Congratulations. Thank you. She said, did you also get a prize for best necktie?

I said, no, no, I did not, Laura, but I really should have, shouldn't I? I wore a different Mars tie each of the three days of H2M. And maybe that's why I got the Mars Horizon Prize, actually. That explains some things. You know, I could make you something. We can do a certificate. I've got crayons right next to me. Sure. Which is odd. Don't hurt yourself with those. And don't run with the scissors either. There they are.

64. I love that set. I'm creating something for one of our programs and doing tests with crayons. All right, let's just move on. It's not for the step grants, by the way. What have you got for us? What unofficial but common name for a type of feature on Venus sounds like it would be delicious for breakfast?

Wow. Go to planetary.org slash radio contest. Yeah, it's nothing called french toast that i know of on venus oh nice now i need a new one you got until the 15th that'd be june 15th at 8 a.m pacific time to get us the answer for this one and uh we'll go back uh one more time to handing out tending to somebody, a rubber asteroid, a Planetary Society kick asteroid, rubber asteroid. Now we're done.

All right, everybody, go out there, look up at the night sky, and think about what is your favorite shape of pasta? I'm sure Matt's got one. Thank you, and good night. Whoa, a question about pasta and you're doing artwork? You really are a Renaissance man. He's Bruce Betts, the chief scientist of the Planetary Society, who joins us every week here for What's Up. I didn't say artwork. I said I was using crayons.

Planetary Radio is produced by the Planetary Society in Pasadena, California, and is made possible by its members, some of whom love angel hair pasta best. Your seat at the table awaits at planetary.org slash join. Marco Verda and Ray Paletta are our associate producers. Josh Doyle composed our theme, which is arranged and performed by Peter Schlosser. Ad Astra.